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fierrochase-falafel · 3 months ago

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Making a case for Xie Lian's complex morality in TGCF

Finally getting over myself and getting this one out of the drafts...

Disclaimer: Any MXTX book has a very divided fandom on whether practically all the characters are "good" or not- Hua Cheng, Xie Lian, Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, Pei Ming, Luo Binghe. I feel the way MXTX writes is such that our own interpretation of the book can grow to be the very thing we love about it. So naturally I am going to start off by saying this is my interpretation of her work- you can disagree with me, sure, and I'd love to hear other people's thoughts, but I don't think it is something worth calling me wrong over. I'm not claiming to preach the 1 true reading or even claiming to be 'correct'- this is just my interpretation. This doesn't mean I don't find value in alternate interpretations, contradictory or otherwise. Please be nice to me!! :,)

Part I: Smart, but not smart

So anyways...there's this quote in book 3, when Xie Lian reveals Ling Wen as the creator of the Brocade Immortal, where this happens:

Ling Wen crossed her arms and shook her head. “Your Highness, someone like you…sometimes you’re smart, but sometimes you’re also not very smart; sometimes you’re soft-hearted, but sometimes you’re cold-hearted, too.”

And I've always loved this quote, it's arguably one of my favourites, because it emphasises what I think is the core of the story- to ascend is human, to fall is also human. What matters is appreciating that humanity, and nobody embodies this like Xie Lian. MXTX always pits together contradictions like this throughout the story: ascension with falling, soft-hearted with cold-hearted, laughing with crying. Humanity is a series of contradictions, and Xie Lian is the epitome of that. We see him saving a child with regal presence/grace and also drunkenly yelling swear words in a ditch; we see him calmly ascend to godhood at 17 and also almost violently kill a guy for insulting his street performance. Xie Lian is a man who can be kind, calm, endearing and spirited but also vengeful, bitter, jaded and broken. He has been naive and impulsive as well as strategic and controlled.

These differences often seem to happen at the same time in him, even. Xie Lian as a prince was still relatively calm and controlled, but it didn't stop him from being naive and desperate at various points too- sometimes at the same time. His decision in the Land of the Tender (T/W- to stab himself) was arguably a sign of him losing control of his senses yet remaining just on the cusp of controlling his actions. He is holding on to his no-sex cultivation by saying the Ethics Sutra and making the impulsive decision to turn his sword on himself voluntarily but also reacting sexually to the flower demons involuntarily. He is placed in situations where he is distinctly both in and out of control at the same time! Later when he's lying in a ditch (T/W- having stabbed himself AGAIN), there's a lens to it that he's waiting for someone to be kind to him, just once. He's optimistic in giving people a chance- hopeful and altruistic on some level while also being angry and bitter at nobody having helping him yet. In present day he's still impulsive at times but also level-headed, jaded and also optimistic. Hua Cheng fully recognises this in him, and his recognition of Xie Lian's utter humanity is what makes him the one person who truly understands Xie Lian.

"Your Highness, I understand your everything. Your courage, your despair; your kindness, your pain; your resentment, your hate; your intelligence, your foolishness."- Hua Cheng

Part II: Mass murder is...a big deal

Xie Lian is nowhere near perfect, like Feng Xin tends to see him, but neither is he just pretending to be altruistic to make people like him, as Mu Qing tends to believe. Both of them have these ideas in their heads of Xie Lian being amazing or awful, when really Xie Lian has the potential to be both, and that's what makes him, ultimately, just a human above all else. And Hua Cheng gets that about him, more than anyone else, which is important. Hua Cheng loves him and believes in him not because he is inherently, fundamentally good but because of who he is entirely. Part of that 'being' for Xie Lian is trying not to indulge his worst emotions, trying to be good as much as he can, but part of that 'being' includes parts of him that can't be perceived as 'good'. See, no matter how traumatised you are, and even though I'm not judging Xie Lian for his mental state, choking some man on the street almost to death is a no-go, okay.

