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himbo-buckley · 4 years

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The Big Buddie for Dummies Guide

Hello party people and welcome to whatever this was supposed to be!

Quite a while ago I got an ask by someone about doing a guide on all the canon indicators for Buddie to explain the ship to non-shippers and about 5 anxiety attacks and four weeks later, I finally did it!

So read, enjoy, reblog, validate, disagree!

Also here are some notes before we get started:

Buddie has been around a while now and there are some incredibly people writing about them and doing meta posts for them, some of which I asked for their opinion which I will link at the end and some of which I am quoting in a way / have been inspired by (Also feel free to send me all and every post related and I will link it in the text as I will try to do the same)

This Guide is organised by the following themes we find in the show with Buddie: trust - coparenting - connection and love life - subtext

I’m not gonna lie, this is incomplete af because tbh? There is so much stuff that can be interpreted as evidence for Buddie but this is too long already so I left some stuff out, I hope ya’ll don’t mind … (also the reblog option exists for reason, just add on what I missed, I’m not gonna bite!)

I’m gonna assume the person who reads this has a general understanding of the show and its scenes because I cannot explain every scene down to it’s very detail (I mean I can but that’s another 20000 words worth of meta and not sure anyone wants to read that … again) but I will try and link fitting gifsets (again, send them my way if you feel I should include sth.)

I should also add a warning for the fact that I, personally, think I am hilarious but others might not but fellas, Idc! (Also I cuss, some people don’t like that?)

So let’s get this show on the road then, shall we? I call this meta : „We might end up real close.“

(alternate title: „Buddie stans ship hard but canon ships harder“ or „This is Timbo’s story (of becoming more famous than Joss Whedon) and I’m just it’s vessel“)

Trust

We’re gonna start this off strong (I mean all of them are strong themes) by talking about the biggest theme with Buddie which is trust. It goes all the way back to 2.01 and the gym scene and Buck basically telling Eddie he doesn’t trust him (complaining about Eddie’s comfort level, anyone?) and that he needs to earn that - which rude but also I get it.

In fact there are two main themes which I combined into Trust which begin in 2.01:

„You’re my problem“ and „You can have my back any day“ both of which sort of sum up Buddie, because from the get go Buck decides hey, this guy is my problem and then he proceeds to make everything about Eddie his business. Eddie meanwhile tells Buck he’d love to have him watching his back - meaning Eddie trusts him and wants Buck to be his partner.

(Side note: isn’t it beautiful how that is a complete reverse of their usual attitudes? Usually Buck trusts way to easy and Eddie never does but with each other it’s the opposite!)

Let’s look at the episodes in order, okay?

2.01: „I think I’ve seen this happen in porn before“

- „You’re my problem“: I’m gonna talk about the gym scene later a bit more but this sort of establishes the dynamic Buddie has? Because both are fascinated by and focused on each other from the get go. I mean: Eddie got to the 118 and everyone seemed to be nice to him except this one guy and instead of giving him a few days, thinking he’ll come around , Eddie is like: nah, I’ll confront him! Why? Maybe it’s gay, maybe it’s Maybelline, maybe Eddie „I am not enough“ Diaz was just sick and tired of everyone putting trust in him because soldier and craved the vibe check?

- „You can have my back“: Basically what happened was, they got the bomb out (being partners and in sync even when they didn’t like each other yet) and they stood outside and Eddie tries a new approach cause for some reason Eddie decided out of everyone at the 118 he needed Buck to like him specifically and so he pays the guy - who was nothing but rude to him so far but who is also very competent - a compliment and Buck gets all flustered and thankful - and „You’re my problem!“ gets rephrased into „Or you know, you could have mine!“

(Also the look of pure elation on Buck’s face when Eddie compliments him, you know the person Hen has basically said is so awesome and pretty it transcends sexualities? And he picks Buck of all people to have his back? Buck has no choice but to stan!)

- In terms of Trust we also get the pool scene which is our second instance of them being in sync and partners by both jumping into the pool and getting the guy out basically at the same time

2.02 / 2.03: „Why Edmundo Diaz hates earthquakes part 1 and part 2 (of 2)“

- „Where do you want us, Cap?“: Now looking at the timeline of 2.01 they’ve known each other for approximately four days as this is their fourth shift together (we see) and yet Eddie is already comfortable enough to answer for himself and Buck several times. He’s the one who decides they will go in and he answers the roll call later for the both of them. This is our first real instance of them being in sync and just their whole interaction, from Eddie going along with Buck’s plan about the elevator to everything else just shows how much they already trust each other.

- „I, uh, I love kids“: Also Buck in this episode, why was it so important that Eddie knows you like kids? Please share!

- “Eddie, you’re kid is in the safest place he can be.“: Connected to this is a sub-theme I like to call: ‚They know each other better than anyone else does‘ which is established here with Buck realising that Eddie is full of shit when he pretends not to worry about Chris so Buck spends some time trying to assure Eddie Chris is safe at school.

- „Is everything okay?“: Of course, the fact that Buck was the only one to check in with Eddie’s mental state from the truck scene onwards is very telling, because everyone else likes and trusts him but they don’t really care (yet)

- And the episodes end with everyone reuniting with their families, including Eddie - while Buck watches from the car because Buck drove him there because he has his back (also see Subtext)

2.04: „Hearteyes, motherforker“

This whole episode is what made several people ship Buddie and well, I can see it and I will talk about a lot of it with the other themes but for now:

- „I just feel bad for him. (…) Eddie’s working on it“: This episode really leans into the whole „You’re my problem“ with Buck apparently driving Eddie to the hospital (or at least coming along) to Buck clearing Chris coming to the station with Bobby to worrying about them at home until finally he introduces him to Carla.

Mind you, they haven’t known each other that long, yet Buck feels the need to meddle in Eddie’s life and fix his problems for him which, yes, is very Buck thing to do but still: Considering Eddie was introduced to us as this super capable guy, it’s interesting that Buck immediately saw through him and decided: yeah, that guy needs me to take care of him.

Or you know, to have his back.

2.07: „*Tommy Wiseau voice* Oh, hi Shannon!“

- „I needed someone to have my back“: This episode establishes the significance of „You can have my back“ even more because in this episode Shannon comes back and you know what they fight about? Eddie not having her back. Shannon quite literally says „I needed someone to have my back“ which is almost the same exact Eddie tells Buck in 2.01 and with that wording as well ...

In the same scene Shannon also says how Eddie always knows best and is the one to make the decisions which is another parallel you can draw to Buddie where Eddie began like that in 2.01 (the scene at the mechanic’s) and then began to follow Buck’s lead (the elevator shaft) / let Buck help him (Carla))

2.10: „It’s all about ‚figured it was none of my business‘“

I love this episode very much because there are several Buddie hints in there.

- “I think it’s none of our business.“: Connected to the topic of Trust is the scene between Chimney and Buck when they buy the Christmas tree and Buck keeps talking about Shannon coming to the station and the fact that Shannon and Eddie hooked up while Chim seems exasperated by this and frankly doesn’t care and he tells Buck as much, saying it’s none of their business. Except it is because Eddie is Buck’s problem, remember?

- „So … not gonna say anything?“: And then the „None of your / my business“ gets repeated in the scene when Buddie sits at the fountain talking about Chris and Shannon and they both say it’s none of Buck’s business. Yet Eddie then still tells Buck all about it sounding all defensive.

- It’s also the first instance of Eddie willingly searching out Buck’s advice about Christopher.

- And related to the topic of knowing each other well, considering how surprised Buck is by all of this, one sort of has to wonder how often they hang out outside of work. Because the way Buck acts makes one assume it’s quite a lot, which is why Buck is so hurt he doesn’t know about it.

- Also the fact that they so casually go somewhere with Christopher and the way Buck talks about him making it clear they have done this before.

- „Trying to protect your kid.“: On the topic of Trust I also wanna mention the fact that Eddie doesn’t trust Shannon with Christopher. Which is a direct parallel to 3.03 when Eddie tells Buck there is no one he trusts more with his son. And also 3.09 when Buck gets to be back in Chris’s life after the lawsuit as soon as Buddie made up yet Shannon needs to really beg for it? I mean, yeah.

2.13: „ Evan *I colour coordinate with bae while my sister is abducted and my brother is dying* Buckley“

- „Oh, no, I know what you were thinking.“: The scene at the hospital between Buck and Eddie does have a bit of subtextual relevance but I do think we should note the fact that this scene was in the show at all like this because wouldn’t Bobby have made a bit more sense? After all they spent one and a half Season before that making him the guy Buck goes to for advice and he has sisters as well, yet here we get Eddie being the one to talk to Buck.

We get Eddie basically telling Buck exactly what he needed to hear and while not exactly condoning his actions, he is also not judging them. Instead Eddie is telling Buck he might have done the same, because Eddie and Buck know each other and see each other.

So I wouldn’t necessarily call that scene Buddie-hinting but it does definitely play into the whole ‚having each other’s backs‘ and ‚knowing each other well‘ thing they got going on.

Also compare it to 3.06 in the way that both times Buck did something wrong and it was Eddie who actually took the time to listen to Buck’s reasoning and be the one to understand him, which is a very important part of their dynamic.

And the line „I wasn’t worried about that.“ in response to how Buck thought he would get away with all of this might be one of the top 10 heartbreaking lines of this show for me and that is saying a lot with 911!

2.14: „‚It’s a miracle… bro #nohomo’“

I am not fully sure if the scene of Buck freaking out about Eddie going back in to save the kid really fits in here, but I’m also very unsure were else to put it, so Trust it is!

- „Eddie, what are you doing?”: It does fit into the whole having each other’s back thing with Buck immediately jumping into action to try and help Eddie

- But in all honesty prior to 3.14 this would have not made the cut as I would have been like: eh, that’s just who Buck is as a person - but as 3.14 will proof / has proven, he can be calm and collected even when his sister, his ACTUAL family is in danger and while I would argue it was in part because there was less he could do to actively help in 3.14, it still deserves to be mentioned now

- Side note: considering 2.13 / 2.14 and 3.14 / 3.15 this marks two occasions were Buck being worried for Maddie’s life was followed by an episode of Buck being worried for Eddie’s life and that too deserves mentioning

2.18: „insert *Jane Austen film*-gif: It’s about the hands!“

- I’m not really sure if this is really connected to Trust but Eddie holds Buck’s hand the whole time, even after he has dragged him out from under the firetruck until they disappear in the ambulance.

- Also the fact that Eddie, who is probably stronger than Chimney, is the one helping Hen drag Buck out from under the fire truck while Chimney helps lift it is … worth a mention.

- Definitely connected to Trust is Buck’s insistence to going to Eddie’s ceremony because this is Eddie and he has his back

3.01: „How you know he no sleep naked?“

Yes, this scene has a lot to unpack. In terms of *trust* / how well they know each other:

- „He’s just sulking, Cap“: Eddie says about Buck. In my opinion the phrasing combined with how before that they were talking about how Maddie can’t get Buck to leave the house and he won’t answer any of Bobby’s calls implies that either a) Eddie too has tried to contact Buck with no success or b) is actually in contact with Buck, has talked to him and has concluded based on what he saw that Buck is sulking - and yes, I am leaning toward b).

- “Maybe you’ll learn something.“: Which brings me to the fact that it’s Eddie who makes the plan to get Buck out of his funk and prove to him that he still has stuff to live for, despite how dismissive he had been about Buck’s feelings before, calling it sulking and saying Buck should just brush it off. Because Eddie has Buck’s back despite it all and is there for him and trusts him.

- „He’s hanging out with his Buck today“: In terms of actual Trust there is the fact that Buck is very much depressed in this episode - and what does Eddie do? Puts his son in his care, you know, the most important person in Eddie’s life, convinced that Buck will be able to take care of him despite how low and bad he is feeling about himself. One) because it has been the case for Eddie probably. Two) because this is who Buck is as a person even while depressed and Eddie trusts that. And three) because even before the Tsunami Eddie was very sure about how much Buck loved Chris.

- „Honestly I don’t know how to help him.“: This also parallels Maddie with Eddie in an interesting way because Maddie spends the whole episode worried about Buck and thinking he cannot take care of himself, while Eddie trusts in Buck to not only take care of himself but also his son. Which yeah, interesting.

3.02 „Eddie hates earthquakes - the remix“

- The episode sort of proves that while the others may have known what Eddie was gonna do, Operation „Buck up Buck“ was his plan because he is the one who has Buck’s back. (Considering for example Maddie doesn’t know about it as she thinks Buck is home and had Chim been involved he would have told her beforehand meaning this was Eddie’s plan and he executed it and then told the others about it while at work.)

- Also in terms of literal Trust: LA is hit by a Tsunami and Eddie doesn’t worry about his son once because Buck said they are going to the movies next and also because Eddie trusts Buck to protect Chris like he would.

3.03 „‚Do it for the trauma!‘ - Buck-edition“

Once again a subtext-mill but there is some textual evidence as well:

- “How do you tell your best friend that you lost his son?“: At the VA hospital Buck calls Eddie his best friend when he talks to Maddie which I always found weird in this context? Because it should always be hard to tell another person about how you got their child killed (which is not my opinion but the way Buck sees it here, okay?), yet the writers choose to put in a reference to how much Eddie means to Buck.

- Which connects to another subtext and text thing which is the voiceover which has Buck say the lines: „To be seen. To be found. Isn’t that what we’re all looking for?“ after talking to Eddie, which no longer just implies this is about Eddie but actually straight up says it - and it connects to the sub-topic of how well they know each other, cause Buck says in this episode: Eddie is my best friend and he sees me for who I really am. Which, yeah, is stuff one usually finds in connection to a love interest. (Will talk about it more with Subtext though)

- Also before that the voiceover has Buck say „Sometimes being lost is not knowing how to get from where we are to where we wanna be, where we need to be.“ right as Eddie knocks on the door, which basically states that Eddie and Chris might be where Buck wants to be but also how Eddie apparently knows how to get Buck there. Because he knows him so well. (He literally calls Eddie his life raft in the voiceover!)

- „Buck, there is nobody in this world I trust with my son more than you”: Now the Trust theme in regards to the loft scene is interesting in how it compares Buck to two people in Eddie’s eyes / life: Shannon and himself. Shannon, as I already said, we have with 2.07 and 2.10, both of which talked about how she left Chris (and Eddie) and how Eddie no longer trusts her because of this and refuses to let her back into Chris’s life. Which is different to how he always lets Buck back into Chris’s life, even after the lawsuit with virtually no hesitation once they made up as far as we can see. Meaning he trusts Buck more than he trusts Shannon. Who is, you know, his wife?

As for Eddie himself, I’m gonna flashforward a bit to 3.08 and the conversation between Eddie and Bobby. Because in 3.03 Eddie talks about messing up with Chris, yet how he never stops trying and how he knows Buck is the same way - which is interesting considering 3.08 has Eddie basically say that he has not forgiven himself for all those mistakes. Yet he forgives Buck both for the Tsunami and abandoning them during the lawsuit.

And now I wanna say something very controversial and hurtful but also connected to how I read Buddie and Trust which is that in my opinion? Eddie includes himself here. Eddie tells Buck here he trusts him more or at the very least just as much as he trusts himself with his son. Which is pretty big, considering he barely trusted his wife, the mother of said son, who he has known for at the very least about 11 years during Season 2? Someone he himself said he loves? Someone he at one point planned his future with? (Meaning he most definitely plans his future with Buck in it now…)

3.04 „discount!Buck in the house“

- Two things are in this episode, both of which are very much not about Trust in the literal sense but how much time Buddie spends together outside of work:

“Can’t fight city hall.“ Eddie being the only one on board with the fire drill Buck’s leading because he is a boy scout who follows all the rules but also because Buck probably talked to him about his job as fire marshal beforehand and so Eddie knows how important what is happening here is to Buck.

„You don’t know math.“: now, you can think this is another dig at Buck’s intelligence but you also have to acknowledge that at one point Eddie might have either heard someone reference Buck’s math knowledge in front of Eddie or Eddie has seen Buck try doing math and has remembered that well enough to immediately be able to pull out that dig. (Which brings us to a parallel I will talk about later!)

- “Uh, who - who’s that?“: I also firmly believe that Buck would have not been as willing to go along with the lawsuit, despite Bobby’s betrayal, had Eddie not immediately rushed off toward Lena at the firehouse, making Buck think Eddie (his partner) has replaced him. Does no longer need him to have his back.

3.05: „What if we fight like a married couple in a grocery store downtown LA, bro?“

Ah, yes, that episode! Filled with Buddie signs!

- “And if Cap says he’s not ready, he’s not ready.“: What I find interesting in terms of Buddie and Trust is the fact that Eddie apparently trusts Bobby’s judgement more than he trusts Buck’s. Which I find OOC. Or not because Eddie is a soldier and Eddie grew up fairly authoritarian it seems his first instinct will be to follow the chain of command / do as the person in charge tells him to.

- Now everything else that happens after including and specifically the street fighting storyline? That was a direct result of the lawsuit and the deposition in which Buck betrayed Eddie’s trust by revealing the info about Shannon. Which Buck is aware of because up until this point we see him still looking up, yet after this he drops his eyes and doesn’t really look at anyone again during the deposition.

- “And I’m not allowed to talk to Buck.“: Yet. YET despite this massive betrayal in Eddie’s eyes what stops him from calling Buck later is the fact that he wasn’t allowed to do so! Nothing else. Also the phrasing is very interesting as it gives us three entities Eddie considered to call: his abuela, Buck and the 118, meaning Hen, Chim and Bobby - the people he will call his family about 6 episodes later - are an uniformed mass but Buck is his own person - because up to this point Buck always had Eddie’s back. And we all know he still would have had! (Sidenote: this line is what made me an actual shipper and why ya’ll can read posts like this, so maybe say thank you to Lyndsey Beaulieu? Or fuck you, depending on your opinion of me ;P)

- „And now I can’t even talk to you.“: This whole scene gives huge character exposition and I’ve talked a shit ton about the fight in the grocery store before as have a lot of other people, but basically what it boils down to is that Eddie is mad at Buck because he revealed things about them to his lawyer but mostly because Eddie thought they had each others back and trusted each other and apparently Buck doesn’t trust and care about him the same way Eddie does for him because he didn’t even consult Eddie about the lawsuit? And Eddie misses Buck a lot. And Chris misses Buck a lot. And Eddie is already mad because Shannon wanted a divorce despite how hard he tried and then she died, meaning she left him again and now Buck left him as well and why is Eddie never enough for anyone?

And of course, as always, Eddie is mad at himself the most because he wasn’t enough for Shannon and he wasn’t enough for Buck and he’s probably not enough for Chris who is struggling so much and Eddie just feels angry and lost all the time!

I think this is the moment Buck finally understands how much he means to Eddie truly. How Eddie meant every word in 3.03. How for once someone actually trusted him, depended on him - and he let them down. Which was never his intention because Buck never understood that he could (which is not the topic of this post though).

- “Why can’t you see my side of things?“: On Buck’s side, while he isn’t nearly as mad as Eddie, he does raise the question of why Eddie didn’t have his back - which is a very fair question but Eddie is still too mad at Buck here to hear it.

- What is also very interesting about this scene is that no one, not even Bobby who was actually sued by Buck, is as mad at him as Eddie is and no one dares steps between them. Probably because everyone recognises they are closest with each other, so the conversation hits a bit different and also is about a lot more than the „stupid lawsuit“. Yeah.

(Real talk I have been very mad at friends before and I am known to make scenes but damn, this scene does not read platonic at all, it reads ‘married couple fights in grocery store in LA - what happens next will surprise you. News at 11.’)

- In other news, Eddie didn’t come to the rage room in the end and Buck was very very sad about it.

3.06: „*cries about the framing*“

(Sidenote: I feel Eddie so much in this episode, I too would be too embarrassed to talk to Buck had I just screamed at him in a grocery store in full view of all our coworkers. I too would avoid everyone like the plague and maybe join a fight club just so I would not have to deal with those feelings. I get it, my dude!)

- “Whew, dude, are you okay?“: We’ll talk about it with 3.08 as well, but it is very significant and pointed that Buck immediately knows something is wrong with Eddie when no one else at the station had seemed to be aware of that.

- “I don’t know what you want from me, Buck“: The apology scene is very subtext heavy but what it comes down to in the whole having each other’s back / knowing each other well / Trust - column is the fact that after being mad and avoiding him all day Eddie still sticks around and more importantly actually listens to Buck - which, as shitty as that sounds, but considering how he acted before if Eddie hadn’t wanted to still be Buck's friend he could have said something shitty and left or stayed and not actually listened to what Buck had to say - but he didn’t because as hurt as Eddie had been by Buck’s betrayal he still trust him and he wants to understand, which I do think sets Eddie apart from everyone else because Hen and Chim forgive Buck but they don’t ever try to figure out where he is coming from while Bobby is … being Bobby about all of. Eddie meanwhile, who has the most or maybe the only right to actually be mad about the lawsuit, still trusts Buck enough to know that he had his reasons and actually takes the time to listen to them. Even if he is being sassy.

- And on Buck’s side we do have his need to reconnect with Eddie the whole episode and we have him notice stuff about Eddie no one else did and we also have the really beautiful and mature line of Buck saying: „I just want you to talk to me. Even if it’s just to say you’re still mad.“ Which I love very much and tells us a lot about Buck and communication, because Buck values openness so much.

- “And I just wanted to…“ - „Punch someone?“: Also while it was important for Buck to explain himself to someone - it was especially important for him to explain himself to Eddie, both because he considers Eddie his best friend and also because the grocery store scene showed him how much he means to Eddie which probably floored Buck because as we learned before and also after: Buck is not used to people needing him as much as he needs them.

3.08: „XOXO gossip (fire)fighters“

- “Whoo. Nice truck.“: One thing about 911 is that it’s a very plot and action driven show, meaning sometimes it will lack the time to actually show us certain things, especially when it comes to relationships, so it relies a lot on telling us things about characters and their relationships and as these scenes here show us they do a good job at it. Buddie talking about Eddie buying a new truck is very casual and banter-y / flirty (this is a Buddie post so I call it like I see it) and light and shows us: hey, they are friends again and close again and they know each other very well - while also showing us: Eddie still keeps stuff from Buck but Buck knows something is off.

- “Eddie too.“: Which brings me to my next point and the thing I love most about this episode aside from Heidi which is Buck running around and going: ‚something is wrong with Eddie‘ while everyone else is like: ‚Eddie? Are you sure? I haven’t noticed anything‘

Which leaves two ways to read this:

Eddie and the rest of the 118 aren’t as close as it seems and they do not care about Eddie that much - which considering all the deep talk between Eddie and Chimney in 3b especially and the fact that he calls them his family would be fucked up and also doesn’t seem like the vibe they are going for OR

BUDDIE! I mean, look at what has been going on with the street fighting storyline, essentially the writers went: okay, so Eddie can't talk to Buck so he goes completely off the rails but no one will know because Eddie hides it so well - EXCEPT Buck will realise sth is wrong the second he looks at Eddie and once the lawsuit is done he will spend two episodes running after Eddie and trying to figure out what is going on

3.09: „#tw: mild adult themes & implied sexual content / #pwp - porn without porn“

- “He’s kind of obsessed with natural disasters.“: Honest question: Is Buck really obsessed with natural disasters or does Eddie have earthquake related trauma and Buck has been googling stuff and telling him facts to calm Eddie down every time the earth vibrates a little because a train or something passes them by?

In any case it’s a very cute scene with Eddie once more revealing how well he knows Buck and the writers confirming to us that yes, these boys spent a lot of time with each other and talking to each other - without needing to show the scenes

- “I could still take you“: AFTER ALL they needed the runtime to do this other little scene this fandom has not talked about at all ever mainly because it is so very straight basically people stopped shipping after.

I’m just kidding, obviously the whole scene was very queer both in subtext but especially in text, I mean, what even was that line about still taking him, Buck? There is a child not even 15 feet away, where is your sense for decency and decorum? DO YOU WANT TO TRAUMATISE HIM EVEN MORE???

A few notes on this scene:

- It’s been pointed out to me that Maddie complains about how everything around there gets shared with the 118 and how Buck … turns around and shares everything about his sister with Eddie, which I love because it seems so normal and comfortable between them like they do that all the time, which is way cute and domestic!

Added to that considering the conversation Eddie had the week before with Bobby about Shannon and the throwaway reference about thinking his marriage having been complicated, I wonder: Did Eddie talk to everyone about the street fighting and Shannon after his talk with Bobby in 3.08? Did he just talk to Buck about it? Did Buck know about Shannon wanting a divorce all along? (Yeah, you know were I am leaning, right?)

- “Especially if you aren’t around to see that they need saving“: As for the apology in and off itself, I’m not gonna talk about the character implications again cause been there done that, send an ask if you wanna know more, but what it comes down to is: Buck acknowledging that he should have been there for Eddie and he didn’t consider the Eddie of it all when he sued Bobby, which is interesting because OFFICIALLY Eddie really is just his best friend and coworker at this point so did he really have to consider his feelings all that much?

Also Buck is saying - and Eddie is not contradicting this - that Eddie street fighting would not have happened if Buck had been around, which, to quote a good friend of mine: Uff!

I think we can admit that while Eddie was mad at Buck, his anger was not primarily about Buck but it was amplified by Buck abandoning him. We can admit that Buck was what ultimately caused Eddie to lose his control and considering everything that Eddie went through in the past year with Shannon and considering everything Buck went through in the past two years: this is as close to unconditional love as these two can manage at the time and that is very beautiful and does support Buddie 100%. They are each other’s anchor and person the one they turn to in a crisis.

Or well, Buck is for Eddie. Buck does have more people like that in his life with his sister there and I do think before the lawsuit he wasn’t fully aware that he could depend on Eddie so fully because Buck always doubts how committed other people are to him because abandonment issues.

3.11: „Bist du single? Nein, eher Album!“

- „This is Eddie’s house. I’m not really a guest.“: Incredibly strong indicator / implications toward how much time these two boys spent with each other, considering how comfortable both of them are in each other’s space (and I don’t mean physical but material space). Eddie has a key to Buck’s apartment and just let’s himself in willy-nilly, while Buck is around in Eddie’s place often enough to not think of himself as a guest there. (And while that might be normal best friend behaviour to some of us, Maddie’s words imply that it is not for her / the Buckleys.)

3.14: „Frank says ‚Thank you, this paid for my new house!‘“ / 3.15: „MY therapist also says ‚Thank you!‘“

I’m gonna group these two together, since 3.14 in itself doesn’t have any relevance considering Eddie isn’t even in the episode but it does become relevant in regards to 3.15!

- Basically what it all comes down to is the contrast between Buck’s reaction to Maddie being in danger and his reaction to Eddie nearly dying!

Now I already said while talking about 2.14 part of it was that Buck was aware he was in no position to help Maddie and might actually make stuff worse if he intervenes while with Eddie he was HIS ACTUAL LIFELINE! He was actually responsible for getting Eddie out of the well and home to his family. BUT (!) it’s still very pointed, especially remembering they apparently changed the order of episodes around? Meaning we are really hit with the contrast and we have to consider the implications of it all!

- Also just Buck’s reaction in general, even with Chimney and Maddie in Season 2 he wasn’t this frantic, he wasn’t freaking out like that! This really seems like all those scene’s shows like that usually do to confirm one person is in love with the other by having them completely loose it at the prospect of the other dying.

And damn, does 911 delivers here, not just with Buck literally trying to dig down to Eddie with his bare hands but also with his conviction for the rest of the episode before going sort of catatonic near the end. Basically Buck was going through the 5 stages of grief over Eddie during the course of this episode and we just? Let him?

- Of course we should mention Buck has Eddie’s back always, so he doesn’t give up on him and doesn’t entertain the notion of Eddie possibly being dead for even a microsecond because this is Eddie and Buck needs him!

- And to add to the list of heartbreaking lines we have Hen saying: „Why? So we have two cut lines?“ because yes, Buck would choose to stay down there rather than let himself be saved if Eddie was already dead - and if Eddie wasn’t he would force Eddie to trade lines with him so Buck could be the one to die because Buck thinks Eddie’s life is more valuable than his and also he is a selfless idiot who loves Eddie more than himself - which frankly is a mutual thing if we look at 3.03

Option #3 btw would be that Hen knows Eddie has a legitimate reason to cut his line and he would explain that to Buck and - considering who they are - Buck would immediately agree and cut his line as well.

Anyways, no matter which option the writers were thinking off this line is heartbreaking and the implication interesting!

