#i love him i used to hate him in s2 but s3....

[hibiscussoupbowl]

[yantao-enthusiast]

i’ve come to the conclusion after watching heartbreak high, that personally i will forgive and defend characters for being unhinged and insane (rowan) or even just cunts if they have redeemable qualities (probably most of the cast but particularly amerie and harper and yes spider too now) but i will NOT stand characters that are fucking annoying (sasha ,,, srsly my girl quinni did NOT deserve that!!!!)

[analyticallymindedaa]

"i don't want him to be anybody but himself." "you sure about that?" "yes." "'cause i heard he told you how he felt and you bailed."

[...]

"the only thing that makes him worse...is you." "i know. why do you think i left?"

today on: i'm literally never gonna be not angry about how jemma was treated throughout s2

[alxclaremont]

rewatching gilmore girls and i forgot how absolutely insane jess and rory make me

[phantomrose96]

Season 3 Elias is so goddamn fucking funny to me I forgot what a rollercoaster he was during my first listen.

Like the s2 finale has Jurgen Leitner giving Jon the whole "monsters are real speech" and Jon's like "I need a cigarette. NO ONE get brutal pipe murdered while I'm gone" and Jurgen fails step 1 because Elias walks in and grabs Jon's point-and-click-adventure pipe he'd been carrying around and Brutal Pipe Murders. Which, of course, Jon walks back in on and is prime suspect #1 due to literally every single feature trait and word he's said in the entirety of s2.

So naturally s3 starts with Jon on the lam and Officer Tonner like "I'm gonna arrest him for brutal pipe murder" and I'M like "Shit. I hate this. Elias is going to SO easily pin it on Jon and get away with it."

EXCEPT Elias walks in and is like "hello Ms. Officer no Jon Archivist did not kill that man, also I won't tell you anything else, also this is what you sound like" while reciting all her childhood trauma and all her illegal activity that will get HER sent to jail for brutal murder of the non-pipe variety and now I'm like "....huh." He's also like "Jon didn't do it but you can kill him if you want maybe :)" Elias your alibi????

And then we come BACK with Jon storming Elias's office with his two lesbian bodyguards as back up and he's like "I'm gonna use my powers to make you confess to pipe murder!" At which point Elias is like "It doesn't work on me. But I'm having fun so Martin go get everyone I need to tell you all how I committed pipe murder." and Martin does and Elias is like "Yes I pipe murdered. I also killed Gertrude. I love murder. You will not be compensated extra for this time. Get back to work." And they... DO... just go back to work. Because work is haunted. One of the lesbian police officers works here now, too. This just happened. "Also living dolls from Russia are about to Apocalypse the world, Jon go stop it," Elias says, while also saying "no I'm not gonna tell you how to stop it."

Okay???? Mr. Elias man??? And you're like "maybe he's a ruthless tactician? Maybe he's brutal but it's all in the interest of stopping the doll apocalypse??? He wants to save the earth???" Except THAT'S not even true it's actually more like he's trying to get the Russian dolls kicked out of line at Disney World so HE gets to meet Mickey Mouse first by which I mean, start his OWN Apocalypse, because if the dolls do it first well then what's the point of apocalypsing a planet that's become someone else's sloppy seconds.

Anyway Elias's master strategy here is to bring the human equivalent of a drowned cat to the gun fight and just sit back and watch Jon fall down every set of stairs he finds while Elias goes "This is good. This will work." His name isn't even fucking Elias.

[euryleli]

I genuinely don't think Will's love for Mike is THAT obvious and I kind of hate it when it's presented like that in fanfics...

Mike is always so oblivious and it feels out of character too, maybe I'm just annoying but it makes me insane to see another piece of text where Mike is just this idiotic airheaded boy who's not even in the denial phase - he's portrayed as completely clueless regarding his feelings and identity which sounds dumb to me I'm so sorry

You could argue Mike knows something's up since s1 and s2 (subconsciously at the very least) but after that ending in s3?? When he talks to Will and then El kisses him (while his eyes are wide open and he then proceeds to space out in front of Will's closet looking so confused and weirded out and honestly kind of panicked??)

That boy KNOWS!! What he doesn't know are Will's feelings and their reciprocity. I really dislike fanfics situated right after s4 or hell, a few years down the line maybe, where Mike still doesn't seem to have even an inkling of his identity figured out.

Because that's not what the show is telling us.

Is he confused? Yes.

Is he frightened? Absolutely.

Is he dealing with crippling amounts of internalized homophobia? Of course!

Is he a dumbass? Yes (affectionate), but still... he's not that bad guys please let's be serious for a sec

[unfortunate17]

I have been thinking about both Wille’s and Simon’s character progression throughout the series and I have realized that it sort of looks like Wille has a pretty good character progression and has been pretty profoundly affected by Simon and their relationship (in a good way). But I don’t really see any of that for Simon. It sort of look alike he has had more things “taken away” by their relationship. He has lost his privacy, and gets hate to the point where he has had to delete his SM and he gets a rock thrown his window. In a way if they hadn’t gotten back together, it looks like all Simon would’ve gained from this period is trauma. Do you think he gained any positive things from this relationship (in the case they hadn’t gotten back together)?

So I’ve spent a long time thinking about this since you sent me this and I have a lot of thoughts about it, but they’re kind of all botched together. Hopefully I do a decent job explaining myself:

In my opinion, Simon definitely has an arc, it’s just more subtle and not as “flashy” as Wilhelm’s. This is genuinely fine with me for multiple reasons: 1. Simon just isn’t the main character of this story - Wilhelm is. So he’s not going to be the one to go on a life-altering journey 2. Simon, narratively, functions has the moral compass around which Wilhelm centers his life around. He’s there to push Wilhelm into embarking on this life-altering journey.

That being said, Simon’s story arc is really simple and very personal, but no less beautiful. We start in S1 with Simon being loudly himself, and Wilhelm adoring him for it, but this quickly becomes an issue - namely, Wilhelm starts to lowkey take advantage of Simon’s generosity and kindness, and ultimately betrays him. Which is why we get that big argument with Sara where she accuses him of “letting people piss all over him.”

Moving into S2, we see a Simon who’s taken that conversation to heart - he’s firm with his boundaries, he doesn’t want to give Wilhelm a second chance, he doesn’t want to forgive because he thinks Wilhelm isn’t sorry. Then, he has another conversation with Sara, where she basically tells him, hey, love is crazy, it makes you do crazy things. And yes, she’s projecting here, but once again, Simon takes her words to heart and decides to follow his feelings. He essentially “gives in” to his love for Wille and decides that no matter what, he wants to make this relationship work because he’s in love, damnit, and he wants to be with Wille no matter what.

