#from what i know about miraculous ladybug it does in fact Have Problems

[spidermanifested]

saw a post last night saying that everyone should be into at least 1 "problematic media" and thrn the op kept getting mad at people who tagged it like, miraculous ladybug, and well. i think that might be a little bit your own fault there comrade. like if youre not going to share what you mean by "problematic" with the class

[sairenharia]

Why Chloe Deserved A Miraculous

Its a thought that's been stewing in my head and the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was true. Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous.

From a Doylist Perspective.

When there is conversations of if Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous is always presented from a Watsonian perspective. For those who don't know, Watsonian means the perspective of someone inside the story. A character. Doylist is the perspective of those in the real world. The author and audience.

The problem I see from fandom discourse is how often people don't actually consider the tools in a story. Often they take a Watsonian perspective, talk about what is right and sensible and should be how things work if this was a real situation. But the thing about stories is they have messages. They have tools and metaphors and themes to help display these messages. Sure, shows are about entertainment, but a story always has some kind of point. It may not be a moral lesson, it may not be some grand philosophy, but any story worth telling says SOMETHING. It takes a stance. The Fast and the Furious is all about doing cool stunts with cars, but it also has a message of doing things for family because if you just want to see cool car stunts, just go watch cool car stunts, but no, people want at least a little humanity in the car stunts, so there is a message of family. Sharing is caring, do your best, the heat death of the universe comes for us all, the messages can be vast, but there's some point of emotional reality to invest us in this specific media.

If we talk about Chloe and the Miraculous from a Watsonian perspective, no, she is not entitled to a Miraculous. No one is entitled to an object of power. Not even Marinette nor Adrien are entitled to their Miraculous.

But superpowers aren't real. Superpowers have always been a tool to emphasize a point. The stories of superman only focused on his powers are boring, but when you tell stories of how he tries to fit into a world that is not made for him, stories of how much he loves this world despite how easy it could be to be cruel, it gets interesting. The reason superhero comics started is there was a want to show that there can be incredibly powerful people who choose to be good. To choose to make the world a better place.

Superpowers made just to be cool and show off are boring. There is only so much you can watch a fight with a cool power before it gets dull and repetitive. But you relate the powers, the struggles of using the powers, to the person wielding them, the story has a lot more staying power. The powers say something about the person, and is part of their development.

And honestly, Miraculous is a good case for why this is important.

Because good god, most of the superhero team is boring.

And I don't just mean because they're good people, so there's no spice, though that's also true, but because the powers aren't really used to emphasize anything about the character. Max has portals. Why? His mom wants to be an astronaut, but we never really hear about Max wanting to travel. Doorman is a better example of a portal hero because he loves going to other places and learning about them.

Now portals are good for a tactician....except Max is never the tactician despite the fact we know he's brilliant and is good at video games. He just does as he's told by Ladybug for where he should put his portals. Its so close, but its not utilized.

And that is the case for most of the superheroes. Like the bones are there, but nothing is properly utilized. Sabrina is definitely a dog, good at getting things, and is in fact well practiced in recognizing what things may or may not be important. But we've never actually gotten to focus on her BEING a superhero, she only had a small cameo with the power, basically. Same with Ivan, really. They're pretty perfect for their powers and it suits their personalities, but none of it is EXPLORED. And that's the case with most of the heroes.

Juleka and Rose were pretty good at using the Miraculous to develop more of someone's character and emphasize a strength about another in turn. These are good hero episodes because we learned more about them and their journey.

Kagami's first episode with the dragon showed off more of her, such as she could be reckless, which is new information, but we learn a lot about her without it, and nothing new beyond that.

Luka could have actually been incredibly good because the snake both emphasizes a big part of him, and something he needs to work on. Luka is someone who steps back and watches. He observes. However, he has a problem where he often is too willing to step back. But with the snake needs someone who can observe AND act. So its a Miraculous that uses an important part of his personality, but could have also helped him grow.

And the rest are just...nothing.

There is a little for Nino and Alya. Nino is definitely more bold about defending his friends than he was at first, and Alya learns to be better about secrets, but these are the primary secondary heroes. We should have seen a ton of impact and development due to them having the Miraculous.

Here is the stance Miraculous should be taking in their story.

The desperation of those trapped and the power of being given good options.

Most of the Akumas are people who are trapped. They feel powerless. They are desperate to escape their problem and feel like they have no proper recourse with things are they are. How accurate this is varies, but this is how they feel in the moment, and that is what Gabriel preys on. These people agree to the deal because they don't feel like they will be helped any other way.

Ladybug and Chat Noir are meant to bring hope to those who felt hopeless and chose a terrible way to try and escape. They are support. They are a hand people desperately need.

So by that same token, the Miraculous should be a good way for people who feel trapped to be given an option, OR give those people the ability to extend their own hands to help others.

While it doesn't have to every time, it should often be the case those who are given a Miraculous; A, dealing with a huge problem and the Miraculous helps them solve that problem, regardless to the Akuma being related. Like if Juleka was working on trying to speak up even if the Akuma wasn't her parents and the Tiger still helped her do that. B, they are related to the Akuma and why they feel trapped, so they are working through their own issues with the important person. Like Rose when Juleka felt guilty. Or C, the person wants to find a way to help in general and kind of go how it went with Nino becoming Carapace. Where they were trying to be that hand a person needed, and earn the Miraculous, and that helps them on their journey to provide more support and help.

But its often it is someone they know, but them being the hero doesn't REALLY matter. Penalteam, the people were just there, these specific people didn't matter. Why did Zoe need to be Vesperia? Anyone could have taunted Chloe and she got turned into a banana real fast, her being the Bee didn't really bring a lot, to the bee, to her, or even to Chloe, and then she proceeded to just not bring much as the Bee, to the story, or herself.

Now part of this problem is that Marinette is not allowed to not learn a lesson, and has to be the one to save the day. These heroes do have skills. They have things they could be good at. But often....the plan is just what Marinette says. These heroes are not allowed to have agency.

They can't make decisions on their own.

Often times, they're just bodies being told to do the power without the ability to make the decision how and when. Sometimes they let the heroes do things and make decisions, but nine times out of ten, its Marinette who says who does what and when and her mental health is degrading because of it.

The Akumas are stories that always at least tell us something about the person because we see what problems hit them hard. There is something to learn, a bit of conflict to develop from.

The Miraculous should be following that trend, but in a positive way, but...doesn't.

All that being said.

Chloe was entitled to the Miraculous.

Because here is the stance Miraculous takes.

Someone is trapped in a situation and chooses to lash out violently and while that violence can not be permitted to continue, the heroes offer their support so the victim can feel like they have another option.

This is the story of Miraculous crystalized. People who feel alone and helpless are easily convinced to hurt others until someone is willing to help them despite this harm.

Chloe is the story of Miraculous.

Akumas are a metaphor.

And Chloe is the reality.

A child who is alone. Who feels trapped in her situation. Who doesn't know what else to do. So she does the only thing she knows how. She lashes out. She hurts people. She keeps them distant because then it doesn't hurt as much when they leave, or when they treat her like dirt.

Chloe is an Akuma personified, but her problems are brief moments. They're not a bad day that someone took advantage of. They are ever present and continuous and more over, reinforced to continue.

Chloe knows being a brat gets her what she wants from her father and was never taught to not be like that. Because he didn't discipline her, because her mother acted like that, because all adults around her was staff. Making demands is what she was TAUGHT and learned, through observation and guidance.

A behavior she continued to do with kids, and she found out teachers responded to the same threats and was never properly stopped. Other kids, reasonably, didn't want to deal with her, or submitted to her like Sabrina.

Chloe was not never taught how to be good. She was, in fact, very much taught to NOT be good. Her parents both set a terrible example. Her father is a corrupt politician. He may spoil her, but he we know he bribes and blackmails people, plus, you know, abandoned his daughter and technically kidnapped Zoe. This is not a paragon of a man. Then there was her mother. But she had a choice, listen to the man who had to weasel and cheat and play back handed games to get what he wanted, or the woman who got anything and everything she wanted...of course she would try to be the woman who seemed to get everything her way.

Because if her mother got everything she wanted, if Chloe was like her, maybe she could get everything SHE wanted.

Except it wasn't working.

But Chloe wasn't taught it was because she was cruel. She just started to believe she wasn't GOOD ENOUGH.

Maybe if she was as great as her mother, it would work.

By the time she would be old enough to recognize that wasn't how the world worked...well, by then, most of her peers hated her.

And here is something I think goes under the radar about Zoe.

Zoe knows how to act like Chloe. Audrey didn't blink at it. Zoe defaulted to the same behavior as Chloe. Zoe said she put on an act and she was tired of it.

Zoe WAS CHLOE.

And we know what happened with Zoe. Zoe stopped acting like Chloe. And then she got bullied. People were mean and cruel and put cockroaches in her locker and she only had one friend.

I'm sure that's why Zoe moved to Paris. Zoe went to her mom because she wanted a clean slate. She wanted the bullying to stop.

Even then, she struggled to stop. She defaulted to her habit, and we see that she CONTINUED the act around the hotel for some weeks after, because it was a hard habit to break.

But then...

Zoe got support. A hand was held out to her. Marinette gave her a chance, and so did everyone else, and Zoe took it because she wanted to be herself and she wanted to stop being cruel. Of course she's nice. She was given the space to be so.

Chloe is never given that support.

Chloe doesn't know how to be kind. She doesn't know how to be nice.

But the greatest tragedy is Chloe does know how to be GOOD.

Out of all the heroes, besides Chat, to a lesser degree Alya, and Alix and Luka by nature of their Miraculous, Chloe shows the most agency as a superhero. All the other heroes have their hands held by Ladybug. She tells them what to do, to an overly specific degree, and they are just bodies to use a tool. Chloe? Chloe acts on her own. To good and bad effect. Discounting the whole Queen Wasp break down, just when Chloe is actually acting as a superhero, she doesn't wait for Ladybug to tell her everything all the time. She calls out to her father, which was a mistake, but then there is every other time she's Queen Bee...

And she's fantastic at it.

Miraculer, she almost had Mayura's Miraculous.

Star Train, she gets people away from the Akuma.

In Bakerix, she's the last the to leave the train car.

In Ladybug, she's defending Sabrina.

In Style Queen, played Style Queen in an effort to find a way to save Adrien.

In Heroes Day, she is a great teammate. Keep in mind, everyone on the team knows who Chloe is. Ladybug was desperate and doesn't fully trust Chloe as a general rule. Rena Rouge and Carapace definitely don't trust her at all. Chat Noir is the only one who believes in Chloe as a person.

And yet, throughout the entire fight, Chloe is keeping up and picking up the slack with everyone else. She fights, she keeps civilians from being hurt, her synergy is on fire despite the lack of trust. When Rena Rouge and Carapace go down, she is quick to try and protect them and even after two EXTREMELY dangerous Akuma show up by way of her parents, who are both gunning for her real hard, she holds her own for a while and even then, she had to be mind controlled to stop and to feel negative emotions. It took FOUR AKUMAS gunning for her specifically to corrupt her, akums who are made to mess her up mentally to boot. When they confront Gabriel at the end, she prepares venom without being asked, to have a back up for taking him down. She makes decisions and when she was trusted to act as a hero, they are largely good ones.

And she never once complained about the mental hardship of what she went through. Because that's the thing, all her times as Queen Bee are super intense. They are her loved ones she's fighting, they are incredibly powerful Akumas. She fought a frickin' army.

And everyone...

Just insults her.

She risked her life for people and no one cared.

She fought her family and no one cared.

Chloe doesn't know how to be nice. Nor kind. But she was so good. And while the next day, people appreciated her, it was only a day.

And the tragedy is Chloe didn't immediately go back to being a bully. After Despair Bear, Chloe's bullying habits took an extreme nose dive. We only see her being unreasonably cruel a few times. After Maledikator, the only time is when she bullies Aurore and when she teamed up with Marinette, but also Marinette was with her and they were both doing it for fear of losing Adrien reasons. Not reasonable, but also not just to be cruel and honestly, her plan was fairly benign. She wanted Kagami to leave, not even humiliate her. And even Aurore is because Chloe was reaching the point she did in Miraculer where she was doubting Ladybug's trust in her and as she is want to do, she lashed out.

Most of the time when we see Chloe, what we see is her bragging about being Queen Bee. Which, sure, isn't a great thing...

But better a braggart than a bully. And when things go wrong, she tries to use her status to help reassure and guide people, which is actually a pretty good idea. Akumas are attracted to negative emotions. If she can reassure them, then less likely of them getting akumatized. It may be bragging, but it could help.

Chloe may not have been picture perfect nice, but we literally have an entire classroom full of perfectly nice people. She may not be humble, but bragging is not a damnable offense. But Chloe was legitimately trying to be a better person. She put herself in between others and danger. She had faith and belief that there were solutions. Even without the Miraculous, she tried to help people.

She may have wanted appreciate and gratitude for it, but what's even sadder is she didn't require it.

Chloe believed in Ladybug for a long time. She believed Ladybug would trust her again. She believed she could be given a Miraculous again, and all on her own, ALL ON HER OWN, she was trying to be a better person.

Its actually amazing how good Chloe was being despite the fact no one was helping her.

