#elden ring lore talk

[bad-as-me]

Love without Compassion, Compassion without Love

Ok so I wanted to unpack this for a while, but it would be a whole thing to explain and, I'll be honest, the constant hostility from both camps towards the other made me hesitant to make a whole thing about this. But it's been over half a year since sote's release, and the heat has died down enough where I feel comfortable enough to dissect my thoughts as a fan of both of these guys.

tldr: I believe Mohg and Miquella's actions towards one another are meant to mirror each other, because they are inversions of each other's goals.

Full disclosure, this is a culmination of all my general headcanons and interpretations of these characters and their actions. Elden Ring is deliberately vague because it wants you to make up your own mind on what really happened, what matters most to you, things like that. I am not claiming I know the mind of Martin, Miyazaki, and Fromsoft, nor do I think that it would entirely matter if I did.

However, they are still trying to communicate a story with themes at the end of the day, and I find that there is a super common thread in this story around karmic retribution and characters mirroring the actions of another. Mohg and Morgott are an obvious one, as are Miquella and Marika.

But I feel that the intense scrutiny around who the "true victim" was between Mohg and Miquella is completely ignoring the fact that they kind of do unto each other more or less exactly what the other did to them. And I really don't believe that is a coincidence!

We knew in the base game that Mohg stole a sleeping Miquella from his cocoon in the Haligtree. We know he has a penchant for kidnapping people for his service, and that he intended to use Miquella's godhood as an offering to the Formless Mother in his pursuit of Lordship.

We also know the Mohgwyn dynasty is heavily coded in gothic romantic sensibilities. That as Varre tells us, Mohg intends to bless his followers with Love, even if that entails pain and suffering on their part. Mohg is in a lot of ways, a forever open wound: forsaken by his mother for his curse, he only seemed to find respite in the embrace of the outer god known as the Mother of Truth. I think, to Mohg, this idea of love as a painful endeavor is something he operates his entire situation around. He craves love, he craves it especially in maternal figures and people who are in so many aspects, a perfect reincarnation of his own mother. And the painful truth, to him, is that love can only be seized for yourself, and damned be what everyone else thinks of you.

But love is not a kind thing to him. It is a painful, bottomless hole that he is trying to fill for himself. This isn't his fault obviously, it's the result of centuries of abuse and neglect, but that is the fatal flaw of his design that makes him an enemy in our game. He wants a dynasty founded in Love, but without Compassion.

Then we have Miquella, a child of Marika who was surrounded by people who were suffering, but not particularly experiencing that suffering firsthand. He was cursed with eternal childhood, but he was incredibly gifted, and destined to succeed his mother in ascension to godhood. This is his fate, and he knows it's coming no matter what, but either out of a deep sense of care for his sister or just an innocent desire to make everything right, he sets out to make this happen in a way that will somehow fix everything, for everyone.

It's a bold ambition, to be sure. One might say it's a utopian ideal, an impossible ask in a world mired in war and conflict. But Miquella holds this with a deep conviction that could only be manifested in one with a childlike heart, who can't understand just how impossible his own desire really is. He knows of everything his mother accomplished, and in his mind, the only thing that really needs fixing is to just do it right this time.

I'll be honest and say, I don't think Mohg's kidnapping was initially a part of Miquella's plan. I think the track record he already has in seizing people for his own purposes (the albinaurics, the white masks, etc) is enough to believe that he would do it again, and I think it tracks with his general understanding that acceptance is not something that is given to someone like him- it is taken.

Plus, given the understanding that he was bewitched, I just don't like the idea of taking a choice of his that is so central to the events of the game that it is a part of the opening cutscene, and rendering it effectively powerless on Mohg's behalf. I can believe that Mohg's need for an Empyrean body for his goals, meshed with an unhealthy, obsessive need for love from his mother, would translate into jumping the gun and stealing Miquella when everyone is away at the wheel. Love, again, does not come to him out of Compassion, only through force. Unfortunately for him, Miquella is used to failed plans, and knows well how to shift gears and improvise.

Miquella's vow to Radahn happened when they were both fairly young, likely well before Mohg had ever set eye on the vision of a Dynasty in his name. Miquella, forever trapped in the same stage of his life, not only keeps this promise long after it's ever relevant, he incorporates it into his ultimate desire to make everything okay in his new Age.

