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katerinaaqu · 1 month ago

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helloooo so im not a fan of greek mythology or classics or anything like that, but something about the suitors of penelope caught my eye so i just wanted to ask if there are any other suitors named in the odyssey that arent antinous, eurymachus or amphinomus? (i forgot how to spell the last guys name)

+ and if youre willing enough, did any of them have characters / personalities and maybe even the slightest bits of stories of their own, outside of the whole yknow. "trying to make penelope marry and kill telemachus" thing? if thats too much though i completely understand, lovely blog!!

I mean it would be great if you were Anon! Hahahaha but that's fair.

Of course there are several names that appear in the Odyssey. Of course the most known ones are Antinous, Eurymachus and Amphinomus but there are several names that appear in the Odyssey as you remember from my post about Antinous where I mention the misconceptions around the Odyssey,

you see the name of Leiodes. Other names rescued are:

Leocritus, Agelaus, Amphimedon, Elatus, Eurynomus, Euryades, Demoptolemus, Peisander, Polybus and Ctesippus.

Unfortunately most of the names of the suitors are not mentioned in the Odyssey however we have other scoliasts and future writers, for example Apollodorous who also makes a list of several other names in his book "Epitome":

From Dulichium came fifty-seven: Amphinomus, Thoas, Demoptolemus, Amphimachus, Euryalus, Paralus, Evenorides, Clytius, Agenor, Eurypylus, Pylaemenes, Acamas, Thersilochus, Hagius, Clymenus, Philodemus, Meneptolemus, Damastor, Bias, Telmius, Polyidus, Astylochus, Schedius, Antigonus, Marpsius, Iphidamas, Argius, Glaucus, Calydoneus, Echion, Lamas, Andraemon, Agerochus, Medon, Agrius, Promus, Ctesius, Acarnan, Cycnus, Pseras, Hellanicus, Periphron, Megasthenes, Thrasymedes, Ormenius, Diopithes, Mecisteus, Antimachus, Ptolemaeus, Lestorides, Nicomachus, Polypoetes, and Ceraus.

And from Same there came twenty—three: Agelaus, Pisander, Elatus, Ctesippus, Hippodochus, Eurystratus, Archemolus, Ithacus, Pisenor, Hyperenor, Pheroetes, Antisthenes, Cerberus, Perimedes, Cynnus, Thriasus, Eteoneus, Clytius, Prothous, Lycaethus, Eumelus, Itanus, Lyammus.

And from Zacynthos came forty—four: Eurylochus, Laomedes, Molebus, Phrenius, Indius, Minis, Liocritus, Pronomus, Nisas, Daemon, Archestratus, Hippomachus, Euryalus, Periallus, Evenorides, Clytius, Agenor, Polybus, Polydorus, Thadytius, Stratius, Phrenius, Indius, Daesenor, Laomedon, Laodicus, Halius, Magnes, Oloetrochus, Barthas, Theophron, Nissaeus, Alcarops, Periclymenus, Antenor, Pellas, Celtus, Periphus, Ormenus, Polybus and Andromedes.

And from Ithaca itself the suitors were twelve, to wit: Antinous, Pronous, Liodes, Eurynomus, Amphimachus, Amphialus, Promachus, Amphimedon, Aristratus, Helenus, Dulicheus, and Ctesippus.

However one must bear in mind that all these names do not appear in the Odyssey so it is unclear whether Apollodorous has mentioned these names out of other sources or if he came up with a few of them himself! Hahaha especially since Apollodorous seems to be raising the number of the suitors from the standard 108 to much more than that!

But yeah that is food for thought as well even if Apollodorous lived several centuries after Homer.

As for the last part yes of course there seems to be several of character development to the suitors that at least are named in the Odyssey for as you see from the post that I made,

Antinous is the leader of the suitors in one way. He is as you see the most outspoken and one of the most arrogant ones and the way I read the passages of his it seems almost as if he is constantly intoxicated. I find it no coincidence that he died when he was ready to get a drink! I also love it, as I mentioned to another post of mine, how his name seems to mean "against all reason" aka "madman"

Eurymachus strikes me as the guy who is the "rich brat" in one way if I am allowed the comparison. He seems to be the richest of them all and he seems to be the one Icarius prefers the most for his future son-in-law because his own wedding gifts were the richest. Eurymachus seems to be a smooth talker and he often gets in the middle between Antinous and Penelope (for example Penelope goes on a full attack on Antinous accusing him and Eurymachus gets in the middle) but in a more slithering way, if that makes any sense. He is also the one who throws Antinous under the buss when he sees Odysseus is up for the kill to them all. He says that Antinous who is just killed was the root of all evil in there and that Odysseus needs to do nothing more. He also suggests they would pay back what they ate. He strikes me as the rich kid that thinks he can solve stuff with money. Eand wine .urymachus also seems to be confident with himself because he seems to have a close relationship with Odysseus and the royal family or at least his family does since Eurymachus mentions how Odysseus used to place him on his knees when he was a child, feeding him roasted meat and wine

Both Eurymachus and Antinous seem to be though capable athletes (they were the best at throwing the javelin and the discus while they were playing together) and like Antinous he seems to have knowledge on weapons such as bows and arrows.

Amphinomus is more of a diplomat material. In fact Homer states that out of all the suitors Penelope liked him the most because he was a smooth talker and he seemed gentle. In fact Amphinomus prevented the suitors from killing Telemachus TWICE in the Odyssey. He didn't deny the suggestion of the kill per se (so that he wouldn't lose the support of the other suitors) but he said that they need to first make sure that the killing was agreeable to the gods as well (in a way he also seems to try and prevent the killing altogether). He said that if gods wanted that then he would kill Telemachus himself but if they do not it is a sin and it shouldn't be followed. He is also one of those who encourages the others to stop mistreating Odysseus (disguised as a beggar) and encourages them to let Telemachus treat him as his guest given that this is the right thing to do. It seems that even Odysseus noticed he has kindness in him for he is the only suitor he actually doesn't only test in order to save him from doom but he ACTUALLY warns him to escape doom but Amphinomus doesn't heed the warning and remains. He also seems to be the suitor that at the end of the day didn't try to harm Odysseus out of hatred but he ran towards him with his sword trying to get him out of the way towards the exit so basically he tried to run away. Telemachus killed him with a spear through the back (his first kill for that day) and again I find it interesting and ironic that his name means "between two rules/shares" because he seems to be in a limbo state between the suitors and Telemachus and in the end he dies between two rulers (Odysseus and Telemachus). Amphinomus strikes me for a good guy that ended up with bad companies. In one way he seems to be in a way reflecting Odysseus too since he does try to persuade others with his words and navigate his way through stuff (plus the fact that Penelope liked him more than the others because of the way he speaks with logic AND Odysseus seeing the potential in him and actively trying even more to save him compared to others).