And this is the mindset that Simon enters S3 with. That’s why we see him making himself small and trying to appease everyone. He’s just so in love, and he wants it to work so badly, until he just can’t anymore. Notably, he doesn’t end things for his own sake - he does it for Wilhelm. He sees that being with Simon is hurting him because it’s allowing Wille to use him as an emotional crutch and stay stagnant in life. So he leaves, starts to close himself off again. And then - dun dun dun - he has another conversation with Sara. He tells her, damn, you were right, I need to stop being a pushover and she shoots back with no Simon, YOU were right, we should give people second chances. And thus, Simon gets out of the car and gives Wille one more chance.

So what does Simon gain out of all of this? Basically, he’s learning to trust himself and his feelings. His entire arc is him basically learning: hey, my morals were right from the start! This is how I want to live my life! Which makes sense really because this is the role he’s playing in Wilhelm’s arc. And it’s not a particularly sexy discovery, but it’s a really powerful thing to learn, especially in your teenage years.

As for specifically Simon’s relationship with Wilhelm and what he gained from that outside of his arc: Wilhelm adores Simon for exactly who he is. And I think it’s a really profound, valuable thing to experience what it feels like to be loved and be in love with someone who really sees you and wants to stick by you through thick and thin. In many ways, Simon has always had to earn love, but he never has to earn Wilhelm’s love. And that’s kind of life-altering in and of itself - to know that love like that exists and that you are deserving of it.

But what do I know fr 😭

[cheeekycharchar]

The Forbidden Fruit, Choices and Fear

[A GOOD OMENS META ANALYSIS OF AZIRAPHALE POST S2] I know everyone is still upset about that gut punch of an ending to GO S2.. and many are also extra upset at Aziraphale.. I'm in so much pain over it too but.. I have to rationalize that damned "I forgive you" line that broke all our hearts to comfort me until we get S3.. I basically overanalyze our favorite cocoa loving Angel to explain his reaction to the kiss and why we all need to be a lil kinder to him.

2500 BC in the Land of Uz.. Aziraphale, the Angel of the Eastern Gate, had the fear of God put into him. And this affected the rest of his immortal life up until that kiss.

Angels, after the Fall and the great war between Heaven and Hell, had the fear of the Almighty's wrath put into them. They all fell in line and stayed in line. Or else they'd end up like their fallen brethren.. or worse. But there was one lil Angel that had since toed that line..

"Didn't you have a flaming sword? Yeah, it was flaming like anything." "…Gaveitaway.." "You what?" "I gave it away!" As far as we've seen, this is the first time Aziraphale did something "bad". And he's already feeling the pressure. The guilt. The fear. He didn't follow the rules. He didn't do exactly as he was told. And suddenly, here's a Demon slithering up next to him and making him doubt his choice even more. The same Demon that snuck past the guardians of Eden and tempted the first human's into eating the apple, breaking the rules and getting them kicked out of paradise on Earth.

"Bit of an over reaction if you ask me. First offence and everything. I can't see what's so bad about knowing the difference between good and evil anyway. "Well, it must be bad.. [..] Otherwise.. you wouldn't have tempted them into it." "Not very subtle of the Almighty, though. Fruit tree in the middle of a garden with a 'Don't Touch' sign. Makes you wonder what God's really planning." "Best not to speculate. It's all part of the Great Plan. It's not for us to understand. It's ineffable. It is beyond understand and incapable of being put into words."

Already the seeds of doubt are tinkering in his mind. Stay in line. No more questioning the Almighty's plans. That's what got all the bad Angels thrown out of Heaven and then Adam and Eve exiled too.

"I do hope I didn't do the wrong thing." "Oh, you're an angel. I don't think you can do the wrong thing." "Oh, thank you. It's been bothering me." "I've been worrying, too. What if I did the right thing with the whole 'eat the apple' business? A demon can get into a lot of trouble for doing the right thing. It'd be funny if we both got it wrong, eh? If I did the good thing and you did the bad one." *chuckles* "..No. It wouldn't be funny at all!"

And then we get to season two's opening reveal. Crowley and Aziraphale had actually met before the wall of Eden.

"But that's idiocy!" {…} "It's not our job to advise the Almighty on the details of creation." "Well, then whose job is it?" {…} "Well, if I was the one running it all, I'd like it if someone asked questions. Fresh point of view."

And thanks to Aziraphale mentioning the Great Plan to Angel Crowley.. it put seeds of doubt into his mind. Making him question the Almighty's plans.

".. I'd hate to see you getting into any trouble." "Thanks for your help. And thanks for your advice. I wouldn't worry though. How much trouble can I get into just for asking a few questions?"

And then 10 million Angels fell. Kicked out of Heaven and marked as evil, unforgivable, and without God's love for eternity. Then we get the flashback to the story of a a prosperous man of outstanding piety named Job and how his life was destroyed because of a bet between God and Satan to test his faith even in adversity.

"What did he [Job] do? "Job? Nothing. Job's the nicest man in the world. That's why he's so perfect for the bet. You see, God was saying how righteous Job was and how much Job loved God. And Satan pointed out-- that maybe that was just 'cause God's been so nice to him. ..God's letting Satan destroy everything Job has. And then we'll see."

Now remember, the great flood wasn't too long ago. Where the Almighty wiped out nearly all of the human race with a big storm cause they were tetchy aka simply irritable, bad-tempered and annoyed. So this time, Aziraphale actually questions Heaven about this bet when he finds out that Job's children will be killed.

"Trust in God's plan, Aziraphale. Always." "Of course. So, once Job's trials are over, everything is restored to him?" "Even better than that. God will reward him with twice as much as he had before." {…} "I think they quite like the old ones [Job's children].. And if.. we kill them-" "-Aziraphale… we are the good guys. We're not killing anyone. What we are doing is simply not stopping hell. What they do is up to them."

His faith is wavering. He can hardly believe that Heaven would actually destroy a good man's family without truly understanding the fragility and consequences of human life/death; all to test him on a bet.

"Are we sure that Sitis wants to give birth four more times?"

Furthermore, they would be forcing Job's wife to give birth 7 more times despite Aziraphale's warning of them loving their original 3 children and that Sitis may not actually want to give birth to more children at her age. Hence taking away her choice. But thankfully, good ol' Crowley is the worst demon ever and is secretly protecting Job's children and goats. Something they're keeping between the two of them. And then during this deception… Crowley tempts Aziraphale with his first bite of food.

"Have an ox rib." "Are you trying to tempt me?" "Not at all. Angels can't be tempted, can you?" "Certainly not." "Well, there you are then. You're free to try the food."

A temptation he quickly falls into. A choice to eat the food and enjoy it to gluttony. Another sin under his belt. In the end, Virtuous Job passed his test but had the shit reward in return. Except Crowley and Aziraphale secretly saved the children.. which lead to Aziraphale lying straight to Heaven.. again.

And this is where he finally falls apart.

