#i have many other opinions about this season

[shoups32]

The mischaracterization of Mel Medarda by both the fandom and the show has to be one of the worst things about arcane.

In the show we see her get mischaracterized and completely ruined mostly when it comes to Viktor and mostly in season 2. This is mostly because of Amanda’s very clear dislike of her (she has said on twitter that she finds Mel boring and did basically use her to further the plot of Viktor.) but I also think a part of it is just the inconsistencies of her character. A good example of this is that we see in season 1 through a flashback that Mel is a very thoughtful character that doesn’t agree with the laws of Noxus nor their reign over Ionia. Inside the show this gets completely ignored when we see her judging Viktor due to him being from Zaun (though I don’t think that is what that scene was implying that seems to be what most do think). With what we know about her she wouldn’t be judgmental of people from Zaun. Now this isn’t to say she would have fixed all the issues and stood up for Zaun from the beginning because she still does care about her power. This is just one of the many inconsistencies in her character in arcane.

Another issue (that is far more important in my opinion) with how she is written that I believe contributes to my post is that she is written into the “disposable black girlfriend trope” not only by the fandom but by the show itself. We see this most in season two when any moment between Jayce and Mel gets Viktor in it. It is very clear Jayce cares for both of them dearly but we also see her get overshadowed by Viktor multiple times. One example is the fire scene. Jayce sees Mel first then it goes to Viktor, that could be a good show on how he cares about them both but it is shown more in a way that makes it seem as though Jayce overshadows Mel with Viktor. Of course this point is only proven more in context of the fact that Jayce rarely ever spoke to Mel in season 2 and didn’t either bring up Viktor or basically called her a shitty person. While I get a lot of people’s defense for this is that in canon Jayce was stressed when you put it all together that defense doesn’t work out much.

My final point is to why and how I think she was so butchered in the show (mostly season 2). One reason is the writers clear dislike to her. Amanda herself has admitted to finding her boring and using her for Viktor on Twitter. In season 1 I think what was protecting Mel from how bad she was portrayed in season 2 was the fact that it had a huge team of writers. Season 2 has been confirmed to only have about 3 writers so not many people to actually give the characters the love they deserve. I think season 2 being rushed is also a huge issue but that is a whole other topic.

If you don’t agree with this that is fine I just have gotten tired of the fandom mistreating her. I do hope someone reads this though and realizes how bad her character is treated.

[pink-slay]

arcane Viktor and likely spoilers for both seasons

I keep thinking about Viktor from arcane all the time and I've written poems and had lengthy conversations about it but decided that I need to state it in prose to on an account that I barely update because this account is full of things that mean something to me

I constantly think about the lengths Viktor went to to be well. The writers lured me in thinking maybe hextech or the arcane or shimmer would help Viktor's vision of running on a purple arcane body become a reality. However in the end viktor became equally if not more disabled than before. He lived, yes, but at what cost, killing Sky?

And I'm a believer in the mutual JayVik love and understanding, but Sky still mattered. She was brilliant and wonderful and kept Viktor grounded. Took his head out of his work and into the clouds (eventually literally).

Often, as disabled people, we are told that if we worked harder our problems could go away and it is a prominent belief in our culture, even if unconsciously so. I remember years ago Imani Barbarin made a video on how able bodied people want to believe they could work their way out of any disability by trying harder. They then project this onto disabled people to shield themselves from their inevitable fate (disability or death). This myth is pervasive and as much as I and many people want the betterment of all, perpetuating this myth, even in a fantasy story, is at best unrealistic and at worst problematic.

However, Arcane subverts this expectation because Viktor lives, but he lives a disabled life. He tried harder, and it tore him apart. To me this is a more powerful story than overcoming. Most can try, and most don't overcome not due to personal shortcoming but because trying harder ≠ getting better (at least inherently and especially with disability).

It reminded me of how in my freshman year of college, I dropped my math minor. It was upsetting and annoying because it was an attempt to hold onto the pieces of my first analytical love, math. However I didn't have the right wheelchair then and I didn't know it yet but I was becoming progressively more paralyzed. I just couldn't make it to the classroom they assigned me and they refused to change it.

I told my mother that at a certain point it felt more impactful that my disability made a noticeable impact in limiting me instead of trying to torture myself into narrative of overcoming. Not taking that first class was one of many times Calc II would get in my way, each time related to disability.