Because that is the thing.

Zoe got support and help.

Chloe didn't.

Every. Single. Time. Chloe tried to do something different, something not cruel, she is rejected. She tries to join the art club and she's mocked out of it. She tries to be class representative, a job no one else wanted for years, and she loses it as soon as someone did challenge her. She auditions, legitimately, for a music video, with eight years of practice, and she loses it because she isn't nice enough.

She stops bullying, tries to be a reassuring presence, and she is treated with suspicion and derision.

And still.

And STILL.

That isn't what breaks her.

What breaks her is the realization the only time where her efforts were appreciated was taken away. And even then, she holds onto the pieces. Holds onto hope that maybe she would be given a new chance.

Her parents are in danger. The reason she was given she couldn't be a hero is because she and her loved ones would be in danger.

Except her loved ones were in danger.

She was in danger.

Not having a Miraculous didn't change anything. It didn't keep them safe, it didn't keep her safe.

And its only then, after months of no one believing in her for more than two days, of no one holding out their hand, helping her, supporting her, believing her, with the one person she thought DID believe in her proved that she didn't believe in her, and couldn't even give her the safety that not having a Miraculous was supposed to bring.

For months, Chloe only thought Ladybug believed she could be good.

Adrien wanted her to be less cruel, but Chloe knew her being good wasn't necessary for him.

Nor was it for Sabrina.

But Ladybug?

Ladybug needed her to be good to believe in her, and she thought Ladybug did.

Chloe was able to largely bite back her desires to lash out at people based purely on the fact one person, ONE SINGULAR PERSON, needed her to be good, and believed in her ability to be so. It got her derision. It got her suspicion. It got people comparing her to villains. It got her dismissal. But she still tried. She still believed.

A person who didn't really believe in Chloe very much.

And there is also the Watsonian argument that Marinette doesn't owe it to Chloe to help her improve AND THIS IS INCREDIBLY VALID and honestly, in a perfect world, it would be great if it was Adrien who helped Chloe improve.

Or you know, Zoe. Someone who has a clean slate with Chloe and understands where she's coming from and could help her.

But no, this is the Marinette Has To Solve Everything Show.

So from a Doylist view, it IS Marinette who has to help Chloe, but also the Watsonian problem could be helped if it was CLEARLY ESTABLISHED that Marinette knows she doesn't HAVE to help Chloe, and people aren't pressuring her to do so (coughBustiercough) because that is a bad message...

But Marinette can CHOOSE to help her and make that clear.

Because Marinette has seen a lot of Chloe and could understand that she really does just need a little more help. That Chloe needed just a bit more support and help. And, you know, didn't actively encourage Chloe to please her abuser.

But we're going from the Doylist view and we can solve the Marinette being the one to help Chloe problem by not having it be Marinette, but LADYBUG.

And this?

This is why I say Chloe was entitled to a Miraculous.

Because Chloe is the reality of the stance of the show, and so helping her problem with the metaphors would go a long way.

You see, Chloe doesn't know Ladybug is Marinette. And Marinette knows being Ladybug means being the bigger person. Ladybug believes in people. Ladybug helps everyone she can. Its not about the victim helping their bully, its the superhero choosing to help someone who NEEDS HELP.

Chloe is stuck in her situation. Her mother will always be emotionally abusive. Her father will always be an enabler. She can try to change, but no one will BELIEVE in her change. She will be derided and mocked and treated poorly because no one is willing to give her the chance to grow, and they certainly won't help.

Frankly, its a miracle that Chloe's Akumas are so merciful.

Because Banana Queen is the most destructive of Chloe's Akuma forms. Most of Chloe's Akuma forms don't care about HURTING people. They care about WINNING. She either wants to win or for people to just listen to her.

But give Chloe the Bee Miraculous, and suddenly things change.

Chloe feels like she has OPTIONS as Queen Bee. She doesn't feel she has to meet her mother's expectations as much if she's Queen Bee. She has people who trust and depend on her. At least right after she saves people, she gets a little praise, a little belief.

And people may say being a hero for glory and attention is a bad thing, but the thing is, Chloe's need for glory and attention is about being ACKNOWLEDGED. As feeling like people value and care about her. This is a BASIC HUMAN NEED and she doesn't know another way to get it. Its not like she's demanding physical things for her heroics.

She just wants to be appreciated.

By giving Chloe a Miraculous, she is given the tools to try and be good. She is given an escape from her situation. She is given SUPPORT in her efforts because the other heroes have to support her.

And over time...

That trust will grow.

Because what Chloe doesn't know, all her classmates are the other heroes.

And suddenly, all her classmates will see her as a different person. They will see what she's like when the chips are down. How much effort she's willing to put in. How seriously she takes the job.

Is she still a braggart? Sure. Is she still rude as hell? Absolutely.

But she will risk it all to help people, without asking for anything in return except a little faith.

Chloe is entitled to a Miraculous.

Because her story without a Miraculous is a story of a little girl who no one wanted to help, who were unwilling to offer her help because she lashed out while trying to survive a situation she couldn't escape, and because it wasn't super charged by a terrorist, she was deemed unworthy of it and instead deserving of isolation and constant emotional abuse.

But with a Miraculous?

Chloe is a girl who, when given a little faith, a little trust, a little help, returned it tenfold. Who puts her all in trying to be the best hero she could be. Is she imperfect? Sure. But she's giving it her all. (And frankly, she's spicy and it makes for entertaining character dynamics. You can have a character be a jerk and good, tsunderes are popular for a reason.) And as she gets more trust, as she gets more help, as she is offered that hand of help over and over again, she would continue to improve.

And as she's given power, she uses that same faith to figure out how to offer her hand to others. To help them. To spare them the same pain she suffered.

Because that is what given to the Akuma victims. They are given a little help, and a little power to break free of their magically abusive mindsets.

To have someone go from the continuing the cycle of abuse to someone who would save other people from that?

That is a real superhero story.

Chloe is undeserving from a Watsonian perspective.

But she's so very deserving from a Doylist perspective.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

When I first saw a Miraculous Ladybug salt post it was the usual Lila takes away all of Marinette's friends Adrien does nothing Marinette becomes super successful Lila gets exposed blah blah blah

When I see posts like the ones you post where people give actual constructive criticism about the characters and not favor one character over the other has made me realize that these are fictional characters and its not their fault they are the way they are. Also they're 14 what kind of 14 year old makes good choice's? Especially when they have the fate of the world/universe on their shoulders

If anything the character I really blame is Master Fu. He was obviously meant to be some sort of mentor figure for them or at least Marinette's mentor. He was the one to tell and encourage Marinette to keep everything a secret from Adrien. Comparing him to other mentor like figures in the world of superheros he isn't really all that helpful.

Compared to DC Ladybug and Chat Noir do not have any adult superheros to help them. In DC younger superheros have entire superhero families to help them out and if not that than they have other adult superheros to help them or they have an actual team. We know that other miraculous holders exist and the order is back I have a vague idea as to why they can't help but I still find it weird as to why they are around if not to help. Like phones and the internet exist do they not?

Sorry for they rant, I want to know what your thoughts are on this?

Your rant was fine! I don't think that I've talked in depth about mentors as a concept and I should both because I love mentors and because Miraculous has completely failed to give us any good ones. This is a writing failure not because good mentors are required, but because the show chose to have mentors characters and then not use them.

Before I get into the topic at large, I want to start with a brief discussion of mentors in shows aimed at young children as Miraculous' intended audience is young children and that fact is worth keeping in mind when discussing what Miraculous did wrong and some of the ways that you can fix it.

Shows aimed at kids generally avoid adult characters in major roles for the very obvious reason that the intended audience is kids, so you want the kid and teen characters to be the stars. This doesn't mean that adults aren't allowed to save the day or have important roles. It just means that they should be used sparingly. This is why mentors are a great addition to kids shows. They allow adult characters to be deeply involved with the plot without anyone expecting them to intervene because that's not their role in the story. They're not here to be the hero. They're here to guide the hero.

One of the powerful things about this setup is that it allows the writers to give the real kids watching at home real advice about real life problems. For example, if Marinette comes to Fu to talk about feeling alone and overwhelmed, then he can give her real, practical advice that would apply to anyone who is feeling alone and overwhelmed, but no one expects him to directly intervene because he's supposed to say hidden.

A lot of these elements apply to mentors in media aimed at older audiences, the rules just apply for different reasons, so I'm going to stop reminding you that Miraculous is for elementary school kids and focus on the failed mentor issue as it would be an issue no matter what Miraculous' intended audience was.

When it comes to bad mentoring, a lot of people focus on Fu and I get why. At first glance, he's the classic wise old Asian man who is supposed to be there to guide the protagonist on her mystical journey (not getting into the racism issue here, just know that I'm aware of it and that Miraculous dropped the ball on this in a lot of ways even though they absolutely could have made it work.) But Fu isn't the main focus of my ire because, while the writers seemed to have designed him around the mystic Asian trope, they never actually wrote him like a mentor.

He doesn't train Marinette and Adrien in the ways of the miraculous. He just sneakily gives them their miraculous and then disappears from their lives for quite some time. So he's not around to get them properly started on their hero journey. That's strike one for the mentor role.

Strike two is the fact that we never actually see him mentoring Marinette. I don't think that she ever went to him for advice? If she did, then it wasn't a big element of their relationship. When I think of Marinette and Fu, I picture her going to him to grab a miraculous or two before booking it back to the ongoing fight and that's about it. The guardian training she supposedly had was all off screen, so we have no idea how close they were or what he even taught her outside of potion making. Even that wasn't really him teaching her something. It was them working together to figure out a puzzle because Fu never completed his own training, making it impossible for him to properly train a successor.

Strike three is the fact that - outside of the King Monkey incident - Fu never gets directly involved in helping team miraculous. He's never gives them feedback on fights or works with Ladybug and Chat Noir to strengthen their bond. He doesn't even help them track down the two missing miraculous or hand out the temporary miraculous on Marinette's behalf, a choice I still find super weird. "This fight is super hard and we need help, so I'm going to leave Chat Noir to fight alone while I go get said help!" is absolutely nonsense logic and one of the many examples of the writers desperately needing to let Marinette hand her responsibilities off. Why wasn't this Fu's job?

This brings us to fix one: if you want the guardian to be a mentor - which is a role they arguably should have - then the guardian needs to be actively involved in Marinette and Adrien's lives in an on screen way. For this to work in the context of Miraculous - a show that really wants to focus on the teen characters - then the guardian probably needs a teenage apprentice who isn't Marinette and that apprentice will be the one doing the mentoring.

My pick for this is Luka for two big reasons. The first one is that his calm personality is perfectly suited to a mentor. The second one is that it seems insane to me to have the snake be a temp holder. The snake should be watching every fight, but staying out of the actual fight so that they can use their power whenever it's needed. That's the perfect role for a mentor character to fill. Someone who is active in the plot, but only ever as a support because their power stops them from getting more involved.

Moving on to the bigger issue.

As I said up above, Fu doesn't actually get my ire. While I wanted him to be a mentor, he never once filled that role and he didn't really need to because the show already had mentor figures that it was actively using and using poorly. Those figures are the ancient magical creatures that follow our heroes around, dispensing terrible advice whenever they feel like it. That's right, as much as it pains me, Miraculous' biggest mentor failures are Tikki and Plagg.

The miraculous did not need to have magical creatures associated with them. They could have just been magical jewelry that Fu handed out and explained. Instead, the writers chose to give us the Kwamis and I don't disagree with that choice. I like the Kwmais! The problem is that they're used in the most lackluster, asinine ways you possibly could.

The Kwamis are not presented as oblivious to the world and unable to give advice. They give lots of advice! The problem is that advice tends to suck! I can think of many examples of times where the Kwamis made everything worse, but let's look at the one that grinds my gears the most: Plagg's actions in season four.

In Rocketear - the episode where Nino gives Adrien an incredibly inaccurate picture of why he knows Alya's secret identity - we get this:

Adrien: I still can't believe Ladybug entrusted Alya and Nino with those Miraculous. Plagg: Of course she did. She's the Guardian. Adrien: But they're a couple and they know each other's secret identities. Plagg: So...? Adrien: So, why does she make it a rule that we can't know each other's identities but it's okay for them? Plagg: She's the Guardian, the Grandmaster Cheese Ripener, and you and I are just cheese on the platter. She decides what's on the menu.

Hey, Plagg, maybe don't tell your clearly upset and vulnerable teenage holder to just suck it up and deal with it when he's feeling alone and betrayed? Maybe encourage him to talk to Ladybug about his feelings so that he can get the full story? Knowing that they learned their identities during the Scarlet Moth incident would probably do a lot to smooth over Adrien's hurt feelings.

What's even more rich is that the episode Kuro Neko lets Plagg go off on Marinette for not appreciating Chat Noir:

Ladybug: What's gotten into him? I didn't do anything. Plagg: Didn't do anything? Well yeah, you did! You've been neglecting a very classy piece of camemebert on your plate for too long! And as a result it got runny, and moldy! Ladybug: What? Cat Noir never gave me any camembert. Plagg: Of course not, Cat Noir is the camembert! For a while now, you've been neglecting this camembert— I mean Cat Noir, and going on adventures with the all other cheeses! Ladybug: But he should be happy about it, it gives him more time off. Plagg: Cat Noir doesn't wanna have time off, Ladybug! He is in love with you! And your persistent calling on all the other heroes has broken his heart.

