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livia-dovehallow · 2 years

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I went to the Chain of Thorns tour tonight!

As promised, I saw Cassie today and wrote down her answers (paraphrased) to the questions asked to share here with you all -- and I asked her a question of my own, too!

It was a spoiler-free event, so those of you who have not finished or read any part of Chain of Thorns can read on safely :D

Question: Was it intentional that a Lightwood dies in every series? [referring to Max (TMI), Benedict (TID), Robert (TDA), Barbara (TLH)] Answer: No, it was not intentional and not planned to be that way. But there are so many Lightwoods. In retrospect, it sure looks like it, doesn't it?

Question: What was your process of creating Grace Blackthorn? Answer: Grace is a parallel of Estella from Great Expectations, as The Last Hours is a retelling of that story. I wanted a character to be an embodiment of "explanation not an excuse." I also wanted to give Estella the chance to tell things from her perspective, which is never revealed in Great Expectations. So Grace is that character who is able to display the other side of that situation through her point of view.

Question: How did you come up with the parabatai curse? Answer: It's a greek work and when I learned the meaning, I was immediately interested in exploring the power of non-romantic love. That's where the concept of parabatai came from. The curse then stemmed from expanding on what it means to be parabatai and who could and could not have one. That is where the curse came to be, and of course, how it became a focal point of TDA.

Question: How can I find a man like James Herondale? Answer: I asked myself the same question when I was younger: "Why aren't men like men in books?" I met my husband at a book club and we began sending books to one another that we liked. So my advice is to find a boy, girl, person who enjoys books, too.

Question: Who is your favorite parabatai pair? Answer: Will and Jem.

Question: Who in The Last Hours was the easiest to write? The hardest? Answer: The hardest characters to write were Grace and Matthew, as they both faced very complex problems that don't have an easy or single solution. The easiest characters to write were Cordelia and Lucie. Lucie, because she is also a writer and I very much had a passion for it the way I did when I was younger, too. Cordelia was easy to write because she was fun to write. (Bonus: The most fun to write is Magnus.)

Question: Who is your favorite character from each series? Answer: Didn't want to answer at first, but admitted the following: TID is Tessa. TLH is Lucie. TMI is Simon. No answer for TDA.

Question: Who in TLH was your favorite point of view to write from? Answer: Alastair, Thomas, and Lucie.

Question: Will we ever see Jace and Clary again in a prominent role? Answer: They will be in The Wicked Powers, but the story focuses on Ty, Dru, and Kit, so prominency will remain with them.

Question: How did you develop Ty [Blackthorn] and who was your inspiration for him? Answer: My stepbrother, who always said he looked for characters who exhibited similar characteristics as him, but it was never the same as having a character who was also autistic, and used the word, too.

Question: What made you decide to make Coredlia Iranian? Answer: I was born in Iran and Farsi was my first language. I can't speak it fluently now, but I wanted to make a character that incorporated that part of my life. To make her character and her family's characters, I had a group chat with my mother's friends, who were a bunch of 80-year-old Iranian women. They were very happy to help. Sometimes they argued amongst themselves about a question I had and who had the correct answer, and I would just sit back and watch it unfold while a little scared.

Question: Is there a plot line or detail you look back on and regret doing? Answer: THE FAMILY TREE. [She went on to explain that when she first made it, she had no intention to write any other historical book. But she got the idea for TLH while writing TDA, and suddenly the path and story she wanted to tell did not align with the already-published family tree. So basically, my theory was right and we have confirmation from CC herself that it's just a result of premature development!]

That was the last question of the night, but I saved the question I asked her myself for last! I asked her if Cecily and Gideon had official birthdays, and if so, if we would ever learn them, since we know the rest of the TID cast's birthdays from the 10th anniversary birthstone cards.

Her answer: I never told you guys their birthdays?! I have what I call the Bible and it contains everything about all the characters like their birthdays, star signs, etc. So yes, they do have birthdays. I don't remember them off the top of my head, but I'm sure it'd be no problem getting it out to you guys. There's no reason for not.

So, yes, they do have birthdays, and if she remembers that I asked, we might find them out very soon!

I had a great night and there were some hilarious answers to questions that weren't TSC-specific, but I simply just cannot write that fast.

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karouvas · 6 months

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I had been trying to figure out where some of my issues with Emma's characterization post LM came from you are absolutely right, it definitely feels like CC stopped focusing in Emma's gray morality to focus on Julian's

In theory I think the idea of their arc being Emma starting off the more ruthless and revenge driven character then easing up on that mindset as things unfold with Malcolm (I really like that little moment where she tells Julian about how her conceptions have changed since killing Malcolm didn’t give her closure, but we should have seen more of her introspection on this after it happened before bringing it back up in QoAAD) vs Julian being more of a wolf in sheep’s clothing whose manipulation and ruthlessness becomes more apparent over time, until eventually Emma is willing to do something morally gray (break the parabatai bonds) that in this set of circumstances Julian will not do, is compelling to me but the execution on Emma’s side falls short after LM because there’s not consistent enough exploration of her changing attitudes towards glorified vengeance and violence, more of an occasional check in. Part of this has to do with pacing/structure and although I love TDA and find the ensemble probably the most compelling overall of tsc series it is overstuffed with how many povs their are as much as tlh is. But also Julian clearly took priority to her at some point and his arc is more the focal point of books 2 & 3 despite all the povs, maybe if that was only the case for LoS it could work because then LM is more Emma focused LoS is more Jules focused but even though QoAAD is pretty all over the place Julian’s emotionless + grieving arc feels like it’s at the heart of the book, and I like that arc I mentioned I related to quite a few of the grief manifests as repressed/controlled emotion aspects so subjectively that clicks for me, but it does put Emma in the role of having to be more of a tether morally for most of the book and then there’s not enough of a transition between that and the moment where she goes to break the bonds. So yeah it’s partially cc prioritizing exploration of the male mc’s gray morality as the series goes on and being less interested in the female leads corresponding gray morality (and I know I would be far meaner about this if I didn’t like Julian as much as I clearly do) partly just other pacing and point of view distribution issues towards the back half of TDA that lead to this. Is how I see it. I do also think there’s something to critique about how while I adore blackstairs and enjoy that they flip some gender roles typical of cc’s earlier books couples, if when gender inverting the bad-boy-with-a-heart-of-gold x good-girl-going-bad trope the male version of the good girl with a dark heart thing gets to have a more centralized arc that is allowed to go further gray morality wise than female chars you’ve written in that vein (I would say that both Clary and Lucie count as this, Lucie in particular has a lot of parallels to Jules imo which is fun family tree wise ) and have the more centralized arc whereas while I do think Emma is a much better written character than Jace who she was clearly originally conceived as the female version of, she doesn’t have the centralized status Jace does narratively.

I do think both modern TSC arcs end up prioritizing Jace / Julian over Clary / Emma in terms of who’s character and dynamics the series eventually revolves around most (although again TDA being so ensemble changes this a little). I’m meaner about it with tmi because I don’t like Jace and Clace doesn’t work for me as a ship, and more just passively critical about it with tda because I do love Julian and Blackstairs really works for me as a ship, so I’m definitely a bit of a hypocrite there but I’ll still critique what’s relevant. I think both historical arcs do better with this I’ve spoken before about how Tessa is my Favorite tsc char as well as protag, and I think her arc and narrative is really really good and that she is central, maybe tied with Will towards the end but definitely her narrative isn’t given less importance than the guys and I’ve disagreed with takes on that to the contrary. Cordelia is an interesting case because again, the overstuffed nature of the cast means she often does not feel like the protagonist in her own story and I found that aspect worse in tlh than for Emma in tda. However I actually really don’t agree with takes that Cordelia’s story went badly because she was turned into ‘just a love interest/got lost in her romance plot’ because imo James is way less of a character in his own right than she is even in the last book where he has more agency than he did with the gracelet. Her emotions and struggles drive the plot of their romance much more than his do, and outside of it she does get to be a more proactive character in the Lilith paladin plot, dealing with her familial relationships etc. So while I did often feel like I would rather tlh focus on Cordelia herself more that really had nothing to do with James who I think was just not a priority for cc a lot of the time. Perhaps there is something to the cursed plots Will / James start out with and that device creating a need for cc to lean on the female protagonist’s characterization more (but also I’ve only read TLH once so maybe my opinion would change if I revisited I do want to say I don’t think I am a TLH or TMI expert).

