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imaginative-123 · 4 months ago

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Why Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have a Misandry Issue Part 1

A part of me questions myself if I have to make this post, but then I decided in my free time I finally let go of my doubts and have finally decided to make this post, bec deep inside I wanted to be honest with both of these shows how it depicts men including men who are part of the LGBTQ spectrum, the post will be me going in depth of the creator's shows, that includes the analysis and criticisms of Vivziepop's work.

TRIGGER WARNING:

This post will contain Sexual Assault, Sexual Harassment, R@pe, Power Dynamics/ Power Imbalance, Misogyny and Misandry.

If you are uncomfortable with this topic that I'm going to discuss, you can choose not to continue reading this post however if you are willing to continue regardless of the contents and sensitive topics that I'm going to discuss, please proceed with caution.

So first let's talk about Misandry, since this term isn't as well known as Misogyny, Misandry's definition is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex). However Misandry is a term I didn't recognize being used until this year when I found on Reddit that there are few posts and comments talking about it compared to Misogyny, and it surprised me why isn't this term isn't as talked about but then in my experience on Twitter and Reddit that there are certain subreddits and other comments denying that "Misandry doesn't exist."

To which I disagree while yes I'm a woman, I do see and experience Misogyny in online spaces including in real world and other women face thru issues like sexism, physical and emotional abuse from other men, r@pe, sexual harassment and etc., that still doesn't excuse being biased and ignore what men faced thru in real life, there are stories I've seen from other men who were drugged and also being physically abused by their ex girlfriend or other women, r@ped and sexually abused by the older woman or in this case an older man, I've seen a video before of a guy singing on stage only to get groped on his dick by a woman and she laughed at him and at the end he was shocked and left the stage from embarrassment, falsely being accused of sexual assault, toxic yaoi fangirls sexually harassing gay or straight men of who's the top and bottom, little boys being molested or raped by older people, families and that includes male and female teachers, telling Men to stop crying bec Boys can't cry, there is also a Twitter post from a woman wishing Male Suicide rates go up, there are few Twitter posts from Women wishing to abort male babies from existing, ignoring Male SA Victims and laugh at their experience bec they got "lucky" and wish they got into their place, Media that makes jokes about Male SA and etc., seeing these stories from men who experience that really made me feel sorry for them and I don't think they deserved that. Plus, this isn't me discrediting female victims I do also support them including male victims, in regards to r@pe just bec it happens to women it can also happen to men including people on the LGBTQ community and nobody deserved to be r@ped, I'm not an SA Survivor, but I'm so glad I didn't experienced it bec of how traumatizing and horrifying r@pe is, and also a comment earlier I've seen on Reddit is that Women and children r@ped and died from the hands of men, yes I'm not denying it definitely exists but doesn't mean we can ignore that it can happen to men including little boys in the hands of their abusers and murderers. Also my brother was physically abused by my father and my sister had to witnessed the abuse on front of her, my Mom and Dad were always fighting personal problems and I was also physically abused by my father before my parents separated and it took me years for my father to changed as a person before he died in Sept 5, 2016 due to Stroke. Plus this year is his death anniversary, I understand if there are children who can't forgive their abusive parent but for me my father proved to me that he can change as a person and I have already have forgiven him before he died.

The main reason why I want to discuss Misandry bec it relates to Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss while I can see many posts discussing how poorly the main female characters are handled by Vivziepop and I completely understand why the critical community have issues with that, the issues that happened with the male characters in regards to Misandry have few posts which is why I want to tackle it.

The next topic I want to tackle is the MLM or Gay Representation in the show Helluva Boss bec this also the main reason why I made this post.

Vivziepop and her crew loved to boast and pride about their Queer Representation but as someone who watched the show, as a bisexual woman myself, the Queer Representation is just as shallow and a mixed bag to be honest, the reason for that is Viv's depiction of gay men is not only misandrist but also sexist on how they were depicted. But before we deep dive to the male gay characters on how they were depicted I wanted to focus on the term that is mostly being used on fictional gay relationships that is Yaoi. Yaoi is a Japanese term for manga that features sexual romance between men, specifically as created by and for women. In the West, yaoi is used more generally to refer to any anime, manga, fan fiction, that focuses on romance between men. Although to be fair, Yaoi from what I've seen can also be consumed by gay men, the main reason I brought up Yaoi is that because Viv's shows are being accused of stereotypes about gay men such as fetishization of r@pe, power imbalance, sexual harassment and etc. That's because Yaoi is a very controversial subject in the community where there are gay people who are split about the depictions of gay men in Yaoi and BL's, there are gay men who dislike the fetishization and that it only appeals to women but there are others who defend it as just fiction.

For me personally I don't think there's an issue with consuming Yaoi or BL's and I'm not saying women can't enjoy it, but as someone who is desensitized to the stereotypes that BL I consumed in my earlier teen years I can't just ignore the real issue, bec back then I used to be a proshipper, I used to defend artists who were being sent death threats and harassments from antis and I used to defend problematic fiction and ships and I always go thru arguments with people who don't like it, I was offensive and also not mentally well in the past but as of this year I no longer support Proshipping since I do not stand by that including my not so great behavior from the past, but that doesn't mean I will not stoop down to the same level of antis that will harass or threaten proshippers and I don't accept that. However just bec it's fiction argument, it still needs to be criticized for valid reasons, and also just bec Yaoi have stereotypes does this mean the entire genre is like this? No, there are other stories who don't fall into the same problematic stereotypes, but still sadly, Yaoi and BL is still controversial for continuing it's stereotypical depiction of gay men and it's also mostly present in Webtoons and Manhwas.

When I revisited GoatJesus' video about Examining the Yaoi ★ BL Genre where he as a gay man analyzes but also criticize Yaoi's depiction of men but also praises other shows for straying away from stereotypes and there are certain parts of the video that stood out to me that I will put here where GoatJesus talks about the main points about Yaoi. To which I edited 2 clips into 1 video.

Regarding the women who write BL or Yaoi's, I'm not against women who write that specific genre, nor I'm mysogynistic that women have no freedom to write stories, and I do believe that not many female authors fall into writing stereotypes about gay men, however this does not mean that I can't just ignore that other women and other most popular female writers who still write harmful views onto gay men and this comment under GoatJesus video sums up my main issues from that online article that was being discussed.

The reason it's related to Vivziepop, bec Viv herself a female writer still falls into writing stereotypes about gay men and I will finally discuss on the subject of Helluva Boss first before Hazbin Hotel. The first characters we will going to tackle is Blitz, the main character and founder of IMP, and he himself is also confirmed to be Pansexual.

I'll be completely honest, Blitz is an interesting character, he himself have relationship problems of his insecurities getting in his way and mostly the mistakes that he made to people whom he used to be closed with, and he usually acts as confident and arrogant and badass on the outside but deep inside he had issues, but the way the show tackles jokes that Blitz made is really uncomfortable most especially in Season 1 where he made rape threats to Moxxie and his wife Millie.

That next episodes includes making demeaning jokes to Moxxie and let's not forget sexual harassment and invading space of the Imp couple.

The biggest problem is that Blitz up until Apology Tour had never tried to apologize for making Moxxie uncomfortable and invading him and his wife's personal space, while yes it is true that Blitz himself craves for a healthy relationship that he sees in them that doesn't excuse his past actions. This is not only the issue I see in Blitz's character this is also how other characters also treat him like dirt. Let's start with Loona, Blitz was a caring but also overprotective of Loona bec he himself first discovered Loona at the adoption center for Hellhounds where he saw Loona fending herself against a male hellhound who tried to hurt her and she herself was alone and crying about how depressing her situation was, which thankfully Blitz with good intentions did finally adopted her and became her dad, throughout S1 Loona herself was like any other emo goth girl but for Blitz regardless of Loona's personality still loved her, this however changed in Spring Broken where Loona developed a crush on Vortex and that's where Blitz developed his overprotective tendencies to which when they got in the human world where Loona tried to start a conversation with Vortex until Blitz interrupted them bec he wanted to focus on the main goal of getting back their parking space from Verosika and that's where they both started arguing bec Loona thinks Blitz can't leave her alone and she told him he's not her real dad and she herself views as an adult, Blitz cannot control his overprotective tendencies and Loona tells Blitz she doesn't need him. Loona later tries to apologize but Blitz cuts her off and tells her to enjoy her break while he continues finishing his job, although after Millie defeats the fish monster they both came back in the human world, in Truth Seeker, Loona and Millie where willing to rescue the boys who were left in the human world and being abducted by the Dhorks and Loona was willing to help her team defeat the members of the Dhorks and Loona was given a kiss in the cheek by Blitz and he was proud of her for helping IMP to which she was embarrassed but still continues fighting. The episode that stood out to me is Queen Bee which is the last segment where Loona takes care of the drunk Blitz and was willing to let him rest after Blitz tells her his insecurities of his fear of dying but Loona reassures him she will be there for him.

You know maybe Loona wasn't that bad to Blitz right? Right? Wrong, in the past I used to liked Seeing Stars bec of Loona and Octavia's relationship develop like sisters, yet this however doesn't excuse the problem on how Loona treats Blitz as she's suddenly violent and being abusive to Blitz for no reason like Blitz regardless of me not excusing how he treated Moxxie, but I don't recall him sexually harassing Loona nor talking about her body, all I remember is him trying to be a good dad to Loona yet somehow he's in the wrong for wanting Loona to be better and yet at the end get kicked in the nuts for no reason despite Blitz wanting to apologize to her because?

"HAHAHA! IT'S GIRLBOSS, AND FEMINIST TO KICK MEN IN THE NUTS FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN COMEDY! PLEASE LAUGH!!!"

That's not funny, that's insulting and it definitely regressed the development of Loona and Blitz father and daughter relationship in the first season. Loona however just like Blitz had never apologized for treating people in the wrong and the show somehow forgot about it and it just went back to normal. So anyways let's talk about Stolas, Stolas is by far one of the most controversial characters in the show bec there are people being split about his character, there are fans who loved him but there are haters who truly hated him, bec there are reasons the critical space is not fond or welcome of him, that's bec he has the power in the relationship bec he and Blitz were in a transactional relationship where Blitz is required to have sex with Stolas so that he can still borrow the Grimoire book to the human world for his business of killing people. The Reason there is a Power Imbalance comes from the fact that Blitz an Imp that is a lower class demon and Stolas is from the Goetia a higher class demon above imps and not only Goetias are also racists and looked down upon Imps with the exception of Octavia. This is the common trope that you may see in problematic relationships that also includes transactional relationships in Yaoi and BL's where the Seme has the power and masculinity in the relationship while the Uke is lower and have no agency of his free will and this is the equivalent of a heternomative stereotypes that is placed upon 2 men, while there are people who analyzed Yaoi said that it have Misogynistic tropes bec of hetenormative roles places upon men, I'd say in my opinion it's more Misandrist bec it doesn't view men in an actual gay relationship but in a lens of a straight person on how they view gay men. This is however in Helluva Boss the roles are reversed since Blitz is the top while Stolas is the power bottom, but let's be real if Stolas a Rich Goetia is the Top and have power in the relationship while Blitz is the bottom in lower class it would be much more controversial and people would see it more as sexual coercion. But bec the roles are reversed and why there are fans of the ship don't view it as toxic bec Stolas a gay bottom man was babyfied by the narrative that can't do wrong in the relationship and that Stolitz is just a misunderstanding of bad communication in a relationship when if anyone with critical lens would look deeper and see the relationship as problematic and there is a power imbalance in their relationship yet I found out that one of the fans of HB said that Stolitz is meant to be endgame by Viv, and I was like did Viv see nothing wrong in their relationship? The relationship was built from transaction, including Stolas sexually harassing Blitz in front of his daughter, was the result of cheating from his wife Stella as to why she was rightfully upset at her husband and it was retconned in Season 2 to make her a cartoonish villain with no depth compared to Stolas, and they were supposed to be canon at end? No thank you, Ma'am, Blitz deserved a better partner than Stolas or hell he could've fixed his relationship with Verosika since I found their relationship more interesting than Stolitz, yet Blitz was the one who should apologize to Stolas instead of Stolas taking accountability and not apologizing for looking down on him, sexually harassing him and having the power in the relationship. It's just frustrating to watch that not only diminishes the YT views of S2 compared to S1 but the relationship overtakes the premise of the show about assassination. Doesn't help the fact the show has the will they don't they kind of relationship where the show finds Stolitz to be romantic but also not romantic at the same just like how Viv and her writing staff view them.

