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ilikefelines · 8 months ago

Note

And I quote:

'So what does it mean that Laenor and Corlys agree to pass Rhaenyra’s children off as trueborn? It means that their bastardy cannot be proven at the moment insofar as the legal father, Rhaenyra’s husband, is playing along and covering for Rhaenyra, and Viserys is backing them up by giving this his “legal” stamp of approval. But again, our view that it’s no one else’s business but Laenor and Rhaenyra’s and that Viserys “legalized” their status is very modern.

Jaehaeyrs and Alysanne were not considered married in the eyes of the Westerosi until they’d had a bedding ceremony, that is, the consummation of their marriage was witnessed. Royal marriages and the children that come from them are a public matter because the succession affects everyone in the realm. Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys can protect those children in the short term, but Laenor and Corlys and Viserys won’t live forever, and they could withdraw their support for those children and renounce them as bastards at any time.

Harwin could admit to fathering them, Rhaenyra and Harwin could get caught in the act, or someone else close to them might confess. Sure right now the black faction are all one big happy family, but 20 years down the line when bastard Jace takes the throne over trueborn Aegon III? There are multiple people in the family who could confess to knowledge of the bastardy, including Aegon III himself. The bastardy is too obvious and there are too many legitimate heirs of both house Targaryen and house Velaryon getting pushed aside in favor of bastard born children for it to be an issue that simply disappears because Rhaenyra and Laenor say so.

So “legal bastardy” is a pretty meaningless concept when it comes to royal succession because it’s not a matter that’s going to be settled by some neutral third party in a court of law. What matters in the long run is not whether or not Laenor claimed the kids, what matters is whether or not the situation is questionable enough that people with the power to challenge it might challenge it.'

There are a lot of Rhaenyra stans who act wilfully obtuse when it comes to this. There's no point applying our modern views to Westeros when nobody who matters in that world knows or cares.

There's this weird thing going on Reddit right now where people are claiming that legally, Rhaenyra children are not bastards. And I was wondering if you agree or disagree. I think that people are just making up their own canon lore at this point.

Hi anon,

I think what gets kind of muddled in this discussion is what "legally" means in the context. Generally speaking, children born within wedlock are considered legitimate until proven otherwise. Now in the medieval world, it's not like you were issued a birth certificate that you could whip out and say see, it says right here who the father is! There were no DNA tests, it was all a matter of word, and by and large a woman's virtue was her word, and it was what kept her and her children protected within the framework of medieval marriage. But the reason why bastardy matters in this context is also important. It's not like Rhaenyra is trying to collect child support here, nor is she a common merchant's wife whose husband has decided just to roll with it. She's the heir to the throne and the parentage of her children is a matter of inheritance and dynastic succession, so it's not a situation where a legal loophole is particularly helpful as a gotcha. There is not at this point in history a comprehensive codified law that clearly defines what these terms mean and defines the rights and obligations of parents and children legitimate and illegitimate, mostly you have combinations of precedent, tradition, oath, and a healthy dose of might makes right.

(I saw another reply to this question in which the responded basically goes, "free yourself from the shackles of this construct! Marriage isn't real it's an oppressive institution and the idea of bastardy is made up, so let it go," and while it's true that marriage, legitimacy, etc. are all social constructs and not absolute states of being, they started off as having a functional purpose within a certain social framework. And this is a basic problem a lot of people have with George's world, it's not that we have to have the views of a 12th century French peasant, or that everything has to be historically accurate, but George chose the medieval world as a setting for a reason, and it's not just an aesthetic one. Characters in even a quasi-historical setting have to act within the constraints of that setting. We have to understand that people don't know what they don't know. The medieval world doesn't have any framework for the introduction of feminist ideals. Westeros hasn't even had a Christine de Pizan yet. You couldn't walk up to a medieval peasant woman and say "marriage is a tool of patriarchal oppression and bastardy is a social construct," they'd look at you like you had two heads. And so we have to acknowledge that you can't simply start dismantling existing social structures if the framework doesn't exist to replace them with something better that offers more protections for a broader group of people, and at this point it definitely doesn't. Making an exception for one very privileged woman does not mean progress for all women, instead it often means destabilization of the flawed system that does exist, and even more violence against those less powerful in order to enforce the exceptional status).

So from a medieval point of view, marriage was pretty much a non-negotiable for a woman. And women weren't simply getting married because they were pressured into it by their families or because their fathers were opportunistic assholes, they got married because unmarried women had no legal status or standing. In most places they could not sign contracts or own land. A woman could join the church or get married (or become a prostitute, but it's not like sex workers had freedoms or protections either). Divorce wasn't a thing, and annulment was hard to get and usually available only as a tool for men to set aside their wives. So, for all intents and purposes, once you were married, that was generally it, you were stuck for life (the upside is that widows did get a lot more freedom, so marrying an older guy and waiting it out was not a bad option sometimes, all things considered). But what marriage did provide was assurance that you and your children would be protected and provided for. Marriage was a practical agreement, involving dowries, inheritances, and alliances sealed in blood. And this is one of the reasons why bastards could not inherit. Inheritance for once's children was one of the few perks of a marriage for a woman (this is, incidentally, why Alicent is so pressed about her children being effectively disinherited. There is NO reason for her, as an eligible maiden of good standing, to marry a man who will not provide for her sons, king or not). And of course, a man's bastards are obvious and are disqualified from inheriting (setting aside legitimization because it is not nearly the easy out that people think it is). You can't really pass them off as legitimate because your wife clearly knows which children she gave birth to, whereas a man might be told he is the father of a child when that child's father is in fact someone else.

In a dynastic marriage, all of this becomes even more important. Marriages were made as alliances and to strengthen the ties between kingdoms or houses. A child seals the marriage agreement by binding two bloodlines and creating kinship bonds that will last beyond the current generation. Those kinship bonds can ensure peace between kingdoms at war, trade agreements, and military aid. Passing a bastard off as trueborn breaks that agreement; it violates the very principle by which the agreement was made. And in this context, it doesn't actually matter if the father claims the children as his, because in a dynastic marriage inheritance is not just a personal matter, it's a matter of the state. The truth matters to a great many people, more than just the immediate family. A lie doesn't become the truth simply because the liar isn't caught, and there's no statute of limitations or court ruling that will ever put the matter to rest for good. Passing off a bastard as trueborn destabilizes the succession and breaks the dynastic bonds that the marriage was meant to establish. When the bastard heir in question attempts to take the throne, it won't be a smooth transition.

So what does it mean that Laenor and Corlys agree to pass Rhaenyra's children off as trueborn? It means that their bastardy cannot be proven at the moment insofar as the legal father, Rhaenyra's husband, is playing along and covering for Rhaenyra, and Viserys is backing them up by giving this his "legal" stamp of approval. But again, our view that it's no one else's business but Laenor and Rhaenyra's and that Viserys "legalized" their status is very modern. Jaehaeyrs and Alysanne were not considered married in the eyes of the Westerosi until they'd had a bedding ceremony, that is, the consummation of their marriage was witnessed. Royal marriages and the children that come from them are a public matter because the succession affects everyone in the realm. Laenor, Corlys, and Viserys can protect those children in the short term, but Laenor and Corlys and Viserys won't live forever, and they could withdraw their support for those children and renounce them as bastards at any time. Harwin could admit to fathering them, Rhaenyra and Harwin could get caught in the act, or someone else close to them might confess. Sure right now the black faction are all one big happy family, but 20 years down the line when bastard Jace takes the throne over trueborn Aegon III? There are multiple people in the family who could confess to knowledge of the bastardy, including Aegon III himself. The bastardy is too obvious and there are too many legitimate heirs of both house Targaryen and house Velaryon getting pushed aside in favor of bastard born children for it to be an issue that simply disappears because Rhaenyra and Laenor say so.

So "legal bastardy" is a pretty meaningless concept when it comes to royal succession because it's not a matter that's going to be settled by some neutral third party in a court of law. What matters in the long run is not whether or not Laenor claimed the kids, what matters is whether or not the situation is questionable enough that people with the power to challenge it might challenge it. And we see even within the actual narrative of the Dance that this is indeed the case. There is already a situation brewing with the other branches of the Velaryon family who are rightfully pretty pissed to see their ancestral seat pass to someone with no blood ties to the family (and as an aside, people will say Vaemond was self-serving, and of course he was, but that doesn't make him wrong, and maybe Baela or Rhaena should have inherited instead, but neither they nor their father were pressing their claims because they were backing up the bastard claimants, so was Vaemond supposed to do that for them?). And yes the king and Rhaenyra can cry treason and they can kill Vaemond and cut out tongues, but using force to silence people for telling the objective truth is by definition tyranny, and that's exactly the sort of situation that would get the nobility nervous. Because if Rhaenyra has to silence people already and she's not even queen yet, what will Jace have to do when he takes the throne? That's the real problem, not the "legal" status of Jace and his brothers, but the practical ramifications of hiding the truth.

#anti rhaenyra stans #anti rhaenyra targaryen #i would just like to add to the 'marriage is a social construct' crowd':#yes messrs berger & luckmann we know #that doesn't mean that marriage is/was not also a legal regime that imparted to the spouses both rights and obligations #chief among which concerned property!#'bastardy is not real'> it was very much real in the sense that they did not have access to the marital estate /by law/#how are they supposed to 'free' themselves from that 'shackle'?#we/they live in a society #gwenllian-in-the-abbey #bastardposting #another reason jace would not have been safe: the lords he would have reigned over would be directly interested #in ensuring their sons-in-law could not place their own bastards above their daughters' true-born children in the line of succession #or that their own legitimate children could not be displaced by the bastards they sired with their not-wives #bc that would also get them into trouble with their wives' families!#just the potential for a lot of succession headaches all-around #OR perhaps those lords had bastard half-siblings too. what then.#that were very much not imaginary and did very much have tangible consequences #team green #team black #westeros #asoiaf meta #fire and blood meta

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ladystoneboobs · 6 months ago

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idt we talk enough about how a song of ice and fire is also the song of incest and cannibalism. i mean, sure, obviously both of those subjects are noted as present, but the saga feels much more known for its incest, which idt is fair or accurate to the later materiel. iirc, jaime fucking cersei next to their dead firstborn is the last instance of onpage incest happening in present tl, and after that it's all about the cannibals, baby.

