#i know charlie says this for meta reasons

[tiktaalic]

Did lots of people think Cas was going to die in Despair? Like i know he made the deal w the empty but was there a specific reason people thought that episode would be the one or was it more of just knowing his days were numbered bc of the empty deal? <- guy who hasn’t seen season 15 and is so so interested in the vibes of the spn fandom right before nov 5th

Yes. I would like to preface this with the fact that I was in this space as a hater. There were like five supernatural blogs I would search for by url and backread every day. And they would say. Guys destiel is for real going to happen in despair. And i would think to myself. There’s not going to be destiel in supernatural you stupid slut. I was up to date on the meta I just thought people were letting supernatural Charlie Brown football them. Because many such cases in supernatural. Where it seems to be leading to destiel. And then it doesn’t.

Anyway. The empty deal was made in 14 and then kind of got dropped forever. The only time I can remember it coming up is right afterwards where cas explained to jack how he got him back and then is like don’t worry the trigger is happiness im not dying any time soon. Second time it comes up cas is like Dean you are in a shockingly good mood what’s up with that. And deans like well we got jack back no strings attached that’s a pretty big win. And then cas looks sadly off into the distance.

Anyway x 2. I feel like I remember them releasing the promos like stupid far in advance for despair. Edit to say yeah that’s true they were out in August of 2020 for an episode that aired in November. Castiel telling Dean he loved him was treated as a Known Fact As SOON as despair ads aired. people said. Oh. This is it. Bc the pieces to the ad were billie threatening them. dean crying while facing cas. Billie opening a door (which led to Dean and cas). Then dean on the floor with the handprint. So everyone was like oh clearly this means cas tells Dean he loves him which triggers the deal and does this to save Dean and he dies in front of dean causing dean to cry on the floor. This is doubly proved by the handprint like duh this is the only way a bloody handprint on his shoulder would be narratively significant again. And again this was all treated as fact. This was obviously going to be the course of events based on the trailer. And me. Hater. Went ok well cas isn’t going to confess his love because this is supernatural but the rest adds up I do think he’s going to die in front of dean in this scene. Really anecdotal but I remember seeing people upset on twitter MONTHS before this about misha not being in the finale which was surely speculation but not sure bsded on what. I started paying attention to supernatural again in like. July of 2020 so I can only speak to that. I know Covid made the airing schedule really weird. And 1518 was the last thing they filmed before Covid. For reference these shots are the ones people CORRECTLY concluded destiel from.

[panlight]

I agree with Renee getting worse thru the books. I think Charlie suffers from the same regression. In Twilight he comes off hands-off but loving. He buys Bella a truck, he's taken care of his parents, etc. By Eclipse he's too dumb to make pasta and highfiving Bella's assaulter. Of course many fans have headcanons on WHY. I still hold that Meyer just A. Wanted Bella to be a Super Mature Old Soul, and B. Wanted Bella to be "right" in defying Charlie later on in the books, among other reasons.

Right in Twilight I didn't think Charlie was actually that inept at caring for himself or his household, I just thought Bella was employing the same teenage hyperbole that she used in saying "haha I took over the bills when I was six" or whatever. But then as the books wore on, it was like, oh he literally doesn't know you can't put metal in the microwave???? How did this man take care of himself and his elderly parents??

There's an interesting divide in fandom, I think, between people who look at Bella's relationship with her parents in-universe or out of it. That is, there's a lot of people who really feel for Bella and see in her someone who was the victim of parentification and neglect. They see a child who was forced to grow up too fast to take care of her parents and feel a lot of sympathy for her and imagine how it has informed the choices she makes in the story.

Then there are folks who look at it from an out of universe perspective, which is close to what you're saying here: that SM wanted Bella to be an Old Soul and seem mature and she doesn't really need her parents and that's why things were written the way they are. That whether Renee is a good or bad mother isn't really the point; the point was Bella needed to go to Forks for the story to happen. SM wasn't really interested in exploring parentification or any of that, she just needed a way to make Bella seem more mature than the average teenager so her relationship with an 100-year-old 17-year-old works.

I don't think either one is better or more "right" than the other, and both can be true at the same time! I can only say that I was in the out of universe camp originally; I was just like, it's a YA story, of course the parents have to be kind of useless, and I didn't read much more into it than that. Like yeah Renee not showing up to graduation is weird, but I was like "Bella already visited Renee at the beginning of the book, I see why as a writer SM didn't see a point in More Renee." But I've seen a lot of really thoughtful meta about Bella as a parentified child and how that can explain things like why she can't empathize with Rosalie's desire for children, or Bella's low self-esteem, etc. Certainly I think Midnight Sun takes this more in-universe approach with Renee coming off even worse than she was before and Edward musing about how Bella feels like she has to be useful, has to be a caretake, has to earn her place in a family, etc.

But yeah I think that came later, for both Renee and Charlie, and originally it was just "I need kind of hand-off parents for my YA story" and then letting them be a little bit of comic relief: Charlie's useless cooking, Renee's frantic emails, etc. She meant them to be kind of funny and then over time it got darker.

[briefobservationdreamer]

Ace In The Hole: Discussing Asexual Representation In Hazbin Hotel And The Fandom

Alastor has become one of the most well-known asexual icons in modern media and has been the subject of quite a lot of discussion and discourse amongst fans, and I think there is a lot about this topic that really needs to be said. So, as an aroace, I would like to express some thoughts on how his asexuality is represented in Hazbin Hotel (with some mention of Helluva Boss briefly at the end).

To start with, scenes in the show that address the topic not only explicitly confirm that Alastor is cannonically asexual, but they also heavily imply that he is aromantic as well, and is more specifically on the averse side of those spectrums. To explain my reasoning, I will start with the pivotal scene, since this provides the most explicit information.

It is a very brief 10-second exchange, but there is actually a lot to unpack in just these two lines of dialogue.

Rosie teases him about being asexual by jokingly dismissing the idea of Alastor and Charlie being in a relationship because Charlie would be too young for him, and then giving a more serious reason in Alastor being an "ace in the hole". As Rosie is using this as a reason for why she knows Alastor wouldn't be in a relationship with Charlie, this is definitely a pun made in reference to his sexuality rather than the common use of the phrase, which wouldn't be a logical explanation. The pun, of course, goes right over his head as asexuality wasn't really known in the early 20th century when he was alive and Alastor doesn't tend to keep with the times as a rule. With context, though, Rosie's comment about Charlie being too young for him wasn't just a reference to sex. She was talking about dating. About sex and romance as a package the way most people do when we talk about "being in a relationship."

She has confidently deduced that Alastor is asexual, even without any explicit communication about it from Alastor. It would be extremely unlikely she could have come to that conclusion and ruled out all other possibilities (not having found the right person yet, currently being more invested in other aspects of his life, high relationship standards etc) if Alastor had confused the matter for them both in having much of an interest in finding a partner of any kind throughout their history, even if it was just a result of ingrained societal expectations. If Alastor had been on the favourable end of even one of those spectrums, it's extremely unlikely he would have been able to articulate and express his experiences clearly enough for it to be distinguishable from allosexuality and alloromanticism without being educated on the subject, which he isn’t. Rosie has also clearly known him for a very long time, almost certainly decades, which would be enough time to call other possibilities into question. And if Rosie - a proclaimed expert on the subject and a close personal associate of Alastor's - hasn't seen him express much of an interest in the decades she's known him, then it is extremely unlikely that he has an interest in it or ever will.

This is combined with the fact that, while Alastor seems to generally prefer the company of women to men, he has never shown attraction towards anyone and has expressed only disinterest or revulsion on all three occasions the subject is directly brought up to him (though the tone-deaf commercial he made in episode 1 indicates he's willing to make an occasional joke about sex if he thinks the comedic payoff is worth it, which I think is a very nice touch). They don't mean much individually, but all together with the pivotal scene, they do create a bit of a consistent pattern.

