#dsmp misogyny

[emi-writings]

Can I just say I am so sick and tired of reading fics where Kristin is dead?

Like, the writer usually wants justification for Philza being Techno, Tommy and Wilbur's father without adoption or fostering...

But they also want that prime Fridge Angst.

Because after all, everyone in the year 2023 knows that fridging women is the best way to make people like your works.

It totally doesn't instantly piss me off every time one of these men whine and bitch about how their mother's/wife's death affects them without talking about her like a person!

It's not like adding Kristin in could actually add in some variety to the most populated relationship dynamic in all of MCYT, some of which are starting to sound a little samey.

Especially not after she officially became canon in the lore, interacting with other characters and everything!

[dykecubes]

something else I wanted to point out in my post abt misogyny behind the scenes on the dsmp is how, when Niki first came forward very shortly after the dsmp ended to say there was a lot of misogyny from major male ccs behind the scenes, dt fans quickly accepted this as true because she didn't mention any names so it was easy to point fingers at wilbur or other men on the server and pretend her allegation didn't also very much implicate the dt, now that Connor, Sophie, Andi, and others have backed up Niki's claims of misogyny and confirmed that the dt were very much perpetrators of it as well they've suddenly stopped believing her

like idk I feel like nobody has mentioned Niki being basically the first to come out about the misogyny behind the scenes at all and how much of what she said lines up with what Connor said at the beginning of his stream, I just feel like it highlights the hypocrisy and contradictions from dt fans trying to justify why their faves couldn't possibly be perpetrators of misogyny

[fernlessbastard]

You guys aren't ready for the conversation of how Quackity sincerely loves bottoming

I'm not at all saying he wants to always bottom, I'd say he still prefers topping most of the time, but whenever he's down to get something up his ass, he's DOWN to get something up his ass, if you know what I mean

(the switching applies to position only, tho. I sincerely can't see him genuinely enjoying subbing, and neither can I see Wilbur actually domming unless they're both being influenced by years of internalised homophobia and patriarchy and all that bullshit, but even then it's just cringe and they're just both pretending it's not cause it's easier that way (and the sex itself isn't like, actively bad, not to mention that it provides some degree of an emotional connection which they both desperately crave), plus it's still basically vanilla just with a little bit of dirty talk - that's how i see them in Pogtopia (with Q bottoming - if you want another huge post on their Pogtopia dynamic let me know cause I have so many thoughts on it and how their traumas affected them and their relationship and how complicated it all was))

That being said, man's 10000% intensely fucking traumatised

(tw personal hc and following the logical path from canon implications idfk)(also exaggeration) like, if he were ACTIVELY evil and had ZERO (even personal) moral code, then the amount of anger he feels towards Schlatt for taking away the enjoyment of it is probably enough to ignore all ethics and torture Dream so utterly unimaginably he ends up violating entirety of the Geneva convention, and then having 50 new ones written specifically to condemn his actions, just to break every single one of those as well on the way, just so that Dream gives him the revival book so that he can re-kill Schlatt with his own hands

Also he absolutely re-traumatised himself with Karl and Sapnap cause he was for sure like "I shouldn't be having an intense panic attack right now, I'm going to push all my energy into pretending that everything's ok and that I don't want to cry and scream and rip my skin off. I'm just being silly and dramatic anyway ha ha" which just resulted in them unknowingly hurting him all over again. I take no criticism. Q's got MASSIVE communication issues when it comes to validating his feelings and Karl and Sapnap are "everything's fine"-ing way too much on the daily. And whole Quackity should work on his issues, it IS a partner's job to at least try to check up on the other(s) (and vice versa), and Karl and Sapnap clearly always preferred to ignore any hints that something might be wrong as a general life rule. The relationship was immaturely focused on "fun and good vibes" from the very start, so any bad topic obviously felt out of place. It started off with lack of communication and it died cause of it too.

