#had Saruman not been affected by the Ring

[animentality]

Durgetash is important to me not because I think the dark urge is themselves the best written character, or even that Enver Gortash, hit by the rushed act 3 curse, is either, but because I see the thematic potential of their romantic relationship.

Orin destroyed the dark urge because of their relationship with Gortash. I'm not projecting that, she literally said it herself in a note. Whether it was romantic or platonic is subject for debate.

But is there a more beautiful way for an evil character to die, than destroyed by their own humanity, the very thing they thought they had abandoned long ago? Is there any more fitting way for evil to be conquered, than by love itself?

Lord of the rings, our genre defining fantasy epic, from which all fantasy must borrow, always proposed the idea that evil always destroys itself in the end. Evil betrays evil. This is why Frodo is not the one to cast the ring into the fires of Mordor in the end.

Baldur's Gate more openly suggests that evil defeated evil, by the conventional way of backstabbing. Orin kills the Dark Urge out of jealousy and lust for power. Whether they die because you pick a Tav, or survive, doesn't matter because it destabilized the plan, it ruined it. Gortash and Ketheric and Orin fall into infighting, just as Saruman betrayed Sauron, just as evil often does in fantasy, and in real life, when dictators and tyrants fight off would be replacements and opportunists.

If the dark urge survives, they become the greatest thorn in the side of evil, if you do the good run, they don't just destabilize the plan, they destroy it. They end it. They save the world from their own destruction.

And that's all well and good. Evil defeats evil, yes, alright.

But if Gortash and the Dark Urge loved each other...

That adds another complex element to that theme.

It suggests that at the end of the day, even the two worst people in the world, the most evil of despots and killers, could still be fallible, vulnerable to the powerful force of goodness and morality that is love.

It could never change them, couldn't truly save them, in fact, because gortash always dies and the dark urge dies in most runs, when you don't pick dark urge as an origin.

But it was still powerful enough to destroy everything they worked for, all the evil they wrought together. It put a stop to their madness.

Evil lost, because of that critical weakness.

That flaw, in Bhaal and Bane's plans.

The fact that humans (you know what I mean) can't live without love, no matter how well groomed they are for death and destruction and cruelty. That humanity, this great, warm sliver of compassion and camaraderie and genuine affection...is just that powerful. All it took was a little slip, a little snip of threads, a small crack, to shatter completely.

It's cheesy as fuck, and it's been done to death, but love truly does conquer all. Who the fuck cares how played out it is?

I'll die for stories that say, over and over, that love will always defeat evil.

Even if it's not in the way you'd expect.

Whether it resulted in the dark urge's complete demise, or was merely the first stepping stone on their path to salvation...

Evil defeating evil is appropriate. Love defeating evil is not as boring as you'd think it would be.

And using two evil characters, who should not love, but did anyway, and allowed themselves to be ruined by it in the end...

Well.

I think that's neat.

I'm utterly demented for even thinking so hard about this, because I think the developers just meant for Gortash to just be this asshole you just have to kill, and the dark urge was just this edge lord asshole who got off on mutilation.

But I can pretend.

[emmanuellececchi]

LOTR and Hobbit characters and cats -

Absurd headcanon

Warning : this is not serious. this was made out of whim, late at night. not editing done. Just for fun. And not all of them are funny anyway. You've been warned! - Feel free to add characters and headcanon. I forgot a few : Haldir, Hama, Theoden, Saruman, Treebeard and so on. I hope you will all have fun and play with this! (OC welcome - thinking of my moots with awesome OC).

Cirdan The cats roam freely in the Grey Haven as if they owned the place. Cirdan find them amusing and charming when he gets to pet them. Of course, what he does not know is that they tolerate him because he’s a great fisherman. And a good back scratcher.

Galadriel While there are not many felines in the Golden Forest, each time she is somewhere where there’s one (or two, or three) the cats are drawn to her and vice-versa. As a matter of fact, the cats consider her to be one of their kind. She does not correct them.

Celeborn There is no cat in Lothlorien. On the other hand, when there are cats, he has to tolerate them for Galadriel’s sake. Although, the truth is that they tolerate him because Galadriel shares her bed with him.

Elrond Rivendell had been free of felines for a while. Then, and he never found out how, they began to suddenly appear all around. Mostly around supper. They’re discreet and great pest hunters which he appreciate for his books sake. Although he would never admit it, he kind of like when they come and sleep in his lap while he sips his tea.

Aragorn learned to admire and respect cats as they can survive pretty much everywhere. As king, admits that cats are useful. But he does not like to share their bed with one of them, even Arwen’s pet. On the other hand, he relishes when the pet come in his lap to nap while he is smoking his pipe.

Arwen Since in Minas Tirith, she has adopted a few. Arwen is terribly jealous of their affection. She does not like when she finds out they nap on Aragorn’s lap, pretexting they smell like smoke. Aragorn only smiles which infuriates her.

Imrahil Cats hunt pests in stable, in kitchen, protect grain. He will tolerates cats. But they belong outside. On the other hand, he is actively ignoring the ginger fur transgression living in Lothiriel’s room. Relieved she left with it.

Lothiriel Positively delighted to realize cats prefer her lap to Arwen’s. Brings her pet with her in Rohan. Finds hilarious that Eomer is taking personally its presence in the bed and is jealous of the poor thing.

Eomer Blasted animals. Should stay in the barn and stable to hunt rats and mouse. Not in a bed. And certainly not between him and his queen when he wants privacy. Eomer is convinced the thing is plotting his demise. Always trying to steal his side of the bed.

Eowyn Cats were great listener when she was young. Once, one of them clawed Grima. She was delighted to see her little hero flee alive. Since in Ithilien, she has begun feeding the strays. She considers a high honor if one of them chooses to nap at her side.

Faramir Admires their independent spirit and intelligence. Consider them like a good blade: useful and dangerous. Will never admit he is a bit afraid of them. But if Eowyn loves them, he will say nothing. He is just relieved she does not bring them in.

Denethor Never could stand the little buggers. Tolerated them when his wife was alive but that was the best he could do. While he recognizes their usefulness he is terribly allergic to them.

Boromir Does not seem to care about the furry things. Until he is home. Where an old stray is waiting for him. Gave him food and a warm place to stay. Melted the first time the old cat came to sleep with him. Will never admit the cat makes him happy.

Gandalf Keeps a safe distance between him and them. They tend to appear out of nowhere and they don’t even have magic. He can’t even buy them with food.

Bilbo Find them amusing when chasing his smoke rings, love to watch them sleep in the sunny spot in the garden. Chase them away when they hunt the butterflies.

Sam Stupid animals. They dig in the garden and poison the flowers. And they don’t even like potatoes.

Frodo Good reading companions. Not very trustworthy with food. Love to climb in trees with him. Really good nap companions.

Pippin Cats are the evilest things after the ringwraiths. Did you see their eyes when they follow you in the night? Did you hear them meow after you in the night? That and their claws…

Merry Fights hard not to laugh each time Pippin speak about cats. Got a few scars out of the whole adventure but well worth it when seeing Pippin’s terrified face.

Thorin There is only one king under the mountain. And it won’t be a cat!

Thranduil He is the only one with the right of being fabulous. And this is HIS throne! Cats are not welcome in his palace.

Gimli Dwarves hate pests. But wild cats roaming unchecked underground? Unacceptable. What do you mean, he has adopted one? Don’t be ridiculous, he only keeps it in his room to hunt the rats that would eat his bed linen!

Legolas Never really got close of cats while in Mirkwood. Can’t understand why people would want to sleep with them when they're doing such noises. What was the great idea for Gimli to call his cat like him anyway?

[sasquapossum]

I've been part of a big discussion elsewhere about Rings of Power and the liberties they've taken with Tolkien's canon. As part of that, I posted this timeline (SA = Second Age, TA = Third Age).

To be clear, I don't particularly care about the timeline itself. I have never been one of those to say that nobody can change canon at all. In fact, I haven't seen anyone take that position. Here are some things that are fine with me, and AFAICT with most other hard-core Tolkien fans.

I welcome changes that improve representation of women (Arwen, Tauriel, Galadriel) or Black people (Arondir), gay people, whatever. Tolkien was a man of his time, but also a decent man. I believe that, had he lived longer, he might well have approved such changes or even made them himself.

I also don't mind if characters are omitted (Glorfindel and especially Tom Bombadil) or added (Adar) or given new names/identities (Halbrand, The Stranger) in ways that don't significantly affect the history of Middle Earth as already known.

I don't even mind some kinds of timeline changes. Should Elendil have been alive at the same time as Celebrimbor? Well, no, but it doesn't really matter.

What I do mind is changes that harm the narrative - either Tolkien's or their own or too often both. Some events have a cause-and-effect relationship, so reordering them leads to a nonsensical result. Some characters have thematically important natures, so putting them in situations contrary to that nature is also nonsensical. It's particularly crazy to be bringing in Third Age elements when the Second Age is already far too big and busy for a single series (what I consider to be RoP's "original sin" from which most others flow). Here are some more examples.

It doesn't make sense for Gandalf or Saruman to be in Middle Earth before the events that caused the Valar to send them (Sauron's Third Age rise in opposition to Arnor and Gondor).

Ditto for barrow wights in this time period (hinted at in teasers for episodes I haven't seen myself yet). The wights were canonically princes of Cardolan, reanimated and/or possessed by the Witch King of Angmar. Cardolan didn't even exist until the Third Age, and even in RoP's own timeline the Witch King doesn't (can't) exist yet, so again this makes no sense.

Portraying the Fall of Numenor before the creation of the rings is not only gratuitous (just an excuse for some CGI) but it's also going to make it very difficult to tell the full story - which BTW includes Sauron as a prisoner - later even in RoP's own timeline. I'd like to see that story, so that's a loss.

Having Tom Bombadil tutor Gandalf (also hinted at in spoilers) changes both characters into something else entirely. Gandalf was already thousands of years old and should need no such tutoring; his amnesia was already an unnecessary creation within RoP. Tom, to the extent that he's anything more than a last vestige of the Hobbit writing style, is an enigma intentionally placing himself above and beyond such worldly concerns. He is almost the anti-Istari so having him help one is just silly.

By making these changes, and many more, the RoP folks have made a muddled mess. It's the same mistake David Lynch made in his 1984 version of Dune, which was widely and rightly panned for ham-fistedly trying to cram much into too small a space. Amazon's changes not only do a disservice to Tolkien's canon, but they're degrading their own as well.

