#i think also something interesting is the re-contextualization that comes with like. making a guy. vs putting your whole pussy out there

[moe-broey]

Moe strikes an interesting balance between functionally being a self-insert while also adhering to canon aspects of Kiran. I can't extrapolate on this as much as I'd like to bc I feel like I don't have the words for it rn LMFAO but this has some really interesting side effects!

I think most importantly though it has been a really cool exercise in exploring a variety of different traits -- some of my own, and some that are exclusively Moe's. Either extrapolated from Kiran, or came to me in a vision HAHA. Either way, I think this actually gives it the potential to Be a compelling character by itself, if I can capture it right.

[aboutzatanna]

I noticed that Zatanna described herself as having a flaw that makes her “fall for losers.”

Notice that “loser” isn’t the same as “bad boy.”

She doesn’t like Bad Boys, she likes Losers. (According to Grant Morrison, anyway.)

But if we take this self-description as accurate, I feel like this can contextualize what she sees in the likes of Barry Allen, John Constantine, Bruce Wayne, her former manager, and that one guy from the Detroit Era Justice League of America.

How do you think she may understand “loser” in way that makes sense of these seemingly disparate attractions?

What do you think could be the source of this “flaw” based on her history?

I think it’s possible that to Zatanna, “loser” isn’t about being generally unsuccessful in life, it’s about striving despite a lack of success.

You have to actually try and fail at something to be a loser.

I think it’s a deep respect for men who can live in the space of being knocked down.

A respect for tripping and falling and rebounding with grace.

Might come from a the fact that it’s a kind of strength doesn’t allow for herself as a perfectionist stage performer.

Well, the panel itself is from Seven Soldiers by Grant Morrison where Zatanna is attending therapy after royally screwing up by accidentally summoning an other-dimensional entity and also getting a group of fellow magicians killed whilst on an excursion to another dimension leaving her as the only survivor.

I don't think anyone has the best assessment of themselves when they are feeling extremely depressed and guilty.

You're correct in that if you look at her romantic history that most of the guys aren't losers (Batman, Barry Allen, Jeffery Sloan, Dale Gunn) but it is also obvious she has dated plenty of guys off screen and likely many she regretted dating:

Source: Zatanna: Everyday Magic

And also guys who couldn't handle her lifestyle:

Source: Zatanna: Everyday Magic

Maybe Hal Cook

And while she clearly craves a happy, fulfilling stable relationship, its also elusive because the world of magic is dangerous and has already taken away so many of her loved ones:

Source: Zatanna: Everyday Magic

If you look at her life; her mom disappeared when she was a baby, her dad went missing when she was barely out of her teen and she had to search for him herself, then she found out her mom was live only for said mom to die and her dad also died later on sacrificing herself for her.

It makes sense that someone like that would suffer from abandonment issues, be afraid of getting too close to someone, maybe even isolate herself from good people in life to keep them from getting hurt.

I remember there was a character named Ron in the Zatanna: Come Together mini series. I remember initially not liking the Ron character but upon re-reads realized that he is an okay dude, just not compatible with Zee and the relationship fell apart because Zatanna did not want to open up:

She hooks up with Joshua, the son of her mentor, Marsha in the series.

Marsha died whilst working with her coven and Zatanna to stop the Eldritch Abomination. And although the above panels show that Joshua still had affection for Zee and did not blame her, Zatanna's response "but it can be good with time" comes off as if she has already begun to push him away. Because of her guilt over Marsha plus not wanting to hurt him. Joshua didn't appear after this series which is a shame because I think he's one of the better love interests she's had. Plus his mom was a witch so there is an opportunity for him to have learned magic on his own. No good reason for him to be in limbo other than writers not remembering his existence.

[leandra-kinard]

sorry in advance if i come off degrading or rude here (not my intention at all) but i'm sending this to you because you mentioned fictional narrative re: buddie, so i wanna add my thoughts about plausibility in relation to narrative format and medium conventions. long rant & full disclosure, i just watched 911, so i don't know how the conversation around this was pre-tommy but i don't understand how people thought/think it's a slowburn romance arc they were building with buddie that could actually happen. literally no romantic relationship on this show has been slowburn because it's just not how procedural shows of this kind are written. bathena barely interacts in s1 and were put together in a couple episodes. madney are only friends for five episodes or so. none of buck and eddie's relationships have build-up that lasts more than a few eps. the closest i can think of is buck and abby and even that wasn't much. i just don't think it's the nature of these type of shows, with the exception of something like the show castle where two main leads are set up as one day becoming romantic, to give breathing room for romance to go from zero to established. they're written in on-average 6-episode arcs and planned according to audience response, this is basically how every aspect of these shows work including the romantic plots.

which brings me to my second point you already touched a little bit: medium conventions but especially in relation to queer rep. when we have queer rep in these type of mainstream shows they're rarely stories about bi/gay awakening. double gay awakening? honestly, i don't remember a single show where something like this happened. i'm shocked we even got bi buck AT ALL because nominally straight hot guy main character getting confirmed as queer rarely happens. i kinda find the notion of people genuinely expecting this to happen with two main characters over seasons-long burn kind of laughable. and don't get me wrong, i understand why people love the idea, i'm myself a slow-burn building-a-bond-before-romance type of gal but i just don't think that type of queer story would ever work in a format like this, considering the average audience. look at something like 911ls for example, carlos and tk are both openly gay and start having sex on ep 2 and are boyfriends by ep 10 - that's the space queer stories currently hold in mainstream media. where it's made clear from the start and executed quickly over a few eps (not saying there's no further story with them, i just mean the relationship development). so yeah i don't think buddie was ever an option for the writers beyond being aware of the interest in it which is objectively very small compared to the millions of people watching this show. tldr: i think being ship-baited by a mainstream procedural show on fox is like going to the hardware store and asking for milkshake.

Okay, so I don't agree that slow burns aren't possible at all on shows like 911. Afaik, that popular ship on the Rookie also took several seasons, and there are many more shows that had a "will they, won't they?" situation with two main characters. Sure, it's much more difficult to write, plan and pull through, but it does get done.

Many people were hoping Buddie was FINALLY gonna be a queer version of that trope, and the thing is, there was enough subtext in the previous few seasons to support it. There were scenes that were shot and composed with commonly used cinematographic and contextual tropes that are usually used for romantic couples; there was all that stuff with Eddie having panic attacks over Ana, seeming very distanced with her, Carla's "Make sure you follow your heart, not Christopher's", and much more.

I do believe that backdoor was always open a tiny crack wide, and the writers were aware of it being a tiny, tiny option and therefore included all these little bits that would later make it plausible. There were interviews in the past with Tim where he even hinted at something like that, or left the option open; and there were other writers and directors who also subtly confirmed some subtext. It was never explicitly spelled out but hinted at.

So I'm pretty convinced that it at least was some level of consideration, in the past - always with a tiny probability to become possible, but it WAS there. (And before anyone reading this says "oh so that WAS ship baiting?" Nope, it wasn't. Giving yourself the option to maaaaybe do something in the future as a writer is normal procedure.)

Also, just because something was never done before (i.e. a queer slow burn) doesn't mean it'll never get done. It just makes it a lot less likely and subject to MANY external factors.

But yeah, I definitely agree that putting TWO queer awakening arcs around main characters into the story is extremely unlikely to ever happen on a show like this. And actually, we kinda already had two: the show started with Michael coming out to Athena. So yeah, even though we were thrown into the last stage/aftermath of that arc in s1 rather than seeing it play out from the start of its development, we had that.

[littlespoonevan]

On Buck, ‘Buck, Actually’ and the path to true love (aka the romcom trajectory)

Disclaimer: I realise before I even start this that probably no one is as interested in this as I am but I have Thoughts and I need to put them somewhere 😘

In all of my rewatches of 911 over the past year, I’ve always gotten a little fixated when it comes to 2x08 “Buck, Actually”. Now, I love a romcom - always have - so it��s not a shock that I love an episode that specifically caters to all of these romantic tropes. But what I also love is Buck’s character arc across the seasons and I think there’s something very significant about the notion that “Buck, Actually” almost acts as a thesis statement for Buck’s overall story.

Buck’s storyline pre-2x08 is inextricably tied to Abby. He’s certainly a main character in his own right in season 1 but if we’re to contextualize 911 within the structure of a typical romcom Buck is Abby’s romantic lead. He’s the handsome, cool guy that could get any girl he wants. And she’s the one who - perhaps unexpectedly - catches his attention, she’s the one who makes him want to stop sleeping around and teaches him what it means to fall in love. As viewers we’re sort of predisposed to see Buck through Abby’s eyes a lot during season 1 simply because she’s the eyes through which we’re introduced to the show. (Though this obviously changes as time goes on since they get equal amounts of screen time)

Season 1 is Abby’s story and Buck happens to be a part of it but the really interesting thing about her leaving is that that focus, that empathy and sympathy viewers had for Abby, then shifts to Buck. Because her pov has ended and Buck’s has only opened up even more and any sympathy a viewer may have had for Abby becomes hard to hold onto when you can see Buck clinging to their relationship and getting nothing in return.

Thus, season 1 transforms from Abby’s storyline to Buck’s prologue in a way. 2x01 gives him his sister and his new best friend and now his story can finally begin. By the time we reach 2x08 Buck has let Abby go, is more settled in his relationships and is ready to re-enter the dating world. We know enough about him at this point to know meaningless sex is no longer fulfilling for him and that, actually, romance and love and intimacy are things he genuinely wants from a partner.

I’ve made posts about it before but I think, especially with the hindsight of the past 2-3 seasons, it’s abundantly clear that Buck’s identity is inextricably linked to his desire for love. So I feel like there’s something so genius about the idea of “Buck, Actually” being the true beginning of Buck’s storyline and that this ep that’s almost solely dedicated to him sort of acts like a mini romcom.

We see him sleep with Taylor and try to forge a connection that falls flat because they’re not looking for the same things - thereby fulfilling the ‘unlucky in love’ trope of a romcom. Maddie and Chim act as the all knowing best friends with the sage advice about what Buck is actually looking for and we then see him reach out to Ali. The episode ends with the sort of hopeful fade to black any good romcom ends with but the thing is?

It’s a fakeout.

The real romance of “Buck, Actually” the one that’s actually an ‘everlasting love’? That’s Maddie and Chimney. Maddie and Chimney, who go to karaoke together and know each other’s drink and takeout orders and who have their own Friday night ritual. Maddie and Chimney who, as Buck so helpfully points out, are acting like a couple without being a couple. They know each other and they make each other laugh and they’re in sync in a way they’re not with anyone else.

So for the rest of season 2 Buck and Ali stay surface level while Maddie and Chimney fall deeply in love. Now, Ali was an important step forward for Buck. She was a way for him to move on from Abby and remind him that he could still find love even though she was gone. But she wasn’t his one true love. Not even close.

The following seasons all contain necessary steps to Buck’s growth even if they’re not completely romance-focused. Season 3 is important because Buck is single for the entirety of it. He learns how to be on his own while simultaneously beginning to build the foundations of a family with Eddie and Christopher. We see how deep-rooted his abandonment issues run with 3x16 and his storyline with Red and we see him glean some sort of closure from his reunion with Abby.

Season 4 is significant obviously because of his parents and the revelation regarding Daniel. This is a crucial storyline to allow us to understand who Buck is as a person. We see the root of everything and all of the threads of Buck’s storyline so far slot into place with almost devastating clarity. But the thing is, we’re not the only ones who see Buck at the end of all of this. Eddie does too. Eddie, who already knows and reads Buck so well, gains a new level of understanding. And in that, gains a new level of significance in the role he plays in Buck’s life.

The Taylor-Eddie contrast at the end of season 4 is stark. The moment where Buck runs to Eddie instead of chasing after Taylor still makes my brain go a little fuzzy every time I think about it for too long. Because even though Buck has seemingly once again gotten his happy ending, it’s wrong. And you know it is. It feels completely out of place amidst the emotional turmoil Buck is dealing with throughout the ep. And that point is driven home even more with “You’re not invincible” vs “You act like you’re expendable but you’re wrong.”

Season 5 then shows us that it’s not enough for Buck for him to simply receive love. That this thing he’s been chasing for so long cannot be fulfilled by someone just wanting him back. What sort of started me on this whole journey of thinking more deeply about 2x08 is actually Buck’s speech in 5x18 to Maddie about love. Because once again he’s using a romcom as a blueprint but this time he’s arguing against it. Instead, he’s taking everything he’s learned over the past few years to build a new definition of love. To say, “Shouldn’t it be- when you’re at your worst, [when] they’re at their worst, you have every reason to give up and you still decide you want to try again?”

Buck in 2x08 wants love in the general sense. He had it and he lost it and he wants it back. He wants the closeness and the affection and, indeed, the romance of it all. But Buck in 5x18 wants a specific kind of love. A love that he now knows how to define. He still wants to be chosen, of course, but in a way that he gets to choose too. And the fact that this conversation happens with Maddie whose relationship acts as a counterpoint to his own all the way back in 2x08 almost makes it more significant because they’re both right back where they started.

Hell, we even get a sense at the end of 5x18 that Maddie and Chimney’s journey is starting over with them bonding once again over takeout in that final scene. And Buck is also, once again, newly single but this time it’s by choice and this time he knows what kind of love he wants and he seems willing to wait for that.

It’s what makes me think that the love Buck finds next will be his last and will be right. Obviously, I want it to be Eddie and I think the show has laid the perfect foundation for it to be him. (Buck’s definition of love references him and Eddie more concretely than anything the show has done previously, in my opinion, especially when coupled with Ravi’s definition about having your partner’s back.) But either way, I think Buck is finally, finally at the point where he’s ready to find the love he’s been waiting for. And I think if they do it right, it might just be the most satisfying happily ever after of all time 🥰

[ct-multifandom]

Evolution Things

I see you’ve all been sleeping on Alim Kubdel. Couldn’t be me <3 glad everyone’s waking up though. I’m glad to see him finally be relevant again

Also Alix ‘cause she didn’t do jack in s4???

I’m a bit confused about why adult Bunnyx was sending Alim in “our” time postcards instead of him in her time. Just so that he’d know she’s Bunnyx before it even happened? Plot bs?

Edit: I had this typed out and then I deleted it, but I saw other people mention it so I’ll edit it back in. Will Alix’s dad die??? I had the thought while watching that scene, but the tone was so cheerful I thought nahh it’s a kids show. If it’s true, though, NOOOOOO!!! Also, would it be something that happens during canon, or off-screen right between present and future Bunnyx time? Ik Alix is a pink-haired cartoon girl who just got her superpowers, but don’t orphan her! You have to make her the new MC of the series if you do. It’s anime law.

Edit 2 I can’t shut up: I remembered in Chat Blanc when people were theorizing that future Alix sentimentally holding on to this stuffed toy she won off Rose as a kid was meant to imply that Rose will succumb to her illness. If THAT’S true… *screaming and crying* if I had a nickel for every time future!Bunnyx showed up bringing a vague omen of someone’s impending death unrelated to the emergency at hand I’d have two nickels which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.

Okay a little fandom salt here, warning: I’m seeing everyone talk about how cute Cannigirl (?) is, and imma be real, I feel like Miss Hound, Flairmidable, and her all have similarly designed and equally good suits. But when Penalteam came out the majority of people were shitting on Miss Hound saying she looks ugly? Idk I think if Miss hound has a bad design then so does Cannigirl and if Cannigirl has a good design than so does Miss Hound. Maybe everyone’s just gotten used to the Barkk drip after the initial expectations vs reality reveal in 4-24 but I’m starting to think a lot of you guys just play favorites big time…

I love Alix’s hat tho. It’s so cute, it’s like a newsboy cap or a Donald Duck hat. I love how Sabrina had a dog ear beret and she had a dog ear cap. It’s different and fits their characters. I also love that it turns rabbit-themed when she unifies. I kinda wish it was part of her usual design? Attention fan artists who draw the kids in alternate outfits: I need more hatlix.

I’ve been waiting to see if baby Bunnyx looks different from the big one, and she does! The white part of her suit on her belly is shaped like a romper in the present while in the future it’s shaped like a crop top. Edit: baby bun doesn’t have the circle thingies oh her mask. Present!Bunnyx has a black inside on her umbrella instead of white. Future!Bunnyx keeps her normal hair and piercings when she transforms but little Alix doesn’t have piercings yet and her hair stays similar, but changes ever so slightly. It’s the same length on all sides, is styled a little differently, and is a darker shade of pink. Reminds me of Caprikid’s hair change.

The DJWifi kiss. Man people have been rightfully complaining for the past forever that we didn’t see them really interact in Animan before coming back on screen and going, “oh yeah btw we like each other now”. This was an admittedly very clever way of addressing that. Still a little weird that they became so serious so fast, but oh well, we don’t know how long the tension was building up before Origins ‘cause they’ve been close for a long time and Animan was just the tipping point.

It was also funny how they re-contextualized the taxi joke from Reverser. Turns out Scaredy-Chat wasn’t exaggerating too much!

Gabriel get drinked by Nathalie

I saw someone say Nathalie is finally growing a backbone. More like she’s wearing one as an exoskeleton. She has a literal spine of steel now, but at what cost.

