#i think it's like she gets why ROSE would be happy with tentoo | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

doverstar · 9 months ago

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THERE WAS NO OTHER ENDING FOR ROSE and ya know what, I like to think the doctor thinks so too

I think he does too! I’m gonna talk about it, are you ready for me to talk about it? Are you ready for an essay-

I think the Doctor would agree that the ending Rose got—the one with Tentoo on Pete’s World—was the best possible fate for her. I’ll explain why, because I feel like it. First I’ll break down Rose’s most popular alternative-endings. Let’s start with Rose-stays-with-him-until-she-dies. That’s the one Rose decided on long before Canary Wharf. She planned on staying with the Time Lord until she physically couldn’t anymore. Forever.

First of all, that would be painful for the Doctor. He already said it. Watching Rose get shot, drowned, stabbed, sucked into a black hole, sacrificed for a remote planet’s civilization, poisoned, pulled into a void, atomized, eaten, possessed, run over, diseased, or ripped apart would be traumatic and terrible for the Doctor.

Watching Rose grow old and tired and then die would also be incredibly painful. He might try to prolong her life in alien ways, even in medical ways, but then she’s subjected to an unnatural, un-human existence until death claims her. Making a naturally-decaying body stick around and eke out another year, another hour, another century while he watches, exactly the same as ever. Yikes. Not fun for either of them. No thank you. He was against that ending with good reason.

Now, this ending where Rose stays with him until she dies? It is no less an emotional commitment to make than the one every married couple on Earth, every affectionate relationship on Earth, makes. Friends, family, spouses. You will lose them. You have to decide to love them knowing that.

The Doctor does love Rose, but he can’t tell her or admit it aloud because to do that would be facing a reality he’s not willing to face: he loves something he will inevitably lose. The old coward will not do it.

I believe that if Rose wanted to stay with him until she died, knowing she has a shorter lifespan but committing to holding his hand until she could not hold it anymore because he needs that and she can give it to him, and she knows he loves her back—100% yes girl, go for it. That is good and right and fine and she should be allowed to make that commitment. That’s love. That’s literal marriage vows. That’s unconditional, unwavering, and Rose is the first companion in 60 years of TARDIS passengers to love him like that. And he knows it. And it’s scary. But. Even in marriage, that is a commitment that has to be agreed upon by both parties. And the Doctor did not agree. The Doctor, selfish old man, is too afraid. He doesn’t want to watch Rose die, and he tried to explain that to her without confessing anything, and she heard him and tried to explain to him that she decided he would always have her if she had anything to say about it, not for her sake, but for his. (“Who’s gonna hold his hand now?” “I made my choice a long time ago and I’m never gonna leave you.” “Forever.”)

Now. That’s the first option for an alternate ending for Rose. She stays with him as a mortal and he has to watch her die, and they either dance around expressing their love in an unspoken, inexplicit way until he loses her and it’s agony, or they jump in with both feet and enjoy the time they have left, however many days Rose has before death, with the knowledge and understanding that he will outlive her, which is agony but with kissing. Still not 100% happy because one of them is, well, in agony. With a significantly long life stretched out ahead of him to spend as a widower. And it would fundamentally change the nature of a 60-year-old television show, but that’s another Ask for another time. Next is the Immortal!Rose AU, or the Bad Wolf AU. Personally, I don’t care for this AU (though I get the appeal and I do sometimes wish it could be that way). I used to think it was a good idea, and sometimes it's still sweet and I can see it, but the older I got, the more I disagreed with it. Because really, it doesn’t work. The AU’s idea—or its most popular explanation—is that Rose, by absorbing the Time Vortex and looking into the heart of the TARDIS in The Parting of the Ways, retained one slice of her godlike powers: she became immortal. Even after the Doctor kissed her and took the Vortex away to save her. The most-used version of this is that neither Rose nor the Doctor are aware that Rose was left with immortality until Tentoo ages and she doesn’t, or her family ages and she doesn’t.

The reason why I don’t think the Doctor would ultimately want this ending for Rose? The Doctor himself would not recommend immortality. He knows it’s ultimately a devastating existence. He himself has a ridiculously-long lifespan. Time Lords are supposed to only have a certain number of regenerations, but each regeneration, if left to age naturally, lives a long freaking time. (With the new Timeless Child nonsense, who knows, apparently the Doctor exclusively is immortal? I pretend I do not see it.) And then if they should die of old age, they regenerate and another chapter of life begins. So the Doctor knows what it’s like to essentially be immortal. And he doesn’t like it. He doesn’t like watching his friends die around him. He doesn’t like knowing he will outlive the people and places he cares about. He hates it. “Immortality is everybody else dying.” “In the end you just get tired. Tired of the struggle. Tired of losing everyone that matters to you, tired of watching everything turn to dust.�� That last line, the Lazarus speech, sounds familiar because it’s something similar, interestingly, to what Rose said when she was the Bad Wolf. “Everything comes to dust.” Immortality is not a blessing. Immortality is absolutely a curse, and the show treats it like a curse. It’s not just never dying. Immortality is being alone and being unnatural. It’s bad. It’s not a good thing. If you were a 100% perfect person with a 100% perfect memory, it might be doable, but it’s not an easy existence. It sounds awful actually. We saw it with Ashildr (terrible idea). She’s miserable. She never really stops being miserable. Think about this: the Doctor is (kind of) immortal. He never stays in one place for too long, and he is careful to bring along far more mortal traveling companions wherever he goes. The Doctor once told Amy that he brought her with him because he can’t “see it” anymore (meaning the universe and its value), but he brings Amy and others with him because they can see it. “And when you see it, I see it.” What is everyone always telling him? Don’t travel alone. Not because he’s lonely—even though he totally is. It’s because when he is alone, the Doctor becomes a hazard, not a help. He starts to feel like he can do whatever he wants. I mean, think about it. He starts to feel like his judgement is infallible, because he’s basically a god, isn’t he? But no one should have that much power. It takes a lot to kill him, he’s a genius, and he has a time-and-space machine. What can’t he do? After a long, long, long time of living and being alone, essentially in an echo chamber with himself, the Doctor would lose empathy and compassion and humility just like anyone else. Because he’s not perfect. But he brings friends along to remind him he can stop now. To remind him we don’t walk away. To remind him that the universe has life in it that is worth saving, and that there is such a thing as right and wrong, and that he is not God, and that there is no such thing as little people. 900 years of time and space and he’s never met anybody who wasn’t important before. He needs his friends to hold him to the mark.