Viktor, like me, had a progressive disability that would've continued to progress until it killed him without drastic action. For me the drastic action was a surgery that made me be on constant opioids all summer and destroyed my relationship with my mother and the scraps of independence I still had. For Viktor it was taking shimmer and bearing the almighty power of the hex core.

I guess I write all this to say that my love of math and my disability parallel viktor. We have scientific loves and would work ourselves to death. We can be romantic when we get our heads out of our work. And we are disabled. Sick and disabled. So sick we put our lives at risk for health. Even a glimmer of health.

I know Jayce's speech is controversial among disabled people. I respect the opinions of others but I think many people don't get the experience of severe disability when interpreting it. In real life with the wide variety of disabilities, Viktor may not fall into that category but he surely does in Piltover. For me, my disability is severe. So severe I questioned if, as much as I looked up to Viktor, II could ever be respected like him. However disabled people don't become more respected by shunning nonambulatory powerchair users like me. They just isolate those that make up their community.

From a severely disabled person, understand that yes, I understand you want to fix yourself, but when you have a disability that at any point threatens your life, there is a certain ubiquitous self destruction in everything you do. That's why Viktor needed Jayce's speech. It wasn't because Jayce didn't see Viktor or his pain. Jayce knew Viktor was in pain. Jayce knew Viktor better than he knew anyone. And Jayce knew Viktor needed to be shown his value that was independent of effort--- his value as a person.

To be loved is to hear things that you can't fully wrap your head around. I believe (when I think really hard about it) that I can be who am both because of and despite my disability. I say to my closest friends that it feels like all I ever was was a miracle sick child who lived and a smart person. And I break off each quality about myself and my friend says that she'd still find value in me. Because there are people in our lives like Jayce or my friend who will give speeches to you, not to gain anything but to show you your worth even if it kills them. Because in every universe, sometimes there's only one person who can show you that-- who can stop you from ending the world even if it means succumbing to life and it's inevitable partner, death. Because the people we love don't want to see our sinews as we tear apart ourselves to breathe. They want to see us. They don't want us to suffer as much as we do. But for us there is a desire to be well. And that desire drives suffering it doesn't fix it.

Viktor meant a lot to me as someone whose life keeps changing especially in regards to their disability. Hesitancy toward drugs and spinal hardware and leg braces. And so did the way he almost destroyed the world craving something.

I have longed to be normal, to be well for most of my life. But life doesn't work that way. In fixing ourselvea and the things we view as flaws, we lose beautiful parts in the crossfire. Our friends beg us to see ourselves and if we're lucky our friends do. But so do we. I don't succeed but maybe Arcane has pushed me to see the beauty of being kind to myself because working myself into the ground isn't worth the pain especially with such a bleak unsuccessful outcome. We'll be told to fix ourselves forever but at least for once, in this one show, we can be valued despite our ardor for work. Yes, it isn't inherently wrong to want to be better. But we have lifetimes for that. Just this once maybe we can sit in the beauty of being loved both because

and despite.

[rottenlightart]

I've often heard the opinion, that Catra was a terrible friend to Scorpia, and that she didn't care about her. To be honest, I don't agree with that, Catra wasn't the worst friend for Scorpia within her capabilities, and really disagree that Catra didn't care about what will happen to Scorpia. I think their relationship is a little more complex than it seems.

(I'm not claiming that their relationship is “healthy and non-toxic,” and etc, I don't want to put any moral judgment on them because I'm not interested in it)

(I'd write many posts about my thoughts on some of the details of the series, but language barrier is eating me alive. Yes, it's a longread with bad English. I hope my attempts to translate this text are successful, but if it's an unreadable mess, let me know 🥲)

Yep, Catra in s1-s4 screws up with communication. The reasons, as I see it, are pretty obvious— she didn't get proper socialization, and on top of that, she was live in constant danger from birth, which had a big impact on her perception of people and contact with them in general. She never had examples of normal relationships in front of her, but she had plenty of things that would convince her to avoid people. Society around her was built on force and violence, she received a clear message that if only she will be strong people would not be able to harm her. (But Catra had Adora, yes. But their friendship, as perceived by Catra, was clearly antagonistic towards the world. Catra wanted to conquer the world with Adora, not be part of it with her)

Plus in s1 Catra has just lived a situation where the one person who promised her safety left her and started fighting against her. This fact, overlaid with the fact that every person she has ever known in her live, be hostile at her or straight threatened her life , explains to me her inability and unwillingness to have friendships. Perhaps she just doesn't see the point of them, because she never thought she could trust anyone but Adora, and after Adora run away from her life, that option was closed in Catra's perception.