To sum it all up, the episode basically said: Buck would die for Eddie and he loves him more than anything else

- The Eddie implications of this episode are mostly Subtext, so we’ll get to them later in case you thought I forgot!

3.16: „The rope was a metaphor after all“

Tbh I do not think that this episode was really about how no person can be happy / live without regrets / not be lonely unless they are in a relationship with someone or they would not have put that much focus on the relationship between Maddie and Buck and the fact that his abandonment issues stem from her leaving.

- “He’s not gonna do it alone“: As for Buddie, the episode goes back to them being partners and in sync with the roof thing and yay, it has a different ending then the reversed situation the episode before but also it features a metaphor we will talk about later

- “Hey, you’re more than welcome to come and celebrate with a bunch of 9 year olds.“: Just like we will talk later about Eddie inviting Buck to the sleepover! Because while I don’t think the invite was all that serious and I don’t think even considering everyone else, Buck would have taken him up on it because celebrating with a bunch of 9 year olds around isn’t what Buck had in mind, it’s very interesting that the first person taken out of the equation is the guy Buck is closest to and probably spends the most time with.

- And now let’s talk about the playing pool scene because it once again shows that 1) Buck and Eddie are very alike, 2) they know each other very well and 3) they care about each other the most!

Because for 1) I do wanna point everyone to the fact that Eddie doesn’t have anyone outside his family and the 911 either or they would have mentioned him staying in contact with his army buddies or something.

2) Eddie is the only one who actually listens to what Buck says and gets what Buck is really asking, while Bobby, Hen and Chim are all too focused on their own experiences to get that the reason Buck tries so hard to help Red is because he thinks he is Red (I mean they do get it, but they don’t really realise how serious this is for Buck - yet)

3) There is also a lot of focus on Eddie in this scene which we will talk about later as well but it picks up the whole ambiguous „us“ from the grocery store which technically refers to the whole firefam but the way it’s said still implies that it is about the two of them especially.

To anticipate a bit: every time the word „Us“ is used in this scene Buddie only looks at each other. When Buck says „I mean that would never happen … to us.“ he looks at everyone else but turns to look at Eddie as he very pointedly says „to us“ and keeps his focus there for a moment. Eddie meanwhile technically turns to the pool table while he says the word „us“ but he only focuses on Buck before this and doesn’t look at anyone else because to him: Buck is the important aspect here. And no one else!

Not to mention the intense look Buck gives Eddie (and only Eddie) when he says „Better not.“. Like damn, in 3 Seasons Buck has never sounded this threatening before!

Basically the way this scene is acted combined with the words that were written it sort of reads like them going: We’re all family here but you and me will most definitely never leave each other!

I mean there is a reason why Buddie used the ambiguous „us“ while everyone else talked about the firefam being friends or being family.

(And yes, that might be a bit of a reach but this is a Buddie guide after all, so we are going with the buddie-est interpretation!)

3.17: „‚Don’t say her name‘-challenge“

- “Uh no, someone else.“: More of a subtext scene but it does seem pointed that Buck refuses to admit that he was thinking about Abby here, considering Bobby most definitely knew that Buck was talking about Abby because he was there for the hot-air balloon date, so even if he did not remember right away he knew the second Buck said he didn’t know from Maddie and since Hen and Chimney weren’t there in the truck (and also, they probably would have known who Buck was talking about as well) the only one Buck was hiding from was Eddie.

Which makes sense, even if you only look at them as best friends, because Eddie only saw the aftermath and what we canonically know that he heard about Abby were things like Buck’s speech in 2.08, so … even as just Buck’s friend he must really dislike her

(Also there is that whole parallel one can draw between Abby and Shannon which I talked about here)

- „Buck invites Eddie“: So I’ve been going back and forth on what to write here for a few hours now and what it comes down to is this: despite being 6500 words deep into a meta on Buddie and knowing full well the writers so far have no intention of actively doing Buddie, I would not accuse 911 of queerbaiting. HOWEVER, if the show ends and Buddie doesn’t happen I will consider this scene queerbaiting because there would have been ways to write this that did not leave the implications it did because the way it has been written the text is:

„If I bring my romantic life-partner to dinner with my best friend he will bring his romantic life-partner who will invite her brother who will invite his best friend and then we have to invite this other couple we are all close with.“ and well, one of them is not like the others, right?

(Well, technically two but Maddie and Buck are most definitely siblings despite that scene in 2.01)

Because essentially what that scene did here was say: If I bring my wife the evening turns into this couples night with all our friends - except Buck and Eddie aren’t a couple.

And sure, just like all great queerbaits there is a reasonable explanation as well as a completely platonic way to read this because of course Buck would not wanna be all alone with two couple so he would bring his best friend and the we’d have to invite the other couple we know as well so they don’t feel left out.

EXCEPT - and this is why it feel pointed and queerbait-ey: We have already seen the 118 hang out without Athena and Bobby at Chimney’s birthday and it was never mentioned to us whether they were invited and didn’t come - or Chimney didn’t invite them. Both explanations sort of make Hen’s point moot because it does proof that they can hang out without their boss slash friend and his wife slash her best friend without it being a big deal meaning especially if this was a make-up dinner for Chimney’s birthday they wouldn’t have needed to be there.

There is also the fact that supposably Alfred is still in town? You know, Chimney’s brother? So if they wanted to avoid the Buddie implication they could have also thrown in how Chim might bring his brother like:

„I invite you, so he invites Maddie, Maddie invites Buck, Buck invites Eddie, Chim might invite Alfred, and now we gotta invite Athena and Bobby“ - see how that has a completely different feel? Now there are three single guys and two of which are siblings of someone else in the group while the third is friends with the rest of the group, making this sound less like couples night out and more like a group of friends hanging out.

But they didn’t do it like that so now it feels like they are pointedly equating Buddie with the canon couples of the show which is quite queerbait-ey.

3.18: „TrainCRASH? More like train WRECK? *cries*“

Okay, so this episode is a little hard to do because there is so much going on and a lot of it is very hard to categorise! As for the topic of Trust and having each other’s back:

- I do think that a lot of Eddie here come down to having Buck’s back - even when Buck might not think that’s what Eddie’s doing like in the train car, but he probably realised later which is why we see Buck talk about it with Bobby but not with Eddie because they are at this point where you no longer need to have clarifying talks (about stuff like that, once romantic!Buddie hits they’ll have to do all the talking).

And that’s basically it when it comes to Trust because most of what is happening in the episode when it comes to Buddie is Subtext!

Coparenting

I think this theme needs less of an explanation - though I do wanna point out that while I think Buck has fatherly feelings for Chris and Chris loves Buck a lot, Buck is not actually his parent / father. He is slowly getting there and if or when Buddie happens he might become Chris’s other parent but right now he is not. So this theme is about Buck being a honorary member of the Diaz family in general and Eddie’s treatment of him most of all.

Because the way I see Eddie him dating anyone would always be tied to his son. Eddie has been shown to be someone who would do anything for family and his son in particular, so the fact that Buck is tied into this family is important. It also shows how much they are already a family without actually dating and proofs they spent more time with each other than we see and more than with anyone else.

I should also say that there is a very heavy overlap between this and the category of Subtext so some things will be repeated but all of them deserve to be repeated so there is that.

2.02 / 2.03: „Why Edmundo Diaz hates earthquakes part 1 and part 2 (of 2)“

- Like I already said when I discussed Trust Buck is the only one asking who Eddie is trying to reach, he is the only one trying to reassure Eddie and he does so even though Eddie is being sarcastic and pretending he doesn’t need to be comforted - also a staple in their relationship

And I think this is also were their dynamic of Buck being Eddie’s go to person when it came to Chris came from. Buck told Eddie he liked kids and then he proceeded to actually show Eddie he means it and he cares and considering Eddie says the mother isn’t in the picture and Chris has no one else (which as we learn throughout the show is not 100% true because technically Eddie's parents are there, even if they have no idea how to properly raise Chris, but in LA Eddie doesn’t really have anyone (yet) he feels comfortable burdening with his fears about Chris), so that must mean one hell of a lot.

- “Hey. Service.“: There is also the moment at the end of 2.03 when Buck immediately tells Eddie: hey, service is back! and then he drives Eddie to pick up Chris which is a scene that has so much subtext so we’ll talk about it later! It does however give us our first‚ Diazs plus Buck‘-family moment because while we see everyone reuniting with their loved ones, we see Buck with Eddie and Chris and yeah.

2.04: „Hearteyes, motherforker“

- One of my favourite things about Buddie is how they manage to be exactly what the other person needs - or in case of this episode figure out exactly what the other person needs and giving it to them. It’s happening here and again in 3.01 and 3.03 and some other smaller moments as well (see 2.01 honestly).

It’s also interesting that Buck is the one to drive Eddie again because we saw he has a car! So why is that? Maybe because he knows the way better?

As for the coparenting happening here, aside from Buck introducing Eddie to Carla because he knows she is what Eddie needs, we also have Buck clearing Chris coming to the station with Bobby which is something Eddie apparently hadn’t considered but Buck had and instead of telling Eddie he needs to do that - he does it for him! Because that’s who Buck is but also because Buck realised in this episode how much Eddie really needs someone to have his back and just do stuff for him.

2.07: „*Tommy Wiseau voice* Hi Shannon“

- And in terms of having each other’s back this episode really shows the significance of this phrase with Shannon pointing out, like I said before, that from her point of view Eddie didn’t have her back. She needed him to be her husband and her coparent and he wasn’t.

Now we can argue whether that is true or not but it’s still an important parallel and puts Eddie turning toward Buck for advice into a new light.

Because as Shannon points out Eddie was never good at letting other people make decisions for him or with him before yet we continuously see him turning toward Buck for exactly that: sharing the load with him. And to put that even more into perspective: Buck is the youngest from their friend group, he is the one considered immature and he is the one without kids or younger siblings, yet he is the one Eddie choose for helping.

2.10: „It’s all about ‚figured it was none of my business‘“

- The interesting thing here is that Buck as Eddie’s friend really doesn’t have any right to know about what was happening between Shannon and Eddie if Eddie didn’t want him to, but Buck as Eddie’s family does (a little).

But either way this episode gives us another instance of Eddie confiding in Buck about his family problems - problems he again is the one most inexperienced with. In other words Eddie talking to Buck about it was really about Eddie wanting Buck’s opinion specifically.

There is also the fact that Buck came to see Santa with Eddie in the first place which is most definitely a family affair as far as I know US customs? (We don’t do this in Germany / Bavaria, okay? We have the Child of Christ and around the 6th we gather in the town square and shoot at it.)

It’s even brought up in text with the Elf telling Buck they make a beautiful family - and Buck not disagreeing because honestly it’s just easier and he probably knows how they looked. But yeah. That!

- Also not to repeat myself but the topic of trust is important here! Eddie not trusting Shannon in 2.07 / 2.10 with Chris vs. trusting Buck in 3.03 / 3.09 / 3.10 is important!

Yes, sure Shannon is his actual mother so Chris has stronger feelings for her and the potential to get hurt is way bigger. Yes, Buck was only gone from their life for a few weeks while Shannon was gone for about 2 years. Yes, Buck apologised twice while Shannon just played the victim card tbh (even though she did have a point with some of the stuff she said). But still:

Eddie is very hesitant to let Shannon back into his son’s life (and really his as well) while he does have no such qualms about Buck once Buck apologises to him in 3.06. In fact their relationship returns to normal with Eddie asking Buck for help with Chris numerous times while say 2.15 makes it clear Eddie still keeps Shannon at arms’ length and out of a lot of aspects of raising Chris.

Of course, giving advice to Eddie is not the same level of involved as actually parenting the child and part of it is probably growth on Eddie’s side when it comes to Season 3 but right here: it’s a stark contrast and it deserves a mention!

2.17: „*fridges female character for man pain* Haha, we’re so random!“

- „Ice cream? Oh, I do not envy you putting him to sleep tonight!“: There is the scene here where Eddie facetimes with Shannon and she is out and about with Chris and Abuela and they are getting ice cream and Eddie is all like: damn you’ll regret that later - which is the same thing he says about Buck in 3.02

3.01: „How you know he no sleep naked?“

- Buck gets a card from Chris which is a child thing to do but also should be mentioned because Buck does not get a card from Danny or Harry. And considering how much Buck likes children and how good he is with them we do have to mention that we only see Buck interact with Danny once and never with Harry while it’s been implied several times before the tsunami already that Buck does spend a lot of time with Chris. (Of course, in part this is due to how much closer Buck is with Eddie than Hen and especially Athena but still)

After all the season ends with Chris giving a card to his literal father, tying these two scenes together. And pointing out once again how important Buck is for Chris and the Diaz family.

- Also as I mentioned during Trust there is that parallel / contrast between how Maddie and how Eddie see Buck with Maddie sort of treating him like a child who needs to be dealt with while Eddie is basically like: let’s give him something to do so he feels less useless! (Guess who had the right idea! Just guess! And you have one try!)

- „Are we the only one’s without kids?“: There is also the cut from Madney talking about being the only one’s without kids and then remembering Buck to Buck getting woken up by Eddie so he can babysit Chris which I won’t say confirms Buck being a father to Chris but does accentuate everything he does for Chris after and gives the vibe that Buck does indeed have some fatherly feelings for Chris. It does at least place the idea of the Diazs WITH Buck being a family firmly into our heads.

3.02 „Eddie hates earthquakes - the remix“

- „How’s operation Buck up Buck going?“: Buck sending Eddie updates and pictures of Chris and himself hanging out is just really cute

- Also Eddie isn’t worried about his son at all!

- And we do have that tweet from Oliver Stark about jumping into the receding water at the end of 3.02 being basically suicide but Buck still doing it because the director told him, he’d do it for his own kids.

3.03 „Do it for the trauma - Buck-edition“

- I talked about it before with Trust but basically Eddie, who has parents who are still alive and physically able and love his son very much, even if they have different ideas of how to raise his son, and a sister with at least one child not that much older than Chris and a grandma and an aunt and probably some more family in LA AND Carla who he literally pays to take care of his son, literally tells his best friend he is the one he trusts the most with said son. That is fucking meaningful!

3.05: „What if we fight like a married couple in a grocery store downtown LA, bro?“

- „You know how much Chris misses you?“: The fact that Eddie brings Chris up at all and to hurt Buck specifically is - in part about Eddie deflecting from himself but also about Christopher actually missing Buck, which says a lot about the relationship Chris and Buck have and how much time they spent together if that is something Eddie would bring up here.

3.09: „#tw: mild adult themes & implied sexual content / #pwp - porn without porn“

- „I’d rather be at home with my kid, enjoying the one good thing I got going on.“: Eddie says these words during therapy and where do him and his son spent the following evening or at least an evening that same week? With Buck at his loft. Because even though Buck wasn’t mentioned here as part of the family time Eddie would much rather have, apparently he is part of it.

3.10: „Parenttrapping for Beginners“

- „Well, I thought it would be nice to bring the boys together for a playdate.“ - „All three of `em.“: this speaks for itself, Buck being invited in the first place was … an interesting choice? A dig at Buck’s mental age? Exposition? What exactly, Tim? Like what was the vibe in the writers room here?

- „Hey, Buck? (…) Can I spent Christmas with you?”: The fact that Chris would rather spent Christmas with Buck than with his grandma and the rest of their family is interesting as well and again points toward Buck being an integral part of the Diaz family.

- The way Eddie looks at Buck here and the little head shake implied to me that Buck and Eddie had the same conversation Eddie and Hen have right then already.

3.11: „Bist du single? Nein, eher Album!“

- “Well, that’s what the 118 is. The family we chose.“: Again maybe more subtext than text but when Eddie talks about the 118 being his family the camera pans to *drumroll* Chris, his actual blood family, Albert, Chim’s actual blood family - and Buck, who is basically Chim’s little brother and Eddie’s, well, best friend? Coparent? Partner in work and life? SOULMATE?

Yes, it’s a little subtext, but it’s interesting that this scene shows only one character neither of them are related to and it’s Buck, emphasising once more that these two and especially Eddie (because he’s the one talking here) think of Buck as their family.

3.12: „There’s a horse loose in a hos… school“

- “(…) we should try it together”: Again with the emphatic inclusion of Buck in family scenes! (But this time Carla gets to be there as well - though only to record them?)

This episode introduces Ana Flores as a potential love interest for Eddie and then spends the whole episode contrasting and paralleling her with Buck, as one does …

In this episode as well Eddie gets advice about Chris from several people and it’s interesting that the one person whose advice he follows without disagreeing or trying something else first is once again Buck.

The episode also maybe implies that Buck was the one to built or buy or find out about the skateboard.

But really what matters here is Eddie reaffirming that there is no one he trusts more with his son (because he refused to take Carla’s advice right away but he did listen and think about what Buck had to say right away - despite his joking) and Buck being included in the family scene.

3.15: „MY therapist also says ‚Thank you!‘“

- „I’m always gonna fight to come home to my family.“: I’m not gonna comment on the lack of Shannon in the montage because I do believe part of it was that they didn’t really have scenes that fit and would have had to film them specifically which would then have to fit into the timeline / storyline before and also mostly it was about Shannon already being dead meaning she is no longer part of the family Eddie can come home to, so it makes a hell of a lot of sense for her not to be included, guys!

That being said I do believe Buck being in it quite a lot means something about how much of a part in Eddie’s family he is! Which is a big part and something I love about them a lot!

- Also Buck was so very happy Chris came to visit and then immediately walked over, which doesn’t really have any relevance except I thought it was cute and this is my guide.

3.16: „The rope was a metaphor after all“

- Obviously it was meant jokingly, but Eddie would have loved if Buck came and not just because being alone with a bunch of 9 year olds is no one’s idea of a fun evening and Eddie could probably use the help (still hoping Carla was there with him and still surprised Eddie was in such a good mood during the pool scene after), but because he likes to spend time with Buck and he did wanna celebrate with him - but he was also very aware that spending the evening with 9 year olds was not what Buck envisioned so he said it jokingly.

3.18: „Traincrash? More like train WRECK? *cries*“

- “Whoa! Whoa! Two weeks from home? Isn’t Chris kinda young for that?“: I don’t think I need to say more about that scene really, I think everyone who saw it understood that it confirmed the 118 but especially Buck being fairly involved in Christopher’s life and how that confirms: Buck = part of the Diaz family.

- Also all the interactions between Buck and Chris at the party both with and without Eddie around I mean, yeah, again, meaningful!

- In conclusion: Eddie, Chris and Buck are family and dems the facts!

Connection and love life

Now, this is where we are slowly going subtext and also really interpretation heavy!

The title might be a bit missleading but I didn’t really know how else to sum all aspects up. Basically this theme is about their love live but also about the parallels between their storylines - especially when it comes to their love life!

Also this theme isn’t organised by episode but by subtopics because I summed up so many different aspects here.

Parallels in their storylines:

- 3.15 / 3.16 and the rope metaphor as a metaphor for their dating life:

Technically the rope is a metaphor for their lives and them letting go of things in general but especially about their dating life because for Eddie in my opinion this is when he really fully comes to terms with Shannon’s death while Buck finally admits to his abandonment issues, in part caused by Abby leaving.

(Side note: the fact that Eddie choose to cut his line just like he choose to actually do therapy to deal with his issues for Christopher’s sake while Buck’s burns away and he is literally forced to deal with his issues through being confronted with Red and running into Abby at the train crash is … something.)

Their dating life is being paralleled:

This really isn’t technically something that explains why you should ship them but I do think it’s interesting that from the get go their love lives have been happening in parallels / contrasts to each other? As if they were connected? Magnets?

So yeah, that and also it goes like this:

- 2.01: Eddie references Buck being single

- 2.02 / 2.03: Eddie first mentions Shannon but indicates a break-up / Buck meets Ali and seems to bond with her

- 2.04: both refuse to hook up with any of the girls at the bar and don’t want to date because they consider themselves taken (I know Eddie says it’s about Chris but Buck called bullshit here and text told us to trust Buck on what he says about Eddie)

- 2.06: Buck flirts with Taylor and Eddie acts a bit jealous

- 2.07: While Buck finally comes to term with his break up with Abby in her absence, Shannon returns and we learn that Eddie has sort of been holding out hope so far (they kiss in the end) (Also Eddie and Shannon and Buck and Taylor both happen in parking lots which probably only means they ran out of location money but still!)

- 2.08: Buck hooks up with Taylor, then meets with Ali and begins dating her

- 2.10: it’s revealed that Eddie has been sleeping with Shannon and Buck is miffed

- 2.11 - 2.16: we get a few mentions of Ali and some scenes between Eddie and Shannon reminding us both these relationships are happening and they are growing closer

- 2.17: Shannon thinks she is pregnant, Eddie wonders about their relationship, Shannon wants a divorce but dies before they can go through with it

- 2.18: Buck gets a new apartment because of Ali, their relationship seems ready to become more serious, then Buck gets hurt and Ali is traumatised by this and tells Buck she needs to rethink the relationship

- 3.01: it is revealed that Ali and Buck broke up

- 3a: both of them work through the trauma of the past few months, no references to either of them dating are made, romantic and / or domestic scenes happen between them instead, the ambiguous „us“ happens

- 3.11: they are asked about their relationship-status to remind us about them being single (AND THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER? Wow.)

- 3.12: It’s pointed out again that Buck is single but he says he prefers it that way while Eddie meets Ana and shows some interest in her, then during a call Buck indicates that he might not be as happy being single as he told Madney and Josh while also seeming a bit happy Eddie won’t be dating Ana (probably)

- 3.15: Eddie finally fully comes to terms with his past, including his relationship with Shannon and her dying

- 3.16: Buck reveals he might still be hung up on what happened with Abby and he realises he needs to move on, the ambiguous „Us“ is brought back

- 3.18: Buck runs into Abby and actually moves on

- Side note: considering 2.08 and 2.10 and 3.09 and some remarks made throughout the show, Buck and Eddie are somewhat aware of the relationship struggles the other had which isn’t really relevant but also sort of is

Parallels with canon couples

This is TV and TV and especially shipping lives through tropes and parallels inside the story to subtext tell you something you need to know without actually having to say the words, but just to plant the idea in the viewers head.

For example, and please I am just spitballing here, you are writing a show about Lifeguards. And there are these two characters who are named … Paddie and Tucker. They have amazing chemistry and they are best friends and love each other a lot. Now, you, as the showrunner, are considering making them a romantic item but you need to do it slow cause while you do have queer characters and a queer following this show is fairly mainstream and also the characters have presented as straight in text so far. So you need to do crumbs, right?

Okay, so how do you best do that? Well, Tucker is known as this really caring guy and very open with his feelings and he freaks out when someone he loves is in danger - so you put Paddie in danger, right? Proofs he loves him, right?

But then you want it to have some deeper queer implications, right, in case you do decide on making them romantic? So how do you best do that? Well, lucky for you, Tucker has a sister. And you were planning on putting her in danger as well this season anyways, so you just have Tucker react a bit more subdued here, right?

But then you really want it to hit people, like you need people who are more casual and mainstream and might not have noticed the romantic undertones Tuddie has had to notice that, right? So you put these two episodes back to back.

Except „Paddie Begins“ is set to air first and well, Tucker IS known to lose his shit about people he cares about being in danger, so they might not actually notice anything more. Or they will just consider Tucker not reacting as hard about his sister, Sadie, being in danger bad writing. And you can’t have that!

So how do you fix that? Well, you just change the episode order! Now the episode with Sadie in danger airs first and people will spent a week complaining about how out of character Tucker was and it will be still on their minds when „Paddie Begins“ happens and Tucker goes feral and it will hit EVERYONE! Like damn, apparently Tucker cares more about Paddie than Sadie? Why? What makes Paddie so much more important?

Anyways, this is how you test out an idea in TV and why tropes and parallels are important…

Moving on:

- 2.14: „‚It’s a miracle… bro #nohomo’“: Now I have already written a bit about Buck’s reaction to Eddie potentially dying to safe the kid and while it is fairly tame for Buck it’s still something you usually see a guy do for a love interest (Any of ya’ll watch „Chicago Fire“? Because I watched like the first two Seasons and the main „Will they / won’t they“ - couple had a scene like that about once every three episodes. Cause it’s a trope!)

- 3.02 „Eddie hates earthquakes - the remix“: This is a teeny tiny bit of a stretch and there wasn’t even any nice cuts to anyone in the firefam to indicate they were referenced (which I found odd, considering this would have also fit for Bobby) but the guy who got impaled with his son in law said: „She‘s the love of my life but he‘s her‘s.“ which considering this episode has Buck doing everything to protect Christopher means a lot and I think about it once a day, okay?

- 3.14 vs 3.15 vs. 3.16 vs. 3.17 vs. 3.18 - Losing the love of your life and how to deal with that:

This may be the biggest parallel of all, and maybe I could have included 2.14 as well but I didn’t because it’s a whole season removed. It also seems meaningful that this episodes happen one after the other, making us naturally compare the scenes and see / look for patterns.

But to explain real quick:

In 3.14 Maddie is in danger and Chimney, who is her boyfriend and told her he loves her just one episode earlier, freaks out completely

In 3.15 Eddie might die / is considered dead by several of his friends already and Buck utterly looses it! We are talking frantic screaming and trying to dig Eddie out by hand and running around trying to figure out ways to save Eddie only to turn full on catatonic when none of that works. I mean, his mood turns faster than mine when I am hangry while on my period and that is saying sth!

3.16 could be considered a bit of a stretch but we do see Red lash out a lot when he realises that Cindy, the woman he considered the love of his life and someone he pined after for quite a while doesn’t exist like that anymore.

In 3.17 Athena is put in great danger and Bobby is forced / able to listen to it and while I am not sure if the blank look on Bobby’s face is bad acting, a deliberate but accidental acting choice OR done consciously in a way that mirrors Oliver’s acting in 3.15 - it’s there and it’s a parallel and we can watch it and compare it and see it.

To bring this whole thing home for us they contracted another outside player in the form of Connie Britton playing Buck’s ex-girlfriend Abby, who similarly to Red and Buck, turns frantic upon possibly loosing her fiancé and starts panic and lash out a little, which is fair and also part of a motherforking pattern, ya’ll!

- Another fairly obvious parallel between 3.14 and 3.15 is Buck telling Sue - as the watch Maddie and Chimney hug - that Maddie already has everything she needs when Sue asks him why he didn’t immediately rush toward his sister. Which can be compared to 3.15 were he does immediately rush to Eddie’s side and support and hug him!

- I’ve already written about 700 words on 3.17 and the line „Buck invites Eddie“ so I’ll just point you back toward that part of the guide where I pointed out that Buddie was actively compared to the three main canon pairings here. Which is a lot and also could have been avoided and probably queerbaiting.

- Again, teeny tiny bit of a stretch maybe but like, we’re here to talk about anything in canon pointing toward Buddie and also this is my guide and I do what I want but in 3.18 we learn that Abby is now engaged to a single father and considering she was only gone for about two years (Season 2 takes place over the course of one year and in 3.13 we learn that Madney has been dating for just under 11 months so unless there was a time jump somewhere in the last 5 episodes we weren’t really told about, we clock in at about 2 years and maybe one or two months, tops, at the end of Season 3), they have been together for less than that time, even if we think Abby already knew him when she was still dating Buck. Which timeline wise puts them meeting maybe around the time Buck met Eddie, maybe a bit after, meaning Abby met and began dating and fell in love with and decided to marry a single father in the same timespan Buddie did … whatever it is they are doing! Which is meaningful because for the viewing of the Abby/Buck relationship which I am glad more and more people are realising was very unbalanced and provides an interesting parallel to Buddie because this means Abby and Buck met and developed feelings for a single father around the same time. Idk, I understand that the whole father thing was to make Buck care even more but damn, it’s a parallel so I mention it!

- Michael and Doctor Hale vs Eddie and Ana (3.17/3.18 vs. 3.12ff.)

Now, of course we need to realise that Eddie and Michael are fairly different characters and Michael has way less relationship related baggage than Eddie has which is why he goes after what he wants way faster (also, carpe diem, he just found out he won’t die). Also of course, there is no moral component to address in Michael dating some doctor vs. Eddie dating his son’s teacher, but still:

Michael and Dr. Hale had one scene together and it wasn’t even overly flirty and yet, we knew where it was heading, we felt the chemistry and everyone ended the episode saying: I ship it, more of that - which they did give us, just one episode later. They had some awkward moments, yet the show never left a single doubt in your mind where this is heading.

