#hamas exists because of israel

[satoriberry]

dont you just love it when you get pro-israeli anti-hamas ads on your TL 😍😍😍

[brick-van-dyke]

If there's one thing I've respectively noticed from Zionists and defenders of Israeli war crimes, it's that every source, argument and potential avenue to explore each explanation is riddled with cherry picking, moving the goalposts and mental gymnastics to explain why their conclusions, which typically are barely even related to the sources they use, somehow overshadow literal reality and what we see with our own eyes.

While scrolling, one example I came across was the repetitive misrepresentation of BLM, antifa and quotes from Martin Luther King Jr, as well as statistics, scholarly journal articles and government website information. These are all good sources, yet every single time they're mangled completely until the only possible "interpretation" of any of them is "well Israel is right to defend itself after shorting rockets beforehand because the retaliation was brutal and all Arabs are bad by default therefore". As if any of these sources are even about individual exceptions of Israel versus hatred towards Arabs.

I think what I find most absurd, as someone in the middle of their own studies, is how every bit of critical thinking and logic goes out the window as they do every single thing possible to do what professors worldwide say NOT to do when evaluating sources. It's like watching a race to see who can tangle and misconstrue scientific information to fit their world view the fastest. Then said people say "um actually I studied at university before so it's actually not wrong that I'm doing this exact this everyone is warned not to do because I have a permit". Ignorance I can forgive, but willful and arrogant manipulation? That's another thing entirely.

[givemearmstopraywith]

anon who is "not a zionist" and "not a jew": you need to educate yourself and stop uncritically inhaling every piece of pro-imperialist, pro-zionist propaganda that falls into your lap. you are living in a state of fear that is completely fabricated and i feel sorry for you. also this?

is a truly insane thing to say to me, a jew, when i have been very open about my immediately family members having survived the holocaust, as in my mother is named after a baby who was murdered by the nazis in dachau, as in i have uncles and aunts who lived in ghettos, and the fact that i have to air out MY generational trauma on this stupid website to get people like you to back off is truly fucking insane. you should not be weaponizing the trauma of an entire ethnic group against us while simultaneously claiming you care so much about how we are oppressed. newsflash: you are being antisemitic. jews created anti-zionism. jews were religiously against the creation of an israeli state the moment we entered the diaspora and again the moment it become a political movement. anti-zionism was a jewish movement before it became anything else.

how dare you come into my space spreading propaganda about something you clearly know nothing about, how dare you claim to care about jews while accusing me of not caring about my own generational trauma and my own people and trying to weaponize one genocide against another.

how are you care so little about the lives of palestinians that you can dismiss their suffering because you cling so much to this bizarre idea of "western values." western values killed jews. western values are killing palestinians. the fact that you are able to dismiss the dignity and right to life of palestinian people and ignore their suffering shows me that you do not care about jews at all, you care about your precious moral high ground and sense of individualism, because if this situation were reversed and it was jews suffering and it was jews who were the target of vicious, baseless, hateful propaganda, you would swallow it uncritically. you are not a good person. you are as good as a nazi in 1945 because you are a zionist in 2024.

[thedreadvampy]

legitimately insane how to some people, "we should wipe out this ethnic group that we've violently constrained to a ghetto because they're just genetically more violent and dangerous" is a reasonable and justifiable statement but it's Nazi Rhetoric to say something like, "it's bad that Israeli civilians are being killed but acknowledging that as tragic includes acknowledging that the almost daily state-sanctioned murder of civilians by the Israeli government is also tragic and unacceptable"

btw guys speaking of Nazi shit - can we check in, alongside what's been done to Palestinians in the last 75 years, what's the Israeli government's take on the Azerbaijani government's newest round of ethnic cleansing of Armenians? oh are the Israeli government's actions maybe not determined by Jewish identity, but by a commitment to colonial supremacy which puts them on the same page as other violently genocidal states like Azerbaijan, the US, and the UK? god can you Even Imagine?

(framing speaking against Israeli war crimes as inherently antisemitic requires understanding the Israeli state as representing all Jewish people, when it doesn't even represent all Israelis.

framing Israeli war crimes as synonymous with Jewish identity is pretty fucked up if we're being honest. I don't think that controlling water and power and movement for a captive population and shooting children dead for throwing stones is an inherent value of Judaism, any more than I think the torture carried out at Guantanamo Bay is an inherent value of Christianity - in both cases they're atrocities carried out by a far right genocidal government using religious identity as a shield.

Calling statements like "Israel is committing genocide against the people it's displaced" inherently antisemitic is doing more to further the idea that all Jewish people are associated with Israel than saying "the Israeli government is doing war crimes," which is a statement of fact about a country that exists and does war crimes. Is criticism of Israel as a nation often used as cover for antisemitism? Absolutely. Does that mean the Israeli government isn't doing literal war crimes repeatedly, on record, while talking publicly about scrubbing an ethnic group off the map? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh well in the last 48 hours they've definitely cut off water and power to almost 600,000 civilians and allegedly used white phosphorus against civilians so in an extremely factual and unambiguous way yeah man those are Literal War Crimes whoever does them.)

[mewlabu]

Is it irony that the people who keep screaming at Ukranian to not be "Russiaphobic" because "not all Russians" have demonized everyone even vaguely related to Israel, let alone just Jewish people existing in the last few months?

I'm well aware there are people still on the left who are actual functioning human beings who have capacity to be self critical and self reflect. But I feel like they are increasingly the baffled minority wondering wtf happened that people in the world of political inclinations meant to be a more humane and kinder approach to humanity have become so blood thirsty and ghoulish.