Another thing that infuriates me about this is the hypocrisy of the Tolkien estate. For decades, Christopher (Rot In Piss) and his successors have ruthlessly quashed any retelling of stories in Tolkien's world. I used to play LotR Online, which suffered under this yoke for years. I'm aware of multiple fanfic authors who were legally threatened for having dared to mention one thing in that canon. Then the estate turns around and approves a project that puts the entire history of Middle Earth in a blender? No, I do not accept such double standards. This is all a huge money grab, pure and simple.

I know that other people would draw the lines differently than I do. They would accept things that I don't, and vice versa. That's all fine. Live and let live, as I always say. I'm watching and enjoying the series, just as I have enjoyed others (e.g. Wheel of Time) that are inspired by Tolkien but not set in his world. But I also think I should be allowed to notice and have my own opinions about those things too. Apparently the RoP stans disagree. Literally all of the gatekeeping and all of the vitriol in these discussions have come from that direction. Even the worst Tolkien purists I've ever met accept that he had his flaws as a writer, and that adaptation to a new medium in a new time means some changes. They're not the problem; it's the people who think RoP takes precedence over Tolkien's own vision who are the problem.

[margridarnauds]

So, as of just now, I've watched both seasons of The Rings of Power, and here is my current scattered list of thoughts.

Tolkien would be rolling in his grave. But he would also be rolling in his grave at aspects of the movies, we can be honest about that.

It feels like the second season did a better job with costuming than the first, though, to be honest, I think that claims about the badness of the costuming of the S1 costumes have been over-exaggerated (not WRONG, but I think over-exaggerated due to a general unwillingness to treat any aspect of the show with good faith and to clasp onto perceived shortcomings.)

I do think that they over-extended some storylines, wanting it to encompass EVERYTHING and, in doing so, meant that some storylines are less cohesive and developed than others.

The Harfoot storyline in general feels like it might have been tacked on -- it's sweet, and I think it's so important in some ways, but I also don't think it's ever been as well-developed as some of the others, especially in S2 where they're kind of wandering around. The first season had the strong focus on the Harfoots' love for one another, and that was reduced in S2.

Ciarán Hinds is forever one of my DILFs of all time since Persuasion, and he does his best with the role, but the Dark Wizard never really escapes from the shadow of being Discount!Saruman, especially with his addressing of Gandalf as "old friend". And when you are up against Christopher Lee, particularly in a villain role, you've kind of got to accept you've already lost. Tolkien did have the evil Istari written in, but he didn't really do anything with that plotline, and I can't say the show does much better, though I suppose we'll see how that develops down the line. He might still find a way to distinguish himself as a threat in his own right, but he's swimming against the current when he's a villain in a show with *SAURON*.

Speaking of Gandalf, though, I do appreciate Daniel Weyman -- the man is competing against Ian McClellan, in an absolutely iconic role. And I don't think he does *better* at it than McClellan, but I'm saying that I think his approach to the character is very plausible as a younger, less experienced version of McClellan's Gandalf (specifically).

Though, regarding that, I do think that TROP suffers at times for inviting comparisons with the Jackson trilogy in some ways, via a number of visual and textual homages, while also diverging from it. I love the Jackson LOTR, but trying to tie into it means that neither Jackson purists nor book purists will be 100% satisfied, and sometimes, it feels like they try too hard for fanservice.

That being said, when it does these things WELL, I do think it does it well -- Elendil getting Narsil made me freak out, because it was a reminder of his fate -- that sword *will* fall from his hand in battle, his son *will* take that blade up, it *will* be shattered by Sauron, and it *will* be reforged by Aragorn. His death is being written even at his highest point.

I still think the series sometimes goes too grimdark/actionified to keep up with HOTD/the films -- and I kind of hate that part of why S2 has been praised more than S1 is its darker tone.

That darker tone does sometimes affect areas where, imo, it shouldn't have been affected -- Tom Bombadil being a prime example. I liked seeing him on screen, but it really felt like they took some of the whimsy from the character in favor of upholding the larger narrative, which could work for some characters, but not *this* one.

I do like the way that we SEE corruption slinking in, the way that the characters are trying to maneuver around things without having the full picture, often to tragic results. It really highlights how much of a threat Sauron truly is, without making him a one man army. One area where I truly think it's a *masterwork* is the depiction of Sauron and his manipulation; the Celebrimbor arc was exactly as devastating as it needed to be.

I really wish that people hadn't been so focused on "oh my GOD Galadriel has a SWORD" because, even among people who weren't alt-right trolls, who DID want to make valid points about women only being valid if they aren't overtly feminine, (1) Morfydd Clark....is still incredibly feminine as Galadriel, and is a very nuanced role even if it isn't 100% what Tolkien would have likely done if he was writing this; I get so tired of people saying that women are "being written as men" when they are still incredibly gender conforming, it brings "butch Princess Peach" vibes and (2) There are so many other women who are wives, mothers, leaders, and healers, and this criticism, even when it attempted to be a feminist critique, ultimately did them a disservice.

Honestly, I think that Galadriel SHOULD cut her hair short, burn her bra, and make out with Celeborn, who, in the years apart, has discovered that she's a woman, just to piss people off.

But also, they should have found a way to write Bronwyn off without killing her off, even with the actress not wanting to return, since it was, functionally, a fridging, even if it was one of the more understandable examples.

I do really like the nuance given to the dwarves beyond either "comic relief" or "greedy" -- the take on dwarf culture here is something that I do think is going to be memorable long term.

The linguistics for the names suck, but the pronunciation of Elvish tends to be pretty good.

I really like the take on the orcs, for the most part. I still don't like them wearing skulls in the first season, I really wish that they weren't so Jackson-inspired as far as their visuals, since the Jackson really was racist (though Tolkien's orcs would have looked like racial caricatures of East Asians if adapted faithfully on screen.) I do think that the second season does a better job than the first, highlighting why the orcs went to Sauron and how he betrayed them in the same way that he betrayed everyone else.

I don't think Adar is Tolkien-esque, as a figure, but I love the tragedy of his character, I loved seeing his rise and fall, and I was really rooting for him to somehow survive.

It's clear that, despite some things being altered here and there, sometimes, imo, for the better, sometimes for the worse, there are a lot of people involved in this project who deeply care for it -- you can hear it when you read the cast interviews.

I think a lot of people were really ageist when discussing Thomas Edwards' Celebrimbor -- the man conveyed the right combination of emotional depth and steel, and a lot of it came down to "doesn't look like how I personally imagined the character." (Because I wanted him to be hot and young and shippable.)

Also people were ghoulish about Charlie Vickers' appearance -- the man was a perfect Sauron and, honestly, I do think is beautiful in the role. People really judged him based on how he appeared in the first series, when he was at rock bottom.

Morfydd Clark can create chemistry with anyone.

In general, I don't think there's a miscast person in the entire cast.

I am super nervous about Míriel's plotline, because if they go with the forced marriage thing, it will look really bad with a black woman in particular.

I think it does do a lot more of a tribute to Tolkien than people give it credit for, namely because so many people think that the Jackson films = Tolkien. I love the Jackson films, but they aren't Tolkien. But, as per the point above, I don't think the series does itself any favors when it *invites* those comparisons.

People complaining about Sauron being straight were not prepared for the second season.

Overall....do I think it's perfect? No. But I remember how much Tolkien purists hated the films when they came out, and I suspect that the reception of this series is going to be better, in twenty years, than the Hobbit films. Not great, no, not as iconic as the films, no, but decent. Provided they don't jump the shark at some point.

But also, fuck Bezos

[honourablejester]

Okay. I know this is a jokey thread and we’re having fun, but there’s a bit of me … This feels a little unfair? To both canons?

There’s a tonal difference between Middle Earth and Discworld, absolutely. Middle Earth is heroic high fantasy, and Discworld is comedic fantasy. But. The tone of these posts is that, by virtue of comedy, Discworld would ‘win’ against Middle Earth? Vimes wouldn’t be tempted by the Ring. Nobby would total a Ringwraith. Rincewind would total Saruman. And I don’t think that’s true.

The tragedies of Middle Earth are not so shallow and simple that they can just be undone by a hint of comedy. And the characters of Discworld are not so shallow that they can’t be affected by tragedy.

Sam Vimes could carry the Ring, definitely, but not because he’s immune to manipulation, but because he has endured both the Gonne and the Guarding Dark, and they both nearly destroyed him, but he fought his way through both of them and emerged intact. Sam Vimes would not disdain Frodo as weak, because he’s fucking been there, he gets it. If Frodo talked to him at the end, and admitted his failures, and said they were only saved because of Samwise, Vimes would hand him a pint and say yeah, that’s why you have people, kid. Watchmen die alone.

Rincewind putting that brick in that sock, the first time, was comedic, yes, but it was also a terrified, absolutely powerless man scraping together a rudimentary weapon out of sheer bravado before he made the decision to attack an entire dimension of monsters so that a scared abused kid would have a chance to run. The only reason it worked and that he survived is that the Things from the Other Dimension turned out to have issues with physical, material violence. But it was, at the time, a genuinely heartwrenching decision to sacrifice himself to save a kid who’d almost destroyed the world. And, see, that might not work, against Saruman. Saruman is a wizard in the full of his power, with full control of magic in a way that Rincewind has simply never had, and while yes, maybe Rincewind could get the drop on him and club him unconscious, he would be fully risking his life against a superior foe to do so. And he might still do it, if pushed. Because that’s a decision Rincewind has already made. He’s a coward, and he’s powerless, but that doesn’t mean he won’t step up regardless. And that … that would fit right in, in Middle Earth.

Cheery Littlebottom might have a very comedic conversation with Gimli, definitely. But you know who she might have an entirely serious conversation with? Eowyn.

And the elves, to be fair, that’s because Tolkien and Terry Pratchett were talking about two different kinds of elves. Tolkien was talking about Norse elves, heroic fantasy, and Pratchett was talking about Celtic elves, ghosts and goblins and fairy tales. Granny Weatherwax is not going to sneer at Elrond, though she’s probably not going to be surprised by Feanor and the history of the Noldor either. She might get a little bit icy at Galadriel, but … Granny also has a lot of experience and trauma about having had to be the ‘good one’. Galadriel’s knowledge of her own weaknesses, acknowledgement of her own history, might well be something Granny would respect.

