#defensive mike wheeler

[gayofthefae]

Thinking about Mike, who is confirmed to not have liked girls before season 1.

Thinking about Mike, and the terrifying queer experience of standing right next to your straight friend who keeps being called gay, shaking, silent, terrified thinking, "They got the wrong one. Just don't draw attention to yourself."

Thinking about Mike, who in some ways was shielded by Will in that.

Thinking about Mike when Will went missing, and how without Will around to target it at, Troy took his homophobia to Mike. It was still about Will, but it was only a matter of time.

Thinking about Mike, just a kid, terrified of getting caught.

Thinking about Mike and the timing of it all.

[gayofthefae]

Because just like with Lucas in season 1, with Hopper and Max in season 3 as well, and even with El in season 4, all he heard is "your behavior with El is not normal" so he discredits, discredits, discredits

"You're acting weird and dumb in order to ignore Dustin" "NO I AM NOT YOU WOULDNT KNOW 'CAUSE YOURE NOT STRAIGHT SO YOU DONT GET IT THAT IM NORMAL"

"There is something very off about this thing between you and El" "YOU LYING SON OF A BITCH YOURE CRAZY"

"You're a bad boyfriend to El" "YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE CONSPIRING AGAINST ME. YOURE MAKING THINGS UP BECAUSE YOU HATE ME NOT 'CAUSE THEYRE TRUE AND IF YOU WERE TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT ME IN FUTURE IT WOULD BE FOR THE SAME REASON"

"It's not my fault you don't like girls!" is hurtful for obvious reasons but have you ever thought about REALLY how insane it is that mike said that

will has given mike no reason to think his anger is just internalized from the fact that will doesn't like girls while the others do. will doesn't mention the concept of liking girls. what mike says has nothing to do with anything will has been saying.

before "it's not my fault you dont like girls" will was talking about dustin. he doesn't get on mike for treating him poorly, he gets on him for treating dustin poorly. and its not like will was veiling his anger as something else, we saw him feel bad for dustin when the others ditched him and say that it had been happening all summer. he cares about dustin, its not all about himself.

"youre destroying everything and for what? so you can swap spit with some stupid girl?" he's referring to the fact that mike and el have been lying all summer so they can ditch the others to make out. it hurts them. it hurts dustin. he's not telling mike to not be attracted to women, he's getting on him for sacrificing his friend group and hurting them to do nothing but make out with a girl.

and what mike gets from that is that will is blaming him for the fact that he's not interested in girls?

mike is talking about will not liking girls, while 2 seconds ago will was talking about dustin. it comes completely out of left field.

like imagine the person who's been your best friend since the first day of kindergarten, the person who witnessed you be bullied and tormented and called slurs for years, the person who DEFENDED YOU from those people, has taken a jab at you for not liking girls completely out of nowhere. imagine how painful that is.

and and even better question is what changed in mike to make him say something like that??

sorry let me say this one more time. will was getting on mike for treating dustin poorly, and mike brought up the concept of liking girls.

projection 101

[wheeler-fan]

not now sweetie someone mischaracterized mike wheeler

[lunabug2004]

The first time I watched s4, I remember thinking this

was such strange blocking for Mike... Like why isn't he celebrating with the others?

Then I remembered the way he's been pulling away from everyone since s2. This is a perfect clue put in for the audience to realize/remember this.

He's not only being hidden from the audience, he's hiding himself from his friends as well!

Istg the blocking in this show is actually genius.

[teambyler]

Mike DOES have a loving family (Byler analysis)

A common explanation for Mike having trouble telling El he loves her is that "he came from a loveless family." Not only is that inadequate -- Nancy couldn't tell Steve she loved him and it wasn't because she came from the same "loveless family." But I also don't think it's true.

Sure, Ted is distant. But Karen is very much emotionally available to her children. So I see this claim to be an instance of Karen Slander(TM).

Look at these moments where Karen made clear that it's okay to show love:

Karen is a loving mother when it counts. She only isn't as involved because she hasn't been included (yet) into the gang dealing with the Upside Down.

