#gwenllian-in-the-abbey

[lemonhemlock]

choose violence #19 😈

gwen 💜

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like…

i do like daemon 😂 he IS chaotic and fun to read about on the page, so, as a character, the entertainment value is definitely there. irl i would probably want to strangle him, but when he enters a scene, you know shit is about to go down

i also love the acting choices matt smith makes for him AS AN 11TH DOCTOR GIRLIE I AM NOT IMMUNE

[ilikefelines]

And I quote:

'So what does it mean that Laenor and Corlys agree to pass Rhaenyra’s children off as trueborn? It means that their bastardy cannot be proven at the moment insofar as the legal father, Rhaenyra’s husband, is playing along and covering for Rhaenyra, and Viserys is backing them up by giving this his “legal” stamp of approval. But again, our view that it’s no one else’s business but Laenor and Rhaenyra’s and that Viserys “legalized” their status is very modern.

Jaehaeyrs and Alysanne were not considered married in the eyes of the Westerosi until they’d had a bedding ceremony, that is, the consummation of their marriage was witnessed. Royal marriages and the children that come from them are a public matter because the succession affects everyone in the realm. Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys can protect those children in the short term, but Laenor and Corlys and Viserys won’t live forever, and they could withdraw their support for those children and renounce them as bastards at any time.

Harwin could admit to fathering them, Rhaenyra and Harwin could get caught in the act, or someone else close to them might confess. Sure right now the black faction are all one big happy family, but 20 years down the line when bastard Jace takes the throne over trueborn Aegon III? There are multiple people in the family who could confess to knowledge of the bastardy, including Aegon III himself. The bastardy is too obvious and there are too many legitimate heirs of both house Targaryen and house Velaryon getting pushed aside in favor of bastard born children for it to be an issue that simply disappears because Rhaenyra and Laenor say so.

So “legal bastardy” is a pretty meaningless concept when it comes to royal succession because it’s not a matter that’s going to be settled by some neutral third party in a court of law. What matters in the long run is not whether or not Laenor claimed the kids, what matters is whether or not the situation is questionable enough that people with the power to challenge it might challenge it.'

There are a lot of Rhaenyra stans who act wilfully obtuse when it comes to this. There's no point applying our modern views to Westeros when nobody who matters in that world knows or cares.

There's this weird thing going on Reddit right now where people are claiming that legally, Rhaenyra children are not bastards. And I was wondering if you agree or disagree. I think that people are just making up their own canon lore at this point.

Hi anon,

I think what gets kind of muddled in this discussion is what "legally" means in the context. Generally speaking, children born within wedlock are considered legitimate until proven otherwise. Now in the medieval world, it's not like you were issued a birth certificate that you could whip out and say see, it says right here who the father is! There were no DNA tests, it was all a matter of word, and by and large a woman's virtue was her word, and it was what kept her and her children protected within the framework of medieval marriage. But the reason why bastardy matters in this context is also important. It's not like Rhaenyra is trying to collect child support here, nor is she a common merchant's wife whose husband has decided just to roll with it. She's the heir to the throne and the parentage of her children is a matter of inheritance and dynastic succession, so it's not a situation where a legal loophole is particularly helpful as a gotcha. There is not at this point in history a comprehensive codified law that clearly defines what these terms mean and defines the rights and obligations of parents and children legitimate and illegitimate, mostly you have combinations of precedent, tradition, oath, and a healthy dose of might makes right.

(I saw another reply to this question in which the responded basically goes, "free yourself from the shackles of this construct! Marriage isn't real it's an oppressive institution and the idea of bastardy is made up, so let it go," and while it's true that marriage, legitimacy, etc. are all social constructs and not absolute states of being, they started off as having a functional purpose within a certain social framework. And this is a basic problem a lot of people have with George's world, it's not that we have to have the views of a 12th century French peasant, or that everything has to be historically accurate, but George chose the medieval world as a setting for a reason, and it's not just an aesthetic one. Characters in even a quasi-historical setting have to act within the constraints of that setting. We have to understand that people don't know what they don't know. The medieval world doesn't have any framework for the introduction of feminist ideals. Westeros hasn't even had a Christine de Pizan yet. You couldn't walk up to a medieval peasant woman and say "marriage is a tool of patriarchal oppression and bastardy is a social construct," they'd look at you like you had two heads. And so we have to acknowledge that you can't simply start dismantling existing social structures if the framework doesn't exist to replace them with something better that offers more protections for a broader group of people, and at this point it definitely doesn't. Making an exception for one very privileged woman does not mean progress for all women, instead it often means destabilization of the flawed system that does exist, and even more violence against those less powerful in order to enforce the exceptional status).