So—the Doctor knows that being immortal basically means that in the end you’ll see everything come to dust. If you’re not careful, you won’t be you anymore. And nothing and no one else will be themselves to you, either. You will lose the people/places you care about, and you will be alone, and you will stop caring. And then not only will you be wretched, you’ll be dangerous. Someone who doesn’t care is dangerous. It’s Ted Bundy. It’s evil. But it’s okay, I hear you saying. If they had each other, he would always have someone to hold him to the mark! Well - yes and then no - Think about Rose. Rose Tyler is a young human woman with so much empathy and sympathy. She is “so human”, in the Doctor’s own words. She is imperfect, and selfish, and petty, and easily angry and easily jealous. She is also impossibly compassionate, even towards the most ruthless murderous species. She’s kind and generous and brave and has a strong sense of justice. She’s often very selfless and very loving. Especially toward the Doctor. She values doing the right thing. A lot of those traits are found in the Doctor’s other friends (he chooses them with great care). But Rose is different. The Doctor is in love with Rose. And Rose is a lot of ‘firsts’ for Doctor Who. She’s the first companion to inspire change in a Dalek. She’s the first companion to tell him she’s in love with him. (Jo loved him, Sarah Jane loved him, Grace loved him, yes I know there were others.) She’s the first companion to be a real, proper onscreen equal to the Doctor, and not in a She’s Basically the Doctor But A Girl way, like Clara Oswald tried to be. She is not his assistant, his carer, his associate, his sidekick, his adoptive daughter, adoptive little sister, biological granddaughter, or his partner. Not to be Emily Bronte, but these two characters have the same heart. Like recognized like and fell in love. Perfect complementation. That is also another Ask for another time –

RTD said that Rose “humans [the Doctor] and he Time Lords her”. He brings out the courage and confidence in her that makes her so exceptional as a human, things that turn her into a hero, things she already had in her that the Doctor pulled forward. In turn, she brings out the compassion and humility in him that makes him a hero instead of a villain, things he always had in him that she pulled forward, adding humanity which would otherwise be easy for him to cast off.

But she can’t human him if she isn’t human anymore.

The things that make Rose an exceptional mortal would no longer be exceptional if she were immortal. The good traits would be a duty to retain, and the bad traits would be a poison to keep at bay. Because Rose is on a different level when it comes to her relationship with the Doctor, she could, for a time, help hold him to the mark. They would be exactly as we saw them in the show—passing by, helping out, saving the day, loving one another, making one another better. And then after eons go by, they would be each other’s echo chamber. Rose is the Doctor’s equal? Given eternity to stagnate in, what was once a strength would quickly become a weakness. Rose is not perfect and the Doctor is not perfect. Rose would not always be able to “see it” anymore either, even with the Doctor there. Same goes for him. They might be together forever, but Rose would be watching her mother, father, brother, friends, and family all age and die. She would hate that. But it would be okay because she has the Doctor, right? I agree with that. They have one another. So they’re never alone. That’s good. But Rose would not be a Time Lord. She’d be an immortal human. Ashildr 2.0, finite memory in an infinite body. She’d become detached, unable to appreciate the universe, and she’d stop investing in mortal relationships because they all end eventually. All she’d have would be the Doctor—and that’s wonderful, but after a while it would stop being a special thing that they have one another. Don’t look at me like that; it would. Okay, no – no - even if the Bad Wolf powers allowed Rose to have an infinite memory to go with her infinite body, fine, let’s say they did, she and the Doctor would still end up with “a backyard” as Eleven called it.

And eventually they would both think that the two of them, together, have the best judgement in the universe and should be treated as gods, and they will stop caring (except about each other, which doesn’t sound good for all the little people who are not part of that relationship, can you say unhealthy?). Or else they will become enemies, the way the Master and the Doctor became enemies. Or they won’t be able to travel with one another indefinitely, the way Ashildr, the Rani, River, Clara, and Romana can’t travel with the Doctor indefinitely. Because it would become toxic for everyone. And they would be back to being miserable, wouldn’t they?

(And – again - let me finish beating this tiny horse here: if you think Rose Tyler would heal fairly quickly - say, ten centuries in - and warm up to the reality that she has outlived other humans because she is really no longer human, we aren’t thinking of the same Rose Tyler.)