#this got long and kind of off topic #asks #chaosandtwo #tda #tsc #tid #tlh #tmi #s speaks #my meta #kind of #emma carstairs #mutuals

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viennasneverland · 3 years

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Yall, dont hate on me, but I think kierarktina should have been the main characters in tda, specially with the faeriexnephlim thing and the Cold Peace being abolished, it would made so much more sense it was them like.... a full nephlim, a full faerie and a half-blood of both, the three dealing with the consequences and fordbids of the Cold Peace, with the traumas in the Hunt and the development they could have had. I love their development but you can't deny a couple like THAT, in a realitty like tda's, as main characters.... God, what we lost

Cristina is a QUEEN, my God, half of the problems in the series were solved because of her lol. Mark and his issues with self confidence and being of both words. Kieran being an exiled Prince of Faerie, moody and sweet at the same time. I mean, we could have explored so much more how the politics and this relationship worked.

Don't get me wrong, i like blackstairs (don't love, but I think some concepts os this couple are... interesting??), but we already got a JacexClary relationship, and the parabatai curse was so ???? to me, like... why? In the end is like this? Why this exists then?

Anyway, I just think i would enjoy it so much more, and It would make so much more sense if they were the main couple, but anyways, i know I'm minority so let me hide again, bye

#kierarktina #marktina #kierark #cristina mendoza rosales #mark blackthorn #mark antony blackthorn #kieran kingson #cristina rosales

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khaleesiofalicante · 3 years

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I don't particularly care for the legality of Malec nor do I care about the age gap. I do, however, have issues with the fact that they started dating when Alec was a teenager. It's the huge power imbalance that worries me. Mo matter how you look at it Alec is dating an experienced man, with so much more knowledge, social and financial power than him greatly it skews his perception of Magnus. When the power imbalance is so vast, it's easy to assume that your partner simply must be right at all times, and you're just the whiny, inexperienced teenager who doesn't know any better. It's easy then to let them walk all over you, keep secrets from you, accept miscommunication, even accept their tantrums and moods (aka Magnus pushing Alec to come out, and Alec thinking he was right to do so). I would have rather seen Malec get together in TDA when Alec feels like a grown up person on his own. Yes, he's still awfully young but at least he has some social power and emotional independence

I absolutely agree with all of this.

Power imbalances in relationships should not be taken lightly. I love that you brought this out.

Now I am wondering if this is something I would like to explore in a fic. Hmmmm. Thanks for the idea <3

Also, something I did like in the books though was that magnus was aware of the power imbalance between them (in some ways more than others of course) and he let Alec take the lead and valued his emotions and let Alec be in control of where their relationship was heading ( again - in some ways more than others of course) .

#malec

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onceupona-chaos · 3 years

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Shackles and bridges: SJM and the mating bond

I know there are a lot of posts about this, but I wanted to do one myself, so here we go.

DISCLAIMER: This is my interpretation as someone who is a very new member of this fandom and has more contact with “common readers”, since I was one myself until a couple of months ago. Everything here is based on textual evidence and my experience as an avid reader, so take a step back from any ship. But I will talk about the probability of a rejected mating bond, so if that's not your cup of tea, be warned. English is not my first language, so forgive me for any mistakes.

Be kind!

Also, minor spoiler for CC.

The mating bond is the most important element in SJM’s books and it's present in most of the main endgame couples. Aelin and Rowan, Feyre and Rhys, Nesta and Cassian, for example.

It’s described as this precious, sacred bridge between souls - or is it?

SJM is a very formulaic writer. We can draw several parallels with her writing, due to the way she structures her scenes and chooses her words.

We saw this explicitly with Nesta and Cassian in the Solstice scene, which is very similar to the one between Feyre and Rhysand: an emotional discussion, kissing tears away, lovemaking with “say it” and “you’re mine”, mating bond glowing between them, on and on.

Different characters, but same scenario, same process, same wording, almost the same scene.

However, considering that every mated couple until now ends up together HEA, I have the feeling that SJM is starting to explore the mating bond in different ways, otherwise every one of her books would be too… similar? In a way that the reader wouldn’t be surprised anymore, it would be the same story over and over.

To the ones who are faithful to those characters and to her books (her fans), this isn’t exactly a problem, but we have to consider the other readers as well, the bigger audience (SJM sold millions of copies, so not everyone who reads her books is engaged online).

For that exact reason, to approach a narrative element in a different way is very common among writers.

I’ll give you an example with Cassandra Clare and the parabatai bond (SPOILERS from TDA): the parabatai bond is an oath between friends who swear to protect each other. In TMI and TID, we have this bond between friends (Jace and Alec/ Will and Jem) that are almost brothers. However, in TDA, we have two parabatai (Julian and Emma) falling in love with each other, which is extremely forbidden.

The different ways a writer can approach the same elements are important to keep the readers engaged - not the reader who is a fan, but especially the occasional reader. Otherwise, it would be the “if you’ve read one, you’ve read them all” kind of thing, which is no bueno.

With that in mind, I really think SJM is starting to explore/ approach different sides of the mating bond.

Mate—not husband. The Fae had mates: an unbreakable bond, deeper than marriage, that lasted beyond death. (Heir of Fire/ ToG)

“But if they’re blessed, they’ll find their mate—their equal, their match in every way. High Fae wed without the mating bond, but if you find your mate, the bond is so deep that marriage is … insignificant in comparison.”

Another proof that SJM is formulaic: in both ToG and ACOTAR, the bond is presented for the first time in comparison to marriage, as something deeper and sacred.

However, Bryce, main character of CC (SJM book published before ACOSF), looks at it very differently:

“And at least he’s not some psychotic alphahole who will demand a three- day sex marathon and then call me his mate, lock me in his house, and never let me out again.” Which was why Reid—human, okay-at-sex Reid—was perfect.

This is such a contrast. To Bryce, the mating bond would take her freedom away (keep that in mind).

I’m not saying Bryce won’t have a mate or anything like that, but we don’t start reading CC with the same vision about the mating bond presented in the other books: a sacred bond, deeper than marriage. Bryce couldn’t care less about that, not once she wondered if Hunt is her mate.

Therefore, I don’t think SJM finally writing a different story about the mating bond so unthinkable. On the contrary, we see writers doing that all the time.

Also, I’m not saying Elain will reject it, but SJM is not only approaching the mating bond in different ways now, but she already structured a very solid base for a mating bond rejection to happen if she wants to:

ACOWAR

“You said your mother and father were wrong for each other; Tamlin said his own parents were wrong for each other.” I peeled off my dressing robe. “So it can’t be a perfect system of matching. What if”—I jerked my chin toward the window, to my sister and the shadowsinger in the garden—“that is what she needs? Is there no free will? What if Lucien wishes the union but she doesn’t?”

“A mating bond can be rejected”.

SJM already wrote a whole scene to explain the mating bond and how, for some people, is not this sacred thing and it can be rejected. Not only that, she directly approached that Elain could reject it if she wanted to, and that scene involved Lucien and Azriel.

“You are his mate. Do you even know what that means?”

“It means nothing,” Elain said, her voice breaking. “It means nothing. I don’t care who decided it or why they did—”

“You belong to him.”

“I belong to no one. But my heart belongs to you.“

Also in ACOWAR, Elain makes herself very clear: she would have ignored/ rejected the mating bond right there if Graysen still wanted a future with her, because she loved him. She would have chosen to follow her heart without hesitation.

The funny thing is that Azriel - Elain's current love interest - never saw that scene, never saw how Elain vigorously rejected Lucien for someone she loved or the way Graysen rejected her (I’ll leave this information to you).

ACOFAS

Those doe-brown eyes turned toward me. Sharper than I’d ever seen them.

“And that entitles him to my time, my affections?”

“No.” I blinked.

Her mouth tightened, the only sign of anger in her graceful countenance. “I don’t want a mate. I don’t want a male.”

Months go by and Elain is still uncomfortable with the bond.

ACOSF

“I am not always in this city to see my mate.” The last two words dripped with discomfort.

