#i don't know how better to explain that

[batcavescolony]

Katniss is such an unreliable narrator. She says "Then something unexpected happens. At least, I don't expect it because I don't think of District 12 as a place that cares about me" girl you deliver strawberries to the Mayor, you hunt and trade for the district, when you fell at Prim being chosen someone caught you, when you went to Prim people parted for you, when you volunteered EVERYONE stopped. Idk how to tell you but I think you're a pillar of the community.

[barghest-land]

ata tu corazón, mi amor, y arrástralo por la tierra

[iholli]

I had the longest fuckin essay written for this, accidentally closed Tumblr and deleted it, then rewrote it even LONGER. LET'S GO. I am sorry in advance for how fucking long this is op

So I saw this post a while back and kind of passed it by bc I was like nah I don't agree, but it stayed in my brain and as I've been rewatching JLTAS and reading MM comics I'm actually realizing you're on to something with this, op. tl;dr Martians do have established telepathy BUT it's a huge question of abilities and morals in the entirely new element that is humanity. buckle up fellas I'm about the drop the longest session of J'onn J'onzz discussion the internet will ever see me write about anything ever because my god he is a complex character and also my favorite. if you couldn't tell from my entire profile.

This will focus on JLTAS & JLU of course bc that's my earth prime canon or whatever, but I'm pulling out comics for my main point too since I consider them canon-adjacent or even somewhat canon lore so you know. spoilers for MM 98, MM 06, and Justice League Infinity if needed under the readmore. also don't quote me 100% on everything cause I've only read the comics once and I have the memory of a flea but I have a lot of thoughts on this topic so bear with me ?? hopefully this will end up being cohesive and shit, enjoy 👉👈 content warnings in the tags !! please check them before clicking ahead bc there's some fucked up stuff early on !!

So, first things first, let's address the biggest thing, and that's Martian telepathy and the Martian code. In MM 98 it's established that Martians are a telepathic race. It's how they communicate the majority of the time, but here's the catch: it's all willingly. Martians have to open their minds to reading, they have to give permission for this communication to happen. Only the "cop" system, the Manhunters, can freely read minds and even then there's some level of permission required except in extreme cases. Which, going by JLTAS lore, is little to none. The Secret Origins novelization explains that war, poverty, etc, had long ceased to exist on Mars, so the Manhunter profession is not exactly in high demand. But I digress.

The ultimate crime in Martian culture is telepathic violation. In MM 98, at Darkseid's bidding, J'onn's twin brother Ma'alafa'ak forcefully invades the minds of many of the Martians in his vicinity (he's already a very bitter guy for a long list of reasons so this doesn't exactly take a lot of convincing), including M'yri'ah, J'onn's wife. on their wedding night. this whole story is really fucked up, guys. This mind rape-- yes, that's the actual Martian term for it-- is not only a horrific breach of trust but is also extremely traumatizing. M'yri'ah struggles greatly to let J'onn back into her mind (part of the sacred side of Martian telepathy is mentally bonding with a partner when they marry) after the fact because she just feels so tainted (you get the idea with the term rape being used for this situation, that's the only reason I included the word itself). When the Manhunters confirm Ma'alafa'ak's guilt the Martian leaders wipe his mind and remove his telepathic abilities so he doesn't have any memory of the incident and everything leading to it (which ends up not lasting long-term and makes him even angrier. the comic is a good read but it's depressing and fucked up. someone please give J'onn a hug. also keep this in mind for later).

To bring this around to op's original point, I think this falls into the setting of A Better World well. Bruce asks "can't, or won't?" of J'onn reading Lord J'onn's mind, and J'onn tells him "both." It's not a matter of inability, but moral conduct. J'onn is a Manhunter, so yes, he could barge into Lord J'onn's mind, but aside from Bruce's intuition he has absolutely no reason to distrust this other version of himself, so he refuses to do it. The Martian code means he can't do it without permission or reason, and his moral compass means he won't do it either.

So now that the precedent is set for the Martian mind reading code, let's get more into the JLTAS of the original post.

J'onn arrives on Earth and, as op mentioned, he is more than likely bombarded. Unlike Martians who have to open their minds willingly, humans have no such barriers. Their thoughts are all out in the open and they are loud (see Tabula Rasa). It's hard for J'onn to deal with this volume and I suspect he's only keeping it together because he's imprisoned in the Rockies, which aren't exactly bustling, and the stasis field doesn't let anything in or out. The Secret Origins novelization confirms J'onn was trying to reach out to Superman for at least six months (HOWEVER there's time discrepancy happening here, the Watchtower took nine months to build but Diana also says in Paradise Lost that she was off Themyscira for eight months, so take it as you will). Of course, I don't think the stasis field alone is to blame for this-- J'onn is more powerful than any primitive human technology, so it may not be that hard for him to get around the stasis if he so chooses, though he's also significantly weakened at this time. But he has to grapple with whether or not it's okay. If he reads Superman's mind, is he breaking the Martian code? Clark isn't Martian, but he's still another alien. J'onn seems to work around this by only establishing who Superman is and then implanting images in his brain to communicate the impending doom and J'onn's location-- a moral compromise.