Xie Lian's will to keep to his principles of what is right and wrong is one thing, but TGCF stretches these boundaries over and over as we watch Xie Lian's view evolve from being a child. I don't think Xie Lian is a 'good person' because he never strays from his values, because he does. Save the common people? The people of Yong'an he intended to mass massacre were the 'common people'. And yes he tried to save them before, and yes it took very little to make him not massacre the people of Yong'an, but the fact that this was something he started at all? He himself used Fangxin to collect the souls from the battlefield- no matter how much he subconsciously wanted to believe in the worth of humanity with his self-stabbing social experiment, he created the conditions necessary to commit mass murder and that in itself is a sign that a part of him meant to go through with it. This isn't just a byproduct of his rage, a response befitting of an uncaring society, no, this is a big deal, and I don't think we can still argue Xie Lian is / has always been a beacon of virtue. Xie Lian isn't just flawed in ways that are easy to forgive, it's not just that he's inherently 'good' with flaws such as impulsivity or naivety that do not really reflect on his moral character. He is also morally flawed, in a way all humans can be but may find it hard to recognise within themselves.

To be fair to the guy, most humans don't have their kingdoms destroyed, their bodily autonomy violated and all their loved ones gone from their lives. Particularly not the first one. For trauma of such epic proportions and disasters of such epic proportions, this intense of a response to commit mass murder isn't shocking. Given his exposure to all this power through his godhood and descent, the power to commit mass murder is less massive-seeming than needing the power to save his own people from it. Given the deaths of so many Xianle inhabitants, this is almost an eye-for-an-eye response: something which some people or cultures may see as morally righteous (the Locrians in Ancient Greece were huge on this, for instance) and some see as morally wrong. However, the way I see it that does not make potential mass murder easily ethically justifiable. MXTX doesn't shy away from giving us insight into Xie Lian's vulnerable and broken mental state and reasons for attempting this, but his actions are still consequential in a huge way. Had he committed the murder; had he not been pulled up by the farmer or had he not found it in him to stop, would we view him as morally good? Could we? What if he did murder the Yong'an citizens but then realised how awful that was then, and spent the rest of his life trying to be good? It feels a bit like a cop-out to say, "well, he didn't do it so that's that", because even the idea, the intention of him doing it and the fact it almost happened raises so many questions about how much blame would be attribute to him if the people of Yong'an really were killed. Even if Xie Lian hadn't done it himself: if he failed to stop Bai Wuxiang from killing them all, for instance. If he were stabbed over and over again but his body couldn't take it, if the rest of the people of Yong'an weren't willing to stab him, and Wu Ming didn't take the bullet then what? It's not like Bai Wuxiang had any reason to go out of his way to call the spirits of Yong'an to Fangxin, for to him the biggest matter was getting Xie Lian to do it and solidify the latter's allegiance to resentment and apathy (just like himself). That would have been done by Xie Lian's hand, and how much the consequences would lay on Xie Lian's head is really difficult to think about. Even if he'd have done his utmost to stop it, but it would've happened atleast partially because of him.

Part III: Morality measured

It's interesting to consider how we measure morality as individuals- somewhere in-between intentions and consequences we diverge, and this tension is what fuels MXTX's conflicts. This is why it's so hard to assign blame in TGCF. Shi Wudu's intentions with the fate-swap were not malicious at all but the consequences for He Xuan were utterly disastrous, and that's on Shi Wudu. Quan Yizhen's intentions were never to make Yin Yu feel bad, but his obliviousness and shining talent hurt Yin Yu anyways. Of course, Yin Yu was the one who kept silent until he couldn't take it anymore, and said the worst possible thing at the worst possible time even if all he wanted was to be nice to Quan Yizhen and not project his feelings onto him. Book 3 contains an increase in these dynamics where the intentions and consequences are SO vastly incongruent that it plays with what morality means, encouraging you to ask: "Who do you believe was in the right?" "Do you think anyone here is or isn't entitled to what they want?" "Is there any way to objectively assign blame here, or are some scenarios too complicated for there to be a direct conflict of right and wrong?" So when it comes to Xie Lian, all that he could have been and all that he is, book 4 naturally stretches the limits of his heart being in paradise.

