#i think a lot of what interested me in the VC books was like the philosophical/moral questions that come up for them

[13eyond13]

gotta say i tried watching the iwtv series but the tone just seems off somehow. there are good things about it sure, and i do love sam reid (?) as lestat, but the tone issue is similar to why i think vampire diaries is so off-putting for me. like, it focuses on sex and blood so strongly in a way, and sort of misses the elements that made the books so interesting to me. i wish i could explain this vibe better, lol.

that being said, i would be interested in your opinion on the show if you ever watch it! often when i happen to know the piece of media you're talking about you voice things about it that i haven't been able to put into words myself but strongly agree with, haha.

I'll try watching it today since the books are still fresh in my mind and see what I think! Curious to know instead of just judge mostly based on clips and gifs...

[savagewildnerness]

Here are your results!

Personally I need as much “The Past” as possible, as TVL is my favourite VC book & I need it adapted.

I’m obviously excited about modern day stuff too! Like, rockstar Lestat is fun! You know I love music! I love Daniel Hart! I love Sam’s voice! I’m excited for other characters in modern day! I’m excited for Louis & Armand & Daniel! Obviously Armand will also be in The Past! And all of those characters can be in parts of The Past! And I feel we shall get ghost Claudia too. And OH, we’ll feel her!

But I need to feel from human Lestat & young vampire Lestat as I do from the book. I need to feel all the existential things I feel from TVL. I need human Gabrielle & I need Nicolas because he has meant a lot to me since I was very young so I need to feel his true essence. (I could write an essay just on what I need to feel from Nicki, but that’s not the point here!)

The existential contemplation is what I love about The Vampire Chronicles & why I love them. And that has its epitome in The Vampire Lestat. Because we get Lestat as a human here & the foundation for what he’ll feel eternally is dependent on & rooted in his human experience of & in & then the loss of his human life. And the fact that he’ll exist for eternity. But the one thing he can never do is live the human life he might have done. And to get this story informs what you can feel from Lestat in the entire rest of all stories, in my opinion.

What’s interesting about vampires? It’s hard to be alive as a human. What is the meaning of existing at all? Can we have purpose? Can our lives have meaning even if we don’t fit into the expectations most follow? Can we fit in in a world we (& I think we all feel this?) in many ways feel utterly alien to everyone else & unable to fit with some “norm” expected of us? Could we exist in the vastness of eternity? And would that be easier or harder? Can we, through the experience of literal monsters find a way to accept the monstrous aspects of our selves?

So, as long as these questions are there, yay!

And I’m excited for lots of new modern day stuff too.

But if we for example get a world tour of rockstar Lestat, but then we don’t get The Witches’ Place, or we don’t get Lestat as Lelio, or we don’t get Lestat’s on stage crisis, or we don’t get his existential crisis as a human with Nicolas… I then would cry. There are obviously *some* things we’ll definitely from the past: (The Wolves, Magnus, Gabrielle.)

That’s not to say I couldn’t be happy with any of the options in my poll. Personally I’ll cry if we aren’t in 18th century France for a good proportion of S3. But I also believe in Rolin.

And although my view is clearly the minority view, it’s interesting to hear everyone’s views, and to know that the biggest amount of people hope for a similar proportion of past/present to S1 & 2.

[monstersinthecosmos]

Little Drink as edging and MURDER as orgasming is the most mindbendingly hot and truthful parallel to ever be drawn. Just. Cannot get past it

 Yes, YES!!!

Like I know I’m Marius Brained and everything but even when I’m reading TVA and in Armand’s POV I am always like, god this must have been killing Marius. 🥵

The Devil’s Minion era (once they warm up to each other) and Venice Era are really the only times in canon we get to see a prolonged courtship between a vampire and human, yeah? But the books constantly tell us about how killing & drinking is the ultimate form of intimacy. (Notice me being very very mature and not devolving into an Asexual VC dissertation LMAO pin that for later). I’m not counting Lestat & David as a prolonged courtship because David was Not Interested and they weren’t sharing blood before Lestat finally turned him, and still David’s turning is explicitly described as rape and written to be erotic. But the overlap of Venice & Devil’s Minion is too obvious to ignore and we see the way the human/vampire relationship finds ways to translate their interspecies erotic desires by sharing sex acts (for the human) and blood (for the vampire).

STILL! 

The Little Drink isn’t all they need! Like they’re not just taking a little sip and fucking off for the night — Thorne describes it as being a bee going from flower to flower! Drinking from many many people! And the books tell us that it’s not ONLY the blood itself — it’s the murdering that’s the truly intimate and most special act!!!!! 

So anyway just.

Taking little sips for years and years ! The blue balls, my god. And finally getting to take him all the way!!!!!!! God. 🥵💦

Especially like reading B&G and knowing that Armand was like, Marius’s 3rd choice rebound during that time period LMAO. He wanted Botticelli and had to leave Florence to not kill him! He wanted Bianca and had to remove himself from her social circle to not kill her!!! 

This is my favorite Marius quote in VC, when he’s feeling like he’s going to murder Bianca — 

For a moment, I thought my powerful self-control would be lost. I would embrace her, whether or not she would have it, and take her rapidly by force from the very middle of her warm and safe rooms to the cold and fatal domain of my soul.

He finds Armand because he’s trying to like ethically source a fledgling (great job buddy that’s the worst anyone has ever done it) by choosing someone who’s on borrowed time, anyway! Blank slate that he can groom for vampirism!!!!!! 

I was just talking to @apoptoses today about how the concept of “this sounded cool until I actually tried it” comes up a bunch in VC — we were talking about Daniel romanticizing murder until he actually had to do it LOL — but same for Marius thinking he can just mold a trafficked boy to be a good vampire. So it’s not just like, Marius having a relationship with him and taking little sips as a fucking aperitif for The Act but like, he almost immediately changes his mind and doesn’t want to do it !!! He’s willing to deny himself !!! 

Gosh where’s that other thing he says in TVA…

“I’m coarsened by human blood. It's always the fact. Only in starvation do I find an ethereal purity.” "Ah, and you turn me from penance at every juncture," I said, "towards the senses, towards pleasure."

Just, oof. Especially for Marius who, from what we can tell, is a little more into humans than most of the cast? Like he’s someone that craves social connection and wants to be around them all the time. Even when he was alive and he was traveling to meet and study people in taverns. So I think there’s just a lot wrapped up in this ! 

I shared this a couple weeks ago but I wanna share it again because I think it will make everyone understand VC better and we’ll all write better fanfics for it LMAO it’s based on Hellraiser but it's the topic of eroticism in religious penance !!!!! Very excellent. 

But the eroticism of suffering! Of denial! Inside the universe of Written By Crazy Catholic Lady VC we also have to talk about how eroticism is the kill & the blood and how abstinence is akin to starvation - how it’s something actually painful.

Anyway I’m gonna leave it here I think because I’ll talk all day but I was poking through TVA and B&G for some quotes about this and I’m just !!!!!!

Marius on Armand:

I had never experienced such pure intimacy with a mortal, except with those I meant to kill. It gave me chills to have my arms around this boy, to press my lips to his cheeks and chin, his forehead, his tender closed eyes. Yes, the blood thirst rose, but I knew so well how to control it. I filled my nostrils with the smell of his youthful flesh.

"He is irresistible, but what am I to do?

