#fakeclaiming IS abusive and fuck you if you think it's not

[thelunastusco]

Also like, so many sysmeds (or whatever) cry "DID/OSDD is more than alters!" okay... so they can acknowledge that the disorder is about more than just having parts, alters, sysmates, etc. That there's other criteria involved.

So it's almost like... you know... the plurality aspect, on it's own, isn't enough to qualify something as a disorder.

Almost like, it exists as a separate phenomena.

It's just such crap that here we are, over ten years since the worst of this nonsense started, and people are still just SO DETERMINED to either misunderstand, or purposefully misconstrue, what non-traumagenic systems are talking about and what the plural community is.

Literally no one is saying that a disorder can exist without the criterion for that disorder. They're saying that plurality, which is only ever sometimes PART of a disorder (not all with DID/OSDD/etc are plural or a system) is not inherently a disorder in and of itself.

And they're right. Plurality alone is not a disorder.

It is, in fact, ableism and harmful to suggest that plurality is inherently pathological.

It is, in fact, "discourse" (let's call it what it is: abusive) to tell people that their experiences-- which can't even be proven or disproven scientifically, NONE of our existences can, trauma-formed or not-- are false, misremembered, or faked, and harmful to others just be virtue of existing. "Your existence isn't discourse because you don't exist :)" fuck right on off, lmao.

Like, yeah, true. Sysmeds don't hate non-traumagenic systems for being systems, because they don't believe they're systems at all, and many are both THRILLED to announce that at every given opportunity and rip to shreds anyone who disagrees. But whoops, that is "discourse"! Fancy that.

The only statement in this entire thread of posts that's disingenuous is "nobody hates you for being a system, they want you to stop speaking over systems and stop spreading things that simply aren't true".

"Nobody hates you for being a system": nice misdirect attempt. Like not only is it a flat out lie, but combined with the next two lines...

"They want you to stop speaking over systems": nice reveal of what we mean by "because they don't think you're systems at all". Sure, they can't hate you for being a system! :) Because you're not one! :)) Unless you ACTUALLY are trauma-formed and disordered and just don't know, poor sweetie! :)))

"Stop spreading things that aren't true": and there we have it, the finishing touch. You aren't getting hate for being a system, because you're not one unless you exist the way we say you should exist, and any insistence otherwise is lying and ableist, and causing harm to ~REAL~ systems.

It's the DARVO of syscourse. 🙄 And here we are, a decade later, with people still acting like they're doing something to help systems by parroting it. They're not. They're just making it harder for all systems (especially since trauma-formed systems who AREN'T disordered exist) and attempting to ostracize an entire portion of the community for no good reason. A portion who are helping fight for the rights of all systems and have given the whole community a lot of tools, terms, and support that benefits trauma-formed systems too.

So, fine, it's not "discourse". Cool. Okay. In that case, let us be candid: it's vile and abusive, and we're sick of people pretending it's not.

i wish the existence of nontraumagenic plurals wasnt seen as "discourse"

i wish my want to feel safe in plural communites wasnt seen as "discourse"

i wish my want of the world to accept my lived experience wasnt seen as "discourse"

talk about nontraumagenic plurals and their place in communities isnt discourse. we are beings that just want to be accepted and feel safe. our existence isnt discourse.

[sysmedsaresexist]

The discourse around whether ramcoa as a term is antisemitic or not has opened the door to people once again fakeclaiming ramcoa as a concept

Wow, I'm shocked

I wonder if that was the point all along

It kind of hit me when I saw someone bring Qanon into this

What the fuck is wrong with you people that you think this kind of abuse denial is okay?

[spooksforsammy]

So many people know so little about disabilities especially on Instagram. It’s starting to get annoying.

They don’t know much about autism, especially as you get higher up (level 2 & 3).

They don’t know much about personality disorders especially as they get more severe. And let’s be honest, they straight up believe in cluster b abuse. They believe And they don’t hide it. They believe people with cluster a are monsters.

They don’t know it effects every little thing. Every conversation. Every action. Thoughts. Feelings. The disabilities play a role.

They talk about how Disabilities and how they spent their whole life being shamed and fakeclaimed. Then turn around and the the same exact fucking shit.

They know nothing about being medium or high support needs. Needing help on the little things. Then say it’s not possible to be medium/ high support needs. Say it’s fucking harmful.

Having a disability doesn’t mean you can’t be a piece of shit. You can be one. And truthfully if you think your not, but fake claim, shame for severe disabilities, ignore those of us with higher support needs or just straight up be bitchy (and know your doing so/ not taking accountability). You are a piece of shit. If your forcing people to give proof on their disabilities guess what you are. (Hint: a piece of shit)

No one perfect. Even if have disability. Even if gone though shit currently doing to others. You are not exempt.

[the-crystal-femmes]

BEFORE YOU INTERACT / DO NOT INTERACT

// pt: before you interact / do not interact //

Disclaimer: our dni only usually applies to follows and direct interactions, however we do hold the right to block liberally :>

DNI:

// pt: dni //

Bigots (racists, queerphobes (includes aphobia!), antisemitists, intersexists, ableists, etc.), fatphobes, kink / nsfw blogs (we are hypersexual), anti endos and sysmeds, identity policers of ANY kind (as long as the identity isn't problematic), rqs and transIDs, proshippers, disordered abuse believers, anti-kin, pro/neu/complex contact harmful paraphilias, SH / ED centric blogs, anti self-dx with research, syscourse centered blogs and singlets who involve themselves in syscourse

Dni Explained (link)

Thin ice:

People who censor filter tags, those who refuse to translate typing quirks

Dnfi (do not follow if) your blog is centered around the omegaverse / misceverse, or a yandere blog. We're very uncomfortable with those types of things.