Now let's talk about Chaz, he's the character I truly hate on my first viewing of him last year when the episode was released, he's the embodiment of everything wrong with Helluva Boss with it's overused of sex jokes relating to male genitalia or dick jokes and sexual harassment, the guy was just only part of Crimson's Mafia and being both Moxxie and Millie's ex boyfriend. His only character was just being annoying, talks about how sexy he was, his dick, sexually harassing Moxxie and annoying Millie and we don't exactly know why they break up, and his music theme is annoying to listen to. It's even worse that he's Pansexual and just like the main male characters in the show where they nonstop talk about their genitalia like Blitz, I'm serious what's the purpose of his character anyway? He almost serves no purpose to the narrative unless it was just him marrying Moxxie so he can get into Crimson's wealth. I'll be completely honest I'm glad he died, I felt so frustrated to watch him, and unfortunately he had a cult fanbase dedicated to him and there are others like me who don't like him either. I feel like I'm questioning Viv's view on gay men is disturbing to be honest.

Lastly, I wanna talk about Moxxie, my dear poor bisexual Moxxie, he was the character who was the the victim of sexual harassment, the butt of jokes, being humiliated for being in a healthy relationship with Millie that is being set in Hell. I do feel bad for how he was treated by the narrative that involves around SA, the show constantly makes jokes about Moxxie being SA by Verosika and her crew including Chaz and Blitz,

Doesn't help the fact in which he was forced to marry Chaz when he's also forced to wear a Wedding Dress against his will and was being tied up and turned to a damsel in distress for Millie to saved him, I'll be completely honest, I have no issues with Moxxie being Bisexual, the issue comes from the fact that the female and male characters humiliate and SA him and was being forced to a feminine role against his will, it's one thing if a gay man wants to express freely his sexuality and I have no issue with that, men can express being gay and not be shamed for it. The issue was that Moxxie was being forced against his will and it was irritating to see him like that, the last time the show never humiliates him is when he licks Blitz Asmodeus crystal to help him to activate and go back to the human realm bec Blitz conveniently can't activate it himself. However this does not excuse how the past episodes treat him.

This is the post I will make for Helluva Boss bec I have to rest and I will make a second post about Hazbin Hotel when I have time since there's a lot of stuff to unpack in another post. Just a reminder, this post I made have no bad intentions towards Vivziepop and her staff, this is just me a Bisexual Woman who consumes BL who was also being critical of the genre that I'm consuming and giving my personal and honest thoughts of Viv's depiction of her Gay men in her shows. Just a reminder if you want to comment on my post that's fine but I do not accept bigotry and homophobia, bec I might as well block you, all I want is a personal discussion of the gay representations being represented in the show. Thank you and Goodnight.

Edit: I just found out that there is a minor retweeted my post while I do understand that they are also critical of the show however my account says Minors do Not Interact since my post also tackles adult themes that is not suitable for minors and also I personally disagree with their views on Lucifer but regardless, if a minor sees this post please do not interact. Bec I might as well block you, I don't think an adult like me should be discussing adult stuff in front of minors in online spaces.

#helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop critique #helluva boss critique #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin hotel criticism #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse critique

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canonically47 · 2 months ago

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i don’t like how almost the entire fandom is on jimmy’s ass but loves curly. while jimmy undoubtedly did worse things, curly PROTECTED HIM. you cannot stand there at your computer and type straight-faced about how ‘jimmy is a horrible monster!! ...but curly could treat anya sooooo well’ like HUH??? this game is NOT about how jimmy is the worst person alive ever WITHOUT also the message of curly being AT LEAST half as bad.

because HE KNEW. and i think this is also beautifully represented through his design. he chose to turn a blind eye to anya’s struggles, HE CHOSE TO NOT SEE, and then, after the crash, he found himself with one eye constantly open, FORCED TO SEE. and by god did he see. he saw, first-hand, how protecting his absolute bastard of a friend led to the death of the entire crew and their prolonged sufferring. i saw one person suggest that the scene in which swansea kills daisuke could be from curly’s POV since it aligns perfectly with the hallway and the look he would get of the scene.

so curly, who once always protected his friend and turned a blind eye to his misdemeanors, is now forced to see these terrible events unfold firsthand. because guess what? it’s about half of curly’s fault for these events jimmy creates. because he could have prevented so much if only he wasn’t part of this toxic culture of males protecting each others from the consequences of their own actions.

now before i get any angry comments or reblogs: i do not despise curly. i do not even despise jimmy as a character. i condemn their actions 110%, ESPECIALLY jimmy’s - but i think they’re such deep and shockingly real, raw depictions of humans that not only could, but DO exist. as concepts and characters, i admire wrong organ for their bravery to create them into existence - and i hate them as people. again, they are representatives of the toxic culture males have in which they protect each other (“my buddy couldn’t have raped/SA’d/etc her because i know him and he wouldn’t do that!!” etc etc.) and it is so upsetting but so necessarry to witness this. i just wish the fandom would be willing to witness it fully, not just go “FUCK JIMMY” “so sorry you had to draw jimmy” while simultaneously pushing out curly x reader or saying shit like “curly just wanted everyone to be happy :(” “curly would treat anya better” etc etc.

this is such a raw and real story once again ruined by a fandom whose minds are rotted by hehe hot man, toxic yaoi, and amatonormativity. and yea that sounds funny when you read it but so many of the messages of the game are ignored in favor of all the above. i’m tired of it!!!

TL;DR: i condemn both jimmy AND curly’s actions and i think that you guys should not give curly a pass for protecting jimmy. if you’re going to call jimmy a horrible fucked-up monster, acknowledge that curly enabled him time and time again.

#hoowee thats a lot #anyways #mouthwashing #mouthwashing game #wrong organ #jimmy mouthwashing #mouthwashing jimmy #captain curly #curly mouthwashing #mouthwashing curly #mouthwashing analysis #game analysis #long post #my rambles

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1moreff-creator · 4 months ago

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Extra DRDT CH2 Episode 12 Thoughts

Heya! After making my last post where I just live-blogged my immediate reaction to the episode, I had a few more thoughts that I figured I should write down somewhere. They’re all too small for their own posts, but I still think they’re worth sharing.

Spoilers for CH2 EP12

CW: Murder, hanging, suicide.

The Water Thing

This episode brought up two interesting points which had rarely, if ever, been discussed within the fandom: Arei’s body swinging, and her body temperature and its connection to water. And while I’m relatively sure I saw one or two people mention the swinging at some point, the temperature issue is certainly a new one.

The swinging was explained in the trial: Arei’s body was hung shortly before it was found. But J says something interesting; the corpse should have been warm, unless it was drenched in water and dried. Paraphrasing a bit, but you get the point.

However, I actually don’t think this is a big deal, just adds a slight addendum to previous murder theories. We know the killer dumped the fish in the playground to confuse time of death, so I believe the killer likely splashed Arei with the water to cool her down. This is assuming they even thought about the body temperature, but I don’t think this is a large assumption to make.

I have seen people claim that Arei’s hair looks somewhat wet in the BDA, which… maybe? Anyways, this idea would explain that as well.

This might even give us Possible Explanation Number I Lost Count for the damn missing glove. Maybe it got particularly wet and the culprit worried it wouldn’t dry quickly enough? If people discovered a dripping wet bowling glove, the whole “using fish to confuse the time of death” thing would kinda go straight out the window. I have no idea if that makes any amount of sense, I don’t see why the glove would dry any slower than the rest of her clothes, but oh well.

Arturo’s Talent, and his Recap Foil: Levi

(Here’s the link to the original Recap Foil Theory post by gleamingtempest, in case you don’t know what I’m talking about).

Kinda forgot this was a thing when first watching the episode, but now looking back on it, there’s some neat foiling going on. Levi and Arturo’s backstory already were somewhat opposites in some aspects: Arturo got away from home himself while Levi was disowned, though Levi seems to hold a higher degree of respect for his family in comparison to Arturo. Levi is (now confirmed!) a murderer with no remorse, while Arturo accidentally caused Felicity’s death to some extent and clearly feels guilty about it. Etcetera.

Well, we can add a new detail to this foil! Arturo’s been training his talent since he was twelve, while Levi has admitted since introduction that he’s “a novice to fashion.” Neat detail, and certainly adds to this theory.

Terumin VS Xanvid

Thanks to Haru for pointing this out, but Teruko’s “I’ll fix my mistake” echoes Min’s “I’ll fix your mistake” from her Argument Armament. As I mentioned in the linked post, it’s cool that Teruko is taking a sort of Min-like attitude to her mistakes while calling Xander out, while David is taking Xander’s side in the same trial he calls Min pathetic. Foils and all that.

(Doomed Yuri V Doomed Yaoi, fight!)

This makes me hopeful that Min will still have some importance later. But I’m probably just coping.

What Was David Cooking?

I am kinda sick of talking about this man, frankly. I blame the almost three hour video I made on his MV. But oh well, he’ll stop being center focus soon enough. For now, His Deal is still one of the most central aspects of the episodes, so discuss him I will.

There are two big points of contention with what he said this trial. First, what does he remember about Xander? Second, what was he actually trying to do by pretending to be Arei’s murderer?

The first is pretty simple to assume, I think. David remembers whatever Xander did to become the Ultimate Rebel, and respects him as a result. Especially since Xander’s numeral I in LGI, the Footnote 14 code solved by y-prime, is “I have always looked up to you.”

I don’t think David has Hope’s Peak memories, despite his weird wording with “even if you all lost a year of memories.” He specifically says he and Xander had never met in his Prologue introduction, before they had any real reason to believe they’d lost memories. The LGI video also doesn’t add anything, because… well, it’s not a Milgram MV. It doesn’t come from his memories, it exists purely in meta. This is evident from the comments referencing Byakuya, Nagito and Kokichi, characters these people should have no knowledge of as Veronika claims not to remember anything like the DRDT killing game happening before; certain references to conversations and details David shouldn’t be aware of (mainly in numeral placement), etc.