"I'm ready to go." "Go where?" "To Hell." {….} "But you have to. I'm like you now.. A demon.." "You think you're a demon?" "I'm a fallen angel! I lied.. To thwart the will of God." "Well yeah, you did, but I'm not gonna tell anybody. ..Are you?" *shakes head no* "No. Then nothing has to change, does it?" "…But what am I?" "You're just an angel who goes along with Heaven as far as he can." "That sounds um.." "Lonely?" "Yeah. But you said it wasn't." "I'm a demon. I lied."

As Crowley always tells him- Demons lie. And Aziraphale lied. Again. And now they're keeping this huge secret between the two of them. To never be spoken of or else possibly face the wrath of God. THIS scene right in this minisode here is SUCH an important part of Aziraphale's character and his future choices. And that's what it's all about, isn't it? Choices? The ability to choose between good and evil.

"Look, I am good. You, I'm afraid, are evil. But people get a choice. You know, they cannot be truly holy unless they also get the opportunity to be wicked." "Yeah, that only works if you start everyone off equal. You can't start someone off like that and expect her to do as well as someone born in a castle." "Ah, but no, no. That's the good bit. The lower you start, the more opportunities you have."

What we learn from this wee Scottish body snatching story is that something can be seen as evil but could actually be a good deed from a different perspective. And that Aziraphale truly believed that the lower you start, the more opportunities you could have. But he also believes in divine punishment. Punishment that can be dealt at any time for any thing. Big or small. From a few questions that make you lose God's love to selling corpses for survival money and accidentally getting your best friend killed or just having too much faith in God could destroy everything in your life for a bet. All of which he has witnessed with someone good (Crowley, Job, Elspeth, etc) losing everything that's important to them in the most horribly way. But Aziraphale remembers the hard lessons he learned; of inequality and responsibility of your actions and the choices you make.

Someone born into poverty doesn't get as much out of life as someone born into a rich lifestyle. Or.. a lowly snake and a lowly principality falling in love and being forgiven may not be as easily dismissed as a Duke of Hell and Archangel finding love in one another and simply being allowed to run away to the stars together without any punishment. It's all of these moments, these lessons that Aziraphale learns throughout the years that change his view on life but he still remembers the wrath of God throughout existence. Something as little as a question could get you kicked out of Heaven, eating an apple could get you banished from paradise or you could be the most faithful perfect and loved person and still have your entire life destroyed over a bet. What does he know most about the Almighty? They're "tetchy" and unpredictable.

"Aziraphale, Angel of the Eastern Gate. Where is the flaming sword I gave you, Aziraphale, to guard the Gate of Eden?"

He then conceals the truth to God themselves of the choice he made to give humanity a fighting chance of survival by giving his holy sword away. And is left alone without another word. Forced to walk on egg shells for the rest of his existence out of fear.

"So, giving the mortals a flaming sword. How did that work out for you?" "The Almighty has never actually mentioned it again.." "Probably a good thing."

That fear of the unknown consequences to his past actions.. his lies.. for good or for bad.. he could fall at any moment or lose everything he holds precious (aka his Angel-ness and Crowley).

"I'm not an idiot, Crowley. Do you know what trouble I'd be in if.. if they knew I'd been fraternizing? It's completely out of the question." "Fraternizing?!" "Well, whatever you wish to call it. I do not think there is any point in discussing it further."

So what does he always do? Deflects.. to protect himself. To protect Crowley. Not saying the real truth out loud. Keeping the reality of their relationship an unsaid secret like always.

But sometimes, actions speak louder than words.

"Should I say thank you?" "Better not."

Yet again, he breaks the rules. Doesn't even want to hear a thank you. Again, it must all go unsaid.

"You go too fast for me."

Crowley has always been one step ahead of him. Asking questions, falling, breaking the rules, etc. Aziraphale isn't ready yet. He's not ready to lose everything he holds dear to him by admitting out loud all of his sinful choices or else face the punishment he's been fearing for thousands of years.

"Go off together?" "How long have we been friends? Six thousand years."

Aziraphale starts panicking here. Crowley is saying too much out loud. Deny deny deny.

"Friends? We're not friends. We are an angel and a demon. We have nothing whatsoever in common. I don't even like you."

This bandstand breakup was literally Aziraphale freaking out about doing too many bad things dealing with the whole anti-Christ situation and Crowley getting too close to saying what they truly are to each other. But the fear is too much and he lies again. But this time to himself. Aziraphale has only ever wanted to do the good thing. To make the correct choices. To be on the right side. But he's always faltered. Made choices that he was sure were the bad ones. Lied on occasion. Kept secrets from Heaven and God. Given into temptations. And has always had this fear of God's Almighty wrath hanging over his head for millennia. Always waiting for the other shoe to drop. At any moment, everything will be taken away. But what could be the last straw? The straw that finally breaks the camel's back? To garner God's attention and punishment. It has to be something big. The biggest and most important part of his life. Something that matters to him more than anything in the world. His relationship with the Demon, Crowley. But he's learned. If you don't say it out loud.. if you keep it to yourself. Then you won't be punished. It's worked out for him so far. So why should he think otherwise? And then in the end of S2E6, Metatron gives him the opportunity to make a change to the Heavenly system. His chance to restore his best friend to his former holy glory. A chance to relieve all the suffering he's seen throughout history. A chance to make a difference. Despite all his secret sins, he's being given an unbelievable opportunity- one that proves that maybe he isn't as bad as he always thought he was. He's actually seen as worthy. But then Crowley gets angry about all this. He's against it all. He doesn't want that. He doesn't want to be an Angel again. He doesn't want to return to Heaven. He just wants to be with Aziraphale. And he finally says their best kept, unsaid secret out loud. With a love confession and a passionate kiss.

"You idiot. We could have been… us."

Aziraphale wants this more than anything but every instinct inside of him is screaming to stop it, to not let anyone see, to not let anyone know the truth. This final temptation. His one and true forbidden fruit that is the Demon Crowley.. and it's the one he knows he must resist at all costs.

The fear is overpowering. And the only words that come from his lips…

"I forgive you."

I forgive you for letting our unsaid secret out. I forgive you for trying to tempt me. I forgive you for refusing to join me in Heaven as a renewed Angel. But can he ever truly forgive himself for the choice he just made? Remember, in the end, Aziraphale is just afraid. Afraid to lose everything. Afraid to lose Crowley. Fear of punishment can be traumatizing after all. And it will all be fixed in S3. ;) HAVE FAITH IN GAIMAN!