That's also actually why I will always firmly stand by the fact that Wilbur (during las Nevadas era) is the only person with whom he could ever heal, btw (yes, including Charlie as a hypothetical romantic interest). Cause Schlatt's abusive, Karl and Sapnap "deserve better" in his eyes (so he pretends to be fine until shit hits the fan and everything falls apart)(that also applies to his hypothetical relationship with Charlie). But with Wilbur there's enough distance to feel safe and call out his bullshit without retaliation in form of abuse, and on the other hand he doesn't care to pretend to be perfect - hell, he probably purposefully shoves his issues onto the guy cause he's like "you think you're so strong and stubborn you can handle me??? You think???? Think again." (Wilbur does the same btw). They're purposefully trying to push each other away, destroy the "relationship", show each other just how fucked up they are. They're psycho-competitive. Even being the first one to be "too much" and get abandoned turns into a competition.

But it backfires. They bond. They're real with each other. They're stubborn, they're determined enough to stay just long enough to see each other's walls crack. And once they do, the feelings are quick to spill. They're each other's only people to be GENUINELY themselves with - no masks, no manipulation, no bullshit. Just themselves. And that's the first, CRUCIAL step to developing a healthy relationship (or at least healthier than all their other relationships).

So with Wilbur he probably only tries to bottom either once he ACTUALLY begins to feel like he could maybe try to reclaim it, or even if he tries it in a self-destructive way, (considering their history+patriarchy and shit) Wilbur'd know and care enough to realise Q's just trying to hurt himself. And as shitty as Wilbur can be sometimes, he's not a bad person - he'd stop Q if things'd go too far, or give him (at least a temporary) safe space to safely go through a breakdown without hurting himself like that. He wouldn't take advantage of such a low moment, and he would know enough to recognise it's a low moment in the first place.

Anyway once they figure all that out and Quackity's genuinely comfortable with it again, it's for sure not uncommon for him to enjoy some nice aggressive pounding, all the while having one hand in Wilbur's hair, pulling it to hold him close, and the other hand on Wilbur's neck, lightly choking him as they're intensely making out

All that to say Q's a massive sadist but he's also a huge massochist and he'll absolutely have Wilbur on a nice leash and call him a pathetic, desperate, horny dog or something like that as the man's (purposefully) sloppily thrusting in and out of him, causing the most "carnage" he can (Wilbur will be double fisting Quackity and Quackity will be just looking at him unfazed like "your hands are small" (they're not)/hj)

Oh btw to clarify [TW ok more direct talk of SA so please be careful and take care of yourselves]- yes, I'm absolutely saying Q got repeatedly SA'd by Schlatt throughout their relationship. The guy was canonically generally verbally and physically abusive, AND basically the whole point of his character is that he's like, the epitome of everything wrong with society. Add to that the sexual comments which were constantly used to demean, insult, and objectify Q, as well as Quackity's intense, palpitable discomfort which noticeably grows each time the topic comes up when they meet after Schlatt's death during Las Nevdas era, it's a pretty safe bet to assume Schlatt didn't stop at "just" verbal and physical violence. Sexual violence is almost a guarantee when you consider all that context - it's hardly even "reading between the lines". And you can't tell me that in our society that views being penetrated during sex as something negative, especially for men, while viewing penetrating someone as an act of "conquering" and "winning" and all that a character who's supposed to embody as many of this world's faults as possible wouldn't shove his dick where it's not wanted, even just purely to prove he can despite lack of consent.

[proudfreakmetarusonikku]

intensely funny to see people freaking out at tommy mentioning the dsmp like I don’t even watch him much lately but he takes any opportunity to bring it up he fucking loves that server and c!tommy y'all literally haven’t watched a single one of his videos ever in your life.

[hopalongfairywren]

Why does nobody draw c!Hannah or Niki or Puffy or Tina with scars. Like these women lived through WARS. Niki was in multiple. Hannah was fucking blown up. Where are her burn scars anything besides maybe mildly ripped wings. Puffy was a pirate and has survived multiple assassination attempts. I know you guys can draw scars you draw them on your male faves alllll the time. The women don't need perfect unblemished skin guys. You can give them scars or acne or something.

