#devout Christian characters.

[apotelesmaa]

I wish I could get a degree in lit/ethics but that would possibly be the only thing more useless than a viscom degree but goddamn do I love literary (or any media) analysis truly nothing is more fun than picking apart a story to find your own interpretation of the authors intentions and defending it. Lovveee to make a philosophical argument based on the actions of characters.

[journey-to-the-attic]

au where this was how ik and diavolo met for the first time when she was like seven

[raayllum]

one thing i think about the ghosting (that i allude to sometimes in my fic and given garlaath's existence as a concept) is not only the cultural trauma that rayla carries, but also the possible religious trauma. if you're ghosted, it would stand to follow that moonshadow elves don't believe you get to reunite with your village / loved ones in an afterlife. it's a complete shunning where they metaphorically (and somewhat literally) kill you if you refuse to die of your own accord in the line of duty. if you're ghosted, do you go to hell? does rayla already think she's damned on that level, and adds another level to thinking she'll never see runaan and ethari again? just something to think about

[shoechoe]

It's interesting to wonder what Diavolo's relationship with religion is since he was raised by a priest and with his name and all. (Personally I like to think he became an edgy atheist because that's the funniest thing to think about)

[thecooleraveragejamm]

why is a jayfeather a devout starclanner now

what did they do to my boy

[sacrificialroses]

I love appropriating christianity/catholicism as a fun aesthetic it’s so messed up but that gothic like gold and crosses and angels aesthetic SLAAAAPSSSS 😂 but fuck everything else about it lol

[breitzbachbea]

Rotating JJerusalem AU Francetto at the highest speed in my head, because Francesco values Dolcetto for seeing through all the class and order bullshit and values him as someone who is intellectually of his rank and who he will defend and behind closed doors treat as an equal, but it IS still medieval times and Francesco values his head upon his shoulders, so he also never openly challenges the social order nor would Dolcetto ever dream to suggest something like that. And Francesco expresses his affection also partly by reassuring Dolcetto of his high and deserved status.

Like, people outside the dominant social system have always existed and putting them back into the world via historical fiction, acknowledging that we haven't heard of them because they survived by being lowkey, is fun! It is not necessarily an ahistorical modern point of view if done right. But I just think that also trying to incorporate a worldview that is as similiar to ours as it is different can be a lot of fun in fiction.

[prokopetz]

It's that time of year when Tumblr celebrates Easter by posting pictures of crucified anime characters, and inevitably somebody in the notes will pop up to helpfully explain that crucifixion imagery has no cultural significance in Japanese media because Japan is only about 1% Christian, which bugs me because it's completely wrong.

It's true that in the majority of cases, crucifixion in Japanese cartoons isn't meant to be conveying any specific theological message, but something Western audiences are likely to miss is that a large portion of those random crucifixion scenes are referencing Ultraman.

Ultraman's creator was a devout Roman Catholic who explicitly intended the titular hero to read as a Christ figure, and consequently, various Ultramen have been crucified on multiple unconnected occasions throughout the franchise's history. Crucifixion scenes in Japanese cartoons are often directly name-checking particular crucifixion incidents from Ultraman, right down to emulating the compositions and camera angles of specific shots. It's like an especially morbid version of the Akira slide.

The upshot is that, while it's true that the inclusion of gratuitous crucifixion scenes in Japanese cartoons typically has no (intentional) theological message, stating that they have no cultural significance is incorrect. A large chunk of the Japanese viewing audience are going to see them and immediately go "hey, that's an Ultraman reference".

Anyway, as an image tax, have a shot of four crucified Ultramen miraculously resurrecting a fifth Ultraman by shooting laser beams out of their hearts:

[historicallyaccuratecheese]

NPMD has the main cast of all time.

Peter “Has been waiting five fucking years for his hot chocolate” Spankoffski.

Stephanie “Puts her hand directly underneath a hammer to protect her phone” Lauter.

Richie “Accidentally filmed incriminating evidence that suggests he and his friends brutally murdered a guy” Lipschitz.