We are a median parasian traumagenic system. We believe we could have Partial Dissociative Identity Disorder however were still doing research. We don't support fakeclaimers and syscourse around here, our blog is endo safe and we don't believe singlets belong in syscourse. We're also fictive heavy, mainly Monster High and Steven Universe. We block anyone who uses anti endo tags on sight unless we're aware they aren't going to be a threat to us (mainly mutuals).

Some of us are in a polycule so please keep that in mind lol. I (Yellow Pearl) am mostly vocal about it

Our collective identities (non-alterhuman) are lesbian, and aromantic. Genders vary from sysmate to sysmate but the host (Yellow Pearl) is a nonbinary neogirl. Please don't call me a girl, I still consider that misgendering 👍

We are bodily intersex but only I (Yellow Pearl) and Pearl are label ourselves as such.

Our username is a joke on how most of us are Steven Universe fictionfolk as well as femme lesbians! We are NOT terfs, terfs can back the fuck off

We are bodily physically alterhuman, we are an anthropomorphic bat who's real form is hidden under a 'veil'.

We prefer not being mutuals with anyone who can't handle what we post about, or our mental stuff. We tend to a vent a lot, and we have an organization tag that can be filtered if it becomes too much. We also don't want to be mutuals with anyone who thinks they can't handle Ula.

If you have a problem with our behavior, we'd prefer you shoot us an ask or a DM. We'll get to ya when we can. We also ask you remain civil while doing so. (Edit: asks only as we made DMs a mutual only thing due to the fact people would DM us for stupid shit.)

Our co-host, Ula, is very uncomfortable with doubles of Draculaura. This is due to her narcissistic personality disorder. We understand that it may not be a choice, but we ask that others respect Ula's boundaries. Ula has exceptions but those are very rare. You're still free to interact but we request caution exercised around her.

Some of us are very controlling about how our fictionselves are portrayed, please keep that in mind! We are usually lax around other fictionfolk, though.

We are NOT anti kink. However one of our sysmates is hypersexual. We ask mutuals kindly to filter tag any kinky things for that reason.

Pearl and Ula don't tend to use tone tags, so please ask for clarification on their tone if it's needed! We're unsure why they don't use them.

The only ones who tend to sign off are Pearl and I (Yellow Pearl). If you need clarification on who's talking, please ask!

We have npd. We've done all the research we could and refuse to get professionally diagnosed. We're not in any financial state to get diagnosed and fear being discriminated against.

We try our best to stay out of discourse but we may end up posting about it at times. These things will be tagged with "#cw discourse" or "#tw discourse".

[ dividers by @/adornedwithlight ]

[anomalymon]

A bit of an analysis of anti-endo rhetoric and how it encourages dangerous fakeclaiming behaviors that is not just dangerous to endogenic systems, but can spiral into being extremely dangerous for other trauma survivors.

Anti-endos create bait accounts all the time. Usually the intention is to get people to interact with them so they can get cringe material or just otherwise to make fun of whatever group they're targeting (usually endogenic systems, but also fictives for example). Likewise they might make honeypot servers for a similar reason.

This time though creating a bait account where you are baiting a type of trauma survivor and encouraging their experiences is incredible fucked up. Worst case scenario someone could have felt safe enough to give information about their personal trauma to the bait and then have that smeared onto systemscringe.

The other part is now ritual abuse is probably going to get more stigmatized within anti-endo spaces. This happens with troll accounts. People will assume blogs claiming to have programming will automatically set off people's red flags, and people trying to post about their trauma will get grilled or fakeclaimed. If you have derealization, this can get incredibly triggering.

It's part of the rhetoric of feeling like there's an epidemic of fakers. Because of this, they dehumanize them and think it's okay because they're "harming the community". It's between thinking they can't really be trauma survivors because RAMCOA isn't real, or it's okay to treat them like this because they're using an outdated term.

At its core it involves not listening to people on their subjective experiences, and refusing to believe anything outside of the bubble that's been deemed as "psychologist approved". It involves blaming other systems for systematic ableism and the reason they aren't taken seriously, and people play into that by telling them that. The radicalization of people in this way and the way these beliefs have bled into both system and trauma spaces is a very bad thing.

(Note this isn't to say you're automatically a bad person for falling into this rhetoric. It does prey on the fears of trauma survivors and the mentally ill. However, it can very quickly become a gateway to creating an extremely dangerous space for everyone else.)

[sailormoonsailorstars]

By the way I just want to put this out there

If you are on the side of fakeclaimers on people with DID you are not welcomed here! You are not helping us! Even if someone is faking that is a very small minority of this community and you are just appealing to ableists with your claims

And by sourcing your takes from places like lolcow, 4chan, and Reddit you are making yourself look incredibly fucking stupid

In terms of the Pixielocks situation- as someone with dx’d DID, I have watched Pixie’s channel since the “I kicked a transphobe out of my store” video. That was like 2016-2017 for me

I have seen the way they’ve presented over the years and I do think it’s consistent with having distinct alter parts pre-system discovery

There’s no reason to claim they are faking or demand documentation of their diagnosis or abuse history.

I also would like to remind the people harassing Pixielocks by sourcing their claims out of gossip forums that these forums were harassing pixielocks before they said anything about coming out as system. They are horrible people that fat shame, are queerphobic, and ableist all around. Serious PLEASE check your sources lmao

[sophieinwonderland]

hey sophie. there's been a lot of sysmeds fakeclaiming my mutual @/snowchester-system for being a RAMCOA survivor and pro-endo. i thought sysmeds liked dx'd survivors

I got this ask over a week ago. I wrote up this draft the same day but I held off on posting it. Snowchester has now been revealed to be an anti-endo bait account organized by a former r/systemscringe member.

This isn't at all surprising to me.

