#because what other secret does radagon have to hide?

[nishihii]

rennala marika toxic yuri i cant get you out of my head

[theukon-dos]

Great analysis from the both of you. But there are a few more puzzle pieces that I think we can insert into here. 

First, in regard to Melina’s age, I think we can get a good idea of when she was born by looking at who she’s associated with. Specifically, she has some very heavy ties to the twin prodigies, Malenia and Miquella. 

First, the names. It’s no secret that both Fromsoft and George R.R. Martian like to group associated characters together by giving them closely related names. 

On From’s side, Gwyn named at least 2 of his kids after him, Gwyndolin and Gwynevere. Siegmeyer is the father of Sieglinde and the ancestor of Siegward. And the twin princes in DS3 are named Lothric and Lorian respectively. These are just off the top of my head, there are probably more if you look a bit deeper. 

And meanwhile, Martin flat out said that he likes giving related characters similar names. In a blog post from March of 2022, he wrote, and I quote:

“Oh, and as long as I am setting stuff straight, there’s a weird story all over the internet about how I “hid” my initials in ELDEN RING because… ah.. some of the characters have names beginning with R, or G, or M.   To which I say, “Eh?  What?  Really?”   This was news to me.    I have been writing and publishing stories since 1971, and I suspect that I have been giving characters names beginning with R and G and M since the start.   Along with the other twenty-three letters of the alphabet as well    Coming up with names is hard, especially since A SONG OF ICE & FIRE uses so many of them, and I am fond of giving family members and close kin names that have something in common… but really, why would I have to hide my name inside the game?   My name is right there ON the game, as one of the creators.    Hey, ELDEN RING is exciting enough, no need to make up stuff.”

So in this in mind, we can look at how it manifests in Elden Ring. 

Marika’s first born where the twin Omens Mohg and Morgott.

Her union with Godfrey also resulted in Godwyn, and later Godefroy and Godrick.

Renalla and Radagon had 3 children, Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard. 

And Marika’s final confirmed batch of kids where the twins Malenia and Miquella. 

Needless to say, when you look at Melina’s name, it is very, very close to Malenia and Miquella. To the point where Melina and Malenia are very frequently mixed up. And knowing how names are used in Elden Ring, this seems to imply that they’re the ones she’s Melina’s closest related too.

There are also the butterflies of the lands between. In particular, there are three butterflies the player can find and collect. 

First, we have the Aeonian Butterfly. And the game ties these so heavily to Malenia that it feels redundant to even explain it. 

Their description states that it’s believed they came from the Goddess of Rot herself, the name “Aeonian” is a clear reference to Malenia’s scarlet Aeonia. And in phase 2, Malenia creates so butterflies that it would put the margarine industry out of business. I really don’t need to go on. 

Next, we have the Nascent butterfly. 

While not as heavily associated with Miquella as the Aeonian butterflies are for Malenia, the description for this item does mention that they “look like they’ve just emerged from their cocoon for their entire lives”. So they always look young, Similar to how Miquella was cursed with eternal youth. 

And finally, we have the smoldering butterflies. 

These butterflies are said to be always on fire, similar to how Melina is “burned and bodyless”. And the description mentions that they’re used as kindling, just as Melina is a kindling maiden to light the giant’s forge.

So we have 3 butterflies, each with ties to a specific character, all these characters having a similar name, all these characters are cursed in some way, and 2 of the characters being known siblings. It doesn’t feel like much of a assume that all 3 characters tie closely together. 

The butterfly theory might also explain why Melina’s in the state she’s in. Both Malenia and Miquella where cursed because their parents, Radagon and Marika, are the same person. And incest tends to cause a lot of issues in general. So if Melina’s also the daughter of Radagon and Marika, then her curse must be one of flame. Her butterfly is always on fire just as the others are rotten and forever young. It explains why she’s “burned and bodyless”, her curse burned it away leaving her a spirit. And explains her heavy associations with fire in general. 

And while on the topic of fire, it’s worth looking into that more aswell. Becuase Fire in Elden Ring is most frequently associated with the concepts of Death and Destruction, particularly to the gods.

Fire as a concept is considered taboo by the Golden Order. Prophets who see visions of flame are banished by the order. Probably because, y’know. Tree.

The God Devouring Serpent lives on a volcano, and Rykard; who sought to fight against not just the golden order but the Erdtree itself developed magma sorceries from the volcano. 

Fire is an effective countermeasure to Scarlet Rot, a plague manifested by the God of Rot.

The concept of chaos and Entropy manifests as the Frenzied Flame.

The Flame of the Fell God was feared by the Golden Order due to being powerful enough to Burn the Erdtree.

And most importantly, unlike Maliketh who channeled the power of Destined Death through his blade, The Gloam-Eyed Queen and her Godskins channeled it through their Black Flame. 

So with that in mind, Melina bearing a curse of flame alone puts her in tense contention with the Golden Order, and puts her a step closer to the GEQ And her Black flame. 

And finally, I’d like to mention that prophesy you mentioned. 

“The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death.“

This does seem to be a prophesy, as it hasn’t happened yet by the time we can hear these words. But I don’t think Melina’s the one to walk along side the flame. Rather, she is the flame, and the rest of it is talking about us, the tarnished. We travel with Melina who eventually uses herself to burn the erdtree, and then we end up in Farum Azula where we find destined death. 

But the thing about prophesies is that they often have a lot of different meanings or possibilities. In this case, “the flame” could also be the Frenzied Flame, as you can also use it’s power to burn the Erdtree instead of Melina. And continuing off that could result in “Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death” could be referencing Melina’s promise to deliver it upon us shall we become the Lord of Frenzied Flame. Which would make her a Godslayer ala the Gloam-Eyed Queen. 