For the sake of keeping this about only two major characters, I'll keep the Radahn custody situation brief, but in short, Miquella is put in a situation where his promised Lord needs a physical body. And as it so happens, there is a fresh one right in his hands. Someone who also desired for his hand, and the glory of Lordship, but was much too late to be considered for the part.

Miquella's age is one of Compassion. It is so devoted to the idea of endless Compassion, that all other parts of him are shed and made irrelevant. In this endless ambition, powered by centuries of failed plan after failed plan, he starts to forsake so much of himself that the line between "Person" and "Concept" start to blur. He abandons things that should never be forgotten for the sake of a dream. He abandons his Love.

I believe that, in an ill-guided attempt to solve every loose end and satisfy everyone involved, Miquella chose Mohg's body as a vessel out of a "compromise" for Mohg's desires. Radahn may be his destined consort, and Mohg's death may have been made inevitable. However, the wish to be loved and worshipped as Miquella's Lord would still be made his - in body, but not in soul.

Ansbach remarks on the grotesque ritual by saying that "I'm afraid Tender Miquella fails to grasp the humiliation implied by this act." And I am inclined to take him at his word here. Miquella can't understand how this "solution" is an abomination, because the part of him that could have known better is long gone. It is a choice made in Compassion, but not Love.

I hope all of this expresses how much I don't believe anyone in this story deserved their outcome. Rather, their choices are deliberately made to call back to one another. I really do enjoy both Mohg and Miquella as characters at the end of the day, because in so many ways they are mirrors of each other's flaws. Both of them had the intention of using the other's body as a vessel for their own ascension. Neither was right for doing so, but they also had their own reasons for deciding that was what had to be done.

You can't have Love without Compassion, nor Compassion without Love, and that is why they were both doomed to make the same cruel mistakes in their grasp for power.

[drenched-in-sunlight]

i love the DLC man

[cometblaster2070]

genuinely love ranni's stupid lore dumping ass like first she's just annoyed and embarrassed that we've realized she's in the doll form and then she sends us on a silly little assassination quest because yk we're already there and THEN after all this we sit down and she just starts telling her entire backstory it's so funny.

girl can't keep shit to herself to save her life I love her. like she just immediately launches into the entire reasoning behind her hating the fingers and how iji and blaidd mean so much to her before she's like 'wait fuck I shouldn't have said that forget this conversation ever happened bye.'

also bonus: yk when you face the baleful shadow for the first time and ranni has that banger dialogue like:

"O Shadow, thou'rt the last. Tell the Two Fingers, That Ranni the Witch cometh, to rend thy flesh. With a fateful wound, ne'er to heal."

and it's so funny to me like GIRL I AM THE ONE TRYING TO KILL THIS MF I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING STOP.

it's just embarrassing when your girl's all hype like that and then you get your ass kicked by the baleful shadow like 5 times in a row.

[st-trinas-flower]

🪻Something I Found Interesting About St. Trina's Nectar...

..is that it confirms to us, the players, that we can canonically respawn.

Isn't that crazy? That means that all the times you've ever died to a boss and came back, the boss knows that you were there before. They keep killing you time and time again, but you just keep coming back no matter how many times they cut you down.

I don't think this has been actually confirmed in any other Fromsoft game like Dark Souls or Bloodborne, (I haven't played either of them to know) but that is really interesting to think about because other Tarnished in the game can die. We've seen this in the game enough times to confirm it. Gideon, D, any of the invaders... Which really begs the question...

Why?

Why are we the only Tarnished who can come back to life at a site of grace? How is this possible? Why does no one bring it up in-game, as if it is just normal when it clearly isn't?

The demigods and Emperyans can't respawn. Hell, not even the Gods in the game can come back to life! So, what's the deal? What makes us so special?

To me, it seems to be clear that St. Trina at least notices that we keep coming to back to drink her nectar time and time again, dying each time. After all, after a certain amount of times, she talks to us. So, as far as I can see, she is the only one who actually is conscious about this strange phenomenon.

But even then, she does not point it out as strange or weird or frightening.

..It's almost like she knew that we were like this since before she met us in the Garden of Deep Purple...

