#harper explains

[cpvnksabm]

Things I Think RTC Did Well In Disability Rep (in 2016-2018 scripts)

exactly what it says in the title. i'm not touching on the pre-2016 scripts because i dont know enough about them and i'm not talking about the 2022 script changes for obvious reasons.

disclaimer, this is all my own opinion as one disabled person, other people may feel differently and that's fine.

Ricky's disability in general

Ricky is a young person who uses mobility aids. He can't talk, implicitly due to dysarthria. He has a degenerative disease, specifically a rare disease which is heavily implied to be neuromuscular. And it's stated outright that his disease is lifespan-limiting and that he's dealt with his own mortality in life.

And all of these things are very underrepresented!

I'm not going to claim that all of these things were explained perfectly or explored in detail in the canon. But just having them on-stage, in my opinion, is a big deal in itself. And it's also a big deal that Ricky is a main character, who has the same character depth as the abled characters, when so many characters like him are reduced to ableist props for other characters' story arcs.

I understand there's been some confusion about the specifics of ricky's disability, in the fandom. And I know part of the confusion comes from the fact that the script didn't explain everything, and glossed over most of the details. But honestly? The fact that so many RTC fans didn't initially understand parts of his disability - such as the fact that it's likely neuromuscular, or the fact that his inability to speak is implied to have a physical cause - just makes it more important that these things were represented on-stage in the first place. They're so underrepresented, little-known, and poorly-understood that many people don't pick up on them even when they are represented!

Just showing these underrepresented disabled experiences on-stage has potential to help a lot of disabled people feel seen, which matters.

Ricky as a victim of ableism

Okay, this one might be controversial, but i'm speaking from the heart here.

Ableism is a huge part of Ricky's backstory and character - the whole Zolar thing is stated to be a coping method to deal with isolation & cruelty. Throughout the musical Ocean infantilizes him in dialogue, and in her song she argues point-blank that he has no reason to be alive due to his disability. The rest of the choir aren't perfect either - sure, nobody else says anything ableist, but they're all bystanders to Ocean's overt ableism, nobody really holds her accountable or acknowledges that what she's saying is fucked up. On top of that, Ricky says after his song that nobody listened to him while he was alive which, combined with the whole choir being shocked upon learning about his deeper thoughts, pretty clearly implies that they all ignored him previously.

And it's so fucking realistic.

Look. I'm not saying that Ocean's ableism was ever handled perfectly in canon. I am saying that when I saw a post-2022 production with the able-bodied Ricky script, I got a sinking feeling in my gut when we got to *that* part of WTWN and I realized the ableist lines had been removed/replaced. Because facing ableism is a huge part of my disabled experience that I barely ever see even acknowledged in media, let alone represented accurately, and the more I face ableism in real life the more I feel I can relate to Ricky, and that is so important to me.

Depicting bigotry in fiction is always difficult to do right - it's a rough balance between "this is not okay and we should not imply that it is" and "many people believe this is okay, wrongly, and that needs to be shown accurately". Sure, you can make it so the antagonist character is overtly ableist and every sympathetic character explicitly says "I do not agree with your ableist views!" and that way it's 100% clear that the ableist actions are wrong. But real ableism isn't just like that. Sometimes real-world ableism is a group of perfectly nice people who just never think about the disabled kid, or how he's doing or whether someone should talk to him, because they've been taught to ignore him. And sometimes it's a girl who swears to God that she's a good person, who considers herself an ally, whose voice stays sweet and kind as she switches between talking to her disabled classmate like he's 5 years old and claiming he doesn't deserve to live.

I think the brutal honesty of ableism in RTC is important. Yeah, it's pretty fucked-up when you think about it - Ocean openly sings about why Ricky shouldn't live, every ableist character is presented sympathetically, nobody is ever actually held accountable for ableism on-stage - and that's just like real life. I'd like to think that it could act as a wake-up call to some abled fans, who are similar to Ocean (+ others) and who could learn to understand the flaws in their worldview when they realize you're not supposed to agree with what she says in WTWN. But even more importantly than that... it makes me feel seen, in a way that I couldn't feel if Ricky's experiences with ableism weren't shown so realistically.

SABM, like, all of it

Do I even need to explain this? Disabled person has a whole furry-themed musical number. That's cool as fuck. God I wish that were me.