(Secret Origins also established that the Imperium's species drained Martian abilities, so the Imperium and J'onn could communicate telepathically during their final encounter. That's the closest thing J'onn has to a "normal" conversation in the entire series and sequel. Not necessarily related, just thought it worth noting?)

So J'onn is well aware of his telepathic abilities, but adapting to their use on Earth is not just a battle but a full scale war. This can also absolutely explain why J'onn is nerfed pretty much the entire series. If he has to fight a physical battle on top of the constant mental war just to stay sane among seven billion people with zero mental barriers, J'onn is going to lose badly every time, and that's magnified tenfold when he has to use his telepathic abilities too. In Legends he tries to 1v1 Ray, who's been doing an insane amount of mental upkeep for 40 years, and knocks J'onn on his ass twice (credit to him for getting up the first time, but he attempts a combined physical and mental attack and it is excruciating, resulting in J'onn being out the rest of the fight. also this one is kind of a gray area for me in regards to the code and J'onn tearing down Ray's mental protection. Was it absolutely necessary? Was J'onn only dispersing an illusion? I don't know that I can 100% call this a breach of the Martian code so I'm not, at least for this discussion). In A Knight of Shadows when J'onn reaches out telepathically to locate Morgan le Fay (this is just him doing his job as a Manhunter, so he's not violating the code imo), the sorceress says J'onn is "merely an amateur" and "he has no idea who he's dealing with" before proceeding to absolutely destroy his mental state.

Relevant tangent, this is by far the worst telepathic backlash J'onn receives in the series, to the point I think it actively corrupted his moral compass and perhaps even truly set all this off. While he's struggling to fight the visions he knows are not real, J'onn is slipping, and during his fight with Etrigan he doesn't hesitate to barge into the demon's mind. And yeah, the tragedy of Jason Blood is what snapped J'onn out of it completely, but if you add the realization that he just committed the worst crime of his culture on top of it? Suddenly it makes a lot more sense why J'onn then tries to leave the League. That's almost more devastating for him than the visions of what he lost. He endangered his adopted family and did the one thing Martians are never supposed to do (even if Etrigan isn't Martian by any means, the principal stands, and J'onn is not exactly the best about giving himself the nuance of being largely under le Fay's possession).

Back to the point, in Tabula Rasa J'onn tells Clark that he can attempt a telepathic global sweep to locate Luthor (it's in his job description, again, so it's okay-ish), but J'onn has worked for at the very least a year and a half (I'm clocking it at 2+ years by this point personally) to shut out that much noise. Reopening the floodgates is going to be hard on him, and we see that it is, as J'onn has to escape to the quietest place he can find on Earth while he recovers from the agonizing mental barrage.

Next up, in Only a Dream we get the only moment in JLTAS or JLU when J'onn actually sleeps. He's in a semiconscious state on the Watchtower, the quietest mental place accessible. In Justice League Infinity we do see that J'onn actually sleeps at least somewhat regularly, so this absolutely backs up the sleep deprivation point imo.

In the same episode J'onn shows his power level more (why Only a Dream is my favorite episode set), but he's still out of his depth. Doctor Destiny is brand new to the mental game yet J'onn can't bring a normal human out of his hold. Destiny is ruthless, unhinged, and motivated to destroy the League and anyone who gets in his way, no holds barred. J'onn is only able to combat him on the mental field by bringing Clark, John, and Wally into the fray. "I'm stronger than you are here," he tells Clark, but Superman's not a telepath. When facing Destiny the villain says "You can't beat me," and J'onn knowingly replies with "That's why I brought a friend." J'onn is not equipped for this level of telepathic battle. He's got a leg up on his teammates, or at least most of them, but he's not strong enough on his own to take down someone so willing to break rules. I suspect even if J'onn could get to Shayera telepathically he wouldn't have been able to help her because she was so far gone in Destiny's mental hold.

Which brings me to the Thanagarians. At the beginning of Starcrossed J'onn mentions to GL that he can't read Shayera's mind, he never could, and he can't read any of the hawk minds. We find out that Thanagarians have a very strong natural mental barricade and when it finally comes down to life and death J'onn has to fight hard to read Kragger's mind. I believe the only reason he's able to get that far is time and perhaps desperation; by this point we've seen him getting a better hold on using his telepathy in this new element, a la holding his own going 1v1 telepathically with Grodd in The Secret Society (and it's still imperfect-- J'onn didn't realize the League was being mentally manipulated until after the fact, not to mention Grodd has had less time with his telepathic abilities than J'onn, so there's some power imbalance). Were the invasion any sooner I don't know if J'onn could've pulled off breaking a Thanagarian mind.

