#fanny defense squad

[bethanydelleman]

Would you do a poll on worst Jane Austen heroine? I know most people hate Emma, but for me Marriane is the worst Austen heroine. EVERYONE indulged her till the end, and I do not see her temperament improving in the end. It's just that she ultimately fell in love with a rich guy, so going forward no one would provide any resistance to her ideologies and vanities and indulgences. I wish Elinor and Edward would transfer to some other clergy. Eh, but I digress.

So no, I will not make or reblog that poll. Mostly because I find it boring. I know the answer. The least liked heroines are Emma Woodhouse, Fanny Price, and Marianne Dashwood. People also dislike Catherine Morland for being "stupid" though her book is read less so she'll be in the middle. The most admired heroines are Elizabeth Bennet, Anne Elliot, Jane Bennet, and Elinor Dashwood.

But also, this here is a Emma, Marianne, Catherine, and Fanny defense blog. And, more importantly, Elinor loves Marianne. The reconciliation between the two sisters is a beautiful part of Sense & Sensibility! They love living beside each other. And Marianne is going to keep maturing, she's only seventeen when we have her last quoted speech.

Also, this sounds like a much more mature and less selfish Marianne, "Marianne found her own happiness in forming his." The ending of Sense & Sensibility is beautiful in that the sisters find their love of each other:

Between Barton and Delaford, there was that constant communication which strong family affection would naturally dictate; and among the merits and the happiness of Elinor and Marianne, let it not be ranked as the least considerable, that though sisters, and living almost within sight of each other, they could live without disagreement between themselves, or producing coolness between their husbands.

As for indulging her, Mrs. Jennings makes fun of Marianne's behaviour, Elinor occasionally calls her out on it, and if Mrs. Dashwood doesn't it's because they are very similar people and their father/husband died like 6 months ago. If Marianne is indulged, it's because she is young and pretty harmless. She doesn't usually insult people to their face, she just stays silent if she disagrees with them or dislikes them. And honestly, Elinor is a saint for not punching her brother and/or SIL in their stupid faces.

I also will not make or reblog polls of favourite Austen novel (P&P wins, MP loses, yay...), favourite hero (it's always Darcy), least favouite hero (Edward or Edmund), or least favourite pairing (either E&F because of the first cousin thing or one of the big age gaps, because of age gap). Not only is it completely predictable, it's not even fun to discuss.

[lajeunefilleenfeu]

People want to be mean to Fanny about the Pepper Jelly, but if Sneed had been LISTENING when she was *talking to him*, he would have heard her mention that the recipe might have been for *perpermint* jelly, and he would HAVE KNOWN to take a smaller bite.

So really I blame misogyny.

[bethanydelleman]

I could not agree more! Can we please have an adaptation that retains her true character and wasn't made 40 years ago?

Fanny is a heroine as much as Elizabeth or Elinor ❤️

I have started obsessing over Mansfield Park again. How I love this book, and how I adore the character of Fanny Price. I can't understand people who call her boring, dull or even stupid (I see lots of these comments in discussions online), and I think it's terribly intolerant to love only loud, witty and bright character like Emma or Lizzie. Fanny deserves being loved, she deserves her own story, and she most certainly deserves her happily ever after 🙏🏻❤️

[fanny-price-defense-squad]

“I think he’s very strange. He says that nobody could like the heroine of Mansfield Park? I like her!”

LITERALLY ME. I need to watch this movie immediately.

[whenthegoldrays]

Yeah not forgiving Mansfield Park (1999) for saying “let’s “““make””” Fanny likable by giving her a more lively personality” and then actually making her less likable by making her fickle and coy in all the wrong places

[fannypricedidnothingwrong]

I have some, shall we say… FEELINGS about all the unearned hate and vitriol people love to heap onto Fanny Price. I’m going to properly get into it when I have time to do it justice, but for now, let’s just say Mansfield Park is my problematic fave and Fanny is not the problem here and no I will not take any notes on that particular point.