Armand on Marius: 

"Amadeo," he said, his lips on my throat as they'd come a thousand times, only this time there came a sting, sharp, swift and gone. A thread stitched into my heart was jerked all of a sudden. I had become the thing between my legs, and was nothing but that. His mouth nestled against me, and again that thread snapped and again. I saw him staring, beastlike, from his chair, as if some ravener had come into him and banished all his civilized faculties and left him thus, hungry, with glazed eyes and reddening mouth, the glittering blood finding its myriad little paths over the silky margin of his lips. He rose, a drugged thing, and came towards me with a rhythm of movements that was alien and struck the coldest terror in my heart. His fingers flashed, closed, beckoned. I ran to him. He lifted me in both hands, clutching my arms ever so gently, and tucked his face against my neck. From the soles of my feet up my back through my arms and my neck and scalp, I felt it.

"Master, Master, Master, I love you." "Yes, well, that's not so unusual," he whispered. He didn't stop his kissing. He lapped at the blood. I writhed under the weight of his hand on my backside. "But the question is, Amadeo, why do I love you? Why? Why did I have to go into that stinking brothel and look upon you? I am strong by nature ... whatever my nature ..." He greedily kissed a large bruise on my thigh. I could feel his sucking at it, and then the tongue lapping it, eating the blood, and then his blood coming down into it.

And this from TVA when he finally does it:

He bent his lips. A sense of dreadful awesome finality swept over me. "You will die now to be with me in life eternal," he whispered in my ear. "Never for a moment must you really fear. I will hold your heart safe in my hands." His teeth cut into me, deeply, cruelly with the precision of twin daggers, and I heard my heart thud in my ears. My very bowels contracted, and my stomach was knotted in pain. Yet a savage pleasure swept through all my veins, a pleasure which coursed towards the wounds in my neck. I could feel my blood rush towards my Master, towards his thirst and my inevitable death. Even my hands were transfixed with vibrant sensation. Indeed, I seemed suddenly to be but a puppet map of circuitry, all of it aglow, as with a low, obvious and deliberate sound, my Master drank my life's blood. The sound of his heart, slow, steady, a deep reverberating pounding, filled my ears. The pain in my intestines was alchemized to a soft sheer rapture; my body lost all weight, all knowledge of itself in space. The throb of his heart was within me. My hands felt the long satin locks of his hair, but I did not hold to them. I floated, supported only by the insistent heartbeat and thrilling current of all my swiftly flowing blood. "I die now," I whispered. This ecstasy could not endure.

(What’s also funny is that the turning from Marius’s POV is so much about Armand’s religious ecstasy and revelations - thanks Catholic Lady but also that’s whole eroticism-mysticism thing again. Also the way that Marius treats it like a wedding so. Jsdkgla.)

I’m going to be so fucking honest with you, I was gonna pull a bunch of quotes and I think there were some more I was gonna look up but I got a little too squirmy reading these ones 🥵🥵🥵🥵 dhjkadslg I THINK I’VE MADE MY POINT.

[licncourt]

Maybe a long ask but if you had to pick one highlight from each book from the vc, what would it be? The standouts moments from each book, or the ones that have stuck with you till now.

That's a really fun question!! Easier for some books than others for sure and tbh a lot of them will probably be whatever the Loustat Thing was in that particular book because nothing else good was going on, but I'll do my best! Picking the stupidest thing from each book after a certain point would take half the amount of thinking 💀

Interview with the Vampire: this one is going to be the hardest for sure because every single line makes me feel crazy and sweaty, but if I really had to pick just one I would have to say the prostitute scene. I think it’s Anne’s best character building for them both in IWTV and I find it just as layered and striking and impactful every time I read it. I have lots of thoughts about it here and here if anyone’s interested!

The Vampire Lestat: I'm going to cheat slightly on this one because I absolutely have to mention the Loustat reunion scene because it completely changed my brain chemistry at 15 years old and it's maybe my favorite romantic scene in any book ever, but in terms of just. Oh my God what a scene. I would have to choose Lestat's turning in the tower. It's such a visceral rape allegory without feeling forced or clunky. Something about the context of being turned into a vampire really taps in the almost body horror aspect of experiencing a sexual assault and the feeling of being fundamentally changed in an awful and permanent way. It’s so hard to read but in a good way.

Queen of the Damned: It's hard to pick a specific scene here (besides the obvious Loustat stuff at the end), but in general I think the Devil's Minion chapter is some of the best writing and relationship crafting that Anne ever did. In just one chapter she created something so enduring and fascinating with Daniel and Armand, enough to build essentially a whole fandom off of. She said so much with so little and it might be her last great masterpiece within VC.

Tale of the Body Thief: I had a hard time with this because there are some surprisingly great Lestat character building moments throughout this book, but the scene that always sticks out to me is the conversation between Louis and Lestat in the church close to the end of the book. It’s incredibly poignant and indicative of how much love there is between them just by showing the pain they can cause each other. It’s also a very humanizing moment for Lestat with where his character is going, he’s rendered so well here. It’s some of the most satisfying characterization for him in the 90s, it really shows his constant war between hardness and tenderness and old and new versions of himself.

Memnoch the Devil: Armand's suicide in this one always gets me because of how tragic it is in so many ways. In his mind, the events of the book confirm to him that his deepest held childhood beliefs AND the beliefs of the cult he'd finally freed himself from mentally and physically are true. All that healing is undone in moments and it's such a gut punch to watch him implode like that and see this pillar of a vampire crumble under his trauma. Knowing that it was originally meant to be a permanent death is even more chilling.

The Vampire Armand: Maybe because of his semi-death in Memnoch, I really enjoy the scene where Armand drinks from Lestat while most of the main vampires are gathered in the church. It’s not part of the main backstory that’s being told in the book, but I think it’s a striking moment after the events of the last one. This is just a personal favorite though.

Merrick: horrible, horrible book but omfg the scene where Lestat revives Louis after his suicide attempt holy shit....it makes me feel insane it's so good. I wish it was one million pages long.

Blackwood Farm: I honestly don't think I have one for BF ?? I don't remember a single thing about that book besides the ghost twincest

Blood and Gold: I do not give enough of a fuck about Marius to have a highlight from this book I’m sorry, I just can’t.

Blood Canticle: I've only read this book in full once and not with a lot of dedication, but there's this one part where Lestat just kind of shuts down, lays on the bed, and admits that modern life is too bright, too fast, and too loud and he's scared and lonely. In such an absurd fever dream of a book that really feels like rock bottom for Anne's writing, it's a throwback to TVL Lestat that feels so incredibly honest. It's such a small thing, but it's my biggest "oh....he's still in there after all" moment in very later canon. I would also have to mention just the opening monologue from Lestat too though because it's certainly memorable and certainly a highlight.

Prince Lestat: LOUSTAT MUTUAL I LOVE YOU SCENE was my immediate thought, but I would have to officially say the Louis chapter epilogue because it’s the only real closure and full circle moment we get with him as a character. I wish there could have been so much more and that it didn’t feel like an afterthought, but I’ve changed my stance over the past year or so and I guess I’m at peace with Louis lobotomy. Whatever it takes to make him happy I suppose + it was the only good outcome with Anne’s general vibe in regards to him. Even if it’s not truly satisfying without narrative buildup, it makes me very happy every time I read it.

Realms of Atlantis: Lestat officially asking Louis to marry him come to live with him at the chateau. I was 16 when this book came out and I remember where I was when I read this like old people with the moon landing. It almost makes up for aliens.

Blood Communion: This is kind of a Blackwood Farm book to me where most of it is just ??? even after reading it two or three times, but I think the ending is very sweet and kind of the best case scenario for all of this so I do have a certain fondness for it. I think most people would agree that at the very least it’s nice and enjoyable which is not always true of a VC book.

[the-sappho-of-lesbos]

Hiya

I was wondering this since Im in my single era but want to have some hope that it could change

Could you tell the story of how you and your gf got together?

I actually get a little embarrassed about how we met lolol.