Which, yeah, that's exactly what happened. Although it technically falls under "necessary force" of the Martian code, J'onn had to absolutely destroy Kragger mentally to read his mind. It was exhausting, undoubtedly horrific, and very possibly traumatic for J'onn. And at this point I think he's really fully beginning to slip morally.

When JLU opens we see J'onn holed up in the Watchtower. He angrier, less friendly, doesn't interact unless necessary, snaps at everyone. He's gentler with the og group because they're family but even with them he's prone to be more short and snarky. He's always been sassy, but this reads to me as less banter and more just fucking tired and a little bitter, you know?

But why? J'onn's never been an extrovert, but why is he suddenly more hostile and withdrawn? My answer is he feels he's losing his hold on his moral compass, and maybe that scares him, and we know from so many JLTAS instances that J'onn is very much ✨ keep it to yourself ✨ with his problems (same, and bless him, but he's an impulsive idiot sometimes fr. makes him human). As early as Hawk and Dove, J'onn reminds Diana, "You and I have both been affected by our time among humans. It's important that we keep ourselves in check." I think this speaks louder volumes about where J'onn is standing than Diana. How far is he going to keep himself in check? Has he decided that hiding on the Watchtower rather than being out on missions himself is the best course of action to preserve his morals? Does he believe being around humans on an earthside capacity is driving him downhill? More importantly, can you blame him? He's seen the worst humanity can offer for years now, he just watched his closest friend fly off the handle at the smallest inconvenience. If power doesn't corrupt then maybe being exposed to humanity long enough will.

And it only gets worse. Task Force X (my favorite JLU episode) really smacks you in the face from this viewpoint. A group of humans breaks into the Watchtower. J'onn is unable to stop them because they threaten his team. He can't track them down because they've done major damage to the Watchtower systems. And worst of all, the whole thing was set into motion because another human betrayed the League. When J'onn figures out who was responsible, his immediate reaction is "I'd like to go in there and wipe clean the last two years of his memory." GL is shocked, asking, "Isn't that a little harsh?" to which J'onn only replies, very angrily, "We can't trust him!" This hits different after reading MM 98 because I see where this anger is coming from. This is very personal to J'onn. This is the biggest violation of his trust since Ma'alafa'ak (canon-adjacent, but relevant to consider) and his response is to pass the hardest judgement Martian culture offers. That's dark-- very, very dark. And all this because of a human. I know facing off with CADMUS absolutely did not make J'onn feel better about the whole ordeal either.

By season 2 J'onn is a total hermit, and they can't even determine when he was last on the surface. He wants nothing to do with humanity one on one and Diana calls him on it in To Another Shore. "You really don't like humanity all that much, do you?" J'onn only says "I don't... dislike them." Earth is his adopted home, he's duty bound to protect it, and to pull one of my favorite quotes from MM 06, "...this is a good planet, filled with good people. You just need to see it for yourselves."

Relevant tangent number 2, this comic is perfect for this point in discussion. The JLA has disbanded, and J'onn has adopted a more Martian appearance in public, which means he's trying to help people and he's only scaring them because they don't trust him, he looks different, but he's too tired of hiding to care anymore. As the comic goes on he's led to believe humans have been experimenting on other Martians and he kinda goes off the deep end to protect them. Yet in the middle of all this shit he still says there are good people on Earth.

So we can see where J'onn is at here. He knows there's good on Earth, that it's not all a waste, and that they're worth protecting, that's why he's still in the League helping people. But he doesn't have to like or even want to be around humans to still hold that belief (take it from someone who knows).

To Another Shore finally brings J'onn back to Earth, and this is where the tide turns for him (pun not intended pls). He's already on the slippery slope with his morals, and in the episode he doesn't hesitate to read Giganta's mind. He gets backlash from Grodd but he recovers almost immediately, and that's the worst part. He's not just capable of breaking the Martian code now, he's good at it, despite being isolated on the Watchtower for however many years. What Diana said to him and the tragedy of Prince Jon (why are there so many Johns in DC) hits full force and J'onn realizes being withdrawn from humanity is hindering as much as it is helping him. He needs to get out there and find the good he knows humans have to offer. He needs to be one of them, because yeah, he's going to live a long time and it's not going to do him any favors to spend that time alone, but he also needs to actually balance his abilities with the capacity of humans. He needs to find ways to reconnect with his moral compass, to adapt his code, right on Earth.