[atthebell-moved]

I think what's most frustrating about misogyny in this fandom (and any fandom, but this one has particular issues I'll get into) is that people who've never read a single word of feminist theory can recognize when they're pulling sexist bullshit. Like, my dad has never in his life consumed anything beyond milquetoast feminist takes on NBC family dramas, but he's capable of taking a step back and going "hey, that sucked and i know why."

But here, no matter how much i want to give people the benefit of the doubt for being young and not having the same opportunities as me to engage with feminism, people just go beyond the level of patience and grace I'm willing to extend to them. Yes, it is obvious that you don't care about women. No, I don't care that you rb pretty pictures of them, because at the end of the day you'll turn on them in an instant for any perceived wrong that for your favorite male streamer you would do endless apologia.

Every single woman on the DSMP is treated as an extension of male characters. Every streamer is treated like she doesn't matter unless she's streaming with some guy you actually care about. I've gone through their fanart tags, extensively, and I PROMISE you that the ratio of fanart of them on their own compared to art of them with your favorite white boy is fucking sad. Not to mention how many of these women get doxxed to hell and drug through the mud any time they flirt with a man or do lore that you don't approve of because it slights Tommy or Wilbur in any way.

Do you know the shit that gets slung at female streamers? There's an attitude in certain corners of this fandom that male streamers are over sexualized. Let me tell you about what female ccs go through. There is deepfake porn of every single one of them. There are constant messages about their bodies, about how they don't deserve their fame if they don't wear revealing clothing, and about how they need to cover up more. There are stalkers and rape threats and constant judgment of their actions as inherently sexual and deserving of not just criticism but genuine hatred. Please go watch an unban requests stream and you will see the BAREST minimum of what I'm talking about. The things I have heard people call Niki and Puffy are fucking disgusting, and I can't even imagine what their mods have to see.

If you think Twitchcon SD shoving the only panel for female streamers into a tiny room is bad, I want you to look twice at this community and how it treats women and then tell me you think that's surprising. There were people in line for that panel and for Niki and Hannah's meet n greets who were only there bc they're on the DSMP and stream with the guys you people actually care about. I know because I literally talked to them. They don't know a thing about these CC's content.

Don't pretend like this community is better than how all of twitch treats women. Don't pretend like you care about feminism and then throw completely disproportionate levels of criticism and hate at any woman who fucks up. Don't pretend you care about women within their own narratives and then sideline them at every opportunity in favor of the guys you actually care about. Suck it up and say the quiet part out loud (you don't care about women) and start actually trying to care.

[hopalongfairywrens]

The misogyny in this fandom is so awful can we talk more about that actually

[sillyfairygarden]

17 and 18 for the ask game

hi wrenny wren 🫶 i’m assuming this is for the dsmp so okaaay

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art?

i am such a sucker for religious symbolism in art and writin and storytelling GAWWDD and not just christianic symbolism (which i think is most commonly found) but like. the ideas of religious guilt and sin and confessions and act and rites towards a higher god. god dsmp had that so good with the gods of the universe and the fanon interpretations/expansions on them. literally that shit was amazing. you ever see those stained-glass artworks and stuff? good lord. egg religious symbolism xd and c!mumza and c!foosh and c!philz and these gods who played in the realms of mortals i just LOVE that imagery and ideology. soooo good

18. it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on...

uhhhh diverging strictly from dsmp but like. overall. female mcyts. like today i posted about qjaiden and ended up talking w a few people and going through ao3 and just... it was really saddening to see how minimal appreciation she gets for the deeper nuanes of her character. like as someone just getting their feet wet with the qsmp (so to speak), its been so much easier to find metaposts and analysis about the male streamers than on qjaidens character and i just. i get that this is sort of the song and dance of being an mcyt fan, but i get so wrapped in my little corner of mcytblr surrounded by mutuals and artists who make a lot of content for female cubitos, and people who i attract by centralizing women in my content recently... that i forget that like. the rest of the greater fandom exists.