So I was in a discord server for Australian lesbians (no longer in that one ) and when I joined I noticed she had a Pokémon avatar photo so I was initially intrigued because I always love a nerdy lady.

We talked a little and become friendly but not friends.

She was talking a lot in the server about being sad over her ex so I ended up reaching out to her privately so she could talk about it and I was like offering her books and stuff that I thought would make her feel better.

Started developing a slight crush on her on more but more of a curious crush not a full blown crush.

Then I asked her if she wanted to watch a studio Ghibli movie with me. (It was howl’s moving castle). The player was acting all funny when she tried to share her screen so I actually secretly watched it on my phone while she was playing it so we could still watch it together. I think we also watched Princess Mononkoke but I can’t remember if that was before or after we started dating.

We continued talking after that.

One night we were in a group voice chat with some other ladies on the server (I would also drop whatever I was doing to join in on a VC if I noticed she was there lol). After everyone else had left we stayed on. I can’t remember what we were talking about but I remember going on about how I was really ugly and she ended up confessing to me. We stayed up for hours talking at that point.

I told her I liked her too but we both didn’t want to commit to anything until we had met in person.

Not long after that she caught a plane to my state to visit for the weekend. We spent the weekend together and decided to make it official.

And now it’s been 2 years! (As of yesterday lolol).

There have definitely been a lot of challenges on my end. Just because I didn’t anticipate how badly some of my illnesses would react to being in a relationship. I would get so stressed and overwhelmed and my OCD was in full swing. I was doubting EVERYTHING. All the time. I got in my head about us being compatible or not being able to share interests that were important to me. Worried if we wanted different things. I was too scared to tell most people I was even in a relationship because my ocd had convinced me they would die if they found out. I had so many unrealistic and fictionalised ideas of what a relationship was supposed to be and I was always comparing myself to couples online to see if I was feeling what I was supposed to. Do I love her enough? Is this what being happy is meant to feel like ? Am I really a lesbian? Am I doing something wrong? Will this last?

I’ve gotten a lot better at it but it’s still really hard and overwhelming at times. I’m so lucky that my gf and I are both so mental health informed though because we are able to show up for each other in the areas that we need.

And I know I love her and that even if we don’t work out I won’t lose her because she is my best friend.

All of this probably makes it sound super dramatic but we actually have a very chill and easy relationship in those two years we have only had one argument and it was just because we were super overstimulated and both of our respective ways of handling stress were kind of incompatible.

I do think the biggest barrier in our relationship is our distance and my mental health. But all in all I think we handle it pretty well! ♥️

I wish you lots of love and I hope you have a wonderful day ♥️♥️

[nalyra-dreaming]

I hope you are doing alright!!!

Who do you think will be the main love interest for Lestat in season 3? I know Louis is his main love interest in the overall show, but that doesn't always mean that they will be the main relationship for the season or have the most screen time as a relationship like we learned from season 2. Especially with a lot of this season being told in flashbacks. I think Loustat actually might be shown the least because they are going to save their reunion until the end of the season like they did in season 2 with Lestat. There also isn't too much left to explore between Loustat because we already know they are the main and end couple and we know they are it for each other. I think the love interests and relationship that will have the most exploration for Lestat in season 3 will be Armand, followed by Gabrielle, then Nicki, then Louis.

As for Louis, I think his relationship exploration will be mostly between him and Daniel this season, then maybe Armand, followed by Lestat.

Also, how much Dev Min development will we get in season 3?

... Nonny... the VC don't work like that. They are doing the books.

And the relationships are in the books. There is no "main love interest" in the sense of the word. There's relationships. These characters are old, have history, and history with each other.

Meaning, s3 will have/show relationships between Lestat and Nicolas, Lestat and Armand, Lestat and Gabrielle, and Lestat and Louis. Depending on what they do with the season there might be flashbacks to Armand with Marius.

I am not convinced the show will open up Daniel and Louis in a relationship manner, I think they established the "little brother" dynamic as Jacob called it, and whether that will be explored in depth...

And I disagree, I think there are MASSIVE amounts to be explored between Loustat :) Trust me, there's a lot coming for them still, and I for one am very much looking forward to it.

As per Devil's Minion... I am not sure.

I mean, they have to, given that Daniel got already turned. But how much of the story it will take up is anybody's guess.

That said, I do think the show is built on Louis, Lestat, Armand and Daniel as the cornerstones, and as such that development will be part of s3.

Just... maybe more like in s1 & 2, where it was always threaded through as well.

[gremlinsminion]

But that's just the thing! The question of why lestat participated is (to me) the Crux of season 1 and 2 and when answered in season 3 (and I'm sure they will touch upon this part again), what we see will be the make it or break it for the show lestat.

The answer will either satisfy the audience or manage to completely drive away all book fans and lose (some) fans and stay with...significantly less.

Here's the thing. This isn't about stans or fan favorites or ship wars.

This is the core theme of interview with a vampire. It's the one thing that bonds louis and lestat for the rest of the chronicles it's perhaps THE reason they end up together in the end. Because they both had a child together, they loved her and they both had to survive her death and they grieve her together after all these years.

That's what iwtv is supposed to be. If the answer to his participation is "well he could have stopped it at any time but he chose not to cause he was still kinda pissed they killed him, or he only cared about louis and then changed his mind and felt bad about claudia too then sorry that's not iwtv, the vampire lestat the VC chronicles. The heart of the chronicles was this grief.

And not everyone has to like lestat but if they want the show to continue its vital to actually keep the core of the character and even elevate them when possible like they did with louis! Lestat-claudia-louis is at the heart of it, as the family unit. There was love there and it ended tragically.

I just don't think some fans understand how important this topic will be for the overall life span of the show. It's important that the love and grief of two parents who failed their child but loved her is shown, so the story can move forward. Otherwise how does louis forgive lestat? Why doesn't he blame him? How will louis reconcile with himself and with lestat if he ends up with the man who willingly burned his daughter? Or was willing to see hee burned

How do we go from "rehearsed a play that burned your daughter alive" to "it's not on you?"

Sorry to unload all this on you, but I have a lot of thoughts on this and my friends have not watched the show so I've no one to talk this with but I'd very much appreciate if you chose to post this (but you ofc don't have to!)

good point about how most of the viewers want to see Lestat. As the central character of TVC, he can’t be vilified too much I suppose. And interesting thoughts about grief, I don’t think about it much, but I’ve heard that Anne Rice started this whole thing as a way to cope.

[untrustynickel]

hOJtel au ramble: something something oj can appear in tvs n other electronic stuff if he so Wants. somewhat easier to commuicate that way. i know test tube must be going Craaazy over this too, tt vc i knew i should have never read that house of leaves book.....

shes pacing back n forth and trying to figure out How is this possible From what shes heard OJ never acted like this Did the merge w/ the hotel screw with his mind Did the role he assigned himself to Finally consume him

and then lightbulb is secretly taking notes of some of the weird places because Wow these are good things to use when im in paintys class!

its so interesting wondering how some of the characters would react to this ... i know paper must be all sorts of stressed out

I think ab the idea of imagery of OJ manifesting around the the Hojtel a lot, it's very cool to me on some level it could be like it messes with Test Tube's devices (intentionally or not on OJ's part), or maybe a music player just starts blasting his favorite music sometimes too (I saw someone say he like elevator music along with the party music so, u just got some jazz or easy listening type stuff randomly echoing through the building) Lightbulb would try to make the best of the situation/try to keep activities going for the sake of everyone's sanity in all this, but she might even have her limits here, also might have a better grasp of the non-euclidean spaces/the Hojtel shifting paths than most the ppl trapped there

speaking of i should think ab how other characters are handling all of this situation (Both in and outside of the Hojtel)

[dollanganger-in-the-attic]

On the subject of the ghost writer... normally I'm the sort of person who likes to think that anyone should be allowed to write anything, as long as they put some care into what they're depicting if it's not their lived experience... but is it wrong that it creeps me out that this guy has spent almost 40 years writing stories about the abuse and suffering of girls and women while hiding behind the name of a dead woman?

