#episode of bardock

[gorillageek27]

Jia: *signing* here you are kong, i have brought you more food that you detest.

Kong: Seriously, kid, if you don't start bringing me meat, I'm literally going to shit bricks.

Jia: *drops a stone*

Kong: THAT IS A ROCK!

[tyote]

[duhragonball]

Episode of Bardock (2011)

In 2011, Naho Oishi published a three-chapter manga entitled Dragon Ball: Episode of Bardock.  Later that same year, it was adapted into an anime short which was premiered at the Jump Festa convention.  A year later, it was released as a bonus feature in the video game Dragon Ball Z: For Kinect.  But I’m pretty sure everyone just watched it on YouTube instead, because that game sucked. 

As I recall, the purpose of Episode of Bardock was to help promote a toy line that included, among other things, a Super Saiyan Bardock figure.  Between 1997 and 2013, there wasn’t a lot of new Dragon Ball content to be found, and even though 2008 saw the premiere of Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!, it was generally understood that this was just a nostalgia one-shot, and not a comeback for the franchise.  So around 2007-2012, there seemed to be a lot more indulgence for “what if” content.  Vegeta and Broly got Super Saiyan 3 forms in the Raging Blast games. The Dragon Ball Heroes CCG game started up around this time, and it played with a lot of what-if scenarios and forms.  And Dragon Ball Online introduced a ton of new lore set 200 years after the end of DBZ, including Trunks’ service in the Time Patrol.

So an official Super Saiyan Bardock toy probably wasn’t a big surprise at the time, although it would have been pretty surreal to see in, say, 2004.  Fans would make what-if art like that all the time, but now Toei was doing it.  That may be why they wanted an official manga and anime story to tie into the product, so that fans wouldn’t assume this was some sort of bootleg thing. 

The trick is, how do you make Super Saiyan Bardock a thing?  Everyone remembers him from his classic TV Special, but he dies at the end of it.  He certainly couldn’t have turned Super Saiyan before that, or otherwise he would have changed the course of history.  So what do you do?  Naho Oishi’s answer was simple: Time Travel.

The special opens with the climactic scene from Father of Goku.  Bardock’s confronting Frieza in the upper atmosphere of Planet Vegeta, and Frieza explains that he’s begun to find the Saiyans too bothersome to keep around, so he’s going to wipe them all out.  Oh, and also, he wouldn’t want to have to deal with that pesky Super Saiyan legend. 

So the planet explodes, and Bardock dies in the blast... and then he wakes up in bed?!  What the hell? 

Bardock is confused, but his benefactors have no answers for him.  Ipana (left) is the village healer, and he uses a secret ointment to heal Bardock’s injuries.  His son, Berry (right) was the one who found Bardock at the edge of the woods, and brought him back to the village for treatment.  According to Ipana, they’re on the Planet Plant.

So Bardock quickly deduces that he somehow went back in time.  He’s never seen these aliens before, but he knows that Planet Vegeta used to be called “Plant” before the Saiyans conquered it from the Tuffles.  And the scenery looks just like Planet Vegeta.  On top of that, Ipana’s “secret” ointment is identical to the fluid used in the Medical Machines by Frieza’s organization.  As impossible as it sounds, Bardock has been flung into the distant past, before the Medical Machines, before the Saiyans came to this planet, before even the Tuffles arrived on this planet.

This raises several important questions, which never get answered.

1) How did Bardock go back in time? It’s implied that Frieza’s blast did it somehow, except that’s ridiculous.  Frieza destroyed all sorts of things, including everyone else on Planet Vegeta that day.  Are we saying they all went back in time too?

2) What happened to the Plantians?  Bardock has never even heard of them before, indicating that they were long gone by the time the Saiyans settled on this planet.  I always liked this little detail, because it implies that the Tuffles wiped out the Plantians at some point, much as the Saiyans destroyed the Tuffles later on.  This neatly wraps up the moral ambiguity that surrounds Tuffle lore.  Sometimes the Tuffles are presented as innocent victims of the Saiyans, and other times they’re shown to be remorseless conquerors.  Episode of Bardock suggests that there’s an uncomfortable truth somewhere in the middle.

3) Who repaired Bardock’s uniform?  It was all shredded at the start of this short.  And then it completely disintegrated as Frieza’s attack hit him. 

But now it’s fine.  The Plantians might have fixed it, but how would they have even managed to find all the pieces?  I’m imagining Berry combing the area with a tweezers.

4) What happened to Bardock’s psychic powers?  These are never mentioned or referenced in this short, but it’s obviously a sequel to Father of Goku, where Bardock had psychic powers.

Now, I’m not necessarily complaining about any of these things.  There’s simply no way for Bardock to investigate any of these questions.  No one, past or present, knows how this happened to Bardock, so there’s no one to ask.  I have a lot of questions about the history that played out between this era and the destruction of Planer Vegeta, but Episode of Bardock isn’t long enough to answer them.  This is just A Thing That Happened, and Bardock has to deal with it.  And part of dealing with it means he has to accept that he may never understand it.  Life’s like that sometimes.