[anghraine]

fanny-price-defense-squad replied to this post:

@anghraine who was it???

Oh!! I was so foggy when I posted the "which Austen character mainly contributed to my dissertation" poll that I actually completely forgot it existed. The people actually did vote, if barely, for the right choice—Mary Crawford!

(Darcy was right behind her in the poll but barely mentioned in the dissertation, while Henry Crawford—who only got 1.5% of the vote—also figured pretty significantly.)

Now I'm looking at other results of my own polls over the last year, as well:

The "Why is Elrohir's name in Gondorian rather than Elvish Sindarin" poll result: a strong vote for "actually it's Númenórean Sindarin" (the assumption I've always made myself, but it was interesting to think about other possibilities, since Tolkien never explained it).

The "Pick a fave from my Tolkien faves from each major text" poll result: Faramir narrowly beat out Gandalf with everyone else far behind (the closest was Lúthien).

The "pick a fave from my faves from five fandoms" poll result: Faramir again, closely beating out Luke Skywalker and Fitzwilliam Darcy (Moiraine and Gwen Thackeray never had a chance).

The "best dead guy from my dissertation" poll result: Jonathan Swift just squeaked past Olaudah Equiano!

The two women's wrongs polls: the first poll result was Clytemnestra, the second Azula.

The "what's your headcanon for the unexplained reasons the Stewards were not in the line of succession despite being descendants of Anárion" poll: by a huge margin, actually, the people chose "they were formally removed from the succession in exchange for the powers of the Stewardship."

The "pick your favorite video game/series" poll result: a very unsurprising and easy win for the Mass Effect trilogy (with BG3 the only thing even remotely near).

The "why do those of you who also like fics about ostensibly cis male characters in canon being genderbent to women" poll result: it's interesting to imagine how the character and plot would be affected, slightly beating out the option for "I neither like nor dislike the fics as a genre, I just like the good ones."

The "vote between my top Spotify Wrapped songs" poll results: "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac slightly beat out Florence + The Machine's "King" and Queen's "Who Wants to Live Forever" (both exactly tied in close second place).

The "what is the best non-canon FemShep pairing" poll result: Shepard/Jack won pretty handily!

The "which of my ~controversial headcanons do you like best" poll result: Elizabeth and Darcy have separate bedrooms and this is good for their marriage.

The "which non-canon Darcy ship is best" poll result: Darcy/Anne Elliot, which mildly surprised me (I like it but am not sure they'd get around to talking to each other), beating out the world conquest pairing of Darcy/Emma.

The "which of my selected Queen songs is the most purely beautiful in your opinion" poll result: "Under Pressure" (with David Bowie), narrowly beating out "The Show Must Go On."

The "what would be the most awesome class/subclass for my Seldarine drow in BG3" poll result: Paladin of Vengeance! (I actually did make her and am just getting back into playing BG3 again after dissertation hell derailed her avenging of injustices.)

The "who played your favorite Marguerite St. Just" poll result: Jane Seymour, easily.

[sailforvalinor]

Who doesn't like Edmund??????? HOW can they not like Edmund?????????? He's the best of the Bertrums!!!!

Well, to be fair, being the best of the Bertrams is not too difficult, lol.

But yes, a LOT of people dislike Edmund, like, probably the majority of the Austen community. I agree!!! It’s so frustrating!!!

Like, Darcy insulted Elizabeth’s family to her face and actively separated her sister from the man she loved, Captain Wentworth ignored Anne’s existence and courted other girls in front of her on purpose, Edward was engaged to another woman while courting Elinor, and we give them passes, but we come down so hard on Edmund for *checks notes* letting Mary ride on Fanny’s horse for too long.

Yes yes, obviously there was more to that incident, but the point still stands—Edmund has committed far less grievous mistakes than most Austen heroes, but he’s the most hated. Why is this??