Now look at Eddie and Ana:

First of all we learned more about Doctor Hale in the two short scenes than we did about Ana in four scenes. That seems deliberate.

Second, while we do realise Eddie thinks Ana is attractive from the get go she repeatedly shuts him down by pointedly saying „Mr. Diaz“.

Third, every scene between Michael and Doctor Hale was romantically coded and we know where this was heading while aside from the initial scene between Ana and Eddie and maybe the second scene there were no hints of romance between the two. In fact in 3.15, an episode that is about Eddie moving forward in his life and letting go of the past she is both mentioned and actually appears, yet there are no hints of romance and romantic interest, not from Eddie and not in form of teasing from Buck and especially Carla, who pointed out Eddie’s interest in her previously. Soooooo…

Parallels with Love Interests

Now, obviously we also cannot talk Buddie without talking about them dating in general and then relating this to each other. In other news: there are parallels between each and every love interest Eddie ever had and Buck and also between Eddie and Abby.

(Side note: I could probably also find parallels between Eddie and Taylor and Eddie and Ali but tbh both of these barely qualify as love interests, especially Ali, who despite actually being in a relationship with Buck we know nothing about (hi, original Ana! You did good and I am sorry people hate you for having boundaries!))

Eddie paralleling Abby

I mean the truth is we don’t even need Eddie paralleling any other girlfriend of Buck cause there are so many between Abby and Eddie!

- Abby and Carla vs. Eddie and Carla:

The biggest one might be parallel that both employ Carla and why. Which is in part because Buck brought Carla to Eddie but goes deeper than that.

There is that conversation between Bobby and Buck about Abby and her mother in 1.09 when Buck wanted to break up with Abby and Bobby basically said: if you wanna date someone you have to love them baggage and all and should be there for them as well - and while Buck did try doing that with Abby, well, Patricia died before he could fully step into the ring and then Abby left, BUT he showed no hesitation after that to step right into Eddie’s life, into his issues, with him. And he even brought in Carla as a baggage carrier, isn’t that nice?

Also the whole reason why they need Carla around in the first place as both of them are taking care of a family member (plus the fact that Christopher is a literal child so even without CP Eddie would need help taking care of him working the hours he has).

Also tía Pepa quite literally calls Eddie a saint and I am pretty sure Abby was called sth similar by Carla and Bobby in Season 1 though I don’t care enough to check mainly because the implication was there all through the first ten episodes about how Abby was such a great person for taking care of her ailing mother.

But really it comes down to the parallels between Bobby telling Buck that a real relationship is about sharing the load and the conversation between Maddie and Buck as well as anything else in 2.04 where Buck is so desperate to be there for Eddie and help him.

- There is also a definite parallel to be drawn between the conversation Abby and Buck had in the Jeep while looking for her mom about how Abby hasn’t had sex in a year and Buck asking Eddie about dating in 2.04. It’s a little subtextual, but between the expression on his face and the topic and the teasing and the walking shoulder to shoulder it does feel alike to me so I mentioned it.

- street fighting vs. the apology: losing yourself

Now this one I love a lot because while it does happen half a season apart and isn’t explicitly expressed on the show: Eddie’s whole ark in Season 3a is about losing control and by extent losing himself because Buck wasn’t around. Abby meanwhile talks about how she found herself after she left LA and how she would have lost herself again if she returned to Buck (which is absolute bullcrap but not the point).

- There are also some parallels to be drawn between Buck, Eddie, Abby and Shannon (and technically also Maddie) and the whole leaving each other thing, with Eddie leaving Shannon for the army without consulting her about it while Abby left Buck for Ireland and then also the lawsuit where in a way Buck left Eddie like Shannon did, being so caught up in his own feelings he didn’t consider what Eddie (and Christopher) were going through.

But we can also acknowledge how it must have felt to Buck with Lena / Eddie taking Bobby’s side like he was once again replaced / left for someone else, much like Abby left him for Ireland and Maddie left him for Doug.

Buck paralleling Ana, Lena and Shannon

Buck on the other hand side parallels Eddie’s love interest a lot sometimes down to the clothes (and yes, technically Lena isn’t a love interest but Ryan Guzman thought she was and aside from the fact that he’s into women that could beat him up (which for once, not judging you, bro) and considering the parallels with Buck … that means if Buck was a woman, well, ya know?) so let’s talk about that

- Buck and Shannon:

I’ve already talked about that one a lot so I will only mention it here real quick but the whole Eddie not trusting Shannon vs. trusting Buck despite his betrayal again like right away once he apologised (which yes, what Buck did was not as bad and far more justified) and letting him back into Christopher’s life IS a parallel, considering for example how Shannon asks about Chris missing her (though it’s been over two years, at one point children just stop asking as we know Chris did) and Eddie telling Buck Chris misses him in the grocery store scene.

Also Eddie not trusting his wife and Chris’ mother with him fully even after they reconciled and him telling Buck he was the one he trusted most in the world when it came to his son is … something.

There is also a little parallel to be drawn between 2.17 when Shannon goes for ice cream with Christopher and Abuela and Eddie is all like, well, don’t come crying to me when he won’t sleep because sugar high and saying basically the same thing to Hen and Chimney in 3.02 when they ask about „Operation: Buck up Buck“ because Chris ate loads of pancakes.

Also Shannon in 2.07 said she needed Eddie to have her back and Eddie says he always did but Shannon disagrees (which might be a little how Buck felt with the lawsuit) and you know, Buck and him agreed to have each other’s backs just six episodes earlier.

- Buck and Lena:

Now, with Lena, despite her being most connected to Eddie, the first (and second) time we actually see her is in 3.01/3.02 through Buck, which connects the two from the get go.

Eddie then finds out she was at the pier in 3.02 (before meeting her) just like Buck (though he doesn’t know that) and then meets her in 3.03 and she spends the whole episode running around LA trying to find her Captain while injured, much like Buck is doing in the same episode.

I also mentioned in my meta-series how I think one of the reasons why Eddie likes Buck so much was that Buck wasn’t impressed by his military background like everyone else (or his looks, I mean, it was probably more about his looks tbh) and how when Buck started liking him it was really about Eddie and not whatever he had heard about him - yet Buck was / is still never afraid to call him out bullshit, much like Lena from moment one.

There is also the fact that Eddie goes to her for advice and she literally uses Buck’s locker (and will I ever stop laughing about the tape? Probably not, I think it was hilarious, okay?)?

Then of course we have Buck in 3.04 reacting quite similar to seeing her for the first time as he did with Eddie in 2.01, even saying basically the same thing.

- Buck and Ana

Now, Ana is an interesting case because we see her a total of four times and she is mentioned two more times throughout the show and each and every single moment is connected to Buck somehow and sometimes so very unsubtle to.

In „Fools“ we cut from Buck saying he likes being single to Eddie doing parent-teacher conference and yes, meeting some other teachers first but also Ana, showing us that while Buck is fine with being single - Eddie might not be. And then Eddie introduces himself as Eddie and Ana knows immediately this is short for Edmundo - unlike Buck in 2.01 who guessed Eduardo? Also, Carla’s „big blue eyes“ line which is a little clown-y, so take it with a grain of salt that it could connect us to Buck.

Then of course her next scene is Eddie getting in her face about Christopher being hurt. Later in the episode we see Buck reference this on a call, meaning either Carla or Eddie told Buck about it (I am leaning a little toward Carla making fun of Eddie in front of Buck and Eddie then having to come clean about all of it, because I cannot wrap my head about the idea of Eddie telling Buck about having a crush, I’m sorry.) (And will I ever be over Buck being so gleeful that Eddie will now be dating the teacher after all? Because boy was close to cackling which even if he was in love with Eddie at the time and therefore happy he wasn’t off the market - still quite rude for a best friend if you ask me! Like, sure, do that but in front of strangers?)

Her next scene is Eddie coming to apologise to her and she gives her speech about limitations - which we can of course connect to Buck and Eddie talking about Christopher and his limitations before that and then afterwards going skateboarding with them. (It does feel a little deliberate.)

And then of course we have „Eddie Begins“ and you guys, they could have very very easily have either Carla or Buck make a joke about Mrs. Flores and Eddie’s crush in the firehouse scene, but they didn’t! And then we do get to see her at the end where she has one whole line and Eddie barely looks at her and you know what happens? They have a child ask the same question Buck asked at the beginning about ever just wearing the medal (which sounded very not straight in its delivery, Mr Stark, what were you thinking about?), making us think of Buck. Like, it would have been enough to establish Eddie doesn’t feel like a hero if the question was asked only once - twice in the span of 45 minutes constitutes a callback, meaning we are supposed to think of the other scene and that means thinking about the other person that asked, which was Buck.

Is this … flirting

Now, some of these are quite ambiguous but there are several scenes that imply they consider each other attractive or feel like flirting and here they are:

- 2.01: „I think I’ve seen this in porn before“

Now, we all know Buck’s initial dislike of Eddie was about Eddie being to good at the job and Buck being afraid of being replaced, but considering one of the first things we hear about Eddie is Hen saying that boy is so fine it transcends sexualities and considering they talked about the calendar which chooses them based on hotness just before and then all the references to the calendar throughout, it stands to reason that Buck considers Eddie attractive.

Also their whole conversation during the gym scene, what was any of that? I mean, Buck thinks the pictures of Eddie are professionally done which means he thinks they are good which means, yes, Buck thinks Eddie looks good in those!

Plus the whole scene is riddled with (sexual) tension. From Buck constantly increasing the weight he is lifting, while throwing looks at Eddie as if double checking that he sees he could bench press him and the way he gets in Eddie’s face to Eddie’s veiled barbs about the girlfriend breaking up with him and doing the same thing as a firefighter but he was getting shot at. I mean, what was that if not the beginning of a porno? (And here we have our first parallel between Buck and Eddie as we find out later because Eddie, too, has been left by a woman. Now the real question would be does he consider them broken up?

Not to mention that when Bobby tells him at the end of the episode that he wasn’t chosen Buck immediately assumes Eddie was and also is so very happy for his new friend, because he thinks he’s hot (right?).

- 2.04: „Hearteyes, motherforker“

In 2.08 Buck has a conversation with Chimney about his pick up technique and well, did anyone in production watch this episode because when Buddie walks away from tailpipe-girl-emergency he literally does everything he described.

Also Maddie says the words „Does this man crush on Eddie mean you are finally over Abby?“ to Buck and his only reaction is „Cute.“ meaning one) Maddie has teased him about his Eddie gushing before and two) maybe Buck does have a bit of a crush?

- 2.06: „Bucky Barnes murder strut - 911 edition“

Again with the Maddie and Buck scenes!

Basically what happened was Maddie talked about how cute Chimney was but Buck assumed she meant Eddie because apparently if someone says cute, Buck thinks Eddie. This is just a fact, okay?

- 2.14: „‚It’s a miracle… bro #nohomo’“

Like my name for the episode already says, there is this scene were Buck and Eddie stand next to each other and Eddie says „That was incredible!“ and Buck who is already standing in Eddie’s space leans in further to basically whisper the words „It’s a miracle.“ into Eddie’s ears and then lean back a little and I am not sure if that wouldn’t fit better with Subtext but also Buck looks at Eddie like he wants to eat him alive and Eddie looks like he would let him and say thank you after while still embarrassed because he cries during sex.

You know, acting.

- 3.04 „discount!Buck in the house!“

Listen, I am convinced this is all Ryan considering the reaction of Kenny / Chimney and Aisha / Hen but that doesn’t change the fact that they used a take which had Eddie stare at Oliver / Buck’s butt the whole time and I mean, what horrible things happened in the other takes that made production choose this one unless they want us to see Eddie looking at Buck’s butt while Chimney and Hen stand around looking amused?

- 3.09: „#tw: mild adult themes & implied sexual content / #pwp - porn without porn“

Listen, from the moment Buck says „Cause you would prefer working it out in the ring?“ and then does this dorky thing with his arms while Eddie smirks into his beer about how he fought in a cage not fenced in (which, I’m a little unclear on the distinction I think, but I am nitpicky af so who am I to judge? Probably just stuff getting lost in translation) that whole scene changes vibes, going from apologising to teasing. And I think it’s very interesting that this is when Buck chooses to come closer (and then keep coming closer until he is right in Eddie’s personal space while touching his belt which we all learned by now means he is thinking about sex) and they have this whole conversation about who could take who which happens in sort of half sentences and does not feel like they are talking about fighting each other at all.

I mean, Buck keep coming closer, while Eddie stands there rooted to his spot, leaning against the bar, smirking, like every hot guy in a bar ever who knows one smile and a bit of smolder and they will come to him (which Buck does, playing right into it, I mean, come on, bro, weren’t you once a serial dater? How do you not know how to play hard to get?) and holding the beer (you know, phallic shaped obj- okay, I’ll stop here, it’s a reach), occasionally drinking, like maybe he tries to draw attention to somewhere or he has a very dry throat and honestly: this is how porn starts!

I don’t think my writing (or anyone’s writing really, not that ya’ll aren’t talented af) can properly express how very not platonic and innuendo-heavy this scene felt.

- 3.13: „‚Bro, what if I flirted with you in a bowling alley while out on a call?‘ - ‚Bro, what if I invited you out to lunch after telling a friend to say I love you before it’s too late?‘ - ‚BRO 😍‘“

Again, the title gives everything away but like so many scenes between these boys that moment at the bowling alley when Buck channels Arnie and Eddie is all: you’re a dork and also wrong! and then later when Eddie invites Buck to get lunch (which is sort of Eddie’s thing, remember 2.01?) after earlier telling Chimney to tell Maddie he loves her if he has a chance because he might regret it. And to really drive the point home or maybe make it in the first place, after Eddie asks Buck - and only Buck - to have lunch with him, Buck then declines because of a little blood (Evan, come one, you’ve seen worse! I know I have!) - only for Chimney to consider this the push he needed to invite Maddie for dinner so he can tell her he loves her.

So, you know, platonic.

- 3.16: „The rope was a metaphor after all“

I mean, what was that scene in the locker even with Eddie leaning against the doorway all cheeky and grinning like: yeah, come hang out with me! - obviously it was about Buck never saying yes to babysit a group of nine-year olds when he could be out drinking (as someone who works with kids, I approve), but yeah, that’s not what it felt like? So unless ya’ll cannot act anymore this was deliberately a bit over the top and ambiguous.

Jealousy

Now, no good ship works without jealousy and neither does Buddie so here are some examples of Buddie being jealous.

- 2.06: „Bucky Barnes murder strut - 911 edition“

Now, your probably saying: Bucky Barnes murder strut? That’s a tall order! But damn, Ryan nailed that, okay? Listen, we’ve seen Eddie walk out of uniform several times at this point and NEVER before and never after has he struted this predatory. Eddie walks tall and military, you know, the way he stands, Eddie doesn’t strut!

Yet, here he does! And what I love about this scene is that we see him in the background while Bobby talks to Taylor, working out with no care in the world - and then Buck comes over and flirts with her, suddenly Eddie feels the need to be part of the conversation?

And he doesn’t even wait until he is standing next to them to talk, he calls over while still sitting on the lifting things.

So yeah, that one is him being jealous.

- 2.10: „It’s all about ‚not my business‘“

- Now 2.10 is a great episode for Buddie and in part it is due to Buck’s facial expressions in the background and out of focus of the camera when Shannon comes to the station.

I mean, Oliver always plays Buck very intense and expressive and with his whole face but that was a bit much, you’d think he just found out Eddie broke a vow of chastity or had an affair while being married (which technically is what Buck compares it to later so kinda makes sense he looks like that but also doesn’t, Buckeroo, what’s the big deal? Did Eddie show up at your doorstep a week earlier telling you what a punk ass bitch his wife was, or…?)

- 2.17: „*fridges female character for man pain* Haha, we’re so random!“

„Talk to Bobby. Maybe he can get you guys a discount.“: There is a point to be made about Buck just not liking Shannon considering everything he knows about her and has heard about her, the same way Eddie doesn’t Abby, but still. This scene and this line, Buck does not sound happy for Eddie or truly interested and yeah, it’s off and it seems jealous.

- 3.04 „discount!Buck in the house!“

It’s actually not just my interpretation, it’s actually - between the similarities to 2.01 and everything that happens after with the lawsuit and how Buck explains himself - literal text that Buck was jealous here with Lena. So there!

- 3.09: „#tw: mild adult themes & implied sexual content / #pwp - porn without porn“

Tim Minear please send me over some scripts or have someone call me and explain what they were going for with the „You had sex with your therapist?“-scene because Eddie was so huffy and offended and I need to know!

- 3.12: „There’s a horse loose in a hos… school“

Buck sounds awfully gleeful Eddie will probably not date Christopher’s teacher and while that might just be him making fun of his best friend being so very overprotective and short tempered when it comes to his son (Mr. Control has left the building!), still, it reads a little like jealousy over some unknown pretty woman Chris might have mentioned some time and Carla probably described in great detail when she told Buck all about Eddie losing his cool!

- 3.17: „LegsTM“

It’s technically not really a jealous moment because it’s not Eddie being jealous but Buck simply refusing to mention his ex-girlfriend here, but considering 3.18 and also and most importantly the fact that there are only two other people in the truck, one being an unknown firefighter driving the truck and the other Bobby, who very much knows how Buck was supposed to take a hot air balloon ride with Abby, for who but Eddie was Buck concealing her identity for because Bobby already knows?

There really is only Eddie left, who probably figures out what Buck was about as well because bro may not be Buck and his out of the box thinking smart but he is fucking smart and he can figure shit out as well! Yet Buck refuses to mention Abby’s name and for what? So he can pretend Bobby and Eddie don’t know he is still bitter about her? I mean, fucking hell, send over the motherforking scripts, Minear, I am done with you!

- 3.18: „Traincrash? More like train WRECK? *cries*“

While I think Eddie is being more protective than jealous here, he is awfully involved and he is uncharacteristically out of control and emotional here and I wanna know why? Does Abby being back remind you of Shannon? Is it jealousy? WHAT IS GOING ON??? WHY YOU SO MAD, ARMY BOY???

Subtext

Now, I am first gonna talk about Subtext things in general like clothing choices, music and cuts between scenes and I am gonna be honest, I probably missed quite a few!

- One of my favourite is that while Buck wears the same colours in 3.03 as Shannon does in 2.07, Eddie wears the same exact shirt - and considering the fact that Ryan got buff between Season 2 and 3 that was deliberate, someone bought that shirt again because we are supposed to connect these scenes with each other!

- As I wrote before in 2.10 we can see Buck and his reaction out of focus when Shannon comes to the firehouse to talk to Eddie and ya know, why?

- Tim Minear himself said the elf in 2.10 was an easter egg for us Buddie shippers and he also said we can make out of the fountain in the background what we want, so there, Buddie is talking about Shannon and Eddie having sex and how much that messes shit up while a fountain shoots water in the background and yes, that is an innuendo and subtext and I hate it a little.

- 2.13 has this hospital scene I love a lot and you know what? Buddie is basically dressed the same, because the subtext of this scene is these two are alike and connected and they GET EACH OTHER.

- Another scene I really love is in 3.01 when Buck comes in for the surprise party because not only does he not hug his sister or Athene but runs up to Eddie first, Bobby actually shoves Eddie at Buck so he is the first person Buck hugs (and then the hug itself, what was that? The way they hold onto each other for a moment just looking while their hips are still touching?! Is that how you two hug because I want in!).

- Also they are dressed basically the same, should we discuss this as well?

- And still in 3.01 when Buck thanks Bobby and they talk and Bobby tells Buck he’ll find someone better and then asks him if he is doing okay, the first person the show cuts to is - nope, not Evan Buckley’s sister who is also there but his best friend, Eddie! Jup!

- And still in 3.01 when the firefam talks about helping Buck in the firehouse, Eddie first acts dismissive but the scene ends with Bobby saying Buck has them even though he may not believe that right now and half of that is said while the camera is on Eddie’s face who looks thoughtful - only to cut from them to Maddie and Josh discussing the same thing and mainly how Maddie doesn’t know how to help Buck and what he needs from her. Which you know, the episode ends with Eddie basically giving Buck a swift kick in the butt like she though he might need (and then 3.03 has Eddie basically telling Buck everything is gonna be okay, so we see Maddie talking about helping Buck but never see her doing it and instead we get two scenes of Eddie being there for Buck and also no Maddie in relation to the lawsuit but an extreme focus on Eddie? Writers, I see you and you aren’t wrong!)

- Also worth another mention is the cut between Madney talking about children, saying Buck didn’t have any either - to Eddie waking up Buck so he can babysit Christopher and specifically calling Buck „his Buck“ to make us think on their relationship and let us know how close they are and also to tell us to not trusts everything Maddie says about her brother because she gets shit wrong.

- In 3.03 after Buck tells Eddie he lost Christopher and then Eddie sees Christopher and rushes over and and Buck collapses and while Eddie holds Chris after he checked for injuries and Chim and Hen and Bobby hold Buck and Bobby asks Buck if he is okay, well, this whole time Buck is staring at Chris and Eddie and Eddie is staring back at him and Bobby, if you wanna know about me, gotta tell you, I am not okay?!

- And then we have the loft scene and yeah, okay, this deserves 5000 words of his own, from the fact that they played „Photograph“ by Ed Sheeran which includes lyrics about how they will never be alone and how loving can heal and mend your soul and the fucking song ends on the words „Wait for me to come home“ just as Eddie knocks and brings Christopher over and tells Buck there is no one he trusts more with Christopher than Buck and I am sorry, what are we supposed to think here? This show is from the US, these people speak english, it’s not like these lyrics leave much room for interpretation!

Not to mention the whole monologue Buck did about being lost and not knowing how to get from where you want to be to where you need to be before Eddie showed up and then talking about how a few choice words can sometimes be the life raft one needs to get home and how we are all just searching for someone to see us? I love Maddie and I love the Buckley siblings, but damn, she’s not the one he has been searching for!

(And I keep bringing up Maddie here because as his sister she is the person Buck could feel closest to and should care about the most and be cared about the most by and yet all canon evidence points to Eddie being that person! Also she is the person next to Eddie Buck has the most scenes outside the firehouse with.)

- This one is a bit of a stretch but Buck looks very uncomfortable during the whole deposition in 3.05 but he looks everyone in the eyes until the lawyer mentions Shannon and suddenly his lap is so much more interesting and yes, after is when all of them get asked the really hurtful question but still, this is when Buck stops being despondent and realises, fuck, I went a bit to far

- Someone please find for me where the director talked about purposely framing them as romantic in the apology scene because I cannot find the post for the life of me, but never the less: In 3.06 during the apology, in the beginning of the scene we see Buddie from quite a distance and Eddie has his back turned toward Buck and there is a column in the shot to visually indicate the divide and yeah, the whole framing is quite something and the way the camera angle goes from far away making it seem like unbridgeable distance cutting to closer shots and how we slowly see alongside the words hey, they aren’t actually that far apart, like yeah, this scene was something else!

- Not a direct cut but during therapy Eddie talks about how he wants to be at home with Chris because he is the one good thing he has going for him and the one thing he gets enjoyment out of (because he is so fucking depressed and I cry), yet when we later see Chris and Eddie together it is neither in Eddie’s house nor are they alone, nope Buck is there as well, meaning Buck is considered a part of that one thing even if he wasn’t explicitly mentioned!

- During 3.10 when they take the photo with all of them Buck is grouped between Madney and the Diaz family, like right between and not just next to them. Also earlier when the eat Buck sits next to Christopher who sits next to Eddie and therefore on the opposite side of his sister and her boyfriend.

- Yes, they were probably amused by the meddling mom asking then „Are you boys single?“ in 3.11 but come on! They look at each other and smirk? For real? Hand over the script, Timbo!

- Also as mentioned before the fact that when Chim and Eddie talk about family and the 118 being the family they choose the camera is on Albert, Buck and Christopher, no one else is in the shot. And of course the song that is playing here, another song about home.

- The callback to Buck in 3.12 of Ana immediately guessing Eddie is short for Edmundo unlike Buck as well as Carla saying blue eyes (which Buck has) is also Subtext.

- Said it before but: the scene in 3.13 when they arrive at the hospital and Eddie asks Buck out to eat and then Buck changes his mind but Chimney runs off to call his girlfriend because he wants to have dinner so he can tell her he loves her like Eddie told him to do at the beginning of the episode is … interesting.

- I already explained why I think Shannon wasn’t in that many scenes in the video in 3.15 yet Buck was in most of them but it bears repeating. Also again it’s subtext that Buck is part of Eddie’s family and Buck is very important to Eddie and Eddie loves Buck.

- Also the question about the medal in 3.15 and the little boy at the end repeating the question, sorry, were we not supposed to think of Buck here, Tim???

- Also just in general 3.15 focuses very very heavily on Buck and Buck’s reaction - much like 3.18 later does with Eddie. All the non-Eddie scenes feature Buck and Buck freaking out about Eddie potentially dying and Buck making plans and being frantic and the driving force of hope cause homeboy cannot even for a second entertain any thoughts on Eddie’s passing.

- The rope metaphor in 3.15 / 3.16 is of course also subtext but I already explained that one and don’t have anything to add really.

- This one is a little bit of a stretch but I do think there is a reason Eddie was the first one to be taken out of the equation in 3.16 and because of his son and not a love interest.

- Also the pool playing scene in 3.16 there visually we see Eddie and Buck together in nearly all shots, there are two shots of Eddie without Buck in it but not a single one of Buck without Eddie in it and considering camera angles and actors literally being told were to stand it is deliberate that Buck is only seen with Eddie by his side here.

- I’m repeating a lot of things here but Buck refuses to say Abby’s name in 3.17 even though Bobby clearly knows who he is talking about.

- „No. He stopped waiting for me a long time ago.“ cuts to „Summer Camp?“ I mean sorry, what were we supposed to think here? Because this does imply he really did stop waiting because now he has Christopher and Eddie!

- Not to mention it sort of hammers home what I wrote before how Abby is dating a single father and Buck is sort of dating a single father.

- Also 3.18 puts a lot of focus in general on Eddie and his reaction to everything when say, Bobby, who actually knows Abby and was there for the relationship would have made more sense - unless they are pushing an agenda here!

The first person we have Abby interacting with at the traincrash is Eddie and then Buck joins them and the scene literally goes: Eddie *talking to Abby* > cut to Buck, coming closer > Buck: „Abby?“ > cut to both Abby and *Eddie* > Abby: „Buck?“ while the camera is still on her and Eddie > cut to just Eddie’s face having a realisation > cut to Buck

So sorry, why do we focus so much on Eddie here, Mrs. Lynch? Is there a particular reason, oh director, who art also directed 3.01 and which has also loads of Buddie subtext?

There is also Eddie coming to stand visually between Abby and Buck when Sam is loaded into the ambulance as if he is physically putting himself between them and then Buck running back toward the traincrash and Eddie following him after and all the shots of them and Christopher during the party together and once again having Bobby asking Buck if he is okay visually connected to Eddie, though in reverse this time because the scene goes from Eddie and Chris having fun to Buck and Bobby talking. (And should we talk about how this is the first time Buck actually answers the question because finally he has an answer or are we thinking about that right before sleep today when it’s easier to cry?)

- Also very interesting subtext is the fact that Buck and Eddie wear nearly the exact same colour and a similar cut pullover when Buck talks to Abby at the end and when Eddie says goodbye to Christopher and I mean, thematically both scenes are about saying good bye and letting someone go? But also it connects Buddie with each other and connects these scenes, which Idc, I probably wouldn’t have done without the clothes?

Not sold seperatly

- Also subtext / visual thing is the fact that Buddie is basically always with and next to each other at the firehouse and on calls (and before anyone says: well, they are partners, Hen and Chim aren’t as much), and that is a long list so I am just giving examples: in 2.05 they sit next to each other at the table while in 2.06 they sit next to each other on the couch and in 3.08 they sit next to each other at the table again and then we have 2.02 standing outside and 2.04 walking away from the scene together and Eddie handing Buck a weapon in 3.17 and walking toward the ambulance together in 3.13 and several other times, the point is there are a shit ton of scenes of them being right next to each other in case you thought that was a fanfic thing!

„The Buck lens“ / „The Eddie lens“

I’m pretty sure there is an actual technical term for what I am trying to describe here but basically there are several instances where we see Eddie the way Buck does, meaning while the scene shows us Eddie doing something the focus is on Buck watching this. Sort of POV but not quite I guess? Also the reverse is true as well, even if those scene aren’t as pronounced!