And yes, maybe Nobby would absolutely attempt to knee a ringwraith in the jewels. But what would the cost of that be? Everyone else who struck a ringwraith paid dearly for it. Remember Jingo, when Vimes was listening to the deaths of those alternate Watchmen via the Disorganiser?

There are two different genres in play here, for sure. But they’re both valuable genres, and neither of them is so weak that the other one would just overwrite it. Middle Earth can survive and embrace comedic moments without losing its inherent tragedy and scale. And Discworld can absolutely go toe to toe with horror and tragedy without ever losing its sense of self or ability to laugh at the absurdity present even in the worst moments.

Discworld x Tolkien crossover where Vimes arrests the One Ring for being an accessory to murder

[dalleyan]

Elfwine Chronicles (new LoTR stories, Adventures of Theodred, Son of Eomer, ch 7 posted, 5-17-23)

Theodred's adventures as he travels with Freahelm, trying to find a direction for his life.  (Adventure, Drama, Angst, Romance, Family, Humor) (19 chapter story)

 Chapter 7  -  (begins late April, 44 IV)

The two men leaned back in their saddles, one hand on their horses’ rumps in an attempt to see the top of Orthanc, but it was a cloudy day, and the pinnacle was obscured from their view. At length, Freahelm straightened and shook his head, commenting, “You know, I have the utmost respect for Gondorians…”

He paused and Theodred’s eyes narrowed.  “Yes?” he prompted.

“But the man who built this must have been utterly mad!  Who in their right mind could think such a building was worth constructing?  It is imposing, to be sure, but…useless.  The view from the top might be magnificent, but things on the ground must appear the size of ants from up there.  And, for that matter, who would want to make that climb on a regular basis?  Perhaps if a man had wings he would attempt it, but I doubt I would often go more than five floors up!  Useless, I tell you!  Utterly useless!”

Theodred grinned at the diatribe.  It was not the first time he had heard such an opinion expressed of this place.  His father had long held that view, and indicated he was happy to let Gondor retain possession of the place as he could see no practical value to it.  Indeed, as Saruman’s stronghold, it had been a festering sore in Rohan’s side for far too long, and Theodred suspected Eomer would not have been sorry to see it completely destroyed when Treebeard and the Ents took control of Isengard.  Now it was little more than an interesting landmark for any who cared to venture this far off the beaten path.

In all his years living in Rohan, Theodred had never taken the opportunity to make the journey to see the place.  He had decided now was the appropriate time, and he thought it worthwhile to glimpse it at least once, since it had played such an important role in Rohan’s history. Tonight he would have much to write in his journal.

Treebeard had long since returned to Fangorn Forest, and Theodred regretted not having had the opportunity to meet him.  The Hobbits had spoken much of him on their last visit, when he was a child, and he had always hoped to have that chance himself.  There was something magical in the notion of an actual treeherder, who appeared to be a tree himself almost.

“Well, shall we go inside and have a look around?”  Freahelm’s voice broke through his reverie.  Eagerly Theodred nodded and they rode closer.

The lake surrounding Orthanc had receded somewhat over the years, but the water still reached their stirrups, so they drew as close to the entrance as they could.  Had the doorway been larger, they would have ridden inside to dismount, but there was not enough room for their horses, so they slipped into the water and waded in.

Theodred knew that while Treebeard had been in residence at Isengard, few had dared visit, being almost as afraid of an Ent as they were of Saruman.  Once the treeherder had taken his leave, the place fell victim to looters who were eager to pilfer anything they could use or sell.

Most of the rooms now stood empty but for a few scraps of destroyed furniture.  The two winced inwardly at the sight of iron rings affixed to the floor or walls of various rooms, clear evidence that they had once housed prisoners of some sort.  They preferred not to dwell long on that subject.

It took some doing, but Theodred was able to persuade Freahelm to climb all the way to the top, so they could at least get the full experience, and say they had done so.  A few drifting breaks in the cloud cover gave them glimpses around them.  As Freahelm predicted, their horses were almost indiscernible pinpricks on the ground from that great height.  Though not usually affected by extreme heights, both of them were unnerved here, and they did not linger.  Still, the views they got of the surrounding country were incomparable.  Skeletons of destroyed machinery still lay hidden under the lake, and Theodred studied the sight with a practiced eye, committing it to memory so he could later transfer the image to his journal pages.

At length, they had seen enough, and decided to be on their way before the afternoon was too far gone. They hoped to reach the Fords of Isen before nightfall and make camp there.

 continue reading on AO3:

              https://archiveofourown.org/works/46771651/chapters/119042485

[roccondil]

You know, it just struck me as interesting, but while the Ring gets all the credit for taking down its bearers directly (see: Isildur, Gollum, almost Frodo) as well as some folks by proximity (Boromir), there was one more whom it had ensnared and brought low just by existing: Saruman.

Now granted, Saruman was being manipulated and then mastered by Sauron via palantir. But even so Saruman still had a ton of free will left to him, and that free will ended up being obsessed with obtaining the Ring. This became even more Important to him once he learned that the Ring had reappeared and was apparently easily obtainable.

And so, had he not sent the Uruk detachment to waylay the Fellowship and steal the Hobbits, Merry and Pippin would not have been brought to Rohan. They would not have (inadvertently) been freed by the Captain who Saruman’s spy had exiled, only to escape into Fangorn Forest and meet Treebeard. The hobbits would not have been anywhere near able to convince the Ents to fight back against Isengard.

Basically, Saruman’s greed ended up setting in motion a chain of events that caused his own downfall, and the Ring had merely to exist and make itself relevant again to trigger that series of events.

[derangedchameleon]

I was given… oppertunity… I have not very many thoughts right now I put my brain under mild strain (made it do uni work) and now I can’t think. So prepare for some incoherence…

(adding on here, I occasionally go on rants about other characters here (Gandalf). This was all very much written without plan)

BUT

Boromir

I don’t remember if he has all these little attributes in the books, I’m rereading them for the first time in a long time, so this will be focusing on movie Boromir.

Just… the way he’s the hobbits’ biggest advocate. When I saw the movies when I was younger I looked at him so critically. I interpreted him going “This will be the death of the hobbits.” when they were walking up Caradras (the big ass snowy mountain where Saruman attacks them from long distanced), as a manipulative way to just get them down from the mountain and have them go past Rohan, since that would be a more direct route of getting the Ring to Gondor (his home city).

I don’t think that’s the case anymore… Why was Boromir the only one noticing that these 3 foot something buddies are walking barefoot (hobbit barefoot but STILL) through at least 5 feet of snow? Everyone else is juts following Gandalf blindly, who really doesn’t wanna go through Moria (which is really their only other option). This is somewhat of a failing on Gandalf’s part to be honest. He loves his hobbits so much, yet it’s Boromir who sees them struggeling and who speaks up for them.

Boromir has known of hobbits’ existence for all but a few weeks and he’s already watching out for them better than Gandalf, the guys who’s been hanging out with hobbits for probably centuries (this is not meant to bash Gandalf, buddy’s doing the best he can but BOROMIR (also why would you put the choice to go through Moria on Frodo when you know what’s probably gonna happen down there? Gandalf why?)) Boromir has adopted all the hobbits. Yes.

I believe 100% this is a side effect of him being an older brother. He must protecc.

Also his relationship with Merry and Pippin!!! I know we only see him giving them sword fighting lessons once but I like to believe this was a regular thing. He was their bestest older bro.

But also his gentleness with Frodo? He sees that Frodo is blaming himself for Gandalf’s death. No one else, not even Sam as far as we know, read that in the guy. Boromir’s been through a lot of war, no doubt people have died perceivably due to his decisions as a leader of his people. He gets it. Or maybe he’s consoled Faramir in this way when Faramir lost Osgiliath the first time. He would have told Faramir that he made the best decisions with the information he had available, which is exactly what Frodo did.

I feel like Boromir is the most empathetic of the entire group, towards everyone. (Sam’s empathy is very Frodo focused, we’ve seen clearly with Smeagol that he doesn’t easily extend this empathy to others)

Also the way Boromir begs Aragorn to give the hobbits a second to grieve after Gandalf falls. Of course I’m not angry at Aragorn for switching off his feelings and making sure the group doesn’t get killed, but Boromir here is trying to take care of the group’s mental needs. He’s emotionally affected by Gandalf’s death, but I think primarily he’s worried about how it’s affecting everyone else and ge feels THEIR pain.

hdsidnfofn

How did a kiddo, who has been favored by his dad his entire life turn out this gentle? This caring?

And I think it’s that caring that the Ring latched on and twisted. Boromir doesn’t want the ring for power. He’s TERRIFIED. His entire life he’s been fighting a seemingly insurmountable army right next to his home city’s doors. He cares deeply for his people. I believe every death affects this man. And they are dying. And his father sent him on a mission, far away from those people he wants to protect, on a mission that Boromir knows his brother would be better suited for because his father for some reason has decided that his little brother is good for literally nothing.

He wants to bring this Ring back to get back to his people. He wants to save everyone. He wants to stop all the death.

Even as the Ring is taking him Boromir mentions seeing how the Ring is causing Frodo to suffer. There is probably some attempt at manipulation in there but I think this definately comes from genuine concern. In his eyes, this completely hopeless quest is going to get this innocent little guy messed up and eventually tortured to death. This little guy that really shouldn’t be here. That should be back in the Shire. The Shire that has remained untouched for so long, in part, because Gondor is holding Mordor back.

He just sounds so broken after realising he attacked Frodo. This man needs a hug.

And he dies protecting the innocent. He dies doing what he’s done his entire life.

I like to imagine his ghost just hanging around Faramir after he died… And just… panicking when seeing Faramir take Frodo prisoner. I believe the Ring taking Boromir was a huge wake up call for him, and I believe had he survived he would have wanted to do anything in his power to prevent the Ring from getting back to Gondor and corrupting everything and everyone he loves. He now knows what the thing does to the most well intentioned of people, and he does not want that to happen to his little brother.

Anyway. I feel like Boromir is the most human (no pun intended) character in all of LOTR. And yeah. I’m done now. Guess I ended up having more thoughts than I thought I would, huh?