The loss of his psychic powers is kind of annoying, but then again, the way he got the psychic powers never made a lot of sense in the first place, so losing them without explanation isn’t exactly unusual here.  You can make up a bunch of timey-wimey nonsense to rationalize it.  For example, every flashback Bardock has to the events of Father of Goku is chronologically in the future, so technically he’s still having visions of things yet to come, even if they’re just his own memories now.  So maybe he still has the psychic foresight, but it’s no longer relevant.  But that’s just me spouting fan theories.  The source material is silent about this, so I’m just going to assume that Naho Oishi quietly dropped the psychic powers because he didn’t need them for his story and he didn’t think anyone would mind. 

Besides, Bardock doesn’t have time to investigate his predicament, because suddenly a pair of aliens show up in a spaceship that resembles Frieza’s.  They attack the village, claiming the entire planet for their leader, Chilled, the Space Pirate. 

Bardock kills them both with ease.  The Plantians hail him as their savior, but Bardock refuses their gratitude, telling them that he doesn’t care if they live or die.  Then he buggers off and takes shelter in a cave. 

But Berry tracks him down and brings him a basket of food.  Bardock gets angry over it, but he hasn’t eaten in like, negative 3000 years, so he’s too hungry to turn down free grub.

Over the next few days, Berry brings more food to Bardock, and gradually, Bardock warms up to the kid, eventually letting him get close enough to sit beside him, and Bardock even shares some of his food with him.  He even tells Berry his name, something Berry had asked about the day he woke up.

Meanwhile, Chilled hasn’t heard from his henchmen for ten days, so he decides to go to Planet Plant to investigate in person.

He and his crew arrive posing as the Space Police, and ask about two “evil men” that might have come to this planet.  The villagers explain that Bardock killed them already, so Chilled is very interested in “thanking” him.

But Berry suspects their intentions, and he goes to Bardock to warn him, and to ask him to save the villagers. 

Bardock tries to insist that this doesn’t concern him, but then he has flashbacks (flash-forwards?) to the time when he went to Planet Meat and found his whole crew dead at the hands of Dodoria.  And that seems to motivate him to get involved.

Sure enough, Berry was right, and Chilled starts attacking the village.  You’d think he would have waited until he found out where Bardock was, but I get the sense that Chilled is a lot more impulsive than Frieza.

So Bardock shows up to clean house, but when he sees Chilled he flips his shit and starts shouting “Frieza!” at him, because they basically look alike.  Chilled overpowers him, and says he has no idea what he’s babbling about.

And while Bardock is realizing that Chilled must be one of Frieza’s ancestors, Berry runs up to try to help, only for Chilled to blow him away with some big ki attack. 

And that’s the last straw.  It takes a full minute, but Bardock gets so frustrated over his failure to stop Frieza or Chilled, and his failure to save the Saiyans or Berry, that he flips his shit and turns Super Saiyan.

Meanwhile, Chilled has never seen or heard of this before, so he doesn’t think it means anything.  But I think we all know where this is going.

One major criticism of this special is that it just repeats the same old formula.  And to that I would respond: What did you expect?  There was a joke about “a Super Saiyan bargain sale” back in 1993.  In Dragon Ball Z.  Seriously, thirty years ago, Vegeta was griping that there were getting to be too many Super Saiyans in this show.  I mean, this is like watching an episode of Naruto and saying “They’d better not have any adolescent ninjas in this one, I’m so sick of that.”   Or turning on Spongebob and seriously getting annoyed to see the Chum Bucket.

Seriously, if you’re burned out on Super Saiyans, you need to find something else to watch.  I’ve seen too many embittered fans who think that any minute now this franchise is going to ditch the Saiyan characters and focus on Launch or Yamcha or whoever.  And I’d be up for that, honestly, but it’s not going to happen. 

I’ve also seen Bardock fans complain that this special (along with every other presentation of the character) somehow changes or diminishes Bardock.  In their eyes, the Father of Goku special got it right, and everything that folowed-- the dub of Father of Goku, Episode of Bardock, Dragon Ball Minus, and the Broly movie-- all of that made Bardock a little different, and therefore bad. 

Here’s the thing: That happens to every character who appears in more than one story.  I remember reading a fan-comic that spoofed Bardock by having all the different versions of him appear in the same space and talk to one another.  So you’d have Funimation dub Bardock talking about redemption and Minus Bardock being a loving father, etc.  And honestly, I had trouble keeping them all straight, because they’re more alike than different.  If someone made a comic like that about Batman, how many different versions of Batman do you think there would be?  Wait, I forgot, they already did one of those:

Superman: The Man of Steel #37 had tons and tons of different Batmen in it, each one based on the stylings of different writers and artists from the past.  And this comic came out in 1994.  There’s been at least seven or eight new variations of Batman since then.

And the same thing is happening with Bardock.  You don’t have to like every new Bardock story, but I think it’s kind of silly to clutch your pearls whenever they add new lore like “He loves his wife” or “He doesn’t hate everything.”

