#i really do think that dick and jason have a different kind of complicated with bruce than the other robins do

[logicallyblind]

bruce and jason’s relationship dynamic is so, so important to me while simultaneously makes me want to tear out my hair with my bare hands and scream into a pillow oh my god-

[ao3-top-batfam-ships-bracket]

My problem with Bat/ Bat ships isn't that they exist, it's how many people like them.

Wait! Hear me out. I swear I have a reason.

I'm good at ignoring ships that squick me, so I do. I also want to make it very clear I am not I am not hating on individuums who ship Bat/ Bat.

But to me, how much people ship them is kind of indicative of how little we value adopted children in our society. People say they aren't "really related" so it's fine.

Because you just don't see that level of engagement with ships involving biologically related family.

And it's that attitude shining through more than the shipping itself I dislike.

"Fiction isn't reality" no, it isn't, write the darkest thing you want. Explore fucked up concepts. That doesn't make you a bad person. It's completely normal.

However oftentimes Fiction is often still a reflection of reality. From reading, we can learn about our society (or other societies, if we venture beyond our own culture.) It says something, whether the author meant for it to mean something or not.

We understand where you're coming from and agree that adopted children/siblings are real family and shouldn't be valued less. We also agree that fiction mirrors reality which mirrors fiction, although that process is much more complex than many people claim.

However, 1) not every family is your typical nuclear family. Everybody defines their family and their relationships with its members in their own way. Some people call all adults that are close to them uncles and aunts, regardless of any actual biological connection. Someone could have been raised by their biological parents, but don't claim them as parents because of personal reasons and even view other adults who filled the parental roles better as their actual parents. Someone could have a biological sibling that is much older than them, grow up without them in their life and due to that think of them as more of a cool friend than a sibling. (All examples are taken from our own personal experiences.)

It's especially apparent in cases of found family, which batfamily certainly is. Tim and Jason haven't met until Jason was 18 and Tim was 16. Both were adopted by the same man, but they didn't know each other. Does that automatically makes them brothers? Even though without the adoption papers they would be total strangers? If Jason's death invalidated the adoption papers does it mean he and Bruce stopped thinking of each other as parent and child? Bruce and Dick have an age difference between 10 to 20 years and viewed each other more as brothers, partners and mentor/mentee at first. Bruce and Tim for a long time also thought of each other as mentor/mentee, especially since Tim still had a living father. That was also the case of Dick and Damian. Tim had a crush on Cass in the comics at the beginning of their friendship. Jason and Dick were technically brothers before Jason's death, but they weren't close at all and only met a few times. Barbara is a mother/sister figure to Cass even when she was dating Cass' adopted brother Dick. We don't think Jason and Cass even met once in post-crisis comics, despite technically being siblings. (Sorry we're only mentioning that one era, we aren't as knowledgeable about new52 and rebirth.)

The recent push to make the batfamily a nuclear family in our opinion does a huge disservice to the characters and their interesting and complicated relationships that can't fit neatly into boxes labeled "sibling" or "parent".

2) some people think of batfamily as a family AND still ship them at the same time. Yes, some claim they aren't "really related", but there's another side that absolutely views them as related and wants to explore what happens when two brothers or a father and son fall in love.

3) there's actually a pretty big engagement with ships involving biologically related family. Wincest (ship between biological brothers Sam and Dean from Supernatural) is the 15th most popular ship on AO3 of all time. We still remember how prominent the fandom discourse about shipping the Weasley twins from Harry Potter was. In almost every fandom, there're at least a few incest ships. Are they more popular than adopted sibling incest ships? We don't know, but if anyone wants to measure it in some way, we'd love to find out.

Edit: 4) as people have rightfully pointed out in the comments and reblogs, a lot of fics are AUs where one or both characters weren't even adopted and met in different circumstances. You can see that in a lot of fandoms, people will imagine close friends or even strangers as biological family and vice versa: write biological or adopted family as just friends or even strangers.

We're looking forward to hearing what other people think about this topic!

[distort-opia]

Could you maybe explain to me what exactly Jason's problem with Bruce was/is when he came back?

Maybe I'm being stupid but I don't know. Like, I know there's this space between Jason's resurrection and Talia finding him... and Jason returing for a sec to kill Bruce, then changing his mind, and went back to Talia to plan The Ultimatum and travel the world a bit.

I went off the assumption that Jason thought Bruce didn't care enough for him to kill the Joker and then the whole stupid thing with the batarang to the neck after everyone thought Dick died.

But, like, Jason kind of destroyed his relationship with the batfam himself with the whole coming out of nowhere and trying to hurt/traumatize/kill them. I don't mean to hate on Jason specifically, I just don't get him on a fundamental level.

Would really appreciate if somebody could clear that up, I'm kind of desperate. Like I have most of the facts but it seems like a jigzaw puzzle with too many pieces and I can't make sense of it.

To be honest, I don't understand your confusion fully? You pretty much explained it yourself, why Jason was angry at Bruce after he came back. Even Judd Winick, the writer of Under the Red Hood, says it very concisely (in this interview):

When it comes to Jason's relationships with the Batfam, I'll once again let Winick explain his vision (transcription of a podcast episode to be found here):

You say that Jason harmed his relationship with the Batfam himself as if Jason's intention had been to have good relationships with them. At the times he went after Tim or Dick or Damian, I don't think he cared much about that, hah. Most of his choices at the time could be boiled down to "What would piss off Bruce the most, either directly or by proxy?"... and also, "What would get Bruce's attention the most?". Because that's what made it complicated, right. Jason wouldn't have gone to these extremes if he didn't care about Bruce.

As to things not making sense... you're not being stupid, I'm sorry to say that at least to me, it's impossible to reconcile all of Jason's actions within a coherent character. Just because he was written by different people in different continuities with very different goals (though maybe more accurately, by some writers lacking a goal, as in not really knowing what to do with him). This is true for most comic book characters, not just Jason; true consistency is a pipe dream when the history of a character spans decades. Keeping that in mind, my personal approach is forming an idea of the original core traits of a character (which is why I gave examples of what Winick himself said), and then filtering their subsequent portrayals through that. Some comics will be horribly OOC despite them technically being canon and you simply have to go the "I recognize that the Council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision I've elected to ignore it" route. Then there's, of course, your personal preferences; you can choose what is canon to you because you like it, and form your idea of a character around those instances-- though here I'd always warn to never stop being aware that it's your idea of the character. There is no absolute truth, and we're all playing in a sandbox. Other people will choose other instances of canon, or try to reconcile all of them somehow, and your ideas might not jive. That's perfectly fine.

That being said, while I do like Jason a lot, he isn't my full-time blorbo, so I'm sure other Jason scholars could respond to this much better than I did! If anyone wants to add more in-depth answers, please do.

[sasheneskywalker]

brudick fic recs

a bird in the hand by wingdingery The first time Clark meets Robin, he’s completely confused about why Batman (Mr. I am vengeance, I am the night, and I work alone) would choose to have a hyperactive neon-colored ten-year-old as his partner in vigilanteism.