Surely more people would get this ick from this if he was doing it under his own name and not pretending that all of this was planned by VCA in advance? (Also I get that she managed to write a lot in a short time, but I honestly don't believe that half of what he's written in her name was actually what she planned or wanted.) I don't know, I hate fact that most people don't know a lot of the VCA books are ghost written. My first introduction to VCA as a teen was the Orphan mini-series and I didn't find out that they were ghost written until the last book came out. And, compared to the prose in FitA the Orphan series is such trash. Sorry, I think I went on a wild tangent... I just get annoyed about the ghost writer...

Hey i love talking about this! So thanks for sending this ask, you and i are totally on the same page 🌸

I think to begin with, a man pretending to be disable woman in order to sell books at all is inappropriate. I mean didnt an author get in trouble for that recently? Like he purposefully chose a feminine/ambiguous penname and let people believe he was a woman in order to market his books better to women? Was is riley sager?

Oh look theres a whole article about this phenomena Why Men Pretend to be Woman to Sell Thrillers

But as you’ve said, YEAH it creeps me out the way he writes these books because unlike vca he seems to delight in the torment of these young female characters. His violence against them seems gratuitous and for shock value. There’s no empathy in it! And these are the MAIN characters whom the reader is meant to project onto. Like why do his books feel… dirty? Vca’s books felt melancholy and somber, you could tell she was writing from a place of understanding, fear and grief. Because her writing was REAL. The ghostwriter writes like he has a checklist he fills out called the “VC Andrews formula” lol

And i say this a lot but i feel the need to reiterate that i have no interest in attack this man’s character beyond his work, i dont know him or who he is outside of a writer. His family seems to love him and hes been with his wife a long time… though i will say in an interviewed they revealed he was a high school teacher and she was student at his school when they started dating 🥴 that gave me a bit or a surprise lol but it was a different time i guess

But on the topic of VCA’s unfinished books: that was all a lie. She never had any unfinished manuscripts lying around in which the ghostwriter finished. Even Garden of Shadows was entirely written by the GW. The publisher only pushed out that lie to make it easier to sell the knockoff books. And i DO like some of them, like the Landry and Cutler series. But VCA didnt have a hand in them at all. Most people still don’t know this because the publisher would prefer people just keep believing she had a closet full of 500 books they just keep pulling from lol

It bugs me too, i wish the publisher would be more honest, like at least stop putting “from the author of flowers in the attic” on ghostwritten books. Its deceptive and scummy. Thats why i try to spread the word, though i know i sound like a broken record. I just think this incredible woman, vca, deserved better.

[leliosinking]

Hot take I guess but the fandom was way too hard on this book (and still is tbh) and for what? Because it isn’t interested in fan service? If anything Anne’s writing was at its best when she ignored what fans wanted, and I think it’s time for a reevaluation of my boy Vittorio the Vampire.

I just think this was such a promising start to New Tales (more than Pandora, even) and I sort of hate all of you for boycotting it or telling new readers to skip it. (as far as i’m concerned TVA, Merrick, B&G, BF and BC are all unofficially New Tales anyway.. TVL-MtD are the only proper vampire chronicles, everything else falls into different categories, but I digress).

With regard to Vittorio, however, we were given a true blue Ricean vampire hunter novel (the only one mind you) with an actual, functioning plot and some of the best action she’s written since TVL… and you all shunned it. And I get it, we don’t read these books for conventional, commercial plot contrivances, but for the florid language and richly crafted characters; but this is the rare Anne Rice novel that’s just.. fun for the sake of fun?

And no, I’m not blind to its problems. It absolutely needed another draft or two (as do a lot of the later VC entires) and no, Vittorio is not her strongest protagonist by leagues. But what we got was still filled to the brim with good ideas?

The Court of the Ruby Grail cult, especially, is one my favorite of Anne’s inventions. Like their dynamic with the local human villages feeding them their castoffs was legitimately disturbing and IMO better executed than most of the times she retreaded the Children of Darkness post-TVL.

And while Vittorio the character might be kind of boring, Florian and Ursula carry this novel and deserved to enter the larger narrative tapestry on their strengths alone but “waaah Lestat and co. aren’t here” so “it’s bad” or whatever.. I really can’t stand some of y’all.

Anyway, this is long enough and I really didn’t set out to write an essay in defense of what is ultimately a mid-tier entry into this series. But. I still feel that much in the way that MtD and Blackwood Farm have been recently reassessed as good novels that happen to be bad VC entires I think it’s time for some of you to similarly reevaluate Vittorio the Vampire, because this is a good vampire novel, it just isn’t a good vampire chronicle (well I think it is and yet and yet and yet). But it’s still part of the series and it does fit into the larger picture despite what some will have you believe.

If this is your first time, I personally like to read VTV between Body Thief and Memnoch. I think it is better thematically situated there than between TVA and Merrick as initially published. The archangels that enter later in the story build nicely upon David’s vision of God and Satan in TTOTBT and make for a strong intermission full of angels and demons that assist in setting up the Dantean finale of MtD. (I have more suggested reading orders btw, some other time perhaps).

I dunno.. if you like this book please let me know lol like I could use the solidarity because I feel like I’m the only one (I have it ranked #6 out of 15). But yeah, I think Vittorio is probably the most underrated and most unfairly slandered entry in Anne’s entire catalogue if I’m being completely honest.

[desertfangs]

I feel for people just getting into the books lol. But I agree and I think it's fair to ignore Merrick since Anne also ended up disregarding it herself. I remember during the book tour for The Wolf Gift, Anne did an Q&A talk, she said she didn't consider Merrick, Blackwood Farm, or Blood Canticle canon by the time she began writing Prince Lestat.

Which I found confusing because she mentioned Quinn in Prince Lestat, but she felt that just because the character exists doesn't mean the events that unfolded are canon. Which I found more confusing. I also recall Anne saying (maybe in the same interview maybe in a different one?) she tried to merge her witches and vampires together, but she never felt like she managed to reach the right tone. Which I do agree with.

Oh anon!! I also feel for people just getting into the books! In some ways, it's probably nice to just binge the books back to back and not wait years wondering (like after MtD came out and it was like... Is Armand really dead?????? Where is Daniel???) but also a lot gets shifted or retconned and it must be jarring to go from one to the other with the discrepancies and changes so apparent.

For me, I feel like canon has always been sort of nebulous. Like you can just pick the things you like, you maybe explain away the things you don't (Armand was TOTES lying when he said he sold most of Night Island! 😒), and you can also just sort of ignore stuff if it doesn't really work for you. But that said, I also totally get the desire to be as true to canon as possible and trying to reconcile all of it the best you can, which is a total valid approach as well! I do think canon has a lot of little unexplored nuggets and things to unpack and try to figure out. It's like the crossword puzzle of book series which is part of why I think it has so much staying power for me personally. There's a lot left off the page to explore or explain or try to work out.

It's so interesting to hear she didn't consider Merrick or Blackwood Farm canon anymore!! I don't think I'd heard that, although I am not surprised about Blood Canticle, that book feels like a failed experiment and I agree it did not succeed as a VC/Mayfairs crossover. I think the Talamasca's existence and maybe Quinn was enough of a crossover, tbh, I don't know anything more was needed. (Granted, what I remember about BC is Lestat being in the midst of a manic episode and Rowan being involved, and that's pretty much it.) I do recall she was trying to build up to some war with the Talamasca and I guess that never really came together.