- Let’s talk about 2.01 once again as we have done for most of this meta and finally, finally look at Eddie’s first scene which we all know is sort of gay and the first time we see Ryan shirtless because Tim accidentally wrote a certain quota of shirtless scenes he needed to do into Ryan’s contract and he needed to get started on those right away.

Also please remember while we as well as the core four are watching Eddie get dressed „Watta man“ plays in the background, which, considering we are introduced to Eddie through Buck’s point of view might be the song playing in his head here? Anyways, back to the topic at hand and how we as the viewers don’t see Eddie until Buck turns around and sees him as well. Which is significant because several times through the conversation between Buck, Hen, Bobby and Chimney we see the locker room in the background so they could have filmed that differently.

Instead they had Chim, who stands off centre, noticing something while Buck banters with Bobby about how he will get to represent the 118 in the calendar, then the camera changes angle so we no longer stand between Bobby and Chimney but rather behind Buck, making him centre stage and putting a focus on his reaction to Eddie. In this scene we have Buck framed by two people commenting on Eddie’s attractiveness. Now we don’t get to see Eddie until we have gotten all reactions of the core four to him, with special attention to Buck, both in filming and text with everyone taking a jab at Buck before walking over to introduce themselves to Eddie which leaves Buck alone, watching.

(Now keep in mind this scene also has Hen basically say Eddie is so hot it transcends sexualities while „Whatta man“ plays as Buck slowly turns around and Idk, mate, that does seem shippy to me.)

- Another scene that focuses very heavily on Buck is when Eddie rushes and hugs Chris at the end of 2.03. In fact for most of the scene we see Buck in the car watching them.

- Also, the hospital scene in 2.04 and how once again we see Eddie interact with Chris while Eddie watches them because fuck knows why.

- Similar to the Buck lens we have 3.10 where Eddie talks to Hen about Chris while the two (or rather Eddie since he sits at the centre) watch Buck play with Chris and Danny. This is significant because Buck is also placed in the middle, putting him opposite Eddie and also making him the focus of the camera for most shots when the scene was about Christopher and Eddie feeling guilty. Huh, we say!

- Something similar happens in 3.11, which is the next episode several months removed when Eddie talks to Chimney about the 118 being their family and while this time Chris is the one sitting in the front, Buck once again is in the middle and also in focus in a scene shot from Eddie’s POV.

Other people reacting to them / commenting on them

Now, I am not sure if this is really Subtext but who knows where else it fits in? (This is a rhetorical question, only my opinion counts around here while I write!) So It goes here! And I think the title is self-explanatory enough.

- I’m a little on the fence on the Bobby looks because - no offence to Peter Krause - he doesn’t have that many facial expressions in general, but yeah, at the mechanics Buck watches Eddie and Bobby watches Buck.

- Our first real one of those scene is the truly savage tía Pepa who is a woman after my own heart because she says the mean shit to your face and the nice things behind your back because she loves you but she loves vibe checking egos more! And well, she is understandably confused by Buck’s being there at the hospital and asks Eddie who that is and why he is here and gives one of the best lines of the show by being so sarcastic, because oh, you work together? Damn, wouldn’t have guessed from the fact that both of you wear LAFD t-shirts! (I love her!)

- In the same episode Maddie comments on Buck’s boycrush on Eddie and while I am unsure whether that is supposed to make it sound less gay or it’s Maddie saying: Bro, you sound 12! but oh well! It’s a comment on them!

- I loath a little to include the elf in 2.10 because Tim has said that was an easter egg for Buddie shippers and a tongue in cheek thing but yeah.

- Also Bobby watches the whole „It’s a miracle“ exchange in 2.14 with that look.

- In 2.18 we get some text on the screen when they help instagram girl about how hot the both of them are and also how THEY should be dating which I’m putting into the same box as 2.10.

- The fact that Bobby shoves Eddie at Buck in 3.01, like sorry, why was it so relevant that this is the first hug?

- When Eddie / Ryan stared at Buck’s / Oliver’s ass in 3.04 we see Hen and Chimney grin about it.

- I know I have said myself that Maddie’s reaction in 3.08 was due to the fact that she just said: can ya’ll stop gossiping - and Chim and Buck were like: sure thing! and then started gossiping but still.

- There is Buddie flirting at the bowling alley in 3.13 and once again Bobby gives them the look and yeah.

- In 3.15 everyone seems very worried about Buck especially and they keep reassuring as if he were Eddie’s next of kin.

- Again a Bobby look I am unsure of but in 3.17 we see him giving them the look in the truck and yeah.

Other people’s heartache

Now, as I’ve said in the beginning, I didn’t wanna just include my perspective on Buddie, so I asked a few other people about this and while this isn’t a representative statistical number it’s still interesting, right?

(Also originally this Guide was organised by episode and I would have included the comments when the things came up but alas that didn’t work and I think I turned a little grey because of that)

@buckleysbabe:

When i first watched 9-1-1, I had no idea that Buddie existed (i hadn’t been on tumblr a lot at the time so I hadn’t seen gifs or anything) and when i started s2 I really thought they were just best friends, but then 2x10 and the ”you two have an adorable son” scene happened and Buck’s ”thank you” and the shy smile AND I WAS ON BOARD!! That was really the first moment, then I got the confirmation after 3x03 and the scene where Buck sees Eddie in the tsunami scenery, and then the whole Eddie saying theres nobody in this world....like in that moment I felt like they were seriously in love 😍❤️

About the 2x10: that scene has so many things. Like the water fountain in the back, Chris in the scene with them (like they are a family), then the elf saying what she said, Buck being for a second like ”huh?” and then you see the light bulb going on when he’s like ”ohhhhhhhh yeah” and then he says thank you 😍😍😍 saying HE IS CHRIS’S COPARENT. AND THEN THE SHY SMILE

@theleftboobgrabber

Right off the bat I thought they had chemistry but I think the entirety of 2×04 is when I genuinely started shipping it. Like.... the constant heart eyes, the support, Buck trying so hard to be there for Eddie and Eddie absolutely never questioning it, the look Buck gives Eddie at the fire house was absolute fire (when Bobby tells Eddie Buck asked for Chris to stay with them) like Eddie's like you did this for me??? And Buck has just this massive Big Buck Energy from where he's sitting like "get used to it" and I remember absolutely loosing my mind that Bobby got the hug and not Buck at the end of the scene like in what universe??? And yeah the rest of the episode is just the same but that feeling of 'that's the wrong man you're hugging' was the tipping point

@emotionalsupportfirefam

Okay so mine was kinda two moments?1) when Buck took Eddie to Chris' school after the earthquake and we see his reaction to Eddie's joy and relief as he holds Christopher and then spends the next episode trying to find ways to help Eddie with finding a suitable caregiver/ support for Chris and 2) the fact the took them whole of five minutes to go from 'rivals' to the 'dynamic duo' after the grenade call.

@evaneddie

Honestly? Literally every scene they have is romantically coded. The first scene of them, with Eddie being shirtless and us seeing it from Buck's perspective with „Whatta Man“ playing? That's subtext.

You can have my back any day? Yo.

The scene when the elf Blair(e) said they have an adorable son and Buck just said thank you instead of correcting her before he literally skipped away?

Eddie showing up at Buck's apartment and Buck not even questioning how he got in?

The way Buck is like a second father to Chris and protects him like one in the tsunami?

"THERE'S NOBODY IN THIS WORLD I TRUST WITH MY SON MORE THAN YOU"?! REALLY EDDIE? WHAT ABOUT LITERALLY ANY OF YOUR FAMILY? OR CARLA? Baby, that's love.

THE HALLOWEEN HUG?!

THE KITCHEN SCENE, THE WHOLE SEXUAL TENSION IN THAT SCENE?! BUCK'S HAND ON HIS BELT, THE GLANCES, "I'D STILL TAKE YOU", ON THE COUCH EDDIE LOOKS TO BUCK'S LAP, LIKE COME ON!

"You boys single?" *Looks at each other*

"This is Eddie's house, I'm not really a guest"

Buck's breakdown when he lost Eddie under 40 feet of mud. That was not the breakdown of losing a friend, that was the breakdown on losing someone you love. There's a meta I saw once literally just for this scene alone, the way Buck dug so desperately at the mud with his bare hands, the screams of heartbreak, the way he collapsed into Bobby, the pure dissociation as Bobby was giving instructions later on, Eddie's memories filled mostly with Christopher and Buck. Sure, the others were there, but, it was FILLED with Buck and Chris.

Then the ending scene of the season?! What was he trying to do with the necklaces? Thrusting his hips towards Eddie, hitting him in the face, then that soft touch on his face?

@adamngoodbuck

Hey! Nice question and for me really easy to answer. I started watching the show back in 2018 when it first aired but I was a casual viewer. Very casual. So casual I actually watched everything up to 2x10 and then I thought it was the season finale so I forgot about it. And then season 3 started. And nothing made sense. So I checked and welp, I had to catch up. And I did and something started brewing inside of me. I wasn't part of the fandom yet. And then. The THE SEARCHERS happened. And that scene. The there's nobody in this world I trust with my son more than you scene. My icon scene. And I was done. Hook, line and sinker.

@the-family-we-choose-118

My main ones were all the big ones: the kitchen scene, the end of 3x03, the Christmas episode one where Buck is helping Danny and Chris make gingerbread houses and then plans a whole party for the firefam, Buck clawing at the ground in 3x15, Eddie interrupting Taylor Kelly when she came to the station to do the documentary in Dosed, the fact that Eddie was introduced from Buck's POV with „Whatta Man“, the entire earthquake episode where Buck is reassuring Eddie his kid is okay and then drives him to get his kid later on, and the scene where Buck introduces Eddie to Carla in (I'm pretty sure it's) the same episode where Maddie asks him if his boy crush on Eddie means he's over Abby (that was my main one). And I was fully convinced when Eddie walked in Buck's apartment in the beginning of S3 and ripped his blankets off him and was so sure he doesn't sleep naked/wouldn't have anybody over.

And the „official“ part of the guide is done but I do wanna say something else real quick which is:

You have just read about 20.000 words I painstakingly wrote over the course of several weeks and while I get that meta is even more harrowing to reblog than gifsets or fics because meta involves so much opinion and interpretation and what if you disagree with parts of it?

Well, again, I invested a lot of time in this and also: IF YOU DISAGREE TELL ME!!! TELL ME IN THE REBLOG OR IN THE TAGS!!! Because different to fics and gifsets meta is a dialog and I can’t have a dialog unless people talk to me! I’m not here to lecture you on right or wrong, I am here to tell you: okay, this is how the scene looks from my point of view, what do you say? So honestly, please consider liking and reblogging and tagging and maybe talking a little about it with me, because screaming into the void is so very boring

(And also in general: reblog reblog reblog! All these funny posts you see on buzzfeed and instagram screenshoted from tumblr? Half of them were made great by reblogs and all of them were noticed by these sites because of reblogs)

Anyways, before I (REALLY) let you go it would be hypocritical now to not talk about some people who inspired some of this (but ya’ll have to understand I cannot talk about everyone)!

I can however say these four especially helped me write this:

- @diggorypuff , who I have never talked to but whose posts about interesting parallels actually sort of got me into thinking deeper about this show: (X)

- @ingu, who fairly recently did a series of gifsets on Buddie and how Buck is framed as Eddie’s love interest which gave me life: (X)

- @matan4il, who is such an amazing friend and does the most concice and well thought out metas on Buddie without having to watch the show a million times like other people we shall not name have to (me, I am talking about me). Find her buddie metas here: (X)

- And most importantly my girl, my babe, my love, @chimbuckleys who is the voice of reason between us and always lets me rant about stuff and was the sounding board for this and so much else I have written - I couldn’t do this without you! (ALSO I AM GOING TO BED NOW, BABE!!!)

AND DEAR READER, you made it! Now go have a blessed day and plant some trees because earth is dying and we with it!

#buddie #evan buckley #eddie diaz #buddie meta #eddie meta #buck meta #911 meta #911 #911 fox #textpost #meta #holy shit I made it but also I think this is actually quite literally too long to be posted at once and I cry?????#FUCK #my meta #the big buddie for dummies guide

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johnbroutledge · 3 years

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I started answering on the post but Tumblr ate it twice so here's hoping third time is the charm. Also, this turned into an essay, bc I really care for you and wanted to get it all in.

So, as to the drabble "flopping"; I feel you, it always hurts when that happens. But there's a few factors to consider, which is to say stuff outside of your control going on. The first being: Tumblr's not the best place for posting fic. It used to be pretty good, but those days are past; ironically the tagging system improving contributed to that. Before people had to reblog or like posts to find/be able to find later. Now they can actually search for it. The second is naturally that the nsfw ban scared a lot of writers off and people stopped feeling this place for fic so much (not to mention the rise of discourse also did that).

The next is simply, as ever, timing. I used to work in community management (long story) so I am a nerd that looks into the analytics and: https://miraculousfanworks.tumblr.com/post/627913410660663296/attract-those-readers-when-to-post-on-ao3#:~:text=How%20many%20stories%20were%20in,from%2012pm%20to%205pm%20PST. Despite it being an AO3 reason, I've found it holds true for Tumblr too, when I link my fic. Late in the day on humpday just means less traffic overall.

And finally, and this is the painful bit: it's a small fandom. Especially when you compare it to 911 which I think you likely are. I've been suffering from the same myself lately, I've posted what feels like some personal best fic............for teeny fandoms and niche pairings and ten people. Add to that that the show is both off season rn, and, the real kicker, is not a weekly airer. You've noticed how the weekly episode of 911 then has a corresponding uptick of making and consuming of fanworks. Simply put, there's new content so there's new material to work with and people are going "huh that was a cliffhanger, let's soothe it with fic". OBX is netflix and thus generally has a big burst of creation around it dropping then a longish tail and then little radio noise until then. The Witcher is a good comparison, but has two factors going for it: related media (books and video games) and big name stars. OBX is, basically, a lil kayak doing its best. But there's simply not as many people who consume fanwork for it.

Now love, and writing, is never wasted! Every word is a gift you give yourself and your skills. But I wanted to give you a sort of "cold logic" of why that reaction might be what it is, COMPLETELY separate from your actual work or the quality of it you may perceive.

Which was a very long winded way of saying: our reward based ape brains love the numbers. But the numbers come from lots of places. What matters, and what we can't quantify, is how much people loved it. The people creeping on your page and rereading it for the sixth time right now. The ones that messages it to friends. The ones that will think about it, out of the blue for ages. Maybe years. There's no counter for that. Keep creating <3

This might be the most helpful thing anyone could’ve said to me. It’s hard for me to not equate “success” or interaction to my self worth and my skill and I needed like logical factual reasons why it may not be doing well. I knew all along it’s a tiny fandom and I’ve seen with gifsets that interaction isn’t great rn even if you have 8634346323 followers, but idk, I just. I feel like a little kid bringing macaroni art to her mom and hoping she loves it. I was so proud of putting words on paper and like, was immediately like why is no one here to see it. And historically I’m awful to myself anyway, a thing thats exacerbated by like past trauma and shit so. And you’re right, I was kind of I guess thinking 911 numbers in my head and that’s not logical either.

I love this fandom and I haven’t been so inspired by a fandom in a long time so I’m gonna keep writing, if for no reason than I just want to. But I’d be lying if I told you the lack of interaction isn’t gonna be hard for me every single time too. Because that’s just how my shitty brain works I live with one finger on the self destruct button at all times.

Thank you so much for sending this, it really did help. Might fuck around and post the fic to ao3 or something 👀.

#nikki answers #meduseld #thank you thank you thank you #💗💗💗💗💗

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capricornsicle · 4 years

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I have a feeling your ask box and I are going to be familiar. You might be hot-taked out after that killer Satomi discourse. But whenever you’ve got it in you, I’d sure love to hear what you think about Kira and her Jeff-deemed-absolutely-necessary departure.

Oh, definitely. And I do love content, so...

Kira Yukimura was done so dirty by the writers and Jeffrey “I’m not racist I’ll prove it by arguing to poc calling me out for it on twitter” Davis. Her treatment was racist, tokenizing, and it wasn’t even high-brow racism. It was sloppy and lazy. If you’re gonna write all your characters of color off the show, commit to it. She went to the desert like 5 times before she stayed. Cowards.

Kira was only meant to be on the show for the Nogitsune storyline in 3b. However, fans liked her so much that, as with Theo in season 6, she was brought back for more episodes. The difference is that Cody Christian is white-passing and male and Arden Cho is not. Female characters don’t exist on Teen Wolf without a relationship to a male character. Hayden existed for Liam. Tracy existed for Theo. Melissa existed for Scott and Argent. Allison existed for Scott. Lydia, the female character with the most screentime of all of them, spent a lot of her time existing in relationship to Jackson, Stiles, Parrish (shudder), and other male main characters. Women on the show were reduced to love interests and mothers more often than not, and Kira was the same.

I loved her character. I loved her arc. I loved Arden Cho, who in real life is as sweet and kind as her character. I enjoyed her parents, both Noshiko, who’s surprisingly funny and a total badass, and Ken, who’s the most wholesome man in the universe. The only straight man we stan. I love him.

Anyways, Kira was getting a fun arc outside of being Scott’s girlfriend, with her parents and her powers and all, and then wham, white-passing boy shows up and no more main character status for Kira. Guess there wasn’t enough room to keep the only interesting plot line of all the ones happening in s5. Personally, I would have chosen Kira over the Marrish garbage fire of underage relationships, but that’s just me.

Then. The Skinwalkers. I could write a whole essay about them, but this is a Kira post, so I’ll limit it to her. At least Luther got sent to the moon for a reason. Kira got sent to the desert for “rEaSoNs”. There was no indication that her power was out of control, but every indication it wasn’t. She was growing and learning. Then, suddenly, she was “too powerful” so she had to go to the desert and disappear for a few episodes and then go back and forth for a while before they wrapped up sending Theo to the upside down or wherever he went and she could finally go... hang out with the people who we were told could help her control her power but who only threw spears at her and gave her a season finale ex machina. Then back to the desert with you!

You can tell something was going on backstage in her treatment. Arden Cho wasn’t informed she was being cut, she had to be told by fans. Her departure was carried out as swiftly as possible, and not for any real reason. Kira would have been tremendously helpful against the hunters and in a lot of later scenes, against the Ghost Riders (and let me remind everyone that KIRA WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD LYDIA ABOUT THE WILD HUNT), against pretty much anything. Immune to electrocution? Don’t help with the hunters who love electrocuting people. Sloppy writing through and through.

And what’s more is that Kira was cut just in time for the Scalia thing, which was so fucking rushed oh my GOD nothing has ever been less natural- this is a Kira post, calm down capsicle. Anyways, Kira got replaced as Scott’s love interest and not much else by a white girl, no hate on Malia or Shelley but much on the writers. I loved Malia and Kira’s friendship, and if anyone should have gotten with Malia, it should have been Kira. (The first time I saw Malia I wondered if we were getting another ambiguously brown character, actually, but no, just Georgian and well-tanned. But I bet not all my followers knew Tracy was played by a Chinese and Cherokee actor. Or that Nolan was played by a Mexican and Caxcan actor. Or that Theo was played by a Penobscot Native actor. The list goes on of white-passing POC who got to stay marginally longer than Black or brown characters.) The “Scott ends up with a white girl he has no chemistry with” threw me for many loops, especially after I was surprised to find myself liking Scira, even though I’m usually bored by straight relationships because of their one-sided focus and nonexistent chemistry. Kira got to be a character outside of Scott, and I liked their romance better for it, and then desert for a thousand years!

TLDR on the canon end of things is that Kira and Arden were done dirty by a group of powerful white men who wanted to tell a cishet white story.

Now, on the fandom end of things, I’m stepping into the real hot water. It’s safe to say that Kira’s story was sloppy and Arden didn’t deserve that ending, but it’s less safe to say that this fandom doesn’t treat her that well either. Here’s the most popular x Scott ships on Ao3, under the Teen Wolf tag with no other filters.

Scott and Allison. Scott and Stiles. Scott and Isaac. Then Scott and Kira, in dead last. Scott and Malia don’t even make the top ships list, probably because of how rushed and sloppy it was, but I digress.

People love Scott and Allison a lot, and I get that. I liked her too. I was also sad when she died. But, unlike a lot of sentiment I see in this fandom, I don’t think she should have been brought back to fight the beast in season 5 and get back with Scott. Not only do I think bringing characters back to life without very good reason and explanation (which they wouldn’t have, come on) cheapens their death, and that bringing characters back to life is weak storytelling in general, but let’s recall that Scira is still a thing in season 5. They’re still madly in love when Kira leaves. Allison should not have come back and love-triangled so Kira could be written off for a different white girl or so the massive amount of young white girls in the fandom who love Allison would be angry at Kira for breaking up their OTP. That would have been the one thing that could have made season 5 worse. (Well, they could have made Marrish a thing or killed Mason, but Jeff Davis thought about it and a shiver went down his spine because the ghost of Christmas future hears my name in its nightmares.)

Even if people aren’t “bring Allison back” campers, they largely ignore Kira’s entire existence. People who post gifsets and posts about Allison or Lydia don’t give anywhere near the same amount of attention to Kira. I see more Malia posts, actually. And while all of them had more runtime than Kira, none of them paired with Scott quite as perfectly, or had such strong independent storylines. Lydia almost did, but it kept petering out and she kept going back to main plot only. I see lots of appreciation posts for Allison and Lydia and Malia and the men, obviously, but NOTHING for Kira or Arden Cho. We all know what happened backstage because we read the same post in 2016 or whenever and then we all stopped talking about it.

Even the racism in this fandom skips Kira. Scott antis, I’m looking (controversially) at you. I’m glad Kira isn’t the subject of a bunch of obvious racism (as much as “bring Allison back!” makes it subtle), but not because she’s a forgotten side character. Kira made the main credit sequence! She has a sword! What else could you all POSSIBLY want?

And here’s where I burn at the stake: Kira was written off her own damn “look Fun Japanese mythology” storyline half the time so it could center around Stiles. A white boy. There were numerous issues with the mythology before that — “Oni” means demon, not “firefly samurai ninja”, and it refers to a similar mythology as the western “fae”, a large collection of creatures benevolent, malevolent, and in between, with different traits and origins. Kitsunes are meant to be red or white, not gold, and they’re foxes, not cats, animation team. “Nogitsune” refers to the malevolent class of “low” Kitsune, or “wild” Kitsune, who didn’t align themselves with the goddess Inari and do divine and pious work. There are many of them and the most they really do is harass people at shrines, not murder indiscriminately for funsies. They’re only malevolent in that they like doing bad deeds, not that they’re serial killers. And they’re not one of the usual 13 low Kitsune, two of which are bad of their own accord! (Spirit and Air. Google it!) They are meant to be dealt with by Inari-aligned high Kitsune, not your average tricky fox. Among other things.

So Stiles. Outside of the Kira storyline, he’s used in a lot of fandom discourse about racism and sexism. And queerbaiting. Y’all love a scrawny white boy. Anyways, Stiles gets possessed by the Nogitsune (that’s NOT how that works but okay Jeffrey) and suddenly s3 is about him. Kira’s not evil, now let’s look at Stiles being tired and messy and killing people. Dylan #1 did a great job playing that part, no hate on him, but the fact that a white boy became the main character in a Japanese (or Korean, if you’re Jeff, same thing) girl’s storyline is. Hmm. How do you call it? Blatant racism. And erasure. Which is racism. YIKES, Jeff. There is so much wrong with Stiles being the Nogitsune and controlling the Oni and his whole story (and oh my god the other guy who got possessed was also a white boy instead of a Japanese character played by the same actress Jesus fucking Christ). I’m not going into that, because that’s its own essay.

Anyways, because of how much this fandom loves Stiles, it’s easy to ignore how Kira and Japanese characters were treated. People project onto Stiles with glee. He’s white. He’s awkward. He’s (supposedly) not super attractive. (Yikes.) He’s ditzy and bouncy and all that fun stuff, but he also always saves the day. He got written off for most of 6b and he still saved the stupid day. And hey, dark!Stiles (let’s not get into calling him dark instead of Nogitsune that’s just too much wine we’d have to crack open to say it) is a fun trope and people like posting and creating about him. Except that he’s the white boy who took Kira’s storyline. Her independent story about Kitsune and the like was all given over to him, not just by the show, but by the fandom. So now every post about Kitsune is a Stiles post, even if it started with Kira. And because it’s Stiles, and this fandom loves him, and is easily offended by people leaning too hard on the glass house around them and him, Kira gets forgotten and swept aside. Everyone would rather talk about Stiles. Who is incapable of bad. Or cultural appropriation. But if you attack him you’re being ableist because he has ADHD. This is why I relate to Nolan for anxiety feels instead.

TLDR on the fandom end, y’all don’t treat Kira better than the show did. I see a few posts here and there from some dedicated users — typically the same people posting about Boyd, Deaton, Morrell, yeah that’s it I’m the only one posting about Kali. (Un-fun fact: Kali was not played by an Indian actor, but by a half-Black actor. Jeff Davis, when called out on twitter, said “wow ok idiots we tried to find an Indian actress but it was hard actually SUPER hard so shut up and stop telling me how to write MY show”, which is paraphrasing with intent to make fun, but exactly what he said.) Y’all who know about Arden and Kira should diversify your blogs to include more POC, especially ones where the actor AND character were rudely sidelined for vague white people reasons. Post gifs of Kira along with Allison, Lydia, and Malia. Post ship stuff of Scira too. Post about kitsunes, the origin story of the Nogitsune, when you post about the white boy who became the main character of that arc. Call the show out. Call the fandom out. Stop making every bit and piece of her story about Czechoslovakia White Boy. Demand Kira in any future runs of the show, if season 7 or whatever does happen. Include her in your fanfictions, in your headcanons, in your art. You don’t have to love her, but you have to remember that she’s as there as any of the white characters are.

This take is very hot. If I receive racist asks and/or messages about this, I’m going to make fun of each and every sender.

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cassercole · 5 years

Text

a time travel mishap

based off this gifset because I couldn’t help myself. I also blame @sgtbuckyybarnes.

This was supposed to be simple: return the stones back to their proper timelines and keep time from creating a bunch of nasty alternate universes. Simple, right? Wrong.

The first few stones were simple; first Steve stopped in the seventies to return the Tesseract and pick up a few more Pym Particles for his other journeys and the return one, then he had been able to get the Time Stone and Reality Stone back in their proper places in New York, but before he could travel to Asgard, his suit started beeping and hissing. Something it had never done before.

Being yanked through time was not an ideal experience. It felt like he was going on the Cyclone at Coney Island, but backwards and upside down. His body was being twisted and pulled in every direction. Sometimes he landed, sometimes he didn’t. He saw galaxies pass him by, heard voices of the past and felt things he had never felt before. If he wasn’t in a complete panic the whole time, he’d think it was kind of cool.

But then he landed. Thank God he landed. Of course, he immediately threw up, but he was on solid ground again. Then he heard the unmistakable sound of something powering down. A quick look/smack to the suit proved that it was in fact, the suit itself. Which was ….great.

The only actual good thing was that it looked like he had landed in New York. He just wasn’t sure which New York. There had been two different ones he had been to before time travel became a thing: the one he was born in and the one he woke up in. But this one wasn’t one he had been to before.

A sense of deja vu settled over him as he started to explore the city and get his bearings. He was out of place, just like when he had woken up from the ice all over again. Luckily, this time he wasn’t so overwhelmed by the noises and the general change of the city. The New York he had landed in was similar to the one he was used to, but there were minor detail changes. And a quick look at a newspaper told him it was...2004. Great. At least it wasn’t too far in the past or future. He could still semi-fit in.

Not wanting to draw attention to himself, Steve hurried up the steps and into the first building he came across. He needed to get out of the suit and find some actual clothes and someone to fix the suit. Maybe he could find Tony...where was he in 2004 again?

A loud laugh interrupted his planning thought process, getting him to look down the hallway he had turned into.

Three things flipped through his brain as he did in the following order: he had walked into a high school, said high school halls were filled with teenagers chatting at various lockers, and one of those teenagers was…

“Holy shit.” he breathed out as he took in the sight of a teenage version of Q playing with a lei that was around another student’s neck. It was her. He knew it was, having seen plenty of pictures of her in her high school days.

The messy bun on her head with the defining purple streak highlighting its way into the bun. Those large hoop earrings paired with the choker that matched her crop top. Plus the very short shorts giving him perfect view of her intricate thigh tattoo that she had gotten when she was thirteen. It was her.