There’s a couple reasons for this, I think: we never get to see him actually in love with Fanny, and, unlike most Austen heroes, he never gets to perform any sort of grand gesture to make amends for his mistakes. We know that he does fall in love with Fanny and that these amends must have been made (especially seeing how quick he is to apologize to Fanny when he realizes he's been neglecting her in other places in the novel), but Austen deliberately chooses to narrate these events without actually giving them to us directly. Admittedly, this frustrates me, but I understand why: Mansfield Park is not a love story. There is a romance in the story, but that isn't what the narrative is fundamentally concerned with--the narrative is fundamentally concerned with Fanny's development and strength of character independent of (you might even say in spite of) the other characters in the novel. Unlike Pride and Prejudice or Emma, Fanny's character development is not incited by the actions of the hero (which, to be clear, I don't have any issue with--Mansfield Park just has a different narrative formula). Fanny overall is what you might call a static character--not in the sense that she is not fleshed-out or well-developed, but in that she does not go through a lot of character change. Rather, instead of her arc being about changing to become a better person, her arc is about her struggle to remain the good person that she is in spite of outside pressure to change to become more like the rest of the world. (For a really good example of a static character arc, look no further than Captain America!) It's not that Fanny doesn't go through any character growth whatsoever, she definitely does, but this growth overall roots her more deeply into what she believed before, rather than inciting change. The more I think about it, actually, the more it seems like Mansfield Park is a typical "Austen" story told from the perspective of the love interest.

It is actually Edmund who goes through the more dynamic character arc that we associate with most protagonists--which is why I've been thinking for ages that a retelling of Mansfield Park from his perspective could be REALLY interesting. Because told from his perspective, Mansfield Park undoubtedly becomes a love story where it did not hold that status previously. And Edmund would make such a great protagonist!!! There is SO MUCH about his character that I find absolutely fascinating. He of course has a very strong moral compass, which is something I've always admired him for, and despite his attraction to Mary and delusion about her character, is never once even tempted to change his profession from a clergyman to earn Mary's love. We really don't give Edmund enough credit for coming out so well-adjusted and morally upright as he did, coming from a family like the Bertram's. He is also fundamentally very kind, but what's so interesting about him is that he is not, though he certainly tries, always the most attentive. He certainly never neglects Fanny on purpose and is horrified when he finds out that he has, but the fact still remains that he is not the most emotionally perceptive (I'm actually very tempted to draw some parallels between him and Catherine Morland here). Edmund possesses a lot of book-smarts, but is somewhat lacking in social intelligence--or, for lack of a better term, street-smarts. I don't know what textual evidence there is to support this, but I've always had the impression that up until the beginning of the novel, Edmund hadn't had much experience mingling in society, given how as soon as he finished college he was brought straight home to manage Sir Bertram's estate while he was away in Antigua. Regardless of whether or not this is actually the case, it's clear that Edmund is a terrible judge of character despite how morally upright he himself is, which is absolutely fascinating to me. (Again! Catherine parallels!!) Fanny makes a direct contrast to Edmund in this regard--she does not possess the same book knowledge or have the advantage of the education that he had, but she is, though unconsciously, the most emotionally intelligent person in the room and the best judge of character in the entire book.

It is this contrast, but with their shared beliefs about the world and what is right and good, that cements my belief in how well-suited they are for each other. Edmund does not challenge Fanny to change, but Fanny's steadfastness of character does motivate Edmund to change--when he realizes that she perceived what sort of person Henry Crawford was all along and that she was right to refuse him, it exposes to him just how blind he is to the character of others. Edmund basically goes through the same sort of arc that Austen's heroines go through, but this time the roles have been reversed! IT'S JUST SO COOL

Anyway, sorry for rambling. TL;DR, I'm not going to try to convince you that Edmund Bertram is on the same level as Mr. Knightley or Mr. Tilney, but PLEASE examine him critically before you write him off as trash, because he really isn't.

[crossedwithblue]

You're a Mansfield Park fan?

Yes!

IDK if you intended it as such but I am going to take this as a license to ramble about MP on main.