(About "every person she known" - I'm not sure how close it is to headcanon, but I suspect that the other cadets could be bullying Catra behind Adora's back. In her perfect version of reality she interacts with other cadets much more often than in real life, this also convinces me of this)

Why then do I say her relationship to Scorpia is not clearly indifferent when I just say she didn't want friendship? Because I think she did care about Scorpia, but in ways that were possible to Catra. 3 facts speak to me about this. 1 - despite her outbursts of anger, as boss Catra is actually patient with Scorpia

Their relationship until the end of Season 4 would be easier to describe as a partnership; it was like a classic villain-sidekick duo. Scorpia acted like Catra's subordinate (she even call Catra as "our leader"), despite the fact that they were of the same rank, Catra repeatedly gave orders to Scorpia

Catra is bad as a friend who doesn't want to share standard friendship signals, but as a boss she is very patient with Scorpia. The only time she snapped at her, I'll describe below. This may sound rude, but as much as I love her, Scorpia… was a terrible employee. She often fails at tasks that are delegated to her.

She's losing the outposts she's guarding, she's failing with paperwork, she's failing to protect an important artifact... Scorpia screws up almost every order.

(Just in case, I say this without any negativity towards the character, she's not bad, she just wasn't suited for her position.)

And Catra is very patient with this. None of her commanders have ever demonstrated tolerance for failures. Her superiors strangled Catra just for self-affirmation of them, tortured her with magic for her insolent phrases and wanted to execute her for failures, while Catra was rude to Scorpia at worst. Catra showed uncharacteristic restraint with her.

2 - Catra defended Scorpia

There are several episodes where this may be shown The most controversial moment is the prison scene. I'm not sure if Catra's refusal to be rescued was a desire to protect Scorpia from the consequences, rather than emotional vulnerability after being stabbed in the back

Perhaps something in between is true, it's a complex scene. After all, she had nowhere to run, and she knew it.

But next scene is much more indicative. Their relationship changed after Catra's emotional outburst in s4. It was rude and unpleasant, but immediately after that moment Catra takes blame for failure on herself.

She didn't say that important data was lost because of Scorpia (as Catra thought it that moment).

Catra knew that Hordak could kill her for failing, which had almost happened in the past, and Catra was clearly scared in that moment. If Scorpia wasn't important to Catra at all, there wouldn't be any point in protecting her. In fact, there is no rational reason, other than affection, to risk her own life for it.

(In addition, Catra was a victim many times, and standing up to the aggressor from your childhood is an action that requires enormous willpower (trust me I know lol))

3 - Catra was worried about Scorpia when she didn't answer on her call

(It doesn’t look that obvious in the screenshots, but her voice at that moments is very expressive) I think no comments are needed here. Scorpia's departure affected Catra so much that she started looking for her through the security camera. Their breakup was one of the reasons that led to Catra's meltdown.

I could probably take more points, but I think my point of view is already clear.

As I said, their relationship does not seem to me univocal. Their relationships are complex and greatly influenced by the context of their life. This is why I love this series.

Perhaps, if they had more time, then even within the Horde their relationship could have come to balance. In any case, it's pretty bittersweet stuff.

[kathrahender]

Anyone else think we were robbed with Strickler and Jim's relationship? Don't get me wrong, I love Trollhunters as much as everyone in this fandom, but I think we should have got many more scenes between them.

And I'm not talking just about showing how much it hurt them to fight against each other (because I refuse to believe they didn't feel pain behind all that anger towards each other) but also about showing scenes about how their bond slowly healed.

Season 1 was good showing their relationship. I liked how they changed from trusting in each other, to fight against each other in episode 11 and episode 13 (apart from the second part of the season with Strickler woke up Angor Rot and its consequences), to have to become allies to defeat Angor Rot.

