#good person jin zixuan

[wangxianficrecs]

'cause it's worth the sacrifice to finally be strong by MichelleFeather

‘cause it’s worth the sacrifice to finally be strong

by MichelleFeather

G, 4k, Wangxian

Summary: "Why does no one believe you both are in a relationship with each other?" he asked over dinner, Lan Huan not in attendance. Lan Zhan and Wei Ying shared a glance filled with years of that exact same question - along with the rage, anger, sadness, and acceptance that came with such a thought. Wei Ying swirled his drink around with his straw, the ice softly clinking against the clear glass. "They don't believe us. That's the only conclusion we've ever been able to come to Uncle." he responded, hesitantly looking up at the elder. "Uncle, you and the Wen siblings are the only people who believe Wei Ying and I are together, that we are married. Brother has always said we were best friends, soulmates, then immediately offered to arrange dates for me." ------------------------------------------------ Reverse trope: "instead of fake dating, everyone is convinced that you aren't actually dating" Kay's comments: I'm actually really fond of the trope that no one believes it that two people are actually dating, but unfortunately, we have so few stories, which made me even happier to stumble upon this one. Very well done story where no one apart from Lan Qiren and the Wen siblings actually believe that Wangxian are dating. Some of it is due to homophobia, some of it disbelief and my heart aches for them. Luckily, Lan Qiren is actually really supportive in this story and looks out for them, urging them to cut people out of their life who don't accept their relationship even after five years of marriage. Bonus point for surprisingly decent person Jin Zixuan. Excerpt: But this evening in particular, Lan Qiren was supposed to be at his Saturday night book club, he was supposed to not be back until close to 9pm. So, when the front door opened at 7:30pm, and had a straight view into the living room - where Wei Ying was perched on Lan Zhan’s lap, hands tangled in his hair - well, Lan Qiren wasn’t the happiest person in the world. Wei Ying still has nightmares of that moment, of being caught with his shirt hanging off his body, Lan Zhan’s hands palming and cupping his ass through his sweatpants, his own hands alternating between cupping Lan Zhan’s face and tugging him closer by his hair. After the initial anger had subsided, after they had gotten all their clothes back on, Lan Qiren told them to sit at the table - where they would continue to sit in silence for almost 30 minutes. “How long has this been going on?” Wei Ying could feel Lan Zhan’s hand tightly grasping his underneath the table. “Four years today, Uncle.” Wei Ying could tell that Lan Qiren had been expecting a much different answer, perhaps a more recent one, rather than four years. It had almost been as shocking to Wei Ying that they had managed to keep their relationship a secret from everyone for as long as they had. The simple fact that it was Lan Zhan’s uncle that discovered their relationship first seemed like a bad omen to him at the time - not knowing that the man would come to be one of their greatest supporters from there on out.

pov wei wuxian, modern setting, modern no powers, established relationship, good uncle lan qiren, good person jin zixuan, lan xichen/jin guangyao/nie mingjue, 3zun, married lan wangji/wei wuxian, adopted lan sizhui, jiang family bashing, lan xichen tries, homophobia, families of choice, friends to lvoers, supportive lan qiren, marriage

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Hello Madam. Sorry Madam.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[waitineedaname]

Very specific but I'd love Jiang Cheng being Jin Ling's favorite uncle in aro4aro chengqing au and Wei Wuxian being mortally offended

People seemed to think that Jiang Yanli was completely blind to her brothers’ faults. This was not true. She just generally did not think those faults were nearly as bad as people made them out to be. Most of what other people found bothersome about her brothers, she was charmed by because she was nothing if not a doting sister.

Being doting and fond, however, did not mean she was unaware of how annoying her brothers were. In fact, due to regular exposure to the two of them, she was extremely aware of just how annoying they could be.

Case in point: their tendency to make everything into a competition, including the affection of her own son.

“I’m just saying, if anyone is going to be the fun uncle, it’s obviously me,” Wei Wuxian said, shaking a rattle over Jin Ling’s head.

“He’s two,” Jiang Cheng snapped, bouncing Jin Ling on his knee. “Anything that moves and makes noise is fun to him.”

“Well, I move and make the most noise, so.” Wei Wuxian leaned in and started making faces at his nephew. “Right, A-Ling? Right?”

Jin Ling gurgled happily and clapped his hands.

Jiang Yanli sighed and leaned against her husband. She appreciated her brothers taking her son off her hands for a while, but really, they were enough of a handful themselves. “Don’t fight, boys,” she said, shaking her head fondly. “A-Ling loves you both.”

“Yeah, but he loves me most, right shijie?” Wei Wuxian shot her a grin. Jiang Cheng huffed and smacked the back of his head, making Jin Ling shriek happy peals of laughter. She could practically feel Zixuan roll his eyes behind her.

“Please don’t give my son ideas,” he said in the long-suffering tone he tended to adopt when he had to be patient with his brothers-in-law. Yanli appreciated the fragile civility they attempted these days. “A-Ling, no hitting, okay?”

“Unless it’s your da-jiu,” Jiang Cheng added in a loud whisper, “Then you should hit him as hard as you can.” 

“Nooo, A-Ling would never hit me, he’s such a good boy, isn’t he?” Wei Wuxian cooed, tickling Jin Ling’s belly. Jin Ling shrieked with laughter again and one of his flailing fists collided directly with Wei Wuxian’s eye. 

Yanli only barely managed to hide her laugh behind her hand. Jiang Cheng snickered, and Zixuan let out a quiet huff of laughter.

“Ah, it was just an accident!” Wei Wuxian insisted. “He’s going to be a very strong cultivator with quick reflexes someday, I can tell!” And then, because he never learned to leave well enough alone, he said, “We should just ask him. Just because he’s little, that doesn’t mean he can’t answer questions!” He poked Jin Ling in the belly again to get his attention, “A-Ling, who’s your favorite? Da-jiu or jiujiu?”

Technically, Jiang Cheng should be er-jiu, but he got priority as the one who met Jin Ling first and saw him the most often. It couldn’t really be helped; Wei Wuxian was still unofficially banned from Carp Tower due to his inability to stay out of trouble, which meant Jiang Cheng got to visit his nephew on diplomatic visits, but Wei Wuxian only got to see him during their frequent trips to Lotus Pier. That meant Jiang Yanli was fairly certain she knew the answer, even before Jin Ling said it.

“Jiujiu!” he happily cried, reaching up to grab Jiang Cheng’s cheeks. The betrayal on Wei Wuxian’s face was comical, especially compared to the way Jiang Cheng’s face lit up. Yanli felt a little bad for Wei Wuxian’s feelings, but it was worth it to see her typically dour baby brother beam under his nephew’s uncomplicated affection.

“Ah, come here A-Xian,” Yanli said, sitting up so she wasn’t leaning against Zixuan and could instead summon her pouting brother to her side. “Don’t take it to heart, okay? He’s a baby, he doesn’t mean to hurt your feelings.”

“I know, I know, shijie,” Wei Wuxian sighed, but leaned in so she could pet his hair anyway. “You don’t think I would be resentful of a baby, do you?”

The noise Jin Zixuan made behind her made it very clear that he wouldn’t put it past Wei Wuxian to be resentful of a baby. Yanli reached back and pinched his thigh, but otherwise focused on Wei Wuxian. “The next baby we have, I’ll deliver here in Lotus Pier, how about that? Qing-mei can be my midwife, and you can get first dibs on holding the baby. Aside from me and A-Xuan, of course.”

“Promise?” he said, giving her the pleading eyes that always earned him an extra portion of soup. 

“I promise.” She kissed his forehead, and this seemed to improve his mood, though his eyes immediately narrowed in suspicion in Jin Zixuan’s direction. 

“You’re not already having another baby, are you?” he asked. Zixuan coughed awkwardly, and Yanli pinched Wei Wuxian’s cheek this time.

“A-Xian, be nice,” she said, lightly scolding. “We’ll tell you when we know, okay?”

“Okay, shijie,” Wei Wuxian grumbled, still shooting Jin Zixuan judgmental looks. He turned back to Jin Ling, who was being gently tossed in the air by Jiang Cheng. “A-Ling! Do you wanna go down the river and visit A-Yuan?”

“Yuan-ge, Yuan-ge!” Jin Ling happily exclaimed, clapping his hands. His uncles scooped him up and grabbed the bag of diapers and snacks Yanli had brought, bundling him out onto the pier with promises not to drown their beloved nephew in the lake. 

Zixuan let out a tired sigh as soon as they left the room, taking his turn to lean against his wife’s side. “Why are they always this exhausting?” 

Yanli laughed and petted his hair. “Maybe another baby would give them something else to focus on,” she suggested lightly. Zixuan immediately flushed red and hid his face in her shoulder, making her laugh again. 

Yes, her brothers’ antics could be annoying, but they were good uncles. She was very grateful to be able to trust her son in their hands for a few hours.

[lecinea]

My goodness there is a lot of bullshit in the Jiang Cheng tag again.