(disclaimer: cw/tw sa, cw/tw rape, and i'm not counting cousincest as that's normal in-world even for non-targaryens and also still legal in many places in our world today, nor counting the faux-incestuous freudian mess that is littlefinger/alayne(sansa)/sweetrobin, nor any dark humor jokes and/or unfulfilled threats wrt forced cannibalism)

in fact pretty much all the active incest during the present tl happens in those first 3 books:

the twincest as a major plot point ofc, kicking action off when bran saw them fucking in a tower

and viserys creeping on dany and twisting her nipple

tyrion relating his backstory to bronn wherein he and tysha were both raped by proxy by his father, tywin (tho tyrion does not use that terminology)

craster still being alive to rape and impregnate his own daughters (resulting in dozens of forced incestuous relationships)

and theon unknowingly groping his own sister while she (knowingly) groped him in return

jaime's early pov recalled how he shut up cersei with kissing when they fought after bran refused to die

bella of stoney sept trying and failing to seduce gendry who is (unbeknownst to them both) her half-brother as both were sired by robert baratheon (only example in these 3 books where incest was averted before any sexual activity or incestuous contact occurred)

the aforementioned sept twincest next to joffrey's corpse

tyrion learning from oberyn about cersei twisting his penis when he was a baby

cersei's failed attempt to seduce jaime in wst, pulling out his dick for either a bj or hj until her talk of tyrion's death made him lose his boner

while incest is not exactly absent from the text after that, it seems to exist in the feastdance only in hypotheticals or past memories:

aeron's trauma flashbacks of his (implied only in published text) csa by euron

jaime still feeling lust when seeing cersei nude

and her fond reminiscing about them fucking behind robert's back/brief dream of them as a married couple before her walk of shame

victarion misinterpreting asha's offer of partnership as a marriage proposal and suddenly looking at his niece in a new way with "his manhood beginning to stiffen"

jaime's recollection of fucking cersei at darry next to robert as he was passed out drunk before cersei sent him to hunt arya (which would have happened back in agot and the point of this scene is more his failed hunt for a child just to make cersei happy)

arianne's "uneasy" memory of a past fantasy about being seduced by a man whose description is suspiciously similar to her late uncle oberyn

the aborted marital match of aegon/young griff to his purported aunt dany

illyrio saying (the now dead) viserys tried to rape dany the night before her wedding to drogo (another event from agot concerning a guy we already knew was into incest)

and tyrion once saying he wanted to rape as well as murder cersei

conversely, the cannibalism in the earlier books is most often only unproven hypotheticals alluded to as possible cannibalism:

old nan saying the others fed their dead servants the flesh of human children (which we have not yet seen with any wights so far, whether or not one counts walking undead eating human flesh as straight-up cannibalism)

the mystery meat in flea bottom's bowls o' brown which may or may not contain symon silver tongue after tyrion had him killed

renly's recollection that cressen kept stannis from catapulting their old master-at-arms by saying they may need to eat him later (which did not come to pass thanks to davos)

joffrey telling his people to eat their own dead (with no way of knowing if any actually did)

lady hornwood eating her own fingers

the mentions of the ice river clans being the cannibals beyond the wall (who are def not among the free folk jon snow gets to know onpage, making it just background detail)

bran's (possibly mythical) story of the rat cook

and biter chewing on people he attacked and other corpses (which seems to be just a side hobby connected to his killing method moreso constituting a snack than a full meal from a person butchered for meat. this tendancy of his is just background detail in acok, with biter chewing a corpse in the background after the weasel soup operation, and the hindsight implication that it could well have been him rather than dogs or wolves who had "been at" the corpses after the skirmish where yoren was killed)

while the feastdance feels much more in your face with cannibalism, having not only more total mentions of the practice but also more confirmed, actual cannibalism (as opposed to the ambiguity of each and every bowl o' brown), for those who know how to look at the evidence:

jaime learned that his father's mad dog aka the mountain fed parts of vargo hoat to all his prisoners (including vargo himself) after recapturing harrenhal

jaime then recalled tales of danelle lothston presiding over feasts of human flesh in harrenhal

and euron bragged about pulling a similar trick with the warlocks he captured (the only twist being that the warlocks knew what they were being forced to eat, which vargo hoat and wylis manderly etc at harrenhal likely didn't)

the elder brother of the quiet isle told of biter eating all of a woman's breasts at saltpans after she'd been raped and killed (prob the largest amount of flesh biter's confirmed to have eaten from one corpse)

bran and co. ate "pig" supplied by coldhands which had to be long pig aka human meat

brienne felt her face being eaten by biter in her own pov (which is so much worse than him chewing others in the background of the weasel soup scene)

theon was told that two ironmen at moat cailin were found eating their dead comrades

the astapori were said to eat their own dead while under siege by the yunkishmen

and then were said to do so again in refugee camps outside meereen

sam and davos sailed past skagos and each remembered stories of skagosi cannibalism

khrazz the pit fighter cut the hearts from his defeated foes to eat them

cotter pyke's last letter to jon snow said the wildlings were eating their own dead at hardhome

4 of stannis's men were executed by burning for butchering and eating dead men (with asha wondering how many others had done so without being caught)

and ofc the frey pies with wyman manderly having his 3 former guests killed and serving their meat to their own kin and the other guests at ramsay's wedding while eating some himself too

two of these examples (involving gregor clegane and euron greyjoy) must have actually happened during the course of asos, but grrm chose to give us the gruesome details in affc, which was brand new information about men we already knew were villains but did not know were into that fucked-up shit specifically, unlike being reminded that agot-era jaime and viserys wanted to fuck their sisters. it's as if after craster was killed and jc effectively broke up grrm decided cannibalism was the taboo subject matter he would fill the later books with, so we'd really feel the increasing danger of starvation-induced cannibalism with winter's arrival (and have no trouble believing rickon's new home of skagos really is a cannibal island). however, in-universe it feels like there's some sort of environmental balance connection so that the decrease in one formerly common behaviorial abomination just allows another such abomination to fill in the gap with a sharp increase in activity, like deer overpopulation resulting from lack of predators as if all the active incest somehow stopped more people from eating themselves or other people.

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franzkafkagf · 1 year ago

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do NOT think about jaehaera targaryen that shit will kill you.

do NOT think about how this little girl saw her twin being murdered, saw her mother fall deeper and deeper into depression. how this little girl saw her father rage and drink and then burn and fall from the sky.

do NOT think about how she didn’t see him for so long while he was recovering. how she, maelor and aegon ran from king’s landing, how scary that must’ve been.

do NOT think about how scared and alone jaehaera must‘ve felt like the entire war. not knowing who in her family lived and who didn’t maybe it would‘ve been better not to know.

do NOT think about how jaehaera and aegon met up again in king’s landing. how she probably didn’t recognize him. how she learned her brother and mother and uncles were dead.

do NOT think about how she must‘ve felt like after aegon was poisoned. how her grandmother asked her to slit another child‘s throat. do not think about her marriage. do not think about how she fell and what came after.

#aegon ii targaryen #jaehaera targaryen #alicent hightower #helaena targaryen #hotd #house of the dragon #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #jaehaerys targaryen #maelor targaryen #fire and blood #im not ok🤣👍🤣👍🤣👍#ales.txt #my meta #my creation #my writing

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blue-mint-winter · 8 months ago

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About Alyssa Targaryen

Alyssa Targaryen, daughter of Jaehaerys and Alysanne and mother of king Viserys I and Daemon the Rogue Prince, is a character recently talked about due to her brief appearance in the TV show. The fan opinions about her seem strangely very positive. She's seen as a cool character and a good mother to her sons, because she took them dragonriding soon after giving birth. In relation to her younger sisters Alyssa is also seen as the better one or lucky for having a happy marriage with her brother and avoiding a more tragic fate. Certainly she's regarded as the most successful among the daughters of Alysanne because her descendants continued the dynasty. I've seen opinions that Jaehaerys and Alysanne only failed as parents to their younger children (from Daella and younger), who caused many problems, but they raised the older ones - Aemon, Baelon, Alyssa, Maegelle and Vaegon - to become good and decent people. There are also voices that she's just another dead mother, her character is uninteresting/unimportant compared to other sisters and she only exists in the story to have sex and birth future main characters.

After I read about Alyssa in Fire and Blood I found that all of the above opinions feel distinctly off the mark, especially in regards to her good character. Alyssa came off to me as rather unpleasant, mean and obssessed with sex, however the in-universe book's author, maester Gyldayn, doesn't portray any of her bad qualities as bad or undesirable in a princess, while at the same time he's very critical of her sisters' displaying similar faults.

Instead Gyldayn's portrayal of Alyssa focuses on showing her as a good sisterwife to Baelon and mother to Viserys and Daemon. That's what maester Gyldayn and Jaehaerys' propaganda want the readers to think about Alyssa while at the same time telling them that she was the most unfeminine woman she could be. That creates a powerful dissonance while reading about her as compared to others.

This post will be an analysis of Alyssa, her role in the family built on incest and how it affected her and her siblings, her relationships with focus on Baelon and Vaegon, her behaviour and causes of it, her effect on her siblings before and after her death. There will be some extrapolation and theorizing, but I hope it's within reason and will make a coherent argument that Alyssa wasn't like what Gyldayn presents her or what many fans think she was. So buckle up, this will be a long one.

Alyssa's role in the family

Alyssa is the second daughter, but she was born after Daenerys died (in the end of the same year, 60 AC), so functionally she's the eldest daughter, but the shadow of Daenerys hangs over her. Alyssa was her replacement in her mother's eyes until Alysanne realized when Alyssa was 6 years old that she didn't take after Daenerys, but Baelon. From a young age Alyssa preferred boy activities and didn't want to spend time with other girls.

The princess did not act like a girl, however. She wore boy’s clothes when she could, shunned the company of other girls, preferred riding and climbing and dueling with wooden swords to sewing and reading and singing, and refused to eat porridge.

One fundamental, glaring difference between young Daenerys and Alyssa was exactly the type of sibling dynamic they had with Aemon and Baelon. Daenerys was their older sister, a little queen and she was bossing them around.

The young princes loved their sister to distraction, it was plain to see, and Daenerys delighted in the boys, “especially in telling them what to do.”

Alyssa was the younger sister who was seeking her big brother's attention. She trailed after Baelon and, as it turns out later, she never really stopped.

Just as Baelon had once followed Aemon everywhere, Alyssa trailed after Baelon. “Like a puppy,” the Spring Prince complained. Baelon was two years younger than Aemon, Alyssa nearly four years younger than him…“and a girl,” which made it far worse in his eyes.

At this point in their lives she was just an annoying younger sister to Baelon.

Daenerys was a leader of her brothers, Alyssa - their follower. Even in the role of the older sister Alyssa was nothing like Daenerys. She wasn't a leader to her own younger siblings, instead she spurned them and stayed distant from them. It's also mentioned 3 times in the book that Daenerys told her pregnant mother that she wanted a younger sister. Alyssa reacted in an opposite way to Deanerys - she didn't want anything to do with her younger sister Maegelle and refused her company.

A gentle, selfless, and sweet-natured girl, and exceedingly bright, she soon attached herself to her sister Alyssa in much the same way that Prince Baelon had attached himself to Prince Aemon, though not entirely as happily. Now it was Alyssa’s turn to bristle at having “the baby” clinging to her skirts. She evaded her as best she could, and Baelon laughed at her fury.

Alyssa's shunning of other girls and having interest in boys' activities sets her apart from her sister. Maybe it was a result of young Alyssa wanting to be different in her mother's eyes than the dead sister she never knew. Probably she just wanted to spend time playing with her brothers so she emulated them. Also, she could have noticed their close bond to their father and tried to earn his love and approval by being like them. It is noticeable that, after losing Daenerys, Jaehaerys was less involved with raising his new children.