Okay, seriously. I think SABM is wonderful and important for a number of reasons. Like all of the character songs, it's important for expanding Ricky's character - not only is it a main glimpse into his interests, but it sets up for us to learn more about his personality and the selflessness that would later lead to the touching Savannah scene. It shows us his deep internal thoughts - it confirms that he has deep internal thoughts - and explains how he's been coping with the ableism he faces.

SABM is weird. I like that. I like that Ricky gets to have weird interests and a weird self-insert fantasy, while being disabled - I like that being disabled isn't treated as his "weird" trait, such that giving him weird interests as well would be "too much". Because that happens a lot! Disabled people are expected to be completely average in every other way to "make up" for our disability. And, yeah, SABM is kind of horny - and that makes sense! Ricky is a teenager, he's in his final year of high school, most people his age do have sexual fantasies. Other characters also reference sex in various ways so it makes sense that Ricky would. And I think it makes sense for SABM to be weird because part of Ricky's backstory is being ignored and isolated due to his disability - that's the sort of thing that, long-term, can leave people without a clear reference point for 'weird' and 'normal', or just leave them having no reason to care about being 'weird' because they're ignored anyway.

But also, if I may get analytical for a moment. Throughout the musical until SABM, Ricky faces a lot of ableism from Ocean, which isn't really commented on - she infantilizes him, both by assuming he's incapable of deeper thought/understanding and by being shocked at the idea that he might talk about porn or sex, and she also argues that he doesn't have a reason to live with his disability. Ocean is a flawed character and an unreliable narrator, but for the first half of the musical, you could be forgiven for thinking maybe you're supposed to agree with her and view Ricky as some pitiable child.

And then in comes Ricky's introduction, followed by SABM. And clearly Ricky isn't mentally a child, in any way - he's developed a whole complex story with deep worldbuilding so that he can imagine himself having sex with alien catgirls. But it also makes it clear that Ricky does have valuable ideas to contribute and, heck, just things he enjoys - which feels significant to me when a few songs ago it was being argued that there's no reason he should be alive.

As I said earlier, the ableism Ricky faces is extremely realistic and relatable to me. And SABM makes it clear that Ocean's ableist views about him are untrue and harmful, without breaking the realism for her to turn directly to the audience and say "By the way, you aren't supposed to agree with most of what I say about Ricky - I'm an unreliable narrator speaking due to my own biases!"

Basically - SABM is a subtle deconstruction of all the ableist things said to/about Ricky throughout the musical. It's an incredibly important part of the musical and an important way to represent a disabled character. And it's also a fucking bop.

Why this is important

Representation matters. That's a concept that has been explained a lot, by people who can articulate it better than I can - I won't fully explain here, just google "why does representation matter".

Look - over the years, many aspects of RTC's disability rep have been criticised in various ways. And a lot of that criticism is completely justified. Many topics were handled confusingly, not fully explained, and not properly explored like they could have been; erasure was pretty much baked into the script, with Ricky becoming able-bodied in the afterlife, and while some productions have tried to alleviate this by retaining his mobility aids nobody has found a workaround for his inability to speak in a genre where it's important for him to sing; and in recent years his disability has been entirely erased from the script, in an incredibly ableist way.

I'm not saying RTC is perfect; far from it. But if I thought there was no value in RTC's disability rep, and Ricky was just some offensive caricature, I wouldn't be in the fandom.

In fact, it's because I love Ricky and see him as valuable disability rep that I think it's important to criticise the parts of the musical that aren't handled well & the issues with disability erasure. RTC had good disability rep - that's why I think it should be improved, why it can be improved, and why i think we should fight against erasure. That's a big part of why I hate the 2022 script changes! Because they erased something that was important to me!

A lot of the things I loved about RTC in the first place are things that I frequently see glossed over, or downright erased, in fanworks. I think sometimes people don't realize the significance of these details, so I wanted to share why I think it's important! Some of these details really need more exploration and more love!

Overall, I think it's important to understand that media can't always be sorted neatly into "good representation" or "bad representation". And that talking about the good things and criticising the flaws can both be important. I really wanted to share my perspective on this topic. Thanks for reading!

[varpusvaras]

How Dick actually found out:

Roy: Thank you for coming over, I really needed the help since my partner is out of town

Dick: It's okay! You know, you have to introduce us at some point, since- is that my sweater?