(While I was writing that, the dev seemingly clarified that David does not have Hope’s Peak memories, then deleted the tweet, so. Just in case, there’s the full reasoning)

The second one is trickier. David is following Xander’s ideals, but that’s all we know. We don’t have a concrete idea of what Xander’s ideals really were, and it’s even harder to know what David thinks Xander’s ideals were.

David: I’m sure he had a good reason. I believe that he did. Xander is not the kind of person to do anything for frivolous purposes.

He believes Xander had a good reason for trying to kill Teruko, he says he’s sure of it, but he never implies to know exactly what the reason was. And if he doesn’t know the exact reason, he can’t for sure say what ideal Xander was upholding by doing what he did.

But, he knows what Xander was trying to do; kill everyone. Because if it was just Teruko, he wouldn’t have tried to mislead people with the CD thing. Although, Xander was following that one note that said to “kill Teruko Tawaki,” so it could potentially be targeted.

So, taking credit for Arei’s murder to try and kill everyone is because Xander tried to do something similar. But the deeper reason he gave, about the nature of the killing game, is it true?

(Apologies in advance for the particularly horrible collage. I am without a reliable computer atm)

David [Annoyed]: Ugh, fucking fine. You want an answer so badly? Any answer?

[Face covered] …

I…

[Sweating] Ah… We’re… in a television show, after all. That’s… what MonoTV said, right?

“Entertainment” is an ongoing show.

If Min successfully got away with the very first murder and escaped while we all died, isn’t that way less interesting for a TV show?

What’s the point of roping 14 other people into one murder, only to kill them all off immediately?

The killer is supposed to fail and get executed. We’re all supposed to catch the killer, again and again, and participate in trial after trail. You’re *supposed* to try to survive.

All of you, who are trying to slice these class trials to continue living on are playing straight into MonoTV’s hands.

[Confident] As if I’ll accept that.

I don’t care how low I’ll sink, or how despicable I’ll have to become. I’ll do anything to carry on Xander’s ideals by ending this killing game, even if it means that I have to dirty my hands.

Oh, this man is lying out his ass.

This is not an answer you hesitate over if it’s true. The words David is saying are neutral; the show is meant for entertainment, and it’s not entertaining if people die early. There’s no controversy there, no reason to be nervous. Especially since Eden’s already come to the same conclusion.

Veronika: You know, Eden once thought of an interesting plan to end the killing game. Based on everything we know, it could theoretically work.

[…]

To make a television show so boring they have no choice but to shut it down.

All we have to do is nothing.

You’re not supposed to be sweating when you’re effectively repeating something Eden said, even if under a different context.

First, David says he’ll give “any answer”, already making anything he says shady. Then, he seems to deliberate on what to say, which is already suspicious.

The most notable thing is that when he starts talking about the TV show, and what it means for it to be entertaining, he still hesitates. If his plan really was to make the TV show boring, once he decides to spill the beans, there’s nothing to hesitate about.

He only regains his confidence at the end, ironically when he’s saying the actually insane stuff. He finally finds the character he was trying to play and actually says something true; he wants to uphold Xander’s ideals and end the killing game. But I really don’t think it’s because he wants to make it boring.

In other words, he’s not lying about wanting to follow Xander and end the killing game, but his explanation about the entertainment has nothing to do with that. It’s way too simple of an explanation for the amount he hesitates. At least, that’s what I think, I may be wrong.

That brings us to the question; if he didn’t take the blame to make the game boring, why did he do it?

Well, currently and without too much confidence, I believe it has to do with Xander’s secondary goal; killing Teruko Tawaki.

One of the most well-accepted theories in the community is that David’s secret, “everything in your life is worth killing over [and] the killing game is all your fault,” isn’t Xander’s, but Teruko’s.

(In fact, side theory: I’m betting (on little evidence) that by the end of the trial, it will be David with his fanboy knowledge to point out that the “survivor’s guilt” secret that Min “received” was actually Xander’s, and reveal by process of elimination (since it’s likely going to be revealed in the trial that Hu has Veronika’s secret and Veronika has Hu’s, assuming those theories are true) that Min has the poison secret. It’s a bit of a wild prediction, but I think it’s a reasonable possibility to how the series would go about confirming the secrets of the dead)

That, combined with the fact that Xander followed a note that told him to kill Teruko, would certainly be enough for David to decide that Teruko’s gotta die. And killing everyone in the class trial is probably the best way to ensure that happens, since David probably doesn’t hunk attacking her directly is a good idea. If Xander, physically the strongest student in the cast, couldn’t get past Teruko’s luck, what the hell is David supposed to do? Especially now that she carries a knife, though I’m not sure David knows that.

It’s not even that out of nowhere; in the LGI video, Teruko’s numeral XIII appears next to a quote regarding the child of Omelas among other things. Very long story (skip to 1:22:22 in this video for the full explanation), but the child of Omelas is someone who must suffer so everyone else can live in a perfect world. It’s possible David thinks of Teruko, for one reason or another, as the Omelas child; she’s gotta die so everyone can be happy. She is someone “deeply unloved” after all.

Now, is this a stretch? Certainly. But I don’t think David’s telling the truth about his motivations, and I think this is one of the more likely options as to what exactly he was cooking here. I’m sure there’s better explanations out there, I just haven’t seen them :v

David VS Whit

I kinda skipped over the “Red Herring pun to David Freakout” line at first, but I think it’s pretty interesting that David gets so mad at Whit’s behavior. They are Recap Foils, so it makes sense they’d have strong emotions towards each other.

In particular, I’d like to point out how David gets mad at Whit for something similar to what he does as a motivational speaker.

I mentioned it in the previously mentioned section of my LGI analysis, but I believe part of the reason David hates Teruko is that he sees himself in her (pessimistic, thinks the world won’t change, etc), and this would be the other side of that. David constantly says things he doesn’t believe to make people happy, and he considers that to be pretty stupid, so it makes sense for him to get frustrated when seeing Whit doing something similar, trying to raise spirits by telling jokes. Looking at Whit is sorta like looking in a mirror, and David hates that. The mirror in LGI is labeled “reflection is due” for a reason.

I’m not fully sure this works 100%, but I think it’s at least worth considering.

Updates on Eden!Culprit Levi!Accomplice

In case you’re new here, here’s a link to my post detailing the Eden!Culprit Levi!Accomplice theory, which I came up with alongside some other theorists, and is what I currently believe the murder to be. My thoughts on possible character motivation and the such have shifted a bit since then, but the important part is the physical evidence. In particular, the combination of Lockdown Logic to determine Eden most likely took the tape from the gym and the Fish Timeline to determine someone else must have helped her get the fish, combined with the overly complicated murder method which I describe in detail, leads me to believe Eden is the blackened, and Levi helped her kill Arei.

I’m not going to talk about other theories, I’ll let the dedicated theorists perfect them with the new evidence in their own time. But, how does this theory change?

On the surface, uh, not much. We haven’t talked method much, after all.

(Side note, I know some people are bothered by how long that’s taking, and while I kinda get it, I’m not bothered by it. We’re in no rush; I prefer it if all the character conflict is addressed at some point, even if it delays talking about the actual method. Better than it going unaddressed, after all)

The only change is adding that they splashed Arei with water to hide her body temperature, but as discussed, that’s a minor change.

The big wrench thrown into this theory is the end, because… I’ll be honest, dear audience, I have no clue what Levi’s cooking here. Like, at all. Zero read on why he’s revealing his secret. I could try to speculate, but I can’t find any fully satisfactory answer even outside the Levi!Accomplice theory. Nothing makes sense to me, so I’ll just wait for the next episode before trying to read into it.

There is one unrelated thing I want to bring up, though, and it’s related to Levi’s possible motivation. I know this is one of the biggest sticking points in the theory (obviously), so I’d like to talk about it.

As a refresher: although alternate ideas have been offered, my current guess is that it has to do with his desire to be a good person, and the fact he considers Eden a good person. Cue the whole “A Good Person” hidden title behind “All That Glitters.”

Levi: Perhaps I messed up yesterday. But I want to move on. I want to keep trying to become ‘a good person,’ like you, Eden.

The idea goes like this. Levi thinks Eden is good, and so he wants to do good by her. Based on the secret quote in the code of his character page, we can tell he prefers to speak through actions. He’s a bold action man, and that can cause him to come off as heartless.

Levi: I always believed that a person is defined by their actions alone. But maybe that’s just a poor excuse for my heartlessness.

My personal theory (again, other Levi motives are possible) assumes that Levi believes someone will win the killing game eventually (and this is an assumption, I won’t deny it), and if only one persona can escape, he’d rather it be Eden than anyone else. Again, “good person.” Levi will die, sure, but unless he becomes a blackened himself, he’s going to die regardless whenever someone gets away with murder.

Now, this isn’t anything drastically different than what I said in the theory post, so why am I bringing it up?

Well, the thing is… Doing something horrible, throwing away your own life and those of most of your peers, all for the sake of the one you’ve deemed to be “a good person”…

Now where have I heard that before?

David: But doing “good” things requires sacrifice. Sometimes that sacrifice is being seen as a good person.

Even if doing something makes you hated, if that action is for a greater good, then it’s an action you have to take.

Xander is a good person. He’s the only good person I’ve ever known. I swear, I’ll follow in his footsteps and—

Huh. Funny how that works.

My point is that not only is “doing good by the only good person here” now a pre-established line of reasoning these characters can have, Levi doing such a thing for Eden would be a very interesting parallel to what David tried to do for Xander.

This isn’t evidence, to be clear. Just because one guy does it, doesn’t mean a completely unrelated dude is gonna do it too. But I’m calling it now as a potentially interesting parallel to explore, either in canon if I’m right or, like, an AU if I’m wrong :v

That said, I will point out that Hu’s capital G Girlboss Moment is directly after this, the one where she chews David out for deciding what’s best for all of them without consultation. And a little bit afterwards, Levi starts acting weird, apologizing for being useless, revealing his secret, etc. These two things could be connected, if Levi is, like, having second thoughts after that.

I could see a world where Levi’s trying to bring the conversation towards the right answer without fully committing to it, only for something or someone to somehow convince him back to accomplice-hood middway through it. I find that immensely unlikely, to be clear, but again, I genuinely have no idea what Levi’s trying to do right now, so.

All in all, a pretty neutral episode for this theory. Next one could completely break it, though, so I’m excited. I might have to come up with new theories! >:D

God I missed DRDT. And the only drawback of coming back is re-opening LGI trauma :D /silly

Anyways, thanks for reading! See you on the flipside!

#drdt #danganronpa despair time #drdt theory #levi fontana #drdt spoilers #david chiem

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divine-misfortune · 3 months ago

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Frost has a bite

Kinktober day 3: Temperature play

Rating: Explicit

Relationship(s): Alpha/Omega

Words: 614

Tags: Exhibitionism, public sex, Omega gets head in a seedy bar bathroom, blowjobs, handjobs, temperature play, Alpha and Omega bickering like always, old man yaoi

Read on ao3 or below the cut

Alpha had a magic touch.

Those two rough hands could bring a sane man to their knees, and while Omega was on his feet he still found himself dangling precariously between heaven and hell with those fingers wrapped around the girth of his cock. Fraying the rope that held him further with every slow stroke. With one he gripped him at the base, a tight circle that might as well have been the noose being looped around his neck, and the other kept a torturous pace, smiling devilishly all the while.