On the surface level, it's assumed that Alyssa is just another Arya-type, but I think she has a lot more in common with Cersei in her characteristics and relationships, even though her physical description (mismatched eyes - violet and green, crooked nose after an injury) is reminiscent of Tyrion. Perhaps Alyssa's description is meant to highlight that she's Lannister-coded.

Does the parallel between Alyssa and Cersei foreshadow a similar contrast between Cersei and Daenerys Stormborn in the future books? Perhaps Daenerys will be bossing around both Jaime and Tyrion like her namesake did with Aemon and Baelon.

Alysanne and Jaehaerys announced the betrothals of their older children in 68 AC. That's when it was decided that Alyssa will not take Daenerys' place as Aemon's wife. Instead, Alysanne planned to recreate her own relationship with Jaehaerys by deciding to marry their second son to second/eldest living daughter.

“Alyssa is for Baelon,” she declared. “She has been following him around since she could walk. They are as close as you and I were at their age.”

So a 7 year old Alyssa is told by her mother that she will marry Baelon, her favourite brother, that she's meant for him. That sounds similar to Cersei's belief how she was one with Jaime, that they belonged to each other. Cersei also switched with Jaime, pretending to be him to go to swordplay lessons. Only difference is that Alyssa was encouraged to pursue a romantic relationship with her brother, while Cersei was separated from Jaime and had to keep the affair secret. Alyssa was raised to be her brother's sisterwife and giving him children was the only expectation placed on her by her parents.

The Vaegon Incident

Another similarity between Alyssa and Cersei is that they tormented their little brothers. When I read about the incident with Alyssa pouring wine on Vaegon, I thought it was rather mean and too much. He only said something insensitive to Daella. But one incident of Alyssa being mean can be excused because she defended their younger sister. On the other hand, when she tomented him again, I had to take notice:

One day, mayhaps in an attempt to spur Vaegon into making more of an effort, he brought his sister Alyssa to the yard, shining in man’s mail. The princess had not forgotten the incident of the Arbor gold. Laughing and shouting mockery, she danced around her little brother and humiliated him half a hundred times, whilst Princess Daella looked down from a window. Shamed beyond endurance, Vaegon threw down his sword and ran from the yard, never to return.

Alyssa was 14 and Vaegon was 11. He was training with Baelon for a year at the insistence of their father. The maester claims that Alyssa humiliated Vaegon so badly because of something he'd said a year ago and she'd already punished him for? Either it's true and Alyssa holds grudges like Cersei or... she just hated Vaegon. And I think it wasn't really because of Daella.

Let's rewind to the pouring wine on Vaegon incident.

“I would never marry her,” the boy said, in front of half the court. “She can barely read. She should find some lord in need of stupid children, for that’s the only sort he will ever have of her.” Princess Daella, as might be expected, burst into tears and fled the hall, with her mother, the queen, rushing after her. It fell to her sister Alyssa, at thirteen three years Vaegon’s elder, to pour a flagon of wine over his head. Even that did not make the prince repent. “You are wasting Arbor gold,” was all he said before stalking from the hall to change his clothing.

Notice that Alyssa pours wine on him, but she doesn't say anything like "this is for Daella" or "how could you say that to her". It's only maester Gyldayn's conjecture that she was defending her sister (in his efforts to paint Alyssa as the good one among her sisters and completely unlike the simple-minded, promiscous or vain and ambitious ones). Alyssa and Daella weren't close, Alyssa had no interest in hanging out with her sisters and Daella was scared of her.

Her sister Maegelle became her guiding star, and she worshipped her mother, the queen, but her sister Alyssa seemed to terrify her.

To further prove that the close sibling bond between Alyssa and Daella just didn't exist and was entirely imagined by Gyldayn, let's move on to later years. Daella died in childbirth in 82 AC, I wonder what was Alyssa's take on that if she was such a sister protector and she had her own dragon? Rhaena flew on Dreamfyre and threatened Rogar when her mother, Alyssa Velaryon, died in childbirth and that woman robbed her of the crown. There was a huge rift between Rhaena and her mother for many years and she still came to her mother's deathbed and was deeply affected by her loss. I don't hear anything about Alyssa taking Meleys to the Vale to avenge Daella. Most probably she didn't care that much about Daella. Notice how we never hear anything about her ever interacting with her sisters except that she didn't like Maegelle trailing after her when they were little. Even the so-called defense of Daella happens without Daella being present. Was it really about her at all or was Alyssa just dunking on Vaegon because she had a good pretext? I think the answer is obvious.

If defending Daella wasn't the motivation for the first Vaegon incident then what could have caused Alyssa to lash out at him?

I think it was because Vaegon rebelled against the sibling marriage that was forced on him by their parents.

“Be sweet to your little sister,” King Jaehaerys told the prince when he was five. “One day she will be your Alysanne.”

So Vaegon was told that he's meant for Daella, just like Alyssa is meant for Baelon, but unlike Alyssa, he protested the match and he made sure that everyone knew about it. Gyldayn did say that Vaegon was no coward. It was certainly brave of the boy to defy their parents' will in a public setting. Alyssa never did anything like that. To be fair, Gyldayn never mentioned what was Alyssa's reaction to her betrothal to Baelon. As a child, she might not have understood what it really meant and just agreed. He was her favourite brother after all. In Vaegon's case things were different as he and Daella disliked each other. On Baelon's side of things, he was too dutiful to Alysanne to refuse the match.

At the time of the first Vaegon incident Alyssa is 13, she's older and she understands more about what marriage to Baelon means for her. Maybe she wishes she protested it when she had a chance and now it's too late and she's jealous that Vaegon got to refuse Daella. Maybe she's already so indoctrinated into believing sibling incest is their destiny as Targaryens that she wants to "correct" Vaegon for rebelling against their entire system of belief. What's worse, he wasn't punished for his defiance and forced to marry Daella anyway, but instead he got his way. Alysanne listened to him and convinced Jaehaerys to search for a different, unrelated bride for Vaegon. And Alyssa probably knew that Alysanne was never going to call off the marriage to Baelon.

What's interesting is that first Vaegon incident happens same year that Baelon is knighted, receives Dark Sister and claims Vhagar. Baelon gets the holy insignia and is the new Visenya of his generation. Baelon, not Alyssa, the tomboy who likes swordfighting, who is a Targaryen, a future sisterwife raised on the story of the Conquest. Even if it's not outright said in the text, Alyssa probably idolizes Visenya (like Arya did) and wants to be like her. Aemon will be a king like Aegon, Baelon took the spot of Visenya and all Alyssa has left is to be their Rhaenys and become a mother (also she will like sex in a marriage of love with her brother and die early like Rhaenys). And in fact, her son Viserys became the next king and was similar to Aenys. I wonder if Baelon's knighting happens before or after the first Vaegon incident. In any case, Baelon just took tomboy Alyssa's dream away from her and it will affect her future actions. He's not even a girl and he gets to be Visenya. Just how frustrated and angry Alyssa must be? And who she's going to take it out on? Maybe the younger brother she hates and can bully without any consequences?

After the first incident Vaegon was forced to train with Baelon and spend time with him for a year, but the yard incident was the first time Alyssa was included despite how much she loved training swordplay in her younger days. I'm going to assume that at 13-14 and knowing she'll marry at 15, Alyssa wasn't allowed to train anymore (or her time in the yard was greatly reduced) and instead she was forced into princess/wife lessons, learning to do things she always despised doing (like Cersei). So she sees Vaegon, getting to spend time with Baelon, her favourite brother (is he still her favourite at this point? well, she has no one else she's close to), doing things she likes doing and having absolutely miserable time of it. Alyssa must have been pissed - Vaegon gets to live her dream life at the moment and he dares to complain, he dares to dislike it. She'd kill to be in his position. She's just boiling with anger and envy. If only she was the third son, she wouldn't be forced to play her brother's perfect little bride. She could be just one of the boys and their relationship would remain as it was, uncomplicated. Maybe if she beats Vaegon, it would show everyone that she's better than him, better at being a son. Maybe her parents would realize it and something would finally change.

And of course nothing changed and she was cruel to her little brother for nothing. That's why I called the parallel to Arya rather surface, she never did anything like that to Bran or Rickon, while Cersei's hatred of Tyrion is well-documented. Also, both Vaegon and Tyrion are the bookish younger brothers with no real interest or ability to be warriors. No one defends them from their sisters, not even their parents.

Baelon completes the reenactment of the Lannister sibling dynamic because just like Jaime, he is complicit in the humiliation and traumatizing of his little brother (Vaegon - yard incident, Tyrion - Tysha incident). He brought in Alyssa, he made it happen. I wonder if Jaehaerys told him to do it, like Tywin did with Jaime. It would certainly make sense as Jaehaerys wanted Vaegon to toughen up, so using Alyssa to "motivate" him (train harder, a boy can't be beaten by a girl) could have been his idea all along.

It seems that Alyssa is the answer to the question "what-if Cersei was a Targaryen". And we know Cersei is not a good person at all. There's no evidence in text that Alyssa was a good person beyond her role as Baelon's wife. On the contrary, her treatment of Vaegon, furious rejection of Maegelle's company and non-existent relationship with Daella, who was scared of Alyssa, all prove that she wasn't a good sister to her younger siblings.

The parallels between Alyssa and Cersei are apparent. Even their two sons have some similar characteristics. Viserys and Tommen are seen as weak and soft, Daemon and Joffrey are bloodthirsty and violent.

The parallel of Alyssa to Rhaenys works as well with her son Viserys who is a weak king like Aenys and has warrior, ambitious younger brother Daemon, who was even called "second Maegor" by his contemporaries.

Marriage and dragonriding

After marriage Alyssa claims a dragon, Meleys (name starting with M like Meraxes, Rhaenys' dragon) but at first she wanted to claim Balerion, however the dragonkeepers talked her out of it.

Like her brothers before her, Alyssa Targaryen meant to be a dragonrider, and sooner rather than later. Aemon had flown at seventeen, Baelon at sixteen. Alyssa meant to do it at fifteen.

Again, Alyssa trailing after her brothers, trying to outdo them.

Meleys was as swift a dragon as Westeros had ever seen, easily outpacing Caraxes and Vhagar when she and her brothers flew together.

That really all sounds like a competition that Alyssa is constantly participating in against her brothers, but it's all in her head. She didn't claim the bigger dragon, so she took the faster one. Even her exaggerated bragging about sex sounds like she's trying to be manlier than Baelon.

