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david-talks-sw · 1 year ago

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Debunking more myths in the GFFA: the Jedi and the clones.

I wrote a post debunking the various myths about how "the Jedi condone slavery", a while ago. Something I had omitted (because it's such a big topic) was the following two statements that concern the clone troopers' relations with the Jedi:

"The clones were genetically bred to have accelerated growth, so they're technically child soldiers."

"The clones were slaves of the Jedi."

Both the above statements are inaccurate, let's explore why.

"The clones were child soldiers"

Let's get the easy one out of the way first, because it's a logic that cuts both ways. If age is our only determination of the maturity of a Star Wars character, then Grogu is not a baby. He is aged 50, and is thus a middle-aged man.

Who cruelly eats the babies of a woman...

... and knowingly tortures animals for his own sadistic pleasure.

Of course, I'm kidding. Grogu's none of the above things.

The narrative frames him as a cute baby who does innocent baby stuff. Him eating the eggs is played off as comedic, as is him lifting with the frog. To this day, some fans still call him "Baby Yoda".

Conversely, despite the clones being 10/14-years-old, their actions, behaviors, way of thinking, sense of humor, morals etc, are all those of an adult.

Like, Ahsoka is technically older than Rex in this scene.

The scene doesn't portray them as peers, though. This isn't written as "a teen and a tween talking". No, Rex looks, acts and behaves like a grown-up and is thus framed as such by the narrative.

You can make the argument "they're child soldiers", but (unless you're doing so in bad faith) you'd also have to argue that "Grogu's an adult".

"The clones were the Jedi's slaves"

Nope. For all intents and purposes, they're in the same boat as the Jedi, who George Lucas stated multiple times had been drafted to fight in the war.

Again: both the Jedi (monk/diplomats untrained for fighting on a battlefield) and clones (literally bred en masse only to fight) are being forced to fight by Palpatine and the Senate.

Though, on paper, the clones were commissioned by Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas, it was actually done by the Sith (who either manipulated or assassinated Sifo-Dyas then stole his identity, depending on the continuity you choose to adhere to). The rest of the Jedi had no idea these clones were being created.

So while the clones are slaves... they're not owned by the Jedi.

They're the army of the Republic, they belong to the Senate. This isn't exactly a scoop, they refer to the clones as something to purchase...

... and manufacture.

As far as the Senate’s concerned, clones are property, like droids.

Like there's a whole subplot in The Bad Batch about this very point: after the war, the clones are decommissioned and left out to dry because they literally have no rights, they served their purpose.

The only trooper to ever canonically blame the Jedi for the clones' enslavement is Slick, who the narrative frames as having been bribed and manipulated by Asajj Ventress into betraying his comrades.

Also, the only canonical Jedi shown to ever be mean, dismissive or mistreating the clones in any way, is Pong Krell.

And it's eventually revealed he’s in fact a full-on traitor, hence why the story frames him as an antagonistic dick from the moment he's introduced. He doesn’t represent the Jedi in any way.

We know this because the other Jedi we’ve been shown are always prioritizing their clones’ lives over theirs, if given the chance.

Finally, if we wanna get even more specific... as Commander-in-Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR), the clones belong to Palpatine.

Palpatine who is a Sith Lord.

Palpatine who arranged for the creation of the clones and had them all injected with a chip that would activate upon hearing a code-word...

... and forced them to murder their Jedi without hesitation or remorse.

When you bear all that ⬆️ in mind and when you read this quote by George Lucas...

"The Jedi won't lead droids. Their whole basis is connecting with the life force. They'd just say, 'That's not the way we operate. We don't function with non-life-forms.” So if there is to be a Republic army, it would have to be an army of humans." - The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020

... narratively-speaking, everything falls into place.

Sidious knows that:

If he orchestrates a war designed to thin the Jedi's numbers, corrupt their values and plunge the galaxy into chaos...

If he wants to draft the Jedi - peace-keeping diplomats who’d never willingly join the fray - to fight in his war...

... then the only way they won't resist the draft and abstain from fighting is if they think joining the conflict will save lives.

So he creates a set of cruel, sadistic villains for them to face, opponents who will target innocent civilians at every turn...

... and instead of lifeless droids, he prepares for the Jedi an army of men... living, mortal people who, despite being well-trained, will be completely out of their league when facing the likes of Dooku...

... Ventress...

... Grievous...

... Savage Opress...

... or the defoliator, a tank that annihilates organic matter.

Thus, in order to save as many clone and civilian lives, the Jedi join the fray despite knowing that doing so will corrupt their values.

And as the war rages on, a bond of respect is formed between the two groups.

Clearly, the Jedi don't like the fact that the Republic is using the clones to fight a war, but for that matter, they don't like being in a war, in fact they advocated against it.

However, it's happening regardless of their issues with the idea or personal philosophies. Said The Clone Wars writer Henry Gilroy:

"I’d rather not get into the Jedi’s philosophical issues about an army of living beings created to fight, but the Jedi are in a tough spot themselves, being peacekeepers turned warriors trying to save the Republic."