Not to suggest that the Wheelers that don't say "I love you," but there are families that don't say it that ARE close, affectionate, loving. It's just known. Similarly, saying "I love you" isn't even an issue for other relationships in this show: not for Lumax and Jopper. That's because their actions show that they love each other. And that's how relationships really need to be evaluated.

So no, I don't think having a "loveless family" adequately explains Mike not being able to tell El "I love you" outside of when her life's at stake. If one does love someone, one WILL say it when that person is pleading for you to say it.

Which El asked Mike to, but he couldn't. And Steve asked Nancy to in s2, but she couldn't. And we know how that turned out.

It's not that Mike can't tell anyone he loves them. Mike has no problem showing love:

-teambyler

[demondog27]

WHY THE HESITATION, MICHAEL?

[tsunauticus]

Still thinking about how back in 2022 when people were denying that Will was gay even though in interviews they were like “Will likes someone but it’s not El :)”

Like… who else could he like? Karen? The hoops people went through to deny he was gay I swear

[hawkins-batman]

Okay, so my usual content is Will Byers/Noah Schnapp centric, but I'm gonna take a minute to come to Mike Wheeler's defense, because a Mileven post I saw earlier REALLY reeked of homophobia and it bothered the fuck out of me.

Hi. I'm a gay dude. I had my first crush on a guy when I was 11ish. Maybe 12 - around the age of dear ol' Mike in Season 1. I didn't know WHY I found said boy pretty. I just knew that I couldn't stop looking at him and I did, in fact, find him pretty. I made this discovery about myself while living in a town of about 10,000 people in bumfuck Oklahoma. Not the best place to discover you were interested in the same sex.

Growing up in a VERY Christian conservative environment, I didn't realize what being "gay" was until I was 13 or 14 — about the time the preacher of the church my family made me go to just happened to mention that people who were gay were going to burn in Hell forever, which led me to VICIOUSLY suppress my sexuality all throughout high school. During that time, I had two girlfriends (they asked me out) because that's what I was told all men were supposed to do and because I was convinced doing so would get rid of these feelings I kept having towards other boys.

I realized at about the age of 17 that that wasn't happening. It wasn't going away, and went into a severe depressive episode, until, rather recently, when I moved away from home to attend school elsewhere, I did the work of deconstructing all the bad religion and politics my parents shoved down my throat, came out as gay, and have been living as an openly homosexual dude ever since.

So if you're a Mileven that's out there saying "Mike's not gay hahaha Will, you're not going to turn Mike gay, sorry gay boy hahaha" Fuck you. You were every person who made me feel like shit growing up and Mike Wheeler would hate you — whether he turns out to be gay narratively in Season 5 or not. And so would Eleven.

Yes, Mike Wheeler can still be gay. Or bi or pan, or whatever his character is written to be. He can still be gay and have dated Eleven. Dating a girl does not make you straight.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[booksandpaperss]

imagine if the events of stranger things happened when ao3 first started being around solely so that Mike could do the classic ao3 author cliche of abandoning his fic for 5 years and then updating it with an authors note saying “hey guys bet u thought I was dead 😎 sorry this took so long my best friend literally got kidnapped and then possessed by an eldritch horror that turned out to be controlled by some fucked up dude and it turned into a whole war everyone in my hometown and all my friends and family almost died lol anyways here have some angst of me projecting my childhood trauma and PTSD into this today #winning”

[the--last-great-american-dynasty]

i know we talk about will revealing his gun ability in the context of byler and it being a big thing (which i really do love), but realistically, every single main member should have a weapon skill during season five.

this is the first time they’re expecting the attack. at the end of every other season, they thought that they had won and finished everything. but not season four. and for season five, they know it’s coming. and there’s going to be a year and half time skip. they have to be preparing for the battle. and they have to ready to be attacked at anytime.

they aren’t stupid, nor are they clueless anymore. even if they are going to school and trying to live ‘normally’, they’re still aware of what’s coming. they know that the ones with already defined weapons skills aren’t always going to be there to protect them.

everyone should have a weapon they can use well. whether it be a gun or a bat or a spear, everyone should have something they can use with enough skill to defend themselves, because they could be dead otherwise.