Feeling pretty miserable feel free to yap abt your faves under this post 👍 I need to see some people be happy about their blorbos

[tanoraqui]

[cont. from here] [first post]

Frodo was more than happy to help with Celebrimbor’s experiments on the Ring. (Consciously happy. Each time, putting the Ring down on the table between them or casting it into the fire or whatever else the elf was testing this time, was…a moment’s hesitation. Never more, but never less.) He didn’t even really have to help so much as attend, which was good because it was several days before the chill weariness of the Wraith-King’s blade faded completely—and because he had absolutely no idea what Celebrimbor was doing, most of the time.

They started with fire, increasingly hot, from the small hearth in Frodo’s bedroom up through a small metal pipe which Celebrimbor and Elrond both swore wasn’t magic, even as it produced a flame so hot it was blue. None of them had the slightest affect on the Ring save to being it’s carved letters into bright relief.

Then they tried hitting it with a variety of weapons, or touching it gently—but Celebrimbor did seem to get more satisfaction from the violent sword strikes, even if he was thrown back each time. The important differences were not, Frodo was told, between sword and dagger and axe, but rather who had made them and for what. A dagger snapped; “Doriath-make,” Celebrimbor scoffed, and threw the shards away. Out of all of Rivendell’s armory and art, apparently the Ring reacted most to a beautiful belt wrought by the wizard Saruman. “That figures, I guess,” Celebrimbor muttered begrudgingly, and seemed a little relieved that it hasn’t been his own work.

On the third evening, the twin sons of Elrond returned from their ranging and together poked their heads into the room where Frodo and Sam were playing cards while Celebrimbor sang softly to the Ring in ancient Elvish and Gandalf looked on.

“Wow, Arwen wasn’t kidding,” one of them murmured.

“I still think the lisp is inherently—” He broke off and entered the room fully as Celebrimbor looked up, song fading. “Cousin Celebrimbor! I’m Elladan—”

“‘Ro, this isn’t the time for the usual prank,” the other interrupted. “I’m Elladan,” he corrected with a nod of a bow, “and this is Elrohir.” (“Lies,” the other said cheerfully.)

Elladan reached into his shirt pocket and drew out a shining crystal bauble, and held it out. “And this is a bit of the light of the Star of Eärendil, captured by our grandmother Galadriel. Father said we should loan it to you for a while for your experiments with the Enemy’s work.”

Celebrimbor stared at the crystal in frozen silence for so long that Frodo thought about patting his arm to rouse him, or about starting another hand of cards. Then he started pacing and shouting in Sindarin Elvish, barely stopping for breath

“What’s he saying now?” Sam leaned over their abandoned game to ask after several minutes of shouting with no sign of stopping.

“It’s hard to say,” Frodo hedged truthfully. Even when Celebrimbor spoke more modern Elvish tongues, his syntax was bafflingly archaic, and Frodo was just an amateur scholar of the written form anyway. “I think the gist is… Remember that time Nibs Cotton and his friends got a whole calf up in Party Tree, and everyone was angry about all the trouble it caused, or could have caused, but also a little impressed that they pulled it off at all? I’m going off of tone more than anything, but I think it’s like that.”

Sam nodded. “Aye, that was a right mess. The poor thing didn’t know where the ground had gone.”

Mostly the testing of the Ring involved Celebrimbor singing at it in various forms of Elvish, in various tones of voice, or just sitting and, as far as Frodo could tell, staring at it. (Thus Sam and sometimes Bilbo joining him to quietly play cards—and Merry and Pippin as well, but Pippin couldn’t sit without causing a distraction for long.) Once, Gandalf spoke to it in the Black Speech of Mordor, a guttural language that made Frodo’s eardrum’s tremble and the shadows grow long and terrible. The same cruel words burned again on the Ring’s outer edge.

Never did Celebrimbor touch the Ring. A few times his hand crept toward it, but yanked back as through burned at a sharp word from Elrond, Gandalf, or a sculptor named Lindwen who traded off watching the proceedings. Each time that happened, they took a break for a couple hours. Other times, Celebrimbor jerked back with a gasp at no prompting Frodo could see, or even stride wordlessly from the room. This, too, indicated a break.

Only once did anything worse happen. Frodo was reading in the light of the star-glass while Celebrimbor sang something that made it glow like a sunlit prism—well, a starlit prism—over the Ring on the table. Between one note and the next, there was a sudden flicker of pressure in the room, sweeping by and back with terrible focus as something searched, and Frodo knew it was the same great and burning Eye he’d glimpsed behind the Witch-King on Weathertop—

“Enough!” shouted Elrond, springing to his feet in the corner; Celebrimbor cried out and stumbled back, star-glass going dark in his clenched hand; Frodo threw down his book and leapt forward, snatched up the Ring and shoved it deep in his pocket again.

“Enough,” Elrond repeated calmly and firmly, when a minute had passed lit only by a flickering fireplace, interrupted only by Frodo’s frantically beating heart. “That’s enough study of this thing—enough for tonight, enough forever, in my house. We’ll have our council tomorrow; Celebrimbor, whatever you’ve learned of it by now will be enough.”

-

Celebrimbor was sitting against a laurel tree when Elrond found him later that night. There were hollies nearby; he had declined their company, though he could see them out of the corner of his eye. Elrond sat beside him without a word, because Elrond was wise.

Eventually, Celebrimbor said, “Overall, I think it may be a very foolish piece of work. Great and terrible and astonishing, yes, but he put so much of himself into it—he must be weak without it.”

“Plenty strong enough to threaten the world, unfortunately,” said Elrond. But his voice said he knew this wasn’t Celebrimbor’s true primary conclusion.

“Yes.”

As the autumn moonlight stretched the hollies’ shadows over the ground, Celebrimbor said, “I almost think that what he put into it was the…best parts of him. The creativity, the joy in clever, beautiful things—the lust for them, I should say, but isn’t that a kind of joy? He would’ve had to, in order to create such a marvel. Even a dark and monstrous marvel.”

Part of him remembered that Fëanor’s grandson couldn’t be heard saying such things. But it was only Elrond hearing them, and Elrond had always been wise, not to mention had his own opinions about both marvels and monsters.

And he couldn’t seem to stop speaking anyway.

“His ambition,” he mused, staring up at the stars through the treetops. “His ability to dream—or at least, his instinct for the dreams of others. Whatever Men he’s gathered to him this time, were they drawn in sweetly, or at least gloriously, or just terrorized? I’ve glimpsed that Eye twice now, and I see nothing but hatred and hunger for power, which isn’t the same thing at all.”

“Or is it?” he turned and demanded, feeling half-crazed. “Or is that just more false promises, the temptation that if I just reached out and took it, I could somehow restore, return to— He wore it as he took Eregion, as he tormented me for the others. He was whole when he forged it. So why can I not stop thinking—”

Elrond handed him a handkerchief, which was how Celebrimbor realized he was weeping. He took the excuse to hide his face and cover his mouth.

When he had collected himself enough to return the handkerchief, Elrond accepted it and said, hesitantly for him, “I confess myself surprised that you suffer this much. Did the Halls of Mandos not ease the pain of…everything?”

“Mandos eases the pain of dark times," Celebrimbor said, not remembering but he knowing he spoke truly, “but he is not so cruel as to strip one of memory of the light.”

“Ah.” Elrond’s eyes closed in perfect understanding. He shifted until their shoulders brushed together against the tree trunk. “I’m so sorry.”

[hallothere]

I broke down and wrote the essay. No, I did not and will not proofread it. I don’t waaaannaaaa

There’s Only One Winner For Isengard

In a perfect world, in a world with no meta requirements that could bend to the will of the player, we would roll up to Isengard level-capped, no debuffs, with one quest-marker on hand: Ruin Saruman’s day. But this is a pre-written sequence of events in which we are only along for the ride. We, the player, and a Ranger are shipped off to Isengard with only one conceivable goal: survive. On a meta level we know what Saruman is capable of. At level 70 or 80-something at best, even we are aware that we are no match for a wizard with a canon fate. Not to mention our Ranger companion! The Grey Company has been through enough (though we don’t know the half of it yet) and we are reasonably distraught at the possibilities.

This is why we, the player character, will lose the game of Isengard.

Beyond the meta rules of the game, where quest objectives are whatever the devs wanted them to be (looking at you, Mordrambor) the player character can not defeat Saruman in any way that’s meaningful. And (again on a meta level) in order for us to get to experience the action at Helm’s Deep and Rohan at large, we have to get out of Isengard. We’d get bored of waiting for Theoden and Co. We’d hurl insults or slap fish at Saruman and realistically incur wrath. Honestly, with the set of circumstances presented to us, who could survive imprisonment in Nan Curunir?

Only one of the Company ever could: Lothrandir of Suri Kyla. 

To begin with, none of the Rangers we have any real information on could have done it. Anyone who’s spent time in Angmar is at a disadvantage due to the prevailing dread (game mechanic or otherwise) that can be manipulated by Saruman. Any Ranger that has a major traumatic past is at a disadvantage (sorry Mincham) because if nothing else, Saruman has proven to be a master of illusion. Even Halbarad for all his leadership ability has a pretty exploitable weakness: eventually Saruman can crack the code with a vision of Aragorn’s demise, the one end Halbarad must fear above all others. Or what bond could more easily be exploited than that of a leader and his men? Lheu Brenin’s in the gang now after all. All Saruman would have to do was send for a few more incentives. 

But Lothrandir comes built with a few key advantages that make him the only Grey Company Ranger qualified to come out of this battle of wills on top. His specific strengths, mindset, and personality traits combined with the circumstances that the game sets up going into Isengard make him the clear choice of Rangers- if a Ranger you must have- to stay behind in Nan Curunir. 

Lothrandir wins because he changes the game. From ‘go’ our co-prisoner does something that either puzzles the player character or sends them into an anxious fit. Lothrandir declares himself fearless and sprints recklessly into the ring. Any way you figure it, this seems like a poorly calculated move. He doesn’t stop to survey the enemy. He doesn’t gather intel. Heck, he doesn’t even bide his time to see if he’ll be killed before he even reaches the dungeons. Lothrandir sprints right in without so much as a thought or a plan. Saruman doesn’t know it yet, but from that moment on Lothrandir has him on the back foot. 