Over the next twenty years, he comes to understand clearly what makes Nightwing so special—though the relationship between Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne never gets any less complicated over time.

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson & Clark Kent, Dick Grayson & Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent & Bruce Wayne

a painting you could never frame by wingdingery Batman gets hit by a curse that can only be broken by his soulmate. Fortunately, that’s easy enough for Dick to fix.

The only problem is, no one else knows that he’s Bruce’s soulmate—not even Bruce himself.

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

the courage of stars by wingdingery Dick's time at Spyral ends with the Somnus satellite getting activated – and all memories of Richard John Grayson ever existing wiped from the world. After Dick realizes that trying to get anyone to remember him only causes them pain, he decides that the best thing to do is say goodbye to Gotham and leave his old life behind entirely.

The only problem is, his old life can’t seem to let him go.

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson & Everyone

love is a river by wingdingery Realizing that he’s in the future is unsettling enough for Bruce; realizing that everyone in the future is trying to keep something a secret from him is even worse.

But realizing exactly what that secret is turns out to be the worst of all.

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

mutually assured by wingdingery Dick’s mom always told him that kissing a wound would help it heal faster.

Somehow, Dick’s not sure that’s ever really worked for him and Bruce.

E | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

when all the walls come down by wormsin This isn't the first time one of them has been dying in the other's arms. But it might be the last. As far as deathbed confessions goes, Dick thinks his is pretty good.

“Once upon a time, there was a kingdom without a King or Queen…”

-

Or: It takes a building falling on their heads for Dick to tell Bruce how he really feels.

E | Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

One-Way Glass by wormsin Dick Grayson—husband, father, hero—is de-aged to his early days as Robin.

There are lots of different ways to look at the past. Sometimes, it's hard to know what really happened.

E | Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings, Underage | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

Hit me with your sweet love, steal me with a kiss by ful_crum After Jason’s death, Dick spends more time back at the manor. There are many opportunities for sparring between Bruce and Dick, but it’s only a matter of time until sparring turns into fighting.

Or, what happens when you fistfight your former mentor that you kind of hate and kind of love?

M | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

Compromising Positions by ful_crum Bruce and Dick keep getting caught in compromising positions. It’s all just circumstantial though, of course. Dick keeps insisting they aren’t fucking, so they must not be.

Right?

OR, five times someone walks into Bruce and Dick in compromising yet innocent positions, and the one time they’re actually fucking.

(BruDick Week 2024 — Day 6: Caught in the Act)

E | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

Fledgling by quickmanifyouloveme "But are you in love with me?"

"I can't let you leave."

Bruce Wayne has died. Tim asks Dick why he doesn't want to help get their father back. Dick is tired of lying about the two years before he left to become Nightwing.

E | Rape/Non-Con, Underage | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake & Dick Grayson

Down the Line by Averia It's just Bruce being Bruce, Clark says. Lois Lane begs to differ.

M | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent/Lois Lane

Your fortress face belied your fort of lace by treacherous And does any of this lame introspection even matter now when his dick is chubbing up and Bruce is looking at him the same as when he’d brought flavored lube to bed and they didn’t come up for air until the next morning?

(or, Bruce and Dick inevitably come together, inevitably fall apart, and tonight, Dick is weighing the ethics of asking your ex exactly why he broke up with you while he’s dosed with truth serum)

E | Underage | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

Happy Acres by Kyele When a seemingly-rehabilitated Dr. Quinzel opens an upscale retreat for couples in crisis, Batman needs to investigate. An undercover mission as Bruce Wayne and partner should do the trick. Unfortunately, his first choice for the mission is unavailable. As is his second. And his third. And -

“What’s more important?” Dick challenges. “Your considerations - or the lives of the people who may be endangered by a delay in getting the truth about Happy Acres?”

Bruce opens his mouth, and then closes it again. He knows the answer to that. He believes the answer to that. He just - he can’t even form the thought. Logically he knows what Dick is suggesting, but it won’t even compute. He has spent too long preventing his mind from ever considering Dick and romance at the same time.

Dick, who doesn’t have Bruce’s feelings, also doesn’t have Bruce’s difficulties. “That’s what I thought,” he says. Despite his victory, he somehow sounds weary. “So get over yourself, and hand me the damn pocket square. I’m your date tonight, and you’d better start getting used to it.”

E | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

Casino Royale by spaceisgay (ChancellorGriffin) Boravia’s grand casino, once a hotbed of European crime, has reopened with a high-stakes poker tournament Bruce Wayne suspects may be the work of Roulette. In a country where superheroes are banned, the only way to foil a criminal conspiracy is to enter the tournament as himself, and play his way up to the top.

But not just any card-playing billionaire can get his name on the list. The real price of admission is a lot higher than the two million dollar buy-in. You also need a secret to offer up as your stake. A dirty one. The kind a man like Bruce Wayne would pay dearly to keep quiet.

Enter Dick Grayson.

Though he agrees to accompany Bruce to the tournament in the guise of his illicit lover, to help him fake a blackmail-worthy secret besides the one with masks and capes, Dick's not wild about spending so much time with his old friend in flirtatious playboy mode; but somehow it's harder than expected to watch Bruce direct that legendary charisma at other people, and Dick doesn't quite know why. Over the course of four days, what began as a straightforward undercover job devolves into a messy emotional tangle which forces both men to confront truths they’ve kept hidden for years . . . even from themselves.

E | No Archive Warnings Apply | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

You are forever in my mind by orphan_account This started off as a simple idea: Bruce installs a new set of cameras in the manor; cameras he doesn't tell anyone about. One night, he accidentally sees something that fundamentally affects him - and the way he looks at Dick.

E | Underage | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne

[raepritewrites]

I literally woke up in the middle night because I needed to rant about this okay there are so many things that I love about the Bruce Timm Batman Universe and so many things that I hate with a passion

because without the Bruce Timm Batman Universe we would not have Batman Beyond which is one of my favorite series; it is deeply flawed but I kind of love it's flaws, most of them anyway, but the thing is right? at some point some executive said to the writing staff "hey no you can't have dead Jason Todd in your show" and like okay fair - children show can't depict dead children that's fair - but then years later the writing team was like "Hey what if we did something worse than kill a kid what if... What if we f****** Take a kid Have the Joker kidnap him Torture him Brainwash him And then have him kill the Joker Only not really And then He's still screwed by the end... Would that be better?" And it's like no! no it would not! What is wrong with you?! But that's what they did A full seven years before under the Red Hood was Published and Jason Todd was officially resurrected they were like "you know what? we're not going to have a dead Robin we're going to have something worse" and again it is arguably the worst thing about Batman Beyond and the Bruce Timm Universe - Do I love the idea of Terry McGinnis fighting the Joker? Yes of course I do! it's brilliant! I love it because Terry is such a different Batman than Bruce Timm's original Bruce Wayne. Long long before Grant Morris Had his run of the comics with Dick Grayson as Batman We got a Batman who told jokes and made quips! And was hilarious! And also badass! And then we got to see him kick the Joker's ass! and I love that! But God I hate that it had to come at the expense of poor Tim Drake - and sometimes I think that the writers maybe have always hated Tim Drake? and I don't know why and I can't prove it but that's my theory.. if I'm being honest here what I believe happened, and I don't feel like looking this up but I'm sure someone could, I feel like the writers wanted to bring back the Joker but they were like "we can't do that he's got to be dead by now" and they were like "all right how do we get him into the future" and then someone was like "hey why is it that Bruce is all alone in the future like not even dick is around?" and someone else was like "oh! oh what if? what if they're not around because something happened in the family to the last robin?" and they were like "wait we can't write a story where Robin dies that's Jason Todd's story and we were specifically told don't do that" and they were like "just hear me out - let's make it worse"

Tldr: I have complicated feelings about "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" and its 3am

[alfredsolos]

I'm going to get so much hate for this, but I have to say this.