Prince Lestat definitely felt like more of a return to form and trying to get all of the vampires in one place and even wrap up some loose ends from previous books and tell us where everyone ended up. Well almost everyone. I agree it's funny Quinn gets a mention.

As for Merrick, I'm sure there's some interesting stuff in there, at least about Louis, but I've never been able to convince myself to reread it. I do like the implication that he and Armand came together after the events of that book and he moved in Trinity Gate because of shared trauma over suicide attempts, and that they found some healing with each other. But overall, it wasn't a book I enjoyed.

Thank you for sharing, anon!! This is really good stuff! Also LMAO thank you for reminding me The Wolf Gift exists. That book was a wild ride for sure! 💖

[exoticalmonde]

LUNDInium Outskirts /but it's her insane doodles/ PART IV

Me: *Casually watching my operators work on ZT-7 farming* Me: *Looks away for a second* Lessing: "Du kannst rennen, aber ich werde weiter jagen." Me:

I forgot I set all the Leithanien characters to German the day before...

--- Me: *In the base* Poz: "Doctor, if you insist on spending time together, how about we talk about your favourite books?" Me: *Pushes everything off my desk to clear space* "You just need to ask!"

--- There is no doodle for this one, but since it's HorseUncleTM merch, I wanted to show it off because the last part didn't actually feature what I was shown and how insane it looks knowing she has her entire desk COVERED with them.

---

How is RI-13 not broke yet living in holes, who knows...? Perhaps the rumours are correct and Dr. Lundi really dealing secretly with firearms on the black market of Sargon. ---

The event of Dr. Lundi half-crying on the bus back home because she couldn't stream to us BUYING the SKIN will be a core memory created based on eternal friendship. I will never be happier to wake up than I am when I see an 'Eve, can I be soggy again?' before being bombarded with Mlynar details and ramblings regardless of what I say.

There's a lot to unpack but I can't possibly ever talk about Mlynar the same way Lundi does in VC. She pulls up receipts proof of her words as well every time she mentions something.

--- We also have a new Pinkie sticker! Wahoo team!!!

Based on this --- Based on this post about our Arknights Yumeship's kid being bullied, I had a little spiral and was just thinking about different scenarios. Out of all the answers given, Kryo's is most direct and... very in character towards his sarkaz/draco child.

Lundi's also leaning towards physical aggression, instant retaliation for their little baba horse.

And then I just... imploded... (This was on the basis of the parents trying to justify their child's behaviour)

While Pinkie is not too interested on the aspect of children we've been trying to involve them more in the Yumeship questions just because their relationship with Swire/Chen is SO wholesome but they're shy to actually indulge. It's alright, we will always be there for the sugarbaby ultramind that is our friend.

You can see this conversation was very important to me.

Which is why this ART IS SO CUTE IM CRYING I LOVE THEM

---

Vigorously searched for the video, but basically, me and the Team were watching Unusual Memes from this one channel and one of them was of a guy who walked up to his neighbour/friend's home camera and said 'Well, you DON'T get to decide when to party, I want you around now.' And well... if that isn't Lundi pulling Dr. Eve out of bed during some of her emotional episodes.

In reference to this, Dr. Pinkie was upset Lundi wasn't just breaking down my door because she usually does that without asking. So some edits were applied and a part 2 has been added:

We all loved everything about this. Thank you Pinkie for always being some of the best designers and always editing things in the funniest way possible.

Me: "It looks like I'm getting kidnapped." Lundi: "Child napper."

... ... ... I JUST NOTICED THIS GIF WAS CREATED??!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'M GETTING TURNED INTO SOURDOUGH HELP ME --- Pinkie stealing Dr. Lundi's food.

--- God forbid I ever sneeze in call

--- And as some of the final doodles there's for this part, allow me a little TW about bugs because I am absolutely terrified of this thing and I am afraid that its arms are longer than mine so I can't even come into reach to kill it.

It's not my fault people make shelves so high up.

[monstersinthecosmos]

kacy i wanna know how much of a perv you think daniel is LOL so much fic centers on armand dragging him through an experience *armand* wants. so like what's the ratio of daniel being a freak in his nature (and knowing this about himself) vs armand nurturing this trait into him?

My friend, I’m so glad you asked.

THE THING IS IVE GIVEN THIS A LOT OF THOUGHT and in some ways it’s like, what all of my Devil’s Minion fics are about LOL. And yet! I don’t have a simple answer to this question, the way real questions of nature vs nurture are complicated in the real world in real people!

But let me sketch out a framework of the way I’ve questioned this, and everyone might come to different conclusions and that’s the fun of fandom, because there can exist several thousand versions of Daniel based on the same text! AND I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS STUFF, I HOPE IT DOESN’T COME OFF AS MANSPLAINING LMAO but I’m excited to talk about this topic. 

Here’s what we know unequivocally from the text:

Daniel is 20 years old in IWTV.

That’s it, that’s the whole list.

And here’s some fanon that people often try to extrapolate from the text: 

💦 That he met Louis at a gay bar. UNCONFIRMED, but I think it’s likely? In the short story the bar is named the Pink Baby, I think that might be a gay bar or a dick reference idk lol. 

💦 Whether or not the Pink Baby was a gay bar, he and Louis essentially cruised each other and left the bar together! Daniel has the excuse that he’s hunting for interviews for his job, Louis has the excuse that he’s an apex predator who preys on people, but ? Take this wherever you need to. (Also blah blah Ricean biting=sex symbolisms.)

💦 Was Daniel bisexual outside of the assumption that most of the VC characters are bisexual/omnisexual? The only clue we get is that when he and Armand practice voyeurism, he hooks up with men and women. There’s a lot of interesting information packed into the voyeurism paragraph, like this line: Yet he lay empty afterwards, staring at Armand, resentful, cold. and I’ve seen the “resentful, cold” comment dissected many times in fandom. Is it the general resentment of their whole relationship? Is it because he wants to fuck Armand and not randos? Is it because he only wants the Blood? Does he not consent to being used like a zoo animal? Is he gay and doesn’t want to fuck women? Is he straight (minus the orientation-defying vampire attraction) and doesn’t want to fuck men? I’ve seen all kinds of takes on this LOL. But still, no real definitive answer about his orientation in the text.

💦 What did the “roaming the bars of the world” comment mean? Sometimes I read Anne Rice’s language as being kinda lofty and exaggerated but was he ACTUALLY traveling the WHOLE WORLD or is he hyping up that he trolled bars in the Bay Area? Is he FROM the Bay Area or was it a stop in his travels? He worked for a radio station (not in the book, but mentioned in the short story + The Vampire Companion and The Alphabettery) so did he live here, even if he traveled a lot? Was he wealthy before vampires if he was traveling this much, if you think he was a traveler?

AND AFTER ALL THAT, here’s some extra questions where Daniel is FREE REAL ESTATE that every fan has the freedom to make the fuck up:

💦 How much sexual experience did he have at 20? Do we assume that by default as an Anne Rice character he probably had ample teenage sexual experiences, and if he did, is there a quality over quantity aspect to consider? Is the sex we have as teenagers like, all that to write home about LMAO. Do we really understand kinks yet, or do we need to grow up and gain some perspective first? 

💦 As an Anne Rice character, by default, do we assume he & everything else is sexually charged LOL, are the interviews and cruising and taking people home a code for bringing partners home? What percentage of his interviews were also hookups?  