[jzixuans]

i feel like it’s kind of obvious by now that jin zixuan is my favourite character but when i say that if i think about lan jingyi or wen ning for too long i start spinning in circles so hard that i begin to levitate

[qiu-yan]

wei wuxian vs. pragmatism: what MDZS intends to say about righteousness

copy/pasting most of my rather bitchy reply into its own individual post because i think it deserves to stand on its own.

so i think we can all agree that MXTX intends for us to read MDZS and conclude that wei wuxian is ultimately a deeply heroic and righteous person. whether you as the reader agree with this assessment of wei wuxian's moral character is another question entirely, but at the very least it is fairly obvious to all of us that MXTX intends for us to read him as a good person.

so why does MXTX call wei wuxian a good person? what aspects of his character and which of his choices make him a good person? what moral framework and what definition of morality does MXTX employ in order to call wei wuxian a good person?

i posit that MXTX argues that wei wuxian is heroic precisely because he is not pragmatic - because he adheres to his moral ideals despite the consequences, and because he did not make moral sacrifices at critical junctures of his life. the first half of this post will argue that wei wuxian is not pragmatic. the second half of this post will argue that this is exactly why wei wuxian is heroic, and that the moral framework employed by MXTX is deeply idealistic instead.

so let's begin.

let's start by establishing two things.

first: what MXTX argues about morality through the narrative of MDZS and the reader's own beliefs about morality are two different things. me saying "MDZS argues that xyz is righteousness" and me saying "i think xyz is righteousness" are two different statements. the following analysis is concerned not with what i myself consider to be righteous, but rather what MXTX argues through MDZS is righteous.

second: wei wuxian is not pragmatic.

what does it mean to be pragmatic? unless we are speaking about the school of philosophy specifically (which i am not here), being pragmatic means being grounded in reality and focused on practical outcomes. it means being result-oriented and considering the consequences of your actions before you act; it means acting only after you have considered the potential consequences of all possible courses of action and have then decided which outcomes are acceptable. being pragmatic also means recognizing when achieving everything you want is impossible. and, in such situations, being pragmatic thus entails compromising to achieve a desired outcome, even if that means you don’t get everything they want. to put it in edgier terms, being pragmatic means being able to make moral sacrifices.

an idealistic person attempts the impossible. a pragmatic person recognizes when something truly is impossible.

wei wuxian is not pragmatic.

first, wei wuxian is not someone who carefully considers the consequences of his actions before he acts. in fact, he displays a startling lack of consideration for consequences. it repeatedly falls upon other characters to either try (and fail) to hold him back.

when wei wuxian punched jin zixuan for insulting first jiang yanli and then jiang cheng, did he consider that jiang fengmian and jin guangshan might then dissolve the betrothal, and that jiang yanli might have wanted to make a decision regarding that on her own? no. he just punched jin zixuan because he was mad that jin zixuan had insulted two people he loved.

when wen chao threatened mianmian, and lan wangji and jin zixuan stood up for mianmian, and then wei wuxian stood up for them by holding wen chao hostage in turn - did he consider that there might be consequences for humiliating and threatening the life of the son of a warmongering great sect leader who has already proven capable of attacking other sects? no. did he stop and think "alright, wen ruohan has already attacked the cloud recesses, which proves that he's willing to wage war against the other sects. threatening the son of a sect leader is an easy way to earn any sect leader's ire, and since i'm the first disciple of the jiang sect, this puts not just me but the entire jiang sect on wen ruohan's shitlist"? no. it would be one thing if wei wuxian weighed this possibility and then decided that rescuing an innocent girl and the people who defended her was more important was worth the risk - that would show that he considered the consequences and then made his choice. but the thought simply never entered his mind. he acted simply because he wanted to save mianmian, jin zixuan, and lan wangji from the wens; he did not think beyond that.

when wei wuxian busted the wen remnants out of the qiongqi pass labor camp, did he have a clear plan as to how he was going to weather the political fallout? did he have a plan more detailed than "live quietly in the burial mounds until everyone forgets about us"? no. when jiang cheng challenged him as to how he was going to survive the situation, he did not in fact offer anything more concrete than "we'll just wait for everyone else to forget about us." he blustered about being a once-in-a-generation genius who could accomplish the impossible, but he provided no actual plan as to how he was going to do it. this leads me to conclude that wei wuxian did not in fact have a long-term plan for handling the consequences when he went ham at the qiongqi pass camp - that, instead of weighing the consequences and then making his decision, he instead decided immediately that this was something he had to do, consequences be damned.

and then - on top of this - all of his following actions then point in the exact opposite direction of his stated plan of waiting for everyone to forget about them. because instead of doing anything to fade into the background, everything wei wuxian did instead just convinced the jianghu he was an intolerable threat.

and this was not a sustainable strategy.

one thing i really appreciate about MXTX is that she does not make the rest of the jianghu into one-dimensional villainous morons. it's quite easy for lazy writers who want a persecution plotline to have the rest of the story's society magically start hating on the protagonist for no good reason, to make every background character in the story's world a three-braincell moron. but MXTX is not that author. it speaks to MXTX's skill as an author that, from the perspective of the rest of the jianghu, fearing wei wuxian as a mortal threat was an entirely reasonable conclusion for them to come to.

first, the gentry's most recent direct interaction with wei wuxian during this time period is him threatening to kill all of them. when jin zixun doesn't give him the information he wants, wei wuxian straight up says: "if i want to kill everyone here, who can stop me? who dares stop me?" this is a threat! and - surprise - threatening to kill people naturally makes people think that you want to kill them! 

next, wei wuxian refined wen ning's dead body into the first sentient fierce corpse in history, and also the strongest fierce corpse in living memory - and then took wen ning with him on night-hunts. that's where the reputation of "the yiling patriarch and his ghost general" comes from. this very naturally made the rest of society fear him even more, because now the guy who has just recently threatened to kill you has demonstrated even more of the power to easily do so! the unparalleled power to do so, which no one else possesses and it would be very hard for anyone else to counter! add in the fact that wei wuxian's activities were also attracting prospective disciples - people gathering outside the burial mounds because they wanted to learn demonic cultivation - and naturally the public is even more frightened, because now it looks like the guy who threatened to kill all of you is also gathering the political force to do so!

the public is incorrect about wei wuxian's intentions, of course. but what does wei wuxian do to correct these misconceptions? to rehabilitate his public image, because now his public image has the life of not just himself but also all the wen remnants under his protection riding on it? to prove to the public that he isn't an active threat to their lives - that he does not seek to murder them all in their beds - that it is safe for them to allow him to live, and that they can in fact survive if they don't kill him?

nothing.

it would be one thing if the story mentioned how wei wuxian tried to correct the malicious rumors about himself and failed. but that is not what happened. what happened is that wei wuxian sat on his corpse mountain and let everyone else say what they wanted to say. and when he left his corpse mountain, it was to bring his one-of-a-kind unparalleled sentient fierce corpse with him on night-hunts, which of course just fanned the flames of the rumors instead. he doesn't even tell the prospective pupils camped on his front door to fuck off - he just sneaks in through the back door.

this is not pragmatic behavior. though you can argue that wei wuxian's strategy here was to become so powerful and so scary that no one would dare try to fight him, anyone with a brain can tell you that this is not a sustainable solution in the long-term. first, if you want to use threats to keep someone from attacking you, you also need to promise stability - you need to give people the reassurance that if they don't start shit with you, then you'll leave them alone too. if you drive the "threat" factor too high, as wei wuxian did, you instead end up convincing people that if they do nothing you'll kill them anyways - that they have no choice but to kill you if they want to survive.

second, if you want to use threats to keep someone from attacking you, you also need to prepare for the inevitability that, if someone does end up getting hurt, everyone will blame you first and no one will want to hear your side of the story. after all, if someone gets hurt, then the first suspect everyone looks towards will be the guy who's been consistently saying "i'm strong enough to hurt you! i'm strong enough to hurt you! don't start shit with me because i'm strong enough to end you!" for the past few months. this is basic common sense. and yes, the society of MDZS is unfair - wei wuxian deserved a proper trial and investigation after the death of jin zixuan. but the fact that society is unfair is something a pragmatic person would have recognized and planned for.

wei wuxian did not recognize and plan for this reality. even after he accidentally kills jin zixuan, wei wuxian still insists that if only the jianghu investigates jin zixun's hundred holes curse, they'll see that wei wuxian didn't cast the hundred holes curse, they'll see that there was more scheming going on, etc etc. wen qing has to directly spell out for him that, at this point, society no longer cares about the truth of the matter. it seems that wei wuxian was actually oddly idealistic about the true nature of his society all the way until the very end.

all of this leads me to conclude that, when wei wuxian busted the wen remnants out of the qiongqi pass labor camp, he did so without considering the consequences of his actions. he assumed that he could improvise and weasel his way out of this situation, as he's always done in the past with his typical genius - only this time, he was wrong.

wei wuxian acts without considering the consequences of his actions. he does not make a decision only after carefully deliberating over all of the potential outcomes - not at all. instead, he acts in the moment - not out of any rational consideration of potential outcomes, but rather because it is simply something he must do. this by definition makes him a deeply unpragmatic person.

to put it into more familiar terms, for wei wuxian, the righteousness of an action comes not from its consequences, but are rather inherent to the action itself. even if he were doomed to fail, he could not give up on the wen remnants.

second, at critical junctures, wei wuxian is unable to make moral sacrifices. to be pragmatic is to know when you have to sacrifice: to know when, in order to achieve the most inalienable of your goals, you have to give up on some of your other goals. this is something wei wuxian is consistently unable to do.

of course, when it comes to his own wellbeing, wei wuxian is all too willing to sacrifice. he'll carve out any number of his internal organs to save those he loves. but this honestly speaks less to wei wuxian's moral framework and more to his lack of self-worth from a troubled upbringing.

because, when it comes to any moral cause, wei wuxian is entirely unable to sacrifice anything, even if being unable to sacrifice entails more negative consequences. wei wuxian could not sacrifice mianmian, jin zixuan, and lan wangji to wen chao and his goons, so he took action and took wen chao hostage himself. to sit back and do nothing as wen chao threatened the lives of those three was simply unthinkable for him - even if it meant taking a course of action that put yunmeng jiang in danger.

wei wuxian's relationship with jiang cheng deteriorated because jiang cheng did not know about the golden core transfer: because jiang cheng did not know that wei wuxian could no longer cultivate, from jiang cheng's point of view, it looked like wei wuxian was just refusing to help out and fulfill his promises for kicks. wei wuxian could have made things a lot easier for himself and also any wen remnants he chose to rescue had he simply told jiang cheng the truth - but he knew that finding out the truth of the golden core transfer would make jiang cheng miserable, and [jiang cheng's happiness] was not something he was willing to sacrifice.

wei wuxian's single most prominent moral decision is his refusal to allow the wen remnants to be sacrificed. anyone with a shred of political sense had to know that rescuing the wen remnants and then protecting them would be near impossible - that it entails making an enemy of the jin, and due to the jins' power, the entire jianghu. wei wuxian himself knew this; he is no moron. wei wuxian also had no long-term plan, no allies, and significantly less power than the rest of the world believed. yet, despite this all, he acted anyways, because he could not let the wen remnants be sacrificed.

the wen remnants wei wuxian rescued from the qiongqi pass labor camp included both regular civilians and cultivators. perhaps wei wuxian could have negotiated a proper release for the non-cultivating civilians, such as granny wen and a-yuan, had he chosen to give up on the cultivators. but - the question of whether this would have worked or not aside - this was not a sacrifice wei wuxian would be willing to make.

nor could wei wuxian sacrifice the safety of yunmeng jiang. i am firmly of the belief that, had yunmeng jiang formally stood by wei wuxian's side after wei wuxian attacked the jin-run labor camp, lanling jin would have eventually declared war on yunmeng jiang, and yunmeng jiang's would inevitably be destroyed. both wei wuxian and jiang cheng understood this as well - which is why wei wuxian told jiang cheng to let him go.

