this is going to sound certifiably crazy but i just had an interaction with the plumber my work contracts that will lead me to writing an older bf!simon version of it tonight
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hi I love your tags so so much! they were so sweet and so interesting and creative and the whole Aphrodite type of beauty thing sounds really interesting do you have any articles and recommendations to read further into it??
-hogoflight
Hello my fine feathered (I am assuming possession of feathers if you are, indeed, capable of flight) @hogoflight! I'm always always happy to hear that people appreciate my frenzied rambling in the tags :D! I have a lot of articles and recommendations :D!! Ancient Greek notions of beauty and representations of it in their art and sculptures is a pretty well studied topic! There isn't any way for us now to know definitively what the beauty standard was (it varied widely from region to region and culture to culture after all) but here are a couple of my favourite reads about Aphrodite and what her representations tell us about idealised beauty!
Probably the most empirically extensive one I can list is Krönström's thesis which compares statues of Aphrodite and literary text referring to both the goddess and mortal women to determine physical ideals for women in five specific eras of Grecian antiquity. Including measurements of the statues there are many descriptions of Aphrodite as 'curvy' with a 'voluptuous figure' and with 'ample buttocks and bosom'.
"When the beauty traits are
described in the texts, they are never extreme or anything that could not be found in normal
people just that they are more beautiful in every aspect. Furthermore, the sculptures’ physical
forms look healthy, they are tall and have distinct curves. Great examples of this are the Knida
sculpture and de Milo (the Melian) sculpture."
Of course, these images are still idealised, and there was still a concept such as 'too fat' or 'too skinny' found in written records (and this thesis even includes analysis of pornographic writings and descriptions of the fashion and stylings of pubic hair of women from different regions!!) but from an interpretational standpoint? There is absolutely no reason why these can't refer to a fuller figure. Height was also a very important factor after all and over the course of many eras, it seems like being well proportioned in addition to the length and appearance of one's hair were the most important factors (and, like Apollo, greater beauty was given to those with curlier hair)
Mireille M. Lee's 'Other Ways of Seeing' essay which talks about the forgotten female viewers of Knidian Aphrodite which is also extremely illuminating on how Aphroditic sexuality and sensuality was perceived totally differently from the well documented male voyeuristic gaze (which was overly preoccupied with the statue's nakedness and therefore over-sensationalised the statue's physical appearance) vs women's perspective on the statue which is more centered on the beauty of simplicity in Aphrodite's garment and decoration and in her power and ability to captivate both in her finery and without it. I think it's especially useful in exploring the importance of finery, jewellry and adornment in representations of Aphroditic beauty.
"Some of the small-scale copies are
heavily jeweled, especially those from the eastern Mediterranean, for example the Hellenistic gilded terracotta statuette in the Çanakkale Museum (Fig. 5) in which the goddess wears, in addition to the armband on her (right) arm, the following: a necklace with multiple pendants; cross-bands extending over both shoulders and hips, with a cascading pendant in the center; a coiled snake armband on the left arm and another snake on her left thigh, and a twisted anklet on her right leg. (The left leg has been restored, and might also have featured an anklet.)"
"Jewelry is especially associated with Aphrodite in Greek literature. As seen above, in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, the goddess adorns herself with gold jewelry, dress-pins, and earrings in the shape of flowers (162–3)..."
Finally, and to me, the most important one in the argument for an interpretation of Hyacinthus as fat, beautiful and fundamentally Aphroditic comes from Brilmayer's brilliant brilliant thesis done on Aphrodite's work and influence in Archaic Greek Poetry which does away with all of that masculine preoccupation with physical proportion, measurement and bodily ideals for a focus on a Sapphic Aphroditic ideal centered in clothing, ornamentation and, most importantly cunning as symbols of Aphrodite and ultimately a feminine idealised form of beauty. This paper also discusses Pandora and Helen in these terms and it is just kind of a wonderful read tbh.
"Combining Homeric and Hesiodic elements
with her own ideas, she [Sappho] alters the way female beauty
is viewed. For example, the Homeric war chariot – a
symbol of male, military prowess - comes to
symbolise the totality of Aphrodite’s power uniting
in itself male and female qualities.
Having addressed the concept of beauty directly,
Sappho then concludes that beauty lies in the eye of
the beholder. With the help of Helen of Troy and her
beloved Anaktoria, Sappho sets out to reinvent the
concept of female beauty as a godlike, subjective
quality that may be expressed in many ways, yet
remains inspired by Aphrodite."
The conclusion to all of this of course is that Aphroditic ideal beauty is much more fluid compared to its stricter Apolline masculine standard. The nuances and understandings of both are of course, constantly being studied, analysed and scrutinised but really, if Dionysus who was both bearded and clean shorn, effeminate, birthed and rebirthed (and twice gestated!) and strongly associated with vegetation can be popularly portrayed as fat and handsome, why can't Hyacinthus?!
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Finally, my OG emo boy! I should have drawn him in a The Smiths t-shirt but NIN is sooo much easier. Yes I have drawn Alpheus in more or less this exact same outfit. Don't @ me, it's easy and I could not be bothered drawing a second pair of boots. Maybe both the Aronnax and Alpheus' squid sub just have floors designed for wetsuit boots, who knows! Also I didn't bother flipping his hair around like I did for Alpheus because at this point Cain does not care about how he looks. and I also just could not be bothered.
Cain: Yeah so I have a job now, but the bloke who arranged it for me warned me that my boss would absolutely feed me to the sharks if I did anything to her daughter
Finn: lmao, what's your job anyway?
Cain: I'm interning with Kaiko Nekton on the Aronnax
Finn: [✓ seen]
Cain was the edgy bad-boy love interest in my favourite book series in high school, and much like with Tallulah, I have just been sticking him wherever he fits in everything else I've gotten into since then. I've even managed to fit the two of them in a HTTYD AU that I never got around to writing.
Anyway he's the other friend mentioned in Finn's bio, the one whose mother walked out on him. He's the youngest of three brothers, and about a year older than Finn. The two of them wavered between inseperable and estranged depending on how recently Finn had talked to his mother and therefore how jealous Cain was feeling about her continued if distant presence in the younger boy's life. Later, once Tallulah showed up and befriended Finn, Cain alternated between being jealous that she spent time with the younger boy and desperate for an in with her because he himself continually managed to offend her.
He eventually manages to win her over with Finn's help, as just a friend, but his ex takes offense to that and turns out to be a far better shot than her mother was when she was chasing after Cain. Finn had already made plans to leave Heckmondwhite at that point, but Tallulah gets pulled from school after being shot leaving Cain with no friends in town and only Finn messaging him. He is not doing so great emotionally at this point, and his father manages to get a friend (Tallulah's dad, who canonically is something of a naturalist and studies mollusks) to figure out a way to get him out of town. Cain does not realise his father's friend is Tallulah's dad because the man is built like comic book wolverine and Cain was picturing someone more along the lines of Loki.
Kaiko agrees to take on an intern because she could use some help keeping her workspace in order and doesn't want to force her kids to do it and end up making them hate the lab. Someone who signed up for it, however, is free game. She's not exactly happy that Liam told the kid about the assault charge, but she did kind of owe the man a favour after how often he covered for her in Uni.
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