and its such a shame, because i think there is soooo much awesomeness and nuance and complexity in their stories too! like they are not inherently worse or lamer or less exciting. these creators arent just great streamers, they can be storytellers in their own ways and also still grow and evolve through nurturing their characters and honing in on it. but i feel like they are so easily overlooked. like if you only look for one kind of story in your fandoms you will only ever see it, you know ?sorry this turned into a soap box and i made myself a little sad. i don't think its one person or another individually building this problem, and conversations about misogyny in fandom go WAAAY farther back than silly minecraft roleplay servers but i just. i am so thankful that i can create and consume wonderful art about women in the mcyt sphere and i hope my little corner grows bigger and other people see that too

[faerygardens]

idk the fact that hermitcraft, empires, the life series, and the qsmp can all exist not only without incredibly prevalent misogyny problems but with the women on these servers being treated with the same amount of adoration by the fans as the men despite being outnumbered by men on all of them tells me that maybe the misogyny problem on the dsmp had absolutely nothing to do with how many women were on the server but with how they were treated both on and off camera

like i will always be critical of the fact that there is a severe lack of representation for both women and poc within the mcyt community but if you try to approach that problem the way the dsmp did-- just adding a shit ton of them to the server but not actually making an effort to include them in anything and ignoring their attempts to be included-- of course theres gonna be a fucking problem with the way they’re treated by the fans and of course that’s not going to help with the fight for more inclusion

[aishabellasbigblogofeverything]

that post u made is literally me every day like i do not need to be reminded of my dsmp phase??? the sins of my youth fr

frfr

[justanisabelakinnie]

💀

some people act like youre waterboarding them if you want to talk about women instead of men

[emi-writings]

Some suggestions for the “DSMP-Stop-Hating-Women” Fanfic Test:

If the fic contains SBI:

Kristin must be included as a member.

Kristin cannot have noticeably less focus than the majority of the members (e.g. if the fic mostly focuses on crimeboys, then Kristin having as much focus as Phil and Techno, but less than Wilbur and Tommy is fine. Kristin only appearing once throughout the fic, while everyone else appears at least three times is not fine).

Kristin must be physically there, must have at least as much impact on the plot as the majority of members, and cannot be killed off for the sake of the male characters being sad for a bit or to justify neglectful/unhealthy actions from the male character.

Other requirements regardless of if the fic contains SBI or not:

 You cannot kill off more female characters than male characters, and both male and female characters must have their deaths treated with equal respect.

There must be more than one female character that is at least somewhat important to the plot.

At least two female characters included should talk with each other. It doesn’t have to be alone, but they should at least speak directly to each other at least once.

The reader should be able to name at least three things related to interests, goals, or personality (any combination or just one of those categories is fine) about the female character in your fic. Knowledge that comes from canon should not be counted if it is not displayed in your fic.

[dykecubes]

I just find it interesting that a multiple women on the dsmp have come forward about facing misogyny behind the scenes and talked very frequently about being ignored or not being supported by the male content creators on the server but it wasn’t until Connor backed up their allegations of misogyny that dream started freaking out about it and dream fans decided that this misogyny didn’t actually happen

[proudfreakmetarusonikku]

like tbh all the dsmp teens r homestuck coded. c!ranboo is john c!purpled is rose c!tommy is dave c!tubbo is jade. like do u see my vision.

[hopalongfairywren]

WHAT?

[hopalongfairywren]

The way c!Awesamfam is made for c!Tommy's sake becomes abundant once you take into account every other character's lore and see how it reframes the sexist abuse c!Sam put Hannah through as lighthearted paternal frustration. Or just omits it in general. I know inniters love dunking on c!Dream apologists for defending abuse but there's another whole ass green man abuser character who funnily enough is praised or ignored. Funny that.