Hm...

[epicfroggz]

One thing that annoys me is that some people try to reduce the complex dynamic between Messmer and Marika as some wholesome purely loving relationship?? Especially when there are takes that Messmer wasn't cursing Marika in his dying breath and was saying he became a curse upon her? Like even in the og Japanese version he did curse her in the most obvious - simplistic way there is no ambiguity in it . Or that he was "demonically possessed" by the abyssal serpent and that it was the one cursing Marika lmfaoo.

Sorry about this small rant 😭 i just really want people other than me ( i feel alone on this somehow) to appreciate the relationship between Marika and Messmer for its complexity and tragedia. She abandoned him and he ended up cursing her instead of the person who killed him. Which is beautifully tragic you know... Better than the one-dimensional uwu wholesome dynamic

Yeah, I agree!

The relationship between Marika and Messmer is incredibly complex, nuanced, and dynamic—the Marika that birthed a cursed son alone and cared for him deeply and completely is not the same Marika that told all her demigod children to fuck off should they not become gods or Lords. Neither is the Messmer that committed a genocide for his mother’s sake the same as the exhausted Messmer that we end up fighting. There is evidence that she loved him, the Blessings of Marika for example, just as there is evidence that she feared him, and that fear won out over love. Just the same, it is obvious that Messmer loved her, and it is obvious this love for her had limits, limits he reached:

That after an “eternity of suffering” with no sign of her, she would think to elevate a lightless Tarnished to lordship, when he himself was abandoned and hated and betrayed and hurt over being a vile lightless creature himself. After everything he’s done for her… Marika, a curse upon thee.

That is not to say I don’t appreciate the efforts of folks who just want them to be happy, though. Gentle, wholesome moments between mother and son make my heart full, and I love them. Just as there is no darkness without light, there can be no angst without a period of happiness to ruin first. </3

- Froggo

[reitziluz]

hey about the vow made to radahn?

i had a moment of red string insanity while, as i have been since the dlc dropped, thinking about the motivations and agency of radahn.

(please tell me i'm not the only one stumbling into this hypothesis)

i've been long pondering about gaius, radahn's older brother figure, being an albinauric, one of the opressed people miquella is trying to save. and how he is stated to be cursed from birth, cursed people being also part of miquella's motivations.

i am in the camp that miquella has good intentions, but desperation has driven him to extreme methods. the "he is controlling everyone, nobody is willing!!" angle doesn't sit right with me. frankly, it makes for a less impactful story. it makes things convoluted, where seeing miquella as someone with limited power and a lot of his moves as scrambling to recover from setbacks makes sense. everything didn't go down as planned, there were things out of his control.

so. radahn. he promised to be miquella's consort, for better or worse. what did miquella vow to him?

i considered it, but wanting gaius to be saved doesn't feel like enough motivation for him. or if it was, would the man who learned gravity magic to keep riding his beloved horse decide to abandon his sworn brother so that he can, what, go hog wild in the shattering war?

but thinking about gaius made me think of albinaurics. lack of feet. being cursed from birth. radahn lacks his feet during the festival. that's not anything, scarlet rot rots away limbs all the time.

but scarlet rot doesn't turn your skin gray and sclera black.

marika's children are prone to being born cursed. cursed to be taken over by entities. losing their minds.

it's hard to find a sensible reason for radahn and malenia to have fought. two possibilities i've seen before are 1) radahn wasn't on board with the plan (likely had broken out of miquella's charms and control) so malenia was sent to bring him back in line 2) for some reason, miquella specifically needed him to die and be resurrected, and all the weird circumstances are somehow part of the same plan and make sense for reasons we just can't know but trust me bro they do.

it's interesting that in the story trailer, in radahn's and malenia's fight, radahn's face is shown only for a split second.

gray skin. black sclera.

was radahn, too, cursed from birth?

was he doomed to be overtaken, to lose himself?

had he lost his mind long before he was afflicted with scarlet rot? had he turned into a scourge, and not much else, before he and malenia fought?

did malenia see herself in him? did she want to give him the death he would have wanted? did she want to help him keep a promise he wouldn't have wanted to break?

did miquella vow to save him, like he did the albinaurics, like he did malenia?