Dude, if you saw all of this going on, then why didn't you say something??? You and Tikki are in the same location for multiple hours five days a week. Go tell her how your holder is feeling and figure out how to fix the situation! Or be an actual mentor and encourage Adrien to talk to someone about his feelings! At the very least, cut up a wheel of cheese, sit down, and listen to your kid so that he feels less alone!

Also what exactly do you want Ladybug to do to fix the problem you presented? Let Paris burn until Chat Noir decides to show up to today's fight? Refuse to use the temp heroes even if it means losing a fight? None of those are valid solutions when the problem presented in the episode is Chat Noir missing fights. Especially when we know that he's doing it on purpose. Why are you yelling at her instead of working with her to come up with an actual solution? You are such a terrible mentor...

To be clear, I don't think any of this is intentional. I don't think the writers want Plagg and Tikki to come across as actively hurting their teenage charges via bad advice. I think Plagg and Tikki are supposed to be seen as good and helpful, but they can't fill that role because they're tools of the narrative and the narrative has really wacky views on what good advice is. Thus nonsense like the example I discussed above or Plagg and Tikki picking new holders instead of guiding their holders through an identity reveal.

I personally adore letting Plagg and Tikki be good mentors in my own stuff. It falls under the same category as Alya and Nino being terrible friends on screen. I acknowledge the problem and then delight in fixing it by writing the exact opposite setup because what is fanfiction for if not heavy self indulgence?

[theerurishipper]

Ladynoir and (In)Equality

For me personally, the most important thing in any relationship is that both partners are equals in that dynamic. I think that's a reasonable expectation to have. And Ladynoir did fulfill that requirement for me in the first 3 seasons. Even though Ladybug did most of the leadership stuff by making the plans and directing Chat Noir on what to do, it was understood that this was a mutual agreement. They both understood what they were good at, and their dynamic evolved accordingly. Chat Noir was content to follow her lead and Ladybug was content to make the plans and direct Chat Noir.

Season 2 saw the introduction of the inequality that shattered this balanced dynamic between the two, and quite frankly the later seasons only made it worse. It started in Syren, as we all know, where Chat Noir first expressed his displeasure at being left out of the loop when Ladybug was privy to important information that was being kept from him. Of course, Master Fu arrived to barely smooth things over before the issue was dropped for the season and never brought up again. Their dynamic remained as it was, but the cracks began to form here.

The introduction of Ladybug being the Guardian in Season 4 changed this established dynamic, obviously, and Ladybug began to give the Miraculous out to other holders. Keeping Chat Noir out of the loop began to become her MO, and she effectively replaced him with Rena Furtive in all but name. The central conflict of the season was the cracks forming in their relationship because of her new responsibilities and her secret keeping. And the resolution to this, as stated in Kuro Neko and Risk, is that even if he's no longer her partner, she still likes him best.

Now, the previous Ladynoir dynamic was one of equality, where they knew their roles and acted upon them. They were equals, and Ladybug's leadership in their pair was an informal one, one that was mutually agreed upon by them. The introduction of the Guardian role for Ladybug changes this from a mutually agreed upon dynamic to one where Ladybug is, for all intents and purposes, his boss. She is officially his leader, in the sense that if she so wished, he would be obliged to hand his Miraculous over to her. In the sense that she would be well within her rights to replace him if she so desired (which she does do). She is his superior, and he is no more important than the other temporary holders, with the sole exception that he holds his Miraculous permanently (which has now been exacerbated by the fact that all of them are permanent holders now).

Chat Noir received a demotion for no fault of his own, which he did not want, and someone else was promoted to replace him in the position he once occupied. Rena Furtive is Ladybug's special partner. Chat Noir is not Rena Furtive's equal, and he is definitely not Ladybug's equal.

This is not about a woman making more money than a man. She isn't just more successful than him, and this isn't about him being insecure about her being better than him. The problem is that Ladybug is Chat Noir's direct superior, and she has power over him. She has the power to call him when she needs him, and if not him, she'll get someone else. She has the resources to figure out his identity without him being none the wiser. She has the power to replace him if she wishes. Far be it from him to allow her to lead of his own accord, now he is obliged to follow her orders. She has the power to control what he knows and how he acts, and she has the power to keep vital information from him.

None of this is inherently "bad." But when you look at it from the context of them being on a path to a romantic relationship with each other, that's where the problems begin. Two people in a relationship should not have a dynamic where one has so much power over the other. Ladybug has so much power that she is able to slide a third teammate into their partnership and slowly push him away from his role at her side. She, quite unfortunately, can and has abused his trust because she had the resources to do so. The only opportunity he had in Season 4 to make his own choices that were not dictated by Ladybug's rules was when he quit. The final takeaway from this Ladynoir conflict is that Chat Noir is her favorite subordinate now (because Rena Furtive has replaced him), and just because they aren't equals anymore doesn't mean she doesn't want him around.

And, no, this was not corrected in Season 5. Season 5 was a return to their original dynamic, not because Ladybug and Chat Noir worked around this new shift in their relationship to find a way to overcome this new power imbalance. It's because Ladybug's power was forcibly taken away from her by a third party, and the only reason Chat Noir is her special partner again is because there is no one else left. But the end of Season 5 sees everyone come back, as permanent holders no less, and Chat Noir is once again demoted to his role as "just another holder like any other."

With the establishment of the Ladybug and the Black Cat Miraculous as two halves of a duo, equals in power, you'd expect them to be, well, equals. Me being upset about the inequality of these characters isn't with regards to screentime, or my wish for Adrien to be the main character or anything. My wish is for Adrien to be a character of his own. My wish is for the show to stop promoting such unhealthy dynamics as cute and fine. If they had simply made Adrien's role out to be the love interest, if they had just literally made him Ken who is content with just being Barbie's trophy boyfriend from the very beginning, if that was all his role has ever been and was meant to be from the start, I wouldn't be complaining so much. But the one they reduced into the role of Marinette's prize, the one over whom she has so much power, is the abuse victim whose arc is about self-actualization. And it paints a very disturbing picture. That far be it from Chat Noir to expect any kind of equal treatment from Ladybug, he's going to have put aside any discomforts or issues he has with their relationship to settle for being her favorite by virtue of nostalgia.

And it's just... bad, on a narrative level. Despite its ambitious introduction of so many plot points, the focus of this show has always been its romance. The main narrative goal of the series is for Ladybug and Chat Noir to get together. So, when your narrative hinges on these two characters getting together, and you decide to introduce such a power dynamic into the mix, saying "I still like you," isn't the fix that it's cracked up to be. If they are supposed to be the relationship around which the show is built, Chat Noir should be Ladybug's special partner, he should be her equal and not just another holder whom she likes better than everyone else. Ladynoir's relationship is directly tied to their partnership, and their dynamic as partners is the basis for any future romantic relationship between them. Introducing such an inequality between them in their partnership does affect their ability to be able to get together, and not in a good way.

This isn't a bad plot point. I like Ladybug being the Guardian, I like that they didn't just brush off the fact that there would be some changes in their dynamic. What I dislike is the way it was resolved, with Ladybug essentially saying that they would never be equals but she still likes him. A power imbalance does not a healthy relationship make. Ladynoir do not have a relationship where they are both completely aware of everything they should know. Chat Noir really cannot do anything in their dynamic, because Ladybug has all the control over everything. It's Ladybug controlling this information and Chat Noir accepting that he'll never be treated the way he wants to be treated, because he's been conditioned to believe his feelings don't matter. And she never did end up correcting this, and the conflict as it is ended with him forgiving her for everything even though she never apologized, and accepting that this is how it's going to be.

And it's not good. This isn't the Ladynoir I signed up for, honestly. I signed up for the Ladybug who accepted Chat Noir unconditionally and the Chat Noir who supported Ladybug through everything. I did not sign up for Ladybug trying to pull a Gabe and Chat Noir only being her emotional support who suppresses his own needs for her. The Ladynoir conflict and its less than satisfying resolution caused irreparable damage to the Ladynoir dynamic (it's irreparable because the writers don't see a problem with it and so they'll never fix it), and this has only continued into Season 5, which said "why fix it when I can make it worse."

[ilikekidsshows]

I know you’re more of an “Adrien centered” criticism/defense blog but I am curious about your opinion on this.

What is your opinion on the “Chloe deserves/doesn’t deserve redemption” situation or the “Chloe wasn’t meant to be redeemed and there for what happened to her is fair game” stance?

---

My thoughts on the Chloé situation are kinda complex. Back when the show only had three seasons, I did think Chloé’s character trajectory made sense. Sure, she’d saved people when she was acting as Queen Bee, but she still treated her classmates the same. In fact, she started treating Sabrina worse than before because she considered being anything other than Queen Bee hanging out with Ladybug was slumming it. For me, it really was a 50/50 on whether or not Chloé would be redeemed or fall into actual villainy.

Because, here’s how I saw it: I didn’t think Chloé was an actual villain-villain in seasons 1-3. She was Marinette’s school nemesis and a decidedly defanged one. Marinette was scared of her exactly once, in Origins, a flashback episode meant to showcase how much more confident being Ladybug has made Marinette that she views Chloé as small potatoes. The season 3 finale could have been the culmination of an arc where Marinette accidentally causes Chloé to become a villain and ally herself with Hawk Moth in the future.

And it would have been caused by Marinette, even if unintentionally. It would have shown how good intentions can have unforeseen consequences, especially when you don’t know what you’re helping someone with or what they want before you do so. Marinette doesn’t really understand what she’s trying to help people with whenever she does try to be helpful, because she assumes what they want and need instead of asking and listening (like in Reflekdoll, the latter part of Ikari Gozen and Quilt Trip). Many heroes create their own villains this way, and Marinette could have done so as well since she was the one to strengthen Chloé’s bond with the person who taught her to be an entitled bully and then she dragged her feet on whether or not she could use the Bee Miraculous.

The season 3 finale shows Chloé brought to a new low. The following New York Special gives us a glimpse of a Chloé who is withdrawn, like she’s reconsidering her life. This could have led to Chloé deciding that she would have revenge on Ladybug for leading her on and then dumping her (as a teammate). But, it could have also have led to Chloé realizing that, while Ladybug wasn’t her friend, Sabrina was, and she pushed the latter away in pursuit of being the Bee Miraculous holder. Chloé could have gained new insight that would have led her to start working on how she treats those closest to her, finally starting to treat her schoolmates with decency and, maybe, with time, kindness.

Then season 4 came along and all that foreshadowed introspection was dumped out the window in favor of having Chloé do cartoonishly stupid school antagonist character things. In season 4, where this kind of hijinks are so incredibly low-stakes that it’s both laughable to see, and laughable to realize the writers think this is good television.

I think the writers realized this too, because then comes season 5 with the retcon that, actually, Chloé is an evil mastermind who is so heinous that she orchestrated a traumatic event that led to Marintette’s character flaws and therefore Marinette should be forgiven for her flaws and Chloé blamed for them. Never mind the damage this episode does to Kim’s character, turning him from an oblivious to jock to a total creep, it also tries to convince us that Chloé is this big threat despite that it happened at least a year ago in-universe and that she had never done anything even close to this bad since. It just makes no sense when contrasting with the early seasons, where Marinette treats Kim as just one classmate among many and Chloé as a low-threat nuisance.

The problem was that they decided that they didn’t want Marinette to hold any responsibility for anything she does anymore. This is why they wrote the episode ‘Derision’, to absolve Marinette of all responsibility in her stalking of Adrien, even though them making it a serious trauma response instead of a cartoon-logic joke means that now she absolutely should take responsibility for her behavior and get therapy. Because they wanted to give Marinette a retroactive justification, the episode just doesn’t mesh with the rest of the show. But, like, the writing in Miraculous seasons 4-5 is so bad it’s of course never just about a single episode, it’s all about how the Miraculous writers don’t know how to build up arcs that then come to a logical conclusion, which is why all their story arcs’ endings fall flat and leave viewers thinking “where’s the rest of it?” when they’re not considered one of the worst finales for a show.

Basically, making Chloé a villain could have worked, but it would have required her getting built up into such a status. The Chloé of seasons 1-3 isn’t a monster, she’s a brat. But the writers didn’t want to do that work despite wanting that story, thinking some repetitive episodes of Chloé being a brat some more will accomplish the same thing. So, Chloé just keeps performing petty bullying until the writers think the viewers forgot that she’s like this because of her mother, who Marinette reunited her with, all the while pretending the woman who calls her by the wrong name to her face on purpose has done nothing wrong as a parent other than “leave”, before she randomly turns on Miss Bustier and starts working with Hawk Moth for supposedly no reason in Collusion.

