#gender detachment

[logically-asexual]

i feel so seen!!

(twitter thread)

[cacodaemonia]

From the substack post above, which contains the link to a preprint of the academic article:

When I began my research, I planned to compare the experiences of asexual men, asexual women, and “beyond the binary” asexuals. I ended up interviewing 77 people under the asexuality umbrella. But there was a major problem. About a third of the people I interviewed didn’t really fit into any gender category. These individuals felt that gender presentation and/or identity was unimportant, pointless, and/or oppressive. They didn’t want to be understood through the lens of gender. I ended up coining the term “gender detachment” to describe these feelings (though, as some you helpfully pointed out, there are other terms, like autigender, neutrois, etc. that get at similar ideas).

[ifwebefriends]

My egg cracks and inside it is just a slightly smaller and slightly different color plastic egg

[sweetthingshavesharpteeth]

so here's a thing about gender, there's a hierarchy of acceptable approaches to it:

ideally, you strongly align with the gender you were assigned at birth

failing that, you should strongly align with the socially-dominant gender that you weren't assigned at birth

if you can't manage that, you should at least have strong feelings about pronouns

which means that if you don't have a particular internal gender alignment and don't care about pronouns, you're left feeling like you've failed at being cis and also failed at being trans

[marquismongaga]

"So what IS the point of gender?" I scream out into the void. "Are there any positives or is it just kinda there?? Not a fan!"

[acewithobsessions]

Idk what to say other than it seems super common. But I wanted to see.

[limetarte]

Gender Detachment flag

Made a flag for gender detachment 😄

You are free to use it and modify it.

The circle represents the gender and the “holes” represent the detachment. The colors don’t have a specific meaning, but you can give them one if you want. Got inspired by the asexual flag.

And made one without the dotted circle. You’re also free to use it and modify it.

For more info on copyright stuff, click on “keep reading”.

“You” don’t have to give credit on social media and other platforms for using it or modifying it, just give credit if it’s for a historical or archives blog/post.

If “you’re gonna modify it and make it into a flag for something else, just mention that it comes from a gender detachment flag! ☺️

[acestories]

I genuinely want a Kilt.

I couldn't think of another way to bring up "what's the difference between a Kilt and a Skirt?" Cause, like... the only difference I see is the gender that is "supposed" to wear or.

I think it's important to let guys be gender non conforming without telling them they're a girl, cause actually misgendering people is still shit even when you are pro trans. "You're a girl, an egg waiting to crack, and that's ok" how about you are a boy and a man and it's still ok if you want to do something that doesn't align with traditional ideals of your gender. You can still be he/him in a skirt and makeup.

[ifwebefriends]

Wore my new binder for the first time today and it’s been awesome honestly would recommend!!

[sboochi]

It feels so liberating that Aziraphale and Crowley are allowed to not identify as male while still (usually) presenting as male and using male pronouns. I think it woke up something in me

[serpentface]

What's the Wardi cultural take on Akoshos sleeping with/partnering with/marrying other Akoshos?

It's not highly regulated to a degree that there are overwhelming cultural norms about it. There's a lot of societal focus on akoshos being theoretically suitable sexual partners for both men and women due to being dual-gendered, but not to an extent that relationships with One Another are stigmatized.

They also largely get to escape from the most severe concerns about penetrator/penetrated power dynamics because they're not regarded as Men (they're regarded as dual-gendered, and they're a female social class on every practical level), there's no status of manhood to Lose by receiving sexual penetration. The only real thing you see in that department is people assuming that one acts as 'the man' and one acts as 'the woman', but this is largely due to preoccupation with a notion of sex being Penetration With A Penis (and that Penetration With A Penis means that one person is in a Man's Role and one person is in a Woman's Role). But this will not be regarded as unnatural as in same-gender male relations, akoshos will Have to take up a position in this sexual dichotomy if they want to have Real Sex (Penetration With A Penis) with each other, and this is not unnatural and doesn't involve gaining or losing status since they are simultaneously male and female, not men.