The Doctor would not wish the curse of the Time Lords on anybody, especially not the woman he loves. He would not agree that immortality is the happiest ending for Rose, or even for himself and Rose. There’s a very real chance that immortality would ruin Rose. He wouldn’t do that to her. He loves her.

And here we go, here’s my freaking point - The Doctor loves Rose. So he would give her what she wants, even if it means sacrificing what he wants. Putting her needs before his own. That’s love. She knows that; she was trying to do that for him the whole time!

But what does Rose want? Adventure in the great wide somewhere? No. Rose wants love. Rose wants the assurance of real, true love. Rose wants to love and be loved. And when she finds that, she is darn good at it, and she will do her best to keep it. AND THAT IS ANOTHER ASK FOR ANOTHER TIME, HOOOO BOY DON’T POKE ME- The Doctor cannot give Rose what she wants using himself, or even the thing that will make him happy too, for a time—because to outlive her would be absolutely terrible, and they both know it, and because he will not put her through the curse of immortality. (She doesn’t want to live forever anyway.)

But he can give her what she wants in the form of Tentoo. Are you kidding me? A 100% exact copy of the Doctor? The same face, same mannerisms, same hair? All the memories of loving her and longing for her in his head? And he only has one heart? He’ll grow old at the same time as Rose does? Plus, hi, he actually was born in mini wartime and needs the very influence Rose provided for his ninth self? Come on. What else was he going to do? Of course the Doctor and Tentoo gave her this chance. When Rose asks him “What was the last thing you said to me?” The Doctor could have said “I love you”. He was going to say it. It is canon that he was going to say that he loved her if the connection hadn’t been severed the first time. And for him to say it then, they both knew, would have been all Rose needed to hear. She would have gone with him and Donna and died. Or gone with him and Donna and become immortal somehow, hey I hear there are these random Mire repair kits kicking around out there in the universe, they make people immortal, funny we never saw them before now, I hate you Moffat- But he didn’t say it. He said “I said ‘Rose Tyler’.” And she gives him one more chance to say it. “How was that sentence gonna end?” “Does it need saying?” Well, no, it doesn’t. We’re not asking you to confirm it. She’s not asking you to confirm it. It never needed saying. You both knew it was love. We knew it was love. A hundred times over, it was love on display.

But she is asking him to make a choice—and he chooses to let her go because he loves her.

It’s not a question of love. They give each other a chance, both of them. Don’t make the mistake of thinking Rose had no choice. She asked both of those Doctors to tell her they loved her, and she chose the one that said it out loud, after learning her options. She learned one of them would grow old and was offering to spend forever with her if she wanted. She learned that one of them was genuinely choosing not to say he loved her on purpose. She made an informed decision. (Yes, she ran after the TARDIS when it left. Wouldn’t you?) The Doctor would agree that Tentoo is the best ending for Rose. Tentoo would agree (because he is the Doctor, and bonus, he gets to have Rose Tyler). Because this, this ending where she gets Tentoo, which is our fancy term for differentiating between two versions of exactly the same man, don’t go there with me-

This ending where she gets Tentoo is genuinely what she always wanted. She didn’t want to live forever. She didn’t want a boring life, but she didn’t desperately want adventure over all else. She wanted love. That’s an adventure anyway. Love. And she loved the Doctor. And she got to have the Doctor, and not lose him, or watch him lose her. And the Doctor, our full Time Lord Doctor, had the assurance of knowing that he did the best he could do for the woman he loved.

(Plus, because yes please, in an official deleted scene which has been confirmed to be intended as canon, Tentoo and Rose have a chunk of TARDIS coral and are growing their own, so they get to see the universe too, so you can’t even complain that all is not as it should be in that sense.) It is sad, because the full Time Lord has to carry on without her (that’s how the story always goes for him, and it should be because without loving and losing, an immortal alien will not have the periodic wake-up call he needs to remember that there is value in people and in relationships and in caring), and it’s sad because Rose won’t see him again, and it’s sad because we won’t really see Rose again. But for her, it is the best ending. It is the kindest, fairest ending. And I think the Doctor would agree.

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metacrisisdoctor · 2 years ago

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it makes me sad when people say rose had no choice in the bad wolf bay ii scene because i feel like it's 'cause they get stuck on the beginning of it. people stop at "but he's not you." (by which she means that ten and tentoo have seperate bodies, not that she doesn't think tentoo is the doctor) and that's so sad because the scene is so short but so nuanced!

at first the doctor is absolutely trying to manipulate her into staying in pete's world. whether it's because he loves her or not, that is no good. and we know that; rose knows that, the doctor knows that. but he is in so much pain that he is still in his timelord body, his part-human self will be with rose and happy and all the shit davros said to him? of couse he comes at it with a "punishment" mentality for himself, because tentoo is him and he is tentoo and he hates himself- but he loves rose more than he hates himself.

after this, of course, it's donna who is able to cut through this bs and tell the meta-crisis doctor to tell rose what this is all really about ("it's better than that, though. can't you see what he's trying to give you? tell her, go on.") and from there on the entire thing is absolutely in rose's court because tentoo, in his love and his humanity and single heart - only wants her to stay with him if that's what she wants! he says IF YOU WANT. it's a major thing, that he offers her an out there even though we know how much he loves and missed her. it's just like he offered to bring her home in born again when she couldn't understand the regeneration. it's her choice to grow old with tentoo, and it's something she absolutely wants- rose wants the doctor, not the traveling (she says this in the parting of the ways)

in the end, rtd gives rose literally all of the power by having her pull both doctors aside and choose which path she is going to take.

