#dog whistle for misogynists

[nerdsandqueens]

Anyone complaining about Mythal's design just like people complained about Mystra's design is a dog whistle.

Blocked. Blocked. And Blocked.

[bethanydelleman]

I think the asker of this question really doesn't get Jane Austen. I sincerely believe that one of Austen's main points is that the way women are judged as candidates for marriage is ridiculous and unlikely to bring happiness.

How realistic Pride and Prejudice really is? I mean, it's very well written, but I have a hard time taking the love part of the story seriously when I know that in real life, there would be 0.0000000000001% chance of a man of Darcy's calibre in that era proposing to a poor, average looking and unaccomplished young lady like Lizzy.

Let's pretend that does actually describe Elizabeth

Beauty? It failed Mr. Bennet

Wealth? What did that get Mrs. Bennet? She's hardly happy. Can you imagine what kind of marriage Mr. Darcy would have with Anne de Bourgh? Is there a snowball's chance in hell that he'd be happy and fulfilled in that relationship?

Accomplishments? You mean the thing that Caroline Bingley has? That any girl can acquire as long as you throw her in a prestigious enough school? Something that is wielded by most as a mere tool to secure a good marriage but rarely loved in it's own merit? What is that worth?

The value of Elizabeth Bennet is her intellectual compatibility with Mr. Darcy. The value of Fanny Price is her deep morality and sincere affection. The value of Anne Elliot is not her bloom that faded but her cultivated mind and her compassion. The value of Elinor Dashwood is her mental strength in the face of adversity. The value of Marianne Dashwood is her ability to love whole-hardheartedly. The value of Catherine Morland is her honesty, candour, and love. The value of Emma Woodhouse is not in her wealth but her determination to rectify her mistakes and her selfless care of her father.

Lady Middleton's pianoforte sits untouched since her accomplishments secured her a baronet; Willoughby finds wealth cannot fully compensate for the lack of love; and beauty is ephemeral. Those were never good criteria for securing lasting happiness and Jane Austen knew it and said it!

[bakeonlyforyouself]

I'm banging my head against a wall. I've heard a good handful of explanation from trans men as to why they think they're men, most often being professionally diagnosed dysphoria and body dysmorphia. Cool.

I'd love, for once, if a TIM would say something other than repeating misogynistic dog whistles back to me as an excuse for equating cross dressing (fetish) to sex identity.

They'll scream "gender isn't real" from the rooftops, but their only reasoning for thinking they're women is "body hair looks bad", "I want to wear dresses", ect ect. You guys could NOT get me to take you seriously.

[genderkoolaid]

Hi. You always post a lot of info so I'm wondering if you might be able to help me. Is there a difference between radfems and TERFs? Are they both bad? If so, why are they bad? Are there any dog whistles to look out for when it comes to these groups? Please ignore this if it makes you uncomfortable. I've seen a lot of people pointing out that they're bad, but never really saying why. I want to make sure I follow intersectional feminism and not those groups.

Radical feminism is the name of a branch of feminism. It originally got its name because it advocated for extreme changes to society to address female oppression, but developed into a specific worldview which I (off the top of my head) would define by certain traits:

Oppositional sexism. Men and women (or "males" and "females") are fundamentally opposed. Oftentimes this is bioessentialist, arguing that this opposite comes from biology, but it may also be framed as a political necessity; a radfem might argue that gender and sex are fake BUT we need male vs female as political identities in order to identify our "allies" and "enemies". Regardless, males and females are physically distinct and political enemies. You can tell a man from a woman, either from their body or their behavior, the two categories cannot overlap, and no other gender/sex-labels are relevant.

Fatalistic perspectives on patriarchy. Not only are males and females opposed, but this cannot be changed. This may be bioessentialist (the opposition comes from something in our nature, which cannot change) or gender-essentialist (the opposition comes from socialization which occurs as a child due to outside pressure and/or internal gender identity, and cannot change.) Focus is not placed on an ideal future where men and women are equals and social partners. Instead, there is a sense that there is no way to truly have a society with men and women where males do not oppress females, or try to. Sometimes this is more implicit and other times you have people who explicitly believe in creating & enforcing female-only societies.

Misogyny as the source of all oppression, or at least the most important & the one people should identity themselves as before anything else. Those who call themselves intersectional generally only really care about other issues to the extent that they affect women in some way. Part of the downfall of the original radical feminists was the fact that the dominant groups were upper-class white women, who ignored racism and classism and silenced poor women & women of color, insisting that anti-racist and anti-classist action distracted from The Movement & that calling out other women's bigotry was anti-feminist.