Season 2 wasn't so good for me because Strickler wasn't there, and I have to admit that it would have been better if they brought him back earlier. I'm not saying they should have brought him back in the first episode, but not in the last neither.

Season 3 was... interesting. I mean, I liked how Strickler trained Jim to defeat Gunmar and all the scenes they had together, but I think the season should have been a little more longer to explore better Strickler and Jim's relationship.

Besides, maybe I'm gonna say something controversial, but they should have given more depth to Strickler and Jim's relationship than Stricklake. Like everytime Strickler and Jim interact they seemed to make it about Stricklake and like??? Strickler and Jim are more than their relationship with Barbara. Don't get me wrong, I don't say this because I hate Stricklake (my opinion on them is neutral) but I only wanted Strickler and Jim to have more scenes centered in the healing of their bond.

For example, in Bad Coffee, why did they have to make it about Barbara? Why Jim couldn't bring Strickler back saying something about their broken bond? (or maybe keep the scene of the gravesand as it was but add another scene, where Jim was affected by Strickler's words under the gravesand and Strickler assured him that he returned for Jim too)

[on-wine-dark-seas]

So what finally convinced you to selfship?

Whew, this might actually net me some disdain, resentment, etc, but...I'm gonna power through this because I have a lot of opinions, and I wanna make it clear why I'm taking on this challenge.

So full disclosure: I don't actually really like Reader fics. It's not that they're not well-written. On the contrary, a majority of them are brilliant, and most of my favorite fics in this fandom are Reader[ish] fic. Now, the reason I don't like this is not because of the second-person perspective. I'm a longtime gamemaster, writing and speaking in second-person doesn't bug me. I've read The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin. Second-person can be a rad storytelling element.

What bugs me is the obvious farce of Reader fic.

I know a lot of writers and artists try their best to keep descriptions of the Reader out of their narration, but it almost always manifests and becomes glaringly obvious that the Reader is their OC stripped of name and defining physical characteristics. Even in the art, it's very clear that Y/N is an OC or a generic, skinny, white, feminine body.

Now, here's the issue: I'm a dark skinned Black woman with curly/kinky hair, and I'm not skinny or perceived as delicate [despite my best efforts]. When I see descriptions about my fave supposedly combing their hands through my hair, or my lips being plush and pink, or my CHEEKS TURNING PINK WHEN I BLUSH, I immediately separate myself from the Reader and replace it with what is obviously the writer's OC or self-insert. And there's absolutely no shame in them doing that! I am the CEO of the OC x Canon agenda, and I will always push for people to be fearless in creating OCs.

And so much of the Reader fic is making it painfully obvious that that's what everyone wants to do, and because no one wants to risk losing readers/views/kudos/comments at best, or being labeled the dreaded Mary Sue at worst, we get inundated with a lot of fanfic and fanart that clearly have heavy OC overtones.

I never see myself as the Reader because the writers are never visualizing me when they're writing the Reader. It's not even about the choices Reader makes in a fic, it's the obvious coding of the Reader's appearance, if that makes sense? I'm sure other Black women in fandom can relate.

So, because of this, I can't feel truly immersed in the story as if I'm the protagonist because the Reader is not me.

Does this look like a fragile, delicate, wide-eyed ingenue waiting to be seduced by the big, bad wolf? No. I am a woman of many vibes: I fuck. I fight. I curse. I spit blood and I dance until the sun comes up. I can also be very soft and sweet and affectionate [just ask the polycule], but most importantly: I'm Black as fuck; not just in appearance, but culturally. I come from Nigerian and American parents. I have a very rich cultural background that shapes and influences everything about me. And none of that is ever reflected in the Reader fics I read, and even some of the ones supposedly featuring a Black reader are holding back in significant ways. Yes, even the ones I praise and laud endlessly. Again, it's not about the quality of the writing, it's about the principle at its core.

And how could I ever expect a writer to account for a person like me in their stories? Why would I ever expect them to? Reader fics ring false for me because there's too many unique people out there to settle for generic nondescript details about the literal protagonist. And I have the misfortune of being in a fandom where that is mostly all there is to read. As a result, I have to do some extra mental gymnastics to enjoy reading fic. I would rather be reading about other people's OCs, if we're being honest.