And, like, the thing that really grinds my gears is that it worked. So many people forgot that Chloé’s bullying was modeled to her by her mother, who Marinette reunited her with. Marinette repeatedly tries to fix abused kids’ relationships to their parents with no regard for how that could harm them in the long run (Adrien, Chloé and Kagami). It’s a pattern, but the show thinks Marinette’s missteps shouldn’t be pointed out because she “had good intentions” when her intentions in the instances of The Bubbler, Style Queen and Ikari Gozen were nothing more than: “Well, my parents are great, so these kids are obviously safe with the parents I just saw make them miserable!” The accusing finger for Chloé’s behavior should be pointed at Audrey. Marinette being “triumphant” over Chloé because Chloé is now stuck with the abuser who made her is already iffy without the added grossness of Marinette being the one who reunited them in the first place.

[darkwitch1999]

@darkwitch1999, I got a question. It’s a little bit of Marinette salt, but what was Noelle and Devin’s worst experience with Marinette/Ladybug?

Well, @princessbutterflysposts. In an alternate reality where Marinette/Ladybug is an even worse bitch than Chloe, Lila, or even the Parisian Mean Girls quartet, I can imagine any one of these scenarios happening that would cause Noelle and Devin to hold a grudge.

Devin Nolan

During the first year of junior high, Marinette almost turned him into a social pariah just because he comes from a wealthy family and she saw him talking to Chloe ONE TIME! Apparently having money and telling Chloe to "fuck off" meant that he was another spoiled rich brat according to Marinette's perspective.

Fortunately, it didn't take long for Devin to convince everyone that he was nothing at all like Chloe. Though Marinette just switched tactics and used his cold, aloof personality as an excuse.

Ignores Devin's intense fear of being touched. She claims that Devin is just being "angsty" and "overdramatic" and doesn't take his phobia seriously.

Whenever Devin shoves her off or hits her whenever she touches him, she plays the victim card, making it seem as if Devin was a jerk despite her being the one clearly in the wrong.

Marinette mocked Devin's psychological fixation on being perfect when she found Devin having a panic attack in an isolated area of the school after he had gotten a 99% on a test. Didn't even stop to consider that as a red flag of psychological trauma/abuse. Again, claiming that he was being "overdramatic".

Ladybug tried to recruit him into becoming a superhero when someone he was close to got akumatized, but when Devin refused because he wasn't interested or comfortable with becoming a superhero, Ladybug had the audacity to call him "selfish".

Devin eventually gave in when Ladybug wouldn't stop pestering/gaslighting him for his help. Jokes on Ladybug, when Devin saw an opportunity to talk the akuma down, he de-transformed right in front of the akuma and revealed himself. He had to endure a harsh lecture from Ladybug about how what he did was "dangerous" and that she could never trust him with a miraculous again.

Devin wasn't even fazed by Ladybug's rant. The whole time she's lecturing him he is all like ("Yeah, don't ask me to do this shit again!").

Noelle Odeja

She's best friends with Lila....need I say more? Well, alright then.

Noelle played a horror-themed practical joke on Marinette on Halloween by putting fake dismembered body parts in her locker. Immediately, Marinette made it seem like she was being "victimized all over again" and compared the prank to the ones that Chloe and Kim played on her last year despite Noelle's joke being tame compared to what those two pulled.

Marinette's "Liars and Cheaters are losers" mentality has made her unsympathetic to Noelle's family problems. Thinking that Noelle's father is a horrible person for having an affair when she doesn't know how abusive Noelle's mother is towards her husband.

Every time Noelle brings up her parents arguing at home again, the first thing that comes out of Marinette's mouth is "What did your Dad do this time?".

The scar near Ronan's eye? "He probably deserved it!" Bitch, the woman blinded him just because he was defending his son from his transphobic mother!

Noelle wore a dress to school on the ONE day a year she wears a skirt or dress (Picture Day) and Marinette won't stop telling her how she looks "better" or "prettier" in dresses and that she should wear them all the time, ignoring the fact that Noelle expressed her distaste for wearing dresses and skirts.

Since Ronan and Gabriel Agreste are old friends and Ronan does photography work for him sometimes, Marinette is always trying to exploit this to her favor by trying to convince Noelle to help her with the "Adrinette" plans. ("Uh, hell no.")

Noelle's brother, Michael, offers free nail paintings to Noelle and her friends. Naturally, Marinette is not on the friends list and thus does not get the privilege of having awesome nail polish art done on her nails like everyone else.

In retaliation, Marinette called in a fake anonymous tip to the police that Michael was in possession of illegal drugs. No surprise that the police didn't find anything but because the studio that Michael worked at knows about his history of substance abuse, he had to pass a drug test to avoid getting fired.

Though Noelle couldn't prove it, something just kept nagging at her that Marinette was responsible for the bogus report.

Ronan had gotten akumatized after having a horrible fight with his wife. Noelle was present when her father got de-akumatized and she had to listen to Ladybug give her father a speech about "forgiveness" and that he should apologize to his wife. Noelle had to summon every ounce of restraint that she had to not punch Paris's "beloved superheroine" in public.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If there was a cult club out there that was all about hating Marinette, I bet that these two would join in a heartbeat.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

IOTA Reviews: Intuition

Well, we've already come up with two excuses as to why Gabriel can't use the most overpowered Miraculous in the show to just get what he wants. With the Rabbit Miraculous, Gabriel was too stupid to use it properly in “Evolution”, and with the Rooster Miraculous, the writers just changed the rules to fit the plot in “Destruction”. Taking those two episodes into consideration, why don't we use a combination of both to explain why Gabriel can't just use the Snake Miraculous to figure out a way to beat Ladybug and Cat Noir?

Let's get into the fifteenth episode of Miraculous Ladybug's fifth season: Intuition

We get right into the meat of things with a montage of several past Akuma fights this season, giving more context to the events of “Elation”, “Derision”, and “Passion”. We see in those episodes, Monarch attempted to use the Snake Miraculous' Second Chance, a power that lets him rewind time as many times as he wants as long as its in a certain time frame. While he tried to give his Akumas advice to stop Ladybug, each one failed miserably.

Why can't Monarch use Second Chance to help his Akumas avoid Ladybug and Cat Noir's attacks? He tried that with Glaciator in “Elation”, and it didn't work because Ladybug got a different Lucky Charm to defeat him with instead.

Why can't Monarch use Second Chance to stop Ladybug from using her Lucky Charm in the first place by destroying her yo-yo? He tried that with Dark Humor in “Derision”, and it didn't work because Ladybug just detransformed and transformed again so she got her Lucky Charm anyway?

Why can't Monarch use Second Chance to corner Ladybug and stop her from fighting altogether? He tried that with Safari in “Passion”, and it didn't work because Cat Noir saved her before the two swapped Miraculous.

All in all, this is actually a pretty good scene, and one of the best moments of the season. It adds rewatch value to earlier episodes and answers questions viewers may have about any ways to stop Ladybug from winning. Granted, I still have a few problems with it. The fact that the Lucky Charm will always adapt to whatever plan Monarch throws at Ladybug kind of takes away some of the tension this season. Okay, we know that Ladybug has to win every episode, but this montage really illustrates that Monarch isn't that threatening of a villain even though he has unlimited chances now.

But those are minor complaints compared to the biggest problem I have with the episode: The way they change the rules of the Snake Miraculous.

Gabriel: Every time I use Second Chance, time rewinds for Ladybug, Cat Noir and the rest of the world, but not for me. I remember every one of those attempts... and so does my body.

Uh... since when? That was never established to be a drawback to the Snake Miraculous. The rules for Second Chance are simple: Activate the power, keep track of time, rewind back time whenever something goes wrong, rinse and repeat. How is Gabriel's Cataclysm wound getting worse if time keeps being rewound? If Gabriel's body “remembers” events that happened as if it was aging, shouldn't he be at least a few years older physically? Hell, during “Desperada”, the very first episode to feature the Snake Miraculous, Adrien used Second Chance 25,913 times, and he didn't even get a little peach fuzz on his face by the end of it, to say nothing about him getting thrown into space without dying in “Miracle Queen”. Maybe this could have worked if they better explained what the Cataclysm wound is doing to Gabriel other than the fact that it's vaguely killing him, like if it's the reason why Second Chance isn't working like it usually does. But no, this is how Second Chance works now, because just like with the Rooster Miraculous, the writers need to arbitrarily change their own rules to fit the story.

But either way, Gabriel's Cataclysm wound is getting worse the more he uses Second Chance, and his own paranoia is preventing him from giving one of his Akumas the power instead. According to Nathalie (who once again nags Gabriel for being reckless while ignoring why she's bedridden in the first place), the wound has started to affect Gabriel's heart, and he may have weeks left to live. Damn, if only he didn't willingly let himself get Cataclysmed instead of just throwing in the towel during “Destruction”.

Gabriel tries to talk with Adrien to get an idea of who can take him in when he dies, but he's interrupted by a call from Marinette. Gabriel tries to make some pancakes, but he collapses in front of Adrien, claiming he just got distracted.

Getting distracted looks the same as having a heart attack, right?

Marinette and Adrien talked about an experimental space jet made by Tomoe's company which will be piloted by Claudie, Max's mom. Gabriel, after once again talking to Emilie's body, transforms into Monarch and even though he just learned that using Second Chance will only bring him closer to death's door, he decides to use Second Chance three times to get the secret code that will let him control the jet. Sure, Tomoe already knows he's Monarch and is part of the reason he can even use Second Chance right now, but I'm sure shaving a few days off what little time you have left was totally worth it for whatever reason you thought this was a good idea.

In Marinette and Adrien's class, they're talking with Claudie about the jet, and after we learn that Max decided to make the same tech he used to create his robot friend Markov free on the internet, we get an unfunny scene about Kim asking if there are pools on Mars. Because it's bad enough that his character was assassinated last episode, but now I guess Kim's only character trait is that he likes swimming. The space jet test is a success, but that's when Monarch uses Second Chance so he can sabotage it... even though he already had the access codes and didn't need to wait. You're really thinking about the best ways to use Second Chance, aren't you, Monarch?

Monarch disables the sensors of the jet's AI, A.D.A., so she assumes that Claudie was lost and the test was a failure, deciding to fly off into space with Claudie inside. After loading up with the powers of the Horse, Fox, Turtle, Goat in addition to the already active Snake, Monarch starts his plan. Monarch uses the Goat Miraculous' Genesis to create a giant meteorite that can possibly destroy the Earth before using the Fox Miraculous' Mirage to create an illusion of himself so he can make his announcement to Ladybug.

Monarch: Ladybug! Cat Noir! You're going to have to choose: will you stop this huge meteorite threatening the people of Paris or rescue Claudie Kante trapped inside her out of control space jet? Of course, you could also choose to give me your Miraculous and save everyone by letting me help you.

Hmm, the entire city of Paris or one person in space? Tough choice...

In all seriousness, this is a good plan, as it capitalizes on Ladybug's need to save everyone, especially with Monarch offering to end his threat if Ladybug and Cat Noir give up.

After Adrien escorts Marinette to the nurse's office as part of her excuse, the two transform into Cat Noir and Ladybug respectively, and immediately transform into their space forms, Astro Cat and Cosmobug. The two split up, so Cosmobug can deal with the jet and Astro Cat can stop the meteorite. This is all part of Monarch's plan, as he heads back to his lair and akumatizes A.D.A. into Bugfighter, with Claudie still trapped inside.

Bugfighter is basically a Transformer, and that is one of the coolest things to ever come out of this show. Sure, her only power other than being a giant robot is that she has a laser cannon, and she doesn't get a Miraculous power thanks to having no Alliance ring, but who cares? She's a Transformer! How awesome is that?!

Bugfighter destroys Cosmobug's yo-yo before she can use her Lucky Charm, and right after Astro Cat uses his Cataclysm to destroy the meteorite, Monarch tries to trap him using the Turtle Miraculous' Shelter, but misses. Monarch uses Second Chance to repeat the whole process over again, and succeeds in trapping Astro Cat. He prepares to steal Astro Cat's Miraculous by sticking his hand through a Voyage portal, only for Astro Cat to notice Second Chance is active and forcibly activates it again... even though he could have just taken the rings off Monarch's hand since he had the chance to earlier. Monarch then decides to use the Bee Miraculous' Venom to stun Astro Cat the next chance he has.

As Monarch prepares to get Astro Cat's Miraculous, Cosmobug tells Claudie to smash the windshield of the jet that is now Bugfighter, and after realizing Monarch tampered with her systems so she can't detect Claudie, Bugfighter rejects the Akuma. Monarch uses Second Chance several times to find a way to stop Cosmobug and Astro Cat, only for Bugfighter to keep rejecting the Akuma before his body finally collapses and he decides to call it a day, using Second Chance one more time so he never utilized his plan at all. Because I guess he couldn't just... use Voyage again to just take Claudie out of the equation entirely?

Gabriel decides that since he probably doesn't have a lot of time left to live, he decides to finally be a decent parent to Adrien and start spending more time with him... At least, for this episode, anyway. Nathalie once again nags Gabriel for being reckless and confirms that all Gabriel did was accelerate the damage of the Cataclysm wound, yet still doesn't mention that Gabriel got himself Cataclysmed. The episode ends with Ladybug and Cat Noir wondering why Monarch never uses Second Chance... when they of all people should know that they could never tell if Second Chance is being used or not.