Roy: Uh

Dick: It is! My Gotham U sweater! Okay, it was Bruce's at first and I stole it, but he hasn't asked for it! I thought Jason stole it from me!

Roy: Uhh

Dick: Yeah, Jason definitely stole it, it even smells exactly like him! I knew it was him- why is it in your house?

Roy: Uhhhhhh

Dick:

Roy:

Dick: *looks around, sees all of the things that are definitely Jason's all around the house*

Dick: Are you kidding me?

Roy: Dick I can explain

Dick: Explain what? That you are dating my brother??

Roy: ...yeah, exactly that

Dick: ...get out

Roy: what-

Dick: I said get out!

Roy: This is my house!

Dick: Wrong! This is my brother's house, since he lives here, and I'm telling you to get out of my brother's house!

[blackbatcass]

Dickroy is truly about the PLEASE DON’T LEAVE ME versus PLEASE DON’T ASK ME TO STAY. it’s the I LOVE YOU IT’S OKAY IF YOU DON’T SAY IT BACK versus DON’T LET ME GET TOO CLOSE I’LL RUIN YOU. PLEASE DON’T SAY YOU LOVE ME. PLEASE DON’T MAKE ME SAY IT BACK. YOU KNOW YOUKNOWYOUKNOW. I CAN’T LOVE YOU THE WAY YOU DESERVE. the WHY CAN’T YOU STAY STILL LONG ENOUGH FOR ME TO LOVE YOU versus I’LL DO ANYTHING FOR YOU BUT BEING LOVED HURTS TOO MUCH.

PLEASE DON’T GO. versus. PLEASE DON’T LET IT BE MY FAULT

I LOVE YOU. ILOVEYOUILOVEYOU

[glitter-stained]

Ngl kinda funny to me as a jayroy shipper when people say Lobdell invented jayroy since in my eyes neither of these people are jayroy. Like yeah, they name are Jason and Roy. Lobdell's Roy does have a bow. That's kinda it.

(and also like so much hate for that man for giving such a terrible image of a relationship that could have such cool narrative growth, complexity etc. not even as a ship just as a dynamic. But obviously that would require someone with the ability to write complexity and growth, and a mesure of skill.)

[columboposting]

Can I just say that this is one of my favorite clips from any Torchwood episode ever

[mysterycitrus]

if you have the time and are feeling up to it, i hope you can grace us with some roy and lian for father’s day 🤲

it’s a lil late but…. having charged but age appropriate conversations with ur emotionally intelligent eight year old …. beloveds…..

[tiger-in-the-flightdeck]

.... Roy, you're supposed to be explaining why people think Connor's gay, not why they think you're gay.

[iotsketches]

stills from yesterday’s post

watch the video here

more stills under the cut

[booasaur]

Gotham Knights - 1x12

[strangesmallbard]

"The Cub and the Crow.” Sounds like a cautionary tale. As it probably should. ↳ BALDUR'S GATE 3 — JAHEIRA, TORLYNN, AND AN OLD INSIDE JOKE

[nyoomfruits]

... thinking about dad!oscar/dj!lando again.....

[cpvnksabm]

@ rtc fic writers

you really do have to research neuromuscular disabilities if ricky significantly appears in your fics. few to no exceptions. sorry.

ricky potts is important disability representation and, more specifically, he has a rare degenerative neuromuscular disease. this specific representation is important and therefore it's important to depict his neuromuscular disorder accurately. all disabilities are different and it's a huge problem when people, not understanding and/or not wanting to research neuromuscular disorders specifically, just give him any disability while erasing the one he canonically has, and think it's fine just because "well he's still disabled isn't he?".

i think canon (as in 2015-2018 scripts) is a good starting reference point for depicting ricky accurately because again, the specific disability he has in canon is important to represent. but canon also only seriously depicts him as disabled very briefly on-stage and spends most of the musical doing singing and dancing that he wouldn't be physically capable of if he was alive. if you're depicting ricky realistically for longer than canon does then you will have to do outside research to see how his disability would likely impact him, because you're definitely not getting a full picture from him using crutches for 2 minutes onstage.

i think sometimes people assume they don't have to worry about researching to write ricky, because they don't think he's a major enough character for his disability to become relevant - or, more upsettingly, i think sometimes people make ricky a more minor character so that his disability won't become relevant, because that way they don't have to do research.