it's so impactful because it takes the doctor trying to exile rose and his otherself to rose taking the power away from him (as she does in potw and doomsday) and reclaming her authority in her life.

this is why ten watching rose and tentoo kiss hurts so much, because it goes from him leaving them behind to him being exiled from their world and their happiness- which is the beginning of the end for him truly. and it is absolutely intentional.

this scene renders ten completely powerless in the end, until all he can do is walk back to an empty existance knowing what he could have and does have but cannot experience.

rose is special because yes, for a while, it is the universe and the traveling she loves, but it becomes much, much larger than that. it becomes her loving the doctor and pledging to not have a life we see her long for by her eagerness in tsp, to be by his side forever. whatever that would have meant. but with tentoo she chooses him because this way she gets everything she wanted and deserves, she gets to be selfish for herself, she gets to put herself before the doctors - which i think is very, very important. that's good.

it's not fair to rose to not understand that by kissing tentoo she was making an active choice to spend her life with him because by saying those words he confirmed to her that he is the man that she loves and lost and came looking for, the same way ten convinced her he was the man she became the bad wolf for by telling her the first word he said to her was "run" and taking her hand.

rose is not stupid and she is not shallow. she chose tentoo. she is still a bad bitch defending the earth and perhaps beyond with the doctor. she just also gets to keep her family and sense of self too. all the doctor ever wanted was for rose to have a good life, and somehow he got to know that she has one, because it's one spent with him and he knows how loved she will be. how loved she is, twice over in one lifetime.

#dw #doctor who #rose tyler #tentoorose #rambles #it makes me sad that ppl think they would just roll over and accept a boring life. whatever boring is.#you should immediately know they're off either travelling the entire earth of they're at torchwood chasing aliens etc #they are MAKING life good whatever that means bc they know how bleak having all of time and space is without each other

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variousqueerthings · 1 year ago

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anyone can take what they want from canon and no reading is more "real" than another and it's all fiction anyway and I'd be on this train even if otherwise and don't need validation from artists involved, but I do think the disconnect between how rtd and julie gardner describe the tentoo plot and the way billie piper and dt talk about their characters and the ending is very funny. that billie piper thinks rose going off with tentoo was kind of sad and not what she really would have wanted, and that DT has called the doctor asexual, I just feel they're tapping into the humanity of the characters (so to speak) and why they have to part at the end and why it's bittersweet and tragic

they see my vision of a relationship fundamentally doomed to be unfulfilled because they need different things and their paths can never align and that even as they were making it work by just continuing on and on without ever speaking this truth aloud, the universe itself was like "no. parallel universe!" and then "no. parallel doctor-like alloromantic human!" in order to make them confront these irreconcilable differences between their trajectories, not because of science fiction meta "the doctor must be lonely for the story to work and is an alien" handwavy concepts, but for very grounded, relationship-based reasons

really would like to read a rose x tentoo story where they're not immediately comfortable or at ease with one another, because they're not quite what this relationship was, and tentoo isn't quite the doctor that rose knew, and was essentially left there as an offering or an apology or a good-enough or a prison or for rose to be a caretaker rather than two people who got to know one another over a period of time as equals. and I'm me, I'd want the relationship eventually to work itself out, maybe in a romantic way, maybe not, but some kind of happy ending type thing... I think... I can get into hurt/no comfort fics too......

#you must write what you want to see in the world *sprays myself with water* STOP too many ideas #besides im sure this must exist #rose tyler #tentoo #doctor who #dw #billie piper #david tennant #doctor who meta

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captainswan618 · 1 year ago

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Fully! Some people get really into tentoo and I understand for logistical reasons—the cast/crew completely changes, like COMPLETELY after s4–why they had to it’s just….so unsatisfying that is NOT the doctor!!!

Sorry it took me a minute to answer this - I realized I wasn’t really clear in my earlier post that I hadn’t actually finished the specials yet, just the regular season, so I was still holding out a bit of hope that they would fix it. (Btw one of the reasons I had hope was that I kept seeing that gifset of Rose and Ten saying “happy new year,” so I was pretty sure they would see each other again. I had successfully avoided reading the rest of the subtitles to avoid spoilers, so I didn’t know what that scene actually was, but now that I do, that hope is FUCKING HEARTBREAKING.) I knew there would be a new Doctor and everything after the specials, so idk how I thought they would fix it in that time, but yeah. Anyway, I didn’t want to see spoilers for the specials, so I avoided really reading the ask.

BUT NOW THAT I’M DONE I CAN RANT!

What the fuck even happened there???? Was it seriously supposed to be a happy ending for Rose?? Tentoo (lol at that name - I’ve seen “Tenthree” tossed around, I think as another name for Fourteen, and things are starting to fall into place 😂) was a clone of Ten, and not even an exact one. He had some of Donna’s human DNA, and we witnessed him make different decisions than Ten. He was a different person. I just can’t believe that Rose would be happy with an imperfect copy of the man she loved.

And that’s not even getting into how shitty the thing Ten said about her making Tentoo better was — as if Rose were just a tool to improve a different version of him, instead of being a full person who fell in love with that version of him, and who deserves to be happy.