So like you might see individual culture critics finding stuff to nitpick about it as their annoyance of the week or a singular Guy here or there who thinks it's weird, but this isn't a widespread norm. The vast majority of people don't give a shit about akoshos having sex with each other. The worst thing you're likely to experience Solely by virtue of being in an akoshos-akoshos relationship is someone asking you (probably with genuine curiosity) which one does the man stuff and which one does the woman stuff.

Akoshos also don't experience Hard expectations for marriage (though there are societal pressures that make marriage an attractive safety net all the same, ESPECIALLY marriage to a man) so unofficial life-partnerships between akoshos are pretty much the Only same gender partnerships between unwed people that are going to go unquestioned. ((Sworn brotherhood is technically a same gender life partnership for men that is Functionally similar to marriage (in that it's a kin-making practice between unrelated adults), but the tradition is Built upon the assumption that both parties will be married to women and that a primary goal of this kinship is to provide security for both parties' wives and children)). Marriage obligations in general are more lax in the economically secure but not Wealthy lower mercantile classes (as obligations to support and perpetuate one's family are universal, but these obligations can be filled simply by having at least One son who can get hitched, and marriages in the lower classes have no political functions and therefore there's less reason to ensure All your children are wed (there's still incentives like dowry, but this is not desperately needed when a family is economically secure)). So akoshos in this class group tend to have a Lot more freedom in terms of their life arrangements and chosen partners (though still experience the limiting frameworks of structural misogyny in other capacities).

The only thing that is out of the picture is akoshos/akoshos marriage. Marriage in this society has a predominantly reproductive function, the concept of reproductively non-viable marriages is generally considered absurd. This is not JUST this culture's form of homophobia, as marriage is a very practical arrangement at its core - both in a reproductive capacity and as bedrock for the patriarchal blood-kinship family system that forms the core social unit. The idea of same gender marriage isn't just absurd because 'ewwww weird' it's like, that Cannot work within this system, it Cannot fill core functions of what a marriage intends to do here, the ways on which marriage and kinship are BUILT makes same gender marriage practically (rather than just socially) untenable.

The sole exception to the 'marriage = reproductively viable" rule is that akoshos can be married to men (which in practice is almost always as a remarriage after a man has secured At Least an heir). This has a Little bit of internal logic here in that they perform predominantly female social roles (thus are suited to being a wife, even if they can't bear children) (and also on practical levels of them having the same legal status as women) but it's really more of a 'this is just how it's always been' kind of thing. A lot of the older pre-Wardi identity dual-gender roles that got mashed together under the 'akoshos' name would have involved marriage to a man as a second wife/concubine, in addition to his primary wife who would bear his children. Men potentially having multiple spouses has not been retained as a cultural practice, but the notion that an akoshos Can be a wife to a man has survived into modern day legal and doctrinal practices around marriage.

So like this being said, marriage as it is legally defined is only between a man and a woman, a man and an akoshos, or a woman and an akoshos. In practice the latter two are comparatively VERY rare- a man/akoshos marriage cannot provide children (though an akoshos can practically fulfill all other obligations and duties of a wife), a woman/akoshos marriage Can provide children (and while akoshos cannot function as a male heir, these children Will take their akoshos-parent's family name (though the wife retains her father's family name)), but akoshos are legally grouped with women in terms of rights and privileges (including being permanently under legal domain of their father unless they have been legally handed off to a male husband) and Cannot provide hard power patriarchal support that this family system is built upon and therefore depends upon, which makes these marriages socio-economically insecure. They can obviously still be a good partner and parent, but this is not the same as having the Legal hard power of a patriarch.

Akoshos marrying each other would be reproductively and socially nonviable, and is treated as a similarly absurd concept to a man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman. It's just not a part of the marriage and kinship framework, it's not a thing that you can Do.

[limetarte]

I learned a new term today: gender detachment, coined by Canton Winer.

