#due to the rules of the world?

[exhausted-archivist]

I Think Solas Was Never Supposed to Succeed in Tearing Down the Veil

This has been sitting in my drafts for like.... weeks. And I'm kinda just chucking it out there because I want to talk about it but I also don't think there will ever be a time where this can be discussed without strong reactions. So, I'm just gonna treat this with half seriousness and be kinda general? I'm down to discuss but I'm not here to deal with the pro/con Veilguard sentiments. I just wanna talk about the game in a mostly analytical way.

I think Solas poses a lot of cool narrative restrictions, contradictions, and irritations. He is a wonderful antagonist – easy to be against what he's doing but also you can, at points, see where he's coming from. Can still think he's smart/dumb/irrational/ect, but still see the logic. Whether its flawed or not.

That said. The endgame for Dragon Age was likely never going to maintain the Veil coming down. Now let me explain before you boo me for being right. For legal reasons this is a joke.

I've seen people talking about how it would be nice to see what Thedas would have looked like with the veil down and lamenting how a lot of things happened off-screen even though in any scenario the destruction of Thedas would have still largely been off screen.

But I always just think about how the narrative was pretty heavy handed in how it has always been characterized as a bad thing, a sort of fail state at best. Wiping out all life on the continent at worse.

Which leads me to the conclusion:

Solas was likely never supposed to succeed in tearing down the veil and it was never depicted as a good thing if he succeeded.

Now I'm going to stick some stuff under the cut, because spoilers for datv, but we get at least a sliver of what they were looking at in terms of scope prior to the switch to multiplayer, and even what they were thinking of on the heels of Trespasser before datv became Joplin.

To clarify the general timeline for datv you have: Prior to official project start (roughly 2014-2015) -> Joplin (2015-2017) -> Morrison (2017-2021) -> Morrison Single-player (Veilguard) (2021-2024)

I also, and I cannot stress this enough, concept art is not cut content. None of what is shown should be considered cut content. They were exploring possibilities and most of these came in very early in pre-production. They were not carried past pre-production for many reasons we don't know and might not ever fully understand.

Anyways, I'mma start with something I think is missed by a lot of people:

Most (if not all) of Thedas as we know it wouldn't be there. Solas stressed that the tearing down of the veil would kill a lot - if not all people - in Thedas. There is no guarantee for elves or dwarves, and certainly not humans and Qunari/Vashoth. This is stressed heavily in Tevinter Nights when Charter talks to him. (Emphasis by me)

She shook her head helplessly. “Because you told the Inquisitor that you were going to destroy this world,” she said. “Did you expect us not to try to stop you?” He sighed. “It was a moment of weakness. I told myself that it was because you all deserved to know, to live a few years in peace before my ritual was complete. Before this world ended.” “Then perhaps we are not the only ones you lied to,” Charter said. “You do not have to do this.” His look pinned her. “I have no choice. What I am doing will save this world, and those like you—the elves who still remain—may even find it better, when it is done.” Charter considered lying, but then she thought of Tessa, with her quick smile and strong hands. “There are those I care for who would not.”

For reference of those who haven't read the comics, Tessa is Charter's human partner.

He stresses this both when he mentions it in Trespasser. He knows his path to do so ends in death, he wanted the world to be at some degree of peace before most of it died - its why he helps reveal the Dragon's Breath plot.

Okay, so what about datv? They could have changed their mind, a lot of stuff changed between what we were given in Trespasser (2015) and Tevinter Nights (2020).

Glad you asked!

So, what we know from the artbook is that in this post-Tresspasser/pre-Joplin era concept art, they explored the veil coming down in a different way than what we got final game. Matt Rhodes also posted the piece with the artbook caption that this was a pitch that involved Solas summoning a titan beneath Minrathous to tear down the veil. [Source]

An artist's pitch for a potential end-game. Solas has raised the titan upon which the city of Minrathous had been built, in order to use its strength to tear open the veil.

So not only did they explore Solas continuing to use titans for his purposes. Repeating a sin he has regrets for – which would have been such an interesting thing to talk about with Harding or even to throw back on how Solas still throws away his morals and values because he's barreling down the "ends justify the means" highway.

But this also says a lot about how much he does not care to about the consequences on the modern people. I also think it negates what growth he could possibly has and would be in conflict with the established fact that he does try to mitigate the damage of his ritual.

