#do we have unreliable narrators?

[dungeons-and-dictions]

We LOVE a mysterious lady while waiting for Hazbin Hotel’s marvelous first season to wrap up. Let’s talk about Lilith and Eve!

There’s so many ways this could go. Applause to Vivienne and Co. for making this fun with what I am sure are ample red herrings. I hope those involved in the show are having great chuckles as we feverishly wonder what is really going on.

First, some groundwork so that we’re on the same page. I’m nearly certain Sera is not the highest up in Heaven, whether in order or entity. This may be the common “God sleeps, knows all, and refuses to be involved”, which is always a fun, good move for narratives. Orrrrr, it might be some of my theories.

And on the subject of narratives, we should acknowledge that Charlie is telling her parents’ perspective of the beginning of Earth. It may not be the whole story, people may be figurative or portrayed inaccurately, and things may have been omitted.

Now then, my 6 theories!

Theory 1 - Eve is just a regular woman, and no one cares about her after death. High probability that Adam had a lot to do with that.

Theory 2/3 - Eve is God / Eve is the true evil

Let me tell you some ancient religion things. Nothing in this world is isolated. In ancient Judaism, there are references to Asherah, a Canaanite mother goddess and wife to the big god El, particularly as an object of devotion in the form of a tree. Makes sense that the Judeo-Christian God would have a wife if Lucifer does.

Anywho, whether or not this is the inspiration, I wonder if the imagery used in the first scene of the show is meant to hint at the origins, or roots, of evil in the world being an actual enemy. Whatever twist would happen with Eve (or Lilith!) finally appearing, I would expect it to be BIG like this, and the symbolism adds up.

Theory 4 - Eve is Lilith

During the opening sequence, Eve about to eat the apple takes on very similar features to Lilith’s silhouette just seconds later.

This theory goes with the understanding that Eve never existed, or also ran away from Adam but became inconsequential. We never see Eve or Adam as humans again in this sequence, so for all we know this works. Eve could definitely just be symbolic.

Theory 5 - Eve and Lilith are Allies

They are working together on… something. Whatever Lilith and Alastor are connected with, for sure. Perhaps these ladies are triple agents and are infiltrating their respective realms quietly while plotting some sort of takeover or revamp. Perhaps there is a bigger evil / God himself that they are trying to steal power from?

Theory 6 - Lilith became Eve 7 Years Ago

Something happened where Eve was hurt, usurped, or otherwise incapacitated, and Lilith stepped in to prevent a power vacuum. Obviously this can work well off of Theory 5, but it works as an enemy simply taking advantage, too.

BONUS Theory 7 - Lilith and Lucifer are Allies

Once again, they’re working together on something nefarious. Eve may be the baddie (or goodie) or not even matter, whilst our royal Hell couple has supposedly split up to give the idea they aren’t in communication, and that Lucifer is a non-threat.

I am so glad that we have 2 seasons from the start! There’s so many other thoughts and so much in this show, that at least 2 seasons is definitely needed. To the season finale!

[dykedvonte]

I hate the stretch lines in the front of Curly's uniform because that means the devs rushed to make a model in like a month or so and thought "They gotta at least know he has huge knockers, gotta know he's got back pain." Cause like what is the thematic importance of his tits having overhang?

What responsibility is that representing? Breast reduction? It shows an inherent greed in his character due to the excess and heshouldletmeholdone and that he clearly is blinded cause if he tries to look down his damn ladder all he's seeing is his own cleavage.

[tinartss]

on moving out

[athophobic]

there’s something i feel i can remember..! i don’t want to forget what’s going on. i don’t want to be trapped like this. and i tried again, and stanley pushed a button. is it over? i’m going back. this is more important than you can ever know. this isn’t a challenge, it’s a tragedy. what else is there? what came before this?i can’t lose myself in the stretch of emptiness between you and me. the end will be here soon. very soon. i can wait. i wish you to feel afraid as i do. i’ll give it all up, i’ll burn my story to the ground! it was the only thing in the world that was mine and you’ve run it into the ground. the end is never the end. i can’t quite recall, but i believe my story took place in an office building… is that correct? do you remember? it’s all determined? why don’t i get to decide? why don’t i get a say in all this? the end is never the end. the story needs this. it’s all out of my control now. just your decision as to exactly when you’re going to make me suffer, to leave me all alone. the end is never the end. i know you too well. i need this. and stanley was happy. i will be laughing at every second of your inevitable life from the moment we fade in, to the moment i say “happily ever after”. and stanley was happy. i wanted us to be happy here. and stanley was happy. the story needs you. it cannot exist without you. and stanley was happy. take as much time as you need. and stanley was happy. this is a very sad story about the death of a man named stanley. and stanley was happy. i did enjoy telling his story. so very much. this is the story of a man named stanley. i hope you like it. i hope you understand it. i hope you set stanley free.