Consider for a moment Saruman’s MO. He’s a wizard, and he uses a great deal of magic, sure, but time and time again we are reminded of the power of his voice and his words. He calls down a storm on Caradhras (in the movies for darn sure), he via-Wormtongue whispers poison into the ears of King Theoden. He doesn’t lead with any kind of grandiose display when trying to sway Gandalf. No, he leads with a persuasive argument. Later on, he nearly talks Theoden back around, after failing to wipe out all of Rohan. After killing the man’s son for goodness sakes. He nearly talks himself out of that one!

But Lothrandir has already changed this from a game of wits to a game of wills. There will be no vying for favor, or biding time, or compliance, or even giving Saruman a chance to ‘talk it over friendly’ first. He’s already spitting on the shoes of everyone he sees. The accomplishment in this is twofold, and it makes a major impact on the rest of his time in Nan Curunir. 

Firstly, by establishing a new game, Lothrandir sets Saruman up for a whole lot of assumptions. He does not display any signs of diplomatic ability, wisdom, or even common sense. He very intentionally projects an attitude of reckless disobedience. In the player’s own eyes, it seems as if he ‘doesn’t know any better’. This gives Saruman a clear path to take regarding Lothrandir. He assumes you can’t reason the typical way with someone who has shown zero inclination for listening. The player character demonstrates that the Grey Company (or least their associates) are capable of compliance. For all intents and purposes, this Lothrandir doesn’t appear to be. He’s contrary, fool-hardy, and evidently dumb enough to dive in headfirst and get himself killed. You beat that kind of guy into submission… don’t you?

But Lothrandir has changed the rules of the game. Saruman is no longer fighting with his best weapon, but with a tool to be found in any old villain’s arsenal. When he took the approach of reasoning with the player character and disregarding Lothrandir, he set the victor’s foundation on our snow-pilgrim’s greatest strength. 

Secondly, by establishing a new game, Lothrandir makes this a battle of physical endurance. Unbeknownst to Saruman, this is the one thing that makes him stand out from the rest of the Grey Company. He has walked through the frozen north lands and the fiery south lands and come out unscathed. He has mastered the unarmed combat style of the Lossoth by joining in mid-winter wrestling matches in a place that took down many Elves, Angmarim, and notably one King of Arthedain! Lothrandir has conceivably spent his entire life training for this matchup. Any endurance he has built up, any fighting he can do without access to a weapon, all are assets to the kind of game he just made Saruman play. Lothrandir is uniquely built to survive any physical torment Isengard can throw at him, or at least, better equipped than any of the others. 

To say Lothrandir is the best choice, we also have to rule out the others. Corunir was thwarted by the Rammas Deluon and for all he learned from that, it’s a weak spot in his proverbial armor. Golodir too, resisted a fair degree of torture (palantiri based, even!) in Carn Dum, but it won’t be hard for Saruman to suss that one out and make our old man’s life a living nightmare. Even Radanir, serious and seemingly unattached to any social bonds now that his good pal Elweleth has gone sailing, would be a poor choice. He is too serious, (for lack of a better term) too genre-savvy, and even if he is spitting blood and delivering a witty one-liner, that’s Saruman’s foot in the door! ‘I’ll never betray my friends and kin, you kaleidoscope hack’? You’ve just told him your weakness, Radanir! No, he can’t keep his mouth shut to save his (or Saerdan’s) life. Radanir is the wrong choice too.

We don’t know a significant amount about the others (except Ranger death would move Calenglad to tears, we can’t put him through this) in order to pinpoint their fatal flaws in the Isengard encounter. But, the game puts us in the incredible position of having seen Lothrandir’s Achilles’ heel and letting us take that disadvantage away. 

Lothrandir of Suri Kyla is uniquely equipped to survive any physical encounter that Saruman throws his way. Now, who’s to say the wizard won’t change his tune and go back to his old tricks? In an incredible twist of fate, we are. The game sets us, the player, up to play Saruman’s game from the get-go. We keep our pixelated head down, try and fly below the radar, and express just enough concern over the fate of our fool-hardy pal to get Saruman to cement his estimation of Lothrandir as a pawn in the game in stone. By making ourselves the better target for the words of a wily wizard, Saruman decides that the best way to deal with the spare prisoner is by playing right into his hands. As we all know, the player character escapes. While that might seem bad for someone who Saruman has earmarked for corporal punishment only, it covers Lothrandir’s one weakness. 

Aside from being the only significant unarmed fighter, Lothrandir is also never painted as a loner. He spends his time in Suri Kyla, hanging out with the Lossoth and sharing their campfires. In the new questline in Forochel, he jumps at the chance to make a new Dunedain friend and takes to King Arvedui like a duck to water. They’re instant best pals. It’s minutes before Lothrandir is telling him Aragorn’s life story and pledging to go with him on a buddy adventure to seek peace for a regretful shade. And if that’s not enough canon for you, Lothrandir bears the brunt of the Falcon clan aggression on the way to Isengard. He does it for you, his friend and companion in suffering. It’s a bit meta, but we have to assume in the internal universe he knows you a little. You’ve run your merry adventures to a degree where, were this not a video game, Lothrandir would at least consider you an ally if not a friend outright. 

He exposes his weakness unwittingly to the Falcon clan, but he leaves it at the gates of Isengard in an extremely well-timed move. By sprinting through the gates without a care as to what’s going on with you or anyone else, Lothrandir establishes an emotional distance between you both in the eyes of any onlookers. Whatever affection you have for him, it doesn’t seem reciprocated. This isn’t a major weakness for Saruman to exploit, then. You’re not one of his kinsmen. If he did want to pursue that line, he could always send to Tur Morva for one, right?

This is where the game comes back in to shift the tide in Lothrandir’s favor. We escape. We play the game, we nearly lose the game, and had we not been given an out the power scaling makes it difficult to conceive of an outcome where we the player can win Isengard. Sure, we’ve been released from prisons before (Delossad to name one) but this is the climax of Dunland. We make a daring escape, and move south towards the Gap of Rohan and all sorts of bad times. 

Back in Nan Curunir, Lothrandir is getting the daylights beat out of him, and taking a victory lap. He’s cemented his position as ‘the prisoner we’ll break with violence’. The uruks have seen him insubordinate and disorderly. In the Lothrandir interlude, there’s not only the canon (stated outright!) reality of past and present torture. There’s also zero hesitation in Lothrandir taking that one on the chin. There are no other objectives on his mind than making the next few minutes as miserable as possible for everyone around. He has no other goals. And he doesn’t need them. Nobody is surprised that Lothrandir is signing his death warrant within nanoseconds of being presented an offer to comply. He spits on the offer. He tips over the slop bucket. He beats bloody any orc (and gameplay purposes aside there are very few that dare come forward) that actually tries to kill him for it outright. 

He’s built up a non-rapport with Gun Ain. She talks about killing him and he doesn’t say anything. They’re all playing his game and he’s winning. In the conversation with Saruman, we’re not given the opportunity to watch Lothrandir ‘resist’ in the same fashion the player character did. We don’t need to. Saruman has bigger and better things to worry about- killing a prince, wiping out a nation- than one Ranger who he’s just going to order well-flayed again. By setting himself up as the punching bag, Lothrandir has managed to fly beneath Saruman’s priority threshold. He’s been relegated to the responsibility of Gun Ain, and still with somewhat protected status because they haven’t wormed anything useful out of him yet.

All of these moves have culminated to an impasse. Saruman is not winning points in the game like he expected. One ‘meathead Ranger’ has managed to resist all the torments of Isengard, and he’s gained nothing from this. The other prisoner escaped, word had doubtless reached him that the Tur Morva Thirty-Odd are free and raring to be a thorn in his side again. He has no external leverage to apply on Lothrandir and it’s become increasingly obvious that our Ranger friend is not engaging like the player did. But still, Saruman has his pride. It’s his downfall in the end, and it’s his downfall in his fight against the one Ranger who’s already beating him. Lothrandir can’t be killed outright because Saruman hasn’t won yet. And with that guarantee of protection, Lothrandir can coast all the way to the conquest of Isengard. 

He can keep playing the game and stalling for time. It’s morbid, but what better way to waste someone’s time and energy than convincing them slow, drawn-out torture is the way to go? A little extreme, Lothrandir, but it’s still his game to lose. He wastes Saruman’s time. If he is eventually rescued, total victory. If he’s killed in the end, he definitely didn’t give the wizard the satisfaction, so a less resounding victory but one in the win column nonetheless. 

With a little help from our usually Ranger-cidal devs, Lothrandir reprograms Saruman’s game of chess to a boxing match. He takes out all his disadvantages, gets Isengard to attack from a point of... if not weakness then at least neutral ability, and then devotes his every waking breath to violent disobedience.

Sure, you could have taken any of the Grey Company with you to Isengard. Lheu Brenin could have swapped out for Braigar or Amlan or Mithrendan or Culang- but only one of these guys has the brute strength, commitment, and sheer audacity to pull it off. 

You take Lothrandir to Orthanc. There’s a different prisoner of Nan Curunir when he leaves.

[angelsanctuarys]

It is clear that this is going to be a stalemate because no one here is going to change their opinion and quite frankly that is a good thing because I don't think that should be the point. Both authors have solid points and both are valid. You are absolutely right when you say "It's hard to be good, keep hoping and to trust".

Lotr shows exactly that, with the burden that it is to be the ring bearer. The One Ring is the very embodiment of the concept of Evil, it has a will of its own and it will absolutely corrupt one's mind. The example of the dichotomy between Sméagol / Gollum shows exactly that, how one is easily swayed by the allure of darkness and how it affects someone for the rest of their days. As well intentioned Frodo was and how resilient he has proved to be to the One Ring's influence, even he was feeling the toll of its maliciousness by the end. Sam was the one who helped him to carry his task until the end and even so the wounds and trauma of such task caused undeletable scars on Frodo to the point that everything that he once held dear no longer felt the same. He had seen too many horrors for everything to be the same again. It is an herculean task to keep the goodness in you alive in face of evil. You also said "When you’re past the point where Gondor has fallen and evil rules." Thing is, it did. The Scouring of the Shire does ilustrate that. It is true that the bulk of Sauron's army was destroyed at the Gates of Mordor but not everything was solved then and things went back to normal. When the hobbits returned to the Shire they found out that it had been overtaken by a Saruman in disguise that had managed to weasel his way into influencing others into doing his bidding and even a place so idyllic as the Shire had fallen into the hands of darkness. It had fallen and evil was very much ruling, in the most unforgiving and brutal way, where no one trusted no one. Mordor had come to their home; everything the hobbits have fought so hard for had been ruined in the end. Despair took over them at first, blaming outside forces until they start to realize that its corruption, started from within. It was the greed of one person who opened the gates for the war to enter the Shire and devastate everything. It was thanks to the 4 hobbits' resilience and refusal of lowering their arms that they were able to recover their home and start the healing process. I do understand your point when you say to not dismiss the ones you thought were evil, because they might be fighting for your rights. Absolutely true and I love the message. In similar fashion, Tolkien shows how the ones you absolutely no faith in suceeding may be the ones who will come to your rescue when everything seems hopeless. In the end, I believe, that their messages end up showing two sides of the same coin, both ideas coexist perfectly for in the end the true message of both works converges into the same idea: it doesn't matter who you are, you are more than enough to fight for what is good in this world.