Below is what I wrote at the time but never posted:

----------

I'm sorry. I'm not going to be weighing in on this.

As much as I want to stand by survivors in general, that account hasn't been up to two weeks and I'm seeing more red flags than a Soviet parade.

I would be suspicious of the claim to be diagnosed with ASPD at 15 when it's in the diagnostic criteria that you can't be diagnosed if you're under 18.

They claim that this is because their team decided they were a special case... but does that happen? Do doctors just decide to flat out ignore the criteria for a disorder in the DSM and diagnose it anyway even when the criteria isn't met? Because I've never heard of this happening.

The reason you don't diagnose certain disorders in minors is because symptoms of personality disorders could be things you grow out of. And especially if you're talking about someone who was literally just removed from a traumatizing situation, any rational person would realize that's likely to contribute to their behavior. The RAMCOA history should never be a reason to say "this is actually a super special case and we need to fast track their ASPD diagnosis." It should be a sign that you need to slow down and give them time away from their abusers to actually grow and process their trauma before diagnosing them with a lifelong personality disorder.

But fine, doctors are human, and humans are fallible. Maybe they shouldn't ignore a disorder's diagnostic criteria but I suppose it's technically possible they did anyway and diagnosed this when they shouldn't. Concerningly though, the user claims their "team" decided this, meaning multiple doctors were in on this bad decision.

I also find the mention of being diagnosed with "highly complex dissociative identity disorder" to be a bit suspicious as well since that's not a medical term. But again, let's say it's fallible doctors. It's technically possible they picked up a community term and just ran with it.

I mean, "multiple personality disorder" was never in the DSM, but it was commonly called that by doctors. (It was just called "multiple personality" in the DSM. Calling it "multiple personality disorder" created the weird misconception that it was a personality disorder when it was always categorized as a dissociative disorder. And I will find any excuse to mention this that I can because it's my favorite piece of DID trivia.) So yeah, technically possible.

Meanwhile, they're in the US witness protection program in Mexico. Something which, I suppose, could happen in the absolute most extreme cases if the feds decided nowhere was safe in the US, but is pretty difficult to setup since it involves cooperation between multiple nations now. Which is why witness protection doesn't usually relocate to other countries.

The fact that they're confessing to being in witness protection means they're already ignoring witness protection guidelines. Yeah, even if you are on an anonymous account, do you really think a dedicated hacker couldn't find a way to track you down?

What's worse is them mentioning that they're in contact with some of the other kids from the same cult, because THEY REALLY SHOULDN'T BE! Especially if this is an organization that is so sprawling and dangerous that Witness Protection moved them to another country, something which Witness Protection wouldn't normally do.

And at this point, I'd kind of prefer if they were lying. Because either they've made everything up... Or they are violating their witness protection deal and endangering not just their own life, but the lives of the other survivors they've kept in contact with. Because if somebody did track them down, they could then access their other social media accounts to track down the others.

----------

So that was the end of my draft as it was written. (The only edits I made being to add emphasis to certain words and correct grammar.)

I wonder if I did the right thing by not posting it. If I had, I might have been able to keep people from buying into very blatant lies.

But... I was concerned about the 1% chance.

What if they weren't lying? What if this was a real person who just happened to have literally the worst doctors in the world who blatantly ignored the diagnostic criteria of their patient? Who diagnosed them with disorders that were community-made terms? What if Snowchester really was just that stupid as to reach out to the other children from their cult? Because let's face it... kids can be really stupid sometimes.

Maybe the reason the story sounded so unbelievable wasn't because it wasn't true, but because literally everyone involved was just that unbelievably stupid and incompetent. It could happen. Sometimes in life, you run into people, even those with medical degrees and those that should be professional, who commit malpractice or are ignorant of things they shouldn't be.

So I held off, not wanting to risk fakeclaiming someone who could be telling the truth, however incredibly slim the possibility was.

Now, the problem with liars is that it can be incredibly hard to take anything they say seriously.

They claim that they organized this with u/Pomme-Pomme, the former owner of r/systemscringe. Is this true? I have no idea. It seems impossible to tell for certain. This could be yet another lie to cause infighting in r/systemscringe, since Snowchester seems to just be in it to create chaos.

But if they are telling the truth now, I just want to take a moment to comment on how hilarious the reasoning is for them going rogue from that group!

Hun, if you believe RAMCOA is an antisemitic conspiracy theory... why were you citing the ISSTD?

You do realize they're the group responsible for the so-called conspiracy theory, right?

If this is true, this is such an epic r/leopardsatemyface moment. Of course there was a falling out from you citing the group of doctor that you people have been demonizing and painting as conspiracy theorists the last year!!! How are you surprised by this???????

Anyway, this just leaves me with one final question for the anon. A question I've had in the back of my mind for the past week.

Was this you, Snowchester?

Because it feels like you. Or maybe someone from the same group.

On the off chance this was just a random person fooled by Snowchester, I'm sorry it turned out how it did...

But this ask just feels like an attempt at baiting me into this conflict.

And if it was... were you disappointed when I didn't respond?

You should know that I've ran my own anti-endo parody blog and have infiltrated an r/systemscringe Discord server. If you confused my willingness to give the benefit of the doubt with gullibility and picked me for an easy mark, I'm sorry to inform you that you've sorely misjudged me.