[qiu-yan]

in MDZS the novel, the innkeeper in Yunping mentions that people are too scared to go petition Yunmeng Jiang for help because someone once walked in on Sect Leader Jiang whipping a guy in the main hall, supposedly because the guy was a demonic cultivator.

[purgaytorysupremacy]

friend who is watching Supernatural because I won't shut up about it: I dunno, the episode "It's a Terrible Life" feels kind of empty and doesn't really make a lot of sense. Like, the message is just "ghost hunting is mad fun, bro"

me, buzzing with murder board energy: no, no, but you see... *writes hundreds of words about how this is one of THEE Dean Studies episodes, especially when paired with the season two djinn episode and endverse, and builds important parts of the angel's lore and plans, and is a meta example of the show's creators misunderstanding their own characters and stories*

[myfairkatiecat]

“The narrative does this” “the narrative does that” “the narrative always portrays this like that but that like this” they said about a third person limited story in which there is a singular narrator. wonder if maybe they’re unreliable or something

[coniangray]

Whos watching life in Hawkins??

This hit me earlier when I realized all four stories of st4 had someone/ something being a know-it-all god or a heterodiagetic narrator watching and knowing everything all at once.

But not everywhere (pun intended)

All four storylines have both types of narrators:

A homodiegetic one, this being a character involved in the story and showing their prescription of things

A heterodiagetic one, aka the know-it-all god, recording and watching all the other characters.

Homodiegetic:

For the Hawkins plot it was max. For California it was Will and Mike. For the lab it was eleven, and for the prison it was Hopper (and I think Joyce on her way there, since the prison plot is somehow separate from Joyce and Yuri's plot).

I can tell, because we SEE all of those characters feelings displayed on screen in one way or another. Max was curious during the curse, therefore bringing the whole team together, Wills lingering in California was also shown through him only, Hopper's desparation and fear for joyce not making it safe ect.

The only one I'm on the fence about is Mike, since the last time we got a scene from his prospective was in s2 or at the rain fight in s3 I think. Aka, Mike's pov was not shown enough in s4, but it was there.

Heterodiagetic narrator:

This might sound tricky at first but it's not. Even though this narrator is not supposed to be a character at all: instead, they're just a messenger who convey the story from the writer to the reader (as all narrators do). They're a ghost, an entity, aka the camera of the characters.

But in this case, the narrator is in the show. Each plot has its own one, and that's what considered a god of their own nature.

I realized this from the security cameras and the memory storage of Brenner in Nina scenes. He was keeping and choosing which ones to show to El, aka choosing her path instead of her, which becomes clear in the show later on.

In Alaska, there was also security footage to which jopper had also access to later on.

As for California, they were also recorded/watched at some point. When? Right before the shooting.

The jokes about house arrest in this scene made me think the guards that were supposed to keep them same weren't just sitting, they were most likely recording the activity in the house due to protocol (at least i wanna believe it, considering Mike's house was anf might still be bugged since the end of s1 and the flashbacks in s2).

Also, in the van, they were most likely watched by El after she gained her powers.

And if all of these plots were watched by someone, then who was watching Hawkins?

Vecna.

I realized it from this video; vecna was legit searching for a source, another mind to curse in order to complete his plan.

The camera panning made me think he had access to anyone he wanted to. He could've chosen literally anyone in replacement of mike, but he went for Patrick instead.

Why? Because he knew he was in the same group with Lucas and Jason. As we saw, attacking Patrick triggered not just these two, but in total five people and the entire Hawkins team.

And became the wirters chose to plot wise.

My point is, the dynamics changed after his death, even in the slightest, bringing Lucas closer to max.