I think the thing about MP is that people (especially people who aren't as quite intense about JA than I am lmao, or who have only read P&P before) often come to it expecting a light-bright-and-sparkling romance like P&P, and are surprised when that isn't the case. Hell, I felt like that too on the first read, because the pop-culture perception of JA is that she was a romance writer first and foremost - but the romantic happy-ever-after is shoehorned into a few paragraphs on the last page or two, and not even shown on the page. MP isn't a romance novel at all - I have minimal English lit knowledge outside of JA, but I'd class it as more of a bildungsroman, maybe? Or a predecessor to those modern Literary Novels all about objectively nasty people being nasty to each other? (More on this in a min) I would very much welcome corrections from people who do know what they're talking about, though!

To me, JA isn't actually a romance writer most of the time. She wrote really good romances because she was really good at characterisation and at understanding and describing how personalities interact to form relationships, and romance is just one type of relationship. It's just the one that pop culture tends to focus on when it comes to JA (I mostly blame Georgette Heyer but of course there's an essay to be written on that too). The only JA novels I'd describe as true romances are P&P, of course, and Persuasion - the rest have romance as just one among many other dynamics as a supporting or side plot, or a tool to reveal characterisation, rather than being the main focus.

Fanny is also a very passive narrator who tends to be acted upon rather than acting herself, which tends to irritate people, but MUCH more on that in a minute.

I think MP is in some ways sort of... cruel. It's certainly the most openly incisive and potentially upsetting, with depictions of complex abusive/toxic family dynamics that could probably come straight out of a domestic/familial abuse/neglect resource. The point where I started to enjoy MP was when someone told me to embrace the schadenfreude - everyone besides Fanny and Edmund (possibly - both points very much up for debate, but they are at least trying their best in the middle of a family that doesn't give a fuck, really) is either an actively terrible person or at least a pretty bad enabler. That did help me find the humour in it, but personally I certainly find it a bit hard to read at times, especially the Mrs Norris scenes. It's not usually my first choice when I want to be cheered up.

This also tends to surprise people, I think, because the pop-culture image of JA, (probably in large part due to her Victorian relatives wanting to protect her posthumous image) is of a twinkly, proper, sweet-natured spinster lady.

Which she was not. Anyone who's seen extracts of her surviving letters knows that she had a biting, frequently uncharitable sense of humour (miscarriage jokes aren't a great look, Jane!) - and we know Cassandra destroyed the really juicy stuff, so that's got to be the tip of the iceberg. This is certainly apparent in all of her books, but can be ignored much of the time - but not in MP, where uncharitable descriptions of awful people are pretty much the core of the book.

Finally, we come to Fanny, the extremely divisive heroine (not least because of that name lol). Personally I tend to imprint on pathetic small girls who need looking after, but Fanny is a massive turnoff (lolol) for many people. I think that's just a personal thing but I enjoy the effect of her frequently becoming another layer through which the narrative filters - JA was a master of free indirect speech, of course, often with deliberate ambiguity about whose POV is being reported - omniscient narrator or character or both in agreement - and if it's a character, then which one? Fanny usually says and does little, but observes very keenly and astutely, which interacts in a really interesting way with the narration.

Also, I'd just like to point out that Fanny is Like That because she is an abuse victim. She may not be the most compelling heroine for everyone, but she isn't going to "just stand up for herself". The one time she does, the Bertrams punish her for it pretty harshly by sending her back to an environment that they know will be bad for her physical health (!)

Bit of a tangent but I am also a huge fan of Jane Eyre and I think there are interesting parallels to be drawn between Fanny and Jane. Jane Eyre is a fiery, independent character who manages to get out of bad situations one way or another, mostly through sheer dumb luck (don't get me wrong I love my girl Jane but How did she leave that parcel on the coach...). If she'd stayed at Gateshead, I could see her gradually getting beaten down until she became a lot more like Fanny - because other than Jane's innate temper, they have quite a bit in common - they both do, when it comes down it, have a very strong sense of self (yes, even Fanny) and the ability to reject things that they know are morally wrong, no matter the potential cost.