I don’t like when people ask what my gender is because it implies that I HAVE a gender and that I NEED one when it’s just not true. It also forces me to out myself, have to over-explain and put myself at risk or misgender myself. I identify as trans and I feel gender detached, that’s it. I don’t want to know more about it. I am content with what I understand of myself.

[masterdisastre]

Thanks @queenfishernb for this important addiction! I don't necessarily agree with everything that Dr. Winer states in this, but it's a very good start and I'm really glad to know that this is an actual thing and not just my mind going down the bullshit rails!

Is being gender repulsed a thing?

Like, everyone's gender is cool, super, wunderbar, fichissimo. You can have the gender you want, you can have both, you can have your agab, I'm super fine and I'll fight for your right to identify.

But I hate being perceived as a person with a gender, whether it's male or female, unless I specifically want to be identified as one or the other. I want to wear whatever I want, I want to wear makeup if I feel like it and drink beer and talk about sports or books or music.

I just want to exist, not to find a gender. I feel like I don't need one, and I don't want one. Don't don't don't want one.

[thebluestbluewords]

parenting books did not prepare them for this:

"The Smee twins don't want to be boys anymore." 

Mal blinks. The parenting books didn't prepare her for this one. "Uh. Sure. Do they want to be girls?" 

Carlos shrugs. For some unfathomable reason, the Smee twins have decided that Carlos is the most trustworthy adult in the house, and have consequently decided that they're only going to talk to him when they need something. It keeps things nice and quiet, but it's also weird that they picked the guy who spends most of his free time researching better ways to make explosions as their singular safe adult. "Dunno. They didn't exactly say, so I figure probably not. Do we have books on this shit?" 

They have books on everything from feeding toddlers (thankfully not applicable - the Smee twins are old enough that they're willing to eat anything, and Celia and Dizzy haven't managed to procreate yet) to managing runaway teenagers, but they don't have any books on what to do when your sort-of-adoptive kids decide that they don't want to be boys anymore. "No." 

"Figures. Can we get some?"

"If you can figure out what books cover it, I'll misappropriate treasury funds to buy 'em," Mal decides. It might not even count as misappropriation if she can get Evie to write up a little blurb justifying the expense as part of the isle kid program. They got Celia and Dizzy's cell phones with official treasury funds. The magic that Evie's email connections can work is basically infallible at this point. "Do they want to cut their hair or anything?" 

"I didn't ask. There were a lot of tears." 

Mal winces. "Did you try and comfort them, or something?" 

Carlos's face is what she can only assume is a pained reflection of her own. "Yeah. But it didn't really work, so I just told them that they don't have to be boys anymore, and then I got them set up with chocolate milk." 

Chocolate milk is the ultimate comfort food. It's also the only way that any of their newest VKs will drink milk, which is proving both expensive in the finances department (Evie) and adventurous in the cereal department (primarily Jay). 

"Yeah, that's fine," Mal decides. If they're not actively wailing, everything is probably fine. "Do they want, like, to paint their room a different color?" 

"Crying," Carlos reminds her, like it's a complete explanation. "Didn't ask." 

"I can't ask them, they'll cry if I look at them wrong," Mal says, in a very measured and calm sort of tone. "Go back and ask if they want to paint the room, or cut their hair, or something." 

Carlos casts his most baleful look up at her. He really has to work for it too, because the universe is deeply unfair, and he's taller than she is now. "Crying." 

"Don't be a wimp." 

He groans. "I'm too young to be a single parent. You're aging me prematurely. Every time I do things like this I can feel my brain cells maturing." 

"Shut the fuck up and go talk to your kids." 

[themeeplord]

I'm so used to seeing myself as genderless so whenever I'm gendered/misgendered through pronouns or gestures I'm always confused. Especially when it's gestures!

The other day a dude at work gestured to me that I could go before him like you'd gesture to a lady and I was genuinely thrown for a loop by it, so confused! XD

I just walked past and said ok, not thinking of thanking him cause my brain was occupied with processing what just happened pfhdkjdkf

[2pen2wildfire]

Does being transneutral and FtM make sense to y'all? Cuz that's how I'm feeling about my gender right now