So from a medieval point of view, marriage was pretty much a non-negotiable for a woman. And women weren't simply getting married because they were pressured into it by their families or because their fathers were opportunistic assholes, they got married because unmarried women had no legal status or standing. In most places they could not sign contracts or own land. A woman could join the church or get married (or become a prostitute, but it's not like sex workers had freedoms or protections either). Divorce wasn't a thing, and annulment was hard to get and usually available only as a tool for men to set aside their wives. So, for all intents and purposes, once you were married, that was generally it, you were stuck for life (the upside is that widows did get a lot more freedom, so marrying an older guy and waiting it out was not a bad option sometimes, all things considered). But what marriage did provide was assurance that you and your children would be protected and provided for. Marriage was a practical agreement, involving dowries, inheritances, and alliances sealed in blood. And this is one of the reasons why bastards could not inherit. Inheritance for once's children was one of the few perks of a marriage for a woman (this is, incidentally, why Alicent is so pressed about her children being effectively disinherited. There is NO reason for her, as an eligible maiden of good standing, to marry a man who will not provide for her sons, king or not). And of course, a man's bastards are obvious and are disqualified from inheriting (setting aside legitimization because it is not nearly the easy out that people think it is). You can't really pass them off as legitimate because your wife clearly knows which children she gave birth to, whereas a man might be told he is the father of a child when that child's father is in fact someone else.

In a dynastic marriage, all of this becomes even more important. Marriages were made as alliances and to strengthen the ties between kingdoms or houses. A child seals the marriage agreement by binding two bloodlines and creating kinship bonds that will last beyond the current generation. Those kinship bonds can ensure peace between kingdoms at war, trade agreements, and military aid. Passing a bastard off as trueborn breaks that agreement; it violates the very principle by which the agreement was made. And in this context, it doesn't actually matter if the father claims the children as his, because in a dynastic marriage inheritance is not just a personal matter, it's a matter of the state. The truth matters to a great many people, more than just the immediate family. A lie doesn't become the truth simply because the liar isn't caught, and there's no statute of limitations or court ruling that will ever put the matter to rest for good. Passing off a bastard as trueborn destabilizes the succession and breaks the dynastic bonds that the marriage was meant to establish. When the bastard heir in question attempts to take the throne, it won't be a smooth transition.

So what does it mean that Laenor and Corlys agree to pass Rhaenyra's children off as trueborn? It means that their bastardy cannot be proven at the moment insofar as the legal father, Rhaenyra's husband, is playing along and covering for Rhaenyra, and Viserys is backing them up by giving this his "legal" stamp of approval. But again, our view that it's no one else's business but Laenor and Rhaenyra's and that Viserys "legalized" their status is very modern. Jaehaeyrs and Alysanne were not considered married in the eyes of the Westerosi until they'd had a bedding ceremony, that is, the consummation of their marriage was witnessed. Royal marriages and the children that come from them are a public matter because the succession affects everyone in the realm. Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys can protect those children in the short term, but Laenor and Corlys and Viserys won't live forever, and they could withdraw their support for those children and renounce them as bastards at any time. Harwin could admit to fathering them, Rhaenyra and Harwin could get caught in the act, or someone else close to them might confess. Sure right now the black faction are all one big happy family, but 20 years down the line when bastard Jace takes the throne over trueborn Aegon III? There are multiple people in the family who could confess to knowledge of the bastardy, including Aegon III himself. The bastardy is too obvious and there are too many legitimate heirs of both house Targaryen and house Velaryon getting pushed aside in favor of bastard born children for it to be an issue that simply disappears because Rhaenyra and Laenor say so.