Because Titans are massive. So much so that Valta talks about it in her notes after joining with the Titan. So massive that a Warden on her calling gets lost in one. Summoning one to the surface would be cataclysmic at best. These beings are larger than mountains, its even suggested some are as large as entire mountain ranges both prior to and in datv. Not to mention Titans prior to datv are at least 14 miles below sea level (deep as the Mariana's trench) according to the da ttrpg and the map of the Descent dlc.

Summoning something that large from so deep, on a coastal area would cause so much wide spread damage... It is irredeemable. Its unjustifiable. Which would make any positive ending for Solas feel undeserved and forced upon you. So I get why this wouldn't have pushed forward. Its too loaded and irredeemable that even if someone wanted to pursue saving him from himself – you can't do that after something like this.

I still think its a cool concept that also really throws Solas' whole "I'm not a god" and "the Evanuris aren't gods" thing into the spotlight. Because the series has repeatedly asked us to consider what we consider to be a god, and if we're being told this isn't an act of a god... what in Thedas is? But that's a whole other post.

Joplin Era Art

Concept art shows they were already exploring a world state where at the end of the game, Solas mends the veil. It is not labeled as a fail state. [Source: The Art of Dragon Age The Veilguard]

Tranquilizing himself. Solas recloses the veil around himself and the blight.

This next one is considered a fail state.

This sequence was an early fail state. Solas succeeds in his ritual, life as Thedas knows it has come to an end, and the ancient elves return.

This sequence of boards shows Solas meditating and triggering an explosion (the iconic one to Dragon Age that has appeared in every game, and we see in Trespasser. The beam and then shockwave.) You see people standing around an animal and then when the shock wave they are on the ground dead. Then it cuts to a colour row of frames where a halla is grazing and the spirit bodies of the ancient elves appear on the horizon.

Solas succeeding in tearing down the veil was always a bad end. People were to die in mass quantities. Everyone would be gone. South falling to the blight? Small potatoes, as no one from the previous games exists anymore.

Another exploration of a world state successfully stopping Solas shows him making Ghilan'nain and then himself tranquil as he seals the Veil around himself and the blight.

Solas tranquilizes Ghilan'nain (above) and, as his last act, performs the same procedure on himself.

We see him tranquilizing an early concept form of Ghil, and in the second image we see the same sealing imagery of the veil as the second piece of concept art that had him closing the veil.

Defeated, Solas enters the Black City alone.

Even early on in Joplin, Solas was going to return to the Black City. Solavellan or not, his defeat seemed to always remove him from the waking world. Which is interesting to consider.

After that, the artbook – and any other concept art that has been shared – doesn't show any indication that the broad strokes of what was laid out in Joplin changed with Morrison. Neither the multiplayer nor reverting back to single player.

Solas doesn't succeed to bring down the veil and end game Solas always ends up beyond the veil.

I do wonder if the how changed at some point, but I find it interesting that we have no public indication that they carried the idea of Solas succeeding in any shape or form through production. Or that he doesn't mend the veil in end game.

Which lines up with what was telegraphed from Inquisition forward.

To me, Solas never felt like he was supposed to succeed because the narrative made it very overt that what he was doing was devastating. It felt that there was no coming back from it. Thedas would be inherently so different – and you'd have to commit to either it coming down in all world states or none at all because it would be such a divergent thing.

I think the veil coming down is a fascinating concept and definitely one to end a series so you have to start somewhere else – either so far in the future or in the past.

[swordscleric]

I can't stop thinking about the post from a few days ago about how Critical Role has been great at doing personal faith but didn't put the necessary work in to discuss the religious/god angle of c3 in-depth. Like the fact that Cardinal Respa was linked to both the Dawnfather and the Chained Oblivion is, on a personal level, very interesting (fallen/corrupted priest goes hard) but like does that mean that there's a Papacy somewhere in Exandria dedicated to the Dawnfather? If so, are there more cardinals who ordain the bishops of the Dawnfather? Are there Conclave-level intrigues going on in the Dawnfather's Sistine Chapel? Why is the Dawnfather so Christianity-coded in vibes alone if there's no actual outline of his religious organisations? With Downfall the Dawnchild/Dawnfather thing makes the allusions to Christ as Son of God co-existing with the Father textual - was there a Dawnfather Schism around whether the Dawnchild was a separate mortal? Was there a Reformation about how the Dawnfather's Pope kept selling indulgences? Is that why the priest of the Dawnfather Grog & Pike offer a drink to doesn't partake because of a cultural shift between Protestant-Temperance-League-coded and Catholic-coded Dawnfather congregations? Why do I have so many questions about the religious organisation of one of the most important Prime Deities in Exandria and to Critical Role's 3 campaigns? How on earth were the cast (and us as the viewers!) meant to care about the gods if all they had were "really tall kings" instead of interrogating how religious organisations provide both a place of healing and community to a wide range of people and also a place of horrific harm and abuse for a wide range of people?