There is meta evidence for this as well. Amir Talai and others have also stated he is aroace, and while that has since been retracted to say he has only canonically been confirmed asexual, Vivzie has also stated that she doesn't want to reveal Alastor's romantic orientation so everyone can have fun shipping whoever they want and that it ultimately isn't important in the show, which is telling in itself. Not only is Alastor's canon romantic orientation the only one not explicitly revealed, but what other romantic orientation could be considered problematic for shipping besides a complete lack of romantic attraction? If Alastor really was romantically inclined, there would be no issue with being open about it, and I am absolutely positive that Vivzie would have said so by now.

So no. Alastor is not attracted to anyone and is not going to get together with anyone in the show. The two main defences that I've seen - "aro/ace people can still date/have sex" and "it was never confirmed he was aromantic" - do not really hold water in this case.

Now as for the representation itself. He isn't defined by his asexuality, and the show never directly attributed his more unsavoury traits to it, though care does need to be taken about the "doesn't love anyone because he only loves himself" trope. I believe Vivzie has insinuated something like that at some point, which would certainly be questionable. I personally don't mind the show's one ace character being a villain in this case, given the setting though. Many characters in the show are portrayed negatively in Hell, regardless of their sexuality, and conversely it could even be considered infantilising to have the one asexual character also be one of the few good characters in the show. Again, the show hasn't really made that correlation.

He is too fully-developed and integral to the plot to be considered a token character. He defies being an emotionless robot/socially awkward nerd stereotype by instead being a passionate, flamboyant, charismatic man who, despite being a ruthless serial killer and a cannibal, still seems to be capable of feeling affection for others and forming close friendships. It is actually refreshing to see. Amir said it best when he said "you don't have to fuck to be fab", and I think Alastor could be good villainous ace representation if...

1. His asexuality and aromanticism is aknowledged just a little more in the show itself so there is no room for ambiguity. So far the only confirmation we've had is a quick and subtle joke which, while appreciated, could easily go over the heads of people who don't know what asexuality is, just as it did for Alastor. Vivzie might be fond of dropping lore on livestreams and social media, but not everyone is going to know what is said by creators outside of the show, nor should they be expected to in order to judge Hazbin Hotel as a show for its own merits.

2. He continues to have a capacity for affection and friendship, and more negative traits such as narcissism and a lack of empathy aren't attributed to him being aroace. I think this is both important for giving him depth as a character and essential for avoiding harmful stereotypes. The idea that relationship averse aroaces aren't as capable of having profoundly loving relationships and will end up alone, and that people are boring or incomplete without a sexual or romantic partner is already a tired and insulting cliché that reinforces allonormativity/amatonormativity and it really needs to go.

Does that mean it is wrong to ship him? Well, not necessarily, though just because Vivzie said we could ship anyone doesn't automatically make it right. Personally, I don't like shipping in general, and I dislike Alastor ships on the basis of him being aroace, the fact that I think pretty much all of his relationships as portrayed in the show would be problematic as a romance regardless of his orientation, and my general preference for canon compliance when it comes to fan content. However, I recognise that is my personal preference and can tolerate a certain amount of it in moderation. It isn't necessarily wrong to ship Alastor - and I am certainly never going to begrudge a fellow aro/ace exploring their identity on the spectrum using cartoons as an outlet with the rare piece of rep we have to share when reps currently have the whole spectrum on their shoulders - as long as distinctions are made between fanon and canon, and that what has been established in canon is given respect.

Sadly, this hasn't always been the case and I can feel very uncomfortable with just how much he has been shipped and sexualised by some fans, and in a way that is blatantly disrespectful and out of character. After all, while also not "wrong" exactly, it wouldn't be ideal to ship a gay character in a heterosexual relationship, especially if the excuse that they haven't been confirmed to be attracted to the opposite sex is used just to make homosexuality more palatable. That would mean changing an innate and immutable part of them to the extent that they would no longer be considered the same person, denying representation. Why is it any different here?

The way the creators have handled it has also been giving mixed messages (with merch for example), and unfortunately, Vivzie's refusal to stand by his romantic orientation to allow shipping hasn't helped the situation. I understand wanting to avoid the bullying and vitriol that can come with shipping wars and that there will be shipping and upset fans regardless of what the creators do, but that doesn't make it potentially less questionable or hurtful for aroace people who want good representation, which should be the bigger priority. Having asexual and aromantic people being represented by an icon who is being used as queerbait by the creators and erased to appease toxic fans and prioritise shipping would simply not be a good look, however unintentional or well-intentioned. Care has to be taken by everyone to avoid that. Yes, Alastor is a fictional character, but a person's attitude towards him can still potentially reflect their attitude towards real aroace people.

Remember, "aro/ace people can still date/have sex" is a reminder that asexuality and aromanticism are spectrums, not an excuse to justify erasure in disregarding a character's canon asexuality/aromanticism and projecting allosexuality/alloromanticism onto them. There is so little representation already. We don't need what little we have being taken away.

In that vain, I would appreciate it if Alastor's asexuality and aromanticism gets acknowledged a little more in the show. Use characters like Angel Dust and Rosie, who are more clued in to LGBTQ identities. Rosie could hint at her reasoning for suspecting Alastor is aroace or usher away some Cannibal Town admirers. We're probably not going to see Angel Dust hitting on Alastor again, but those are the only two scenes they've directly interacted with one another.

Perhaps the other two hellaverse aces from Helluva Boss could be somewhere else on the spectrum. Alastor is a sex repulsed aroace. Mammon could be sex favourable, considering he has no problem selling sex robots of his mascots. Octavia could be greysexual or demisexual, be more neutral about sex but could still want to find love at some point. Imagine the Goetia family trying to arrange a marriage for her. And what about more unusual dynamics, like one-sided ships or QPRs? Just some ideas, if only for fanfiction. They are both big spectrums. Let's have fun exploring them.

[onesidedradiostatic]

A trembling thought hit me like a freight train, what if the reason the crew went back on saying Al in aro is because he and Vox actually did date?

And then Vox wanted more and they broke up?

Like, I just have a nagging fear that that might come up in season 2 and I really don't know how to feel about it

Like on one hand it should make it easy to clarify that, yes, Alastor really is aro for he gave it a try and found it really wasn't for him

But on the other, what if the crew (or whoever is in charge) is all, "Well he dated once so he can't be aro, therefore he is only ace"

I've seen these kind of conspiracy theories before where people think there's some planned surprise romance plot for alastor and that's why they don't want to confirm him as aro and well.

I disagree.

for in-text, meta, and my own reasons. lemme go through it one by one.

in-text reasons

if we ignore ANY sort of word of god, statements from staff and whatnot, the only thing we have is the rosie dialogue. I've talked about it before, although she only says "ace in the hole", the context in which this is said is the idea of alastor dating charlie, this is a romantic context, and rosie says she's joking because she knows he wouldn't do it because he's an (aro)ace in the hole. the joke here is that alastor brought a girl with him and she's jokingly assuming they're dating (unless we're really thinking she jumped to joking about them fucking). so she KNOWS he wouldn't date and that's the thing, the only way I could see vox and alastor having previously dated and still have rosie say this is if them dating and alastor realising he's uninterested is specifically what got rosie to realise alastor wouldn't do that. otherwise no, it wouldn't make sense to me that alastor would've dated when rosie said this.

meta reasons

old faustisse streams. I'm not a pre-series fan but I've done my research. sure, there's info they've said before that's been deconfirmed but that's because some info from them are stuff they only say they "think" and not stuff that they 100% confirmed with vivzie, just opinions based on what they know about the characters. alastor's aroaceness is different though, faustisse was VERY forward that alastor is AROace and they SPECIFIED vivzie did not want to canonise it because of shipping wars and all that, so I'm fairly sure it's not because of some surprise alastor romance plot. faustisse may not be a 100% reliable source since this is from years ago now but I will say alastor being aroace is about as canon as husk being pansexual. both of this info is from faustisse. arguably alastor being aroace is even more canon than husk being pan because of the rosie dialogue. you can read the transcript of one of the old streams here. don't take this as a necessary reflection of my take on alastor shipping, no, I don't like reciprocated romantic alastor ships. at all. but I also definitely don't think harassment is okay. shippers will exist, and nothing you say will stop them so it's best not to waste your energy shouting at them.