So "legal bastardy" is a pretty meaningless concept when it comes to royal succession because it's not a matter that's going to be settled by some neutral third party in a court of law. What matters in the long run is not whether or not Laenor claimed the kids, what matters is whether or not the situation is questionable enough that people with the power to challenge it might challenge it. And we see even within the actual narrative of the Dance that this is indeed the case. There is already a situation brewing with the other branches of the Velaryon family who are rightfully pretty pissed to see their ancestral seat pass to someone with no blood ties to the family (and as an aside, people will say Vaemond was self-serving, and of course he was, but that doesn't make him wrong, and maybe Baela or Rhaena should have inherited instead, but neither they nor their father were pressing their claims because they were backing up the bastard claimants, so was Vaemond supposed to do that for them?). And yes the king and Rhaenyra can cry treason and they can kill Vaemond and cut out tongues, but using force to silence people for telling the objective truth is by definition tyranny, and that's exactly the sort of situation that would get the nobility nervous. Because if Rhaenyra has to silence people already and she's not even queen yet, what will Jace have to do when he takes the throne? That's the real problem, not the "legal" status of Jace and his brothers, but the practical ramifications of hiding the truth.

[playlistashton]

The problem with hotd is that it seems they build the characters and THEN tried to fit them into the narrative when it should have been the other way. Which is why Alicent is so inconsistent and Rhaenyra is so contradictory and why they took away their actions and gave them to others which removed their agencies. I’ve seen a lot of people point to Rhaenicent as one of the problems derived from this but i don’t think it’s true, Rhaenicent could still fit into the story and the girls still could be consistent character, the two are not mutually exclusive (one day i will expand on that). It’s just the show don’t know how to handle it

[sialater18]

I find myself agreeing with this woman’s thoughts on Alicent’s character this season. Which is a shame in many ways…

(Tagging those who might be interested in what this video has to say, I apologize if any of y’all have been trying to get this off your mind only for me to tag you here lol)

@alicentsgf , @lemonhemlock , @thewitchqueenofharrenhal , @spacerockfloater , @gwenllian-in-the-abbey , @forgotten-fossilised , @florisbaratheons , @applepie2523 , @tessarionbestgirl , @queenvhagar , @the-daily-dreamer , @chocobroing , @lunamond , @gojuo, @fearthhereaper , @abla-soso

[reyraereads]

You know shout out to @aifsaath & @gwenllian-in-the-abbey for this genius line — “In the privacy of their chambers, Rhaenyra had never referred to Queen Alicent as anything but ‘the concubine.”

Because Team Black Stans talk about Alicent as though she’s a concubine or expect her to be one.

The way they say Aemma is ‘classier’ or ‘better’ for a woman that in canon was Queen for 3 years vs. Alicents’s 23 years. These people have internalized misogyny when talking about Targ women. Same to Targ men, Targ stans see Targ women as breeding machines for pure-Targaryen children. It’s actually so insidious.

Because what class and grace did Aemma have? She was married at 11, birthed Rhaenyra at 15, and dead at 23. Unlike, Alicent she wasn’t beloved by the smallfolk (no where in the text even says anything about Aemma’s queehood). Like, no shade on Aemma but we know nothing about her other than her suffering in her pregnancies. If Targ stans think all that suffering was worth the ‘pure’ Targaryen Rhaenyra; then they need help.

[winterfest-gift-exchange]

👆👆❄️❄️

Winterfest 4 - Here we go, Sign Ups for All!

Welcome back to everyone who's already taken part and welcome to Winterfest 2023 to any newcomers!

First of all, big thank you to everyone who reacted to or interacted with our last post gauging interest for another Realm of the Elderlings New Year's Gift Exchange. We're delighted to announce that we're here for at least another year and to welcome @gwenllian-in-the-abbey on board as a new Pecksie❄️

For anyone who doesn't know what this exchange is about yet, please check out our rules and FAQ for any questions you might have (the Tumblr versions can be found under the tag 'mod post'😉). We have updated them and added a section explaining fandom terms:D

The tl;dr is: this is a Secret Santa with RotE-themed fanworks (fics, art, other, all-inclusive). We're happy to have both longtime creators and new ones!

If you want to take part, you can sign up right HERE until November 5, 2023!

Here's a quick overview of the dates, all times are EDT:

Sign Ups are open NOW, starting October 15! That means you can register to participate by putting what you'd like to create and receive in a form that we'll link here.

Sign Ups will close on November 5 midnight, a Sunday, 3 weeks from now on.

You will receive your the nick of your gifter and their wishlist at the latest on November 11, the following Saturday. Please confirm that you've received it and are willing to participate by Sunday, November 12.

On December 3, we'll send out check in messages and we'll ask you to get back to us until December 9 to make sure that we can take action in time in case there are any drop outs.

Overall, you will have 7 weeks to prepare your gift so that it can be published before 31 December 2023 midnight - right on the night between Silvestre and the New Year!