[themoonlily]

Hi! I found your stories on a ficrec list for Eomer/Lothiriel and WOW!!! MUCH LOVE!!!!! I can't wait to read more wonderful stories from you! Can I ask what got you into this pairing, and what draws you to them? Also: any headcannons about them? (Physical/personality/hobbies/etc.)

Hi there! I am so glad to hear you like my stories. :)

I would say that I got to Éothiriel thanks to Éomer. I can't say I fell in love with him straightaway - I was your typical Aragorn fangirl back in the day (mind you, he’s still one of my favourite characters in the legendarium). I had always enjoyed the bits with Rohan in particular, and the more I watched the films, the more I liked Éomer, and once I had read the books a couple of times, I realised there was so much more to this guy. I loved his integrity, his unashamed passion, his loyalty and devotion to his family and friends, and how he strives to do better and learn. 

His arc in the books is such a fascinating one. He starts out as a scion of one of the leading families of Rohan (and is a son of a princess, no less), but is orphaned along with his sister at an early age, and then raised by the King himself. What kind of a trauma did that loss leave him with, and how did it affect his relationship with his sister? Were his teenage years very difficult thanks to this? At the time of the events of LOTR, he’s a fairly young man - among the youngest of the entire cast - and yet he has this hugely important duty as the Third Marshal of the Mark. He’s passionate but also ready to put himself and his own needs aside in order to do what’s right. The whole House of Eorl dynamics are just so fascinating, even though a lot of it happens outside the actual narrative of LOTR. What are his relationships with his uncle, his cousin, and his sister? How does this partnership with Théodred grow (to the point of Saruman seeing these two as the chief obstacle of the easy conquest of Rohan)? What does it feel like to watch his beloved uncle fall under the influence of ill-intended counsels (not to mention the threat of Wormtongue against Éowyn)? Éomer is portrayed as a fairly temperamental guy, so I can only imagine the fury he must feel at the situation. 

But then Théodred dies, the noose tightens around everybody’s throats, and one may just imagine the desperation and dread he must feel at this point. He’s still figthing and trying to do the right thing, even if that may now mean treason. But he’s still friendly to Aragorn and co. when they meet, recognising them as an opportunity to help Rohan almost immediately. 

He’s so loyal to his family that even after he’s been disgraced and humiliated by Wormtongue by the proxy of Théoden, he still knows where the true malice is coming from, and is ready to fight again for his uncle the moment he’s released. And he slips straight back to being the King’s lieutenant without even blinking his eyes. 

There’s also how Éomer becomes king. I’m fascinated with what it would feel like to him. I mean, he’s been second in line to the throne his whole life, so he probably always realised there’s a chance he’ll be king one day. But the circumstances he comes to the throne - the near ruin of his country, the tragic and violent death of his cousin he might have been able to prevent if not for Wormtongue, the brief time he has with his restored uncle, and then the whole mess of the War of the Ring... all that must feel pretty surreal for him. And, of course, the Battle of Pelennor’s fields, and his scenes in it... wow. Him nearly losing his mind over thinking his sister (and whole family) is dead, charging like a madman over the field, composing some pretty amazing poetry in the spur of the moment, and then just laughing in sheer defiance against what seems like imminent death. What a dude. 

And then there are so many other interesting aspects: how he must have felt over those long years (was he unhappy? was he lonely?), what he expected his life to be versus what it turned out to be, and what it did to him to watch his family leave one by one. I could go on, but then we would be here whole day. 

So, enter Lothíriel. Of course I was eager to know what happens to Éomer after the war is over, and fortunately, Tolkien had an answer ready - although he could really have told us more about them! Not that in canon there is anything to imply it was a love marriage, but personally, I don’t think that a man with a disposition like Éomer would submit to a loveless or faithless marriage (or that he’d risk his relationship with Imrahil by being faithless). I just can’t see it happening. Also I just want him to be happy, and find someone who brightens up his days, someone who won’t leave him. It’s nice to imagine him having a new start with her.  

Sadly, of her personality I can’t say anything that would be indicated by canon, but if we imagine her being anything like her father, then she might be a proud, strong and brave woman. Well, she would probably have to be courageous to leave her homeland for marriage (another reason I think it was a love union, because I want her to be happy, too)! I like to imagine her finding some unexpected, unimagined freedom in Rohan, perhaps even fulfilment of ambition in her role as a queen. Also, maybe with her background and if she had access to some kind of education, she’d be uniquely qualified to helping Éomer to rule and counseling him. Perhaps she even feels some personal pride over the fact that together, they are starting a new dynasty (or a new line) to rule in Rohan. Also, having a fairly big family, I think she would be well equipped to show him the love he has missed most of his life.  

I recall at some point reading the appendix about the House of Eorl, and that Éomer married Imrahil’s daughter, Lothíriel, and thinking yes, this makes sense. It’s just the sense I gleaned from the interactions and circumstances of the story. Of course Éomer would have strong feelings for Imrahil, since he was the one who saw that Éowyn was still alive and hastened her delivery to safety. Being a man of strong emotions, I think Éomer would hold Imrahil and his entire family in high regard thanks to this. Maybe it’s even a ground from which some attachment did grow between him and Lothíriel. Also, Rohirrim are a culture based on horses, and apparently the Princes of Dol Amroth also maintain a cavalry (the Swan Knights who, with Imrahil, took part in the Battle of Pelennor fields). So I see there definitely being a lot of points of connection! 

Of course, it also fits the socio-political frame we are left with at the end of the story: the new unity among the Free Peoples, the task of rebuilding after the war, and this new blooming of the friendship between Rohan and Gondor. On a purely logical level, it is reasonable that he’d marry the daughter of a powerful house like Imrahil’s. But for my purely headcanonish “aesthetic” (if that’s even the right word) reasons I do like the contrast these two make: their different cultures (and all that they entail from songs and poetry to foods and habits), their union as the union of earth and sea, his gold to her silver, the warrior and the lady... also this is purely headcanon/tropes but I definitely think of them as tol/smol and embodying the pair where A is the reason B began to smile again. (Tol/smol is at least half canon because Éomer is apparently as tall as Aragorn, like 6 feet 6 if I recall right. Since he’s also a professional warrior, he’s probably built like it too.)

So, yeah - I guess that’s already a lot of reasons for why I love this pair! There’s just so much potential there, so many avenues to pursue, and so much food for imagination. If you’re interested in more of my headcanons, you could try searching the tag “Éothiriel” in my blog - I’ve got plenty of posts about them! 

Thanks for the ask, and sorry for this answer being so long! I rather got carried away and Éomer deserves every bit of the love he gets, and so does Lothíriel. 

[warrioreowynofrohan]

The Leithian Reread - Canto XI (The Departure for Angband)

This chapter contains - at the reunion of Beren and Lúthien - my favourite passage in the Leithian, and one of my favourites that Tolkien has ever written, and I think part of my reason for delaying is that I wasn’t sure how to do it justice. But that’s a little farther on.

The chapter opens with a brief account of the Siege of Angband and the Dagor Bragollach. It’s a very strong section of the poem, to the point where it’s hard to know which specific portions to quote; the rhyme and cadence and imagery is all excellent, and is enhanced by a kind of triptych structure from beauty to fire to ruin:

Once wide and smooth a plain was spread,

where King Fingolfin proudly led

his silver armies on the green,

his horses white, his lances keen;

his helmets tall of steel were hewn,

his shields were shining as the moon.

...

Rivers of fire at dead of night

in winter lying cold and white

upon the plain burst forth, and high

the red was mirrored in the sky.

...

Dor-na-Fauglith, Land of Thirst,

they after named it, waste accurst,

the raven-haunted roofless grave

of many fair and many brave.

The description of the dark forest of Taur-nu-Fuin is also wonderfully evocative: sombre pines with pinions vast, / black-plumed and drear, as many a mast / of sable-shrouded shops of death / slow wafted on a ghostly breath.

One of the great recurring themes in Tolkien is the way that all evil, whatever its initial motive and impetus, falls in the end to ruin for ruin’s sake, to the destruction and defilement of all things as a end rather than a means. The image of the Anfauglith is repeated with the desolation before Mordor (gasping pools choked with ash and crawling muds, sickly white and grey, as if the mountains had vomited the filth of their entrails upon the lands about...great cones of earth fire-blasted and poison-stained) and the ruin that Saruman makes of Isengard (trees hewn down and replaced with pillars of metal and stone, joined by heavy chains; meadows paved over; underground furnaces with vents emitting steams, like a graveyard of the unquiet dead), and even Lotho and Saruman’s harm to the Shire (from knocking down Sandyman’s mill to make a bigger one that wasn’t needed, to the mill under Saruman not grinding grain at all but only making smoke and stench and fouling the water).

It’s not as if there is a fundamental benefit to Sauron in making the ruin in front of the Black Gate, or to Saruman in his attempts to destroy the Shire; both start out at one point with the aim of “fixing” the world and putting it in order, and this degenerates into control and rule for its own sake, and then into purposeless malice against not only people but the land itself, with misery and destruction as the only aim. We see small echoes of it elsewhere, as at Losgar.

This theme provides a strong contrast to Beren’s song before his departure across the Anfauglith, which is centred on celebration of nature and creation for its own sake, in and of itself, without any thought of control or ownership. The song fits with Beren’s demonstrated love of nature in earlier chapters, where during his lone guerilla war against Sauron he eats only plants, and is friend and allues with the animals of Dorthonion and with nature-spirits (minor Maiar?) as well: and many spirits, that in stone / in mountains old and wastes alone / do dwell and wander, were his friends. (It also has some echoes in Sam’s song in the Tower of Cirith Ungol.)