Speaking of the real competition, Alyssa wasn't a participant, but she was a vital part of it. The competition from the start was between Baelon and Aemon. Baelon was always following his older brother. He started to learn swordfighting early to catch up, had public duels with him, got knighted and claimed Vhagar - a bigger and stronger dragon than Aemon's Caraxes - at 16, so he did it at an earlier age than Aemon did (he was 17). He wanted to outdo his elder brother and marrying Alyssa was a part of that competition. Baelon gets a dragonriding sisterwife, the eldest of their sisters, the one that Jaehaerys intended for Aemon the heir. Aemon marries only their aunt with a small amount of Targaryen blood and without the Valyrian look, who will never claim a dragon. So all around, for Baelon the marriage to Alyssa is a big win over his brother. He's more like their father King than Aemon is, he's more worthy of his love (being the heir).

Young Alyssa saw how close Baelon and Aemon were - it seems natural that she wanted to be included in their competition. But the brother she focused more on was Baelon, not necessarily Aemon (though outdoing Baelon is almost guaranteed to be the same as outdoing Aemon as well). She was trailing after Baelon, she wanted to be as close to him as Aemon, have that sibling bond. Her idea to claim Balerion, the only dragon bigger than Baelon's Vhagar, not to mention the Conqueror's dragon, would have allowed her to outdo both of her brothers. Choosing Meleys, a red dragon just like Aemon's Caraxes, but faster than both of their dragons, puts her on at least equal footing with Aemon, and as a superior to both of them in terms of speed. In the air, they aren't better than she is.

Aemon marries Jocelyn when he's 15 and she's 16, while Baelon is 13 and Alyssa is 9. Alyssa marries Baelon when she's 15 and he's 18. Looks like the wedding was rushed a year because the other princesses married at 16. The reason might be that after Rhaenys was born Jocelyn became unable to give birth again so the king and queen wanted Baelon and Alyssa to quickly make a future husband for Rhaenys. Or Jaehaerys already decided to pass over Rhaenys in succession and saw Baelon as Aemon's heir, therefore Baelon needed a male heir too. Or it was all still part of the brotherly competition of who has a son first.

It's also interesting that Alyssa didn't get pregnant right after the wedding despite the reported frequent sexlife of the couple. She gave birth to Viserys in 77 AC, when she was 17, so she waited around a year before getting pregnant. Daemon was born in 81 AC and Aegon in 84 AC. There was some family planning involved with these mostly even rest periods between pregnancies. For example, Rhaenyra had her second son after a year and the third son was born after 2 years. It's most likely that Alyssa was drinking moon tea, while Baelon was enthusiastic to have sons (and get a win over Aemon). All I'm saying is that this marriage wasn't just pure passion on her side. Alyssa agreed to give children to Baelon, but she controlled when it happened (unlike her mother who was forced to birth Valerion in 77 AC, same year as Viserys, then Gael in 80 AC). That's another similarity with Cersei, who admitted to controlling her own procreation, whose children she had, how many and when.

I think Alyssa wanted to have the time in between pregnancies to pursue her hobbies. Within fortnight after birthing her sons she takes them flying on her dragon and it's not because she wants to give them legendary beginnings - it's probably because she wasn't allowed to fly for months during the pregnancy and she was just impatient to do it again.

Despite claiming a dragon, Alyssa was still excluded. She wasn't allowed to help her brothers and father during the 4th Dornish War. They would never risk her dying like queen Rhaenys in Dorne. Alyssa never used her dragon or sword skills for anything (except humiliating Vaegon). When she tells Baelon that he's made for battles and she for birthing his children, I wonder if it was how she really felt inside? Was she just resigned to her fate at that point? That no matter how much she tried, she will never be a son to Jaehaerys or an equal partner to Baelon and Aemon. She will never be Visenya.

We know that if Cersei or Arya had a dragon, they'd go apeshit with power and go off burning their enemies. And you tell me Alyssa never had a thought to fly to Oldtown and burn the Citadel as the last "fuck you" to Vaegon? Never wanted to burn the Dornish ships alongside her brothers? Never dreamed to go exploring the world? Maybe she was satisfied with Baelon and he kept her home like an anchor. She wouldn't fly off without him. Maybe he and Vhagar ensured she stayed put in King's Landing. Alyssa fully accepted her role as the mother of Baelon's sons. She bent the rules of conforming to her gender, but she couldn't truly break them or she would have lost her privileges.

The truth of Alyssa's character is that in the end she always followed the rules set by her parents. In that way she was a dutiful daughter.

Sex and dragonriding

Sex and dragonriding were Alyssa's favorite activities and she spent hours on both. In her own words she likens them to each other. She says she mounted and rode Baelon and after claiming Meleys she compares herself to her dragon saying that they were both mounted and so lost their virginity.

“Red maidens, the two of us,” the princess boasted, laughing, “but now we’ve both been mounted.”

There's no mention if adult Alyssa still continued sparring, climbing and other masculine activities she preferred in her youth, but most likely she had to give them up in order not to risk any miscarriage. Instead she spent her time on sex and dragonriding - both physical activities that she was allowed and expected to perform. But the way she did them so much, so excessively is rather odd and has implications on her state of mind.

The princess was seldom long away from the Dragonpit after that day. Flying was the second sweetest thing in the world, she would oft say, and the very sweetest thing could not be mentioned in the company of ladies.

Except she did mention it when she announced that she rode Baelon and was going to do it again.

It seems that Alyssa replaced sparring in the yard with another activity she was doing exclusively with Baelon - having sex with him. Moreover, she puts emphasis on riding him, being on top. It suggests that she was still trying to outdo him. It was definitely a way for her to take control of some aspect of her life and their relationship.

Some readers dismiss passages about Alyssa's sexlife as just Gyldayn being gross and perverted. Her sexual behavior is brushed off as unimportant despite how uncommon and even unique her actions were. I can't think of any other female character in ASOIAF acting this way (let me know if there was one), even among the ones who liked sex.

The bride was fifteen, the groom eighteen. Unlike their father and mother, Baelon and Alyssa did not wait to consummate their union; the bedding that followed their wedding feast was the source of much ribald humor in the days that followed, for the young bride’s sounds of pleasure could be heard all the way to Duskendale, men said. A shyer maid might have been abashed by that, but Alyssa Targaryen was as bawdy a wench as any barmaid in King’s Landing, as she herself was fond of boasting. “I mounted him and took him for a ride,” she declared the morning after the bedding, “and I mean to do the same tonight. I love to ride.”

Alyssa is a 15 year old child bride who was so loud during her first time having sex that everyone in the castle heard it and talked about it, then she told them all her favorite sex position. And she was boasting about it. That is not a normal behavior of a girl that just lost her virginity. Gyldayn is weird not because he reported her abnormal actions and words, but because he tries to make them sound like a good thing and not something actually concerning. Just because she's so eager to have sex with her husband, it's all good and fun. And even then, she's compared to a bawdy barmaid (I'm not exactly sure from this wording if Alyssa is boasting that she's bawdy like a barmaid or Gyldayn compares her to a bawdy barmaid because she was fond of boasting about her sexlife). Gyldayn treats this story like a humorous anecdote.

Even if Alyssa was just a horny teenager, why was she so shamelessly discussing her wedding night in public? The reasons I could think of are:

An attempt to act more like a man than a woman by boasting of a sexual "conquest" (another question is if she even knew how women act, she wasn't close to any, but I'm going to assume she knew normal conduct and chose to act differently on purpose).

To say: "I was on top, so I'm the real boss in this marriage".

To embarrass and shame the gossiping courtiers (maybe? But then she kept having loud sex so maybe not).

As a passive-aggressive form of rebellion against her parents - "you can make me marry, but I'm going to act in a way that's as scandalous and embarrassing to you as possible while technically obeying the rules and doing what I'm supposed to do".

Because she feels so euphoric after the sex and she has a poor impulse control, so she's oversharing.

Because being shameless and bawdy is a part of her personality now.

Alyssa's unusual sexual behaviour is dismissed as her just being a horny teenager or having high sex drive or being so in love with Baelon or all of the above. The fact is that Alyssa's sexual habits didn't change until she died at 24 after complications from childbirth.

Alyssa's promiscuous behavior could be caused by her still emulating Baelon and following his lead like in her childhood. When they married he was 18, older and more knowledgeable. Baelon was a lusty lad, so she became bawdy like a barmaid to match him.

I think it can be argued that Alyssa exhibits signs of sex addiction.

Prince Baelon had not ceased smiling since his marriage. When not aloft, Baelon and Alyssa spent every hour together, most oft in their bedchamber. Prince Baelon was a lusty lad, for those same shrieks of pleasure that had echoed through the halls of the Red Keep on the night of their bedding were heard many another night in the years that followed.

One thing is being newlyweds, the other is spending many hours having sex and making it a habit for 9 years of marriage. From the sound of it Alyssa's life revolved around dragonriding and sex, excluding any other activities and company of other people. It seems extremely unhealthy. Spending this much time and focus on sex sounds like she's addicted.

Against all advice, his mother clapped the boy in swaddling clothes, strapped him to her chest, and took him aloft on Meleys when he was nine days old.

Unnecessary risky behaviour resulting in child endagerment? Check. That's what an addict would do. Their inhibitions and impulse control are often lowered.

Another sign of sexual addiction is "engaging in sexual behaviors that go against your personal values, religious beliefs or what society deems appropriate". Alyssa's loud sex and boasting about it definitely aren't what Westerosi society deems appropriate.

Next sign of sex addiction is engaging in paraphilia, like exhibitionism, voyeurism, sadomasochism. Alyssa's behavior is almost exhibitionistic. She's definitely skirting an edge here. She doesn't expose her sexlife to other people's eyes, but to their ears.

“They call me Baelon the Brave,” the prince told his wife at her bedside, “but you are far braver than me. I would sooner fight a dozen battles than do what you’ve just done.” Alyssa laughed at him. “You were made for battles, and I was made for this. Viserys and Daemon and Aegon, that’s three. As soon as I am well, let’s make another. I want to give you twenty sons. An army of your own!”

This quote says a lot. Baelon praised her for being so brave, because childbirth is dangerous and women died because of it - their grandmother Alyssa Velaryon, their sister Daella just died recently, their mother had difficult births with Valerion and Gael. Alyssa just laughs it off, dismisses his worry. She doesn't see the danger. Well, she survived it 3 times, so she's different than other women (she's not as she later doesn't recover and dies at 24). She wants to get back to it ASAP - or rather to the babymaking. That's a risky behavior that disregards her health in pursuit of what she's addicted to. She wants to get her fix.

All of this put together paints Alyssa as at least sex obssessed if not sex addicted, especially the amount of time she dedicates to it and her risktaking, reckless attitude, against justified worries of Baelon or maesters advice. Gyldayn could be exaggerating. Or he's just saying it how it was but makes it into a humorous, romantic tale. Of brother and sister that do nothing but fly on dragons and have sex. That's their entire marriage life. But the focus put on it really makes it look unusual. Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 13 children, but there are no "heartwarming" tales about how much time they spent in the bedroom.

Alyssa expressed a belief that she was made for giving birth, for procreation. She accepts her assigned role in life and finds as much enjoyment as she could in fulfilling it. There's nothing else. She was raised to do only this and the indoctrination worked too well. Alysanne wanted the couple to be like her own marriage and Alyssa emulates her by planning to have a bunch of kids, even though Alysanne was so much more to Jaehaerys - advisor, diplomat, lawmaker. Baelon even told Aemon that he leaves making law to him, because he prefers to make sons.