[musicalmonstrosity]

TW;bodily injury, detailed abuse, cringe culture, ableism, Domestic abuse, child abuse, CPS mentions, the system cringe subreddits

Fakeclaimers are so funny ngl bc they’ll be like “if that happened where’s the scars and proof why aren’t you being abused!” And then I’ll just be like oh word? Which scar you wanna see, this injury is the freshest (I still can’t touch it even while it’s scabbing the bone def got fucked up again) (thanks dad), or we can cover the hundreds of scars all over my damn body. We can cover my malformed legs from being broken so many damn times and the CPTSD fucking up my joints worse. I could audio record the horrific sounds my body makes due to abuse I suffered still effecting me into adulthood. I could show them the pictures of me in secondary locations to be abused. I could send them my CPS workers info and the social workers notes the day I came to school with a stab wound and bruised ribs.(and that shit happened 6 years ago, guess what my ribs are still fucked up!)They don’t actually want proof because when you show it it’s “seeking attention” or it’s “overdramatized” they have to move the goal post because they will dickride for abusers so hard. You could show them your damn diagnosis papers and they’ll sit there and say it’s fake or doctor shopping. Fakeclaimers and their echo chambers don’t care about “stopping fakers to protect disabled people” they want to sit on a high horse when ironically they don’t even have the conditions to speak on it or have such obvious internalized ableism. At this point their groups are becoming blooming hate groups that are becoming dangerous. I’ve actually been victim due to their rhetoric, guess what ,the majority of them are teenagers, ignorant and think they know it all. Back in high school a student who loved those fakeclaiming groups decided that I was faking my disability that required me to use a cane and the elevator (literal doctors note is required for either of these on school grounds and I got banned from using the stairs anyways because I kept getting injured on them). So what does he do? Threaten to break my cane, and eventually he actually did, feeling all righteous until I wasn’t getting up. He had to learn that day you don’t know people and your assumptions can get people killed, if I had hit my head when I fell from him kicking my cane inwards I could’ve died. All this because of what these people spread. I’m sick of it. And please try to fake claim (sarcasm) me so I can pull out my diagnosis papers and therapy notes. And for fucks sake you can see my meds, it’s not like I hide em on this blog.

And the funniest part about all of this? No one owes random people proof or great detail of their abuse or disorders. If you’re not their doctor or psychiatrist why care? It’s simple, they don’t care for proof, they care to target people and protect abusers.

[deathepicx]

I'm in a mental better state to start talking about this so I will. My post about RAMCOA was posted on Systemscringe and I am being fakeclaimed to hell and back. And this person is pissing me off and proving my point about people thinking RAMCOA is some satanic panic bs. Also they're just lying about what I said and putting words in my mouth. TW for RAMCOA talk and mentions of CSA and horrific child abuse in general under the cut.

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, and Organized Abuse. The ritual abuse gets mistaken for satanic cult stuff constantly when in reality it's abusing someone in the same exact way on certain days and times. Like "we do this on this day/everyday, at this time, the same exact way everytime". That is what Ritual Abuse is. It can include elements of cult stuff (most commonly cults that use Christianity like certain churches) but it's not really cult stuff. And I am NOT a victim of that, I don't see what I went through as that. I'm a victim of Mind Control and Organized Abuse.

For the Mind Control it's the process of TBMC (Trauma Based Mind Control) where you INTENTIONALLY traumatize a child enough to make them dissociate and develop a dissociative disorder. It's not the sci-fi fantasy stuff that you guys see on TV.

And for the Organized Abuse it's just two or more perpetrators working together to abuse one or more people. An example of that would be a trafficking ring and CSEM (I am a victim of both).

These are very real things. And I never said I was abused by a super secret SATANIC cult. Y'all just assumed that because that's what YOU think it is. I was abused by an organization/trafficking ring of some kind that trafficked children and produced CSEM and snuff like films. I was regularly taken to a building to be drugged through injections that would make me dissociate and tortured in horrific ways and sometimes it was recorded. And other than this organization my aunt also trafficked me to friends of hers and people she knew that wasn't even connected to the org. One of them recorded his instance with me where he almost took my life and ran off with the material. And my aunt proceeded to severely beat me afterwards for being "too loud". I almost died that night and still get horrific flashbacks to it.

Also someone in the comments said if I want to claim to be a victim of this I should be able to list the organization. First of all, THAT IS DANGEROUS. There are organizations/cults that will hunt down their victims and harm them if they ever came out. Second of all, a lot of victims don't remember the organization's name. Which is me, I don't remember the name (if it even had one). It's not like my maternal aunt and grandfather sat me down and told me the names of the people, organization/ring, and what would happen. All I remember is them taking me to the building with NO WARNING that the abuse would take place in. And because of the intentional development of DID through torture I remember almost nothing about the building besides of two rooms. An all white room with concrete or tiled floor that was very cold along with a metal table with straps on them and a bedroom with a child's bed (it looked like a bunk bed of some kind). The abuse happened in both rooms. This is all I can remember about the building. I was only 4 to 8-11 years old when I was actively being abused by this org. And no it did not happen EVERYDAY but it happened on a regular basis (lets say a weekly basis for now because I really don't remember how often it happened).

What happened to me is not some conspiracy theory bs. It is real. I deal with flashbacks to these events everyday. And the people in the comments are just proving the points I made. Y'all know JACK FUCKING SHIT about RAMCOA. You prefer to believe what you hear on shit like Fox News. You prefer to believe the organizations that often use lies to cover themselves up. You guys often cite an organization (*cough* gray faction *cough*) that commits RAMCOA acts and spreads lies about the reality of RAMCOA. As if it's a valid source. RAMCOA isn't some antisemitic satanic panic conspiracy bs, it is real. And if you bothered to do basic research on it you would know that, but I guess your brains are too tiny for that.

Anyways if you want to read this and post me again and fakeclaim me, fine. But you'll be proving my points. And karma will bite all of you in the arse for spreading misinformation and basically protecting these abusers. Call me insane idfc anymore. My own psychiatrist and therapists believes me and even gave me resources and help for RAMCOA victims. Which proves that it's a real thing.