unfortunately there's one big issue here, which is that if you haven't done the research, how can you know when his disability will be relevant?

ricky has a complex disability that would realistically affect his whole life in varying ways and what we see in canon is only a surface level view. let's say you're writing a fic where you don't need to bother researching for ricky because his only appearance is going out for lunch with the choir - did you know that neuromuscular disorders, especially ones that cause difficulty speaking or an inability to speak (which ricky has!), often cause difficulty swallowing? this would affect his diet and in fact potentially imply that he uses a feeding tube (which is also implied by one of ocean's lines in WTWN), making it very relevant when getting lunch with the choir!

of course that lunch idea is just a hypothetical example, and it's just one example. what i'm saying here is that there are many activities that seem simple, that you wouldn't even think twice about in relation to ricky, that would realistically be complicated by his disability.

of course not every fic has to tackle disability in detail, or even has time to do so, but it's noticeable when something happens where ricky's disability would impact him and it just isn't mentioned. it's something that can accidentally slide into disability erasure, which is a problem, and it also just makes it really obvious when the writer wasn't aware of something or didn't think very hard about it. heck this post is mainly directed at fic writers but i've even seen headcanon posts where it's been obvious the OP needed to do a little more research.

so basically, when i say you need to research to write ricky accurately & understand his disability, i don't just mean that if you're planning on writing a fic that significantly involves his disability you should research for that fic specifically. i think that you should do some basic research before you plan on writing anything, just to make sure you understand his disability when you're active in the fandom. and then if his disability becomes more relevant in a fic - which you will be able to recognise due to the basic research you've already done - you can do more research as needed.

besides, even if it turns out you never write anything where this is relevant, there's no harm in learning more about neuromuscular disease and disability in general! it might become useful information in real life at some point, or it might just be good to know.

[disco-troy]

Roy is Red X confirmed

[covertblizzard]

Teen Titans Chronology

Era 1: Superhero Names & Funky Nicknames

The Brave and the Bold (1955) #54 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #60 Showcase #59 Teen Titans (1966) #1-20 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #83 Teen Titans (1966) #21-22

This is the peak silly era. Goofy nicknames, (mostly) goofy one-off villains, occasional team-up, etc. As far as I'm aware, none of their real names are ever mentioned within their own title and it's just their superhero names.

It starts with Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad (in the first Brave and Bold), with Wonder Girl being the first addition when they are officially first called the Teen Titans (in the second Brave and Bold), so I'm counting the Fab Foursome (Cool Quartet? Fantabulous Foursome?) of them as the starting point. They're a team up to #18 with occasional guests from Speedy (#4 - with notes that there were an "avalanche of mail" asking for his inclusion, #11), Beast Boy (#6 - rejected by the Teen Titans and apparently previously the Doom Patrol for not having a guardian's permission slip, interesting note that he already had movie offers here), and Starfire (#18 - definitely not who you're thinking of and instead a Russian boy).

Issue #19 is when they become "Fab-Four-Sometime Five" where Roy joins and Garth takes a break, so the main four changed. There are then two more team ups with Jericho (#20 - also not who you're thinking of but some boy name Joshua) and with Hawk and Dove (#21).

I think only Mad Mod became a long-term villain (?) but the list includes: Mr Twister, the Astounding Separated Man, Beast-God of Xochatan, Akkuru, Ding Dong Daddy Dowd (Demon Dragster), Diablo, The Ant (less villain and more blackmailed by Mr Krask), Mr Baltzer, Mad Mod, Honey Bun (and a spy Karl Larner), Captain Tiger, The Scorcher, The Gargoyle (who makes a reappearance in #35), Captain Rumble, The Dimensional Caper (from Dimension X), Le Blanc, Punch (Sylvester Sepastopol), Fat Cat.

Era 2: Real Names, New Teammates, Mr Jupiter, and Solo Storylines

Teen Titans (1966) #22-31 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #94 Teen Titans (1966) #32-34 World's Finest Comics #205 Teen Titans (1966) #35-39 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #102 Teen Titans (1966) #40-43

This part of the story starts to have a bit more personality and it is a lot more character-driven as opposed to (short) plot-driven stories. Their real names are finally used and they're shown to hangout as civilians and not just superheroes.

