#fuck logan roy

[nyarataka]

Mis chamacos 🫶🫶

[pendragonsclotpole]

Started season three of Succession. I just need to rant about Kendall Freaking Roy.

For two seasons, I have been rooting for this man. Is he a saint? No. Not at all. Is he a good man? Deep down, I think he might be. Outwardly? No. But he tries, against everything he’s been raised as, he tries. He’s arrogant, a bit of a huge dick to his wife and kids. He’s cringeworthy, he has little to no self-awareness, he thinks he’s better than both of his siblings, and he has no idea how to read a freaking room except in those brief moments of enlightenment when he’s pushed to the brink and has no other choice. Also, he literally almost dies after a night of bad decisions and leaves someone behind to die in a car accident he was responsible for and never owns up to it.

But Kendall Roy, when backed into a corner, should have been the hero—the tragic hero—destined to fuck up by his own flaws and yet meant to still be the one we wanted to see succeed. He murders a guy and we see him wracked with guilt, blackmailed into submission and emotionally abused by his father. There was something here inherently sympathetic about him that superseded the classic “poor little rich boy” narrative and that was after he made a bunch of stupid decisions that led to the death of an innocent guy.

Kendall was a guy who consistently hungered for his father’s praise and who as the firstborn (sorry, second born, but as we all know, Connor Roy has been interested in politics from a very young age) desperately thought and expected he would inherit everything his father had built. Instead, his father strips away from him the chance to own up to his own mistakes for once in his life. I would have loved a storyline where Kendall stays at the scene of the accident, calls the cops, takes responsibility, is so guilty, and used the opportunity to fucking get out of his family’s messed up situation. But no. He stays, he endures, and when he finally breaks free again, it results in this:

A part of me expected Kendall to duck his head in there, with the bathtub full of water, and have a baptism scene that would wipe him of his previous mistakes in a reversal of the accident in the lake. But there was no water. Kendall lays there without getting any absolution and he returns to his old habits.

I don’t know if anyone else has experience with parental figures convinced they know everything and are always right, but if you do, then you know the deepest desire you have as a kid is to both make them proud, tell them to fuck off, build up everything they have, and also destroy it. It’s a paradoxical minefield of love and resentment. You want to wipe away every trace of them to prove you didn’t need them but any failure to do so is taken to be proof that they were right. Kendall’s constant attempts to defeat his father reminded me of that eternal struggle, and his mess ups felt like those lowest of lows. Succession gets so much right about generational trauma, but seeing the amount of arrogance Kendall has in these first episodes kills me on the inside because I just know he’s going to hit a new low and he won’t break free of his father’s hold. He’ll just be stuck in Logan’s grasp forever until Logan dies. It’ll be on Logan’s terms.

[deadpresidents]

Is your actual "serious" presidential historian view on President Trump that he is an "a**hole"? That's the best you can do?

Yes, that is my serious viewpoint. I had my serious hat on when I said it. Although I called him an "asshole", not an "a**hole" because I'm a grown-ass person and have experienced bad words before.

Is it the best I can do? No. But nobody can do much better than Trump's own first Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, who said that Trump is -- and this is a direct quote -- "a fucking moron".

[bitchthefuck1]

This season has had a lot of fucked scenes, but Kendall pressing Roman's face into his shoulder hard enough to tear open his stitches as a visualization of how the Roys weaponize familial affection was genuinely diabolical

[jessepinkmvn]

S1 OPENING TITLES | 3x09 | 4x02

[loveandthings11]

Very fucking important data set 😂

[stewykablooey]

funniest thing about stewy is that he’s a fucking anomaly in the roys social circle because not a single person in that family has any fucking friends. they genuinely only fraternize with family or waystar employees and then here comes stewy. the prodigal sons third-oldest friend best friend childhood friend. and guess what. he’s here to cause problems on purpose.

[romancanine]

I would give you some violets, but they withered all when my father died.

[house-in-nabraska]

oh shiv….

[technicolourtelevision]

Hugo: I'm a little concerned to freelance. Can I get a sign off from Karolina and Roman? Kendall: No, pal. No. Down-low. Just get on it. Unless… You want me to pull out the strap-on?

SUCCESSION || 4x04

[yomkippur]

the heir: kendall logan roy

"it's fucking lonely. i'm all apart."

my similar but umm very long roman roy post

veniennes, "DOOMED FROM THE BEGINNING"

jamaica kincaid, the autobiography of my mother

katie maria (heavensghost), "it lingers for your whole life"

veniennes, "DOOMED FROM THE BEGINNING"

sophokles tr. anne carson, an oresteia: agamemnon by aiskhylos, elektra by sophokles, orestes by euripides

key ballah, "on fathers"

desireé dallagiacomo, "origin story"

elizabeth lindsey rogers, "questions about the father"

ivan turgenev, first love

george r. r. martin, a storm of swords

stephen adly guirgis, the last days of judas iscariot

eric kripke, supernatural, "in my time of dying"

amatullah bourdon (butchniqabi), "and my father’s love was nothing next to god’s will"

sam fender, "seventeen going under"

john mayer, "in the blood"

salman rushdie, east, west

george r. r. martin, a storm of swords

ocean vuong, "someday i'll love ocean vuong"

[holly-mckenzie]

Princes and counties! Surely, a princely testimony, a goodly count, Count Comfect; a sweet gallant, surely! O that I were a man for his sake! or that I had any friend would be a man for my sake! But manhood is melted into courtesies, valour into compliment, and men are only turned into tongue, and trim ones too:

Much Ado About Nothing: Act IV, Scene 1, Lines 1963-1971.