So to recap the important stuff:

>Melina associates herself with Destined Death a lot if she’s alive for the Frenzied Flame ending. >There is significant evidence suggesting that Melina is another birth-cursed child of Marika and Radagon. >Fire is heavily associated with death, particularly the death of the gods. And Melina is associated with fire. 

There is a lot of room for interpretation here, obviously. It’s a Fromsoft game. But me? I don’t think that Melina is The Gloam-Eyed Queen. Just her reincarnation or successor. Possibly as a consequence of Marika and Radagon’s union.

I know I've been an ass about it in the past, and I am sorry to the people that had actually put thought into the theory and weren't echoing YT videos. But if anyone still wants to share, I'd like to hear why folks think Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen.

If the argument is simply that her closed eye colour is gloam-y, I'm sorry, I'll need some more reasons accompanying it to take it into account.

[maranull]

there’s a very strong connection between Ranni and Melina and I can’t really figure out what it is... so, here’s a thoughts dump:

they both have similar symbols under their closed eyes this is wrong, that’s a connection Melina might have with the Snow Witch, Ranni’s mentor, and not Ranni directly.

both had/have sacrificed their bodies to their ambitions/ purposes (Ranni literally died, and Melina is scared, I think from burns, even before she lights the Forge)

Melina has the exact same moveset that the Black Knives have and her blade is basically the same as theirs, minus the Rune of Death add on

Both have an affinity for Torrent and treat him like an old friend

Assuming Melina is Torrent’s master before the Tarnished, Ranni says: “I was entrusted this, for thee. By Torrent's former master. Tis a bell for calling forth spirits.” so there’s definitely at least some communication between them. But this does bring up the question: why didn’t Melina give us the bell herself, if she is the former master Ranni mentions?

If you are a heartless monster (kidding) and go with the madness ending, Melina’s appearance changes and she reveals her closed eye to be an icy blue, while the one she’s been using so far fades as if blinded

I’m also fairly certain that Melina’s mother (”I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago”) is Marika. hell, Melina could be similar to Radagon in that she’s part of Marika’s...whole deal

so I got, under the cut, a couple theories to the connection Ranni and Melina have, apart from just Torrent and the high possibility of being step-sisters (or half-sisters, depending how much individuality you give Radagon)

1. Melina is bullshiting us about following her mother’s purpose and is actively working with Ranni, towards Ranni’s new age. The similar eye-symbols are their pact. Marika is Melina’s mother, and Melina got her scars escaping her influence or even by being the one that stole the Rune of Death for Ranni. Melina trained the Black Knives, hence the same moveset and weapon art.

So in this interpretation, Melina and Ranni have been working together for ages and are both pushing towards Ranni’s free age.

2. Melina is Ranni, Ranni is Melina. The same way Radagon is himself but also Marika. That weird duplication thing could be an ability of the Empyreans or something. Or when Ranni first died, her soul split in two, one part of her taking the doll form and the other wandering “burned and bodyless“. This explains Melina’s form in the madness ending, assuming Ranni and Melina merge then. The mother Melina mentions could also be Ranni, in the sense that Melina was created from Ranni’s essence.

This however doesn’t really connect with Melina’s end, unless Ranni, the demigoddess that chose the Snow Witch’s body to model her new doll form, is somehow also able to command fire at the level Melina does.

No, it could connect. Radagon’s last act during the Shattering was the opposite of Marika’s (attempting to repair the Elden Ring she shattered). If Ranni is snow, Melina could very well be fire. And this also fits their personalities too, I think. Ranni is passionate and she takes the role of a protagonist in the story, while Melina hides her emotions for the most part and acts in a very important but supporting role. It fits.

3. This anon’s post in the wiki:

transcript:

“Here's my smoothbrain take on why Ranni and Melina look similar and have one eye closed on opposite sides: They're both modeled after Marika. In Melina's case, this is because Marika created her and gave her the task to burn down the Erdtee. You could say she is an aspect of Marika's being, or an agent of hers. However, for obvious reasons, I don't think this is true for Ranni. At least not exactly. I personally believe Ranni's secret mentor - the snow witch she encountered when she was young - was another agent of Marika. But what does that have to do with anything? Well, as we all know, Ranni is in a doll's body, and that doll is modeled after her mentor. Don't you think it's suspicious that Ranni's mentor would look so similar to one of Marika's agents we meet in the game? To me, it seems like the snow witch might also have been an aspect of Marika that was carrying out her will. Perhaps she even influenced Ranni to steal the Rune of Death that way. Now, if you take into consideration that it's heavily implied Ranni isn't actually Rennala's, but rather Radagon's and Marika's daughter, then it starts to seem like Marika is the mastermind behind the Age of the Stars ending. I hypothesize that Marika knew of the Carians and their fate, saw it as the only way of breaking free from vassalship to the Greater Will, and thus decided to use Rennala's line as a cuckoo (sound familiar?) would another bird's nest. Radagon married Rennala, gifted her the amber egg that somehow contained Ranni, and Marika sent one of her agents to influence the young Empyrean, causing her to rebel against the Two Fingers. This also makes perfect sense when you look at how affectionately Ranni picks up fractured Marika's head in her ending: She's holding both her mother and mentor figure, who sacrificed herself so that Lands the Between may one day be free from the influence from Outer Gods. This ended up being about more than just why Melina and Ranni look similar, but screw it, I'm not editing this.”

The only things I don’t agree with here is that Marika plotted the seemingly unneeded death of her firstborn and that Ranni isn’t Rennala’s daughter. Rennala is obsessed with trying to resurrect Ranni(’s old body) and Ranni herself is very protective of her.

~

Will add more through reblogs, or a new post if I think anything but that’s where my head’s at for now. Personally I adopt the first one as my understanding, mostly cause I want to imagine Ranni and Melina chilling together.