Her brown eyes were wary. Usually, that look was reserved for Lucien.

Elain only shrank further into herself, no trace of that newfound boldness to be seen.

At this point, it’s clear: the question "what if the Cauldron was wrong?" didn’t come out of nowhere, not only for Azriel, but in the narrative as well.

SJM had been slowly hinted at for three books now. I know she can change her mind, but if she wants to write about it, she made sure to write the perfect opportunity:

SJM already wrote a scene about the possibility of Elain rejecting the bond, that involved Elain, Lucien and Azriel, so it’s not coming from nowhere;

Lucien compared how different Elain is from the female who he had really loved;

They are both uncomfortable around each other;

Elain is romantically interested in someone else, who was part of that scene back in ACOWAR when we were presented to the possibility;

This someone else (Azriel) is interested in her;

SJM made sure to tie the romantic plot (Elain’s mating bond) with a political plot (Blood Duel);

The political plot is connected to the overarching plot (Autumn Court, Beron and Eris/ Koschei);

Mostly important: Elain is showing for three books that she doesn't want the bond;

"I don't want a mate. I don't want a male."

She literally said that with all the letters.

We can see this dichotomy between shackles (no freedom) x bridge (a connection) regarding Lucien as well.

"(Jesminda) She had chosen him. Elain had been … thrown at him."

He said that Elain had been thrown at him and also that they were shackled.

“Give her time to accept it.”

“To accept a life shackled to me?” (ACOFAS)

And then right in the next book (ACOSF) we have this:

“Well, I didn’t have a choice in being shackled to you, either.”

The declaration slammed into her. Shackled.(…)

Shackled.

Words beckoned, sharp as knives, begging for her to grab one and plunge it into his chest. Make him hurt as much as that one word hurt her.

SJM emphasized what that one word meant by repeating it and using italics. It’s another side of a mating bond: not a bridge of connection, but shackles with no freedom, no choice.

If Nesta was that hurt when Cassian (someone she loves) said that he didn’t get a choice in being "shackled” to her, can you imagine how is it for Elain and to actually have this bond with someone she don't love? And to Lucien as well?

The thing is in terms of storytelling, and by that I mean the plot, it’s undeniable that we already have everything that’s necessary to approach the matter of the mating bond in a way the reader has never seen before.

It’s a huge possibility, one that would make the regular readers interested (we have to remember that, not everyone who reads those books is engaged. They read them when it’s appealing).

If you want to look deeper, we can see little clues that point to that narrative path, too:

Elain shall wed for love and beauty.

The bond Elain had chosen.

Elain cut in sharply, “I am not a child to be fought over.”

Now, why hasn't Elain rejected the bond?

Because a writer doesn’t waist a good plot like that. Simple as that.

Let me tell you: SJM won’t waist that plot because a part of the fandom doesn’t like Elain, because 1) the online fandom itself is just a part of the readers; 2) inside the online fandom there are people who dislike Elain, who are neutral about her and people who like her; 3) SJM already know some people hate Elain, otherwise she wouldn’t have wrote this:

You think Elain is boring?

I think she’s kind, I’ll take kindness over nastiness any day. But I also think we haven’t seen all she has to offer yet.

SJM already told us she likes to write about disliked characters. She will write the story she wants to write and ACOSF is the major proof of that. If it’s a rejection or not, only she knows, everything could happen.

But SJM has been writing about mating bonds for years, do you really think the first time we get to see a rejection it would be for someone else’s POV? Or in a minor plot as if it isn’t a big deal? Especially when this rejection is directly related to a political plot and to the overarching plot?

No, not when SJM has enough material to write 700 pages and more, not when she has the opportunity to make a whole book out of this, one that is something entirely new for the reader, not when SJM built the perfect opportunity herself.

#pro elain #mating bond #pro elain archeron #acotar 5

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crimeronan · 4 years

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Can you explain the appeal of Julian Blackthorn? This is a genuine question because I read the books and came away utterly bored by him and unconvinced of his moral greyness as opposed to like, Adam Parrish’s. He seemed so one dimensional to me but I want to know if I’m Wrong TM considering I tend to be very very biased toward my favourite characters and bored by the rest, and my favourites were Mark and Kieran. So maybe I just didn’t pay him enough attention??

it’s been a while since i wrote any earnest tsc meta but cringe culture is dead and the chance to infodump about my julian thoughts has me vibrating where i’m sitting so. yes okay.

technical stuff

(aka: things pertaining to How The Story Is Constructed)

cassandra clare’s characterization has become much stronger just in general since she first began writing the series like twenty years ago

perhaps most importantly: the more recent stuff i’ve read from her has involved characters who actually grow, change, and learn from their past mistakes

rather than repeating the same stupid decisions over and over again

and over and over and over some more

seriously take a shot every time someone in tmi miscommunicates or self-destructs in ways They Have Learned Not To Do for no real reason. u will die of alcohol poisoning

in tda this shines ESPECIALLY with the evolution of mark, kieran, and cristina’s relationship, but that’s a separate post

clare’s trademark is also the angsty traumatized jerkass love interest with a secret heart of gold

the woman is almost singlehandedly responsible for draco in leather pants and the proliferation of this kind of character type in fandom and teen lit. this isn’t a criticism it’s me marveling at how if you commit hard enough to a single trope you truly can change the world. follow your dreams

sad jackass with a heart of gold isn’t an Inherently Problematic Character Type

but poorly done it can lead to relationship dynamics in which one partner is constantly being hurt by and then forgiving the other despite them making no real effort to change, because they are narratively absolved due to being sad

(there’s a lot of this with earlier jace content. in some ways i think will was later created specifically to be a same-archetype protagonist who actually does get called on his shit and grow. that’s also another post)

also if all of your sexy male love interests are tortured jackasses with a heart of gold then people start calling you a one-trick pony

enter julian blackthorn!

from the very start everything about him is designed to be the INVERSE of the heart of gold jackass. which immediately makes him interesting just from a meta perspective

(mark and kieran are also both alternate angles on this time-honored archetype. mark gets the heart of gold and kieran gets the jackass and then they’re both much more deeply messy than that. yet another post)

julian is kind, self-sacrificing, empathetic, artistic, emotionally supportive, responsible, and favored by old grannies everywhere

so a completely nonthreatening milquetoast guy, right

immediately forgettable if you’re only here for the dramatic conflicts and shithead antics of clare’s other protags

except that he is A Mess

and that he has structured his priorities very carefully, and they are as selfless as you expect from The Hero (TM) but they are also Not Heroic (TM) and they do not align with the moral framework The Hero (TM) is supposed to use

moral ambiguity in characters always exists in relation to their narratives imo. you mention adam parrish - trc’s narrative already mucks around in different ethical shades of gray, and adam falls on the canon scale about where julian does on his canon scale. both more willing than the average pov character to do the ruthless thing or make the fucked-up choice if the ends justify the means; both with an intensely strong sense of internal priorities that they adhere to at all costs, both so unbelievably fucking down for murder; etc

i do think there are ways julian’s choices could have been pushed even further, but considering the number of readers who hate his guts already, i can see why clare opted not to go for the most controversial possible conflicts

so we’re flipping the narrative

instead of seeing this angsty bad boy and peeling back the layers of his trauma to find his heart of gold, we’re seeing the put-together selfless family man and peeling back the layers of his Responsibility Mask to expose the rotting husk underneath