Through my observation of the Batfamily, I believe that Dick's favorite brother is, in fact, not Damian. It's Tim.

Look, Damian is my favorite member of the Batfamily. But while reading his interactions with Dick, you notice that it's a whole lot different than what's portrayed in fanon.

I'm not saying that Dick doesn't like Damian. Because he definitely loves all of his siblings. But him and Damian have a different type of relationship than what Tim had with him.

For example, we occasionally see him compliment and show affection to Tim.

He does the same for Damian too, of course. But not as much as he does with Tim.

Dick likes teaming up with Tim. He even asks for it. But with Damian, it's all about 'keep him safe, ignore the mean comments, send him home.'

And stressing this again, this doesn't mean that he hates Damian.

And then there is this mutual acceptence in the fanon that Dick sees Damian as his son. Now this can be cute and fluffy to read but it's not true.

Dick does't think that he is ready for that kind of responsibility. Which is totally valid.

Now what about Damian? Who is his favorite sibling.

Well, I do think that Dick is his favorite member on the family. But in a different way.

Damian knew Dick more than he knew Bruce. So to him, Dick is someone of authority. He was his Batman after all.

In my opinion, Damian struggles to think of Dick as a brother due to him being so much older and with the fact that he was his guardian. So not a father, but not a brother either.

It sounds complicated, I know. But that's exactly how Damian feels too.

That's why I think Damian's favorite sibling is either Tim or Stephanie. Because they had more interaction with each other compared to rest his siblings.

Since Dick lived in Bludhaven, and with Jason and him trying to kill each other. They probably have a good relationship.

Yes they bicker, fight and insult each other all the time. But it doesn't change the fact that they love each other.

Also, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), Tim is the only one who ever called Damian 'baby brother'.

Does that sound familiar? I ocassionally see fics in which Cass calls him that. But the truth is, they don't really know or like each other.

Stephanie on the other hand, really seems to like Damian.

And of course there is Duke. He, just like Steph, is actually cool with Damian.

Anyways... this turned out way longer than I wanted it to be.

Also if you agree or disagree with my observation, don't be scared to post your ideas on this matter. I really am curious about what the rest of you think.

[sanguineterrain]

Is Dick Grayson actually a playboy? I’ve always been a Jason girl but I’m getting into Dick. There’s some debate about his playboy ways being fanon or canon like here

https://www.tumblr.com/robxstar/632261873330421760/is-richard-grayson-actually-a?source=share

Post link

I think playboy Dick is a great example of how complicated comic "canon" can get because you get so many different people interpreting and writing the same character so as readers we often have to be selective about the kind of character we personally shape them into.

Personally I agree with the OP and I'd say that playboy Dick isn't his true characterization and it's also pretty unimaginative. (I think making male characters playboys/promiscuous in general is overdone, but whatever. Different post lol).

The point OP made about DC writers trying to make Dick into Batman-lite is also really important because yes definitely! Batman-adjacent characters often have trouble escaping his shadow and having their own personality (the irony!)

In a similar example, you might see Jason being characterized as flirty and a wisecracker/jokey. While Jason can be humorous, it's not in a friendly way. Dude is off putting! Dramatic! Introverted! Does not know the touch of a woman (or man)! And I don't think he's flirty at all. When comic writers do that to him it's sooo OOC and forced. Jason sleeping with Kori in RHATO for example is bizarre. I've seen the point made that, for Jason at least, sometimes writers will have him absorb another character's traits instead of giving him his own personality. Roy Harper I think would be one - flirty and humorous in an outgoing way is HIS personality, but for some reason, people give Jason his traits.

Anyway, got distracted by my boy... it's totally up to you what you take from canon. Sometimes DC writers are super weird about some characters and many of them don't believe in continuity.

Tldr: no I don't think Dick is a playboy and DC writers get lazy and weird about characterizations.

[doraambrose]

What do you think about Jason's relationship (platonic!!! Father and son stuff. Still can't believe this ship exists. ) with Bruce? Should they even interact at all if DC only makes Bruce abusive and cruel towards him? Or do you ignore whatever is on those pages like it was always meant to be and like a lot of the fandom does?

(Personally, Bruce shouldn't be the best dad but he should never have raised his hand against his kids, unless during sparring and fighting off mindcontrol. The only exception I would make is shortly after Jason died and Bruce, out of his mind with grief, hit Dick who had kind of tried to comfort him. But everything else? Laughably out of character.)

Hello! Thanks for the ask friend!

Bruce and Jason's relationship is vastly complicated, but I personally don't think they should be on the best terms.

Bruce is very similar to Jason in that he's been written either okay or horrible by dc writers, but actual good characterization in the last like 10-15 years is pretty rare.

In terms of characterization of Bruce, I'm not as well-versed as I am with Jason, but I have a pretty good idea of how he should be. Bruce is heavily flawed. He has some significant childhood trauma that never got truly dealt with,leading to the creation of the batman. I also sense he has bpd or at least bipolar or something like that, as well as a superiority complex. He's also very stubborn and set in his ways and his instinct is that he's always right and everyone should do what he says. He's controlling and a hypocrite. But he has the best of intentions. He wants to keep everyone safe, he loves his kids and he just wants to protect people, but it has to be his way. I fully believe that Bruce never actually intends to hurt his family, but mental illness mixed with a need for control and a lack of socialization can lead to hurtful actions. In gotham war, Bruce truly believes that what he did to Jason was what was best for him, despite how crazy and abusive it actually was. After Damian died, he loved and grieved so much but didn't know how to handle it. He couldn't live without him so he did everything possible to bring him back, hurting his other kids in the process, but he didn't think he was seriously hurting his kids.

Jason is also very stubborn and a hypocrite. He has some substantial childhood trauma that also didnt get proper attention. he's not as hot-headed as certain characterizations of him like to say, but he is a VERY emotional and emotion-driven person. He thinks with his heart more than his head at times. He has very strong opinions and beliefs. He also loves his family and wants to protect people, mainly children and women, and he also believes that his way is the right way.