(you can argue - successfully - that wei wuxian did in fact sacrifice [his obligations to yunmeng jiang and his promise to jiang cheng] by leaving yunmeng jiang to protect the wen remnants. this is true. but i think that - from wei wuxian's point of view - this was not much of a sacrifice, because due to wei wuxian lacking a golden core, he already viewed himself as mostly useless to yunmeng jiang. so him leaving - in his view - is not really that much of a loss for yunmeng jiang.)

wei wuxian promised wen qing that he would return wen ning's consciousness to his corpse. when wei wuxian made this promise, he had no idea if he could actually pull it off or not. but then he did - and, in the process, created the most dangerous weapon the jianghu had seen in living memory. wen ning specifically, or moreso wei wuxian's inability to control him, leads to so much of wei wuxian's eventual downfall: wei wuxian loses control of wen ning and accidentally kills jin zixuan; when wen ning goes to turn himself in at jinlintai, he ends up going berserk again and killing another 10-20 jin and lan cultivators, which leads to the nightless city pledge conference. frankly, wei wuxian could have avoided a lot of trouble - or at the very least, a lot of the public's fear - had he not raised wen ning from the dead. it's not like he'd be completely defenseless without wen ning, either. but wei wuxian promised wen qing he would resurrect wen ning - and he could not sacrifice his promise to wen qing because of what wen qing had already done for him.

a pragmatic person is able to make sacrifices, including moral ones. at the very least, a pragmatic person recognizes when sacrifice is inevitable, when all paths lead to something being lost. a pragmatic person, put in the trolley problem, would recognize that there were only two options and that both options involve sacrifice: either he must kill one person, or he must allow five people to die. there is no path forwards in which all six people live.

wei wuxian is unable to make moral sacrifices. he clings on to all of these moral causes, all of these promises and obligations, and it is precisely because he attempts to hold onto all of them that he ends up losing everything. to reuse the previous example, wei wuxian in the trolley problem tried to save all six people because he could not accept any of the sacrifices made inevitable by the trolley problem.

to put this all together - wei wuxian is not a pragmatic person. he makes decisions with his gut, not his head - he does not consider the consequences of his actions before he acts. nor is wei wuxian able to make sacrifices - even necessary ones in order to avoid greater tragedies.

but. none of this means that wei wuxian is not a deeply heroic person. rather, to do what you believe to be righteous and attempt to live up to your ideals despite the consequences is exactly what MXTX lauds as moral. and to be unable to make a moral sacrifice when everyone else in your society easily does so is in fact deeply heroic.

it is precisely because wei wuxian is not pragmatic that MXTX declares him a hero.

some people, including myself, favor a moral framework that centers pragmatism and reason as virtues. to us, the ideal moral character is someone who makes decisions based on reason and not emotion, who considers the potential consequences of every course of action before making a decision, and who then, based on these inferred future consequences, uses reason to deduce which of all of the possible outcomes is the most preferable.

but this does not in fact describe wei wuxian, nor is this how wei wuxian views ethics. and to be honest, i don't think this is how MXTX views ethics either.

in all three of her stories, MXTX repeatedly comes down harder on the characters who make pragmatic decisions, the characters who are willing to sacrifice. in fact, killing sunshot soldiers while acting as wen ruohan's spy, and then killing nie mingjue's men in order to ensure a chance at killing wen ruohan and saving nie mingjue, was the pragmatic thing for meng yao to do, because that was the least bloody path forwards towards a sunshot victory over qishan wen. in fact, cutting ties with wei wuxian after he attacked the jin-run qiongqi pass labor camp was the pragmatic thing for jiang cheng to do, because it was the only path forward that did not put yunmeng jiang, his first and foremost responsibility, in the line of fire. and yet (though the situation is less clear with jin guangyao), MDZS as a narrative criticizes both jin guangyao and jiang cheng for these decisions - because, to MDZS, righteousness does not lie in pragmatism.

(this is a statement i personally disagree with. but we are here to discuss what MDZS wants to say about pragmatism and righteousness, not what i want to say about pragmatism and righteousness.)

by contrast, the one single act for which deeply controversial jiang cheng is ultimately lauded for in the narrative is also his single least pragmatic, most emotional act. the one single act of jiang cheng's that MDZS does not criticize is when, after the fall of lotus pier, jiang cheng ran out from his hiding spot to distract the wen soldiers from seeing wei wuxian. from a filial, duty-based point of view, this was a deeply stupid and unpragmatic course of action: jiang cheng's first and foremost duty, as the sole surviving jiang and new sect leader jiang, was to survive, rebuild his sect, and avenge his parents. from a consequentialist point of view, this impulsive choice is also what led to the domino-fall of tragedy that followed, since jiang cheng then got captured and had his golden core melted, which then led to everything else. yet this stupid, unpragmatic, and impulsive decision is ultimately the one act MDZS considers to be jiang cheng's single most heroic.

the key as to what MDZS considers to be heroic, what it considers to be righteous, lies in the jiang family motto: 明知不可而为之, attempt the impossible. this line, taken from the analects of confucius, can be considered to be a deeply deontological ideal. i find this twitter thread (warning to my followers: does kind of dunk on JC) to be rather helpful in elucidating this line's meaning. 

to attempt the impossible, to try what shouldn't be tried. "ask yourself not whether you can do it, but whether you should...consider not the result but rather the journey - have a clear conscience regardless of outcome." in other words, what matters is less whether you succeeded or failed, or what sort of outcome your actions brought about - what matters is that you tried. what matters is that, in the face of overwhelming odds, you tried to do what you think is right. and even if you end up failing - even if everyone you sought to protect ended up dying - the fact that you tried still has moral weight.

this is why it was righteous of wei wuxian to save the wen remnants - even though the ultimate consequences of that decision were overall negative, even though everyone wei wuxian tried to protect died. in fact, if wei wuxian had died immediately - if he had been shot down by jin archers at the qiongqi pass labor camp the moment he came within their range - if he had died before any wen in the labor camp realized someone wanted to save him - he would still be a righteous person. because, for MDZS, what makes an action righteous is not its consequences. for MDZS, what makes a person righteous is not what impact their actions have on the world, but rather that they have the sort of moral character that leads them to never give up on their ideals.

wei wuxian does not consider the consequences of his actions before he acts. or, should i say - wei wuxian makes decisions despite their consequences, because despite the consequences there are simply some moral causes he simply cannot give up on. wei wuxian did not save the wen remnants because it was pragmatic to do so. it was in fact deeply unpragmatic to do so. no - wei wuxian saved the wen remnants without a concrete long-term plan, without having thought through anything beforehand, with the knowledge of how weak he was in reality - because he could not give up on the wen remnants, consequences be damned.

to have some moral causes you simply cannot give up on, no matter the consequences - to MXTX, is deeply heroic. in this sense, MXTX's moral philosophy is not pragmatic at all, because to be pragmatic is to be concerned with practical consequences. instead, both wei wuxian and MXTX herself are deeply idealistic, because what matters to them are ideals and principles that extend beyond consequence.

as the linked twitter thread notes, this is why MXTX waits until the very end of the book to reveal that wen yuan, now lan sizhui, lived. this is why wangxian only meet mianmian and her family at the end of the book. this is why all of the cumulative positive impacts of wei wuxian's resurrection -  jin ling forgiving wei wuxian, jin guangyao, and wen ning, for one - are kept to the end of the story: because MDZS needs to move away from the consequentialist argument. MDZS needs to establish that wei wuxian's righteousness is separate from the impact of his actions: that wei wuxian isn't righteous merely because his actions had a positive impact for which others can thank him, but rather because the actions he undertook were inherently righteous on their own. that even if none of these positive impacts existed - if wen yuan had also died, if mianmian hadn't made it - then wei wuxian's choices would still be moral.

this is also why MDZS ultimately comes down harder on characters like jiang cheng and jin guangyao, even though a more results-oriented moral framework would instead laud such characters. both jiang cheng and jin guangyao are deeply pragmatic characters: they put concrete results before abstract moral ideals, and they're willing to compromise on their ideals in order to achieve better results. i am a JC stan and a jiggy apologist because of these exact traits. but MDZS is a narrative that criticizes such pragmatism and instead holds up wei wuxian's idealism as a moral ideal - so, in order to advance its themes, the MDZS narrative ends up criticizing both jiang cheng and jin guangyao.

ultimately, this idealism - this criticism of pragmatism - lies at the heart of MDZS's themes. wei wuxian's righteousness is directly connected to the fact that he is not pragmatic. the fact that wei wuxian makes moral decisions despite the consequences, and that he is unable to sacrifice any moral cause - is all part of what makes him at once deeply unpragmatic and deeply heroic.

---

you see, the funny thing here is that i personally disagree with this theme. as i've said before, i'm a utilitarian. to me, the morality of an action does in fact arise from its consequences; to me, someone who compromises on their ideals to achieve better results is preferable to someone who adheres to all of their ideals and then loses everything. the character i consider to have had the greatest positive impact on this story's world is jin guangyao. the character i consider to have most dutifully fulfilled his obligations is jiang cheng.

therefore, i disagree with basically everything i wrote up there about "trying": i think that if you try to do the right thing, fail epically, and in the process of your failure get a bunch of other people killed as well, the fact that you failed this badly does in fact matter quite a bit. the bulk of my more haterish posts are born from this fundamental disagreement with what MDZS posits is righteousness.

however. as a reader i must recognize that [what i consider to be moral] and [what the author of this story considers to be moral] are two different things. my own moral philosophy may be heavily results-oriented, but MXTX's is much less so. therefore, regardless of what i think of wei wuxian, i conclude that MXTX ultimately intends for us to read wei wuxian as a heroic figure for the exact reasons i gave above - and that fact must then inform every analysis of MDZS i write.

[least-carpet]

Thoughts about jl and jc relationship? I love them but their relationship is criticized a lot, I would love to hear your thoughts

Hi, anon! Very belatedly, here is an answer!

