#dc fandome titans panel

[raptorific]

I have this really weird pet peeve in comics fandom, which you can't really Talk About without it being mistaken for opposition to those headcanons in the the way certain Spider-Man fans were so opposed to a black Peter Parker that the writers invented Miles Morales about it, with the way Diverse Headcanons form, become popular, and occasionally even become mistaken for canon.

A lot of the time these headcanons are built on a combination of ethnic stereotypes and an outright refusal to engage with existing characters who actually have those identities in a way that generates the money that gets those characters further official content

The core example is the common headcanons about Robins prior to Damian-- the most popular headcanons about them are that Jason is Latino and Tim is Asian. And, like, I'm not necessarily opposed to them being Robins Of Color, and I'm not even necessarily opposed to those headcanons, but their popularity largely comes from unexamined biases and ethnic stereotypes about Latino and Asian men. The aggressive, hot-headed, violent Robin who came from a poor neighborhood must be Latino, and the well-off, nerdy teacher's pet Robin who's known for being good at computers must be Asian. I've seen Bat-fans balk at the suggestion of headcanoning Tim as Latino, or headcanoning Jason (or god forbid Dick) as Asian, often saying the quiet part loud: "it just doesn't fit their personality." They cast a black actor as Tim on Titans and I actually saw people who bill themselves as progressives complaining about it, because it ignores the popular Asian Tim headcanon

And the thing is, there actually are a fair number of fun Latino and Asian characters in DC canon! They're nowhere near as prominent, but, when you ask these same fans to maybe pay some attention to them, they make excuses and hem and haw and stick to making comic panel edits "correcting" the skin tones and facial features of their favorite canon white dudes to align with their headcanons. But if you ask them to make fanart or talk for even a second Jaime Reyes or Renee Montoya or Cass Cain, it's like herding cats

[soleminisanction]

Once again got a bee in my bonnet to spend a night doing obscure fandom research to make a point, so. For all those people who keep making the annoying, "Tim keeps '''stealing'' other peoples' names" comments -- have a table.

EDIT: Updated version with some mistakes corrected.

Everyone with a check mark has used that codename at some point in DC's 80+ year continuity -- Elseworlds and alternate dimensions/timelines count, adaptations (movies, video games, cartoons, etc.) don't unless they've got comic book tie-ins, and neither do in-universe dream sequences/illusions/fantasies/other narrative elements that are objectively "not real" within the boundaries of the fiction.

A purple marker indicates an element that only applies in Elseworlds or alternate timelines. Yellow is for the originator of the legacy title. Star symbol is for borderline cases/extenuating circumstances/it's open to interpretation (with some further elaboration below).

The "other" column is just there to account for people who've held lesser or non-legacy titles, like Renegade, Wingman, Arkham Knight, Drake, Redbird, Talon, Deadman, Black Bat, Orphan and Catwoman.

Point being: the people who have actually gone through the most legacy titles in this family are Dick, Babs and Jason, tied with 5 each (again, not counting "other;" if we counted those separately Dick would've had by far the most). Tim is tied with Steph AND Helena Wayne, so unless you're whining about them "stealing other peoples' names" you're just wrong, and they're all only one higher than Damian, Carrie and Bruce.

This is a legacy family that passes their codenames up and down the inheritance line. It's what they do. It's not a legitimate criticism to level at one character and not the others. Please get over it.

---

Further elaboration on some of the lesser known/niche cases:

- Bruce uses the Robin ID in Superman & Batman: Generations, as well as the pre-Crisis Detective Comics #226 story.

- In the second half of Thrillkiller ‘62, Babs cuts her hair and dons the Robin costume worn by her deceased partner Dick to get revenge on his killer; however the only name ever used for her in the series is Batgirl

- Cassandra was a member of the Robins orphan gang from Dark Knights of Steel.