Ruth “Pours her entire heart and soul into a musical number that reflects the motivations and struggles of both herself and the character she’s pretending to be, and literally no one sees it except for the guy who kills her two minutes later” Fleming.

Grace “Has an extremely dirty sexual fantasy despite being the world’s most devout and chaste Christian, Stages an elaborate prank in the old base of a cult, dismembers a body and covers it up without remorse, holds a cop and detective at gunpoint, summons dark gods, fucks a ghost to save the world and then ends said world herself” Chastity.

And finally, Max “Considers a prank made to utterly ruin his life and social reputation the nicest thing ever done for him, but then proceeds to murder the people who pranked him because they made him piss his pants” Jagerman.

Incredible.

[luckthebard]

I think a huge problem I’m seeing in some attempts at meta with C3 is that there is a subset of viewers who do not understand the place, value, and meaning of real world religion. It breeds takes like “well throw the gods out! Who needs them! They caused characters and the world pain! Free Vax from the Raven Queen!”

I throw that last one in there because it is the most ridiculous yet frequent and is really the crux of the issue. Vax’s story is very much about faith and the importance of faith and devotion. If you place no value on that you’ll end up grossly misunderstanding the character and the nature of his tragedy.

I’m going to out myself as an atheist, but I think the issue with a lot of these takes are that they come from internet atheists who are either resentful of and hostile toward religion because of personal experiences or do not know any devout people in their lives who they respect and can empathize with. And while I am not trying to downplay the very real phenomenon of religious trauma, when healing from it it is crucial to realize that all spiritual traditions are not synonymous with the one that harmed you. I would really implore more people to explore why many good people find spiritual traditions and religion to be a source of solace, community, and meaning before writing off the idea wholesale as something only functioning as a means of power and control that people can be educated out of believing. I encourage you to branch out and here are some examples of things I’ve done to challenge my own judgement over the last ten years: read the writings of gay Catholics exploring the queerness of Jesus. Read some beautiful poetry written by a trans man who specializes in Anglican theology. Explore religious observances different from the ones you experienced and attend a Seder. Go if a coworker invites you to a celebration of Ganesh. Learn the significance of solstice celebrations because your coworker is officiating one for a Wiccan event. Break fast at sundown during Ramadan with in solidarity with your roommate.

Deciding that all fictional religion must be an allegory for a specific kind of toxic nationalistic prosperity gospel Christian cult found in America will only limit how you engage with both fiction and the real world. It took me a long time to get to this place about it and I hope I’ve put the spark of curiosity and not judgment into at least one person reading this.

[krystal-kade]

Emily

If Vivziepop wanted to write a REAL critique of Christianity (instead of a show misrepresenting and shitting on it) she would have made Emily the main character

A demon suffering at the hands of Christianity? It's fine, but boring

A seraphim who is a devout Christian suffering at the hands of Christianity because of the hypocritical nature of some extreme Christians? SO interesting.

I thought of this listening to "You Didn't Know" from Episode 6.

"Was talk of virtue just pretension? Was I too naive to expect you to heed the morals you're purveying?" and "If Angels can do whatever and remain in the sky. The rules are shades if gray when you don't do as you say" really made me realize how great if a premise this would be.

Emily is a fucking Seraphim. She's not just extremely Christian: She's an angel. She has a reason to be naive, she grew up in paradise. She genuinely believes everyone's good because that's all she's ever known. She's never experiences hardship, and neither has anyone around her. You know she'd be furious to find out about the exterminations: "Why are "innocent" people having to suffer." She'd want to help others live the wonderful life she's lived. She might help them as an angel, but I think it'd be even more interesting for her to become a fallen angel. Imagine. She lives her whole life a perfect Christian. A perfect angel. A by-the-book girl. A rule following, Bible following good person. She tries to help people from being slaughtered and gets sent to Hell. It doesn't matter how much of a Christian she was, because she went against those in charge of Heaven (similarly to how you can be a Christian, but are ostracized if you go against the Church). She would either get Heaven to change, and be invited back into Heaven, or she would work to create a better Hell as some sort of ruler. She has infinitely more motives than Charlie, and her naivety has more reason. She would know better how to help people become better people. Emily's journey from being a well respected and influential seraphim to a disowned and ostracized fallen angel would be so interesting to see, much more interesting than the mess we got with Charlie

[mintartem]

I’m inspired by a specific plot for this. Character A is an unholy demon/creature while Character B is religious (devout christian/catholic whatever you want).