..Sorry this was so long and drawn out but… I NEED SEASON 3 ALREADY.. (everyone! keep re-watching GO2 on Prime! and no more threats to the creators plz ^-^) Honestly, this was very cathartic to write and help me come to terms with the most heart wrenching painful TV kiss of all time D: But I need to see how their story unfolds. I need to see Aziraphale allow himself to make the choice to be with Crowley without fear of punishment. I NEED MY INEFFIBLE HUSBANDS. TOGETHER. T^T

PS. Literally as I was finishing writing this, I saw Neil Gaiman himself say this on his Tumblr, "But the story of Job is pretty central to the whole Good Omens conversation, including Aziraphale's bit of it." OMG I KNEW IT lololol

[jaegerisim]

Vent post y'all are gonna hate me for.

I viscerally hate how the Duffers treat most of their non white or queer characters and I hate even more viscerally, how y'all big byler blogs in your circle jerk of other 5 big byler blogs casually like to ignore many red flags the show has.

Y'all like to say: "tHe DufFeRs ArE gReAt WrIteRs" and it's like girl, who are you lying to??? They aren't top shit writers at all. The Duffers are pretty mid imo. Yeah, they run a good show that's fun to watch and theorize abt , but that doesn't mean they're good writers cuz they're not.

1. they completely side lined Will during s3 for the sake of their straight romances: lumax, jancy, mlvn, duzie and partly stobin (even if stobin wasn't endgame, thankfully, Steve's intentions were clearly wanting to date Robin and they gave it a lot of screen time). Will was sidelined bc he didn't fit the straight romance plotline bc they planned to make him gay or whatever. Now in s4 Will and his feelings have been used as mlvn toilet paper. Yes, we like to say this is build up for byler but canonically, Will's feelings have been used to clean the shit mlvn leaves behind.

2. Billy was sympathized a lot during the last 2 seasons. They gave him the sad backstoryTM in order for ppl to feel sorry for him. Billy's backstory is literally Jonathan's but whatever.

3. El's anger issues are constantly girlboss-ified. They down play her bullying situation and literally just use it for El to be a ''girlboss" without realizing how triggering that is. As someone who has lived bullying, seeing it be ignored by canon and fanon is super sad. The whole Rink-O' Mania experience must have been so traumatizing for her yet, everyone absolutely forgets abt it 🤷🏻‍♀️

4. Robin, Erica and Argyle are stereotypical characters. Robin is the quirky lesbian with social anxiety, Erica is the badass black woman and Argyle is the Latino stoner that sells weed to white kids and works as a pizza delivery guy.

5. Altho Argyle and Eddie both do drugs, (Eddie actually sells K-12 to a minor and nobody batted an eye. He has a huge fan base). Eddie is held in a pedestal bc "poor thing 🥺 he lives in a trailer with his uncle 🥺". Tell me a single fact you know abt Argyle that isn't "he smokes weed", "he is Jonathan's only friend", "drives a van" and "he works at a pizzeria". Exactly, Eddie is given a useless backstory and Argyle isn't.

6. Dustin stopped being important to the plot sometime around s2 and s3. He is only there to curse and be mildly funny. My guy needs to hangout with ppl his age cuz he only hangs out with seniors.

7. El needs to stop having so much "I'M THAT BITCH" screentime like I need in s5 for El's arc to not just be her becoming more powerful and falling in love with Mike. I need the Duffers to explore her trauma and problems.

8. Angela should have been run over by the van.

9. Patrick should have been given a backstory that isn't the basic "strict black parents that hit their kids cuz they are a disgrace". Patrick's backstory is actually racist af, fight w the wall.

10. As Lex already said, they didn't trigger tag the ep where Jason and his friends assault Lucas and Erica. Like wtf? Why was that necessary? Why did I have to see a black boy being held at gunpoint by some white guy?? Was it relevant to the plot?? I don't think so. And then I've got to see ppl online be like "Jason wasn't that bad. He was just mourning" like bitch you can stfu. This is what happens when you make the racist assholes conventionally attractive.

Also the fact that Lucas's arc is fulfilled by him fist-fighting Jason and "embracing his weirdness" aka accepting he is black. His arc was not fulfilled at all cuz that ending spoke so loud to me. It showed how little empathy ppl have towards the struggles poc ppl living in the Midwest have. Y'all circle jerks can only see racism when it's super obvious.

Furthermore, parents complained when ST showed "an excessive amount of smoking" yet nobody batted an eye when Billy tried to run over Lucas, when Erica (an 11 y.o ffs) was chased by white kids or when Lucas was held at gunpoint by Jason.

All of this happened while they focused on Max's guilt and mourning that, yeah, are important but certainly not less important than racism!!!

11. In s3, they gave us that whole Nancy vs The Bigots arc that was honestly just triggering and useless. It didn't help Nancy's character at all, quite the opposite it put unnecessary angst.

12. Lonnie being presented as an abuser just for him to never be spoken of again. Can we please get to explore the trauma he left the Byers's with?

13. The fact that both queer relationships are considered "sloppy seconds" is extremely sad. Both Vickie and Mike are rebounding from their failed relationship with Robin and Will. These 2 ships have caused more commotion than Jancy and Jopper together! (These last ships are technically sloppy seconds too but everybody forgets that. Shocker!!)

14. Last but not least, ppl blame Argyle for being the one to get Jonathan into smoking weed as if Jonathan probably wasn't the one looking for it. Let me tell you, that you only find weed if you look for it.

[capinejghafa]

the only way for this to have made any sense, if you will... is if Diego didn't do anything during s2 or s3. Like nothing! Like forget taking care of Stan for a minute or forgiving her. His belief in Lila, in his future fam, in their love, came with the promise when he gave her back the bracelet! Not to mention Lila, she grab his hand and walked away with him because she also believed in that promise. And I know promises can be broken! But tua spent actual years developing this ship... like the foundation and how it would work.

Diego also learned Punjabi for her and his in laws, he got a job he hated for her family... I hate to take side because that's not what this is but Lila also gave up. You want to pin this all on Diego it's whatever, but Lila was sneaking around for who knows how long... because she was sneaking around. Maybe she wasn't cheating in physical sense, but she was cheating in an emotional sense. I love Lila (one of my cat's is named after her!) but let us not pretend that she didn't also fail their marriage almost to a worse degree... she was emotionally distant.

Also, Lila and the other person being a better fit would have worked but it was developed so poorly (and the age gap in both canon and irl is so gross don't over think it) that by the time we got to the episode it was just a throw away plot.

In doing all this... he also destroyed whole Five was in the process...

So none of this makes sense, you fucking hack.

[source]

[nerdflayer]

This is my opinion on why I believe the GA doesn’t see Byler.

Before I begin, I just want to say I’ve been a Byler fan since Season 1. Season 2 cemented my feelings about them. Season 3 crushed my soul. And season 4 at first watch made me feel pessimistic but eventually optimistic. As a gay boy myself I can’t help but see the whole show through Will eyes (he is me) and can’t help but fall in love with Mike. I mean he did so much for Will in the beginning, how could you not love Mike for that.

The relationship between the boys really does take a turn for the worse coming off S2 into S3 because Mikes character kind of does a 180 in terms of Bylers relationship.