While I had some problems with the changes to the Snake Miraculous, this episode was honestly pretty good. I like how the focus is more on Gabriel than Marinette and Adrien, showing more insight to how he operates as Monarch. The plan he came up was pretty unique, and for the most part, he actually tried to make up for any flaws in it. Marinette and Adrien, while they only had like two scenes together, were pretty cute, and it's nice to see them growing more comfortable around each other. Other than the fact that they never explain why Monarch can't use Voyage to take Claudie out of the jet when he can use it multiple times (and his poor use of the Snake Miraculous with Tomoe), the only real problem I have is the way they changed the rules of the Snake Miraculous to fit the story. Like with the Rooster, this blatantly contradicts earlier episodes and is only there to explain why Gabriel can't use it to win.

But putting that aside, it's a simple episode, but it honestly works in my opinion. Right now, it's my favorite so far this season.

THE BIGGEST IDIOT OF THE EPISODE IS... GABRIEL

While Adrien was close to getting it thanks to blowing a chance to get some of Monarch's Miraculous, Gabriel still takes home the medal this time. Thanks to Second Chance, Gabriel had a lot of chances to capitalize on his mistakes as long as his body could take it, so naturally, he kept using Second Chance just to talk to one of his allies, and kept screwing up his chance to get Ladybug and Cat Noir's Miraculous, even when the odds were stacked in his favor, and that all contributed to his impending death that was brought on because he made the wise choice to Cataclysm himself in an earlier episode.

[flightfoot]

Ur a pretty fair voice in my opinion when it comes to the whole mess in miraculous. Would you mind telling me what your favorite things are about Marinettes appreciation of Chat Noir in Canon? Not fanon, CANON.

I'm still grieving LadyNoir and recently I'm feelin very down in life in general and now I don't have my comfort show and ship anymore the way I used to love them for.

The way Marinette treats Chat Noir in and outta her transformation never stops hurting my poor broken LadyNoir heart n as much as I wished I could love the potential of her love for him as I once did, it just feels so paper thin and shallow to me now after everythin this show did.

The show is clearly trying to have her feelings for him be smth now, but for me it never seems to go beyond her infamous vague heart eyes the show likes to hav her throw around for damage control & surface level appreciation of his presence when she has to. But if you'd tell me that she still has no real feelings for him, I would believe u, cause he as a person doesn't truly matter at any given moment her words have to MEAN something more than a vague "<3" she's never asked to back up with anything worthwhile (srry, I know you've heard that complaint a million times before. It's at least comforting to know that others feel the same)

Wasn even her taking any interest in Chat for his person in the first quarter of season 5 only caused by Marinette wantin to proof Alya wrong and that her love for him instead of Adrien is real and valid? That's so disheartening...

Going through the tags isnt helping either, cuz most i find it is either much more fanon than Canon, or it's in line with Chat prrty much being her servant now instead of her finally giving care back

Idk, I hope I'm not bein too much of a downer. So imma get back to my question now. Maybe u can help me see Canon in better light again.

Could you tell me what you like most bout Marinettes and Ladybug's connection with Chat Noir? Things she does for him, what she values in him and so on and so forth?

I like the times we see her getting upset when Chat's hurt, or when she comforts him when he's clearly not feeling good. I adored how angry and upset she got in Timebreaker when Chat was "killed" in front of her for the first time, how she suddenly became more vicious. She doesn't want to lose him.

Or like, for times when she's comforted Chat, I adore how calmly and patiently she spoke to Chat in Reverser, after his courage was taken away, how she gently coaxed him where he needed to go. I took great solace in that, the first time I rewatched that episode, since I'd been exposed to a lot of Saltinette at the time, and I needed the reminder that Marinette does, in fact, care about people, even when it's inconvenient.

While I wish that Marinette had really thought through Chat's potential reaction to someone new showing up with her Miraculous without warning, I DID love that Marinette had this long list of protips. I especially liked this one:

Marinette: (v.o) Protip 33: When Cat Noir tells a joke, try to laugh at it even if it isn't funny. It makes him happy.

Even in episodes where I have a problem with the way Marinette conceives of Chat Noir, I generally still like elements of it. Like even in Ephemeral, while I think it was very, very wrong for her to try to trick Chat the way she did, she WAS doing it because she didn't want to risk Su-Han taking Chat's Miraculous from him. Or in Kuro Neko, when she didn't want to give the miraculous back to Plagg to give to Chat Noir, because she was afraid they'd end up back in this same situation, and she didn't want to keep hurting him.

At her core, Marinette cares about Chat's feelings and wants him to feel good, to be happy. The issue comes from her not seeing things from his perspective, from being terrible at reading him. Marinette has a lot of compassion towards Chat Noir, she just doesn't understand him.

[k7l4d4]

K Reviews and Rants: Miraculous Ladybug Season 5! Episode 14

Hello all, today, I review the episode I dislike the most out of Season 5. It isn't the one that upsets me the most, but it is the one I personally dislike the most, both on a moral principle, and a writing principle. I hope I do it justice in outlining how bad it is.

Now, there are a LOT of things I could say about this episode in hindsight, but the long and short of it is that this entire episode doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense in terms of continuity. Trauma is not something you just "get over" by having a revelation about what caused it, not even slightly. More over, the show acting as if Marinette having trauma absolves her of the ethical lines she's crossed in her obsession with Adrien... even ignoring how it tries to retcon Chloe's missing mom being this known thing now doesn't work because the show acting as if people IRL think "Chloe's mom not being around" is why she's the way she is and mocking them for it... does not work.

It just does not WORK, especially not when they have Mylene, one of the characters they had profess the idea that they believed Chloe could grow to become better, as the one to shoot that idea down, all while ignoring how Mylene's situation is NOTHING like Chloe's and I don't mean financially. Mylene is the last character that should be used to criticize Chloe; it's not ABOUT that Chloe's mom wasn't around when she grew up, it's that not only does Mylene have a father who loves her so much he uses a photo of her as a good luck charm he keeps in his hat, she doesn't have to live with the knowledge that her mom is a famous celebrity that she can hear about every time she turns on the news or tries to hear about what is going on in the fashion industry, living with the knowledge that her mother could literally come over whenever she wants... and is CHOOSING not to do so.

Combined with it making a mockery of trauma and PTSD by saying NOW of all times that Marinette was secretly traumatized by a bad prank Chloe and Sabrina pulled on her last school year (not even a full year before the series starts, less then three months), and it's the reason she has such a bad time talking with Adrien, it doesn't work when we know that she has NEVER had those problems when she was with Luka. I don't even like Lukanette (Chloenette fan forever, here), and even I can tell you point blank that they were a couple, had decent chemistry, and had NONE of the baggage she does with Adrien. It's not good writing at all.

With that wordy rant done, onto the review! Please, forgive me for any profanity on my part.

Episode 14: Derision 

And... here's Derision. Sigh... 

Okay, we start off with Marinette answering a call from Adrien, nothing going wrong... and then she starts trembling and her vision goes wonky. ALREADY HATING THIS!! 

Just... THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR THIS TO BE HAPPENING!!! If this is because she's dating someone, WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN WITH LUKA!? The literal episode immediately preceding this one called attention to the fact that they dated, yet THIS was never a part of it!! 

Oh, and THOSE KINDS OF SYMPTOMS DO NOT JUST FUCKING PASS WHEN SOMEONE ASKS YOU WHAT IS WRONG!! You can certainly FAKE IT, but it's like telling someone you're fine when you're obviously NOT fine; it's an act, not really being okay. 

And the tremors start up the second they bring up she has a date... (Hits head against a wall) Fuck this. Fuck this nonsense. 

...Okay, she's getting those symptoms over a picture of Kim. At the pool. Kim, who she shares classes with. Kim, who she sees BASICALLY EVERY FUCKING DAY. I'm hating this more and more with each passing moment. 

And now the hallucination-esque flashbacks are getting worse... ugh. Just... just so much of this is wrong to me. It makes me feel nauseous watching this. I may not have flashbacks like this, but I DO get trauma impacting one's actions and behavior, and I have HAD minor panic attacks due to people throwing me off balance or pressuring me on something I am not qualified to answer. Seeing THIS is honestly really upsetting, because ALL OF THIS CAME OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE!! EVERYTHING THEY ARE TRYING TO TREAT AS SOME TRAUMATIC EPISODE IS STUFF THEY PULLED OUT OF THEIR ASSES!!! 

...Her needing to be alone. THAT is the one thing I can get behind in this nonsense.

I am currently breathing very, VERY hard to remind myself that Kim is not normally this much of a fucking idiot. I am trying very, VERY hard not to get mad. Kim, from the very beginning of Origins, is a weirdo that has issues with being insensitive, who is overcompetitive and tends to bite off more than he can chew by dragging people into dumb dares that he usually loses anyway. Him treating what amounts TO A FUCKING PANIC ATTACK as "reacting to a prank" is so stupid, so idiotic, I WANT TO FUCKING SCREAM RIGHT NOW!!! Even during Origins, when he honestly CAUSED the problem, he was largely just trying to help in his own dumb way. THIS!? THIS IS HIM BEING AN ASSHOLE!!! 

They just... they had Marinette get Akumatized over a Panic Attack. Well, nearly get Akumatized, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW IT ISN'T GONNA HAPPEN FOR REAL!! I am just... so much hate right now. SO MUCH HATE. Oh, and this calls a little bit of continuity into suspect because Marinette KNOWS she's Ladybug, so why the hell isn't Hawkmoth starting to pick up on the fact that she knows this and has the Miraculous!? After all, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH LUKA YOU FUCKING HACK WRITERS!!! 

Also, apparently Ondine has known Kim since the time the "prank" took place, so him saying she wouldn't know makes jack all sense. 

My eyebrow is twitching. My brow is literally twitching at my sheer ANGER over this bullshit right now. 

And here comes the character butchering!! Let's see how much this pisses me off, SHALL WE!?

First off: Sabine spots right away that Marinette is trying to avoid going to school, and the dialogue makes it PRETTY DAMN OBVIOUS WHO THE FUCK THEY MEAN in the form of Chloe. They haven't said it yet, but when you phrase it as 'only two weeks left of school with her' IT DOES NOT TAKE A GENIUS TO FIGURE IT OUT!!!! What makes this absolutely fucking STUPID is that Sabine IS A BETTER FUCKING PARENT THAN THIS!!! If she knows that Chloe is bad enough that Marinette would rather avoid going to school than be around her, THEN SHE WOULD EITHER BRING IT UP WITH FACULTY, PULL HER OUT OF SCHOOL, OR JUST DO SOMETHING OTHER THEN TELL HER TO KEEP HER FUCKING CHIN UP!! IT'S NONSENSE LIKE THIS THAT MADE PEOPLE ANGRY AT CALINE IN ZOMBIZOU!!!!

Oh, and let's get into the next part of why this is nonsense to me. First off, what the absolute FUCK happened that made Marinette go from "ugh, it's Chloe, best to ignore her, she's not worth it" to "literally running and hiding and cowering behind doors over Chloe"? THAT IS NOT A NATURAL CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR!! It's Summer Break, not an entire year, there is no realistic reason for their dynamic to change like that!!! 

Okay, Marinette somehow had a bunch of bugs hiding under her books. HOW? If there were any bugs in her locker, they would've been ON THE BOOKS, because textbooks are way too heavy for a significant number of books to be capable of moving around beneath them. If you tried to put her books on top of them, they would just squash them. 

Moving on from the inconsistency I was fixating on to distract myself from RAGE, we get Damocles appearing at just the right time to cause trouble and yelling at Marinette for not being in class apparently for the eighth time in a week. And "good thing an anonymous student warns me when your about to break the rules" WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING HELL IS THIS SHIT!? Seriously, an "anonymous tip" every fucking time!? Does this idiot not seem to understand the concept of a fucking SET UP?!? 

...The "anonymous tip" is literally using Chloe's name. This isn't just contrived, THIS IS FUCKING MORONIC!!! 

HOW MUCH OF AN IDIOT IS THIS GUY SUPPOSED TO BE!? 

...And they made Mendeleiev an idiot, dismiss Marinette's distress as "clowning around" I AM GOING TO BURN THIS VIDEO TO THE GROUND!!! I CANNOT STAND THIS SHIT!! 

And they've got Chloe making fun of Juleka's stutter, which she never had in any of the first three seasons. Ugh. 

...Uuuhhh... they had Rose saying Chloe's mother left her... WHEN NONE OF THEIR CLASS EVEN KNEW ABOUT THAT UNTIL SEASON TWO!!! Rose also got threatened by Chloe to, so this is just idiotic.

If this is meant to be an attack on the idea of people using Chloe's missing mom to excuse her behavior, THIS NEVER ONCE OCCURRED ANYWHERE IN THE SERIES PRIOR TO THIS MOMENT UNLESS IT WAS LILA!! Heck, the only person who has EVER unironically attempted to justify something Chloe had done (or rather, hadn't done) was Sabrina on Chloe's behalf by claiming Chloe forgot birthdays a lot because her mom forgot hers all the time... and Chloe got PISSED at her over this because she doesn't like her mom being brought the fuck UP!! And what makes this nonsense so utterly stupid is that EVERYONE seems to know that Chloe is the culprit, and could easily expose her, and they aren't doing so!! I AM PISSED OFF!! I AM ANNOYED!!! I WANT TO WRITE A STRONGLY WORDED LETTER!!! 