Also I never claimed my job making me carry boxes and my mom drinking was satanic abuse. I don't remember talking about my mom's alcoholism and I was just venting about my job. Because I have a physically demanding job that I'm struggling to keep because of my physical disabilities getting worse. Y'all are putting words in my mouth.

Also for ANYONE reading this, if you see that I'm posted on these subreddits DON'T BRING IT UP TO ME. I actively avoid them for a reason. This is the type of shit that makes me relapse and nearly harm myself. I was close to doing that this morning just from this post. I don't want to see this shit anymore so please leave me alone if you ever see that I'm posted on these subreddits. I already expect it but I don't like digging for it for this reason. Let me ignore these people please stop showing them to me.

[antiendovents]

Content warning for a very brief mention of Hitler, mentions of someone sui baiting, and mentions of autism fakeclaiming. There are also mentions of abuse, but nothing in depth or remotely descriptive.

Please stay safe <3

at the moment, our current host is a cc!wilbur soot introject. one that formed in the soothouse era. He is uncomfortable using fanart as a faceclaim and tends to use actual photos of the cc as that is what he is more comfortable with - that's him, that's how he looks. (He knows he isn't the actual cc, dw).

His pk display name has his name, pronouns, and emoji combo. Pretty.. pretty standard shit, honestly. He has set up the base account to be an extension of his pk. NONE of this is... uncommon behavior that we've seen in the syscord communities we've been in.

However, in the last week alone, he has been legitimately compared to ADOLF HITLER!! By a singlet who also claimed that DID wasn't an illness and that most people are fakers. another singlet in that server asked if we could split an alter for fun and if we could do that for them. Oh. By the way? We're Jewish. Openly Jewish. We have spoken about being Jewish in that server before. That was known information. yet that person still chose to call us. That. I'm thankful that Wilbur, while hurt, finds it an ironic twist of fate as there is a song by wilbur soot called screensaver where there is a direct lyric "call me Hitler, no one will notice the fucking difference".

Another singlet in a different server asked if he could change his name and icon as it is upsetting other members. That, despite the fact he hasn't DONE anything personally, he is triggering people. Just by existing. Also, apparently, just because he exists, he might support the abusive actions.

Now! The system server, that's the worst bit. Another member told us to kill ourselves for having our base account icon be cc!wilbur. The server staff did NOTHING to the member who has on more than one occasion outright bullied people, actively calling people freaks and telling people to kill themselves.

However, we got banned as wilbur stated he was uncomfortable using fanart as a faceclaim and that it would be more damning for his mental health. He even explained why he had changed the base account, as it was giving us active joy during a really hard time in our current life. That we can not help having an autistic special interest. We also got fakeclaimed on the autism front.

thats.. jeez. people really need to understand that introjects aren't their source and do not owe anyone complete source separation. those singlets sound-- horrible. being an introject of wilbur soot is not the same as being ADOLF HITLER!?!? that singlet just sounds stupid as well, because DID is a real disorder that many people have. the other singlet also sounds very fucking stupid because like-- he isn't his source and if people are genuinely triggered by wilbur soot then they're the ones who should be managing that, they shouldn't expect wilbur to change for them, thats just unrealistic. wilbur soot is not the first person to use the name wilbur, actually his name isn't even wilbur. this kind of logic is so stupid, like are you gonna go tell every single evan out there to change their name just because one evan committed an atrocity? no, no you wont.

and that server is just horrible because WHAT. they just let a member go around bullying others and telling people to kill themselves??? thats just stupid. we honestly hate syscord sometimes, that place is so toxic and they struggle to treat systems like regular people despite the fact half of syscord is made by systems. its really just horrible. also the fake claiming-- like really?? whats even the point of that?? autistic people cannot control special interests ((as far as i am aware)). honestly as long as you aren't giving wilbur soot money by streaming his songs / watching his videos then i think its fine ((try stick to watching reuploads of his stuff if possible because then it might not give him money,, i hope?? i don't really know how youtube works sorry))

[sysmedsaresexist]

As someone with OSDD (if I’m right) what’s the worst misinfo about DID that us endos discuss in our spaces? /genq

JCYDJFCYS I love this question, I want my mods to jump in, too, but I'm going to spice it up with the worst misinformation from both sides.

For me, Dude, the worst I've seen in endo circles... is that DID is the same thing as mediumship. This is going to seem like I'm vagueing one of two people, but it's not you two (you'll know who you are). There's actually someone from before them that gave me the worst taste for that discourse, and probably made me a lot more angry about it.

In anti circles, it's got to be that dissociation is solely trauma-based. It's the most fundamental misunderstanding that leaks into everything else

I think those are my two biggest peeves.

-

Mod Quill here to say FFFFFF I HATE MISINFO. Gosh it really is in all the communities, too.

In endogenic spaces, it’s hard for me to decide, but I think it’s the idea that the ToSD is ableist because “it supports final fusion” (which is its own can of worms, which I think Mod Robo might touch on, if my guess is correct). The ToSD doesn’t even fucking mention final fusion get off it. I hear about the ToSD being ableist constantly, and genuinely, it seems like just being medical at all in any way is considered ableist…

Meanwhile, anti-endos? Good lord. The worst misinfo I see is the gatekeeping of trauma. “You can’t develop DID from XYZ” — congrats! You’re a fakeclaimer who doesn’t understand how trauma works. I pray no newly discovered systems find you.

-

Mod Robo here! Oh gosh, what misinfo haven't I seen? I swear I've seen the wildest shit!

Some of the worst stuff from pro-endos was them claiming or implying that CDDs are just the "broken" versions of endogenic plurality. I've seen people claim that DID doesn't require trauma, that the DID diagnosis only exists to stigmatize endogenic plurals, and that CDD systems who use terms like "parts" or "alters" just want to dehumanize ourselves and others.