💦 When we talk about nature vs nurture for kinkiness, how micro and macro is this? As a fellow Off the Cuffs fan I know you understand the “radioactive spider bite into kink” concept, and some kinks are so specific to our experiences. But BEING KINKY in itself IS nature, isn’t it? I’ve read some sex & kink theory that kink is (psychologically) more like an innate orientation. IE: in the way you can be straight or gay, some people are also by default turned on by being smacked or by whatever paraphilia. Whatever that thing is, the way it takes shape, is the nurture half. But like, many people can have the same experience and 99% of them don’t develop a paraphilia right? So I think that capability exists in kinky folks at all times, especially when so many of the radioactive spider bites are things that people discover in childhood. ANYWAY I RANTED but I say that to say; DANIEL MOLLOY IS A MONSTERFUCKER, IWTV IS THE PROOF THAT HE IS A MONSTERFUCKER. IT WAS THERE THE WHOLE TIME. 

So I bring up all those questions to encourage everyone to make up their own story with this, but I’ll tell you where I personally landed and how I approach it in my fics!!!

The Daniel in MY OWN fics is 20, single child, estranged from his parents, dropped out of college because he didn’t have ADHD support and was struggling, bisexual and promiscuous! I wonder if he went through that like college freshman thing where he got out of his parents house for the first time and partied a little too hard because he COULD! I like to read “bars of the world” as an exaggeration, I like to think he was a normal guy NOT globe hopping, sticking to the Bay Area, maybe he was out there for college, and guess what! There’s a thriving gay liberation culture there, so he finds some safe spaces to experiment with that! 

However, I think the text leaves space to think he didn’t have a lot of close friends, or wasn’t close with his family, due to the way that he simply ✨fucks off ✨ after IWTV. NOW, that’s just me! Because there’s potential here for a TRAGEDY of people looking for him or grieving him! But idk I just like thinking that he was already on the outs and the interview pushed him over the edge.

So I ask like, does the 20 year old have a ton of kink experience? Is he good at sex? WHAT DOES RESENTFUL, COLD MEAN? Was he celibate during the chase years? Are the voyeurism sessions the first time he’s had sex since his old life? Even if he had random hookups during the chase years, was this qualitatively good sex? Can you truly get into good BDSM on a hookup or do you need a trusted partner? (This is subjective, idk, but!) 

Also, how much kink is theoretical and private (to masturbate to) vs stuff you actually try? Especially if we believe that kink is nature, someone isn’t less kinky if they’re celibate, the way someone isn’t less gay if they’re celibate, or even a virgin. As Daniel becomes more and more obsessed with vampires, and with Armand, does it take over how he jerks off? Does he think about getting bitten? HE LIKES SNUGGLING WITH DEAD THINGS.

So like, there IS an element of Daniel being the unwilling witness of Armand’s rapidly shifting hyperfixations, and it’s natural that fandom pervs would extend that to sex acts and kinks. I LOVE IT, yes! It makes sense. 

But when you say like, which one of them is in charge, I wonder if it’s relevant if we assume Daniel enjoys it. (Does he? Would he? Resentful, cold?)

Here’s some points that come to mind when I imagine it as purely Armand’s doing:

💦 People sometimes misunderstand BDSM dynamics when it comes to power and control, because BDSM is a consensual fantasy between two adults. The sub is just as in control, because they allow it. In that sense: Do we believe Armand respects Daniel’s consent? Would he force Daniel to participate if he wasn’t enjoying himself? 

🩸 (How much can we compare this to Venice and how Armand was prepared for vampirism? I’m putting this in parentheses bc I’m putting a pin in this one, I CANNOT ADD A SUB-ESSAY INTO THIS POST ABOUT COMPARING VENICE TO DEVILS MINION but thinking of this too. Returning to the under-negotiated kink in Venice and how much is diegetic to the text, how does experiencing a spectrum of sexuality benefit someone’s last years alive ((sub-parentheses: does Armand flip-flop on turning Daniel as much as Marius did with Armand, does Armand subliminally know he’ll turn Daniel one day, does he go through these experiences as a precursor to turning Daniel eventually?)) are these experiences more for Armand to process the way he was groomed for asexual immortality vs being purely selfless and for Daniel’s benefit?)

💦 Armand uses Daniel as his usher into the modern age, and is it fair to assume he could sense Daniel’s kinkiness and knew that this was the person for him? 

💦 How dubious is Daniel’s consent here? How addicted to Armand’s Blood is he by the time they start fucking around? Is he already within the throes of Ricean Omnisexuality where he’s down for whatever? Does the Blood influence this as well? Is there a secret subliminal violence creeping into your body when you’ve been drinking it again and again? What about less violent kinks, like your feederism fic? Does the Blood encourage all types of excess and consumption??? 

But if DANIEL is the driving force here, I still must consider:

💦 He meets Armand and his life essentially ends when he’s 20 years old. Was he really self-aware of his kinks? Did he know himself very well sexually yet? 

💦 While exploring kinks can be mutually beneficial by sating Armand’s need for WEIRD HUMAN STUFF, maybe it IS something Daniel wants. It’s something he’s missing out on, because he checked out of regular human life when he was 20. Like, everyone’s different, so, I’m not saying that people can’t be sexually articulate at 20, but I know I fucking wasn’t! And I personally never fucked anyone that age who was good at it LMAO. So like how old would Daniel have been before he experimented enough to really know what he liked, and how much of him getting to know his sexuality involved Armand during the next decade?

💦 And this ties into Armand being his sugar daddy! That’s canon! Armand is his sugar daddy! If Daniel, at 28 years old, starts lamenting “I wish I’d gotten the chance to try watersports when I still had a normal life :( “ wouldn’t Armand have arranged that for him? 

🩸 (Again let’s talk about Venice and what did Armand learn there about being the vampire lover, how much does he process and repeat on Daniel, and for whose benefit?)

💦 If Daniel is an innately kinky person, and realizes as he’s approaching 30 that he never really got to explore it properly, wouldn’t Armand usher him through that experience? Even if Armand didn’t plan to turn him, I wonder if he saw the window of Daniel’s mortal experience closing, maybe he worried that this is the type of thing people need to be wild about while they’re still so young. And outside of stigmatizing Daniel's age, it's also about how he was becoming less and less healthy, dying of alcoholism at 32, so there was a small window here for them to have sex adventures.

So basically, I’m saying that the nature half feels very much like Daniel being a monsterfucker, the nurture half is the actual experiences he got to have. And I don’t think he’d be in this situation in the first place if he wasn’t a bit of a monsterfucker, and wasn't a innately into danger and pain. Like, we don’t get a TON of examples but Gretchen and Babette didn’t try to fuck vampires! We know that vampires give humans the heebie jeebies! What kind of sick fuck is into that?!?!?!? 

I don’t really have one single answer here. When it comes to the large library of kinks I think either of them can be blamed, and I also think it 100% makes sense to use Armand as a vehicle to write fic about them as if they’re another collection of human oddities for him to explore. But even using Armand’s weird bullshit to process that doesn’t mean it’s not mutually beneficial, and I think it gets into a fuzzier area that’s up to the writer when it comes to their take on the relationship, how dubious the consent is, how much do they actually like each other and get along? Can it be mutually beneficial in the end even if one person is driving? (see: the conversation about the second whipping scene in TVA and how it works out in the end.) Is it something they have fun agreeing to and negotiating in advance? 

I can totally see how someone might write this as a fun thing that they talk about beforehand as easily as it could be Armand forcing mystery adventure on Daniel and suddenly he’s tied up in some shitty apartment in Hells Kitchen with some man pissing on him, and did he ever even reveal this kink to Armand or did Armand pull it out of his head? 