my opinion

first let me say, I DEFINITELY don't like vivzie's choice to not confirm it. I understand yes people can be very aggressive in shipping wars, I understand harassment happens. but. IT IS HAPPENING REGARDLESS. ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING REGARDLESS. it's just made WORSE by no solid statement on him being aromantic because then there's people who will argue it's not canon. confirming alastor as aromantic will not stop the shippers from shipping or having fun, this is like saying confirming angel dust as gay prevents angel dust x women shippers from having fun. they will exist regardless. confirming alastor as aromantic WILL NOT CHANGE THIS, all it will do is ASSURE aromantic people that they are being represented. all it will do is stop people from saying "alastor is ace not aro!" and acting like alastor being aro is an obstacle to their shipping.

that aside, I'll talk about my opinion on the idea of alastor having dated vox in canon. now, okay, I don't mind the idea if it's done in a very clearly aromantic way and it was just something alastor tried out but didn't like. I would even like it if it was done properly! but I also don't trust vivzie to write an aromantic character in a romantic relationship, so I'd rather it not happen in canon. and I do think vivzie is more likely to not take the risk of trying to write an aro character in a relationship anyways (and if she did I would definitely hope she does lots of research).

also it doesn't really make sense to me why he would try dating with vox instead of like. a woman. like rosie or mimzy. and I don't mean this cause of heteronormative reasons I mean this because alastor is clearly more comfortable with women, it just makes more sense to me that if he were to try out dating it would be with a woman. like... why vox? the only reason I could see it happening is vox is the only friend who tried to confess to alastor and so he decided to try it out cause he was a friend but then didn't like it. that isn't to say I wouldn't enjoy reading about this in fanfics or anything cause I probably would LMAO it's an interesting concept, but doesn't really make much sense to me and I'm not sure if I trust the allo writers to do it in canon.

that's all I have to say.

*mic drop*

[rey-jake-therapist]

Can you explain this why Sauron liked to touch Galadriel like we saw in 1×08 ep. And with poor Mirdania, he touched her too (well we know the reason why, but still his touchy touchy actions is not getting in my head) But he himself makes grim faces whenever someone touches him. And one more thing, he was openly flirting with her every place they went like he made deep eye contact with her without a single blink and was always standing close to her and he had this soft yet deep voice as Halbrand. But Galadriel (on the other hand being attracted to him) never touched him, only lifted her hand for a handshake. What were they hiding & showing by their confusing actions??

I know, weird, right ? And the way he behaves, the obvious flirt ?! Where does this sudden familiarity come from ? What did we miss ? 👀

He was flirtatious before, but not like this. And he indeed never touched her unprompted. I'll soon publish a meta I started about Sauron and the way he touches/doesn't like to be touched. He never touches gratuitously.

It happens after Galadriel starts finding him sus (because of what Celebrimbor said about a "power over flesh", words he attributes to Sauron), so I suspect there's a connection. Sauron knows Galadriel's mind. I wouldn't be surprised if he felt a shift in her behavior towards him, and realized she would soon learn the truth about him. Maybe this touch was meant to be reassuring. But there's the flirt too, he's doubling down on the seduction here. It can't be for nothing. I think he had decided to tell her the truth at that point ; Charlie said Sauron thought Galadriel was ready to hear it, and that even if she hadn't provoked him, he would have told her soon, anyway.

It's speculated that it may indicate that something happened off screen between them (*cough* a kiss or more *cough*). I don't think so, personally, because she seems equally surprised by this sudden familiarity and not necessarily pleased (she has this "you're sus af, dude" look, imho), but maybe I interpret her reaction all wrong. Idk, really.

As for Galadriel, she has no problem touching her friends platonically, nor being touched by them (Elrond's forehead touch 🥰). Her face says "wtf" when Elrond kisses her on the lips, but it was a trick to give her the pin so, all's fine between them. When it comes to Saurbrand indeed, she only touches him once (except for their hand shakes), when he's wounded : she touches his chest (very unnecessarily if you ask me, but I get it girl), and the way he moans in reaction... Is it pain ? Pleasure ? Both? 😅 It's up to the viewer to decide. He certainly doesn't look half as bothered as when anybody else has the guts to touch him without his permission, anyway.

I take this as another proof that she's attracted by him/loved him very unplatonically. See, she's not supposed to feel that way about him, so she literally keeps him at arm's distance, because who knows what could happen if she let herself go too much, dum dum dum...

[charmac]

What are the “other ideas” about why the podcast ended. I thought they originally stopped in solidarity with the strike and just never went back. I didn’t know there was more speculation. I hope they bring it back Sunday. (Unrealistic as it may be.)

Sorry, the strike is 100% why the Podcast stopped.

I mean to say they’ve never actually given a solid/coherent/official announcement as to why it never came back. For a long time RCG continued to play the “yeah we’re trying to bring it back soon,” game to fans when they asked, only for Glenn to reveal the studio is gone and they don’t have any plans to continue on a *different* podcast.

The assumption and eventual catch-all line from Charlie and Glenn is that it got too hard to do logistically with scheduling issues, which I’m sure is pretty fairly true… all I mean to say is there’s room for speculation as to why it’s not coming back because they never gave an official announcement… and some people have been doing that...

My favourite one (which is what I was thinking of because I am trying *desperately* to find it) is an Instagram comment along the lines of claiming “the real reason the Podcast ended is because Rob and Kaitlin are in a polyamorous relationship with Glenn (the show has meta which hints at this) and they’re going through something right now.” Awesome. Fantastic. A+ speculation as to why the Podcast ended. (Pls does anyone have this screenshot)

There’s other less unhinged theories that have gone around, i.e. it’s not scheduling issues but just that they got bored or burned out being around each other so much at one time… things like that

Also I’m assuming you mean “someday” and not Sunday lmao..unless there’s something major on Sunday I don’t know about that would warrant the podcast’s return.. like Glenn Howerton in Minecraft Sunday.. that is a good reason

[aspoonofsugar]

what do you think of Cherrisnake? How do you the relationship will forward in season 2 now that sir pentious is in heaven and Cherri Bomb is still in hell?

What do you think of Huskerdust? What do you think the relationship is gonna be like coming forward season 2?

Hi!

I am answering your two asks together because I think Cherrisnake and Huskerdusk may work very well as foils!

First of all, I like both ships, as I like all the canon/set up ships in hazbin and helluva :)

When it comes to Hazbin Hotel specifically, I think there are four major ships (so far):

Chaggie

Huskerdusk

Lucilith

Cherrisnake

Chaggie is obviously at the heart of the story, as Charlie is the protagonist, Vaggie the deuteragonist and their bond comments their respective developments. Angel is set up as the tritragonist so far, so obviously his ship is pretty important, as well. Lucifer and Lilith are not protagonists, but their love story is kind of the beginning of the whole conflict and they are meant to foil Chaggie, so they are gonna be important. Cherrisnake is then probably going to comment on Huskerdust specifically and to tie into the main theme of the story. Specifically, loves saves:

You're gonna fight without gloves And when that push comes to shove Yeah, you just might rise above, long as you're out for love

In general, I like that these ships are set up to all have different dynamics:

Chaggie are already a couple, but they have unhealthy aspects they need to work through

Huskerdusk are a slowburn, so we are gonna see them slowly develop feelings for each other

Lucilith are on a break, so I think we are gonna explore their problems and see them rekindle their relationship

Cherrisnake seem so far to parody some very common tropes, like enemies to lovers and star-crossed lovers, as now Cherry is in Hell and Pentious is in Heaven

After this intro, I am gonna focus on the two specific ships.

HUSKERDUSK

I agree with what @hamliet said in her meta. I think that their relationship started with Husk teaching Angel to accept he is a loser:

We're both losers, baby We're losers, it's okay to be a Coked-up, dick-suckin' ho? Baby, that's fine by me I'm a loser, honey A schmoozer and a dummy But at least I know I'm not alone You're a loser Just like me

But as the story goes on, Angel will teach Husk they can become winners. In other words, they can find redemption:

Did I hear you imply That they don't deserve death? Are they Winners? Are they Sinners? 'Cause it's cut and dry

So far, Angel has had more focus than Husk and is the one who has made more progress in his arc. Husk instead has acted as the good wise old man, but has made no personal progress and is behaving as if he accepts he can't get better. That is because both him and Angel are trapped in a contract with another demon:

It is probable that Angel is soon going to free himself, which might inspire Husk to try doing the same, as well. Or at least to try and stand up to Alastor more, especially if Alastor's actions are going to put Husk's new found family in danger (and they will). That said, both Angel and especially Husk are gonna screw up before they can be together :''')

Anyway, I like them. They are opposites. Angel is rather young, fully expresses his own sexuality to the point he uses sex for self-harm and he is heart. Husk is older, he is reserved when it comes to sexual stuff and he is mind.