[ganondoodle]

not to bring this up again, but watching people play the elden ring DLC and even just the first area makes me so envious bc ....imagine if botw got a DLC like that instead of a shitty sequel that does nothing with the world it build ...............................................

[blasphemousclaw]

Bernahl and the Blasphemous Claw

Bernahl seems to be the most senior recusant at the Volcano Manor; he’s been an agent of the Manor since we meet him in Limgrave (“You are an enigma, to be certain. The Volcano Manor awaits you.”), he’s a seasoned killer on the Manor’s behalf, and he wields a very important weapon to the Manor’s mission — the Devourer’s Scepter, depicting the serpent cult’s prophecy of the serpent devouring the world. Tanith bestows weapons upon the manor’s greatest champions, so it makes sense that she gave Bernahl the scepter as a reward for his exemplary service. This begs the question, though: if Tanith’s goal is to feed Volcano Manor’s strongest champions to Rykard, so they might join the “family” and aid in his growth and power, then why was Bernahl not eaten? 

I think this is because he was entrusted with a special task; by Rykard, or by Tanith in Rykard’s stead. After Bernahl leaves the Manor, the next time we see him, he invades us in Farum Azula, carrying the Blasphemous Claw:

“A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death. Can deflect the power of the Black Blade. On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death.”

Why does Bernahl have this object? Given that we encounter him on the way to Maliketh, and that the claw has the unique ability to deflect the power of his black blade, it’s safe to assume Bernahl is going after Maliketh. On our own journey, after Melina gives herself to the flames, we are transported to Farum Azula, where we defeat Maliketh in order to unbind the Rune of Death, bringing “death’s dark fate” back to the Lands Between and causing the Erdtree to burn. Crucially, Maliketh must be defeated so the Rune of Death can be unbound, allowing the Erdtree to burn… so this must also be Bernahl’s intention in going after Maliketh. This reading is supported by Bernahl’s speech to us before leaving:

“So. You killed Rykard? I harbour you no ill will. The strong take. Such is our code. Even he was prepared to meet a wretched end when he first took blasphemy unto his very flesh. But anyroad, the Volcano Manor is no more. Though we may yet fulfill an old promise. We hunted our own kind, and took what was theirs. And with everything in hand, the time has come to rise, against the Erdtree. O Greater Will, hear my voice. I am the recusant Bernahl, inheritor of my brother's will, and you will fall to my blade. We refuse to become your pawns. Consider this fair warning.”

Bernahl says that now, the time has come to rise against the Erdtree, and he calls out the Greater Will specifically. I think it’s clear that he intends to fight against the Greater Will by first burning the Erdtree. When Bernahl refers to “his brother,” he’s referring to Rykard, in the sense that they are brothers-in-arms in a wider struggle against the Greater Will, and that Rykard’s will has now become Bernahl’s will… in fact, Rykard has actually intended to burn the Erdtree and to go after Maliketh and the Rune of Death for a long time: there are paintings of the Erdtree burning hung throughout the Manor, and Ranni had given him the Blasphemous Claw in the first place so that he could challenge Maliketh, “challenge” implying an offensive attack. 

I believe the “old promise” Bernahl speaks of is not only a promise he made to Rykard and Tanith to fulfill this task, but it might also refer to a promise Rykard himself made to Ranni. Long before the Shattering, the siblings mutually agreed that the Greater Will must be overthrown: the “coming trespass” mentioned in the Blasphemous Claw’s description refers to an open act of treason, one that Rykard and Ranni must have intended to carry out against the Erdtree. I speculate that the two had a kind of agreement, that Ranni would slay her empyrean flesh, then eventually kill her Two Fingers and be free of their influence for good, while Rykard challenged Maliketh and burned the Erdtree, opening the door for a new age free of the Greater Will’s control. Obviously, things went... awry. 

But indeed, Bernahl’s message to the Greater Will that “we refuse to become your pawns” is essentially the exact same sentiment as Ranni’s words against her Two Fingers: “I would not be controlled by that thing.” For me, that’s proof enough that Ranni and Rykard’s joint struggle against the Greater Will left a lasting impression. 