Where was I?  Oh, right.  So this special isn’t exactly doing anything novel, but I think it does make for a nice demonstration of what Super Saiyans are really all about.  The Saiyans define themselves as a warrior race, but without compassion for other, weaker beings, their pursuit of battle is hollow.  Bardock was doomed to fail in Father of Goku because he trusted that his enemies would always be weaker than himself, while Frieza would never betray him as long as he followed his orders.  Then he got “cursed” with the truth.  Frieza would betray the Saiyans in spite of their loyalty, and there was nothing Bardock could do to stop it.  In Episode of Bardock, history repeats itself, almost literally, and Bardock finally discovers that his passions can be applied to other people.  He can care about the Plantians and fight on their behalf, and by taking up their cause, he can discover new ways to rise to the occasion. 

A lot of that gets overlooked in DBZ, because for Goku, standing up for the oppressed is kind of second nature, so there’s no chance to dwell on it.  But in Episode of Bardock, we see a character who’s an anti-hero at best, and it doesn’t take much to push him into doing the right thing.  Because what else was he going to do?  Hide in that cave and wait for Chilled to leave?  To be Saiyan is to be constantly pushed toward compassion for the weak, and those who resist that push will only suffer for their resistance.  That’s the story of Bardock.

Anyway, Bardock defeats Chilled, who somehow survives long enough to escape and send a warning to his family.  “Beware of the Saiyans who turn golden.”

And that brings us full circle.  Frieza wiped out the Saiyans because of the ancient warning from his ancestor, Chilled, but by destroying the Saiyans, he accidentally sent Bardock back in time, which was what caused Chilled’s death in the first place.  So it’s a nice little predestination paradox we have here.

Back in the past, Berry looks like he’ll be okay...

... while Bardock wanders off into the sunset.  I’m not sure where he can possibly go, since I don’t think there’s any spaceships around.  Well, it’s a 20 minute special, so it’s not like they have to have all the answers.

So I think the implication here is that Bardock didn’t just get sent back to some random moment in history.  I think he wound up going back a thousand years, and becoming the same Legendary Super Saiyan that Vegeta grew up hearing about.  You know, this happy character:

Of course, Episode of Bardock was never more than a “what-if” story in the first place, so it’s not like it’s anything close to hard canon.  Hell, Father of Goku isn’t canon either, so how could Episode of Bardock be canon?   Still, I like the idea that Bardock didn’t just die with Planet Vegeta, and that he got flung back in time to become one of the heroes of Saiyan legend. 

Of course, I put a lot of time into making a Super Saiyan OC who fills that same role, so my personal canon is that Bardock went back to 3000 years before Planet Vegeta’s destruction, and he became the Legendary Super Saiyan of that millennium.  Basically, I adhere to a strict “once every thousand years” rule, and the Super Saiyan lineage goes like this:

3000 years ago: Bardock

2000 years ago: Chanisp

1000 years ago: Luffa

Present day: Goku. 

But that’s just my silly business.  The rest of you are free to interpret this special as you please.

It is also plausible that Bardock did not become a historical figure.  Maybe he lived and died in relative obscurity, and no one else heard about his adventure on Planet Plant.  I mean, Chilled asked his crew to warn his family, but we have no way of knowing if the word actually got out.  They might have turned renegade after Chilled’s death, or maybe their ship was destroyed in a space anomaly before they could contact anyone.  In this scenario, the Legendary Super Saiyans were their own thing, and Bardock was just a rando Super Saiyan who never got included into Saiyan folklore. It’s fun to think about. 

Anyway, that’s all we’ve got.  If you like Super Saiyan Bardock, it’s a fun little thing, but not much more than that. If you hate Super Saiyans and/or Bardock, you’re gonna have a bad time.

[roseunspindle]

What I Watched in May 2023

Good old days when Bardock was a genuinely evil Saiyan Warrior. 

It was fine, but Mewsette annoys the crap out of me.

a fun little anime, got the second volume now.

Good ‘ol team 4 star, did not even know this was a thing they’d done until I saw that they were reviewing it. Had to give it a watch. Bardock going Super over the stupidity of time travel was hilarious. 

[bardocks-tiddies]

yessssss

i don’t know if i’ve seen the fandub, ive only seen TFS’s episode of bardock. but still

teehee

[bliss-wily]

So take that as you will.

Side note: ignore the tags it’s just nonsensical ramble. I’ve been ill and when I’m ill well you’ve seen the results before if you’re looked at my page for more than a split second. My brain just doesn’t stop.

[tgoldwalker]

Death Battle the moment they come back from the dead:

[toxictac]

Soo i watched death battles new episode, was fun... but man outside of the vs debate stuff

Is it weird to say i dont like how bardock is characterise? like its not bad perse, i dont think he is quite out of character and i havent read minus or the dragon ball manga

But its weird to see him being a brute force fighter and not a more tacian fighter, i mean in his first battle againts the friza soldiers he uses tactics like incresing his power level or obscuring their vision to get the upper hand

Plus i dont like how they use the iconic pose and his signature attack, idk i think the whole idea of "trying to defy fate" is kinda lost on the animation

[nullen-void]

Raditz is such a ridiculous character.