CHERRISNAKE

I don't have strong predictions about the ship for the simple reason that the relationship has been explored less than others. In particular, Cherri has appeared very little and her arc has just been set up and still needs to happen. That said, I think they are gonna foil Huskerdusk simply because both Pentious and Cherri are foils of Angel.

Both Pentious and Angel are initially linked to the Vees and are the first two demons who join the hotel. Not only that, but they are opposites in the reason they join. Pentious says he is repentant (lol), but really wants to spy on Alastor. Angel instead wants to change deep down, but hides it and says he joins to have a home for free. Charlie also believes in their eventual redemption, but she messes up when it comes to why and when :''') Initially, she thinks Pentious is gonna redeem himself first and doesn't realize he is faking his interest in the hotel. Then, she argues in Heaven that Angel is making the most progress... except that Pentious is really the first to find redemption... Basically they are characters used to highlight how little Charlie understands redemption, despite her passion about it.

Both Cherri and Angel are instead addicted and prisoners of their self-destructive behaviors. Angel is dependent on drugs and trapped in an abusive relationship with Val. Cherri is instead probably a survivor to a relationship (maybe abusive???) that ended up pretty badly. Let's just say I don't think it is by chance that when Angel invites her at the hotel she insists she is fine... only to then immediately say she is gonna have sex with a stranger:

Angel Dust: There's room for everyone, and ya know… you could come crash with us too. Cherri: Okay, look, Angie, I'm glad this hotel shit is workin' for you, but you know me, bitch, I'm doin' just fine! In fact, I'm gonna fuck the next guy I see, okay? But if you need me, you know where to find me, yeah? Sir Pentious: *panting* Is Cherri still here? [Cherri walks into the sex room with another demon.] Dammit!

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing bad with casual sex, but the set up is about Cherri refusing to face her own demons, while having fun in superficial relationship. This is highlighted even more by Pentious instead trying to court her the whole evening only to be ignored in the end.

The set-up and endgame is clear... Cherri will rediscover love and a healthy bond through Pentious. However, she will first have to work on herself at the hotel to reach him. Meanwhile, Pentious will need to face himself in Heaven, without his new-found support system (which is very interesting). As a matter of fact Pentious has the potential to be a subversion/deconstruction of the redemption through death trope. Usually the redemption through death goes like this:

A character is evil, but eventually has a change of heart

They do a good deed, but die while doing so

If the story is at least decent, the sacrifice will accomplish something big and probably help the protagonist win in some way

Pentious's death is a parody of this, as he marches to risk his life and defeat Adam, but is killed without accomplishing anything and in an anti-climatic way. Except that it was his intention that mattered, so he is still redeemed. That said, here comes the thing with redemption through death... if used poorly it is a cheap way to avoid letting a character deal with the consequences of his actions. Basically they die before they can really change and be tested through their change... So, here comes the question: is Pentious redemption through death enough for him to have fully overcome the flaws that landed him into hell? Imo nope, obviously. So, he will have to keep on working on himself even in Heaven and may realize redemption is an ongoing process.

In short, if Huskerdusk is mostly about redemption as way to feel better about yourself and to find freedom again. I think that for Cherrisnake redemption might be having to work on yourself day after day until you are worthy and ready to start a happy relationship.

These are my thoughts on the two ships. Thank you for the asks!

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Not sure if this is a pointless question, but I read your “what if Charlie time travelled from the end of BD2 to the start of Twilight” meta, and I propose a vaguely similar scenario:

The year before Bella comes to live in Forks, Charlie gets into bird watching. Really into bird watching. Turns out there’s a rare species of bird living in his garden, so he sets up high-quality cameras in order to capture images of this bird.

Charlie loves birds so much now.

Bella comes to live with him, all is ok, until the motion sensors on his (well hidden) cameras start going off frequently at night, and Charlie can’t for the life of him figure out why. Fear not, he can slow down the footage he captures! Maybe the bird lives in his roof now, and–

Hmm. That looks suspiciously like Edward Cullen’s face (we’re talking very, very high quality cameras here). Pfft, don’t be ridiculous Charlie, of course it’s no–

Oh, oh yep. It’s Ed. Moving very quickly towards what looks like Bella’s bedroom every night. Instead of denying it, Charlie is 100% convinced he’s right on this (he is).

What does he do?

Anon's referring to this post.

Caveat

I sigh as I write this but anon, sadly, this would never happen. First, Edward enters at night, has low/no body heat, and there weren't any automated lighting systems and if there were he probably would have moved faster or scrammed.

A vampire's natural speed is such he'd be a blip on a camera, likely not captured at all depending on the frame rate, and in dim lighting he'd be barely visible and even if Charlie's gone all out for some reason with infared Edward wouldn't pick up on it without giving off heat.

Edward's more likely to get caught because of Bella's window hinges, which notably squeaked when he first snuck in, but he uh... greased... those...

Edward's getting caught when Bella fesses up (which was never).

What Does He Do?

Alright, Edward gets caught on camera.

I'm going to assume this is before Edward confessed to Bella that he'd been doing this, as he'd been doing this for quite a while before he fessed up to her.

Which means Edward hasn't introduced himself as boyfriend, Charlie has no idea that Bella and Edward interact much if at all, Bella for that matter doesn't know either as she's been sighing from afar and having emotional whiplash from Edward's push and pull technique of acting as if he's very intrigued and then ignoring her for weeks straight the next second.

Charlie at first wonders if he's hallucinating, because what the fuck, this kid is moving crazy fast around their house (he's there for only one frame as the frame rate's too slow to fully catch his movement) and... int he middle of the night like this and then he just leaves at daybreak? What is he, Dracula?

Charlie, not being highly technical (canonically the Swans are not the most compute friendly family/reminiscent of the times when personal computers weren't everywhere yet necessarily) might wonder if he's been hacked by some local who has beef with the Cullens. It's possible, he supposes, he doesn't know how hacking works but this is also something easy to check and put a stop to.

Charlie goes to visit Dr. Cullen, shows him the video, and says, "Hey, can you confirm whether this is happening and get your son to knock it off if it is?" Charlie's not going to press charges, this is stupid kid bullshit (as it just looks like Edward's running around I imagine and I doubt he has cameras that capture Edward actually going into Bella's room), but he needs to stop this.

Carlisle has a talk with Edward in which Edward is mortified, mortified beyond imagining, and tries to explain to Carlisle just what he's doing running around the Swan household at night and getting caught on camera. He tries to explain that he's deeply worried about Bella, she might die in the middle of the night because of spiders, but it... doesn't sound... good...

Edward does, I imagine, come off as an anxious person in love who isn't sure how to handle his feelings/isn't quite mature enough to admit Bella's need for privacy/that Edward can't control every aspect of her life nor should he. I imagine Carlisle and Edward have a good long talk about this, Carlisle thinks everything is resolved, and Edward immediately returns to breaking into the Swan house.

He just destroys Charlie's security system first.

The mystery of who keeps breaking Charlie's cameras (and Charlie does suspect Edward because of this except... how the hell is he doing it?) is resolved to Bella later as canon progresses. She finds it funny and romantic. Silly old dad had no idea a vampire in love with her was breaking into her bedroom.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Incredibly unpopular opinion, but up until 1x05 what exactly was abusive within Loustat? People claim Lestat isolated Louis from his family, that’s objectively untrue. They say Lestat was a manipulator, well Louis was too.

They had some arguments, some couples have those. No lines were crossed until 1x05, so you can’t say Louis’s actions were reactive abuse.