Omega knew he was being led straight to hell and was helpless to stop it, the heat of Alpha’s hands made him certain of it. Not hot but warm - warm enough to flush the whole of his cock a pretty shade of pink, the head fully reddened as it began to drip onto the tile before the kneeling fire ghoul.

“You’re horrible.” He hissed through his teeth, fingers flexing at his sides, nails scratching at the wall behind him. “Hurry up, I’m going to be late.”

“I’m trying to do somethin’ nice Megs, bruising my knees on this dirty floor for you, and I haven’t gotten a lick of gratitude.” Alpha didn’t look up at him, tone beyond dismissive. He squeezed him at the base again and dragged the circle up the length, curving his dick upwards.

“Well your timing is ter-terrible.” His growl wavered when Alpha kissed at the place his shaft met his sack, the small puff of air as he laughed sent a shudder running through him. “I’ll be thankful when you shut up and get on with it. Do something a little more useful with your mouth.”

“Oh c’mon baby, I know you can ask nicely.” Another kiss just below the head, tapping it against his lips for good measure. He knew just how to play him, Omega practically drooled over the sight of his cock laid out on his handsome face. “Go on.”

“Fucking hell, Al. Blow me or get out of the way and I’ll get myself off.”

Alpha rolled his eyes.

Somehow Omega missed the coy way Alpha smiled until it was too late, the evil beast - he lived up to his role as a creature of something unholy. Wisps of steam escaped his parted lips as he laved his tongue along the vein on the underside of his shaft and Omega responded bodily. His eyes just about bulged out of his head, broad frame shivering like something delicate. Accustomed to him and his hellish hands, Omega’s body was running hot, he’d been expecting Alpha’s mouth to mirror his touch but it was far from it.

His mouth fell open, head hitting the wall. The wires in his brain fizzled out, crossing and tangling as conflicting sensations assaulted his nerves.

The fire ghoul pinned his hips to the wall and sunk down his length till the tip of his nose bumped against his belly, burying his cock into the uncharacteristically cold embrace of his throat, dragging a pitched gurgled sound out of his typically well spoken mate. Reduced to confused, guttural sounds that echoed shamefully off the bathroom walls, growing in volume as Alpha began to lazily bob his head.

“T-That’s why you, fuck, were asking the bartender for ice chips all night?!” Omega pulled his palm down his face, brow furrowing. “You were planning this shit, oh I can’t fucking stand you.”

He sat back on his heels, pulling off of him with a loud pop and a grin, taking him back in his hands which felt damn near scalding in comparison.

”Mist’s idea, don’t be mad at me darling dearest. I simply follow orders.”

#spicy tag #writing #void writing #kinktober #kinktober 2024 #ghostober 2024 #nameless ghouls #alpha ghoul #omega ghoul #alpha/omega #alpha x omega #the band ghost #ghost the band #the band ghost fanfiction #ghostober

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ghosts-cant-sleep · 2 months ago

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you told me love is to pray (i'm sorry, i dont pray that way)

russell adler x male! reader warnings: average mlm soviet era situationship, a wittle sexual but not straight smut, age gap, toxic yaoi, not proof read lolz notes: posted in honor of bo6 coming out!!! i love the bo series sosososo much and cw was def a favorite. lowkey rlly hoping this years cod will have the same effects as mw22 because jesus christ the men in the black ops series r SO fine and it's criminal that they dont get the attention they deserve. give me bo requests rn. like rn.

fem dni

CIA SAFEHOUSE E9, "DIE LANDEBAHN"

[Name][L.Name], CIA

52.6200 N. 13.4050 E. West Berlin

March 8th, 1981

The dank musk of the safehouse had long since grown stuffy and suffocating, a damp draft they could never quite figure out. The stench of tobacco was seldom better, but it was everywhere, clinging to the walls.

Adler sat at the edge of his thin, stiff matress. The sheets pulled from the corners and tangled around him, tugged over his lap in an attempt to preserve whatever dignity he thought he still had.

He keeps his elder on his knees and his eyes glued to the floor, concrete cold bent his bare feet. He tried to ignore the sleeping body behind him. A sleeping body who had no place with him, yet there he was all the same. He wasn't sure what to do with all this.

It was hardly four in the morning, but Adler had long since given up his fight for rest. His hands instead found his zippo, the weight in his hand, an old, comforting friend. He fiddles with the cap, calloused thumb rubbing against the cold metal surface, flicking the cap up, then shutting it with a 'click.'

Christ, how far he's fallen. Where did his resolve go, his self-control, his dignity? How had he made himself so easy to beckon into the hands of another man, nearly half his age, no less. He was better than this. He had to be.

He'd liked to believe his hands only ever yearned for [Name]'s skin when his brain was at its slowest, in the midst of a drunken stupor, but he'd be lying through his teeth. Even now, he fights to keep his gaze off of him, imagining how [Name]'s body looks stretched across the matress, sheets thrown askew over his bare body, the scars carved into his skin that seemed to age him decades.

With a tired sigh, Adler's hands find his coat, thrown haphazardly on the nightstand. He fiddles with the fabric, leather squeaking and rustling as his fingers search through pockets, plucking out a pack of cigarettes.

The cardboard box is wrinkled and hardly intact, falling apart in his hands. There's only a couple left, and the thought makes him nervous.

He slides one one out, and not a moment later, it's held between his lips, pack tossed aside, and his lighters flame igniting the end. The stench of smoke is quickly to fill the room, pungent. The immediate buzz brings a soothing lul to his mind, quieting his worries.

He knows the relief is temporary, it always is, but the moment he lets himself pretend he doesn't realize.

Behind him, [Name] stirs awake, mused up by the smell of tobacco. The matress shifts with his weight, the springs screach, the blankets pull.

Adler sneaks a glance over his shoulderx watching as the young man behind him turns to lay in his back inside, eyes still screwed shut. He stretches out like a cat, back arching against the matress, sheets bending within the dips of his legs as they bustle beneath the bedding. His skin is littered with evidence of Adler.

Who, in turn, is quick to avert his eyes back to the cigarette burning away in his fingers, pinched almost too tightly between his thumb and index. With a shakey hand, he lifts it back to his mouth, taking a greedy huff.

[Name]'s eyes blink in the darkness that still shrouds the room, pale moonlight filtering in through the dirtied windows, and the slight glow from Adler's cigarette.

His gaze finds purchase on Adler's back. Even in the fuzzy, dim light, he still feels like he can make out every detail. He traces up the length of his spine, brain filling in where every freckle, mole, and scar would lay. He doesn't miss how the muscles of his back roll under the weight of his eyes.

"It's rude to stare," Adler huffs out, voice abrupt and bearish as he cuts through the stillness. Smoke rolls off his tounge with every breath, disapating into the room.

"What's rude is not offering a hit," [Name] retorts, unbothered by the calloused tone of Adler's voice. He was always like this the morning after, the asshole. [Name] grown used to it quickly-- he always came back around.

The scratchy material of the matress bends under his weight as he moves to his knees, settling behind Adler. He leans in close, letting the warmth of Adler's back soothe the cold skin of his chest, pressing their bodies close.

Despite whatever naivety Adler saw in [Name], he wasn't some idiot kid. Adler was far from a good, nobel man, and anyone with half a functioning brain could see that clear as day. He saw that dark charm, that relentless ambitious, with what ease it took for his words to bend the minds of the people around him-- and maybe he's fooled himself into thinking he's ammune to it.

He wished Adler could make up his mind. There was a constant push and pull, hot and cold, soft and doting one second, then cold and dry the next. It was tiresome. He was sure Adler felt... troubled in regards to the situation they'd gotten themselves wrapped up in.

What he wasn't sure about was exactly how he fared in Adler's thoughts, what the man makes of him. Was he an asset, a tool, a teammate, a liability, a lover, something better, something worse?

There was a certainty in the back of his mind that he tried to ignore. If it came down to it, him or Adler, he doesn't think it'd take much for Adler to make that decision.

There wasn't a single word out of Adler's mouth he could trust wholeheartedly. Nonsense stories about whatever scar [Name] had proded at, every word of support, every promise, every notion of praise muttered against [Name]'s sweat soaked skin.

All the same, [Name] let's his chin rest against the junction of Adler's neck and shoulder, leaning his weight onto the older man. With a sluggish groan, his arms, still heavy with sleep, wrap around Adler's torso.

"You're a fiend," Adler huffs, sneaking a sidelong glance at the toung man drapped against him, only able to make out the blured lines of his hair from the corner of his eye. "I cut the checks around here-- I know you make enough to quit bumming off me."

All the same, he steals a quick breath before raising the cigarette up to [Name]'s lips. He feels the warmth of his breath and can imagine with ease the way his lips part just to wrap around the filter.

He takes a long, slow hit, the burning paper sizzling, burning brighter. He lets the toxicity fill his mouth, burn his throat, flood into his lungs, warm his blood. He can't help but smile around the butt.

He takes a moment to savor the flavor before letting the smoke drift from his lips, eyeing the ribbons, noting the shape it takes.

"They taste better from your packs."

"Bastard."

"Hm." He sounds far too pleased with himself.

A moment of affection breaches past Adler's will. His free hand finds a place on [Name]'s own, resting gently, pliant fingers wrapping loosely around him. His thumb finds the curve of his wrist, rubbing against the thin skin shrouding the bone.

The small gesture pulls a soft sigh from [Name]. He focuses on the feeling, letting it silent the rampant hum of his thoughts.

He leans his head against Adler's, eyelids relenting to the heft that pulled them close. He relaxes into whatever faux comfort Adler provides. It was a tricky little thing to resist, giving into this simple desire, the brief beats of calm. What was the harm in playing pretend a little while longer? They were both good at it.

"You're cold," Adler complains, despite how he leans back into [Name]'s skin, even if just slightly. Regardless, he makes half an effort to rid [Name] off his shoulders.

"It's not me, it's the room," [Name] rebuttals back with a defensive scoff, sinking deeper into the heat of Adler's body, feeling the scratch of his stubble against his cheek. He speaks low, "You're just really warm," he mutters, hot breath hitting Adler's skin.

His hands spread flat against Adler's skin, fingers sprawled, greedy for more purchase on his flesh. One hand follows the line between his abs up towards the dip in his chest, touch firm, and certain. The other is lighter, softer, teasing the nails of his fingers trace instable patterns between Adler's hipbones, brushing against the hem of the sheet.

Adler nearly allows himself to once again fall back into [Name]'s hands, giving into his touch. The smooth skin of the young man's hands gliding over the bumbs and ridges of scars carved into his skin.

But, just as he'd be trained to, he pushes through the temptation, the desire, the buzz [Name] brought to the pit in his lower stomach.

His hold on [Name]'s wrist turns firm and almost cruel, pulling a slight hiss from the youger man, hand stilling against Adler's body.

He pulls out of Adler's constraint, leaning back away from him, the air around them suddenly feeling much too frigid.

Adler finally spares a glance over his shoulder, staring straight on into [Name], breath mingling, noses brushing together.

Adler looks older than he is. The crows feet at the outer corners of his eyes are deep and only seem wose at this early of an hour. A scowl personality ghosts his features, lips pursed, a perpetual frown even when all seems good. His eyes are a hollow blue as they bore back into [Name]. They narrow just a twitch-- observing, scrutinizing.