On the next day, the midnight between January 1 and January 2, 2023, all gifters identities will be revealed - before that, they will all be anonymous.

We're very excited to do this with you again this year and hope it'll be fun for everyone!

If you have any questions, feel free to message us📨

Love,

Winter Pecksies

[aifsaath]

The Portrait of the Future King, a bigger version to be found here

Baela’s first thought, absurdly, was that the king looked much the same as he did now, even though that was only partially true. Young Aegon in the portrait was not thin, but he was a bit leaner than the king was now. His hair was shorter too, chin length rather than the shoulder length locks he now wore. And of course he was not scarred, not even a little bit. He stood straight, but not tall, nearly a head shorter than his brother, but taller than his sister. He wore a rich red tunic embroidered in gold thread at the collar and cuffs and belted at the waist. One hand rested upon his sister’s shoulder and the other rested upon the pommel of his sword. Curiously, there was a green glove on that hand. His sister was similarly clad in red, and the pair of them stood in the middle, a brother standing sentinel on either side. The one standing at Helaena's shoulder she recognized easily as Aemond One-Eye, and the other, standing beside Aegon, must have been Daeron, although Baela had never met him before. The boys wore deep green to their brother and sister’s red, and where Aegon wore golden rings set with red and green gems upon his fingers, and a jeweled chain draped across his chest, his brothers were dressed less ostentatiously. It was, Baela realized, a portrait of a future king and queen. - Our Fathers Clad in Red, Chapter 6 (by me & @gwenllian-in-the-abbey)

Alas, yes, the long awaited portrait / political propaganda is here!

Because there is no way the greens wouldn't use the most obvious religiou symbols and bloodline claims of kingship too.

@lemonhemlock @gwenndigo @branwendaughterofllyr @duxbelisarius @prodogg @theothermaidoftarth @alexandria-millie @maryonaccross @evabluepark888 @darylandbethfanforever9 @ara-meyy @calyssmarviss @tremendousandsonorouswords

[florisbaratheons]

The Wrath of the Queen (1/?)

"You would become the wretchedest of women."

"Then let it be," said Alicent Hightower.

--

Alicent knows duty, she learned it standing at her father’s knee before she even had a full understanding of what it meant. So every choice after was made for her. She'd marry the king, she'd have his sons, she'd support his chosen heir. She'd suffer the cost for the good of the realm.

But on a dark and stormy night on the shores of Driftmark, when her son's eye is stolen from him and his attackers face no consequences, Alicent finally makes her own choice.

Fuck duty. She wants revenge. And the Blacks are going to pay.

A Rewrite of the Dance of Dragons.

AO3 Chapter One

Taglist @gwenllian-in-the-abbey @branwendaughterofllyr @mairoon

@peters-lab-partner @emilykaldwen @dcookechild @survivinglifesstruggles @ragnyra @alicentcole @userhelaena @ladystarksneedle @starrysepts @asoiastarks @tell-them-the-north-remembers @alihightowers @fairysluna @pookiebearsnookumsalicent @ai-megurine

If anyone else wants to be added, please let me know.

[vhagar-balerion-meraxes]

Send this to all your favourite moots and pass the pumpkin round! KEEP THE PUMPKIN TRAIN GOING 🎃🖤🎃🖤🎃

My wifi is crap at the moment and it’s difficult for me to open people’s blogs without tumblr crashing, soooo I’m just going to do one big post to send this to all my moots. Have a pumpkin! 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃

@thought--bubble @dr-aegon @vipervixxen @heretherebebookdragons @peachessndreamss

@pendragora @anjelicawrites @snowblack-charcoalwhite @very-straight-blog @st-eve-barnes

@livmondcole @aemondstark @lady-phasma @barbieaemond @zaldritzosrose

@a-fall-of-stars @thesunfyre4446 @peachysunrize @arcielee @visenyasdragon

@alicent-archive @kingaegond @aegon-the-elder @sylasthegrim @babyblue711

@flowerandblood @lovelykhaleesiii @wolfdressedinlace @aemonds-holy-milk @targaryen-dynasty

@witheredoffherwitch @gwenllian-in-the-abbey @aemondsbabygirl @the-dendrophile-bookdragon @worms-on-multiple-strings

@just-some-random-blogger @all-that-glitters-is-goldfish @sapphire-writes @please-buckme @exitpursuedbyavulcan

@adragonprinceswhore @aemondsbabe @inthedayswhenlandswerefew @superprincesspea @playlistashton

@jamesfrain @ara-meyy @schniiipsel @lemonhemlock @troublesomesnitch

@gemini-mama @targaryenrealnessdarling @venmondiese @lynnlove501 @joekeerys

@mermaidslabyrinth @theoneeyedprince @cyeco13 @franzkafkagf @elizarbell

[franzkafkagf]

any thoughts on aegon‘s alcoholism and substance abuse? I love your the analyses you do btw!