Honestly, Kim offering swimming trunks to replace someone's ruined pants is the closest to being in character he’s in this entire episode. 

I am not even going to comment on this show acting as if just one school year ago Chloe ruled the school with an iron fist and could dictate who Marinette could and could not talk to, BECAUSE IT IS UTTER FUCKING NONSENSE!! Chloe did NOT flagrantly break the rules and get away with it due to teachers dismissing her actions as being "wild accusations" she genuinely TRIED to avoid getting caught when she acted out, and she didn't target Marinette in specific more than anyone else!! NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE!!! THIS IS LITERALLY JUST CHARACTER ASSASSINATION!! 

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS NONSENSE ABOUT THERE BEING "NO REST" FOR MARINETTE!! I DO NOT WANT TO HERE THIS BULLSHIT BEING SPOKEN BECAUSE THIS IS SO WILDLY AND SEVERELY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR CHLOE!! SHE DOES NOT GO OUT OF HER WAY TO TORMENT PEOPLE FOR HER AMUSEMENT!! SHE RARELY TORMENTS PEOPLE AT ALL, SHE IS JUST AN OBNOXIOUS BRAT!!! I WANT THIS STUPIDITY TO FUCKING END!!! 

IF IT ISN'T CLEAR!! I AM BEYOND PISSED OFF AT THE MOMENT!!! WHY THE ABSOLUTE FUCK WOULD ANY OF THE TEACHERS BE AFRAID OF A TEENAGE GIRL!?! THEY LITERALLY HAVE ALL THE POWER IN THE DYNAMIC!! WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO MAKE SOCQUELINE INTO THIS BRAVE PROTECTOR FOR MARINETTE WHEN THIS COMPLETELY FUCKING UNDERMINES THE FACT THAT ALYA WAS APPARENTLY THE FIRST ONE TO CONVINCE HER TO STAND UP FOR HERSELF!?? YOU CANNOT FUCKING SAY IT IS BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SINK IN UNTIL NOW OR SOME BULLSHIT LIKE THAT BECAUSE SOCQUELINE APPARENTLY WENT SO FAR AS TO PHYSICALLY THREATEN CHLOE, WHEN ALL ALYA DID WAS PULL MARINETTE AWAY FROM CHLOE AND BARELY DID ANYTHING DIRECTLY AT ALL!! GET THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT OUT OF MY FACE!!!

I am not eveN GOING TO FUCKING PRETEND TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE BARE MINIMUM REASON THEY ARE GIVING FOR MARINETTE TO PURSUE KIM BECAUSE IT BRINGS BACK ALL OF THE BULLSHIT FROM KURO NEKO IN THAT IT ACCIDENTALLY FRAMES MARINETTE'S CRUSHES IN THE MOST SHALLOW AS FUCK WAY IMAGINABLE!!! 

ALSO, WHY IN THE FUCK ARE KIM AND MAX GOOD ENOUGH FRIENDS IN THE PRESENT WHEN WE ARE LITERALLY GIVEN A SCENE OF KIM BEING SUCH AN INSENSITIVE JACKASS TO TAUNT MAX OVER NEEDING CLASSES!? 

THEY EXPLICITLY HAD HIM SCREAM AT KIM IN ANGER FOR HIM TO STOP AND HIM TO JUST SHRUG IT OFF BY ASKING MAX TO LAUGH A LITTLE!!! HOW DID THESE TWO SOMEHOW BECOME CLOSE ENOUGH FRIENDS FOR MAX TO AGREE TO WORK WITH KIM ON CONFESSING TO CHLOE IN DARK CUPID!? SINCE WHEN WAS HAVING A LAUGH THIS FUCKING IMPORTANT TO KIM AT ALL!?!?! 

I am literally too fucking angry to even go for all caps. This is nonsense taken to the NTH degree. Making Chloe cartoonishly evil does not make her more unlikable, it is bad writing. Making Kim so fucking stupid he doesn't get what "confessing feelings to him" means and being convinced to go along with a prank because he's too fucking stupid to understand what's going on is bad writing. THIS ENTIRE EPISODE is bad writing. I just... I am not even gonna pretend to tolerate this. 

Trying to be FUCKING self aware about Marinette's future obsession about confessing DOES NOT FUCKING WORK WHEN SHE LITERALLY NEVER HAS HAD THAT FUCKING PROBLEM WITH LUKA!!!

See, what makes all this bullshit utter nonsense is that, by all rights, if ANY OF THIS, the backstory in general, took place... then MARINETTE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO COME WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET OF EITHER KIM OR CHLOE!! WHY IN THE WORLD IS SHE WILLING TO EVEN BE IN THE SAME ROOM AS THE TWO OF THEM IF THEY HURT HER LIKE THIS!? WHY IS SHE ABLE TO BE CIVIL WITH KIM WHEN HE HAS NOT APOLOGIZED OR EVEN REALIZED WHAT THE FUCK HE DID WAS WRONG IN NEARLY A FUCKING YEAR!? WHY WAS MARINETTE ABLE TO WORK WITH SOMEONE WHO FUCKING TRAUMATIZED HER DURING ANIMAESTRO, OR ANY OF THE TIMES SHE CALLED ON QUEEN BEE!? WHY WOULD SHE SAY SHE THINKS CHLOE IS ABLE TO CHANGE IN SEASON TWO IF THEY HAD A PAST LIKE THIS!? FUCK THIS NOISE!! FUCK IT WITH A RUSTY CHAINSAW!!! 

IF ANYONE TRIED TO TELL ME THAT THE WRITERS PLANNED THIS OUT AHEAD OF TIME, I WOULD BELIEVE THEM BECAUSE THE WRITERS ARE SUCH FUCKING HACKS THAT I WOULDN'T TRUST THEM NOT TO CHOP DOWN A TREE BY LEANING ON IT!!! 

THESE IDIOTS WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND CONTINUITY IF IT HIT THEM OVER THE HEAD WITH A HISTORY TEXTBOOK!! 

HERE’S ANOTHER BIG ISSUE WITH THIS FUCKING FIASCO OF AN EPISODE, APPARENTLY CHLOE VIDEO TAPED THE ENTIRE INCIDENT AND POSTED IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA!! HOW IS ANYONE UNAWARE OF THIS NONSENSE!? 

Okay, never mind, they had Mary Socqueline kick the phone out of midair. WHY!? 

DO NOT EVEN TRY AND PRETEND THAT MAKING MARINETTE INTO A FUCKING STALKER WAS ALL MEANT TO BE PART OF SOME TRAUMATIC BACKSTORY, THAT THIS IS SOMETHING SHE WOULD DO WITH ANY GUY SHE LIKES, NOT WHEN LITERALLY NONE OF THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT EVER APPLIED DURING HER RELATIONSHIP WITH LUKA!!! GET THIS NONSENSICAL BULLSHIT OUT OF MY SIGHT!!! 

DO NOT EVEN TRY AND DO A TONAL WHIPLASH BY SWITCHING FROM MARINETTE BAWLING HER EYES OUT IN THE BATHROOM WITH CHLOE COMPLAINING TO THE PRINCIPAL ABOUT SOCQUELINE!!! DO NOT EVEN BEGIN TO FUCKING GO THERE!!!

GET THIS NONSENSICAL SHIT OUT OF MY SIGHT WITH SOCQUELINE GETTING SUSPENDED!! I DON'T EVEN LIKE HER AND I KNOW THIS EVENT IS CHARACTER ASSASSINATING BULLSHIT!! EVEN WHEN CHLOE LEANED ON ALYA TO BE PUNISHED IN LADY WIFI, SHE ACTUALLY HAD A FUCKING LEG TO STAND ON, AND ONLY GOT THE SEVERITY OF HER PUNISHMENT INCREASED!! THE MAYOR DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPLACE THE PRINCIPAL!! IT WAS EXPLICITLY A FUCKING PLOT POINT DURING THE BATTLE OF THE QUEENS TRILOGY THAT HE HAS EXTREMELY LIMITED POWER OVER THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND THE MOST HE COULD DO WAS GET THE SCHOOL CLOSED FOR A FUCKING DAY!! HE IS NOT EVEN ON THE FUCKING SCHOOL BOARD!!! 

THEY FUCKING MADE SOCQUELINE RIP OFF ALYA'S MAJESTIA SPEECH FUCK THIS NOISE!!! 

OH GREAT ANOTHER FUCKING CASE OF A CHARACTER RESISTING A FUCKING AKUMATIZATION, LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING SPECIAL THESE DAYS!! 

WHY IS THIS IDIOT SAYING THAT CHLOE IS THE PRETTIEST GIRL TO HIS GIRLFRIEND!? WHERE DID THIS MORON'S BRAIN DISAPPEAR TOO!? 

MARINETTE, DO NOT EVEN GO THERE WITH FUCKING SAYING IT'S ALL CHLOE'S FAULT, NO ONE FORCED YOU TO DECIDE TO PROMISE TO FUCKING STALK PEOPLE, OR TEAM UP WITH THE PERSON WHO ALLEGEDLY TRAUMATIZED YOU, ESPECIALLY NOT WHEN YOUR ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP WITH LUKA MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT YOUR VOW IS TOTAL BS!!! 

THIS ALSO IS NOT HOW TRAUMA WORKS!! IT DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT CAUSES TRAUMA, OR WHERE IT CAME FROM, THE TRAUMA WILL STILL FUCKING EXIST!! YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE FUCKING WORK TO OVERCOME IT AND LEARN TO ADAPT IN YOUR DAY TO DAY LIFE!! THERE IS NO HAVING A MAGICAL EPIPHANY THAT'LL MAKE IT ALL GO THE FUCK AWAY!!!

AFTER ALL, IF ANY OF THAT SHIT WERE TRUE, I WOULDN'T BE HALF AS FUCKED UP AS I AM BY ALL THE BULLSHIT MY GRANDFATHER HAS PUT ME THROUGH!! DO YOU EVEN COMPREHEND HOW UTTERLY TONE DEAF, OFFENSIVE, AND SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY HYPOCRITICAL THIS ENTIRE FIASCO OF AN EPISODE IS SUPPOSED TO BE!? ANY POSSIBLE UPSIDE OF MARINETTE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT SHE'S A FUCKING STALKER WAS TAKEN AWAY BY MAKING IT "ALL CHLOE'S FAULT" AND I AM NEVER GOING TO LET THIS FUCKING GO!!! 

DO NOT EVEN GO THERE WITH THE "HE DESERVES TO GET HURT!!" THIS IS NOT WHAT ADRIEN AGRESTE IS LIKE, I DO NOT GIVE A DAMN IF MARINETTE IS HIS GIRLFRIEND, HE IS NOT THAT KIND OF PERSON!!! AND NO, THE BIG MOMENT HASN'T HAPPENED YET, BUT I CAN TELL IT'S GONNA BE SOON!!! 

And it happened GET THIS FUCKING BULLSHIT OUT OF MY SIGHT!! WHAT THE HELL EVER HAPPENED TO "THERE'S AN ACTUAL LIVING PERSON UNDER THERE" SPEECH WHEN HE ACTUALLY CATACLYSMED MONARCH!? STOP FUCKING TREATING ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS AND HORRIFIC THINGS IN THE SERIES AS SOMETHING ADRIEN JUMPS TO WHEN HE IS PISSED THE FUCK OFF, BECAUSE IT IS PISSING ME THE FUCK OFF!!! WHY IS HE GIVING MORE CONSIDERATION TO A GUY WHO HAS ACTIVELY TRIED TO GET HIM AND HIS GIRLFRIEND KILLED MORE THAN FUCKING ONCE THEN A FELLOW TEENAGER WHOSE WORST CRIME IS BEING A FUCKING MORON!?!? I'M DONE!! I AM DONE WITH THIS BULLSHIT!! NOTHING CAN MAKE THE WRITING COME BACK FROM THIS, NOTHING!!! 

FUCK OFF WITH THIS "YOU'RE GOING TO GO APOLOGIZE TO HER" BULLSHIT!! YOU HAVE BEEN FUCKING ENABLING HER FOR MONTHS, YOU HAD ONE SHOT TO MAKE HER CHANGE FOR THE BETTER AND YOU FUCKING BLEW IT!!! FUCK IT ALL!! FUCK THIS!! FUCK YOU!! FUCK THE WRITERS!!! I'm done. I'm just... I'm done. I'm gonna keep doing my reviews, but this dug up some nasty wounds.