And bear in mind, the Jedi are basically space psychics, the clones are living beings that they can individually feel in the Force...

... so the Jedi feel every death but need to move on, regardless, only being able to mourn the troopers at the end of every battle.

We see this in the Legends continuity too, by the way.

(that is, when the writers actually try to engage with the narrative)

Also, if you ask the clones, they’re grateful the Jedi have their backs.

When Depa Billaba voices her concerns about how the war is impacting the Jedi's principles, troopers Grey and Styles are quick to make it clear how grateful they all are for the Jedi's involvement:

So the clones aren't the Jedi's slaves. If anything, they're both slaves of the Republic (considering how low the Jedi's status actually is in the hierarchy).

Only I'd argue the clones have it much, much worse.

The Senate sees the Jedi as "ugh, the holier-than-thou space-monk lapdogs who work for us"... but a Jedi has the option to give up that responsibility. They can leave the Order, no fuss or stigma.

A clone trooper cannot leave the GAR! If they do, they’re marked for treason and execution. Again, they’re not perceived as “people”.

And it doesn’t help that the Kaminoans, the clones’ very creators, see the troopers as products/units/merchandise. A notion that the Jedi are quick to correct whenever they get the chance.

How The Clone Wars writers describe the clones' relationship with the Jedi.

George Lucas hasn’t spoken much about this subject aside from the quote from further up. But to be fair... the Prequels aren’t about the clones’ dynamic with the Jedi, so it makes sense that he wouldn’t talk on that subject so much.

He did mention that part of The Clone Wars’ perks is that he could:

“Do stories about some of the individual clones and get to know them.”

But that’s as far as it gets.

So for this part, I'm just gonna let Dave Filoni, showrunner of The Clone Wars and the upcoming series Ahsoka, and TCW writer Henry Gilroy - both of whom worked closely with Lucas - take the wheel. They make themselves pretty clear on how the clone/Jedi dynamic is meant to be viewed.

Here’s Henry Gilroy:

"In my mind, the Jedi see the clones as individuals, living beings that have the same right to life as any other being, but understand that they have a job to do."

"The clones see the Jedi as their commanding officers on one hand, but also, at least subconsciously, they look to them for clues to social/moral behavior."

"Some clones may find themselves getting philosophical leadership from the Jedi that helps them answer some of the deeper questions of life."

"We thought this was a great opportunity to show how the Jedi interact with clones. Specifically, Yoda in a teaching role of the clones, who were socially new, who kind of grew up— who were created to fight, and he really broadened their horizons and helped them realize there was a great big universe out there that was bigger than just fighting and killing."

And here’s Dave Filoni’s comments:

"I truly believe that the Jedi try to humanize their clones and make them more individual, as Henry says."

"I think we saw that in Revenge of the Sith, when the Clones were colorful and named under the Jedi Generals, and then in the final shots of the film with Palpatine and Vader near the new Death Star, the ships are grey, the color and life is sucked out. The Stormtroopers are only numbers and identified by black and white armor or uniforms in A New Hope."

"The soldiers have become disposable to the Emperor."

"That is something the Jedi would never do."

"Yoda teaching the clones much like he taught Luke. ‘Cause that was kind of natural for [the Jedi], a natural instinct to take to these clones like they’re students."

None of the above quotes from two different writers of The Clone Wars, who had many interactions with George Lucas, frame the Jedi and the clones’ relationship in a negative way.

How much more proof do we need that "the clones were slaves of the Jedi” isn’t the intended narrative?

My point being that while the clones' ordeal is indeed horrible, the Jedi have nothing to do with it. The narrative of The Clone Wars always frames it as the fault of the Sith, the Senate and the Kaminoans.

If you go by the intended narrative, the Jedi were the clones' teachers and brothers-in-arms. The clones and the Jedi were not just comrades.

They were friends.

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giornosaiyaman · 2 years ago

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unpopular opinion TCW time

AV Club’s Kevin Johnson once said he feels TCW starts going downhill post season 2, and I unfortunately agree with him-though he has changed his opinion over time.

For context, I hate Dave Filoni and love Genndy Tartakovsky.

Here is my take on TCW:

The TCW movie is underrated and a solid B+. Yes it has animation issues, but it also functions really well as the series pilot. It does a great job developing Anakin and Obi Wan’s friendship, Anakin and Ahsoka’s relationship, and Ahsoka’s psychology. She’s impulsive, hotheaded, slightly rebellious, and insecure. She really feels like a walking talking avatar of George’s love for teen rebellion-the Korra to Luke’s Aang. Her rebellious nature forces Anakin to mature, just like George wanted when he assigned her to him-yes really.

Throughout the movie, Ahsoka overcompensates for her insecurity. This overcompensation grates on Anakin throughout the film. Eventually, he asks her why she’s acting so unruly, prompting her to reveal her insecurity. This motivates Anakin to reassure her, which again, solidify their big brother little sister relationship and reveal Anakin’s maturity and compassion to the audience.

This scene is hands down the best scene in the film.