They love each other and Jin Ling is very secure in that love. It is very evident to me—and to Jin Ling himself—that Jiang Cheng loves Jin Ling and would die for him. Jin Ling trusts and relies on Jiang Cheng, and scoffs at the idea that his uncle has ever hit him, in a cultural context where corporal punishment is not unusual. Jin Ling goes to Jiang Cheng when he's crying. Jin Ling pushes back at Jiang Cheng, goes around him, and talks back to him fearlessly, with a sort of bratty entitlement rather than fearful defiance. This is not something a kid who is afraid of their guardian does. This is not something Jiang Cheng would have done with his own parents!

Jiang Cheng did a better job than his parents did with him. You might not personally want Jiang Cheng as a parent, but contrast him against his own soft-spoken father: I don't think Jin Ling would ever say that Jiang Cheng just didn't like him, or think to himself that Jiang Cheng wouldn't show up to save him. Jin Ling is way more secure in Jiang Cheng's affection for him than Jiang Cheng ever was when it came to Jiang Fengmian, and I don't think that's by accident. I think that's something that Jiang Cheng probably worked hard for. It is notable that Jiang Cheng, Jin Ling's maternal uncle, showed up for Jin Ling so consistently that Jin Ling has more trust in him than Jiang Cheng had in his own parents, despite being, like, twenty and running a sect by himself.

Jin Ling looks up to Jiang Cheng. Jin Ling, I think, patterns his behaviour after a couple of ideals. One of them I think, is an image of his father as a young and adventurous hero— young war hero Jin Zixuan, one of the best archers in his generation. (Also initially kind of a twerp with bad social skills, but Jin Ling doesn't know that.) And the other, I think, is Jiang Cheng. (He also very obviously cares for and admires Jin Guangyao, but I don't think he takes him as a model in the same way?) So Jiang Cheng is also important to Jin Ling as a role model. And why wouldn't he be? He's really good at a very hard job. (He's also, like, emotionally damaged from the war and its fallout, but realistically, a lot of the adults around Jin Ling would also be like that to some degree, especially in the Jiang sect.)

Jin Ling expresses care the way Jiang Cheng does, and that helps them understand and trust each other. Jin Ling also expresses his love in the same way that Jiang Cheng expresses his love: through defending the people he cares about. We see him do it when Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji want to enter Jin Guangyao's rooms, and again when Jiang Cheng is exhausted at the second siege of the Burial Mounds (Jin Ling just fucking scooping up Jiujiu and carrying him to safety remains hilarious to me). The scene where he thinks he hears Lan Sizhui say something about a ghost and he pops out and offers to kill the ghost for him also comes to mind. That's how you express affection if you're Jin Ling! He's going to put his foot in his mouth but if somebody threatens you, he's ready to go! Does this remind you of... anyone... like maybe Jiang Cheng, Mr. "Knife Mouth, Tofu Heart."

Jin Ling is definitely a little jerk sometimes, but I don't think it's fair to totally blame that on Jiang Cheng. Jin Ling's bad behaviour is often chalked up to Jiang Cheng being a bad guardian, but he's not the only influence at play: Jin Ling is at a terrible age. He's trying to individuate. He's at the centre of a lot of scrutiny because of his position, and potentially also danger. He's isolated and bullied in his home sect because he's an orphan, which, like, what the fuck. He splits time between two sects with wildly different philosophies and priorities, and probably gets a lot of conflicting messages about what's important and how he should act. His guardians have different parenting styles and priorities, and are themselves under a lot of scrutiny. People gossip about him, his dead parents, his live uncles—really viciously about Jin Guangyao— and probably his dead cousin, too. I would also probably be a very confused and angry teenager in those circumstances! Him acting out is not very surprising!

Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng are under a lot of stress during MDZS, and the way they relate to each other reflects that. Part of growing up is finding out your parents are people with, like, human frailties and their own trauma. Jin Ling's guardians have a LOT of human frailties and a LOT of trauma, and he finds out about it in detail during MDZS, in some pretty ugly ways. (We're shown that Jiang Cheng loves Jin Ling enough to shield him with his own body and that Jin Ling is comforted by Jiang Cheng's presence when he cries, but we also see Jiang Cheng give Jin Ling a pretty hard smack while he's freaking out in Guanyin Temple! Not good, although—based on what Jin Ling previously stated—not a usual behaviour from Jiang Cheng.) Despite this, I do think both Jiang Cheng and Jin Guangyao sincerely loved and tried to raise Jin Ling well. And they didn't do so bad! He's a snobby little brat with a mean mouth but he's also courageous, protective, empathetic, and willing to re-evaluate his beliefs when he's presented with new information!

Basically, I just think that you can be a flawed and harsh person and still love your kid enough that they turn out OK. Jin Ling's not perfect, by any means. But I think he's going to grow up into a pretty impressive adult, and I think no small part of that is because Jiang Cheng loves him, so, so much. (I also think that not all parental figures are great matches for every kid, but, like, these two just really get each other. Scorpio2scorpio communication.)

TL;DR I love them, they love each other, it's definitely not a perfect relationship and I understand why people react in a negative way to the thought of Jiang Cheng in a parental role (although I also think it's a mistake to assume that he parents like he was parented).

[shanastoryteller]

Happy holidays! Lady mo please?

a continuation of 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59

Jiang Yanli does not often feel old. Her golden core does not keep her eternally young like it does her brother, does not prevent the more persistent illnesses from plaguing her, but it does east the aches and pains non cultivators her age often complain of, does keep her skin youthful without the aid of strange poultices and she’ll probably never need dyes to keep her hair dark. But she feels old now, watching Xuanyu and Lan Wangji fumble around one another, watching her struggle for the affection of a husband who might care for her, but does not treat her with care.

At least by the time she married Zixuan, he’d told her that he loved her.

 “What was all the commotion about?” Zixuan asks, arms encircling her waist as he tugs her back against his chest now that they’re back in their own quarters.

“Your cousin got drunk and pissed off the wrong people. Again.”

He huffs, his breath warm against her neck. “Yanli. You know that’s not what I’m talking about. I know A-Yao thinks I’m stupid, but even I notice servants running about and clan leaders and their wives going missing. Especially when one of them is mine.”

“A-Yao doesn’t think you’re stupid,” Jiang Yanli says, even though he kind of does. He thinks most people are stupid and Zixuan has at least grown out of taking it personally. That doesn’t mean she has to rub it in. “Xuanyu was just – a little upset. About things.”

“Lan Xichen likes her. Lan Wangji’s kid adores her. And we all saw what Lan Wangji thinks,” he says. Defending is also not the same thing as caring, but she doesn’t say that. “A-Yao even calls her our sister. Do you remember how long it took him to call me brother? It seems like it’s going well.”

If it had gone a little less well, she’d be less distraught.

Jiang Yanli is debating how much she can say without revealing Xuanyu’s pregnancy – enough people know that it won’t stay a secret for long, but Zixuan is terrible at faking surprise – when there’s a loud, frantic knocking at their door.

Zixuan frowns and goes to open the door.

“Fuck off,” slurs a familiar, beloved voice.

Jiang Yanli hides a smile and goes to stand next to her husband.

A-Cheng is standing there, sort of, considering he’s mostly being supported but a long-suffering Li Jun. “Meimei said she won’t deal with him anymore.”

“Ah,” Zixuan says, already resigned.

A-Cheng stumbles forward, grabbing her wrist and tugging her towards the table. He blearily glares at Zixuan. “Go away.”

He sighs, leaning down to kiss her and then saying, “I suppose I’ll be in a guest room.” He makes a face, remembering that the tower is full of foreign disciples. “Somewhere.”

He’s going to end up sleeping in their son’s room and A-Ling is going to complain about it. Loudly.

“Good night,” she says, barely keeping from laughing as she closes the door on Li Jun side eyeing Zixuan. Her sect has never completely forgiven Zixuan for being a teenage boy, not matter that she’s spent over a decade in the Jin rather than the Jiang.

She lets A-Cheng pull her down beside him at the table, leaning his head on his arm while he stares at her. She pours him a cup of water that she hopes he’ll drink. “Are you all out of sorts because of Xuanyu too?”

His face goes blank then it creases and he’s turns to hide it in the bend of his elbow.

With the first stirrings of genuine alarm, Jiang Yanli realizes he’s crying.

“A-Cheng? A-Cheng, what’s wrong?” she asks, putter her arm over his back and pulling him into her side like she used to when they were kids.

The words come out muffled, but he says, “I hate him. How could he – I hate him.” Then, quieter, in a tone that doesn’t match the words at all, “I hate him.”

She runs through everyone who’s here, every cultivator she saw A-Cheng speak to, but it’s a fool’s errand. No one gets to him like this. No one but –

“Wei Wuxian came back.”

[mxtxfanatic]

I would also like the mdzs fandom to stop inventing turmoil between Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli just because Jiang Fengmian had a strained relationship with Jiang Cheng. There’s nothing to say that the father-daughter duo had issues, that Jiang Fengmian was neglectful (to either of them, tbh), or that he was indifferent to his daughter's presence. You feeling like Jiang Yanli is disappeared into the background of her family life because she, like her father, doesn't have a lot of scenes is not supported by the canon. While we don’t get a lot of interactions between them (because there is literally no plot or conflict to highlight), what we do get is Jiang Fengmian sticking up for his daughter and terminating a marriage contract that his abusive wife set up, something even Jin Guangshan was afraid to do:

[Jiang Fengmian] told Jin Guangshan, “The engagement was originally made at the insistence of Ah-Li’s mother. I never agreed with it. Given what happened today, it seems both sides aren’t very fond of each other, so it’s best not to force the issue.” Startled, Jin Guangshan hesitated a bit. Regardless of the situation, ending an engagement with a member of another Great Clan was never a good thing. “What do children understand? Let them fight. Fengmian-xiong, we need not take notice.” “Jin-xiong, though we can help them arrange a marriage, we can’t live the marriage for them. In the end, they are the ones who will spend their lives together.” This marriage business wasn’t Jin Guangshan’s idea in the first place either. From the perspective of consolidating power through a marriage alliance, the Yunmeng Jiang Clan would not be his first choice, nor was it the best choice. The engagement had happened only because he was perpetually afraid of opposing his wife. But in any case, since the Jiang Clan had brought it up of their own accord, and Jin Clan was on the male side of the arrangement and thus had fewer things to be concerned about, it was not necessary to remain entangled. Besides, he knew Jin Zixuan wasn’t happy with having Jiang Yanli as his fiancée. After giving it serious consideration, Jin Guangshan found his backbone and he agreed.