[carrionofamurderprey]

In Defense of Nancy Wheeler,

a short collection of thoughts concocted by someone who is very used to defending a character that is shitted on and misunderstood by half the fandom and victimized by poor writing choices.

1.) In Defense of her being a bad friend

"she abandoned barb and that's why she died"

principally... a shitty thing to do, but i'd ARGUE it was a lapse of judgement that literally triggers her entire character arc. HEAR ME..

and a weaker, but still valid argument that does not excuse her decision, but is fair nonetheless.. how was she supposed to know barb was going to get swallowed up by an inter dimensional monster in the pool???… just saying. JUST SAYING.

Like I mentioned, it triggered a huge character arc for Nancy. Nancy felt awful that Barb went missing, and she recognized her faults. This guilt and confusion toward the tragedy led her to other realizations, like the state of her relationship, who Steve is as a person, and her own identity. My girl had a lot on her plate and she paid her debts in FULL solving Hawkins mysteries to not only compensate for what happened to Barb, but protect her friends and family!!!!!!

Don’t even get me started on how she felt not being able to tell Barb’s parents once she found out what really happened. Must’ve been awful.

2.) In defense of her shitty love triangle (my biggest point arguably)

everyone who hates her because of the love triangle she's subjected to are (and i’m sorry to say it but not really,) stupid. her character is obviously trying to break out of being central to a love triangle, but the writers can not for the life of them figure out what to do with steve and jonathan past s3 developmentally, which keeps her stuck in that place.

Nancy is so badass and has so much potential.

Someone also pointed out the underlying misogynistic issue of keeping women’s development “at bay,”— whether it be intentional or not!!— by having their entire importance dependent on male characters. That’s a post for another day, though.

and i'd like to point out she's not in a place like el, who is also in a canon love triangle, but also completely able to realize and explore her independence after catalysts (being friends with max, breaking up with mike).

THIS IS BECAUSE SHE HASNT HAD THE CHANCE TO BE AUTHENTICALLY ALONE AND REALIZE THE IMPACT OF HER OWN CATALYSTS (barb incident, solving hawkins mysteries)!

nancy’s character— to me and many others feels like she is given the illusion of choice by the writers. nancy in her love triangle is more like mike in his. she is not given the same opportunity to branch out, and is instead stuck choosing between two people, like mike. el's only choice is mike or herself. despite both being female characters that discover their independence, nancy isn't far enough on the receiving end to have her own arc.

Now logically, Nancy could branch out and be alone, and so could Mike. However, just like Mike is set up to be in love with Will, Nancy is set up to be in love with her male interests. Whereas this is sets a tone of freedom and accomplishment for Mike’s character, this.. to me, sets a tone of imprisonment and stillness for Nancy’s.

Final: There is still hope for Nance in s5

i would really like to see more parallels between these two friendships in season 5. like el and max, robin and nancy didn't start off being best friends!!

nancy was standoffish toward robin like el was with max, and they both reacted that way because of a boy, but then slowly realized they valued their female friendship more than romance.

this friendship helped el escape vecna and the idea that she needs approval from the males in her life.

i think it would be cool if they didsomething like that with robin and nancy instead of keeping her at such a stand still with steve and jonathan in the final season.

FIN🤌🏾

[gayofthefae]

You know how I know Mike is queer?

These are the same person. Mike is an inherently caring, loving, and protective person. It's what Will called out in 4x08 and reminded us of with Mike's desire and practice in attempt to be a "hero" and be able to help the ones he loves.

But when El tells him she feels unloved by him, he doesn't comfort her. At all. He defends himself. He doesn't even say "yes I do". He says "I say it". Even when he's arguing that he loves her, he is defending himself, not comforting her. If he was comforting her he would have reacted to her crying at all. He doesn't. He just becomes increasingly desperate and escalates the tactics that are making her cry more.