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

THAT IS FUN AS FUCK

then when julian DOES lash out in hurtful, uncontrolled ways, he has significantly more narrative justification for it than most of clare’s protagonists (will elaborate in characterization thoughts)

julian is also interesting as fuck because of how his struggles allow for a more in-depth look at the failings of shadowhunter society, something that’s also sorely lacking in clare’s earlier work

his apparent amorality is simply the result of him making pragmatic and impossible choices because he has been faced with fucked-up ethical dilemmas since age 12 Because Society Has Failed Him

which opens the door for narrative exploration of how and why he’s been failed so badly & what needs to change

i also love that he has such a coldly calculated way of analyzing situations and allowing harm to occur when need be, bc a lot of clare’s early protagonists have such a bad case of Rush In And Get Myself Killed Because I’ve Got Feelings About Impulsive Heroism syndrome that i wanna push them in front of a truck

probably there’s other meta narrative stuff i could say but i’m stopping myself and moving on to character analysis

characterization stuff

(aka: reasons why i’m also attached to him in a vacuum)

i don’t read him as one-dimensional at all tbh

u may feel the narrative pushes “ruthless julian blackthorn” too much without delivering enough actual ruthless julian But i don’t think that’s the same as having only one dimension

from the get-go, the big question centered on julian is always “how far are you willing to go?” and the narrative pushes the stakes slowly higher and higher to continuously test julian’s “the price is always justified” mindset

he has a far more layered and realistic response to trauma than clare’s early protagonists - trauma affects every single aspect of his personality and how he conducts himself, and the effects vary depending on the circumstances

his conviction that he has to be the perfect parent to his siblings because they will fall apart if they see him show weakness?? rooted in how he feels like he’s fallen apart since losing the stable adult support he once relied upon

his willingness to hurt semi-innocent people, commit coldblooded murder, manipulate people using political leverage, allow harm to befall any stranger if it protects his family?? rooted in how he has already had to ask himself how much he’s willing to sacrifice, and how his family is his only source of stability when the world has never done Shit for him

his conviction that he has a darker heart than anyone else because he killed his possessed father, even though intellectually he knows he was saving his brother’s life?? rooted in having no means of processing this trauma and being unable to voice his feelings for fear of backlash from a deeply non-understanding society

the way he represses every single negative emotion he ever has, to the point where emma - his actual literal magic soulmate who can feel his emotions - is startled to find him hurting or angry?? once again all about how he has to be the perfect father or he’s failed completely

the way his anger is so totally disproportionate to different situations and the way his negative emotions can only come out in completely uncontrolled breaks?? all that repression baybey. this kid has not processed a single bad feeling in five years. every single real grievance and petty annoyance has been festering indefinitely inside him like a slowly spreading infection

julian’s arc involves him needing to get thru being his worst self to actually start to heal

as in, he has to actually learn to acknowledge his feelings, take care of himself, lean on his family, and let other people take some responsibility

he also has to learn that in his quest to be the perfect emotionally controlled authority figure, he has not actually learned how to control or deal with his emotions. like. At Fucking All. good god

the narrative setup is also about asking “how far are you willing to go?” until the answer is finally “not this far. not this far”

and once he reaches that point, he has to reevaluate everything about how he weighs his priorities and morals and plans, etc

(i also like that emma has a perpendicular arc in which she’s always the one tempering julian and telling him “no we can’t go that far” until she’s willing to do something horrific that he absolutely won’t and HE has to stop HER. very sexy)

it’s also just really nice to have a character who’s learned to relate so well to literally every single member of his family while still having a very detached ruthless interior consciousness. i have similar feelings about how adam teaches himself to love people, but with julian it’s spelled out more explicitly in canon & it’s a more central character theme

i’m sure i’m also forgetting stuff here but this post is long enough so i’m gonna say good enough

and like i said in the tags on my other post, there are things i’d personally write differently if it were my story - plot points i’d shift, character contrasts i’d up, themes i’d explore differently, pacing i’d adjust, etc. i have plenty of ways i could be nitpicky and editorial about the effectiveness of julian’s arc. but i also don’t feel like writing them out at the moment & none of my critiques on effectiveness have an impact on the core appeal of his character 2 me. he’s so fucking good

#replies #tsc #tda #julian blackthorn #meta #long post #ungodly long post.#shadowhunters #Anonymous

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thechangeling · 3 years

Note

I was reading your co-signing the narrative post- great post btw- and your thoughts on Kit Lightwood helped me figure out exactly what bothers me about the way other characters talk about and treat him.

So, there’s this kind of this running “joke” in TLH that Christopher’s interests are boring, that everyone else puts up with it him as though it’s this big nuisance, that everyone zones out hearing him talk… and on and on and on.*** And then there’s this scene where Grace is genuinely interested or at least not bringing him down about his self-expression and the things that bring him joy, and that’s romanticized as special when it’s really kind of the bare fuckin minimum. Like, I’m not saying James/Matthew/Thomas had to immerse themselves completely in every sciency detail but the constant “jokes” implying that Christopher’s work is boring or incomprehensible or not worth their time is just so tiring. There’s always an undercurrent of “Christopher’s just playing around uselessly” (which is not true and even when he’s having fun with his work then it’s still automatically WORTHY and VALUABLE because it makes him happy!) Not to mention this recurring problem directly contradicts the value that Christopher’s work has (beyond its inherent value) when he sends it into the world to literally save lives: the poison antidote, the fire messages that will probably come about in CoT.

And the thing is, the merry thieves’ disinterest is directly meant to foil grace’s interest in order to lend the Grace/Kit relationship a certain significance, as CC assigns to it. I’m not saying shared excitement over an interest/hobby/career/field/etc isn’t sweet platonically or romantically. I just really dislike how the idea CC is using is “no one else can bear to tolerate Kit’s ‘quirks’ but Grace, and that is Endearing, and so they are Soulmates (TM)” rather than the much healthier and positive idea that “Kit does cool sciencey stuff which his family and friends generally don’t share as strong a passion for but still don’t huff about it like it’s somehow a chore or a burden on them, and then Grace comes along and she does happen to share a similar passion and that’s the beginning of their ties to one another.” That second reasoning is what could make their friendship really refreshing; we don’t need ableism poorly twined into romance to enjoy that relationship.

I haven’t read TDA in a while but I’m thinking we could also find touches of this with Ty partly because so much of when we see him is from Kit’s POV? Not that Kit means harm or thinks himself heroic but CC on the other hand is a repeat offender in “abled/white/straight/cis character is ultimately and completely responsible for the salvation of disabled/POC/queer character in this aspect.” And I’m kind of half dreading the wicked powers for that reason among others …

I apologize if all this seems obvious or rambly. I do sometimes have trouble articulating things exactly but when I read your post i had a lightbulb moment and I wanted to note it down.

Have a great day!

***Side Note: this is why I really enjoy fan-created content that explores Christopher’s relationships with people (even people he didn’t interact with on-page in the canon) without that annoying and problematic aspect built into the framework of the relationship.

^^^^^^^^^THIS ALL OF THIS!!!!!!

Full disclosure this is gonna be kind of long sorry. But you have stumbled across my favourite topic to rant about. Allistic saviorism. Basically the name is pretty self explanatory. It's when an allistic person fictional or otherwise has the desire to or actively attempts to essentially "save" the autistic person from the horrors of the world or their life, or even themselves because they think that the autistic person isn't strong or capable enough to fix/handle it on their own. All of this is usually done for very self serving reasons. Part of this is also allistic people being praised as heroes for being nice to autistic people or asking them out, or loving them.

I don't neccesarily think that kitty is an allistic savior ship on it's own. I think that there are definitely peices of those beliefs scattered throughout the books and it might get worse in TWP. That's honestly something that I'm worried about too tbh. But honestly I think that the fandom made it a billion times worse.

This mainly allistic fandom wanted to romanticize the idea of Kit taking care of Ty and shouldering the burden of his "unpredictability." Kit is the only one who can get through to Ty. The only one who understands the mystery that is Ty 🙄. Some of this is canon too. For example, Ty can look Kit in the eye, he lets him touch him. He doesn't wear the headphones when Kit's around right? And Kit was able to calm him down during his meltdown.

And while some of this is really cute from a romantic perspective, it's also kinda problematic because it reeks of allistic saviorism. It promotes the idea that Kit is like Ty's "cure." And that's just impossible.

And honestly I know I've contributed to this in some ways. Because if I'm being perfectly honest with you, there's a part of me that enjoys that. The romantization of autism.

The idea of being taken care of.

The idea that someone could love an autistic person and see them as "beautiful" and "extraordinary" and all the things Kit calls Ty, was incredibly moving and appealing to me as a kid. It still is. Because I grew up on stories of charity cases and allistic saviorism making headlines with prom dates. I was super secretive about it, but I was always a romantic growing up. But I thought that it was impossible for me to have a real love story because people like me don't get that. (Not to get all sob story on you sorry. I overshare. It's an autistic thing.)