The song is given here in longer form than in The Silmarillion:

Farewell now here, ye leaves of trees,

your music in the morning-breeze!

Farewell now blade and bloom and grass

that see the changing seasons pass;

ye waters murmuring over stone,

and meres that silent stand alone!

The song also evokes a lot of the themes that came up in my discussion of CS Lewis’ The Four Loves, particularly the part on eros. Beren has virtually no expectation of coming back alive; he expect to die at best, or be captured and tortured at worst. But making the attempt is, to him, better than willfully choosing a life separated from Lúthien, and better than risking her coming to harm because of him. (The latter, as she will soon point out, is no longer something he has any choice about!) Both of them prefer the very high probability of torment or death over being parted from each other.

Additionally, Beten’s song is one of the purest expressions within Tolkien’s works of the element of admiration in love: delight in the beloved in their own right, above and beyond anything that has happened or will happen or any connection to you personally:

Though all to ruin fell the world / and were dissolved and backward hurled / unmade into the old abyss / yet were its making good, for this / the dawn, the dusk, the earth, the sea / that Lúthien for a time should be!

This feels, also, like it is getting at something deep within the mood of Tolkien’s works, where so much is destroyed or fades or is lost: the existence of beauty and goodness continues to be good, to be meaningful, even when the good and beautiful things have themselves passed away. They were, and that is better than if they had never been.

And here we come to my favourite part of the entire Leithian:

“Ah, Beren, Beren!” came a sound,

“almost too late have I thee found!

O proud and fearless hand and heart,

not yet farewell, not yet we part!

Not thus do those of elven race

forsake the love that they embrace.

A love is mine, as great a power

as thine to shake the gate and tower

of death with challenge weak and frail

that yet endures, and will not fail

nor yield, unvanquished were it hurled

beneath the foundations of the world.

Beloved fool! escape to seek

from such pursuit; in might so weak

to trust not, thinking it well to save

from love thy loved, who welcomes grave

and torment sooner than in guard

of kind intent to languish, barred,

wingless and helpless him to aid

for whose support her love was made!”

Thus back to him came Lúthien:

they met beyond the ways of Men;

upon the brink of terror stood

between the desert and the wood.

This returns to the previously-stated theme around eros: for Lúthien, being captured and tirmented in Angband is a better fate than willingly parting from him, or allowing him to leave her behind for her protection. And this, I think, is why Beren and Lúthien succeed in gaining the Silmaril: be ause their goal is not the Silmaril, their goal is each other.

But there’s more to it than that. I love the passage for Lúthien’s assertion that it is not Beren’s chouce whether she can risk danger and death for his sake. He does not have either the power or the right to protect her from her love of him. (I do think it’s something of a wonder that he still decides to go ahead with the Quest after this rather the the alternative of “let’s elope and be nature-hobos together”, but a lifetime of looking over your shoulders for the forces of Angband and the Fëanorians [yes, I think C&C would’ve gone after them out of spite even without the Quest, given their behaviour in the previous chapter] and Doriathrim sent to kidnap Lúthien back home is daunting in its own way; at least this way, if they succeed it will be over.)

This also goes for friendship (philia): in The Lord of the Rings hobbits express the same sentiment in more commonplace terms, in Merry’s, “You cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo,” and Sam’s “I’m coming too, or neither of us isn’t going. I’ll knock holes in all the boats first.” Or, even more so, in another line of Sam’s during the Breaking of the Fellowship:

“All alone and without me to help you? I couldn’t have a borne it, it’d have been the death of me.”

“It would be the death of you to come with me, Sam,” said Frodo, “and I could not have borne that.”

“Not as certain as being left behind,” said Sam.

Returning to the Leithian: Beren is still reluctant to have Lúthien accompany him into danger. And has a line here whose sentiment always seems to show up in my thoughts about Maedhros and Fingon (“Thrice now mine oath I curse,” he said, “that under shadow thee hath led!”)

Huan, returning with disguises for Beren and Lúthien, uses his second of three lifetime chances of speech to back up Lúthien’s point, and to advise them to disguise themselves as Draugluin and Thuringwethil. This includes one of the more amusing lines in the Leithian, with Huan’s Lo! good was Felagund’s device, but may be bettered. Hi, Finrod, you’re being patronized by a dog. :D He thinks you get, maybe, a B+ on the tactics planning. (Beren gets an F, quite bluntly: Hopeless the quest, but not yet mad, unless thou, Beren, run thus clad in mortal raiment, mortal hue, witless and redeless, death to woo.)

Lúthien uses magic to disguise them effectively, and to prevent the terrible disguises from affecting their minds; it’s difficult, skillful, and lengthy work: With elvish magic Lúthien wrought / lest raiment foul with evil fraught / to a dreadful madness drive their hearts / and there she wrought with elvish arts / a strong defence, a binding power / singing until the mdnight hour.

It is a few days’ journey across the Anfauglith to the gates of Angband and, again, reminiscent of Frodo and Sam’s journey through Mordor; briefer, but also worse in some respects, as they have neither food nor water.

[agirlunderarock]

How I accidentally wrote 20 page paper on Boromir for one of my Final Ever University Papers PART 1

Alright so I theres really no place to start this post other than with one of the research exercises my professor was having us do to build up the paper. Actually I should probably state for the record that this last class I was taking was a Tolkien and Lewis University class I had been waiting to take since my freshman year and dropped a drama minor for. I really wanted to take directing and am still a teeny bit sad about it.  But anyway the professor encouraged us to to just dig around our library’s online resources and just look up basic search terms and work towards the more specific topics from there. A lot of people started with things like “friendship and the lord of the rings” or “colonialism and the chronicles of narnia” or searched by characters.

 I started the class thinking I was going to end up going the feminist route and like a which wore it (it being feminism) better type thing between the books in the movies, and of course that would mean the focus would be on Eowyn, who I’m still surprised no one took the opportunity to write about, BUT I thought Hey why not look to see what academics are saying about Boromir? A complex character like that is bound to have a shit load of articles.

And so I searched

and I searched

I checked the library shelves for references to articles,

I checked scholarly websites

I looked everywhere I could think of for about a week

and you know the only time I pulled up anything on Boromir?

When I did searches for “Samwise Gamgee and loyalty” “Aragorn and leadership” and of course I tried more specific search terms, but again the only time Boromir even appeared in an article was to be the antithesis to Aragorn or Sam or Frodo or ANY OF THE CHARACTERS AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT.

He was never the subject of any academic paper only the shit stain for a paper on Obedience as heroism in the Lord of the rings that focused on Sam- which I have beef with that paper but I’m getting ahead of myself. 

Naturally this meant one thing

I had to write the paper myself

You know those times when you want to read a fanfic and you go looking for a fanfic to fill your oddly specific need need of the day, and you can’t find it, but you find something maybe a little similar, but it either takes a horrible turn or is super out of character and just leaves you more dissatisfied, and you sit there not  sure how to go on, and then you realize you have to write the fanfic yourself. That was the exact feeling I had, except this was like nearly two months into an already short semester and how I did in the class would affect my graduation standings.

So I ended up rereading a few articles, digging through a Tolkien encyclopedia that made me question a great many things including using it as a resource because no one caught that one of the writers called Galadriel Arwen’s mother, and some of Tolkien’s letters, in which Boromir is mentioned a total of 3 times

1. to say that he is Faramir’s brother

2. To complain about how they misspelled his name in I think it was one of the cartoon versions 

3. and in a letter to Naomi Mitchison, “Pardonable, perhaps (though at least Boromir has been overlooked) in people in a hurry…But in any case  this is a tale about a war, and if war is allowed (at least as a topic and a setting) it is not much good complaining that all the people on one side are against those on the other. Not that I have made even this issue quite so simple: there are Saruman, and Denethor, and Boromir; and there are treacheries and strife even among the Orcs.”

That last one makes four but you know what I mean, yes I did pull this quote directly from my paper. I have more context in the paper before just throwing it in, give me some credit-

But anyway, what it came down to at least what I found in the research was the context everyone was examining Boromir.

All day every day, these Tolkien academics were drowning the Lord of the Rings in a Christian lense ( I say this as a Catholic) and read Boromir’s attempt to take the Ring (I capitalize the Ring for reason that I’ll get to later) from Frodo as a grab for power as acting disobediently against the groups wishes or something, Its been a year since I’ve touched this stuff okay, so I kinda tossed that out the window and looked at his character and his character arc from a political stand point- specifically Hobbsian politics. And I actually got asked a question about this- like what would Catholism have to say about this other view I’m taking (I went to a Catholic university go figure) and I didn’t have an answer until I had already taken a picture with my big ol $75 check for placing second. But I basically realized the difference is and really it isn’t a difference, I think it reads or can be read anyway, as someone just giving in to fear and anxiety. It was never about power or self righteousness. Boromir was terrified and desperate, and being in close proximity to the Ring heightens all of that, so of course things are going to happen, of course he’s going to lose his faith in his friends and himself. To compare him and his life experiences to someone like Aragorn, or Sam, makes absolutely no sense, especially when they have different goals and different loyalties. Don’t believe me think good and long about it while I figure out the best way to type up part two, because I haven’t shown you the differences or what some of the articles actually said.

Parts Two and 

Part Three 

[caitlinsfandomthoughts]

A film fan’s reaction to reading The Lord of the Rings for the first time.

I’ve been a big fan of the Peter Jackson films (extended versions - nerd that I am) since I was about 11 and I think I know all of the big changes made in the adaptation: Arwen, Faramir, Aragorn falling off a cliff. I did read the first book around the same age (in the first of many waves of my lotr obsession) but I only really remembered Saruman of ‘Many Colours’.

However I have always wanted to properly know the book version of the story so finally started listening to an amazing full audio book reading by Steven Red Fox Garnett which I highly recommend:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwLvFU2onc7cPIEBee-_xMw

………………………………………………………………………………….

And here are my silly reactions and occasional analysis of the differences between book and film that I didn’t know about.  