Leiodes was also called "soothsayer". It was said that he was one of those who was head over the heels in love with Penelope and he genuinely wanted to win her hand. He seemed to be a gentle guy or at least gentler than the rest who really wanted to earn Penelope. He was also the first to protest against bending the bow, realizing the impossible of the task thus earning the angry reaction of Antinous (see at my post that I link). It is also arguably the most shameful out of the killings Odysseus performed given that Leiodes managed to clasp Odysseus's knees begging for his life and also saying that he never bothered or bedded any of his slave girls, according to the customs of employing ritual, Odysseus couldn't refuse him the favor and he should normally spare him his life as he requested (in this case this doesn't apply classically given how Athena was there encouraging). Odysseus though was furious for Leiodes's notion to marry Penelope and he cut off his head.

Leocrtitus strikes me as someone who thinks too high of himself. His name appears technically once in the Odyssey and that is when he fights against Mentor (Athena in disguise) and claims that even if Odysseus himself were to show up in the palace, Penelope would have no joy upon seeing him because they would more or less kill him. Leocritus seems more like the guy that boasts a lot from that line or that is certain of himself when things are certain but only when he is certain that nothing would go wrong. He speaks with certainty they can take Odysseus when he is most certain that Odysseus would never show up because he thinks he is dead.

Agelaus seems to be similar to Amphinomus here for he too seems to have some humanity inside him (although arguably one can also say that he is pretending of that he has his reasons behind it) since he also speaks to the suitors and advises them to stop tormenting the stranger (Odysseus in disguise) or stop bothering the slave girls in the hall (most likely the women who were unwilling to serve the suitors) and he even said that "he hoped Odysseus would come back but that doesn't seem likely" (the latter seems to be more a pretend wish than anything but that is up for interpretation) but he keeps trying to sooth-talk Telemachus to tell his mother to choose the one that brought her the best gifts to which Telemachus says that he "doesn't want to force her and that he hopes the day will never come". Agelaus also strikes me for a very calm fellow for even in the chaos of battle after Antinous, Eurymachus and Amphinomos are dead Agelaus still calls for Melanthius and makes the assumption that Odysseus doesn't have enough shafts for them all and that they should sound the alarm or something and try to find their way out and apparently he was right because Telemachus accidentally left the door to the weaponry open so Melanthius came back holding some weapons for some of the suitors. So yeah that too seems like a great thing not mentioned enough. Also even amidst the chaos he tries to find allies for he turns to Mentor (Athena in disguise) and tries to persuade him not to be swayed by Odysseus's words unknown to him that he is speaking to Athena and when he sees that "Mentor" is not helping, he is showing leading skills and he gathers around the best remaining of the suitors to organize themselves and fight back. The latter gives a meaning to his name as well given how Agelaus means "leader of people"

Eurynomus has no lines in the Odyssey but I find it interesting that Homer decided to share with us that Eurynomus is one of 4 brothers out of whom one of them accompanied Odyssus to the arduous trip, Antiphus, and he was in fact one of his comrades that died in the hands of Polyphemus and in fact he was the last to be eaten by him so Eurynomus for me signifies the visual representation of the people who are left behind and possibly their complicated psychology. His father Aegyptius who was mourning for the death of his son (for he had stopped hoping to see him again) and the other two brothers that helped his father at the farm. Somehow makes me wonder was Eurynomus TOO EAGER to make his father proud? Perhaps he stopped caring? Did he have any recollections of his own brother or not? How was his relationship with his other brothers? Was he, if I may make a random comparison, an "edgy teenager" who just didn't care anymore? And arguably Homer also names him as "one of the best" of the suitors so that shows he did have plenty of potential. Who knows indeed

Amphimedon and Demoptolemus are also not having any lines and are mentioned once and twice respectably in the Odyssey but both were some of those that Homer names "the best" that Agelaus brings close to him again showing their potential.

Euryades is only mentioned when Telemachus kills him so not much is known on him.

Same goes with Elatus who is also mentioned only when he is killed by Eumaeus and nothing else is very much known of him

Peisander is mentioned during the wedding gifts process when Agelaus gathers him close to him as well (again one of those that were praised for their potential) and when he is killed by Philoetius.

Polybus now seems to be mentioned as "wise" but I also see the name being associated as the father of Eurymachus more often. There is only mentions of Polybus as a suitor and that is when Agelaus is gathering around him the best he can find in chaos and when he is killed by Eumaeus. Most likely we talk about two different people that just share the same name. I don't think both father AND son are competing for the hand of Penelope unless Polybus was there just to make sure that Penelope would marry in their family but that doesn't seem likely to me given how Eurymachus gives gifts that are said to be the best so if his father was also there I would expect them to have similar gifts and that Icarius might as well approve of the father as the husband to his daughter plus the fact that the suitors are named as young makes me doubt that Polybus the father of Eurymachus and Polubus the suitor are the same person. But here's some food for thought!

Ctesippus is the one that is mentioned from moment 1 that he has "lawlessness in his heart" so he seems like the most violent or potentially viscous of them all. He stands up and says that he wants to offer a "guest gift" to the "stranger" (Odysseus in disguise) one of the slave girls that belong to Odysseus. He even proceeds on taking an ox's hoof from his plate and throw it to Odysseus but Odysseus dodges it. The move causes the reaction of Telemachus and his reaction also brings forth Agelaus who also says to the suitors to stop abusing the stranger. Ctesippus doesn's seem to be a very potent spearman for he manages to graze the shoulder of Eumaeus in the battle but his spear was deflected by the swineherd's shield so either he is not as good in battle or he was drunk or panicking for he lost his weapon like that.

I hope that helps a little at a small interpretation/analysis on the suitors of Penelope as presented in the Odyssey plus an extra list of Apollodorous even if I do not fully allign with it, I just placed it here for the sakes of the encyclopedic knowledge! Hehehehe!

But thanks for the question Anon because it is important to remember how complicated all the homeric characters are! Even those that are supposed to appear brutes, they have also secret sides that Homer did let us known they existed!

Also yay this is my 5000th post!! 🥳 🎉 🪅 🎊

I deeply apologize if I forget someone and I shall elaborate more to reblogs and/or comments if there is one that I missed or forgotten etc.

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red-moon-at-night · 4 months ago

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Thinking about the idea of Helen's desire for kleos, and how she is limited in the ways in which she can achieve it as a woman, it is rather interesting to see how the most 'obvious' solution to it is avoided �� through children.

