#epic debate

[gigizetz]

are there any differences with that one scylla animation collab you did and your design now?

tehee yeah I made her cuter

July 2023 /// June 2024 (almost a year since that collab omg)

[simply-ivanka]

Of course

[seeminglyseph]

Apollo's entire vibe in God Games feels like "Dad Said I Had to Be Here" and I feel like that's so Golden Child of him

[hailkingcheeto]

“Frankly, I don’t have enough time here to run through each specific Trump false claim,” he said, pointing viewers to his team’s online fact check of the debate.

[todayisafridaynight]

[com]

Commission Info (November 7th, 2023)

[lyculuscaelus]

So in Epic Poseidon rlly did give an ultimatum like you either “get in the water” or face the fate of all of Ithaca drowning along with his wife and son…

And Odysseus rlly did get in the water. Satisfied?

I’d say so. I’d say Poseidon in Epic was pleased enough to see Odysseus drowning. I’d say this is the moment where Poseidon did decide to leave his kingdom and family alone, since he’s got what he wanted already—Odysseus in the water, struggling for breath, for his dear life. The rest of the thing is just between Odysseus and Poseidon, with no one else as a price.

[autumnmobile12]

Epic the Musical: Not Sorry For Loving You

Regarding the debate about Rivera-Herrans' choice in writing Odysseus as sympathetic to Calypso and telling her he loves her even though she trapped him on her island for seven years...I may have some context.

And I’m really hesitant in posting this because I know the ‘Calypso was Odysseus’ lover or abuser’ debate is a volatile subject. I guess what I’m saying is please be kind.  I don’t want to fight about this, but I do want to provide some insight with what I know about Greek mythology.

...

My guess is the song was largely inspired by this conversation between Calypso and Odysseus in the original Odyssey. (Abridged because the full text is too long to be concise):

“…Kalypso the goddess thus began: ‘Son of Laertes, subtle Odysseus--so then, your mind is firmly set on returning now without delay to your home and country? Go then, and joy go with you, in spite of all. Yet if you knew--if you fully knew--what miseries are fated to fill your cup before you attain your own land, you would choose to stay here, to join with me in calm possession of this domain, to be beyond reach of death…”

Subtle Odysseus answered her: ‘Goddess and queen, do not make this a cause of anger with me. I know the truth of everything you say; …. Yet, not withstanding, my desire and longing day by day is still to reach my own home and see the day of my return. And if this or that divinity should shatter my craft on the wine-dark ocean, I will bear it and keep a bold heart within me. Often enough before this time have war and wave oppressed and plagued me; let new tribulations join the old.’ -The Odyssey, Homer, trans. by Shewring.

…

In this conversation, we see Calypso asking Odysseus if he’s sure he wants to leave her and return to Ithaka, and that he would have an easier life if he remained with her forever immortal. And he asks her not to be angry/hurt and that whatever lies ahead on his journey, he’ll face it bravely. (Choosing a simple life but a life of obscurity as opposed to returning to hardship and being remembered as a stalwart hero.)

Giving this the context of the Ancient Greek cultural lens, Odysseus and Calypso were lovers.  The above conversation is immediately followed up with this:

So he spoke; and the sun sank and darkness came; then the pair withdrew, and in a recess of the arching cavern they took their pleasure in love, and did not leave one another's side.  -The Odyssey, Homer, trans. by Shewring.

Yes, Calypso trapped Odysseus on her island for seven years and by today’s standards, that's gonna be a huge yikes.  But their ‘lovers’ dynamic becomes easier to understand when you look at the wider collection of Greek myth stories and remember that what we consider a lovers’ relationship by today’s standards is practically nonexistent in this genre and if there is 'love,' it’s probably closer to what we’d recognize as Stockholm Syndrome and so on.

Look at Hera and Zeus’ eternal marital problems.

Jason the Argonaut just setting aside his wife Medea so he can marry another princess.

Helen of Sparta either willingly left Menelaus or Paris kidnapped her, depending on which version you hear.

Theseus abandoning Ariadne and then she marries Dionysus almost immediately after he stumbles across her.