Around 2019, a pro-endo started spreading a rumor that MPD was renamed to DID in order to stigmatize plurals which is just so horribly incorrect. Multiple dissociative disorders were renamed at the same time to have the word 'dissociation' in them, and it was done by a team of researchers. The pro-endo used the previous DSM chairman's ableism to spread lies and drag innocent DID systems into discourse.

Like mod Quill said, there's been a ton of misinfo from pro-endos over ToSD (theory of structural dissociation). I've seen people claim that it's completely bunk because one of the researchers who worked on it (there were multiple) lost his medical license for abusing a patient. I've also seen pro-endos try to apply ToSD to endogenic plurality and conclude that ToSD must be bunk because it doesn't fit? It just makes no sense to me because the theory was created to explain trauma-related dissociation caused by disorders like PTSD and DID, etc... It has nothing to do with plurality.

I've also seen tooons of horrible shit from pro-endos AND anti-endos about final fusion and fused alters/systems. I've seen people say it's comparable to grooming or suicide, or that these systems are just secretly "pluralphobic" and trying to become singlets. Honestly, the hatred and misinfo I've seen people say about fused systems is some of the worst.

As for anti-endos, I've seen lots of bad misinfo too... One of the worst things is gatekeeping common CDD things based on trauma type. For example, saying that nonhuman alters are only possible in systems who experienced ritual abuse. Other common CDD things I've seen anti-endos say can only happen due to ritual abuse: gatekeeper alters, subsystems, polyfragmentation, alters with number names or color names, switching due to triggers, alters who feel loyal to their abusers, alters that other alters can front through, certain headspace stuff like checkered floor tiles, having a headspace in general, etc.

I could say more but my reply is already longer than both Dude's and Quill's combined. I'll just leave it off here!

-

Mod Signal: I like this ask a lot lol. It shows genuine curiosity and a desire to improve spaces. Misinfo collects like dirt around syscourse. We all have to sweep regularly to make sure that shit gets thrown out.

On the pro-endo side, the worst I've seen is endo systems attempting to lean into the fantasy model of CDDs to support their own plurality. That model has been debunked for quite a while, and it has hurt so many goddamn people. CDDs are trauma-based, we don't have to reverse scientific progress or fakeclaim some of the first cases of recorded CDDs to support endo systems.

On the anti-endo side, my least favorite bit of misinformation is the idea that the TOSD shows how different people's trauma ranks in the trauma Olympics. The idea that someone with polyfragmented DID must have had things worse than an OSDD 1B system who must have had things worse than someone with BPD, etc. The level of dissociation required for each label in the DSM relies on so many more factors than just "who had it worse". There are biological dispositions to dissociation to take into account, there's the reminder that what's traumatic to a child isn't always considered traumatic to an adult, there's attachment styles to take into play. There is so much more to the science than "I had it worse than you and I have the diagnosis to prove it".

--

Everyone is welcome to reblog and add their own. This could be a good learning opportunity for people to go, "wait, that's not true??"

[the-firefly-jar-system]

Please don't use the actually traumagenic tag if you're not clinically diagnosed with a traumagenic disorder. You have a clinical diagnosis and you're not old enough to have DID, you are the exact type of person that the ACTUAL diagnosed traumagenic community has to deal with. Kids like you pretending to have a diagnosis you don't have causes people to hate those of us who are diagnosed.

You do not have DID. you're not actually traumagenic. You're a kid who's taking a fucking roleplay too seriously and mocking people in the process. Please stop using the internet and go see your psychiatrist, you need help with your attention seeking and lying.

we are professionally diagnosed. i think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how DID works. it can onset and present at any age, it is only more common for it to onset and be diagnosed at a later age. based on the theory of structural dissociation (the current widely accepted model) you are blatantly wrong in your claims. you have no evidence to fakeclaim us, and even if you did, a simple message like this would not stop any faker. we are seeing a specialist in trauma and dissociation currently, and we see our psychiatrist at least once a month. we went through years of vicious child abuse, only for you to come and tell us that we’re “too young” to have a trauma disorder that we’re literally diagnosed with? grow up and do something that actually benefits people like us instead of sending hate anons to severely traumatized teens

[circular-bircular]

it seems like a lot of the issues you see with pro-endogenics are happening on discord servers and I'm wondering if part of the issue with people not addressing things here is just people here aren't necessarily on the same, or any, servers

I definitely agree misinformation is bad, an issue in many pro-endogenic circles, and needs to be corrected but it seems weird to criticize people on tumblr for not knowing whats going on on discord

Where do you think I'm finding these discords, I do wonder...

These discords are not somehow isolated from the rest of the internet; the people on discord are also people who exist elsewhere on the internet, including on tumblr.

The shit I see on tumblr is worse.

It is widely acknowledged in almost all of the servers I'm in that Tumblr is a cesspool of misinformation and disgusting shit. I could criticize for my entire life about Tumblr, but the issue is, so many things contribute to the misinformation that it's impossible to address them all. At least when addressing Discord servers, I feel like I'm actually addressing people who have some modicum of respect for what I'm saying.

On Tumblr... Well. Let's address some of those issues.

I far more frequently interact with children on Tumblr than I do on Discord, because I can actually curate my spaces so much better on Discord. Children often do not have as much knowledge of things like a severe trauma disorder, of which the research is riddled with medical jargon that many haven't been taught to read properly.

People VAGUEPOST GODDAMN CONSTANTLY. It's so goddamn pointless, it drives me up the wall, and it's the culture. On discord, people at least reply directly to others. Meanwhile, on tumblr, everyone makes their own post about everyone else, leading to completely missing out on context.