—Chapt. 18: Elegance VIII, fanyiyi

We get him hand-making kites with her to decorate for Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, and the rest of the disciples to play with:

Back when Wei Wuxian lived at Lotus Pier, he had played the kite shooting game with the disciples of the Jiang Clan and had placed first many times. ... Jiang Fengmian had constructed the frame himself and Jiang Yanli had drawn the design. Thus, whenever Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng had taken their kites out to compete, they had felt a kind of pride.

—Chapt. 32: Morning Dew V, fanyiyi

We get them having family dinners often enough that Wei Wuxian seems worried that he would miss one right before the Wen show up to Lotus Pier:

Wei WuXian asked, “Uncle Jiang went out so early in the morning —why hasn’t he come back yet? Would he make it in time for dinner?”

—Chapt. 57: Poisons, exr

We get him having no qualms with Jiang Yanli's hobbies such as cooking, even seems eager to partake in her creations—if we assume he hasn't before:

With a smile, Jiang YanLi wiped Wei WuXian’s mouth and chin, and walked happily out with the bowl in her hands. Jiang FengMian sat down where she had been sitting. Glancing at the porcelain jar, he seemed as if he wanted to taste it as well, but the bowl had already been taken away by Jiang YanLi.

—Chapt. 56: Poisons, exr

The reason why Jiang Cheng thinks his father hates him is because he takes any whiff of disapproval from his father to mean hatred, a trait he picked up from and that is nourished by his mother's own insistence that Jiang Fengmian "must" hate her son for being like her:

The founder of the YunmengJiang Sect, Jiang Chi, was born a rogue cultivator. The ways of the sect were honest and unrestrained. Madam Yu’s manners were the exact opposite. And, both Jiang Cheng’s looks and personality took after his mother. He hadn’t ever been to Jiang FengMian’s liking. Since birth, he taught him in many ways, yet he still couldn’t change, which was why Jiang FengMian had always seemed as though he didn’t favor him too much.

—Chapt. 56: Poisons, exr

The founding father of the Jiang Clan of Yunmeng, Jiang Chi, came from a knight-errant background. The family was exuberant, honest, magnanimous, and carefree in its ways —all of which were in complete opposition to Madam Yu’s spirit. Jiang Cheng took after his mother in looks and personality, which had never been to Jiang Fengmian’s liking. He had tried to educate Jiang Cheng in a myriad of ways, but it had all been for naught. This was why it always appeared as though he didn’t favor his son.

—Volume 3, Chapt. 12: Sandu: The Three Poisons, 7seas

Notice how it doesn't say that Jiang Cheng, himself, was never to Jiang Fengmian's liking, but that Madam Yu and her personality type that Jiang Cheng inherited was never to his liking, and it only "seemed/appeared" that Jiang Fengmian did not favor his son because he spent a lot of time trying to correct Jiang Cheng's bad habits, something Jiang Cheng resented. Notice how it also does not say that Jiang Fengmian avoided or ignored his son. In fact, we are told that he tried different ways to teach Jiang Cheng, a futile action we see him still committed to even up to the fall of Lotus Pier. Jiang Fengmian never gave up on his son. Jiang Cheng gave up on himself as Jiang Fengmian's son. None of that has to do with how the Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli interacted in life nor how Jiang Yanli felt about her parents in death, still visiting their tablets regularly to clean and talk to them:

Jiang YanLi was kneeling in the ancestral hall. She cleaned her parents’ memorial tablets as she whispered. Wei WuXian poked his head inside, “Shijie? Talking to Uncle Jiang and Madam Yu again?”

—Chapt. 71: Departure, exr

To say that Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father simply because Jiang Cheng is more comfortable believing his mother’s lies than understanding that unconditional love does not mean unconditional tolerance for poor behavior does Jiang Fengmian’s character a disservice. To say that Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father to Jiang Yanli based on Madam Yu and Jiang Cheng’s own fantasies of victimhood is just an extra unnecessary lie to give credence to an idea that the story proves untrue. At worst, Jiang Fengmian was a man reserved in physical displays of affection that could have stood to hug his son more if that was what Jiang Cheng truly wanted. But if we are being truthful, Jiang Fengmian's just a regular fucking guy juggling raising kids and leading a clan with deterring his abusive wife from turning his home into a battlefield any time she deigns to show her face. Whatever issue you think Jiang Yanli and Jiang Cheng should have with their upbringing, the locus of the problem is named Yu Ziyuan, not Jiang Fengmian.

[whetstonefires]

Underrated element of where Jiang Cheng is re: wwx after everything is that they always had a sort of dual relationship. Two different relationship premises, superimposed on one another.

There's the one where they grew up together, as close as brothers, beating each other up and complaining and being one another's closest companions, sharing a bedroom as kids and eating at the same family dinner table, actively encouraged by Jiang Fengmian to interact as equals.

And then there's the one where Wei Wuxian was in service to Jiang Cheng's family. Not as a servant--Jiang Fengmian absolutely refused to do that, even if he couldn't adopt him. But as a disciple of Jiang Cheng's father and recipient of his charity, as Jiang Cheng's future right hand and most trusted subordinate.

It's a vertical relationship, intimate in its own way but with very strict expectations about what obligations flow in what directions; they are not identical and reciprocal as between friends and equals.

(It's my opinion that Jiang Fengmian's core deal was a deep-seated discontent with the hierarchies he was at the top of, without access to any way to actually deconstruct them or even coherently articulate his opposition. Wei Changze was his dear friend, and no one thinks that's a good enough reason for him to treat Wei Changze's son like his own, because Wei Changze was also his servant, and you can't make that circle square. That's not a way you're allowed to love.)

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian were like brothers; Wei Wuxian served Jiang Cheng.

The personal relationship was always the most important one. To them, in their hearts. But it was the other one that was real, that had weight in the world.

And it's important to understand that neither can be held up as more factual than the other, even though they conflict. Both relationships existed, and had power.

So then when Jiang Cheng chose to hate Wei Wuxian and articulate his grudge against him, he chose to do it in the language of fealty. Because as far as he knew, his case there was secure, watertight, and it wouldn't expose him emotionally or politically.

And those are the terms in which he's been condemning him all this time: for abandoning the Sect, for ingratitude, for lack of loyalty.

For fuckups, too, and poor judgment, but some of that now turns out to have been justified and some of it was mostly the fault of enemies behaving badly, or even Jiang Cheng himself allowing himself to be pushed into making unworthy choices.

And it was all for his sake.

The thing, the thing in my opinion, about what Wei Wuxian did, about the core transfer and his silent self-destruction around keeping it secret, is that that is a hideous thing to have done between two people who love each other, as an act of love. Beautiful, but awful. As the man who was like a brother to him, Jiang Cheng has a great deal of standing to object to it.

But as an act of vassalage, it's basically perfect.

If Wei Wuxian were only what he formally was to Jiang Cheng, if he is interpreted through a lens of fealty and obligation, he did exactly what he should have done, and went beyond what duty actually required. And went to his death silently, allowing himself to be judged, taking all the burden on himself rather than let harm come to his lord.

Like, obviously Jiang Cheng was harmed by the part where Jin Zixuan got manslaughtered and Jiang Yanli walked into the line of fire in situations where Wei Wuxian was resorting to violence and probably shouldn't have, but those are one step removed from the core issue. In terms of Wei Wuxian's intentional choices around Jiang Cheng himself, at the times he was feeling betrayed and abandoned Wei Wuxian was in fact being impossibly, poetically loyal, an absolute cliche about it.

But only in terms of the hierarchical form of their relationship.

Which means that even though Jiang Cheng has a lot of reasons to still be mad at Wei Wuxian, his actual complaints that he's centered for thirteen years are basically wiped out by the revelation of Wei Wuxian's sacrifice.

Wei Wuxian was in fact doing the tragic hero loyal vassal thing, which very much includes being misunderstood and slandered by the world. (Chenqing as a name choice absolutely references this expectation, and the idea that Jiang Cheng specifically will never understand that Wei Wuxian was trying to help him first and foremost all along; he is not subtle.)

The debts Jiang Cheng has been spitefully calling in and considering defaulted were already long paid.

So if at this point Jiang Cheng keeps pursuing that same line of rhetorical attack, now that he knows, he'll be putting himself morally in the wrong, and he knows it. But if he pivots to something else, he'll both be signalling the shape of that secret to the entire world and looking like a prize idiot.

Which is already how he feels.

To actually address the remaining grievances between them, which are considerable, would require releasing those safe, open grudges to Wei Wuxian's face and then reclaiming him as a loved one. Which is, one could fairly say, more than anyone could expect.

Which is why Wei Wuxian told him he didn't have to.

Which leaves Jiang Cheng at something of an impasse.

[tiredbitchposts]

Say what you will about Jin Zixuan but he's such a brother-in-law character. Like, you know he's rich and vaguely good looking but you still have no idea what your sister sees in him and you still haven't forgiven him about all the times he made her sad, doesn't matter if "we were only teenagers" and "he apologized" because in your opinion he hasn't grovelled enough but your sister likes him so you have to see him at every family gathering. I can see him wearing some type of sweather vest looking all awkward at the Jiang family gathering, there a 50/50 chance he's holding Jin Ling but it depends on the day, not because of any sexist belief that men shouldn't be taking care of children, but because while holding his son would help him pretend to not be as awkward as he feels (kind of like clinging onto the only person that you know at a party only that they're your baby son and your wife is talking with her family right over there) Jin Ling is also an auntie magnet so he has to fight for the right to hold his own son against elderly women and his wife's younger brothers, it's harder than you think but he's doing his best

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Aug 16th

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1. i hope it's okay to resend an ask from 3 years ago? 😅

(it's #2 on the first 'fics still missing'. there's a rec however i think that fic/the relevant scene was posted AFTER i sent the ask on may 2021 so it's probably not it, and i do not think it's 300k 😲 long!)

the only thing i still remember is that wen qing does a surgery to bring back wei wuxian's core, and the new core is from a wen prisoner who is set to be executed. the prisoner turns out to be wen yuan's bio dad, and he's willing.

i think there's another core surgery but as punishment? i may be mixing up fics since it's been a long time.

many thanks!!! @danmeireader

FOUND? Until The End by abCEE (M, 365k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, war changes people, resulting to OOC, no pinning, Established Relationship, Mpreg, Good Uncle LQR, a little grey LWJ, a bit of JC bashing from LWJ, BAMF JYL, 16 years of yearning, mainly CQL verse but has scenes from the novel as well, LSZ is WangXian’s Child, WWX Has a New Golden Core, Canon Rewrite, Happy Ending, Fix-It of Sorts) except that in that, Yuan is WWX and LWJ bio son but there is another child whose father gives WWX his core. Might be worth checking it out as even if it's not the right one it's a good story

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2. Hello! I am searching for one fic i read it was WIP i guess, in one particular scene there was sparing practice in cloud recesses school days, where someone tries to stab WWX but Jin Zixuan takes the blow near heart.. when Wen Qing with other healers arrive they find WWX's blood is compatible with Jin Zixuan that's how they become sworn brother with Nei Huisang too. idk but there was some other invention to secure swon brotherhood shared with JZX in front of JGS

FOUND? sounds exactly like a scene from 🔒 The Second Hand Unwinds by trulywicked (E, 64k, WangXian, JYL/JZX, WIP, Time Travel Fix-It, Not JC Friendly, Not Yunmeng Jiang Sect Friendly, Not Jiāng Family Friendly, Not YZY Friendly, Time Travelling LWJ, Protective LWJ, Fluff, Minor Angst, Minor Character Death, JGS is his own warning, Wooing, LWJ is romantic af, Inventor WWX, Genius WWX, Cloud Recesses Study Arc, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Protective Gusu Lan Sect, Supportive LXC, Good Uncle LQR, WWX Protection Squad)

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3. Hello!