Hades kidnapping Persephone, even in modern retellings where they form a mutual love.

I think the closest we can get to a romantic love story in Greek mythology is possibly Perseus’ rescuing of Princess Andromeda because that has more of the classic ‘hero saves princess from monster, they get married, happily ever after’ trope we're familiar with in fairy tales.

Even Odysseus’ marriage to Penelope calls consent into question because he technically demanded her as payment for helping her uncle, King Tyndareus, out of a difficult situation.

Getting back to the song and Epic: The Musical, the tone of the original text does give the impression that Odysseus is sympathetic for leaving, and I think Rivera-Herrans is trying to reconcile that because he portrays Odysseus as a faithful husband and that clashes with the Greek portrayal where Odysseus and Calypso were lovers in the poem, hence Odysseus giving a more heartfelt goodbye than Calypso may deserve. I go into the original story a bit more with this post.

It’s not a bad portrayal of Odysseus and I do like that Rivera-Herrans chose to resolve the toxic masculinity of the original story. Women in Greek mythology, especially if they’re mortal, are more often than not little more than a plot device while the men get the glory. That said, I think if Rivera-Herrans really wanted Calypso to be a sympathetic figure to his audience, it might have been better suited if he'd referred to the poet Hesiod’s version of events where she held Odysseus prisoner because Poseidon commanded her do it.  He could have easily spun her story as,

“Forgive me, I can’t disobey the sea god.”

That option would have robbed her of free will as much as Odysseus and we could have gotten more on board with pitying her for her loneliness when he leaves, and it would have still preserved Poseidon's role as the villain of the musical. As it stands, the ‘playful but socially clueless’ demeanor he gave Calypso only works if she detained Odysseus a day or two. Seven years of drawing that out is a little much and portrays Calypso as a foolish girl and not as the ‘mighty and beautiful’ goddess she’s described as, by Odysseus himself, in the original.

But that's me.

[beperoncin]

DAY 5 ~~ A SHIP

hello extremely tiny circle of lemoncino shippers

look at my cookie yaoi boy

i added this prompt simply as an excuse to draw my bois doin a kith

i haven't drawn peperoncino as a human in a long time and never have i posted anything related to "humanized" lemon to the public besides in gacha life 2 edits

h. lots of headcanons and extra info below the cut because i love these boys. uhh there's also a slightly nsfw hc too but i added a warning

when i was drawing this i was trying to draw lemon's jacket but it turns out the outline color is the same as his hair so i had to invert it to get it correct but i liked the color so i kept it

the reason why peperoncino is in a wheelchair is unfortunately not because of lemon (i wish it was) but because of something too graphic to talk about on this post. long story short is he got torn in half by two pieces of metal in the ocean and survived three more hours before being found by lemon. i have a more in-depth explanation on a different post in the ship tag

apparently one of my hcs for lemon is he's a sentient robot so in the drawing he has a data panel on the back so in his cookie form other cookies could check in on him but because of the whole electricity becoming too dangerous and everyone becomes scared of him thing he was. kinda neglected by the scientists

another hc related to the previous one. orange wated to take a mechanics class once she found out that lemon was a robot because she didn't wanna see him deteriorate but lemon told her he was fine on his own

i would like to talk more about lemon but this isn't about him. boowomp.mp3

so a couple of headcanons about lemon and peperoncino's relationship. uh. so lemon and peperoncino spent a lot of time together in the hospital but during the first couple days peperoncino couldn't speak any comprehensible words because he was so tired but lemon magically knew what he was trying to explain to him and since lemon treated him so nicely and understood him he started to get really comfy around him and then lemon noticed that and started to have feelings for him but repressed them because he would probably just lose him (peperoncino felt the same and he repressed his attraction too)

usually both parties don't like speaking to others or physical touch but they just now reserve it for one another

sorry for headcanon dumping about lemon on a peperoncino post but i prommy this is relevant to the ship. so about orange using lemon to "recharge." how that works is orange just hugs lemon for a prolonged amount of time (which lemon does not like because of the previously stated headcanon) which kinda transfers energy from him to the other cookie which tires lemon out.

so what lemon does is he plugs himself in (there's a special charging port in between his legs where a reproductive organ would usually be) and when he rests he only puts himself on sleep mode (not completely shutting down because the energy transfer system won't work that way) and hugs peperoncino. triple win situation because he doesn't tire himself out while charging his bf and all the while he gets to cuddle with him :D!!!!!!!