The sheer fact that everyone is on anon leads to the most vitriolic bullshit, and because it's anonymous, people fakeclaim traumatic experiences due to anons constantly. The amount of times I've seen people claim the abuse systems have faced from anons was secretly anti-endos trying to make pro-endos look bad... I've seen the other side too, so it's not even a one-sided thing, it's fucking heinous. All because "But they're anonymous!!!" At least on discord, people have to show their fucking faces.

Lack of moderation. I can at least block anons now on Tumblr, but on Discord, if someone says fucked up shit... they get kicked. Like. I don't have to deal with them anymore. On Tumblr, we've got so much block evading that I can barely keep up with my block list. On Discord, block evading leads to the person getting banned and even sometimes blacklisted from other servers I'm in. People actually have each other's backs in servers on discord.

Good lord, that's just a few things. But the fact is, my posts are criticizing the communities, not just on tumblr, but everywhere I experience these things. These things are impacting everywhere!

I'm criticizing people on tumblr for not recognizing that these problems extend beyond tumblr. And given how so many other people on here are talking about twitter half the time, I think that's valid. (Sorry if this came across as aggressive anon, I'm just in a mood tonight I think. None of it is directed at you, I think it's a fair question why I discuss discord so much here)

[drill-teeth]

It's late at night, but I have an angry thought. I find it extremely upsetting just how completely the online discussion of mental illness is no longer actually about the mentally ill, especially the most at risk.

Discussions of cluster b disorders only exist to demonize those disorders now. To identify a group of people who can have a very hard time coping and healing and readjusting and take language associated and basically redefine them and their experiences as being abuser disorder.

People will invoke actual symptoms in bad faith so frequently as an excuse to shift social conversations that aren't about them to themselves that a lot of people no longer know the words' medical definition. Hardly anyone can give me the actual definition of spoon theory or compassion fatigue because they don't know what those symptoms mean. And the only thing they're using them to mean is "I'm tired and don't want to put in the energy to engage with others' problems" which is not the fucking same thing.

People will do a watching Tiktoks level of mental health research, self diagnose a disorder, and then become a brand new well of misinformation of that disorder. And you can hardly point out that these people are spreading misinformation and a watered down version of a disorder that can be easily explained in other ways because you'll get accused of fakeclaiming and being an ableist. And actually I don't think it's ableist to point out mental health words mean what they mean.

A lot of people think they can't be ableist about the mentally ill if they have a disorder, so they'll slap adhd or autistic in their bio to try and appear mental health friendly. And whether or not they are adhd or autistic doesn't matter because they are still ableist and are trying to convince you they can't be.

One of the most shitty things ever said to me (aside from classic anon "kill yourself" asks) was someone who had read my comic on identifying as bigender, went to my blog and saw I identified as having a disordered, plural identity (and I know they went to my blog to dig this up because it was not mentioned on the post with the comic) and told me being that mentally ill meant I was too traumatized to identify as trans and much less bigender and that I was probably just a butch girl who should keep my voice down. And that is completely infantilizing and insulting and ableist. And that person had "autistic" proudly displayed in their bio.

The conversation of mental health online is dominated by ableists who just want to use mental health terms they don't understand to avoid criticism. And that shouldn't be a boogeyman that causes people to never trust anyone with a disorder in their bio again because that's ableist as fuck too. But god is it disheartening.

[syscultureis]

(likely a longpost but still think it should be sent)

plural culture is getting fakeclaimed because someone who's fully professionally diagnosed thinks trying to trigger a switch (without permission or being asked) for your alter who actively doesn't engage outer world because that's not his job and he avoids it more than anyone else, triggering 2 switches by distressing multiple people including those who are still fronting to shut down the conversation, and you not being in a state that has the chance for diagnosis for anything and your last attempt (before you had a LOT MORE INFORMATION involving your system and how/why it is how it is and the traumatic events and the swept under the rug abuse that caused you to be a system) resulted in only getting "yeah they disassociate" and your previous host literally splitting you and heading into the subsystem, is enough to "prove" you aren't a system and have trauma and that this isn't some bullshit that your brain made up.

(sorry we're still pissed that because they were professionally diagnosed they thought they had the right to try and trigger switches to a specific alter who actively has never fronted since he never needed to or wanted to to prove we were faking even with our partial diagnosis when we actively would rather NOT have 1100+ alters and roughly 9/10 being fictives and introjects because of our type of trauma paired with our autism and add and possibly other unknown mental shit still effecting us today.) (we'll send a lighter noted one in a bit that involves haha silly goofy but MAN if you're going to fakeclaim someone- at least in cases where you can't fully tell just online stalk them or act as their friend to gain proof or straight up block them. Don't fucking TRIGGER SWITCHES WITHOUT ANY PERMISSION OR HAVING BEEN ASKED TO???? TO PROVE SOMETHING THAT DIFFICULT TO??? that just is gonna make any traumagenic system hate you even if you go "oh so you aren't faking? cool! I was wrong!" afterwards since you just proved you weren't safe for any of them at all as the first impressions.)

:(

[sophieinwonderland]

On The Survivor's Network Admin's "Apology"

As many know, the Admin of the Survivors' Network made an awful post about me back in November. In the recent document from the Survivors' Network, it included the admin's "apology" to the server, and I wanted to address that.

The Original Post

Pictures of the original post are at the bottom under the Keep Reading. TW in advance for fakeclaiming, transphobia, misgendering, bullying, etc.