I'm looking for a fic where wwx became jyl's personal healer and where he meets lwj at her wedding with lan xichen, when lwj accidently gets an approdisiac meant for the groom (to cause an incident???), so wwx has to help him out in his professional role and of course to save his shijie's wedding.

Thsnk you in advance! @janiquebeingcreative

FOUND! trust your fingertips by plonk (Not Rated, 15k, WangXian, Aphrodisiacs, Medical Kink, Canon Era, Different First Meeting)

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4. hi! i hope you're doing well. im trying to find an ongoing fic where wwx leaves lotus pier way before the wen decides to act up. he lives with the wen sibs far away from the cultivation world but comes back eventually to help the sects to defeat the wen. the last time I saw it it had been months from the last update.

FOUND! the sea meets the moon-blanched land by rkivees (G, 44k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, YLLZ WWX, Canon-Typical Violence, Developing Relationship, Childhood Trauma, Sect Leader WWX, BAMF WWX, BAMF LWJ, BAMF WQ, Good Parent LQR, First Love, Love Confessions, minor jiang sibs appearance, Mentioned LXC, Past Child Abuse, Drunken Shenanigans, Past Violence, No Golden Core Transfer, Non-Linear Narrative) I think 4 on the fic finder post is the sea meets the moon-blanched land by rkivees but not sure since it was updated recently.

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5. I am looking for a fic it is wangxian a

Arranged marriage this what a remember for the plot that wei Ying is Outcasted by the lan elders because madam yu did give the gift tha the send a copy of the rules and the jaed token @androgynousbelievergarden

FOUND! Finding a Home by Duochanfan (T, 8k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Light Angst)

NOT FOUND! Concord by Deastar (T, 41k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Gūsū Lán Sect Rules, Depression, Canon Divergence, Angst with a Happy Ending)

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6. Hello! For fic finder, please! I am looking for a fic where instead of giving JC his own core, WWX knocks out a random Wen soldier and they use that guy’s core for the transfer. I think that the core was weak and throughout the remainder of the story JC was angry that his new core from “Baoshan Sanren” was so weak and puny. Does this sound familiar? Thank you!

FOUND? Never Again by Hauntcats (T, 67k, WWX & WN & WQ, JC & WWX, wangxian, graphic depictions of violence, major character death, Canon Divergence, Angst, Golden Core Transfer Fix-It, Time Travel Fix-It, Not JC Friendly, Dark, BAMF WWX, mentions of abuse, Not Everyone Dies au, XY doesn’t have a happy ending) It has them taking Wen Chao's core over a random soldier's but the rest fits

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7. Hi, thank you so much for all your hard work!!

I'm looking for two fics:

A) I think this one might have appeared in your blog and that's how I learned about it the first time. Modern AU Wangxian where they're retired/considering retiring figure skaters, and the fic is a series of them trying to have sex but something going wrong. At the end LWJ breaks/hurts his ankle really badly on the way to a cabin to have sex in Olympics gear, and then they get married.

B) WWX comes back in a random cultivator's body while LWJ is recovering from the discipline whip, and he sneaks into the Cloud Recesses to learn about A-Yuan. I think the cultivator gave his body up to WWX to punish him, and the curse mark on his arm becomes activated when he's happy, and it activates so badly it nearly cuts his arm off.

Thank you!

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8. Hello! For the next Fic Finder, I'm looking for a modern AU, rated either Mature or Explicit, where Wei Ying and Lan Zhan end up stranded in a ski resort. It's just them, no one else. They end up getting together by the end of the story. I cannot recall if one person was injured, I think the answer is no but I could be wrong! Thank you!

FOUND! Certain Obscure Things by hkafterdark (E, 32k, wangxian, Snowed In, Modern AU, First Time, and there was only one bed, Cabin Fic, Drinking, canon typical kink)

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9. hii please could anyone help me find this fic where wwx and lwj are both genderbent and theyre both authors at a writers conference thats kinda all i remember

FOUND? Happy for Now by ScarlettStorm (E, 80k, WangXian, Modern, Rule 63, Cisswap, wlw wangxian, There Was Only One Bed, but that's not actually where the tension lies, romance author au, Adhd WWX, service top LWJ, two gay disasters, Pining, Smut, Comedy, Minor Angst, major shenanigans, whoops your hotel booking was a scam?, That's A Shame, guess we better share, there are no other options, horny yearning, furtive masturbation, Cunnilingus, Vaginal Fingering, Sex Toys, Chekhov's sex bag, everybody's parents live, except for QHJ but we don't care about him, mama lan had cancer but she's okay now)

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10. Fic finder, could you help me find the delightfully sexy A/B/O roleplay fic? Our guys are in the irl present day, and LZ finds out WY has been reading A/B/O stuff, and they roleplay it. In the finale, they have drunk sex, and WY cums so hard he passes out, and LZ is a weepy mess about it.

FOUND? eating sugar out of your hand by azuresummer (E, 20k, wangxian, Modern, ABO roleplay, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Dom/sub, Dominant LWJ, Submissive WWX, Established Relationship, Roleplay, Consensual Non-Consent, Under-negotiated Kink, degradation kink, Praise Kink, Light Bondage, Size Kink, Size Difference, Spit Kink, Hair-pulling, Daddy Kink, Slight Crossdressing, Lingerie, Breeding Kink, Creampie, Feminizing Language, Dirty Talk, Overstimulation, Prostate Milking, slight breathplay, Facials, Snowballing, Finger Sucking, Panty Kink, Spanking, Crying, Mentions of Face-Slapping, Drunk Sex, Mating Cycles/In Heat, LWJ & WWX Have a Breeding Kink, PWP, roleplay as a love language)

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11. Heyyyy do you guys remember that one fic where jc kept wy in a basement kinda situation? Uk he held him captive while the world thought wwx is dead and I'm pretty very sure there was a forced crossdressing situation with abuse too? This fic has been mentioned many times in itmf posts or fic finders too.. I don't remember it's name, does my description ring a bell? @constellationdks

FOUND! on restitution by glitteringmoonlight (M, 98k, LSZ & WWX, WWX & JL, wangxian, dark JC, not JC friendly, captivity, non-graphic torture, angst w/ happy ending)

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12. Hello,

I'm looking for a fic that I read ages ago, but don't remember what website it was on. It had both wangxian and xicheng in it. So Lan Wangji and Lan Xichen reached immortality and now they are living in present time where everyone has reincarnated. Lan Wangji has custody of Lan Sizhui and I think Lan Jingyi as well but not sure about the latter part. Both of them attend high school where Wei Wuxian is a teacher (I think he just transferred to the school but am not sure). Jin Ling also attends school with them. Jiang Cheng takes care of him and he is a policeman. He does not talk to Wei Wuxian as he blames him for their sister death/bad medical state. I don't remember exactly which one it was. I also remember that Nie Mingjue is Jiang Cheng boss, Nie Huisang and Jing Guangyao are in the actor/entertainment business and Wen Ruohan is a villain in there @kyjrd

FOUND? monotone by seredemia which the author put on drive instead of ao3

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13. Hello! I'm looking for match-making fic where Jin Zixuan (tired of wwx constantly interrupting family time with his wife and newly born son) decides the best way to get him out of the way is to matchmake him with someone. I think he tries Nie Mingjue mainly, because they have similar interests, etc.

Jiang Cheng also gets roped in, but he thinks Jin Zixuan is nuts the whole time. NMJ thinks Wei wuxian is definitely flirting with him at some point because his muscles get complimented? Lan Xichen has to reassure him that "no, he is just like that".

It's a comedy of errors mainly, because LWJ and WWX definitely have something going on between them, and it ends with them running off with horses to elope into the sunset or smth. Jiang Yanli doesn't know her husband's matchmaking scheme, but she does know about wwx and lwj and helps them elope at the end.

Pretty sure it was a short fic, ignores canon and occurs in a what-if scenario where the whole burial mounds situation didn't happen.

I'd be very grateful of you could help me find this! Thank you 😊 @indelibleme

FOUND! Marital Prospects by Vamillepudding (G, 18k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Everybody Lives, Romantic Comedy, Misunderstandings, LWJ Needs a Hug)

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14. I was reading a fic but I lost it. It was where wwx was frozen for I don't know how many years and they think. I think it was the lans? I think lwj was a doctor or archaeologist? A-yuan was his son there they were. There was a scene from wwx taking apart a mechanical pencil/pen and putting it back together and lwj is surprised by it. Lqr? He thinks wwx is not human lwj thinks otherwise and they locked him in a room @quwieiidkd

FOUND? 🧡 The Shade of Old Trees by Kryal (T, 363k, WangXian, Ridiculously Long Notes, History, Canon Divergence, Modern AU, Slow Burn, Worldbuilding, Slow Life, Action/Adventure, Magic Returns, BAMF WWX)

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15. I'm looking for a fic that canon era WWX had ended up accidentally raising up a bunch of dinosaurs. The main thing I remember is that JC was talking with him about it and they were considering them different kinds of mythical creatures(I remember qilin and Fenghuang especially.) Though anything dinosaur and untamed is awesome. @bcaugust

FOUND? Fenghuan and Qilin by Ibijau (T, 544, JC & WWX, Dinosaurs, Demonic cultivation, undead dinosaurs, mdzs with dinosaurs)

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16. Hiya, I'm wracking my brains trying tonfind a fic. The only part I really remember is that to rebuild their library's collection, Gusu Lan reached out to other sects, asking for texts to copy. I think the Jiang weren't originally for it (whether it was Jiang Cheng or Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian vetoing it I can't remember), but Wei Wuxian tried to help. I think maybe Lan Wangji paid a visit to Lotus Pier, but again, I'm not sure.