Anyway. Talking about S4, we see A LOT of the CA plot line from Wills perspective. And I think this is key to people not seeing Byler. Wills feelings are made very clear. He’s depressed, traumatized, he doesn’t fit in, he is well aware of his homosexuality which brings stress and suffering and the tremendous disappointment that he has in Mikes character, yet he can’t help but love regardless. With that said, Wills POV is bleak, and coming off the back of S3 it’s easier and, I would say necessary, for his character to believe that Mike doesn’t love him. The pain of letting yourself believe they do love you only to be rejected, is very hurtful. And I don’t think that boy can handle more pain so it’s safer for him to deny the hope. Will even says “I’m not going to fall in love.”

Mikes actions also play into this. Will does not see Mikes love for him. He can’t hug him, is dismissive, he argues and blames Will at Rink O Mania, he wrote to El but didn’t seam to call Will, makes the whole trip about El, isn’t attentive to Will at all, and even when Mike apologizes for obsessing over El- every one of their conversations is still about her. Again this is Wills POV. I will say Mike does give him hints and mix messages for romantics feelings but like I said, how is Will suppose to trust? Is Will just reading into the flirting because he wants it so badly? It needs to be direct otherwise Will and the GA won’t see it or believe it.

Obviously there are a lot of hints for Byler, and I believe 100% it will happen. I’m choosing to trust the hope even though Will isn’t able to.

My point is I think Wills painful POV cannot be underestimated even if straight viewers dont like Will you can’t deny how powerful it is. Will literally helped Mike say I love you to El because he doesn’t have hope for himself. I think straight viewers use his hopeless as evidence for why Mike and El will end up together. It’s interesting that you hate Will but Will plays a role in convincing you of Milevens endgame. What they don’t understand, other than all the Byler evidence, is that Will is wrong! Mike does have romantic feelings for him and Mike will get there! Because Mike doesn’t need to find himself he needs to return to the person he’s always been. He showed us who he is and it’s the person he was in S1 & S2 and we see it when he’s with Will!

[broadwayfan92]

Am I the only one who likes Colin and Penelope in S3 part 2?

Part 2 was always going to be about Colin finding out about LW. Yes, he was very, very mad, but it was understandable because of what Pen wrote about Marina, Eloise and himself. Yes, he was harsh, but remember how he treated Marina in S1 after he found out she was pregnant? He was very upset and angry, and said some things he shouldn’t have said.

However, this time it’s different, Colin knew he was in love with Penelope and still wanted to marry her. He found out about LW right before their wedding, so it makes sense he’s going to need time and space to digest that information. He loved her, but he also was hurt, angry, conflicted, jealous and in love. That's a lot of emotions to sort out. Just like with Marina, he said some things he shouldn't have. Colin is VERY sensitive, which is his best and worst character trait.

However, he was able to put aside his anger during the wedding and reassure Penelope with a nod that he wanted her to walk down the aisle. The love in his eyes was evident every time Pen was with him. Just when everything was fine and when it seemed like that they could work it out, the queen comes in saying one of the Bridgertons is LW. When he asked Pen to give up her column in that moment, she said no. Of course Colin was upset, especially since they hadn't moved past this roadblock.

Colin tried to save Penelope from Cressida’s blackmail, but made things worse and he hated that he couldn’t help. He's so used to helping Pen that he's never seen her be independent and work things out on her own. In the end, Colin realized he didn’t need to be a hero and Pen didn't need saving. It took time, but he worked through his emotions and was able to be the husband she needed. He accepted his wife’s choice and stood at her side. He loved Penelope deeply and was devoted to her.

Penelope also went through her own arc. She’s realized that she’s made huge mistakes because of her writing. She was trying to do better with the power she held, even if she couldn’t change the past.

She was going to tell Colin about LW, but kept getting interrupted or it was not the right time. She even gave up LW up after talking to her mother and Eloise. Pen only started writing again when Cressida nearly succeeded in trying to take credit for her work. Penelope stood up for herself and told Colin at their wedding that she wasn’t going to stop writing because LW was her work. Unfortunately, it drove a wedge in her and Colin's relationship because he didn't like keeping her identity a secret anymore than she did. In the end, she found her voice, formed her own plan and came clean. The truth was out and she was free of the secret that was too difficult and too dangerous to keep.

No, Colin did not need to go to Penelope during or right after her speech. That was HER time and part of both their arcs. She was owning up to her mistakes and actions, and Colin didn’t need to save her. He was looking at her with the love and support she needed. He nodded in encouragement and pride. Their time as a couple was after her moment in the spotlight.

These are flawed characters shaped by their home lives and experiences that life threw at them for 3 seasons. This was about two people growing, accepting each other for who they are and the love between them conquering everything else. Forgiveness was also a big part of their stories. Penelope had to forgive herself for her mistakes and ask for it, while Colin had to forgive Penelope.

Throughout the season, Colin had to learn to be himself instead of what society expected of him and to not be the hero. Penelope had to learn to come out of her shell and find her voice outside of LW. This is a big accomplishment for two characters who are at least 19 and 22 at the start of S3.

Side note: I’ve noticed the writers like drama for every couple on Bridgerton, particularly the last four episodes. S1 was heavy on lack of communication. S2 dealt with not wanting to fall in love. S3 dealt with secrets. Both of the main characters of these seasons aren't 100% happy until at least the last 10 minutes of the last episode.

I think in S4 we’ll see Colin and Penelope as a happier and stronger couple. However, I don’t expect to see a lot of them, similar to Anthony and Kate in S3 and Daphne in S2. Once the couples are married, they don’t seem to get a lot of screen time in order to make room for the next main pairing, but are there to offer advice. Personally, I hope next season is Benedict's.

Anyway, loved this season! Polin forever!

[formercarylshipper]

Norman once said about Daryl, “he wears his heart on his sleeve and he means what he says, and if he falls in love, he’s going to fall in love forever”. This spinoff has proved that’s false. Or more likely, it confirms that the “i love you” between Daryl and Carol was indeed platonic. He loves her but he’s not IN love with her. Because if Daryl was in love with Carol, then he wouldn’t have developed feelings for Isabelle and he certainly wouldn’t have kissed her or started planning a future with her.

I just feel like everyone tried so hard to sell a Caryl story and made sure that they took advantage of Carylers hopefulness to tease us something that we couldn’t believe might FINALLY happen. They started using TWDCaryl as a hashtag and all of the actors and EP’s (yes, including Melissa) spread just enough “hints” and content to keep us hanging on. We naively thought that the lack of mention of Isabelle meant that she wouldn’t be a concern because it was a Caryl story and if she had any importance, then she would have more mention.We had absolutely no idea what was coming our way. What we were actually getting. No one except the anti’s thought it would be what it ended up being.