Bruce and Jason both think the other is wrong and neither want to compromise. And Bruce has done so much to Jason. And jason doesn't understand Bruce's pov because neither of them can actually communicate with each other in a healthy way and neither of them have healthy ways of executing their beliefs and morals, their actions don't always do their intentions justice.

So I think their relationship is strained. They're too similar and too different at the same time. They both have too many problems and don't take good care of their mental health, leading to some really unhealthy Coping mechanisms. But I do agree that some of things Bruce and jason have done have been super out of character and totally could be erased lol

Thanks for the ask friend!

[fractualized]

Hey

Don't really consume original batman comics, can't have acess to this things but I started to read and watch batjokes stuff. I'll say that I consume from the dark and reflecting to the wholesome peak, and one of that keeps heartwarming me is Telltale batjokes. Love how John can go from scary smiling creature to a precious sweetheart. Also like to see different versions of Joker interactions with the batfam in the various fancomics and fanfics. What makes think how I don't see many fics about John Doe with the batfam. Of course I see that is because the Telltale universe doesn't have the Bruce's kids, what is really sad because I think that "collision" could give us some truly great things.

What scenarios do you think it could be treated on these stories that you haven't saw being made yet?

Also, I saw once a post a person made talking how they'd like about John exploring more his sexuality. Like, that would focus more in the John's experiences out of Arkham BEFORE meeting Bruce again. Trying new clothes, talking with new people, discovering makeup (that I think he wouldn't get acess in Arkham). Do you have any thoughts about that too?

Recently I watched some videos that talk about John's possible disorders. How looks like he keeps switching from 'John' to 'Joker' and how he was way more "Joker" in Arkham, maybe having a kind of personality disorder. Sure, must be in that way because they wanted a different John from the one that we have in season one, but we can dream about this a little bit, can we?

That was long. Sorry for the errors, english it's not my language. Like your fics btw. The more I read some things, more I like the whole fan creation stuff and understand better too.

Thank you for the message, and for enjoying my fic! No worries about the length. I'll take your questions one by one:

John Doe and the Batfam

I think one of the reasons not a lot of people (including me) have incorporated the batfam into Telltale fic is that a big selling point for writing it is that the Telltale-verse is its own thing. There's much, much less history to complicate matters if you want to write a canon-compliant story, which includes there being no children to distract Bruce from his relationship with John, which a lot of fic focuses on. The batjokes is certainly what I enjoy! I don't have anything against the batfam (and I'm actually trying to read a little more about at least some of them), but since that interest has never been super high, my fic ideas never went in that direction.

If I do think about bringing in batfam, well, I get a little stuck.

While John is a lighter flavor of Joker, he's still a Joker, and Joker is not a parental person. In the comics he has had some interesting nonviolent interactions with kids, indulging or even protecting them, but that's not the same as being responsible for them. And one of the stronger Joker characteristics John has is his obsession with Bruce and wanting his attention. I don't think John would go all "Death of the Family" on a kid brought into the manor, but he would be wildly jealous. Like, my first plot bunny is John getting a visit from Bruce, who tells him about witnessing this tragic accident at the circus that left a poor child acrobat orphaned, and wanting to help him. Then over more visits, we get a story of little Dick Grayson insisting on investigating his parents murder, so intently that he becomes Bruce's vigilante partner. And John, who's been gnawing on his jealousy over Bruce spending all this time with some kid, loses his shit that an 8-year-old is a better vigilante than he ever was. Just spiraling about how Bruce is forgetting about him. He breaks out, insisting he can help, but just gets thrown back in again. A tragedy!

Okay, let's try one with John out of Arkham, and let's go non-chronological this time and say Bruce meets Jason Todd first. Jason's trying to steal the batmobile's tires, of course, but he's also a witness to a murder or something, so Bruce brings him home. This time John directly witnesses Bruce bonding with a troubled kid, and the jealousy is worse because John recognizes all the ways Bruce calms him down. John and Jason don't get along at all because John is constantly trying to get Bruce to shuttle this kid off to a nice foster home, but similar to the scenario above, Jason's moxy earns him a Robin spot. Then a twist! Jason has leaned into Bruce's mentoring because he wants to find his mother, who he's sure is alive! And John is like, well dang, I'll help you find her if it gets you out of my house. And in some eerie parallels to Jason's comic death, they end up overseas and find Sheila Haywood, who it turns out is defrauding the aid organization she works for. On being discovered, the men she's working with attack Jason, and John has this terrible opportunity to take his jealousy past the brink and let whatever happens to Jason happen-- but he doesn't. He saves Jason instead, not just because he knows Bruce would be wrecked but because he sees parts of himself reflected in Jason. There, that's sort of nicer! I still don't think John would be parental after that, but it would be nicer??

John's Self-Exploration

See, the thing with John having new experiences after getting out of Arkham is that they have to be limited, because that's key to what happens with his character in the game. He's really struggling with finding who he is, because he keeps trying to emulate other people rather than figure out what he personally wants to do with this life. (Which would be understandable even if he was the average person. It's easier to model yourself after somebody else than to put yourself out there again and again to figure out what works for you.) Before Bruce reappears, John is focused on being who he thinks Harley wants him to be and having a place with the gang. It ties into his hatred for Riddler, who just outright disdained of him instead of simply tolerating him like, say, Freeze.

He still naturally does some exploration, of course. He has to dress himself outside of Arkham, and he's a talkative guy so he managed to find, uh, acquaintances outside of the Pact at the Stacked Deck. It probably would have helped him a lot if he'd done more of that, but as much as he seems to act independently in the game, all too often it's in service of impressing Harley or then Bruce. If I were to write about John's exploration, it would probably be about restraint. He would be full of curiosity about the ways other people express themselves, and he'd stifle it because he's not sure if that's what Harley would want. Makeup would be a big curiosity for sure, but I can see John not indulging either because he doesn't see a lot of other guys wear it or because he asked Harley if he could try her kit and she decided to psych him out about it because she could.

Is it too drastic to say that a John who had even trepidatious confidence for self-exploration might have found more balance and avoided his fate in the game? Maybe, but I have to wonder.

John In Arkham Versus Outside Arkham

Personally I tread lightly when it comes to assigning specific disorders to John. It's one thing if someone recognizes their own diagnosis in him and uses that to inform a fic. When it comes to the writing in the game, as far as I can tell, it was just working off characteristics common to the Joker: impulsive, manipulative, self-important, and infatuated with violence, with a poor sense of boundaries and an inappropriate sense of humor. Those traits may be consistent with certain disorders, but there aren't that many fic scenarios where I would feel the need to specify what applies to John, and in those cases I would be extremely careful. When it comes to pure speculation? I'm just not qualified. Heck, I have a fic where I gave John a heart diagnosis and I'm still hoping I wasn't super off-base.