Lestat shoved Claudia once in 1x05 and then she was gone for 7 years, abuse is a pattern of behavior. Louis and Lestat had a fight that spiraled out of control and they did things they shouldn’t have. That still doesn’t make it abusive.

*sighs* So... just a few notes, and this is definitely not exhaustive, nor going into this too deep.

I think it's not clear cut.

After ep5 a lot of the shown behavior was redefined as abusive I think. Lestat not having his temper under control at times. Lestat's mess with Antoinette, the soldiers and trying to get Louis to feed didn't help either. The dismissive attitude at times, the (willful) ignorance to Louis' problems. There are a lot of forms of abuse, and their relationship isn't exactly healthy, no matter how much they love each other. A lot shifted with his treatment of Claudia, his holding her by the throat, and making her watch Charlie burn.

Things took on a different meaning with the fight in episode 5 since that was framed as DV in s1. Mandatory disclaimer: I do not say that Louis wasn't hurt by Lestat - I do believe that is now very clear... just that what we were shown something in 1x05 and now in 2x07 we were shown more and this "more" making it clear... that this is also not clear cut.

It's all a mess.

Generally spoken I think that the fandom wanted to assign a moral high ground and "good and bad" to something that was impossible to define as such - and at the same time the show definitely made its meta and social commentary, which reflected then. And more often than not that in-universe story was mixed with the meta commentary.

Of course the show itself then went and dug its proverbial heels in wrt the abuse in the last episodes - seemingly confirming the shift in perception... for reasons.

Because that is the picture that was supposed to be painted then.

So I'm not sure if Loustat was abusive before that shift. Louis definitely held his ground, imho. The tendrils of possibilities were always there I think, and we were supposed to notice after the shift.

But this is also part of the tale....

And as such - I think it is impossible to fully evaluate now.

Because I think the tale will break again next episode. And I think the full arc will only be complete after s3. Or even later, we'll see.

We know already that we have only had an edited tale as of now... and that has to be kept in mind, imho.

[anon-402]

I know I’m just in the minority, but I’m really, really scared of how the QSMP is progressing. From a ‘meta’ standpoint, I’m pretty sure nothing actually bad is going to happen. Killing the eggs for plot reasons would feel too cheap and would be met by discontent from fans (kinda like Pomme’s dead and Chayanne & Tallulah’s), so it’s very unlikely. The CC’s have all said how the members feel like a real family and how much they love the server and want to keep playing, so they may take a break for a while but will return in the end (I’m pretty sure Quackity is not gonna have permanent deaths like he wanted before anymore lol).

But what really bothers me is the possibility of not having any of those fun-silly moments that were so characteristic of the server.

I’m okay with angst. I think Forever’s arc was great. I loved it. The independence kidnapping of Phil was also cool to watch. So was Charlie’s little thing with the codes and Juanaflippa. But two months (and probably more than that) is just too much for me. It becomes dull and uninteresting.

The whole reason why I stopped watching that other SMP even though I loved it was because of how tiresome it became. How everyone was trying to be “serious” all the time. How they wanted to say one-liners to sound cool for the animatics. How it erased almost all improv and replaced it with scripts.

I know the QSMP is different, but I’m just getting tired of all the CC trying to sneak ‘angsty talk’ into every-day streams just to get a reaction from the chat. It makes me want to roll my eyes. I want to have fun and laugh. That’s why I’ve been watching this server since the beginning. And that’s why it makes me so sad that the angst thing will probably keep going for a while.

[anachronistic-falsehood]

EPISODE 21 TRIVIA:

- CROP TOP KARATE KID

- "ashe is an edgy kid thats mad at his dad, but when you tried to get him arrested i really didnt know how he would respond to that"

- "wavelength has a +10 to deception." "YEAH, AND THAT SHOULD BE A RED FLAG"

- THE CHOICE THIS EPISODE. to go with either tide or mark. it was flipped! they went with mark bc in a meta way they thought that would be the most exciting/dangerous and going with tide wouldve been the safe route. this is not the case if they wouldve gone with tide something crazy wouldve happened !!! mark was the safe option. hehe

- now theyre all disappointed they didnt go with tide:

grizzly: "what happened, charlie? you were so set on going with tide at first"

charlie: "i KNOW!! because he was THERE IN THE ROOM WITH US and hes TIDE and hes my... FOSTER DAD!"

- grizzly: dakota would always go with tide no hesitation. the only reason he didnt is because william said otherwise and he trusts william (<< im literally always so fucking crazy every time he says something ljke this)

- LOTS OF WILLIAM CRUMBS THIS EPISODE. i havent actually relistened to it yet and charlie is being really vague about what they are so i dont remember but. apparently there were a lot of little conversation moments that were dropped in here that allude to wiwi backstory

- "mark is a bitch" << theyre so fucking mean to him in the rolleds all the tjme. free my man

- "ashe is really mad at him right now but if he lost mark he wouldnt have any family left" HEY YAKKO???? hey yakko im at work rn dont do this to me .

- condi responds to this immediately with "welcome to the no family club, me and dakota are already here" guys please

- chorus of "i love tide"s . these kids have a favorite divorced father fr. sorry. no im not

- AND THUS BEGINS THE INFAMOUS LIZARD DISCUSSION. FORGOT THIS STARTED HERE. OKAY. im so mad this happens almost entirely in rolleds because most people miss it and the payoff is SO fucking funny. theyre discussing power levels. and in the m&m handbook it gives like. template enemy statblocks and some of those are animals and for whatever reason theres just a WHOLE PAGE of this that are various kinds of lizards and they all find this so funny. bc pd at this point is power level 6. the first thing listed on that page is an alligator..... which is power level 7. "we are not even strong enough to defeat an alligator at this point, we cant even go to florida safely" "dont worry tide we'll come save you from your inevitable offscreen death because we didnt come with you and instead went with asshole mark" (bizly, in tide voice:) "dont worry, just bring 4 alligators with you" THIS GOES ON. FOR A WHILE. ITS REALLT FUNNY. this continues to be a topic of conversation for ljke the next 3 rolleds so prepare for more lizard power level discussion

- they start talking about tides powers and apparently they thought he could breathe underwater and talk to fish but bizly describes him as "more like a water bender than aquaman"

- grizzly said this was lame bc he thought it was the other way around but then charlie was like "listen, we already have aquaman on just roll with it and its gillion tidestrider" this is not relevant at all but i have to include every time gillion is mentioned outside of riptide bc i hear his name and my ears perk up like a dog

- anyway. CONCLUSION to that is that tide cannot talk to fish but it is unconfirmed whether or not he can breathe underwater. which i think is neat :]

- "do you think people let le frog rob them because they feel bad for him" "do you think le frog gets hired for childrens birthday parties"

WAVELENGTH HAS A PLUS 10 TO DECEPTION. YEAH. BIT OF A RED FLAG THERE. JUST A BIT

NOOO they could have gone with tide and had exciting times but instead they had 2 babysit mark the depressed widowed dad </3 thats ok tho i love when they have to babysit this grown ass man. i love the pd + mark winters shenanigans

"ashe is really mad at him right now but if he lost mark he wouldnt have any family left" WHAT IF I EXPLODED??? RIGHT HERE AND NOW???? HELLO

the lizards..... i an beginning 2 understand why overlord's reveal was so fucking funny. it was funny without context but the context is funnier

MAC GOING CRAZY ABOUT ANY MENTION OF GILLION TIDESTRIDER (A SEA THEMED CHARACTER). FORK FOUND IN KITCHEN!!!! (<<said very affectionately)

i like 2 think le frog gets hired for birthday parties <3 i love le frog. le frog i love u. favourite pd character right here. le frog u are everything 2 me <3

[loustat-0]

Hello, hello it's me 👋🏽

Okay so, there's something you mentioned about Claudia on this post here:

(Sorry, for some reason it's actually not letting me add the post link. So maybe if you want you can add it in your "answer" post so others can check that out as well)

I can quote you though: "I also believe Claudia has the mind gift which effected the process" In reference to ep 5 -- we all know what scene.

I wanted to ask you, can you expand on what you meant in saying you think she has the "mind gift" AND how did it effect the process, or why do you think it did?