Something that I find really interesting is Alix talking about her interest in engineering. This is pretty much new info for us and it adds context to future Alix’s shirt with the gear with rabbit ears. It could also lead to development in her undeveloped friendship with Max by giving them something in common beyond being aspec.

They keep dropping new hobbies for the cast beyond their “one defining cartoon character interest”. They tell us that Kim likes running and swimming, Max likes playing games and programming, Marc likes writing, and also soccer/football. But I noticed that they’ve also gotten into talking about the kids’ career aspirations. Nino likes to DJ, but he wants to direct films. Luka likes playing music, but he plans to make stringed instruments for a living. Juleka likes music too, and she likes cosmetology, but she dreams of modeling. Alix likes skating and street art, but she plans to become an engineer.

Adrien has no idea what he likes, and Marinette has too many things to choose from, so it’s interesting to watch these side characters start to figure out their futures first. Ik a timeskip to the kids as adults wasn’t in the plans for s6/s7 as announced a long time ago by Astruc, but I’d love to see them grow up and have these different hobbies vs jobs. Who will follow their current interests into the pro level and who will take a totally unexpected path? I’m looking forward to seeing more of this from others in the present.

I hope they will do the pattern of recovering a miraculous one at a time and giving it to the holder permanently. As exciting as the love square resolution is, miraculous is so lonely to me without the side characters. Idk how it’d work out with the rings, like is the kwami actually in there? Is stealing a ring the same as recovering the miraculous? But we’ll see. They can’t episodically shoehorn meaningful side character moments into episodes that aren’t really about them.

Maybe the whole season is just the cat, bug, and rabbit, but that doesn’t make sense to me. If the show was originally planned to end at s5, you’re telling me the hero team was just never coming back until post-canon? That some of them were meant to have a combined screen time of 2 minutes over the whole show? It makes no sense. Plus, why drop transformation phrases for the Penalteam heroes if they’re not gonna actually transform for over a season? Chat said it himself, we’re getting them back one by one.

Maybe each and every episode won’t feature the hero for its miraculous, but they’ll get the kwami back anyways and make the holder permanent later at a time that makes sense? Idk

Gabriel dumbed his last ass

Nathalie spit in Gabe’s eyes challenge

If I want anyone to have a redemption arc it’s her come on bbgirl I believe in you

Alix dodgeball master

Poor 1940s Barkk is so innocent. She doesn’t know what’s coming. I mean, they pulled her out of Nazi-occupied France, so comparatively the present is in a much better place, but still.

Rabbit Noir was so cute. The neon blue under-eye weirdly works, but I feel like they could’ve done something different with the tails.

Let’s drink to all the Alix screen time yet to come. I told myself that my one expectation for this episode would be good Alix time, and I got it, so I must say I’m happy. Return of the queen.

About Multiplication: idk if Mylene will be relevant to this plot considering she wasn’t in the trailer and it’s gonna be big Adrienette time, but in Mega Leech the filter thing they were protesting was a Tsurugi company product, and Ikari Gozen is quite literally a Tsurugi car. Could there be a connection? Is Mylene gonna bring her environmental concerns up to Tomoe directly? Will she help defeat her? No clue how they’re actually gonna do it ‘cause no lucky charm or cataclysm alone will defeat an army of giant samurai sports car centaurs deliberately wrecking Paris. (If you steal the mouse ring off one of the clones will it be the same as taking it when they’re all combined?)

[transneonneko]

Things from Archie Sonic that I would love to see return in the Mainline Games and/or IDW Sonic!!

Recently, I decided to read some of the Archie Sonic Comic, from like issue 186ish up until the first MegaMan crossover and the reboot, mainly because there were some gaps in my knowledge of those stories. Mainly Issues 198 till 235, which I never got to read as a kid and, I have to say, there were a lot of really interesting concepts during Ian's run of comics before the reboot that I really loved. There was a lot of really interesting concepts I love after the reboot too. I wanna celebrate that. A lot of these concepts and story idea I feel really deserve another chance.

So I wanna make this list of stuff I wanna see return in either for stories in the Mainline Games or the IDW Sonic comics. Before we start, I do wanna add somethings. This post isn't meant to be shitting on IDW and being like "IDW would be better if they did this". I really love the IDW comics and universe. I also know that some of these concepts likely can't be done due SEGA Mandates and I'm not gonna include stuff like "Bring back the Freedom Fighters" because I feel asking to bring back characters isn't gonna be very productive, as much as I would like to see their return. Anyways, let's begin.

The Fate of the ARK

One thing that really inspired this list was this scene right her. We'll talk more about Silver's Future later but for now, let's focus on the ARK. I'm gonna assume anyone reading this knows the story of the ARK from SA2 and Shadow. Sadly, the ARK hasn't really been revisited in the main canon since Shadow, despite how iconic of a set piece it is. In the Archie Comics, we get a look at Silver's future and one of things that may have been the cause of how bad things are is the ARK crashed. Sadly, Archie got rebooted before the writers could go more into it but, from SA2, we know that the ARK was set to crash into the planet if all 7 Chaos Emeralds are placed into it, wiping out all life on the planet. This could be an excellent premise of another Silver adventure, whether it be in the comics or games, where Sonic, Silver and some friends have to stop someone from making the ARK crash into the planet.

Expanding the Eggman Empire/Egg Bosses

Something I've always found a bit lacking in the game canon is how the Eggman Empire itself has been presented. In the games, the Eggman Empire is usually just made up of Eggman, Metal Sonic, Orbot, Cubot, a bunch of robots and (recently) Infinite. It's not really an Empire if it's just one guy and a bunch of robots. The main goal is the conquer the world but we hardly see Eggman actually see what happens when Eggman conquers a place, like what happens to the people who used to live there, besides like Colours and Forces, where the Wisps and Mobians are usually just seen being imprisoned. The Egg Bosses are the perfect solution to this and adds so much to Sonic's World.

The Egg Bosses are Mobians who, either willingly or unwillingly, aligned themselves up with Eggman for whatever reason, becoming commanders of the Eggman Empire. This usually comes about when Eggman has taken over a part of the region and the people living in that region have no choice but to join the Eggman Empire, for their own safety. Not only does this make the Eggman Empire feel more than just one person but it also makes Eggman more a villain himself. It able to portray Eggman as someone to be feared and, I mean, this is a dictator and genocider who is pretty much declaring war against the world.

It also brings up some interesting thoughts about the world. Characters like Maw, Thunderbolt and even Nephthys to a degree joined up with Eggman because they felt it was the right thing to do for the sake of the world, or in Nephthys case, to stop things getting worst later on, meanwhile characters like Grand Battle Kukku are plotting to usurp Eggman, with Clove and Beauregard only working for Eggman to protect family or close ones.

As I said before, having these Egg Bosses also makes Eggman look more threaten, both because he's able to look like a "bigger bad" next to these villains he has command of and, because almost all the Egg Bosses hate Eggman's guts, they are cyberized, a terrifying process in which those who work for Eggman are focus to have parts of their body replaced with cybernetics, with either bombs which will blow if they decide to leave or a locking mechanism that will paralyze their entire body, ready to be locked up.

If either in the game or the IDW comic, I would like to see the Egg Boss concept return. It doesn't even need to be the same characters or use the name "Egg Boss." It would help expand the army of the Eggman Empire, as well as provide some fun bosses for the games I think.

Mobians and Humans living together

This was always a weird hangup I felt the series had. In the case of games between Sonic Adventure & Unleashed, Sonic and friends were the only Mobians, humans made up the NPCs while Mobians were reserved for main characters. Then in Forces and IDW, Mobians made up the background characters, so then Eggman is the only human. I really prefer it when they have the two living together, it makes it seems more normal and, honestly, a better solution than the whole "Two Worlds" explanation.

Eggman Seemingly Defeated

Can I just that I love Issues 198-200? In these 3 issues, Sonic and friends Eggman's main base, the Egg Dome. This including fighting on the outside of the base, involving fighting hoards of the Dark Egg Legion soldiers and Eggman in the Egg Phoenix. After dealing with the outside, Sonic and friends raid the Egg Dome itself, taking different directions, with the Dark Egg Legion seemingly retreating, until they reach the center of the base, where they are blocked off by a barricade, which only Sonic can pass through, giving a "Point of No Return" vibe, Dark Egg Legion soldiers lining up and saluting Sonic. Then Sonic reaches the center and finds Eggman in the Egg Tarantula, starting their final battle which Sonic wins. This defeat is enough for Eggman to lose his sanity, seemingly ending the war Sonic and the Freedom Fighters have been fighting their entire life.

Of course Eggman returns but, god, it's just such a memorable couple of issues. There's a real sense of finality to it. I would a sequence like this in the games, something that feels like truly ending the Eggman Empire and defeating them once and for all. Of course, it wouldn't be the end, Sonic games are always needing to be made which would lead to...

The New Rulers of the Eggman Empire

In the comics after the defeat of Eggman, the Eggman Empire is taken over by some of it's Commanders, the Iron Queen and Iron King, who rules the Empire as their own until they are defeated and Eggman's return.

I love the idea that even if the Eggman, there will always be someone there to take his place. The games could do this by having Neo Metal or Infinite take his place. Hell, IDW did have Neo Metal take over but I think what made that less interesting was that Neo Metal wasn't doing it for himself, he was doing it for Eggman. I think this would work well if a concept like the Egg Boss was introduced in the games, maybe have one of the characters part of that group take over OR have a lot of the more ambitious Egg Bosses war against each other to take command, until eventually Eggman returns and puts them in line.

Silver's Future

Silver is one of the most recurring characters, who always joins the gang when his future is in trouble. The problem is that we never see his future besides 06. We have no idea what Silver's future is currently until it's in danger and, even then, we never see it.

We see Silver's Future in both continuities of the Archie Comic, with two different takes. Pre-SGW has a destroyed city vibe, like 06 but less lava. Post-SGW brought a whole new take where people are ruled by a corrupt council where people are put into class groups, and security robots will arrest if you are not at your job at the right time. They even re-contextualize Silver's bracelets as cuffs that the robots can activate. With Silver being my favourite character as a kid, I remember being obsessed with this new world and story, wanting to know more.

I'm not saying they would need to copy this world exactly but it would be nice if they gave us a concrete and consistence look for Silver's Future.

The Heroic Metal Sonic

Right before the SGW, we were introduce to Shard the Metal Sonic. His story is that he was the original Metal Sonic, the one that raced Sonic in Stardust Speedway. He appeared later in the comic, where Sonic made him realized there was more to life than just being Eggman's killing machine. He seemingly died, but was rebuilt to serve as a member the Secret Freedom Fighters.

This one would be tricky to be included. It worked in the Archie comic as they had been many Metal Sonics throughout the series, each one getting destroyed. Meanwhile, there's only officially been one Metal Sonic in the games made by Eggman (two if we count Classic and Modern). Admittedly, Gemerl fits Shard's personality and does need to be used more in the games but having it be Metal Sonic is just a cooler concept.

I think a solution to this is that we have Metal Sonic 1.0 made by Eggman and, in Rivals 2, we have Metal Sonic 3.0 by Eggman Nega from the future. But what about Metal Sonic 2.0? I think we could have a game where after Metal Sonic fails, Eggman builds a replacement, being 2.0, which would give reason to Metal Sonic wanting to revolt, which could lead to a redemption? While I am loving the IDW comics, I do really miss a lot of what both Archie continuities offered. I haven't mention the some other concepts and stories I liked that really focused on certain characters such as Naugus, Geoffrey St. John, Dimitri etc. Maybe I'll talk about that another day...

[toooldforfandom-liveblogs]

RWBY V08E06 - Midnight

Surprise RWBY liveblog!

To be honest I've been avoiding watching or thinking about RWBY because nothing good will come from Penny getting hacked and as long as I avoid watching the show I can pretend nothing is going to happen. But the hiatus has been haunting me so... I guess it's time. Let's do this?

Penny hit Cinder so hard she sent her into a flashback.

It makes sense that this scene looks a bit barren if it'll be only used once or twice but the painted grass really makes it look like an unity asset flip game.

Huh. I guess she was in an orphanage?

I didn't expect a second part to what seems to have been a miserable childhood. I mean, whatever's inside that place can't be good if it ends up with Cinder trusting Salem.

Oh. So this is the Cinderella part.

Yyyup.

I'm really curious to see if somehow they make it so Salem ends up being the Prince, ball equivalent and all.

Noo, don't end. I'm really liking this flashback. I'm not on-board the "Cinder gets redeemed" train but it's at least interesting to see her backstory.

Okay, I love this song. Straight from a musical.

Hopefully the OST doesn't disappoint me by making these the only 30 seconds of the song that are sung like this and the rest four minutes of hard rock.

And who are you

lol, in case it wasn't clear before here's a sign that says "we're bad people"

Ah yes, because things can always be worse, now she has a shock collar.

WAIT

WHAT

I thought this was something that Salem taught Cinder, not something older. It kinda re-contextualizes those interactions, at least for me, since I thought Cinder was at least a bit sincere when talking to Salem instead of lying through her teeth by using old lessons she's learned to appease her abusers.

For a second I was worried I had missed something and that this sword was hers in the future but nope, doesn't look familiar at all.

Uhh, metal semblance. I thought it was a prosthetic hand

WHAT I thought she was at least a teenager or something.

I'm morbidly curious about how this is going to end because it has to be a tragedy. Is this guy do something making her think it was all a lie? Is Salem going to kill him?

Well.

At least she's taking her destiny into her own hands instead of what I was somewhat dreading, that the dude was going to end up "saving" her.

ah yes, that's the look of a well-adjusted young woman.

this change of expression? * chef kiss *

entire fanfics can be written about her changing state of mind

...of course they are a gun, I can't believe I doubted it for a second

Now I'm trying to remember if we've ever seen Cinder's neck before. I think we have, but I definitely don't remember seeing a scar. I guess it healed.

Gotta say, I think they succeeded in making Cinder interesting again. I still think she can't be redeemed (without putting a ton of characterization work, which I'm not sure the format of the show allows) but now I'm like 80% sure she's going to end up betraying Salem instead of that being just a "yeah, I guess it can happen" thing.

Not sure what this means for Emerald though. I'm still hoping she breaks away from all of this.

Even how she treats Emerald fits neatly now that we know her past. She never had any peers, everyone was above her. Of course she can't relate to Emerald or even trust her "devotion". She probably doesn't even understand it as anything else but a way to control her.

…welp, that's not going to make Cinder happy.

I wish she hadn't turned her head because her expression before that was marvelously subtle.

…lots of child abuse this episode huh?

I'm going to need a presentation with slides to understand how this is supposed to be an opportunity on the level of Salem's followers doing their thing.

I wonder if Salem getting to him was what made him violent (since he'd finally realize what Ozpin was fighting) or if he was already working to get his revenge before that.

Salem working her silver tongue to convince a depressed Hazel that it was all Ozpin's fault would definitely be in character for her at least.

Oh. Hazel seems to not know what the relics do when brought together.

Which makes sense, I doubt Salem's recruitment speech ended with "and then we'll give the gods a call so they can destroy the world"

Glad Neo still looks pissed off at having to kneel.

For a second I thought only the "primary" henchmen were going to be present (showing how Mercury had gotten a promotion)… and I guess they are, since Emerald and Neo are pretty far away.

oh no, I had managed to forget that was a thing

Even the nature of her abuse is similar, with something that physically hurts them when they disobey. I doubt she can cut off her arm though, since it seems to be inside her.

lol "did you forget something similar happened 10 minutes ago?"

…this is incredibly foreboding

I can't tell if Salem is manipulating Cinder just to kill her soonish or if she's genuinely changing the way she's manipulating Cinder since being too obviously evil wasn't working. Hm.

Cinder's short flashback did imply she finally broke and now she'll be thinking of ways to kill Salem but who knows.

…and of course Ren is the first to dismount the bike. AAAB, Ren, AAAB.

I kinda wish these guys weren't so obviously in the wrong. There's no way Harriet "angry about absolutely everything" Bree is going to react sanely about this.

Wait, how is this getting transmitted and why.

Very glad Salem started with Atlas. That whale is about to "eat the rich" very literally and I'm here for it.

Also, this is a great way to show the scale of that whale, it was just "big" before.

---

(ominous music) indeed.

Very interesting episode. I loved seeing Cinder's past and it definitely added a lot of character to what has been a very thin one. It wasn't exactly a surprise but it finally nails down her past and gives a lot more context to her relationship with Salem. I'm very curious about what's going to happen in the mid and long term between those two.

I think that’s it, until next time!

[passionate-reply]

Have you and Telex met somewhere before? If not, you may want to make their acquaintance. This delightfully irreverent Belgian electro-disco trio came in next to last at 1980′s Eurovision Song Contest. And then they did an album featuring English lyrics by Sparks’ Ron and Russel Mael! Find out all about what makes this record tick, in this week’s installment of Great Albums. Full transcript below the break...

Welcome to Passionate Reply, and welcome to Great Albums! It’s time to break outside the Anglosphere, and take a look at one of the finest synth-pop acts to come from Belgium: the irreverent post-disco trio of Telex. Telex were, in fact, so European that they were sent to that most European of institutions, the Eurovision Song Contest, in the year 1980, in what was perhaps their finest hour in the spotlight.