The main consensus surrounding Helen's number of children is that she gives birth to one, a girl called Hermione. Some sources bring up several others, but the earliest and most consistent child mentioned (and birthed by Helen) is her:

He was bringing Alector's daughter from Sparta for his son, mighty Megapenthes, grown up, who'd been borne him by a slave. The gods no longer made a child appear for Helen after she gave birth to her first child, lovely Hermione, who had the form of golden Aphrodite. (Homer, Odyssey, OD.4.10 - ca. 700 BCE)

MENELAUS [Laurentian Scholiast on Sophocles' Electra, 539]: 'And she (Helen) bare to Menelaus, famous with the spear, Hermione and her youngest-born, Nicostratus, a scion of Ares.' (Hesiod, Fragments, CW.F70 - ca. 650 BCE )

Now Menelaus had by Helen a daughter Hermione and, according to some, a son Nicostratus; and by a female slave Pieris, an Aitolian, or, according to Acusilaus, by Tereis, he had a son Megapenthes; and by a nymph Cnossia, according to Eumelus, he had a son Xenodamus (Apollodorus, Library, 3.11.1 - ca. 100 CE)

When Orestes became king of the Lacedemonians, they themselves consented to accept him for they considered that the sons of the daughter of Tyndareus had a claim to the throne prior to that of Nicostratus and Megapenthes, who were sons of Menelaus by a slave woman. On the death of Orestes, there succeeded to the throne Tisamenus, the son of Orestes and of Hermione, the daughter of Menelaus (Pausanias, Description of Greece, 2.18.6 - ca. 174 CE)

It seems the later the sources get, the more children are added (look at that Apollodrus extract! Menelaus has been around!); but even then, Hermione is always mentioned, and often mentioned as the only legitimate child of Helen and Menelaus.*

*Yes the Scholiast on Euripides, Andr. 898 Cypria fragment does mention Pleisthenes the third born child, but... we're ignoring him (lol). As far as I'm aware he's only mentioned once and also no confirmation he's legitimate. Sorry Pleisthenes.

Now, let's talk about that a little. Helen giving birth to a daughter, and proceeding to not have any more children after that raises an important point — Helen does not produce an heir for her husband. Helen, as Menelaus' wife is expected to do that but she simply... doesn't. She has one child and that's it. Sometimes that one child isn't even intentional:

And she (Helen) bare neat-ankled Hermione in the palace, a child unlooked for. (Hesiod, Fragments, CW.F68 - ca. 650 BCE)

unlooked-for = unexpected; unforeseen.

However, as Ruby Blondell mentions in 'Helen of Troy: Beauty, Myth Devastation':

"In normal circumstances such failure to bear a son would jeopardize a Greek wife's position, since it denies her a woman's primary avenue to status within her husband's household. Since she did not relocate upon marriage, however, Helen needs no sons to establish her status at Sparta. Moreover, the absence of a son helps her maintain her independence. When a son grows up, he becomes another source of male authority over his mother." (pg. 32-33)

She has different circumstances from her peers; she doesn't need children to retain her status. In fact, if she were to bear a son it might be worse for her position.

This would explain her reluctance for children, if the lack of them was indeed a choice. Nonetheless, it's worth exploring the possibility that it is unintentional. There's certainly evidence for it being so, if we look at how Hermione fares in adulthood with her own fertility:

(to Andromache) but as for thee, slave and captive, thou wouldst fain oust me and secure this palace for thyself, and thanks to thy enchantment I am hated by my husband; thou it is that hast made my womb barren and cheated my hopes (Euripides, Andromache, 117 - ca. 425 BCE)

Helen is struggling to have children, and now Hermione is struggling to have children — like mother, like daughter. Is the infertility hereditary? Or perhaps there are some godly influences afoot:

TYNDAREUS Scholiast on Euripides' Orestes 249: Stesichorus says that while sacrificing to the gods Tyndareus forgot Aphrodite and that the goddess was angry and made his daughters twice and thrice wed and deserters of their husbands (Hesiod, Fragments, CW.F67 - ca. 650 BCE )

While this extract focuses only on Tyndareus' daughters and their infidelity, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the curse of a god could extend to multiple generations of a family (e.g. the house of Atreus) and in other ways — in this case, not being able to get pregnant/have a successful pregnancy.

However, considering the infertility as an intervention by the gods, I don't think that this is necessarily a 'curse'. This feels more like fate. That, regardless of whether it is Helen's choice to have just Hermione or not, it is destined to happen. The subtext being 'just Hermione' and no more.

Blondell mentions that in Theocritus' poem The Epithamaly of Helen, the chorus pray that Helen bears Menelaus a child that resembles herself. If we take the quote from The Odyssey earlier, of Hermione 'who had the form of golden Aphrodite', we can assume that prayer is fulfilled. Blondell also says:

"There is something a little strange, however, about the chorus's prayer. ... since there is no doubt about a woman's identity as a mother, the crucial point, for a husband, is that his wife's offspring should resemble him. It seems strange too, at a wedding, to pray in effect for a daughter as opposed to a son and heir." (pg. 32)

Helen will have a child, and it will resemble her, but that's it. No sons, no heirs.

Enter stage left: Zeus' plan to reduce the population of demigods by having a beautiful daughter, who will instigate a long and bloody war.

How do you get such a daughter to instigate a war? By leaving her husband because she desires more than the cards she has been dealt.

If Helen does desire kleos, but is essentially barred from achieving it in the ways a woman traditionally does, then she must seek it elsewhere.

In choosing to leave with (effeminate, unconventional) Paris: If she doesn't wish to have children, maybe she thinks she can escape the 'inevitable' fate of all wives to bear a son and be known only as their mother — she will seek kleos elsewhere. If she does wish to have children, maybe she has tried to bear children, many, many times after Hermione and cannot, and in that shame of failing to meet the minimum standards of being a woman — she will seek kleos elsewhere.

Whatever her feelings are on the matter, fate remains the same: Helen will have a daughter that resembles her, and Helen will go to Troy with Paris. The facts still remain the same too: Helen cannot bear a son, and this separates her from womanhood. She cannot successfully be a woman by society's standards, and cannot make her legacy her children.

She must find kleos in other ways.