A general suspicion of sexual desire and sex, often expressing itself as whorephobia (anti-sex work) and anti-kink attitudes, specifically under the argument that they are inherently misogynistic and abusive. Sex is associated with men and maleness, which again, are inherently the enemy. Sex WITH men, or with a person or object that could be construed as male, is especially bad.

The impetus to make your personal life As Feminist As Possible– "The personal is political." That isn't a bad slogan on its own (it's true), but with radical feminists it expresses itself as a high standard of Radfemmaxing. You should be celibate if you are attracted to men, or become a political lesbian, you shouldn't be masculine OR feminine (anti-butch & femme sentiment), you should reject makeup and shaving, you should cut off male relatives and even abort male fetuses– and you must identify with womanhood and femaleness, while rejecting any identity related to manhood and maleness. It's not just that you should examine your desires and choices and question why you feel the way you feel (again, this is a good thing). Radfems have the belief that they already know the correct answer to that Introspection, and if you come to any other conclusion than theirs (I like wearing makeup because it's fun, I want to be a man because it fits me), then it's taken as proof you are still brainwashed.

TERFS are trans-exclusive radfems. They believe that being trans is not real, or at least not healthy or an acceptable feminist stance. TERFs tend to use the language of "sex" and "males vs females." Many use the term "gender critical," meaning they see gender as fake and damaging, while sex is real and the proper platform for feminist analysis. I once saw a TERF define her stance as "it's not degrading because its feminine, its feminine because its degrading." They believe in things like autogynophilia and rapid onset gender dysphoria, and attribute transgender identity with sexual trauma, internalized homophobia and internalized misogyny.

TIRFs are trans inclusive. They believe that transgender feelings are natural and should be listened to and followed, and that feminism should take gender identity into account. However, they still have a "male vs female" worldview. They may argue that transgender men's internal gender feelings led them to internalize male socialization, while trans women internalized female socialization, meaning that all trans people's experiences with gender and misogyny align most with cis people who share their gender identity.

In both cases, anti-nonbinary exorsexism and intersexism are unavoidable. TERFs will label intersex people as "males/females with a disorder" and attribute nonbinary identity either to internalized misogyny (FTX) or to avoid being held accountable for male privilege (MTX). TIRFs similarly fail to acknowledge how someone's socialization can be affected by intersexism. MTX people are either trans women in denial or flamboyant cis men; FTX people are either trans men avoiding their privilege, or cis women avoiding their privilege*.

Not everyone who uses radical feminist arguments or shares the general perspective openly identified as radfem. There are many "cryptos" who purposefully obscure their political identity to spread radfem ideas in queer & feminist spaces. Other people adopt the general ideas of radical feminism without consciously identifying as one, because of cryptos and how pop feminism often adopts their flashier ideas. So it's important to understand these qualities as on a scale, with some versions being more subtle while others are explicit.

Radical feminism always reduces trans experiences (& experiences in general) to a simple, uncrossable binary, based either in gender or sex. Nuance and cros- or non-binary gender experiences are seen as anti-feminist and aligned with the patriarchy, if not part of a targeted plan to hurt feminist movements.

*the idea of "AFAB privilege" is. a thing in some people's analysis of transmisogyny.

[rebellum]

Do you guys consider "men should be allowed to be feminine without being told multiple times by many different people that they have to really be trans women" to be a dogwhistle?

Cause I could see how it could be used AS a transphobic statement, but I mostly see it in the whole current egg debate (don't repeatedly insist someone must be trans if they say they're cis, don't harass people or tell your friend "you're probably a woman" every single time they wear makeup, that whole debate)

Where it's being used to mean like "insisting that because a man is wearing something associated with femininity that he MUST be a trans women is misogynistic because it assumes men can't enjoy those things. Dont tell random people that they have to be trans, don't tell your friend they must be trans every time they wear makeup or a skirt or whatever, respect people's identities" kinda way

But I did see someone refer to it as a dog whistle so now I'm wondering if I am having an overly-charitable view of when people say that

[shesay]

The "male loneliness epidemic" is a glaring dog whistle that carries no real significance and is primarily used to undermine and dismiss the struggle for women's rights. The same goes for mental health discussions too. Young men, mainly teens were raised on easily accessed porn From an extremely young age, just 10 years old, even before the onset of puberty, watching vids of violent porn where the women get beaten and harmed in horrific ways. And when they are not watching porn, they're frying their brains with misogynistic podcasts and idolizing incel influencers. It's over for males and they've become so hostile and vicious, they can no longer be saved. Let them die alone and miserable.

[olderthannetfic]

Because I don't think this falls on any other site I'm in, I've decided to say this here instead, because y'all here are great (except the people I've blocked, they aren't).