- Duke was a member of the We Are Robins gang, as well as the aforementioned DKS orphan gang, and has appeared as Robin in a couple of Elseworlds, including I believe a White Knight spin-off.

- Cass was Batwoman in one of the versions of the Titans Tomorrow, as was Bette Kane, depending on changes to the timeline.

- Babs is Batwoman in the Batman ‘66 comics and in the 1980 story “The Secret Origin of Bruce (Superman) Wayne”

- Earth-3 Steph is Batwoman in Young Justice 2019.

- Helena Wayne is Batwoman in the possible future story Last Rites

- Tim is a member of the Batgirls vigilante/little league baseball team in the DC Bombshells universe, as is Cullen Row. Some call them the “Batboys” instead. I call those people cowards.

- Helena Bertinelli wore the costume that would later become Cass’s signature Batgirl look during No Man’s Land. However, she was more often referred to as “The Bat” and her Batgirl status is up to individual interpretation.

- Dick didn’t originate the Nightwing name, it started with Clark in the Silver Age.

- Steph has never been Nightwing. The panel where she appears in the costume is a Black Mercy illusion that happens only in her own mind. It’s a dream sequence.

- Barbara was Nightwing in the Smallville Season 11 comics.

- Terry was briefly Nightwing in volume 4 of Batman Beyond.

- Damian briefly became Nightwing after accidentally killing Dick in the Injustice series.

- Dick is Oracle in the “Eight Wonders of the World” version of Earth 2 (aka the Black Superman dimension)

[nightwingsgirlfriend]

i hate golden child Dick Grayson. everyone ignores how ANGRY this kid actually was. We rarely get accurate dick grayson, all the teen titans shows have been so off on his personality (you cannot tell me they accidentally made the character tim and realised halfway through wrong robin) and the fandom sees him as "oh everyone finds him attractive + he's Bruce's perfect angel and Jason hates him because of that"

no he literally killed the joker.

why do we skim over that he KILLED THE JOKER. He didn't even know Jason; bruce was his father and he not only refused to kill the joker, interfered when someone else tried to but hit jason in the same way after he came back. His SON. But dick felt so strongly about a kid he regretted not getting close to that he killed a man.

and then if you think that was a one off

in that panel where he fully BEATS Bruce's ass in gotham war? served. ate.

people dumb him down way too often like he wasn't the first robin. you cannot out do the doer so they gotta drag him down to bring others up.

not to mention the fanon portrayal ignores the trauma he has from liu, mirage and tarantula. it looks at that and goes "ok! cool but he IS a flirt :3" he isn't allowed to grieve in the comics either because SOMEBODY (devin) won't let him because he "didn't say no"

and give jason his own friends DC please stop giving him handmedowns he deserves more (i do love him and roy i just wish they also maintained the roy dick friendship because it's usually one or the other)

thabk yoau and gooenight

[ave-on-main]

“Pre-boot Roy's dynamic with Slade is what fanon wishes Dick's relationship with Slade would be” is a bad faith fanon myth.

I’ve seen this statement go around since Dark Crisis ended last year and wittnessed people actually believe it, so here we go: It’s not true.

First of, lets talk about what allegedly makes pre-boot Roy the person that fanon thinks Dick is to Slade:

One panel that gets taken out of context to prove the statement above is Slade talking about Roy as his “ace in the hole” in Titans (2008) which gets equated to Slade calling Dick a “trophy” in Dark Crisis (2022). In context, these two instances are not the same. Comparing them makes no sense. More on why in the Roy section of this little essay.

Another point of contention is that Rebirth Dick secretly works together with Slade to protect the Titans (2016). People claim that is a rehash of what happened when Roy worked together with Slade while Roy was the leader of the Outsiders (2003), but the premises are entirely different. In Titans Dick works with Slade to protect the other team members. In Outsiders Roy uses Slade’s intel and funding without knowing he’s speaking to Slade. He thinks Slade is Batman.