[punkeropercyjackson]

To explain the problem with how the Atsv fandom deals with Hobie a lot and sometimes with Gwen too............Hobie and Gwen have certain expectations put on them as a slightly older black character and a female character who's the male mc's love interest.Hobie is expected to be overtly sexual and uncommited to his partners('I hate labels' was him being nonbinary,please be fucking serious)and have a huge mean edge to him or either a caretaker to the Spiderband with no personality and stories of his own and Gwen is expected to be a 'normal' straight girlfriend-Hence all the emphasis put on her being a girl and Miles a boy even when it dosen't fit-including the toxicity frequent in white ones with black boyfriends specifically(that's what 'snowbunny' means btw)and her experiences as a friendless abuse victim who's trans and was kicked out by her cop dad for doing activism isn't something that you can ignore,because GWEN can't ignore it either and neither can Hobie with his own lived antiblackness and adultification that are inherently intertwined with eachother

Gwen wasn't written to be a stereotypical hashtag quirky cis white girl with no real problems besides wanting the guy to like her back,Gwen was CANONICALLY written as a usual TRANS girl and those are absolutely different because i known both closely and she reminds me infinitely more of tgirls who're pastel softgirls for gender validation instead of white woman fragility and the only reason her and Margo weren't a trio with Hobie pre-Miles is the same reason Peter B didn't come with Gwen to visit Miles and it's that writers wanted to isolate them from eachother to emphasize Ghostflower as if they didn't pull it off just fine in the first movie and when the only weak points in the second one are FROM them doing that and if you think about it for 5 seconds you'd realize that Margo and her have every reason to love eachother so much and hang out.And Hobie has plenty of interesting traits and potential even without his comics lore and he never shows interest in sex-Rightfully so,because this is a fucking children's franchise!!!-and any 'vibes' adult Hobie bullshitters got was them being creeps who can't turn off horny mode and you can just say you don't ship Ghostpunk and Punkflower instead of making a fool of yourself by denying how much mutual romantic interest and chemistry Hobie has with Gwen and Miles

And y'all WILDIN' if you actually think Hobie's Team Dad status to the Spiderband is something that takes zero toll on him but i know for a fact it eventually does and he tries to hide it because he feels guilty but they find out and let him breakdown and take care of him too starting from then on because he's not their ACTUAL Dad,he's a 17 year old and he's their best friend and that's what best friends DO.Gwen ain't a pick me either,she's a trans legend who didn't magically turn cis when she started passing contrary to how y'all think transfemininity work and Hobie didn't 'adopt' her,him taking her in was intersectionality and solidarity between black people and trans women which has an extremely important history in punk culture and deadass one of the first thing's i learned when i started my research after i decided to go pastel punk.You all look dumb as hell with these janky ass takes,especially those random hate comments i'm always seeing on Hobie x Spiderband posts and the defenses towards the cisfeminization of Gwen and don't even get me started on the Switfie allegations as if Hobie isn't obviously a The Cure fan and Gwen a Tv Girl one,and if you want minority characters to be written offensively with no depth so bad,go back to watching Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug and leave Hobs and Gwendy tf alone!!!!!

[into-september]

Saw your comment on the end of the agreste arc not being originally planned. What makes you think that?

(you bet I wrote like half of this, then had to do something else, and forgot it in my drafts. sorry it took so long)

In short: Because of how unsatisfying and thematically insulting it is.

In longer: The reason for that is because the very set-up of the story - and the conflict to which the show keeps returning time and again - is left unresolved.

The beginning of the story, whether or not "The Bubbler" was meant as the pilot, establishes the parallel conflicts between Marinette-Adrien-Gabriel and Ladynoir-Hawkmoth. Specifically, what it establishes is that the one thing keeping these conflicts from being solved is the secret identities.

On the larger story level, it's important to remember that Hawkmoth's stated goal isn't to beat Ladybug and Cat Noir, but to get their miraculous. In every scenario he has succeeded, he did so because he discovered their identities, not because he grew strong enough to defeat them in battle. Their identities are the key, and Gabriel knows it, and so, eventually, does Marinette (jury's still out on Adrien, who is still sore about it in the S4 finale). Conversely: It is vital for Gabriel to keep his own identity secret, because the moment it's out, he can expect Ladybug and her extended cavalry to come pounding on his door.

The secret identities are also the one thing keeping the two personal stories from being resolved: The Love Square and Adrien's troubled relationship to his father. Until S5, these are both kept in a narrative limbo: the source of repeated conflict that finds no final resolution because the moment they do, the relationships involved will change so fundamentally that every episode after will find them unrecognisable.

(this, by the way, is not a bad thing, no matter how much the fanboys on youtube and reddit moan about "filler" and "dragging the plot out". The show was conceived to be watchable in any order, and until "Kwami's Choice", what little change happens is so inconsequential that it hardly ever affects the story on the episode level.)

As The Movie well showed us, the identity reveal is the dead man's switch forcing the story to conclude. When Gabriel and Adrien know, both their character arcs will come to a head: Gabriel will have to choose between his son and his wife, and the outcome of his choice will finally give Adrien the answer if he can continue hoping to have his father back, or if he has to find the belonging he so longs for elsewhere.

The LS reveal meanwhile being far more vital to Marinette's character arc, and as "Ephemeral" would have us believe, crucial for her having a relationship with either of Adrien's two personas.

TL;DR: THE ONE THING THE AUDIENCE HAS BEEN WAITING FOR SINCE EPISODE ONE, IS FOR ALL IDENTITIES TO BE REVEALED - FOR ADRIEN AND MARINETTE TO KNOW THAT THEIR LOVE HAS ALWAYS BEEN MUTUAL, FOR GABRIEL TO KNOW THAT HIS SON HAS BEEN REBELLING AGAINST HIM ALL ALONG, AND FOR ADRIEN TO KNOW THAT HIS FATHER'S UNNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR HURTS MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST HIM.

What we get instead is the least important reveal in this triangle - the Gabriel-Marinette one. Neither of them gets to change their mind about Adrien and re-evaluate their actions based on his knowledge, and Adrien never gets any resolution of the numerous problems he had with them both. The boy whose whole character arc is about winning his agency away from a father who has total control of his life down to his body and his mind ends the story as the in absentia bargaining chip between his father and his girlfriend, never knowing that this confrontation even happened. In fact: if the lore from "Ephemeral" still counts, Adrien's entire character arc was un-made, since Gabriel specifically requested to be remembered as a good father, and allegedly wasn't such a jerk when Emilie was around.

Since the show never did come out and say in words that Adrien is a sentimonster, and since being a sentimonster is compeltely unproblematic now that Felix is a good guy, I don't expect that this will be a story point in future seasons. Marinette made the choice to bury Gabriel's sins, and the show has never disagreed with her decisions except in the cases where it was blatantly obvious that she'd learn a lesson by the end of the episode.

Gabriel's story is over, Adrien will never know, and I refuse to believe that the people who made the two of them father and son did so with the intention of never letting that have any meaning.

[yubellia]

How they could have written Lila, to be a better villain

(Just a theory) and keep in mind, english is not my first language

——————————————————

Well hello there! I am working on a new chapter for my miraculous fanfiction. I know it has been a while.

But before that, let’s think about our favorite local liar, Lila Rossi/ Cerise Bianca/ Iris Verdi (whatever name she feels like using).

People hate her but I don‘t think it’s just because of the things she does. Let’s be real. The things Marinette is doing are also…. Questionable at best sometimes. And that’s the protagonist. So we can‘t just talk about the bad things.

I think people are mad because of what happens to the other characters the moment Lila starts to speak. It’s kind of a joke in the fandom but Lila‘s lies turn pretty much everyone into idiots. Except for Marinette. Even Adrien almost fell for it if Marinette didn’t expose her as ladybug. Her lies are stupid and sure, we as the audience can see through it easily but that’s not an excuse for how everyone acts. (Unless my theory about superpowers in miraculous ladybug is correct. Look it up in my masterlist!)

Some of them are so easy, we could hit our heads on a table (repeatedly) and still see through it. So, let’s pretend we turn back the time. How could the writers turn Lila into a really well written villain?

1. SHOW us that she is smart and a good liar. NOT tell us!

This is the one golden rule for writing. The audience hates it if they are told something. Even more so, if there is no evidence to back it up.

Her lie about being friends with Ladybug HAD to blow up in her face. Especially knowing how Marinette acts if anyone gets too close to Adrien. Even more so in the early seasons.

So what could they do?

Well, one of her moms works at an embassy. She might not be a diplomat herself but Lila doesn’t have to tell anyone about that. She could simply tell them, that because of her moms job and because she has no other relatives around really, she has to move with her a lot. (That’s only half a lie). From there, she could use that for more convincing lies like „oh that one time, we stayed for a year in (please insert country). And there I saw (insert important person).“

And here‘s the thing. With the embassy thing, even Marinette couldn’t really talk against her if Lila plays her cards right and doesn’t show up in front of her.

Also, it’s not like they didn’t know how to do it. The first time Lila goes to Adrien’s house, Nathalie wants to throw her out. Lila starts a lie, that Adrien struggles with something at school.

Now, Nathalie knows who and ‚what’ Adrien is. She knew him the longest right after his parents. She must have known that Adrien CAN‘T fail. He was supposed to be perfect.

However, even if that is so, she couldn’t take the small chance that Adrien MIGHT be failing for whatever reason. So she let Lila stay. If the writers had used this somehow, explained it more. Either from Lila’s pov or Nathalie‘s, it would have been so much better. They could have made Lila look smart. Using the high expectations Adrien’s family has for her advantage.

2. Don‘t overdo it with her lies.

The biggest Problem with her is the fact that her lies are too big. Instead of big and impressive things, they should have used little lies that built up. Small ways that make her look resourceful and smart. She was way to aggressive in her desire for fame in that school.

3. show us some skills.

This plays into the first thing but still. I think everyone was impressed when we met her third mom and found out that Lila knows sign language. We know little to nothing about her real family so they should have explored that. Why does she know that?

The same thing with her using Tsurugis laptop.

She opened it with force, using tools like a screwdriver. Ok, I buy that so far. But than what? She used hacking skills and they didn’t show us? LAME!

We see Ladybug and Chat Noir in every episode. It wouldn‘t hurt anyone if we followed one of the villains for one episode and learned more about them. An entire episode I mean. Not scenes. It was about to get interesting and they take it from us.

And again, it’s not like they can‘t do it. Lila isn‘t an idiot (if the writers have a good day) she knew she needed something solid to show Adrien that she is a hero. So she took the book and got herself this replica of the fox miraculous. The same one she used later to frame Marinette for theft. Also she wasn’t afraid to fake an injury and get herself into danger to frame Marinette either.

4. make her a threat in the background.

This kind of plays into the first point again. Lila didn’t show up too often at first. In the early seasons I mean. That way and because of her introduction in ‚volpina‘, we as the audience knew every time she shows up ‚oh no here we go again.‘ this also combines with the little lies I talked about.

Her impact would have been much greater, if she had been there all the time and in the end we learn that she had a plan B or that everything worked exactly how she wanted it. That’s something most people like. A surprise villain, a twist, something we can‘t see coming.

Also, again, they kind of did that when we learned about her multiple identities. Marinette didn’t defeat her at all. Didn’t hurt her in the slightest. Only her ego and she will be back for that.

——————————————————

I really think that, if they had changed Lila just a little, she could have been more liked. Not as a character but a villain. Also what do we learn? The writers can do it if they want to! (And if they had a good day)

Throughout the show, Lila had her moments. Like when Gabriel threw her out and she called him ‚Monarch‘. We knew that he hurt her where it hurts the most. Her Ego. And not taking her seriously was one of the biggest mistakes.

The writers don‘t really have a choice. From what it looks like, Lila is confirmed to be The next big bad. And they also stated, that there are multiple more seasons to come. So they have to explore her more.

Let’s wait and see. I hope you liked it and I see you again. Later!

[princess-of-the-corner]

I wonder how the show is going to deal with Marinette keeping Adrien in the dark. Like are they going to do another 'consequences' of Miracle Queen thing where it's just never brought up again or another Gabriel has all the miraculous situation where the show makes a big deal about it during the one to three episode then basically abandon it for the rest of the season

I mean I wouldn't say Gabriel having all the Miraculous was abandoned for the season it was still a big part. But I get what you mean.

And like. I just.

I think /at best/ we'll get a few scenes of Mari going all scrunched kermit face when the subject comes up before eventually coming clean, and Adrien's shocked and angry but it's all worked out and forgiven in a single episode.

And and and and just fuckin.

I don't think I'd have as much problem with keeping it secret from Adrien(I'd still think it's a bad move regardless), if it weren't for the fact that instead of just 'Monarch was defeated and also Gabriel mysteriously disappeared these events have no relation', Maribug's lie included telling the public that Gabriel is a Hero who sacrificed himself to take down Monarch.

Because there's three options here:

1.) No one ever learns, everyone and the narrative treats Gabriel as a 'Hero'.

2.) Adrien and maybe some major characters find out, but they have to be in on the lie and pretend to the public that Gabriel is a Hero when he's actually an awful person who caused this mess. And GOD can you imagine being Adrien in that knowing your father was awful and being fucked up about it but never allowed to express this and constantly hearing from everyone what a good person he is? I'd snap.

3.) The information is released to the public, my bet on it being Lila who does it, and the public goes absolutely insane because /Ladybug lied to them/. She covered up the situation and lied and told them that Gabriel was a Hero when they've in fact been celebrating Monarch and his 'heroic sacrifice to defeat the villain' was just committing suicide.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

So you've talked a few times about how Plagg and Tikki failed on a fundamental level as mentors, and how Fu wasn't even really a mentor at all, but I don't think I've seen you bring up Su-Han as of yet, and I'm curious to know where you fall on that particular character.

I personally feel he could've been useful for expository purposes, and/or served as a catalyst for Marinette's growth into the role of guardian/team leader (you know, if the show were interested in character growth, or suggesting it's protagonist isn't omni-capable), but instead he showed up in four episodes, caused several problems, raised more questions than he ultimately answered, and honestly makes me question why he was included in the first place.