[quietwingsinthesky]

it’s that no one ever believed him that gets to me the most. this is a society of telepaths. and yet when the doctor finds out that the drums are real, he’s surprised. the master is surprised, elated, by the confirmation that he’s hearing something that’s really there, that this thing that’s been following him and hurting him for so long is real.

after a certain point, given that the master is Really Fucking Good at mind control and such, you have to imagine that no one could just pick up on the noise in his head with a little general telepathy. he had to choose to let the doctor in to share it. and. and okay. we need to put aside him striving to be The Best At Controlling People’s Minds in the context of him having his mind violated as a child because if i think about these two things in relation to each other i’ll throw up.

but there has to have been a point before he was so accomplished that he couldn’t have defended his own mind as easily. that he couldn’t keep someone, anyone, from delving into his head and hearing the drums. which means i must conclude, because we find out who put them in his head at all and it’s the most powerful guy on gallifrey, that when he was younger, the people around him did know. they could hear the drums. they could figure out what was done to him. but they did nothing, they said nothing, they told him he was hearing things. because if the lord president wanted to use a child for his own ends, who was going to stand up and stop him? easier to sweep it under the rug. and the master lived with that for so long that finally having just one other person hear the drums was a shock to him.

[not-too-many-eyes]

Tbh I am a bit humored by this because irl The Philippines is Extremely Disaster Prone. Bagyo season is coming up soon (The season where 2398473298489 typhoons hit every week) and there's currently a heatwave right now and also earthquakes are pretty common here and also the volcanons and also-

[doekimakura]

"The 'me' that you see wasn't enough, so you leave."

I posted another art here before relating Sigma's relationship with [Spoiler man] and why it destroyed me from the inside out HAHAHA

but this time im adding some not-so-tiny rant under here bc their strained relationship is so personal to me IM SORRY BOYS FOR RUINING YOU but this is an AU anyway so i get to go ham

(also fuck it im revealing spoiler man)

"Haru no Sekibaku" / "The Desolation of Spring" is one of my early Inabakumori songs which depicts thrown away relationship/friendship. Depends on how you see it, the singer laments but also cursed the relationship and the person who left them once their use ran out and, well,

Sigma's whole thing since MCSS has always been a 'tool' initially. He is appointed to serve Raha and to prioritize their happiness over himself. While Raha was thankful for his 110% effort, there was no actual reciprocation for all that effort, while Sigma wished to share a more 'special' relationship with someone who he thinks has feelings for him.

In a way, he expected Raha to love him/show love back to him, whereas Rahauel/Steven does not do the same due to their initial position and the trouble it would bring.

(TBHHHHH my plans for Sigma was initially different than who he is now. Aka, i didnt really plan this out properly since Sigma was supposed to just be a yandere trope villain who appears time and time again. I DIDNT MEAN TO MAKE HIM FLESHED OUT INITIALLY. MY GOD, HE WAS PLANNED TO BE A SHALLOW VILLAIN BFSGVFDSF which is why all this extra backstory planning were last minute, yet they are so good that i couldn't help BUT include them. It's why their conflict is so messy and confusing to me, because I think I planned it very poorly and didn't connect the dots right and ended up feeling weird about it.)

(Teehee)

bUT LISTEN the song basically just hits them right. For Sigma, it was a declaration of remorse for all the wasted effort and the useless feeling of chasing a one-sided relationship and the bitterness of having that innocent yet entitlement tarnished when Steven rejected him after the first BBQ event.

But on the other side of the coin, it also lowkey applied to Steven/Raha, who did their best to be accepted by an uncaring mother who wanted nothing but tangible results and victory over everything.

So all that remains are lingering feelings, yet also a bridge burnt to the ground from both ends.

And what makes it worse is that Sigma refuses to talk to Steven out of that bitterness, disappointment, and also ego after saying he will leave Svallin forever. On the other hand, Steven avoids him out of guilt, or puts on a mask and throwing shallow quips at Sigma whenever they meet because he realized the severity of what he did and weighed by guilt over it, thinking he deserves someone better instead of babysitting a weak, 'helpless' asshole like him.