#helen of sparta #greek mythology #hermione of sparta #menelaus #analysis #im certain there are other sources that bring up children but I thought this would suffice to illustrate my point. Hermione is always there #Also: are there sources that mention children via Paris? yes there are - but that's *after* leaving to Troy.#So it doesn't really matter after that point speaking in terms of fate. She's already left her husband! War will break out.#Anyways I found this train of thought really interesting and wanted to write a post about it <3 Helen is so complex and sad </3 #she's the most beautiful woman in the world. but is she the most moral or ideal woman in the world by her society? not really.#she's so unconventional and that comes out in many different ways (like this)

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k-nayee · 6 days ago

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CHAPTER 27. ASHES AND HONOR

❝In death, as in life, they inspire us to feats of greatness.❞

Warrior M.List | Act Three

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˚＊˚✦ʚ♡ɞ✦ ・・✦ʚ♡ɞ✦ ⚔️・⚔️・⚔️・⚔️・✦ʚ♡ɞ✦ ・・✦ʚ♡ɞ✦ ˚＊˚

The sounds of competition filled the air.

With the breeze of mid-day carrying the scent of sweat, sand, and burnt offerings from the funeral pyre still smoldering in the distance; cheers rose and fell with each event, an energy both celebratory and mournful woven through it all.

You sat atop a grand podium as the golden urn nestled carefully in your lap—its weight both physical and metaphorical. Within it rested the mixed ashes of Achilles and Patroclus, bound together in death as they had been in life.

Your fingers absently traced the edges of the urn, its metal cool beneath your touch despite the warmth of the sun.

Beside you was Thetis.

She sat in solemn grace, her sea-green eyes distant yet filled with something unreadable. Saying little throughout the day, the divine woman merely watched as the games played on before her.

The decision to name you as the overseer of the games had been unanimous. After Patroclus' death, you had been Achilles' closest companion—the one who had stood beside him in battle, who had held his lifeless body as his legend came to an end.

Even the most hardened Greeks knew that if Achilles had lived he would have surely wedded you. And if Fate had been cruel enough to deny that, then at the very least it was right that you be the one to oversee his final honors.

Each event had been a fierce display of strength, skill, and the rivalry that thrived among the Greek forces.

The Chariot Race had been the most exhilarating so far. Dust had barely settled as Diomedes crossed the finish line, his chariot flying past his competitors with Athena’s blessing securing his victory.

Eumelus, who had been favored to win, suffered a misfortunate accident where his chariot broke apart on the course resulting in the battered and bruised warrior a special prize to ease the sting of his loss.

The Boxing Match was nothing short of brutal. Epeius was one of the few you had the pleasure of sparring with over the years. Though the man was built like a mountain, his actions outside of fighting proved him to be a pacifist at heart—tending to the injured in his free time to even mending the rips in the clothing of his fellow troops.

Unfortunately for his opponent in this event, he reminded many why he is known for his strength to begin with, knocking the poor Mycenae soldier out with a single devastating blow.

The Wrestling Match had been an unexpected delight for the crowd as Penelope had stepped forward to challenge. The two had gone toe-to-toe.

Where Ajax relied on his overwhelming strength, Penelope countered with sheer intelligence and strategy. In the end, the match was declared a stalemate that earned them both equal honors.

Now, the fourth event was set to begin—The Footrace. Competitors had already begun stepping forward, standing before you and Thetis in a line of acknowledgment as they did before each event.

You scanned their faces as they bowed their heads in greeting, your mind only half-present as you gave the customary nod of approval. As the competitors made their introductions, a small figure shuffled forward from the line, emerging from behind the much larger warriors.

You blinked in surprise.

A boy.

His brown hair was shaggy mess as he wore a tunic slightly too large for his slender frame. He was strapped in simple sandals, his small feet barely kicked up dust as he stepped forward.

Realizing all eyes were on him, he stood stiffly in place, his small hands clenched at his sides as he swallowed hard, his starstruck eyes darting between you and Penelope before bravely lifting his chin.

Nestor suddenly stepped forward to place an aged hand on the shoulder of the boy. “I see you’ve noticed our youngest competitor,” he mused warmly. “This is Prince Ajax of Locris, Son of Oileus.”

Your brows furrowed slightly. 'Another Ajax?'

You straightened slightly in your seat to get a better look, the weight of attention causing his cheeks to flush further.

Sensing your silent question, Nestor continued. “His father had evaded conscription to the War on Troy for years. But after the death of Patroclus, the Greeks scoured every corner for any remaining fighters who could aid the cause. They sought out King Oileus thinking he would join them.”

A pause.

“But the King…declared himself too old. So, he sent his son in his place.”

You stared at the boy.

His son? The poor Prince looked no older than eight.

This was a child who should have been at home learning to wield wooden swords against practice dummies—not standing before those who had spent the last ten years bathing in blood.

You glanced at Nestor, your expression unreadable. “And what did the Greeks do when they realized who had arrived?”

Nestor sighed, the weight of time heavy in his voice.

“He was—is too young. The generals agreed he was not yet ready for battle, so he was placed under my care to continue his studies and train.”

You nodded in understanding, your eyes flickering toward the boy once more.

Nestor hesitated before adding, “My son, Antilochus, took him under his wing.” His voice softened, grief creeping into the edges of it. “He taught him well. Would have been proud to see him run today.”

That gave you pause.

Antilochus....

A soft, almost apologetic smile tugged at your lips. You knew what that meant.

Antilochus had perished in the same battle that had claimed Achilles—died sacrificing himself to save Nestor when Memnon’s son, Ptolemaeus, had descended upon the old Greek King.

You could almost see him: Antilochus beaming with pride as he guided Ajax, treating him as a little brother. And now? He was gone.

A familiar ache pressed into your chest.

You exhaled quietly before shifting your gaze back to the young boy with a softened gaze. “You wish to compete?” you finally ask.

He hesitates for for only a second before nodding, squaring his shoulders as if to make himself seem taller. "Y-yes my Lady," he said, voice small but steady.

A quiet hum left your lips as you studied him. There was fire in his eyes; a hunger for recognition, for a chance to prove himself despite his age.

You glanced at Nestor who gave you a patient look. Then, your gaze drifted to Penelope, who watched with faint amusement and crossed arms as if she already knew what you were about to say.

A slow smile pulled at your lips.

"Then you shall run," you said simply.

A flash of delight spread across the boy’s face. He bowed his head quickly, stepping back into the line of competitors with a barely-contained grin.

Your gaze lingered on him for a moment longer before shifting back to Nestor.

"I suppose it wouldn’t be fair to simply call him Ajax when we already have one." You tilted your head toward the much larger Ajax standing a few paces away. "We’ll need to differentiate them somehow."

At that, the older Ajax lets out a small scoff. "Shouldn't be difficult to tell the difference with his size," he mused, arms crossed over his broad chest.

A thoughtful hum left you.