Because the accusation is that important to him. Not many things could be so important to him that he would deprioritize her or taking care and protecting and comforting those he loves. He even does quite well at it at the start of the scene. We have PROOF that he is pretty stable these days with any sort of accusation or invalidation with how well he takes "you don't understand" and simply asks questions without any sort of offense. So he CAN take it. He takes it IN THIS CONVERSATION.

But when she says he doesn't love him, he stops the "they just don't know you". He stops the "don't say that about yourself, you're lovable," which is what this is really about for her. If he had said that even if he couldn't say it himself, it might have still helped a little bit: frame it as his own fault if he can't. But he couldn't do that. Instead, he went with how it reflected on HIM that he couldn't say it and defended himself AGAINST her. FOUGHT her on it.

There are few things that can make him fight a person. And they've all actually been pretty similar. They're all El:

"You're prioritizing El over Will"

"There is something off about your relationship with El"

"You're prioritizing El over [Will]"

"He's right that your and [El's] relationship wasn't a good one"

"Your and El's relationship wasn't a good one"

"You're prioritizing El over [Will]"

"You don't love [El]"

He is comforting. He is kind. He prioritizes others' comfort and safety consistently. He takes other accusations fairly lightly and focuses back onto the person making them and their emotions. And yet, what does he say in those instances and only those instances?

"SHUT. UP."

"You lying piece of shit. You're crazy!"

"It's not my fault you don't like girls!"

"He's just some crazy old man"

"You're conspiring against me!"

"We're friends! We're friends!"

"You're being ridiculous. What is this?"

People who say his character has gotten worse are stating it under the idea that he is always like this. The entire discovery so many people, including myself, had that he's queer was because we noticed that his outbursts were consistent. People think he's random and angry because they think the situations are random: Lucas, Hopper, Will, Max, El. But they're forgetting to note what each of those people questioned about him right before.

The biggest proof is that he doesn't ever talk like this outside of these situations. It's lighthearted debates and empathetic conversations.

Mike Wheeler is a kind person. If he said "You're being ridiculous. What is this?" it is not just because he's scared of vulnerability or commitment.

[love-byers]

....wait . there are people who don't think the show is centered around will? there are people who don't think a core part of s5 will be wills culmination as a character?? there are people who don't think the entire supernatural plot will circle back to will???

besides the fact that the duffers LITERALLY CONFIRMED that will is the center of s5...

the show itself literally tells you. that is the narrative they've been pushing the entire time.

the entire first season is about finding will. every single plotline is connected to finding will.

mike and the boys are using el to find will

jonathan and nancy are working together to hunt the monster they believe has taken will and barb

joyce is trying to communicate with will to find out where he is and how to save him

hopper is a cop investigating the case, and eventually he and joyce team up to investigate further into the lab conspiracy, believing it's tied to wills disappearance

a massive chunk of s2 is about wills connection to the upside down. he's being hunted by the mind flayer and used as a spy, causing a lot of the conflict but also leading to the resolution.

now that we know vecna was behind all of that, that open so many doors for will in s5. if you use your fucking peanut brain for 5 seconds you'll realize there are lots of things we don't know surrounding will and vecna that will come to light in s5. vecna specifically sought will out and hunted him down. remember s2?

"It wanted to kill you?"

"Not me. Everyone else."

we're also getting flashbacks of will in the upside down so we can see exactly what happened to him the week he was there. clearly there's something important we don't know about. the upside down is literally frozen on the day will went missing. but will isn't important and won't be a big part of s5?

s3 is the first time will is less significant to the plot. he still has the connection to the mind flayer and his ability to sense it is still relevant to the story and helps push it along. bit still, he had significantly less lines and screen time. much of his story is portrayed as him struggling to 'grow up' and not being interested in romance like the others. there are several jokes that present will as simply being childish and reluctant to grow out of it. which a lot of people found sort of annoying. i remember seeing a lot of people enjoying s3, but wishing will had more depth and importance.