“I will leave the making of law to you, brother,” Prince Baelon declared, whilst drinking to Prince Aemon’s appointment. “I would sooner make sons.”

Apart from her environment and fulfilling expectations what could be the other causes of Alyssa's sexual behavior? It could be related to many mental health problems and we know Targaryens as a family have a predisposition to them. If she's addicted, it could be a response to personal trouble. A tomboy is forced to be a traditional wife, giving up her dreams. It could be a coping mechanism if she was feeling depression. Sex raises mood like alcohol. An addict wants to forget his troubles and just feel good. Alyssa's younger sisters, Saera and Viserra, also showed signs of addiction, both getting drunk when they were young teenagers. Saera at 12, Viserra at 15.

Alysanne was pregnant with Valerion and Gael around the time of both of Alyssa's pregnancies. I wonder what does it do to a pregnant woman to watch her mother be forced into risky pregnancies, having difficult labour and recovering for half a year after that? Did she feel like she was seeing her own future? That this will be her in 20 years? But it's too depressing to think about, so she had to ignore, repress, deny it. She was different, younger, stronger, she was in control of her body, Baelon wouldn't do that to her. This is her battle and she was made for this, she's a warrior. Her mother survived it 13 times, so Alyssa will too. Better stop thinking about it and go have sex or fly on a dragon.

Alyssa having depression may seem like a leap but as I said - she has a good reason. She's a tomboy turned housewife at 15. What are her real feelings on the marriage? Gyldayn never provides anything substantial. He says outright that "Prince Baelon had not ceased smiling since his marriage" and links it with all the sex he was having. Why didn't he say instead "Baelon and Alyssa were smiling", just Baelon? What about Alyssa? She's constantly dragonriding or having sex. Both of those activities are keeping her way from all other people except Baelon. It looks like she's isolating herself. When she interacts with others, she's bawdy and boasting about her sexlife (after wedding night, after claiming Meleys) or reaffirms her role in life as a childbearer (to Baelon and in front of the maesters after she gave birth to Aegon).

Alyssa's solitary activities after marriage and over the top enthusiasm for sex may be covering up her feelings of dissatisfaction with her life. Look at the similarity to her son Daemon, he had a reputation for his abundant sexlife and patronage of brothels when he was unhappily married to Rhea Royce. He couldn't even hold any position on a Small Council for long and Otto was undermining him and taking the spot as his brother's chief councilor. Daemon had plenty of reasons to be unhappy and dissatisfied with his life and that's when he was behaving promiscuously. Then it all disappeared after Rhea's death and him choosing a new wife for himself. It's likely Alyssa passed the predisposition to sex addiction to her son.

Other character acting similar to Alyssa in the series would be Robert Baratheon - a chief example of a depressed sex addict, but he was masking it by feasting and getting drunk all the time. Alyssa's main parallel, Cersei, became an alcoholic, which is just another type of addiction. Cersei also exhibited risky sexual behavior by having an affair with Jaime, having his children and everything that followed from that (like sex in the Broken Tower, her affair with Lancel).

Taking into account all of the above I'd say it looks like Alyssa developed a sex addiction and any type of addiction signifies deep personal trouble that one tries to forget/cope with.

Gyldayn portrays the marriage as happy, but the only one who was shown as happy was Baelon. Gyldayn sees that Alyssa liked sex, satisfied her husband's sexual needs all the time, accepted her role as a mother and gave birth to sons so he treats it like a successful marriage. But he doesn't care about what Alyssa felt, only Baelon.

Alyssa - the role model for Saera and Viserra

Alyssa resembles Cersei because of her "I'm not like the other girls" attitude. She wants to be in the boys' club with Aemon and Baelon and has nothing in common with her sisters. And she's said to avoid other girls' company. It's all rather strange. In a way she's like Alysanne, who was purposely deprived of female friends in her childhood by her mother, however in Alyssa's case it was a choice.

Despite Alyssa's distance she had a profound effect on both Saera and Viserra as their older sister. She was supposed to be their role model as a Targaryen princess. They were probably constantly compared to her and told that she's a good wife. If they want to be successful, they should be like Alyssa. Unfortunately for the younger girls, Alyssa is in fact a terrible role model.

Saera is the most similar to Alyssa out of all their sisters. This comparison is explicitly stated in the book, as according to her maesters Saera was:

as strong and quick and spirited as her sister Alyssa.

The similarities between the family's problem child and the parentally approved older sister are also in their behaviour, which Saera was probably copying off Alyssa. Saera even wanted to claim Balerion like Alyssa initially did before the dragonkeepers changed her mind. It's also interesting to note that:

Septon Barth tells us that Saera’s sisters all misliked her to various degrees.

That means Alyssa shared the common dislike for Saera despite keeping general distance from all her sisters and the 6 year age gap. What reason Alyssa would have to dislike Saera? I think the most possible reason was that Saera became Jaehaerys' favourite and could get anything she wanted, despite her general mayhem and misbehavior. Meanwhile, Alyssa's efforts to please him, first by being like the boys, then obediently marrying Baelon, didn't get her anything she wanted, apart from a dragon that she wasn't allowed to use for battle or for any other purpose than leisure flying. Jaehaerys was never the same after Saera's escape to Essos but there was no mention of his reaction to Alyssa's death. It's clear that Saera had his affection without trying, but Alyssa didn't, so Alyssa had a good reason to be jealous of Saera and dislike her.

Going in chronological order, the first similarity between Alyssa and Saera was their cruel and humiliating treatment of those who couldn't even defend themselves from them - their own siblings. Alyssa was cruel to her little brother Vaegon and humiliated him so badly that he completely gave up on learning the sword despite keeping up with it for a year, but no one ever mentions her actions as something bad. Vaegon was an unpopular, bookish and unhappy boy that wasn't good at traditional male activities like fighting, so Alyssa could bully him without any repercussions and even with a tacit permission from their father (reminds me of Sam Tarly situation). No wonder he lost confidence, closed off and took the first chance to leave the family that didn't love or protect him. No wonder he only visited when he was summoned and his letters to Alysanne were perfunctory.

Was Saera emulating Alyssa's cruelty? It's very possible. Saera was 6 and 7 years old when the two incidents of Alyssa bullying Vaegon happened. Saera might not have seen them (it's likely she did), but she definitely heard of them and saw how Alyssa was unpunished. It must have emboldened Saera's own cruel streak. Her first childhood victim was Daella who she kept scaring with her pranks (the prank with hiding bees in a chamberpot was definitely dangerous and cruel). Daella was an easy target as she was mentally disabled and delicate. Septon Barth noted Saera's jealousy of the attention Daella was getting from their mother. After Daella left, Saera started playing cruel and humiliating pranks on another mentally disabled person, the court fool Tom Turnip.

It's also worth noting that both Vaegon and Daella were in Jaehaerys' disfavour because they both failed to meet his expectations. Both were avoiding marriage in their own ways, Vaegon lacked martial talent and Daella's mental disability was the proof against the king's Targaryen supremacy propaganda. Jaehaerys was the driving force to send them away from their home, never to return. It seems that Alyssa was used by their father to teach Vaegon a lesson. Saera not only picked up on Jaehaerys' dislike for Daella, but also on his quiet approval of Alyssa's bullying of Vaegon. She knew it was allowed.

The next similarity between sisters was in their hypersexual behaviour. Saera was 8 years old when Alyssa got married and the tale of her wedding night spread. She must have heard some of Alyssa's boasting about sex, saying how much she loved it, or the often occuring loud sex sounds coming from her bedroom. It continued until Alyssa's death when Saera was 16, nearly 17. Saera's formative years were spent influenced by her sister's sex-obssessed example. Alyssa's behaviour was accepted by all, approved by their parents despite how unusual it was. It's no wonder Saera took a cue from her older sister and began her own sexual explorations as a teenager with her group of friends. She even sought out the older and more experienced Braxton Beesbury to be her Baelon substitute.

Like Alyssa, Saera also exhibited signs of sex addiction - risky sexual behavior, sex with multiple partners, sexually humiliating pranks on Tom Turnip (voyeuristic in nature - she wanted to see him naked, to see him having sex). We know she had an addictive personality as she became alcoholic when she was 12 years old.

Saera's scandalous sexual conduct was caught by her parents after Alyssa's death, in the same year. And she even used as one of her justifications that "Baelon used to kiss Alyssa all the time", proving that she took notice of their relationship and how sex-focused it was. She learned from them that a happy, successful marriage is based on having sex all the time. At the same time, the only other example she had was her parents, who were becoming distant from each other and stopped having sex (and their reasons for disagreeing were Daella's death and Jaehaerys forcing 2 risky pregnancies on Alysanne, which endagered her life). Aemon and Jocelyn lived on Dragonstone, so they couldn't serve as a more normal example of a married couple for Saera.

Viserra was also affected by Alyssa's bad example. She witnessed Alyssa's marriage from the age of 4 to 13 years old, so for most of her young life. According to Alysanne:

"She aims much higher, our Viserra. I have seen the way she preens and prances around Baelon. That is the husband she desires, and not for love of him. She wants to be the queen.”

So Alysanne started losing it because she thought that Viserra wanted to be the queen, while Aemon was the heir and married, so marrying Baelon would not make her a queen. Unless she suspected the sly Viserra to have a plan to get rid of Aemon and Rhaenys to get to the throne after marrying Baelon. However, the one who explicitly stated that she wanted to be a queen was Saera, not Viserra. Alysanne was confusing her daughters. Previously she had more accurate insights on her children. Maybe she was spending less time with them and focusing more on young Gael.

Alysanne statement has to be taken with a grain of salt, it's not entirely factual, but rather her opinion on Viserra. She can't allow Alyssa to be replaced in Baelon's heart, as she fashioned their marriage in the image of her own with Jaehaerys. She believes that Baelon and Alyssa are the true love story, so he can never remarry. Her solution to the danger of Viserra replacing Alyssa is to betroth her to the old lord Manderly. That way she'll stay far away from Baelon and Alyssa's memory will be preserved.

Viserra understandably protests the betrothal, but her parents are unyielding, so she decides to seduce Baelon by sneaking into his bed naked and drunk. The thing is, that behaviour wasn't Viserra's usual MO. She was known for playing with boys like puppies, manipulating them to do what she wanted and sending them on foolish quests. She wasn't a seductress. Then why did she take this straightforward approach with Baelon and just jumped into his bed?

“He married one sister, why not another?” Viserra told her closest friend, the empty-headed Beatrice Butterwell. “I am much prettier than Alyssa ever was, you saw her. She had a broken nose.”

