#hetalia discussions

[arthurianlegend144]

I think it's actually pretty difficult to pinpoint what's the real age of the nations in Hetalia, because you need to assume a bunch of things that you don't actually know.

For example, France. He is named after Francia, the land of the Franks, who are germanics, is he Germanic then? So what's his relation to Rome and Gaul? And how does this interfere in the year he just showed up?

I have the headcannon that all personifications are born way before the nations they represent actually exist and they all live in a horribly deterministic world. For me it makes sense, like look at America. The United States wasn't a thing, it wasn't even one colony, it was 13, but just one personification? It means that he was already there to represent a country that didn't exist yet.

So what do y'all think?

[goldenstarprincesses]

Henlo! You rebloged my post about France in fanfiction and I wanted to reply to it because I found what you said interesting, but because you used just tags would be goofy to reblog it again so I am sending an ask!

I agree about the cannon not helping, the thing is France got better in the cannon, he is more interesting now. I am not very into Prussia so I don't remember if he got better in later parts. But this thing about him being the worst in PruCan fanfic isn't something I noticed in Brazilian Fanfics or maybe I just don't remember lol

I wrote my post at 1 AM and now I stopped to think about what annoys me about how simple and awful Francis' characterization is and I noticed that it simply doesn't have a reason. When I was writing my fic, I wanted to make him bad in a European kind of way, he is France, France really did a lot of shit, he is kind of goofy and useless now? Yes, but that wasn't the case in the Early Modern era.

I also never saw no one exploring his sexuality. Why is Francis overly sexual? Why is he so dramatic? Why is he always trying to get in someone's pants? Real people have reasons to act overly sexual, they aren't just born this way, but WHY I NEVER SEE NO ONE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS??

Thank you for rebloguing my post and confirming I wasn't just seeing things lol

Hiii! First, I adore your blog. Thank you for introducing me to the world of TurkFra. My eyes have been opened and my mind widened.

I almost think the fandom needed to go through the "dark times" or "dark age" of character interpretation to get where we are now. I know there was for sure a shift happing when I dipped out of the fandom in 2016ish. And when I started occasionally reading fanfics again during lockdown I was blown away with the shifts regarding the characterization of nearly all the characters.

Totally agree with you 100% about interpreting a character like France in a way where he is bad shit person, because of the actual actions of France. Imo its really important to include things like that into every nations characterizing when engaging in more "real life inspired" characterization. Almost have to wonder if the rise in popularity of historical hetalia has had anything to do with this change. While it was sorta a thing in the early years of the fandom, it didn't really seem to have much of a collective following and community. And now it seems that characters of empires/colonists like France/England/America/Russia etc. have shifted away from being written to have very goofy and comically negative traits more in-line with the 2008-2012ish canon to having their negative traits rooted more in the real-life negative habits or traits of the real world nations. I'd also wonder if the average age in the fandom has gone up which has helped characters simply be better developed.

The "bad touch trio" was super common back in the day. It was France/Prussia/Spain. Pretty much the entire characterization for them all ended up being sex addicts who went around well, SA or SH other nations. That mixed with the very silly "everything is based on basic national stereotypes" vibe of early canon I think just made i so a character like France ("nation of love"/the idea that the French are much more sexually liberated then the English or Americans) was very one-sided even when other charters were getting a little bit better of treatment. I also always felt like France was never as popular in the American/English fandom as American and England. So he (and often Canada) would sorta just thrown into things without much development character-wise.

You bring up so many good points!!! legit I have always thought about things like this.

[arthurianlegend144]

YESSS

I made a post recently about this, but I also think there are some people who would try to use nations to study anatomy. Because like... They can't die, so why not? But I don't think the other people would let that happen.

I feel like people that would be angry at the nations would have a reason to do so and the nations wouldn't even blame them for that.

I don't read a ton of Hetalia fics, but cults or anti-nation folk organizations should be more common.

I need more kidnapping and folks trying to gain immortality.

Lab dissection, tests, experiments, and confinement.

I have a need.

[royaltea000]

he could not control the class 😔

[renonv]

Mega dump of fairy au… bear w me here

first comes Antonio’s crush on the human that is Romano

He visits him frequently, just to observe.. but one day Arthur catches wind of this and thinks that Antonio is in kahoots w a human

So he decides to take care of the problem

But oops, Romano actually wasn’t aware of the fairies before 😭 but now he is and he’s small and unfortunately at the moment there is not a way to turn him back

So now he has to live w them…

And of course… Antonio and Romano bond while Romano actively tries to find his way back home

This is all for now, oh! One last thing

The fairy prince,,, w his dragon fly wings

[unhetalia]

I think Nations are generally stronger than the average human. If an adult male can carry up to 80kgs without too much difficulty, a fully grown Nation can do around 3x that amount, no matter their gender.

Alfred is an abberation in that he could carry animals that weigh at LEAST 400kg as a child. This has nothing to do with the US' status as a superpower because it's been that way since he was a child (and also because my headcanon doesn't connect the Nations with their countries in that way).