-- One of the reasons why I had such a strong reaction to that statement, is because while it's possible that I may be living under a rock about it. I have yet to see anyone else even mention it. And there's a very specific scene in the show that always stumps me, and I always considered something along those lines may be possible. But I just haven't seen literally anyone else talk about it. So I've just kept it to myself. So I'd love to know what your meta, or theory or analysis is on this --

Okay so first of all Claudia can block Louis out of her head and I think a young vampire fledgling who is 19 years old can't do that . Louis himself wasn't able to do that even though he was older than Claudia .

When Claudia goes out on a date with Charlie , charlie stated that he can't do it with Claudia because she looked so young but Claudia convinced him otherwise & it looked intense she wasn't being a cute girl on her first date she wanted charlie & she got him to do it with her . Either charlie was so attracted to her that didn't mind the age 😬 or Claudia used some mind gift on him . I think she didn't know if it's a power or not yet . At that point she just did it anyway.

But In Ep 5 when she came back to the house to take Louis I think she knew she had the power she didn't know what it was but she knew she could use it on Louis or even Lestat . I think if she wants to use it intentionally to get something she would do it very well . She came in & created a situation in which the argument started first between herself & Lestat & then she got Louis involved . She damn well knew Louis is Lestat's trigger point she damn well knew Louis wouldn't leave Lestat without seeing him actually hurt him or Claudia she damn well knew Lestat wouldn't let go of Louis easily . Go back & look at how Claudia is talking to Louis in his head in comparison to how she said some stuff louder , her eyes get bigger & more determined & angry while she's talking to Louis in his head . And when Lestat said read her Louis she changed the subject completely on Lestat's insecurities instead of her own . Which eventually blocked Louis to not be able to read her at that moment . And then she gave the last shot : let's be vampires with vampires worthy of your love . As if I'm the only one who is worthy of your love not Lestat . And Lestat couldn't do anything even when he yelled as if he was trying to take his mind out of control of Claudia's mind but he couldn't .

When Claudia went to the pharmacy she wanted a drug which was very dangerous & forbidden especially if you're a 14 year old kid . She wrote on a piece of paper & the pharmacist just gave it to her 😯

Both in the books & on the show She convinced Louis to do something he didn't like to do . She made him believe he wanted to kill Lestat while Louis didn't want that & if he did , he wanted to do it for Claudia . Louis hurts Lestat just to protect Claudia . After Louis killed Lestat on the show he became hateful of Claudia for awhile and Daniel called it out & we saw how Louis pushed Claudia to the wall & also in one of Jacob's recent interviews about S2 he mentioned that they're having problems . In the book when Louie took Lestat to the swamp he started to actually understand who he had killed it's the same on the show Louis realized what actually happened after Lestat was dead . As if he was under some kinda influence to that . In the book when Claudia was slitting Lestat's throat Louis wanted to jump in but Claudia yelled at him to stay away & do nothing so again some kinda mind gift I sense here & there .

Most importantly , in the recent trailer Armand who is the master of mind gift himself told Louis that she's good at shielding her thoughts & that's coming from Armand so he might have sensed something too . And I personally think even in the book Armand noticed that & besides wanting Louis to himself he killed her off Bc she would have been a threat to herself & Louis & himself & others .

[glsneeg-enthusiast]

both. i want both.

pleahs

cannibalism and gay sex

so franks fr a corpse right just under the filter i hope you know that. and he was canonically friends with sneeg and its. implied. theyre in love. if you just watch the show. and the gay sex is funny haha unless you think about it and how mlm couples are always portrayed in media. like brokeback mountain for example (praying youve watched it) was turned into a big fucking joke about the characters constantly having sex when thats not at all what it was about and im using that as reference. gay men are always portrayed/watered down to three tropes (constantly having sex, gay because its funny, or guy thats "straight") and thats what showfalls all about. and clearly austin represents the last one and sneeg and frank were the second but theyre also the ones that have sex jokes centered around them so you can only Assume right. anyway sneeg still sees frank as The Real Guy so whats stopping him from doing things youd normally do with your boyfriend yknow. and theres also like. sex holiness metaphor but thats a whole nother thing and idk if youre deep into the rc thoughts like that

and i have like a whole thing about the cannibalism that ive sent to someone before that im not rewording and typing so im just pasting it -> sneeg ate frank which is caused by a whole thing in itself right because slimecicle wasnt feeding him in the cage and he didnt even get through the cooking show where slimecicle tried to feed ranboo like twice but even if he did get that far he probably wouldnt have eaten any of it anyway with how he talks about slimecicle right. and its more or less implied that sneeg had been in the cage with franks body for atleast a little while and he would still have to eat something. and slimecicles a cannibal so why would he even bring sneeg food in the cage when theres already food in there with him? and even if you were to ignore all that sneeg was still the only one that consistently ate throughout episode two. and its really implied that all the food in general is organs n such just under a filter because slimecicle was eating it and then in episode two in the candy room when vinny tries the candy he spits it out and says its disgusting but sneeg didnt have a problem with it he was eating the entire time they were in there. sneeg knew frank before he died and if you take the "everything about the characters is a metaphor for how media portrays things" seriously you can assume that they were in love with eachother which leads to really the main reason i think showfall would kill frank and not bring him back like they do with everyone else because evidently theyre homophobic. anyway you put sneeg in that cage with franks body and nothing to eat he will eventually have to eat frank to stay alive whether he even knew frank was dead or not. and cannibalism can be a metaphor for so much like sure i guess from a meta perspective you can take the cannibalism in the show as a metaphor for how audiences just take and take but in universe they really are eating people. and innocent cannibalism is traumatic and awful and would add the layer to the characters that everyone always talks about but i really do think the idea of sneeg eating franks body is so much more compelling than charlie unknowingly eating some guts that was served to him. cannibalism isnt an easy thing it takes hands and teeth and bravery and you really do have to be set on it to do it. and it wasnt like he could leave the body after eating or get rid of it or anything and no matter what kind of cannibalism it was he still was carrying around whatever was left of frank and talking to it like frank had never died at all and in the bad hat scene when the filter broke for sneeg he had to have seen that frank was dead and fucked up from getting eaten. and with the idea that they were in love you can take the cannibalism as a metaphor for it because even after frank was permanently dead he wouldnt leave sneeg because sneeg ate him and its not like showfall could just undo that even with how powerful they are they could never undo that sneeg had bloodied himself and touched and tore and consumed and loved frank no matter how many times they reset him or how many times they kill him in gruesome ways

[hazbinned]

Kinda random, but ... I came up with a Trolley Problem scenario for Valentino, and since you're my favourite Val writer (especially when you're interacting with angie-long-legs), I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Basically, a runaway train is barrelling towards Vox, who's tied to the tracks. The front of the train is covered in angelic steel spikes, so if the train hits Vox, it will kill him.

Val is next to a lever. He can save Vox by pulling the lever, which will direct the train onto another track.

However, if he does that, the train will hit and kill Angel Dust, who's tied to the other track.

What do you think Val would do? Would he pull the lever and kill Angel, or would he not pull the lever and let Vox die?

Val was offended, and the look on his face as he peered over his shoulder could not have made that more glaring.

"How is that even a question? I would save Vox."

~

FIRST— THANK YOU VERY MUCH! There are so many excellent Vals in this community, so the fact that I am someone's favorite totally makes my day! I always feel flattered when you like our posts.

Second— this is actually kind of funny, because @angie-long-legs and I were joking that (my) Charlie would make a funny video like this about the Trolley Problem to show to the sinners in one of her redemption lessons, where she would be all the actors and all the sinners would find it so stupid hahaha.

THIRD— A giant meta on my Val and Vox, and Val's attitude toward Angel. Content warning for talk of toxic relationships and explaining things from Val's point of view (not justifying anything from an OOC perspective, but getting into Val's head and sharing how he sees things, and his intentions behind his actions.)