This quote proves Viserra's interest in Baelon and also provides a lead to the reason for Viserra's actions. Based on what Viserra saw of Baelon's relationship with Alyssa, she concluded that Baelon only cares about sex and the only way to get his attention is to offer him her body. Viserra doesn't know how to interact with or romance her older brother. Alyssa spent most of her time with him by having sex, so that must be how it's done, right? It sounds like Viserra is unaware if there was anything other than sex between Alyssa and Baelon. She even thinks that he wouldn't care which sister he's having sex with.

It's important to note that Viserra is vain, but she is not stupid. She's described as sly and capable of manipulating people to do what she wants. A skilled manipulator has to be observant and notice things about people. And those are the conclusions she drew about Baelon and Alyssa's marriage which she observed for most of her life - that all he cared about was having sex with his sisterwife, that all a good sisterwife had to do was to be sexually available. It's possible that Viserra didn't understimate Baelon's actual loyalty to dead Alyssa, but only his sense of duty and honour. He didn't take advantage of her, even when she offered, but if his parents ordered him to marry her, he'd probably obey them like he always did.

Alyssa is seen as different and better then her younger sisters despite all the evidence to the contrary. The positive spin on her qualities is like the opposite of the negative spin on her sisters' characters. Basically, she gets special treatment (from both her parents and Gyldayn) because she married Baelon and fulfills the traditional role of wife and mother. On the other hand, when her sisters follow her example or want the same things she had, they are villainized. Saera is called "an evil child" by her septa, then "a whore" by her father and heavily punished, forced to watch her father kill her lover, Viserra is labeled as ambitious and manipulative by her mother.

Maegelle, Alyssa and the incestous family planning

Maegelle seems to most people like the sister that had the least to do with Alyssa, had a good life as a septa and was lucky to escape her sisters' various tragic fates. However, she was heavily impacted as a child by Alyssa and also their parents' plans for both of them.

Alyssa broke the chain of younger siblings trailing after the elder. Baelon followed Aemon, Alyssa followed Baelon, but when Maegelle tried to follow her, Alyssa was completely against it. Probably she just didn't want Maegelle joining the dynamic Alyssa had with their brothers, getting close to them and taking away their affection.

Maegelle joined the Faith of the Seven in 73 AC when she was 10 years old. It can be argued that Alysanne was always going to send one daughter to Oldtown, but did it have to be Maegelle and not Daella, Saera or Viserra at a later date? Maegelle could have married Vaegon or someone else, so why didn't she?

Jaehaerys' idea for arranging marriages was pretty simple, he wanted to pair them up by the order of birth - eldest son to eldest daughter, second son to second daughter and so on. It was Alysanne who had to intervene and tell him who liked who, he had no clue about the relationships between his children. According to Jaehaerys' matchmaking plan, Aemon would have married Alyssa, so logically I assume next would be Baelon and Maegelle, Vaegon and Daella. Alysanne must have seen problems with that, like the age gaps - 6 years between Aemon and Alyssa, 5 years between Baelon and Maegelle. She also made Jocelyn sit next to Aemon during a feast for his investiture as Prince of Dragonstone when he was 7 and saw that the two got along really well. So that is one example of Alysanne's successful matchmaking and arranged well in advance before the betrothals were made.

It's likely that Maegelle's future was sacrificed to appease the Faith so they wouldn't oppose another full sibling marriage - between Alyssa and Baelon. And that's why when the betrothals were made in 68 AC, Jaehaerys told Vaegon that he will marry Daella, not Maegelle who was older.

I wonder if Maegelle became pious because she was being prepared for her life as a septa or it had something to do with Alyssa rejecting her company. Maybe the religion provided Maegelle with some comfort and friendship. Maybe she didn't want to marry her brother or anyone at all and becoming a septa allowed her to avoid that fate. The opposite was also possible, what if Maegelle only wanted to please and imitate Alysanne, who was pious herself, but she didn't actually want to become a septa? Maybe she became pious because she was praying for something specific, had some wish? The point is we will never know what Maegelle wanted to do with her life as she was never asked and the choice was taken from her before she was grown enough to make it. And the same thing happened sooner or later to all the other siblings. In any case, Alysanne removed Maegelle from the marriage plans so that Alyssa could marry Baelon.

Was it fair to Maegelle to decide her whole life for her when she was so young? Was it fair to do the same to Alyssa or any of their other siblings? The moral of the story of all the children of Jaehaerys and Alysanne is simple - that parents controlling their children's future and deciding their whole lives and careers when they are 5-10 years old is unfair, awful and often has tragic consequences. Maegelle is as much of a victim here, she was said to be bright and studious as a child, she had intelligence and potential for greatness that was squandered by sending her to be a septa. Funny that Alysanne didn't notice that Maegelle, not Alyssa, was the most like her out of all her daughters. Maegelle with her gentleness, caring for the weak like Daella, charitableness could have been the next Good Queen.

Maegelle is regarded as the only sister that got away from tragedies of her siblings. But she was made to join a religious order as a child. She never had a choice or an opportunity to be anything different. When she died, nursing patients with greyscale, she was only 34 years old. She didn't even reach middle age. She lived only 10 years longer than Alyssa. Ironically, Saera could have outlived them all, as the last time she was mentioned, she was alive at age 34 during the Great Council of 101 AC.

Alyssa despite being portrayed as accepting of her duty and even enthusiastic about having more children, isn't the happy exception, the successful daughter. She has to give up on any of her previous dreams and aspirations, she has power - a dragon, that she's not allowed to use in battle as equal with her brothers. Despite having the role of Rhaenys she can't fight alongside her brothers, she has to stay behind and be protected by them. She's reduced to being just a wife and mother and it seems to me that her enthusiasm about sex is at best her simply finding pleasure and control in what little she's allowed to have and do. She makes the best of what she has because what else she can do? It can be even argued that she showed signs of sex addiction and was hiding her dissatisfaction and depression. She dies at 24 from complications after childbirth.

Both Alyssa and Maegelle were obedient daughters who spent their lives fulfilling their parents' expectations, following the paths they didn't choose, and died as a result without even reaching middle age. They are both tragic, but their parents, Gyldayn - and through them the book readers - don't realize it.

After Alyssa's death

After Alyssa's death her shadow is cast over her younger sisters. Saera and Viserra are condemned for pursuing what was once granted to Alyssa. They can't have a brother, a lover or a dragon. They aren't allowed to fill her shoes. Alysanne projects herself on Alyssa and won't let a younger and prettier queen take her place. You know she just hates the idea of Jaehaerys marrying a new woman after she's gone, because it would disprove their eternal love, so Baelon has to be forever Alyssa's.

Alyssa isn't just a distant elder sister and bad role model for her younger sisters (who get punished for acting like she did - that's a big parenting failure of Jaehaerys and Alysanne). Her ghost deeply affects Baelon who isn't allowed to stop mourning her for the rest of his life. It's written like a proof of their great love that he couldn't move on, but what if he eventually wanted to? Baelon couldn't find happiness again after Alyssa because that would disappoint Alysanne and he was too dutiful to her. So he was stuck in this loyalty to a dead wife for 16 years (85 AC to 101 AC).

Though shattered by his loss, Baelon took solace in the two strong sons that she had left him, Viserys and Daemon, and never ceased to honor the memory of his sweet lady with the broken nose and mismatched eyes.

I find it interesting that only Baelon's reaction to her death was mentioned. Compared to the other siblings dying, usually we are told Alysanne's and/or Jaehaerys' reaction. They probably mourned her, but didn't see her death at 24 due to complications after childbirth as overly tragic. They probably thought that these things happen and there was nothing they could do. They don't realize that expecting Alyssa to keep having more children was what killed her. She had two sons, but to carry on the family tradition of sibling marriages, they needed her to have a daughter. Baelon wanted a girl, a sisterwife for his son, to continue the cycle in the next generation.

Gyldayn's description of Baelon's reaction to Alyssa's death seems overly sugary. He's trying to make their relationship look as romantic as possible, but calling her "sweet lady with the broken nose and mismatched eyes" ruins the effect. In what way Alyssa was ever sweet to anyone? Calling attention to her broken nose and mismatched eyes is rather weird, as they are physical imperfections. It's causing the whiplash, a dissonance between what was told and shown. How much of this statement by Gyldayn is even true?

Conclusions

Alyssa Targaryen is a complex character beyond being a wife and mother. She's distant from most of her siblings but has a significant influence and impact on their lives. The only one she's close to is Baelon and she tries to compete with him and Aemon. She bullied Vaegon, furiously rejected Maegelle, scared Daella and set a bad example of sexual behavior to Saera and Viserra. What's more, Alyssa's character isn't good or nice or even responsible. She's cruel, bawdy and competitive, avoids company of other girls and her sisters, because she thinks she's different (better) than them. She dismisses the danger of childbirth and unnecessarily risks her newborn sons when she takes them dragonriding.

Alyssa is deeply indoctrinated by her parents to believe in Targaryen supremacy ideology and accepts her role as a sisterwife and childbearer. She follows the rules set by them and is rewarded and praised for it. Despite that, she's likely depressed and coping by having sex or dragonriding. She exhibits signs of having a sex addiction, which is likely because her younger sisters and son Daemon also had addictive personalities. Her marriage life consists of having sex for most of the time and only her husband is mentioned to be happy with it. She's not allowed to express and pursue her own goals and the cases of her bullying Vaegon seem to be her lashing out because he rebelled against his parents' plans for his future.

Many existing similaries prove that the Alyssa is the answer to the question: "what if Cersei was a Targaryen?" She also resembles queen Rhaenys in her dynamic with her older brothers.

Alyssa's death isn't seen as tragic, despite her dying at 24 after giving birth to a third son they didn't need. She died young and for unnecessary reason. Her death was in vain as the child didn't live through infancy. The only one who was said to be mourning her was Baelon, who became a martyr of their great, lost love, and a sad widower for the rest of his life to appease Alysanne, who saw his marriage to Alyssa as a mirror to her own marriage with Jaehaerys.

Alyssa is not the one good, unproblematic daughter that Jaehaerys and Alysanne raised. Their bad parenting affected her as well as every single one of her siblings, even Maegelle, whose future was sacrificed so that Alyssa and Baelon could marry.

Jaehaerys and Alysanne weren't good parents to any of their children, including Alyssa. They decided their children's future paths when they were still too young and didn't finish growing, and then expected them to follow those plans. In result, most of the siblings died, either due to obeying their parent's will (Daenerys, Aemon, Alyssa, Maegelle, Daella) or rebelling against it (Viserra, Gael). The 3 remaining ones (Baelon, Vaegon, Saera) didn't die, but endured much suffering and hardship in their lives as an effect of their parents' control over them.

I worked on this for a week, so I hope it's interesting and at least provides some food for thought. I'm open to questions and more discussion, so you can send asks. I might write more analysis on Jaehaerys and Alysanne's bad parenting method and maybe some other topics related to their reign.

#alyssa targaryen #fire and blood #asoiaf theories #asoiaf meta #maegelle targaryen #vaegon targaryen #baelon the brave #baelon targaryen #king jaehaerys #jaehaerys the conciliator #alysanne targaryen #saera targaryen #viserra targaryen #my meta #my thoughts

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ride-thedragon · 1 year ago

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NETTLES AND RACE.