The ship dynamic is so fucked up and coercive and resentful and toxic, even though there is real love here, so there’s this whole spectrum to use when you build your fanworks and headcanons!!!!!!! AND LIKE

IF IT’S COERCIVE AND FUCKED UP, DOES IT DRIVE THEM FURTHER APART OR BRING THEM CLOSER TOGETHER? IS DANIEL RESENTFUL AND COLD AND DOES THIS CAUSE FIGHTS? IS THIS A WAY FOR THEM TO PROCESS SOME OF THEIR COLDNESS AND RESENTMENT BECAUSE THEY AREN’T GOOD COMMUNICATORS? DO THEY DO BETTER AFTER THESE SESSIONS AND FEEL CLOSER BECAUSE THEY BROKE THROUGH SOMETHING NEITHER OF THEM KNEW HOW TO SAY?

Gosh idk.

Anyway I apologized in the beginning for mansplaining but I also want to apologize for this non answer LMFAO. I hope it doesn’t feel like a cop-out to not have a real answer, it’s just that I think there is such a rich context with a MENAGERIE of possibility !!!!!!! 

[licncourt]

I'm so done with fans comparing loustat to hannigram! make them stop :( there is no similarity at all??! loustat is way more complex and nuanced than the dark acadamia moodboard that is hannibal!!! much more interesting too imo. Why does this keep happening?

Okay, to be upfront I have very little first hand knowledge of Hannibal, mostly osmosis + a few episodes that I watched. I did make a post quite a while ago that mentioned Hannigram vs Loustat, but the frustration wasn’t so much that I think Hannibal/Hannigram is bad in any way and more that people were completely erasing how cool it is that the first full on Loustat kiss and love confession was already in the books in the 80s! They were making out before the Berlin Wall fell and it was bothering me that people were kind of erasing how trailblazing that was for gay media. For all its many faults, credit where credit is due to VC! The AMC show did not create an explicit romance, it was already there AND Hannibal was inspired by IWTV in the first place.

From what I’m aware of though, there are a lot of key differences between book Loustat and Hannigram (though I do think it’s funny that IWTV inspired Hannibal and then the creators of the AMC show were clearly inspired by Hannibal). The dynamics are just set up differently and the characters themselves are in no way comparable I don’t think. My feeling is really that it’s kind of reductive to act like they’re analogous just because there was inspiration and they’re both dark romances where they kill people. I think we can go beyond that and find more to discuss and more intertexuality from other sources, but it’s very Tumblr to take surface level similarities in a piece of media and lump everything together so…

[loelett]

sorry if this seems random but a little rant in response to what u reblogged about the new tv show.

TBH IT MAKES ME SO MAD THAT THEY ADDED *FORCED* RACISM (and by that I mean Louis taking lestat calling him his fledgling as "slave" like stop thats not what vc is about at ALL?????) AND HAD TO MAKE ANTOINE INTO ANTOINETTE TO SHOW HES BI 💀 I feel like the writers missed a lot of important points about the book and WHY Louis stuck with Lestat and was infatuated with him but hated him at the same time. they really changed character dynamics in it tbh. dont get me wrong, its a decent show, but I just can't see it as the same Louis and Lestat compared to the 1994 movie which I think did a good job in recreating what Anne wrote.

anyway hi 😍🥰😇...

I'm not really sure what forced racism means in the context of the iwtv show ngl. I mean I've really only seen the show through one and a half times but I do know that even Louis himself in the books labels himself as a slave to Lestat's whim (Claudia does as well; she also calls him a slave to Armand) (Lestat also does this in respects to Himself so even he agrees hrejgh) so even in the context of the books I don't really think it's forced or ooc for this connection to be made. Obviously the intention is different considering Louis' blackness in the show, but since this is a theme the show goes with (meaning the racism that Louis experiences in his time period) I don't really have a problem with that wording. I'm not black myself so this is just my opinion by the way, but I've always been pretty interested in the way they decided to change show Louis' race and backstory. It's probably the most interesting change they made imo.

Um yeah the Antoinette thing still sucks, I really don't know why they decided to go with that ?? Idk i always forget abt her so I guess I'm a hater. Agree 👍. We never needed to prove Lestat was bi esp in the first book so wharever? go off showrunners i Guess?? idk bout all that

Loustat's dynamic is completely different in the show and it's one I've rlly never been interested in. I know a lot of people enjoy it and I don't wanna take away from that, so no hate there idk do what you love. I'm just not an enjoyer of the abuser/abusee thing they kinda have going on. Um and the cheating stuff it's all just really exhausting to me. I just really like Louis' reaction to Lestat's actions in the book ! They aren't canon BECAUSE Lestat is abusive and controlling and manipulative and they don't even kiss until book 2, let alone express emotional/physical affection. Show Louis goes back to Lestat even after everything that goes on in ep 5 and. As a self proclaimed Louis self insert I just can't ever see him doing that in the books, at least not with Claudia still in the picture. IDK!

I'm really not a hater of the show, and I want all the Louis fans out there to really think about the way they react to the changes in his character from book to show. There are personality changes that I don't agree with either, but this is a different story and the original one has already been told. I don't have to like the show to respect it and its fans, and the whole pick a side thing between book and show is exhausting to me :/ there r things I like and things i don't like about both versions !

Sorry I know this goes really off topic HGFSHg.. love love

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hello! Interested in your encyclopaedic knowledge on this. Skim-rereading the VC now for first time since I was a teenager and have to ask - does Louis ever, like - do anything for Lestat? This prompted particularly by TOTBT which my god is so savage. I can’t believe he’s happy to just… let him die?!? He doesn’t lift a finger, he doesn’t even try to protect him? It’s IWTV all over again, only supposedly their relationship is much better by this point.

It got me looking for examples where Louis does anything whatsoever proactive for Lestat and I’m really struggling. At the end of QotD, it seems like lots of the other vamps are trying to look after traumatised Lestat a bit, but I don’t think Louis comes to him? He just wanders off to New Orleans? Maybe I’ve missed a bit though. He looks after him a bit in his coma? Although not moreso than anyone else. But in the end it is Lestat who ends up waking up to save Louis. Even that bit in PLaTRoA where Lestat is about to have his heart stopped - Louis sitting next to his coffin - but Lestat reaches out to take Louis’ hand, not the other way round. Aside from verbally saying that he loves him, other than being generally nice and calm and polite, does Louis ever do anything to show it?

Hey nonny!

(Not sure about the encyclopedic but I‘ll try 😅💕) I do see a lot of the mentioned events a bit differently, allow me to explain (this is gonna be long^^):

Soooo to address your mention of TtotBT first off, I personally do think Louis thought of Lestat first and foremost when he sent him away in that scene.

Louis was tempted. It's no surprise imho that Jacob really wants to do that scene with Sam, because the power dynamics are inverted of course, but it is also emotionally very raw.

I want to pause here and recall a quote from QotD here, which is important:

Louis, the watcher, the patient one, was there on account of love pure and simple. The two had found each other only last night, and theirs had been an extraordinary reunion. Louis would go where Lestat led him. Louis would perish if Lestat perished. But their fears and hopes for this night were heartbreakingly human.

Louis... would perish if Lestat perished.

For Louis to send Lestat away... is to resign himself to death also. I think that has to be taken into account for the scene you mentioned, where Louis decides that Lestat deserves to save his soul, before Louis himself deserves to save his own. His rejection of Lestat there is done in full knowledge that he condemns himself there to a very lonely, cold, and ultimately fatal existence. He rejects Lestat there, knowing he will lose his greatest love.