Character A and B met in the middle of the night on Character B’s balcony and started chatting, got along, then went their separate ways. Their meetings continued on and on with B wondering why they never see A during the day. Missing people reports have been increasing in the news. As time went on, Character B has fallen in love with Character A and A felt the same. One night Character B insists on having A inside their room but A is like “I can’t as long as that,” the only Holy thing in the room, “is there.” B hides it (with so much reluctance) allowing A to enter. The next morning, Character B’s family member is devastated to know that B is now missing. Another increase to the missing persons file.

Whether or not the same plot applies here, that’s up to you. Another possibility is that Luci has nothing to do with the reports and is hunting the rogue creature doing the killing and Adam willingly joined him to be his queen in Hell.

[deathsdivinity]

anyone else ever think about the fact that grace straight up says "imagine you're a good christian. sometimes you have to listen to people and believe what they say even if it sounds crazy, against everything you know, in spite of all common sense"

like. the implications. the implications.

directly implying that she herself listens to other christians and believes what they say even though to her it sounds crazy, against everything she knows, and against all common sense. that's not a "my faith has been tested these past few weeks because of The Horrors" statement, that's a "my faith has been tested all my life but i keep listening and believing because that's what i have to do to be good" statement.

grace lies to herself. grace believes what she has to believe. we see that in the musical itself, especially with her initially considering max's death to be an act of god because the alternative is that it was her fault and she Cannot Handle That. she blames anything and everything, anyone and everyone, EXCEPT for herself for the things that go wrong, except for in the single scene where she admits that she knows it's her fault. she DOES blame herself, underneath it all. she genuinely believes that she's the one who ruined their lives and who made this whole mess. not an accident, not an act of god- it's her fault, directly.

i don't think it's a stretch to believe that grace has BEEN lying to herself about her own beliefs and faith, to the point of forcing herself to believe in god and to be a "good christian" because its whats expected of her and arguably quite possibly the only thing she's allowed to be due to the seemingly unwavering faith of her parents.

its just so unreal to me that one sentence so casually and so easily implies that grace is nowhere NEAR as devout as she pretends to be, and even more unreal what exploring that belief implies about her character throughout the rest of the musical.

[acesw]

The Grecos, Schneider, and her Religious Trauma

One of the characters I really find interesting is Schneider. There are strong signs that she has religious trauma, which ties really well with the neglect she's experienced growing up and the way this trauma reflects her behaviors and words.

The Grecos are known to be really religious, and they're quite devout to Christianity as a means of life. It does not mean that they wouldn't do things to ensure that they're able to at least eat. Living in Chicago of all places is already one struggle enough, making sure they get by despite having bad relationships with gangs adds so much.

Prior to moving, they were more devoted to God as coming from a community in Sicily. They moved because of how bad the poverty situation had been (the major Italian emigration in the 1900-1910s), hoping to seek a better life in America. Of all places though, they moved to Chicago, where there were crimes and gangs all about. This resulted to the Grecos having to pull strings to keep their head up the water, and they still practice Christianity as a means to maintain morale.

We then have Schneider. The youngest and most neglected child of the Grecos. She was barely fed and paid attention to among her 11 older sisters. The Narrator also notes that she was even neglected from the start, as she turned a year old before her father realized she wasn't baptized.

Now, there are two main instances that showcase Schneider's religious trauma peeking through are the traces "From One Castle to Another" and "Long Night Trip". Both of which are very much talking about Schneider's past. There are parts of the dialogue that stick out to me.

-From One Castle to Another

"It's impossible to keep every child well-fed. Schneider could not even get a piece of bread in the Eucharist. But a good daughter would not let anyone worry about her. She sat on the bench outside the church and hummed. She found a way out for herself."