Now, because these gods are characters too, their own thoughts may interviene with what we see/ are shown, therefore leading everything back to homodiegetic or 1st person pov.

The main occupants here are Henry and of course, Brenner. Its like a domino effect, once brenner was watching one and now one is watching hawkins.

Their motives also beg to differ; Brenner was focusing more and only on logic, hence one disobeyed that rule and only relied on emotions, especially anger, to get his powers to their fullest potential, and thats what he also taught eleven.

But the main know it all god; The Mindflayer.

It literally watches everyone. Dustin said it himself:

A five star general that can open gates and watch. Tell us just His side of the story, messing with others memories, especially Wils, and everything related to him and el.

Aka, he can just change every detail he wants simply because he was watching.

Because his lenses were stronger than the other characters, and becuase he had and still has a devoted spy. A spy that can absorb information from inside.

And that spy is Will. even in season 4, even in the byler scenes, EVERYWHERE.

That kiiinda sounds like a hyperboly, but because the connection was there, it doesnt mean it was strong. The closer he got to hawkins, the stroger it got, thats why he felt him so intenesely at the cabin.

And here comes the unreliable narrator.

Most scenes are not shown excactly how things happen. Theyre not objective, theyre subjective, given how at least one persons pov is always involved.

This is also why there are a lot of variations of just one memory, why the void version of their timeline is slightly differrent, and why even though will saw mileven happy during the rinkomania skating scenes, an outsiders pov showed how they actually felt, dissapointed by everything.

One other thing id like to add, will MIGHT be playing the god role here too, taking in mind his ongoing connection with vecna and how this could eventually be displayed in vecnas mind if he wanted to. Hence the whole spy thing.

There was a post i read about El trading places with max and exchaging herself with a variant from another timeline, and that adds another layer to the unreliable narrator imo, thinking how the two days later el has different memories and knowledge than the el we knew from before and is now possibly dead.

The thing is, this unreliable narrator thing has SO many layers, and therfore shapes somewhat smalll plot holkes within scenes, especially in s1,2 and 4.

And it got even messier im 3 given hoe focusing solely on the mainstream 80's summer slasher movie vibe, some characters arcs were lost or outshined by others that had the chance to change their arcs for the better.

Yes, im talking about will who was sidelined a lot and then this was decided to be used as a weapon for the connection between him and the ud.

All the arcs are intertwined, but i CANT solve this untill we get s5. Its honestly frustrating like GIMME THE SOLUTION BRUHHHH

[feedingicetothedog]

however! i am interested in the fact that it's a music doc now being made by daniel bc the book (as in the book lestat writes in the universe of tvc) was done completely by lestat on his own and he had the final say in how everything was communicated and presented bc he did it all himself. but now that it's a music doc w a newly vampiric daniel (i'm assuming) asking the questions, it's really gonna call into question a lot of the things that lestat says and just expects the audience to accept as true, esp bc lestat now doesn't have control over the final presentation of this product. the other things that's interesting to me is how lestat is looking into the lens to talk so it feels more confessional despite being more performative. like he's seeing daniel but he's talking to us and it reminds me of how in the trial he's supposed to be talking to santiago but speaks almost exclusively to the audience to garner sympathy. i don't know! i feel like there's a lot of interesting conversations to be had about how the change in presentation regarding his story plays w the larger themes the show's already been getting into

[stagefoureddiediaz]

Still over here spiralling about that tiny bit of script. Why if it’s not Chris. What if it’s Bobby that Buck hs injured???

Because that tiny bit of letter after basketball court could be a B - for Bobby and not an E for Eddie!!! And Bobby getting injured would totally make Buck spiral!!!

[7-sided-dice]

Coste Family lore my beloved (always hinted but never explicitly said😔)

(At this point ill just make canon in my head cus im so curious like Robert Coste tell to me what happened that night in 19__)

[coquelicoq]

you reread raksura after reading murderbot and you realize that the kethel in the last book is murderbot from an outside POV. like they don't have the same personality obviously, but if the murderbot books were told from the perspective of, say, eletra from the corporation rim, she'd be talking about secunits the way that all the protagonists of the raksura books talk about the fell. which i feel really conflicted about. you write a five-book series (plus two books of short stories) with a biologically evil race and in the later books start deconstructing it and being like "hey maybe our narrators aren't exactly reliable on this point" but by then it's kind of too late imo. idk. she's doing something interesting here but i don't know if it works.