[kingofpuppets]

elden ring dlc spoilers

here's my 2 cents about the dlc and the reactions i'm seeing

i have no intention of writing a post analyzing in-depth the lore of the dlc since i've yet to go through every dialogue and item description as i did for base game – anything i were to write now would be incomplete at best – so this is not it. i just wanted to address the overall dissatisfaction i'm seeing from a lot of people. like, as someone who spent weeks after playing the base game reading every single line of text in the game, analyzing each environment, enemy placement and design, seeing the reaction people are having to the dlc lore is quite funny. i get being disappointed a character isn't what you thought they'd be but going so far as to scream "bad writing!" is a bit excessive. i even saw people claiming miyazaki changed the writing to pander to the fans and, seriously? fromsoftware never came close to doing that and there's absolutely no reason for them to start now. but anyways, as i mentioned before i'm a huge lore nerd, the kind with a huge mind map containing nearly all relevant item descriptions, there's nothing in the base game i haven't read, so i think it's safe to say i have a somewhat good understanding of what new lore piece in the dlc contradicts what lore piece in the base game. i'm in no way an authority on the matter – there isn't one – nor am i pointing fingers saying "i'm right, you're wrong" – i just don't understand. i've been through countless different theories before i settled on the ones i entered the dlc with and obviously i wasn't right about everything – especially because a lot of it is speculation not to mention there's not really a right or wrong, only different interpretations of the same materials – but nothing new i encountered contradicted the base game lore i had put together. if anything, it strengthened even more some of my theories. so many people are upset about miquella being the main antagonist or that he's evil (which i completely disagree with, especially some posts portraying miquella as some kind of cartoon villain which is more speculation than anything with actual support from in-game lore), but everything was leading up to it if not in the base game in the dlc (the moment i found miquella's discarded love i figured who the final boss might be, when i found st. trina i was sure). "but the radahn fight comes out of nowhere" maybe there's no direct mentions of it in the base game but it is hinted quite well albeit very subtlety what miquella wanted to do with him in one of the dlc quests – not to mention radahn makes the most obvious sense when you think of miquella/radahn as a parallel to marika/godfrey. and miquella using mohg is not even worth mentioning – i hope my fellow mohg enthusiasts are feeling vindicated, as am i. in short, nothing seemed out of place for me at all. so i was really taken aback when i went into the tags and saw the overall mood. everyone can have different opinions regarding their enjoyment of the dlc nor are there right and wrong theories in a fromsoftware game where the lore is so vague but it's quite upsetting seeing people talk about how "the dlc ruined miquella's character" or "the dlc lore has no connection to the base game" when that's simply not true. if anything, the dlc only added more depth to miquella and even if i was heartbroken at the death of my favorite elden ring character, it made sense thematically. if anything i'm more upset about the fight itself but that's a gameplay problem which is not the focus of the post.

[nishihii]

rennala marika toxic yuri i cant get you out of my head

[aliensupersyn]

Ranni the Trans Analogous Witch

For starters, I do not mean to make any wild claims about Ranni or if she should be considered transfem. Put those fears to rest, dear reader. That's for my eventual breakdown of Miquella's character. Instead, I offer a lens to see Ranni's story from a different perspective than one might not immediately be familiar with.

When people allow themselves to see the world in other's eyes, they can learn to focus on the similarities shared between them instead of the differences. Allow my analogy for Ranni's story to be a mirror, holding space for both the real and fictional.

Rennala and Radagon conceived three children between the two of them: Rykard, Radhan, and Ranni. The two fingers chose Ranni to become an Empyrean, alongside Miquella and Malenia, and each were candidates to succeed Queen Marika.

Though, what does it mean to succeed Marika and become the new queen? The queen would become a vessel for the Elden Ring. To be chosen as an Empyrean means that the Greater Will commands one's body from the first moment they get chosen, and it maintains that power until the Empyrean's end. Elden Ring places significant emphasis on the importance of the body and its connection to one's identity. For example, when the player reaches Queen Marika who betrayed the the Greater Will, you do not fight her. Marika's hair changes color, her dress becomes a skirt, signifying that you face someone else: Radagon. Though they share a host, they have different identifiable traits apart from one another, and their respective forms indicate the one currently present. In the cinematic, the golden haired Marika shatters the Elden Ring; Marika's Hammer reveals that Radagon attempted to repair it. Marika and Radagon may share the same host, but they cannot truly be the same person. The differences in their forms accentuates the differences in their ideals and personalities. Marika cannot escape her destiny as a God and vessel in any ending, and always ends as the Greater Will's puppet. Ultimately, becoming an Empyrean means that the Greater Will controls your body, and therefore your destiny.