I got tired of reading fic where I still felt like an interloper or outsider in a story that is supposedly about ME. And I decided to take the plunge and write a story that actually features me as the protagonist and love interest. Not the Reader. The Writer. I'm definitely not the first, and I hope I'm not the last. I feel like this is the natural progression for someone who exclusively writes OC x Canon.

On the other side of this, I understand why Reader fic has become so popular in the fandom. It's an easy way for people to get eyes on their work because now the readers feel like they can be invested in the story because the protagonist is them. And for some people, that's enough. But for those of us who are already ostracized, ignored, and even abused in fandom, and treated as Other, this is not always the case. It's not as easy as slipping into a new coat cut exactly to my size, and more like I'm in the writer's closet trying on their clothes and realizing that we're nowhere near the same size for me to be in there at all.

I hope the people who actually rock with me and my writing enjoy The Invitation when I finally release it. It's turning out to be a point of pride for me, and most importantly: the story is about me.

[always---wrong]

Sorry, hijacking a post here. I wanted to add my own thoughts to this too. As some one who is largely a Dean fan but also as someone who also loves Sam.

I agree partly. I agree that Sam not looking for Dean or cas hurt him. I don't think he was upset with Sam because he decided to stop being a hunter but rather cause he expected Sam to look for him, to try to save him no matter what because that's kinda what they do for each other.

Despite their flaws, these brothers will go to hell and back for each other. That's what we know as an audience ever since Season 1 and that's what Dean knows too.

They can always be sure that if the other was in danger, or dead that the other will fight tooth and nail to bring them back. Even if they aren't comfortable talking with each other, or having conversations without their walls and shields. (Mostly Dean because he doesn't like putting his feelings on Sam. 1. Because he was taught to help/take care of Sam. 2. Because his trauma made him believe that his feelings don't matter and he is there to help others. Which of course isn't true but John sucks)

The reason why I really dislike Season 8 Sam is because his decisions and actions don't match up with any other season of Sam. I was blind sighted. Completely baffled when I watched it.

Because the Sam we know WOULD of looked for Dean and Cas. From everything we know, he would of. There's so many examples of him desperately looking for ways to save Dean. From Season 1 to 5, then again in season 10 and on. Season 1 episode 12. All of season 3. Flashbacks in season 4 to when Dean was dead are all examples of this.

My favorite trait of Sam's, other than his snarkiness of course, is his stubborness and the things he's willing to do to get what he wants. It reminds me of John but not, because while John will push until he dies to get revenge even if it hurts his kids, even if HE hurts his kids in the process, Sam cares about Dean and those around him. He will hold back if it means itll hurt Dean. Exp: Season 1 finale. The exception being, if Dean is dying. The things he's willing to do to save his big brother is insane and I would do the same thing if I were him.

In Season 8, Sam was weirdly apathetic about Dean being gone. I was very confused. I thought he was possessed or something.

So I'm with Dean. I would be hurt too. Simply because saving each other from death is their love language. Really. Its how they show their love--- by protecting and saving each other. When Sam didn't do that it was odd. Even I as a viewer had to wonder if Sam still cared about Dean, even if it should be obvious he does. Cause Sam, as we know, cares about Dean alot. However, season 8 didn't feel like Sam so I didn't know what to expect.

If Sam just looked for Dean, even for a week I would of been totally fine. Dean probably too. I would literally give not two shits that he started a life with Amelia, because I too, if I was sure my brother was dead and I was still hurt by my time in hell, would also look for some simple peaceful times. Do I think Sam, as characterized previously would settle down? Um, actually maybe. With season 7 basically being the 'sam suffers' season I do think he might of wanted a break.

I also have opinions on Sam not looking for Kevin but it doesn't really have much to do about this discussion and it's so out of character I can't even-

Now, my opinion is quite different from yours later in your post. I do not think Dean is controlling. like at all. He's not upset about Sam's independent thinking. And it's not like Sam cares about Dean's opinion on the healthy food he eats. Dean calls the salads he eats 'rabbit food' but Sam also comments on the junk food Dean eats. Its just these brothers teasing each other. It doesn't really mean anything. They aren't deeply insecure about their food.