Also, having just reread, Justice League Infinity absolutely hits this home because he's still struggling with these issues. J'onn is finding a little peace and making friends among humans, but he's having to actively shut off his telepathic connection to the League which works like, 50-50 for him. When Overman shows up and a close human friend disappears, J'onn can't stay away any longer and rushes in. Unfortunately the instant he arrives J'onn immediately goes after Overman telepathically to shut him down because, well, he's a raving Nazi version of Superman with none of the morals to prevent him from hurting or killing. J'onn stops him kind of brutally, saying, "Your mind, Overman. Give it to me." J'onn's acting on instinct and emotion and he regrets it right away after reading Overman's mind to find he's just a broken man fucked up by Vandal Savage, and feels guilty about "violating his mind" for a long time after. He has to threaten Overman again bc this guy is dangerous and unhinged, and it works too well. Overman is terrified of J'onn. Feeling worse than ever J'onn tells Diana, "I am disgusted with myself. Telepathic invasion is anathema to me... and yet I did it eagerly." This is the second time he's expressed his guilt to his friend in this comic and I absolutely lend that to my reason why he left the League. J'onn's gotten too good at handling the power of his telepathy on Earth, he knows it, and it scares and disgusts him that it's so bad even other people are visibly afraid of him.

In a way being in the League didn't do him any favors. You see the worst of the worst, day in and day out, and most of the time the thanks you get isn't going to balance it. You're controversial, people love you, people hate you, you draw more trouble because that's how it works with heroes and villains, you get shit like Eclipsed happening. J'onn didn't get the Clark Kent Earth experience, he got the Bruce Wayne Earth experience, except worse because J'onn can hear the thoughts of seven billion people all the damn time, and people always think things they'd never say out loud. "You and I have both been affected by our time among humans" is such a raw line for this.

But hey, JLI nicely wraps the story for J'onn. He helps Diana and Bruce save the multiverse (in a glorious WonderBat moment) and when it's all said and done he decides he wants to be an ambassador for the League. J'onn is finding ways to best connect with people while staying true to the part of him that's so bonded with his family in the League.

Anyway, my brain totally ran away with this, hopefully I addressed the actual original post in all my bullshit ??? LMAO I have a lot a lot a LOT of thoughts and feelings on the complexity of J'onn J'onzz. There's soooooo much to him that JLTAS and JLU service well but not loudly unless you're looking for it.

(y'all please ask me things about J'onn. I love talking about him. I could go on for 4358366847 years and not cover everything I have to say. please take the keyboard away from me now I spent so many hours on this I HOPE IT'S READABLE OMG)

I've been watching Justice League the animated series and I just fell down a rabbit hole with my husband and have to share it/inflict it on everyone else:

Okay, going only off of thr canon in JL:TAS, J'onn J'onzz establishes that Martians CAN'T read each other’s minds when the Justice Lord version of Martian Manhunter shows up.

Which made me think, wait, did the Martians NOT know they were telepathic before that?

Like, yeah the white Martians invaded and it was implied that the green Martians knew at that point that they could read minds and the like, but like...I'm obsessed now with the idea of J'onn J'onzz had no idea that he could read minds until he came to earth and suddenly was in a world were every sentient creature seemed to be screaming all the time even when they weren't actually speaking

Like, part of his learning how to adapt to earth is learning how to use his sudden telephonic abilities. It even works well story telling wise when it comes to the issue of "opps our hero has a power that would make this plot end in a second" thing. Make it something that when he gets too overwhelmed and stressed it starts shorting out, or maybe it's something where it keeps him from sleeping because being relaxed enough to sleep means the mental walls he's managed to build for himself are lowered and all the chatter starts filtering in.

Sleep deprivation is honestly a great tool for writing if you use it right. Need your overpowered hero to be weak enough for this enemy to be a threat? Sleep deprivation. Your smart character to do something a little dumb in a way that isn't annoying to the audience? Sleep deprivation! As long as you make the effects consistent for the character in question it can give you a lot of breathing room for plot lines in a way that won't piss off your readers (so long as you don't over use it at least) while also adding the benefit of mixing in a little angst as your character deals with it.

Just, I really want a story of Martian Manhuntwr having to deal with sudden Mind Reading powers upon coming to Earth and all the interesting consequences and storylines that could come out of that.

[kit-screams-into-the-future]

was having trans marty thoughts again and i came to a realization about this scene

[brawlmetaknight]

so obviously bosses are programmed to know generally where the player is, but something i really love about meta knight boss fights in particular is that he is literally always one step behind you. his movements are not erratic, they're directly tied to yours. even if you're on the other side of the stage, he will catch up to your last point of action. it's so cool.