As for the shift from "Joker" to "John," I ascribe to the fish-out-of-water explanation (which, yeah, papers over how Telltale simply needed to change his character for the story). John learned a more aggressive way to navigate life when he was incarcerated in a corrupt asylum, and when the rules he lived by there did not apply outside of it, he had to re-map. Not only did he have to learn different ways to behave, but he had to do it while feeling more off-kilter than usual, exposed and vulnerable. Make a mistake when living in Arkham, you just get put in a deeper hole in Arkham. Make a mistake outside of Arkham, you lose all your newfound freedom and get thrown back behind bars. I don't see a "switch" in John, just him reverting to more aggressive behavior at times, especially when he's under stress.

Well, I hope my thoughts were… interesting? I feel like I pushed back on most of your starting points and that's probably annoying. Sorry!

[bitterrobin]

21, 23, 10 for choose vioelnce

10. worst part of fanon -- see I could go specific on this and say: Tim gets whumped so hard that I barely see anything positive of his canon in fics and everyone else around him are made out to suck, and Jason gets put on a pedestal because he serves as an easy counter to Bruce's philosophy and while thats cool he also gets whumped to hell and back. I could say Dick gets utterly fucked over by other fans because they're so willing to overlook his canon traumas in service of emotional/narrative fodder for their favs and Damian will never get to grow up in fandom's eyes because they still think of him as a spoiled psychopath who should've never been born. I could rant about how female characters don't exist to them because misogyny and a fixation on male trauma and that Bruce is never understood. He's either an unnaturally good and kind father who advocates for therapy and acts like a robot reading a parenting manual OR he's the worst abuser and manipulator, so bad that if a kid says they love him they're actually getting Stockholm'd. But all of these claims fall under the same umbrellas. The truth is the worst part of fanon does this: it obsesses over labels and trauma and the right side of an argument like it'll get their favorite character a good grade in "most traumatized abused child vigilante in DC" AND so actively refuses to engage in the source material that those characters they work so hard for aren't even the comic character anymore. Every time I read a fic or a meta that falls under these, I get really confused. That isn't Tim Drake thats Timely Rake. That isn't Dick Grayson thats Ricky Whitedaughter. That isn't Jason Todd thats Jackson Rod. That isn't Damian Wayne thats literally Damien from The Omen. That isn't Bruce Wayne thats his evil twin Brick Water. Unfortunately theres no fixing it because taste and interpretations are subjective, and I think the entire fandom would go down in flames kicking and screaming before we ever tweak popular fanon ideas to be a little more accurate.

21. part of canon you think is overhyped -- i'm going to get crucified for this but everyone slotting into a perfect family dynamic where everyone loves each other and if anything bad happens, a sibling will fix it for them. I'm not exempt from enjoying fluff fics, its how I got into the actual fic/tumblr side of the fandom, but all of these characters have such a depth of history to them that fluff starts to feel like a disservice imo. Bruce and Dick's relationship can be complicated, they aren't just father and son - they're brothers and best friends and partners and (unhealthily) emotionally depend on each other. Bruce and Jason's relationship can be about the father and son who drift apart and maybe never reconcile, they don't have to be constantly around each other and "forgive" each other when all they do is disagree and thats ok. Bruce and Tim can be a complicated tale of hero worship, mentor/mentee and father and son dynamics because for so long Bruce wasn't Tim's dad and that was fine. Thats what makes it more interesting to explore later when Jack dies and Tim gets adopted. Bruce and Cassandra can be dark mirrors to each other, their dynamic as shown in Batgirl was not entirely wholesome. Bruce has expectations of Cassandra he doesn't have of anyone else because he sees himself in her. (Also Barbara is Cassandra's mother figure not just her older sister). Bruce and Damian can be loving and they can be constantly drifting apart and getting close. Canonically, Bruce had little interest and time in being Damian's father the first years of Damian being a character. Thats ok, and we can explore Damian's feelings with that without cramming Dick into the father slot. Dick doesn't have to be Damian's dad, they can be brothers and partners. All of these people existed in different facets of time and space. They shouldn't all be living under the same roof like the Brady Bunch, its just too much. No one has to fill the father role when Bruce isn't, and Bruce is not a perfect nuclear father either. None of the siblings are perfect children or siblings either. None of them are even normal, and I think rivalries and grudges and hatred and jealousy and clashing parenthoods and perspectives are always more interesting than everyone being cardboard cutouts that spout therapy-speak at the right time.

23. ship you've unwillingly come around to -- im not really a shipping type person, tbh. if there are ships I hate because they do a disservice to both characters in that ship (jayroy, jaykory, damijon, damirae) then I'd definitely say I haven't come around to them. I guess I will say I actively hate on damijon less than I used to and come to accept it as an inevitability, but the same cannot be said for specific kinds of damijon fans.

[bi-bats]

5, 6, 10, and 18 <3

Hiya bestie!! Thank you for the ask 💖

5. What’s a fic idea you’ve had that you will never write?

Probably The Birth of a God, which is a very complicated greek mythology au where Jason is Icarus and he falls in love with Apollo (Tim) and builds the wax wings because he's trying to reach him. After his death he gets revived as Ares (I've assigned out greek gods to over half of the characters in this fic including Dick as Aphrodite, Bruce as Hades, Damian as Thanatos, Barbara as Hephaestus, Cass as Athena, Alfred as Hestia, Duke as Helios) and doesn't tell anyone, but Tim goes to Bruce to get Jason back, which Bruce refuses because he can't. He doesn't tell Tim that he can't because Jason isn't actually there, so of course Tim wages war on him, which drags Jason into it because he's the god of war even though Tim doesn't know that and adkljfdlkfjdlkfdlfjlkdj

Look I love this idea and I'd love to read it but. I'd have to WRITE it and the amount of research I would have to do to twist the plot around the way I want would be insane so it's probably going to die in my brain 😭😭😭

6. Are there any fics from others you reread all the time?

Oh yeah absolutely. Lemme link a few (that aren't just smut lol):

sweet dreams (are made of thee) by @yasmindifference (jaytim dreamsharing 😭😭😭)

and a hand to bite by Sister (the jaytim exes to lovers of all time and also the fic that inspired Rooftops and Bookshops)

chaos is a color I wear well (and it looks mighty good on you) by @glaciya (jaytim angsty feels fic I love this one so much)

Like a Bat out of Hell by @allacesandeights (this fic. This fucking FIC. It's literally one of my go-to recs for when I'm trying to get people into JayTim and it deserves so so so much more recognition than it has holy shit this fic is so fucking good like. I very rarely read fics where I think the plot is perfect but this one is just so well done all around and akjdfajdfsdf read it)

I Didn't Say I Liked You by Generatorcat (I reread this one a LOT it's just delightful I love when they play chicken and you do it SO well, thank you for this one 💖)

Show Me the Meaning (Of Being Lonely) by @timmyjaybird (like. holy shit this whole series. I owe my life as an author to this series. This is the series that got me to consider shipping jaytim and also the first damitim fic that ever made my brain go brrrrrrr I've literally read this series like. 20 times at least and I never would have fallen deep enough into this fandom to start writing without it so thank you thank you thank you and everyone go read it)

10. Is there a fic that got a different response than you were expecting?

Definitely, and it's Now Kiss. I did not expect the response on that and if you know me, you've heard me talk about that. It just felt so rushed when I was writing it and I didn't get a chance to really edit it the way I wanted to and I've worked way harder on fics before and even if it was one of the ones that I was the most excited to share for JTW, there's just a part of me that's like: that's the one everyone loves so much?