As a LatAm anon, I'm very nostalgic about Dragon Ball (Z) as a media but also I'm very BEC about it as a fandom. Like every fandom, of course, this one has a shitty side. That's not a surprise. And that shitty side includes deeply misogynistic men. That's also not a surprise. But it not being a surprise doesn't mean it's not a reason to not want to do anything with the fandom as a whole. At least, years ago, I was, hmmm, let's say, amused by the DBZ memes that our Spanish-spoken corner did (like responding to gringos on Twitter with horrific quality Goku images that have Spanish text like "cállate pendejo"). But since Akira Toriyama died, I'm not as amused. Or, more like, the amusement (in the bad sense) is regarding the men being pieces of shit.

And what has Toriyama's death to do with anything? Well, you see, he died on 1 March, but was publicly announced on 8 March. And this is being used by those misogynistic men to say shit like "it's not the day of the Females, but Toriyama's," "let's celebrate the important things: Akira Toriyama legacy," "me and the boys going to homage Toriyama and not those whores." Shit like that. And it's so roll eye-ing.

Like, besides the misogyny, this is really fucked up, no matter how you want to look at it. Let the mangaka rest in fucking peace. They're using him and his sad death as an excuse to scream their hate speech, and to men/people that don't recognize themselves as misogynistic but just "sane people who believe the correct natural things," this flies like a normal thing to do. It's so fucking close to be something in the same lines as a dog whistle to signal you don't think women are people, to "homage" Toriyama's death on 8 March. Because it's pretty obvious they don't actually care about him nor about his works; if they did, they'd homage him on the correct date and on his birthday, at least. Or the anniversary of Dragon Ball. Or something like that. But those people are quiet those days, and only start being loud when we are already in March. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together for this.

This fandom has soured in me to the point of me starting to actually hate it, just because of this. Because on the Spanish speaking corners, these attitudes are the common denominator.

--

[velvetvexations]

Okay like literally why is it always the topic of the week with tumblr TRFs? First it was “transmasc headcanons are shallow and less meaningful than transfem headcanons”, then it was “theyfab is good actually because we have it worse”, then it was “trans men are culturally appropriating transfem cultural with catboys and dilfs”, then it was “the transmasc non-binary theyfab who thinks trans women have boring genders”, next it was “the dynamic between trans women and trans men is identical to the dynamic between white people and black people, therefore we are justified in our mistreatment of them”, then it was “words like perisex and binary are dog whistles” and now it’s “cultural third genders aren’t real and are trans misogynistic because they’re all just trans women”. Like where do these talking points even come from, does nobody have an original thought??

There are a few popular people who the rest tend to mindlessly parrot.

[poebrey]

I’m tired of seeing all these caveats on The Acolyte saying that the writing could’ve been better or it wasn’t as good like there’s a need to preemptively defend criticism of it when saying it deserved to get renewed. It was just as good or bad as most of the other star wars live action, none of which in terms of either quality (everything except Andor) or performance has surpassed The Mandalorian.

The Acolyte had a good first season, set the stage for a new direction, was able to build word of mouth and attract new audiences, and by the end of the season was going viral in a way that only Obi-Wan managed to do by bringing in a second legacy character (Anakin). This is now the 4th production including the sequel series that received a targeted hate campaign, by which I’m placing strong emphasis on the words targeted and campaign because both Ahsoka and TBOBF received large amounts of racist abuse.

Star Wars is a stagnant media property, coming off of a widely-panned sequel series (which managed to achieve the rare feat of alienating both the racist and misogynistic parts of the fanbase and just about everyone else in refusing to properly develop the new leads as it re-tooled itself to appease the former.) Just about every actor of color in a leading role has been subject to widespread racial abuse, it frequently undermines its own initiative to focus on female characters, and in refusing to stand by its own IP it’s destroying any long-term plan to revitalize the fanbase before it even gets off the ground, the High Republic era now having years of investment and buildup cast aside.

When all of the following media projects fail because no one has faith in them after how they handled their previous projects (looking at the upcoming Rey-centric Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy led film) its going to once again be blamed on ‘bad quality, bad production, whatever the racist dog whistle of the season is like the current “wokeism” etc.’ and not an inherent refusal of a company to stand by its own work. This is Star Wars, no one, not even the biggest fans of the prequel films were coming out of theatres thinking this was Oscar-winning high art. What made it work is George Lucas’ refusal to give in to criticism and fundamentally change his own creation, for better or worse, whether it be bad CGI and Jar Jar Binks, or making an annoying little kid named Ani the central protagonist of the first film in decades. That same attitude stood by giving Anakin a padawan named Ahsoka. It should be ushering in a new era of Star Wars, instead half the audience is convinced Lucasfilm hates its own IP.