"Then let it be known," you said, voice carrying over, "that from this day forth, he shall be called Ajax the Less. And you? Ajax the Great."

Murmurs of approval rippled through the crowd. Even older Ajax gave an approving nod as if acknowledging the names to be fitting.

Young Ajax perked up in excitement, his lips parting slightly before he quickly bowed his head. “Thank you! Thank you so much!”

You inclined your head in response before motioning toward the runners. “Let the race begin!”

The boy was fast.

Surprisingly so.

As soon as the footrace commenced, Ajax the Less darted forward with an agility that shocked many. He was quick—his light frame allowing him to weave through his competitors with ease, feet seeming to barely touch the ground.

His pace was matched only by Penelope whose longer strides carried her forward effortlessly. The two of them ran neck and neck, kicking up dust as they sprinted, neither willing to relent.

Your lips twitched in amusement as you watched the spectacle unfold.

Thetis, seated beside you, leaned in slightly. "Your Captain is quite skilled," she murmured, watching Penelope with a hint of approval.

You exhaled a quiet laugh. "She is Ithaca’s Queen for a reason."

Down on the field the race was reaching its climax. The men roared in excitement as Ajax the Less pushed himself harder, his arms pumping as he ran, determination written across his face.

But then just as victory seemed within his grasp—

A loose strap on his sandal caught his foot.

He tumbled forward, sand and dust kicking up around him as he fell.

The boy scrambled, trying to push himself up, but it was too late—Penelope had already crossed the finish line. Disappointment flashed across his face as his small hands clenched into fists against the ground.

To his surprise Penelope turned back. A hush settled over the field as she walked over, kneeling down to offer her hand.

“Come now,” she with an easy grin, voice light with amusement. “I had to use every ounce of my energy just to keep up with you. Let’s not keep them waiting.”

Ajax blinked up at her with stunned admiration. "You really mean that?" his voice was hushed as if afraid to believe it.

Penelope chuckled. "Of course."

A grin slowly stretched across his face as he took her hand. She helped him to his feet, brushing some of the dirt off his shoulders.

The sight of the young boy standing beside one of Greece’s most formidable warriors—one towering over the other—earned a round of applause and laughter.

Up on the podium Thetis sighed. "Most would have left him in his despair."

You smiled faintly, watching as the boy beamed, standing a little taller now despite his loss.

"Yes," you murmured, "but Penelope is not most."

You suddenly gestured for Ajax to come forward. “Come. Sit with us.”

He stood frozen, eyes darting between you, the podium, and the imposing figure of Thetis beside you. Then, with all the excitement of a child barely containing himself, he rushed forward, nearly tripping over his own feet as he hurried up the steps.

He dropped into the other seat beside you, his hands gripping the armrests as he tried to compose himself, his wide snaggle-toothed smile a welcome sight.

And so, the games continued.

*･:*:★☽✧⚔️✧☾★:*:･*

Diomedes and Ajax the Great had just finished stepping forward to greet you with a respectful nod, turning their attention to the temporary arena for the next event—Armed Combat.

"Pay attention," you offer little Ajax a slight smirk. "There is much to learn, even when it is just a contest for recognition and prizes."

The boy nodded so fervently his curls bounced.

As the contenders prepared for the dual a familiar voice called your name.

Briseis.

She weaved through the gathered men and up the steps, sliding into the space beside you with an easy grace.

“I thought you’d want an update,” she whisper. “Mostly just small things; the men are still drinking and a few fights broke out, the usual.” Then her lips curled slightly in amusement. “And of course you know I just had to find some...gossip.”

You snorted. "What have you heard now?"

Briseis grinned. "Oh nothing too scandalous this time—though I did hear that some of the older generals are grumbling about how unfairly young and beautiful their Ithaca's Commander is."

You rolled your eyes while Thetis outright laughed.

Before you could respond the teen gaze trailed over to Ajax the Less, seeming to finally register his presence.

“Oh?” Briseis quirked a brow, folding her arms as she studied the wide-eyed child sitting stiff as a board. “And who is this?”

He visibly short-circuited.

The poor boy turned the color of a ripe pomegranate. His mouth opened but no words escaped, only a choked sound somewhere between a squeak and a cough. He stared at Briseis as though she had descended from Olympus itself.

An unimpressed but amused look sat on the eighteen year old's face. “Charming. And what is your name little one?"

Ajax the Less swallowed thickly.

"I—uh—y-you—" He squeezed his eyes shut in frustration before blurting, "Ajax! Ajax the Less!"

Thetis nudges you lightly, her amusement clear as she whispered, "Your new little shadow might be in love."

You hummed in agreement as the horn sounded across the camp. The has match started.

Diomedes and Ajax the Great was fierce; both showcasing raw strength and years of skill honed in battle. The clash of metal rang out as the two men circled each other, their movements calculated and sharp.

Even from your vantage point you could see the tension behind each swing and parry. Diomedes was quick and precise; a man blessed by Athena herself. Ajax had sheer power; each of his swings carried enough weight to cleave a man in two if landed properly.

The dual stretched longer than expected—neither willing to surrender an inch of ground. Blades met time and time again, sweat beginning to glisten on their brows.

But in the end there would be no victor. Before either could be seriously wounded the fight was halted and both men were awarded prizes in honor of their prowess.

Penelope, deciding to sit out the rest of the games and joined the podium, leans back in her seat. "Finally," she mutters. "I was beginning to think they'd die of exhaustion before admitting defeat."

You smirked. "You sound disappointed."

"I would have won in half the time."

Briseis laughed from the space beside you she had squeezed into, pressing close in the already cramped chair. "Oh? Then perhaps you should have competed."

"Perhaps I should have."

The next few events passed quickly.

Sixth event—Discus Throw—ended with Polypoetes securing victory. Penelope scoffed at the result.

"You could have bested him easily," she commented, shooting you a sideways glance.

You grinned at her praise. "How fortunate for them I chose not to participate..."

Archery was the seventh event. An event that proved to be frustrating for the Queen of Ithaca.

Penelope let out a long-suffering sigh as she watched the competitors fumble with their shots. "You or Odysseus could have won this blindfolded. To be frank it's pathetic. Gods! How are they this bad?!"

"They're trying their best," Briseis says, though her amused smirk betrayed her true feelings.

"Well their best is dreadful," Penelope huffs. "I should go down there and teach them myself." She points toward a competitor who loosed an arrow that barely grazed the target. “Look at that! It’s as if he’s afraid the bowstring will bite him.”

You had to bite back laughter.

The eighth and final event was the Spear Throw.

And honestly? It was less a competition and more a formality. As Commander of the Greek forces, Agamemnon was given the victory out of respect for his position.