[forgettable-au]

Would you say Sans and Papyrus are closer than Sans and Wingdings?

Ehhh I wouldn't know what to say honestly

The dynamics are different

I guess Sans and Wingdings were closer, but Papyrus and Sans have a better sibling relationship (Though they keep a lot of things secret from each other and that's not great...but they might work that out eventually, they're just trying to protect the other)

Hmm I'm more of a show don't tell person so you're all gonna have to wait and see

Just know that both dynamics have good and bad parts!

[lazylittledragon]

right now i'm very torn between "taking critique is important as an artist and it's not an attack on me personally" and "people commenting about my same face syndrome under my posts upsets me an unreasonable amount and i wish they would stop doing it"

[angelsberrymilk]

sam winchester the King of dying poetically and erotically. no I won't explain shit.

[ruvviks]

the two most normal best friends in night city to share a birthday. happy birthday vitali and mikhail, here's to many more years of nobody knowing how to label your relationship <3

taglist (opt in/out)

@nistarot, @deadrlngers, @euryalex, @ordinarymaine, @mojaves;

@shellibisshe, @dickytwister, @mnwlk, @rindemption, @ncytiri;

@calenhads, @noirapocalypto, @florbelles, @radioactiveshitstorm, @strafethesesinners;

@fashionablyfyrdraaca, @radioactive-synth, @katsigian, @estevnys, @devilbrakers;

@aezyrraesh, @carlosoliveiraa, @adelaidedrubman, @batwomxns

[tiredmimik]

jax and breaking the fourth wall

ok so. so far, Jax has broken the fourth wall every episode.

in Ep 1, he looks directly at the camera.

in Ep 2, he shrugs at the camera.

"What do you, the viewers, think it is?"

and in Ep 3, he directly addresses the audience.

at first i was wondering why he's the only person addressing the audience, but i noticed how it's kinda interesting that the other characters dismiss the way he's acting, and how Zooble outright says "Will you stop doing that?"

so, i think it's more likely that Jax is just... making it up? as a way to disconnect himself from the circus and the people in it. that's not a new theory by any means, but i think it was solidified in Ep 4.

i think this is the first scene where we see Jax alone, and he says this. he doesn't look at the camera or anything, and is genuinely disturbed by the idea of someone watching him. it would be a weird thing for him to say if he knew that the viewers were watching him.

and a little later in the episode, there's a stark shift in his attitude as soon as he was certain that no one was watching.

so yeah. this guy's a total loser and he's pretending to talk to the "audience" to show that he doesn't care. he's masking his true feelings. because this whole episode is about masking and he parallels Ragatha so well and ouuuuhhhhh I LOVE THIS EPISODE FHDHDNJGJKVKG

[nofacednerd]

been thinking about season 2 Hughie vs season 3 Hughie lately

[kalashnikovlobotomy]

uuh can i get the rusame apology special to go? yes the one with no "sorry" pronounced, that's right. and fries.

[beanghostprincess]

You're invited to see these pics I made while watching their arc but never posted them anywhere. They mean the world to me.

[randomnameless]

Why do we still have in 2024 stupid takes like Rhea created and enforces the crest system?

Bcs Rhea BaD anon.

More seriously,

FE Fodlan is one of one of the most divorced FE verses from its fantasy elements (see : Nabateans being as important as Ignatz's leather shoes) : Tellius has the Laguz existing, Archanea/Ylisse has manaketes hanging around and being a core point in FE Archanea, Elibe has its entire history involving dragons and the best ending finally be about acceptance between the two races, Magvel has zombies, Valentia has terrors and in SoV we have dragons and magic dragon blood, Fates has dragons (and laguz-like!) and even Jugdral have people with magic dragon blood.

(i ranted and ranted and ranted under the cut, so it's a bit long)

Unlike Fodlan, Jugdral's "people with magic dragon blood" are a key element to the story told at large, and it bleeds through the mechanics used to tell that story. FE4 wise, toddler!Seliph has a S rank in swords when Beowulf, even if he trains his entire life, will never achieve A rank in swords. Base!Julia with her holy weapon can smack Loptyr, when max!invested (at least lore wise) Forseti!Ced will never be able to kill him.

It's unfair for Beo and Ced, but that is how the verse works because, in that verse, some people are mc guffins or "the only ones" who are able to do something, or even, straight out, stronger/have more talent than others.

In traditional fantasy settings we have the "same" sort of rules, you have elves who do X and Y, humans won't can't, dwarves who can't either but they can do W, orc who can do J, etc etc.

Even for all of the "deconstruction of the genre!" gimmick ASOIAF has, according to some people, Dany is fire-proof and Jon most likely survives after being assassinated because he is a Stark and can use his doggo as a back up save, both things Edmure Tully will never be able to achieve.