but we now know that that's not the whole truth. all of that, him being annoyed and disinterested by romance, just wanting to play dnd with the party, and fighting with mike was all subtext leading into his sexuality and the fact that he's in love with mike. that's been confirmed by actors and the duffers themselves. though will's sexuality was always hinted at, it wasn't meant to fully come to light until s4. so they tried to pass it off as will just being childish. they tried to pass of mike and wills conflict as only being about dnd and growing up. a prime example of this is will tearing down castle byers after his fight with mike. he rips the photo of the core 4 as the ghostbusters down the middle, aka where he and mike are in the center. that is easily passed off as just being about the friend group. people BELIEVED that it was just about the friend group, and that there was no way will was in love with mike. but it's now literally confirmed that he is. like it's insane how many people never even considered that as a possibility. people literally just tune out parts of the show they don't immediately find interesting. i've seen so many comments on byler scenes, for example "it's not my fault you don't like girls", saying "wait i don't remember this scene when did he say that??" people just don't pay attention or think deeper than surface level, which in this case is okay because wills sexuality was meant to be something you slowly realized. the problem comes when people just start denying its significance and refusing to see it for what it is.

if you take in all of will's story with mike and whittle it down to "stupid gay crush on best friend" i don't know what show YOUVE been watching. did you forget that will only remembered his mom and mike when he was possessed and lost his memory? that mike recounting the day they met was enough for will to break through and communicate while possessed? that will puts mikes happiness before his own? that will has literally said he needs mike and always will?

it's not a crush that will can just get over. you know we actually have an example of a simple crush and it's dustin and max. how did that work out? dustin got over max very quickly and it's no biggie. he didn't go on a monologue about how he needs max and always will. he just thought she was cool and pretty.

also, the show spends so much time getting the audience to feel bad for will and want to see him happy. you are SUPPOSED to like him. you are supposed to have empathy for him. will is written to be extremely gentle, kind, and selfless.

will is too nice to say anything bad about anyone, even after being viscously bullied and called slurs for years. even by his own father, WHO HE STILL CANT TALK BAD ABOUT!!!

no matter how much will suffers, he remains kind and selfless. he gave a girl his tonka truck knowing joyce couldn't by him another one. mike says they shouldn't give up on looking for him because will sacrificed himself in dnd to save the party. remember the whole thing in s2 about joyce getting on will for constantly apologizing even when he did nothing wrong? there is no point to that besides evoking empathy for him!!!!! he is sweet and sensitive and doesn't deserve any of this!!!!!!!!

and about bylers being delusional for thinking will and mikes relationship will be a big part of s5 and the culmination of everything in a show about monsters killing people, here's a quote from shawn levy, who has directed many stranger things episodes

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

everyone loves the stranger things relationships until they're queer. when they're queer suddenly there's no time for romance in a sci fi show, the writers actually suck, and they're just baiting. lumax and their love for each other was a core plot of the season where the big bad was trying to kill her all season. there is an entire plot point about max's memory of kissing lucas at the snow ball saving her life. in a show like this, there is time for relationships and supernatural stuff because they are interwoven when the time comes. they can do the exact same thing with byler in s5. s5 is going to be the longest season thus far. there will definitely be time for relationship development.

so yeah. call me delusional but i don't think the show will end with wills feelings for mike unresolved or with them just evaporating. given everything we know about s5 (relationships and finding belonging being an important factor, noah and finn constantly filming together, leakers saying will has a love interest) and everything we already know about the relationship formulas in ST, literally all the signs are pointing to byler. the only rebuttal people have is calling us delusional because the writers just wouldn't do that. if you actually push past the heteronormativity and consider the fact that the duffers do want to represent queer people in a way that doesn't reinforce the idea that we can never find love or be happy, things will start making a lot more sense.

i'm sorry to have to say this about mike but mike is a character presumed straight who hasn't been super relevant in the supernatural plot for 2 seasons now, just as long as will. his significant plot points are related to el or will. relationship development. and unlike will, he has been an ACTUAL asshole!!!! lots of people stopped liking mike as much after s2 because of his personality change. (ofc i still love mike, but there's been multiple plot lines about mike being a dick for no reason and apologizing for it) but no one has VISCERAL hatred for him like they do will byers. not saying mike deserves hate, cause he certainly doesn't, but the problems people have with will, they only have with will. any other character doing it is fine. 2 seaons of wills feelings for mike is boring and distracting but 2 seasons of mike having the same 'i love you' problems with el isn't?