The order of the guardians is back after 170+ years and the most lasting impact this has on the story is... they teach Jagged Stone Kung Fu? Were you on the writing team, how would you make effective use of this plot point (Or was it a bad idea to begin with?)

Su-Han is an incredibly weird character. I'm honestly not totally sure why he exists, but I'll give you my best guess and then we'll talk about how he could have been used because I do think that he had potential.

It feels like they only introduced the guardian temple back in season three because they wanted to explain how the peacock and butterfly got lost - even though their explanation just raises even more questions if you know anything about archology - then they realized, "Oh shit, we probably need to address the guardian's return somehow, don't we?"

But if they let a whole mystic order descend on Paris, then we don't really need our two heroes, so instead we get one rando who walked (or I guess jumped?) from Tibet to Paris in order to be the writer's whipping boy because that's really how Su-Han is used. He's not here to help or to be a mentor. He's here to voice audience complaints so that the writers can shut those complaints down with nonsense logic.

For example, this exchange from Ephemeral is what kicks off Marinette's awkward and concerning plan to lie to her partner about an identity reveal:

Su-Han: This really takes the cake! Ladybug: Grand Master Su-Han? Su-Han: Nine! You used nine Miraculous to defeat a single villain, when Cat Noir could have just used his Cataclysm! Ladybug: I had to. Cat Noir was missing! Su-Han: What do you mean "missing"? You can't just let the holder of the one of the most powerful Miraculous go about as he pleases! What if he started making his own decisions, or act it out? Like Shadow Moth?! Ladybug: Cat Noir? Act like Shadow Moth? Wow. Are you blowing this out of proportion just a little? Su-Han: Not at all. In fact, you should find out who Cat Noir really is, so you can have better control over him. Ladybug: What?? No way! We can't know our true identities! It would be too dangerous if Shadow Moth got a hold of one of us! Su-Han: I. Don't. Care!! Deal with this problem quickly, otherwise I will take back his Miraculous as soon as he shows a whisker! And I'll choose the new Cat Noir myself! Ladybug: Okay, okay, alright. What if you knew who he was, would that work? Su-Han: I... I suppose so. But I'm warning you, if you don't succeed— Ladybug: I get it. Cat Noir will be replaced.

Does Su-Han read like an Adrien salter to you? Because he does to me! He's presenting a valid argument in the most obnoxious and inflammatory way possible by making it about controlling Chat Noir instead of having the argument focus on the issue of, "Hey, maybe more than one person should know who has this extremely powerful miraculous just in case something bad happens to that one person?" An argument that holds more weight than he could possibly know because of the whole senti issue making Chat Noir a potential perfect sleeper agent.

And at the end of the episode, we get this exchange even though none of Su-Han's concerns have actually been addressed:

Su-Han: So, do you know who Cat Noir is yet? Ladybug: No. Su-Han: What? I thought I had warned you— Ladybug: I don't want to know. I've proven to you a hundred times that I'm a good guardian, and Cat Noir and I have proven to you a hundred times that we were exceptional superheroes, and you! How many times have you told us that we were messing up, when that was totally untrue? You're judging us based on your own fears, and not on our actions! Su-Han: (groans) You're right, little Ladybug. Perhaps I'm worrying over nothing. What's for sure is that one doesn't come across a guardian like you every century. (reaches out his fist) How do you say again? Ladybug and Su-Han: Pound it.

You can tell that the writers wanted Su-Han to be the bad guy here. That his pushing for an identity reveal was at fault and you - the audience - should feel bad if you ever agreed with him, but his base argument is never actually addressed. Marinette just says he needs to trust her and so he does for some reason? Remind me, which of these two is supposed to have years of experience and which of them has been a hero for less than a year and in that time has totally failed to even try to retrieve the miraculous that she's supposed to be recovering? Writers, please stop saying that Marinette is the best guardian ever when you don't let her do anything that feels all that special. I'm not saying that she's terrible, she's doing what was asked if her, I'm just concerned that this is considered way above average quality.

On top of that nonsense, there's also the problem that Marinette's counter argument would have worked right from the start, so her rushed deception plan doesn't feel like a true act of desperation like it was clearly supposed to be. Instead, it just makes her look like a horrible person even though that obviously wasn't the writer's intent. This is what always happens when they speed run these complex what-if or backstory episodes. It never works out like they clearly want it to.

Chat Blanc did it by making Adrien look bad for hiding his identity so that he could date Ladybug. Derision did it by making multiple characters look unhinged and/or evil. Ephemeral does it with the frankly baffling lie plan which is only there so we can have a proper identity reveal moment between the leads. That's literally why the episode is written like that, btw. They wanted to let Adrien confess his identity in a big romantic moment, so they forced a scenario where that would happen even though it makes Ladybug look terrible.

Anyway, back to Su-Han.

If Miraculous was allowed to have serious plot lines that spanned multiple episodes, then Su-Han could have been a great edition to the cast. Season four is a pretty big tonal shift for the show. Things start to feel a lot more serious in this season with the Ladynoir conflict and Marinette struggling to be the guardian. It also comes right after the season where we learned that Master Fu wasn't a true guardian. All of this is the perfect setup for a true mentor character who shows up to fix things and maybe even give out some new powers!

Imagine how much better this season would have been if it was about Su-Han helping Ladynoir! If he saw the conflict and stepped in to guide them through it. You could even have him be closer to Adrien than Marinette to balance Marinette and Fu's relationship.

For example, what if the guardians didn't have the wacky staff that tracks down miracle boxes but not miraculous because then Gabriel would be defeated too easily? What if Su-Han just shows up and Marinette doesn't trust him, but Adrien does? And so Su-Han helps Adrien the most while Marinette keeps Su-Han at arms length just like she does Adrien because that's what Fu taught her to do and Fu was wrong about everything! This could still lead to the season four ending, but instead of it being a nothing burger where season five continues all of the same problems, instead season five is where Marinette embraces Su-Han and really starts to understand what it means to be a guardian and a partner? Things Fu never taught her because he kind of sucked at his job.

That's just one way to make Su-Han work. A way that keeps canon intact up to the start of season five because, while I hate season four's writing and "conflict" resolution, I can admit that there was potential in the base idea. You could also scrap all of season four and rewrite everything to keep things more light hearted while still letting Su-Han be a total upgrade.

You could even go the exact opposite direction and set Su-Han up to be the next big bad! Why have sentimonster freedom be a conflict (even though it really wasn't) when you could make everything about Kwami freedom? It's a really natural progression to go from defeating Gabriel to fighting for... institutional changes(?) in how the miraculous work. Let Kwamis pick their holders and remove their bonds so that Gabriel never happen again!

I really do mean it when I say that this show is bursting with potential. I wouldn't be so enthralled by how bad it is if it didn't have potential to be amazing.

[trainsinanime]

I feel like talking a bit more about Vanisher 2.0 and Red Volpina (todo: look up what these Miraculous Ladybug season 5 episodes are actually called). My previous review of them has been,

Yes there is stuff where the writing still has potential to get better (not once but twice does everybody in class believe a known liar over Marinette!? Marinette’s classmates suddenly realized Chloé was doing badly in school and somehow that’s Marinette’s problem!? Lol), but it’s still better than it’s ever been.

But maybe there's more to talk about here. Just a couple of days ago I saw a post that complained bitterly about how unfair it is that Marinette must always prove herself, and how Alya was a bad friend in these two episodes.

I don't think that's a great hot take, but I think there is a kernel of truth here. The writing in these episodes was not 100%, but in ways that are interesting to talk about. This isn't meant as salt; I watched the episodes with my sister and I had a lot of fun with them regardless of their flaws. I just think it's interesting.

First of all, I don't think it's actually a problem that Marinette must prove herself. Marinette encountering obstacles and overcoming them through cleverness and strength of will is the point of the show. That's literally fine.

The real issue here is that all the characters are written rather weirdly in order to make the plot happen. Alya is the most visible victim of this, but everyone suffers from it to a certain degree.

In fact, in Vanisher 2.0 (todo look up episode title), this even applies to the villains. Sabrina does not want to steal for Chloé because it goes against her code of ethics as a police officer's daughter. Where did that come from? She has stolen from Marinette before, on Chloé's behalf, back in Darkblade in season 1. The show is just summoning conflict out of thin air.

(There is probably a joke to be made here, about how the cop's daughter steals and plants fake evidence on Marinette to accuse her of a crime, but that's a different thing.)

But it is most notable with Marinette. In Vanisher 2.0 (todo look up title), everybody sees stolen high-value goods such as… paper doilies…? appear out of Marinette's bag, after Chloé told everyone they'd be in there. And the conclusion everyone draws is that Chloé is correct.

Then in Red Volpina, the class learns that Chloé has never made her own homework, something the teacher apparently never noticed before. The class somehow agrees with Lila that this is Marinette's fault for not recognising that Chloé is struggling, despite this not being Marinette's job, and despite Chloé's insistence that she isn't struggling, she just doesn't care.

Neither of these are at all consistent with basically anything that came before. The class knows who Chloé is, how vindictive, petty and entitled she is. They also know who Marinette is, are friends with her, and a surprisingly high percentage are or have been in love with her.

From a story perspective, it makes sense, though. Both episodes want to tell a particular story. In Adoration (todo fix all the spots where I called it Vanisher 2.0), the point is to get to Zoé's big heroic self-sacrifice for Marinette. In Revelation, it's about how always seeing the best in people can sometimes lead you astray. Those are both interesting ideas in their own right. It's just that the episodes used narrative shortcuts to get us there, and ignored character consistency along the way.

I think the point about Alya is the most important one here. Saying "Alya is a bad friend" is canonically not true (look at all the stuff our poor girl puts up with on Marinette's behalf), but also missing the forest for the trees. As smarter people than me have put it, Alya is often only in the story to make Marinette's internal conflict an external one, so we can see the different sides argue in screen instead of imagining them in our head. As a result of that, Alya is sometimes her own character, and sometimes, very often in fact, just whatever she needs to be to get the plot moving.

In Revelation (todo fix yada yada), the plot they had in mind wouldn't work at all if Alya took Marinette and Adrien seriously, and acted on all the information she has. So she just doesn't. That doesn't mean she's a bad friend, it means she's a narrative tool, one that the writers don't always wield super well. Alya is far from the most irrational person in this episode (come on, Gabriel, giving Lila superpowers again? Even though you know she hates you? That's just silly), but since she's one of the good guys and Marinette's best friend and often portrayed as the voice of reason, we notice it the most in her case.

I think the show is genuinely nice and fun, but there's no denying that its writing has flaws. Sometimes more, sometimes less, and these two episodes have some that just stand out a bit. Framing that as "the show is unfair to Marinette" (or even "Alya is a bad friend") is not an interesting way to discuss that, in my opinion. The real issue is that the show had a story it wanted to tell, only twenty minutes to do so, and so it crammed that story in with a crowbar, regardless of the cost. Both episodes have enough good moments to make up for it in my personal opinion, but they have central moments that are just plain clunky.

[chaifootsteps]

Oh boy you're probably tired of the miraculous asks but: I don't think Marinette or Adrien are the 'creators pets', I honestly think that role goes to Gabriel (Adrien's father)

So, for context, Adrien's mom is dead/in a coma, and Gabriel is trying to bring her back using the Ladybug and Cat Noir miraculous (think Mr. Freeze from Batman situation), so, he starts off as a kind of sympathetic villain. However, as the show goes on and you learn more, it just gets worse.

Gabriel has

Constantly kept Adrien locked in the house to the point that he's most likely going to have problems making friends/keeping them/knowing how to interact with people his own age

Refused to let Adrien's friends throw him a birthday party and gets him the same gift every year for three years (a fucking pen)

Has destroyed Paris more than once due to the fact he wants miraculous

Has almost killed his own son due to his own schemes

Upon learning his son is Cat Noir, he doubles down on his plans and turned Adrien evil TWICE (one time actually destroyed the world)

This one just squicks me out but the fact he made these rings programed with an AI of his son and Lila that you can customize to the point of them being in their underwear (And please keep in mind both Adrien and Lila are only fourteen)

When Adrien loses a book (that Gabriel had another copy of) by accident, and despite Adrien’s clear remorse and feeling terrible about it, Gabriel still takes away Adrien’s freedom, confines him to the house, distances him from all of his friends and even distances himself even more from Adrien, acting angry and making Adrien even guiltier all to protect his Hawkmoth identity

And also during this, he destroys any pictures of Adrien plus a drawing Adrien made as a child. In front of Adrien himself.

Adrien is what's referred to as a "sentimonster" which, long story short, is a human (Or anything, really) made by the peacock miraculous and there's a thing that can literally control them, that being Gabriel's wedding ring, which he uses to control Adrien constantly.

And what does Gabriel get after all of this? His wish to be reunited with his wife in Heaven. Yeah his plans changed at some point and now he gets to be dead and happy with his dead wife while Adrien's an orphan now.

I dunno maybe I'm just more willing to give Marinette and Adrien the benefit of the doubt because they're both fourteen and teenagers are stupid, but Gabriel is a full ass adult.