Anyway, it’s all very muddled in my brain. I want Rose to be happy, but it honestly feels to me like a betrayal of her character if she’s happy with him, as if he can just neatly substitute for her Doctor. I guess I’ll just have to read a lot of fix-it fics, lol. (If anyone reading this has recs they are EXTREMELY WELCOME.)

#this is very rambling sorry lol #doctor who #tenth doctor #rose tyler #tenrose #anti tentoo #(don’t want to tag him bc I don’t want this to show up in the general tag)#answered #timepetals

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angelqueen04 · 2 years ago

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i feel like the events of doomsday needed to happen with rose and ten. they both needed to stand on their own two feet. rose needed to learn what and who she could be without ten, to see that her awesomeness is not reliant upon him, and that she would not revert to being the shop girl going nowhere if she was apart from him. ten needed to see and understand that the pain of losing rose was going to be crippling no matter when it happened, and he needed to ask himself if trying to avoid the pain was worth denying himself the joy of rose’s presence in his life while he had it.

and they both learned. rose came back from pete’s world having learned to stand in her own right, utterly ready to kick ass, take names, and find the doctor again. the doctor was ready to accept rose’s love, her forever, regardless of how long it was. and the chips fell in such a way that rose got her happy ending with the doctor in the form of his metacrisis self, who *was* ten, just stripped of all of that would separate him from rose (his near-immortality, for one). faced with that, it’s understandable why the doctor chose to act as he did - he never felt right about separating rose from her family for his sake, even though she was willing because she loved him. with his metacrisis, she would get to have both. and rose herself chose the metacrisis because he was honest with her - she asks them both the same question and while the doctor avoids giving her a straight answer, tentoo gives her an honest answer (”i love you”). ten did it deliberately, sacrificing his own happiness for the woman he loved. it broke him, but he did it - and that loss combined with the loss of donna shortly thereafter sets up his final descent into the madness that followed.

but still, if the metacrisis doctor’s existence is a one-in-a-million shot, i wonder what might have happened if things had happened a little differently. if the metacrisis doctor hadn’t been born, would the doctor have had the strength to drop rose on bad wolf bay again? i personally doubt it, particularly if she made it clear that she was staying in the prime universe and had no intention of going back to pete’s world. i hc that rose made it very clear to jackie and pete that she was going back to stay - things only changing b/c of how they turned out with the metacrisis doctor. without him, i think she would have stayed with the doctor.

and that’s what i like to wonder - how might things have been different if the metacrisis doctor hadn’t existed and rose had chosen to stay in the prime universe instead of returning to pete’s world. would ten have lived longer before regenerating into eleven? would rose have helped him stay on the straight and narrow and avoid the whole time lord victorious insanity? and how would their relationship have changed given the years they spent apart?

that’s a story i’d love to see, personally.

#doctor who #meta #rose tyler #tenth doctor #rose tyler x the doctor

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thispieisworthit · 2 years ago

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addicted to the sadness that is rose letting go of the timelord doctor while making a life with tentoo

like it's not just that she would be sad that he'd be on his own but also that he made a choice for her yet again and left her again(!) on the same beach where he couldn't not bring himself to say i love you

and this is all after she spent years jumping across universes for him. people love imagining that rose and tentoo are happy from the get go and i get why that's appealing but there's no way she's not mad as hell about the whole situation at least for a little while

and that's bound to complicate her relationship with tentoo cause well he is the same man but he's not the one who left her again

but in some ways she's a prize being traded between them.

sure it's ostensibly about rose's happiness but really it's about the doctor giving himself the (human) life he's always wanted

which is not necessarily the life she always wanted ! (although it's nice that it seems to work out that way)

i always wish that rose got a moment to express what she wanted verbally (beyond a doctor who was able to love her openly)

this is all to say i think rose and tentoo work it out in the end but it's probably not easy for her

#txt #tentoo #tenrose #also this is just purely off of show canon #bf may contradict obv #doctor who #dw

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thebadtimewolf · 1 year ago

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give me onscreen fluff no matter the cost

i think rtd2 should kill off dimemsion cannon-toting rose marion tyler. hey. im not saying its not gonna highly anger me if they kill her off doing something ooc because it will if they go down that route. make it make sense based on the material that is given. because this aint early 2000s now. its original and new. and not predictable and yt.

im saying so we can have onscreen scenes of then kissing and holding baby mia because i'll be fucking damned if you gave that to racist joan redfern but NOT TO ROSE????

this is because if meta crisis ten/tentoo does come back, there needs to be a reason why he is there alone. we saw what he does when hes alone and only one person attempts to stop him: he starts blowing shit up. doctordonna AND jackie couldnt stop him from basically being a bomber the whole time.

it'll mull him, not harden him or make him go evil like every predictable fanfic whenever rose dies and hes evil and blah blah. it'll ground him. and i dont want it to be like: oh rose passed away! Any way lets- no.

I want it to where the Doctor doesn't realize something is wrong beyond just tentoo being back. It would be the last thing he would think, the one thing they would never come to the conclusion to. I mean, for us it was decade or so ago but for the doctor, that was essentially billions of years ago. That was just plucked stray eyelash from two years ago in comparison.

And tentoo is keeping up appearences. Even says present tense verbs "she is doing great, she is currently so and so doing whatnot" but then it starts being noticeable. Bit by bit. He used 'did' or 'used to' a few slips. Here and there. Something that can brushed off as parallel world: different rules.