(nsfw) uhhh do you think peperoncino ever stuck his fingers into the cha- *gets sent to the backrooms* but yeah. the charging port is really sensitive and it's possible for lemon to be at the stripped club. straight up "jorking it". and by "it"? haha well. lets justr say. his chargign port

tsunku ♂️ forbid lemon finds out peperoncino gets flustered easily because y'all know he's gonna use it to his advantage (spoiler alert: he did in fact find out)

uhhhh those are all of my headcanons for now uhhhhh gets in my clown car and speeds away and drifts and

[cryptdaii]

no context or anything i just couldn't let him be happy today

[trappedinaday]

Brought to you by

A pdf for a Jttw Translation

A deleted song from Epic the Musical

Me struggling desperately not to make elaborate AU’s while trying to design something I can freakin draw

[spineless-lobster]

In the name of hades, tsoa and epic the musical amen 🙏

[simply-ivanka]

[triglycercule]

small leisurely moments like these mean more than expected

ok hi triglycergang. it's AUGUST?!?!?! ugh,,,, anyways here's my like once a month art piece because i am a slow ass artist. the mtt are supposed to be chatting at a park during sunset!!! also new au just dropped

you wonder why killer dust and horror are wearing those DISGUSTING outfits??? you wonder where killer's soul is??? well it's all gone in this au which is called uhhh.

jk fashion au... wooooo!!

first things first to know: this au is NOT my idea. it was originally someone on twitter's idea to dress sans aus up in nanchatte seifuku but i think their account got deleted/banned. and i cant find the account because it was a japanese account and probably has some random username. so just remember that this isn't my idea but i guess my own twist on it. i really wish i could find the og creator,,,,

second thing to know: what the fuck nanchatte seifuku/jk (just kidding) fashion even is. here's the link to read for yourself: https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Nanchatte_Seifuku. yeah that's jk fashion. i really loved this au when i found it originally because i myself dress up in jk and also i just really love soft fluffy things like this. this au isn't gonna be angsty or particularly elaborate or anything i just wanted cute things and women in my murder time trio. also this isn't gyaru btw

third thing: uhh my inspirations for this??? well my main one that i really wanna focus on is that feeling of happy sentimental melancholy. you know like after you finish a really fun day hanging out with your friends and youre on the drive home and look back at how fun the day was? that's what i wanna encapsulate :3 also i think that the day to day school life is really cute and sweet and i wanna make more designs for the other aus so my trio can have more people to hang out with

well uhhh i think that's it?? mayhaps i shall begin drafting up other designs for the other aus. i wanna make little mini comics for this too like 4koma because i love those short yet sweet comics!!! should i tag this? i think i should tag this perchance. also extra mtt notes/full designs below became i love these three they're my daughters

[i-will-change-this-someday]

Here are my thoughts on The Vengeance Saga.

(Spoilers ahead)

I enjoyed it, I don’t think it’s my favorite, but I still really like it.

I think it’s because this is the first saga to come out after I started listening, but the transitions to each song seems a bit abrupt.

Cause when I think about it, the cut from Just A Man to Full Speed Ahead, Open Arms to Warrior Of The Mind, and The Underworld to No Longer You are all pretty abrupt as well.

Pretty sure this is an unpopular opinion, but Calypso is... fine? She's not good by any means, but people act like she's evil incarnate.

I don't know if I'm missing something here, but why are people making her out to be most evil character in all of EPIC?

Polyphemus thinks it's fair to kill 600 people over the life of one sheep (That he would have killed and eaten anyway?)