[lovelyjasmari]

AND ANOTHER THING!

I swear this will be the last time I talk about this but I finally caught up on all the episodes this season and unsurprisingly, I have more thoughts.

I’m not gonna lie, I was lowkey nervous when Kaoruko was introduced because despite loving her design, I was really hoping she wouldn’t end up becoming Miyo’s romantic rival. I really should have known better and her existence proved yet another point I’d like to make. As much as I love Miyo, I also appreciate that, contrary to what antis wanna spout, the narrative never tries to portray Miyo’s womanhood as the “correct” kind of womanhood.

One argument I frequently saw brought up in season one is that because Kanoko and Kaya aren’t as traditionally feminine in their appearance, the narrative was trying to say that women like them are bad because they were more outspoken and aggressive. That’s ridiculous because Hazuki is right there and she’s far more modern in her appearance but still manages not to be a total bitch. But in this season, when we meet Kaoruko, we once again have an example of a woman who doesn’t take the traditional route in life but is still worthy of our respect. In fact, I think there are a few times in the narrative that Miyo expresses admiration for Kaoruko and Hazuki because they are so different from her, but also kind and clearly care for her.

And probably more to the point, for all the antis like to bitch about Miyo’s lack of backbone or how the story “glorifies” her Yamato Nadeshiko appearance and personality, in Kaoruko’s storyline, the narrative actually goes out of its way to show that the kind of misogynistic thinking that antis accuse the story of is wrong. The other officers look down on her because of her gender but even Miyo is astute enough to know they’re full of shit and even speaks up for her. Really, their friendship has been my favorite thing about this season so far.

Now I’m not saying that patriarchy doesn’t indeed pedestalize women like Miyo but I think it’s a real disservice to her agency just to disregard everything else about her because of that. Seriously I just wish people would stop seeing her gentle resilience as weakness just because she isn’t as outspoken or aggressive as they think strong women “should” be. When in fact, Miyo is probably one of the strongest female heroines I’ve encountered in a shoujo anime in a long time. I admit one of the reasons I love her is because she reminds me of me but that’s also why I feel so defensive of her and this anime. The truth of the matter is most of the criticisms of Miyo are just a dog whistle to hate on the fact she isn’t a girlboss. I’ve seen it with Namine, I’ve seen it with Strelitzia, Toru Honda, the early Disney princesses and I’m sick of this way of thinking. Western feminism will forever be cooked until we learn to love and appreciate all kinds of women and not just the ones we feel are “worthy” of our appreciation.

[albertserra]

What I haven’t really seen people talking about is how weirdly NYC neoconservative/red scare/dimes square it is. All the typical dog whistles are there… the tatu song, ivy wolk, dropping faggot and retard every other sentence. Even the meta narrative that seems to be condemning her for her “grift” and attempting to move upwards. It all gave me such a strange feeling.

I’ll be honest I have no idea who Ivy wolk is… also wait is all the things she said a dog whistle (genuine question I like the song I have no idea abt any of the culture surrounding it or whatever). The faggot usage was so stupid lmfao like I can’t believe that script was real . Idk what dimes square is either 😭 at lot of this message is flying over my head. But yeah imo the film read as pretty straightforwardly misogynistic to me. Anora being restrained in that prolonged scene playing as slapstick when she was just being sooooo crazyyyyyyy for uhhh. Resisting being held against her will by 2 strangers.

[takemyhand-justice]

I like Ryan (a lot) and don’t have that much of an issue with his interview honestly but people on twitter acting like calling ‘women’ females isn’t a misogynistic dog whistle just because your fave says it …

c’mon now

[redditreceipts]

i’ve been looking into a lot of “terf” ideas lately, and it’s been so eye-opening. i was, until recently, what you might call an ally to tras. when it comes to challenging terf ideas, i notice that tras rarely ever even do that. they would just call for violence against these women, which i think was the first thing that made me “peak”. the left has become so genuinely misogynistic (it was always an issue but it seems even more acceptable now) under the guise of trans rights activism. even tras seem to embrace mra ideology on here. i’m constantly seeing posts from them (especially trans men) criticizing misandry like it’s on the same level as misogyny. literally anything is a “terf dog whistle now ( ex. “female rage” using the word “sexism” or even flippantly saying “i hate men”) i’ve also seen so many perverted interpretations of gender from trans people. so many trans women seem to be weeaboos who became obsessed with anime girls, or silence women when we talk about the hardships of growing up female because we make being a woman sound bad. it’s all so disgusting to me and i’m heartbroken because i fear i’m no longer an empathetic person. i can’t find it in me to support these people. i feel like you still have some empathy towards the idea of being trans, and i wanted to know how you were able to do this? so sorry for ranting in your inbox but you seemed very approachable from other responses

hey! first of all, thank you and it's cool that you are here :) I have also been a trans ally for the longest time, but it's become harder and harder to defend them, even though God knows I tried.