You, Briseis, and Penelope were less than thrilled.

Briseis wrinkled her nose while Penelope scoffed. "How convenient."

You merely exhaled, choosing to remain silent rather than indulge your irritation.

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ukelele-boy · 5 months ago

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(this was posted Dec 2021 in the toa discord but I finally found it again cause my brain wouldn't stop looking for it) it's basically some timeline digging I did. I know other toa fans have done their own timelines so I wanna crosscheck. I only put 1-2 hours into this and it was a long time ago.

-------------

Ok I've dated the ademtus and apollo thing to before troy fell in 1200BCE, since ademtus' son, Eumelus, was in the trojan war (greek side). If we assume he is pretty young to fight in the war(20-40), then we can date the apollo ademtus thing to maybe 50-60 years before? But king laomedon, who was the king that apollo and Poseidon served, was the father of king priam who was an old man by the trojan war. So if king priam is like 60-70, we can assume that apollo served under laomedon around 80 years ago. Which makes sense because heracules was around for both laomedon and also to save adetmus' wife. But this means that apollo got turned mortal twice in the span of like 30 years and then 50 years later had to listen to zeus and let troy fall due to fate and lost his two sons.

It also means that the failed rebellion happened first, then apollo becomes a god, jives for like 15 years and then has that drama with ascelpusis mom, has a kid called ascelpius who dies at 14-15 to zeus, and then he gets turned mortal again.

If Hya is a prince of sparta (founded in 900BCE) and we could say he lived at it's peak (around 500 BCE), which means apollo met hya maybe 700 years after the trojan war.

And then around 900 years later Rome falls.

#mine #lester papadopoulos #trials of apollo #pjo apollo #Timeline #Meta

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gemsofgreece · 4 months ago

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Hey! This is a linguistic ask, I think? I actually have another question as well, but since it has nothing to do with this topic, I'll send a separate ask. Anyway.

Could you tell me the meaning of βασιλεύοντες? When I looked it up, it appeared that this word is plural and that it would be translated more literally as "reigning ones". The pages showed me that it can be written as something like basileus. The specific phrase is "παρεγένοντο δὲ εἰς Σπάρτην ἐπὶ τὸν Ἑλένης γάμον οἱ βασιλεύοντε ς Ἑλλάδος. From what I understand, Ἑλλάδος is Hellas, i.e. Greece. So βασιλεύοντες Ἑλλάδος would be something like "those who reign over Greece". In the English translation, it's usually "Kings of Greece". However, if it's indeed basileis, from what I have researched this term is not literally "kings", since, for example, basileus/basileis was used for Byzantine emperors and for other authority figures other than kings in Ancient Greece, such as certain types of leaders. With that, my question is the following: does this word necessarily imply royalty or at least something equivalent to royalty in the society in question? Or, for example, can it be used to designate a noble? If it's exclusively royalty, it could apply to a prince (since in this context it's being applied to princes, including). Another intriguing thing is that one of the characters designated as such is actually illegitimate. In case the characters so named are needed for the interpretation, this is about Helen's suitors and in this source they are: Odysseus, Diomedes, Antilochus, Agapenor, Sthenelus, Amphimachus, Thalpius, Meges, Amphilochus, Menestheus, Schedius, Epistrophus, Polyxenus, Peneleos, Leitus, Ajax son of Oileus, Ascalaphus, Ialmenus, Elephenor, Eumelus, Polypoetes, Leonteus, Podalirius, Machaon, Philoctetes, Eurypylus, Protesilaus, Menelaus, Telamonian Ajax, Teucer, Patroclus. The source is Pseudo-Apollodorus' Library.

The other term that is present in The Iliad and is διογενὲς, which can be written as diogenes. The translation, from what I researched, would be something like "sprung from Zeus", "Zeus-descendent" and similar things. While researching if this meaning was literal or could have another possible connotation, I found the following suggestions:

The term describes characters who have Zeus in their bloodline in some way.

The term describes heroes in general in a complimentary way, regardless of their association with Zeus.

The term describes characters of royalty, as royalty comes from Zeus.

In the English translations, Caroline Alexander translated it as descended from Zeus, Zeus-descended, seed of Zeus and god-cherished (it's the same word in all cases), Martin Hammond translated it as Lord, Richmond Lattimores translated it as illustrious and Robert Fagles translated it as Prince. My doubt arose precisely because the translators seemed to have different interpretations and so did the academics (which is where I got the 3 theories suggested above from. It was from articles). Lattimore seemed to interpret it as a way of designating praise, Fagles seemed to interpret it as something that designates royalty, Hammond seemed to interpret it as something that involves status and Alexander simply went with the most literal idea, although in the case of god-cherished she may have interpreted it as designating someone divinely favored (in the sense of support). In The Iliad, this term is used in several characters, such as Achilles, Odysseus, Patroclus, Menelaus, Telamonian Ajax, Euaimon, etc. In The Odyssey, it's used with Odysseus.

I tried to research to see if perhaps some Greek scholar had given their own interpretation, but I couldn't find anything, probably because it hasn't been translated into other languages. So I'm curious if there was any Greek professional who suggested some possible meaning for this term? Is it to designate heroes? Is it a compliment? Is it literally someone who is descended from Zeus? Is the character royalty?

Many thanks in advance!

Hello! Welcome to Greek semantics haha

a) Βασιλεύοντες

Βασιλεύοντες is the plural masculine present participle of the verb "βασιλεύω" (basileúo) which means "I reign". Consequently, it means indeed "the men who reign over". Participles are extremely important in Greek and they replace common nouns very often. In this case, it could have been βασιλείς (basileís), kings, and it would not make any difference in the meaning of the text whatsoever. The choice could purely be aesthetical, personal, even instictual, without much thought put into it. Of course, the participle offers one additional information; time, those are the men who are currently reigning.

Who and what can a basileus (king) be in Greek history is pretty fluid. In general, it means the person who rules a particular state or region, no matter how small or vast. It is not always that or just that though. In Mycenaean Greek, the same word (in the form of something like quasireu) was to describe a nobleman of authority but quite probably not the king. This was the anax. The anax barely makes it to the early Archaic Homeric Greek. While various characters are basileis (most are the ones you are inquiring about) and by that time it really means kings, only Agamemnon is referred to as anax if I remember correctly, and Priam from the Trojans.