That said, one thing about the response that has been lovely is that I've taken it as permission to trust myself a little more. There were a lot of things with that fic that I was uncertain about, but I liked them and decided to leave them alone even if I wasn't 100% sure because I was on a deadline and wanted it posted. They were probably the kinds of things that I would've fretted about incessantly and edited to death if I'd had more time, but people liked them, so it's been really nice to be able to let go of some of my self-doubt!

18. What’s one of your favorite lines you’ve written in a fic?

Damian has always hated that Tim can carve the meat from an action, pull the bone of it out clean.

grughauhgaruharhgau just. I love this line so much. It says so much about both of them. It was also a tight race between that and this:

Everyone believes Goldie, all of the time. He just flashes that gorgeous smile like a fucking master key, and Jason’s always been a tiny bit jealous that everyone else turned out so goddamn endearing. 

also this one 😭😭😭 I really like the way that it reads like Jason's voice and also this is one of those things that he would never ever say because he can barely admit that it's true, even though it is

[rezonan]

Red Hood, other Anti-Heroes/Villians and the issue with killing in comics.

First here's the thing before you read this, I just wanna say this isn't a post complaining about if killing is good or not, far from it so don't worry.

I also wanna say really like Jason Todd. One of my favorite Robins though I like him more as Red Hood. My only issue with him is that DC is stuck with his direction as a character(Not as much as Tim at least). For a lot of reasons

One of those things is that anti-Heroes don't work in main superhero universes at least in DC, in Marvel killing isn't looked down on much unless you do it like the Punisher(Consistently, no exceptions and extreme)

When I'm talking about Anti-Heroes I mean who don't hesitate to kill, because the definition of Anti-Heroes even include guys like Batman, Spider-Man, Iron man and Daredevil (Classical Anti-Heroes,Disney Anti Hero,) talking about the types like Huntress and Red Hood(Unscrupulous Hero) and Punisher (Nominal Hero).

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/AntiHero if you wanna know what I'm talking about.

An issue they have is that they kill criminals consistently, and those criminals include supervillains but in comic books, villians in comics are kinda a commodity. Villians are what makes the heroes. So DC obviously will never let Jason kill the Joker or Riddler or Poison Ivy or Bane, or let Frank Castle kill Green Goblin or Kingpin. That's getting rid of a commodity that writers need for stories.

It's why I laugh when people say why doesn't Batman kill the Joker or something, they won't let him guys. Joker is too popular to kill same with the rest of his rouges, the writers need the villians to continue writing more stories and if time has taught us anything is that new villians don't even catch on most of the time to replenish the old popular ones.

So Frank and Jason and left to keep offing mooks, looking stupid and incompetent for not taking out the actual threats or just offing D-listers, it then brings up the question of why doesn't JASON kill the Joker since he's always talking about how willing to kill he is. yeah sure they'll write Batman like the biggest dick to fight him not too but there has been times when nothing has been stopping Jason to do it, see what I mean?

There's also another thing that DC and Marvel just won't let chracters less popular than the big no kill rule big heroes be more effective (and this is coming from a guy whofor the most part is anti killing). You really think Marvel is gonna let Red Hood have the moral high ground with Batman or Punisher with Spider-Man or Captain America?

But yeah I don't wanna get into the whole 'should heroes kill debate' here just making a point.

This is why they honestly work in outside comic universes like the games or movies. See the 'Superhero Movie Villains Die' trope

Basically they just don't mesh well with the status quo nature of comics.

So now we have heroes/villians(yes I consider frank a borderline villian) who are known for killing but can't kill anyone significant for multiple reasons, like how Red Hood by the New 52 had like 83 kills but no one in there was anyone actually important.

This is why Punishers best run was in an entire different universe where heroes didn't exist so he could kill Kingpin without issues. With Punisher they can always stick with that or just do what they usually do and make him take out mooks and barely developed rouges. They recently made him the head of the hand and gave him superpowers, it's actually interesting in my opinion.

With Jason it's more complicated. There's two sides, he drops guns and killing and joins up with the bat family as a kind of character development or he unrepentantly leaves the bat family behind and starts killing people and using guns then runs into all the issues I mentioned above. The latter side believes that hum dropping killing and guns removes everything that makes him interesting while the former believes it's good character progression for him to drop it. I think both have good points.

Personally I think they should lean into the supernatural side of him, like go all in and make him the dude in the Batfamily that handles supernatural threats, his the only one in the family that has straight up superpowers (Edit: forgot Duke, forgive me but he got them before him so point stands I guess) with his All blades so take those and have him to team up with Zatanna or Constantine, fighting vampires and zombies. (Happy to see they are doing this with Cass kinda I haven't read Spirit World)

Or they lean into the Task Force Z/Outlaws/DCeased aspect of him leading other Mistfits, Anti-Heroes and Villians into becoming better people like with the thunderbolts from Marvel. Maybe hook him up with some kinda of government connection so people he kills aren't illegal during this redemption quests or something.

Well I've got nothing else to ramble about.

[roseworth]

If you got to write an ongoing for Rose, what major arcs would you do? Would you have her ice Slade? Would she team up with Jason's Outsiders, end up with Tatsu or Babs, or be her own free agent occasionally punching other heroes?

oh my god yes. im just kinda gonna start dumping thoughts here with no organization im so sorry but here we go

so first of all i know i will never get this but my ideal rose ongoing would be her working mostly alone but sometimes teaming up with people bc she doesnt like to stay with anyone for long but she DOES work with other people when she needs them

shes been in gotham for a while so id prob keep her there and have her team up with other ppl in gotham every once in a while bc. i want her to. i just think gotham is a good place for her because it is a city of the most stubborn people in the world so she would fit right in

id prob have her do kind of the same thing she was up to in Fresh Hell and taking down various crime rings bc i dont really see her caring much about the costumed villains, not to mention there are a hundred other vigilantes in gotham for the Big Bads

also having her in gotham kind of opens up so many roads SO. gotham vigilante teamups <3 first things first i feel the need to say her and bruce would not have any need to interact and i dont think either of them would really want to fhdkjfhdsf like rose is trained and mostly doesnt kill people so i dont think batman would really care what shes doing until she does something bad, and rose wouldnt really like batman (for various reasons that i wont go into rn) so they would kinda just be doing their own thing