And there are some really compelling things about kitty that really do work. And I'm not trying to suggest that Kit learning to help Ty with the ...shall we say more colourful traits of his disability is a bad thing always. It's not. But I think the issue is with Ty's lack of pov and Ty's lack of a narrative in the books. It makes him seem like less of a completely developed character and more like, "Kit's" you know?

And because we don't have Ty's pov we don't really get what makes Kit have this sort of calming effect on him or why it's different. And more importantly we don't get why Ty's letting him in, we only get Kit pushing past his boundries. The entire thing becomes about Kit essentially and that's at the root of all allistic saviorism.

Also like you mentioned before, Kit is seen as special to a certain extent because he can handle Ty. That's not neccesarily something the character believes obviously, but again with CC co-signing the damn narrative with the way she makes the impact Kit has on Ty such a big deal in everyone's eyes and in QOAAD she really emphasizes the drain Ty's necromancy plan is taking on Kit, suddenly Ty's grief becomes all about Kit and with no pov from Ty, it's more allistic savior bs.

Honestly most of this isnt actually THAT bad it's just when you throw it all together and look at the ugly history and let's be honest present, of autistic people being silenced and spoken over by our caregivers and loved ones and we are treated like burdens on them, and how those people are praised for loving us, it kinda looks bad. But the fandom definitely made it worse.

I always get criticized for criticizing kitty by allistic people with, " well if you think they're so toxic then why do you even ship them?" Which is a piss poor take lacking in any nuance. An autistic person has the right to critique a dynamic involving an autistic character. More to the point, you can love something and be critical of it. I swear when this fandom finally figures that one out... we could accomplish so much.

I'm really hoping this is making sense it's like 2 in the morning. As for Grace and Christopher's dynamic I agree with you. I basically have nothing to add. Bare minimum. Should not be idolized. The way the others treat him should not just be brushed off as no big deal. It's ableism.

Basically it's just a bunch of classic mistakes that come from a neurotypical abled writer writing nd characters. Some mistakes are more damning then others. But it does make me scared for TWP.

I can only hope.

#kit x ty #christopher lightwood #ty blackthorn #tsc #tlh #tda #twp #the last hours #the dark artifices #the wicked powers #actuallyautistic #allistic saviorism #asks

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mangora · 3 years

Text

Wait here’s my TMA/TD fear-assignment master post (gen 1-3 only sorry I couldn’t think of any strong ones for gen 4):

Gen 1:

Gwen: Buried (her fear of being buried alive, yes, but also I think it’d be fun bc you know she looks like a corpse)

Courtney: Eye (I love archivist Courtney. Also the fact she needs knowledge and access to knowledge through things like the cheating incident and her PDA, but it destroys her...mwah, Jon shit)

Duncan: Desolation (he destroys everything he touches for his own satisfaction. His relationships, private property, exc.)

Cody: Lonely (no matter how many people he talks to or matches together he’s always single and alone, and his social awkwardness wards people off)

Owen: Vast, maybe Web (his fear of flying and also being voted out quickly and his vying for attention are Vast 100% but also the fact Chris used him as a spy in TDA speaks to web)

Noah: Web (his unwillingness to be manipulated by Alejandro or forced to participate by other players is very webby)

Heather: Web or Hunt (she’s manipulative and almost always gets what she wants, but also her preying on others and being adamant about her goals is Hunt shit so idk)

Lindsay: Flesh (her fear of being not beautiful? Flesh 100%)

Beth: Lonely (she’s always trying to be nice or be like others but never gets the attention she wants from it)

Trent: Stranger (his fear of mines, the way everyone finds his number nine compulsion so uncanny, the way he’s put off when Gwen starts acting different in TDA? Yea that’s the stranger. I could definitely see a statement where he talks about always seeing mimes mimicking him and he begins to mimic others and can’t stop)

Katie and Sadie: Stranger (the parallels with Breekon and Hope kill me. They act and look so uncannily alike. Could be interesting if one of them started mimicking the other too and the other is disturbed)

Izzy: Spiral (shes fucking wild)

Eva: Slaughter (full of rage)

Bridgette: Hunt (her fear of being in the woods and her connection with animals is all Huntcore)

Geoff: Web or Lonely (seeing as he’s such a party dude, I could see him being terrified of what it’s like to not be surrounded with people, but also the way he becomes more manipulative in TDA is kinda web-ish)

Leshawna: I honestly dunno. I wanna say Slaughter because of her attitude towards Heather, but also her realist view reminds me of a Spiral victim like Helen, and her actions in TDA are reminiscent of a Web avatar. I’m gonna say Slaughter is the strongest.

Harold: Dark (fear of being sneaked up on by ninjas first off, but also considering how much he knows about everything, I think being in the dark would terrify him)

DJ: Hunt (his animal curse in WT but it manifests to be like way worse)

Ezekiel: Corruption or Hunt (him going feral and becoming a monster is classic corruption but his determination to win through any means necessary is very Hunt)

Tyler: Lonely (his need to impress everyone with his sports stunts and his constant attempts to get Lindsay to remember him? Yea lonely)

Justin: Flesh (his fear of being ugly and the importance he puts in his looks are classic Flesh behavior)

Alejandro: Flesh (he’s manipulative like a Web avatar, but also a lot of his charm comes from his looks, and his fear of putting gross food in his body is very Fleshy)

Sierra: Eye (she knows everything about everyone dude)

Gen 2:

Zoey: Lonely (she grew up ostracized in a small town and has a hard time making the friends she longs for, she’s definitely tied to the Lonely)

Cameron: Eye (once again, knows everything, and wants to experience everything. I could see him as Courtney’s runner-up or assistant, and marked by the buried because I can imagine his bubble would make him scared of being trapped again)

Mike: Web (he’s afraid of doing bad things against his will)

Mal: Slaughter (he just wants to fuck shit up and hurt people)

Vito: Flesh (also puts a lot of importance in his looks)

Manitoba: Hunt (explorer man)

Svetlana: Flesh (since she puts so much time and love into gymnastics, I think an incident involving injury would freak her tf out)

Chester: End (he’s old and wants to make the most of that)

Brick: Dark (he’s afraid of being lost without direction, as well as the literal dark)

Jo: Hunt (shes focused on winning almost exclusively)

Dawn: Extinction (she’s afraid of the earth and creatures on it withering away)

Anne Maria: Lonely (she puts so much emphasis on being seen and loved and gets volatile when people challenge that)

Scott: Web (he’s a master of scheming, what more should I say)

B: Eye (he’s afraid of others knowing about him and can’t give things up easily, but will use his knowledge to help when needed)

Staci: Stranger (she makes up so many lies for no gain besides attention and upsetting people. She’s like a car wreck you can’t look away from)

Dakota: Corruption (marked by the lonely because she needs attention to function, but I think her becoming dakotazoid and the terror she had getting there points to corruption. Also allegory of Hollywood destroying her blah blah blah)

Sam: Desolation (his self worth is put into material objects like video games and the destruction of them is shown to ruin him)

Lightning: Hunt (I know his body image leans into Flesh but his determination to win and arrogance are like that of a natural predator)

Gen 3:

Shawn: Extinction (I think he’s marked by corruption too because of his fear of zombies corrupting him, but the mass tragedy angle and doomsday prepping is very extinction-like)

Jasmine: Buried (claustrophobia, yea, but also her fear of being trapped by her feelings for Shawn point to buried. This ones kinda loose though, I could see her connected to the web or hunt too)

Sky: Flesh (similar to Svetlana, I think an injury as a gymnast would destroy her, also a big part of flesh is pride, and losing her pride and winning streak freaks Sky out)

Dave: Corruption (his germaphobia as well as his insistence on being with or ‘infecting’ Sky...yea that’s the corruption)

Scarlett: Eye (she knows a lot and uses it to watch and manipulate others)

Max: Web (he’s very methodical, if not smart, in his scheming, and him being outwitted by Scarlett freaked him tf out)

Ella: Lonely (I mainly say this for her fear of being hated by Sugar. I could also see Buried bc shes upset about Chris trapping her by revoking her ability to sing)

Leonard: Spiral (could also lean into Stranger, but his ability to convince so many people to believe in something that doesn’t exist purely with his own belief in magic is very Spirally, plus his frustration with Dave is much like Micheal’s with Jon when he could see through his bullshit, and him losing his ability to cast physical magic is very much like a Spiral victim’s descent back into humanity)