Valentino's relationship with Vox is an interesting one. The two of them have been in each others' lives for at least forty years, and have been living together for at least thirty, having a complicated on/off relationship all the while. Valentino is a terrible person by every stretch of the imagination, but has his soft spots when it comes to certain people (like Vox, Velvette, and, sometimes, Angel). He is cunning but incredibly emotionally immature, as he has never faced lasting consequences to his actions, resulting in this deeply-ingrained worldview of "my point of view is the only correct one, if anyone does anything I dislike, they are wrong, I am in the right. I deserve to do whatever I want because by not doing what I want them to, THEY are hurting ME." He struggles to see others' perspectives unless he can project HIMSELF into the situation, and often refuses to do that— the reason I'm saying this is because, while Valentino has chosen Angel over Vox before, and has hurt both Angel and Vox in various ways, Valentino does NOT love Angel, but he DOES love Vox.

This is the problem. There's that saying, "we always hurt the ones we love": Valentino is so used to Vox that he thinks he can get away with anything. On the surface, he is bored of Vox; Vox is older (fifties), and is not as good in bed as Angel. Vox is more closed-off, he has more boundaries (which Val actually respects, because he cares about him), and he doesn't always want to be going out and partying. Physically, too, Val is more attracted to Angel than he is to Vox. This 'boredom' comes out in Val's attempts to 'make Vox jealous' by bringing Angel (and other sinners) home with him (aka cheating-- Vox is fine with him sleeping around *outside* of the Penthouse, but not at home), by being dismissive of Vox, by not taking into consideration how upset this makes Vox (aside from being amused by it and thinking it's working)— this is all extremely toxic, inexcusable behavior on Val's part, but from his perspective, he is not doing it to hurt Vox. He doesn't know how much of a big deal it is to Vox; what is to Valentino just Vox expressing a funny/cute expression of jealousy is, on Vox's end, the extremely frustrating and distressing feeling of being cast aside once again. Val knows what Vox means to him, and that he'd never replace Vox, so it isn't a big deal for him. He knows from their history that Vox wouldn't permanently leave, so he isn't scared of losing him. Vox doesn't know that Val feels that way about him, so he's constantly battling the insecurity of wondering if he is just another game to Valentino.

When Valentino attacks Angel, he is intentionally trying to instill fear in him and break him down. Often, it's premeditated. He enjoys seeing Angel get hurt; he gets a power trip out of it. On the rare occasion that Valentino gets physical with Vox, it is an unplanned, spur-of-the-moment emotional outburst, usually when the two of them are having a disagreement. He becomes consumed by his emotions and allows them to get the better of him. This is not an excuse, it is just a reason-- Valentino does not enjoy hurting Vox and does not go out of his way to do so. Once he gets off his high horse and realizes what he's done (usually after a few days of Vox ignoring him) he comes back around with gifts and acts of kindness and occasionally a poorly-executed (and still often self-victimizing) "sorry." The difference here compared to when he love-bombs Angel is that with Angel, it's a manipulation tactic to win him back over. With Vox, he's feeling genuine guilt and has trouble addressing it in a mature manner, so he just goes with the gifts and hopes for the best.

Another issue is that there is some cognitive dissonance in how Val views Vox— Vox's head is a TV and can be repaired quickly and effectively, leaving no evidence that he was ever injured to begin with. There is a part of Val that doesn't realize the severity of hitting Vox. He thinks, "oh, it's just his screen! It's not a big deal. He can fix it!", even though it is a big deal. It still hurts. The only difference between Vox's screen getting broken and someone else getting a black eye is that the repairs act as a magic 'undo' button of sorts.

Val usually storms off right after this happens and then assumes things are back to normal and will be annoyed if Vox has not gotten over it because it "come on, Vox, it happened thirty minutes ago!" — he does not understand what a big deal it actually is to Vox, as Vox has this obsession with seeming strong and unbothered and always makes sure to remove himself from where he can be seen (and if he cries, he cries in private.) He's always telling Val "I'm fine, it's not a big deal" and has even lied about not being able to feel in his screen. Vox is deeply and obsessively in love with Val, and these incidents don't happen often enough for him to feel constantly on edge or threatened (in fact, they are so rare that he gets rattled when they DO happen), which is why he stays. If this was the norm, he would have left a long time ago. Vox would not put up with frequent abuse. My Vox also had a wife, Margaret, back in the fifties, where the roles were pretty much reversed, minus any actual love between them. Vox just kind of thinks 'this is how couples are' and puts up with it. It is not Vox's fault that any of this is happening, but Valentino IS ignorant to the extent of the pain he is causing. If he saw Vox crying or was otherwise faced with the knowledge of the true effect of his actions on Vox, he would feel horrible. His reaction would probably still be self-victimizing ("I'm sorry! Why didn't you let me know?!") because that is Val's natural response to having his defenses up, but, this aside, he does love Vox and wants to see him thrive.

When it comes to Angel, Valentino only loves Angel for his body and what he can 'use' Angel for. He loves OWNING Angel, whereas he loves Vox as a person, views him as an equal, and likes him for non-superficial reasons. There is definite toxicity within his relationship with Vox, and most of it is caused by Val (although Vox is no saint and has absolutely been the one to start things too), but Valentino would put in genuine effort to make the relationship healthy if his actions were brought to light. He WANTS his relationship with Vox to be healthy, and currently thinks it is. (Val, like Angel, has no idea what a healthy relationship looks like, but that is a whole OTHER thing.) 'Ignorance is bliss,' and he's ignorant right now. When he stops being ignorant, he's going to make a mad scramble to fix all that he's done and make it up to Vox, even if he still stumbles sometimes. There is no fixing what he has with Angel, but he's one wake-up call away from fixing what he has with Vox.

That gets into Val's relationship with Angel: Val does not love him, as stated earlier, but he is attached. He and Angel have this sickly attachment to each other, Angel literally being addicted, but also having been manipulated into thinking Val loved him at one point, while Val bounces between hating Angel, being neutral about him, and somewhat seeing him as a friend and being affectionate toward him. If he pushes the line too far, he has rare moments where he projects his younger self onto Angel and feels bad-- not necessarily because he's hurting Angel, but because he remembers how he felt when that was him. And as soon as the feeling wears off, he goes back to his old ways.

Val and Vox are primarily healthy with a track record of occasional relationship-ruining incidents sprinkled throughout, while Val and Angel are primarily unhealthy with some occasional good moments thrown in here and there. Val is not ignorant to how he makes Angel feel, and would (unless under extreme duress) not work to improve it, even though he thinks Angel is more 'fun' than Vox when it comes to certain things.

This being said, if there was some kind of loophole to the trolley problem, he would find it and save them both. Most likely, he would just derail the trolley, because he doesn't care about anyone in there and if they died it wouldn't be permanent, since the angelic steel is only on the outside. Even if it WOULD be permanent, he wouldn't care unless Velvette was in there. But in a case of pure black and white, save one or the other? He'd save Vox, without hesitation.

{ divider credit. }

[rey-jake-therapist]

The thing about Sauron is his end goal isn’t bad for speak; he wants to unite everyone and for every realm and race to get along, and create peace, harmony and order in Middle-earth. The problem is his methods, and his belief that the end justifies the means. And for him, being a control freak, becoming a dictator is okay because someone has to keep the races in line. He also believes the Valar have abandoned Middle-earth to their doom, and has to be him, the Maia, to take up the role of the Gods.

What I mean to say is: what if he shows his goal to Galadriel at the finale? And what’s why she joins him believing she can keep him in check?

There’s a lot of meta already about the foreshadowing of Galadriel succumbing to Sauron’s temptation at end. And her outright resisting him would be stupid, but her succumbing for a bit and snap out of it would be S1 finale all over again. I honestly don’t know what to expect.

Sure, I could see Galadriel have this idea that she can do that, she showed she could be as arrogant as Sauron, in this regard. The thing is, in episode 7 Sauron will probably kill Celebrimbor. Unless they decide to change canon, which I would very much like because I adore the man, I don't see how Galadriel could genuinely believe that Sauron could turn into anything else than a tyrant, or that she could somehow control his dark impulses.

So, I think we'll have a better idea of what the outcome will be after episode 7.

A repeat of the ending of season 1 would be stupid and disappointing for sure. What would be the point of all this foreshadowing if the conclusion is, "hey guys, you were all wrong and she was right, she resisted! Again!"?