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17. Hello! I am looking for a specific fic that I have lost. It was a canon-divergent fic. In it Wei Wuxian ties decorative knots as something to keep his hands occupied while his mind runs. I think it was set primarily during the Yiling settlement days, because I remember he had a room/small house/workspace which had knots hung all over the walls. Although, my brain is also saying that this could have been a “WWX grows up on Baoshan Sanren’s mountain” au and his room could have been there. The knots are the unique detail I remember. Any clue? Thank you!

FOUND? inevitable everything by isabilightwood (E, 193k, WangXian, WQ/MM, JYL/JZX, BSSR/LY, Canon Divergence, YLLZ WWX, but WWX is BSSR's disciple/adoptive grandson too, the cultivation sects think this is a, War Prize AU, it's actually self-arranged marriage, Arranged Marriage, yin iron shenanigans, LWJ Has Friends, Mutual Pining, Pining while fucking, LWJ Has a YLLZ Kink, Switch WangXian, BDSM, Submissive LWJ, Dominant WWX, Angst with a Happy Ending, magical illness of a side character (who will get better), Rope Bondage, Impact Play, Rimming, Bottom LWJ, Temperature Play, Face-Fucking, Breathplay, (talisman-based breathplay to be specific), Cock Warming, Public Scene, no one gets naked in public this is the sense of WWX invents the, Remote Controlled Vibrator, Semi-Public Sex, Outdoor Sex, Blindfolds, one qingmian smut scene with oral and fingering, Minor Character Death, All Sex Scenes Are Skippable!) It is a Baoshan Sanren raises WWX and the knotwork is highlighted several times in the story, starting in chapter 2.

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18. ff request! can't remember much, other than the fact that wwx creates a justice array, which they use to question lan elders, some jins, & other sect leaders to successfully reveal their crimes of colluding w the jins. wonder if this rings a bell? thanks! @potatokunst

FOUND! IF by Remma3760 (Not Rated, 94k, WangXian, QingJue, Aftermath of Violence, Canon Divergence, Everybody Lives, Fix-It of Sorts, BAMF LWJ, Golden Core Reveal)

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19. Good morning! I am looking for a fic where Wei Wuxian was captured by the Jin and given a false trial and he was punished by being hunted. He was set loose into the land surrounding Koi Tower and all the Jin disciples hunted him, but he managed to survive, decimate all the Jin disciples, and escape. I think it was a very short fic, but was possibly one piece in a longer series. Would love to read this again, thank you!

FOUND? the wild hunt series by antebunny (G, 18k, WangXian, JYL & JL, WWX & JL, WWX & JC, LXC & LWJ, Canon Divergence, Angst, Non-Linear Narrative, Canon-Typical Violence, JL and his many many uncles, JGY is morally ambiguous but okay, BAMF WWX, WWX is innocent of literally everything for plot purposes, JYL Lives, Not Everyone Dies, Hopeful Ending, Fix-It of Sorts, what is fanfiction but 10k of reunions, Found Family, Fluff, they're soft your honor, Domestic Fluff, Happy Ending)

FOUND? foliage by antebunny (G, 7k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Angst, Non-Linear Narrative, Canon-Typical Violence, JL and his many many uncles, jgy is morally ambiguous but okay, BAMF WWX, wwx is innocent of literally everything, for plot purposes, JYL Lives, Somebody Lives/Not Everyone Dies, Hopeful Ending)

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20. Hi! This is fic finder. I dont remember much. It set in sunshot campaign. When they want to storm Nightless city, Wen Ning volunter to open the underground passage. It need the wen blood. I think the door has a family tree on it? Thats all i can remember @idontknowwhattowriteforusername

FOUND! ❤️ Gentians in bloom by teawater (M, 251k, wangxian, Canon Divergence, AU after cold spring, Political Marriage, Dysfunctional Family, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Fix-It, Hurt/Comfort, LQR bashing (not really), POV Multiple, Implied/Referenced Suicide, Eventual Happy Ending, BAMF WWX, JC is actually a lot better than canon, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, YZY bashing (again not completely))

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21. Hey! I saw this prompt on AO3 searching for the ff. "Everyone is arriving to Gusu Lan to study and while they were introducing themselves and their clan. The Wen clan interrupt the Jiang clan (as usual) and Wei Ying spoke out and all of sudden bunnies were entering the class when Wei Ying said something all the bunnies transformed into human yelling, “yes, madam Lan”. Everyone is shock." @vbhardwaj-reads

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[purgatoryandme]

Underdiscussed MDZS topic: I think it has been broadly concluded that Wen Ning is 1) Best Boy and 2) unduly influenced by Wei Wuxian since his fierce corpse transformation, causing him to murder Jin Zixuan in a situation where he otherwise would not have. It would appear that most of the cultivation world has concluded the same thing, though they’re probably pretty on the fence about #1. 

Wen Ning’s intro in the novel is as a corpse puppet. Countless accusations fly around regarding his free will and Wei Wuxian’s own cruel denial of it during his darkest times. Our perception as readers is often split between that of the cultivation world at large and that of the people who know and have FEELINGS about the main characters, and the schism between those perceptions is made most obvious regarding the Burial Mounds period. Especially because of how little exposition the novel provides about it - and how unwilling Wei Wuxian is to speak of it later.

Public perspective: Wen Ning is Wei Wuxian’s puppet, unable to form his own thoughts and feelings, and is the vessel of Wei Wuxian’s hatred for the world. He was brought back to life to be a weapon, and the Wens, as evil people fleeing their reckoning, approve of these evil arts.

Private perspective: Wei Wuxian was trying to collect the shards of many broken lives, desperately trying to bring a sense of good into a deeply twisted situation, and created a very complicated outcome. He brought a brother back to his sister and gave Wen Ning an opportunity to live again, albeit in an upsetting way, and respected his autonomy as best he could while their lives crumbled around them. Wen Ning himself took joy in protecting his family for what little time they had left, and was grateful for the comfort provided to his sister despite having...complex repressed feelings about being a corpse. He was happy to see Wei Wuxian again. Wen Ning has free will and Wei Wuxian appears to really value not even attempting to overtake that.

Audience perspective: Wen Ning was brought back to life because of his sister’s request and Wei Wuxian’s desire to repay a debt/unwillingness to accept failure without consideration for his own desires. His existence is a perversion of the natural order, but his subservient nature and ties to Wei Wuxian cause him to make the best of a bad situation. He’s a good person, and has maintained an outwardly positive perspective, but cannot cry any longer, cannot have meaningful connections outside of the Wens, and is, in a way, cursed. Worse: he is vulnerable to Wei Wuxian’s control superseding his own desires, especially regarding Wei Wuxian losing control of the resentful energy that powers them both. In this, Wen Ning is a victim of Wei Wuxian’s greatest lapse. 

Wei Wuxian’s perspective is quite similar to the audience’s, as is often the case in the novel. Perhaps it is due to his bad memory, perhaps it is a response to trauma, but Wei Wuxian often internalizes his public persona in times of great stress or conflict that is truly irresolvable. He simply forgets many of the little things that form a dissonant image...or never speaks of them again, preferring to move on with his life.  (Or his death. His death is such a mysterious thing in the novel it drives me nuts)

The thing about the audience perspective, though, is that it is as flawed as the other perspectives. In particular: Wen Ning clearly disagrees with it. Arguments can be made for him protecting Wei Wuxian from his own actions, piggybacking on Wen Ning’s meek and mild attitude...but the novel proves, time and again, that this is a deeply flawed approach to Wen Ning’s character. Out of the entire cast, Wen Ning is second only to Lan Wangji in his directness regarding the truth or moral core of a situation. He confronted Jiang Cheng about his golden core, despite being sworn to secrecy. He rescued Wei Wuxian despite having minimal contact with him. He stood up to his sister about this reckless rescue. He turned his back on the Wen sect!!!! He came back as a FIERCE CORPSE!!!! He willingly turned himself in when it was clear that Wei Wuxian was going to die for them all!!!!! When contrasted with the actions of the rest of the main cast, it’s obvious he’s got a spine of steel. He’s polite, he was raised to stay out of the way and to not be a liability to his sister, but he’s got even more decisiveness than her underneath it all when it comes to relationships he values. Wen Ning is clever, emotionally literate, and unafraid of facing the truth. Even Wei Wuxian forgets this at times, and is often embarrassed about underestimating Wen Ning’s character. 

This is important. 

Wen Ning doesn’t blame Wei Wuxian for Qiongqi Path. He does blame himself, though, and his regrets are largely focused on how the situation deteriorated. He isn’t as horrified by the murder he’s committed. 

Key to this: Wei Wuxian admits, in that oblique way of his, that Wen Ning killed Jin Zixuan because Wei Wuxian saw him as an enemy and Wen Ning is attuned to his emotions. Not his orders, not his control, not his resentful energy, but his emotions. 

Losing control was losing the ability to hold back the resentment that Wen Ning died with. And what does Wei Wuxian and most of the cultivation world skim over regarding this resentment? Wen Ning died on Qiongqi Path. He was killed by Jins.

The same people, wearing the same colours, who attacked the man Wen Ning is now tasked with guarding. 

Wen Ning had his own reasons for losing control that are broadly independent of Wei Wuxian, but acknowledging those reasons requires 1) acknowledging Wen Ning as his own person and 2) acknowledging that, as a person, he may have homicidal inclinations towards that people that murdered his sect, his clan, his direct family, and himself. The Wens, both victims and victimizers is the narrative, might hold some desire for retribution in their heart that echoes that of the Sunshot Campaign members. And that’s hard, because that’s complicated - no clear villains or victors here.

MXTX plays with narrative like this a lot in MDZS. It’s subtle at times, obvious at others, but it’s a consistent theme of the novel. It’s also one that a lot of discourse seems to miss. 