I wouldn't call that happy to let him die? And I, personally, don't see it as a parallel to IWTV either, though it might feel a bit like that for Lestat, but the Louis here knows how much this will hurt. He knows what he is doing. He is condemning himself, hoping it will free Lestat.

And, while we're on TtotBT, in the beginning of the book there is the mention of Louis coming by Lestat's, to 'Netflix & chill', to share space and spend time, watch movies (for example "Company of the wolves", just being there. Talk. Discuss. Being together. So Louis did come by, for Lestat. And Lestat visited Louis, in his shack, had his own chair there. They were in each other's lives.

And... in the end of that book - when David show's up? What does Louis do? He takes David in. Makes room for David in their old home in Rue Royale. Accepts David - for Lestat. Accompanies them, too. Honestly, given David is David... that is a HUGE sacrifice! He let's David, the new fledgling, into their home. Because he is Lestat's. Later on, in PL, he will do the same for Antoine, which is obviously something that had to grate quite a lot as well, and I have always seen that as a rather conscious decision to allow it. To allow Antoine into their lives, because he is Lestat's.

Louis also tries to protect Lestat before the concert.

I know a lot of people read that from Lestat's POV and are just happy with the reunion (and of course it is beautiful and I really want to see it on the show!!) but... it's not only that.

Louis comes, to Lestat, not only because he can do so. But he pleads for Lestat to stay safe, too, to not do the concert. Because he is afraid for Lestat. He wants to keep him safe, wants to keep him with himself, too. He pleads with him not to go on stage. Offers to talk, to make plans, to 'Let us have each other in this century the way we never did in the past'.

You mentioned the end of QotD, and... in their universe, all that happens right after this reunion. A few days, a week at most. And then Lestat hides himself away again, in a room, trying to cope. Because he has been used again, abused, too, in a way he himself can only cope with by reframing it as love.

Louis knows it isn't. Wasn't. And he knows that he and Lestat cannot talk freely with the others there. He and Lestat are not able to use the mind gift directly. And... he is deeply unsettled by Jesse's report, the report she gives Lestat. Claudia's ghost. Deeply, deeply personal and something they share, very painfully. They go by Louis' tombstone, and then they can talk. A bit. Louis trusts Lestat and in his new powers. Falls asleep in his arms.

And that... is a rather powerful statement.

Louis (admittedly begrudgingly) enters that "adventure" with Lestat, fully trusting in Lestat. Kissing, embracing. Sleeping in his arms. It's a statement.

A statement that, despite Lestat feeling changed, and alien, that Louis still trusts him. Trusts in him, too.

And it is Louis, who tries to take Lestat home in Memnoch, Louis who pleads, begs for Lestat to be released. Louis who cries out when Lestat is locked up. Louis is the one who saves the books, Louis is the one who tries to comfort Lestat. Louis is the one who holds the proverbial fort at Rue Royale, with David, for long, long years. Louis is the one who despairs, eventually, when Lestat goes back into that half-awake coma, his soul taken away by angels.

Though there is more to that, too. You say Louis did not look after Lestat more than others, and I'd beg to differ. Louis was the one in the chapel, guarding Lestat. Holding his ground with the ancients, and the riff raff that Armand hunted down (even once with Lestat later). Louis is the one who keeps Ruy Royale, and makes sure Lestat is kept clean during his episodes of stillness, and it is only when he breaks, eventually, when Merrick takes his focus... that that... stops. When the Merrick events start, David visits Lestat, and Louis is 'there, seated on the marble beside Lestat, reading in a hushed voice from an old book of English poetry'.

Louis never leaves Lestat's side for long. Armand notes how he seems emaciated, hungry when Armand comes by in his version of the tale.

It is only when Merrick's spell unfolds that Louis leaves Lestat's side, that his focus shifts. And with the shift to Claudia and her ghost... the despair takes hold.

And it is when Louis heartbeat stops - that the "angels" lose their blackmailing material.

Lestat later tells of how he was forced to do "their bidding" by them threatening to take the eye... and though he doesn't elaborate... it is very clear what that means wrt Louis.

Because there simply was nothing else they could threaten him with anymore. Nothing else was more important than Louis. Not his eye, not his soul.

This always sends a shiver down my spine.

But that just as a note.

Louis is the one who accepts Lestat's judgment, after Merrick's creation.

He also accepts Lestat abandoning New Orleans, eventually, because Lestat cannot stand it anymore to kill the riff raff, those who "offend Armand", something Lestat calls "autocratic, ruthless" wrt to Armand's killing of them.

Louis accepts Lestat's decision there, and goes to Armand. Something that Lestat in turn accepts and supports(!):

My beloved Louis de Pointe du Lac left soon after, and from that time on lived in New York with Armand. Armand keeps the island of Manhattan safe for them—Louis, Armand, and two young blood drinkers, Benjamin and Sybelle, and whoever else joins them in their palatial digs on the Upper East Side.

And when Lestat is finally ready, it is Louis who apologizes to Lestat for the "past" by hunting a woman who wanted to murder her husband - in front of Lestat.

Personally, I find that a very poignant "doing-it-for-someone" :)))

But there is more.

Louis is the one who rescues Rose! Rose, Lestat's charge. Louis knows about Rose. Lestat's lawyers know about Louis. Louis takes over when Lestat is unreachable.

There is so much in these simple facts!

Like, they must have talked about Rose. Louis knows about Rose, knows she is important to Lestat, he takes the responsibility, saves her from fire, kills the ones who harmed her. Brings her to him. And he is the one Lestat's lawyers reach out to when Lestat is gone? Unreachable? What a statement is that in and by itself?! Louis is the one Lestat trusts with that child, the girl he saved and who will become his immortal daughter. Their immortal daughter.

And then, when Rhosh is there in NYC, at that table, and the axe scene happens... what does Louis do?

He smiles.

Now I don't know if you know that scene well, but it is quite the scene, and I honestly cannot wait to see it on the show.

And Louis... smiles. Shows support.

Quiet. Steadfast. The support Lestat needs, probably more than he consciously realizes.

And then, of course, later on - knowing what "Lestat cannot confide". They are finally sharing blood again, and Louis becomes Lestat's confidant. To all the things Lestat cannot speak about, all the things he has hinted at but cannot put into words. All the things that are too heavy to address.

That is no trifle.

And the silver cord, where Louis pushes the matter against Lestat's (not) better judgement. Where Louis is there, for Lestat to reach out.

Your ask made it seem (a bit) as if being there and offering is not sufficient, but strength shows itself in very different ways. Lestat is more direct, "flashy". Louis' strength is more subtle, it is an offer for support, unwavering support, whenever Lestat wants it. For as long as Lestat wants it. Not taking agency from Lestat, which is like the worst thing that could happen again... because that is something that has been taken from Lestat again, and again, and again. And Louis knows that.

And so he doesn't.

He doesn't take. He offers. It shows he knows Lestat. And he accepts him, and their respective pasts, and all the shit that has happened.

Again, that is no trifle, imho.

There is more. Little mentions, in the books.

A "grotto" they once shared. For example. Louis wearing the clothes Lestat chooses.

But for the most part you have to "read between the lines" as Lestat says, for the juicy details - however, I think when you consider the arcs? The arcs that span all the books?

The things we are told actually speak for themselves, imho.

Louis does a lot of things for Lestat. The important things, actually.

He is there for Lestat to turn to when Lestat's strength fails.

And yes, that includes the rejection in TtotBT - because Louis thought he had to be the one to show the strength for Lestat - to hold fast to the initial belief. The initial hope that drove the body switch - because Lestat had just found out he could not die anymore. Even if he tried. And he had tried. And it had sent him spiraling.

Would Louis have held out indefinitely? Probably not :) But that's another discussion.