Music: “Eurovision”

While many contemporary listeners may find “Eurovision” amusing, it actually didn’t go over well in the contest itself, and Telex managed to place second to last on behalf of the Belgian people, losing even the (arguably) more illustrious last place to Finland. It was one of the earliest true “joke entries,” so perhaps the masses weren’t ready for this approach yet. Despite its generally upbeat sound, I think the lyrics of “Eurovision” come across as really quite harsh--and the song’s availability in both English and French meant that plenty of people understood them. Mocking the financial instability of Italy and, apparently, anyone dumb enough to tune into Eurovision, there’s really a rather condescending, perhaps even cruel, sensibility about it. A conspicuous reference to the Berlin Wall, a symbol of some of Europe’s deepest divisions and greatest political turmoil, gives it an extra nudge towards feeling rather contextually inappropriate. Telex’s “Eurovision” might just be the most cynical or anti-European song ever entered...at least up until Hatari of Iceland gave us the thunderous industrial anthem “Hatrið Mun Sigra,” in 2019.

Telex’s follow-up to this “incident” is, in my opinion, where their career starts to really get interesting. While it isn’t that heavily advertised, 1981’s Sex was actually something of a collaboration album, featuring English-language lyrics on all tracks which were contributed by Ron and Russell Mael of Sparks. Given the recent resurgence of interest in Sparks spurred by Edgar Wright’s documentary on them, I figure now is as good a time as ever to revisit this somewhat lesser-known work in the Sparks catalogue--or, at least, with one foot in the Sparks catalogue.

In my opinion, Sex takes the better aspects of both of these groups and combines them into something that feels like more than the sum of its parts. Telex’s soft, yet sprightly synth arrangements have as much fun and flair as those of fellow Sparks collaborator Giorgio Moroder, and feel more substantive and organic than Sparks’ many attempts to play with various genres in which they remained outsider dilettantes. Likewise, the Mael brothers’ lyricism is a major improvement to the often clunky English offered by previous efforts by the Belgians. Recontextualized amidst a sea of dreamy Euro-pop, and delivered by Telex’s suave yet unassuming vocalist Michel Moers, the same style of lyricism that often makes Sparks feel crass and overwrought to me becomes transmuted into something I’m much more amenable to. Much like Devo, I’ve often found the “smartest guys in the room” vibe of Sparks a bit off-putting, but Sex has a certain subtlety or ambiguity about it, that keeps me coming back and pondering it.

Music: “Dummy”

The feel-good, squelching bass grooves of “Dummy” recall the most affable work of the seminal Yellow Magic Orchestra, and a falsetto hook that’s to die for marks it as one of the more pop-oriented tracks on the album. Had it stopped at “Dummy, hey, I’m talking to you,” it would be not only less interesting musically, but also conceptually; the overt questioning, “now who’s the dumb one?”, rescues it from simply being mean. I like to think it calls to mind the archetype of the fool who is constantly vocally doubting the intelligence of others, in an attempt to cover for their own insecurities. While it’s a comparatively simple track, lyrically, it establishes some of the album’s most important themes, portraying traditional “intelligence” as mutable, and perhaps questionable. Despite its appeal, “Dummy” was actually not included on the original tracklisting of the album, but rather debuted as the B-side to the single “Brainwash,” before receiving this promotion in later revisions of the LP. In this rare case, I actually think the later edition is superior, and it’s the one I’d recommend.

Music: “Brainwash”

Besides just sharing opposite sides of the same single, there’s also a strong thematic connection between “Dummy” and the slower-paced, narrative-driven “Brainwash.” Arguably the most high-concept track to be had on Sex, “Brainwash” tells the tale of an intellectual who willingly forfeits his intelligence for the sake of falling in love. That, in and of itself, is a take on the love song that I’ve never heard before. We all know the trope that being in love makes one stupid--our word “infatuation” is basically Latin for “being made stupid.” But “Brainwash” suggests that, given the choice, we might well be better off as fools rushing in. What good is a life full of knowledge if it is one without passion, and deeper humanity? The narrator of “Brainwash” seems fully cognizant of what they abandon, and makes an informed decision to do so. But what complicates things even further is the development that the object of the narrator’s affections seems desperate to make them regain their prior book smarts--perhaps a commentary on how society frames this issue, and its willingness to prioritize the prestige of education over genuine human happiness. The single “Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?” explores a related, but also distinct tension between knowledge and happiness.

Music: “Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?”

Moreso than anything else on the album, “Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?” is really sort of harrowing. Moers’s falsetto feels less like a fun disco aftershock and more like a cry of pain, and the stilted melody and more brash synthesiser stabs establish an air of unease--though still not so strong that it feels out of place alongside lighter tracks like “Brainwash.” Its lyrical narrative is plainly a tragic one, with a narrator who thinks he’s encountered his wife, but can’t quite piece it together, or get the response that he’s looking for. It’s evocative of the very real agony a sufferer of dementia and their loved ones might face, losing their memories, and, with them, their connection to the people around them. But perhaps the most eerie thing about the track is that it never does dip into more maudlin territory, even if it feels like it ought to. In the full context of the album, and particularly the sentiment expressed by “Brainwash,” we’re forced to question just how unfortunate the tale expressed in this song is. Perhaps “Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?” is also suggesting that love is more powerful than knowledge, in its own way. Perhaps the characters it presents have transcended the need for knowledge of their shared history, because their bond is deeper and more primal than that? Similarly subversive questions about love are also posed by “Exercise Is Good For You.”

Music: “Exercise Is Good For You”

With a pleasingly abrasive, textured synth line and a rather singable refrain, “Exercise Is Good For You” is the one track cut from the later version of the album that I do find myself missing. This track’s narrator has devoted themselves to exercising--perhaps over-exercising--in the wake of a bad break-up. At first blush, it may seem a bit absurd, but this is a real-life coping mechanism, and one that can potentially be quite dangerous, particularly as it’s often combined with eating disorders. The potential for peril is compounded by the notion that, well, “exercise is good for you,” and that in a world where too few of us partake, anyone who does must be doing the best for their health. While it doesn’t deal with the realm of knowledge, I do think “Exercise Is Good For You” works in a similar space as tracks like “Brainwash” and “Haven’t We Met Somewhere Before?” do, offering an ambiguous narrative that asks us to question something we habitually value--in this case, by portraying the apparent virtue of physical fitness in a darker and less healthy light.

Earlier, I referred to this album simply as Sex, but for the UK market, it was re-christened Birds & Bees. There is obviously something quite transgressive and irreverent about naming a pop album “Sex”! We like to think of pop music as trading chiefly in themes of love and romance, so the title Sex functions as a bit of a “low blow,” suggesting that we ought to think more cynically about “what’s really going on below.” Despite this, there’s really not a lot of terribly bawdy tracks to be had on either version of the album, which may come as some surprise if you’re familiar with their early track “Pakmoväst.” I think the fact that the album title was changed, and seemingly “censored” with the very knowing title Birds & Bees, only adds to its transgressiveness, and lends it a certain allure of the forbidden.

You won’t find birds or bees on the cover of the album, however, but rather a butterfly, feeding off the nectar of two large flowers. It’s certainly an image that can be read as evocative of sensuality, with yonic visual overtones. Perhaps more overtly offensive to the eye is its queasy, dull yellow colour scheme, which is actually much more stuck in the 70s than the rather sharp and with-it electro-disco stylings of the music.

Historically, the butterfly is often used as a symbol of innocence, particularly with respect to the carnal knowledge of sex. In François Gérard’s depiction of the mythological heroine Psyche, a butterfly hovers above the subject, as she receives her first kiss from her lover, Cupid, a god of lust and sexual desire. The suggestion of youthful innocence is only heightened when the title Birds & Bees is applied. We might also consider the similarity between the idea of naivete or innocence as a virtue, and the apparent thrust of tracks like “Brainwash,” which also challenge the utility and benefit of knowledge about the world.

Telex would go on to release three more LPs after this one, and while they never quite surpassed a cult following, they keep up with the times quite respectably, incorporating sampling and digital synth textures without losing their signature levity and playfulness. I think they’re well worth a listen if you’re interested so far.

Music: “Raised By Snakes”

My favourite track on this album is one that’s exclusive to the later release, and never appeared anywhere else: “Mata Hari,” which was not only added to the album, but given the prominent position as its opening track. Mata Hari was actually a real person, a courtesan famous for her exotic dances inspired by her time in the Dutch East Indies. But she became caught up in the political storm of the First World War, and the French government convicted her of spying for the Germans--even though many believed she was framed. After her execution for the alleged crime, her severed head was embalmed and displayed in a Parisian museum, for all to gawk at...until it mysteriously went missing, possibly stolen by an “admirer.” It’s a strange and tragic tale, for sure, and one suitably treated with a sense of mystery and uncertainty by the song. An undoubtedly complex and controversial figure, Mata Hari can be seen as a symbol of European disunity, not unlike the Berlin Wall, as well as a representation of sensuality used for devious and destructive ends. I think this track enriches the album’s themes while also feeling somewhat separate, with its more pensive mood and third-person lyricism. That’s everything for today--thanks, as always, for listening!

Music: “Mata Hari”

[unproduciblesmackdown]

returning the favor: do you have any hcs re: winston, past or present, that you haven't expounded upon before or at length or just feel like talking about again. whatever you like

Thank You.......yeah idk really what hc's i've like "officially" described here that often lol, but then also there's that whole complication where i don't really ever come up with ideas & when asked anything i'm probably going [???] like, classics like "what do you like out of [broad parameter]" & it's like damn....i dunno. what ideas do i have about winsotn who i've thought about every day for > 2 yrs??? that's tough.....& Then the further chaos of like, when i do have hc's or w/e it's less discrete, concrete invented ideas & more towards the end of the spectrum that's like "well i kinda interpret this part of canon vaguely this way" &/or "i have This vague notion that i haven't solidified into a pretend fact or that i'm not at all committed to or take that seriously" where it's like, not only is this not really nailed down but it's basically free floating / i might have other ideas that would contradict each other lol. seems like a more concise list of Stats that are fully/exclusively my ideas is more exciting, but instead i can offer vague "i dunno / what ifs" based on vibes that i verbosely describe lmao, plus i'll forget a bunch of ideas i may have had i'm sure but you know. what else have i ever offered; never really trying to sell this material to otherwise uninterested parties or only make posts that guaranteed more than one person might enjoy, why would i be starting now; and ig if i write a bunch of stuff here & go "oh & i forgot like a half dozen obvious things" i can add on to it if it's a big deal.....plus it's always tricky with billions in particular being vague abt its own characters lmao, we only see [outside of work] personal stuff if it's going to become directly tied to [definitely at work] professional plotlines, or Maybe glimpse some character contextualizing things for the more central characters....side characters have more blanks to fill but also that means. just more that's blank lol & kinda a mystery of Up To Interpretation.....i figured one way to have any structure for this at all is to have a part looking at each winston involving episode's info. well anyways, after this meandering intro that kind of illustrates how i'm sure the rest of things will go here lol, i'm just gonna throw a bunch of stuff down in general. thanks again for the prompt to do so, b/c why not

really the one concrete discrete idea i have which isn't in the canon text is, of course: he is autistic

does he Know? idk. either way, think he's pretty aware of how he operates (& how he Can't operate), but if he doesn't know that's probably more for the "also: he's self loathing, which was basically textually implied" stuff lol. just mentioned it but i do always enjoy the tayston idea that taylor's talking abt in the past having it floated by a therapist/s or whomever that they could be autistic, them considering it but it not applying; winston going "hmm" & doing his own considering & researching & then maybe exclusively sharing the news w/taylor....but of course, maybe he's figured it out himself at some point before. i do think he'd figure it out himself though rather than anyone else directly suggesting it (maybe out here being diagnosed with "just the guy who sucks who we don't like / won't act right or normal" sort of usual experience) & i think, if he knows, he's not about to want ppl at work to know, b/c not as though anyone (but taylor & other quants) particularly seems to be impressed by his quanting proficiency, but he sure gets some validation/affirmation through that route (more re: that of course) and knows that ppl going "oh he's autistic so of course he's better at Doing Math / computer stuff as a like, mechanical efficiency sort of thing" or whatever. and the fact that taylor can interact with him / gives him some leeway to generally do his thing means he's kind of already got space to operate how he operates, see the start of this section....and idk. transitioning into the next section ig

just an Interpretation Of Canon thing here but, re: how these characters generally operate & what their reason is for being around doing stuff in the first place, i guess it's that winston does genuinely like to do & is interested in the math/coding stuff involved here, was also genuinely interested in working for taylor specifically (whatever The Hype specifically was), then you have taylor having the "despite your demeanor, your skills are superior" stance & appreciating what he can do & letting him do it by hiring him for real & all, & here we are, Q is for Quantitative, baby......he must find it rewarding enough to be getting to do this quanting stuff and also, the potential for validation when anyone recognizes he's good at it & by extension finds something about him good & wants him around to any degree

okay just that Episode By Episode stuff for a section here

3x03:

kinda extra room for interpretation b/c this was written as a one off character and reintroducing him in 3x09, written to be recurring, feels like it kinda offers a Soft Reboot for what we got here, where i guess how i take things is that we can suppose in both 3x03 & 3x09 winston's putting on a deliberate Performance to some degree based on what he thinks the potential employer wants to see, but it's also not completely fake / inaccurate either time, & like, maybe the 3x03 vibe wasn't a type of performance he'd only just ever put on for this axe cap interview, & even if it was deliberately bold maybe he was sort of thinking he Could bank on his value as a quant meaning he holds most of the cards (or can get away with acting like it)

building on that & as a More General point of interpretation again: think it's easy to suppose winston could've had an existence w/many elements of frustrations & disappointments & Rejection, but where like, he did figure out these areas of interest & proficiency that seemed to be a more positive force in his life, & leaned into them / focused on them further for it, & i could see him focusing on milestones / graduating from one thing to the next & conceptualizing like, well, if i just get to This point by working on This thing then i'll have it together & be able to move through existence more successfully, like, there's winston going into undergrad & kind of disappointed he's not having that good a time socially / feels like he's missing out / being left out still, but he can be like, well that's fine (: i'm totally fine abt it b/c i'm focusing on the Education & Experience here & when i'm entering the job market as an amazing quant anyone would want to hire then ppl will be seeing me in a positive light & things will fall into place / go great for me / i'll feel like i fit in & am doing things right within some structure. & i think maybe he Did have all those other job offers / opportunities & he was at least partly feeling a bit "objectively" confident, & also maybe just hoping he Could be that confident & that, you know, if he goes ahead & acts like that's the case, it could be confirmed / become true....anyways then obviously disillusionment time

since his outfits are introduced here: more "just how i'm interpreting canon" stuff in that i do just suppose he is mostly focusing on comfort & it'd kinda get in the way of things if he couldn't. flipflops might've been a statement piece but also i figure at least in part about the comfort / lack of much opportunity for restriction or ill fit or chafing texture or anything, same goes re: pants & shirts. interesting he likes to wear the patterned layers but doesn't really wear like, stripes or plaid ever. plus it could well be that Just A Tee is too informal unless you're the formalest of all by virtue of position, i.e. the ceo, but also we sure often enough see him wearing hoodies &/or multiple layers, like, maybe that's just for warmth or weight or what have you, always considering "what if it's about being self conchy as well (different way of saying self conscious)"