Without delving too deep as to why, I've always liked the idea of Alfred's increased strength coming with a few caveats -

1) As he's gotten older, his strength has acquired limitations it never had when he was a child - the main one being that using it requires energy. If he wants to be able to lift a car, he absolutely can, but he needs to eat a lot, otherwise his blood sugar will crash. Alfred eats a lot and constantly, and this is part of the reason (the other part is that food is delicious).

2) Alfred is so used to relying on his strength, it's become his weakness without him even realising it.

Alfred views exercise the same way most modern humans view it: he exercises to stay healthy. He hikes, he bikes, he plays sports, and if he thinks he's gained weight he promises himself he'll go to the gym (he doesn't).

Nations like Arthur, Ivan, Erzsebet and Gilbert - to name a few - who don't have super strength, hone their bodies into weapons with purpose. I love to imagine (for many reasons) a sweaty Arthur, hands wrapped in boxing gauze and wearing a tank top ... erm. Punching stuff. I distracted myself there. ANYWAY. They're incredibly disciplined about maintaining their skills and fitness.

Alfred is reliant on his super strength. If it disappears one day, he's actually a lot less capable of defending himself than he thinks.

[pandelacreme]

some of yall like to shit on the fundamental idea of national personifications for being cringe, but the fact i am seeing miku worldwide, east asia yuri, and the whole meme about folks reinventing hetalia every few years really goes to show that people love national personifications.

and i am not saying this to dismiss criticisms of it -- both in terms of media (anti-korean narratives in hetalia, the widespread antisemitism in the countryhumans fandom) and in actual ..literal... propaganda (e.g. bharat mata, lady liberty/uncle sam, etc.)

but.. maybe i'll be torched for this, but i do think what matters most is not the fundamental concept but moreso how people choose to engage with with it. and saying that does not mean disregarding all of the issues listed above! stay critical.

but people just love personifying things. to give an abstract concept human/familiar traits has been human beings' way of understanding and perceiving the world since our very existence. so it isn't surprising that nation/imagined community, something many of us hold intrinsic to forming our sense of self, is often subject to personifying.

and i would argue that this love extends to other media that isn't explicitly about national personifications but has a nationally diverse cast (e.g. yuri on ice, street fighter, etc.). obviously it's not 1:1 as the characters in these media are understood to be ... regular people. but i think it would be a purposefully obtuse reading to not account for the appeal of national representation (hell, in yuri on ice they are literally representing for their nation).

regardless of whether or not you like/dislike national personifications, i just wanted to express that the concept itself is not niche and i don't think it should be surprising that lots of people engage with it through a medium they enjoy.

[timomoe]

What are your thoughts about the split between the immortal personification as an individual and the immortal personification as a symbol of the state? I read your post about Sweden's (the character) cruel behavior in the past and can't say I agree with it. I think there should be a clear separation between the actions of the state and the personification. It's more reasonable that a personification is a representative of the culture and people, not a state's authorities alone. It's also vulnerable to historical bias when certain sources can cast historical events in a very positive or negative light, for instance the idea that Swedish authorities were exceptionally cruel to Finland, which is unusually negative and not a fair representation of the relationship between them in my (Swedish) experience.

Besides, making the personification carry out the actions of the state also means that the fictional character affected real-life historical events. The unfortunate implication is lessening or excusing the actions of the real people who planned and carried out those events.

See, the thing about this is that while Sweden is a personification of the people, and I typically think of nations as such, they're still people. People who can and probably have fallen prey to propaganda, lies, "re-education" in Sweden's case, and other such things.

To be more specific, I'll share more of my hcs regarding him with you.

I like to think there's a 50/50 split between a nation first being a human, dying, and becoming a nation, and a rep just appearing one day. Sweden was the former, born around 900.

He was a very weak and sickly child born to the old Norse - and this is a very bad thing. You may know that Spartans would abandon sick/weak/disabled kids to die, but did you know that the old Norse did the same thing? When Sweden was about 4, his parents abandoned him in the woods, and he died. And then he came back, as he was "chosen" to be the nation of Sweden. His parents then tried to get rid of him 3 more times (abandoned him in the woods one more time, and threw him in the ocean twice).

No one really knew what to make of him or what to do with him. Was he a god? A demigod? An evil entity? Half jotun? No one really knew, so they kept a distance between him and the rest of the group. They kept him busy with menial labor they didn't want to do.

Sweden went unwanted and unloved by his people for the ENTIRE TIME he was a child. And then the kingdom of Sweden properly formed, and he was taken to live with his royals. He was fed there, clothed well, given medical care, education, everything he could ever want. And he began to internalize the idea that he owed his existence to the royalty, NOT the people, as the people had been his biggest antagonists since the day he walked back out of the forest and back to his family. And the government took full advantage of this. Who wouldn't want an undying soldier to do everything they asked?

I would also like to note that I explicitly (/lh) stated that Sweden's cruelty and Finland's abhorrent treatment were not due to any exceptionally horrible history between the two; while Sweden DID colonize Finland, it wasn't as nasty as my out of context headcanons would lead you to believe. As said in that post, Sweden's cruelty towards Finland came from their personalities being exactly opposite, Sweden being hungry for control and dominance, being under intense pressure, and Finland taking the blame or covering for mishaps by other nations in the house, making Sweden believe that he was simply the worst behaved and most in need of a harsh lesson.