The gaze Adler meets is like a cruel parody of his own. His gaze is tight and narrowed, but still too soft. Boyish. All that ages him are his eyes-- the dark bags heavy beneath them, and although his wide-eyed look may be green and childish, that idleness is unmistakably one in the same with his own.

Turning away, Adler shrugs him off his shoulders-- with less laze this time.

"We're both up," he states, clearing his throat as he lets his cigarette rest on the overflowing ashtray sitting on the bedside table. He bends over, bed creaking, sorting his own clothes from [Name]'s. "Might as well get a headstart."

[Name] sits back, arms fully leaving their place around Adler, resting them in his own lap. His hands come together, fingertips tobacco stained, much like Adler's own. He fiddles with his fingers, pressing one nail into the other, noting how it feels when it bends.

He watches with a vague, tired interest as Adler stands from the bed, tugging on his clothes. The sound of rustling fabric, a few popping joints, and the jingle of his belt is what fills the silence before [Name]'s voice takes its place.

"Work can wait for a few more hours, can't it?" His head cranes up, tilting to the side, lips parted and dry. "It's hardly past four."

The request wasn't even inherently lewd. He'd be lying if he said he wouldn't take whatever Adler gave him, but for once, he admitted to himself that he wasn't hoping for sex. There was a tenderness he searched for-- a glowing warmth as opposed to raging heat. Innocent touch without the assumed promise of something more.

Adler's brows pinch together, crows feet further crinkling as he looks back towards [Name]. He regards him with a strange look of disinterest-- one of the many faces of Adler that left [Name]'s mind running itself in circles all day long.

He wishes his could crack open Adler's head, look around inside, poke and prod. He imagines seeing tangible thoughts sliding along the ridges of his brain, telling him what Adler's thinking how he feels, what makes him happy, sad, angry.

Oblivious to the thoughts in [Name]'s head, Adler approaches the edge of the bed, smoothing out the wrinkes in his shirt. His lips press into a pensive purse as his knees reach the edge of the bed.

After a beat, he raises his hand to curn around the contors of [Name]'s jaw, giving it a tentative squeeze. The gesture lays halfway between affection and mocking, unsure of where it leans.

Adler mouth falls open, then closes once more. A soft sigh is shared between the too men.

Adler allows himself just a beat to feel the weight of the younger man's jaw resting in his palm. His fingers press into the flesh of his cheeks, letting it dip under the pressure of his firm touch.

Just as quickly, his hand falls back towards his side. Finally, he offers his version of an answer;

Then, just as quickly, his hand falls, then he finally answers.

"Get dressed. We've got a job to do."

#call of duty #call of duty black ops cold war #call of duty black ops 6 #call of duty x reader #call of duty x male reader #black ops x reader #black ops x male reader #russell adler #russell adler x reader #russell adler x male reader #x male reader #male reader

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royalsnis · 8 months ago

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Wanted to touch on this discovery because I believe more people should know about it. Especially Rusty's own friends and fans.

A few months ago, a group of Rusty haters found out that Rusty had liked, drawn, and regularly talked about mpreg artwork.

This on its own is weird, but I personally have no issues with it as it's obviously not harming anyone but it's extremely ironic coming from a woman who regularly claims bisexual/gay trans men are fujoshis or that their reasoning for being a man is rooted in yaoi.

Examples #1 and #2

This is only ONE problem, though. The other was the subject on which she decided to create said mpreg on.

Yup, you got that right. Rusty regularly created and posted her ship art of two REAL MEN, who at the time were both presumably straight and in relationships with women. If that's not delusional, then I don't know what is. (This is 2015, so right before leasebound and when Rusty apparently dove deep into the radfem landscape.)

Her name and quite similar art style were all over these artworks as well, and they were pretty popular at the time too.

There's a few additional discoveries we made that should also be shared.

This FAQ is from her blog when she was around 18-19. You might be thinking, well this was long before she supposedly "peaked" so maybe that's why both her gender and sexuality are different from today.

Sure, you may be right, but Rusty doesn't claim that.

In livestream from a few years ago, Rusty claims to have been a radfem since she was 14 as well as a lesbian, and that she was very isolated from her female peers.

Maybe, just maybe she had a few years later, dropped it and identified with the non disclosed queer label but either way, it's very odd she doesn't touch on this part of her past. Without this prior knowledge, most of her radfem/lesbian fans would assume she was always like this and never participated in the "nasty gendie things" she hated so much.

And to bring focus back to the 1D content. No matter how much Rusty likes to complain about the fetishization of gay cis men, yaoi is at the very least, fictional and of fictional men. She as a grown woman, regularly drew these two real men as gay and got each other pregnant. She's disgusting and deplorable.

I hope her fans see this and understand she's not someone to be trusted in general. I don't know how any of you could excuse what she's done.

#leasebound #terfs ew #radfems #lesbihonestart #lesbihonest art #lesbihonest.art #rustyhearts

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serapheemz · 1 month ago

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⤑ Okinawa, Interrupted

SYNOPSIS: Not even vacation is an escape from Dazai's antics. Will our pitable Kunikida ever catch a break?

CW: Missionary, Porn with Plot, Crackfic, Porn with feelings, Osamu Dazai is an asshole, Making out, bottom!Osamu Dazai, top!Kunikida Doppo, Love/ Hate relationship, Drunk sex, Anal sex, YAOI!!!!!

WORD COUNT: 4,451

Kunikida always says, “Without hard work, what grows is nothing but weeds.” And for him, at least, it’s true. Dazai, on the other hand, just brushes off his nagging, especially when he’s scolded for slacking off. But sometimes, after working so hard, growing a few weeds isn’t the worst thing in the world—particularly if you can smoke them.

It’s obvious who really needs a vacation in the agency.

Somehow, with whatever budget they managed to scrape together—because honestly, they have no idea how they even found an affordable place to stay in Okinawa of all places (Ranpo insisted on something exotic)—they ended up with at least six rooms.

Which was fine. It was honestly more than fine. At least they got to go on vacation, together, as a ‘family’.

But could anyone named Kunikida ever truly relax with a bandage-squandering machine like Dazai around? The simple answer is always ‘no.’

Don’t get Kunikida wrong—Dazai can be introspective and even genuine when he wanted to be. But God, did he love getting on the blond man’s nerves. One could call it Dazai’s passion, his true calling in this desolate life he so desperately tries to escape. And that, by the way, gave Kunikida more of a headache than he already had when he woke up in the morning to call Dazai—just to make sure he’d survived the night. He couldn’t forget his partner, after all. What good would it be to lose him?

Perhaps Kunikida didn’t despise Dazai as much as he let on. Perhaps, in his own way, he felt some tenderness for him.

T’was hot out. No, probably just humid.

Kunikida set his bags down on the hardwood floor of his room. Simple, not particularly spacious, but good enough for what they’d paid. The blue bed in the corner caught the early rays of the sun, basking in the soft glow of dawn. It was still early—barely 9 AM—which meant he had a long day ahead. Whether that was a good thing or not, he couldn’t say.

Kunikida sat down, legs crossed, his back impossibly straight as always, and pulled out his notebook.

The hundreds of little details scratched his brain in a way only a man as weird as him could understand. His eyes skimmed each note with practiced precision, ensuring his first day of vacation would be anything but perfect—while also making a mental note to make sure none of the other agency members bother the president. He deserved rest the most.

Then he read the most important rule: ‘Don’t let that idiot Dazai ruin what you have planned.’

It felt like a cursed artifact, and reading it out loud was like summoning the man himself—the actual moron.

“Yoo, Kunikida-kun!” A loud shriek blasted into Kunikida’s eardrums. He snapped his notebook closed, set it down, and got up to greet the brunette standing in his doorway—swaying on his feet like a damsel in distress. He swore he could feel his blood pressure spiking.

“Ah, there you are,” the mummy beamed. “I’ve been looking for you everywhere! Why’re you hiding? We’re heading to the beach soon~”

Kunikida sighed, pushing his glasses up with a finger. Dazai almost grimaced. Everything Kunikida did was with precision.

“I’m aware,” Kunikida muttered, clicking his tongue. “Naomi informed me. There’s no need to scream at the top of your lungs for the whole house to hear, Dazai.”

“Then get ready! You see, I’m already ready.” Dazai made a show of it, dramatically flaunting his bright blue and yellow Hawaiian shirt—one he’d gotten for God knows how little yen from some elderly lady he probably ripped off. “It must suck being so slow.”

Kunikida blinked. “Are you planning on swimming with your bandages on? They’ll get wet, you’ll have to change at least ten times a day, and you’re far too lazy for that.”

Dazai looked down at his bandaged arms, smuggly adding, “Do not fret! I might slack off at work, but I’m dilligent in the art of changing my bandages.”

Kunikida turned around to place a neat stack of clothes into the dark wooden closet, “Whatever you say.”

“See you soon, Kunikidaaaaa…” Dazai spun around on his heel and dashed off into the corridor.

And that’s how the nightmare began.

It must’ve been a fly, that’s what Kunikida thought when he saw small black things fly into various corners of the beach from his peripheral vision.

But he’s at the beach, with the agency. With Dazai. So it’s never that simple.

In his feigned delusion, he continues believing flies are somehow bigger than a thumb, flying across the beach’s landscape, just to ignore the searing hot pain of a black rock smacking into the side of his head.

“Oops!” the walking ‘don’t do this at home’ warning yelped, “Sorry, Kunikida, your big head is just soooo hard to miss. I do apologise!”

Kunikida’s hand eagerly grabbed the fallen rock and flung it back, knocking Dazai straight in between his eyes. The missed punchline fell back dramatically, flailing his hand over his forehead, like a little girl.

Another instance involved Dazai’s sudden interest in Okinawa’s supposed ‘cultural’ traditions. The word ‘cultural’ being in quotation marks because everything he said was bullshit.

He tried to convince Kunikida that the Okinawan inhabitants practiced a sacred ritual capable of curing any physical pain. Skeptical, but still intrigued, Kunikida gave in. After all, he did trust Dazai, even if that trust gave him severe migraines. And, truthfully, his back pain was becoming unbearable from the constant piles of work he had to do every damn day.

Kunikida sat silently, watching Dazai and Kyouka circle him with the same black rocks he had just thrown at him moments earlier. It wasn’t until the bandaged bastard began placing rocks on his nipples that Kunikida snapped, finally realizing he’d been fooled—somewhat. After being asked to justify his actions, Dazai merely shrugged, feigning innocence and falsely victimising himself, wailing at Kunikida that it was just how the ritual was! When, in fact, no such ritual existed.

Kunikida’s last straw was Dazai pouring wet sand in between his toes while he was sunbathing. That situation ended with Dazai diving head first into the sandy waters.

Did throwing Dazai into the ocean backfire? Of course it did. Kunikida ended up having to drag him out after he tried to drown himself, all while Dazai blabbled about the supposed benefits of immersing oneself in the Pacific Ocean.

Thankfully, the agency’s little beach trip was over. After a grueling four… no, five hours in the blistering heat, accompanied by Dazai’s buffoonery, Kunikida was spent.

His head felt like it was spinning. He couldn’t catch a break from the sight, presence, and sound of him. Dazai, Dazai, Dazai…

Dinner time! President Fukuzawa decided on grilling meat, and everyone was on board.