To make matters better, a phenomenal voice cast does a great job brining all of this solid character work to life. Although his British accent could be better, James Arnold Taylor brings so much charm, life, and humor to Obi wan. Matt Lanter injects Anakin with infectious senses of humanity and charisma, and Dee Bradley Baker does masterful work as the clones-even though his casting choice is problematic to say the least.

And of course Ashley Eckstein absolutely shines as Ahsoka. She delivers a truly phenomenal child hero performance, second only to Mark Hamil himself imo.

Now onto the show proper.

IMO Season 1 of TCW is the best of the bunch. Yeah, it makes some narrative mistakes-it sucks how Filoni nerfed the regular battle droids and grievous-but, for the most part, it didn’t mess with the prior established canon-with the exception of the godawful lair of Grievous-The writing team was-dare I say it-CREATIVE. A Filoni series being creative? What a novel concept.

Back then, the great Henry Gilroy-who worked on Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go and Batman TAS-and Steven Melching-who would later work on Transformers Prime-headed up the writing. They alongside Lucas reigned in Filoni. Furthermore, they, alongside talented writers such as the great Paul Dini and Katie Lucas, delivered some really well done one of stories: Tresspass, Ambush, Rookies, Hostage Crisis, Cloak of Darkness, the Malevolence trilogy, Jedi Crash, the Ryloth arc, mystery of a thousand moons and so on. Gilroy-who unfortunately penned lair of Grievous-and Melching had years of experience writing comics and episodes of tv animation under their belts, and you can feel that experience all over TCW season one. It feels like a really well done SW anthology comic in animated form. I wish the entire show was like that. No bloated arcs, no messing with the prior established canon, no rehashing material from Micro series. Just fun, thoughtful, one of episodes. Once Gilroy and Melching left, Filoni took over, and things go to poop.

Not to mention, to paraphrase, Anti Anakin, Ahsoka genuinely shines in season one and season 2-with the exception of lightsaber lost-as the audience surrogate. Ahsoka works larelgy because the writers try to make her feel like an actual teenager rather than an idealized version of a teen. That said, her depiction can unfortunately come off as somewhat stereotypical and dated by modern standards. Furthermore, the writers occasionally take her “hot headed, rebel teen” character too far-think her stupid interrogation of Gunray for instance. Before we discuss the later seasons, let’s discuss the animation, although the movie and show suffer from stiff, weightless, animation and unimpressive posing, the actual artwork-delivered by the great Killian Plunkett-looks fantastic. When adapting Genndy’s style to 3D, the crew wisely tweaked his designs to look like oil painted wooden puppets-a la Team America-and the style simply works. It fits SW’s living painting aesthetic and pulp sci fi tone like a glove, and it straddles cg animation’s weakness of making human beings look like plastic toys. Furthermore, the crew supports the style with beautiful matte painted environments, and painterly lighting and character texturing-those last two elements were delivered by the truly talented Joel Aron in the later seasons.

Now back to the writing.

Season 2 has some really good episodes, but it’s also when Filoni’s gigantic ego, obsession with Ahsoka, and lack of creativity start rearing their ugly heads.

The good stuff in season 2 includes the cad bane trilogy, the boba fett arc, bounty hunters, the Zilo beast two parter, the last 3 episodes of Geonosis-landing on point rain bores me, and the deserter. Unfortunately, it also contains garbage like the mando stuff-I don’t like Karen Travis, but it doesn’t excuse what Filoni did to her, and a direct rehash of microseries in the form of the stupid cat and mouse.

Season 3 has good eps like heroes on both sides, clone cadets, but the cracks really begin to expand here. The show rips off microseries during the mortis arc-Anakin has ANOTHER vision of Vader, really Filoni-Ahsoka begins to transform from a really well done if dated portrayal of a teenager into a downright problematic “hero” whose faults go unpunished by the narrative, the show bastardizes the original backstory of the night sisters, and character assassinates Quinlan Vos.

Season 4 features the show stopping umbara, maul, Ventress, and Obi wan undercover arcs-that last one loses points for throwing in a pointless Dooku fight. However, it also throws in THREE unimaginative and pointless Anakin vs dooki fights, rips off microseries AGAIN with the water war arc, and fails to recognize ahsoka’s cold behavior to Anakin during the zygerrian arc.

Season 5 rips off microseries AGAIN during the youngling arc-for the record I like that arc, but also featured the solid if a bit bloated onderon arc, and the maul and Ahsoka arcs.

I want to love those last two arcs, but they are built on some immoral story choices. The maul arc relies on s2′s mando story and the s3 nughtsisters arc-both of which steamrolled the eu. Meanwhile, the wrong jedi arc, which has my favorite moment in all of fiction-Ahsoka leaving the order, character assassinates Barris.

S6 features the eu steamrolling fives arc, the problematic Clovis arc, the ok jar jar arc, and the darth bane disrespecting yoda arc.

Let’s not bother with Rebels seasons 2-4 or TCW Season 7.

It’s a shame that such a talented cast and crew were squandered on a talentless asshole like Filoni.

#anti Dave filoni #pro Henry Gilroy pro Steven Melching #TCW 2008 review

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