Tolkien has Numenoreans being straight up blessed by the Valar/stronger/longer lived/etc etc than middle-earth humans, on top of also having elves, dwarves and ents.

Ergo : power inbalance is baked in the fantasy genre.

And yet, the writers often manage to tell some version of "the ones who have less power are no less important", like with Tolkien, it's a bunch of hobbits who manage to take down the greatest "evil" of their era, or some message like "having more power/being more important means you are bound to help the ones who have none" thingie.

In Fodlan, the "beings who have more power" than humans are the Nabateans (+ Sothis herself!). Sothis can create life, her daughter - through unknown means - can create artifical beings, one her children can control weather (the one who was turned in a milkshake for Charon!), one of them has monstruous strength (the one turned in a milkshake for Blaiddyd), one of them could communicate with animals (Timotheos iirc - if we assume he was a Nabatean or got his powers from his crest), her granddaughter can set up an AOE to heal what would otherwise be fatal wounds (it's heavily implied this is what Flayn did when she overused her power and went comatose) etc etc.

This is the original power inbalance in Fodlan.

Then some humans "stole" this power from Nabateans, and got a share of it themselves, which is what is later called "crest" : aka, some humans got a part of the super/magic powers that Nabateans originally had and thus, because, for all intents and purposes, "super-humans".

Now, Fodlan discourse started with FE16 being released in 2019, not that long after GoT's ending - which was trash - and in an era where fandom turned from "harmless fun" to "something that looks like activism and earns you point if you manage to use it to express your real life opinions".

In 2019, after Dumb and Dumber tanked GoT and removed most of ASOIAF fantasy parts to deliver "sex that sells" with a moldy plot, some part of the fandom started to conflate and harass people over what they like, and how it, apparently, reflected on their real life opinions ("if you hate this female character it means you hate women!"/"if you think X becoming king is a good ending, you don't value democracy!").

So, we have this fantasy setting with its inherent power inbalance... that quickly became something that is/was unacceptable, because IRL, power inbalance is based on bullshit and something everyone decries - so if your beloved media reflects on what you like IRL, you can't like a setting with an objective power inbalance, even if is justified by magic which doesn't exist irl like shooting eyebeams or some people being more "special than others" who can live up to 1500 years old.

Fodlan's power inbalance, for some parts of the fandom 2019, cannot be justified by traditional fantasy settings so, those settings/fantasy elements are straight out ignored.

Thus the "crests"' magic effects/powers are ignored, and dumbed down to, roughly, what a middle school student would think "nobility" is/was in the Middle Ages/Renaissance.

Jean-François Marie Pierre de Bourbon isn't inherently better at smashing things with a sword than Bob, or at healing than Roger, any "advantage" Jean-François Marie Pierre de Bourbon has over them is, maybe, that he started training earlier.

In Fodlan?

If Jean-François Marie Pierre de Charon has a major Charon crest, he can dance and clap in his hands to summon rain. Bob and Roger, no matter how hard they train, will never be able to do that. Jean-François Marie Pierre de Charon will thus be seen as having higher "value" or being straight up "better" than Bob or Roger, because as long as he is here, your crops will never suffer from drought.

But... we can't have that, because if you confuse fandom and real life opinions and aspirations, you cannot admit that some people in Fodlan are inherently "better" at something, only because of their blood, otherwise, what would it translate to IRL?

This is why, imo, part of the fandom (and the game sure doesn't help! Fodlan is no Jugdral and its gameplay lacks coherence regarding the in-game lore! Remember how Raphael can use a relic and only loses 10HP, when Miklan, plot wise, was turned in a demonic beast?) that loves this take, arguably, reduces crests to a title and family name.

Why should the Bourbon family rule over us, when they're no better than Roger or Bob? Isn't it unfair the Bourbons are still valued nowadays when the only thing to their fame is their name, and not what they are actually doing?

The game plays coy about crests - we know each of them has a specific power - but it never reveals what are those powers (lore wise!) save for 2 of them. So are crests superpowers, or just a family name with a particle, or both? Is the "system" (a friend made a post debunking any idea of "systemic" application of this notion in the three countries) based on bullshit, or on, objective superpowers?

Dimitri tries to tackle the issue, but only around relic usage : the Gautiers are valued if they have a crest because they can use their superweapon to protect the border. But what about valuing House Charon's ability to bring rain and guarantee good harvests? What is the other superpower tied to the crest of Gautier that isn't "use a femur and wreck havoc with it"?