The day seemed to fly by. The sun was already setting. Kunikida sank into the soft cushion of his chair, resting his back. Yosano curled a strand of hair around her finger as she walked out onto the terrace, glasses in hand, smiling at Kunikida. “Have a bad first day?”

“…Not bad, just exhausting.”

She laughed, setting the glassware down. “That’s contradictory.”

She bent down to grab a bottle. Upon closer inspection, Kunikida realized it was rum—white rum. Then he noticed a few lemons, ice, and a baggie of mint leaves. She was planning to make cocktails for everyone. How thoughtful.

Yosano poured a generous amount of rum into one of the tall glasses. She cut open a lemon, squeezed it, then cut a slice from one of the halves to use as garnish. Then Yosano added… watermelon juice? Kunikida hummed—perhaps it was a Yosano-style mojito she was trying to make.

She shook and strained it, poured it into another glass, and topped it with club soda. What rigor…

Yosano pushed the glass toward Kunikida, smirking at the skeptical look in his eye. “Watermelon juice?”

“Ranpo doesn’t drink alcohol unless it tastes sweet. It’s good, try it. You need it after a long day of dealing with Dazai’s bullshit.”

There goes his name again. Kunikida went a whole minute without thinking of Dazai. New record.

His loud thoughts were drowned out by the pleasantly refreshing drink, which he almost gulped down instantly, eliciting a surprised hum from Yosano before she snickered and went off to find Ranpo, proudly showcasing the new drink she supposedly invented.

The garden was filled with chatter. The motion around him calmed him. One moment of unity with oneself—

—Until a familiar figure plopped down in front of him, smirking.

“Oiii, Kunikida-kuuuun! Fancy seeing you here.” Dazai sat across from him.

Well, at least he didn’t sit beside him. That would’ve been worse.

“Hello, Dazai.”

Perhaps it was the drink he was sipping on, but Dazai’s voice didn’t annoy him much anymore.

And he hadn’t noticed that the rest of the agency had already sat down and begun eating.

And he couldn’t quite tell what Dazai was hinting at when his foot brushed against Kunikida’s leg.

He hadn’t even noticed Dazai had started drinking with him.

Actions Kunikida would usually make a snappy comeback to suddenly blurred the line between bothersome and enjoyable—bittersweet.

How weird. Dazai never managed to do that. In fact, nobody had. What was he even thinking? He couldn’t tell whether the smirk on Dazai’s drunken lips was the asshole-ish one he usually had or something more seductive.

Seductive. Dazai was seductive.

Yes, he was quite handsome. He admitted it himself once.

Perchance, Kunikida wasn’t wasted. Not yet, at least. He rolled his eyes, nudging Dazai’s elbow.

The brunette hummed, his long lashes fluttering as he blinked at his partner, then looked away, trying to pull his attention from the wry smile forming on his lips.

He wasn’t sure if Kunikida’s cheeks were so red from the alcohol or his ministrations. What if his own face betrayed his thoughts?

“Did Kunikida-kun have a nice day at the beach today?”

“I’m finally relaxing, Dazai, don’t spoil my mood.”

Dazai’s arm wrapped around his shoulders, pulling him closer. “Oh, maaaaan! You’re no fun, Kunikida! I bet if you loosened up a bit, you’d have lots of fun,” he teased.

“The reason I’m not having fun is because of your constant presence.”

Dazai gasped in faux-awe, whining as he dramatically flipped his hair. “Must you be so cruel?! I have done nothing but indulge you in my fun endeavors! You’re the ungrateful one, Kunikida! Pu, pu, pu.”

Kunikida pinched Dazai’s ear, dragging him close in a way that would make any sober onlooker question their relationship status. Dazai wailed happily, giggling as Kunikida let go and shoved his face away.

“I’ve had enough of you, Dazai.” He abruptly stood up, slurring his words, and proceeded to storm inside like a toddler throwing a tantrum. It was an unusual sight for the agency’s ensemble. They turned their heads to Kunikida, who waved goodbye. “Goodnight, everyone. Have a great rest of your nights... I am heading to—sleep,” he murmured.

Dazai blinked. Everyone looked toward him.

“Is he drunk already?” Yosano tilted her head, amused, as she poured herself another glass of red wine.

“Yup.” Dazai answered.

“I take it this is your doing, Dazai?” Fukuzawa raised an eyebrow.

“No. Yosano poured him the drink,” he pointed to the dark-haired woman. She confirmed with a quick nod before responding.

“But you pissed him off.”

Dazai giggled, waving his hands comically before getting up. “It’s fineeee… I’ll go calm him down!” He gave them a thumbs-up before rushing inside.

A moment of silence followed.

“He’s drunk, too,” Ranpo observed.

“Yeah,” Yosano added.

—

Dazai, Dazai, Dazai…

Kunikida’s head was bursting with warmth. It felt like one of his usual headaches, but softer, more diffuse—less sharp and intense.

He leaned against his closet and pushed his bangs out of his face. His eyes rolled towards the shadowy figure standing in his doorway, quietly observing him before making himself known. His footsteps so heavy they held some sort of meaning that Kunikida couldn’t figure out right now—not in this state.

Dazai didn’t seem very sober either.

His arms snaked around his waist pulling him off the closet, gently nudging him further into the room.

“Why’d ya run off on me like that, Kunikida? I thought you enjoyed my company…” he pouted, tracing his finger against the taller man’s arm.

Dazai frowned at the lack of a reaction. Usually, when teased through physical means, Kunikida reacted brashly, often times resorting to slapping, choking, punching and throwing Dazai over his shoulder with a strength he didn’t know his co-worker possessed.

“I thought I told you to buzz off. I’ve had enough of your tomfoolery.”

“‘Buzz off’?” Dazai laughed, “What’re we? Twelve? If so, I’m not gonna! If you really wanted me to buzz off, you’d have long dragged me out yourself.”

Kunikida let out a long, exasperated sigh. The heat in his head spread into a pink flush on his cheeks. It must be the alcohol. No way this idiot’s hands fondling him so vulgarly made his mind and heart teeter like this—on the brink of something he couldn’t quite recognise, something he understood, perhaps, but refused to admit to.

Dazai was right, in any case. Why was he hesitating? Why wouldn’t he just take matters into his own hands like he always did?

Two questions he wouldn’t ever have the chance to answer, because Dazai’s hand already wandered down to the pockets of his neon colored swimming trunks he hadn’t bothered to change out of. It slipped right in, teasingly daubing above the thinly clothed area.

“May I apologize for today? I can make it up to you.” he leaned into his ear, brushing the blond strands aside, “You’re already shaking, either way. I know you’ll get off by yourself the second I leave, anyway.”

He tensed, but remained unmoving. Dazai continued, “I know you want this. Denying it is useless. Your muscles are tense, your face is red and you’re hard… I can feel it through your shorts. Take that stick out of your ass, and have fun for once—I beg of you, Kunikida.”

Dazai’s hand ran along the curvature of Kunikida’s neck, pressing his calloused thumb to the pulse beneath his skin. For a moment, there was nothing but the faintest brush of contact, and the world stilled.

The brunette pushed himself off Kunikida, circling around him with a finger tracing the sharp line of his jaw before flopping down onto the mattress, less soft than he’d expected. He crossed one leg over the other, peering up between his messy bangs, a few strands clinging to his forehead, damp with the faint sheen of sweat that kissed his skin.

“So?—”

“You’re… out of your mind, Dazai.” Kunikida raised his hand, trying to shake it dismissively, but Dazai caught his wrist, itching him closer to the bed, pulling him in.

“Don’t you want this?”

“Sleeping with your co-workers is h—highly unprofessional—”

“But you want this?”

“Yes-! No… I mean… I guess so, but not really—”

“Did I make the great Kunikida stutter? How cute.” he added, swiftly bringing Kunikida’s hand to his face, pressing his cheek into it.

It was comforting. Kunikida’s hands were bigger than his, but his palms weren’t nearly as weathered—despite all the work he did daily, despite the countless missions he’d go on that Dazai would pass up, deeming them far too simple for ‘a mind as great as his own.’

“I want a yes or no. If you say no, I’m outta here as fast as I came in—”

“Yes.”

Dazai let out a breath he didn’t know he was holding, his impatient leer now replaced by a smug smile. His hand reached out to craddle Kunikida’s cheek, caressing his temples with his thumb.

“Have you ever done this?”

“Sex? I think that’s none of your concern…”

Dazai smiled.

“I just wanted to ask if you had any hard no’s I had to beware of… So rude, Kunikida-kun…” he sighed, playfully pushing the blond hair tickling his ears back.

He leaned into the mattress, further pulling Kunikida in by both his face and the blue collar of his blouse. He carefully observed the look on his partner’s face—from how concentrated he was to the sweat dribbling down his forehead. He was so close. His lips ghosted his own, and they were parted, taking in shallow breaths he subconsciously held.

What a nervous wreck—even when he’s drunk.

Dazai leaned in, pressing a light, airy peck to Kunikida’s lips. The spark in Kunikida’s eyes flickered, a quiet reaction before Dazai pulled back. Then, without missing a beat, he kissed him again, pressing into it with more meaning. Then another followed, his teeth grazing Kunikida’s bottom lip, just enough to make him gasp. And all the while, he could feel the hard press of Kunikida’s erection against his pelvis as their lips met again.

Kunikida greedily gripped Dazai's legs, which were wrapped tightly around his waist, pulling him in, desperately. He spread them wider, making room for himself to move. He pushed his hand against his face, muffling his desperate whines as he leaned into his neck, craning it to press his face into it.

Dazai smelled intoxicating—in an unusual way. His cologne mingled with his sweat and the sea salt that clung to his skin, remnants of the ocean dive Kunikida forced him to take earlier that day.

Kunikida dug his fingers into Dazai’s hair, inhaling sharply, his scent invading his senses. He subconsciously rocked his hips into Dazai’s, whining, lips grazing his bandaged neck—almost like he was too scared to continue his caress.

“Keep going…” the other man groaned, desperately clutching onto Kunikida’s hips.

It was only then that a bell rang in his mind—Kunikida had finally, impossibly, managed to render Dazai vulnerable. An event that would probably never take place ever again.

It was such a rush of confidence, it made him press his lips into Dazai’s neck, reaching his hand up so he could pathetically scratch at the bandages covering the area—searching for the perfect spot to kiss.

Dazai’s hand wrapped around his, squeezing it gently between his bony fingers. He gazed up at Kunikida through half-lidded eyes, his skin so hot to the touch. It must’ve been the alcohol. Kunikida hummed, his voice soft, "I’m sorry. Is that a no-go?

Dazai didn’t answer, only slowly blinking and getting up further to cup his cheeks with his palms, smooching him again. Kunikida could only assume Dazai didn’t want the bandages to come off, not in any case.

In an attempt to initiate something deeper, Dazai’s hand fumbled toward Kunikida’s shorts, his fingers tugging at the silly strings in a needy, slightly uncoordinated, playful frenzy. He peppered smooches down to Kunikida’s jawline and neck, sucking a dark hickey into his skin before pulling back to marvel at his masterpiece. If they were sober, they might’ve actually cared. Especially Kunikida. He was the master of professionalism—how could he possibly show up in a group setting with love bites on his neck? That would give people the wrong impression.

But the way he looked at Dazai, as if he were a beautiful muse waiting to be ravished, told an entirely different story.