ANYWAYS in general i think that the idea of rose teaming up with bats is sooooo funny bc most of the bats are very meticulous planners and make whole schemes for everything they do. while 90% of the time roses plan is "im gonna go in and start punching people and see what happens" so i think she would give whoever shes working with an aneurysm and thats kind of hilarious to me

i want her to team up with steph and cass for homoerotic reasons because they all have so many narrative parallels, ESPECIALLY with cass so i need them to team up again <3 idk what they would be up to besides getting on each others nerves but i need it so bad

also rose & jason Now.. they r besties to me. i feel like they get into a lot of the same shit so they would also team up fairly often :) not to mention both of them have abandonment issues so they would have the most toxic friendship that constantly shifts between codependency and disappearing whenever something bad happens <3 besties<3333333

honorable mention teamups are babs who im pretty sure ive already talked about a babs&rose teamup before so i wont go into it, helena who i honestly have only read in bop so idk a lot about her but from what i do know i think she and rose would get along, harley who i would only want her to team up with because it would be a fucking mess, dick who i want her to team up with because it would also be a fucking mess but in a different way (renegade arc part 2 but this time theyre both heroes so rose can annoy him even more), duke who i want to include just because i love him even though i cant imagine any reason for him and rose to interact, young justice who arent all gotham heroes but i want them to be around to temporarily absorb rose just for fun, and the entire arrowfam who have no reason to be in gotham but i just want rose to fuck around with them as a treat to ME

as for slade. i think that their relationship is best written when it is really complicated for her :) so i need her to fall back into the cycle of going to him and looking for his approval and being constantly disappointed and angry when he refuses to give it to her :)

anyways ARCS. i dont have a lot of specific ideas for arcs besides another arc of rose giving up the name ravager (bc it didnt fucking stick last time), an arc making her a lesbian (stop booing me im right) and maybe an arc of rose killing slade then immediately spiraling about it bc :))))) yippee :))))))))))

okay this is already embarrassingly long so im gonna stop but i just have so many rose thoughts dc hire me

[vellaphoria]

20 Questions for Fic Writers

Thank you for the tag @waffleinator-inator! <3

20 Questions for Fic Writers

How many works do you have on AO3?

There are 40 that I’ve solo-authored, and 9 that I did varying degrees of work on when a group of dc writers doing a round robin fic collaboration thing

What’s your total A03 word count?

It’s a bit thrown off by the aforementioned colabs, but I don’t want to go through and do the math, so the overall total is 567,072

What fandoms do you write for?

Mostly DC! The comics variant, that is. And within that, mostly Batman-adjacent characters. Though I also have one fic each for the avengers, the silmarillion, and haikuu

What are your top five fics by kudos?

Excluding the collaborations, it’s:

Cut and Run (Bruce crashes Tim and Ra’s’ dinner/business meeting; T, gen, 1.6k)

Deadfall (Canon divergence where Tim died in Red Robin and was resurrected/kidnapped by Ra’s; M, gen, 125k, on hiatus)

Recursion (Tim accidentally travels back in time to when Dick was just starting out as Nightwing, which is complicated by the fact that they still haven’t made up after Damian became Robin; M for mild nsfw, DickTim, 20k)

Complications (Outsider POV of post RR-canon divergence, ft. morally grey Tim; G, gen, 1.7k)

This Whole Damn City Thinks It Needs You (But Not as Much as I Do) (There has been a fair amount of building ust between Dick and Tim after Red Robin. Dick decides to do something about that; E for blatant nsfw, DickTim, 23k)

Do you respond to comments? Why or why not?

Yes, but very slowly!

I respond because is someone took the time to engage with my work and actually write one, then it feels like it’s only right for me to put in an equal amount of effort to respond.

What’s the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

That would probably be the DickBabs with unrequited DickTim wedding Tumblr fic (here, if you like pain)

What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

It’s hard to say. Since I tend to be averse to bad endings, most of my fics have happy endings of one sort or another

Do you get hate on your fic?

Sometimes. Usually from people who can’t grasp that limited third person POV means that the narrating character doesn’t have perfect information at all times, or people who are upset that characters don’t make 100% rational decisions 100% of the time.

Do you write smut?

Yep! <3

Do you write crossovers?

Depends on how you define them. I tend to do a lot of AUs which blend elements from other settings with DC, but I don’t really enjoy writing characters from different, unrelated media meeting.

Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not to my knowledge!

Have you ever had a fic translated?

Yes! My Running (and when to stop) DickTim series was translated into 中文-普通话 國語 by SummerVapour and tiktiktiktiktam, which is linked on the fic itself

Have you ever co-written a fic?

Yes; I helped write a few fics in the round robin collaboration series A Journey of Personal Discovery Through Social Isolation. Amusingly, we named it that a year before the pandemic started.

What‘s your all-time favourite ship?

DickTim, to absolutely no one’s surprise :D

What’s the WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

Probably To Break Every Bended Knee; or, Apocrypha. I really love the setting, but the fic is supposed to be JayTimDick and all the endings I plotted for it ended up being DickTim with Jason kind of doing his own thing. That doesn’t seem like a particularly satisfying conclusion to anyone interested in the story, so I decided to put my time elsewhere.

What’s your writing strengths?

Comments that have gone into specifics have said that my fics have good characterization, visualization, and engrossing plots.

What’s your writing weaknesses?

I’m very bad at brevity, so writing short, snappy fics that also make sense doesn’t usually work out for me.

Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language for a fic?

I pretty much only speak English, so I don’t tend to do it. If I ever had a fic that absolutely needed it, then I’d ask for writing support from someone who actually does speak the language in question.

First fandom you wrote for?

Depends on how you define wrote. If you mean wrote and published, then it’s DC. If you mean wrote when I was a kid and then let disappear into the files of a long-defunct computer, then probably Stargate SG-1.

Favourite fic you’ve ever written?

Of the stuff I have published, probably Recursion. Though if I’m allowed to include WIPs, then I’ve been working on a DickTim slowburn on and off for a while now. It’s meant to cover things from when they meet to post-Red Robin, with a fair amount of mini canon divergences throughout. Currently it’s somewhere upwards of 50k, but I haven’t had a chance to work on it in a while. If you're in the mood for it, no pressure tagging @gerryrigged, @marirah, and @themandylion :D

[x-authorship-x]

Since you have been busy flooding my feed with Shisui(absolutely not complaining, this is great) I figure this is a great time to ask if you're at all familiar with DC(batfam specifically because I've fallen down a rabbit hole) and if you've got thoughts on best Shisui ships from here since I've seen your other shisui crossover ship thoughts

Hi Flux!

So quick disclaimer that most of my knowledge is from mutuals/friends reblogging onto my feed 😅 but shisui ships with the batfam?