Thank you and what a great prompt! anon, your mind!!

You know, when I think of Aegon, I think of his faults. And his most obvious fault is his overindulgence; in sex, in alcohol, in meaningless "fun". But if you watch the show you realize that something else lies behind that overindulgence, it's avoidance.

swear to god – blackbear

Because that's what it is in the end, he's always running. Running from responsibility, running from his reality; he doesn't want to face any of it, he can't bear it. He can't bear the thought of his failure, of the inadequacy he feels. He is weak, he knows that, he decided to not fight against it. Instead he numbs himself and seeks out any and every distraction.

be drunk – charles baudelaire

There is a comment to be made on how westerosi culture is irrevocably connected to alcohol- there is no feast, no council meeting, no hunting party, without wine. Each region boasts its very own brand of alcohol; they take great pride in it. It's woven into every facet of society. I'm reminded of episode 7. Aegon is no older than 16 and getting black-out drunk at a funeral, and no one finds this strange.

It seems to be acceptable, even normal to some degree, to be an alcoholic in their society. I think that's why he could never let it go, even when he had finally accepted his responsibilities and faced them head on. He had enough will to reject milk of the poppy, something his father couldn't.

say it ain't so – weezer

But not with wine, I believe he found comfort in it, sought the warm feeling in his throat when he drank. Alcohol is everywhere and he was constantly tempted by it, he couldn't let that go. It literally haunted him to the end; he died from poisoned wine.

bug like an angel – mitski

I wanna end this with reccommending two great fics tackling his alcoholism. All Kings Are Beautiful by @gwenllian-in-the-abbey and Woke up this Morning and found myself Dead

[lemonhemlock]

thank you @gwenllian-in-the-abbey for the tags! i've also been looking for words and you put it best: "grrm actively engages with history and invites the reader to do the same".

people are certainly free to enjoy asoiaf the way they want, but i would be lying if i said i wasn't a little tired of this attitude that sometimes permeates parts of the fandom: that it being fiction means that authenticity can't ever be pursued (even to some imperfect degree) and that those who attempt to mount a historical comparison are either misguided or Not Consuming Media Properly.

when grrm's asoiaf is in active conversation with history.

look. not to be too mean on main. the rightful heir thing. if you don't care about the intricacies of property law or legal writs and just want to focus on characterization and other aspects of storytelling, fine.

but it truly does look very goofy when you start "debating" this while lacking historical context and methodological tools. sometimes a constitutional crisis (that was already resolved in the 12th century and whose results you can always look up) can't just be settled by appealing to one's anachronistic opinion and accusing those who disagree of misogyny.

there's a difference between suggesting how things should be (i.e. prescriptive, i.e. women should never inherit the throne) and analysing how things were for a myriad of socio-political reasons.

also, trust me, the Dance being fictional is not the gotcha people think it is. it's plenty obvious. i'm sorry to say but the premise is so flimsy it would never have happened like that irl.

final idea: likewise, perhaps being condescending about people who do take the time to criticise the premise is veering a little bit towards anti-intellectualism. 'idc about succession laws ergo i'm more enlightened bc i've unlocked an edgelord-y way to enjoy fiction'. a medievalesque fantasy setting is going to attract commentators who are interested in medieval history or at least aspects of it. they may find copy-paste scenarios from real history and think it interesting to compare and contrast. it's not immediately equivalent to treating aegon and rhaenyra like your ballot choices next election, and, equally, they're not discussions without merit.

comparative analysis is a transferable skill! if someone doesn't want to partake, fine, but i think this attitude of turning one's nose at it is a tad coarse. there are many fans who take the time to write informative posts and contextualise this fictionalised universe and it's a shame to automatically write-off what is ultimately a rich tradition in internet asoiaf spaces

[very-straight-blog]

do you think rhaenyra loved helaena in the books? I just started f&b, but I saw tb stans saying she loved her and didn't consider helaena only half-sister.