[eriochromatic]

Maybe the poison drips through

Succession 4x10 “With Open Eyes”

[tabsnaomi]

kendall and roman, ca. 1995

[aeaeaexxzd]

there will never be a man as sopping wet as him on tv ever again

[monstersinthecosmos]

I read your answer, where did you say "Pandora is his actual type and Armand was his pet"

But how could Armand be just a pet for him? He is one of only three of his turned children. Marius speaks of him as the greatest love (along with Pandora). Although I see some hypocrisy in this. Marius loves no one as much as Pandora. But certainly more than just a pet

Well !

Babe the thing is that, I said what I said and it’s okay if you don’t agree!!! And I’m gonna take this opportunity to double down. (Assuming that you’re asking in good faith and not to pick on me for my analysis lmao please this fandom has traumatized me too much.)

(((TLDR the text never treats Armand like he’s Marius’s equal but also I never said that being a pet was a bad thing.)))

I want to start by talking about the concept of MAKER in VC and how canon tells us that vampires exist outside of human social constructs, including traditional family roles right? Like for example, the moment Gabrielle is turned, she ceases to be Lestat’s mother. 

But with Marius I think a lot about how he’s crafted a persona for himself, and tries to operate in a very rigid set of rules. And part of this is like, how determined he is to live by stoicism even when he’s a mess on the inside, but I also think about in TVL when he says that thing about how it’s easier to just knock a glass on the floor, and how he goes out of his way to appear more human and retain human gestures. 

So like, in the way a MAKER is kinda like, a parent/lover/companion/something too big for our tiny human minds to comprehend. We still get a Marius who is determined to be a father & mentor, and I think a lot about how his need for stoicism and humanity is probably also expressed with his need to be the paterfamilias. 

I’ve been also thinking a lot lately about Bad Fathers in Media—specifically people like Tony Soprano, Logan Roy, Roderick Usher—and how the toxic patriarchy affects their relationships with their sons. Tony Soprano in particular is one who resonates with me a lot when I think about Marius—Tony often indulges in anger because he enjoys being feared (he thinks it’s respect but it’s usually fear), and that’s a bit different on a material level from Marius “anger is too pathetic” de Romanus but they’re both sort of obsessed with the idea of stoicism and trying to be a ~ strong silent type ~ on the outside, even when they’re actually quite messy and emotional underneath.

But wait — put a pin in this for a second. We’ll come back to this, and the concept of fathers and sons. I want to pause real quick to swerve to clarify:

Armand being a pet isn’t a bad thing.

It wasn’t “pet (derogatory) 😒” —  it’s “pet (adorable creature that I care for) 🥰”.

Here’s the thing about MARIMAND if you will (I hate all the VC ship names oh my god theyre all hideous lmao) but like OKAY OKAY. THE THING IS. WHAT ARE WE HERE FOR IF WE’RE NOT INTO THE FUCKEDUPEDNESS ? 

Like I’m not telling anyone how to enjoy a ship, please have fun ! Do you! But to ME? That inter-species friction and 1,517 year age gap is like WHAT THE DYNAMIC IS ABOUT, THAT’S THE FLAVOR BABY!!! Anne Rice herself even said the book was about “a boy’s love for a monster” !!

WHAT’S THE POINT OF MONSTERFUCKER EROTICA IF HE’S NOT A MONSTER LOL

And YEAH I get that not everyone wants to read TVA as a monsterfucker story. That’s okay! It also reads as a savior fantasy. But I enjoy the messiness of it—I LIKE that Marius is an apex predator & ghoulish ancient thing. I like that it’s problematic. I LOVE that Marius really does love him, though, amidst all these other themes. I find it SO compelling.

But I never once said that Marius doesn’t love him. Of course Marius loves him. What I said is that he loves Armand the way we love a pet. I would fucking die for my cats. I regularly burst into tears looking at my cats because I love them so much. But they’re fucking cats lmao.

I never for one minute forget that Marius isn’t human. He’s operating on a whole different wavelength with different points of references and ethics and life experiences. Like, people get so hung up on Armand being 17 and IT WOULD BE JUST AS BAD IF HE WAS 18 OR 25 OR 30 LOL. A frail little human cannot comprehend !!!!!

What’s interesting with Marius’s fledglings though is that he tends not to treat them as equals. Like I think you could read TVA thinking: Once Marius turns him, they’ll be real partners. But no, they stick to their mentor/mentee, dom/sub, father/son roles. We don’t have tons of examples in canon of other maker/fledgling relationships but it’s not a coincidence that Roman Patriarch Marius maintains status over his fledglings. Even once Armand is a vampire, he’s still not Marius’s equal, and Marius’s age and power are still held over him. 