If Marianne's ability to talk to animals is tied to her crest, why isn't it more developed? Instead of having useless shit like talking and befriending horses like a Disney princess, we could have Maurice-blooded people be masters of counter-intelligence, imagine if they can talk to birds/rodents and ask them to scout various areas or spy/ask them what they saw ! Hell, we could have had a situation where in a fog of war map, where Marianne, if, idk, through Billy fed enough animals in the monastery, would have a better field of vision than anyone else, with some blurb/one-line about her relying on the animals around to know and see what is going on! Alas, it wasn't meant to be.

FE16 eludes the question, because the character who "questions" a world centered around "crests" is the marketable asset of the game, and cannot be challenged in any meaningful capacity v- she feels it's unfair that her crest seemingly dictate her life, and only in the gacha game with ery serious writing like the Heavy Plate Corps or Sniddies, does she get a modicum of self-reflection - or at least someone challenging her - where she is told that she could use the superpowers she has to help people instead of blaming the world for getting one.

In a traditional FE setting, where some Lords question why they were born with power/or are in powerful positions, the answer is always that no matter what they were born with (or without in Leif's case!) what is more important is what they decide to do with that power. Elincia never wanted to become Queen? She will still fight and protect Crimea and its people. Marth is the last hope of Altea, even if it means leaving Elice behind. Seliph doesn't want to fight in Thracia anymore or feels like he's a fraud? He can turn tail and return home, while the world around him falls apart. Leif also feels like a fraud because he doesn't have superpowers like his cousin? Does that mean he should turn his thumbs and watch as his people are being caught/enslaved/sacrificed?

In Fodlan you have no reflection like this : Linhardt is, imo, the best example.

Dude hates blood and has a crest (aka magic powers) geared towards healing, you could make a case that for someone who has hematophobia, being a healer is difficult and this would be the reason why he refuses to heal/use his powers to help people around him... but no. Lin's laziness is played for laughs, and his refusal to do anything not related to his topic of interest is never questioned/analysed under the angle of, say, a head nurse who has no crest and laments that she couldn't save everyone who was hurt during an assault, who snaps at him for having the "gift" he has and not using it for the sake of people around him.

"What Lin decides to do with his power?" : Well, nothing.

Instead we have a reflection on his bright mind going to waste if he lazes all day long, culminating in his Supreme support where an Imperial facility is created specifically to cater to his tastes, that will enable him to research crests as much as he wants...

But still, nothing about his innate "healing" power!

In the end, it's no surprise that part of the fandom latched on that "crest = nobility title" because the Fodlan verse refuses to develop anything about its fantasy elements (hell, iirc Nopes swaps "crests" for "blood" and "titles" in its Supreme route ?).

"Sure, but where does Rhea fit in this nonsense?"

Rhea is, in this vision, the ultimate target !

For all of the "I ignore fantasy elements", Rhea is always (in FE16 at least!) turning into a dragon : no matter how hard you want to ignore fantasy, she's here to remind you tht, in this verse, dragons exist.

But most importantly, as Fodlan must be analysed through an IRL lens otherwise modern fandom cannot engage with it, Rhea, by virtue of being the lady in charge of a religious organisation called "Church", is also seen through a lens : Rhea BaD bcs Religion BaD and Catholic Church BaD.

FWIW, thanks to the five years of discourse we had, I learnt more about cultural values and differences existings between, here and the rest of the world - especially a place that is overepresented on fandom spaces - on organised religions especially the catholic church. Of course this bled on fandom takes and analysis, which projected some users' irl bias against the Catholic Church on the fandom organisation and entity that is the Church of Seiros. Combine this with secularism being now weaponised and used to ridicule people in spaces like r/atheism and you have a perfect recipe for "Religion BaD = Catholic Church BaD = fictional organised religion with a catholic flair BaD".

Granted, given how a certain loLcalisation team also originates from this place, it's no surprise that some "creative liberties" they took tried to hammer even more, let it be in the script or the fucking "what is this game about?" page on their website, how this fictional organisation is basically a squenix trope of "evil cult manipulating everything in the shadows and sekritly controlling the world".

Besides, the main heroine of the game (even if that comes with a twist!) opposes this faction (CoS and especially its leader!) and, by the way those games are built, as seen earlier, they cannot disavow her too much, else the entire gut-punch the devs were gunning for (you are betrayed by your beloved character! But unlike what happens in Baten Kaitos, you only are attached to her because she is your avatar's simp) will fall apart. So she must be, somehow, right and not motivated by more personal and heinous reasons, like not accepting "non-humans" to have powers over humans, or thinking the world is not a place for them (this was carefully scrubbed out in Nopes, btw!).

If Supreme Leader, who we are supposed to root for and whom the game ultimately rewards because "reforms" happen in the endings, says that the CoS is the reason why humans value superpowers, she must be right, or at least, not completely wrong???