Sam is also a VERY independent thinker. Hes constantly doing what he wants to do. He went with Dean in season 1 because he wanted to get revenge on the demon. He wanted to do hunts in season 2 (at least in the second episode) because he thinks it's what his dad would want, sure it's because of someone's (his stupid father) opinion but ultimately it's what he wanted to do. John isn't even there. In Season 3 he wants to save Dean, even if Dean doesn't want him too. Season 4 is literally Sam just doing what he wants despite Dean's warnings (which were correct of course. 😌 I'm proud of my boy) In season 5 he wants to stop the apocalypse. It was even his choice to let Lucifer take over his body in the end. Then it was his choice to sacrifice himself.

Most of the time Dean is encouraging Sam to do normal things. Hes actually quite upset that Sam didn't get a normal life. Like in Season 1 in the Shtriga episode when he admits that he wanted Sam to have kept his innocence as a child.

Dean WANTS Sam to have a normal life. So that's not what he was upset about in season 8. It was cause Sam didn't even bother to look. Even for a bit. Even with the amount of energy and time it takes to do a simple hunt. He just decided that Dean was dead i guess and moved on.

However, Dean isn't insecure about Sam's independent thinking.

Man, season 8 Sam makes me mad.

I’m on S8 of my rewatch and man, Sam not looking for Dean after he disappeared into Purgatory really triggered Dean’s abandonment issues. 

I mean, yeah, Dean was pissed off because Sam didn’t even bother looking for him, and just kind of started a new life for himself, which is understandable. But it just clicked for me how much that would have exacerbated Dean’s abandonment issues.

Dean’s abandonment issues are so severe, that he even has difficulty with Sam having independent thought. Sam thinking about things differently or viewing things differently set Dean off. So many times, Sam expresses his independent thought, and Dean takes it as a personal attack on his own views and quickly snaps at him.

I mean it even trickles down to the choices Sam makes about the food he eats or the fact that he likes jogging to stay fit. 

Man…. that’s some serious shit right there.

[mot-hesbian]

The Mondrich storyline in season 3 is so unnecessary, personally I think they should have saved it for Benedict's season bc I find his relationship with them and his advice to be really interesting and would love for it to go both ways with him receiving advice regarding his relationship with Sophie.

[greyedian]

MAN I'm seriously so sad about season 2. Bc I wish act 2 had the same emotional impact on me as it appears to have on so many others. But rn I'm just somewhere between unable to care and actively annoyed by some of those writing decisions. Seriously the more I think about it the less I like it.

[redhoodie1723]

the imaginary carlos and charles beef that some fans are convinced is going on is giving Netflix DTS trying to convince us that charles and sebastian were mortal enemies that prayed on each other’s downfall nightly

[thepunkmuppet]

right so I don’t ship samifer in any way, as in I don’t like it I would never seek it out I hate lucifer and what he does to sam in every conceivable way, but guys…. can we please bffr, in a sort of one-sided way their dynamic is EXTREMELY homoerotic 😭😭 like I don’t LIKE it but the subtext is quite literally RIGHT there just bc it’s fucked up and toxic as shit doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

[deus-ex-mona]

no thoughts, just the way the narumi sisters are so different yet fundamentally similar at the same time yk?

[haaam-guuuurl]

BABE WAKE UP THEY'RE FINALLY LETTING RHAENYRA TARGARYEN KISS WOMEN ON TV

[quietwingsinthesky]

Do you agree w/ the fandom interpretation that john was so homophobic he’d have beaten up and abandoned his sons for being gay? Cause sure, he grew up in the 60s as a mechanic and then later became a marine during the vietnam war, but i also don’t think homophobia would’ve necessarily been a priority for him? Like obviously he’s not gonna be the full on supportive and politically correct loving dad, but i think that the fandom’s general opinion on that is pretty warped by people’s relationships w/ their own fathers

I do think this is one place where people tend to project. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that; working out our issues through fiction is healthy and good! I don’t think there’s any canon proof of it beyond, as you said, him being a marine from the sixties who would probably not be super knowledgeable about being queer, maybe a little apprehensive about it from what he’s absorbed through the culture he grew up in. I think we’d be correct to point out that if Sam or Dean were queer, he might be uncomfortable about it, he might try to avoid the topic, which is in of itself hurtful.