Then Zabel opened his mouth and made his thoughts about Caryl perfectly clear. Then Norman did (plus he low key hates Carylers I think?) and Melissa said that she never knows what to say when people tell her that they want Carol and Daryl together romantically and that she likes them the way they are. And then AMC doubled down on the whole BFF thing. The signs were there. People started pulling away but some stayed hopeful.

Then the whole season got released. And clips were posted of Isabelle’s actual importance to the story. She (and Laurent) is the bulk of Daryl’s storyline. His developing feelings for her, their kiss, planning their future together, her death and then Daryl’s mourning at the loss for the remainder of the season (and into S3 apparently). Then Laurent becomes his primary concern. Carol plays ZERO role in Daryl’s world until she shows up and even then, she’s there to support him through his man pain.

Now we’re here with 2 episodes left and while some Carylers are still here for the ride, many more are not watching S2 and now with Isabelle’s death, the Darabelle/ABC shippers are pissed off and threatening not to watch. It just feels like a series of bad decisions. I know we still have S3 but who is gonna still be around to watch it?

[theoriginalbylergod]

Mike Wheeler is important and there's nothing wrong with analyzing him

Since y'all wanna be insufferable bitches about it I'm gonna explain to you why he's important, why Will loves him, why his struggles should be acknowledged, and why his character depth is pivotal to byler endgame being a satisfying conclusion for both Mike AND Will. Deal with it!

We are not seeing smoke where there isn't a flame. We are seeing smoke where there is a literal fucking forest fire.

Starting off with something a lot of people aren't ready for but I've seen more people talking about: Mike is the main character of s1 at the very least. He is the character that brings us into the world of stranger things. He is the character that the writers chose for this. Mike is the main character of s1 and it was an instant hit. The writers love Mike. Contrary to popular belief, giving a character an arc where they are struggling and their behavior changes from what is normal for the character we know and love does NOT mean the writers hate that character. It means they deliberately chose to give that character complexity and depth. Your inability to like characters that do anything wrong ever is not the fault of the writers. Your decision to act as if a character is not important is not reflective of the actual narrative because it in fact is in direct opposition to the narrative. So just to be clear, if you genuinely believe that Mike isn't important, or that the writers hate him, or don't care about him, or that his story "takes away" from any other character's - ESPECIALLY WILL'S - you are simply wrong.

In s1 and s2 Mike is established as an extremely caring person. He's loving, loyal, brave, intelligent, and trying his best. He is also established to be hot headed, someone who speaks without thinking quite often, someone who is capable of hurting his friends despite that being the last thing he wants to do. He is all of these things and more. He is a human. He is a kid. So in s3, when suddenly he is entirely different, it is completely logical to assume that there is a reason for that. He did not just wake up one day and decide he wanted to be an asshole, push Will away, make his friends feel abandoned, and echo the same sentiments their bullies held. Something is happening with him. He has so much going on in his head and it is painfully obvious. He's holding something in, he's hiding from everyone and from himself. We see glimpses of what he's trying to hide after Will calls him out on his behavior. Will gets through to him. Mike is usually unresponsive to tough love, except for when it's coming from Will. After their fight, it is obvious that he's trying to be better. But he still doesn't wanna face certain things, and he doesn't know how to navigate that. Because he's 13 years old.

There is a reason for all of that internal conflict. There is a reason it comes pouring out of him at certain times. He's crumbling. He is quite literally falling apart because he's holding on to too much. It's not a stretch to assume that, it just takes basic media literacy. Why would the writers have Mike act this way if he was just supposed to be a one dimensional character? Why would Finn be directed to portray Mike the way he does if there was nothing more going on? There are times where Mike looks like he's in physical pain because of his internal conflict. There is a reason for that. And acknowledging that DOES NOT mean people are taking away from Will. That's the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Do y'all seriously not understand that more than one character can have emotionally complex storylines? Genuinely asking, is this a new concept for you?

Will's love for Mike

Will is head over heels in love with Mike. That is very much established. So when you're dismissing the emotional depth of Mike's individual arc because you think acknowledging it "takes away from Will" you are actually diminishing the significance of a huge aspect of Will's emotional arc. By taking away the significance of Mike, you take away from the significance of Will.

Let's do a quick recap of the very significant role Mike has played in Will's entire life:

Mike is Will's first friend.

They have grown up together and it can be assumed that they've reached important milestones together.

Mike has always been a safe person for Will. He's been a constant in Will's very chaotic and unfair life. Until the summer of '85, Mike had always been something good in Will's life. (That's not to say he is no longer something good, but it can be assumed that the summer of '85 is the first time Mike has been a causal factor in Will's unhappiness)

When Will went missing, Mike did not hesitate to search for him. It wasn't even a question of if. The moment he knew Will was missing he knew exactly what he'd be doing that night. He spearheaded the search amongst the party. He was the leader.

When Will came back, Mike was the only person that didn't treat him like he was gonna break. He cared for him, and he was there for him, but he didn't treat him differently; Will tells us as much. Which means we can infer that the way Mike was with Will in s2 - how gentle and loving he was - was nothing new. He had just always been like that.

When Will was possessed, Mike stayed by his side. Even when it was scary, even when it could've gotten him killed, he stayed. Because once again, for him, it wasn't even a question. That's just where he knew he needed to be. He was in the shed when they were trying to get through to Will. He was set apart from Lucas and Dustin, but he also wasn't equated to family. And his retelling of the story of the day they first met was the final push Will needed to find a way to communicate.

After a year of things being "weird" between them, Mike tells Will that he didn't deserve to be treated the way he had been. Mike tells him that he wants them to be okay again, and for the rest of the season he puts in the work.

Things get rough in s3, and at the beginning of s4, and despite all of that, Will confesses his love (albeit veiled). In a moment where Mike is feeling awful about himself, he tells him that he loves him and needs him, and he tells him why. And to him it doesn't matter that he's breaking his own heart to do it, because it's Mike. Mike, who makes him feel like he's not a mistake at all, and that he's better for being different. For Will, there was no other option. The person he loves was hurting and he knew how to help, and so he did.

Mike is the first person Will tells about Vecna still being alive. Because they're back to being a team. He knows he can trust Mike, and Mike seems to be very determined to prove him right.

SO.

These are all real and canon aspects of Mike's presence in Will's life. Will falling in love with Mike isn't something that just happened for no reason. Will fell in love with Mike because of who Mike is. When you acknowledge that, and when you acknowledge the reasons they've set out for why Will loves him - the reasons Will literally told us - you can better understand Will. But when you dismiss all of these things about Mike, you are dismissing a large portion of Will's emotional and romantic arc. You aren't being a Will Warrior. You are erasing so much of him and his feelings and his lived experience. That is not the hill you wanna die on.

Will loves a person. Not a feeling. Yes, he says that Mike makes him feel like he's not a mistake and that he's better for being different. But that's not why he loves him. He feels that way because he loves him.