Which raises the final point on this topic : FE16 came in 2019, which was election year in the US, and we all know that election time in the US means the rest of the world is also affected, even if the rest of the world, well, isn't the US. As I mentionned, the US is over-represented in fandom spaces, and fandom is far from being a safehaven from all the mayhem and passion that always boil during election time and its immediate following.

Coupled with the "my fandom faves define my real life opinions" thingie I already wrote about, and we had an explosive cocktail for bad takes, needless aggressivity, ridiculing people with dissident opinions because they are seen as "wrong", etc etc. And let it be something trendy or not, especially when (young?) people are arguing about "politics" in online spaces, but it always boils down to gross simplification of various complex issues and/or using catchphrases or "shock-value" words to win over whoever is reading/listening.

(et je ne dis pas ça parce que certains de nos politiques font des "immigrés clandestins ou pas" la source de tous les maux, ou le fait que nos députés font la même chose en ce moment, Jonluk et Marine main dans la main, pour paralyser l'Etat afin de pousser Manu à la démission et éviter la case prison pour Marine)

I always thought the "CEO of racism" was a meme, but through Fodlan discourse, I started to wonder if it was something started seriously by someone who really thought that "racism" is caused by one person.

And we finally get to the point : somehow, somewhat, Rhea is supposed to be responsible for people/humans valuing superpowers.

Forget that the same "quest to obtain those superpowers" led to the extermination of her kin, or how the devs themselves explained that people - at least in their setting - always want more power :

As a result, what would happen to humans who gained power... they would want even more power, and find a dragon much stronger to beat in order to collect materials forcefully, in order to make even more powerful weapons... and so that was the cycle that was born. And that was the birth of Fodlan's Ten Elites

Wait, kill that, those superpowers don't exist since the game and the characters (bar Catherine, but I agree with @9thwither here, Cat is one of the most overlooked characters in this fandom!) never talk about them, so they don't exist...

Rhea is thus the reason why people value bloodlines - especially since those bloodlines don't come out with superpowers.

It sounds better and closer to what you could "hear" irl, from someone who's discoursing on the internet to explain "why" some people are more valued than other, it's because of religion and the Pope! It cannot be because of, well, human greed or just the need to have more power (for good or wrong reasons), no.

"But random, the Church most likely promotes a "divine right to rule" doctrine and let the 10 Elites' families rule over their clans in Faerghus thus gain nobility!"

Sure, but everything is moot if you consider this : to make this take viable, we ignore the game and consider that crests are just bloodlines, and not, objective sources of superpowers.

So why are we, discussing about this hypothesis/theory, even arguing about what the game says and/or does?

Bob Blaiddyd can kill a giant lion/wolf with his fists at base level, is it because of a supposed doctrine that people rally and want to be in Bob's graces, or because Bob has the power to protect them all? Karen Charon can summon rain, are people siding with her because Rhea told them to, or because Karen can make crops grow?

In conclusion : why people are still, in 2024, sprouting those takes?

1- Because they refuse to engage with the game and realise that it is a fantasy game belonging to a very specific genre

2- Because fandom opinions reflect on your real life opinions and likes : so they must find a reason to oppose what their perceive as an unacceptable power inbalance otherwise it means that they support the various inequalities that exist IRL

3- Because Religion BaD and bar the "projected takes from transposing feelings about an IRL church on a fantasy one" more and more people tend to prefer an "easy to proceed" solution than think about multi-causal issues and find solutions that might not.

Of course, I can already guess that some people might argue that they don't "refuse to engage with the game" since this take is more a less a condensed version of the Supreme spiel, and as developed above, the game does - willingly - a shit job at demonstrating that her spiel is nonsense (they had to add the "greed" part in an interview released after the game and its only and final DLC!), just like her sockpuppet who supposedly learns how misguided he was in certain routes... only to end with the same ice cream, albeit with a different topping.

However, Dimitri and Sylvain mention how crestless children are disowned in Faerghus... when Dimitri's own uncle is ruling over a domain himself, Ingrid's brothers exist in the background and Gustave is still Baron Dominic's brother, on top of having been the royal master at arms for at least, depending on the route, 3 generations of Faerghan kings.

In a game where Dorothea can blame the Goddess for fighting in a war her bestie started - without anyone pointing this out - it's obvious this verse has unreliable narrators, but after 5 years and having played all routes in both games + a DLC + a dev interview explaining how and why some humans acquired crests...

Tl;Dr :

Reason 1- is most likely the most prevalent why this take exists anon, "because some people refuse to engage with the game" with the added topping of "save for what Supreme Leader and her sockpuppet say that I can use to demonise the characters I don't like".

[happyk44]

Something something Percy wishing he loved Nico in the same way because he can't stand the idea of hurting him, even though Nico has never needed Percy to love him in the same way or even to love him at all.

[sleepsucks]