“I want it. C’moooon, Kunikida-kuuunn… pleaaase?” he whined, dragging out the words impatiently.

Kunikida groaned, furrowing his eyebrows, and reached to unbutton Dazai’s shorts, pulling them down testily. His hand palmed the wet patch that marked Dazai’s growing erection, leaning in to push his thumb in his mouth to quiet his bold mewls.

He hauled his boxers down and grasped Dazai’s dick, wrapping his index finger and thumb around his aching shaft, hiking his legs up and pressing him further up the mattress to hush him up.

Dazai’s hip rocked against nothing, trying to meet Kunikida’s as he tried to push his own shorts off, pressing his cock against Dazai’s, inching closer to his ear to kiss it. He smirked, tracing his finger along Kunikida’s chest, eyeing his dick, “So clean~ I should’ve known you like to trim yourself.” he slurred.

Kunikida rolled his eyes.

Dazai was so kissable. He never even realised it.

Everything about him was perfect. The shape of his face, his sharp jawline, the arch of his nose, and even his arms—bandaged though they were—brought a sense of warmth through him. His brown hair and the way his bangs got in his eyes sometimes, the way it framed his face made him seem like he was one of the prettiest people Kunikida had ever met.

Or maybe it was the alcohol talking. He wouldn’t know till morning, either way.

“Fill me up, c’mon, c’mon…” he murmured, arching his back just to feel him closer.

Kunikida didn’t argue. Why would he?

He pressed the tip of his cock against Dazai’s ass. Dazai enveloped him using his arm, sneaking his fingers into his blond locks, pressing his lips into Kunikida’s messily, scrunching his face as Kunikida slowly pushed his tip inside. No preparation, no lube. Dazai would regret skipping foreplay almost entirely in the morning. Now was no time to think, though.

He nearly bottomed out, biting down onto his lip and cursing quietly, finding Dazai’s gaze again.

“Oh—fuck…” he moaned, Dazai’s tight walls squeezing impossibly tight around him.

“That… good?” Dazai asked, biting back a groan as Kunikida rolled his hips experimentally.

“…Yes, it’s amazing…”

“Keep going, then.”

And Kunikida did.

The smack of his hips against Dazai’s ass was so loud, he was physically taken aback. It sounded so needy, so desperate for release, to feel him, to hear him.

To be engulfed in his embrace—because Dazai’s arms hewed so tightly around the arc of Kunikida’s neck, and his fingers buried themselves so deeply within the strands of his hair that it felt like Dazai was melting into him. He pressed hot, open-mouthed kisses and smooches to Kunikida’s adam’s apple, and shook every time his hips met the other’s.

It was such a shame Dazai’s moans were so loud—Kunikida wished he didn’t have to cover his mouth, to stifle the desperate cries, because Dazai’s voice was just so pretty. Befitting a man like him.

“Quiet down…” he begged.

“Why? Are you embarrassed? Scared—ngh—someone might hear?” Dazai uttered between moans.

Kunikida pressed his nose into Dazai’s cheek, nuzzling the side of his face so lightly, it felt like his tender caress brought him closer.

Closer.

His hand fell from his hair onto Kunikida’s arm. His muscles tensed and relaxed under his touch, repeatedly, and he shifted it to easily grab onto his shoulders, gripping with strength Kunikida had no idea Dazai even had. He groaned into his ear, thrusting so deep that Dazai’s ears rang and his vision flashed white for just a split second.

“Mnh… nghah, Kunikida-kun…” he pathetically gasped. It struck Kunikida in the heart, hearing Dazai’s yelps of pleasure. His eyes shut tightly as he took a hold of his cock, slowly stroking, pressing his thumb against the tip, and when Dazai’s back arched, Kunikida pressed the softest of kisses to his neck. “No, I’m close… I’m so close… not yet, not yet…” he whimpered, pressing his curled up fists against Kunikida’s chest, but he made no effort to try to push him away, instead using his legs to pull him further in.

“No matter…” he huffed, “You’ll finish either way…”

Kunikida searched for any sign of discomfort in Dazai’s glossy eyes, and found none. Instead met with his partner’s mouth agape, a sliver of drool trickling down his chin as he tried to look Kunikida in the eye.

The stimulation Kunikida’s hand offered Dazai brought him so impossibly close to the edge, he couldn’t tell if he was teetering on it or had already finished—his mind left a foggy mess. He couldn’t focus on anything besides Kunkida and how he fucked him so arduously yet so gently.

Dazai’s hips lifted off the mattress, and he brought Kunikida’s hand to his mouth in an attempt to conceal the humiliating sounds escaping him. His entire body burned.

“…’m gonna—” he gasped, “—so close…”

“C’mon…” Kunikida breathed, his fingers curling around Dazai’s wrists as he pressed them firmly against the bed, pinning them down with his entire body weight.

The overwhelming sensation of Dazai’s impending climax crested, a wave of pleasure breaking over him in an instant of release. His eyes fluttered shut, rolling back as his hands strained against Kunikida’s grip, futilely trying to break free. Kunikida fucked him through his orgasm, the feeling of his weight crushing him igniting sparks of heat across Dazai’s skin. Dazai gasped, his breath sharp and shallow, as white streaks of fluid painted an image so unforgettable on his stomach—it spoke a thousand words to Kunikida, the rawness of it leaving him breathless. The sight was so alluring, so intimate, that it had Kunikida doubled over, thrusting one last time, finishing deep inside, and collapsing on top of the brunette, hand still holding his wrists firmly in place.

Silence.

One could call it peace. But no peace exists when Dazai’s around. No matter how intimate the moment, he always finds a way to ruin it."

“Oh, you've filled me, Kunikida-kun!” Dazai giggled, breaking free from Kunikida’s grasp, his hand flailing drunkenly in his face.

“Not now, Dazai,” Kunikida groaned, wiping a hand over his face.

Dazai pressed his fingers into Kunikida’s cheek, smiling like a fool at the expression on his face.

Kunikida couldn't help but notice how tired Dazai looked, still handsome in his exhaustion. He wasn’t so sure anymore if alcohol was the sole culprit for his sudden attraction. Perhaps he’d always liked Dazai, but was too tired of his antics to realise it.

He brushed the hair from Dazai’s forehead, the strands sticking to his damp skin.

The air in the room felt heavy, thick with the scent of sweat and Kunikida’s cologne. They could barely breathe in it.

Kunikida reluctantly pulled out, cleaning himself up before trudging to the balcony. He swung the door open, letting the cool breeze wash over him. His limbs felt heavy, and his eyelids ached with fatigue.

“Pull your pants up, Dazai. I opened the window…” But when he looked back, Dazai had passed out, already snoring softly on the bed, his limbs sprawled out comically.

Kunikida sighed, deciding it wasn’t worth getting worked up over. He slipped into bed beside Dazai, closing his eyes with a quiet, resigned breath. He'd deal with it tomorrow.

#bsd smut #bsd #kunizai #kunikida bsd #kunikida doppo #osamu dazai #bsd dazai #bungo stray dogs smut #bungo stray dogs #bsd manga #bsd anime

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olderthannetfic · 2 years ago

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i was listening to the fanficmaverick podcast episode you did on fanfiction history, in which you mentioned (~55 min in) that you were one of the main people writing the terms of service for AO3 and bringing up the types of "would this be allowed" test cases, that these were not "oh it's a slightly problematic kink" but "violent snuff porn of gillian anderson, not scully, but gillian anderson" — and that you all eventually landed on "kinda gross, but legal in the US, and therefore would host." question: was this the most contentious case? any other memorable/notable test cases, or other interesting discussions you can remember?

i'd also love to hear more about how the major archive warnings were decided on — on what basis were these chosen? which others were considered? — if you happen to know!

sincerest thank you for all the work you've done for fandom and the preservation of fandom history. ❤️ seriously, such a feat, and so interesting!

I think even then my personal level of wallowing in annoying wank or looking at horrifying fic was vastly higher than everyone else's, so this was pretty much the example we looked at.

Though, if you want to laugh, astolat's original post is still up on LJ with the comments, and there were totally people going "I'd be interested in this new archive project, but not if it includes RPF!" or "Not if it includes any underage fic at all!" etc.

On usenet in the 90s, there was somebody or somebodies who were reaaaaally into that specific type of snuff story. I remember noticing how many of them involved not only hangings but very specific imagery of one high heel falling off. I was 13, so I really couldn't tell you if it was one dude with a specific fetish or genuinely super widespread. But it made an impression.

The alt.sex.stories hierarchy was a wild time.

Anyway, in practice, badwrong RPF of female celebs that sounds like it's aimed at straight dudes ends up on fetish sites for whatever the fetish is, not on fic archives for the most part, but I thought it was a useful example because it was so far into actually offensive to AO3y types. We're not talking the weaksauce shit people are always asking me about on here like "Oooh, what if someone posted [bog standard slash trope] to AO3?" as though it's a gotcha.

Man... were there other test cases? I'm trying to remember. This was all in like 2008, and of course, I didn't keep internal documents when I left OTW. Not that half of this was stuff I'd have had documented on my computer anyway.

My memory is that the general shape of the content policy had been decided by the founding Board before Content Policy started up. I don't think we were actually making the ruling on RPF ourselves.

I'm pretty sure most of what we were up to was looking at wank and trying to determine how to head off shitty behavior with the ToS. Trying to define harassment is a mega pain in the ass, let me tell you.

One major internal wank there was was deciding whether to allow Original Work. I was the one who'd been in anime fandom, and I was very used to archives that have an original section, often for the "original slash" and "original yaoi" that had nowhere else to go at the time. (These days, you'd just become a "m/m romance" author, as I in fact have.) Fanfiction.net had spun off its original years ago at that point, but a lot of the non-English archives and a lot of the archives in other parts of English-speaking fandom found fannish-but-original to be a normal thing.

I am a grudgy bitch, and I am still not over how much pushback I got on this.

AO3 went live with a ban on original work, but the policy never ended up being heavily enforced. We waited to see what would happen with posting, and it was predictably that people from those backgrounds outside of US Media Fandom posted some original without even thinking it might be banned, but they didn't post so much it overwhelmed the archive.

The big fears had been that #1 people would flood AO3 and drown out the fic. This was predicated on the idiotic notion that original = inherently not fannish, so there's no dividing line. In reality, the people who were used to posting original to fic archives had an internal sense of what belongs and what doesn't. Fear #2 was that people would try to post chapter 1 of a commercial story and then go "See here to buy the rest". Little did we know that this would soon be a problem with fucking fan fiction itself. (Also, commercial spam was always against the rules and needed no extra anti-original work rule.)

People didn't just disagree with me: they looked at me blankly.

Pretty sure I vented about this on that podcast too though. Anyway, most of the shit people find contentious now was already decided before we started writing the ToS, I think... though I don't really remember clearly. We were more looking to plug up holes in the rules that nitpicking trolls could use to harass.

The kinds of things we were deciding were often like the policy that AO3 doesn't necessarily tell you if someone reported you. If they need info, they'll contact you, and if they decide you broke the ToS, you'll hear about it, but obviously bogus reports don't get passed on. This is to remove the temptation to use the team as a proxy to harass a target. An official e-mail, even if it's "You're fine, actually", can be disturbing.