Personally, I don't think Rhaenyra had any particularly warm feelings for Helaena. The rhetoric of TB is based on the fact that Rhaenyra called her "my sweet sister," but here a smart person @gwenllian-in-the-abbey explained why it doesn't really mean anything. So no, I don't think Rhaenyra loved her.

[cryptidlark]

make a poll with five of your all time favourite characters and then tag five people to do the same. see which character is everyone's favourite!

Tagged by @mircallaruthven ^_^ thank you

Tagging @semicolonsandsimiles @tragediegh @unmitigated-garbage-fire @spectrum-color @gwenllian-in-the-abbey

[yevrosima-the-third]

tagged by @unmitigated-garbage-fire to make a poll of my favuorite fictional women, which I'll gladly do

Tagging: @parlerenfleurs @mayfriend @metacarpus @gwenllian-in-the-abbey and whoever else wants to do it, feel free to say I tagged you

[lemonhemlock]

Very interesting breakdown!

Personally I don't think Alicent was a saint, but the comments saying she was a normal noblewoman instead of an evil stepmother are spot on.

My view is that Alicent probably did make an effort with Rhaenyra at the beginning because there was no point in creating animosity. BUT. She did most likely come into the marriage with the (reasonable) expectation that her sons would be above Rhaenyra in the line of succession. And when that didn't happen & Viserys refused to budge, that created an unfriendly atmosphere and Alicent's side of the family started feeling swindled.

As Gwenllian points out, had Viserys made the terms clear from the very beginning, that no children born by his second wife would ever replace Rhaenyra as named heir, it's possible that Otto would not have proceeded with the marriage. This changes a lot of things, because basically the Hightowers' view becomes that Viserys is not respecting his marriage contract and is refusing to enact clauses they feel entitled to, based on law and precedent. Whereas Viserys kept quiet as a mouse and the Hightowers were ultimately faced with a fait accompli.

Something like this is always going to cause resentment and I think at this point Alicent would reasonably start to look at Rhaenyra as a potential danger to her own children, instead of an orphaned girl she nominally has under her care. So, this, to me, marks the point when Alicent would naturally develop an animosity towards the underage Rhaenyra and would probably start being colder / bitchier / spiteful (however you want to call it).

But even so, regardless of her personal feelings of disappointment or outrage or dislike towards her stepdaughter, her proposal of marrying Aegon to Rhaenyra was a way to settle this dispute diplomatically and make the best out of a bad situation. There's a 10-year difference between Aegon and Rhaenyra, less than in the show, not ideal by any means, but not impossible for them to maintain an amiable relationship and even produce children of their own in due time. In any case, it's a preferable scenario to fighting a civil war and getting each other killed in the process, alongside much of the population.

Do you think that book!Alicent was a one dimensional evil stepmother and the show has fixed her by making her a sad victim of the men around her? I don't agree with this take but i see so many people argue in favour of stripping her of her agency in the show in that book!Alicent was nothing but a misogynistic caricature made by the sexist maesters.

Thanks for this question anon! I had actually been meaning to write something about the "evil stepmother" accusations that get thrown at book!Alicent because having recently re-read F&B, I just don't see it.

First of all, and I think most notably, Alicent's relationship with Rhaenyra doesn't really deteriorate completely until Daemon returns to court. Before that, we don't really have much information about the first few years of Viserys' marriage. The fandom likes to claim that Alicent was beefing with a 9 year old but that isn't really backed up with much evidence. After the account that nine year old Rhaenyra poured for her new stepmother at Alicent and Viserys' wedding (and on a seriously wtf note, helped undress her father for the bedding, but that's another topic), the next words we have about Alicent and Rhaenyra are when Alicent quips, about Rhaenyra's relationship with Criston Cole, "Ser Criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from Ser Criston?" And y'all? This is not beefing or bullying. Alicent is pointing out that Rhaenyra, now about 13-ish, is in a vulnerable position as an unmarried young woman. Is she also possibly picking up on some weird predatory vibes with Criston? Perhaps (which is also also interesting, considering Criston later defects to Alicent's camp)! Remember, book!Criston is only a year younger than Daemon, so anything between them would not only be completely off limits because Criston is a kingsguard, but also extremely inappropriate just based on their ages alone. Regardless, Rhaenyra is at this point surrounded by a lot of men ("many lords and knights sought her favor") and Alicent alone seems cognizant of the danger this poses.