This guy is Goku's brother. He is the last blood relation Goku has aside from his own son at that point, and he's evil. He's stronger than Goku was at the time, he's smarter than Goku, he's a link to their culture that Goku never had before and never had again, because Vegeta is a prince and has a skewed concept of Saiyan culture.

And then he dies and is never mentioned again. Not ever. He dies in his first encounter, and yeah he takes Goku with him, but they didn't even meet in the afterlife. Goku spends the next twenty episodes dead and jumping across Snake Way and we don't even get a glimpse of Raditz in HFIL below.

He could have been anyone. Raditz could have been the legendary Some Guy who's just here to do his job and--oh what's that? A wild child Saiyan? Weird, but whatever, let's kill him.

It would have made no difference. It should have been Nappa showing up to wreck shit up and then Raditz is palling around with Vegeta. They could have had a epic, emotional character arc where Raditz is struggling between loyalty to his prince and his desire to protect his baby brother, but no.

Imagine, for an instant, if Supergirl was one of Zod's minions, and she appeared in exactly one comic as a herald for Zod's arrival before Lex Luthor kills her with Kryptonite after Superman manages to beat her once. And then she's never mentioned again. That's Raditz.

It's insane, really. He's the main character's brother and they don't do anything with it. Absolutely bonkers.

(I'm not a Dragonball superfan so I don't know, did Raditz even appear in any of the movies? I know there was one where Goku's dad was the main character and another that takes place partially in the past on planet Vegeta. Does Bardock even mention Raditz? His eldest son?

Totally insane.)

[creepercraftguy]

My thoughts on BOWSER VS EGGMAN

This was easily my most hyped matchup thus far. Knowing that we were getting Bowser Vs Eggman this year, I was definitely more excited for this compared to Bardock Vs Omni-Man.

This matchup carries a fucking legacy with it. These are the two most notorious video game villains of all time, and the chance to see them actually bash against each other is something that, for Death Battle, has been a long time coming.

But was the episode good and did it live up to the hype? Let's see.

Everything is under the cut as per normal, because I will be spoiling the episode:

Okay. Short answer?

Yes.

Yes it did.

You want to know what my biggest regret for this fight was in general? The fact that I didn't think to grab a goddamn bucket of popcorn before I watched it because MY GOD.

I!

JUST!

WATCHED!

SOME!

CINEMMMAAAAA!

I'm gonna talk about this in the order that I normally talk about this, which means I'm gonna start by talking about the analysis, but...to be perfectly honest, I don't really CARE about the analysis this time, lol.

I think it's because it's honestly VERY hard to come by someone who DOESN'T know who either of these guys are and what they can do. Like I said, they're easily the two most notorious and well-known video game villains to ever exist. Even if you're not a gamer, no doubt you know who Mario and Sonic are, and by extention, you should also realistically know who Bowser and Dr. Eggman are.

With that said, I didn't really have a problem with either of these analyses besides the fact that they're a little hard to follow. They were intuitive, but it also just kind of felt like STATS STATS STATS NUMBERS MORE STATS MORE LORE STATS LORE LORE LORE!

Besides the overabundance of lore squishing and stat squishing, it's all good and kind of fun, especially in the editing.

Also, for Bowsers segment, it surprises me just how little time they spend talking about Kamek, despite how in the post-analysis, Boomstick mentions that Kamek is one of the largest reasons why Bowsers army triumphed.

And in Eggman's analysis, they brought up the Hard-Boiled Heavies and...I didn't even see them in the fight the first time I watched it.

Most of the limelight in terms of the minions was given to Kamek, Metal Sonic, Bowser Jr. and Sage, and that's kind of what I wanted anyway, but still, why bring them up if they're not going to show up?

And I expect this, and this isn't a nitpick at all, but there are several points where they talk about resources that don't really matter, because they're never actually used in the fight. They CAN use everything, but we'd be here forever if they did, it ultimately comes down to what's their best kit, and who's best kit is better.

But with that said, I will be coming back to this in the post analysis because there's something else that's kind of important that I need to mention.

Either way, what's most important to me with the analysis and post analysis is that bost combatants are respected, and made out to be as powerful as they can be, and for this battle, that was done very well.

Even listening to the stats, it didn't give me a clear indication of who was going to win in the end, and I actually think that's a good thing because it makes me more hyped for the fight.

Okay, NOW we talk about the fight! YES YES and more YESSSS!

I just want to take a moment to talk about the animator for this fight, MORO. With these analyses, I don't really talk about the actual animators behind Death Battle, because I treat all of them with an equal amount of respect, and I will only talk about the actual animator if the battle itself stands out.

And trust me. THIS stands OUT!

I said in my previous analysis of Joker Vs Giorno that I was really hoping that MORO would blow it out of the park with his battle, because that's what I cared about most of all, and holy fucking hell he DID IT and he DID IT WELL!

MORO first started working with Death Battle in Season 10, and no doubt bringing him on to work on the show was one of the best decisions that Death Battle have made in their entire run. Bill Cipher Vs Discord, Gojo Vs Makima, and Stitch Vs Rocket are just a few of his previous battles, and all of them were hype as fuck.