3x09:

so yeah with winston not having taken another job (at least maybe only like, temporary ones as these self contained gigs / just something to pay the bills) figure it's been a Depressive Period for him here lol & deliberately going on a journey of like self reflection / examination & going "haha yeah hated what i saw" is like, i don't think the self loathing is anything new, the confidence in 3x03 kind of an optimistic bandaid lol like well here's the new me as i understand / hypothesize / hope he could be, totally confident in being backed up by how valuable he is as a quant, then taylor kind of ripped that off and wound's open again but that wound was also not brand new or something he was unaware of / that didn't affect him before now

re: math meetup, i can see that being him presenting more evidence of his talent as a quant but also specifically going "see, i do this collaborative thing" to present this more conciliatory and cooperative approach to taylor, & am also taking it as evidence that he really does Enjoy math / coding stuff beyond it simply being a means to a professional end. i also like to think he has been / continues going to math meetup regularly, at least once a month, maybe every other week, and that it's this semi social event, like the relevant irl group you found back in the day that like, meets up for pizza before and drinks afterwards. i also like to think that, like, while he might come off as A Bit Much during said math meetup / just speak up frequently enough and often enough with some insistence lol, people Are there to meet up about the math and his contributions Are valued despite if his delivery/approach isn't always endearing or whatever. and even if he's not really popular / warmly embraced in the more [socializing event] bookends of the meetup, he's perfectly tolerated, and there's even a person or two or three (also regular attendees) who do vibe with him enough to like, invite / even want him to sit with them / talk with them outside that Math Setting. math meetup pals, maybe he doesn't meet up with these people outside these events but maybe they have each other's contacts and sometimes text. not these intimate personal relationships, but still something real and positive and refreshing. it'd be nice if math meetup could kinda be like what he hoped for from quanting, this way his math lets him "qualify" to access this group / activity, his aptitude "making up for" perceived lack of interpersonal / social charm & charisma & what have you, & having some reliably friendly people around even if of course that's not on its own going to mean he's totally socially fulfilled / not often lonely or anything. hc: he's often lonely & not totally socially fulfilled

he does, of course, want to work for taylor specifically, as long as they want him to, and this is sort of his second chance to find validation through working as a quant lol. think that yeah sure winston likes validation in general, who doesn't but also of course he's maybe a bit Above Average sensitive to / keen on it, but he'll also care about Affirmation if it's coming from people whose opinion he particularly values. think that it's easy to suppose he's also especially sensitive to taylor's assessments here thanks to the fact they really hit a (raw) nerve with him like, sure is the potential to get caught up in feedback loop city & say, have a few months mired in self loathing & an especial lack of certainty & confidence, if someone's kinda gone "i hate your self hatred" lol, but he also Did have this especial interest in / high opinion of taylor before that 3x03 interview, & so that's what continues to be part of it here

but then also interpreting that second 3x09 scene as like, he Does independently Know His Value as a quant and yknow not only has his pride but also can't and isn't going to first and foremost focus on trying to socially perform being peak Accommodating and Appealing here lol. but he still cares about what taylor thinks, wants to work for/with them, and i think it was Mutually Appreciated in the last scene that there was Mutual Effort to cooperate w/the other, giving him a Cue instead of just being mad & obfuscating it unless & until giving up on him completely or w/e is Constructive. interpreting winston as someone who sure can be a bit petty on purpose, especially in the face of some wounded pride (where he seems to take pride in his quant abilities & maybe not much of anything else: see the self loathing otherwise), but isn't really one to be deliberately antagonistic, especially not towards, yknow, the person he specifically wants to appeal to, but he also knows he can come off as grating whether inadvertently or not, so he might be testing the waters a little as well

3x11

he's using headphones even though no one else is in the room, that's a preference / he may also just like to block out other sound in general, as there's no audio of [winston's music faintly playing as / before he takes off his headphones] or indication he paused anything. does he like metal, what with the yngwie malmsteen reference? maybe, but that might just be a Billions Reference thing that isn't meant to indicate much / anything abt the specific character. i don't have any hcs about it anyways besides "okay" if so

first time we see his watch, it's not the calculator watch until s5 but i am a fan of said calc watch....gotta suppose it could represent him being here for the math of it all, what with how fancy/expensive watches are kinda the whole like status / power play thing, and a calculator watch is, afaik, not expensive, these casio calculator watch listings i'm seeing are all priced like, $15 to $25 range. so.

2nd scene is the first time we see sleeves pushed up, a frequent choice, maybe if he's focusing sleeves against forearms / Wrists & Hands can be bothersome. also not the first time he puts his hands in his pockets but i think that's a deliberate choice for winston's sort of Default Pose, equate it to the choice to have jared hang / hold on to his backpack straps.

guess he can also be a bit petty / rude / grating on purpose if ppl are getting in the way of his mathing / coding or otherwise thwarting it, at least probably taylor can relate / sympathize what with them wanting to Get It Right / being bothered if people get it wrong but could've avoided this

noticing all the caffeine and the fact he maybe didn't leave the basement / was powering through that project All At Once....just noting that down as a potential Approach, wanting to not interrupt focus &/or bear down & keep a fairly intense pace until it's finished / stay in the zone or what have you

definitely doing some deliberately cocky Testing / pushing back / amicable power struggle with taylor there, confirming he does have leverage due to that quanting ability after all, Despite His Demeanor / not being "sweet"

by this point definitely consciously kinda wants taylor to rail him.

4x03

i have no concrete hc's of instances inspiring winston to think he's "always seeing the future" but god i wish he did. he's right a lot though, maybe he just notices as much lol

talking mostly to taylor here, then concluding with "i only thought it but didn't say it; doesn't count....damnit." like he wants Their validation thanks, even if recognizing his Win here still wouldn't help them either way....also first time we see him w/coworkers for real, he's really freely Interacting.....time to go ahead and say he'd like to be work friends / at least have friendly interactions at work, might be a bit desperate for such positive social interactions, especially in this environment where he thinks the "objectively" good thing about him is most relevant, but it's cringe & fail (&/or vulnerable to Attack) to outright Want something, like validation / affirmation / a positive response or a simple "yeah you're right" "positive" response

first Space Shirt, followed by ones that are like, also &/Or Sci Fi Shirts. does he like space? i guess so

he's autistic

4x08

here & in 4x11, we don't know how he's gotten this info about taylor re: the arc w/their dad or with axe cap, but he's apparently mused on it on his own like this & isn't just quoting what someone else told him about how taylor must feel about xyz & how that might apply to the situations at hand, even though (unless he cassandra'd it) he wouldn't've had that much cause to suppose it'd definitely be relevant to have ideas about how taylor feels / is navigating a situation & why, maybe he just likes to be prepared like that / stay in the loop but yknow, maybe he's just also interested in them as a person beyond what's most immediately relevant to him doing quant stuff for them

he's already done the sort of kicking himself / wincing / apologizing or agreeing he fucked up an exchange thing before but, the genuine disappointment / momentary discouragement in it always lol....self loathing guy

love how he has these little like, clarifying explanations of things. "total control of the instrument," "always seeing the future," "because i win".....he's out here wanting to communicate to connect & to be understood, not so much as a potential for a power play / status climb and thus a conflict.....can see ppl who are used to / Do see interactions in that light to interpret winston yelling about having won as a like, rubbing it in people's faces show of superiority thing, but pretty sure he's just excited and wants a high five

4x11

having talked about the fact none of the desks in the tmc hq main floor seem to be winston's (& knowing that Could just be wroland not being reliably available to be in the bg of shots lol, analyzing s4 shots for some Consistently Empty desk) but it is fun to also consider that maybe tmc Could've had a secret extension in that that quant haunt in the basement was kept. a little more furnishing and it could be pretty chill, even though the lack of windows might not always be ideal. where's he sit!

also the whole "guy who'd be the first one smothered" moment like, guess i could've mentioned it in 3x03 more but yeah my Headcanon here is that winston maybe has a master's degree, not a phd though (him saying "50 phds" in 3x11 i think was meant to differentiate from him on both points, aka he's 1 guy, without a phd) & this is his first "real" job in any field. b/c i'm guessing like, people are here to get Paid, but as mentioned w/the watch (& just how winston acts in general, he doesn't really seem like he's raring to show off / really take advantage of having money or anything) it doesn't seem like he's, like, the "exceptionally focusing on personally making as much as possible" guy, and lauren's remark seems to emphasize / place the context on winston just not having like, savings from prior salaried years at a job or anything, more of a practical matter, maybe he's out here hoping for some more financial security, also they are all living in nyc, so. on that note, maybe he has an okay apartment but like, not without problems / not absolutely ideal, but it's okay. this would just be Convenient as an hc also lol

don't think the monologue was completely memorized, but it wasn't completely off the cuff either, he'd maybe been brainstorming scripts in his head / had some particular parts solidified word for word, but also hardly think he was guaranteed planning to deliver an admonishlogue at all, seems like it was some important factors that he was just kind of already irritated, nobody was listening / people Were social pressuring him to drop it or not interested in entertaining like "yeah i think you should talk to taylor about it" at all, think it was clear that talking to others was only going to lead to them telling him to drop it / trying to not have anyone say anything to taylor, and then that taylor just jumped in, which i hardly think he was hoping for

always Something that we can expressly see winston moving to sit down in that soon to be empty meeting room as everyone else is clearly filing out lol, like, can see how he might not be able to go "well, back to work" immediately and need some irritation / feeling like shit / guess who just got yeeellllllllllled aaaaaat to burn off, might need some time to absorb "well i guess i just deferred so no bonus as was probably expected," but can also suppose that maybe when winston gets majorly Shut Down he has shutdowns. saying all of four words in the wake of things, otherwise the fact he has this approach of tensing up, not talking at all, kind of just holding onto eye contact as his last way of "properly" participating in the exchange w/o bailing entirely, while also outwardly withering, like clearly these kinds of moments are pretty significantly affecting....feels like he could find it difficult to talk much, or at all, in the wake of some / need some time to recuperate a bit & have some distance & quiet & not just jump back into work like he's having a fine and normal time. sometimes pondering like, not only those notions like taylor insisting winston not be Interrupted when he hasn't technically started talking yet (giving him the buffering / latency time) but also like, fun kinda imagining them sitting across from each other having a texting conversation....or times winston would rather have an exchange via email......or make use of the sticky notes......or just have taylor talking to him and picking up on his nonverbal responses

winston's very Not present in tmc meetups / get togethers this season & again we know that this could be because his actor wasn't very available but it's still the case In Canon that there's only so many tmcers and they're all seeing each other outside work / market hours for varyingly formal or informal purposes & he's never included. & simultaneously hold the hc's that he could be choosing not to go or he could just never be invited in the first place l o l.....in either of these situations the reason for declining to go or being excluded could be up to "b/c other ppl don't like having him around" and idk, best case scenario is he doesn't want to go for some other reason, but he acts pretty okay with the All Hands meetups we do see / when in meetings with the other named employees he's pretty raring to interact with them, so :/

4x12

i do like to think it's fun to imagine What If Taylor Had A Phonecall With Winston Before This Monologue; someone once told me that explaining is an admission of failure, i'm sure you remember, i was on the phone with you, sweetheart.....just them both having a more sympathetic approach with each other and a sort of dialed back reconciliation, tbt 3x09, without an audience / roomful of other people

do think that his wearing a tmc logo tee into axe cap hq was a deliberate Statement Piece, like wearing flipflops into axe cap in his true first time being there lol

first time we see the backpack, & the headphones (in this season), like the point you (nothingunrealistic) made about the backpack possibly kind of exerting pressure / compression in a Sensory Way. let's see it again

as good a time as any to bring up how it's such a consistent pattern that it Must be a choice that winston smiles in this direction :/ and grimaces / winces / frowns this way :\ but a choice of the actor of course, was it ever a conscious thing on winston's end, would not put it beyond the realm of possibility he's ever consciously thought of stuff like "even if words fail me(tm) i Gotta hang on to eye contact".....i'm thinking of times he is smiling hard enough that you just gotta do it more symmetrically, like here in 4x12

5x01

he likes bagels

think that this could've been another case of "people who are used to interactions used for conflict / power plays / stepping on other people to status climb (axe cappers in general, maybe team ben having to be extra prone to be on the lookout for these strategies when they're more often on the receiving end of them) misinterpreting winston socializing as means of connection (wanting to talk about the common work thread / interest with coworkers)"

even if for some reason quants were cold shouldering axe cappers like, a sound strategy even if team ben are worthy exceptions. Winston Can Get Petty When People Blame Quants Talking About Being Quants For Axe Cappers Harassing Tmc & also when in the process of doing so everyone's like "also you're smarter than us but no you're not, any math quants could do fundamental analysts could do better" like, winston getting more deliberately antagonistic when ppl are going after his Math Aptitude / value as a quant when that's his "objective" point of pride & confidence & possibly like haha self loathing can't get me here

5x02

winston's decimal points being more precise here i think indicates that the show is not taking the stance of "yeah the quants are just any old analysts with an attitude of superiority" lol

do think he selected that particular seating placement b/c it's like, hey furthest away from axe cap, most aligned with taylor's desk & angled towards it, perfect.....what a letdown

guess this episode suggests he and mafee have chats sometimes, and winston maybe confides At All Sensitive Info w/the guy? bold

always just smh like well thank god we were given this subplot where winston was a plot device really for dollar bill's arc or whatever............what a gift

5x03

just noticing as always how winston is the one person saying they should go for it vs the other two's skepticism / trepidation, and taylor decides to go for it.....they do value his input / trust his judgment

i am also noticing how often winston, as the math guy who doesn't really fit in w/ the whole axe / caply approach & style, has this role in giving taylor these crucial opportunities to pursue their own direction rather than be mired down in the misery of axe cap determining everything....3x11 & his algorithm letting them break completely away from axe cap, 4x11 & his admonishlogue making some Points & then next episode taylor does decide to abandon the revenge jag & says they were wrong & they're sorry....5x03 & this nlp strategy plotline being the first thing taylor could actively pursue for tmc after 2 eps of being dragged painfully through axe cap nonsense, & the fact this, in the next episode, leads to the Impact Fund idea / mase carb

5x04

see that last point

5x05

guess that until confirmed, The Glances being significant is a Headcanon Interpretation lol. anyways i do like taylor giving him these discreet, nonverbal cues as a very deliberate method of communication titrated betwixt them

oh right and an Age Cue here, before that was nailed down i think i already hc'd winston as either the same age as, or a year older than taylor, and that's still true lol, think that's how it goes with the timelines (taylor's being kinda uncertain, and winston's as well, having prior just kinda gone "well if taylor's 22 when they show up as the typical post undergrad age, and each season spans approx a year, and maybe winston spent just a year or two post undergrad getting a master's b/c nothing nails down how long it would take & he could've kinda been ahead of the curve as it were, he could be, say, 23 thru 25 in s3 when he shows up, to taylor's Maybe 23" as the Idea)

just wants to work for taylor as long as they'll have him, but would also like to be openly valued / affirmed on a pretty basic level lol...

one of those matters that's like, i do think that this is what the material is Trying to convey but it's not concrete / explicit, in that i think winston somewhat Likes rian right off lol like. i mean he's also still annoyed on principle, this is maybe his replacement & that stings that it's even a possibility & of course he has reason to want to feel like "oh well this person Clearly sucks" lol, but then there he is trying to scope out the situation & get immediate intel & it's like, here's this fellow 20something you immediately think is pretty (the mental comparison to an A lister as a dunk, lmao) & you see her being perfectly friendly with your nice coworker you're also friendly enough with, that's one degree of separation, now here he comes talking about how cool & epic & smart & capable she is, again makes sense he's still first & foremost bothered by the situation & has cause to just be more jealous about how well everyone immediately thinks of her (see: winston making bad first impressions that may never be undone, the fact other coworkers were probably never going around openly impressed with / praising him after meeting him for 5 sec, or like, ever) but i suppose this immediate underlying sense of attraction / affinity hits in that First Sighting as well

love that we see the feet up on the desk show of confidence again, very funny & glad it's back.....a tool in his arsenal for when he's Very Bothered But (unsuccessfully) Acting Very Unbothered / when he's trying to pitch for his employment lol

when did he have a first gf? perfect time for an hc.....feels like it'd have been like, idk, older high schoolers at the youngest, that kind of emotional commentary....or in college. sometimes pondering the idea like, what if he had a bf first actually.....or not, & Feeling A Way around other guys sometimes like, hmm guess i think this guy is pretty cool &/or i'm kinda like "god i wish that were me" about, then some more noticeable Tension as he's older even if he can't really discern the reason b/c this person's pretty nice & cool actually, hmm. then one day you're doing hw together with a while for code to compile & Oh Hey Lol

meanwhile think clearly rian defuses the Reason For Rivalry (and also clearly immediately likes him / interacting with him & you know, outright sticks up for him & in this significant way) & then when they connect over Math it's all coming together very outright like Oh Hey Lol 😳

also he Gets Right Back To Work easily enough, & like, i think already there's a deliberate performance of "i'm now totally unbothered," but he's just pretty good at shaking things off apparently. & he kind of has to be, to not bail completely or else tamp down his own personality / avoid interactions, but you know. plus that like, he may get irritated when his pride's wounded but around here people can have a whole crisis & arc about it if their egos are bruised in the slightest, so like. pretty blasé

5x06

this isn't really any hc or Interpretation by any stretch but this is the first time we've seen winston pull that particular attitude in that second scene with rian and it's beautiful.....if something's bothering him he's so often like outright indignant but this is like, i'm Bothered but i'm being so dignant about it, for like 4 sec

also the bright green hoodie / bright, high contrast, geometric blockbuster tee is so Vivid but like, always noting how he wears relatively colorful outfits. fun to go "maybe this one's deliberately extra eye catching b/c of this new crush" lol