The "Apology"

When the post resurfaced this year, the admin had this to say in the Survivor’s Network: i am going to be fully transparent. i am the one who made that post, on November 28th of 2022. it was a shitty post. but ugh. i don’t know. i was in an abusive situation i was still in denial about and taking my anger out where i felt it was righteous. i had been trying to stay away from syscourse for similar reasons, but i’ve got a part i failed to keep track of there. and that is shitty. i was just so pissed that, just like she is now, she was only afloat after some terrible shit coming up because of claiming oppression she neither understands or actually experiences. i was so fucking upset, as a trans person, that she had repeatedly waxed about being and identifying as cis and then as soon as it benefit her claimed that she was oppressed in the same way trans people are. it fucking hurt to see that and to see so many people just accepting it— because that was why she said it. not because she actually believed it, but because it put her back in good standing to have a few more made-up oppression points. and then i did the Really Shitty thing and i decided to break through the Sophie Wall and talk directly to the host. and i got really fakeclaimy, and i regret the fuck out of that. if i could go back and have not made that post, i would. it’s private now, and, for full transparency, if any of you want to see the full post i can send it but in honestly ashamed by it now. i don’t care whether or not sophie is experiencing what she says she is, i don’t want other people to see that and be hurt by it. i just. ugh. i was being an idiot. in the place i am now, i’d never make a post like that. i feel really bad about it. it was immature and a very obvious display of lack of inhibition on my part. it does highlight where i think i’m still in need of s lot of growth, though, and reminds me i do need to continue to work with [alters name that I am not going to include in this incredibly public post, for system privacy] in therapy. i do also want to apologize to you all for doing this. i wasn’t leading by example. i wasn’t being mature. i was spitting vitriol, something that especially now, more than ever, with my current religious/spiritual growth and my personal growth in therapy, never feel is okay. i used to be a very hateful person towards people that i felt were wronging me and/or my community, and this is no exception to that. i regret it deeply, and can only rectify  that by promising that i have been growing and will continue to grow as time goes on. i’m really sorry. and i’m sorry that i didn’t deal with that post sooner— i would have if i had remembered it was there. i actually need to go through all my oldest posts, some of them are pretty bad.

Who the apology was for...

To be clear, this was not an apology to me.

It did not express any regret whatsoever at how it might have affected me. They express that they're concerned about other people being hurt by it and that they're sorry to the Survivors' Network for not leading by example. But they don't seem overly bothered by its impact on the person it was about.

Which is fine. I don't care. I'm not asking for an apology, and certainly wouldn't want them to fake one for my benefit. But since that one ask suggested I was given apologies, I suspect they might have mistook this post made in the Discord server... which wasn't intended for me, didn't express guilt over how it affected me, and wasn't in a place I could even find it unless I had a spy in the server... as an apology to me. I just wanted to establish for the record that this apology was worded in a way that it was directed at basically everyone but me.

Reasons are given in the document why they chose not to reach out and thought it would be a bad idea. And while those may have truth to them, this post reads as if they don't feel guilt for how this might have impacted me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if that is the case, then I'm genuinely thankful they didn't try to give me some fake apology they didn't mean. I don't need and don't want it.

That's not what I wanted to talk about though.

Yes, Cis-Identifying Headmates With Different Genders Than The Body's AGAB Are Still Oppressed In The Same Way Trans People Are!

Let's zero in on this...

i was so fucking upset, as a trans person, that she had repeatedly waxed about being and identifying as cis and then as soon as it benefit her claimed that she was oppressed in the same way trans people are.

Do you think that the reason trans people are oppressed is because cis people just really hate the word trans?

That if trans people just called themselves by a different label, they'd totally be accepted in society?

No. Of course not!

And likewise, just because cis-identifying headmates with different genders from the body's AGAB don't identify as trans, that doesn't mean that they aren't oppressed in the same way trans people are.

That doesn't mean they won't be directly impacted by the way society treats any GNC people, and even much of the transphobic legislation being passed right now!

Transphobia isn't actually hatred of just the people who call themselves trans. It's hatred of people with different genders from their AGAB and GNC people, regardless of if they call themselves transgender or not.

On Why I Identify as Cis...

First, the most obvious reason I identify as cis is because I am. As far as I'm concerned, my inner form is my true form. And it's always been assigned female. What our shared body's assigned gender is doesn't matter to me.

But I will make a confession: the reason I talk about being cis so much, the reason I flaunt it, is to make a statement.

There was a very infuriating bit of sysmed gatekeeping last year that argued that headmates can't identify as transgender if their gender is the same as their AGAB.

I found this incredibly hypocritical given that almost all systems have non-transgender headmates with differing genders from the body's AGAB, but they're not forced to label themselves as transgender.

At the same time, they also don't publicly call themselves cis despite feeling cis on the inside.

So my goal of bringing up being cis frequently is to challenge accepted norms for systems. To normalize publicly identifying as cis headmates, and by extension, to normalize headmates with the same gender as the body's AGAB identifying as trans.

If people have a problem with trans-identifying headmates with a different gender from their body's AGAB, then they should also have a problem with cis headmates with a different one. And that means the vast majority of the plural community.

I call myself cis, all the time, to get people to think seriously about how we conceptualize gender when it comes to systems.

But identifying as cis doesn't mean I don't experience gender dysphoria while fronting, nor does it magically stop me or any other cis-identifying headmates from being victims of the same oppression we would face if we identified as transgender instead.

On Having Room To Grow

It was nice to apologize to the other people who saw it.

But this apology still doubles down on some of the most harmful points. It denies the oppression systems with cis-identifying headmates face, and practically presents our gender identities as less valid than those of trans-identifying people.

And in this way, they fail to understand a huge part of WHY their original post was bad.

Yes, the fakeclaiming was awful, and could easily send people into derealization spirals. The language itself was cruel and verbally abusive.

But let's not ignore the huge problem with the premise itself. The whole ideology it's built on that the only way GNC people can be oppressed is by explicitly identifying as trans. That discrimination against systems for our genders isn't as bad as discrimination against transgender people.

And this is something that I sincerely hope the user and anyone in the system community who agrees with them, can grow out of.

The Original Post:

Oh, and no one in our system has ever used 4Chan. 🤷‍♀️