While he couldn’t quite hear what she was saying over the general loudness of the hallway, he watched her bite her bottom lip and give the kid she was obviously flirting with the most sultry bedroom eyes he had ever seen on her. He was only ever used to being on the receiving side of that look, never having seen it used on another person. And he had to admit, it made him a little bit….jealous? Why in holy hell was he jealous? It’s not like she was his wife yet. She was a teenager for Christ’s sake! He shouldn’t be jealous of that….

The loud ringing of a bell tore his attention away from where his wife was flirting with some random kid and sent him into slight panic mode; she couldn’t see him. Well, none of them could. At least not with him decked out in his futuristic time travel suit. That would cause a lot of questions he wasn’t sure he could answer without warranting more questions.

Changing out of, then stashing the suit in a random locker, Steve walked back out into the hall in search for Q. Not to do anything, but to just make sure he actually did see her. It’s not every day you see your wife as a teenager.

As he wandered the hallways, he started to think more about where he was. 2004. At least a months, or even a few weeks, before she was sent to jail. He could warn her. Make sure she dumped Spencer and never ended up in the situation she ended up in. He would save her so much trouble and heartbreak.

Then he started to debate with himself; if he told her about everything, she would never meet him. Not like it mattered though since if he told her, he’d just create a new timeline. He could still go back to his original timeline and things would be fine. Telling her would just create an alternate universe. All it would do was let her have the future she wanted, not one she was forced into. That wouldn’t be one of those nasty alternate universes like Bruce said, right?

“Excuse me!” someone called out, making him turn to look over his shoulder. A bearded man in a suit and tie was coming toward him, hand gesturing for him to follow, “You’re the sub, right? For history?” Steve almost laughed out loud, but before he could disagree, the man answered for him, “Sorry, this building’s like a maze. C’mon, class has already started.” he waved for Steve to follow. Taking in a breath, he decided to follow after him, knowing that he couldn’t just ignore him and leave. He could teach history -- even though he had slept through most of it.

The man in the suit, the principal Steve found out, left him in the classroom with a rather large group of teenagers. Most of them seeming like they wanted to be anywhere else. He felt the same. He didn’t have time to stick around and teach history to a bunch of kids. He needed to find someone who could fix the suit so he could get back to his mission. And get home to his Q. The fully matured, adult Q.

Luckily, none of the teenagers expected anything from him. There were already packets on the desk for the kids to do. He was basically just there to babysit until the bell rang again. There had been no sign of Q in the class he subbed for and he wasn’t about to sit through another class he didn’t need to be in. There were more important things to deal with.

Ditching his supposed role as a substitute teacher, Steve once again found himself wandering the empty halls. He made his way to the computer lab figuring he should at least look up Tony. He was running Stark Industries by then, right? Or at least a part of the company?

Even though he was well versed in technology by this point, the computers seemed to have regressed from the ones he was used to in the future. Chunky and rather slow, he was growing frustrated with the tools he was forced to use. A phonebook would be easier at this point, but apparently 2004 was still an awkward transitional phase between technological advancements.

Letting out an annoyed, frustrated noise, he sat back in his chair only to see someone’s head pop up from across the other row of computers. A familiar set of eyes went wide at the sight of him and she quickly ducked back down behind her computer. Brow furrowing, Steve leaned forward in his seat, raising himself up slightly to peer over the row of computers.

“Aren’t you supposed to be in class?” he asked Q, unsurprised by the fact that he found her skipping.

“Aren’t you?” she volleyed back with a raise of her eyebrows. He matched her expression waiting for her to break first, but she held his gaze with the same intensity as her older-self. Good to know that was always a talent of hers, “You’re the new history sub right?” she asked after a moment of silence, “There’s a history class right now.”

“I’m assuming you know this because you’re supposed to be in it?” he asked. She made a face and shrugged, not answering his question and returning to her screen, “What’re you doin’ over there?” he tilted his chin in the direction of her computer, but she didn’t look at him. Only shrugged again and continued to click around on the screen. Taking it upon himself to find out on his own, he moved away from his computer and over to hers to look over her shoulder.

“Online poker, huh?” he crossed his arms over his chest. She didn’t even try to hide it, unintimidated by him. “Is this legal?”

“Nope.” she popped the p in the word, eyes never leaving the screen, “But I’m about to win this hand anyway so I’ll be done in a second.”

“Sure about that?” he knew she loved poker because she was good at reading people’s tells, but this was online. How could she be so confident? Yet a moment later, confetti exploded on the screen; she had won. The screen reflected her proud smirk, one that he had seen countless times whenever she was proud of herself but didn’t want anyone to know about it. “Good job.” he congratulated her, “But now I’m gonna have to take you to the principal.” he tilted his head to the side and clenched his teeth together. Still unfazed by his empty threat, she clicked a few times on the screen to transfer her winnings somewhere and then got to her feet.

“No, you won’t. Cause then you’ll be just as fucked as me.” she smirked at him, “I’ll be telling him how you skipped out on class to research Tony Stark.” she said his name with such disgust that Steve barely contained his flinch. Despite the amount of times Tony and Q had butted heads over the years, he knew they had found some common ground with Molly and had respected and tolerated each other. It was hard to hear her talk about Tony like that. Especially considering everything that had happened in his timeline.

“How do you know what I was doing?” he asked, hands slipping into his pants pockets. She gave him a sly grin then tilted her head to the windows he was sitting in front of. The reflection.

“‘Bye, teach.” she chirped before walking past him and leaving him in the computer lab. Damn teenagers.

According to the internet, Tony still lived in Miami full time, but would be in the city for some event in a few weeks. Which meant Steve was stuck in 2004 for several more days, and still the history sub. Apparently the real history sub never showed up. At least he had Q to keep him company -- that was whenever she decided to show up to class.

“Late again, Ms. Proctor.” he called her out as she flounced into the room with five minutes left in the period. He had to refrain from calling by the last name Rogers like he was used to doing. He was still adjusting to this time period. She gave him a smirk, but didn’t respond, “C’mon Q, you know what that means.” he pointed to the jar that sat on his desk. Something he had implemented during his time as the history sub, “Two dollars in the jar.”

“Oh, I would, Mr. Dawson,” she turned to show off her ass, “but these shorts don’t have any pockets.” she slid her hand down her ass and Steve had to duck his head down to stop himself from staring. Even though she was eighteen, it still wasn’t right to be leering at her ass that she was so proudly displaying to him (typical Q). After all, in this timeline, he was her teacher. This time the professional boundary was his, not hers.

Still, with each passing day, the urge to tell her everything grew stronger and stronger. Really he just wanted to talk to her. After all, she was the one person he could always talk to. About everything and anything. Couldn’t that also be the case in this timeline too? Maybe she could help him get back to his own time. Or at least help him come up with a plan. She was good with making plans in his time, surely she had that talent in high school too.

Though before he could come up with a plan of his own to tell her, he slipped up.

“How do you know that?” she asked suddenly, making him come to a full stop. He looked up at her from where he was grading packets at his desk. Seeing her confused expression made the blood drain from his face. She stared at him, long and hard, searching for answer that she wasn’t going to find unless he told her.

“You...mentioned it the other day.” he responded lamely, gesturing to the empty classroom, “I overheard you talking to Cole about it.” he leaned back in his chair, arms crossing over his chest. Her eyes narrowed and he knew he fucked up even more; she didn’t believe him.

“Why would I tell Cole about my grandmother’s birthday?” she asked, voice becoming steely in a tone he was used to; she always used it whenever he was in trouble. Which he very much was right then.

“I don’t know, aren’t you two friends?” he tried to dig himself out of the hole he was in. She scoffed, looking over his head as she shook her own.

“Ridiculous, no. What are you doing? Stalking me?” she was getting angry with him, which was fair. He didn’t have to say a goddamn word about how she was going to be out of school for her grandmother’s birthday trip, since all she said was that she was going to be missing class. But of course, he had to fill in the blanks with the details he knew because of his Q. And he had done so out loud.

“No, of course not.” he finally looked up at her to see her glaring at him. He swallowed the lump in his throat and then got to his feet. Better to tell her the truth than have her think something else.

Shutting the classroom door, he turned back to her. She was waiting expectantly for an answer, arms crossing over her chest. As he walked back toward her, he slipped his hands into his pockets so she wouldn’t see him clenching his fists nervously.

“There’s something I have to tell you.” he started. Her blank expression didn’t change, indicating he should continue, “My name isn’t Steven Dawson. It’s Steve. Steve Rogers.” he waited for her reaction, thinking it would be more than the scoff he got followed by an unconvinced,

“Like Captain America?”

“Not like. Am.” he corrected her. Her arms dropped to her sides and she rolled her eyes.

“No way, that guy’s been dead since World War Two.” he winced at the casual mention of his death, reminded that in 2004, everyone still thought he was dead. Not a human popsicle.

“I’m not. I’m frozen in a block of ice in the Arctic.” he corrected her, “But that’s not the point.” he moved on, “The point is that I’m not just Captain America, I’m also from the future.” he finished seriously. The corners of her mouth twitched for a moment before she let out a laugh.

“Oh my God! You’re not serious are you?” she laughed, placing her hands on her hips, “I mean just say you’re some weird teacher creep! It’s better than pretending you’re a time traveler.” she laughed again.

“I’m completely serious, Q.” he took in a breath, “And in my present -- your future, we know each other.” he kept it simple, not wanting to overwhelm her with the whole marriage thing. Again, she laughed and then shook her head,

“Right okay, then what year are you from?”

“2023.” he told her, “Nineteen years from now. You’re almost forty.” her eyes went wide at the mention of such an old age and he had to stifle a laugh.

“No, no that’s not a real year.” she laughed, shaking her head a bit, “Jesus Christ, they really need to start doing background checks on these subs cause you’re nuts.” she leaned forward a bit and he shook his head, hands moving from his pockets to his hips.

“I’m not.” he gave her a half smile, “Trust me, I know it’s a little hard to wrap your head around --” she let out a bark of a laugh but he continued, “but I’m really from the future.” she eyed him, squinting a bit more as she studied him.

“Prove it.” she challenged him, “Prove you’re from the future.” he took in a breath before meeting her eyes.

“What do you want to know?” he asked, knowing it would be best to have her be in control of the situation. She thought to herself for a moment, staring off into the distance then letting her eyes return to his.

“Tell me something about me. We’re friends in the future, right?” she asked, stressing the word friends, almost like she knew something he didn’t -- or maybe did. Still, he nodded, “Then tell me something that only I and a friend would know.” she prompted him. He took in a breath and tried to think of something she had told him from her teenage years. There wasn’t much to go off of since she never really talked about this time to begin with but…

“I know you once beat someone up in the alleyway of Grattan Street because two older boys were messing with your younger brother, Frankie.” he settled on, remembering their conversation during their first trip to Brooklyn all those years ago. She stared at him for a long moment before shaking her head,

“No, not good enough. You could’ve walked by when it happened.” she debated his answer and gave a shrug. He sighed and offered up another Q factoid:

“Sometimes, you skip school to go to Mets games and sit up in the nosebleeds with a Coke and popcorn and have a stat book full of the players averages and whatnot.” she shook her head again,

“You could’ve followed me there.” she shifted from foot to foot, “Try something else.” He glanced at the clock, knowing he was running out of time before the next bell rang.

“I’m doing the best I can, Queenie.” he pinched the bridge of his nose as he tried to think of something else, “I know your favorite color is a soft yellow, you have to use sensitive skin detergent or else your skin gets all red and bumpy, you got that tattoo when you were thirteen and had to hire someone on Craigslist to pretend to be your parent, you --”

“Okay, stop! Stop!” she cut him off with a wave of her hands, “No, this was...this was a bad idea. You’re not from the future, you’re just some creep.” she started toward him to leave the room, but he blocked her; at this point desperate for her to believe him. Her eyes flicked over his stance and he relaxed a bit so she would know he wasn’t going to try anything, “If you’re from the future, why don’t you just go back to it?”

“I can’t.” it came out softer, more broken than he meant for it to, “I’m stuck here. My suit malfunctioned and the only person who can help is Tony and he...I just...I was hoping you could help me too.” he met her eyes, seeing how they widened slightly. She didn’t respond, but he continued anyway, “Q, I know you’re a little bit curious about all this.” he called her out, seeing it in her eyes. She hesitated for a moment before scoffing,

“And how do you know that? Cause you’re from the future?” she made a face and said the last word a bit weirdly. He took in a breath, wanting to say something else, but then the bell rang. He deflated a bit, knowing he had missed his chance and might have fucked everything up even more than before, “Just stay the fuck away from me.” she told him lowly and there was an underlying threat to it that gave him a glimpse into the Q that Dawson described to him way back when. The feral, dangerous one that wouldn’t hesitate to ruin someone’s life without lifting a single finger.

So he let her go. He had to let her go.

And he didn’t see her for days. Yes, she was supposed to be out of school, but even after that she didn’t reappear. A part of him thought that the night she ended up in jail had already passed, but the news hadn’t reported anything yet.

He re-focused on getting back to the correct timeline. Now more than ever he longed for his Q. The one who loved him unconditionally. Who’d believe him no matter what and who’d always be by his side. He wanted to go home.

The only person who could help him was currently in town for some sort of conference. He hadn’t read the details but knew where it was; some fancy hotel in Manhattan. Steve had planned to take the train there, walking to the station with the suit and the other stones in a duffel bag. All he needed was a few minutes with Tony. If he could just get him alone and tell him about the suit, he knew it would be enough to pique Tony’s interest. The mere mention of time travel was enough to get Tony involved the first time around.

As he walked, a car pulled up beside him, slowing to keep pace with him. He glanced into the car to see Q in the driver’s seat. His surprise clearly showed on his face because she gave him a slight smile.

“What? This didn’t happen in the future?” she asked. He let out a slight laugh and paired it with a shake of his head,

“This is still the past.” he reminded her. She made a face and let out a noise of annoyance.

“Whatever. Do you want a ride to the hotel or not?” he stopped walking, turning to face her fully.

“How do you know where I’m going?” his brow furrowed and she gave him another one of her trademark smiles.

“You may be from the future, but I can see into the future.” she joked, making him roll his eyes, “You said you needed to get your suit fixed and then mentioned Tony...aka Stark who’s at a hotel in Manhattan right now.” she rattled off, voice taking on the familiar medical tone it always did whenever she explained anything. He didn’t hide his proud smile as she stopped the car fully so he could get in.

The drive was quiet for a few minutes, but he could tell she was itching to say something. He glanced over at her, having another weird sense of deja vu; she always drove him everywhere when they lived in DC and here she was...doing it again.

“Say what’s in your head.” he prompted with the familiar phrase. She glanced over to him with a small smile,

“Sorry, sorry, I’m just...thinking about the stuff you said in the classroom the other day.” she admitted. He ducked his head down to look at his lap.

“Right, yeah, I’m sorry...I probably went a little overboard.”

“No! No you didn’t.” she shook her head, “It’s just...we aren’t just friends, are we?” she asked with a pointed glance to his left hand where he wore his wedding ring. A slightly embarrassed laugh escaped from him and he felt his cheeks burn.

“No...we’re...we were co-workers for a bit at SHIELD, you were assigned to me to help me ease back into the modern world, but then we became friends. We started dating after SHIELD collapsed…” he paused as he came up on their period of separation, deciding that if he was telling her the story, he was going to tell her everything, “Ended splitting up for a bit, but we found our way back to each other then...we got married.” he told her with a raise of his eyebrows. He watched her face scrunch up in what could be considered disgust,

“I end up marrying you?” her tone was a mix of disbelief and something else, “but you’re like a hundred.” he had to laugh at her reasoning.

“Out of everything I told you, that’s what you’re focusing on?” he asked as she talked over him,

“I mean I’ve always had a thing for older guys, but I mean that’s just...” she trailed off as he lifted his hand up,

“Alright, okay.” he stopped her with a chuckle, “That’s enough, thank you.” she glanced over to him with a small smile,

“Sorry,” she apologized again, “I just...never thought I’d end up with someone like you.” she blushed a bit, thoughts obviously turning to her current relationship.

“You think you’re gonna end up with Spencer?” he asked plainly, making her mouth drop into a small o. Before she could retort, he continued, “I think you should get rid of that guy.” she let out a bemused laugh,

“Of course you do!” she laughed again, “Obviously my future husband is not gonna want me to be with my current boyfriend.” he shook his head, pushing his jealousy aside for a moment.

“No, that’s not it.” he almost sarcastically said, “There’s more to it than that.” she glanced at him, noticing the tone of voice his statement took on. Taking in a breath, he dove in, “I know what happens at the facility.”

“What facility?” she asked and for a moment, he thought he was too early or had messed up the details, or was even planting the idea to do what she did in his head, but he pushed on,

“The facility SHIELD uses to house their drugs.” he simply put it, noticing how her grip on the wheel tightened, “You’re already planning it, aren’t you?” he asked with a flick of his eyes to her face. She didn’t respond so he continued, “Listen, I just...something’s gonna go wrong. The cops’ll show up early and he’ll leave you there. And you’ll be put in prison.” his stomach knotted up at the memory of her recounting the story of that fateful night to him.

“No, no, that’s not true.” Q shook her head, eyes blinking rapidly as if to stop tears from falling, “No, I planned everything out. There’s not gonna be any mishaps or cops or -- he’s not gonna leave me, okay!?” Steve put his hands up to defend himself from her words but she was on a roll, “No, we’re partners. If I go down, he does too and vice a versa. He wouldn’t leave me and make me take the blame! I mean, he can be a dick, yeah, but he -- he loves me. He loves me, right?” she looked at him as if he would have the answers. Steve stayed quiet. She turned her attention back to the road, licking her lips before swallowing,

“Why are you even telling me this?” she asked suddenly, “Doesn’t this fuck up the future? Butterfly effect or whatever?”

“No, no that’s not how time works.” he didn’t want to get into the details of it and quickly tried to smooth things over, “You don’t have to do anything with the information I just gave you. I just know...I know it really hurt you and I’m just trying to save you a little pain and hopefully help you have a chance at a better future.” he finished softly, knowing more than she ever would: SHIELD, Bucky, the snap... She glanced at him again, pulling her bottom lip into her mouth and nodding,

“Okay, yeah…” she trailed off as she looked back at the road.

At the hotel, he left her in the lobby while he went in search of Tony. She paced the length of the lobby while she waited, thinking about the conversation she had with Steve in the car. Everything he had said was a lot to process. The biggest thing being married to him...Captain fucking America. They’d lock her in a mental institution if she started telling people that. But beside that major thing, there were other things that made her reconsider everything.

Sure, the stuff about the facility plan seemed both vague and specific at the same time. And there was an emotion behind it that she couldn’t quite place, but it was one that was genuine and made her believe he was telling her the truth.

Hours had passed by the time Steve finally exited into the lobby again. The event was long over and Q was the only one in the lobby, curled up on the couch, not asleep, just waiting for him. She sat up at the sight of him, noticing the weird white and red suit he was wearing.

“Is that your time travel suit?” she asked, getting a nod from him, “So it works again?”

“Sure does.” she tried to give him a smile but it fell a bit flat. Almost like she didn’t want him to go, “What’s wrong?” he asked, shifting his stance a bit. She shook her head, arms crossing over her chest,

“Nothing, no, I’m just...if what you said is true and I don’t do the facility plan or whatever...what’ll happen to me?” her voice was quiet, almost like she was scared of the answer. She cleared her throat and raised her shoulders up, “Like will I just graduate high school? Go to college or whatever? Will I still meet you? You said we got married and now I...well, I don’t know if I wanna get married but...how do I know I did the right thing this time? Chose the right ending?” she finished, finally meeting his eyes.

“Hey, it’ll be okay.” he assured her, reaching out to place his hands on her shoulders, “The right ending, is the one that you choose.” he told her, keeping his eyes locked on hers, “And this isn’t goodbye, Queenie.”

“How do you know?” she asked back in a small voice. He gave her a half smile,

“Cause I’m from the future, remember?” he pointed out. She rolled her eyes at that, making him grin fully. Before he could stop himself, he pulled her in for a quick, tight hug -- surprised she hugged him back. Then he stepped away from her. It was time for him to go back to his Q.

Q watched as he pressed a few buttons on the wrist device he had attached to the suit. The machine whirred to life and a relieved smile came over his face. He gave her one last look before pressing a button. There was a loud whoosh and a gust of wind blew through the space before everything settled into silence. Steve had disappeared into thin air.

“Fucking time travel.” she breathed out to herself with a slight grin.

The same whoosh that accompanied him when he was pulled back into the time tunnel, filled his ears as he arrived back on the platform in the forest outside the Avengers compound. Blinking a moment, he took in the scene before him. Bruce was at the control table, Sam a few feet away from it and Bucky standing next to him. And then there was Q. Right where he left her -- and the appropriate age again. Thank God.

“That was the longest five seconds of my life.” Q dramatically sighed out as Steve stepped off the platform to greet her. She immediately wrapped her arms around him and pulled him in close. Inhaling, she paused for a moment. He smelled differently. She moved her face so she could nuzzle her nose a bit more into his neck as her brow furrowed.

“Is that…” she pulled away to look at him for a moment before leaning in again to take another whiff, “Is that Rush by Gucci I smell?” she asked. The name meant nothing to Steve, which she knew and continued to explain, “I doused myself in the stuff every day in high school to hide the smell of my cigarettes. I ended up just smelling like a nightclub, but it’s a very distinctive smell, Steven.” she gave him a knowing look, “Did you take a detour?” she asked a follow-up question, already getting an inkling of the answer. He adapted a look of innocence, pulling down the corners of his mouth,

“Accidentally.” he responded with a slight movement of his head, “I didn’t mean to end up in Brooklyn in 2004.” her eyes widened at the vague explanation; it was enough for her to know what he was talking about. A big, amused smile broke out across her face,

“Oh fuck.” she breathed out, stepping back to lightly slap him on the chest, “You hung out with eighteen year old me!” she laughed a little, arms crossing over her chest, “So? Impressions? Thoughts?” he looked over her head with a slight smile before looking back at her,

“All I’ll say is that I’m glad I know you now.” he amended, making her roll her eyes at the cop-out answer, “You can be a little...mean.” he supported, but she wasn’t offended in the slightest.

“Yeah, well, what did you expect?” she shrugged and made a face, “You know I didn’t have the best track record.” he gave her an understanding smile, reaching out for her only for him to stop her with a raise of her hand, “You didn’t like… fuck me though right?” she eyed him, squinting a bit as if she could see right through him.

“I did not!” he shot her down, face reddening as he looked over to the others still standing around them. Bucky let out a cough to hide his laugh and ducked his head down as Sam tried to fight a grin, “No, no I just...asked for your help.” Q bit her lip and nodded a bit, still studying him and choosing whether or not to believe him,

“Sure yea, okay…” she trailed off, “I know how I was at eighteen, Steven.” she raised a finger up at him, shaking it a bit, “Veeerrrry into older men.” she echoed her younger self’s comment. He raised his eyebrows up,

“Still are.” he pointed out with a slight smirk of his own and earning groans from the other two men standing around.

“Alright, enough!” Sam called out, annoyance-slash-distaste filtering through. But Q only giggled, stepping into his arms and giving him a searing kiss -- both ignoring Bucky and Sam’s sounds of disgust.

And maybe, when it was all said and done, Steve went back to that alternate timeline. Several years later, of course. Just to see if Q had done anything differently in the years since he left her and if his visit had affected anything at all.

He figured it had, since he found that she was presenting some new way to predict consumers’ buying patterns at some giant marketing conference in New York. While a part of him was a little sad that she never found her way to SHIELD -- to him, he was still happy she was able to get her happy ending. And was still wearing pant suits.

Though after the conference, he did tail her for a bit. Just to see if there was anything else he should know about. And he followed her into a bar, watching as she slid into a booth across from another person who had a very familiar look to him.

Almost like she could sense someone staring at her, her eyes flicked over to where Steve was standing by the end of the bar. Eyes meeting, he froze, unsure what to do. But he stayed where he was, watching her eyes shift to the person she was sitting across from. She said something to her tablemate before getting up from the table and crossing over to the bar.

“Hello again.” she greeted him with a knowing smile, “You look exactly the same.” she teased and he couldn’t help but give her a smile.

“I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have…” he ducked his head down, “I was just curious to see what happened.” he sighed, meeting her eyes again. She gave him a grin, settling her elbows on the bar,

“Well, I didn’t go to jail.” she stated the obvious, “I was on Forbes 30 under 30 and just presented a new tactic that will revolutionize consumer analytics.” she ticked off her list of achievements with a proud smile. He grinned back at her, just as proud of her as she was of herself.

“That’s really great, Q.” he congratulated her, “I’m happy for you.”

“Oh, and --” she held up her left hand and wagged her ring finger so he could see the ring on her finger. It was eerily similar to the engagement ring that his Q wore on her finger back in his time. He raised his eyebrows and glanced to the person in the booth, brows furrowing cause was that really how the back of his head looked?

“That’s not you.” she answered the question in his head per usual, “That’s my friend, Dawson.” Steve’s heart jumped to his throat at the mention of his former friend and he didn’t see the knowing look she was giving him, “Assuming a friend of yours too?” she referred back to the fake last name he had used during her high school days.

“Was one of my best.” he answered, voice but a breath. He didn’t realize how much he missed his friend until he was mere feet away from him. All he wanted to do was say hi, hear his voice one last time. Maybe even get a chance to say goodbye. But no, no, he couldn’t fuck up this timeline more than he already had -- was.

“Well, we met during the Battle of New York. How I met you too, actually.” she got his attention again, “You saved my life from a very terrifying alien from outer space.” While her tone was light, she was looking at him seriously. Weird; in his timeline, she had saved his, “Took me a second to realize it wasn’t the you I knew in high school, but…”

“And you still…” he trailed off, hoping he hadn’t forced her to go after an ending she didn’t really want.

“Of course.” she gave him a slightly sardonic smile, “You can’t just tell someone you’re gonna marry them and then think they’re gonna forget about it.” she teased a bit, making him laugh a little.

“I’m sorry, I feel like I fucked everything up. Forced you into a future you might not have wanted.” he spoke his concerns aloud and she shook her head.

“You didn’t. Like you said, I had the option to do the thing with Spencer or not and I didn’t. I chose my future. Not you.” she paused, “The right ending is the one you choose.” she reminded him before taking in a breath, “And besides, I would’ve ended up with you anyway, right?” he nodded, assuming if she took the same path she did, it would end the way he knew. She’d find her way to him sooner or later. She raised her shoulders up at his nod, “Then I guess it was meant to be. In whatever timeline or universe or whatever.” she said matter of factly. He nodded to himself, smiling a bit at the thought.

Throughout all the alternate universes and timelines that existed, they always found each other.

#reality in motion #queve #was this lame? a little #but i loved it so #also this is a straight up FIC not just a oneshot #wow how did it get so long ugh #anYWHO #enjoy i guess #**#**writings

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heartavenged · 5 years

Text

THINGS I LOVED ABOUT AVENGERS ENDGAME

SPOILERS.

Based on the amazing post by @saieras (21 things I loved about endgame), anything pushed by blockquotes (the little line on the left), and some of the titles, come directly from said post --DISCLAIMER -- and means I agree completely.

1. THE FIRST 20 MINUTES

Expectations? Chuck them out the window. They weren’t kidding when they said all promotional material came from the first 20 mins!!! I loved how they got right into the thick of things, cameras blazing, completely no nonsense. And CAROL omg. Also I did NOT expect Thanos’ death to be, Just Like That.

CAROL, again.

2. THE TIME JUMP

Very, very smart move. I liked everything about the time jump. It lets us view the event with a lens of a world shattered, a world that has had the chance to come to its senses and reel from the catastrophe.

3. TONY CONFRONTS STEVE

I have firmly been Team Iron Man since Civil War, and Tony is my favourite character (I am not okay), so suffice to say that I loved how, even weakened with malnourishment, he got in Steve’s face, and everything he said.

4. THE LANGS

Just. Every joke he made. Fantastic.But also I did not expect to shed my first tear at his and Cassie’s reunion. That was great.

5. DOMESTIC TONY

Tony and Morgan. Such a real, cute father-daughter relationship. ‘Mommy send me to rescue you’ and ‘Love you three thousand’ filled my heart with joy.