This starts at the end of #22 when Donna Troy is given a name, a backstory (one of many), a new apartment, a roommate Sharon, and a makeover. Dick and Wally was previously named in #83 of The Brave and the Bold, but Roy gets named in #24. In a way, this makes Donna feel very much like the living center of the Titans for me, her development begins with the Titans and she's intrinsically tied to it very personally (and this also feels reflected in how Garth views Donna as the "TITANS FOREVER" among all of them). After all, at this point, there's no separate comics she is in unlike the other 4 main titans. She is also the only single character that appears in every single comic with no exception (other than the very first, but they weren't known as Teen Titans then either).

There aren't so much guests as much as two new permanent members - Lilith who joins right before Mr Jupiter comes into the picture in #25 and Mal who joins right after in #26. During this time, 6 of them are mostly all there and are led and trained by Mr Jupiter. The longest disappearance is when Dick goes to college (from #25-32 except for a single appearance in #28) and occasional disappearance when they stay behind to take care of Mr Jupiter's lab (sometimes it is unexplained but I chalk most disappearance up to this). From #26 onwards, all but 6 issues are not related to Mr Jupiter (#28-29 led by Garth, #31 led by Wally, #34 and #42 led by Donna, and #43). This era also seems to establish Wally (and Donna) as de-facto leader when Dick is not around.

All other guests are really more part-time members such as Hank and Don who do their summer stint from #25-#30, Gnarrk who first appears in #32-33 and comes back in #39, and Garth who appears in #28-29 and #40.

For the first time (as far as I'm aware), a known villain gets brought into the story - Ocean Master (Orm) and an alien leader Mofo in #28-29 with Garth going after him. This part also established the easy-to-get-into-fights, easy-to-get-out-of-fights (among themselves) dynamics that I associate with the Titans. They start to place more importance on their insecurities and friendship.

There are also 2 main "friends get brainwashed" (for extended period) type storyline during this period of time (which later seems to become quite commonplace among the Titans): once with Donna (#34 which Wally doesn't see) and once with Garth (#40).

This is also the only era which has quite a lot of additional separate solo storylines. It start with Donna if you count "The Origin of Wonder Girl" in #22 (although it's kind of more like an additional story where everyone appears), and then Wally and Garth (with Tula) in #30. Garth (#30, #35, #36, #38) and Lilith (#36, #38, #41, #43) have the most with 4 each, Roy (#35, #38) and Hank&Don (#31, #39) have two each, and Mal (#35) and Dick (#36) have one each (like Donna and Wally). Superboy (young Clark) actually also has two - one with Dick (#36) and one with young Ollie (#37) that doesn't even have any of the Titans in it.

Crucially, contrary to how modern comics love to portray Batman and Robin's view on the Teen Titans, Batman actually fully supports the Teen Titans in the original and has never been shown to do otherwise almost at all. In fact, he is the one with the most team-ups with the Teen Titans and the team-ups almost always happen because he needs helps "relating to the teens" and he specifically calls on them, with full respect for them (even purposely allowing Wally and Donna to punch him real hard that one time to solidify their cover). The only mentor who does show disapproval is actually Aquaman (in Era 3), who does so because Garth gets mysteriously sick which he blames on the Teen Titans (sort of half-correctly).

Interestingly, up to this point there are actually more team appearances of what I'm calling Alternative 5 or Alt5 (Wally, Donna, Roy, Lilith Mal) than of Fab5 (Dick, Wally, Donna, Garth, Roy). In fact, up to this point there were 12 appearances of Alt5 over 5 appearances of Fab5. This is mostly because Roy and Garth actually have very little team-ups because Roy became a permanent basically the same time that Garth stopped being a permanent member.

Titans Villains (other than Ocean Master hat one time) in this era: Hell's Hawks, Harry Tout, Dr Pauling, Councilman Buckminster (Santa Claus), Demoness possessing Magda Drachwyck (Miss Wickersham), Calibano Della Loggia (x2), Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Black Earl of Moray, Captain Barstow's Phantom, Lord Beetle

Era 3: When Fab5 was Defined, More Teammates, Teen Titans West, and Splitting Up

Teen Titans (1966) #44-53 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #149

There was a more than 3 years gap from the last issue #43 in February 1973 to issue #44 in November 1976 which translated to a 2 year in-comic hiatus of the Teen Titans. There's also a change of regular writer from (mostly) Bob Haney to Bob Rozakis. All this culminated in a change in tone of the characters being a bit more aggressive and antagonistic towards each other, especially with Roy (note: Snowbirds Don't Fly happened in 1971 so it's not because that occurred in between the break since it actually happened before the break). They fight a lot more this era and the storylines are longer and bleed more into one another.