5x07

the difficulty in reading that much into things when the lack of sobriety could be making any & everything an outlier, & can't even really read into "apparently down to take stimulants (beyond caffeine) on a dime" b/c well, so is everyone else, so that this situation can unfold, we knew he had a crush on rian (or i guess we didn't, but this is pretty direct about it), we knew he likes validation, taylor Knows him well enough that it's not just like "oh he's acting weird? well that's winston for you" to them, which we also knew but it's fun to confirm further lol

and now for some more free floating / general concepts

family? i have no idea. feel like he either has no siblings or several but yknow, anything's possible. we know what he's like Now, don't think he got that solid self esteem / self confidence as an emergent quality from [everything that happened to him before 3x03] & don't suppose he has this like, rock solid close warm familial relationship of understanding & unconditional love & support w/whoever he grew up with, parents or siblings or whoever he lived with....like, the relationship/s could be Fine but you know, still not all that close

i don't think he was every completely friendless (or if he was, it didn't last Too long) in terms of like, throughout school maybe he had some pals, no amazing close [fingers crossed Like That] ones where someone had like, grown up as his next door bestie and they did everything together & knew everything about each other, nothing all that close, but he had people to sit with at lunch or what have you, even if at times like, the table nobody else really sits at but the people who don't have anywhere else to sit lmao. maybe some slightly closer friendships here & there, but people often kind of got subsumed into other friend groups that he wasn't otherwise a part of / otherwise just kind of gradually distanced again...but also possible he had perfectly amicable occasions of like, maybe only having a class or two with certain people, not striking up intimate friendships but hitting it off well enough.........like, winston's out here Not having been stomped down into suppressing his personality all the time, he's still fairly earnest & forthcoming & eager to connect, just sort of vaguely going for "he maybe have always had this element of discouragement & disappointment re: socializing / connecting / forming relationships / sometimes just being accepted on a basic level, but he also didn't have his spirit totally extinguished either" although there's also the room for stuff like, yknow, him Holding Out Hope like "well nobody likes me now / i'm unhappy but maybe once i'm in college [gets to college & still isn't having a great time] okay well once i Enter The Workforce" lol. you know

but it's also like, hardly think he's Only Just Now experiencing the [winston: ___ everyone: get his ass] type stuff & pushback & punishment & disdain over not really doing anything but people hate his style & vibe, & feel like there's also still room for like, yep wow got burned sometimes / having had some pretty negative experiences......we do have to end up in this place where, you know, 3x03 happens and he doesn't just go "guess finance isn't for me!" & dust himself off & go get some Guarantees from some tech firms, & instead he's Really Glad [Taylor] Called & hasn't taken some other more desired job between 3x03 & that call & is immediately like "good news: i do hate myself" so like, can't see him having just thrived his way to this point....evidently not all dating relationships have been just epic highs & victories, maybe he has those math meetup pals now & maybe idk there's other people he's in sort of in contact with, maybe people from college / grad school or the like, still not that close, figure he's generally been lonely like, overall, despite regularly enough seeking out / striving for connections

oh yeah speaking of, the idea that he has a cat maybe lol, in part simply for company, a little guy that lives in your house / apartment....but also maybe he doesn't

always just some general notions like, also idk maybe he engages in hobbies, talks to people through that just like with math meetup....talked about the Embroidery idea, got that computers/programming connection, was thinking like, idk fuck it amateur photography, develop your own film, maybe he took a class in college or high school or something, same with like, maybe he plays a musical instrument, said "the cello, why not" about that as an early [shrug] idea lol. he does like space, maybe he does Anything with that....rip to any astronomy clubs In Nyc like, guess you're not seeing shit, but. 4x11 au, after deferring his bonus he goes to some cool cinematographic celestial occasion like taylor & the sea glass fish carousel lmao. taylor catches up & they have their [i'm sure you remember, i was on the phone with you, sweetheart] exchange lol.....except also not, b/c you wouldn't really want to have Parallels with m/any moments ft. wendy & taylor :/

recalled like a particularly casual / throwaway idea about like "lol what if he was somewhat thalassophobic" in part b/c once actor william dropped that lore abt himself in an interview, but. could have somewhat some other phobia/s. or not really any! what a world

maybe sometimes he's out here like, single & ready to Fuck like, focusing on just hooking up w/people sometimes rather than really looking to date at the juncture, although it could both be true like, he'd Like to be dating but also doesn't really currently want to do all the Putting Himself Out There & such of seeking it out / trying to consciously navigate it, but sometimes it's more manageable like, just wanting to have sex. looking out for himself when he can & how he can lol

speaking of, some vague sexy hcs

gets pegged

especial fan of Tongue Against Tongue texture, enjoys some Grounding elements to avoid being overwhelmed / narrow things to the more relevant sensory input at hand, like the weight/pressure of a partner leaning / lying against him / holding him tightly, if he's overwhelmed in a good way / kinda got some sensory overflow in a good way he might cry during sex In A Good Way lol, took some time maybe in his Personal Sexual Experience to figure out some general differences in "what he doesn't like at all" or "what's off the table / too unpleasant for him at some times but Not necessarily at all times & might be completely enjoyable sometimes," like, am i willing to perform oral sex, am i willing & Enthusiastically so, is that way too much actually, it can be all of them at varying times....maybe in more everyday general situations he refrains from stims in front of others unless stressed enough, but while having sex with someone especially if at all nervous it's like, there can be this transition between repressing stims & being more unfiltered / uninhibited where they kind of build up & then come through in kicks only to be reined back in, either like, he simply does go for a more reined in approach the whole time or anyone else is willing to ride this out with him / he kind of has the time & space to figure out more of a flow, in which case he might still stim but you know, not as though people aren't used to stims in this situation, i.e. reacting to stimulation with movement & vocalization is at least expected & it could once again be like "well he's a bit weird with it but hey" lol or you know, not that some partners can't be understanding or have had experience w/similar partners. hardly make or break but this can be a vulnerable interaction here / hard to shake the self consciousness & sense of "i Do have to filter myself and act The Right Way" all at once just b/c you'd want to

hey and let him sing karaoke or something lmao, winston is as Dramatic as he is, he would give a performance. work in a way to let everyone who sings sing around lol, could throw in some Affectations so that it's like yeah winston can sing without having to be like "wow winston, when'd you become a trained broadway performer" lmao. imagine. which reminds me of the time will joked about like, oh yeah winston Gets That A Lot re: people recognizing he looks like the guy in deh, aka will roland....the limitations of "this is set in real nyc" including occasional references to recent / popular shows, fuck it maybe will roland does also exist in the billions universe. well anyways it would be fun. the karaoke anyways, and that he'd give a top tier Performance whether or not people are first and foremost enjoying his technical / artistic skill at the art of singing, it'd at least be personality infused and engaging

taking it way back to the ideas about winston's social misadventures in general, i'm sometimes considering for fics i never end up writing if he might have some like, misgivings / anxieties about like, is this person i Like acting like they maybe Like me back as some kind of elaborate joke, & maybe the caution comes from experience like you know, classic over the line "pranks" like asked out As A Joke, kissed As A Dare that he wasn't aware of, think there could be like, would be Friendship / friendly acquaintanceship experiences in there where such "pranks" / "jokes" / "messing with him" (and not in a good way) could happen, or even just you know, more Spontaneously, don't even know this person & he's treated as a joke for other ppl's entertainment, realizing at the time or retrospectively like oh maybe i was more being bullied then having any positive social interaction / getting to feel at least "included" or what have you, like, the idea of getting to hang out with a group as The Funny Guy, but he's had these experiences getting to hang out with a group & realize it's b/c they thought he was funny / Amusing in a laughing At him, not with him way, which is easy also b/c winston isn't really out here trying to be funny that we've seen lol. only realizing he was still being excluded after some time / distance from the situation, or escalating open hostility / just more blatant meanness / over the line shit from some people, maybe some stuff that just immediately feels shitty but he figured was just like, well idk, maybe that's normal & still friendly, maybe it also felt more outright embarrassing / demeaning at the time but it's like haha yeah you got me :'] at the time just to save any face lol.....possible unexpected / spontaneous amicability in his socializing history, but also shittiness, whether it's coming at him all at once or he's kind of holding out hope like, well, i just keep at it / have a Friendly attitude here and surely i'll make friends b/c if people didn't like me At All why are they talking to me / letting me be here at all.....

always kind of pondering Fashion Variation, we haven't seen it but it could be possible, musing on "what would he think Looks Good On Him / how does he feel capable of like, dressing for romantic success or what have you lol" like, was the vivid 5x06 outfit anything, cue the drawing like, a bralette & short shorts is shaking it up and could be a Felt Cute outfit and could also be comfortable enough....not always That much room in men's(tm) fashion before you start having to be aware of [Gender] and dunno that winston out here has had the inspiration / motivation / opportunity to consider / try out / explore but hey. what are we here for

just remembered that post like "uhh i just saw a guy crying in the library & then his phone alarm went off & he stopped crying, opened his laptop & started typing / it's called time management" lmao like winston's not out here having the Most amazing time, he could have such Time Management experiences of like, letting it out some on purpose but then reining it right back in, and/or just like some spontaneous paroxysms of crying for a minute or two more unexpectedly in a "do you ever [experience a tiny inconvenience] & realize the thread by which you're hanging on is quite thin" way or otherwise, you know, oops experienced this frustration & now i'm crying over it, or idk, just feeling a bit more vulnerable for whatever reason & something has unexpectedly plucked some emotional string attached to another string attached to another & the resonance = i'm crying now ig. he can't be Thriving out here & i don't think he's all about having such a stranglehold on emotions that he's like oh tf i Never cry (aside from having sex, in a good way)

although speaking of like, emotional repression, maybe he's out here just "good at" compartmentalizing some experiences lol in that "well anyways, back to work" way & stuff like, sure he knew he was risking it in 4x11 but it also did not seem to affect his dynamic with mafee at all lmao like wow.....

think that him not really having anything on his work desk is a choice / preference but also am not sure that that really applies to anything else lmao. what if he had a little plant. that'd be funny

oh yeah and the idea that winston might literally have like prophetic dreams & they're just kind of a nuisance to him but sometimes they can be plot devices in fics (that don't exist) about him kissing people

well i'm just calling it a night there lol but like, it always feels Lacking writing out hc's like, plenty of ideas but also hardly any, and yet the fact that other individual ideas are so Vague / casual that it wouldn't be like "oh i gotta share this via post or manifesting it some other way" so then it feels like, oh no, if i don't list absolutely Everything on something that's specifically a list of hc's, i can never talk about whatever gets left out......and just that like, i ought to have a bunch of really specific, concrete, unique Factoids about winston here to be of any interest but hey lmao. that hypothetical set of concepts is never gonna happen, & the Ultimate Comprehensive List Of Everything I've Ever Pondered Re: Winston is also going to be difficult lmfao (not as though that's what you've asked in the first place) but you know, we took a swing at things here & covered some ground & the thinking about & talking about winston never ends, & this isn't really a post meant to have broad appeal / if you're not already having fun reading vague musings about the quant then i'm sorry you're reading this after having read all that and gone "wow, i'm disappointed" lmao but hey, weird choices made to bring you to this point......also god knows plenty of hcs are more filed away under specific like [Tayston], [Benston], [Riawin] sort of things (lol, [Mafon]) b/c on the one hand, i find it easier to kind of think in Scenarios and the details particular to the "scenes" therein, but i am also not good at thinking of those scenarios! out here operating on vibes, he's autistic and wants to kiss taylor (also now rian but that's kinda right in canon, not just my head) and that's really the crucial info here

[tothedarkdarkseas]

Do you think murdoc's emasculation has a lot to do with the environment he grew up around? Do you think murdoc's/2d's aware of that?

Thank you for this question, it’s a really good one! Behind a cut for length.

I think it would be really, really difficult to argue that it’s unrelated. I’m very far from an expert on the regional differences in England or any specific cities, but from what I gather of the North and the cultural norms in a poorer industrial area like Stoke… it doesn’t paint a very, mmm, let’s say flexible picture of how gender should be expressed. Or a very forgiving one toward “lesser” masculinity. Seems like a tough spot. Combining that atmosphere with Murdoc’s own rebellious, shock-humor, “nothing really matters” personality, I think you get a guy who is pretty contrarian, both an open book and yet extremely repressed. It’s why I think Murdoc expresses himself in sort of the opposite way from Stu, but both have their own kind of toxic masculinity to contend with. He’s open about his desires, maybe even specifically aims to “degrade” himself by not hiding it, but he’s also outwardly unsympathetic toward Stu, foul-mouthed, bullying, abrasive, he’s still got that harshness ingrained in him. He’ll get on his knees and beg where Stu absolutely never would, but he’d also call Stu a slur for crying or wearing really open-necked shirts. Even if he isn’t lying to Stu about his wants or shying away from judgment (instead reveling in it, asking for more of it) he’s also entirely closed off to any emotional response to that, and he’s made uncomfortable by Stu’s emotional responses in a rather harsh way; whether Stu gets angry or upset or both, Murdoc’s jokes and insults always seem crueler and less heat-of-the-moment.

Little anecdotal sidebar here-- and the Brits and more educated folk will roll eyes and laugh at the dumb Americans, but listen, I just need you guys to look away for a minute so the dummies can chat-- I remember watching this Blur (and by association Oasis) documentary footage early into my Gorillaz interest, and there’s a bit where they’re talking to the Gallaghers, and I believe it’s Noel (can’t quite remember) who calls Damon a “Southern pansy.” Now, I did not have a great interest in Britain before and I have to admit, I really knew absolutely none of the slang or idioms or just, you know, the British-isms. This was the first time I’d ever heard the phrase, and to my ears... it sounds homophobic, doesn’t it? I’d never hear someone call a man a pansy in America and not register that as homophobic, by way of being misogynist. But I was told right away when I asked about this, no no, that’s just because the Gallaghers are Northern. That’s just something people say. I do understand now that the phrase is, like, er-- it’s not supposed to be that shocking or anything, I’m not arguing to re-contextualize regionalisms from a place I’m not from, but I do remember what it conveyed to me was that Murdoc’s neck of the woods had this casually homophobic language, and while my stupid Brit-Virgin ears simply didn’t know how to respond correctly, it’s still interesting that other queer people were telling me it really isn’t surprising or scandalous. It’s baked in. You can certainly think I’m making too big a deal of it, it’s not like some Towering Evidence, it’s just interesting. I remember that being something that rooted in my brain early when I started caring about the real-world implications of their hometowns.

I think there’s a chance Murdoc’s aware of it, but it’s not something he’d dwell on. I don’t think Murdoc likes to psychoanalyze himself and I don’t think he’d like to give anything about where he comes from credit or associate it with what he does for pleasure. I’d probably say Stu has never thought for more than 10 seconds about where Murdoc grew up. (I’d also probably say Stu has never thought for more than 10 seconds. I’m kidding!) As they get older and their relationship becomes more lived-in, I think Stu’s awareness of who Murdoc is and everything he comes from would start making a little sense, but I don’t imagine him connecting that specific dot.

(PS- Your question is awesome and it’s worded very clearly, but I tend to ramble and make my answers messy, so let me clarify that I don’t mean to suggest childhood trauma automatically results in worrisome sexual behavior. I think this particular behavior in Murdoc would definitely be related more to the environment and the developmental influence of that, rather than instances of abuse in a more direct physical way.)

[stranger-who-writes-fiction]

Everything Awesome about COIE Hour 3

MANY THINGS OCCURRED!

This one is Long, guys.

Also a more accurate title would be Everything Awesome and some Less So about COIE Hour 3

But I wanted the posts to match, so.

So I never watched Birds of Prey because I never knew it EXISTED when it was on, but as a fan of the Birds of Prey team in general, and the characters Huntress and Oracle...not gonna lie, t’was sad to hear Helena desperately calling out to Barbara before they were destroyed by the anti-matter wave. So I give that cameo a thumbs up.

How is it only just NOW occurring to me that the Waverider (Wave Rider?) is serving the same function as the Monitor’s Satellite from the comics????

J’onn!!!! I’m so glad he’s here! Bearing news about the supporting cast of Supergirl! And the entirety of Earth-38!

So glad that they’re alive! And safe! And not dead! And that they are sure to remain that way, for the rest of the crossover! XD

And then J’ONN IS THE PARAGON OF HONOR! 

It’s what he deserves.

And then like four different subplots are set up in short order: They gotta to to Purgatory to get Oliver’s soul; they gotta get Ryan Choi; they gotta go to the cave where the Anti-Monitor was hanging out until fairly recently; Kara’s gotta be talked out of using the Book of Destiny.

It’s...a lot.

Also Vibe is back!

“Maybe you didn’t hear me under those voluminous mutton chops of yours--!”

Another nice Iris/Barry scene, BUT, for my money, it’s the second one, later in the episode, that really tugs at them there heartstrings.

All the Pariah stuff is as accurate as the Arrowverse could possibly MAKE a Pariah. Good, solid, good.

Then the British Fellows Ham it Up for a few minutes, before The Soul Searching group goes to Lian Yu, because of COURSE it’s Lian Yu, as if Oliver would allow his soul to languish anywhere else. 

Then we’re back in the Anti-Monitor’s room domain and COSMIC TREADMILL! AW YIISSSSSS

All of the good treadmill jokes have been made already so I’ll just move on.

This is very comic-y! The Anti-Monitor used Barry to power his Anti-Matter ray in the comic, and he ultimately destroyed it as well, dying in the process.

HERE, we discover that when Earth-90 Barry vanished last year, he was captured by the Anti-Monitor, and then CONDEMNED TO A FATE WORSE THAN DEATH; HE WAS TO RUN, FOREVER, ON A TREADMILL.

(...Pretty sure that joke was made on the after show, but I couldn’t help it. IT WAS RIGHT THERE.)

So they bust Earth-90 Barry out with the help of Jefferson!!!! 

I love that he’s got his line in there, the, ‘whose life is this’ line. Good, yes, good.

(Listen: there is no greater proof that the Arrowverse will go back to some version of the multiverse model, than Jefferson’s inclusion here.)

I’m getting a little ahead of myself...BACK TO THE OTHER SUBPLOTS!