[the-ships-to-rule-them-all]

I don’t think people realize how all consuming October 7, the war and the rising antisemitism is to most Jews right now. I was just on a five day family trip and nearly every single conversation ended up circling back to what’s going on in Israel, across the world and at home. My mom knew Vivian Silver, an incredible peace activist thought to be held hostage and I had to sit there and watch her realize that not only was Vivian murdered at her home 38 days before but that she was likely burned if it took this long for her body to be identified. I was forced to sit there and watch my mom, my favorite woman in the world, watch her face crumple. We were sharing updates, accounts to follow, venting and releasing frustrations. It is a constant unbreakable struggle right now for me and most Jews I know to not be glued to our phones, to not pay attention. Because we’ve seen what happens when we don’t. Because we can’t afford to turn our backs on what’s going on. And there’s a deep ever present grief not only for the victims of October 7th, the innocent citizens of Gaza, the hostages and also for my own personal sense of safety and security. I am also grieving what is a shattering beyond measure of my present and future trust in people as I’ve witnessed how easily well intentioned kind hearted people have decided to say nothing, publicly or privately, or who have quickly fallen into vicious antisemitic rhetoric. I’m just sharing into the void at this point but it’s been unimaginably hard on a personal level. I’m not the same person I was when I went to bed on October 6. It’s as though I’m a shadow, made of grief and anger and tiny fractured bits of hope. Every piece of joy feels as though it’s been muted because of how quickly it fades. And even the moments that last are related to my Jewish identity somehow. I am not sure where I go from here.

Have a cat gif for reading all of that

[hummingbird-hunter]

The fact that I can have a more rational, coherent conversation about i/p (and really most of political/social issues) with my 70 year old grandma than with most of the westerners here is really telling.

[ofdinosanddais1]

Hamas doesn't exist for funsies. It exists because Israel has been systemically oppressing Palestinians for decades for the mere audacity of their existence. I'm pretty sure Hamas members don't even want to exist. It just exists because Israel hates Palestinians.

[artemisiatridentata]

Damn people are really on this site freely admitting their lack of critical thinking about the last 80-odd years of Palestinian and Zionist history huh. Do y'all think Palestinians had safety and dignity during the 30 years under Israeli occupation before Hamas was founded? No. It was and continues to be hell on earth, because of the violent actions of the settler-colonial state of Israel. Why the fuck do you think Hamas, al-Qassam, and similar orgs exist in the first place? They didn't spring up out of nowhere; they were formed by orphans and survivors of the decades of brutal, systemic violence inflicted on Palestinians by the Israeli occupation, in direct response to said violence.

And btw Palestinians have tried nonviolence; do none of you remember the Great March of Return several years ago? Israel murdered and maimed unarmed/peaceful Palestinian protestors. The gall of some of y'all to criticize the tactics colonized people use to defend themselves against an occupation... my god. As Arundhati Roy said, people have the right to resist annihilation.

[okjuuzu]

Its always funny to me when zionists come on this app to try and make hamas look bad with think pieces and they accuse them of things that their own government and the american government does too.

"Hamas tortures and excutes spies" "hamas uses propaganda" "hamas spends alot of money on its military" blah blah blah boy let me tell you something...

[lias-archive]

"do you condemn Hamas?" is a meme at this point.

[anthropomorphicbeancake]

Atrocities happening to innocents that are a part of the oppressor state or group, is still the fault of the oppressor, not the oppressed for using the same tactics in their defense.

[nightwingsnightblog]

I'm sorry, but I have McFucking lost it. You are all seething with such hatred built on a colossal lie. Fuck war and fuck you.

[weirdloverwilde]

the eu is beyond fucking annoying

[otsukare-katsukare]

i have something very personal and ugly and probably incoherent that i need to get off my chest about israel. to preface im not a zionist, i am jewish and disgusted by israel on a daily basis, and this is me mostly speaking from that. i am sorry and if anyone who follows me doesn't want to read this from me/hates it i ask that you just scroll on by and forget it. and if you do read it and respond im happy to talk but just please take it in good faith. in reponse to this post

[the--sound--of--rain]

Can we hold Hamas, and only Hamas, responsible for Israel is doing now in Gaza? (Because this is what some Western newspapers and politicians are claiming.)

No, of course not. It's nonsense in any context to solely hold a person or group responsible for the reaction of another person or group to their actions. If this were a valid stance, we wouldn't be expected to condemn Hamas for their actions on October the 7th, despite these actions being a reaction to the Israeli occupation.

Every person and group is responsible, at least in part, for their reaction to an action of another person or group, as long as they have another choice. No matter how understandable that reaction may be.

Hamas did have another choice. Logically it would not be possible for them to wage a "classical" war on Israel as they are inferior in number, weaponry and sovereignty (because remember Israel holds the most power over the Gaza strip), but they could have decided to not resist, give up their land, and let Israel continue controlling the lives of people in the Gaza strip, randomly taking people (including women and children) prisoner, and killing Palestinians every now and then. You may argue that this would have been a better option.

And this is why Hamas should be tried in an international court for what they have done.

In what world would you not apply the same rules to Israel? They had an array of choices other than what they are doing now. They could have sent in special forces to get to Hamas fighters, they could have tried to negotiate to get their hostages out – the list goes on. Carpet bombing an entire area and cutting off all supplies (electricity, water, food) to hospitals and households, then bombing those hospitals and and houses and bombing the refugee camps that people have fled to in order to escape the bombing and then driving in and running over civillians and shooting at rooms with newborns in them should have been the last one on the list of all the choices they had. And you may argue, even, that every single one of Israel's choices other than to do what they are doing now, would have been more favourable to them than it would have been to Hamas and Palestinians to simply surrender to the occupation.

Is Hamas solely responsible for everything following October the 7th? If you follow that logic, it's not Hamas responsible at all: Israel would be solely responsible for everything following the 1948 Nakba.