In conversations I have had or opinions I've seen on this platform and others, people's opinions on how much Xie Lian caused aspects of his own downfall range from "he did absolutely nothing wrong ever" to "he was the epitome of hubris and ignorance", the latter usually accompanied by a favourable analysis towards another character such as Mu Qing. When getting into MDZS, I was reminded of this when seeing Wei Wuxian-Jiang Cheng discourse actually, people talking about Wei Wuxian as a model of goodness who never hurt anyone unless his hand was forced (as if the Wen Chao toruture scene didn't happen) or as an irresponsible and disloyal rascal (as if he wasn't protecting defenseless people including JC's rescuers in the Burial Mounds). This sort of range can be seen with many characters in TGCF: particularly with Xie Lian, Hua Cheng and Mu Qing but you also get many for Jun Wu, He Xuan, Shi Wudu and the like. Xie Lian, as the main character, is possibly the most complicated of them all. The series is in his perspective, he recognises and regrets both his glory days and his fall from grace- the former due to his naivety and the latter due to his resentment. Since then all of the plots he has involved himself in have involved him taking on as much of the pain as physically possible for himself because his desire to help other people flourished again alongside and mingled with his shame and lasting trauma. He is ashamed of both his highest and lowest moments for not being able to offset the consequences, but while you're reading the story it feels very often like there's nothing else he could have done. Partially because (although this is debatable imo) this is somewhat from his perspective despite the 3rd person narrative, so we know what he's like before anyone else. Plus, with how book 2 plays out like a classic tragedy where his greatest strength (will to help his people despite tradition) becomes his greatest weakness, it's the age-old question of how much he can be held accountable for his kingdom's downfall or how much was completely out of his control or in the hands of fate.

One take I remember very strongly that was quite popular was about MXTX's characters being ultimately morally good characters, in which Xie Lian's character was said to not change or develop. Rather, Xie Lian has always been inherently morally good and TGCF is about the world around him not rewarding that goodness yet Xie Lian remaining good and pure-hearted all the way through no matter what, even in his darkest times. While this may be an interpretation some people have, I think it's more complicated than that. Xie Lian's morality was seemingly very clear-cut in book 2 because he had no huge reason not to be 'good'. Yeah sure, he was chastised for saving a child during the lantern festival parade, but nothing was genuinely going to happen to him. He was the crown prince! The stakes for him were never as high, and he had no reason to believe he could fail at all. When put to the test, given the fact he did set up the conditions for the immediate slaughter of Yong'an, I don't think any goodness automatically present in his character was being channelled in his decision. Morality can be as easy as "I want to always do what's right" when you have money and security, but becomes more difficult when you're consumed by grief and rage, or when you've lost everything you once had. Morality is more than an inherent aspect to one's character, and how we perceive someone's moral nature depends on their intentions, their choices, the consequences of those choices and whether they accept responsibility and accountability for the other 3 things.

Part IV: Complexity is the key

Having said all this, I hope it's clear I am NOT saying Xie Lian is an immoral character. In fact, I WOULD argue that he is a 'good' person, that is, a person who embodies what goodness would look like despite all the complications involved. What I'm saying here is that he is a good person not because he always sticks to his standards/beliefs, or even that he always believes in his own standards, but because he chooses to try to believe. In humanity, in the power of his own actions, in the kindness of strangers after he was shown kindness once himself. And this is something earned and learned, not something he had in the beginning. In the beginning it came natural to him because he had the privilege of that as Crown prince. "If something goes wrong, I'll fix it, and everyone around me will always be looking out for my best interests even if I disagree with them. Murder is wrong, following the path to ascension is the ultimate good." etc. etc. When he has to face the world as someone with nothing, those are the experiences that mould his current day understanding of why people do the things they do even if they seem completely morally wrong. Why people would stab someone knowing they would feel the pain, why people would murder someone, why they might steal or rage or drink. And in most cases, it can be hard to judge someone as completely morally wrong for doing actions deemed morally wrong if you believe intention has any bearing on morality.