That turned into a bit of a defense of MP because I usually hear people dissing it and so that's what I end up thinking about. Lots more to be said on the Crawfords and the Bertrams, of course.

[bethanydelleman]

Jane Austen Charted #1

Appreciation of Fanny Price by Character Over Time

Y Axis Emotional Valence: Love, Admiration, Appreciation, Neutral, Mild Dislike, Active Dislike, and Hatred

X Axis, Sections of Fanny’s Life: Childhood, Crawfords Arrive, Return of Sir Thomas, Proposal, Portsmouth, Affair and Aftermath

(I left out Julia, Yates, and Rushworth. I can only do so much in one chart)

Edit: Mixed up my Y and X axis!!!

[bethanydelleman]

My plan was sending her to the Allens (Northanger Abbey), but anywhere is better than Mansfield!

the feminine urge to take fanny price away from that shit hole and make the crofts adopt her so she can have all the love she deserves

[fanny-price-defense-squad]

I’ve always heard that the entire fandom hates her, so I’m pretty pleased with the top results from searching “fanny price” on r/janeausten

Fanny:

[bethanydelleman]

This was a really interesting read OP! I love hearing people's first impressions of Mansfield Park because it is such a different Austen novel. I was totally tricked the first time I read it too, I thought Henry would be the endgame pairing and that he would reform. I was shocked!

I also agree with your idea that the characters lack warmth. I usually say they are fundamentally selfish, but it is so much that lack of warmth. No fire in Fanny's room to warm her body, no real friendship to warm her soul. Is it any wonder that Henry falls in love with her when her brother visits and he sees what she looks like when she's actually full of love and happy? When she's finally warm...

Now I've finished reading Mansfield Park, which I expected to slog through, but instead it held my interest nearly the entire time. The one exception was the long exchange of letters after Fanny goes to Portsmouth. Then I was taking longer to get through each chapter, and the ending, of course, is as Austenian as I could expect.

Mansfield Park doesn't have the charm or wit of other Austen novels. I had put it off because I read that "no one is likable," and I don't usually have a taste for stories where everyone is just bad and miserable. But having read it, I don't think those critics were justified. Mansfield Park isn't about an unlikable group of characters. It's just that they are very flawed. And a lot of real life is hard to like, but you don't have many friends if you will only approve of paragons of virtue.

Is Fanny meant to be the paragon of virtue? was the question running through my mind. Most Austen heroines are not as perfect as they're accused of being - the only one who really fits that description, in my opinion, is Anne Elliot. (And I could go on about why that doesn't bother me at all and that the world of literature deserves an Anne Elliot or two, but back to Fanny.) Fanny confused me for the longest time. I couldn't tell if she was virtuous and pure, or naive and pathetic. I think for most of the novel she's something of both, and what really kept me gripped was feeling desperate to know whether she'd turn out as awful as the rest. It's an Austen novel, I figured there was no way she wouldn't turn out okay, but honestly I was in suspense sometimes lol, as much suspense as you can be when instead of the threat of an ax murderer hiding under the stairs, the threat is winding up rich and bitter.

My final opinion of Fanny is that I like her in a similar way that I like Anne Elliot. There are a couple lines, about the importance of "knowing your mind," and "being guided by what's in your own self," that made me see more strength in Fanny. She is essentially friendless. And she's much younger than Anne, and she's so criticized and taken advantage of, and so without warmth. So many times I thought "if only she had a backbone," and my fear was that Austen would validate her fear and loneliness as the virtue of "female abnegation" :P But although there are the usual Austen morals, she doesn't do that - instead she gives us Susan, who does have pluck and backbone, and makes Fanny admire her for it and wish she'd had some too when she was first sent to Mansfield. And contrasting Mary Crawford with Fanny is what made me like Mary, and worry that Fanny might be the first Austen heroine to really be disappointed in love. If Fanny had some of Mary's liveliness and confidence, maybe Edmund would have noticed her. And if Mary had Fanny's good judgment, maybe she would have had Edmund in the end. I think the contrasting traits in Fanny and Mary Crawford are some of my favorites in Austen novels, because they're so real and developed that I couldn't tell for a while who was going to come out ahead.