This one is EASILY the most hype though. The way everything happens in this fight, well...I could break it down and...you know what? I think I WILL!

Especially considering that...well, I can't speak FOR him, of course, but I get the feeling that MORO really loved animating this fight, because the thing I wanted to say about the post-analysis is that it features fully-animated scenes of the alternate outcomes, and a post-battle scene of Eggman's forces signing up for Bowser's army, which we haven't seen in YEARS.

I doubt MORO NEEDED to make these scenes, but he still did it because he cared so much about exploring these alternate outcomes, and covering everything that they discussed in the analysis, so they could go over all of them in the post analysis.

Because there are so many ways this fight could have gone, and thanks to this gigachad of an animator, we got to see all of them.

Okay, but the fight itself, and what we DID see in the MAIN sequence. Yeah...It's GODLY!

Something I absolutely loved about this fight was that going into it, we all knew that this was going to be an all out battle of armies, and everyone leading up to this was "This is less of a battle, and more of a war."

And goddamn it FELT like one!

The ambiance of this entire fight, from beginning to end, felt so goddamn chaotic and...honestly FRIGHTENING! Like, this goes above and beyond just the simple cartoonish antics of the Mario and Sonic series. This fight is fucking GRITTY, and EMOTIONAL! With stuff like the grey sky, the copious amounts of destruction that comes as a result of the fighting, the rain, the ambiance, etc.

And no, that's not me memeing. This generally felt like a short war flick, just with silly superpowers in it. There's genuinely a climactic and emotional weight to this fight, and one thing I noticed upon rewatching is that this lacks something that Death Battle is famous for, and yet it still manages to be a fantastic battle anyway:

Blood.

The lack of blood in this episode is pretty surprising, because when the characters die, they die in ways that replicate their deaths in the original games; i.e. kind of just popping out of existence. Even when Metal Sonic runs Bowser through post-transformation, there's no blood. Bowser just collapses to the ground.

And I actually don't mind it!

I genuinely think that even if this is a war, and it feels like a war thanks to the ambiance, if there was loads of blood, it would actually take away from the experience for me. The lack of blood doesn't reduce the impact of what's going on for me, and I think if there was this much gore, they'd be trying too hard. They were trying to make a spectacle of Mario's arch-enemy and Sonic's arch-enemy and their respective armies brawling each other, and they damn well succeeded.

This is very much backed up by the voice acting from everybody, which in general is very well done. Only three characters; Bowser, Eggman, and Sage, (Metal Sonic gets I think ONE line) speak in this. I don't actually know who voiced Sage, but they do a very good job, but even more importantly is Arthur Romeo as Eggman.

I don't know if Romeo was intending to go this route, but I really like that his Eggman impression is more reminiscent of Deem Bristow instead of Mike Pollock. I love Mike Pollock as Eggman, don't get me wrong, but Deem Bristow (for those who don't know, Bristow is the one who voiced Eggman in the Adventure games) really works for this fight because it's not the kind of scenario where Eggman would be the kooky villain that he is in a lot of the modern games, where it's kind of funny to see him fail.

This fight is treated VERY seriously, and the voice really works for it. As for Bowsers' VA, Zack Watkins (an animator who has been with Death Battle for a long time now, with his first animated fight being Batman Vs Captain America) his voice is pitch-shifted because...well, it HAS to be, because you can't really reach that low gruff voice if you don't. But when he DOES get a good line, he sells it really well. The highlight for me is Bowsers rage after Junior gets whomped by Metal.

The fight admittedly starts very weirdly, even if it's pretty funny. I think what was supposed to be going on is Eggman tricked Bowser into thinking he was marrying Peach so that he could get all of his forces in one place to wipe them out at once, which is admittedly cool in concept, but for me at least, I didn't get that on the first watch. It felt more to me like Eggman pulled a prank on Bowser, then announced that he was going to take over the Mushroom Kingdom.

Also, I know that people weren't very happy about the Snapcube reference, but...what's the problem with it? It's a neat reference, but you're not supposed to linger on it.

But yeah, in case I haven't sold it hard enough yet, this fight is brilliant from the establishing shot that shows the two armies and when they launch themselves at each other, right until the end when Bowser deals the final blow. MORO absolutely KILLED IT, and I CANNOT stress that enough.

Like, genuinely, there was so much stellar animation, and so much emotional weight, power, and feeling to this fight that it genuinely made me tear up a little, and I'm not joking. Like I already said, this was CINEMA, there is no other way to express it.

Side note: I genuinely wasn't expecting Infinite to be in this fight, but its hilarious how he shows up for about...10 seconds, does his bullshit, then dies almost immediately, and I...do NOT care, lol.

Honestly, had Infinite been in the fight any longer than he was, I might not have liked it as much. So to have him here to establish how Eggman has the Phantom Ruby and little more was honestly the perfect way to go about it, especially since we get a brief "clash" (I'm hesitant to call it that because King Boo basically just one-taps him) between Infinite and King Boo with their similar abilities.