Mike is a fully fleshed out character with his own feelings and struggles and fears and traumas and motivations. He's not a plot device. He's not just an accessory to Will's arc. He's not a character that was written only to be Will's love interest. He's Will's love interest because he's Mike.

If Mike didn't matter, and if Mike didn't play a significant role in byler, then they would be able to write in a love interest for Will in s5 and have it be somewhat satisfying. But they can't do that. Will's love for Mike has so much depth because Mike has so much depth. It is genuinely crazy that this has to be stated and that I have to back up this claim because it is simply a canon fact.

So yes, the rain fight affects Mike's character development and his involvement in it is important. Yes, the van scene literally could not exist without Mike and therefore his involvement in it is incredibly important. Yes, every single byler moment has an impact on Mike, and Mike has an impact on it because they are BYLER moments. Yes, Mike will have a lot of significant moments - with Will AND on his own - in s5 because his arc deserves and needs as much attention as Will's in order to execute byler endgame in a satisfying way.

No, none of these facts negate Will's importance or take away from his story. If anything, they add to it because Mike and Will's arcs are corresponding and intertwined.

Mike's struggles

To name a few

Dysfunctional family

Has been bullied his entire life

Extreme self worth issues

Inferiority complex

Hero complex

Lack of self preservation

Suicidal ideation (has been on display since SEASON ONE)

Internalized homophobia

To get this out of the way: Mike's internalized homophobia is allowed to be discussed. Discussion of it is not the dismissal of Will's internalized homophobia. Surprise surprise, two queer kids in the 80s have internalized homophobia! Who'd'a thunk it?! Their internalized homophobia presents in different ways but it is there for both of them. I personally relate to the way Mike's is portrayed way more than I relate to Will's. So why is it that we can't discuss it without being accused of erasing Will's experience? Or without people saying that we're "copy and pasting" Will's story? Because quite frankly, that feels dismissive of my - and likely many others' - real and lived experience. So please for the love of all things that are good just stop with this talking point because it will never hold up.

Moving on

I'm not gonna do a full breakdown of all of Mike's issues. Because contrary to popular belief, there are a lot. And that would be exhausting and I'd get carried away and it's not the point of this post. The point of this post is to defend the acknowledgement and mere existence of them.

If you're a byler that for some reason thinks Mike only exists to be Will's love interest and his trophy as compensation for his trauma, let me ask you this: Have you considered how awful it would be to have a queer character's individuality and emotional depth completely ignored for the sake of focusing on the queer character that "really matters"?

If Mike's own issues, with his queer identity and otherwise, aren't thoroughly explored... What's the point of all this? If Mike really is insignificant in this storyline and his individuality has no effect on it.. where's the emotional payoff? If his perspective doesn't matter... Why have the writers gone to such great lengths to ensure we don't have that piece of the puzzle yet?

Analyzing Mike and understanding Mike is very important to understanding byler. Once again, I think it's crazy that this needs to be said.

I also think it's important to note that characters can have similar struggles. There's no rule against that. Just like real life. Characters having similar struggles is not a bad thing, and acknowledging that their struggles are similar is not dismissive of either character. We're talking about STRANGER THINGS. Jonathan and Nancy's thing is "we've got shared trauma". They have literal matching scars. Shared experiences are some of the main building blocks for this show's romances. Byler has a TON of shared experience, basically their entire lives. We already know that. So wouldn't it be so beautiful for them to learn that they've been struggling with the same thing this whole time? That the entire time they felt alone in what they were going through when really they had each other and they never even knew it? Wouldn't it be so beautiful for Mike's acceptance of Will and Will's love for him was also a step toward accepting himself? Wouldn't it be beautiful for Will to learn that his love makes Mike feel like he's not a mistake? None of that would be in the realm of possibility if Mike didn't have emotional depth and if his individuality wasn't important.

And that leads me to my concluding point...

A satisfying execution of byler endgame hinges on Mike's individual emotional arc being handled well

God I hope this isn't controversial to say. I sincerely hope most people haven't forgotten that.

Here's a hypothetical:

Imagine season five has been released. You're watching it, and you notice that Mike has been relegated to just a supporting character for Will. We don't get any of his perspective. We don't get any explanation for his s3 and early s4 behavior. His breakup with El doesn't have any real tangible effect on him, it's really just used for El's character development. We never see him pining for Will like we saw Will pining for him. And then suddenly Mike is learning about the painting and then suddenly he's confessing his love and then suddenly byler is canon and official.

Now wouldn't that just be awful? Wouldn't that be unfair to the audience, to Mike, and to Will? For us to never learn just how much Mike had to go through to even be able to say it out loud? For Mike to never get the chance to prove to himself through word and action that he is the heart? For Will to never get an explanation for why things did get so "weird" between them? It would leave us with one big, nagging question: What was the point of everything Mike has said and done throughout the entire show if his conclusion is that lackluster?

Disregarding Mike for a moment (I know that's incredibly ironic given what the entire point of this is but just bear with me) - how would that be a satisfying conclusion for Will? I mean, Will's s4 arc was basically dedicated to showcasing his struggle with his sexuality and with his love for Mike. We were shown just how deep that love is. We were shown how patient, unselfish, unwavering, and beautiful that love is. So how would it be satisfying for Mike's love for him to not be shown with just as much depth? How would it be satisfying for Mike to just be a one dimensional character whose s5 arc is essentially "break up with girlfriend, wait to find out best friend is in love with him, say he loves him back, then they live happily ever after"? I think Will deserves for his love to be returned with the same intensity at which he gives it. And I think it should be clear to the audience and to Will himself.

Back to Mike!

Mike has been through so much shit. I don't think anyone that is denying that actually believes he hasn't been through shit. Because you'd actually have to watch the show on mute and with your eyes closed to think this kid hasn't had just the worst time. It's so ignorant to act as if this stuff hasn't affected him. There's stuff we've seen but there's stuff we also haven't seen. There are issues he has that date back to his childhood pre-canon. Just like Will, Mike has been a queer kid growing up in 80s smalltown conservative america. Acknowledging the pain he 100% carries because of that is so important. His perspective has been withheld from us, not because it's unimportant, but because it's the final puzzle piece. If we had Mike's perspective in s4, byler wouldn't be a "will they won't they" (even though we all know they will). If we got his perspective in s4, byler would be a "100% certain without a doubt they will". But the thing about his perspective is that it's so much more than just loving Will. It's fear. It's pain. It's insecurity. It's doubt. It's the belief that his happiness just doesn't matter all that much. All of that has to be explored. All of that has to be laid out in the open for us in order for byler endgame to feel earned. Mike's emotional payoff will lead to byler's emotional payoff.

Mike has known he loves Will. In s5 we will see him make a deliberate and active effort to overcome the things keeping him from doing something about it. And then he will do something about it.