After this, the relationship between Alicent and Rhaenyra evidently deteriorates, but we're not told precisely how, only that the "amity between Her Grace and her stepdaughter had proved short lived, for both Rhaenyra and Alicent aspired to be the first lady of the realm..." Keep in mind, this is Gyldayn editorializing without a source, and as for being "first lady of the realm," it's just as likely that Rhaenyra was jealous of her stepmother's position as queen as it was that Alicent had any particular animosity towards Rhaenyra. In any case, the book does not suggest that either of them are at fault for the breakdown.

This is also around the time that Otto gets sent home for bugging Viserys about the succession, so that probably had something to do with it, although this still does not amount to Alicent beefing with a child, as it's doubtful she brought up the situation to Rhaenyra herself, but rather she and Otto brought the issue to Viserys. And although I don't really want to get into the succession weeds here, I do want to make it clear that the expectation that Viserys would make his firstborn son his heir was an entirely reasonable one. Everywhere except for Dorne, sons inherit before daughters, and if Viserys had made it clear before he married Alicent that he had no intention of replacing Rhaenyra as heir, Otto might not have married Alicent to Viserys in the first place. There are multiple examples of men with daughters but no sons remarrying in order to get a male heir. It's the only reason Corlys offered Laena as a bride to Viserys (and, arguably, Corlys would have had the leverage to force the issue, which is perhaps one reason why he did not choose Laena). And it wasn't just Otto and Alicent-- people asked "what of the ruling of the Great Council in 101?" But Viserys basically told naysayers to shut up and stop asking. Okay.

Then we have the dress incident, and at this point Rhaenyra is 14, Daemon is back in town, and there's a tourney on. Alicent wears a green dress, Rhaenyra wears a black and red one. It's interesting that in this chapter, no additional context is given to this event. Much earlier in F&B, we do learn that the High Tower is lit green to call its banners against Maegor the Cruel. The show makes this association clear, but Gyldayn does not say that Alicent did this as a declaration of war on Rhaenyra, only that "the queen wore a green gown, whilst the princess dressed dramatically in Targaryen red and black." If you've read F&B, you know that Gyldayn loves editorializing, so the fact that the association made by the show is completely omitted here suggest that Gyldayn lacked this context, or people at the time of the event simply thought it was a green dress with no additional meaning, or perhaps he expected in-world readers to draw their own conclusions (although it's kind of unlike Gyldayn to resist showing off his knowledge when he can). Regardless, after that, the people gave them the nickname the blacks and the greens, and it stuck.

Anyway, it's clear Alicent and Rhaenyra aren't getting along at this point, and they probably resent each other, but there is no mention of Alicent actually doing anything whatsoever to harm Rhaenyra, much less "bullying a child who has just lost her mother" or "beefing with a nine year old." This seems to be a complete invention. Given that book!Rhaenyra is a spoiled only child, by this point a teenager, accustomed to having her father's undivided attention, and now he has a new wife and at this point three new children in his life, it's equally likely that Rhaenyra was feeling displaced and acting out. However, instead of giving her any helpful guidance or correcting her, the trusted adults in her life reinforce her negative feelings, and as we'll see, even use those insecurities to manipulate her. As for Alicent "poisoning her children against Rhaenyra," there's simply zero evidence to back this up. In fact, what eventually happens would seem to suggest that Alicent was at least somewhat concerned about the hostility between her children and Rhaenyra. And here is when things really break down, because this is where Daemon really starts to stir the pot.

Before the tourney, Daemon had been fighting in the stepstones. He returns to King's Landing a hero, and immediately latches onto Rhaenyra. As for Alicent, "although he treated her with all the courtesy due her station, there was no warmth between them, and men said that the prince was notably cool towards her children, especially his nephews, Aegon and Aemond, whose birth had pushed him still lower in the order of succession." So who is, in fact beefing with children? Daemon Targaryen. At the same time, Daemon starts cozying up to Rhaenyra, giving her extravagant gifts, telling her stories, and doing the one thing that is absolutely sure to win over a teenager, being a hater. Daemon hones in on Rhaenyra's issues with Alicent and together they have a great deal of fun openly mocking Alicent and her children, and what Daemon called the "lickspittles" who were in Alicent's camp. This works very well on Rhaenyra because of course it does! Daemon is the cool dragonriding uncle, the handsome Rogue Prince, and Rhaenyra is eating up the attention. She and Daemon have dragonraces and he tells her she's much prettier than Alicent and strokes that teenage ego. It's also at this point that the rumors about Daemon and Rhaenyra having a sexual relationship begin, and Daemon supposedly asks for Rhaenyra's hand in marriage because "who else would take her now?" Keep in mind, she's fourteen. And whether it's true or not, Viserys exiles Daemon again. He goes back to the Stepstones, and things settle down in King's Landing.