Beardo: Dark (put simply, we don’t know much about him, and he disguises any recognizable trait with sounds. Could also be Stranger)

Sugar: Hunt (fear of losing, exc. also the way she preys on others weaknesses for her own game, pun intended? Yea)

Sammy (I will not call her Samey in this house): Lonely (Amy traps her in a world where no one will talk to her or validate her ideas, it’s pretty sad. Could also see her touched by the Eye during her time impersonating Amy)

Amy: Web (she’s great at manipulating others into liking her)

Topher: Stranger (him trying to replace Chris and disillusion others to it is a pretty not-them move)

Rodney: Lonely (the fact that he’s constantly misunderstood and can’t connect with others because of it. Sad)

Feel free to add your own input! I’m not 100% sure on quite a few of these and some of the traits of the fears overlap (Stranger and Web, Hunt and Slaughter, exc.) so uh beans

#total drama #I’m not tagging all the characters sorry there’s too many

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purplebass · 4 years

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The maturity of The Last Hours characters

I really don’t know how to name this, lmao. But yeah. In this post I will try to rate (?) the level of maturity of the characters from The Last Hours. I’m only analyzing the young people, if you want a post about The Infernal Devices characters or The Mortal Instruments characters (since I still have to read TDA to this day), I can also do that. But this post will focus on the “children”.

I don’t like using the word children for these characters because they are not children so to speak, but there are some characters which are more childish than the others. I tried to outline some characters to also show how they are mirroring each other. You’ll see how funny that most of the characters who share similar storylines may not like each other too much and may also not have the same maturity, but some of them are also each other’s love interests.

I apologize for the length of this essay, but I tried to cover every character.

First, a disclaimer: I don’t consider these groups I made as strict, because of course, you can’t rate a person’s maturity. This is just a way to show you the careful planning behind the characters and I’m just trying to organize them based on logic and observation.

The first “group” I’ll analyze is the one with the character I believe are the most mature, that we can also divide in “denied childhood” and “happy childhood”. In my opinion, in this group we have Alastair, Ariadne, Anna, Thomas and Jesse. They aren’t just the oldest, they are also the ones who have always acted maturely throughout CoG. What differs between the characters I cited above is their upbringing.

Rejected Children

Alastair and Ariadne always had to fight for their parents’ approval and Alastair also had to take his father’s place whenever he was “sick”. Alastair couldn’t live his childhood the way a normal child usually does. To add fuel to the fire we also have to consider the moment when Cortana rejects Alastair when Elias is also present: that’s the metaphor of Elias rejection of Alastair as his son. This also connects with the theory of Alastair not being Elias’ son and I already think Alastair has found out about this. Ariadne also has similarities with Alastair’s situation and mirrors his situation in the opposite way. Her parents were killed when she was young. She was adopted, yes, but I reckon that the Bridgestock family has also a lot of prejudices? And they also disapprove of Ariadne seeing Anna.

Alastair and Ariadne are the “rejected children” because despite they do everything in order to keep the harmony in their households (Alastair by cleaning after Elias and Ariadne by being a perfect smart lady), they always feel like they do not deserve to be loved, because their parents never make them feel truly loved or if they do, they don’t see it (because it’s evident to me that Cordelia loves Alastair very much and Sona does too, even if she doesn’t openly show it). On the other hand, they did so much as to agree to their family’s requests even if they didn’t want to, because that’s how what they believed they had to do in order to be loved.

Alastair’s first infatuation was Charles, with whom he fell in love but that he also idealized like he probably idealized his father. Alastair, who wanted to get Elias’ attention the most but also protect Cordelia and Sona from his father’s issues, fell for another man with a problematic ego like Charles. Ariadne’s first love was Anna, but Ariadne’s parents don’t approve of her. She is naturally well-liked by shadowhunters and downworlders alike because of her personality, her confidence. Ironic, but also not ironic, that Charles is the “link” between Alastair and Ariadne. Unlike Alastair who continued seeing Charles, Anna refused to keep seeing Ariadne after her engagement with Charles.

Both Alastair and Ariadne are mature people but they also have trust issues. They often see things in a negative way because that’s what they’ve been taught: no matter what you do, you are not valuable. You could know 30 languages but you’d still be useless. In Alastair’s case, I think we’ll soon see how Thomas, who is his love interest, will show him that he is worthy of love but he will also realize that is worthy of love, or he won’t be able to love 360°. In Ariadne’s, we saw at the end of CoG how she is going to show Anna that she’s going to win her back.

Anna and Thomas are the mature characters who had a happy childhood more or less. They grew up in a peaceful environment, with parents who always tried to do their best for them and who also showed them a lot of love. And their brothers and sisters as well are also very protective of both. Plus, they are cousins, which means that they are also protective with each other. But don’t think that they have it easier compared to Alastair and Ariadne, because they also had issues.

When Anna first realized that she didn’t like men and she also didn’t like to dress like a woman, and stole Christopher’s clothes, she tried to hide it. Why? Because as much as your parents seem lovely people and they also accept your wishes (like when Anna didn’t want to go to the Academy and she said she would become a mundane bullfighter if they forced her to go lmao), you never know what they would think about this. Anna, who loved her parents very much, preferred to keep her double life hidden from them. When her parents discovered she was genderqueer, they accepted her. I hope people realize how great this is, because at the beginning of the XX century many people had to lie to their family because they would never accept their daughter or their son going against the “respectability” of the time. Like I wrote on another post, you were considered devious if you were not straight. Anna didn’t want to burden her parents with the fact that she didn’t like men or wear pretty women dresses like society expected her to, but her parents were proud of her regardless. When Cecily discovers Anna’s orientation and gives her a suit as a gift, it’s the moment when Anna can truly be herself and she doesn’t care what the other people think, because that is herself. They either accept it, or they stay away from her. Anna is a very mature also because it’s hard to hear people whisper about you and spread rumors about the life you chose to live. She’s very brave.

Thomas is the last of three children, and his oldest sisters have always tried to protect him because he’s always been a sickly child. Remember that CC posted a cute Christmas story with Gideon and Thomas and Will and James where Gideon is concerned because his son didn’t seem to grow up like a normal child. This is why for years his family tried to protect him. They feared he could die, so Thomas was always under the watchful eyes of someone and he grew tired of this. He appreciated the attention but he also wanted to be alone, and after he got better and went to Spain after the Academy, he became stronger, more mature, and independent. Thomas is quite fatherly in my opinion, as that he is wise and kind, he always tries to see the positive in every situation.

Then we have Jesse. Like Thomas, Jesse was also protected by Tatiana and was a sickly child. In the Christmas story I mentioned above, we see how when Gideon sees Jesse, he reminds him of Thomas. Jesse is Charles’ age, but since he’s technically dead, he still has the body of a 17-year-old. From what we saw, it was evident that Jesse is a respectful person and that he is also selfless. He spent a lot of years in solitude and is a person with manners. Remember what Lucie says? “A ghost with a sense of property.” He also enters in the denied childhood group in my opinion, because as much as Tatiana seemed to have taken care of him and we see how she clings on his body to the point of trying to perform necromancy to bring him back, he also didn’t live a normal childhood. His mother never let him become a shadowhunter, she never let him meet his uncles, aunts and cousins. She never let him meet other shadowhunters. She probably never gave him proper education and all that Jesse knows he learnt it by reading books. Jesse is on the opposite side of the spectrum where Alastair and Ariadne are, but he’s also divided between his life (where he was very innocent and sheltered) and his death (where he matured because he could finally explore the world his mother denied him to see).

You see, aside from Jesse, it is no wonder Alastair, Thomas, Ariadne and Anna were paired together. Not only they are the mature characters, they are also mirroring each other’s journey: Alastair had a difficult childhood while Thomas was too protected. Anna had nice parents while Ariadne lost hers when she was little and her adoptive parents are probably racists and homophobes.

In the second “group”, which I called in the middle, there are characters I consider mature but also not. These characters have acted maturely in some occasions, while they were childish during other occasions. I’ll analyze the ones with happy childhoods first.