And so when it finally happens. When both Mike and Will finally know that their feelings are requited, and when their arcs end with us knowing that they will face whatever life has in store for them together, that will feel earned. That will feel like the logical conclusion for both of them. Not just for Mike. Not just for Will. For both.

And Mike is just as important to that conclusion as Will is.

And one last thing...

Some people are going to talk about Mike more. Some people are going to talk about Will more. Because newsflash, people have preferences. Some people just relate to Mike more, or they find his emotional arc extremely compelling, or they just like him. It isn't an attack on Will or any other character. No one is saying Mike is more important than any other character (I'm sure there are people that say that but they are a vocal minority and they are simply wrong). We are just saying that he is important. If you wanna engage in media analysis, please understand that "main character" or "central character" does not mean "only important character" and "only character that should be analyzed". If you wanna talk about Will and only Will, that's fine. But you don't get to act like people that talk about other characters are doing a disservice to your fave, because that's not how any of this works.

[eww-y-tho]

Okay, fair warning, this is long, so tldr, it's a rant about the "Debling is better" and "Colin should have suffered more" take, so just so you know, you know?

I can accept disliking friends to lovers or thinking they don't have chemistry (even though I don't agree with it and I think the people who say that don't know what chemistry is or means) except this bizarrely widespread Debling take and the "Colin hasn't suffered enough," take because that makes it clear that you weren't paying any attention to the season.

I'm sorry, but Penelope has been through the wringer. Her family only cares about her if she marries and treats her like trash otherwise, makes her feel inferior and incapable of being loved and cherished, and broke down her confidence. She is right when she says the ton considers her a spinster and a laughingstock, and Cressida among other women consistently sabotages her. She's not in a position where she can make demands and her main goal at the beginning of the season is to literally get away from her family.

Her (honestly not best) best friend has abandoned her and linked with Cressida and engages in gossip about her. Obviously, Eloise still cares for her a lot, but Penelope doesn't know that. She's lost hope that the one man who's always treated her well and with respect and actually listens to what she has to say before making a judgement and can speak freely about her deepest thoughts would ever love her back because of one stupid comment.

We know throughout her character arc that Penelope's yearning for love and a passionate romance, especially with Colin, has been a consistent desire for her.

As this is the darkest point in her character arc, the story demands that she deserves the one thing she's asking for: love. A person who will value her and cherish her and make her feel special and sexy and worthy of being with someone.

aka not Lord Debling.

Like, I don't know how you can stand on two feet with this argument because you're literally supporting Portia's opinion. You know, the character that's been insufferable the entire first half of s3 (and presumably the second half).

Colin is right when he says that Pen hardly knows Debling compared to him. Again, it's not about "which one you like better," it's about Penelope's character arc and what she needs to be fulfilled in the plot.

Also, anyone who says Colin hasn't suffered enough, like what??? Yes, Penelope's been rejected so many times it's almost ridiculous, but it's not like Colin wasn't affected by his denial/obliviousness/naivety either. He was depriving himself of the love of his life without even knowing it.

His intrinsic, hopeless romantic nature was beaten out of him with every subsequent season until he succumbed to society's expectations and pretended to be a rake despite his love and respect for the women in his life, and being a people pleaser because of his experiences literally stunted him.

S1 was him being deceived into a romantic relationship with someone who didn't love him and was using him, S2 was just a mess of an identity crisis mixed with a healthy dose of alcoholic beverages. He felt aimless in life and was isolated. His only saving grace was Penelope and her letters, so it's no surprise when Pen stops replying to them Colin freaks out some more.

People literally want to use Colin as a punching bag. His ONLY sin in the story is making the 2x8 comment. And I hate to be that guy but compare that to Anthony, who was at the altar with his love interest's SISTER.

Anyway, yeah, rant over.

[mot-hesbian]

Marina Crane, Nuance, Human Decency, and Differing Opinions

Let's talk about things that might make people mad on the name of addressing important issues

Let's start with some facts

Facts:

The hate Ruby Barker got is inexcusable. She's a human being and deserves to be treated as such. She has no control over her character and her character's actions overall.

Marina is a nuanced character with an interesting and tragic story. You can hate her and acknowledge this.

Marina is a flawed character who does bad things. You can love her and acknowledge this.

You can love or hate her without taking it out on other people or being disgusting about it. Loving her doesn't give you some moral superiority OR justify her actions. Hating her doesn't give you some moral superiority OR edge.

Some of the hate directed her away is because she's black and if you're one of those people you need to do some introspection.

Now, let's get into the opinion portion of this

Personally, I hate Marina. I don't wish a horrible death on her because that's horrible. I wish her circumstances were better. In fact, had her actions been slightly to the left I'd probably like her. My hate towards her also has nothing to do with racism, unlike some people.

I hate her because I've been on the receiving end of her actions. She's emotionally abusive and does not feel the need to apologize for it. She uses actual abuse tactics, many of which I have been the target of.

I see my abusers in her in those moments, outside of those moments I enjoy her story and character. I would have loved to see her play some Lord looking for a match of convenience. Instead I got to see some scenes that are extremely triggering to me. Marina is a traumatized characters, that doesn't give her the right to add to Colin's trauma.

So many of his actions in s2 and s3 are direct results from this, she traumatized him. This pain and hurt doesn't go away easily, I've been trying for 7 years to move on and I'm still a work in progress.

I don't hate her because she got in the way of my ship (I'm a hardcore polin fan), I don't hate her for existing, or for her situation. I hate Marina because of her actions. She had other choices in gentlemen who were close to her age and might look the other way with regards to a child that wasn't their own. Let's not discuss that topic today, I only mention this in regards to her treatment of Colin and how that choice led to it.

Colin was a romantic and felt an attraction to her, she saw that and took advantage. She singled him out, she was desperate and thought the love of her life had deserted her. Part of her draw to him was his family, both connection wise and, likely, in terms of family dynamic.

She love bombed him. It's that simple. The compliments, laughing at jokes she clearly finds unamusing, and the constant attention.

She manipulated him and his feelings, she's good at playing his thoughts and feelings against him. He wants to be seen as a man and taken seriously. What better way than for him to take a wife? In her obviously. She lets him think it's all his idea. He has a hero-complex so she mentions how horrible the Featheringtons are to her. It's calculated. (Again, if she did this to someone who didn't have feelings for her, I'd be cheering for her to get that bag.)

She isolates him from his family. With a tinge of gaslighting regarding his mother's feelings as Violet wouldn't have opposed their marriage if it made Colin happy. She creates this “us against them" mentality to separate him from his family. The Featheringtons are cruel to her and his family does not approve, there is no way this could work.

Does any of this justify hating on people who love her character? No.

Does this justify hating on the actress who played her? Absolutely not, she's not her character.

Until next time 🫡