Fanny is everything "good" in an Austen heroine, but her flaws are still real. And Mansfield Park doesn't beat around the bush when it comes to how easily she could have wound up a villain instead of a heroine. If Edmund had married Mary, Fanny would probably have married Henry and been miserable, because despite all the blabber about "she would have fixed him," I think he would have gone right on cheating and breaking her heart. Austen had more faith in Henry Crawford than I do, lol.

As for the rest of the cast, apart from Mrs Norris, I don't think anyone is hateful. But they don't have warmth, they don't have real affection. That is palpable in the novel and reminded me over and over how much I wished Fanny had a friend. When William appeared, I braced myself for his betrayal - but although he's not around much, he ended up being her true friend. I could almost wish he wasn't her brother because he treated her much better than Edmund did. William knew how to show love. If he had been brought to Mansfield Park when Fanny was, maybe Fanny would not have fallen in love with Edmund, because she would have already had a best friend who could definitely never become a romantic option.

But although the lack of warmth is so terrible, that's what I mean when I say the novel is real. I think the lack of concern for their so-called loved ones the characters show, as well as the biases and prejudices that are inconvenient for them to shed, are exactly how many families really are. Taking each other for granted, seeing each other how you wish to, and being mostly concerned about whether or not someone is useful to you personally. It sounds cynical, and there are many loving, caring families who are nowhere near as selfish as the Bertrams or the Crawfords or even the Prices. But there are many which are. And I like the way the novel made it felt. Rather than make the abuse obvious through violence and threats, the coldness is covered up by decorum, which makes it even more insidious and long-lasting. I was really sad, just deeply sad for Fanny in many places, every time I wished she had someone who would listen to her and side with her the way everyone else expected her to do for them. I'm nowhere near as virtuous as Fanny, but I know how much it sucks to bite your tongue over and over, and when you finally tell the truth, to be told that you don't know your own feelings, or you're just too ignorant to understand what you should feel, or that your judgments are wrong because it's currently convenient to the other person that they should be wrong. Sometimes I was identifying so much with Fanny that I had to stop reading. It's not gaslighting - that term is too strong. But it is inconsiderate. I was lucky because I always had a listener in my mom. She may not always understand me, but she listens and respects me. I never have to worry that what I say may set her off the way I did with my dad and brother. Lately my dad's been much better with me, which I truly appreciate - but I also can't forget him telling me that I shouldn't be insulted that he thinks opinions like mine are "stupid, because "I know you're smart enough to one day agree with me!"

Which, weirdly, brings me to Edmund... I was on the fence about him the whole time. At first he seemed like he WAS Fanny's friend, the kind older brother figure who cared about her happiness. After a while I started to suspect that he was more about the appearance of charity than about really being kind. I suspected him of betraying me and becoming exactly the kind of clergyman Mary denigrated. But other times he would do or say something that made me change my mind, and decide that he's not fake, he's just flawed. Being flawed is much better than being fake. My number one issue with him was when Fanny turned down Henry's proposal, and Edmund, despite saying he wouldn't try to sway Fanny's feelings, winds up doing just that - because it's convenient for him to think of the Crawfords as good people, because the theater debacle was embarrassing to think back on, and because he admires Fanny's judgment, so if she judges Henry Crawford good enough to marry, he'd no longer need to have scruples about marrying Mary. It was the most selfish he ever was with regard to Fanny. It really made me feel he could never love her, and even opened me up to the idea that Henry might, actually, be Fanny's endgame match, lol. Because Henry seemed to notice all the things no one else did about how lonely and uncared for Fanny was, and even to encourage her to find her voice. It was literally Fanny pointed out that how could she trust a man who had taken advantage of the feelings of not one but two of her cousins before immediately redirecting his flirting on her to make me realize "no way, it's definitely going to be Edmund, lol."