It is a shorter analysis but a needed one. The way that Nettles race plays into her interpretation throughout the narrative is interesting.

Obviously, she is a mystery throughout the narrative. We don't know much about her, and what little we do know is often contradictory within the written narrative. But her race plays a part in that.

When we look at who's writing the story, we are being told what occurred through very specific lenses. Septon Eustace, Maester Gyldayn, and Mushroom are all men, from different backgrounds, but men in this world none the less, white men (andals) at that.

So we see their bias when it comes to Rhaenyra no longer being beautiful because she kept the weight after having children.

Or with their depictions of Alicent and Helaena or the twins with their one isn't fit to be heir she won't listen, yadda, yadda, yadda....

Bias occurs.

With Nettles in the narrative, however, her being a woman, poor and black, all play a role in the intersection of her identity.

There is nothing about her when it comes to her description that suggests she's dirty, filthy, or promiscuous, and the people who describe her as such weren't around her in the time period they were describing.

'She slept with shepherds for sheep' while having the markings of a thief in their world.

She is filthy, yet the only time we get an in world description of her cleaning habits, she's bathing with a prince and getting things (hair brush, mirror) to maintain her appearance.

Like, I hate to be the one to say it, but let's think about these conclusions logically.

There would be an intersectional bias with Nettles in the narrative. She's looked down on because Septon Eustace decides to play guessing games with her backstory and then uses his own unconfirmed deduction to say what could've happened in Maidenpool.

Even in Maidenpool, they call her the brown child, Daemon cares for.

I don't think this is something that exists in a bubble, and I think the narrators of fire and blood are given a clear bias so before we jump to conclusions about Nettles, remember that the way she is written isn't from her perspective or with her input. It's by men who didn't know her and never recount an in person interaction with her. Not even a quote she might have said.

Also, not to hype up George, but the man clearly loves his history, so I beg anyone who thinks I'm reaching to look up how black women (any woc could work) are written by white scholars and then how mistresses are written about in history and let the thought marinate.

#nettles #nettles asoiaf #netty #a song of ice and fire #fire and blood meta #fire and blood #asoiaf meta #nettles thoughts #history books are kinda weird ngl #nettles and race #but what is new

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addaerontruther · 9 months ago

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Hi! Do you think you could expand more on your thoughts regarding Aemond probably being jealous of Daeron in the show? Or maybe some thoughts on how they might portray their relationship. If you have more to say of course, it's just that I saw your post about it and I'd love to read more of it

I don't think jealous is really the right word! I don't think Aemond is in touch with reality enough to be jealous of Daeron, to be quite honest. I do think he was irritated at the mention of Daeron accompanying the Hightower host, though, and it's based on this quote from the book:

Prince Aemond had no taste for such delays, however. He had no need of his brothers or their dragons, he declared; Aegon was too badly hurt, Daeron too young. Aye, Caraxes was a fearsome beast, savage and cunning and battle-tested…but Vhagar was older, fiercer, and twice as large. Septon Eustace tells us that the Kinslayer was determined that this should be his victory; he had no wish to share the glory with his brothers, nor any other man.

He's arrogant and glory hungry in both iterations, and he doesn't want to have to say his brother's helped him win. He fully believes he and Vhagar can win the throne all by themselves, and the thought of another brother getting in his way after he just disposed of Aegon irritated him.

I do think there's the potential for him to be jealous of Daeron if he hears the way other people talk about him. Stalwart, kind, clever, adept with a sword and a lute, the subject of many a maiden fantasy. Aemond is chronically bitchless and no one wants to look him in his one eye so I imagine there's certainly room for him to be bothered by the way everyone seems to love his little brother... especially considering Daeron avoided all the carnage that comes with growing up in King's Landing (in the show). Who wouldn't be jealous of that?

#daeron the daring #daeron targaryen #aemond targaryen #house of the dragon #fire and blood #fire and blood meta #my asks

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ifandomus · 2 years ago

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In addition, they were outnumbered and already struggling due to low supplies (exacerbated by team black’s forces using the scorched earth policy by burning down their forests and villages), disease, and team black using guerilla warfare tactics (raids and ambushes) against them.

I will also never be able to understand how killing a man who's trying to negotiate for the survival of his men under a peace banner (which included him being willing to risk his life by offering a 1 vs. 3 trial by combat) and then slaughtering hundreds of severely struggling men while they were trying to surrender just to spite their commander is somehow satisfying for people. Sure, it definitely wasn't the worst war crime committed during the Dance, but the only one who comes out looking honorable in that situation is Criston, while his killers just seem like petty cowards. (Also, Garibald and Pate taking Criston’s decapitated head to Tumbleton doesn't exactly reflect well on their intelligence, considering that they are about to face a kid with a dragon who has won every battle he has fought in and sacked and burned down a town because some of the inhabitants killed another one of the people he cared about)

I also think it kind of decreases the validity of the “he was an envoy” part of why Aemond killing Luke was wrong (although it only invalidates that part specifically).

Hello! What are your thoughts on how Criston Cole died in the Butcher's Ball? Do you think Garibald Grey, Dustin, and Pate Longleaf's tactics were treacherous and cowardly? I do not understand why Cole's death is seen as satisfying when he was trying to surrender and save his men in a battle they knew they could not win. And Garibald even acknowledged that it was not a fair battle and it was a massacre.

Well, Sahtine, there's really no other way to put this. The white flag has been used even in Roman times, it's been used in the medieval period, it's been used across continents. It's been an integral part of international law ever since we can ascertain that something resembling this concept exists. It's in the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, it's in Hugo Grotius' 1625 De jure belli ac pacis. People across space and time know what it means and have somehow agreed to respect it so often that the practice became quasi-universal. Killing someone that comes under a peace banner is breaking the laws of war, plain and simple. Many military manuals pertaining to countries all around the world consider firing intentionally upon a parlementaire carrying a flag of truce to be a literal war crime: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/fr/customary-ihl/v2/rule67

They could have just refused Criston's offer of trial by combat, sent him back and met his army on the battlefield. But that was the whole point, wasn't it, to deny him an "honourable" death. Had Criston's army surrendered first and were butchered regardless, it still would have been considered a war crime. It still should be, because the men laid down their shields and fled.

With Ser Criston dead upon the ground, the men who had followed him from Harrenhal lost heart. They broke and fled, casting aside their shields as they ran. Their foes came after, cutting them down by the hundreds. Afterward Ser Garibald was heard to say, “Today was butchery, not battle.”

The United Nations defines "no quarter given" as a war crime. Killing members of the armed forces who have laid down their arms is also considered a war crime: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml. Sure, the UN is a contemporary organization, but these principles are not new, they've just been more recently enshrined on paper.

So, yes. IDK who thinks of it as "satisfying". It's really there in the text to highlight how Rhaenyra's side committed atrocities, too.

#fire and blood spoilers #fire and blood #fire and blood meta #hotd spoilers #hotd #hotd meta #spoilers #anti team black #(i dont think that this is actually anti for anyone who isnt a toxic team black stan who im trying to keep away)#team black critical #criston cole #team green #the greens

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g0lightly · 10 months ago

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*me tuning into HOTD back in 2023 bc of that negroni spagliatto vid*: "god imagine caring enough about this show to have a favorite dragon" *me in my notes unironically in 2024*: see above

based dreamfyre's only bodycount is from trying to escape the dragonpit (the only one to break free from her chains thats my bbygirl 🙂‍↕️) which 1) was self-defense 2) in freeing herself to break the dragonpit dome dreamfyre also effectively sacrificed herself to do more for the in-universe equivalent of nuclear disarmament than... anyone else?!

it's simply impossible for me not to stan dreamfyre and her dragonriders! rhaena rode her around the realm to bond with her girlfriends and to search for her missing daughter! probably the only time helaena ever felt remotely free in her life was on dreamfyre! the fact that the dragon that arguably embodies some of the most important themes of the series (other than balerion though i feel this also enhances her as a foil to him) is basically absent from the show is a damned tragedy in my opinion.

theory under the cut, TW discussion of a character's suicide.

i have a theory that helaena's suicide -- described as mysterious by the maesters -- may have had more to it. it's easy and frankly, reasonable to understand it in the text as a tragic and all too common example of the way women's mental health has been historically neglected. however, as we're seeing in the HOTD adaptation, halaena is a dragon dreamer. GRRM has even said that show helaena is "a richer and more fascinating character than the one I created in FIRE & BLOOD," specifically citing her gift of prophecy as a major component of that compliment. as he explains in the post, helaena in the books is has few personality traits and her close bond with dreamfyre is one of them.

what if helaena lived a second life in dreamfyre after her death? even in the book where she is not intended to be a dragon dreamer, her motivation to do this could be to regain the freedom she enjoyed while riding dreamfyre or to simply use her power to end the violence. or perhaps it just happened because their bond was so strong. in the show, i wonder if helaena will do this because she sees in a dragon dream that it is the only way to end the most brutal ravages of the war? especially given the way that helaena spoke of the way lowborn women must lose their children more often than highborn women, i imagine that the grief of the mothers around helaena is weighing on her in addition to her own grief.

what if helaena intentionally sacrificed herself and dreamfyre to prevent more death? in the text, i think it's significant that dreamfyre was noted to be blinded in one eye before she broke the dome. this mirrors the loss of aemond targaryen's eye, arguably the event that set the war into motion. thematically, dreamfyre's sacrifice in death seems to represent the end of the cycle started by this eye for an eye mentality that led to so much death and destruction.

if you'd like some extra tin foil hat with your theory, i also wonder if dreamfyre actually didn't get crushed and managed to escape but the maesters said she died with the other dragons when the dome fell because it would look really bad if she didn't. she's one of many dragons whose remains are unconfirmed however she is the only dragon that broke free from her chains in the dragonpit.

even if dreamfyre did physically die, did she psychically die? she previously lived at harrenhal with rhaena targaryen; could dreamfyre be the dragon that alys rivers was reported to hold at harrenhal? rhaena appears to have been the first to be called a "witch queen" at harrenhal; could this have been her plan for dreamfyre all along, a plan dreamfyre understood due to the depth of their bond? i love helaena and rhaena the fuck DOWN on their own so obviously this idea of them having a psychic suffering witch queen bond through the ages via dreamfyre makes me rhaegar levels of emo tbh

#dreamfyre stan posting hours #dreamfyre #helaena targaryen #fire and blood #antiwar themes in asoiaf #based dreamfyre #i'm not team green i'm not team black i'm team dreamfyre tbh #house of the dragon #hotd spoilers kinda maybe #alys rivers #rhaena targaryen #queen rhaena targaryen #asoiaf meta #asoaif meta #fire and blood meta #helaena targaryen meta

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mononijikayu · 2 years ago

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patriarchal butchery against women: history and rhaenyra

‘some accounts say it was ser alfred broome who had hold of her arm, others name the two toms, tanglebeard the father and tangletongue the son. ser marston waters stood witness as well, clad in a white cloak, for king aegon had named him to his kingsguard for his valor. yet neither waters nor any of the other knights and lords present in the yard spoke a word of protest as king aegon ii delivered his half=sister to his dragon.

sunfyre, it is said, did not seem at first to take any interest in the offering, until broome pricked the queen’s breast with his dagger. the smell of blood roused the dragon, who sniffed at her grace, then bathed her in a blast of flame, so suddenly that ser alfred’s cloak caught fire as he leapt away. rhaenyra targaryen had time to raise her head toward the sky and shriek out one last curse upon her half-brother before sunfyre’s jaws closed round her, tearing off her arm and shoulder.'