"The Grecos are among them. They're covered by the dark cloud of long-handed umbrellas. [...] But you can't find Schneider. [...] It rains heavier. The priest opens his arms to embrace the sky, 'The Lord be with you.' " " 'And also with you.' Schneider responds in a voice that could hardly be heard. She puts her hand on her heart. This is the first time she responds to the Lord. And it will be the last."

-Long Night Trip

The Narrator talks about Schneider's slow descent into losing her faith in these conversations. She used to pray and hope that God would fix things and give an answer for her and her family's suffering. And all that happened was that it got worse.

It only ever makes Schneider question and doubt, and eventually she stops believing in God. But everyone around her, her family in particular, still maintains their strong belief that he'd guide them out of struggle. Meanwhile, she take things into her own hands for that matter.

And again, everyone would resort to praying, praying, and praying. Yet Schneider wouldn't dare try. Because if he listened to her this one time then they heard all the other times and never cared to help. That rubs salt in the wound.

So with this, we see how Schneider creates her newfound identity. She starts frequenting underground markets and doing certain odd jobs. She is able to make amends with other gang leaders and grow her own strong faction in Chicago.

All so she makes enough money for the rest of her family to eat and thrive. It showcases her sense of selflessness, her full care for her family despite how they treated her. She cares for them more than anything, because even with barely receiving love, they're the ones that raised her. Schneider actively does it all to prove that she can give.

Even in the main story there are those hints of that trauma seeping through. Throughout the game she refers to her bosses as "My Lord", a name that's usually reserved for God.

In the 'Green Oranges' segment of chapter 2, we see that Schneider's younger self describes America as a new world. A place of wonders, where blessings will be given and all sins will be forgiven. There, "God loves the world". Because back in Sicily, she believes that God does not love her and her family here. This ties back to the major Italian emigration in the 1900-1910s, where again, the poverty situation had been so bad. Not to mention the overpopulation and the natural disasters that came with it.

Meanwhile, her adult self is heavily injured from the gunshot wounds and Vertin stops shooting her. She expresses her frustration of being unable to die fast, which then turns to this: "Or did God finally forgive me...He allowed me...to stay alive!!"

"God would never make or guide one to that first action," Schneider thinks, because only she alone did it. She decided to step in, with no guidance of the God she once loved. The God that never forgave her.

The entirety of chapter 1 and 2 shows that her trauma runs really deep. The youngest and most neglected child turns into the most diligent and faithless Greco. She expresses her clear disdain for God, and does everything in her own power to do what "he never did for her and her family."

[avelera]

Thinking about blasphemy and Good Omens right now and I can't help but notice an interesting phenomenon around some discussions I've seen about the Second Coming and Jesus Christ being a character in S3.

Namely, I see much more underlying discomfort around the possibility of the show poking fun at the figure of Jesus Christ than I do with any other prediction discussion or discussion around religion in the show.

On the one hand, I completely understand how poking fun at the Antichrist dogma from Revelations doesn't feel particularly blasphemous, where poking fun at Jesus does. The Antichrist is a stock character of horror at this point. Many more disrespectful teams than Gaiman and Pratchett have played with that story. It's barely even considered poking fun at Christianity to have Adam, the son of Satan, be a good kid in Good Omens. But Jesus is a very important figure to Christians all over the world. There are devout Christians who truly love Jesus and no one wants to be a jerk by just outright disrespecting a figure that is dear to so many.

But on the other hand, expecting Good Omens to not make fun of Jesus is a bit absurd to me. Literally saying, "I don't think the satirical religion show is going to satirize religion because it might upset people." Gaiman hasn't shied away from messing with religion or religious bigots before. He gleefully shrugged off attacks over God being a woman, or Adam and Eve being portrayed by people of color.

The Book of Job is lampooned in Season 2. I know it doesn't feel like it to many people here, but the reinterpretation of the Book of Job in S2 definitely registers as blasphemy on some religious scales. It is satirizing a religious text after all.