...

Just kiss already.

[t-u-i-t-c]

me

[freckliedan]

You think they are already married?

no dude we would know. that's public record in the UK and people still monitor it.

[lord-shitbox]

Rikuo's night form appears older than his day form because 13 is the age of maturity for yokai, so when he's a yokai he's closer to an adult & therefore looks more like 17 or so.

however, after 13, yokai aging seems to slow down Drastically, so like, do you think that after he's well into his adult years (by human standards) his night form will continue to look 18ish. 45 year old nura rikuo working long hours at the office and coming home to unwind and aging backwards 20+ years for six hours.

[hide-in-imagination]

Okay, after much deliberating, I think I have my astrology headcanons for Simbar.

Simón: Sagittarius Rising, Pisces Sun, Libra Moon

Ámbar: Scorpio Rising, Leo Sun, Leo Moon

(yes, double Leo, nothing else seemed to fit, sorry)

You'll all be happy to know that these moons are very compatible! 👀

Simón was originally Leo Rising in my mind because there's something about his demeanor that just screams Fire Sign to me, but upon much deliberation, I gathered that he doesn't care enough about his image to be Leo. I still needed something fiery there though, because he tends to get very confrontational when it comes to defending his friends and what he thinks it's right, so I did some research, and apparently Sagittarius have a rep for being self-righteous, so I was like, "Oh, okay, perfect!" 😂 The one thing that doesn't fit is that they tend to be kind of commitment-phobic, but I think that just gets nullified by his other placements, especially his Libra Moon because Libras literally crave a partner.

I think Ámbar's Scorpio Rising comes out in, one, her magnetic presence, and two, her reluctance at showing vulnerability. Scorpios will need to really trust a person to really open up. There's also the death-and-rebirth energy that always comes with Scorpio, which, we can all agree Ámbar went through throughout the show, and last but not least, the grudge-holding 😂

The Leo for Ámbar I think it's pretty obvious, so no explanation needed there. Simón's Pisces can be summarized in Tortured Poet energy 😂 Very creative, tends to suffer a lot, sometimes it feels like they even like to suffer, but they gather a lot of artistic inspiration from it. They're very emotional, compassionate, kind souls. And seriously, ARTISTIC. Pisces eat and breathe art.

There's also these paragraphs I found if you want to read them:

I might change my mind about any of these placements in the future, but for the time being, I'm content with this.

[lightblueminecraftorchid]

Had a productive hour and a half! Knocked out my methods, results, and figures (the easy part of this paper). Now to find more sources so I can have a cogent introduction and discussion…

[creature-stage]

thing that id do if i wasn't lazy: raptor red-inspired fanfic about hunter's life prior to meeting NSH, to the events of its campaign and its eventual fate

titled Slugcat Red of course

[daydreamerdrew]

Marvel Mystery Comics (1939) #7

[aceparagoned]

@amalanexus replied to your post:

Dante - Smooch & Ask on a Date. Casually gonna break the rules and pick two choices tbh.

Guess which legendary devil hunter is getting a smooch back along with quite the strong bear hug! "When and where for the date, babe? You know my schedule's clear for you!"

[castleinthemist]

playing xbcx and jumping and hopping and falling down into new zones like hahaha yes i got here! and then looking around and seeing every enemy is lvl 50 and higher and my lvl13 arse should NOT be here: 'ah'

[arolesbianism]

Did some abno fights in ruina today which means more nugget slots which means I got to write more dialogue for them let's gooooo 🎉🎉🎉

[onefey]

you're going about your normal day when, suddenly, surprise! you've been pokémon mystery dungeon'd!

unfortunately, due to budget cuts, the pokémon assigning quiz has been canceled. instead, you must spin THE WHEEL, assigning you a random, unevolved, non-legendary and non-mythical pokémon. you must now go on some sort of world-saving adventure as this pokémon. good luck!

tell me in the tags what you rolled, and how you feel about it - for bonus points, you can spin the wheel again for (or just take your pick of) a pokémon to be your partner.

bonus rules:

you're not shiny unless the wheel tells you you're shiny

take your pick of regional forms and evolutions (for example, if you roll vulpix, it's up to you whether that means normal or alolan vulpix)

apply whatever logic you like with regards to gender

have fun and be yourself!