Henry's better than Wickham, but not by a lot. Edmund, however, is a far cry from Mr Darcy. I wish very much that Mansfield Park ended in some way to make me like Edmund better, because right now the best I can say about him is that he's not as silly as his siblings, and he is at least capable of real love. It's hard to hear the wedding bells because as far as I can see, the Edmund Fanny loves is his childhood self, and the grown up version hasn't really done much to deserve her. He's more commendable for not doing things to not deserve her, lol. Their relationship is probably the least romantic of any in Austen's novels, imo. Fanny really loved him, and there was a lot of romantic pain in watching him fall for someone else. But by the time he finally sees Fanny, the novel is over... xD This is not a criticism though... I was really intrigued to find out how each character would turn out in the end. And the only thing I'll say which is sort of disappointing is that everything turned out how I predicted it in the beginning, aka like an Austen novel. But even though the Crawfords and Edmund didn't develop more as characters, I still appreciate how much complexity they add. Like, they made me guess about an Austen novel, haha. And in retrospect I shouldn't have, because I knew the finale from the curtain rise. But still. They made me guess. They almost, almost made me believe Mary would be rehabilitated and Fanny would give in to poor judgment. Hehe.

If anything, I appreciate this novel for food for thought, ie imagining all the different stories it could have been. I like that one way of life, the rich, performative lifestyles of Mansfield Park, is shown warts and all - and then we're taken down to Portsmouth only to find it's warty in similar ways, just with less polish. It makes you a little more sympathetic to mercenary marriage vows. Like, if I'm going to be miserable, I might as well be miserable in comfort, haha. But of course the novel doesn't posit that either. If Fanny had gone to Portsmouth and found her family humble but full of love and wisdom, there'd be a completely different outcome. Or if she went to Portsmouth, realized how much better things were at Mansfield, went back and informed readers that she had been overly sensitive thus far and actually everyone in Mansfield was so kind, and Mrs Norris just misunderstood - then again we'd have a totally different outcome. We get neither. It's just the world the way it is. Being poor comes with challenges and being rich comes with advantages. But happiness isn't a guarantee either way.

Well, I liked Mansfield Park much more than I was expecting to. I'm really shocked by how invested I got when at first I really thought Fanny might be the Austen heroine to finally make me say "enough is enough!" But Austen is too good, I can't hate her characters at all. She's able to give so much depth, or at least familiarity, to every one of them that they're just too human for something as base as hate. I even gave up wishing Fanny would find her voice and just wished she'd find a friend. And in the end, I'd say that IS what she got, even more than a husband - the friendship of her brother and sister and even Sir Thomas, as well as the loss of the anti-friend Mrs Norris. If any Austen heroine ever suffered so much for being alone, it's Fanny Price. That to me is the real source of her final happiness. And since Austen nearly always gives her heroines a sister or a best friend or some trusted confidante, the lack of one in Mansfield Park has to be intentional, and so I don't think Austen would disagree with me.

[bethanydelleman]

The thing about Fanny Price is you could put her in any of the extrovert led novels and she'd solve the plot immediately:

"Catherine, that girl Isabella is sus, she's constantly saying things that she does mean. Do not trust her."

"Elizabeth, why did you not inquire further into the conditions on the will? Because that story of Wickham's is sus and he's sus and I really doubt that's the truth."

"Emma, Mr. Elton is flirting with *you*. Frank is sus. That dude is hiding something and I bet he bought that piano."

Fanny's superpowers are sitting quietly in a corner, being suspicious of charm, and listening.

[leafsbabe]

Do you have a link to the interview with Brady, matthew, and their dad and it is asked who will get married first?

the full 4 minute or so interview is on tumblr somewhere but here’s the part about the marriage