The Greater Will's power has both literal and figurative demonstrations throughout Elden Ring; it encompasses militaristic, religious, and political power throughout the Lands Between. The Greater Will created the Erdtree, the Elden Ring, and the god Marika. It created its own God to be worshipped, defeating and alienating the other gods, who have been deemed "Outer Gods." The term "outer" signifies their alienation and their forced dissociation from the Greater Will's own God and other extensions of its power. The Greater Will exists in Elden Ring as an all powerful creation god who influences the written and oral histories and culture of the Lands Between.

The Tarnished Archeologist compares the Greater Will's influence to that of Catholicism. When comparing the Greater Will to the Catholic hierarchy, he says that "the Greater Will would be God, the Fingers are the Pope, those that hear the the words of God directly, and the readers are the church bishopric and clergy.[1]" His comparison demonstrates the the ways that the Greater Will dominates the Lands Between as its most influential God. Marika's own words reiterate my point:

The Erdtree governs all. The choice is thine.

Become one with the Order. Or divest thyself of it.

To wallow at the fringes; a powerless upstart.

Marika's tree, the power of the Greater Will, acts as the ultimate sovereign. It's will acts as the law of the Lands Between, and all must adhere to Marika's rule.

Yet Ranni refused to be controlled by the Greater Will, let alone Marika. Ranni broke away from the bonds of her own flesh and freed herself, forging her own path and eventually, her own reign, free from the control of the Greater Will. Here, I will focus on Ranni's flesh. After her armies defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen's, Marika sealed the Rune of Death away. Ranni salvaged the Rune of Death, used her body as a canvas, and sacrificed her half-brother Godwyn. While her flesh died, her soul was freed and lived on; in contrast, Godwyn's soul died, but his body continued to live.

Ranni's corporeal death can be read as a transitioning allegory. Not only because of the implication of modifying one's body and literally transitioning to a new one, but also because of what she sought freedom from. Once she was forced to become an Empyrean, she no longer held autonomy and control of her destiny or body. She would have to walk the path laid for her, just like everyone else, forever at the whim of the Greater Will. Ranni ultimately sought escape through the flesh. She "would not acquiesce to the Two Fingers. I stole the Rune of Death, slew mine own Empyrean flesh, casting it away. I would not be controlled by that thing," emphasizing how her body was directly connected to her sense of autonomy and control. Similarly, Marika's ideas, physical traits, and actions contrast to her other half's. Yet, Marika could not escape the Greater Will, and her body remains a vessel for its power in the end. Ranni's transition from a corporeal to a spiritual form emphasizes her individualism and rebellion against legislative control over her body.

Ranni takes control of her life and autonomy of her body back by transitioning into a spiritual form. One's body plays an important role in how they view themselves in and apart from the world. As a vessel of the Elden Ring, Marika saw herself as a puppet to the Greater Will, and knew that her body was what chained her to it. Ranni also understood the importance of the body and its connection to one's identity. She changed her red hair that signified her father, and instead donned a blue appearance that shines like that of the moon's light. Her transition was only the first step to her forging her own path and finding some kind of happiness, despite the mess in the Lands Between.

[heavensarcher]

*spoilers* SOTE Lore/story Thoughts

I'm not through it all yet - I'm avoiding various parts of this DLC which is, I might add, beating me black and blue - but I do have some lore thoughts.

I don't hate the idea of Miquella being a lil fucked up - it matches with every other member of their family at this point - but I have really enjoyed all the St. Trina stuff! The cross in the fissure saying I abandon here my love then finding the remains of her slumbering in the depths was actually beautiful. This other aspect of them, this part that represented their love and kindness for others - abandoned for their greater plan, praying for you to stop their key aspect

This deepening of charm to bewitch and sleep to eternal sleep of death has done some wild things to their characterisation. I don't know if I vibe with it fully but its certainly changed Miquella from being this kind of do no wrong figure to someone who has always had darker aspects, even if they chose mostly compassion

It puts into question a lot of the relationships we have thought Miquella has had with others (family and otherwise) because now its a little unclear to what extent they wanted to have that relationship or to what extent it was overexaggerated by Miquella for their plans.