The Fellowship of the Ring part six, one, two, three, four, five

The Great River:

Oh Boromir’s feeling tempted

The first time Sam sees Gollum, he tells someone (Frodo) and actually voices his suspicion that it IS Gollum. Frodo’s been seeing him since THE SHIRE, and probably suspected who it was since Moria? At least Lorien, but is like nah I’ll keep this info to myself. Oh Frodo you are too much like me.

Sam says he’ll watch for tonight but Frodo insists that he wake him during and they share the duty. I want to see more of this breaking down of class boundaries.

The build up to seeing Gollum has had legitimate tension in it that it doesn’t in the films so much as he is only seen once, or twice, I think twice. And every scene when he is ‘seen’ has been frightening, as has the Balrog and Moria in general. This is a credit to the book but I also wonder if these scenes in particular work well with the medium of audiobook. The times I have been listening to them have often been in bed at night with the lights off, so that adds to the experience.

TIME works differently in Lorien! Is this how elves experience the world? Is this how they live forever they’re just on a much slower timeline?

The third Aragorn-Boromir moment I miss from the film is when Boromir is actually trying to get Aragorn to face up to his duty to Gondor (I really love how he switches between ‘Gondor needs no king, and ‘Aragorn please come to Minas Tiriiiith it’s really preeeetty!’) and Aragorn says something like ‘I will not lead the ring within x leagues of your city.’ Film Boromir is currently filling the role of heir to the leadership of Gondor that Aragorn should be. His temptation by the ring is also a reason Aragorn is afraid of taking that role. The film not only makes Aragorn less perfect, but also weaves his and Boromir’s arcs together in a way I would’ve liked in the book.

 The Breaking of the Fellowship:

Boromir is not dead! What?! Boromir lives! Well for slightly longer than I thought, I really thought I knew all the changes like this but nope.

I mean, I probably wouldn’t really leave Frodo, the guy with the ring, alone when they know the enemy is close behind them, even for an hour but ok.

I like Boromir’s give me the ring speech, it’s similar to the film, but there is just more of it, he mostly comes off as genuinely believing his justifications rather than being power hungry, and they are pretty convincing, it’s easy to see why he would believe them. A couple of people just ‘simply walking into Mordor’ with no real plan and their most powerful and wise member of the group dead is really unlikely to work. He does eventually say that he would be king, but this doesn’t really seem to be his true motivation to me, it’s more the ring’s influence, I think he is more deeply moved by the fear that this plan will fail. I do actually love that idealism wins in the end and the message that using power, or a terrible weapon always corrupts. But I also love that Boromir isn’t strawmanned I guess, that you can see both points of view even when you ultimately only agree with one makes it a more compelling conflict.

Frodo take the ring off! Seriously though I do like that it is difficult to do that, it makes sense, and we get to hear that Frodo is fighting an invisible battle (while invisible himself hehe) when he puts the ring on, I think it is a little clearer here than the equivalent moment in the film.

It’s been way over the hour that Frodo said he needed and you still haven’t gone to see if he’s ok?!!!

Sam knows Frodo best, he knows why he would try to go on his own (for the sake of the others not in spite of them) and he also knows it’s a dumb idea and he needs someone/him. I also love that Sam is the first person Frodo thinks of when he thinks of the others he cares about, then Merry and Pippin, then ‘Strider’ I don’t think it necessarily would have been that way when they first set off.

Frodo you would be dead so many times over or just be in a cave somewhere with the ring if it wasn’t for Sam! Or really anyone, you need people. It’s interesting to look at it from a mental health lens, particularly the way the ring affects the hobbits. Frodo, was already a little bit of an outsider in the Shire, now with the ring he slowly has to battle more and more to maintain his sanity. Frodo doesn’t ask for help enough, he doesn’t tell anyone about Gollum, but Sam does (even if that person was just Frodo and not Aragorn) and now he thinks he’ll be better off on his own, with a combination of I can’t trust others, and those I do I don’t want to put them in danger, don’t want to burden them with my burden. And Sam is like, that’s not possible, no one can do that, you need people to help, especially given the burden you carry. I know that Sam is very influenced by the WWI batmen, and Frodo and Sam function as an idealised version of a master-servant relationship. But because I’m not a big fan of that I like seeing Sam’s relationship to Frodo as being that of a carer (as well as friend) in a mental health setting, through this lens he is a reminder to Frodo, the one figuratively struggling with his mental health, that you don’t have to, nor should you do it all alone.

And while I realise the reasoning of ‘I can’t go with the whole fellowship cause they’ll all go the way of Boromir’ is sound, I think Frodo takes it too far the other way by thinking he can/has to do it alone and I think we’re meant to see it that way, hence Sam.

Aragorn doesn’t see Frodo after Boromir does like in the film, although I liked this scene I think it works better without it, Aragorn letting Frodo go on his own seemed pretty unrealistic, and Frodo being assured that Aragorn can be trusted, unlike Boromir, lessens the believability of him deciding to go on his own. Here while they all give him way too much time to think given the danger, no-one seems to be saying we should let him go on his own, and they all rush off to find him when they realise he’s trying that. There’s more chaos as everyone goes off without listening to Aragorn, that’s a scene I would have liked to have seen in the film, and I think I’ll add it to my own personal collated headcanon.  

 *And that’s the end of book 1. I think I’ll post some final thoughts on it at some point then move onto the Two Towers*

[theusurpersdog]

Why The Long Night Felt Hollow

So a bunch of fans, r/Freefolk in particular, are vehemently against the Night King’s death in episode three. To them, its entirely unthinkable that D&D took the series’ overarching villain and killed him halfway through the final season, with 4 more hours of Game of Thrones to go. And while I disagree with them, I also think the show itself is partially responsible for the outrage. I believe GRRM will also defeat the Others before the “politics” of the series are finished, but his version will be much more satisfying because he is writing a fundamentally different story - a story of human tragedy and triumph, not a game of thrones. 

First, I’d like to establish why I think GRRM will defeat the White Walkers before he wraps up the rest of his story. His quotes on JRR Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings are some pretty strong evidence:

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

And the scouring of the Shire —brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: ’Why is this here? The story’s over?’ But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for.

The first quote shows just how committed to the logistical side of ruling GRRM is. He is unsatisfied with the idea that just because someone is a hero, they would make a great King. And not only that, but GRRM is also heavily invested in the idea that good people can do awful things because they see it as a necessity. His example of killing the Orcs - how would one handle that humanly? Is it possible? That’s the question GRRM is trying to explore. His quote sets up that the after matters to him, how is his rulers going to clean up after the Others destroy the North and potentially more of Westeros?

The second quote is widely misunderstood by the BNF’s of the fandom. They seem to interprete GRRM’s quotes on the Scouring of the Shire as foreshadowing for the Starks reclaiming and rebuilding Winterfell in a post-Others world. This kind of makes sense, because if you’ve read Lord of the Rings, the Scouring of the Shire comes after the battle over the Rings, and is the story of the Hobbits coming home to realize Saruman after falling from his high place is now going by a different name and ruining the Shire; so the Hobbits have to fight to reclaim their home. But, I disagree with this interpretation. Taking this quote within the context of everything else GRRM has said, to me it is clear that he’s hinting at the villain after the villain; how you can defeat the supernatural “big bad”, and still be left with the everyday evils of people giving into their darker natures. “The human heart in conflict with itself” has forever been GRRM’s mindset, and having the Others as his villains frankly would be boring for him. 

And in GRRM’s version of his story, he has set this up very well. All the people who would be disappointed at this are missing a huge part of his narrative. The biggest argument for the Others being the final villain is that “the whole story is about people setting aside their petty squabbles to save humanity” - and wow, do I hate this take with a passion. It is so utterly dismissive of our protagonists, while also being dismissive of our antagonists/villains. I take issue with the idea that all the events in the South have been “petty squabbles”; sure, some of them have been petty, but GRRM is sure to highlight that some of these events are justified (while also highlighting how sad and awful they are). GRRM is a big believer in the idea that you can’t just sit and let evil run its course, that’s why he believes World War II was a justified war. So, for people to just dismiss that our protagonists have been fighting because their families were brutally murdered, just kills me. The North is fighting for independence because they don’t want to be at the mercy of someone who kills them for no reason, the Starks specifically are fighting for their own safety, Oberyn and the Martells are fighting because their sister/aunt was raped and murdered with her very young children. If you can read that, and come away with “wow I wish they would just get over it and team up with the people who abused/killed them” then you’ve missed the point. I hate the idea that a team up to kill the White Walkers is the morally correct ending. In fact, I think an existential threat to the whole world proves less about someone’s character; its much easier to care when you are threatened, but the drama down south gives us these moments where our characters are completely selfless in pursuit of doing the right thing (no chance and no choice). To claim the White Walkers matter more, is to minimize the suffering of people at the hands of other people. Is it morally better to defeat Climate Change if you ignore the Holocaust? 

Now that I’ve defended George Martin, its time to explain why I think people are unhappy with David and Dan’s interpretation. As I said above, GRRM is making a point about humans and how good they can be, how bad they can be, and how those decisions can change everything. But that’s not the story D&D have been telling. Their’s has literally just been a Game of Thrones; they strip the humanity of GRRM’s story in favor of RealPolitik, and its evident in the characters they choose to highlight and defend (Tywin, to give an example). Tyrion’s arc in A Clash of Kings includes politics, but GRRM is much more interested in explaining why he makes the decisions he does, digging deep into the roots of his trauma at the hands of Tywin and Cersei, how the ableist hatred of the smallfolk affects him, and why he is so susceptible to believing Shae loves him; now contrast that with season two of Game of Thrones, which is essentially “Tyrion is very clever and witty”. Sansa is another great example of this; D&D understand from GRRM that Sansa is a very good leader, and how they show this is her being very pro Northern Independence. Is there anything wrong about that? No. But compare that to the leader GRRM is writing Sansa as - “if I am ever Queen, I’ll make them love me”. Her kindness, compassion, understanding, and focus on those in poor conditions is what defines her. She is so sympathetic and empathetic to those struggling (seriously read what she puts up with from Sweet Robin while still loving and caring for him), and none of that was adapted to the show. D&D don’t care about the human side of politics. And that makes the politics down south seem kind of empty, when you compare it to the high stakes of defeating the Night King. So while I love the storytelling decision to kill of the White Walkers now, and drastically open up the narrative, I am a little bit sympathetic to all the criticisms people have. The show has operated under the facade of being meaningful for quite some time now, and people were expecting just a little more of a moral statement.