Unfiltered Childhood, Sheltered Childhood

James is often described as a responsible and shy guy. James hit the jackpot with his parents too, because we see how close he is with them and how they always support him whatever he does and try to protect him at the same time, when they can. But even James has issues, especially after he turned into a shadow in front of everyone when he was 13. This made him not only believe he is damned (“my father was cursed, whereas I am damned”). He was also bullied because he is part-demon, and he didn’t take this lightly, as we see every time, he risks to turn into a shadow he has a sort of panic attack. James is the older son and has the tendency to cover up for Lucie and all of his closest friends. Despite everything, we can say James had a happy childhood. He was wanted, he was loved, he was protected, but his parents also treated him as an adult and let him and Lucie into the rough stuff of their pasts, hence he had un unfiltered childhood. He knew about the gory details of life early on. In a short story Will gives James, who is 1-2 years old, a damn knife in his hands! If this isn’t someone who doesn’t use a filter with his kids, I don’t know what that is. I think that it was Jesse who was shocked to hear from Lucie that she knew about his grandfather turning into a worm. He didn’t think it was a story fit for kids. I believe that James is mature but he still has some things to face to really be mature, that’s why I put him in this group. But among the Merry Thieves, he is the second most mature, imo. He is the big wise brother. You could argue: and Christopher? I’ll explain later why Christopher is on another level of maturity, wait. Lol.

Cordelia is the second mature character from this group and she is opposed to James. Why? Unlike James who was exposed to reality from a young age and knew about things that a teenager probably shouldn’t know; Cordelia was filled with lies because her family wanted to protect her childhood and didn’t think she should know the harshness of life early on. We see when CoG starts how she’s still innocent and how she had a sheltered childhood. Not only because it will be the first time in years that she will be around other guys her age, but also because until Alastair tells her what he had to cover so that she would have a childhood, she was clueless. Literally. She had been treated like a little girl by Alastair and Sona, when Cordelia was probably able to handle the truth. Cordelia didn’t grow up in a bad environment – besides her father’s problems, which Cordelia was mostly left out because Sona and Alastair kept the secret – but we may discover more things in CoI. Anyway, Cordelia is mature for her age, and she stands up for herself even if it hurts, which isn’t an easy feat.

Denied Childhood

The last of this group is Matthew. Alastair gave him the nickname “Mother Hen Fairchild”. You guys don’t know much Alastair understood about Matthew by giving him this nickname. Matthew is wealthy, wealthier than the others, but this doesn’t mean he had a happy life. On the other hand, Matthew’s only lifeline was his father Henry. You can tell Matthew loves his father, tried to protect him, which is a cute thing to do, but at what expense? For one, his childhood. Matthew is a sociable person, loves to be around people, but when he grew up in Idris, the main thing he did was take care of Henry. I don’t think Henry asked him to do it, nor did Charlotte, but he took it upon himself to do so. After all, Henry is disabled, he really needs help and Matthew just wanted to show his father he appreciated him, but I don’t think he or Charlotte understood that as a natural helper, Matthew would also be drained by this activity. He also didn’t want to leave Henry alone when he left for the Academy, which is also a sign he thinks that one of the things he has to do in order to keep his family intact (especially after the rumor about Charlotte and Gideon) is to take care of Henry. He is indeed a “motherly” figure in the Merry Thieves and to his own father, to some degree. Because of this upbringing, it’s like Matthew never truly lived his childhood like a normal child. And now that he is 17 and is using alcohol as a copying mechanism, it’s like he’s already become metaphorically old, because at that time alcohol abuse was something you’d expect from a middle-aged man.

As you see, these three characters are also expected to be in a sort of triangle, even if we don’t know the extents of this relationship yet. But we’ll surely have a lot to see.

Partially Mature (Still Innocent to Some Degree)

I’m finally at the last group!!! YAY me. I hope you read so far. These are the characters I still consider innocent and that in CoI will have a bigger storyline and we’ll also see them become more mature and face more harsh reality.

Happy Childhood

The first person from this group is Lucie. Lucie is 16, just one year younger than her brother and her best friend Cordelia. Like James, Lucie has been exposed to the harshness of life from a young age, since her parents didn’t keep many secrets with her. But Lucie is still innocent to some degree, and adventurous like a child, but we see that she isn’t able to stay calm whenever things get out of hand and people (including herself) get hurt, because one thing is hearing stories, another is actually being part of those gory stories. First, she has never been in love. I know this sounds silly, but a lot of teenagers start seeing the world differently after they fall in love with someone, truly in love. I’m not talking about infatuation here. It’s also the first time after years of dead calm that London is plagued by a new enemy, which means it’s also the very first time for Lucie – unlike James and the Merry Thieves – to finally face the stories she’s heard from her parents and the fantasy stories she’s invented as a writer. Getting to know Jesse has helped, because he is a very mature character who is opposed to her because he had a very sheltered childhood and he learnt about life just when he turned into a ghost. Since Lucie is on the cover of CoI, she’ll definitely mature more in that book.

Christopher is also innocent. He is smart, he is way more intelligent than everyone imo, but he lives in his own world sometimes. He, like Lucie, had a happy childhood and was very protected by his older sister Anna and of course his parents. But he was also let on in the secrets of the Lightwood family (like the Benedict Lightworm story), so we can say to this point that he is innocent but he also is mature because he uses his logic to make decisions. Of the Merry Thieves he's surely the youngest son, because the other guys always look after him – especially Thomas. In CoI we will probably also see his maturity journey, because so far, he appeared very absent-minded, lost in his thoughts, always trying to come up with solutions to save other people, which is admirable. I think that besides as a plot device, the fact that Belial/Tatiana hurt him with demonic poison was also a way to make Christopher aware that he should also be ready to fight as a shadowhunter other than cultivate his passion for science. I mean, he’ll probably have moments where he could use (like Henry in TID) what he invents as a useful tool in battle.

Denied Childhood

Last but not last, we have Grace. Grace is in this part of the spectrum because she is still very innocent, since she’s lived most of her life brainwashed by Tatiana/Belial. The person we see is not probably the real Grace, but a mannequin. She is also smart because her engagement to Charles was a way to escape her mother’s manipulation, but until she came to London, her whole life has been sheltered, Tatiana has told her lies, has molded her the way she wanted Grace to act as a mean to her revenge. Grace has suffered the same gaslighting Tatiana suffered from Benedict Lightwood, except Grace is aware of this and is trying to find ways to escape. Spending time with Ariadne and Lucie will only make her more conscious of who she really is, but it will be a long way because she still seems like a frail flower sometimes. She also seems not to have received training, so she’s even more in danger. CoI will probably feature a new side of Grace, and we’ll see her throw her innocence away (well, not literally, guys) and be more self-aware.

If we were to follow the logic I used so far, we’d see that Christopher and Grace might become love interests. If we look at the structure of the plot and of the couples we have so far, they are opposites but also similar. I know that many people don’t like Grace, but I believe that if she gets an arc where we see how she can give as a character, she may grow on us. Anyway, mine is just an assumption, I can be wrong. As for Lucie and Jesse, it’s only fitting the that the partially mature character and the character who wasn’t mature when he was alive and who became mature when he died, are going to be each other’s love interests. They are half-away. It’s only fitting because Lucie can also “call” ghosts who are still stuck in the living world (in the middle between life and death): understand what I mean?

Ok, I think I can close this essay by saying thank you for reading so far! But also, if you have ideas or comments etc, you can write in my ask box. As you see, I like to discuss about characters and plots, so I’m happy if you shot me a message, even in anon.

#alastair carstairs #thomas lightwood #anna lightwood #ariadne bridgestock #jesse blackthorn #james herondale #cordelia carstairs #matthew fairchild #lucie herondale #christopher lightwood #grace blackthorn #tlh #the last hours #chain of gold #chain of iron #chain of thorns #tsc #the shadowhunter chronicles #my edits

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immortal-enemies · 3 years

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Hi!! So I want to say I totally respect all your opinions but I had just wanted to add my two cents. Y’know, just another perspective, cause your discussions gave me interesting stuff to think about!! Hope y’all are having a good day!!

First, about Livvy- I don’t think I completely agree that she couldn’t stand on her own as a character. I do see where you’re coming from, though.