So, here's how that worked more or less. All of them were kings to their respective regions. Hellas and Argos (Central and South Greece, at the time) were always divided in smaller kingdoms where a chieftain, a warrior king ruled. These small kingdoms were technically the predecessors of the Greek city-states. Agamemnon was a basileus like everyone else. He could not really meddle at the inside matters of, say, Ithaca instead of Odysseus or Phthia instead of Achilles. However, when an issue greater than each's inside issues arose, when multiple basileis had to face a challenge together, when there was need for a common policy, then Agamemnon had the first say amongst them and he would take the final decision. He was the anax, the "king supreme" of Hellas and Argos. (Around that time both Hellas and Argos start being used interchangeably to define all of central and south Greece too and by the time of pseudo-Apollodorus Hellas was by far the most prevalent term to use.) The usage of anax soon faded after Homer. It interestingly made a comeback in Byzantine Christian context later. For example, the Virgin Mary is sometimes called "Ánassa", Queen (of Heavens). Derivative words from anax are present in modern Greek, i.e anáktoron, royal palace.

After the drop of anax, basileus was the only and general word for king. In Greek it resolutely does not matter how vast his land and how many people or ethnicities the basileus rules over as long as he is the supreme ruler in his region and answers to no one. This is why in actuality the obvious distinction between king and emperor that exists in western European languages are nowhere near as clear in Greek. In fact the Greek word for emperor αυτοκράτωρ (autokrátor) was a term coined in the Roman period to translate the Latin term imperator (commander, used for the Roman emperors). Αυτοκράτωρ means "the one who has all the power to himself". In other words, it was not a word that held a distinct meaning than that of the king. It was a coined term to emphasize on the power of the emperor, who in the eyes of the Greeks was... a king, but a strong one. This is why there are instances of the title ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΑΥΤΟΚΡΑΤ��Ρ (basileus autokrator). It techinically means "the king of all power". After the division of the Roman Empire and the fall of the western part, Greeks just kept calling the emperor βασιλέα (accusative case), as was their way. Especially once Greek became the official language in 610 BC, this was the official title for the emperor; Βασιλεύς Ρωμαίων. Modern Greek has probably been influenced by the western perception in this and treats βασιλιάς and αυτοκράτορας (the casual modern nominative cases) as different types of royalty and power like in the west, however this wasn't the case up until the Middle Ages.

Now, you are also right that sometimes the word addressed noble people without them being strictly royalty. It could be if the person had the utmost authority for a considerable area or if they were just royal, as in kin to an actual king or connected to them. It has always been even used as a compliment for commoners as well, "kingly". This belief has very old origins, certainly already in early archaic times. Someone kind and civil in their behaviour, someone with grace, bravery and other virtues, someone beautiful was thought to descend from royal genealogy or was praised as "fit for a king", "fit for a queen", even "fit for a prince or princess". This association never went extinct, it very much exists in modern Greek folklore. Furthermore, the names Basíleios (Basil, kingly), Basileía and Basiliké (queenly, royal) are some of the most common in Greece.

b) διογενές

Here it would be useful to have the full phrase you encountered this to know how literally or figuratively the word is used. And are you sure it's διογενές and not διογενής? Because the former is neuter. Both ε and η are transliterated as e in English.

If it's literal then yes, we are talking about a descendant of Zeus or something made by Zeus.

If it's figurative, then the explanation of this word will be consistent with the last paragraph above. Here I invite you to consider whether you have also stumbled onto the word δῖος (díos) that describes Homeric heroes several times, most of all Odysseus. And perhaps you know that Διογένης was a pretty common Ancient Greek name. Okay, keep this thought in mind for later.

Zeus' name ultimately derives from the PIE Sky Father god Dyeus. Its root can be better seen in the conjugation of Zeus' name (Greek proper nouns have declensions too). In Latin characters, it goes like Zeus Dios Dii Dia Zeu. Now, this di- root that has PIE origins meant "shine, brilliance, skylight". It is why the most important god is called as such because after all he is the God of the Heavens, THE God. (Other sky deities like Ouranós, unfortunately transliterated to Uranus, were later developments as Greeks were expanding their perception of their theogony).

So, δῖος means something like "divinely luminous", "god-like", "godly", "brilliant". It kind of means all those things. This is why Lattimore translated it as "illustrious", because it has the meaning of "great, renowned" and it is also through the same reasoning and a similar etymological concept, as it derives from a word that means shine, bright in Latin. Illustrious though misses a little on the divine connotations and the connection to Zeus in comparison. BTW no I did not forget this is about διογενές (diogenés) instead but the second part of the word is very easy to explain. In short, in this context it means birthed, produced, descended. So since δῖος and Zeus have the same etymology, you can say that it either means produced / descended from Zeus (literally or figuratively) or "made of (Zeus) divine brilliance". The most important thing here is that it does not matter much. Yep. The reason it does not matter is because if it's figurative then it absolutely designates praise. Godly. Divinely brilliant. God-luminous. A proper descendant of Zeus. Not that he certainly is. But he is magnificent enough that he could be. That's the point of these words. So whether Alexander's "seed of Zeus" is poetically accurate or not depends on the context of the full phrase, which I do not have.

Coming back to the beginning, a proof that it was often meant as praise and not always as a literal conviction that the character in question necessarily came from the (admittedly massive) genealogy of Zeus is how common the name Diogenes was in the real Ancient Greek world. All these common people did not actually claim ancestry from Zeus or that they were made of his divine skylight. It was a figurative form of praise, like names usually bear positive connotations.

Now, Hammond's and Fagles' Lord and Prince are way too liberal translations (another way to say they were wrong), however their reasonings are not all that far off. It's not that the terms δῖος and διογενής-ές designate royalty or status but they were definitely praises more frequently associated to nobility and royalty. This is because Ancient Greeks thought that their legendary heroes and kings and noblemen were superior to the mere humans that they were. After all many of them seemed to actually descend from gods according to the Greek myths. They were imagined as mortal humans but with some presumed distant divine intervention in their genealogy that made them more glorious human beings. This is a recurring positive association to nobility and royalty, which in turn evolved into this association of virtuous, gifted common people with a presumed relation to nobility and royalty that I described in the first answer. So, yes, it was commonly used as praise for royalty but no, it did not in itself mean royalty.

From a figurative perspective, Lattimore's "illustrious" is the closest interpretation however it misses on the divine aspect of it, which is the most important. It is unlikely you will find various interpretations from Greek professionals because the understanding of the word is pretty unanimous in Greece. Διογενής as an adjective is not in use in Greek anymore probably due to its direct association to Zeus, however there is the just as ancient synonym θεογενής [descended from god(s)] which also produces proper names such as Θεογένης or Θεαγένης, which mean the same thing except it comes from the most generic term for the god θεός and not specifically Zeus the Sky god (which are interestingly believed to come from different PIE roots despite sounding so similar). The connotations of it being overwhelmingly figurative and designating praise are clear to us because such adjectives associated to divinity ie θεϊκός, θείος meaning divine, god-like etc are very common in Greek and are used very liberally and expressively all the time.