And I love how in this scene, you can really see the difference between Bowser and Eggman in that, instead of trying to find a way to fight back against Infinite's control, Bowser is instead using his dark magic to protect his minions, and it's up to King Boo to take Infinite out.

That doesn't only show me how much Bowser cares about his minions like they're his family, but also that he TRUSTS them, because to me, it felt like he knew he couldn't take out Infinite without sacrificing his men, but trusted King Boo to do it.

Both Bowser and Eggman are written masterfully in this episode, and I'm glad because they are already such phenomenal characters on their own, and to show both of them for who they really are inside is wonderful, especially if it's done in a way that is this subtle that it doesn't take away from the action.

Just...GOD I LOVED THIS EPISODE!

I don't want to go into a full breakdown, because we might be here for a while, but beyond this opening sequence that shows how both of these sides are treating this war, here's a list of other moments in the fight that I think were absolutely godlike. And keep in mind this is just a FEW stand-out moments for me personally:

Metal Sonic's transformation into Neo Metal Sonic, and the step he does towards the camera before he pounds Bowser's ass.

The scene where Bowser Jr. turns Bowser into Fury Bowser, and Bowser's "SHOWTIME...!" as he transforms. As I said, even if his voice is pitch-shifted, and even if he lacks in the dialogue department compared to Eggman, when Zack Watkins delivered a line, he delivered it in a pristine package with a nice little bow wrap.

Sage throwing a legion of robots at Fury Bowser, and Kamek building a war of pipes to block it - Absolutely mindblowing choreography.

My absolute favourite moment in the fight: Metal Sonic Vs Shadow Mario, being a nice callback to Mario Vs Sonic, and Bowsers reaction when Junior gets knocked to the floor and is badly hurt. The rage in his voice and the blast he lets out that absolutely DECIMATES not just Metal Sonic, but creates a black hole that wipes out most of Eggman's fleet is so Dragon Ball-like.

Bowser shielding his ENTIRE ARMY against the Death Egg blast! THIS is the moment that made me tear up! Like, how could you NOT root for Bowser after this!? The guy absorbed the full blast to prevent his minions from getting annihilated, to the point where it completely shed his skin off his body and almost killed him, but he held his ground because he would rather have DIED than let his army; the people he CARES ABOUT, get wiped out by Eggman. And then the motherfucker comes back swinging anyway and ENDS that bald bastard!

Eggman's death isn't climactic for the death itself, but for what Bowser does to him during the sequence, as well as the actual setting. Again, the animation and choreography for this episode is godlike, but this shot at the end when Bowser is reassembling himself as Dry Bowser ready to deal the final hit, it's important to note that Bowser has his son at his feet, and his minions rallying behind him. They are in the middle of a warzone, many of their comerades have died, and yet they are STILL WITH HIM! And as for Eggman, he has no one. Not even Sage is there anymore. And as Bowser sucks him in for the final blow, Eggman exhausts all of his options, and Bowser counters all of them. Bowser's final line might as well have been "YOU'RE FUCKED!" because yeah, he just was, and Bowser let him know it regardless. (Also, it's revealed in the end that Kamek also survived, despite being knocked into the horizon by Metal Sonic.)

Alas, despite all this grandeur, I have one minor complaint. Granted, it's not a huge one, and it doesn't affect my overall opinion of the fight, but I still feel like I should bring it up.

I understand that it's next to impossible for every single one of these minions to get a time in the limelight, but what was important for me going into it was that Junior, Kamek, Metal Sonic, and Sage all got some time in the limelight to absolutely kick ass.

And most of them did...except Sage.

It's not like Sage did nothing, but compared to Bowser Jr. and Metal Sonic especially, she didn't really do an awful lot beyond throw things, block an attack, and activate the Death Egg when Eggman told her to. Metal was doing most of the fighting and yeah, okay, Metal is built for combat while Sage isn't, but Sage can still fight. I would have absolutely loved to see Bowser's son throw hands with Eggman's daughter though.

Again, it's not enough to completely throw my opinion to the wayside, but had Sage been given more to do, that would have made this episode absolutely perfect.

And overall, my least favourite part about this fight, genuinely, is that it ENDED!

Like, I KNOW these can't go on for more than a few minutes but I didn't want this fight to stop. I could watch a whole MOVIE about these two armies going at it.

More specifically I would watch it if MORO was the one animating it. But again, the guy has done MORE than enough.

And of course, the last thing that I have yet to talk about is the music.

My god the music, especially when it hits in the fight. Remember how I said my favourite moments in this fight were when Bowser rages over Junior, then blocks the Death Egg? A big part of what made those scenes so phenomenal is that the music went full-capital HARD for those scenes!

Like...Brandon Yates! HOW does he DO it!?

I genuinely think Brandon Yates is one of the best music composers of all time, and that's not even an exageration. I love all of the work he does for Death Battle and I love all the work outside of it. I love that the Death Battle crew are lucky enough to have found this man because he, and Therewolf Media too, are a massive part of why the Death Battle fights are so enjoyable to watch. Music makes these fights so good, and the modern episodes are so much better compared to the old episodes where they had to use other audio.