Another obvious change is that Wally is shown to be way more into Donna than before (in his thoughts especially) instead of their more casual flirting. Wally does eventually confess to Donna who rejects him in this era. The other "official" relationships are Mal/Karen and Lilith/Gnarrk (funnily because Mal/Lilith was a thing for a bit).

In story, Mr Jupiter decides to close shop (unknown reason) and so they broke up, with Mal taking care of the labs and the rest pursuing their individual careers instead as they agreed upon (but Mal is unhappy about). This... doesn't really make sense because I'm not sure what "individual career" Donna has, but never mind.

Lilith is no longer in the main team (later explained that she settled in the West Coast with Gnarrk which is very contradictory to her last statement in #43 that the Teen Titans is her family). Garth comes back from #45 when he is mysteriously summoned by Mal's horn and it's like he never left. He wants to resign in #51 because his insecurities making him physically sick, but he agrees to finish the mission and they all ended up disbanding anyway. Karen appears first in #45 as Mal's girlfriend and joins as Bumblebee in #49, but Duela joins the team first in #46. Because of these lineup changes, Fab5 appearances started to catch up to Alt5 until eventually Alt5 (15 appearances) just barely edges out Fab5 (13 appearances). Interestingly, Dick-Wally-Donna-Roy-Mal actually end up appearing most (17 appearances).

They (it's honestly mostly Dick, Wally, and Donna) discuss the idea of a new headquarters first suggested by Donna in #45 (like I said, she's very much the living centre of the Titans). Dick makes the decision (because he is Leader-Man and Bruce is funding it) to have their headquarters as a restaurant front, Gabriel's Horn (named after Mal's horn given by the angel Gabriel in #45), run by Mal and Roy (the jobless duo apparently) in #46 and they set it up in #49. Mal and Roy also started forming the rock band The Great Frog (a job!) in #45 which plays in their restaurant.

Teen Titans West first meet up and is established in #50 with some familiar faces (Gar, Hank, Don, Lilith, Gnarrk) and some complete newbies (Bette, Ch'al) to the roster. Issues #51 and #52 have the East and West team up, resulting in basically every Titans ever joining with the exception of Tula (but then again, at this point she only appeared in Garth solo story and never in the main storyline). At the end of which, they have a big feast (sponsored by Dick) and decided to part ways to improve and work towards eventually becoming the future Justice League (as they were always meant to).

The final story #53 establishes their origin and formation story which includes Roy, but had Roy basically saying he wanted to be involved only whenever he wanted and not permanently (ahem commitment issues), establishing Fab5 as the clear founders of the Teen Titans in the last issue.

There is a third "friends get brainwashed/used" (for extended period) type storyline with Lilith (#50-52), except she's not evil, but her powers are manipulated for evil. With Duela, there is also the first instance of villain's children in the Titans (in future there is Joey and Rose most prominently), setting up the stage for Titans raising villain's children. They actually brought Two-Face in to visit Duela at least once (right after a crime too???) which is... interesting?

This era has many more appearances of known villains including Dr Light, The Fiddler, Two-Face, and Mr Esper (Captain Calamity). The final issue is where Antithesis first appear (he is a recurring villain or at least comes back in future issues), and the remaining unimportant ones are: The Wreckers, Flamesplasher (x2), Sizematic (x2), Darklight (x2), and Rocket Rollers led by Brian the Brain.

Finally, there are some unexplained mysteries. Where the hell did Mal's horn go since it went missing in #49? Who is the blonde "Little Queen" that Garth meets from #36 (because I don't think it's Nirka McDuff from #40)? Who are Lilith's parents? What's up with Mr Jupiter? Is he Donna's dad (#35)? Do they ever make use of the possibly haunted mansion and fortune they inherited in #43? Why did Mr Jupiter not bother to make Roy, Wally, and Lilith face their fears (#38)? Does he think redheads have no fears? Are we going to address the fact that Lilith is apparently Juliet reborn (#35-36) and decided to give up Romeo (who she was very enamored by for a while) for Gnarrk?