But then it brings me to another speculation: it's often suggested that Sauron could prove his love to her by not killing her when he has the chance. According to Charlie, his reasons for wanting her safe seem strategical ; at least, that's what he tells himself lol Of course Charlie won't be the one who spoils that he has another reason to want Galadriel alive, but it doesn't mean that the reason he gave is wrong.

My other speculation is that Galadriel will have the chance to destroy Sauron for good, but won't be able to do it. Not because he's too strong, but because she will lose the will to do it. It's easy to kill someone you hate, much less easy to kill someone you love. So, she might resist the temptation to join him, but she'll have lost the fight anyway, which can make for an interesting premisce for season 3, especially if they add the "cosmic connection" in the mix and Sauron sweet talking in her head every day.

[intertexts]

TRIVIA TIIIIIME. THIS IS ONE OF THE LONGEST ONES YET !!!! IM SO FUCKING HYPE FOR U TO BE HERE THIS IS A BIG MILESTONE

EPISODE 13 TRIVIA:

- FIRST OFFICIAL PIECE OF MARK WINTERS ART !!!!!! HELL YEAAAAAH THIS ONE IS SO FUCKING COOL. this man haunts me

- bizly is talking about how he was fucking SWEATING all week before they recorded this ep bc he thought for sure william and vyncent were gonna just get in there and mirder the lich immediately. grizzly starts to say something like "no i wont-" and bizly cuts him off like "im not worried about YOU. youre my shining star, my golden boy"

- charlie, in response to this: "well. you should feel better because i cant even win against a WALL"

- grizzly: "i was really hoping youd take the bait and depower the villains. i was hoping to give you a cool idea with that"

- "the lich shouldnt even be alive, hes undead, hes breaking the laws of-"

charlie, interrupting "OKAYYY HEY NOW LETS NOT SAY THINGS LIKE THAT" << GETTING. INSULTED ON WILLIAMS BEHALF. AHA

- Dakotas memory about his dad pranking him in the car is an ACTUAL THING THAT GRIZZLYS DAD USED TO DO !?!?!?!!

- "william took 4 degrees of failure from punching a wall so hard your bone popped out" "yeah kind of like how i took 4 degrees of failure from sniffing a bag of doritos. kind of like how i took 4 degrees of failure from dakota comically picking me up and throwing me into a dumpster. all my trips to the spirit world are so pathetic"

- bizly: "okay let me say. you were going to go to the spirit world at the end of this regardless, i just saw an opportunity there and took it. originally i was gonna have you see a wisp while you were alive and follow it through a door or something" << AAURGRHRGHRGGH. i loooove talking abt williams powers

- HELLOOOOO THE FUCKING ANIMATIC. GOD. MAKES ME FUCKING CRAZY

- they all want to do a body swap episode. fully freaky friday moment where they cant switch back until they learn something about each other. i also want them to do this i think it would be funny

- bizly: "i love dakota dakota is one of my favorite characters in media."

(bizly: "because i relate to him"

charlie: "well THATS worrying.")

- "dakota doesnt necessarily *ignore* the why when thing happen hes just really... slow. it takes him a long time to reflect on things. it either takes him a really long time to process things and come to a conclusion OR he will just pull sage wisdom out of thin air because hes so simple minded. he'll just think for a really long time before he comes to these ideals that ive written for him as a player. itll come around, it'll just take him a long time to get there. as a player i know what kind of hero i want dakota to end up as at the end of it all" << i cant even add anything to this. grizzlyplays i am shaking you like a sack of rocks

- another mention about how dakota and chip riptide would be best friends i love this recurring bit

- "what did you guys think about seeing wavelength in the prison"

"uhh. hes mean :("

"it was awesome seeing him again, he scares me"

"it made me feel guilty that we havent found ashe yet"

- grizzly: "if he gets out of prison im gonna kill him" << HEAD IN HANDS

- "william wisp experiences incompetence consistently"

- hey remember in the episode how when william rolled to see if he was okay breathing inside the prison cell and bizly said something along the lines of "youre only hyperventilating because you *think* you should be, youre actually fine" << think about this in context with what you know now :) and hold onto it for the beginning of 14

- theyre talking about what happened between william and mark over the 10 month timeskip: william contacted him at some point, not really about anything in particular, just to ask him if he knew anything about ashe that could help thsm find him/updating him on their progress finding ashe. then when they started playing again william stopped contacting him (for meta reasons, charlie just forgot that was an option BUT) bizly took note of that anyway and thats why mark was so hostile right off the bat. he just like. stopped hearing things from william and didnt know what was going on anymore. so when they showed up here and had no update on ashe whatsoever it just made him think they werent actually doing anything to find him

- grizzly: "man you would thing being in prison and losing his son would give this man some perspective and adjust his personality but he just became more of an asshole"

bizly: "no, the problem is youre not thinking about it from his perspective!! youre only thinking about it from dakotas point of view where hes a villain and hes doing bad things so hes bad. hes just a guy who thought he was doing what he had to do to keep his son safe"

charlie: "okay but he like locked his son up forever"

bizly: "yeah i never said he was a good person! and then some teenagers came along and made him rebel and now he wants to be a super hero and the first thing that happens is he gets possessed" << THANK YOUUUU BIZLY. THANK YOU BIZLY. JUSTICE FOR MY HORRIBLE MAN

- they keep referring to overlord as "alligator guy" because they forgot his name. charlie even at one point goes "yeah and he was a crocodile or whatever, dont you know those are power level 9" << this will never stop being funny to me

- "HEY WILLIAM what do you think about dying again"

- charlie is Very concerned about the no blood thing. his theory rn is that the archway he saw was like "crossing over" for ghosts. like fully passing on and not being ghosts anymore. seeing himself/his memories in the prison cells was very poetic, he kind of feels trapped by himself right now. hes the most curious about the 5 empty chairs and what that could possibly mean

- theyre trying to figure out who the group of 5 could possibly be. williams old group didnt have 5 people, prime defenders doesnt have 5 people even with ashe so they have no ideas right now and are excited to find out more :)

- "williams pretty fucked up right now to be honest!!! we just spent an episode and a half arguing about how we're allowed to kill the lich because its undead and not human. and then he learns hes fucking deteriorating. uh oh! now hes probabky thinking 'am i even a person?' i dont even know if he knows what to think about the spirit world right now i think hes just kind of panicked"

- "if only the ghost of party city were here, hed know what to say about this"

- "how is vyncent feeling right now?" "hes still kind of pissed. his one goal of killing the lich after all these years was just ripped away from him. hes accepted it for now but if that lich escapes. man hes gonna go nuts"

SUCH an insanely good episode dude hoooooly shit. head in hands. everybody say thank u bizlychannel!!!!! man. this was SO good man it really does feel like.... not a turning point, necessarily, but very important. honestly, really glad that by now they've had time to really like, sit with their characters & the world & let it all steep for a while? this season already really feels like such a tonal shift & kind of a step up frm season 1 so far!! (NOT that season 1 also wasn't really fucking good. but a lot of what we've got in s2 so far feels a lot more settled and cohesive) im here for it!!! LOVED the animatic that shit was crazy. if thats a precedent they're setting now im gonna go wild.

I ALSO THOUGHT THEY WERE GONNA MURDER THE LICH. i was like ohhhh great this is how we get the vigilante on the run arc its gonna be so bad theyre never gonna see tide again. phew!!!! i mean, i, too, still think the lich should be dead. but. also yeah WHAT DO YOU MEAAAN THATS A REAL THING HIS DAD DID. FUCKING CRAZY.

what else.. having so many thoughts about william's Situation . as always. man. it's so fucked up. i have no clue where any of it's going dude... the only thought i have is that i don't think. we have any real context for the five thrones thing yet. i don't think that's related to anything we already know except. mayyybe mal. i think that's some spirit world-specific bullshit! we'll see though. we'll see.

YEAH <333 DAKOTA IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS IN MEDIA TOO <33333 auaurrghghhggghhh. ohh hes so everything 2 me. also i love seeing characters who don't Get Everything Immediately. like yeah! you got time to parse through it all in yr brain man. hell yeah rotate it in ur mind for weeks before coming to a conclusion!! no one has their entire belief system hammered out in advance!!

+ also feeling fucking unhinged over mark winters. as always.