BUT LIKE.

That’s weird, right?

I MEAN THE DARK GIFT IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE but it’s interesting to me that Lestat & Gabrielle’s relationship completely dissolves once she’s a vampire, but Marius & Armand’s doesn’t.

(Sidebar that like, I think there’s also ways to acknowledge that if we think their relationship is good that it’s OKAY for them to maintain these roles because Armand WANTS to be his sub but let me focus on my point here. We should also make time to talk about diegetic BDSM and whether or not it’s appropriate to use a D/s framework for this discussion if the roles are baked into the text and not a choice for the characters and not a game they are agreeing to but that’s for another post.)

So back to the thing about fathers.

I’ve been thinking a lot about bad father characters, specifically Logan Roy and Tony Soprano (also bad mother Margaret Chenowith) and the impossible standards they give their children. Logan and Tony are both men who are disappointed in their sons for being soft, because they were able to provide better lives for their children. They both spoil their sons with all the material wealth that they did not have in their own lives. For Logan we see how badly he resents his kids—Kendall even accuses him of being jealous of what they have—and for Tony he seems to be at a loss on how to parse his feelings. Part of him literally hates AJ for being such a whimsical little fuckup, and at the same time he wants to protect that part of AJ and doesn’t even WANT AJ to follow in his footsteps. Still, he hates to see that AJ is spoiled with no work ethic, and doesn’t know how to set an example for him.

Everything in Venice is designed to spoil Armand with all the things Marius didn’t get—it’s such a specific & deliberate opposite of how Marius was turned. And I think him seeing Armand as a pet puts a little bit of distance between the hurt he’d feel if he thought of Armand as a true son, or even an equal. He doesn’t have to resent Armand for having it easier than he did, but also doesn’t have to feel extremely betrayed by Armand fitting in with the cult. Like, let’s never 4get that by the time Marius catches up with Armand, Armand is right at home and thriving with them. A CULT? THE THING THAT KILLED ME????? Marius has no idea what the fuck they did to him, he just knows that Armand settled in just fine and has discarded everything that Marius tried to teach him. 

I think these roles are appropriately all muddled because it’s VC—like we said, the No Social Constructs series—so like, how do we compare the words SON and PET and FLEDGLING and SUB, I’m not sure. But my point is that he’s never seen or treated Armand as an equal, and perhaps never even a full adult person. 

ARE THESE IDEAS CONFLICTING? A little. But that’s okay. Am I incoherent and ill-equipped to tackle this analysis or is it because Marius is not a consistent person and never quite lives up to the ideal he’s trying to be? Does he want Armand to be his pet but secretly has feelings? Does he fail at being a father figure? Is he brushing off his Big Big Emotions so that he doesn’t have to admit how wrecked and destroyed he is and how badly his feelings were hurt? Idk man. I’m sure you can send me another anon to tell me I’m wrong. 

I wonder sometimes if like, keeping Armand at this lower status (like a pet) actually protects Armand from Marius’s ire and disappointment. Marius is sort of a father, but sort of not. He’s crafted a role for himself that is never all the way sincere, and it allows him some space to protect his own feelings of betrayal and disappointment when it comes to Armand. Marius is also classically bad at following his own rules, and never quite sticks the landing on the people he’s trying to be. 

I can imagine a version of events where Armand does gain some ground with Marius, maybe pays his dues and matures into someone that Marius trusts and respects, but that’s not the version of events we get in canon. Marius turns Armand, Armand remains his pupil, they visit Kiev and Marius is jealous of Armand’s father, they make it all the way to the raid without Marius ever confiding about The Parents. Even in the present day, during a dispute, Marius tells Armand he has the savage & ignorant soul of a child. Even in the present day, Marius won’t stop calling him Amadeo!!!! 

And like!!!!! It feels like Marius is more upset about Santino wronging him by ruining his home and taking his toys than he is about what Santino did to ARMAND. It’s more about Marius’s own feelings and possessions than it is about Armand’s own feelings and experience of what happened. AN ARMAND FRIDGING, IF YOU WILL. 

Anyway.

By never seeing Armand as a complete person, Marius never has to feel threatened by him. We see this in toxic parents a lot. Like, I want you to be good, but I’m insecure if you’re better than me. Or I can never fully respect your feelings because I always see you as a child and not a fully grown adult. And the truth is that Marius is actually quite threatened by Armand, on the inside. He is very hurt. He cares what Armand thinks of him. He’s relieved at the end of BCtu when he assumes that Armand wants to open his heart again. 

So idk like. I think the books end with a little bit of a hope for them; we see a lot of growth and self-acceptance from Marius in the last book and it’s reasonable to assume that he and Armand might have a long chat and nice long cry and work it out. I don’t think it’s completely set in stone, but it’s nice to think about! A nice happy ending. And I wonder if this is when Marius finally takes Armand seriously and listens to what he has to say without demeaning him! 

Am I gonna add 2000 more words to this point by tying it what the whole like “I fear him because I could love him again” thing in TVA means? No I’m not. But like. Again! It’s okay to be a pet, I think Armand liked being his pet. :)