Ryan Choi is great! I don’t keep up with Legends, but it’d be cool if he stuck around, since Ray is leaving.

ALSO GREAT???? Routh Supes’ explanation of the black shield. ‘Hope cuts through the darkness.’

(And the Superman theeeeeeeme I never tire of hearing it)

There’s some Kate and Kara stuff here but I wanna cover that later so FIRST...

The Oliver reunion on Lian Yu happened way too fast! But then, many things happened way too fast! But this one REALLY FELT WAY TOO FAST.

Like: He’s ready to kill us! But no? YAY, OLIVER IS COMING BACK! But No? Wait, he’s Spectre now????

But also...SPECTRE!!!!!!

Spectre is the deus ex machina of the Crisis comic, so it’s fitting that he’s just. A sudden thing that pops up out of LITERAL NOWHERE and is apparently vital.

So I guess Oliver’s final form ISN’T Team Dad, it’s Mysictal Green Hooded Guy.

(Man we should have seen this coming.)

(I like that Oliver is Spectre, just to be clear.)

Iris’ pep talk with Ryan was lovely.

(And then there’s the moment I mentioned earlier, where Barry’s like, ‘I might die’ and Iris is like, ‘I don’t want to go, I want to be with you.’)

(I will admit...that part got me a little.)

HEY FLASH FANS, HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THE FACT THAT LITERAL YEARS OF TEASING LED UP TO A BAIT AND SWITCH, HUH????

I honestly don’t know if I’m impressed or annoyed by this cop-out.

I will give them props for the inclusion of the original Flash show footage, that was very nice.

(And I say that as someone who has but a passing familiarity with the original TV show.)

The disintegration effect, as well as the Flash emblem being the only thing left, are really great direct homages to art from the comic.

I’m gonna talk more about this part LATER so let’s jump back toooooo....

Oh! The Barry and Jefferson scene!

It was so niiiiiice.

Very emotional, and a nice bonding moment, and this bit:

“I don’t think Henry and Alvin raised quitters, so we should rage against the dying of the light.”

FEEEEEEEEELIIINNNGSSSSS

Another Kate and Kara bit, which again, I wanna get into in a minute, BUT, before we do, I will say that: this buddy dynamic is very nice, but it takes the place of the Kara and Alex stuff from crossovers past, which I might have been okay with...if not for the severe LACK of Danvers Sisters content in the SG season proper.

Here’s hoping 5B gives us...something.

(Also I know it’s very much because Kate is like, the lead of one of the five main shows being crossed over so obviously they’re teaming up instead of Alex and Kara hanging out but I just. Love the Danvers Sisters, okay?)

(Related side note: Really glad this crossover isn’t so focused on romantic pairings! It’s a nice change of pace! I mean we’ve got Iris and Barry obviously, as well as Lois and Clark but I’m just recalling the Double Wedding nonsense of Earth-X and...*shudder*)

(This is an improvement, IMO.)

OKAY OKAY HARBINGER’S BACK HERE WE GOOOOOOOOO

MIND CONTROL! BETRAYAL! DEATH! THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ENTIRE MULTIVERSE!

And crashing on this Vanishing Point because technically we’re HooOOooOOomeless!

Aw man I was so sad to see Routh Supes go...and be replaced by LEX, ugh. 

(But it’s very Lex, so.)

And Kara’s desperate, ‘Kal, Kal! What do I do?’

:C

OKAY so I kinda wanna talk about the Kara stuff, the Barry stuff, and the Kate and Kara stuff.

This crossover does some interesting things, re-contextualizing the two ‘Big Deaths’ from Crisis. 

In the comic, both Kara and Barry die, and their deaths are kind of like...thesis statements, on their brand of heroism.

They’re willing to give up everything--even their very LIFE--to ensure the safety and survival of others.

And both are treated as kind of remarkable things, even among their peers, who are other, selfless superheroes.

Which is WHY...the Barry thing is kind of...a massive let down. 

In the after show, Marc Guggenheim talked about how they could have their cake, and eat it too, because Barry was ready to give up his life, but was denied the opportunity.

And...I get that logic, but man, they spent all of season 6A dragging out that ol Barry-Dies-Angst.

And last season too! The WHOLE SEASON LONG PLOT with Nora was centered on Barry’s disappearance during Crisis and thus, her growing up without him and now...

That’s all just out the door? Because a different Barry decided to take his place? AN ELEVENTH HOUR LOOPHOLE?

It’s so audacious...that’s why I’m also kind of impressed, as well as annoyed.

And they don’t quite do the same thing with Kara, since they haven’t so much as TEASED anything resembling her comic death--I kind of assumed they might with the Book of Destiny stuff, but she didn’t even open the thing.

(And ultimately this is GOOD because if they’d done something similar to Barry--a last minute bait and switch--HOO BOY. There would have been...WORDS. OF STERN DISAPPOINTMENT.)

Instead, the crossover frames living as the more heroic option, because these heroes are Paragons, and thus are needed for some...other purpose, put in motion by the Monitor.

So if they die, they’re actually DOOMING the multiverse.

As mentioned! It’s kind of an interesting inversion, and until we know being a Paragon fully entails--it is difficult to say if it’s a positive or negative change!

(Still love that Kara and J’onn are Paragons, tho, cause they’re my Favs.)

OKAY so that’s the Kara and the Barry stuff. NOW, for the Kate and Kara stuff!

IT’S ALL ABOUT THE KRYPTONITE, MY DUDES.

Yeah, you thought we were DONE talking about Supergirl-specific plot lines...BUT THINK AGAIN!

LET’S TALK ABOUT HOOOOOWWWWW Kate was gonna use that Kryptonite...BUT DECIDED NOT TO, AND THEN WILLINGLY HANDED IT OVER TO KARA because she knew that 1.) SHE WOULDN’T NEED IT and 2.) Kara deserved to have the deadly poison THAT IS ONLY POISONOUS TO HER AND HER SINGLE SURVIVING BLOOD RELATIVE to decide how to dispose of it.

AND THEN...Kara tells Kate to keep it, and I thought, for one HORRIFYING MOMENT, that Kara would insist that she might someday NEED it, should Kara ever go rogue, thus VINDICATING every stupid pro-Kryptonite debate ever BUT...

NO! Instead she’s like, ‘I know you won’t use it!’

And folks.

Folks.

If nothing else. If nothing else. Please. PLEASE. Let this fun week of death and destruction be a learning moment for Kara, that she both HAS and DESERVES better friends, than a woman who casually subjected her to Kryptonite to further her own ends.

PLEASE, SHOW, PLEASE. 

Anyway! That’s hour three! And now we have to wait an ENTIRE MONTH to see how this plays out! XD

[sophygurl]

Hi! I was just browsing through my activity and noticed that after I responded to your ask about ships a while back, you reblogged and shared your thoughts about Spuffy. I'm so glad you were able to read my opinions and understand them, even if you didn't agree with them. I just wanted to stop by and ask what your thoughts and feelings are on Spuffy? I'd love to hear your perspective :)

Oh wooooow, you have no idea how happy you just made me! I feel like I talk about spuffy quite a lot but without ever really saying much of anything because inside of me it’s just a lot of (!!!!!>?>>?!!?!>fjhghhf?!?!?!?!!?) YKWM? Like feels central exploding all over the place and it’s really difficult for me to put into coherent words. 

But I’ve also been wanting and meaning to write some serious spuffy meta and kinda dissect what it all means to me personally, as a survivor, for some time now. And like. Especially with all of this purity culture stuff coming to a head, it feels like a good time to take the time to try and do it because, yea, shit not only doesn’t have to be pure to be helpful - but sometimes the darker stuff IS the Most helpful. 

And I really did appreciate your perspective about the relationship because you talked about the ways in which it did and didn’t work for you without ever shaming anyone for the way it does work for them? And I wish we could all do that more. 

So thank you so much for sending me this ask, and asking for my perspective because sometimes all it takes for me to finally settle down and write something I wanna write anyways is to be asked by someone else to do it! 

This is absolutely gonna get long so have a read more cut.

For context, let me start by saying that I didn’t watch Buffy when it first aired - it was, mmm, I wanna say about 10-11 years ago when I decided to try it out. And while I was watching it, I was also in the midst of doing some heavy duty therapy work on my PTSD stemming from childhood sexual abuse and then some further traumas in my young adulthood that happened because of poor processing of said abuse. I’m not gonna get into details about my personal traumas except for some specific ways in which they relate to the lens in which I watched and processed the relationship between Buffy and Spike. BUT, due to that lens, there very well may be triggery content in this post. 

My experience watching Buffy, in general, started out with me being really unsure what the draw was in season 1 and then slowly getting more involved in the characters and relationships and mythos as the series developed into a more mature and nuanced show. I was really hooked by season five, and season six is my favorite, with seven a close second. 

I liked Buffy, the character, okay in the beginning but it wasn’t until she started really going through and processing her traumas that I started to personally connect to her. So season six was like, my jam. She was raw and stripped down to the nerve, and cycling between like outright rage to pure numbness and just lashing out trying desperately to feel and to make sense of her experiences and I was like - yea, Buffy, same, Same. And then in season seven she starts really contextualizing her trauma and using the pain of it to give herself more power and then sharing that power with others and it was just … fuck, I can’t even begin to tell you what that meant to me. In that last episode, I felt her handing me back my OWN power - like I FELT it - it really … anyway. We’ll get there.

And then there was Spike, who I loved right away. I love me some snarky villains. I love me the bad boy who has hidden depths inside of him. I love the villain who doesn’t … really fit the mold of the other villains in-verse. I love the villain who doesn’t mind working with the heroes if it fits his agenda. Basically, Spike was fictional catnip for me right out of the gate.

I adored Spike and Drusilla together for a lot of reasons, but for Spike to develop beyond just Big Bad, he had to fall out of her orbit, so I was okay with that ending.

On the other hand, I was never into Buffy and Angel. Watching the series as an adult, it just felt creepy to me how this old vampire basically stalked a very innocent-seeming to me teen Buffy. Their romance reminded me of girls I knew who fell for older guys when I was in high school where the older guy seemed sort of dangerous and mysterious and I get the draw from Her perspective - but not necessarily his? I don’t know, I just personally never really bought them being truly in love - they were sort of practice relationships for one another? Her as a young teenager, and him as someone just starting to re-learn humanity. I never Disliked them together… I just never shipped it. The idea of them being one another’s One True Love’s was just sorta meh to me. 

So when Spike started having his crush on Buffy? I was so ready for that. Because it was so silly at first, right? It was not serious. It was creepy and weird and wrong. But in a way that appealed to me. 

How do I explain? I guess, it had to do with all of the reasons that Spike was Not Like All The Other Villains/Vampires. Angel was always different but ONLY because he was cursed with a soul. It was a thing done TO him and when he reverted back to Angelus he was literally a whole different person and did not have any desire to turn back into Angel. When he was Angel, he was all brooding and guilt-ridden and terrified of his other self. 

But Spike was always different just because he was different. This didn’t mean he had a soul or a capacity for love or the ability to be a Good Guy. It just meant he worked a little differently than the other vampires. I truly think he loved and was devoted to Dru. I don’t think she was capable of returning that love in the same way. 

So, anyway, Spike is back and he’s split with Dru because Dru could just … tell … something was off and Spike was wanting to deny that but then suddenly - crush! Not love, not attraction, not lust, not desire - a freaking schoolboy crush.

But of course it was creepy because hello - soulless vampire who has never had a healthy relationship of any kind in his LIFE. But he starts doing these odd things, like wanting to comfort Buffy when he sees that she’s upset and being willing to take care of Dawn when no one else was available and HE doesn’t get it either, but somehow he’s becoming a slightly more decent person because of this weirdass crush? 

IDK, that’s appealing.

And let me clarify. It’s not appealing to me because I see myself in the Good Girl who can make a Bad Boy into a better person. That is never what’s appealed to be about these types of relationships. 

In large part because of my abuse, I see different layers of myself in each character. 

I went through a large portion of my life pretending very hard to be a Good Girl and then when I finally came out of denial about the abuse realized that was because inside I felt like a very Bad Girl and then as I pursued more recovery realized it’s all a lot more complex than that but really I’ve been more of a Decent Person who felt like a Bad Person trying really hard to be a Good Person. I hope that makes sense.

But the point is. I see myself in both the Good and the Bad characters in these sorts of push-pull love-hate dynamic relationships.

And what I love about spuffy, specifically, is that they’re both … both. Eventually. I’m getting ahead of myself. But yes, Spike suddenly wanting to be decent here and there because of his weird developing feelings for Buffy appealed to me - and especially to part of me that feels Bad. I’m Spike in this scenario, not Buffy. 

But I’m also Buffy, being really grossed by this Bad Person’s interest in me. When Buffy throws her money at Spike and says he’s not good enough for her - that’s me hating myself and saying I’m not good enough. But it’s also, strangely, me taking a stand and saying I’m worth better than the ways in which I was treated.

Gods, this whole abuse recovery dichotomy can be so confusing to explain because like. I never abused anyone. But the ugliness I feel inside of myself has to do with what happened to me, and also with what I know people in my family have done to others. So there’s this idea of Badness there. And the idea of there being forgiveness and redemption for that Badness is very very appealing.

And at the same time? There’s this beauty inside of myself that I always thought I was faking but that it turns out - is fucking real and precious and important. And standing up for that broken beautiful part of myself and saying no to being used and abused again is so powerful.

So in that scene? I’m the ugliness in Spike being hated by Buffy but I’m ALSO the powerful beauty in Buffy standing up for herself.

You can maybe see how this all gets even more tangled up the further we go, yea?

So Spike gets chipped and becomes a part of the team - all the while simultaneously reminding them that he’s still a Bad Guy AND slowly becoming a slightly better person because of his interactions with them and his feelings for Buffy. He’s not even close to redeemed, okay, he’s still a villain. He’s just a more and more intriguing villain, an anti-villain, even, eventually.

And then season six. And Buffy comes back. And she’s broken and raw and needing something that her friends cannot give her. She is needing to connect to the darkness inside of herself, and who is waiting there for her? 

And so yea, okay, hatesex is very appealing to me just inandofitself. It’s like double the passion and it’s animalistic and there’s something so sexy and gratifying about two people just using one another with equal force, yk? 

And Spike and Buffy are physically matched perfectly. She can take all her anger and pain and rage out on him without permanently damaging him. And she’s NEVER been able to let loose like that before. Her first time with Angel was a more tender and sweet moment and then - welp - turns out they can’t do the do. And otherwise she’s been with humans who she’s had to hold back with. There was zero holding back with Spike. 

So from Buffy’s perspective, there’s this amazing relief and release and yea, even, empowerment in being able to just freely let herself go in this way. 

From Spike’s point of view, it was about more. And here is where I feel for him because, at this point he’s still not really capable of love in the way we talk about it as being something from a soul. He’s chipped but not soul’d. He has strong feelings for Buffy that no vampire (besides cursed-soul Angel) should be able to have. But it’s not … quite … love. It’s passion and it’s care and it’s wanting and it’s even becoming something like friendship. But it’s not love, much as he thinks it is.

But he does Think it is. And he’s thinking it’s the same for her, but she just can’t admit it, yet. The hatesex to him … is just  … sex. And he fully believes he’s winning her over. And so her constant rejection of him as a fully human person with a soul and feelings guts him - even as he’s still trying to convince himself that he does love her and she does somehow secretly love him back. 

The fact that she keeps using him physically, and also keeps coming to him for emotional support, supports this belief and keeps him from understanding the reality of the situation.

Now, I think I mentioned than when I was watching this for the first time I was in heavy duty therapy mode yea? Well, there was another even heavier duty therapy mode a good tenish years prior when I had first admitted to the abuse I experienced and got really good and fucked up and made some bad personal decisions and here is where some of that comes to play because I saw myself in this scenario - again from both sides.

I am Buffy learning to enjoy the pleasures of my body and sexuality for the first time but also making really bad decisions about who to share that with because I am still so new to processing my trauma.

I am also Spike - longing for something more and better and being told (by myself) that I was not good enough, that I was bad, that I was not a full human person who deserved good things or good relationships.

(There, there, pastme - it does get better)

Back to first-time-Buffy-watching me. And I am enjoying the HECK out of the spuffy sex and I am feeling for poor pining Spike and feeling for Buffy who is hating herself for what she’s doing and also shipping them like WHOA because there is so much about their dynamic that is just sexy and fun and FEELS everywhere. 

But I knew Seeing Red was coming, because I did have a few things spoiled for me just by existing in the world for years without having watched the show yet myself. I really didn’t wanna watch it, or the rest of season six. So I got into a spiral of just watching the earlier parts of the season over and over - specifically the musical and through the 3 episodes of heavy spuffy sex. I did a LOT of processing during this time and then eventually girded myself to watch what I knew was coming. 

And Seeing Red is awful. Traumatic. Triggering. Terrible. But also, like, gods, did it make sense for where these two characters were at this point in time? I didn’t feel like it was contrived or somehow put in just for the heck of it. It made sense in the narrative. Spike legitimately just did not get it. He did not realize he was attempting rape until … finally … he did. 