Bruce x Shisui:

Honestly I struggle to ship Bruce with anyone? He's such a dad to me like I just see platonic when I look at the poor guy... although I have mutuals who love to scatter Batman/Superman on my feed from time to time... But Bruce and Shisui? Hm their personas and morals of hunting criminals 'from the shadows' would be a cool thing to look into, especially Shisui's sunshine versus Shinobi mentality alongside Batman versus Bruce Wayne™, but - as with all these ships - there is the issue of Shisui's killings (because either you say hey shisui just compartmentalised it so a hit was a hit, which still doesn't translate well, or you say Shisui is so relieved not to have to murder any more, which still has a gaping plotpoint in it that he was raised by killers to be a weapon and that's a LOT of angst to unpack in any direction)

Dick x Shisui:

Solid ship, they both kinda are the ideal older brothers of a complicated family dynamic that is steeped in violence, ethical dilemmas, and intense loyalty. I think they'd really match each other stride for stride and understand each other's darkness and capacity for brutality whilst supporting and appreciating what good humor they've held onto? Also I feel like Dick's background with the circus is a really cool counterpart to Shisui's just as unconventional but much more sinister upbringing 👀

Jason x Shisui:

Ahhhh the family angst, everything is on fire, the identity angst, being dead to the old life and having to build up the shattered pieces into something new... also I like that Jason has a temper, I think shisui could both watch his back on that AND could use someone getting angry for him for once. Shisui's loyalty, razor sharp attention, adaptability and stubbornness would suit Jason's own moral code and street smarts... And shisui would really need the stubbornness to play the long game to get into Jason's inner circle lol

Tim x Shisui:

I feel like this ship would be really cute in the sense that Tim is more anxious than the previous two and maybe Shisui's own hyper competence would boost his morale like yes let's try so hard to do good together (or maybe shisui would make him feel that kinda imposter syndrome as Robin more 🤡 different ship direction but still delicious potential). IDK enough about the details, just vibing here, but I think shisui is the right kind of scarily skilled yet sweetheart to steady Tim and they'd be real cool investigating crime scenes together... Plus Tim is well read, right? I feel like they'd talk circles around each other just as much as a physical spar... However I do like Tim's canon bf??? (Also if you ship Shisui with Dick, for example, then Tim gets role models 😫) But if you insist, as I always say... Poly fixes everything!

Duke x Shisui:

Okay but can we admit that Duke being a metahuman and Shisui being... well, Shisui, is a really cool match up? Like not even getting into the amazing combos of abilities or the sweetness of training together, power reveals and the ensuing trust/insecurity/angst/growing companionship... But also like??? Duke is the resident meta, that's gotta impact his self image and the standards he holds himself to, and Shisui would just be such a vibe thrown into that??? And despite all this I've seen Duke described as "sunshine" who gets on with most people??? Am I the only person thinking ANGSTY BUT POSITIVE POWER COUPLE? quite literally!

Hope this made any kind of sense but I am the furthest thing from an expert on these guys 😅😅😅✨

[roobylavender]

i don't know if you've ever been asked this before but, roughly speaking of course, do you prefer the pre or post-crisis iteration of dick's split from the robin mantle more? i've seen both sides of the arguement, but i'm curious as to where you fall there considering how complicated your thoughts on bruce & dick's dynamic can be. hope you're enjoying your day!

i'm personally inclined towards the post-crisis version but a big part of that is bc i don't actually believe it's as contradictory to the pre-crisis version as people tend to allege it to be. like i'm honestly very confused by people's reading of the post-crisis issue bc the way it's talked about on here you would think bruce told dick to stop heroing wholesale. what he asked dick to do was to stop being robin at his behest. ig there's a fine line between those two statements if you don't want to read into them too deeply but i think it really makes a world of difference bc the first interpretation makes the decision purely about dick and the latter interpretation makes it all about bruce. and it's funny bc people who go with the first interpretation will act like they're making it about bruce by complaining he's overriding dick's personal agency as an adult, etc., but that to me is in effect making it about dick bc his being an adult is the farthest thing from what's actually impt here. making it about bruce means understanding that bruce is hyper aware and critical of how he introduces danger into dick's life. he recognizes himself as an enabler and he takes that position seriously enough to realize that it would actively be wrong to witness dick go through what he did with the joker and ask him to show up in the colors for another night on the town. which is why i think it's impt to recognize that bruce isn't asking dick to stop being a hero, he's only asking him to stop being robin. he recognizes there's a chance dick could still go on to be a hero and he's fine with it bc he knows dick would be doing it of his own volition and not bc bruce asked him to. i am sure people who really really hate bruce would interpret that as an expression of overindulgent self importance but i think it's nothing more than bruce caring about dick and not wanting dick to do things simply bc he's always seen bruce doing them. he feels that way bc he cares

and i believe it's completely within bruce's rights to ask dick to step down as a concerned parent. obv we can talk about the hypocrisy of his decision in light of later events but in that singular moment i don't think he's wrong to recognize he's enabled this to go on for years and that he's in a position to stop it before it's too late. i think a lot of people get caught up in this idea of like, well bruce allowed it to go on for this long so he has no right to stop it now, and i don't really agree bc i mean if you were a parent and made poor decisions prior that doesn't really negate that you still have a responsibility to exercise as a parent in the future. bruce can't use the fact that he enabled robin as an excuse not to protect robin in the future and he knows that. intimately. i think that is one of the most misunderstood things about him (in part bc of how canon and perceptions of bruce deteriorate over time following jason's death) and frankly i would even go so far as to say it's a really good reflection of how relationships between parents and their children are perceived in the west. there's this prevailing idea that bar whatever else has happened in the past you have no responsibility over your child the minute they turn eighteen years old and are not entitled to caring about them or wanting to guide them in their decisions. it's incredibly baffling to me

to piggyback off of the brief jason parenthetical though, in words that will surely ignite dick fans everywhere, i really like the post-crisis version bc i think the way it overlaps and interlaces with what happens to jason is kind of one of the most ingenious things about post-crisis 80s batman as a whole. i'm unfortunately way too lazy to pull up and screenshot comic issues so you will have to bear with my memory of specific lines but the issue where dick was fired (batman #408) was actually referenced to a month prior in an issue taking place during jason's robin tenure (dc #574). jason has a nearly fatal run-in with the mad hatter and while he's being operated on leslie asks bruce, "didn't that close call with dick teach you anything?" and i think it's really clever how max allan collins works with that to ultimately create this tension between the bruce who recognizes that he cannot justifiably enable children into becoming vigilantes but also desperately hopes to save these children from a life of loneliness and unresolved anger at the perpetrators of their trauma. there's a wonderful see-saw between the way we see bruce treat dick and jason that i think culminates quite perfectly with a death in the family for however horrific the actual storyline is. i know the canon in that period pulls from quite a few different writers but it's interesting how you get these stronger exercises of parenting from bruce when it comes to dick (barring the moments of physical abuse which as i'm sure you're well aware i completely ignore as unnecessary exaggerations purely inserted for purpose of drama and standard wolfman-fare dick prop-ups), followed by moments of regret that i think you could argue influence the way he's a bit softer with jason. but then there are moments like the one in the issue above where he wonders if the way he handled dick was actually the right way to go, so you get him telling jason it's okay to step down, he won't mind. and obv jason doesn't step down and life goes on and is swell for a moment in time until something else happens and then bruce is left to wonder all over again whether the stronger approach is the right one. he suspends jason from duty bc it's what he does with dick but in the end what does it get him? the child he so desperately wanted to save dies. idk if i'm making sense here but that interpolation of parental exercise between dick and jason that starts at how bruce asks dick to step down is incredibly interesting to me. it is a patchwork of canon i have stitched up in my own mind admittedly but i am quite fascinated with it