The reason I focused way more on the figurative explanation is because the fact that we get four so different interpretations probably means the context of the phrase wasn't that of a character that we already know that was an offspring of Zeus. And because the literal meaning is so much easier lol

Okay for you and anyone who made it this far, congrats, you made it through a massive post with Greek semantics!

#greece #ancient greece #homer #ancient greek #etymology #greek #greek language #languages #linguistics #langblr #language stuff #greek culture #ask #babyrdie #tw long text #pseudo-apollodorus

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false-guinevere · 1 year ago

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Does Jason even deserve the demonization? Ever since I found Eumelos' Korinthiaka and other versions, I can't help but think this is another Ovid/Medusa...

Honestly it can be hard to say, though I will say while there was clearly changes, I think it was more about just changes to the story over the centuries as well as completing claims from different regions. Different cities/regions would often portray myths and the gods different depending because they had different goals or values.

Kind of like the situation with Theseus, where the Athenians had motive to portray him in a more positive light so accounts there usually have him being forced to leave Ariadne while other version usually just have him abandon her by choice or forget about her. Or like how the Odyssey seems to have Clytemnestra’s big crime just be adultery while Aegisthus does the killing, but by the time of Oresteia, Clytemnestra is the sole killer of Agamemnon (and Aegisthus is a impotent loser) and that’s her big crime Orestes kills her for. Athenian plays especially tended to have a lot of Athenian propaganda and ideals. The Oresteia literally ends with the creation of the Athenian legal system.

And there is the popular theory Euripides might very well have been the one to popularize the verison where it’s Medea who kills her kids. And both Eumelus and Simonides have Jason and Medea as king and queen of Corinth. When it comes to myths where they can vary so significantly, I’m personally of the opinion to just kind of pick and choose what interests you more. Medea is one of my favorite plays so I really like the version of the story, but the other versions are also interesting and should be explored more.

#gawrkin #Medea #Jason

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volturimaster · 3 days ago

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so doing a bit of background/historical research for aro and i have discovered some interesting things.

looking at 1300 greece it's not actually considered anciet greece history that didn't start until 1100 bc which is like 200 years after aro was even born let alone a vampire. his era is considered the greek bronze period the late bronze period that was called specifically Mycenaean Greece. which quick summary for wiki:

Mycenaean Greece (or the Mycenaean civilization) was the last phase of the Bronze Age in ancient Greece, spanning the period from approximately 1750 to 1050 BC. It represents the first advanced and distinctively Greek civilization in mainland Greece with its palatial states, urban organization, works of art, and writing system. The Mycenaeans were mainland Greek peoples who were likely stimulated by their contact with insular Minoan Crete and other Mediterranean cultures to develop a more sophisticated sociopolitical culture of their own.

so while not considered technically ancient greek in historical timeline it's where it all really started to form that would advance to the ancient greek era.

i also think i found which city i want aro to be from and that is Patras

The city of Patras has an important history of four thousand years. Patras has been inhabited since the prehistoric age and constituted an important centre of the Mycenean era (which is what era aro is from!!).

and some fun mytho/legend stuff about this city

The foundation of Patras goes back to prehistoric times, the legendary account being that Eumelus, having been taught by Triptolemus how to grow grain in the rich soil of the Glaucus valley, established three townships, Aroe (i.e. "ploughland"), Antheia ("the flowery"), and Mesatis ("the middle settlement") united by the common worship of Artemis Triclaria at her shrine on the river Meilichus.

Mythology further tells us that after the Dorian invasion, a group of Achaeans from Laconia, led by the eponymous Patreus, established a colony. The Achaeans, having strengthened and enlarged Aroe, called it Patrae, as the exclusive residence of the ruling families, and it was recognized as one of the twelve Achaean cities. During antiquity, Patras remained a farming region but in Classical times it became an important port.

this also tells that city worshiped heavily on artemis since she is mention by name and looking further into that i find

Laphria is the Pre-Greek "mistress of the animals" at Delphi and Patras. There was a custom to throw animals alive into the annual fire of the fest. The festival at Patras was introduced from Calydon and this relates Artemis to the Greek heroine Atalanta who symbolizes freedom and independence. Other epithets that relate Artemis to the animals are Amarynthia and Kolainis.

Laphria, the mistress of the animals (Pre-Greek name) in many cults, especially in central Greece, Phocis and Patras. "Laphria" was the name of the festival. The characteristic rite was the annual fire and there was a custom to throw animals alive in the flames during the fest. The cult of "Laphria" at Patras was transferred from the city Calydon of Aetolia In a legend during the Calydonian boar hunt the fierce-huntress Atalanta was the first who wounded the boar. Atalanta was a Greek heroine, symbolizing the free nature and independence

Limnatis, of the marsh and the lake, at Patras, Ancient Messene and many local cults. During the festival, the Messenian young ladies were violated. Cymbals have been found around the temple, indicating that the festival was celebrated with dances.[

further detail for laphria which was a festival for artemis

Laphria (Ancient Greek: τὰ Λάφρια) was an ancient Greek religious festival in honour of the goddess Artemis, held every year in Patras. There was a sanctuary of Artemis Laphria on the acropolis of Patras. The sanctuary had an image of Artemis Laphria, that was brought there from Calydon in Aetolia after it was laid waste by Augustus. Every year, the people held a "festival of the Laphria" in the goddess's honour "which was peculiar to their place". They made a barrier of tall logs round the altar, "still green", so that the stockade would not burn. They piled the driest wood on the altar, for kindling, and then smoothed the approaches to the pyre by laying earth on the altar steps. On the first day, the people walked in procession of the "greatest grandeur" for the goddess. A virgin priestess brought up the rear, riding in a chariot which was drawn by tame yoked deer. The next day, living animals are sacrificed, including edible birds, boars, deer, gazelles, wolves and bears, but also fruit from trees. The altar was set on fire. Animals forced out by the first leap of the flames, or escaping at full tilt were thrown back into the fire, to their death, by those who had brought them. There was no record of anyone being injured by the animals.

so yeah… i hope you guys enjoyed my circle down into the wiki pages about history and ending up in mythology territory as i slowly piece together aro's time as a human c:

#𝖔𝖓𝖊 𝖙𝖔𝖚𝖈𝖍 𝖙𝖔 𝖐𝖓𝖔𝖜 𝖆𝖑𝖑 [ headcanons ]

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