i'm not saying the sudden hate for will is because it's now clear that he's gay but im kind of saying it

some people can't sympathize with queer issues because they don't care about queer people. they don't empathize with queer people. queer issues bore them.

will byers i will ALWAYS defend you. you are safe with me pookie

[wheeler-fan]

Can we please talk about how people downplay Mike's trauma over losing Will and El?

Mike lost Will, first Will went missing while returning from Mike's house which probably made Mike feel guilty, then he literally watched his body being fished out of the water, there was even a funeral. People don't pay attention to how hard these days must have been for him - and why? because Will is back, safe and sound. People in the fandom and the characters in the show, no one pays attention to it. Fans think that how much Mike cares for Will in season two is a reflection of his romantic feelings for him - no one wants to connect it to his trauma. The characters in Stranger Things don't pay attention to it either because Will is back so it doesn't count, everyone talks about Nancy losing Barb but no one talks about Mike because at least his friend is back.

Mike lost El, and he was literally going crazy even though he had only known her for a few days. He fell into depression and couldn't come to terms with the loss so he was calling her for 353 days. Her return is a miracle from heaven for Mike, and the way he behaves after her return, how much he cares for her, what makes him look like someone who wants to control her even though he doesn't. All this is the result of the trauma he had to go through alone without any help. People say Mike has no trauma which always surprises me because people see Nancy's trauma after losing her friend or Joyce's trauma after losing her lover, so why can't they see Mike's? because the two people he was mourning are back, and no one cares about Mike's feelings anymore. This boy had to (still has to) do everything he could to look like a normal teenager without any problems because no one took his problems seriously anymore.

remember, this post is not about romantic things related to this character, it doesn't matter if you ship byler or mileven, this is a post about mike and his trauma, take it easy, thank you

[lunabug2004]

I find it so interesting how the Duffers tried to make it so obvious that Mike (and Will, this post just isn't about him 😂) is the missing piece to the 'defeating Vecna' puzzle. Yet some people still refuse that it's true!

I've seen people argue Mike's importance with "but Nancy and Dustin are just as smart, and they've also made plans" but season 4 directly counters that argument. The plan Nancy and Dustin make does not work! Mike's plans are the only ones that have never failed!

I've seen so many reactors say, "they have El, ofc they'll win!" And the characters in the show are guilty of this, too! But El cannot just go in alone and win! Look at season 2 for example, if Mike had not come up with the plan of distracting the demodogs, El and Hop wouldn't have had a chance of making it out of that lab alive!

I know people have said this many times before, but Mike would've seen through that, honestly terrible, s4 plan immediately! I'm so ready to see him back in his role as leader in s5 and for people to finally understand what the Duffers have been trying to tell us: that the only way the Party can succeed is with everyone present and working together as full team, with their leader, Michael Wheeler!!!

[frogfacee]

i think some people get too committed to the idea that will’s van speech was entirely a cover for his emotions, and we forget that he genuinely believes this is true for el. yes it was wrong to lie, yes he’ll most likely face consequences for that, but he isn’t just trying to let his own emotions out.

he believes that mike makes el feel better for her differences. he doesn’t know what the audience does, that that’s not true, because he wasn’t there for their fight that revealed that. so he wants mike to know what he believes to be true, because mike has just expressed that he wants el to need him. he doesn’t think it’ll mean anything coming from him. so, he shares what he thinks is true for el, and is made more emotional by the fact that 1) it’s true for him, 2) he doesn’t think mike wants to hear that, and 3) the painting that the speech builds to is entirely about his own feelings.

thank you for coming to my surface level analysis refresher. back to the crazy theories we go, now remembering and valuing will byers’ layered motivations. don’t forget the text in the midst of subtext 🫶🫶