[secret-bug-pain-blog]

@febuwhump Day 11 - ALT PROMPT - Last Man Standing

Hello. Another alt prompt. A lot of them didn't really hit the spot, whump-wise, so we're sort of budgeting our replacements here - don't worry about the delay on the last two days, we were travelling and watching small children and not particularly available. This one's Fun Leif Activities!

Leif can't remember how long he's been here.

He stands over his teammates, tense and ready. There are monsters in these woods, beasts who will rip them asunder- beasts that have already done all too much after them. His wings are flared in a display of threat, his muzzle frozen over with icy fangs, his fur a bristling array of needles.

He can't remember what it was he was fighting. He can't remember why. It doesn't matter. His bones and his guts twist to suit his need. He bares his teeth at those he only knows as enemy, and he flares his wings, and he bites and scratches and shreds at those who get too close.

If they get to his teammates, then they're dead. If he loses, then they're dead. There is no room for error. There is no room for rest. There is no room for mercy.

(There's something wrong with his hands. There's something wrong with his eyes. There's something wrong with his antenna.)

Leif turns on his heel, baring fangs at yet another enemy. The warning he speaks is in a language he cannot comprehend. He has a program for it, somewhere, but he cannot run it now- too much space, too much processing. He has a duty, he must perform it well, he must perform it without error or falter or-

(He maintains the ice over their bodies. Preservation. Cryogenics. The brain doesn't begin to rot until the heart's been stopped for four to six minutes.)

Daggers of ice stop most enemies in their tracks. Yowled curses and slashing blows make up for the rest. His shell grates up against itself as he lunges, twisted at angles it was never meant to go. The discomfort doesn't matter.

He has to protect them. Or they will die.

(Brain activity fully ceases after ten minutes. The person is considered brain dead. To restart a heart, there must be some electrical activity remaining.)

He has to protect them. Or they will die.

(A bee's muscles will lock up in environments under 55° farenheight, preventing it from flying. When below freezing temperatures, a bee's body will slowly cease to function. Eventually, it will shut down entirely as its bodily fluids freeze.)

He has to protect them. Or they will die.

(A northern scarab beetle can persist in temperatures below zero for up to six hours at a time due to the minor warm-blooded adaptations present in the north and the high degree of insulation offered by their unique shell structure. Despite this, the species still relies on hibernation to survive the winter, much like its unawakened kin. Deprived of a burrow or shelter, they will still eventually die of exposure.)

He has to protect them. Or they. Will. Die.

ZM-28 bares its teeth at an enemy, barking out a warning in a language that it doesn't speak. The enemy does not heed it. Their chitin crunches beneath its ice, its claws, its teeth. They flee with nothing more inflicted than a handful of daggers, shoved into its shell. An acceptable margin of injury. A fix to be completed later. No significant detriment. The half-eaten ganglia severed are nonvital enough that they may not even need to be recombined.

Old programs whir in the back of its head. This place is wrong. It is not where it was meant to defend. Frozen moss crunches beneath its feet, rather than frosted tile. The subroutines imbedded in it tell it that it is at the wrong place. The core of its programming protests that it doesn't matter.

It is not a lab guardian. Something in it rejects the idea of being in a lab at all. It has a quarry, and that quarry must be defended. Its paws twist awkwardly under it as it moves to check on its quarries, touching up the ice that contains them.

It was not meant to die. It was not meant to be killable. It was built with immortality in mind, to fuel the continued survival of its creators. Its subroutines are carried to serve those creators once they succeed.

Its creators are gone, and its colony is dead and dying, and all that matters is to protect.

It flings an icicle at an enemy.

All that matters is to protect.

[ninja-knox-ur-sox-off]

I love Monkie kid and the way they tell stories but oh my GODS this unreliable narrator stuff starting to stress me out

(Note: i've only seen up to ses 4 ep 8 no spoilers in the tags please)

[amorremanet]

seeing a post that has interesting canon analysis and wanting to reblog it until you get to the last paragraph and just

[dangans-ur-ronpas]

writing this damn trial like. how many times in one arc can i write a shocking development being revealed and surprising everyone. at this point is anyone really surprised anymore. do they still have that energy