Also, I'm not gonna ignore Victor Borbo and Tyler Anderson who sung the vocals for the track, because they together are, medium, 50% of the reason why it absolutely slaps.

Final thoughts: When this fight was coming out, I genuinely expected that Eggman would win it. But now that I've actually watched this episode, and I got to see Eggman and Bowser at their full potential and doing everything they can to destroy each other, I actually think that had Bowser lost, I wouldn't have been as satisfied.

As they said in the post analysis, Bowser actually cares about his minions. Eggman doesn't, except for Sage. And as I pointed out, there are several points in the fight where Bowser actively tries to protect his minions over trying to take out Eggman's. When he defends them against the Phantom Ruby and Infinite, and then when he shields all of them from the Death Egg. And they REPAY that loyalty and kindness in the end, and are with Bowser during the final blow.

I was rooting for Bowser, but betting Eggman, but after this whole fight ended, I don't care what anyone else has to say about the stats, or whether things add up or not. That Koopa King EARNED and DESERVED THAT W!

It's honestly hilarious how I'm both a Persona fan and a JoJo fan, and Joker Vs Giorno didn't captivate me NEARLY as much as this spectacle did. It's not that I think Joker Vs Giorno is bad; I rewatched it a dozen times. But this fight is hands down the best fight they've done in YEARS! I think it even beats out my top contenders from Season 10.

My last note is the next time:

Okay, I wasn't expecting the 2024 finale to be such a meme matchup, but...I know that this was a thing that people kind of wanted to see, but I'm genuinely curious HOW they scale this with any kind of logic.

My current bet is on the Imposters because they actually kill things and have stuff in their bodies and equipment that are designed to kill, and the Fall Guys are just stupid beans that get knocked around a lot.

So my biggest thoughts about this are 1) how the fuck to you stage a fight between them, and 2) What kind of stats do you calculate?

Like, as a meme, I like this fight, but now that it's an official episode? I don't know, man. I really don't know how to feel about it.

Teaser was hilarious though.

Final score for Eggman and Bowser? 10 out of goddamn 10.

[tyote]

[mooniemenace]

Akira Toriyama (1955-2024).

You have created the childhoods of many, including me and my brother.

When I was a little girl, I would see reruns of DBZ on the television. I was too young to understand what any of that was, that is until I reached 8 years old. My brother had gotten a copy of Budokai Tenkaichi 3 for the Wii, and I would watch him play. I was suddenly curious to check out the show because of the game, so I asked my brother about it. He sat me down in front of the computer, pulled the first episode up on YouTube, and my life changed forever.

I would have poorly drawn doodles of Goku and Bardock in a notebook- Hell, I’d even have Turles show up as a villain for a story I was writing in 3rd grade! I would imagine little scenarios where Goten and I would be friends. I would be on the computer for hours, reading the Dragon Ball wiki for fun.

As I grew up, I put Dragon Ball on the back burner for a bit because I branched out to other interests. However, I returned to the show in March 2023 for nostalgia’s sake. And… that spark returned. I ran through Tree of Might, got myself caught up by viewing the good ol’ wiki again, and watched clips and video essays on the show. All this made me want to do better with my work.

Upon hearing the news of his death, I was in total shock. As it settled in, I found myself crying in my room. 68 is too young. It just is. I understand that Toriyama and I don’t know each other personally, but it still hurt. He made something that taught us that we can be better people when we put in the effort, and perhaps we could change the world around us because of that.

So, thank you Toriyama. Thank you for your work. Condolences to his family and loved ones.

Thank you. Goodbye. 🕊️🐉

[danganronpasurvivoraskblog]

What I love about Bowser Vs. Eggman is how the community as a whole has reacted. Normally vs debates can get quite toxic, especially if the victory is fairly controversal.

We didn't get that here, instead it was friendly ribbing, people making memes about one side shitting themselves when insert obsurce thing they can do from source material occurs, which ONLY works due to how long the Mario and Sonic franchises have been around for.

All kinds of fanart, memes and if you aren't that well knowledgable on either Mario and/or Sonic you are gonna learn a lot more about those two franchises. And then when the fight itself dropped what happened?

Everyone decided that Infinite was a little bitch that deserved to get Thomped, Metal Sonic was the MVP for the Eggman Empire and the post fight fanfics between Bowser Jr. and Sage, and of course loving the animation.

This has easily been the most fun Death Battle has become for a long while because the toxicity has receded and people doing what it was meant to be; enjoying the fight, enjoying both franchises and just apperciating their love for Death Battle.

This is most united the Death Battle community has been for a long while and I hope this lasts for a long time.

//Two things: One, it actually isn't that uncommon for post-episode discord to spark, despite what you might here. It's only for certain episodes, with Omni-Man Vs Bardock being the most recent one to earn it.

//But I believe that's Death Battle's fault, not because they got the verdict wrong, but that they kind of did a pretty crappy job at justifying their outcome. And besides, it's not like DB's opinion is the be-all-end-all. People are free to think what they want. They just take a more scientific route with it.