But then, near the climax, a gutpunch - you know rtd love his gutpunches of heartbreak - rose died and tentoo blamed himself for it. [mind you, there is a flashback of rose, teen mia, and tentoo just to establish that a comic or audio isnt now canon.] and its something mundane though not how danny pink initially died. at least mundane enough for it to happen but not too mundane enough to be ANOTHER FRIDGING DEFAULT TROPE.

tentoo and pete was there (yes surprise guest star shaun dingwall) and the look of horror on their face when they both rush out only for it to be too late.

but it gets tentoo to stop being trigger-happy. Yes, he gets hurt, but the reason the reveal happens is him saying something along the lines of 'i can't make my daughter into an orphan'

because if moffat gets a hold of that, he's gonna make stone rose a reality in the most cruellest way of killing off rose. Not send her back in time, just turn her into an irreversible weeping angel with no trace of anything that she used to be except her face and hair. I don't need that NO ONE NEEDS THAT!!! but as far as killing of fan faves go: thats your real motherlode there.

it shows no one is safe. tegan and kate stewart almost proved it to be the case. but killing off rose? rose tyler? dame rose marion tyler of the powell estate? that? that's a huge move. a big move.

but it explains so much in retrospect for 50th in film and novelisation. why the moment expressions are the way they are. why literally 10 and 11 could never see her but war and 13 and superpower companion from brooklyn, ny, gabby gonzalez can. why be a ghost haunting them? why be present yet also not at all to them? why be the yellow wallpaper in a burning room of gold? anyway.

give us what we got in one comic as a wandavision esque for empress rose's perspective but onscreen with the main girl! and we all saw i hate suzie fear ep i cried when her character died. let me repeat myself: i cried when billie's suzie's character in a fictional show within i hate suzie, the zombie show that doesnt exist, died. let her cook! i want my heart feel like regina mills in one of her ✨️always serving evil queen regality✨️came into my house, punched through my chest, crunched my heart like it was a simple wine glass stem and then emotionally tossed my body around like she about to audition for making me a new kind of muppet.

make us fear for EVERY 2005 COMPANION RETURNING (except jack because hes still immortal) make us actually clutch pearls and the fabric covering our stomachs!

[this is the same disney+ that now has uncensored punisher and the last time we had rtd writing in america was miracle day and that was gruesome in itself so 👀😬 the whiplash of heartbreakingly devastating opportunities is right there. especiall since rose is canonically established to be part of pete's world torchwood not unit so. yeah be afraid.]

#bw: out of ethos #tv: doctor who #tv: torchwood #{dont read allat. just know i want rosetentoo to get same tosh x owen treatment but for rtd to give us pete world torchwood spinoff}#bw: long post #{its established in various rosetentoo content that they are in pete's world torchwood instead of unit}#{so yeah jot that shit down because that torchwood was already existing before doomsday under a resistance group}#{and now rich boi pete who runs it: the same pete that is a counterpart to dead dad pete: and just added rosetentoo?}#{brace for the worse yall if we do get a double spinoff from rtd}

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songforten · 2 years ago

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[image id: a screenshot of a tumblr reblog from user @lesbiten. the tags read: #as much as doomsday hurt #it made rose and her ending so memorable #yazs ending had no lasting impact at all #you watch it and go Oh. guess thats over #its so nothing #it makes me mad #dw. end image id]

exactly, that's exactly it! as much as rose's ending makes me sad and as much as I like to imagine her having stayed or had a different ending or Whatever, that's not what the show should have done. the way this show works, which is completely rebooting itself every few years, does not necessitate a happy ending. the doctor will always regenerate. the companion will always leave the show. that's just how it works. the writer's job is to decide how that is going to come about.

i think a lot about this quote from rtd about rose's second exit in journey's end:

"The hardest thing of all in that scene is getting Rose to walk away from the TARDIS in the first place. That, indeed, is the problem with the whole scene, that Rose has to act out of character to stay on Bad Wolf Bay. She's utterly, marvellously selfish, and would push past anyone to get to her Doctor. I have to work out whose scene it is, too. In many ways, it's the Doctor's, the real Doctor's. David thinks it's a tragic scene, because it's all about the original, but that's exactly what has reduced Rose's intelligence; she's doing what the plot demands, not what she'd demand. That's always wrong. I know exactly what's wrong with it: it's too complicated. Emotionally, I mean. It has no echo, no resonance, it's empty sci-fi. When the Doctor and Rose were separated into parallel universes in Doomsday, that felt like every love you've ever lost -- even if it's only the ones that you've lost in your head."

even the happy endings we do get, like rose getting to be with tentoo, are bittersweet, because the time lord doctor is once again losing rose, having only just got her back. rose is once again losing her home universe after fighting to get back to it. it is an ending, a true, emotionally complex ending.

like rose, yaz spent years of her life trying to get back to the doctor. years without her family or any friends other than dan and jericho. years. but she just chooses to leave without a fight, just because the doctor is regenerating? especially after we've seen multiple companions stay through a regeneration! it's just so... nothing. why wouldn't yaz want to stay? what's making her want to leave? why is she so passive in this situation? honestly i would have preferred if something bad happened that made her want to leave, or if something happened that took away her choice or ability to stay. it would have been a better service to her character. yes, it would have been sad, but at least it wouldn't have been empty.

i also think a lot about this bit in hell bent:

ASHILDR: I've been watching the stars die. It was beautiful. DOCTOR: No. It was sad. ASHILDR: No, it was both. But that's not something you would understand, is it? You don't like endings. She died, Doctor. Clara died billions of years ago. DOCTOR: You killed her. ASHILDR: No. DOCTOR: You let it happen. ASHILDR: No, I didn't. Neither did you. She did. She died for who she was and who she loved. She fell where she stood. It was sad, and it was beautiful. And it is over. We have no right to change who she was.

yaz was a character who, in my opinion, would not leave the doctor without a reason. she should have had an ending that was both sad and beautiful. she got neither. it was bad, lazy writing.

maybe this is #problematic of me but like. i would have preferred if yaz had had a sad or tragic ending to the absolute Nothing we got

#doctor who #i ended up saying a lot more than i meant to. whoops #meta

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mulderscully · 1 year ago

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i've been think thoughts this week about why we will likely never see tentoo and rose on screen again. because despite billie disliking the idea, she has said multiple times she is open and happy to doing a spin off of the doctor and rose in pete's world. that ending wasn't ideal for her, but she doesn't hate it so much that she wouldn't do more of it, and everyone knows that david tennant has been very, very supportive of tentoo/tentoorose since day one.

if david and billie would do it, if rtd has said that rose and tentoo are happy, then why have we never seen it? the 60th would've been the ideal time for it and honestly felt like the last chance.

and i think i figured it out.

it's how fifteen says he loved rose.

i loved sarah jane [dead...] and rose.

loved past tense. loved like she's dead.

and of course she isn't dead in canon, or physically either! but from a storytelling perspective and for the timelord doctor rose died in doomsday.

what tentoorose represent within the main narrative of the show is like what an "ending" for the tenth doctor would have been. when you aren't a tentoo girlie you might not think abt this a lot but tentoo is the tenth doctor forever until his death. he dies. his gift isn't that he gets to settle down, it's that he gets to die. because the doctor takes breaks. like on trenzalore. like this river for 24 years, and like fourteen with donna.

but he's still immortal.

tentoo and rose represent death and the doctor's idea of heaven at THAT specific point in his life. we are not allowed to see that because our doctor is not allowed to die. he is not allowed to be happy. not for good.

we're never gonna see the only happy ending the doctor ever got because he doesn't get endings. happy or sad.

#doctor who #tentoo #tentoorose #rose tyler

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quietwingsinthesky · 7 months ago

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does/did Even ever get to meet Rose????

yes, actually! Even’s original stay on the TARDIS with lasts from just a little bit after Voyage of the Damned (with one-on-one companion time with the doctor until they pick up donna) to Journey’s End, and that’s when they meet Rose. They don’t really get to bond with her until the AU elements I’m throwing in kick in at the end of that episode, that Tentoo chooses not to leave Donna alone in her amnesia and is just time lord enough to fobwatch himself to join her (and since he’s inserted as a part of her life as her friend, john smith, he doesn’t end up triggering her memories.) rose, given the choice between the other dimension alone again or a version of the doctor who is a stranger who she loves, chooses tentoo and donna. and even goes with them. because that’s what they think the doctor would want them to do, what he’s always been trying to teach them to do, to be willing to give up what makes them happy to take care of people they love.

(you know, i don’t think he thought even would leave. he lets them go. he has to. but i don’t think he considered it could happen. and i think that’s why he never visits them in the months between.)

between journey’s end and end of time, even lives with rose and tentoo.

(which. i think i implied it in that one fic but if not i’ll outright say that it’s because even. can’t get a job. and subsequently, can’t even begin to save to get their own place, whatever fake identity papers they were supplied by UNIT or other. because Spaceship Origin Reasons™️. and on top of that, that they’re also just. autistic. and so much worse at coping with this society they’ve been tossed into than they were with living on the tardis, where for a good bit the only other person they were around most of the time was also neurodivergent and accommodated them in ways they did not notice until those things disappeared.)

anyway. point is that even lives with them. the not-doctor and the girl they know all the doctor’s stories about. and they are so human. they are real in ways that they have never been before, and this does nothing to lessen even’s crush on rose or soften their loyal affection to tentoo that extends from their friendship with the doctor. the fact that even and rose have to share this secret from tentoo and donna only ties them closer. (in. ways that are probably less than healthy. like they would have been more. Normal. about it. but if even had stayed with rose instead of ended up with the master in that whole mess, that could have been the place their codependent tendencies latched onto. especially if they’d gone on with rose to join torchwood and been stuck in this AU’s version of Children of Earth with her.)

Rose teaches Even to bleach their hair proper, though they liked the pinkish-red they had already and plan to go back to that when the blonde she helps them achieve grows out again. (they. don’t get that chance.) Even is the person Rose can most easily reach out to to talk about the Doctor, with every emotion she’s been left with, anger at having come all this way just to lose him again, guilt at that anger when Tentoo is here and she loves him but he’s not the doctor except in all the ways he is and it hurts, plans for how when he visits (they never say if) that they’ll finagle a trip or two out of him on the TARDIS and confront him for taking so long to show up. Rose doesn’t know what to do when Even has meltdowns. Even doesn’t know how to comfort her when she cries about the fact that she chose this and will probably never see her mother or her other universe dad again or her half(?)-brother grow up. They watch bad movies together and try to plan for a future they didn’t expect would look like this.