I think one of the underlying facets of her that was explored in TDA was a subtle struggle with individuality. Her brother and family means a lot to her, and for the Blackthorns especially their family was a lifeboat. Traumatized kids left orphaned and abandoned by the adults of their world logically come to depend on each other and influence one another in a perhaps more intense way than kids in normal situations do.

For example, let’s take James and Lucie at the start of TLH (not twins but are quite close in age). they’ve been able to “be their own person” in the way that we define that condition, because they exist in a time of unusual peace and freedom/security to leave one another. They can explore themselves outside of their immediate family and still have the generally guaranteed security of their loved ones.

Livvy and Ty, meanwhile, have from their childhood known separation and death. The way that their bond manifests is not just because of the stripped-down facts that they are twins and that they understand each other better.

Now, in TDA the focus was on Emma, Julian, Cristina, Mark more than it was on Livvy and Ty. That and the sheer size of the cast (a situation which has undeniably impacted a lot of CC’s writing, especially in TLH and TDA) means that we didn’t get to spend as much time with her alone. We don’t have a Livvy POV except in a short story where she’s a ghost, and for all those who will accurately say that POV is not the only way to get to deeply know a character, we just didn’t get much out of her alone except in Thule. So it’s easy to understand why she might have just been seen as disposable. And I do wish she had been developed more.

But don’t forget that Livvy was just as complex as any character- firstly because of her inherent worth as a human being, but also because:

she wanted to run an Institute one day (it doesn’t really matter that this isn’t a concrete personality trait, it was an important dream of hers that points to other aspects of her life). she wanted the bond of parabatai. she was a romantic at heart and she was scheming about Julian’s love life and talking about hot celebrities from the beginning. She loved love and weddings and celebration. She was curious about and wanted to include Kit as much as Ty was. She wanted to know what a kiss felt like. She smelled like orange blossoms. After she died and was brought back we see her reflect on the strange stasis she exists in and we see the danger of that condition.

The point is, from the exterior it’s easy to say that she revolves completely around Ty but... a lot of factors impact that perception. As to her death being considered more for its impact on the other characters: well, no one looked at the situation and thought primarily, “this sucks because we’re going to be so sad.” They grieved for her loss and all the things she would never get to see or do because they cared about her as a person, because of her and not because of anyone else. Livia’s Watch wasn’t established for Julian to feel sorry for himself or to make Ty feel better- grief doesn’t work that way. It was to try and honor Livvy, to put her name and character and associated feelings on something larger in order to make up a little for what she lost.

One last thing- are we forgetting Thule Livvy :(

I understand “it’s not the same Livvy.” Let’s worry less about the technicalities of how much their souls match up and think more about the actual character. The whole alternate universe construction is meant to evoke one main idea: POTENTIAL. what could have happened. It asks, what if. Now the irony is that Livvy died in the main world and in Thule she was the only true and known survivor. Outside of this, though, didn’t Livvy have the capacity to fall in love? To grieve? To stand alone as a character and save lives, protect others, make awful decisions as the leader of a weakened people? Didn’t she become even more of a key player by the time Julian and Emma left?

Just stuff to think about! Obviously no one has to agree with me lol

Hiiiii!!! Don't worry! You're good!!

I always viewed Dru as the Blackthorn who was fighting to stand out 🤔

Yes! James and Lucie are very sperate characters! But, that's because they, along with Cordelia, are both the main characters in the series. (CC said herself that it was each of their stories)

Livvy, in the other hand, exists purely because of Ty. She's not a main character, she's somewhere between a secondary character and a tertiary character. To me it feels like she existed to make us like her and then she was killed so Ty and Kit could resurrect her, which would go wrong, and that leads into TWP.

CC obviously knew Livvy was going to die from the start. She didn't just write the end of LoS and think "ya know what would be CRAZY lol?" She knew Livvy was going to die. So there wasn't much need to really grow her character into one that could stand on its own. Especially since once she was a ghost, she was tied to Ty and really couldn't develop because she has to be apart of Ty. She's not even really her own character anymore.

Yes, I did take Thule Livvy into consideration. I think she was more so put in there for the same reason all of Thule was; to set up TWP.

Yes, she was important in Thule. I mean, I don't think anyone could honestly say that Thule Shadowhunters would even exist without her.

But the story doesn't take place in Thule. She is Livvy, but she's not Livvy, so I think comparing them to the standard of "can they stand by themselves" is a little unfair.

Jdbdjsjsjs yes! All of these reasons are completely valid!! And thank you for sharing them!!

#ndmsndss 💙🧡❤️#asks #anon #livvy blackthorn

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karouvas · 7 months

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🔥 anything tsc related

the biggest problem with Queen of Air and Darkness to me is that it really should have been two books. I really enjoy the grief exploration in that book in the wake of Livvy’s death felt cathartic to me on reread and I find Julian’s switch-off arc in relation to that fascinating. I enjoy Thule in terms of how it ties into the main arc with the blackthorns although I’m not crazy about the twp set ups from it. Basically there’s quite a bit in that book I do like but as a finale it’s rushed and disappointing. I also do think either Julian or Emma or both dying would have made the ending slay and I say this as someone who clearly looooves them both and Blackstairs (considering how much I love blackstairs as it is think I would be even more insane about it if we got full tragic potential realized).

Grace x Lucie is thee toxic yuri dynamic in tsc and I think ya’ll are cowards for not paying attention to it. Literally the only reason I would reread tlh is to write fic about them ChoI era because someone should.

on a related note Lucie Herondale reads as a lesbian to me, she says at one point she’s never been attracted to a boy other than Jesse who is kind of a phantom she can make into whatever she wants / project storybook romance tropes onto in a sense for most of the books and she reads as more attracted to Cordelia with the whole ‘Beautiful Cordelia’ fanfiction and like I said her most interesting dynamic with the most chemistry is her and Grace, so yeah I get comp het vibes personally I know that’s my subjective read.

I’m pretty neutral on Clary sometimes I really liked her sometimes I was frustrated by her but I do think this counts as unpopular since most either hate or love her. I do think she falls into the 2010s heroine who is written to have an overly romantically focused arc but all her interesting bits of characterization are about tangential platonic dynamics that the author doesn’t care to elaborate on much… but also this could be an ungenerous or overly generous assessment since it’s been years since I touched og tmi. I do side eye some people for giving Jace a lot of grace to be ‘complex’ and process his trauma and be dismissive of how much she goes through in the books ( I kind of hate Jace. without nuance)

I think I deserve one on one Tessa and Julian interactions in twp, not for any logical reason I just think I deserve it since they’re my two favorite tsc characters. And there’s a lot of fan service in recent tsc anyway… let me have this.

Kieran is overrated I don’t dislike him and enjoy him in the context of Kierarktina and as a foil to Julian, but I don’t fervently love him the way a lot of people do. (I also really disliked his fandom when the tda books were coming out so that might influence this).

I want Thule! Emma to come into play in twp … I’m very interested in the idea of her in the aftermath of Thule Julian and Sebastian’s deaths. I had an idea for a fic about her but didn’t write it partly because of laziness partly because I felt I’d have to go back to tmi to remember endarkened lore for that.

Grace Blackthorn discourse was kind of unserious… not because I don’t think people can have valid reasons to dislike her obviously those exist. What she did to James was sexual assault and of course fans who hate her for it are valid. But I COULD NOT with some of statements about her especially on twitter that were like ‘well if she was a Male Character ya’ll would never forgive her and she would never get a redemption arc she only does cause she’s a pretty white girl’ like GORL. GORL what universe are you living in what paranormal/fantasy media do you consume and engage in fandoms for if you think that a male character who does a nebulous magical consent violation is going to get Less grace (no pun intended) from the narrative and fandom than a female character and would NEVER get a redemption arc. I can’t even ya’ll are dumb. If I’m being really generous maybe they just don’t read/watch a lot of paranormal media other than tsc because otherwise I…

Thanks for the ask <3

(send me a 🔥+topic/fandom and I’ll give some unpopular opinions)

#asks #tsc #tda #tlh #tmi #chaosandtwo #mutuals #sa mention #sorry but me as someone who blogs about TVDu reading that: you have to be Kidding me 😭#more like if she were a man she would have ended up with the love interest she violated and gotten everything she wanted #s speaks

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