6. INTERN

Tony and Peter’s photo (...) AND THAT PHOTO WAS HIS. In HIS HOUSE. FRAMED. I REALLY wish we got more but that moment was very powerful. Still, I was unsatisfied. I wanted Tony to cry. I wanted Morgan to also know about Peter. Basically I want more canonical proof of Irondad Spiderson. Like, listen, this is the one loss that haunts Tony to this day. Peter’s death was the kind of pain that made Tony terrified of going again, for fear of losing Morgan

7. THE NYC SCENE

ALL of it. From Tony the security guard, to him talking shit about his own deodorant, to him giving himself a cardiac arrest to cause a diversion and being like this is fine, nothing to see here. And Hulk vs stairs. And STEEB. OMG STEEB. “Hail Hydra.“ “I’ve got visuals on Loki.” “I can do this all da–“ “Yeah. I know. I know.“

“Bucky… Is… ALIVE“

And butt jokes. So many Steve buttjokes. I don’t ship stony, but that is the closest y’all will get to a stony suggestive scene.

ALSO LOKI just yeeting himself outta there. That’s ma boi!

8. FRIGGA AND THOR

Nuff said. Mama Frigga is the best.

9. TONY AND HOWARD

It’s really great how adorable Tony was throughout this scene. And… while Howard was NOT redeemed, it’s nice to know he did love his son. And it’s great that Tony got some closure.

10. PEGGY AND STEVE

Out of the Big Three’s scenes with their “significant past people”, this one was the least impactful for me, as they didn’t even talk, BUT in retrospect it set the scene for later perfectly.

Also because I don’t much care for Steve.

11. GAMORA

This is GREAT and showcases her character very well, who she really is despite who Thanos raised her to be.

True, the minute she realizes Thanos’ plan is to wipe out half the universe, she is so clearly appalled (I don’t think she really knew what he planned for after he gathered all stones), and immediately starts to reconsider her position on the whole thing.

12. CLINT AND NATASHA

Their friendship was on full display during this film. Their scenes. And how it was all platonic. The entire audience knew, as soon as they landed on Vormir, that one of them wasn’t going to make it.

- I knew it would be Natasha , though, Clint and his family, and Natasha and her whole “I need redemption, I’m still trying to be a better person” -

Back to the Vormir scene: it was amazing, and heartbreaking, the lengths they were willing to go to make sure they were the sacrifice, like, how they were willing to injure if it meant the other were alive at the end. Clint and Natasha were never my favourites (except around Avengers), but I will forever applaud Scarlett Johansson and Jeremy Renner for their outstanding performance.

13. THE BIG THREE FIGHT THANOS

Thor’s lightning and Tony’s Iron Man tech combining to kick purple ass, all of three of them holding the titan back while the others tried to crawl out of the rubble. Still, the “big three fight” was mainly focused on Steve, in my opinion.

Like previously stated, I’m not a greeeat Steve fan, but even I have to admit that Mjölnir zapping to his hand at that precise moment was awesome. I cheered right along with everyone else. Which also justifies Thor grabbing it along from the past and possibly, maybe, most likely, leaving his past-self without it?

Anyways, cue tears at each shard of the shield.

14. THE ENTRANCE OF THE HEROES

If I was crying before, the moment that Sam hails Steve, and Shuri, Okoye and T’Challa walk through that first portal I was outright sobbing.

Words don’t do justice to the emotion I felt at seeing ALL my heroes assemble for the last time. At each new face I cried harder. They didn’t forget anyone and that made me so fucking happy.

I felt as if I could climb into the screen and fight alongside them, I felt powerful enough and fired up enough to do it too. And that’s the magic of that scene, thank you cast and crew. Thank you MARVEL for the incredible build up, I thought it was worth it.

15. PETER AND TONY

How Peter goes straight for Tony and cute rambling mode is already turned on, but Tony can’t even speak, and just falls into the hug in a parallel of their “hug” in Infinity War.

“Oh, this is nice!”

The moment is essencial since Peter, and not really any of the other tens of trillions* that vanished in the snap, is the reason Tony embarks in the time travel venture, even when it could’ve cost him so much. So it validates his choice, besides his being, you know, a true hero.

16. CAROL’S ENTRANCE

I missed her in this movie. I mean, I thought she would be in almost every shot, but maybe that was just because I think she’s fantastic. Her entrance, tho.

“What are they shooting at?” “Something just entered the atmosphere”

And then blast! Singlehandedly destroying the mothership (Thanos’ looks so fucking offended and we can see any conviction of victory waning from his expression), and kicking some ass. Way to establish dominance early on girl!

I mean, I played with the idea of Infinity-War-Thor being equal to Carol, (and maybe, maybe, he could’ve come a close) but now? She’s so clearly in another level... No words except: goddess.

17. PETER IN THE BATTLE + CAROL

Instant kill mode

So proud of him. The way he flips in, and is instantly like Woah this is a Big Fight!!

“Hey Peter Parker. Got something for me?”

CAROL. CArol listen. You are his mom now. That’s how it works with that damn kid. (...) It be like that sometimes.

I don’t think Carol would ever be around enough for anything close to parental relationship (plus, May is Peter’s mom), but that boy will worship the hero-shit out of Captain Marvel.

18. MARVEL’S HEROINES

If my crying had eased a bit from the general assemble moment, I fucking cracked again here. They are so tough, and powerful, and beautiful.

As a woman, it was so damn empowering and important to see all of them up there, together, each with their own background and their own strengths. I love how we had all kinds of women - warriors, mothers, princesses, generals, wives, captains, businesswomen, scientists, girlfriends, assasins, friends, witches - and all of them fighters.

I also can’t wait for the gifset and the final still - it’s gonna be my background for about everything.

Also RESCUE. OMG. PEPP. And the battlefield fighting side by side with Tony.

19. TONY’S SEND OFF

His death. I was glad Pepper was the last one there, to tell him it’s okay, they’ll be fine, he can let go.

AND PETER. Peter was there, trying to talk to him, sobbing and breaking down. This is what I wanted, going in, if Tony were to die. And this is what I got. You just know this is going to haunt him in FFH.

And Tony himself. His immense sacrifice, the moment he knew what he had to do, the moment Strange held up that finger. One way. UGH.

Of course I knew Natasha wouldn’d be the only one to die, but damn, I’m still feeling the hole his amazing fictional character left/ is going to leave in my life. Literally the only one (Peter was of course safe with Far From Home around the corner) I didn’t want to die. I loved him before my heart was inflated with Stark-family feels.

The lake house was so peaceful and I loved how it showed that after all his trouble, his PTSD, Tony had found a home and a family (even if somethings haunted him).

The picture, and how devastated Peter is can only mean that between Homecoming and Infinity War they grew closer, which had always been what I wanted. But I wanted to see it! Fanfiction will have to continued to lull my pain, I guess.

Speaking of fanfiction, Harley being at the funeral is all the proof my little fanheart needs to claim they’ve not only been in contact through the years, but had a mentor/parental relationship as well.

The question for me now is: how well do the boys know each other?

20. AND FINALLY, TONY. RDJ.

Thank you. Beyond all words, Thank you.

This has been one hell of a ride.

FOREVER IRON MAN

#avengers endgame #endgame spoilers #MCU

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laufire · 6 years

Note

For the tv show ask 1-7, 9 & 10

(Glad to see you considered question 8 as boring as I do xD)

if you could reboot one TV show, which one would it be?

This is a hard questions because honestly, I don’t think in reboots xD. If I loved a show, a ~reimagining of it doesn’t come to my mind? Even if I won’t mind it if it happened (this is my reminder for checking out the Charmed reboot once and for all, it’s one of the very few I’ve been enthusiastic about).

Hmm. Maybe some type of Lois & Clark reboot? In the sense that I’ve wanted a clois show that reimagined the source material for a while. I would want it with Lois’ POV as the lead tho; Lois would still be older and more established than Clark, and I’ve always liked the idea of her as a war correspondent (or at least former war correspondent). It could be interesting to use a visual medium instead of newspapers, too. Lucy Liu has been one of my fancasts for a while, NGL, reinforced by that Set It Up movie. She looks a lot like the STAS version. I’ve also seen Morley and Lindsay fancasted as Clois over twitter and it’s GOOD, but tbh I want Lois to be older than him.

if you could have saved one TV show from cancellation, which one would it be?

A few months ago, I would’ve said El Ministerio del Tiempo (The ministry of time, aka the show timeless ripped-off lol), but it’s just been renewed for a fourth season after over a year without a word and I’m over the moon (they announced it the day of Los Santos Inocentes, aka Spain’s equivalent to April’s Fools, and I was suspicious about it for over a week lmao).

So with that out of the way, the question would be between Sarah Connor Chronicles and Galavant, tbh. Probably SCC, because that cliff-hanger still haunts me to this day.

have you ever quit a show before it finished? why?

I quit shows ALL THE FREAKING TIME. Usually, it’s simply because they don’t grab my hyper-fixation, and if I’m not 200% into it, what’s the point, really (sometimes, if I *do* really like some parts of the story, I go back when the season is finished and binge-watch, but mostly I just quit). Other times it’s because I can tell that my priorities are too different from the writers and I pre-emptively pull away. But mostly is due to lack of enthusiasm for the story. I don’t think I’ve ever rage-quitted anything.

are there any shows you wish could just be cancelled already?

Not really. I mean, most of my current shows are brand new xD (Legacies, Roswell, The Umbrella Academy, Elite, Sex Education, Black Monday -where I’m not caught up because I Fear the ending and I want to see how it all pans down-; I just started Deadly Class and I’m loving it), and the others are The 100, Star vs the Forces of Evil, Veep, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (tho if last season had been its end I’d be fine with it, it was gr10 for me and my priorities lol) and Suits, where, tbh, if the writers maintained the level of engagement I’ve felt in the last season, I would be fine with them running more years. And the rest of the shows I’m entertaining to watch are already finished or cancelled, so.

(I heard about SPN’s cancellation and I’m actually a little sad about it lol. Not for the show itself -I’ve only watched Bela’s, Ruby’s and Anna’s episodes and that’s how it’s forever gonna stay; I knew I would never be able to get into the show because Dean is pretty much my anti-type of lead character lol. But I found its endurability hilarious and it’s cancellation sounds fake xDD).

what’s your comfort show?

RN, Star vs the Forces of Evil. I wish more people in my dash watched it because it’s the cutest thing ever, and it has legitimately gr10 storylines. I need to watch the latests eps.

Other comfort shows: Galavant, Gravity Falls, Lois & Clark… almost any of my favourite animated shows, tbh.

which shows do you think are underrated and need more love?

Of my current shows, Black Monday. I haven’t seen anyone on my dash mention it, and it had me hooked from the first episode and the next just reinforced it (I haven’t watched past that because, as I said, there’s some foreshadowing that makes me fear the ending, as I am already way too invested… there’s only two episodes left, so I’ll be binge-watching it soon tho).

have you ever been inspired to start a new show based on gifs or memes it has produced?

That’s exactly why I started Deadly Class yesterday and I’m already half-way through lol (it’s only ten eps long). I saw it around tumblr and I took notice, thinking I might try it out at some point, though I didn’t know what it was about. Then I saw this gifset (it’s from the pilot, so not too spoilery), and I needed to know what the fuck was going on LMAO. Fair warning, though not too graphic (except kind of in the flashbacks, which are drawn in comic style and have the worst content), it has frankly upsetting/potentially triggering content. But I’m really enjoying the ~vibe and its characters. The protagonist (my fave) kind of reminds me of Scott McCall? Not so much in personality (… there he kind of reminds me of Jason Todd lol, with caveats), but in the “his milkshake brings all the boys (and girls, and nb folk) to the yard” factor xDD

what’s one show you thought you’d hate but turned out to really enjoy?

I tend to be right about my predictions in this regard lol. Usually, at most I’ll start watching something ~casually/with other people, and later it grabs me when I start shipping/stanning some characters HARD (see: MCU, Shadowhunters).

Oh, I recently started watching Legends of Tomorrow with a friend (except we’re going backwards because she’s in s4 and I didn’t feel the need to catch up first lol); giving my meh reaction to the rest of the CW DC verse (The Flash is the only one I tolerate & can casually watch some arcs once in a while, and it’s because Westallen it’s what it is, basically. I’m kind of curious about the daughter-from-the-future plotline and I might watch last season when it’s over. In general, there’s something about the ~pathos of the ‘verse that rubs me the wrong way), and I’m liking it A LOT more than I expected? Most of the characters really ~*spark* and I’m loving it (notable exceptions: Ava, Mick, and Grant? Gary? IDK, that dude).

what’s one show you thought you’d love but turned out to really hate?

Hmm… kind of same-as-above. This is probably partially because of my tendency to drop shows at the first sign of anything unappealing, because it doesn’t let my feelings grow into hate lol.

#grapecase #too many stuff to tag lol #my thoughts #replies #talking to the void #clois #dc #dctv #dc's legends of tomorrow #black monday #star vs the forces of evil #deadly class #el ministerio del tiempo #lois and clark: the new adventures of superman #dc thoughts #deadly class thoughts #and i'm gonna stop right there lol

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reactionjournal · 4 years

Text

Mandalorian S1 Catchup

106

I’ve been on this same damn episode for like a year it feels like. Probably literally. (I think I only got Disney+ in like August? but it’s been queued since I watched 105 a year ago)

Oh my god though the trick of slipping the tracking beacon onto Qin was incredible. Also I love baby yoda (whose name I know but don’t canonically know yet so here we are) trying to force...(???) push that person aiming the gun at him and just glancing down at his hand like, “Huh?” when Mando (I also know HIS name but again, canonically I don’t yet soooo)

“I told you that was a bad idea.” He says to the baby 😭

107

I love how much fun it feels like they’re having in this weird bar fight the lady is in? I don’t remember her name.

“He’s not a local warrior. He’s Imperial.” “I’m in.” Wow I love her all over again.

Really interested in IG-11. It feels like necromancy to raise a destroyed robot and seat a new consciousness and programming? “Droids are not good or bad, they are neutral impressions of those who imprint them.” Is fascinating in the context of what I just said. Also... conceptually - this is gonna be me on my bullshit for a minute I just paused.

Conceptually how different is it to allow a new consciousness to be housed in your body when you’re dead than, say, donating your organs? Because I don’t know that there is a difference? Like obviously if there were a protocol for that they would have said it, but just as a hypothetical I think if I was a robot I’d want that? The only thing that I would stipulate is like, needing some very visible changes to my chassis so as not to hurt my loved ones when they see a new pilot behind my eyes. There are a lot of ways robots can have religion, but I think that would be the foundation of mine. Might be the foundation of mine for Turn Your Gays.

Okay, resumption.

“When you worked for the Empire?” “When I was SOLD to the Empire!” Is. Wow. This. TMG: Things will shortly get completely out of hand/I can feel it in the rotten air tonight

“Imps” as an abbreviation of Imperials is interesting

I know this is SW but why is everyone such a terrible shot in this campfire scene?

“He’s trying to eat me” oh my god

hey I’m sorry does this baby have Force Heal? I know I’m like fifty five years late to this party, but!!!!

Okay I’m sorry!!! He did a spinning dual-pistol killshot on two separate targets and they couldn’t hit one bird with like god 100 rounds of blaster fire? I...I mean it’s COOL I’m just so confused about how blasters work. It was cool though he gets this one.

Wow this is a terrible plan, I love it.

“I’ll give you 20 credits for the helmet.” Fuck the plan I’ll hunt that guy.

I know I can’t read EVERYTHING as Indigenous but this man is a colonizer. I know he’s also an Imperial and that’s like already part and parcel but listen.

oh. yeah no I was just right, huh.

well he’s dead, that’s nice. It’s too bad they’re in a fucking Magnificent Seven/Seven Samurai style western shootout now!

Also I don’t like that whoever called that guy was like, “You should check [if you have the child] again” before opening fire. That’s a bad look OH SHIT THAT’S A TIE FIGHTER AHHHHHHHHH

Wow speeder bikes look as cool as they are deathtraps.

wow that’s a sith.

IS THAT GIANCARLO ESPOSITO? I think I knew he was in this at one point but I forgot, fuck

Oh no Kuiil 😭😭😭

108

Oh my god this like... mundane conversation between the troopers who stole the baby. I needed this after that last thing.IG-11!!!!!!!!!!! IG-11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ST1: Aren’t IGs usually hunters? ST2, dismissively: Well, this one’s a nurse. I’m sorry, Nurse, but, you’re gonna have to get out of here.

God

“Night of a Thousand Tears” is...I don’t like that. I’m not gonna google it until later tho.

I appreciate how different this Giancarlo character is from Gus Fring.

“Mandalorian isn’t a race. It’s a Creed.” I assume that’s on a lot of gifsets? It’s a strong thing. Also it goes against the whole concept of Blood Quantum and Degree of Indian Blood etc which is a slow genocide in our world so! I’m for it!

oh my GOD IS IG-11 GOING TO THE CITY????

Me: I’m not a gun guy Din, walking through a door with excellent gunmanship Me, sweating: don’t look at me

Wow Giancarlo is a fucking cool character. Two shots: One, a headshot on Din, two, a shot at the fucking generator for the E-Web. If he was an X-Com character I’d go, “Oh you’re my fucking MAIN character now!”

oh SHIT that painted fucking FLAME UNIT YO I know that’s the enemy but YO

Wow the baby just fucking sending the flame back. I....can Jedi do that? Is that why I never see flamethrowers? Because everyone is like, “uhhh HAHA fuck that there’s a Jedi”

IG-11 staying with Din 😭😭😭😭

Me, looking away when Din’s helmet comes off: no I can’t, it’s disrespectful.

“No. Its kind were enemies. This individual is not.” Is so powerful it makes me want to CRY. No wait I am crying. It’s so... I. I think it’s the secret, close-knit sects and the raw pragmatism that makes me identify with them? (Pragmatism is for the marginalized and the oppressed.) And just. The concept of like... not being able to afford to treat people who resemble those who did you wrong as enemies. Not having the luxury of that is so. God.

Also I want to hear the songs about the Jedi and Mandalore the Great

“You expect me to search this galaxy for the home of this creature and deliver it to a race of enemy sorcerers?” “This is the Way.” God.

😭😭The mudhorn as a signet!!! “You are a clan of two”!!!!

Me, watching this Mandalorian forger fight with hammers and seeing her fucking SHATTER the armor of these stormtroopers and just thinking of that damn shitpost about warhammers being to, “crack the shell and get to the juicy knight meat inside.”

Anyway she’s rad as hell.

omg this fuckin ferry droid that looks like an astromech with arms and legs is killing me

wow IG-11 no....

Wow Din being sad...nooooo

DIN: I’m not...sad IG-11: Yes, you are. I’m a nurse droid. I analyzed your voice.

Noooo IG-11 😭😭

“I’m out of ideas.” DIN: I’m not ME: DIN THAT’S NOT AN IDEA BUD THAT’S-...well it worked out I guess..........

“And now that the scum and villainy have been washed away...” HEY HE SAID IT HE SAID THE THING

“You will have the pick of all quarries.” “I’m afraid I’m a dad now.” sorry is that not what happened? That’s what I heard.

Ohhh Giancarlo Esposito is back with a darksaber. Is that the first darksaber on screen? DIRECTED BY TAIKA WAITITI??? WAIT WHAT

#mdl

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elizabethrobertajones · 7 years

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I think Destiel is the show's end game but they want it to be the very last thing. So they set up the story around season 8/9 because they didn't really know if they were gonna get picked up and they had to dial it back up when it continued. Now it started again during season 12 knowing the show is gonna end in the next couple of years for sure without it being cancelled. Maybe? Thoughts? Love your meta!

Hi! Love you too!

I weirdly had a conversation about this yesterday in private so I’ve managed to actually coalesce some thoughts about this… Lots of thoughts.

Seeing as I joined fandom in the end of season 9, I basically joined a fandom that had been pretty hurt by the spec that season 8 might have been endgame if the show was cancelled… Obviously we’re never going to get any sort of statement on it until after we know the definitive line on whatever else they were doing with Destiel after the point it matters, so it’s going to be small potatoes if it was or not.

But I don’t particularly think that it actually WAS - and the different way Cas, and his and Dean’s relationship, was portrayed in season 8 immediately threw a whole bunch of fuel on the fire but it was shocking in a way that it was being given attention rather than specifically being romantic, and it’s hard to tell the two apart, especially when you’re looking in the subtext and seeing romantic stuff, which when you’re a starving shipper suddenly seems like a feast of both charged interaction AND the old subtext, which is suddenly slathered all over everything when Cas is a major part of Dean’s emotional arc for the first time (in a good way).

(LOTS more under the cut)

Whether there was an intent or not, season 8 changed the game and without knowing what they were doing or where it would lead (aka hello I am Hindsight from the future) it would look pretty shocking and suggestive that something might come of it. Because I know I’d flip out in the same scenario just from wondering, and kind of feel like I’m in the same place after season 12, because again it feels like the game changed.

I’m trying hard not to leap to conclusions to be honest, and I do *not* want to be in the middle of it which is partially why I’ve reacted so strongly to twice in the last month people using me as some sort of fandom leader whose words mean more than others’, because I really really hope not and I wish I didn’t have to disclaimer it because it makes my ego look enormous but on the other hand twice in a month is a pretty frightening wake up call about how people see me?

So.

Even if it was written with intent in season 8, we’re so far past the point that if that was their plan they could have delayed it over and over without doing something substantial *in Carver era* about it, that it twists the fandom narrative about this into the show being very cruel. This narrative is a great one for people who feel wanky, to feel like they’ve got justified reasons to be upset that it didn’t happen and that they’re getting strung along. I’m not saying everyone who thinks that Destiel was slated to go canon in season 8 does, but it is a great narrative for those who do to feel somewhat certain the show is deliberately dangling and then holding back on Destiel, because nothing bonds a community like feeling as if some more important group of people is mistreating them. Justified rage and all that. If you don’t like the show because you feel it got kinda shitty over the last few years but instead need to take it as a personal betrayal in order to break up with the show, it’s a great thing to get riled up about. The bait and switch seems clear to them, and there’s been many discussions of the way they seem to build up only to yank away, in every season since 8. And part of the build up is meta writers freaking out about how canon it all looks and being naturally excited to see what happens with the story they’ve been reading positively (and this isn’t our fault, though some people think we’re complicit in queerbaiting just by wanting to analyse the show and give any credit to teasing the ship by pointing out its structural integrity).

Some people who see the idea it was going to be canon in season 8 positively also tell this as a way of making themselves feel good that it has been on the books and therefore has a chance of going canon in the future.

You can get the same story of the show’s intent in two different places, but the ONLY way we can ever construct this narrative is by reading into the show and trying to guess at what they’re doing because they’ve never admitted to writing a Destiel narrative.

A side effect of the 9x03 wank was a bemused message from someone waaaay up the chain and out of the writers’ room, who said they’d never been pitched the story. I’m inclined to believe that, because I don’t believe in any conspiracy except for the NHI (shh don’t ask if you don’t remember :P), meaning that at no point in season 8 was it EVER anything more than subtextual fun from the writers among themselves. And nothing that was on the books at least in the first half of season 9. Like, at the most generous thought that it might be later if you REALLY want to go hard on theorising about what they’re up to, it wasn’t at that point.

(The NHI sprang from 10x10 so I’m covered there.)

(Also if you see people handwave 9x03′s wank as a conspiracy to cover it up and that it HAD been real but NDAs mean they’d say it wasn’t, don’t use a pinch of salt, put a whole salt circle around that thought and run away.)

Another thing about this sort of expectation or narrative is that I feel the recent meta writers wank has made it really obvious there’s still people in fandom hanging on for fanon content and character stanning who really don’t need more canon to unfurl, ever, and are only going to get more angry about it, and were hurt at some point in one of these mass-wanks about the show, probably one of these early positivity bubble bursts, but who nevertheless feel like meta still has some sort of mystical power or social influence or… something or other… that from how it sounds, seems like they were once all in on the “it should be canon at the end of season 8″ hype or equivalent for their season, and of course were shattered when it didn’t happen.

And if season 8 didn’t finish them off, later things did - season 9 was a horrific obstacle course even just with 9x03′s wank and then JIB at the end of the year and the “we don’t play it that way” comment. Which I am contractually obliged to repeat every time I quote Jensen to give context of “as in a secret relationship where they’ve been fucking off screen as per whatever dirty fanart he was shown to get the concept of what he thought Destiel was”

I am fairly certain that season 8 hype was partially manufactured (a Known Fandom Cultist was in the mix and the heady combination of a new big fandom flooding tumblr from Netflix and all the season 8 subtext AND the chance for attention and followers is a wonderful mix for exploitation when the fandom hasn’t been hurt before from this particular direction), and definitely this hype was used to whip the fandom up into a frenzy of expectation that a lot of people either innocently repeated or expanded on in their own meta because the idea sounded interesting or halfway plausible based on their theories (as it was a positive growth of Destiel subtext and narrative ANYWAY) or they thought we deserved the best world of the show, or else they weren’t meta writers and just read it and bought into it and allowed this narrative to have *incredible* power over them by putting all their thoughts into someone else’s basket, and sharing the ideas and being excited in gifsets and fic and other fandom contributions for how the show had become a romance overnight.

(Spoilers: it hadn’t.)

I don’t like theories which use abstract examples to hold up to the show like basic plot structures, character arc templates, etc, pretty much exactly for this reason, because you can ONLY apply those as analysis backwards on finished arcs without immediately being wrong about something, and that’s a generous thought for if you’re not trying to whip up a frenzy of enthusiasm for fake emotional currency of Tumblr followers :P Essentially I have no problem with meta written about this sort of thing so long as it isn’t “they ARE using this trope so this HAS TO MEAN that this WILL happen,” or “they ARE employing such and such narrative structure and that means they WILL do this next step exactly as it says here”

… I could crack open my copy of The Seven Basic Plots right, now, pick one at random, apply it to the season 13 spoilers with dead certainty that it all adds up to Destiel and cash in my entire reputation on a 1/7 chance of being utterly right that the structure will look like it’s going that way to the letter, and hope I’d only lose a third of my new followers in the resulting storm when I’m not right about the pay off :P

If you just think it’s interesting and might be USEFUL to try and UNDERSTAND what will happen next, then by all means as long as you’re not using it and hoping that it sounds academic will mean people without a good grounding in rationalising these things for themselves will just assume you’re smart and know what you’re talking about. And then you use it to push home ideas which you can’t possibly know like that Destiel is being built up to go canon at the end of the season/endgame or whatever, some people will go right along with it because it’s tantalising.

Whatever happened, though, I have heard more than enough since joining fandom about the end of season 8 wank and people quitting the fandom and basically the first positivity bubble shattering (over an episode I feel does no harm and considerable good to the ship without making it canon), so that even before season 9 the wank and bitterness about many things such as the disproportionate freak out about Tracey Bell being a love interest or rumours spread that April or Nora would be multi-episode love interests for Cas, had everyone behaving like the way fandom does before every season or character announcement now. Which is to get disproportionately upset about things which have not yet happened, because they’re already feeling *so hurt* by the things which have, for not living up to the expectations, that surely everything is IT, the END, the thing that will kill Destiel out of the show forever. Every female character is a threat and everyone’s always certain the show is out to damage the thing they love just out of spite.

(I know some people will pop up like, it’s not about the ship, it’s about Cas! but I really can not help feeling that it’s just a sliding of feelings from the ship, because of feeling Dean was horrible to Cas over season 9 and 10 for example, to being over-protective of Cas in particular, and, like, I get it. I do. I don’t feel it that way because I never got invested in any particular pay off that I then didn’t feel happened, and that by whatever point, Cas should be living with them or getting his own episodes on the regular or that Dean should have apologised for whatever, or that they should now be dating. I have a personal investment in this tailored to look for positive things and see good changes like Cas getting more episodes ABOUT him, a strong place in the narrative, a in-depth personal arc, and love from the cast and show. For others, almost nothing will go far enough towards what they want, so even these huge positive changes from what I experienced in season 10 as a Cas fan will get over the hurdle.)

I also think there’s a serious secondary problem that for some people the promise of “it’s going canon at the end of season 8″ turned into “well of course it got renewed so it’ll be whenever the show ends INSTEAD” but carried on essentially giving the same super positive message that Destiel was absolutely 100% on the mind of all the writers all the time as the overall conclusion of the character arc. Which is something you can almost never tell when people write about it and I think again is more like an idea that moved into general conversation so I don’t think there’s really anyone out there I encounter who is angling for anything. But it can be misleading about the concept that just because meta writers find a consistent narrative and are optimistic it will continue and be honoured through the show, that we’re saying that there’s a guaranteed endgame and everyone ought to hang onto it.