The thing about me is: I fully disagree that John was ever physically abusive towards his kids. At most, I will bend this interpretation to say he was probably too harsh on them while teaching them to fight and that maybe he and Sam have traded blows before when arguments got too loud (by blows, I mean, probably shoving with the yelling, you know, assertion of physical space. It seems realistic to me that two people who have been using violence for a long time to protect themselves, and for John, his family, down to the hierarchal power he’s put in place of him -> Dean -> Sam, would resort to it when things got too heated.)

(I also think that sometimes fandom’s insistence that John had to be physically abusive can sometimes get a little insulting because it perpetuates the idea that emotional abuse does less harm and can be overlooked and for flattening out John’s character in a way the show very literally pointed to and said He Did Not Do That. This is the entire point of Max’s episode in s1, for the show to point out that their experiences of abuse were different. How well it was handled is arguable, but I take it as clear evidence that when we talk about John’s relationship with his sons, the focus should be on the emotional abuse, the codependency he developed with Dean from a very young age, his neglect of them both, his attempts to suppress Sam, etc. And I appreciate this about the show, because you can’t talk about any of those things without also talking about why they’re happening, why John thinks this is necessary, how he loves his sons and isolates them to protect them and ends up doing more and more damage that will never leave them through their entire lives.

I’m sure there’s depictions of John being physically abusive that handle it with the same amount of nuance that the show handles him being emotionally abusive in canon. I have not seen them, unfortunately. I’ve seen John being physically abusive 90% of the time just being used as shorthand for him being Bad and Evil and A Terrible Father. Which does not interest me. So I will remain here as a staunch defender of He Would Not Fucking Hit His Kids.)

Sorry, okay, we got off topic there this is about gay shit.

The point of All Of That was for me to be able to say, John’s not going to react to his sons being queer by beating them. He’s definitely not going to abandon them. Hello? John Winchester? Abandon his kids? John Winchester, the guy who has been keeping them in warded up motel rooms their whole lives and moving them across the country out of paranoia the demon who killed his wife could find them if they say anywhere too long? John Winchester who only trusted one or two people to ever look after his sons when he went on a hunting trip too long? We think that John would ditch his kid because they’re queer???

Like I said, I think the most realistic reaction for John, (if not just flat out him going ‘that’s fine, now load this gun while I time you because that’s more important for me to know that you can do’, because. He kind of has bigger priorities to worry about here. Like werewolves.) would be discomfort and pushing it out of his view, ignoring it. Which would still fucking hurt! And would have horrible effects on Sam and Dean both, would encourage Dean to repress it if he thinks his dad is ashamed of him, would push Sam away if he trusts John with this fact about himself and can’t be accepted easily.

I just think this is truer to John’s character.

Anyway. If nothing else here persuades anyone reading that John Would Not Fucking Do That, well. He thought his kid was demonspawn, remember? He thought Sam was corrupted and might not be able to be saved. I don’t think you can get more clear queercoding than that, and you know what John’s very telling response was to that information, to finding out something a thousand times more terrifying than Sam being gay ever could be? To refuse to look at it. To insist to himself that whatever Hell wanted with Sam, he wouldn’t let it happen. To tell Dean to take care of it, because even when John is certain that his son might literally become a demon, he could never bring himself to pull the trigger on him. Because he loves Sam.

So like. He literally would not do anything for the much smaller realization that Sam is gay. His son has demon blood that might turn him super evil, and John still wouldn’t hurt him.

I guess what I’m trying to say here is, I try to keep the fact that John loved his sons at the forefront of my mind when I’m writing stuff about him, because I think if you let that slide out of your head, you can very easily make him much worse, much more flat than he was in canon. The real picture of him is just an extremely flawed man in a terrible situation who fucks up his kids as much as he protects them.

And also he wouldn’t care about them being gay because JohnAzazel real and true and they fucked sloppy in that hospital basement-

[theflyingfeeling]

the love of my entire life

[anhonestdaysworkcomic]

i've done so much research on medieval farming and all it's gotten me is more questions

[pearlcaddy]

As someone with a very long queue, it's always awkward when a show takes a turn that makes me go completely off a character/plot/ship/the show as a whole. My innocent and dutiful queue will spend the next six-ish weeks posting about it like some sort of Weekend at Bernie's where the corpse is my love for the show.