– rhaenyra overthrown; fire and blood

the profound horror evoked by the tragic demise of rhaenyra targaryen defies comprehension, leaving a profound impact on my emotions. the series of events surrounding her death is almost unimaginable, a harrowing sequence that eludes full understanding. the manner in which she was forcibly restrained, her young son is subdued away from her, bespeaks a brutality beyond words. her trusted allies' betrayal, the seemingly noble and upright men remaining silent witnesses, and the heart-wrenching scene of rhaenyra's final moments, held before a dragon, paints a tableau of unfathomable cruelty.

even when the dragon hesitated to devour her entirely, the violence escalated to such an extent that her wounds bleed profusely, eventually piquing the dragon's interest. the collective gaze fixed on the gruesome sight as the dragon immolated and consumed her, her helpless son held in the grip of men, forced to bear witness to his mother's horrific end.

the entirety of this scene is an unsettling dissonance, a collage of terror that leads one to question whether such a grisly fate could have truly befallen women. the spectacle of violence inflicted with such vehemence seems almost inconceivable when directed towards women. that all of it is a fraction of grrm’s own imagination. unfortunately, the veracity of this account cannot be denied. numerous women throughout both ancient and medieval epochs have been subjected to the barbaric act of execution for various motives.

upon delving into historical accounts, one is confronted with a cathartic realization that this violence appears to be a recurring toll exacted upon women who dared to seek autonomy and agency in their respective eras, regardless of the epoch in question. it is a recurring and undeniable theme, wherein women are invariably thrust into a vortex of unremitting violence, an undeniable and tragic consequence of their aspirations for a more empowered existence. a recurring theme which of course stems from the echoes of patriarchal control–which still continues to this day.

in my previous writings concerning patriarchy and its implications on women's agency, we delve into the prevailing belief held by men throughout history that asserts their innate and superior importance within the community. when viewed through this lens, a multitude of factors emerge to elucidate the systematic erosion of women's authority and agency.

within this context, the fragility inherent in men's perspectives becomes evident, not only in their perception of the external world but also in their self-concept. examining the methods they have historically employed to consolidate exclusive control over authority and agency across the diverse tapestry of human society reveals an underlying fear of losing their dominant position.

patriarchy, deeply ingrained in societal structures, has perpetuated a paradigm where men's inherent superiority has been upheld as an enduring truth. this belief has been reinforced over generations, giving rise to the marginalization and subjugation of women across various cultural and historical contexts. the tenacious grip of patriarchy on social norms and power dynamics has led to the disempowerment of women, often limiting their roles to subservient positions and stripping them of agency.

as we analyze history, we discern that men's efforts to maintain sole authority and agency have been driven by a sense of vulnerability, revealing the delicate nature of their perspectives. the fear of relinquishing control over societal institutions and structures creates a palpable tension that spurs them to employ various mechanisms to safeguard their position. this apprehension stems from the realization that a shift towards a more equitable distribution of authority might lead to a loss of the privileges they have historically enjoyed.

the historical trajectory of men's actions underscores the lengths to which they have gone to preserve their perceived dominance. the mechanisms include the suppression of women's voices, relegating them to roles that reinforce traditional gender norms, and employing socio-cultural constructs that serve to legitimize their position of power. these actions, while aimed at asserting authority, reflect a deep-seated anxiety about the potential consequences of a more inclusive and egalitarian society.

according to jacquelyne campbell in 'misogyny and homicide of women', the fear of women emerged during the primitive times, when the mystery of conception and birth remained an unexplained part of human experience. throughout time, they found a way to cope and that is by trying to establish religious and societal efforts to make that facet of womanhood be a basis for the depreciation of female importance—leading to the subjugation of the female sex.

this then became the foundation of early greek that linked intellectualism, nature and power as inherently traditionally male; a concept which has been spoken in my earlier writings about patriarchal origins. it is because of this established ‘tradition’ that we now then see how this touched men’s imagination, they quickly accepted this concept to authority.

we find this in the explicit nature of both karl marx and friedrich engel’s theories that encompass the thoughts, "first oppressor–oppressed relation, the foundation of all other class and property relations'', which fundamentally means that the idea of an oppressor and the oppressed creates the effect social dynamics of those who have power and those who are deprived of it. the powerful controls and dominates the communities they dwell in terms of social hierarchies, class divisions, wealth, property and ownership patterns.

within the context we have, jacquelyne campbell means to explain that women are essentially being forced into these dynamics because of men’s insecurities driving them into laying the groundwork that prevents women from getting out of these social dynamics that were now designed to be occupied by men for men. as such, men would not have to fear their security being challenged by any sort of self-actualization of women and their own ambition.

just as much, the growth of machismo as a main theme of how men should behave and be in a patriarchal society becomes heavily cemented throughout time. machismo being ingrained in the system cements a way of life that is according to the text, ‘exalts strength and power, demands competition with and superiority over other men, glorifies violence, emphasizes virility, despises gentleness and expressing any emotion except anger and rage, and rigidly defines women as property, sexual objects, and subjects of male domination.’

and because of this growth of machismo and patriarchy side by side, misogyny becomes extremely violent and uncontrollable. because as we mentioned, men hate feeling deprived of authority and agency, even the mere feeling of losing it drives them crazy. or as one of the sources within the text surmises, ‘violence may be the most appropriate way to protect one’s honor, to show courage or conceal fear, especially fear of revealing weakness.’

female activists later coined the term ‘gynocide’ as part of the umbrella of systematic gender specific slaughter directed towards women. gyno is referring to women or females and cide to kill or cut. gynocide as defined by andrea dworkin is ‘the systematic crippling and/or killing of women by men.’ – meaning, that men have for generations created a system by which punishes or even slaughters women if they do not adhere to the status quo that is set by a patriarchal society that does not make room for women to have any sense of equity in the community or agency as a member of community.

this is exactly what happened to rhaenyra, to many other women in the narrative of power. they became victims of men’s uncontrollable fear of not having agency, because women were being given and taking their agency. women taking up space in a male dominated society and making something of their own felt like a threat to the order of things. hence, that anger and that fear that a woman deposes of that system as a whole in one full sweep. we have various women we can lay their own lives and tragedy akin to rhaenyra and her experience of such violence in the system.

one example of gynocide during this era was witch-burning, echoing rhaenyra's fiery demise. this tragedy befell countless women across ancient and medieval societies. the european witch hunts, spanning the late middle ages to the early modern era (15th to 18th centuries), stand as stark evidence. myriad individuals, predominantly women, faced accusations of witchcraft, culminating in trials, incarceration, and execution.

though not all accused witches suffered immolation, burning became a prevailing method of administering punishment to those found guilty of practicing witchcraft. these accusations and trials often derived from superstitions, fear, religious dogma, and societal tensions, rather than tangible evidence of sorcery. much of this bias, which unjustly targeted women, aligns with the gender-based paradigms discussed earlier.

the victims of these trials were usually marginalized figures—widows, elderly women, the impoverished, and those straying from societal norms. pinpointing an exact count of women immolated as witches varies by locale and era. nonetheless, estimates indicate that tens of thousands, including a considerable number of women, lost their lives as a consequence of these witchcraft accusations.

consider margaret aitken, emblematic of the injustices faced. amid the great scottish witch hunt of 1597 during james vi's reign, a period notorious for his treatise against witches linking them with 'ungodliness and the devil,' margaret faced judgment as a witch. coerced by torture and fear, she implicated other women as witches. driven by the dread of retribution from men, margaret unwittingly endangered fellow innocent women, leading to their agonizing execution by immolation. subsequently, margaret herself met the same fate, her coerced words turned against her despite their origin in fear and violence at the hands of men.

a parallel to rhaenyra's mutilation and demise emerges in the suffering of olympias, mother of alexander the great. olympias wielded agency not only as a woman but also in safeguarding her son's rule. mirroring male tactics, she employed violence to secure her interests. as she comprehended her grandson's impending loss of crown and life, olympias took action. thwarted by cassander, once an ally of alexander, who wrested power and orchestrated her defeat.

the steadfast loyalty of alexander's soldiers spared her mutilation, prompting cassander to manipulate those with resentment towards olympias. this culminated in her brutal stoning to death, along with the denial of burial rights. cassander's power consolidation entailed not just olympias' demise, but also the deaths of alexander the great's wife and child—individuals olympias sought to protect.

similarly, hypatia of alexandria, a revered philosopher renowned for her intellect, encountered a parallel fate to rhaenyra. her demise bore shocking brutality. entrapped and stripped, hypatia endured a savage mutilation orchestrated by men threatened by her influence. her eyes gouged, her body dismembered, and her remains desecrated through public display and burning. this atrocity emerged from fears that hypatia's reasoning and wisdom posed a challenge to power structures. her ability to engage with influential figures frustrated those seeking to maintain control, construing her intellect as an obstruction.

such stories, both historical and fictional, resonate with rhaenyra's tragic narrative, illustrating the pervasive patterns of violence and suppression that women have endured throughout history. much like rhaenyra's plight, these stories emerged from the grip of patriarchy that tightly held societies, coercing them to conform or face dire consequences. women often bore the brunt of this challenge, defying norms and striving for a chance at a life beyond being a mere historical footnote. their struggles were driven by the desire to seize agency, to transcend the constraints of their time.

these brave women dared to challenge a system that sought to confine them. they yearned for lives that extended beyond the shadows, desiring recognition and power that was so often denied to them. tragically, their aspirations were often met with brutal resistance, as men, threatened by the perceived erosion of their authority, resorted to oppressive tactics to maintain their control. this underpins the somber essence of women's enduring struggles – a tale that finds its origins in the disheartening attempts to curtail their rights.

these narratives, spanning diverse eras and cultures, intertwine with rhaenyra's story, reinforcing the unfortunate reality that the echoes of history often reverberate in similar patterns. while rhaenyra's narrative is a work of fiction, it continues to encapsulates the essence of the broader theme that resonates through the ages: the fight for agency, equality, and freedom, against the backdrop of entrenched gender biases. the memory lingers of the patriarchal butchery against women and we are still as many before us have, remember the harmony and the tune and proceed to remember and to fight against it.

#asoiaf #fire and blood #house of the dragon #asoiaf meta #fire and blood meta #house of the dragon meta #hotd #hotd meta #rhaenyra targaryen #medieval history #women in history

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