Saying that angels and demons fall in love and worse, have that love be portrayed by actors of the same sex could be seen as blasphemy at the very least on the level of saying God is a woman. And by the way, it's not like these religious texts say "God is whatever you want the entity to be" or "God is a woman if that makes you happy". Hell no, the Bible is extremely damn clear on God being male. The official position of the Catholic Church is that God is male. Official Catholic dogma is incredibly anti-female in terms of inherent holiness, women cannot become priests, even nuns are dependent on a priest to deliver the Sacraments, it's a huge deal and they are not planning to change any time soon and it is totally unambiguous.

Making God explicitly female might not seem like a big deal since films like Dogma, another religious satire, did it in the 90s but to True Believes in the official doctrine, that is a form of blasphemy.

Good Omens is by definition a blasphemous work. How offensively blasphemous it is really depends on the devoutness of the viewer. And I find it interesting the extent to which there's something of a knee jerk, "Oh they won't do that!" in terms of further satirizing religion in the show about religious satire. As if Jesus hasn't been satirized in other mainstream movies before like the aforementioned Dogma or Life of Brian.

And here's the thing, my personal opinion is? Blasphemy is good! Blasphemy laws on the books mean it's ok to punish, hurt, or even kill a person for making fun of religion or just doing the religion wrong. Human progress has been frozen in place by blasphemy laws, sciences have progressed when blasphemy laws ease or often while deliberately concealing their efforts from authorities in places where blasphemy laws or laws that were otherwise based on the dominant religion exist.

If anything, I am actually a bit uncomfortable with the idea that Good Omens should hold back on lampooning a figure like Jesus Christ. If devout Christians will make laws that determine what other humans can do with their bodies based on their religion, then their religion should absolutely be open to outright mockery without punishment or ramification to anyone. Of course on an individual level I wouldn't wish to be offensive to someone sincerely religious but at the same time, I am also violently anti-censorship of any kind. And blasphemy and religious mockery are often right at the heart of censorship debates.

The world is a better place when we can openly mock religion.

I'm not going to caveat that as an opinion. Being able to openly and without fear discuss, criticize, and mock religion is an incredibly important part of any free society. The battles over this right have been vicious and bloody and are actively ongoing around the world. Just as an example, anti-blasphemy laws were on the books in Ireland until 2020, there was a huge campaign to have them removed because other countries were pointing to them as an example of why they should keep and exercise such laws.

My point is that I suppose this is something of hyperbole or alarmist or overly strident. I can understand people wanting to be decent about not openly mocking a figure of such importance to so many like Jesus. But quite honestly? I hope Good Omens does whatever it pleases with mocking Jesus. I hope they don't hold back. I hope people remember that being able to mock religion is really important, especially when representatives of that religion are actively trying to clamp down on the rights of others.

And honestly, if religious people are offended they should just not watch or they should develop a thicker skin if they expose themselves to such discourse. Religion and Christianity in particular is an active part of the public sphere. It is worthy of discussion. Public discourse often includes mockery, especially of the powerful and of powerful forces that steer the course of nations, like Christianity.

And I think it's important for Good Omens fans, who are a very progressive group, not to cherry pick and moralize over what satire or blasphemy is permitted. All satire should be permitted. All blasphemy should be permitted. The religious bigots don't care if you think God being a woman is ok but making fun of Jesus isn't. It's all the same, anything but glowing praise is criticism to some of these forces. Open discussion is far more important and yes, that includes mockery, and silly discussions in a silly show about an angel and a demon who avert the Apocalypse and fall in love.

[fandom-space-princess]

how uniquely weird must it have been for Ashley to be the Virmire survivor. her religion is such a central focus of her life, and though I don't think? we ever get elaboration on what that religion Is, given the cultural context the character was written in and her dialogue, it's not a stretch to assume some variety of Christianity might be her baseline. so anyway. here's this intensely devout person. and she watched you, her commander and best friend, die. prayed every day for you after you were gone, by her own admission.

and then one day on some nothing planet called Horizon: you show up. resurrected, apparently. what does that mean for her faith? or even just for her faith in *you*? the way she sees you? is this the miracle she prayed for? but the people who resurrected you, you know, are evil. are you... something unholy to her, now? can you ever again be anything but embodied blasphemy? she loves you so much. she does. but in that moment, she must be so scared of you, too.