I just want to tell you that you disagreeing on a political discussion is not a sign that you lack empathy. It also doesn't mean that you hate the group of people that you disagree with.

I actually do think that the gender critical position is the more empathetic one. For me, being gender critical includes being empathetic to detransitioners, being empathetic to women who feel unsafe, being empathetic to feminine men to which it is suggested that they are actually trans women and to masc women who experience the same. It's being empathetic to people with gender dysphoria who decide to transition but still recognise their own biological sex and to trans people who disagree with the current discourse as well.

And in the end, being empathetic means seeing someone else's struggle and respecting it, but it doesn't mean that you necessarily agree with them on how to resolve it.

so yeah, I wouldn't be worried about not being empathetic enough if I were you, but I do get where you are coming from! Here's a cute cat for you :)

[radfemsiren]

French anon is retarded. 99% of Muslim immigrants come from former French colonies so any legislation against Islam is basically a dogwhistle. Radfems have 0 political education

Egypt was colonized by the French but that didn’t cause FGM to be perpetrated for so long in my family’s home country. Refusing to legislate against oppressive behaviors when they are perpetuated by a group you have bias to makes you a coward.

Stop infantilizing arab/african men bruh… imperialism is evil, and harms women and children the most… but men don’t require it to oppress women. Cultural relativism is how FGM became so popular in the first place.

FGM is an African problem. Muslims and Christians alike practice it, and cite culture as their reason for continuing this barbaric tradition. These countries after gaining independence pushed for embracing any form of African tradition, as pushback against the influence colonial powers. This hyper nationalism had dire consequences.

Look at the first president of Kenya: Jomo Kenyatta. He was an anti-colonial activist and conservative politician. Cultural preservation was extremely important to him and he defended this barbaric practice many times, even though his political frameworks was expressedly anti colonial: “The operation is (still) regarded as the very essence of an institution which has enormous educational, social, moral and religious implications, quite apart from the operation itself. Presently, it is impossible for a member of the tribe to imagine an initiation without clitoridectomy (FGM). Therefore, the abolition of the surgical element in this custom means to the Gikuyu the abolition of the whole institution” source

This is just one example of how understanding systems of patriarchy can be perpetuated by non white communities, and legislating against certain practices that are predominant in minority groups is not a “dog whistle.” You seeing any form of progress for women as a dog whistle is actually dog whistling you as a misogynist, how about that 👀

[askfucktoyfelix]

Hey I'm a cis gay man and I was only vaguely aware of trans people as a kid and then in 2013 I was introduced to online trans politics and it involved a lot of "die cis scum, I hate cis people, death to cis people" so I walked away from all that thinking "OK, trans people believe they are superior and will all look down on me no matter what." And I've occasionally brought this up with trans people and they're usually taken aback or think I'm joking that they all think they're better than everyone else. I also get the sense that most feminists are septical of cis men but see trans men as *safe* and kind, which makes me a little jealous b/c I'm tall and broad-shouldered so a lot of women see me as a little dangerous even tho I'm a sweetheart. I'm also becoming a gym guy and there's all this discourse where feminists (incl. transfeminists like ContraPoints) think cis men working out is a fascist dogwhistle but trans men who work out are just trying to live authentically. So I'm sorry about laying all this bare, but IDK how to deal with feeling like trans men are always against me no matter what and that there's a segment of the left that thinks me and my habits are toxic but don't feel the same way about trans men in a similar situation.

Seems like youre over thinking it and oversimplifying at the same time...instead of viewing trans people as regular people like anyone else.

I've seen all of contras videos and cant recall where she says that going to the gym is a fascist dog whistle. I have experienced some of my gay friends becoming weirdly anti-woman after joining a gym. I assume they made some misogynist friends..

The gym isn't what youll be judged on though, it will be if you treat people with respect, and call out bullshit stereotypes when you hear them.

Honestly the algorithm online takes the worst takes and amplifies them because outrage generates site traffic. So if you've seen a lot of bad takes from the left, thats not at all representative of what people on the left actually believe.

I'd find trans people like drdemonprince , and fill your feed with them if you wanna know what most trans people are actually thinking. (hint: we wanna chill and have fun without being treated weird for being trans ! :3 )