Xie Lian to me is not inherently good, but someone who chooses to try to be a good person, thus arguably being a good person. And I would defend him as such on that premise, not because his righteous morals have remained static and intact throughout the novels. It isn't that he didn't choose to be good as a child, but he didn't really have to TRY because he hadn't faced the sort of crisis that shook his foundations and forced him to grow, understanding and adapting to the complexity of living in the real world. Where you fail, where falling upon hard times can force you to resort to things you once thought beneath you. Where your actions have power over your circumstances, but your circumstances also hold power over you whether you like it or not. The root of Xie Lian's compelling character, for me, is in his growth from a man with a static morality to a man with moral complexity. A belief in one's principles that accounts for its limits and recognises its flaws in the face of circumstance, and adapts accordingly. It's not like Xie Lian wanted to betray and murder the Yong'an king who was so kind to him, and to actively do that seems pretty horrible until you remember he did it to save a whole group of people, Xianle descendants. Xie Lian still blames himself for this in book 1 even though in this act he saved numerous civilians, but Hua Cheng reminds him that he made that choice for a good reason, and has faith in Xie Lian's choices.

Speaking of the devil...Hua Cheng, even though he loves all of Xie Lian, does not love him blindly or without consideration of the worst parts of himself. He would follow Xie Lian into the abyss of his mental state but still try to help Xie Lian out of the sort of guilt, back from the point of no return. One interpretation of his refusal to let Xie Lian kill Lang Ying is that he wanted Xie Lian to not have Lang Ying's blood on his hands as well. If this would affect any future cultivation or make him feel any more guilty in the future. He also tried to gently tell Xie Lian that he still has believers to calm him down when he sees the white flower. However, to Hua Cheng, whatever Xie Lian would've chosen in the end would still be a decision taken by the same Xie Lian, and Hua Cheng would follow Xie Lian no matter whether he's engaged in the worst parts of himself or not. I think it's very easy for us to assign a specified amount of goodness to a character based on just 1 thing- be it just their intentions or just their choices or just the consequences of their actions. A few sample assumptions I've seen (that do not reflect wider society or anything, these are just opinions I've seen around online): To want to save people is good, therefore Xie Lian is good. Hua Cheng has no qualms about killing 33 gods for Xie Lian, so he must be amoral. But the nature of what is good is variable- under the light of different interpretations, Xie Lian is more morally grey and Hua Cheng is more morally inclined than those assumptions would give them credit for. My point essentially is that many characters, but Xie Lian in particular, are more complicated than we sometimes give them credit for. It's also why he's so easily put up against Jun Wu- someone who is the antagonist and committed several heinous crime, but also parallels what Xie Lian at his worst could have been. If Jun Wu really did repent on everyone he damaged at the end of the novels, you can't call him a good person just based on newfound intent and he can't be so easily forgiven, but to imply alternatively that after all he's done he will always be a bad man and that's that...doesn't sit right with me either. Of course, the question of Jun Wu seems even more complicated somehow, funnily enough.

I think when I first read TGCF years back, Xie Lian is the character who showed me not to judge multidimensional characters or people on a consistent metric of goodness but rather on numerous aspects of how they live that can change over time and leaves room for circumstantial flexibility. I also think that acknowledging complexity in how we view morality in each other can allow us to gain a better understanding of what it is to be a human. And in my view, what makes Xie Lian such a well-written character is that he's nothing if not a human.

#tgcf #xie lian #tgcf meta #hua cheng #hualian #bai wuxiang #white no face #tgcf spoilers #tgcf book 4 #tgcf book 2 #posts originating from my brain #analysis time by me so I can track them in my tags #this has literally been in drafts for like a year- it just felt like the post least other people would also agree with lol #looking over this some of it was maybe worded differently than I would word it now but I didn't really feel like changing it #either I have grown as a meta-writer or completely collapsed...don't have the energy to properly change it now though #for what it's worth I appreciate my past self for writing it though...need my complex characters to stake my life on after all :)

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