Poseidon kills over 500 men all for his own pride (I really don't think he actually cared that much about Polyphemus given how crass he sounded about killing him)

Circe turns men into pigs (And eats them?) without giving them a chance at proving that they mean no harm

Odysseus sacrifices the lives of his men who he is captain to, and I might be talking nonsense, but I feel like that means that he has a responsibility to them and their safety, he is their captain, they are saying "I trust you with my life and to take me home" and he betrayed that trust

All of them do these awful things, but you can understand why they do. But for some reason the same is not given to Calypso, she literally says he is all she's ever known. It's not fair for her to keep Odysseus on the island, but can you blame her when letting him go means she'll be alone again? Would you be able to let the one and only person you have ever met go? Knowing you'd likely be alone again forever?

Anyway what I don't see nearly enough is hatred for Antinous, I hate that man, he's literally a child abuser (I know Telemachus isn't a child, but he was at one point and Antinous was there [Telemachus literally doesn't even know how to fight] do you really think he didn't abuse that child?) That man is (assumedly) already nobility, but that's not good enough for him, he needs to be king and will force himself onto Penelope and kill her son.

Okay rant over, anyways Dangerous is a bop.

I really do adore Troy's voice, and really like his music (I'm actually listening to his music as I write this)

Dangerous is probably my favorite song this saga, but only in terms of "I will listen to this outside of a full listen of the musical" I probably wouldn't listen to the others without context of the rest of the musical.

How do you pronounce Charybdis?

I do feel like he got past Charybdis really easily, but I get that Poseidon was the focus for the saga, so I don't mind it.

Steven Rodriguez's voice is so good.

I was kinda hoping for one more verse from Poseidon before Odysseus's line but that's alright

At this point I shouldn't even be surprised if there's a Polites cameo

Also I feel like this is a given, But Jorge's voice is also amazing, and he really gave his all for the screams and yells this saga.

Okay, time for another tangent, I'll admit the wind bag jetpack is kinda goofy, but it's really not that bad to me. Ancient Greece also didn't have high fives (I'm pretty sure anyways) but people don't say anything about that, also the slang "sick" probably wasn't invented in ancient Greece. (I will say, I did like one idea I saw that someone say [I'm sorry, I don't remember who] that the wind bag split the ocean and they were fighting on the ocean floor)

I've seen a lot of people be mad that Odysseus beat Poseidon, but I feel like it would have been unsatisfying if he just lost. Like say he didn't beat him, and was getting beaten up until Zeus or someone was like "Yo, chill bro that dude is like fine or whatever, let him go" I feel like that would have been an underwhelming conclusion to the Vengeance Saga.

Like sure, should Poseidon been able to kill Odysseus? Yes. But don't humans beat the Gods in some stories? (I‘ll be honest, I don’t know a whole lot about Greek mythology and most of what I do know is from PJO which I haven’t read in a while.) Like Arachne was a better weaver than Athena, or Diomedes wounded Ares (?) so I feel like it’s not that unreasonable.

I’m not saying you have to like it, I just feel like people are saying it’s bad without giving an alternative that would be narratively satisfying. Like, it’s satisfying to get to see Odysseus knock Poseidon down a peg, it’s compelling to see how much Odysseus has become a monster, and wonder how much more he will fall to monstrosity before he returns home.

To me, the story is a tragedy about a man who wanted something so much he gave everything he had, his morals, his companions, his compassion, he gave everything for it, and in the end he became someone else entirely.

Ody beating up Poseidon shows how much he has changed, if he had lost and just pleaded with him, how is he any different from the Odysseus that got on his knees and begged a god to spare a life in the very first song? He's not that man anymore, he has changed so much that it's, at least in this moment, a god kneeling and begging.

[indecision-16]

I feel like the epic the musical keeps giving Odysseus these moments emphasizing that he’s mortal and human and grieves and feels so much (just a man, remember them, and then the end of keep your friends close) only to then immediately have a divine figure punish him for that

Someone else posted about how there’s this conflict of the Ancient Greek morals homer presents in the odyssey about the valor of essentially ruthlessness which is definitely what Athena and Poseidon are conveying but then Odysseus is written in epic with more modern morals (at least to start).

[gotstabbedbyapen]

I'm seeing too many Greek mythology-related wars on Tumblr these days and I'm kinda scared.

Please send help QAQ