Re the warnings themselves, I know I'd done a survey of what archives were out there at the time and had come up with a list of a few dozen. This was early on in OTW's development process, not just for Content Policy. You can still find the list somewhere on that LJ group. Anyway, for the ToS writing, we looked at the commonplace warnings from archives past, which were basically character death, character death, and also character death.

It always cracks me up when people are like "Um, rape makes sense, but how dare they downplay these other bad things with a character death warning?" Old fandom places were full of unwarned for rape, but woe betide the person who posted surprise character death of a main ship!

We needed an under-18 warning because we had a lot of Australian fans who were like "Dude, my government is a bitch, and I cannot use this archive at all if I can't filter that out". Past archives had mostly just banned it entirely or been full of death eaters raping teenage Harry Potter characters with nary an underage warning in sight.

I don't remember why we picked the violence one. It really wasn't common, but maybe we wanted to make a philosophical point that sex doesn't have more cooties than violence.

CNTW was a compromise with older fandom standards where people objected to literally any warnings existing. A lot of the really oldschool warnings debates aren't about which ones you should have but about whether you should have them at all.

I think people around here miss how non-universal warnings are and how many other communities and spaces even today don't think you need all that.

I don't recall if we seriously considered any specific others. I don't think we had a big list, then ruled them out. It's more like we accreted a few must-haves as we went along. We probably looked at the metadata for the eFiction archives that actually had ticky boxes for search (as opposed to the very low-metadata norm on many archives). But a lot of those filters would have been fandom-specific or redundant or hella vague.

One thing to keep in mind is that this was an Era of Archives, so there were fucktons of examples to look at, though only a few flavors of example since a bunch used eFiction or otherwise copied each other's design. It was possible to make some judgements about past norms on archives, not just go "Are we copying FFN or not?" A lot of fans now see fic hosting as the big three or see AO3 as the only option, but we were used to having many archives with many designs.

I know we wanted a short and manageable list of warnings, and we wanted unambiguous things that could be effectively enforced. If I'm populating my hard-coded 90s website with other people's fics, I can go through each for dubcon before I post it (not that you'd ever have warned for dubcon in the 90s). On a big fic archive, making judgement calls on vague ass categories like dubcon is a nightmare.

We did do some focus groups where other interested fans came in and critiqued our work. I can't recall how much was about our ToS wording and how much was about the actual policies. But we did workshop this shit extensively with people who were around at the time. I think many of the whiners now assume it wasn't enough of a community effort (since we didn't decide things they like). But actually, a bunch of people weighed in. Maybe elf remembers what we actually asked them. I think she was in a focus group.

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damnfandomproblems · 3 months ago

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5844

This may not be what op was trying to talk about but this reminds me of something weird I’ve seen on Twitter, Tumblr, and Tik Tok(the Trifecta, if you will) where fandom spaces and creators will treat m/m and w/w ships and headcanons as “automatically superior” in every way to m/w stuff.

And if you want to ship a man and a woman together then the ship HAS to be extremely well founded in canon or clever in order to justify liking it, when m/m and w/w stuff doesn’t need to be justified or held to this higher standard in the same way.

Specifically, I’m talking about stuff like “not even yuri can save this” or “hetero ship so good it’s basically yaoi” etc. which I know are just jokes and are ultimately harmless but still rub me the wrong way since I’ve seen some people be actually serious about this kind of thing and truly believe it.

To be clear, I’m not trying to say that these people are heterophobic or smth, just that they’re turning “being gay” into this special little trait they can apply to characters that immediately makes their interpretation head and shoulders above anyone else’s who is bi or, god forbid, implicitly straight.

It reminds me of those people who pretended to have certain disabilities like Tourette’s or DID cause they thought being mentally ill or disabled was some cool trait they could pretend to be to make themselves more unique and not just a thing some people have and struggle with. Except it’s queer people doing it to themselves.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

#fandom problem 5844 #response to previous problem #mod sf

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somepsychopomp · 1 year ago

Text

Winter's Night Pt. 2

AKA even more frosty old man yaoi

This is a continuation of my last simoncest/winterkov piece, found here. I just had to write a scene of the morning after, I just had to.

((You can also now find this story as a fic on Ao3 here.))

Excerpt:

“Did you sleep well?” a voice asked.

Simon startled and glanced to his other side. The Winter King propped himself up on his elbows, his chest as bare as Simon’s. His hair hung in a curtain around his face, his locks still silky and straight. He smiled in a lazy way, as if they had all the time in the world.

“My goodness,” Winter King said, “You are an early riser. Though I thought you might be, what with you and I being the same.”

Word count: 1,500

+++

Before Simon even opened his eyes, he thought he was somehow sleeping on a cloud. Something soft and welcoming.

As a trickle of pale, watery light fell across his eyes, rousing him from his slumber, he began to reassemble the pieces of the night before.

A piano, a kiss, the breath stolen from his lungs…

He opened his eyes. A tall, domed ceiling welcomed him, glimmering with the greens and violets of an aurora borealis. Exquisite, yet haunting.

He turned his head to the side. Without his glasses, he could only make out vague shapes at a distance. He saw what looked like a set of armchairs with a table between them. Some bookshelves or tapestries along the walls.

Simon stretched his arms out to either side and found himself enveloped by plush blankets and the softest bed he’d ever slept in. It was far nicer than the mattress in his exhibit home in the human city, and infinitely more luxurious than anything he slept on during the aftermath of an actual apocalypse.

He sat up slowly, ignoring the way his spine quietly popped. His old bones didn’t hurt as much as they usually did, much to his surprise.

As he stretched out his back, the blankets fell away to reveal his bare chest.

Simon stared blankly at himself. It wasn’t that he was numb, but he hardly even shivered as his skin met the cold air. He instead noted just how many blankets were heaped on the bed. He counted three duvets topped with a silky quilt, making quite the heavy mass now that he considered it.

Actually… he did feel something. A mild throbbing on the side of his neck. Glancing to the side, Simon spotted a round mirror resting on the nightstand.

He touched the darkened bruises scattered across the side of his neck, trailing down his throat and stopping at his chest. He felt his face flush with heat.

Dear God, someone as old as him with hickies?

It was a sight he couldn’t reconcile. Simon buried his fists in the plush bedding, fighting the surging feeling of lightheadedness overtaking him.

He had no idea what to make of his spiking heart rate, either. Nor the sinking feeling in his stomach.

“Did you sleep well?” a voice asked.

“My goodness,” Winter King said, “You are an early riser. Though I thought you might be, what with you and I being the same.”

We’re not- Simon thought, then stopped himself. They were the same. They carried the same origins and many of the same memories. It was just a little challenging to think of them as alike, even now.

Especially now.

The Winter King stretched his arms over his head, noting the gentle light that filtered through the tall, indigo curtains. They were the only thing hiding Simon from the world beyond, one of the Winter King’s walls being made entirely of windows.

Simon rubbed his upper arms, not due to the cold but just to feel something grounding.

He was beginning to realize he was entirely naked beneath the blankets. That the previous night was not some hazy hallucination.

And that he had, in fact, been carried into the Winter King’s chambers by the other Simon himself. And he simply said nothing as he was laid beneath the covers, wanting only to sleep.

To run away from the storm that’d been brewing inside him, a dizzying mesh of regret and longing. And maybe a little shame, too.

He’d let the Winter King take from him and still wanted more. After all, his heart might’ve belonged to Betty, but could Simon remember ever feeling as cherished as he was last night?

When could he remember feeling so wanted?

Winter King said, “I do hope you slept well. I had some extra blankets brought in to keep you warm. Though I found it a bit too stuffy myself, I take the utmost care when it comes to my guests.”

He smiled at Simon, flipping his hair over his shoulder. “And I especially pride myself on fair treatment of those that come to bed with me.”

He leaned over and cupped Simon’s face, bringing them closer. Simon felt the ghost of a cold breath before a kiss was placed on his cheek. How quaint.

“I-” he said.

I think I made a mistake.

“Yes?” Winter King asked, his thumb tracing Simon’s cheek.

“I…” he cleared his throat, “I did sleep well. Thank you, for everything.”

“Ah!” Winter King said, beaming. “I’m so glad. You deserve only the best, my Simon.”

My Simon.

So intimate when they met only two days ago.

The Winter King pulled away, easing out of bed and wandering over to a set of double doors. Simon stared at the smooth expanse of his bare back, that dewy, pale blue skin. Winter King really must’ve been quite warm under all these covers, but hadn’t even kicked them off on his side. He’d allowed as much warmth to be trapped under them as possible for Simon’s sake.

As the Winter King’s figure became blurred at the edges, Simon remembered once more that he was without his glasses. He found them on the nightstand and fumbled to put them on. The world came into clarity.

Odd, there was a fireplace across from the bed. It, too, looked like it was made of ice. Simon doubted it was for anything beyond decoration, given its spotless interior and lack of firewood within. But it was a lovely fixture, the mantle carved with elegant curves.

The sound of a door opening caught his attention. The Winter King had vanished into the depths of a walk-in closet and emerged a short while later with several sets of clothes draped over his arm. He said, “Here, I already know what I’ll be wearing today. But why don’t you try this on?”

He draped one of the garments across the back of an armchair for Simon to inspect. It was a long overcoat, the hems, collar, and pockets embroidered with countless silver snowflakes. The buttons also looked like they were made of polished silver.

“You’re too generous,” Simon said. A part of him longed for the clothes he wore the previous day, the simple suit tailored for him by the castle tailors.

“Nonsense! Consider it a gift,” Winter King said. He smiled so fondly, practically glowing in the morning light.

And then he did something that surprised Simon.

He set aside his other clothes, approached Simon, and bent down so they were eye to eye, hardly any space between them. The Winter King tilted his head to the side and asked, “Do you want to know why I feel the way I do about you?”

And Simon almost choked on his own breath. He leaned back without thinking, as if afraid of the answer.

Unbother by his response, the Winter King said, “I saw you and was reminded of myself. Looking at you for the first time was like looking at a smaller, lost version of me. I saw you and, well… I wanted you.”

Winter King sat on the bed, edging closer to Simon, “I wanted to find out why you were so different from me. Forgive me, but I wanted to study you.”

He placed a hand on Simon’s shoulder.

Without putting up any resistance, Simon crumbled and fell, hair splayed out as his back met the bed. The Winter King hovered over him.

“I used to be so sure of everything in my world and my place in it,” he said. And he leaned closer before pressing another kiss to Simon’s collarbone. “But you, my Simon, filled me with curiosity once more.”

He raised his head and Simon was almost certain Winter King would be able to hear his thundering heart.

He couldn’t speak, couldn’t think. Simon’s whole body grew taut despite the inviting warmth of the bed beneath him.

Winter King said, “Forgive me, but as soon as I saw you, I knew I had to have you, my dearest Simon.”

A cold hand laced its fingers with Simon’s own.

“The question is, will you have me in turn?”

And as terrified as he was, Simon still felt the most damnable spark beneath his skin. He felt the cold hand holding his own and once again found himself starving for the familiar feeling of ice and snow.

“Please…” Simon said, for he had no idea what else to say.

Please what?

But the matter was decided for him. That cold hand gripped his own tightly. The Winter King gasped softly, his fond smile turning into a ravenous expression, before he slammed his lips into Simon’s own.

#fionna and cake #simon petrikov #the winter king #simoncest #winterkov

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