Honestly if you can’t hack the wait, I’d much rather people went full-fanon, didn’t cast opinions on the show at all, put away the negativity in favour of enjoying the stuff they like - fics, art, canon-free headcanons, etc, and when the end of the show came, if they even halfway liked the sound of what people were saying about it, went and re-watched from the start to re-immerse themselves and try a positive take on it knowing what they were in for, canon or not. I’ve stopped watching several times out of DGAF feelings towards the show (weird dog episodes :|) and come back and again I can’t really claim to have the most healthy attitude, everyone follow my lead, but I do think I can be objective and careful about how I engage with it and try and not get sucked into negativity OR positivity rollercoasters that only go to hurt town. >.>

I mean, I honestly feel in season 12, it’s the first time we’ve had an entire writers’ room of writers I even think *know* about it as a solid narrative construct (and yes I am including Buckleming because they DO write Destiel into the show, they just also write all the racism and rape and whatever else in along with it :P) Between the scattered application of serious subtext through Carver era and the approach to canon they occasionally winked at, they never seemed particularly competent at the work needed to actually make Destiel canon if it was EVER supposed to be building up towards it. I think the bait and switch yank away is too clever for them and their handling of the narrative :P I don’t think they’re stupid but, NHI aside, they are not up for complicated conspiracies.

To be serious, though… I know people say they saw it all the time from space, and their casual viewer mom did etc, but the fact remains they never wrote a CLEAR romance narrative except for the splitting Dean and Cas at the start of season 10 and *paralleling* their narratives with Crowley and Hannah, while everything else has been situational tropes or strong emotional narratives which could work either way. A slow burn romance in a show that will admit it’s one will use many similar tropes but also ones which expressly make it a romance that everyone’s supposed to read as happening, usually quite corny, on the nose ones, and Destiel has more of the subtextual or emotionally bonding romantic tropes than like… anything else ever… but very few of the “oops walked in on him changing, let me just accidentally turn around again on the way out the door” type nonsense that broadcasts to people on Mars that they’re going to bang, and probably soon. I say very few because there’s little outliers like the boner scene or “i can’t let you do this” which are copy pasted from corny romance, but of ALL the Destiel that happened in season 12, ONLY the mixtape crosses boundaries like that and even so people CAN argue it’s platonic love, and the only thing we can really say is nonsense is that it’s not conveying any love at all.

Something like Crowley mourning his romance with demon!Dean and looking at photos to some sort of “all by myself” level song was very clearly a rom com trope and the one that for me sealed the deal that Drowley was intentionally meant to be seen in canon. Something like Dean and Aaron is disproportionately powerful because their main interpersonal interaction was literally described as being something from a rom com BY the director’s commentary :P Destiel is a 10 year old behemoth, largely NOT defined by rom com tropes, but with a few peppered here and there in a low enough concentration that it’s not the absolute norm to assume it’s going to happen.

But in season 12, like in season 8, Cas got a LOT of attention in the story, a good chunk of that was through Dean because Dean’s got the old profound bond, and Cas and Dean are intrinsically and inseparably connected in some ways that no amount of bro-ing up with Sam or forging a tentative friendship with Mary will do to NOT make it seem like Cas is talking to Dean first and foremost, especially when all 3 Winchesters pile through the door and Cas just says “Dean” :P

This season has a STRONG narrative about Cas’s relationship to the Winchesters and through Dean in particular, and there’s one of the stand out romantic tropes in basically ever in this season, along with several other hallmarks of the things that made season 8 such fertile ground.

12x10 had the crypt scene rehash to hopefully end these loops around Dean and Cas with the positive conclusion it needed, and a lot of the meta about season 8 flipped out about the human/supernatural relationships (with Charlie and Gilda foreshadowing the crypt scene perfectly, because Robbie) so 12x10 filled in a missing link from season 8, of a story about how angels might be into humans too.

And it was the season with Aaron which was Dean’s personal stand out bi moment which made a lot of people feel the show was going to start taking it seriously on his behalf, and season 12 had Aaron back, even if it was only one scene, it was a reminder he existed and the main interesting context for most people was him and Dean.

And season 8 had the angel fall spell, including the cupid nonsense in 8x23, and the nephilim which was the early forerunner of the suggestion of 12x10, that angels and humans can couple up, while in season 12 the angel fall spell was directly mentioned, 12x15 mirrored the first Hell trial, nephilim were back, and Crowley offered to close the gates of Hell. So season 8′s mytharc was slathered all over the season.

And in the crypt scene Dean was supposed to say “I love you” and in 12x12 they found a way to make Cas say it instead, which I agree was the more logical progression, that Cas would crack first :P

Anyway, season 8 was all over this season but season 12 felt amped up and going places season 8 didn’t, going several steps further and as I’ve said before to go straight from season 8 meta mindset to season 12, would utterly blow your mind.

BUT to go right back to the start, I don’t think season 8 was building to canon Destiel ever, not even as a failsafe for cancelleation. I don’t think that the planned “I love you” was going to do more than make the fight about canon that much more bloody if it aired and doesn’t help even without it airing, knowing it was going to happen. Jensen was the one who argued it away, and they agreed for character reasons supposedly, so there was no meddling from above to say, wait, hit the brakes, we can’t barrel right into the canon build up.

I think season 8 was supposed to be used to bring Cas back in from the cold - kind of literally with using Purgatory to stagger his return - because after season 6 & 7 showing Dean cared about him in ANY way was important, and to establish that whatever Cas had done, Dean would forgive and want to rescue him and have him back in the family. I don’t think season 8 is a clean slate for Cas despite his attempt to put on the old uniform and carve a new path for himself in like… 2 episodes after he got back while he was still being fucked around with by Heaven unknowingly to him. He’s still burdened with guilt, and if anything, the season renewal is probably more to blame for stretching out Dean forgiving him than smooching him, with a lil more manufactured drama and Dean lashing out at him for season 6 & 7 in 8x22. He lashes out again in 9x22, but by season 10 he’s pretty much moved on, to be angry about like… everything else to push Cas away at the end of the season. I guess they’re living in the moment rather than the past by 10x22 :P Pfft. Sorry, got to be facetious about some things here.

I think the focus on Cas in season 8 was much more about his repentance and forgiveness from others - Metatron snags him by seeing he still wants to repent for Heaven, WHILE he’s in the gas station trying to buy stuff to repent to Dean for OTHER stuff. I think it makes perfect sense to read the season 8 narrative as a strong emotional narrative between Dean and Cas specifically engineered to delve into their relationship issues, let Cas back in to TFW, let him back into Dean’s heart, and try and establish for US what Cas is truly like as we’ve never been so deep in his head as in season 8 as a whole, except for in 6x20 where we learned A: he loved them and Dean in particular, and B: he was busy lying and betraying them and justifying it all on the slimmest reasons to keep himself going. If you love Cas, 6x20 is a goldmine. If you’re indifferent or don’t like him, as a one episode event, it might not warm your heart especially with the end of season 6 and his resulting failures, especially perceived moral ones against his friends.

Season 8 let us right into Cas and showed us his inner processes, desires, and a narrative about how he wanted to do penance for season 6 and 7, and a feeling that Sam and Dean love him back, of course, but to them Cas is still a shaky person to depend on and Dean is going a great deal on faith that Cas is good even while thinking he’s sketchy and lying the entire time between 8x07 and 8x17, showing a conflict between Dean’s baseline faith in Cas and Cas’s behaviour towards them. Being in his head and seeing Naomi all season makes US insiders to Cas’s issues and puts us on his side firmly by knowing WHY he’s acting this way, so it’s a good storyline to nurture us through Dean’s issues with Cas while being given an inside line to being sympathetic to Cas since we know what Dean doesn’t about how he’s being controlled the entire time.

Taken in that spirit, I can see the show just wanting to reconcile TFW and Dean and Cas in particular as a goal to shoot towards and the conclusion might just have been that they all make it good before whatever ending they had in mind for the main plot stuff. Along with a healthy dose of subtext to keep you guessing about how that relationship was.

Anyway, as I said, I don’t like subscribing to theories which are too speculative and treating them like they’re too real and like… definitely what the show is doing… makes me really itchy for the above reasons in the fan wank section of this reply… so the one that Destiel is now being woven into season 12 to the same way it was in season 8 to the eventual aim of canon puts me off for the reasons I hope you can guess from all that rambling :P

Even if I have hope that it MIGHT be on the books doesn’t mean I’ll really commit to saying it’s narratively going anywhere for sure, because that seems like a great way to start a cult and end up in the shame bin and reviled by people one day. I want to see fandom through to the end of the show and see what happens with you all, so short-sighted plans about building a rocket to Mars in my back yard seems like a great way to end up sitting in a fizzled out rocket still on the ground in my yard with a bunch of people who want their money back :D

I do think the endgame the show is working towards is going to be positive for Destiel fans and probably at the very least a good final touching moment, although I think the show will pretty much certainly end on Sam and Dean together as the sign off moment, even if the moment before that is Dean smooching Cas in the kitchen before grabbing a couple of beers to go hang with his brother just the 2 of them out on the front porch of their weirdo hunter commune house. Or whatever happens. But you know, even in the Destiel is totally canon and it all ends happily world, it’s not ABOUT them, it’s about Sam and Dean and as much as it’s about everyone else they love too, they’d be there to show there’s a world for them to save/that they have saved and can retire to, if Mary and Cas survive to the end.

But there are many subtextual ways between that hazy dream ending and, like, total character death save the world through mass sacrifice kinda ending, and all of which can make Destiel look like it was where things were/would have gone. At the current point in canon you can say the exact same thing, which is the point I was making that went right over some heads where they got fixated on me dancing gleefully around Cas’s dead body fulfilling my prophecy or whatever. If the show ended there, with the way Dean and Cas were connected over the season, you could argue their hearts belonged to each other, but they never got a chance to really do anything about it.

It’s the shitty subtextual Cas is dead ending I’d always dreaded if the show really wanted to fuck with us, but it’s one they could have done, and it would have left things open ended enough for academics and fans and whoever else to yell forever about if it had all meant what we thought it did, to a collection of contradictory comments from cast and crew.

The only way is up from here for Cas’s personal development, seeing as he’s finally doing the truly transformative death experience, and Cas’s personal development is where Destiel subtext is most closely tied, while Dean’s personal development has been a mess of performing Dean and bi Dean and issues with his parents and the codependency, and he’s opening up like a beautiful flower, but it’s still largely a sort of concept that Destiel can just sort of happen when Dean’s got far enough down the line on dealing with all these issues as a kind of lump problem, and Cas’s arc is much more mythological, tied into identity and belonging, but the target has been clear since like… 4x22… (and I mean “clear” rather than “oh shit it’s going to haaaappen” like it is from the start of the season :P) that it’s going to all land on Dean. And clear since like… idk, 6x20? that the feeling is pretty romantic from his end so in an ideal world he lands on Dean romantically.

And all subsequent positive development on the ship’s possibility has been clearing hurdles and tidying up character development that’s all pretty much check lists made back in season 8 or after the wank when with clearer heads people began to wonder just what was standing in the way of them if they were going to go canon, but not right then. Stuff like Claire and the vessel occupancy issue. Or the slow progress of Cas putting words to his family to call them that and the Bunker home and so on. Steps that all the stretching of the story has let them explore in minute detail.

So I can see that it’s possible that this all develops into something that works incredibly well for the chances of Destiel and since season 10 I’ve had the suspicion, thanks to Claire and the Dean-focused character development episodes, that they were working on the same tick list as us. But I’m not sure if it will pay off exactly as we want to see, while at the same time being over the moon delighted when another step forward happens. And season 12 moved a lot of ground, some of it unexpectedly quickly, and other things like, unburying them from ruts they’d been stuck in forever.

I don’t think going on from here season 13 will be immediately disappointing if Cas and Dean aren’t desperately romantically linked all the time because the show still acts like they have their own personal dramas when it’s not letting them see each other as the only people in a room. I don’t think it would be very productive to tally up events as if they’re constructing a narrative where we have to wait for pay off at a very set date, because even though I think that pay off will come at a very set date if we’re lucky and they honour their subtext. The show doesn’t seem to have an end, I honestly don’t trust Dabb as far as I can throw him not to just randomly make Destiel canon because he thinks it’ll be funny and make us happy because I have no grasp on his showrunning except he’s a massive troll with his finger on the fandom pulse. And honestly I don’t get much pleasure from constructing the elaborate forward narratives when I can be much more excited about the immediate stuff, living in the moment, and taking the Destiel subtext as it comes.

After the mixtape moment there was a lot of spec about if we’d see it again or what it meant building forwards, and I felt it wasn’t going to be mentioned again, and that it was much more valuable for that moment and what it told us about Dean and Cas, than using it for a forwards sign, which to me often just means taking quick stock of a thing happening in present canon then barrelling ahead into the future. While to me the richness in the story is wallowing in what has been opened up about the past, about Dean making the mixtape, when he gave it to Cas, and all the backstory implied by the 5 second moment of that exchange, because it implies so much more going backwards than it ever meant going forwards, as it wasn’t mentioned again all season. We could go forwards knowing Dean and Cas were at the sort of stage of the relationship where mixtapes happen in such a way, but we can’t use it to divine an entire forward plot about it, because that way lies the sort of “make everything Cas ever does about guinea pigs and bees” nonsense because fixating on passing moments as information about character stuff we need to know for later, that there’ll be a bigger pay off later, to me does sort of ruin the fun of the present.

There’s manageable foreshadowing and speculation like guessing what the turducken sign is all about, because its original context was very Destiel, and there’s stuff like guessing about the PB&J where it has so many contexts that even when it connects to Cas I saw that as somewhat connecting him with *Kevin* and lil baby Sam in 9x07 when Cas was eating it in 9x11, and the Destiel connection was the link to humanity, and Dean as being somewhat connected as the PB&J provider to their weirdo family. But he also brought Kevin prune juice as a far more loving gesture, you know? :P Until we have context on these things I hate to get invested in many forward spec things as Destiel related or feeding a larger narrative.

I also think there’s a big difference between meta and spec and I am much more comfortable offering analysis of what has already happened and maybe venturing an idea of how things will play out but not wedding myself to it, especially as that’s how I’ve seen people get fandom burn out, and also I hate looking wrong :P So for my own ego, again, it’s nice to sit and enjoy spec as entertainment but not get so involved I’m writing convoluted theories about it.

Tl;dr, I’m hopefully understandably wary about what canon positivity can do to a fandom, even just from second-hand tales and snooping old blogs back in season 9 when it was all a bit closer to the surface. I have a very comfortable place I’m sitting, which has been rocked about a bit by how on the nose season 12 was, but until I can be sure I really do not want to ever commit to a speculation about anything being set up for canon that we can see in the narrative. I think we’re at an AMAZING place with where we’ve progressed in canon but I’m trying so so hard to keep it contained as if season 12 is where it all ends for now, and I will try and take each episode as it comes when it’s what people might read about what happens next with Destiel, because none of us are qualified to answer it. And the meta community seems to be in a really weird place again with an up surge in positivity that’s making the gold standard of speculation rise, and I’d rather learn from the past and be OVER CAREFUL than get involved in a huge fandom fuck up about all this :P And I hope if I really am supposedly that influential, I can try and be an example of not counting chickens, even when I think I’m holding a very full basket.

#Asks #riverboat gambling #you could probably scroll that tag to see me wizening up like a walnut #season 13 speculation #destiel

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catty-words · 7 years

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hello new friend please talk to me about rebecca/nathaniel from CEG

I WOULD LOVE TO

i’m high key in r/n mode right now. i’ve watched ‘josh is the man of my dreams, right?’ an embarrassing number of times in the last week (like…at least once a day help i have a sickness)

aaaaaaaaaannnyyyway, this means i have a lot of thoughts. let’s go chronologically!

first of all, their instant attraction to each other (and i don’t even mean ‘let’s have intercourse’ type attraction necessarily – more like the way they’re drawn to each other in general) fills my heart. nathaniel’s known rebecca for, like, five minutes before he starts being jealous and snarky about josh

and let’s talk about josh…nathaniel’s introduction happens during the episode where josh and rebecca get together for real for the first time in the series. they have a legit, both-people-understand-this-is-a-committed-relationship relationship and it’s EXTREMELY new. yet, rebecca practically isn’t paying any attention to josh because nathaniel is the only thing on her radar.

sure there’s the whole ‘my friends could get fired and i need to help them’ angle, but also? when she’s in bed with josh all she can talk about is nathaniel himself and how he’s dumb and plays water polo etc. so part of her fixation is definitely about the man and not just about the situation.

moving on to the next episode, they only have one scene together, but nathaniel’s still jealous and definitely bending over backward to get her approval/attention. (pls see this gifset for an absurd thing he says to her in their one scene and its hilarious implications)

more importantly, though, this episode is full of hints at their similar issues. binge eating when upset. unhealthy relationships with parents. how deep their misery goes once you break away bits of the front they put up.

so by the time we get to ‘josh is the man of my dreams, right?’ these two have a really interesting connection that’s bubbling beneath the surface. it’s barely been touched on, but there’s something there

which, of course, EXPLODES when we get to see their chemistry. everything from the interested-in-your-boobs stare to ‘i like to saturate the wood’ to the way they slowly inch closer together when they’re sitting on the elevator floor crackles with that chemistry. it’s SO GOOD. honestly, i can never be very articulate about it because it just works for me. there is no way to explain you just gotta *gestures at this episode* LOOK at them. don’t you feel it???

and we definitely have to talk about ‘let’s have intercourse’ because i love the choreography so much. it’s suggestive, but never in a vulgar way. it’s all so pretty and i’m 100% about that #aesthetic

PLUS (this the last thing i have to say about this episode…….for now) have you ever seen a man YEARN so obviously as nathaniel plimpton the third when rebecca tells him she’s getting married in two weeks and he sTARES OFF AFTER HER??

i swear his expression is torture

ugh, wait, one last thing - THAT KISS

okay so now we’re up to ‘is josh free in two weeks?’ and WHOO BOY i am here to tell you that this episode almost knocks out ‘josh is the man of my dreams, right?’ as my favorite rebecca/nathaniel episode. IT’S THAT GOOD

first we have (sad, unstable) rebecca casually referring to nathaniel as ‘foine’

but more importantly there’s the scene where nathaniel’s trying to do work and he just…can’t focus because all his brain has to offer is rebeccarebeccarebecca. he’s suffering and i LOVE IT. especially because he’s so lost in thoughts of rebecca that he talks to himself out loud in his office and then seems so shaken? it’s incredible how rattled he is to feel something for her

and not just a sexy something! the fact that ‘i never even wash my hands’ makes it into his flashback montage and not, idk, rebecca on top of him reads to me like he’s just as attracted to her ability and professional acumen as he is to her heavy boobs (dense like dying stars)

i’m gonna let my tags about THIS SCENE do all the talking because i have nothing else to add a.klbnsd;glb

just kidding, i will repeat one thing: he wanted to see her so bad

AND THEN much later in the episode, he’s the one she chooses to open up to about her dad not coming to the wedding and how that hurts her feelings.

what does nathaniel do with this information? HE GETS HER DAD TO FUCKING SHOW UP i’m-

please enjoy this gifset of them hugging

while we’re on the topic of the hug, can we talk about his surprised smile and the fact that nathaniel probably hasn’t received many hugs, like, at all?

which brings us to the season finale. their moments are few and far between, but they say a lot….mostly about nathaniel. rebecca has other shit going on.

anyway, nathaniel coming to her rehearsal and all but begging for rebecca’s attention? again, he’s suffering and i LIVE FOR IT

and finally!! the solidarity he shows for her when he won’t give her dad his plane and calls him a dick!!! he is on her side 100% and lsdkfnb;dsgl SEASON THREE IS GOING TO BE INCREDIBLE

that, um, got out of hand but i have one last thing. if you like fic, i have written this one-shot here.

and i’m in the process of writing what will probably be a three-part little thing and there are plans to include some classic bed sharing so…get hyped!

#rebecca x nathaniel #crazy ex girlfriend #long post #kalinda #replies #thanks for letting me ramble about these two #as you may be able to tell #i have a lot of feelings

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bartsugsy · 7 years

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Is it just me or is anyone else so offended by Rebecca's character because she is such a pale shadow of female representation? I'm outraged that in the 21st century a woman can be not even a set of character traits, but literally a walking (nice dressed) uterus who bends in the wind. No agency whatsoever. Deplorable! Rebecca makes me miss the 90s and the riot grrrl movement. She makes me want to daub myself in blood and put on a baby doll dress and scream into the abyss. What were they thinking?

ah anon, you know i can’tresist a good rebecca ask. it’s my weakness.

and like... you’re really not wrong.

i mean, i don’t know if it offends me - well, yes, it does, buti think rebecca was brought in for a few specific narrative purposes and iguess that’s ok in and of itself, but they’ve never fleshed her out into muchof a real character beyond those purposes so she exists in her currentiteration as a supporting character and they don’t seem to have any desire tochange that. which. just makes it uncomfortable, the more you think about it. andapparently I’ve thought about it a bunch.

i think the other thing is… those narrative purposes she has aremostly related to male characters. they’ve fleshed this out a little but mostlyshe’s been fairly irrelevant to every storyline - except one. there is onestoryline in which she is completely necessary in her function and it is clearly entirely the reason why she was brought in in the first place.

what i’m saying is that rebecca white literally exists todevelop robert sugden as a character and prop up his relationship with aaron.

(you could maybe argue that she is important to the whitestorylines but those have had very little long term affects beyond the waysthat link robert to the whites. i want to go into this more but i need toactually rewatch her white storyline stuff first, so maybe i’ll change my mind,but tbh it feels more like… her relationship with her family is a by-product ofbringing her in for her main purpose of affecting robert and robron. again,that’s for another post)

but that in turn leads to her being written like an inconsistentplot device. i think i’ve sort of developed enough of a fanwanky reasoningbehind her actions so far, but it doesn’t work as well as i’d like. it doesessentially boil down to her being in love with robert, though - she’s, ithink, actually a very tragic character and i have a lot of sympathy for her -but it takes a hell of a lot of mental gymnastics constantly to bring me backto that place, because the show doesn’t care enough to do it for us. and it’sannoying. because i do think they could make her story so compelling if theywanted to.

but ultimately they wouldn’t, because robert is in many ways avillain in her story and the story they want to tell is more robert being avillain in his own story (and again, that’s another post all on its own).they’re not telling rebecca’s story. not at all.

anyway! basically. female character essentially being the toolthe show uses to explore male character robert and his relationships. great. gr e a t.

and because what’s the point in making big sweeping contentiousstatements if you can’t back them up:

so the big thing the show has tried to drill into our headsrepeatedly is that robert was with chrissie for her money and her power,largely. he loved her in his own way, but he loved himself way more. he flirtedhis way up the company through lawrence, exploiting lawrence’s complicatedfeelings about his own sexuality and attraction to robert (see: the iconicscene close to the beginning of ryan!robert’s introduction where he saysexactly that to larry and suddenly we are given a window into why exactlylawrence hates robert so vehemently, to the point of faking a heart attack tostop his first attempt to marry chrissie). saw an opening and got with chrissieand then rebecca and then eventually chose chrissie, who undoubtedly has moreof a pull in the running of the company and more access to the money, as opposedto free-spirited rebecca, who we’ve seen is not at all competent at working inthe business and has very little overall experience with it.

we see robert repeatedly reaping the benefits of the whites’money and power - and the position that we know he is in fact very good at,thereby earning his own money on top of that (but again - in a position hefasttracked his way to via chrissie and lawrence).

anyways (you already know this is gonna be long af bc look howmuch im rambling) we see, particularly in the argument after chrissie finds outabout the home farm robbery and his reaction to almost dropping the cheque shegives him - and really everything robert does in that break up with chrissie,when he’s desperate to get his old life back, that robert ultimately cares moreabout the money than he does about his wife.

fast forward to robert post-coma, post-redemption arc and nowfully committed to being in a relationship with aaron. he still loves money andfights hard to make as much of it as possible, usually still somehow at theexpense of the whites, but we as an audience don’t have any solid proof thatrobert really cares more about aaron than he does about his og love, money.

we’ll come back to this in asecond, but the other thing we see in robert’s relationship with chrissie isthat he never exactly had any compunction to remain faithful to her. he says to aaronearly on (in the barn) that he has had a bunch of one night stands, but neveranything beyond that, which is the first indication to the audience that somehowaaron is different for robert. we later learn that he did in fact also sleepwith rebecca multiple times. according to robert, it was all before he andchrissie got serious, whatever that means in rob’s mind , at which pointhe stopped, although we also know that he and rebecca had sex at rob andchrissie’s engagement party (side note, my best guess - that was the last time they slepttogether and also when he knocked her up the first time).

anyways, outside of rebecca and later, aaron, robert had alsohad a bunch of one night stands and just… generally couldn’t keep it in hispants.

again, robert and aaron later become a real couple, long afterhe and chrissie are over for the last time and robert doesn’t seem to beinterested in anyone else (at all, he basically puts his life on hold tosupport aaron throughout the first part of 2016). but - equally, he’s never putin a situation where he’s had the chance.

bringing this back to rebecca - one of the first things she doesis show that she is working with robert to take down chrissie - she’s angry atchrissie for not telling her about lawrence getting shot, or anything that’sbeen going on (and - it’s chrissie that she wants to hurt, not larry or lucky,so we’re once again treated to two girls treating each other like shit for abit, joy of joys) and she wants to help robert get chrissie her comeuppance andalso protect her inheritance. robert brought her in and robert is the onlycharacter she’s not lying to, when she first comes to the village. her sceneswith her family all have the undertone of the fact that she is doing thisbecause robert convinced her to - it’s all about robert’s revenge, narrativelyspeaking.

to bring back my earlier points about robert’s love of money andinfidelity, a lot of her early scenes exist to set the stage for robertproposing in ssw and to show the audience that rob has, in fact, changed - sheoffers him all of home farm, all of that power back, and he says no. she triesto sleep with him repeatedly and he turns her down again and again.

and this pattern continues - she keeps pushing him and he flirtsback, kisses her even - his stupid way of keeping her inside so that they caneventually clear andy’s name, as he says to her when he finally shuts her downonce and for all outside the courthouse. the lines he says to her repeatedlyare things about how important aaron is to him - the show starts to build upthis picture that aaron is special to robert, but also robert is still hisrobert sugden-y self and isn’t above doing stupid things or pushing his stupidplans too far in order to get his way.

like. god i’m not going to list them all THIS IS LONG AND EXTRA TM ENOUGH but there are literallygifsets that exist of all the ways robert proclaims his love for aaron torebecca. so much of their scenes are used to both strengthen our knowledge ofhow much robert loves aaron and also to sow those seeds that robert does stupidand reckless things at the expense of that relationship sometimes - that heloves aaron but he sure as hell also loves money too.

but - again - in the narrative, we’ve been shown repeatedly thatwhen push comes to shove, robert always chooses aaron, that he doesn’t have anydesire to be unfaithful to aaron and he won’t choose money over hisrelationship. even when he was unfaithful, it was basically the product of an emotional breakdown as opposed to his apparent motivation of eh this person is hot and i’m bored why not when he was with chrissie.

and rebecca is the tool that leads the show to show us that so so often.similarly, rebecca is the catalyst for aaron’s jealousy and his eventual prisonstoryline.

everything since her entrance has slowly allowed the show tobuild up to aaron and robert breaking up. every one of their storylines hastied into that, or somehow been driven by her presence. every single one. andthe thing is… it’s nothing to do with who she even is - beyond that initialmanipulative streak she had which has disappeared entirely, it seems.

i know i’ve spoken a lot about her lack of agency as acharacter (and... just about her in general... here here here here here here here here and here are some casual examples... jfc...), so i don’t want to rehash that aspect but… it is more than that,isn’t it? it’s not just her lack of agency - it’s that, while she is absolutelyCRUCIAL to everything that has happened to robert and aaron and the constantcatalyst for every bad decision they’ve made, to showing us the ways thatthey’re not working, it’s not about who she is. who she is is irrelevant. theonly thing she ever needed to be was in love with robert and passive enough tokeep getting pulled back into his orbit and to help him do his bidding,regardless of how he has treated her. she never needed to be more than that andshe really… isn’t, in all honesty. again, i spoke earlier this week about herlack of core characteristics and that plays into that. more than that, eventhough she is the character that has been driving robert and aaron into Troublewith a capital T over and over, none of it has ever really been about her.

mostly - mostly it’s been about showcasing problems that alreadyexisted between them, working towards potentially resolving those issues, or atleast highlighting that they exist.

one argument to the above - recently it has become more abouther in the sense that aaron says that robert sleeping with rebecca inparticular, as his ex and as the catalyst for aaron’s initial jealousy - androbert being tied to her in particular with a baby, was so much more painfuland untenable to him than it might have been, had rob instead slept with arandom.