//And two: It still baffles me, in a good way mind, that there are FANFICTIONS being written about this episode. That is unheard of.

//Unless people made fanfics about other big hitter episodes like Goku Vs Superman 3 and I just didn't catch them.

//I'm almost hesitant to read them, because weirdly, I think my opinion of the fight could be soiled a little if I see someone else's representation of it. Not because I think these people are bad writers, but for me, that's kind of like having a golden trophy and scribbling over it in black whiteboard marker.

//Even I know that that is an objectively stupid opinion, especially since MORO went out of his way to include a post-battle scene of Eggman's troops being inducted inducted into Bowser's army, which lays the grounds for this kind of interpretation, and trust me, you will NEVER catch me discrediting fanfiction. EVER!

//It's just I don't think I want to see the aftermath or the continuation of this because, to quote Homelander, it was perfect. Perfect. Everything, down to the last minute details.

//Also, side note, the reason why it felt like Metal Sonic was carrying the whole Eggman Empire on his back during the fight is literally because that is the most realistic scenario for it. He's unquestionably the most powerful character in the episode barring probably only Bowser himself, and Death Battle didn't downplay him even slightly.

-Mod

[dbzebra]

Hey.

Hope you are doing well.

I'm a newbie who plans on watching DBZ.

Could you tell in what order should I watch it?

Asking you since I'm assuming that you are a DBZ fan.

Yes! I’m a very big DB fan lol.

watch original Dragon Ball first. People will say skip it but nooooo please watch it. It’s great

Then you can go to Z. Or Kai, it’s the same show just Kai took out majority of the filler so it’s way shorter.

Then I suggest watching the DB-Z movies. AndThey’re not a part of the main timeline but they’re fun little side stories!

Some will say “don’t bother it’s non canon” but they’re boring and annoying anyway don’t listen to that.

Also the history of trunks special and Bardock father of Goku special. Definitely watch those too

DBS and GT you can really choose which you want first.

Super is ‘canon’ but the modern continuity is kinda fucked, manga and anime happen very differently so it gets confusing. Takes place before the ending. You can watch the two modern Z movies (Battle of Gods and Resurrection F) in place of the first ~26 DBS episodes because the anime begins with retellings. After DBS watch the two super movies.

GT is anime-original after the manga ended, people hate in it but I feel it’s over hated I like it a lot.

[sapphire-weapon]

my first fictional crush was goku at age maybe 6.

the first fanfiction i ever wrote was FF7. the second one was DBZ. the third was a crossover between them both. i was like. 8 or 9.

in 5th grade, i got in trouble in school for passing handwritten DBZ fanfiction back and forth with the boy who sat front of me in class, and my mom refused to yell at me for it because she was glad that i was doing something creative.

DBZ was one of the things that my brother and i actually did together as kids. we were never close because he's 6 years older than me, but i have distinct memories of coming home from school and he'd be waiting with the next 3 or 4 DBZ episodes he'd downloaded from the internet, japanese fansubbed in english because the english dub hadn't released past the frieza saga yet. so i knew how the series went before any of my friends did. he would also go to chinatown in NYC and come home with bootleg fansubbed VHS tapes of DBZ movies. this was like circa 1999-2001. i still have them at my mom's house.

before i knew that cosplay was a thing that people actually did, i went as pan from DBGT for halloween when i was 12.

when i did find out what cosplay was, i was too afraid to do it properly, so when i went to my first convention at 17 with a boyfriend who did not want to go with me but i made him go anyway (it was AnimeNEXT 2007), i threw together a closet cosplay of a genderbent mirai trunks. and i actually found the fucking picture i took of it in the bathroom at my mom's house.

(that's the closest you're ever going to get to a proper face reveal btw lmao a 17 year old picture of me where you can see more of my tits than my face.)

i then went on to properly redo my pan cosplay, and i cosplayed chichi as well. took a picture at a con with a lil baby like 3 year old who was dressed up as goku. can't find it right now though.

in 2011, i went to anime boston with @feelboss and @theggning and drunkenly ran into sean schemmel (the english voice of goku) and somehow ended up on stage with him later that night, still wasted, at the hentai dubbing panel. faked an orgasm on stage for goku in front of about 200 people. my first fictional crush. probably the most iconic moment of my con-going days. i was 21.

the very first time i was able to use analysis of a character's arc to accurately predict their future portrayal in canon was mirai trunks. when his db super arc aired, i remember just being totally floored like, "i can't believe i actually called so much of this" -- especially considering the fact that DB never really had much of a reputation of being consistent.

i just have so many memories of staying up late with @godtier watching DB and shitposting and RPing bardock and raditz and trolling the fuck out of each other, and just

man DB was such a huge part of my life and just... felt like it was always there for me.

i don't normally mourn celebrity deaths, but i feel like i've spent the last 30 years of my life with akira toriyama. losing him hurts so much. it feels like the world has had a little bit of hope fade away from it. i have a headache from crying.

i know that i would always meme on you for forgetting your own characters, but... thank you, toriyama-san. for everything.