To be continued~

Some Statistics (For Fun)

Most to least appearances, we have:

Donna (60) - only missing from the very first story before they were coined the Teen Titans

Wally (58) - missing from 3 stories all during Mr Jupiter era (twice unknown reasons and once because he is watching the lab)

Dick (54) - missing from 6 issues for his college

Roy (41)

Garth (37)

Mal (28)

Lilith (22)

Mr Jupiter (12) - not a Titan but I was curious so I counted him

Hank and Don (11)

Karen and Duela (8)

Gnarrk (5)

Gar (4)

Bette and Ch'al (3)

Tula (1)

Most to least trio appearances (within Fab5):

Dick-Wally-Donna (50)

Wally-Donna-Roy (38) - the love triangle lmao

Dick-Donna-Roy (33)

Dick/Donna-Wally-Garth (32)

Dick-Donna-Garth / Dick-Wally-Roy trio (31) - DWDG and DWDR limiting factor

Wally/Donna-Garth-Roy (14) - Roy/Wally-Donna-Mal/Lilith have more than this (25, 23, 19, 18)

Dick-Garth-Roy (13) - Fab5 limiting factor

For quartets, Dick-Wally-Donna-Garth (DWDG) quartet (31) ends up exactly equal to Dick-Wally-Donna-Roy (DWDR) quartet (31).

Special note that because of Lilith separation in Era 3, even though Garth is brought back, the Rebirth "OG" line up (Fab 5 + Lilith) actually only has 3 appearances together. On the other hand, Alt 5 + Dick have 9 appearances (but no Garth). World's Finest line up (Fab5 + Karen) have 7 appearances but only 4 of which Karen is actually Bumblebee and fighting with them, while the Silver Age Final line up (Fab5 + Mal) has the most with 10 appearances.

Ultimately, Lilith does still make more sense to me than Karen to balance the team with more girls, because she definitely was there earlier, had more appearance than Karen, and also doesn't have the additional association of joining because of Mal since she predates Mal. That said, the girl with the most Fab5 teamup might actually be Duela who also has 7 appearances with Fab5, all of which she is on their side (although half their issue was trust which wouldn't make so much sense if she was with them from the beginning). The person with most Fab5 teamup is unquestionably Mal though (10). It's curious to see what is more "valid" but my personal opinion is that there is no point in making a Fab6 just let leave it be and acknowledge it as product of its time.

If you want to have a look at the data out of curiosity, it's here.

[rebouks]

Previous // Next

Ivan: What, I ain’t even allowed t’talk about it no more? Bruno: Not when there’s nothing new to say. Ivan: Well, it’s alright for you, y’already got one! Bruno: [sighs] He’s not really-… Ivan: He’s biologically yours, B! You’re his dad, he’s gonna come t’you for advice, t’learn shit-.. n’ whatever else. Bruno: He’s gonna have you for that too. Ivan: It ain’t the same. Bruno: That’s a bit dismissive. Ivan: You’re the one being fuckin’ dismissive! … Ivan: I’m gonna say somethin’ I’ll regret if you don’t get y’ass back inside. Bruno: I need-… Ivan: I’ll bring your precious truck back before mornin’, don’t worry. Bruno: Look.. I’m sorry my past is getting in the way of what you want, but yours isn’t exactly much better. Ivan: I ain’t blamin’ you. Bruno: It sure feels that way. Ivan: I just wish y’wouldn’t-… Bruno: Be realistic? What do you want me to suggest? We can’t adopt, we can’t foster, we can’t afford a surrogate-.. so, unless you wanna go n’ find someone you can knock up the old-fashioned way, I don’t know what else to say! [Ivan scoffs, staring at Bruno incredulously] Bruno: I wasn’t saying-… Ivan: Are y’seriously tryna goad me into fuckin’ someone else? Bruno: No, I just meant-… Ivan: [snorts] Whatever. Bruno: Ivan, wait-… [Ivan slams the truck into reverse, two tracks of crumpled flowers left in his wake as he turns around and speeds off] … Bruno: He’s not angry, he’s just.. passionate. [Jacob fussing] Bruno: We like that about him though.

[averlym]

miscellany (again),, tags in the last image by @pyrotechnicarus