As a side note, we also have characters being forced to do things by their government canonically (such as mass killing as a specific example, Russia participated in Bloody Sunday, despite not wanting to) so to me it also seems correct that a government would also take advantage of a young and frightened boy and try to turn him into a soldier fit for whatever purpose they need him for. Even if they are a representative of the people, the government can still force them to do what they want, and probably could make them believe that they do represent the government.

Note that your last point is specifically why I never mention what events, what battles, or other such things Sweden is involved in. It does separate them a little. And I understand that this sort of thing isn't for everyone, and that's perfectly fine.

[alenkijjj]

is das too stupid even for me? mmm idk but i would do anything for herring rn..... it's your @hwsnorthernlights date btw

[arthurianlegend144]

This is absolutely a thing. I hate when people act like they are morally superior because of a goddamn ship. People, we literally ship countries, there is no moral ground to stand on.

I'm a multishipper, but I often avoid engaging with certain ships and fandom spaces if a lot of the fans tend to be hostile antis towards my other ships.

It's possible to be friends with people who don't have the same exact ships, but some people just go out of their way to bash a ship and its shippers every chance they get.

Can we just – be civil to each other, please? It'd make fandoms a much better, more peaceful place.

[arthurianlegend144]

Just random thoughts about the concept of immortality in Hetalia, because I love it.

Being a very old nation like China and Turkey (guys, you don't realize how old that man must be, he just kept changing names :D) must be very… weird? Just like any nation, they watch humans come and go, but imagine being so old that you saw a bunch of other nations die or killed them yourself.

Getting older as a human is already an odd experience, because you see yourself changing as well as the rest of the world, now imagine how it must feel for those very old nations. Seeing everything change so much to the point the others you knew in your youth aren't even there anymore, it's just you. Everything changes, but you are still there.

I am sure the other younger nations feel this too, but I think the older ones, despite being more used to it, probably feel very lonely and tired, because of how old they are. And maybe they feel bad about still being there when the other nations they met in the past didn't make it.

[doomspiral]

I keep going back and forth on what Pru's uniform is in canon and have reached a conclusion that is making me lose my mind.

I already ran this by Proosh and Kasia, but I think it's plausible, given who Himaruya is as a person and an artist, that he drew and color picked Gilbert’s uniform from the Producers "Springtime For Hitler" scene, and not from a uniform guide, old photos, or antiques/repros.

Exhibit A:

I think Gil's is blue. Because this stage lighting was blue. And given he went to school in New York and has watched things like Schnaas shock-horror films, among other insane media references, it isn't off the table for him to make a choice or reference like this.

Anyway, consider this my redaction on claiming he isn't in SS. How I feel about that in the meta is a whole other discussion.

[kitkat-the-muffin]

All roads lead to Dreamtalia

[tianshiisdead]

Trends are funny, aren't they? Yk, Historical Hetalia fans and Hetalia fans who treat countries critically are still in the minority. Perhaps we're overrepresented in the fandom due to a lot of us being adults/a little older, which leads to more content and more polish, but I've seen a strange sort of backlash of people irritated with satirical or darker depictions when these depictions only make up a small percentage of each character's tag. As gently as I can, it's totally fine to be fond of softness and kindness, but if you're in a history and state based fandom, it won't be unusual to see people invested in history applying that darker aspect as well. If I may add, it's an aspect that was more closely referenced in early Hetalia, which leaned more into satire (don't tell me about how dub and sub are diff I watched the JP original).

[ask-nyc-boroughs]

NYC and rest of the state basically solidified its wealth &power in the northeast with the completion of the Erie Canal in 1825.

This was really the beginning of Lynn/NYC’s present “girl boss” arc as she began to get a taste of excessive power in this era.

Also the beginning of her rather let’s say tumultuous relationship with Will/ Albany. The Erie Canal already brought these two cities closer by making trade even easier to conduct along the Hudson River.

Will tends to be rather reserved, and very stubborn- talking to him is like scratching nails across a chalkboard. A lot of people calls him boring (and a pain in the ass cause he tries to act impartial but he’s always partial to Lynn- even when she’s being a nuisance and driving him crazy). Sometimes Lynn can be let’s say overly ambitious to a fault that can harm everyone else, and Will tends to pull the breaks on that which is often the source of conflict between them. They’re opposites fundamentally. But they compliment each other. Lynn can get him out of his shell, and actually be sociable. Will keeps Lynn in reality lol, and he is a calming influence on her most of the time.

[ifindus]

Scotland: We should at least ask. Norway, what do you think?

Norway: No comment.

I don't know if anyone outside the UK or Norway has heard about this, but Orkney has been looking into other forms of govern and they suggested they become a territory of Norway, operating independently. The UK has since said that this is unacceptable and will NOT be happening regardless. The official Norwegian response was basically just "this is an internal affair, no comment".