And the horror of that, the horror of realizing that he almost did that to the ONE person in the world that he has ever cared that much about? Broke him. Sent him off on a magical quest to get his fucking soul back.

No one did that. Even Angel was Cursed with his soul, right? No vampire ever wanted to get their soul back - even had enough non-ensouled feelings to have the ability to want such a thing. Not to mention going through the trials of actually getting it back.

Season seven Spike is such a different beast. He’s messed up from the soul-thing, but I honestly believe Most of his messed-up-ness came from what The First was doing to/through him. Because … gods, okay.

When Spike goes through the flashbacks and recognizes what his trigger is? (Like the show legit uses PTSD terminology here - it was a Trigger) He processes his Own old traumas and he is able to tell Robin basically - fuck it, I know who I am. I know I did terrible things without my soul, but I can’t and won’t beat myself up for that (for example the way Angel does) because it wasn’t entirely my fault and all I can control now is who I am now and what I do now.

Now THAT spoke to me as a trauma survivor. Stop hanging on to all of this so-called badness inside, forgive yourself, and move on. WOW. Fucking powerful. 

And what he DOES choose to do is to be there for Buffy in any way she will allow him to.

Ensouled Spike is no longer creeping around her or making weird assumptions about her or trying to Get something From her. Ensouled Spike defends her when others attack. Ensouled Spike holds her all night when she needs it and gives her pep talks and asks what he can do to help and accepts when he can’t help and just stands there quietly willing to do battle With her. 

I just … phew… that makes me emotional. 

Because, again, I look back at some of those dysfunctional relationships I got into in my early 20′s and like. None of those fuckers would have done anything like that. 

And my attraction to the Fictional Bad Boy with a Hidden Heart of Gold was never about expecting any of them to. I was with them, unconsciously or even some cases consciously, on purpose to punish myself or to work out past traumas with or just to Feel Something. I never expected or even necessarily wanted deep love from them.

So, here’s the thing. None of those fuckers would have done anything like that for me. Nor I them. 

So Spike slowly gaining his redemption through his willingness to become a better person because of his love of Buffy? Fucking spoke to me.

And Buffy slowly accepting the darker parts of herself through her willingness to let Spike into her orbit because of her feelings for him? Fucking yes. 

And when she hands him the - shit it’s been a long time - that medallion meant for a champion? And he doesn’t think he’s worthy, but she says she knows he is. Fuck!!! That is ME accepting ME, okay? All of myself, the good and the bad, the ugly and the beautiful, the messed up and the slowly healing. All of it. 

And when he sacrifices himself in the end??? When that’s how she’s finally able to defeat The First? All that power sharing with all of the other women was *chefkiss* but it also took Spike. Spike who stormed on the scene in season two with snark and a twisted sense of love and no desire to ever be a hero? That Spike!? Sacrificing himself and STILL NOT BELIEVING BUFFY LOVES HIM. 

Because by then, let’s be clear, she did. Maybe not the same way he loved her, but she did love him. And he doesn’t believe it, can’t believe himself worthy of that love. But he sacrifices himself ANYway?

THAT Spike? Is no longer asking anything in return. He gives all of himself and won’t even accept her statement of love in return. “No, you don’t. But thanks for saying it anyway.” Just AUGJH?!? You know??? 

That was me … redeeming me … for me…. 

So anyway. 

I just want to add that AS I WAS WRITING THIS OUT, I got another ask in my inbox stating “People who like problematic or villainous characters are apologist for shitty people and should rethink their life because they’re shitty people.”

And this is the exact WRONG time to come for me like this because I just poured out my entire traumatized abuse surviving soul into the internet to explain why watching a problematic villain evolve and learn to do better helped ME to contextualize and process my fucking trauma. So fuck you. People who write anonymous hate without knowing the full story are being shitty and should rethink their actions because they’re shitting on actual REAL LIFE COMPLEX INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. 

The end. 

[raijinhasverybigpecs]

Hey, do you have any advice for somone who may wanna make fan gods for smite?

i’ll answer this to the best of my ability but know that i don’t make god concepts often lmao, i’ve made one in the past and that’s about it. if you want a better answer w/ someone who has personal experience you should ask @raijinswaifu as she’s got 10000 excellent god concepts so she probs has a little more knowledge than me lol ;P also ask @izahunny​ if you want to talk about the actual visual design of your fan god as his gods literally have the best outfits i’ve ever seen periodt!

anyways, here are some general tips lol

know what you actually want to make - if you just want to make a god for writing and what not then you don’t need to think about in-game stuff too much BUT try to consider:

what makes them interesting/different to other gods- there’s so many warrior gods out there with slightly different motives but they’re all basically the same guy so do try and make your concept interesting! also i’d avoid the greek/roman crossover as you might end up with the same god but very slight differences lol. don’t let that stop you from following that if you like that sorta stuff of course

their background (lore, personality, culture, pantheon relationships) - if you don’t do your research then you’ll get a god that shares a name with their source material but isn’t like them at all lol. you can defs put your own spin on them and re-contextualize it like persephone’s lore (because some versions of the myth are less than consensual… yikes) but don’t go too wild w/ that lol

naturally, using existing gods and pantheons is a whole lot easier than coming up with new ones. finding a god that’ll work for what you want is surprisingly easy as there’s so many niche deities around that you can really add detail to and flesh out. if you’re not too sure on how you want something to look or work then use other gods as a base as well

try to keep abilities lore/god power relevant otherwise you’ll end up with a backgroundless kit that could be given to another god with a few changes (i’m looking at you odin). the morrigan’s really great w/ her kit as it shows off all her powers really well, esp. that 2 w/ the extra dmg as that plays into her controlling fate and manipulating others into doing her bidding

don’t worry too much about appearance if you can’t draw, try to find a face claim (like actors, models, etc.) to help you visualise your god. i’ve also seen people make mood boards of their ocs and i think that’s a great way of showing who they are in another visual way

and don’t panic too much about numbers and stats, they help flesh out the gameplay but personally i care waaaaay more about the god themselves and what their story is

(also feel free to tag me in the finished product btw :^>)

[ideahat-universe]

Two birds with one stone.

So apparently Tuca and Bertie got the axe. If you think it’s bad it’s actually a little worse than you think because the show more than likely had a second season in the works as production automatically grants shows an additional season on technicality so that means that the show was doing REALLY BADLY. 

The question of course is “why?” Well for starters no one outside of tumblr cared about this show. I say this because I only knew about this show because it was featured on the radar. 

I looked into it after that and it lacked all the things that make Bojack Horseman work while having the things that Bojack Horseman made up for. 

Don’t get me wrong. The actual coloring and environmental design of Bojack is good but it gets a D in character design. If it was humans it would be average but for anthro characters it does an extremely poor job at embracing the creature that is being anthropormorphized. 

Drawing birds with human arms is a no no. Honestly, birds with mammal boobs is a negatory for me (although I am virtually the only person who thinks putting mammal boobs on birds is a bad design choice). 

You have to have the feathers. Feathers are to boobs what a tail is to a cat. You can have feather hands or clawed hands but the arms gotta have those feathers and that’s my main complaint. 

These just look like humans with a animal texture for skin that happen to be wearing a animal costume hat. That was good enough for Bojack as all the work was in the writing and the art style was just that. An artistic choice. No one tuned in because Bojack looked great. 

Meanwhile Tuca and Bertie has less going on writing wise. There’s more wacky antics but the art style is not wacky friendly. 

That stereotype of the Calart style is certainly more wacky friendly but shows like Family Guy or Futurama didn’t have the appeal it did because it appeased the male gaze or talked about sex a lot (both of which has had feminist friendly episodes by the way). It was the writing. 

Every show Matt Groaning and Seth MacFarlane has ever written was dependent on writing to carry. 

Of course Tuca and Bertie are not a silent cartoon. What sort of writing is in the show? Well, it’s female orientated raunch comedy. It has naked boobs in it and there’s lots of sex talk and it talks about objectification and doesn’t enable it. 

Where do I begin? 

First off. It’s not 1999. You can see casual boobs in a lot of places, on a lot of shows and on several websites that have makeshift age restrictions. We’ve all seen boobs. Additionally, when talking about naked anthro you will have to jump through the hurdle of people who find furries gross. Yes I know, they’re ultra lame people but that narrows the audience especially in this sense when talking about people’s sexuality. Can they really relate to that which is not like them? 

Anthro characters are a staple of fables where one adapts the complex life of humans and re-contextualizes it into a world where animals are like people. You can do the Zootopia thing and make proper analogies or you can sidestep direct references and make it more general and abstract. There’s even the option for a super idealized world where you show what things could be like if something about our current lives were fixed. 

Tuca and Bertie doesn’t talk about interesting and inclusive subjects and they don’t make use of anthropomorphism to develop a logical narrative and theme that has an interesting commentary on our existence or at the very least makes us feel good about who we are and what we can be. I know it wanted to do that but it didn’t do that well enough and it didn’t make use of the options it could have had. 

Now for the elephant in the room. Why is Big Mouth getting a few more seasons and Tuca and Bertie is being denied their complementary second season? 

Well, for starters people talked about Big Mouth, even if it was to hate it people talked about it which meant people watched it just to find out what it’s like. People defended Big Mouth more as well. it has an audience of normal people who really like it that extend beyond Tumblr. 

Why do normal people like it? Well, I’ve been told that it makes them nostalgic for their youth. The show is about teenagers (male and female) coming of age with both genders and additional sexuality and character backgrounds. 

It’s just more inclusive than Tuca and Bertie. It’s also much weirder and employs fantastical elements like ghosts and demons of desire to personify abstract concepts. 

The way I’m talking about it makes it sound like it’s a good show but it’s not. It has a lot of flaws. The biggest of which is that it shows the genitalia of minors. Lets not mince words, that’s doing it for somebody and some of those people are also the age of the main characters (I don’t know if that makes it okay or not but that is certainly happening). 

Big Mouth is a very perverted and perverse show that says it’s being a positive influence but then again 13 Reasons Why said it was trying to help people and look where that got them.

So Big Mouth is morally questionable and not that well written or drawn but it is inclusive and it is hitting a topic that is taboo and not only would never air on television but is typically restricted or banned on websites and it doesn’t have anthros in it so normies don’t feel like bestiality is on the table. 

Big Mouth is better at being a sex focused sexuality comedy slice of life show than Tuca and Bertie is.

I believe that the art director for Bojack wanted to make this a lot more than Bojack. 

Well. I’ll tell you what I told Lauren Faust about her pet project. 

No one cares. Your interests will be overshadowed by a infinitely more marketable product.

[vee-angel]

Upcoming Story Introductions

I just wanted to write a brief introduction to give a quick look at some of up-and-coming stories and story series I have in the works.

--The Pervert Pentet--

This is going to be a series of stories exploring the lives of five women who each embrace and exemplify a certain extreme fetish lifestyle. There is:

Potty-Mouth Piper- Skinny girl with Swedish ancestry and a punk-rock aesthetic. Piper is the epitome of a filth-fetishist. On top of living up to her name in the sense that she often insists that her mouth be used as a toilet, she speaks and acts in the most obscene ways possible. As an example, she has a tattoo on the side of her head (which is shaved into a green mohawk) which reads “Ass to Mouth 4Ever.” However, rather than the normal interpretation that anything that’s been up her ass must immediately go into her mouth, she insists that anything that goes into her mouth must have first been up her (or someone else’s) ass. Piper identifies as a lesbian, but is more-or-less free-use for any gender, due to her love of obscenity and bodily fluids. The early part of her story takes place in high school where she meets the love of her life; a timid filth-fetishist names Mackenzie; she becomes obsessed with Piper, who slowly helps Mackenzie open up to her fantasies. Mackenzie helps Piper feel as though she has someone who actually accepts her.

Sharking Sherry- Soft, feminine body with very pretty breasts, slightly large for her frame. Half-Japanese/Half Caucasian. Exposure/exhibitionism fetishist. Sherry grew up in a very Americanized family, but from a young age, she felt drawn to her Japanese ancestry. Her parents had no objections to her engaging in her Japanese culture (after all, things like Pokemon and anime were becoming increasingly commonplace). Due to their ignorance regarding how “adult” anime and manga could be, Sherry was exposed to themes of female humiliation/embarrassment as a form of comic relief at a young age and eventually started watching hentai in her early teens. As she became more adult, she became interested in a Japanese activity called sharking; the trend and fetish of exposing a woman in public against her will where it would be filmed and posted online. After high-school, she takes a year off to visit Japan where, much to her delight, she becomes the victim of a sharking video, but to her disappointment, only her panties are exposed. The experience re-ignites her interest and she later tries to make arrangements with someone online to participate in another sharking video in which she would get to shark another girl, but leaving her completely naked in public. However, due to a miscommunication resulting from her incomplete comprehension of the Japanese language, the people she meets with believe she wants to be the victim. With her having been so adamant about wanting to make the video, she ends up stripped completely naked and is forced to walk back to her hotel without her clothes. She finds the experience humiliating, but at the same time incredibly exhilarating. She decides that whatever else she does with her life, one thing she absolutely wants to do is to have her body and her sexuality exposed, and to expose the bodies and sexuality of other girls. In fact, this is how she ends up meeting Piper, who she ends up sharking, much to Piper’s amusement.

Non-consent Nancy- Nancy grew up as a shy, bisexual, African-American girl. She was bullied through much of her youth, but rather than resenting the bullies, she tried to befriend them in hopes that they would stop. She always tried to think of things they’d like, or ways she could be nice to them. Over time, she developed the coping mechanism of empathizing more with abusers and rapists and bullies than with their victims. In her mind, she often finds herself adamantly defending them and thinking that their victims should be punished. While in public, she maintains a persona of a typical college feminist/black lives matter/lgbt activist, she privately fetishizes victimization, often using her role as a rape-crisis counselor to arrange the re-victimization of women who confess their trauma to her, and to help and defend known rapists. She has an athletic build, due to exercising and women’s self-defense classes, but secretly, she uses her athleticism to abuse and rape other girls. She eventually develops a close friendship (in which she becomes something of a subordinate side-kick) with the artist Teira Volks.

Torture-lover Teira- German-born artist Teira Volks, average build, early 30’s, aryan features, straight blonde hair, perpetually serious expression. As a youth, Teira was close to her grandfather, who was a Nazi officer during WW2. She became fascinated with the idea of torture and suffering. Due to her connection to heinous war crimes, the idea of pain and despair felt very real to her. Not just like some abstract that people read in a history book. As she grew up, she became a controversial performance artist, often causing herself so much pain and harm that it became difficult for her to even find venues that would allow her to showcase such extreme self-abuse. In the past, she had sometimes employed assistants who would allow themselves to be abused, but she usually found them to be insufficiently masochistic, or unwilling to endure her forceful and pushy style of management. She eventually comes across Nancy, who she allows to participate in a performance with her. She finds that no matter how much Nancy hates what is being done to her, or how much she’s hurt or abused or humiliated; Nancy keeps coming back and never says a harsh word toward Teira. In time Teira takes on Nancy as a sort of full-time assistant, often treating Nancy as a slave; forcing her to participate in performances against her will. They meet Piper and Sherry at a performance near their college. The theme of the performance is “mirror,” in which anyone is allowed to do whatever they like to Teira, on the condition that they will allow it to be done to themselves. After Piper imposes her kinks on Teira, and subsequently submitting to having those same kinks imposed on herself, they become friends. With Piper, Teira, Nancy, and Sherry occasionally getting together and forming a tight-knit group.

Bimbo Bailee- Tall and pretty, in a trashy way. Bailee has huge fake tits and dresses in an incredibly exhibitionistic way. Her origins are a bit unclear as she seems too ditsy to remember ever not being a bimbo. Sherry, Piper, Nancy, and Teira meet her at a plastic surgeon's office. Piper makes an obscene comment upon noticing her (“Holy shit, look at the size of the fuck-bags on that little cock-socket!”), while Sherry discretely takes some upskirt pictures of her to post online later. After talking with her, they discover she seems to be profoundly stupid and impossibly gullible. As an example, after someone comments on her tramp stamp that reads “Butt Slut” she consistently says “Nuh uh, it’s a butterfly. That’s what the tattoo guy told me.” At times seeming to become flustered due to the fact that everyone keeps commenting that her tramp stamp (which she still insists is a butterfly) clearly reads “Butt Slut.” She seems to be so gullible that nearly any embarrassing trick or prank will work on her, regardless of how little thought is put into it. She’s consistently vain and often critical of the appearances of other women, generally contextualizing everything they do in the context of how attractive it makes them to men. She sometimes makes comments indicating that she doesn’t believe lesbians are sincere, and are only with each other as a way of getting attention from men. Despite her ditsyness and frequent critical comments about the other girls appearances, Piper, Sherry, Nancy, and Teira decide to invite her into their friend group due to how entertaining she is.

Each of these five characters will be getting their own story to start, and after they all meet up, there will sometimes be stories that involve all five of them, but more often stories will involve only a fraction of the full group.