Of course the relationship between between Rhaenyra and her stepmother is bad by this point. Her and Daemon have just spent six months mocking her and her children and their supporters. Aegon is only about four or five years old, so the beef has got to be pretty one sided, although even little kids can tell when they're being given the cold shoulder or laughed at. Rhaenyra even makes a point of always referring to them as her half-brothers, rather than simply as her brothers. Still, a few years pass, Rhaenyra is now sixteen, and it's time for her to get married. Alicent proposes she marry Aegon, and one of the reasons she gives is that they don't get along well. "All the more reason to bind them together in marriage," Alicent says, acknowledging that Rhaenyra hating her now six year old younger brother is in fact a big fucking problem. If Alicent hoped for Rhaenyra and Aegon to marry, why on earth would she poison her children against Rhaenyra? But Viserys shoots this idea down, saying "the boy is Alicent's own blood. She wants him on the throne." And yes, of course she does, but she probably also wants him to stay alive.

So, Rhaenyra marries Laenor, and after that there's really no point in trying to maintain any sort of stepmother relationship, is there? Rhaenyra is now an adult, she's married, and she's made her feelings about Alicent and her siblings very clear. At this point, Alicent has to look out for the safety of her children, who are going to be Rhaenyra's biggest rivals. And if they dislike their older half-sister, who can blame them? Again, this is a girl who spent the better half of six months laughing at them. Rhaenyra did nothing but sabotage that relationship. And if Alicent decides she's going to fight for Aegon's inheritance, she's only doing what any mother in her position would do. There's no evidence she does it for power or greed, she simply does it because she doesn't owe Rhaenyra anything and letting someone who is actively hostile to her children take the throne unchallenged, especially when that person's claim is untraditional to say the least, and seen by many as being weaker than that of her sons, would be taking a huge risk with their lives. There's nothing "evil" in Alicent's actions. Book!Alicent did not bully Rhaenyra, did not "beef with a nine year old," or "poison her children against Rhaenyra," in fact, she did what she could to bind them together, but Rhaenyra, (at least in part taking her cues from Viserys and Daemon), was simply not interested. And you know, that's fine too, Rhaenyra doesn't have to love her stepmother or care about her half-brothers. They're much younger and it's natural that she wouldn't be much interested in them. But as heir to the throne? It sure would have been a much smarter idea to cultivate those relationships.

Book!Alicent isn't an "evil stepmother" though either, after a certain point she she simply prioritizes her own children over someone who has made it abundantly clear she has no use for any of them.

[winterfest-gift-exchange-v2]

Sign up dates and more!

Hello everyone, and thanks for your patience! We have had some changes with the Winterfest Gift Exchange due to the retirement of the core team of peksies at @winterfest-gift-exchange. They ran a great event that is responsible, at last count, for close to 20% of the fanworks posted on AO3 over the years, which is an incredible accomplishment. @whatevsbla and @alloysius-g have earned their peksie pensions so please congratulate them on their many years of dedicated service.

Myself, @gwenllian-in-the-abbey (you might recall I joined the previous team last year!) and @wolveshavenokings are re-launching Winterfest, and with new management comes a new blog! You might know the two of us from the Robin Hobb discord server, where @wolveshavenokings is the owner and I am one of the admins. In addition, we have @divine529 , @halcyonhowl and @dandelions-and-white-wolves on the Winterfest team! Although it is not required at the moment, we encourage you to join the discord server if you are interested in participating, as we will use it as a major tool for communication and coordination.

Due to the changes, our dates have been pushed back slightly this year. What follows is the revised timeline for the 2024 gift exchange (yeah, we're still calling it the 2024 gift exchange even though the gifts will be revealed when it is technically 2025).

Important Dates for 2024-25:

Sign ups: November 15th-December 1st

Sign ups close: December 1st at midnight EST

Matches sent with details of your giftee's request: December 15th

Check-in (your chance to tell us if you think you won't be able to finish: January 1st

Completion deadline: January 31st Gifter reveals: February 1st

Stay tuned to this blog for more details, tips, and FAQs