(it would never have been a random though because as the showtold us, even robert and rebecca sleeping together wasn’t about rebecca - itwas about robert in pain and wanting to hurt aaron. rebecca was an easy targetfor robert - the only thing she needed to be, in that episode, was desperatelyin love with robert enough to ignore any moral compunction she initially had tonot sleep with an emotionally destroyed dude who was married to someone sheproclaimed to like, which she was).

again - it always, always comes down to aaron and in particular,robert. and MORE THAN THAT, we now have robert on screen, being shown in apretty sympathetic light (for rob), in agony over the loss of aaron, once againallowing robert to show character development, to show his absurd love foraaron. and getting into spoiler territory, we know he’s going to get pulledback into the white orbit in a particularly 2015, pre aaron’s good influenceway - something made particularly possible by this brand new unshakeable bondto the whites through his son, who is currently chilling inside rebecca

(although you would never know if from her outfits)

none of rebecca’s story has been about rebecca. she’s pregnantand they haven’t even shown that really - not much beyond the fact that herfamily are supportive and the ways in which it has affected aaron and robert.

she just. she exists for robert and aaron and their story.possibly also the end of the whites, but that’s to be seen. that’s it. andthat… kind is really offensive.

or at least, it’s just writing that is very careless towards afemale character - something which is incredibly prevalent across the show as awhole, but particularly irksome here because this is the storyline we reallycare about lmfao

#yes so this is well over 2000 words #which is absurd #but i had a good time writing and that's what really counts isn't it #emmerdale meta #answering anons

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jesterlady · 5 years

Text

Avengers Endgame Review

So it's finally time, I am about to give the world my review and feelings of Endgame. I've had this swirling around in my head for weeks but am finally ready to give it voice. I've seen the movie twice and there are obviously massive spoilers ahead so read at your own risk.

First off, I like this movie. It's a good movie despite the sadness and the stupid time travel, so when I criticize it, know I still enjoyed it. I think it's a beautiful crowning achievement, the end of an era of the MCU. In many ways I wish it was the end of the MCU, it would be fitting and sometimes things should end. I laughed and cried and cheered with everyone and seeing it opening weekend was absolutely an amazing experience. For a full time fan it had some amazing fanservice and callbacks.

I also want to point out that I am usually incredibly good at liking a movie on its own terms. Even if something doesn't make sense or doesn't make sense in our world, so long as that universe has claimed it as its own, I'll put on my suspension of disbelief and shrug my shoulders and say, 'whatever you say, squire.' So really I'm the type of person who should be okay with the way they handled time travel in this movie. Spoiler, I'm not. I'll go into all of that.

Let's get the generals out of the way. Visually it's fantastic, acting its ass off, I'm okay with the writing, I laughed at all the funny bits, it's heartwarming and gives all the feels. Love the music, love the cinematography, all that jazz.

Character looks changes since, wow, there were a lot:

Steve: Thank you, Cap, for shaving the beard. Chrevans is a fine looking man with a beard but it does not scream clean linen and fresh apple pie and I need my Cap that way.

Natasha: I'm actually a fan of the red ombre look, Katniss braid and all. It's pretty and I need her red because the blonde was not good, not good at all. I know people complain about hair not growing out that slow, but I think it's a good symbol, Natasha caught between two worlds, the old and the new, becoming more herself, but unable to let go of the past. And it's red and it's pretty.

Clint: Yeah, the mohawk grew on me. I actually think when you see it moving and in action, it works, it's only in the pictures and promos that it just looks weird. I feel like the tattoo sleeve was a bit much. (That can't come off so easy post-snap, Clint!) His Ronin suit was cool; I would have liked to have seen more of it.

Carol: I don't like the haircut. That's it; I just don't like the look. But whatever. I think it's kind of pointless other than to emphasize again time has passed, but they were hammering that point in hard enough without that reminder. But honestly, I don't care.

Bruce: So, this is more about my feelings on Bruce in the movie than his look, but it's all tied up in his look so I'll put it here. I am leery of Professor Hulk. I'm gonna go with Valkyrie, better either of the other ways. The CGI was really cool, but I think it says something alarming about how Bruce is handling his situation and his solution…is not good. We'll skip over how he magically invented a Gammatron thing to accomplish this and go into how it directly goes against what had been happening in the MCU so far and how Bruce/Hulk is handled in the comics. The best way is when Bruce and Hulk both develop as individuals and come to a symbiotic understanding, two beings sharing a body. Eddie and Venom style. Hulk had been given his own story in Ragnarok and had his own path as evidenced by him hiding in IW. Now, there is no Hulk. It's Bruce wearing a Hulk suit, just like him wearing Tony's armor. That almost feels like murder to me. My mom said she thought Bruce had more Hulkish characteristics now, okay, maybe, but I think it's more like him acting a part now that he's Professor Hulk and feels like he beat the beast. My theory is supported by the fact that when the Ancient One astral planes him, it's only Bruce that comes out of the body. Now, I'm happy he's happy, but I think they went the wrong way on this one.

Thor: Loving the long hair again, though I wish he'd brush it a bit, hate the beard. The lightning makeover made it very cool with the Viking look, but otherwise, please shave immediately! You know, it was funny for him to be so out of shape, it was also sad because it showed how depressed he really was. I am okay with the jokes and don't think it was wrong for us to think it funny because we're conditioned to think that Chris Hemsworth with his shirt off is supposed to be the latest in hunk. Did they have to joke about it as much as they did? Probably not, but I don't think it was horrendous and body shaming and he clearly does need to get more healthy in body and mind. I fully expect and will be fine with, if we see him again, him being unmelted ice cream.

Superficial out of the way, let's walk through the movie and then dive into the time travel issues.

Okay, Tony and Nebula dynamic is the best and I would have wanted so much more of that. Tony leaving the message for Pepper is all the feels.

Did Carol go looking for them or just find them? It doesn't really matter, but I'd still like to know. With Pepper being at the compound I'm thinking yes.

Poor Steve and Tony, that was not a good reunion, and I don't like Tony yelling at Steve, but I can understand it in his frame of mind.

Going off to kill Thanos, yay! Okay, so all along I've been pulling for Nebula to kill Thanos and honestly, she deserves it. Second in line, Thor. So I was glad Thor did that, but poor Nebula. She's such a beautiful character and so tragic and I just wish there had been a bit more catharsis for her other than the potential of acceptance and pride she didn't need and blood splattering her face. I mean, ouch! My ultimate version of a Thanos death in this movie would have been both Nebulas and past Gamora killing him with help from Thor.

And Five Years Later. Lol, the audience was all what! I'm all, duh!

So yeah, a rat really did save the world, you guys. I mean, come on! Poor Scott. Though I am thinking, okay, the world is clearly a trashpile now and yet we had the resources to create giant monument graveyards presumably all over the world? Also, his reunion with Cassie was sweet, but I'm sorry, I can't help but mourn the loss of the munchkin. That actress was super adorbz and now we'll never see her again and I am not okay with that. Also, I really feel like that new Cassie was way too old looking. (Guys, I'm not good with ages, but little Cassie was like 6, 5 years makes her 11, that girl was clearly 15 or 16. Though again...seeing as how Harley looks way too old to me as well and that's the actual actor, what do I know?)

Love the team effort spread out over the globe and universe. It's also a good way to handle Carol. Over-powered characters are so difficult to handle because then there is no conflict, so it was good to show her off saving the whole universe (honestly just like she's apparently been doing this whole time).

Oh Nat. Her and her sandwich. Her and Clint! Finally this movie gives me the Clint/Natasha content I deserve and then rips my heart from me. She's handling this burden but her partner is lost and that's what's breaking her and I can't handle it!

Her and Steve's friendship has always been aces and I loved that scene.

Scott there to save the world and he's so refreshing and then on to Tony and it's so precious he has little Morgan and they did a good job showcasing that he is handling this the best of anyone and honestly deserves to.

Nat is wearing the arrow necklace again!!!!

I'm glad Tony said no, but honestly, it's so like him to have a problem and need to fix it. And Pepper is such a queen, such an amazing giver, and the world doesn't deserve her.

We've gone over my feelings on Bruce (the joke with him and Scott went on way too long and was not funny. Also, thank you for only doing the barest of alluding to a Bruce/Nat romance.)

Tony and Steve scenes are the best and I love them rebuilding something and Steve getting the shield back.

Tokyo in the rain kills me. Okay, so let's talk a bit about Clint here. I am not a fan of the farm, I wish the farm had never happened and I like to live in a world where it didn't. In fact that gifset where Clint introduces Laura as his sister is my preferred canon and I think would have done the trick in his grief spiral. Personally, I don't have any issues with a Ronin lifestyle and my only worry is what it's doing to his psyche. Oh, but them in the rain, my feels, my feels, my feels. Honestly, the world is chaotic now and needs a bit of vigilante justice.

Thor and New Asgard. My first thought is that while obviously the most decimated people in the universe, the Asgardians really lucked out coming to earth when they did, because at what other time would we have accepted an alien race landing on earth to come and live with us without freaking out? I don't even know how there are any left anyway because clearly so many died in Ragnarok and then half of them were wiped out by Thanos (pre-snap, remember, so did they come back?! Not likely unless Bruce (who was there) included them, but still unlikely.) Then the half that were left...were on a ship that got completely destroyed and left Thor floating in space. So all I'm saying is they did not take care of continuity for this people and they were the real victims of the MCU.

But clearly some escaped and I find it hilarious Thor is a depressed bum playing video games and it's so so sad at the same time and I just want to wrap him up and let him rest. Honestly, Thor has lost everything and it's no wonder he's a giant mess and he deserves to be. I'm also glad he didn't magically buck up, because honestly no one would.

The PLAN:

Them all planning together is so cute and a bit smart and good times apart from their ridiculous time travel premise we'll get into later. I do want to be very clear here, Nebula did not know about the price for the soul stone or she would have told them. There's no way she could have known.

Let's go over each era individually.

2012

You remember 2012 right? It was glorious. I don't care what you think about Joss Whedon or the rest of the MCU, 2012 was magic. In fact right after watching Endgame, I went home and read all my fave gen domestic team tower fic and I needed it. So the fanservice was lovely and seeing behind the scenes almost of what we loved was the best. Everyone was perfect. Hulk and the stairs, Thor and his hammer, Tony giving himself a heart attack, Cap in the elevator, America's ass, Loki and the tesseract, even being reminded that Hydra was in SHIELD at the time. Apart from the time travel issues, it was all wonderful.

I’ve seen a lot of people point out how they didn’t like Steve in 2012 and how Endgame Steve was annoyed at himself, but I don’t see it. 2012 Steve is perfection, fight me.

I liked seeing the Ancient One as well, knowing they would have been there. Seeing how much she knew about Strange ahead of time is good and her knowing what he meant by giving it up. I'll go into the Stones and their conversation later as well.

2014 Asgard.

Poor Thor, but having him talk to his mom, that was beautiful and just what he needed. I know some people were mad he didn't spend more time being sad about Loki but honestly, Frigga was what he needed right then. And not to have to be reminded of Jane and how annoyingly that ended up for no reason whatsoever other than Natalie Portman deciding not to come back. What if Gwyneth Paltrow had felt that way! I shudder to think. But that’s part of my ongoing saga of how horribly the Thor saga in particular, yes, even Ragnarok, especially Ragnarok, treats its characters and continuity.

2014 Morag

Seeing the opening of Guardians was so funny and I loved it. But I got super annoyed at Rhodey saying Quill was an idiot for it. Rude! Do you know how often I dance around my house lip syncing to music only I can hear? We adore it when people do that in the movies. There was nothing idiotic about it and I resented the way people looked down on Quill in the movie. For instance, I’m super mad about how his reunion with Gamora went. He reacted beautifully and I also understand her reacting the way she did if she didn’t know him, but Nebula had told her about him and that was just mean and condescending. In fact, I also get annoyed about the whole rivalry between him and Thor. I mean, just let Quill alone. Having his own team, his own family, be so cavalier is annoying, especially when they’ve all lost Gamora and Peter has lost a lot of people very important to him in a very short period of time. Yes, he is insecure, but he’s also lost a lot and I’m a fan of loyalty.

There not being traps is so funny and then 2014 Thanos happens. Ugh. It was the way to bring Gamora into the film and Thanos honestly. But ugh. I do think the network with the Nebulas was clever, though very convenient, memories just project themselves out and happen to be the ones that would clue Thanos in to what happened! I hate for Nebula to be subject to that again after being free for 5 years. More really. Poor 2014 Nebula as well.

Switching the Nebulas was clever as well (though why on earth wouldn’t anyone wonder why Nebula wasn’t with them when they tried the snap?)

Also, let’s not get into it too deeply yet but they are very clear, so clear, that Pym Particles are the only way you get through the quantum realm and they ONLY had enough for ONE round trip per person. It’s why we had to go to the 70s in the first place, remember? When 2014 Nebula presents herself to Thanos, she hands him the vial of particles, we never see him hand it back. Now, either she was just showing it to him and he gave it back and that’s how she came to the future, (which is most likely), or she gave it to him so he could come to the future with their evil plan (but then how did she get back with the others?) But either way, someone shouldn’t have been able to get to the future. No matter what Nebula did to the Quantum tunnel, (so convenient she just plugged in and did all these science/mechanic/time travel things) there were no Pym particles that could have brought Thanos, our Nebula, 2014 Gamora, and all of his vast armies and armada to the present. IT LITERALLY COMPLETELY FALLS APART AND MAKES NO SENSE AND GOES AGAINST THEIR OWN RULES!

2014 Vormir

Oh my heart. I’m actually ashamed, I didn’t see it coming until they were headed to Vormir and then I knew, I knew one would die and I was so unhappy the whole scene. I didn’t go into this movie fearing for either one of them so it was a big shock. I’d been expecting Steve and/or Tony to die.

So like I said, I’ve been a Clint/Natasha shipper since day one. Honestly, I didn’t even care if they were together so long as they were always the most important people to each other and were together. The MCU tore that from me with Ultron, but also with their cavalier treatment of Clint in general. Say what you will about Natasha’s arc, it’s hella better than Clint’s. So don’t give me that. Clint is my favorite character so naturally I’m biased in his favor, I accept that. But I love him and Natasha and so it was going to devastate me either way. (I also love Natasha). Remember the early version of Winter Soldier when Clint and Nat were in it and he stayed with Hydra to fool everyone while she went off with Steve and Sam and they were secret partners just like I’m convinced they were in Civil War? Jeremy Renner wasn’t available as I recall, oh sadness.

Anyway, so this scene just slayed me. They were so pure together, each trying to die for the other. Oh, it was awful and visually stunning and I am so annoyed at how it ended. How deep a contrast between the parallel scene with Thanos and Gamora, each just as sad though. But no matter what the end result was, it brought Clint and Natasha back to each other, back to their rightful spots at each other’s sides and uppermost in each other’s hearts. It was always them and if they’d killed one or the other without letting the other one be there, I would have been so furious.

And I’ve seen a lot of hate about letting Natasha die this way. For a man, no funeral, but I don’t agree. I don’t want her to have died and I’m so sad, but I think it was a glorious death and I think it did close out her arc beautifully. Clint tried his darndest but she was better than him and she chose it and she saved everyone. You want the credit in this film, it goes…rat, Scott, Natasha, Tony. As for her not being mourned, heck yeah she was. Clint clearly is mourning and that funeral was absolutely for her just as much as Tony. It’s a movie structure thing, and I have no issues with that. There’s no way she wasn’t heralded just as much as he was to the people who matter if not to the world.

I did read that the writers/directors didn’t know there was a Black Widow movie in the works and if that’s true, it both proves and illustrates my two points that Marvel really is the deciding force in everything if the individual movies are so sure that they’ll get stopped if they’re wrong they don’t even bother to check on things, and that the MCU has gotten too big for its britches and doesn’t bother to take care of the characters they have in their insane rush to bring in new stories and characters.

1970s

Goodbye Stan Lee cameo, we miss you already. And look at Community sneaking into the MCU one bit at a time. And Jarvis! You know, that’s the first character from one of the shows who’s been allowed to be in a movie rather than the other way around. Way to validate, Marvel. It’s scary how the technology works to make younger versions of people these days (provided the actors are still alive to play underneath the CGI). And Peggy, glorious Peggy, that was an important moment for Steve and I don’t care what anyone else thinks. I’m not overly fond of old Howard Stark but if Tony got to see him, I’m glad. I’m so glad for his sake. He deserves validation he was loved.

Back to our present. A mourning scene for Natasha is appropriate and, boy, would I hate to be Clint.

The second snap. Appropriate in many ways for it to be Bruce and the snap worked! Everyone came back. Question: did everyone come back in the same place they left just 5 years forward in time? It seems that way from what Peter said. So…what about the people who came back in planes that were no longer in the same space in the sky or in space or underwater or in buildings long gone? For that matter, did Thanos consider all those things when he wiped out half the universe? Did the accidents resulting from people being gone get considered in his numbers? I know these are more IW questions, but they’re valid. And like I said, Asgardians? The people who died as a result of people being snapped, did Bruce bring them back as well? And we can also talk about how a sudden influx of people like that will likely cause quite a lot of chaos and issues.

But then explosions and Thanos attacks even though it makes no sense for him to be there and people are drowning and the compound is destroyed!

Battle commences and the three of them pounding on Thanos like that is pretty cool. Unfortunately, guys, remember how unbeatable Thanos was with the Stones in IW, and how it almost seemed like Thor by himself would get him? Here, he doesn’t have the Stones and our three main guys are not able to beat him. That’s a little contrived, just saying.

Okay, but Steve with the hammer, how cool is that? And how cool is it for Thor not to be jealous? We all cheered so loud and it was awesome. Love it, love it, love it. Don’t break the shield though!!! (Never mind, pop back to the PAST store and pick up a replacement.) Good fighting, good visuals, yay.

And the image of Steve standing by himself, ready to take on a whole army…it’s so him. He is willing to fight to his last breath always (so stop hating on him finally getting to rest himself, guys). It was glorious.

And then…on your left. Oh my heart, oh we all cheered for every portal opening. That music, it was the best. Such awesome moments, everyone was there. And extra sorcerers and Wakandans and Asgardians because like it or not our superheroes are not an army. Epic battle!

Okay, and remember how people complain about Natasha not being there in the all woman power move (which I am totally fine with and it was a cool throwback and tribute), that’s sad and all, but you know who deserves to be there who wasn’t? Maria frikking Hill! No reason her and Fury couldn’t have been there and if you’re going to bring Hope, you might as well bring Hank and Janet. And frankly, I wish Sif had shown up and the SHIELD folks and all the other people who weren’t there, Nakia anyone? Strange clearly gathered more people than he knew about with his knowledge of the future. Heck, let’s remember Betty Ross exists since her dad clearly does.

So anyway, fabulous battle. I just want to point out that Wanda could have beaten Thanos on her own (poor Wanda) and so could have Carol.

Peter and Tony reunion brought my cold dead heart back to life. He’s learned a little bit about being a Dad and he did this mainly for Peter.

Nebula has to shoot herself, like how messed up is that. Also, makes no sense, but it’s very sad. Thought maybe that’s her catharsis, she puts the past literally behind her and moves on with her new family. She was so tragic in this movie and I love her.

T’Challa knows Clint’s name.

Peter and the Gauntlet clutching.

It’s nice to know why Strange saved Tony’s life by giving up the Gauntlet and that was a horrible one finger to have to lift up and condemn a man’s life.

Tony and Pepper fighting together

AvengersAssemble one more time

For heaven’s sake, where did the flying horse come from?

And then the culmination of eleven years of our lives and full circle I am Iron Man. Oh brave Tony, I love you, sir, you are aces and I respect the heck out of you and I’m so thankful for you and it was very fitting.

Oh and having Rhodey and Peter and Pepper say goodbye. Oh Pepper, you brave soul, you queen of the MCU, you absolute giver. Ugh, being the one left behind sucks.

And then everyone is fine and together and better and Tony gives us a voice over and there’s a funeral and we see everyone there, Tony Stark has a heart, and when Happy starts talking about cheeseburgers, I lost it.

I didn’t recognize Harley, but I love he was there. Ross doesn’t deserve to be there.

Clint and Wanda’s moment gives me life and is the only remembrance for poor Vision. Let’s remember folks, that I called it. Everyone who was snapped came back. Those that died apart from that, didn’t. Heimdell, Loki, Gamora, and Vision are still dead.

No one saw what happened to 2014 Gamora, did they? A mystery likely to be unanswered until Guardians 3. But Peter searching for her made me sad. And it made me sad for everyone to gang up on him though I do like the idea of Thor joining the Guardians.

Scott, Hope, and Cassie together is so sweet.

And Steve…

I am a fan, I don’t think it’s OOC, I don’t think it’s lazy writing, I think Captain Frikking America deserves to dance and love his lady and not have to fight a battle anymore. It’s a fitting end to Chris Evans and it was beautiful. I would have been happy with either Bucky or Sam getting the shield and so that’s lovely. As for people being upset about Steve just leaving and then Bucky not talking to Old Cap along with Sam. Come on, guys. Watch that scene. Bucky knew what Steve was going to do and they had their goodbye there. Also, Old Cap didn’t drop dead the second the camera left, guys. There was plenty of time for him to talk to Bucky. It was just was more important for Sam to get his proper goodbye and to pass the baton.

Them ending it all on a happy Steve and Peggy, well, one of the couples deserves a happy ending, geesh. Nobody else got one! (I don’t count Clint and Laura!) Granted, the next phase of lovers, T’Challa and Nakia, Strange and Christine, Scott and Hope, I guess, they could make it. But Steve and Peggy living a life together, Steve learned how to let it go, and Tony learned how to give it up, and both are valid paths for their characters. Sad either way, but ultimately right in my opinion.

The credits were so cool and I was so happy they did the OG6 at the end like that. They are the reason we love this and they deserve all the glory for the first few phases of the MCU. They’re now passing the baton and that’s always why it was good and final for there not to be an end credit scene.

So time travel…I don’t pretend to know anything about quantum physics, but I know a lot about science fiction time travel. The quantum tunnel being how they did it, that was the part that I could accept as being their rules of how they want to play it. Doesn’t matter if it isn’t science, it’s their science. Pym particles necessary to nagivate? Okay, if that’s what you want to do. Everyone always back at the exact same time with no time having passed no matter when you push your button to come back? Okay, whatever.

There’s a lot of ways to do time travel. Closed loops, paradoxes, alternate timelines, whatever happened happened. LOST does the latter and it makes logical sense. The past happened the way it did because you always had gone back to the past and affected it, you just didn’t know it at the time.

But there’s always a certain amount of hand waving in time travel, okay? It’s not easy to make it make sense. Back to the Future is very solid, but there’s a certain amount you just have to accept. Doctor Who does it really well, because it uses practically every type of time travel in its timey wimey way and manages for it to mostly make sense. (River Song’s creator and his glorious power mad timeline aside. Had to write two different fics to fix that!) So like I said, you can go with a different version and have it make sci fi sense, but there are two incredibly important things to remember about time travel. 1. Ethics. 2. Stick to your own rules.

The Russos have confirmed alternate timelines were created with every change our peeps made in the past. According to their version of time travel, it didn’t change their own pasts and can’t affect their future, but it does create alternate timelines.

Just to be clear, alternate realities and alternate timelines are different. The multi-verse theory allows for completely different realities to be stacked alongside each other where every possibility is played out. You can cross between them, sometimes the rules are that you can’t function in that dimension or sometimes you can take the place of that version of you and live there, either way. It’s a whole separate place apart from your reality. Generally, it’s not good form to interfere too much, but if you do, best to get back to your reality quickly. You being there and making changes doesn’t change that world though any more than you switching jobs or meeting someone does in your own timeline. Too much crossing could destroy all realities though!

Alternate timelines are different though. They are deliberate changes stemming from a cause and affect everything from that point on. Most of the time if you jump back to the future from a past where you changed something, then you’re jumping back to the future that change created. Endgame doesn’t do that. Which is very convenient and again, they can make their own rules even if they’re not logical and I’ll believe them, so long as they follow the two main things I said up above.

However, they don’t.

1. Ethically, do they have the right to create other timelines and affect those people’s lives without knowledge of the consequences? There’s now a timeline where a 2012 Loki is loose with the Tesseract. Folks, that’s not a good thing considering his mindset at the time. There’s a 2014 Asgard Thor that doesn’t have his hammer (although when Steve took it back with him in time, I’m unsure whether he returned that as well as the Stones) and whatever Hank was going to use those Pym particles for, he now can’t. 2012 Steve knows about Bucky being alive. 2012 Hydra thinks Steve is on their side. 2014 Thanos and Gamora and Nebula and all his children are gone from that year and now the Guardians will never form in that timeline.

Sure, maybe Frigga doesn’t die now, but the point is there are now numerous different timelines where billions of people’s lives will be different for better or for worse simply because our heroes decided to change their own timeline. How selfish is that? Generally, it’s even a huge question when you’re trying to fix something that’s already been changed, ala SG1 Continuum. Beau Bridges calls Cam, Daniel, and Sam arrogant for assuming that he’ll change billions of people’s lives because they insist the world was supposed to be different. All any of us know is the reality we’re presented with. Anya asks in Buffy how Giles knows the other world (the timeline Buffy came to Sunnydale) is any better. He didn’t. We did, but that’s another story. We should consider how our actions changing time affects things other than the one thing we’re trying to fix.

2. We’ve already been over how they gloss over the need for Pym Particles when it’s convenient for them so I won’t rehash that, but let’s talk about the Stones. Why the heck is it all right to take any person or object you want from the past so long as it’s not the Stones? Just because they make up the fabric of time? Well, if that’s the case, when Thanos destroyed them, all time should have stopped or the universe exploded or something. Honestly, I could have handled their way of doing time travel a lot more if they hadn’t made such a big deal about needing to restore the Stones to the exact moment in time they were left in order to avoid these dark branches. The Ancient One is just arguing for the logic of all the sci fi time travel that Endgame is saying is so wrong. They should have just cut that part out. Of course, that gave Steve an excuse to go back in time…so maybe it was all in the name of his ending, but that’s the poor writing part of that.

How do they get from one timeline to the other? When they jump to the past, they always conveniently end up back in their own present but Old Cap had to jump from his alternate timeline to this one (specified by the Russos, mind you) to give Sam the shield. How did he do that? If he had just used his wrist device at the time he wanted to use it basically as long as it takes for him to accomplish his goal as Bruce says (according to their logic of time travel), he would have appeared on the platform when they expected him to, just old. Of course, that’s not as nice of an aesthetic as Old Cap sitting on a bench, so I’ll give them artistic license on that.

It’s awfully convenient that Steve jumping back to the past and replacing all the Stones is so easy to do. He never runs into any problems jumping into an alternate timeline, but they’ve created so many different ones, I feel like it should be easy to. For instance because they changed things in 2012 and the 1970s, if he jumps into the 2012 one first, couldn’t he possibly jump back to the wrong one? Tony sure made time travel infallible when he fixed it on the fly in his house with his only a genius on earth brain…

But one of my biggest issues is that the past has now become a get out of jail free card. Provided they have enough Pym Particles (which he’s alive now to make), they can fix anything they want in their own timeline (screwing all others) whenever they want. Guys, no one ever has to die again! Because here’s the thing, you can grab anyone from the past seconds before their death and it’s fine.

All of the pathos and feels from Endgame have become meaningless. Let’s go back and get Yinsen from Iron Man, we’re definitely saving Pietro. What about Stanley Tucci? I’m definitely saving Yondu. T’Chaka? Odin, Frigga, Loki, Heimdell, the Warriors Three, and most definitely Vision, Gamora, Natasha, and Tony. See, you can’t bring them back in the snap, but if you grab them before they die, then their timeline suffers, but yours doesn’t and as we’ve already established, apparently that doesn’t matter.

So, guys, we never have to cry again. Everybody lives, Rose, everybody lives! That’s what’s so dangerous and illogical about Endgame and time travel in my opinion.

Yeah, I know that was a novel, but there’s probably actually more I’ve forgotten which is ridiculous. Kudos if you actually read that.

#avengers #marvel #spoilers #text post

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