--The Kinky Mass-Effect Fanfiction Trilogy--

This is the series that is the most fleshed out by far. This is going to be a trilogy of full length erotic novels set in the Mass Effect universe. The third book in this series was actually my first attempt at writing erotica (it sort of evolved from a sort of roleplay, and before I knew it, it was turning into a book). But a ways into the story, I realized that there was a lot of story leading up to the one I was writing, so I decided it needed to be a trilogy.

The story follows Dr. Biavalia Bi’tarah (usually called Beebee, by her friends), a dutiful asari slave and whore for her human master. Her playful sexuality and juvenile sense of humor belie her skill and competence as a fighter and engineer. The first book in the trilogy follows her as she deceives Commander Shepard (female) and Jack (aka Subject Zero) into helping her find someone who could aid her and her master into gaining an edge over the other slavers of the Terminus systems. Aria T’loak also makes an appearance. Throughout the first book, Beebee will happen across situations where sex and kink are preferable solutions to fighting (though there will still be a decent amount of action). And for those of you (like me) who were disappointed that Jack didn’t have any girl/girl romance options in the game, rest assured that the psychotic biotic will be having plenty of sapphic fun with the sapphire slut.

--Unnamed Female-Inferiority World--

At some point in the past, a genetic virus came about that only affected females. If untreated, it would degrade their DNA, and would eventually become fatal. It was discovered that the only way to repair the genetic damage was by administering incomplete pieces of human genetic material (i.e. human sperm). Early attempts to synthesize a more stable treatment were failures, and eventually society came to accept that all females would need to regularly absorb male semen, either anally, orally, or vaginally. This new sexual desperation among females reshaped how males and females interacted, with women having their very lives depending on how sexually appealing they were to men. Over the generations, women with unappealing bodies or personalities became scarce. Yet, every woman still knows that her long term survival depends on being more sexually appealing than the women around her, so even the most attractive and obedient females are still competitive.

Men in this world have become entitled and demanding as women have become more accomodating. Feminism is the greatest crime a female can commit and is punishable by a fate worse than death.

These stories will likely involve a strong emphasis on heavy and extreme kinks. Misogyny, rape, humiliation, torture, filth, and even snuff will be recurring themes. This is most likely going to be a series of stories exploring various aspects and characters of this alternative universe. While I’ve had multiple fantasies set in this universe, it’s probably the least developed so far.

[shirlleycoyle]

The Many App Stores Before the App Store

A version of this post originally appeared on Tedium, a twice-weekly newsletter that hunts for the end of the long tail.

How much credit does Apple deserve for introducing its App Store concept to mainstream consumers? I mean, how obvious is the idea, anyway?

This is a question that seems worth asking as modern app development has become so centered around building applications that exist in digital storefronts like Apple’s App Store, the Google Play Store, Steam, and numerous others. What about app stores that existed when the proverbial dodo was still around? There are more than you think.

“A trip back in time reveals at least one popular one-click store which predates Apple’s attempt by at least 5 years. I know because I built it.”

— Michael Robertson, the software developer best known for his creation of MP3.com, in a blog post discussing his work on “Click-N-Run,” an early attempt at creating a digital download store along the lines of the App Store in the early 2000s. Click-N-Run (CNR), which was an aspect of the commercial Windows-like Linux distribution Linspire that Robertson helped build, was a commercial GUI-style interface for Debian’s apt package manager. It was eventually made available to other distros to much interest, though the results were reportedly a mixed bag. While no longer made, Linspire’s work on CNR (one of a few stabs at the GUI-based software distribution interface in Linux) likely inspired the graphical package managers now commonly offered with many Linux distributions, which largely work the same way.

The question around what an app store actually is probably starts with shareware

Let’s play a game: If you were to access a piece of shareware circa 1991 and wanted to unlock the full version of that application with your computer alone, how would you do it?

No web. Perhaps no Windows. (Perhaps GeoWorks.)

Sure, there were probably lots of ways to download an application, if you had the tools to do so—as in, a modem. Perhaps you might grab it on a BBS, or through a service like Compuserve. Maybe Usenet binary groups were your preferred strategy.

But still, you’d be stuck with a nag screen. Your copy of WinZip would just be annoying you every time you started it.

See, the issue with the distribution of software via computer was never about the download part—that part was figured out relatively quickly. It was the paying part that proved difficult.

Think about how it might work compared to a store: You choose a physical object of interest, you give a physical object of value (i.e. money) in exchange, an intermediary (i.e. a cashier) confirms you bought it (by scanning a barcode), and you walk out, without an object of value but with an object of interest.

Which is why every time you read a story about some shareware pioneer, like the developer of Paint Shop Pro or Tim Sweeney’s efforts to sell folks ZZT, it’s always paired with a story about these developers literally taking checks in the mail, despite the fact that it was entirely possible to purchase things fully electronically with a credit card by this point.

Without the retail element, people were kind of stuck distributing software without a way to easily purchase it. (What’s the big deal, the open-source folks say.) There was no way to secure the process, so therefore, fraud was prevalent. And if people are distributing through multiple systems, the experience of downloading becomes annoying, because it feels wildly inconsistent.

This is the problem a few entrepreneurs worked to solve starting in the mid-to-late 1990s, with varying levels of success.

1993

The year that Tucows, a well-known repository of downloadable software, first went online. The repository was built by Scott Swedorski, a technology enthusiast in Flint, Michigan, who spotted a need for a central resource for basic internet software. Swedorski’s work, while not initially intended to be commercial, proved the basis of a long-running company that came to prove an essential part of the early internet. After all, we needed software to get on the internet, right?

An example of the Electronic AppWrapper, a program for NeXT computers that could be used to distribute software digitally. Image: JohnWayneTheThird/Wikimedia Commons

The first “app store” on a Steve Jobs-operated platform involved a CD-ROM and an email-sending mechanism

The app store that generally gets the nod for being first dates to the early 1990s, on a platform that was responsible for a lot of software firsts. I’m, of course, talking about NeXT, the platform on which the World Wide Web came to life and whose object-oriented approach to programming became a big part of what has made iOS so successful.

That software is called the Electronic AppWrapper. (See, it had “app” in the name way back in 1993!)

It did not exactly have the same kind of distribution method that one might expect for a modern app store, however. Really, what it did that is incredibly clever was that it took the shareware CD-ROM and made it into something that allowed for trials.

NeXT was a good platform for this in part because of its initial target audience—since the NeXT Cube tended to focus on educational and research settings, those settings were often networked well before PC and Mac equivalents, so people were able to purchase software online before other markets.

In fact, Electronic AppWrapper developer Paget Systems, which initially built a print version of the AppWrapper, made this very point in a 1992 article first proposing the idea:

The NeXT community is a perfect testbed for electronic distribution. The market is still small; we know where almost all of the computer owners are, and the community is more fluent with networking than most. And we have more than our share of creative people willing to tackle problems in new ways.

Also helping matters: Since NeXT systems were rare, users of this platform didn’t really have the advantage of being able to go to Radio Shack to purchase software, so it was either do everything through the mail, or go electronic.

Paget Systems’ great gift to the app store concept was the process it enabled. A 1993 issue of NeXTWORLD described the benefits of the tool like this: “To order by e-mail, just click a button; the application automatically displays an order form, asks for your credit-card number, and sends an encrypted message to Paget.”

That sounds pretty simple, right? It was, and it's not all that dissimilar to how we do things today.

(Side note: Jesse Tayler, who helped develop Electronic AppWrapper, has put up an informative documentary website highlighting the history of NeXT and the innovations the company helped to enable—including this. A highlight is Tayler’s discussion of successfully demoing the Electronic AppWrapper to Steve Jobs.)

“Since virtual shelf space is much cheaper than a storefront, Online can represent thousands of products. We can carry Microsoft Word and hundreds of related add-on products, while traditional re-sellers can barely find shelf space for mainstream software.”

— Tim Choate, the president of the firm Online Interactive, discussing the company’s atOnce online software store, which was one of the first examples of a traditional app store for Windows computers. As NetworkWorld explained in 1996, the atOnce software store was something of a test, complete with Microsoft’s blessing, to see if application distribution of commercial software over network mediums was even possible. The process required a more secure approach, at Microsoft’s behest. It should be noted that atOnce provides an interesting case—as it was effectively the app store for the AOL era (along with a very early web presence), though it quickly went away.

The Digital River website, as it appeared in 1998. Image:  Internet Archive

The guy who realized that downloadable apps were going to be a really big deal in 1994

Joel Ronning probably doesn’t get the credit he deserves in the grand scheme of things, but he is a figure in this discussion that matters.

In the 1980s, he spent time focused on the Macintosh market, selling software and distributing white-label accessories as well. This gave him an understanding of the digital market, so he could see all the flaws of the retail approach up close.

Around 1993 or so, he had a revelation that proved prescient: downloadable commercial software was going to be big. Really big. Big enough that he should spend the next few years developing processes for making the ideas around secure downloadable software workable, and patenting them. And building a company around them. And turning them into something that other companies would likely want to use.

Ronning’s work led to the creation a dozen patents—and a company called Digital River that could handle the encryption and distribution of applications. Not that anyone knew how to properly contextualize the idea at that early stage. In a 1997 profile with the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, columnist Dick Youngblood tried, and came up with this:

What Digital River has created is an enormous virtual warehouse containing tens of thousands of software products offered by hundreds of developers and retailers through their individual Web sites. 

In simple terms, the system gives customers the ability to download their software choices with a minimum of fuss and a maximum of security for the credit card numbers and other personal data required for the transaction. I like to think of the operation as sort of the Supervalu of electronic software wholesaling.

Imagine having to describe something that people do over the internet on a daily basis without being able to use the terms “app store” or “cloud,” nor the frame of references that come with those terms, and that’s probably what you might come up with.

A patent drawing by Digital River that showed an early example of its digital-distribution technology, which included encryption functionality. Ronning has a lot of patent filings to his name. Image: Google Patents

The approach Digital River took in this early stage is actually quite similar to what we think of as an app store today—including the idea that the middleman is going to take a cut. (Digital River took just 20 percent, rather than Apple’s infamous 30 percent cut.)

But one difference is that the company represented a provider of purchasing services—i.e., it built the tools for individual companies to create their own storefronts, rather than becoming an app-store player itself. This model worked for them. By the year 2002, Digital River (a still-active company!) had more than 32,000 customers according to NetworkWorld, with roughly a third of those representing three quarters of Digital River’s sales.

“Year over year we continue to see more products purchased digitally.” Ronning said in a NetworkWorldinterview. “People are getting more comfortable with getting a digital file than they were one, two or six years ago. That’s good news because it allows us to deliver a product halfway around the world in a matter of seconds.”

And hey, because the company was in a position to provide the technical know-how of running an app store, there was at least one case where Digital River was tapped to manage someone else’s app store—the creation of Research in Motion’s Blackberry App World in 2009.

Download Warehouse, a.k.a. what app stores would look like if we made no changes to our approach between physical and digital distribution. Fun fact: This is what the atOnce website evolved into. Image: Internet Archive

Not every site was a winner, of course: When looking for info about app stores, I ran across this website on the Internet Archive that literally sold digital software as if it was still in a shrink-wrapped box, which made me crack up so hard. The backend? Digital River.

In many ways, the success of the app store was just as much about the packaging—i.e., the way consumers were pitched about the idea, rather than the shrink wrap—as the commerce itself.

1996

The year StarCode Software, a developer of software for the BeOS operating system, was formed. The company built PackageBuilder and SoftwareValet, which combined together to become one of the first graphical package managers purpose-built for an operating system—and one Be acquired in 1998 and integrated into the operating system.

Stardock Central, a digital distribution service produced by the customization-focused company Stardock. Image: via the Stardock website

Five mainstream examples of app stores that predated the Apple App Store

Steam. The digital distribution service started by Valve in 2003 was effectively the app store that proved the model to the world in a big way. There’s a reason why Steam remains so dominant in the PC gaming space, and it’s because they nailed it the first time—to the point where many of its competitors directly mimic the service.

Windows Marketplace. This circa-2004 online store, targeted at consumers, was an attempt by Microsoft to centralize the often-confusing app distribution options for Windows software. It wasn’t successful, but it helped set the stage for later digital storefront successes for Microsoft.

Club Nokia. This online store for Nokia’s early mobile phones provides a really interesting example of a service that was essentially a direct analogue to the modern iOS App Store, but in a situation where the carriers, rather than the phone-maker, holds all the power. This service, founded in 1997, became controversial as ringtones became more popular, and Nokia eventually folded to pressure from mobile carriers and scaled back its service in favor of the mobile providers’ options. Could you imagine Verizon and AT&T doing this to Apple today?

Xbox Live Arcade. Launched in 2004, this represented an important formative effort in the attempts to bring digital download services to a large group of people. One secret to the success of Xbox Live Arcade was its piggybacking upon what Microsoft was doing elsewhere; it leveraged the existing Xbox Live service to sell people more simplistic games. (Apple later replicated this by using its mechanisms for the iTunes Store to sell apps.) It later proved the starting point for the company’s Xbox Live Marketplace, which could distribute full shrink-wrapped games to consumers.

Stardock Central. I’ve mentioned them in Tedium before, but Stardock is an interesting company historically because of the fact that it was early to a number of important trends that have become even more essential today. One of those trends was customization; another was digital distribution, which it first dipped its toes into with Stardock Central, an app-distribution service from circa 2001. It worked particularly well for Stardock in part because it offered apps in a variety of verticals, including games.

The NTT DoCoMo NEC N904i, a phone that supports the formative i-mode network, is considered the first mobile app store ecosystem. Image: Wikimedia Commons

The turning point of the app store concept, honestly, is the mobile phone

Thinking less about the maker of the phone itself or its general functionality, the mobile phone represents something about technology that a regular desktop computer doesn’t—it is intended as a full package, one that is hermetically sealed and managed by its maker and distributor.

Because it started from a different place, the expectation is different. That expectation creates tension for power users who wish that their phones or tablets worked a little more like their laptops, but on the other hand, the devices aim broader for a reason.

And one can point to the reason for the expectation that applications would be managed by the provider. After all, the first mobile app store that feels like what we got with the modern App Store or Play Store came from a mobile company—Japan’s NTT DoCoMo released i-mode, a service that offered access to digital services through their phones. It worked particularly well in Japan because home internet was rare at the time when i-mode was first released in 1999, meaning i-mode was many Japanese users’ first experience with an internet-style service.

As The Japan Times noted in 2011, the reason i-mode succeeded (and spawned many imitators) was the tight integration of payments and software:

For those of you who may not know, i-mode is the mobile Internet-access service built into cell phones from Japanese communication giant NTT Docomo. It costs ¥315 per month to use and includes the i-mode network, which is Docomo’s closed system, separate from the Internet at large. Within this network there are “official” i-mode sites, which are only accessible from an i-mode enabled cell phone. On sites such as these, users can purchase goods and services and have the payment appear on their cell phone bill. This cell phone-integrated-payment is what makes the i-mode system so special.

Other companies tried to do this same thing during the early 2000s, including firms like Nokia, to mixed levels of success, but the connective tissue was that the phone was treated like an integrated experience of purchasing, distribution, and usage, rather than a vessel for applications.

Perhaps this integration explains, in the present day, why Apple has ramped up attacks against sideloading (or allowing the installation of external applications outside of an App Store experience), something that nearly other mobile platform (including Android) has long allowed. As it wrote in a white paper it recently released:

Allowing sideloading would degrade the security of the iOS platform and expose users to serious security risks not only on third-party app stores, but also on the App Store. Because of the large size of the iPhone user base and the sensitive data stored on their phones—photos, location data, health and financial information—allowing sideloading would spur a flood of new investment into attacks on the platform.

Mobile phones have been built with this expectation that the whole experience is seamless and managed by the hardware developer—and at one point, the mobile provider even played a significant role. In some cases, it still does.

But one wonders how strong Apple’s case against sideloading will actually be, given that, y’know, it also sells desktop computers that allow sideloading … or as we call it over that way, downloading and installing apps from the Web.

It’s long been said that Apple, when it released the iPhone, launched a device so compelling that it made people forget that there was years of prior art that predated the moment.

In many ways, the App Store made people forget about app stores. It was such a brilliant concept, idea, and execution that when Steve Jobs announced it in 2008, people basically ignored the nearly two decades of prior art that wasn’t even particularly well-hidden.

In some ways, the move to centralization was arguably disappointing, because it wasn’t perfect, and it put a middleman in control. Apple’s approach to the digital storefront had flaws—most notably the size of its cut (which companies like Microsoft are now explicitly counterprogramming against) and the weirdness of putting a single company’s moral compass in charge of the apps that people downloaded.

But we can look at the positives of their approach as well, and sort of the element that they nailed that few others were able to in quite the same way. The integration of the App Store into the operating system made both better; the integration of commerce into the App Store using a common system solved the problem of having to give a credit card number out every time you wanted to download an app; and the integration of a development strategy that worked in tandem with the App Store gave (and still gives) Apple a reason to constantly improve its programming interfaces so they remain at the top of their class.

No developer of a prior app storefront had been able to nail down quite this mix (with Steam possibly getting the closest), which explains why it was so effective when Apple did it.

But prior art is prior art, and one hopes that the technology industry takes a step back to learn the lessons from both the Apple App Store’s strengths and weaknesses going forward. After all, so many others got there first.

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