And then Even has the bright idea to find a way to fix Donna’s amnesia without killing her. Which goes nowhere until they decide, hey, if one time lord couldn’t fix it, you know what’s a great idea? get involved somehow in getting the other one. the dead-but-not-anymore one.

(even voice) im only not telling rose about this because i want it to be a surprise when it definitely goes well and NOT because i know im doing something wrong that would upset her and she’d make me stop.

which. obviously. ends up with even getting scooped up into gallifrey with the master. and wilf having to tell rose what happened, all of it, much later. and her knowing that the entire time she, tentoo, and donna hang up missing posters for even that will never go anywhere. wondering if this is how mickey felt when he knew she wasn’t dead but that she might never come back, lost in time and space with the doctor and he couldn’t tell a soul. she hangs up more missing posters. even doesn’t come home.

so, yeah, they met.

#and then i’ll resolve this. at some point. Later.#look if rtd could take a decade off before fixing donna’s ending i get to leave this shit where it is and ignore it until i figure something #out to do alsjkfjgksjd #ask #dw oc #thank u for excuse to infodump about even and rose

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sallysellsseashellssundays · 2 years ago

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“A Christmas Carol” actually being the shippiest DoctorxRose episode?!?

After watching the episode for the first time I’m actually shocked at how many moments seem to apply to Rose since she’s really been the only “beloved” he’s had.

I’ve seen posts about “a last day with your beloved”, Eleven looking up in the snow like Ten and Rose did or even Eleven talking about Kazran kissing the woman so he doesn’t make his same mistakes...

But why have I not seen people talking about Eleven saying it’s better to have a broken heart than none at all (I think that was the quote) or him saying AND I AM SWOONING AT THIS AS I QUOTE IT DIRECTLY “everything’s got to end sometimes otherwise nothing would get started” I mean if that doesn’t scream Ten giving up his happiness so Rose can be with Tentoo or Ten giving Rose hope in 2005 so she can go be fantastic with Nine I really don’t know what does

#doctor who #tentoorose #elevenrose #doctorrose #timepetals #tenrose #rose tyler #ninerose #it's the way i love her so much i am still seeing connections to her #😂😂😂#my ramblings

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sherl-grey · 3 years ago

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Spotted your tags and > #tbh the only JE scene i will constantly give rights to. and still delete sometimes because of what precedes it > big mood. I'm actually curious on what your JE thoughts are!

Ahhhhhhhh so we're opening this can of worms today... Can't wait to probably contradict myself ten times with all of my mixed feelings and still not cover everything, but here we go! Sorry in advance for how long this is going to be.

As a consumer of the TV show, I get it--the premise of this show means no single incarnation or companion ever truly gets to stay. Even if you made a character immortal, they would HAVE to be a Time Lord with regenerations left or the actor/actress simply aging would be an issue. With that noted, I get why they did what they did. Neither Rose or Donna would've ever left the TARDIS until they literally died, and I am eternally grateful I did not have to see that, nor did I have to see some awful manufactured scenario where they leave the Doctor or are separated from their families; they also tried to give Rose a happily-ever-after and I'll appreciate the effort.

As a fan of the characters, however... this entire episode gets a very large "oh hell no" from me. I know you probably expect me to start with Rose but I will not because she did not pull the shortest straw here; DONNA NOBLE DESERVED BETTER. She and Rose have very similar growth tracks, honestly, but confidence and self-worth are absolutely integral to Donna's character. I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on how absolutely screwed up it is that all of her growth, all of her memories of saving the Doctor, being so important the multiverse converged on her, saving entire planets, making a difference... she doesn't get to keep any of it. I am glad I did not have to watch her die for my own sake but this.... is arguably not better, not for her. (I also won't delve into this since the scene was thankfully deleted but the TARDIS coral scene thing is EVEN WORSE to her and I am grateful every day that I do not have to deal with that being canon. I went on a tag rant awhile back that I'll put below a cut at the end of this because it's long.)

Then we have the Tentoo debacle... look. I have mixed feelings about him but generally my attitude is nope. I really have a hard time believing that Rose would be happy knowing that her Time Lord Doctor is out there and alone (even if he's travelling with someone else, I still think it's iffy at best that she would be okay and comfortable with this ending). She also loved life with the Doctor, travelling and saving worlds and all that, and that's not to say it was more important to her than the Doctor himself but she still chose that life with him over her family, over life on Earth, over any semblance of romance with another person... I hate that the choice is made for her in this episode. I don't care if it's the choice she would've made or not (although remember Doomsday.... hmph); she deserved better! Her friends are in the OG universe. The TARDIS is in the OG universe. Her life is not solely revolving around the Doctor and her potential romance with him, and letting him have 100% of the decision-making her makes me angry (and no, I will not accept any arguments about her kiss being a choice). Not to mention that it's played out in a really awkward and cringe-y matter. Like, she has them essentially stand off and holds one hand each and just.... no. I cannot take it. Give me my immortal Rose fix-its any day, sorry.

And as a belated addition, @scarlet-moon was talking to me about this but this episode is also a mess in terms of bad sci-fi and unaddressed plot holes. As a tangential personal thing, I hate that Woman Wept is canonically frozen because of the stolen planets and not the Time War and will forever change that in my stories.

Here is my salty JE Deleted Scene rant if you care, haha:

#thanks for the ask which i'm sure you now regret 😂#JE salt #it turns out i have a lot more of this than i realized #i could probably keep going but i need to go IRL lmao #asked and answered #loupettes

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