If the character perspectives isn’t enough support for you, though, there’s also the world-building context to look at. According to legend, Qiongqi Path is where the founder of the Qishan Wen Clan, Wen Mao, rose to fame in just one battle. Hundreds of years before the novel's beginning, he fought a divine beast for eighty-one days and ultimately claimed its life. The divine beast was the Qiongqi, a beast of chaos known to punish the good and encourage the evil, devouring the loyal and the righteous while awarding the malicious. Of course, many of the Wen clan’s legends can be looked at with suspicion. But Qiongqi Path was already a graveyard. It’s a tainted place, with tainted memories for the people involved, firmly seated in a legend that reeks of the inevitability of somebody dying there that day, regardless of one man’s ability to maintain control of another. 

[thepurplewombat]

The Sin List

okay, so as we all know, it is vitally important that any character we stan must be morally pure and a good example to emulate in real life.

So I have decided to create a list of MDZS characters and their sins, which everyone can easily refer to in order to make sure that they are not following some horrible criminal or murderer!

This was a lot of work, but I'm very proud of it. Just doing my bit to ensure the moral purity of the fandom!

Wei Wuxian - Necromancy, disrespecting his elders, disrespecting the dead, killed Jin Zixuan, punched Jin Zixuan in the face one time, cannibalism, mind control, deviant sexual fantasies, trespassing, oath-breaking, urged Wen Qing to perform untested and possibly fatal operation on Jiang Cheng without his consent.

Lan Wangji - Defied his elders, broke the Lan Clan rules, sexually assaulted Wei Wuxian, deviant sexual fantasies, GBH (JGY)

Jin Guangyao - betrayed and killed Wen Ruohan, betrayed and killed Jin Guangshan, murder (NMJ), murdered assorted people, disrespecting the dead, assorted Spy Things for Wen Ruohan.

Nie Mingjue - Killed a lot of people during the war, verbally abused Nie Huaisang, burned Nie Huaisang's stuff, attempted murder (JGY), attempted murder (JGY), attempted murder (JGY), murder (JGY), killed the Mo family (well, his arm did anyway). In favor of the genocide of the Wen Remnants

Jin Guanshan: Sexual assault, rape, murder, ordering human experimentation with resentful energy to be done by his sect, played both sides during the war, didn't take responsibility for his children, ultimately responsible for getting WWX killed because he wanted the YTT so bad

Wen Ruohan: Attempted world domination, murder etc

Lan Qiren: has a stick up his ass

Su Minshan: Refused to die for the Lan, supported JGY in his efforts to prevent undead Da-ge from killing him. Also cursed Jin Zixun.

Sect Leader Yao: Weathervane politician

Jiang Wanyin: strangled Wei Wuxian that one time, keeps trying to talk to him but is way too tsundere about it, killed many during the war, didn't immediately forgive WWX for getting JYL killed, threatens to break Jin Ling's legs weekly.

Jin Ling: rude. rude rude rude. Also stabbed WWx one time

Lan Jingyi: not respecting his elders, rude rude rude. Also loud

JFM: shit dad, throw him in a volcano

Madame Yu: Angry mom, beat Wei Wuxian for things that weren't his fault, yelled at JC a lot, didn't appreciate JYL, very mean.

Lan Xichen: killed people during the war. Randomly starts doing flute solos in conversation

Meng Shi: was a prostitute. Told Meng Yao his dad was amazing and he should totally look him up later.

Madam Jin: awful person, she can go into the volcano with JFM. physical and verbal abuse (JGY)

Nie Huaisang: killed cats, nearly killed the juniors, let his sect fall into ruin, traded obscene materials, disrespecting his sect's traditions, lied to Lan Xichen to make him kill JGY

Wen Qing: went along with WRH's plans, performed surgery on JC without his consent

Wen Ning: Was part of the burning of LP

Mo Xuanyu: Summoned Satan to murder his relatives, harassed his brother

Jin Zixun: asshole, rude, broke the Geneva Convention on the ethical treatment of prisoners several times. Useless person

FOR THE SAKE OF SAFETY AND YOUR MORALS YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO STAN THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERS

Jiang Yanli

Qin Su

Lan Shizui

[minsarasarahair]

Maybe because I haven't meet Shen Jiu yet and I'm only in Book 2...

This is just my take but the character closest to Jiang Cheng so far is Luo Binghe... Sure, there are similarities with Liu Qingge as well but its fewer compare to Luo Binghe so far... At least, for me? To make more clear, what I meant is they both undergo similar emotional rollercoaster when the person they trusted suddenly abandoned them.

Betrayal - First of all, their negative feelings toward Wei Wuxian and Shen Qingqiu are valid because they felt/assume they are betrayed. What's wrong is their actions of hurting others because of it. Wei Wuxian left Yunmeng Jiang for Wen Remnants, accidentally killed Jin Zixuan with Wen Ning, and Jiang Yanli's death. From Jiang Cheng's perspective, Wei Wuxian abandoned him and Wei Wuxian didn't respect his aspiration to be sect leader. Shen Qingqiu pushed Luo Binghe to the ravine because System told him so. From his perspective, he's being abandoned by his Shizun simply because he has demon blood which isn't fair because its not his fault that he's a mixed blood.

Conflicted - Their conflict as a character is determining someone important to them if they are good or bad. Jiang Cheng's character arc is him determining if Wei Wuxian's newfound cultivation is bad or not. Does Wei Wuxian really betray him? Does Wei Wuxian doesn't care about his promise back then to him to Jiang Cheng or Jiang Cheng becoming sect leader? Hence, his obsession in hunting demonic cultivators to find answers but later he let go of Wei Wuxian and even returned the flute used by Wei Wuxian for his dangerous cultivation. Implying Wei Wuxian is not bad like what the rumors say and this is his final judgement. Its similar to Luo Binghe's conflict whether Shen Qingqiu is an abuser or actually regret what he did? Is he actually kind and only strict to help him grow stronger?

Temper - Both of them show how scary they are when they lose their temper. Again, this is my only opinion but I don't think that's their whole character. Yes, I joke around Jiang Cheng is an angry grape but his interaction with other than few "specific" people seems fine? He's actually calmer than I expected as sect leader or martial brother. This angry side of him became more prominent after the Yunmeng Jiang massacre, and Wei Wuxian's departure. Before all of this, Jiang Cheng is a good kid in a toxic household who's only trying to please his parents. He don't exactly hate Wei Wuxian yet. Jealous, yes. On the contrary, he values his brother-like connection with Wei Wuxian. Similar to Luo Binghe who's just a good kid through in through who want to meet his Shizun's expectations then after the betrayal of his Shizun, that's only when he lose his cool. He also values the master-disciple relationship with Shen Qingqiu.

The one who Chase - They are the one who keep chasing then want to lock up Wei Wuxian and Shen Qingqiu to probably interrogate them so they ended up using underhanded action to make it happen. Jiang Cheng use Wei Wuxian's fear of dogs against him. Luo Binghe put his demon blood inside Shen Qingqiu so he can find him easily and can hurt him if he didn't obey him.

Miscommunication - This is the result of their assumptions because the people they wish to talk to are refusing to say anything to them. After the death of Wei Wuxian and Shen Qingqiu, they became more unhinged lol Luo Binghe kept Shen Qingqiu's body while Jiang Cheng still believe Wei Wuxian is not dead so he's obsessed in demonic cultivators. Interesting that both Wei Wuxian and Shen Qingqiu's deaths are blamed to Jiang Cheng and Luo Binghe in the story. Wei Wuxian self-detonate during Jiang Cheng's siege and Shen Qingqiu's self-detonate to help Luo Binghe overcame the Xin Mo. Then we have Ning Yingying and Wen Ning explaining to them that the people who died deeply care about them actually. In addition, both of them lead a siege in their respective story.

The difference of course is Shen Qingqiu returned to Luo Binghe while Wei Wuxian didn't returned to Jiang Cheng. Romance-driven Luo Binghe stick closer to Shen Qingqiu but Duty-driven Jiang Cheng let go of Wei Wuxian.

I think I need to be more specific because others assume I'm seeing Book 2 in romantic lens. No. I don't ship BingQiu yet during this part so I'm merely talking about the platonic relationship that's why it reminds me of Yunmeng Shuangjie. An older brother figure and younger brother figure who's abandoned story. Are we clear?

[myblurryreality]

MDZS headcanons (& fanon) takes that no one asked for! 👍🏽

- Wei Wuxian would have left the Jiang sect if the war never happened

- In the right circumstances, Jin Zixuan and Wei Wuxian could be friendly (idk Abt friends)

- Lan Xichen and Jiang Yanli would have made a cute and content couple, like the quiet constant love.

- Jiang Fengmain and Wei Wuxian's parents drifted apart but there was no true bad blood

- Qingheng-Jun was selfish and paralyzed with it, he was too narrow-minded to see the hurtful ripple effects his decisions would have.

- I headcanon that though they look enough alike to be referred to as twins, Lan Xichen favors his father and Lan Wangji favors his mother.

- I think Wei Wuxian would have developed Guido eventually, even without the war.

- In the modern world Jiang Yanli would have gone low contact with some of her family.

- Wei Wuxian, similarly, would have done so with the Jiang's in the modern world

- Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji would have gotten together during the lectures under the right circumstances.

- This is not a headcanon, but I relate to Lan Wangji's mortification over getting a crush, in this economy.

- In a soulmate AU, where one gets the name of their soulmate at 25 that only you and your soulmate can see, Jiang Cheng gets his to only realize it's someone he killed or he killed someone dear to them. (This is a fic idea)

- Lan Wangji (15) is the youngest of the young masters we were introduced to in his generation and Jin Zixuan (16) is the oldest.

- I feel like Jin Zixuan and Wen Qing would have made a good political match. She's cunning and experienced enough to navigate the trappings of the Jin Clan and guide her husband.

- I headcanon that the Yu clan while politically ruthless when marrying off their daughters, were generally decent people for gentry folks. Madam Yu's personality was all her own.

- I also headcanon them as matriarchal and that they offered to take in Wei Wuxian but Jiang Fengmain refused.

- Madam Jin is a bitch but I don't think she's Madam Yu bad.

- Wei Wuxian would have made something of himself even if he had never been taken into a clan, I could see him becoming a farmer.

- While I much prefer the book canon, the handfasting scene in 'The Untamed' adaption opens up so many plot doors.