This all said it now means the entire Marika/Radagon line is pretty irredeemable in various ways so born it all down I guess

Messmer is a little depressing in a way. Here's a child who did as their Mother told them, only to be locked away in this endless war growing crazier by the moment and becoming beholden to the Abyssal Serpent. His lines when you die, particularly in 2nd phase, tell you this man fully thinks he's damning himself to kill you. Even if he is questioning his Mother's plan, it's only in the way that lets him carry on with the last command he actually heard from her. Her blessing says shes now entirely abandoned this child that destoryed entire civilisations because she asked for it. Its sad as fuck

Rellana is interesting to me because her remembrance states she was a Carian princess that ditched to stick by Messmer's side - seemingly because she knew his path following his Mother would lead him to ruin. I wonder if she followed pre-Radagon betrayal? Like Messmer in his looks felt very Radagon/Renala child to me and boy howdy another one off with the snakes - Rykard clearly had an inspiration. It also solves the mystery of why snakes were so hated before Rykard became snake - they were either tied to Messmer OR the Abyssal Serpent (hi I'd like to know more about this outer god please and thank)

I really like that the hornsent have the ability to chant into existance these powerful forms. Like, together they lift up others of them to demi-god status. The Dancing Lion being this actual piloted beast (a la Chinese lion dances) with 2 priests(?) controlling it, chanted into existance by the Hornsent Grandma is this awesome idea and it was terrifying continuing to summon new elements which scared me :D

Hey who the fuck are those massive tanky bitches everywhere and what's the lore on those lil bastards. Just them and their fucked up dogs. Seemingly very Mohg and the Omens coded? Like some of them have a "leader" with something reminescent of Mohg's trident which implies a connection to the formless mother and they have started like eating each other which seems her vibe.

As a sidenote - Easter Eggs abound which I really enjoy. The fact you can drain the Church District a la DS1, there's an auto crossbow a la gael's, those beast claws are bloodborne, there's a few armour sets that are black knight coded or fume knight coded, the monk moves are very reminiscent of the senpou monks, Gaius is very Gyoubu Oniwa

I didn't really want FINGER LORE but here we are with FINGERLORE THANKS YMIR. So the fingers being born is horrific to me. I did think Ymir had some interesting takes on the fingers being led astray and having come from a mother that was wrong (and then getting dropped on Mother Of Fingers was....horrifying). They in themselves are very bloodborne-y which is neat.

It was always very prominent in the base game, but this continuing narrative of conquest and destruction is still very satisfying to me. (Its very christianity coded oops). I think it was more...hazed over in the base game? Not in a bad way but in a "lot at all this literal gold! we'll plaster it over the blood and bones so you can't see them" kinda way that made it all the more dark. Like for the most part this is a conquest that won so completely there's little left to say otherwise. In the DLC we see the extremes of that war. This is a conquest still on-going. There's blood, ash, bone, and fire everywhere. The entire continent is covered in GRAVESITES. It's this incredibly violent "we haven't had time to rewrite history as the victors yet" and it is entirely narratively satisfying that in this shadow place, all the cracks are showing.

[explosionshark]

Need to make friends with more nerdy straight guys I think, none of the gay chicks I know give a shit about the dumb fantasy books I read

[izar-tarazed]

So few people know this, but whenever Ensha has to report to Gideon ...

... he will discreetly stand on some books to appear just a little bit taller.

[milktian]

gwyndolin is such a fascinating character to me. he has such transgender vibes but in like,,, the same way a circle comes back to the beginning. he's like mtftm to me. a girl boy. a boy girl. what even is gender anymore. genderfuck icon. love that guy.

I don't know the intricacies of how the fandom - specifically the queer part of it - treat the topic of gwyndolin's gender so like,,, forgive me. he's very gender to me but in a confusing way that also makes perfect sense

[roachymochi]

*trying to piece together the timeline*

When did Marika get tits though ?