It is also worth noting that the Rebirth version has more in common with the Apprentice arc of Teen Titans Animated 2003. TT 03 came out at the same time Outsiders did. Slade was revealed to be Roy’s contact in Outsiders #21 (February 2005). The first time Slade appears as Batman is Outsiders #4 (September 2003), but it is not known to readers or characters that Batman is not Bruce. The Apprentice arc of TT 03 started in Season 1 Episode 11 (October 2003). The show didn’t copy the comics, nor assumably did the comics copy the show. It could be a weird attempt at synergy to reveal Slade in 2005 but it is unlikely because DC cared very little about synergy at the time. Worth noting though is, that Slade’s role in Outsiders is extremely limited. Once his identity is revealed, he is no longer part of the plot.

Now, in fanon, the Rebirth version of events is largely ignored. If anyone in fandom wants to talk about Dick working with Slade, they’ll mostly use the more thought out version of the show as a blueprint or the Renegade arc of Nightwing (1996). Both comic and show are also actually written by writers who like Dick unlike Deathstroke 2016.

That Roy is important to Rose’s developement isn’t true. She babysits Lian but she barely talks to Roy or any of the adult Titans while she appears in Titans (1999).  Nightwing: Renegade retcons that Dick was there while she babysitted Lian, but all Roy does is villify Rose, not once implying that he had anything to do with getting her on the Titans.

Equally as untrue is that Slade is actually obsessed with Roy over Dick. It’s a purely fanon take.

There’s also this conspiracy going around that Slade & Dick stans working at DC are retconning things to make Dick look better, which is, I can’t say it differently, an insane statement to make. Dan Didio erased the Slade-Dick rivalry from existance, so much so that Higgins could not use them in the same story even though he was writing both New 52 books. Seeley & King could merely put Deathstroke into Grayson (2014) as a papershield target practice. Christopher Priest dislikes Dick, which he not only states on his blog but is also obvious in his writing (Deathstroke #4). Interestingly, the people screaming about retcons ruining everything had nothing to say about Rebirth Roy being part of the NTT roaster while Grant attacks the team (Lazarus Contract).

Infinite Frontier ties Dick and Slade together once more, but it is almost all talk and no show. It’s a distant echo of their pre-boot relationship. There was zero build up to their reconnection. Frankly, a Dick & Slade stan would put a lot more effort into it. The only reason DC brought a semblance of their rivalry back was because of Red X nostalgia and it shows. Dick only dons the Deathstroke mask in Future State: Teen Titans to complement Red X and his hunt for Deathstroke in Teen Titans Academy is mention but never shown, not even as a one panel flashback.

Meanwhile Green Arrow is now the first hero Deathstroke fought (Deathstroke Inc. Year One) and Slade encounters Roy soon after (Infinite Frontier: Secret Files #2). DC is still trying to tie Slade to the JL rather than to the Titans.

But what are their actual Pre-Boot relationships?

Vastly different, that’s for sure. 

At first, Dick is largely tied to Slade because of Joey and the similarities (skill-wise) Slade sees in Dick. Later Dick’s ties to Slade’s children and what that causes makes respect turn into hate. 

Slade gets involved with Roy because of Cheshire and to manipulate the Outsiders by orders of Dr. Sivana. 

Roy Harper and Slade Wilson

Roy in Deathstroke (1991)

The first time Slade and Roy properly meet (aka actually share a word) is in Deathstroke The Terminator (1991) #18. They are both undercover and pretend to work with Cheshire.

Jade introduces Roy to Slade, and Jade “asks” for Slade’s help by using what amounts to a slave ring she can reactivate any time to control him. Together with her other underlings they set out to steal nuclear warheads.

Not knowing they could be on the same side, Roy betrays the team by going after Slade. Slade defeats him, and Roy is left in enemy territory.

Roy makes his way back after Cheshire has already nuked Qurac. The destruction makes Slade and Roy temporarly work together to apprehend Jade and reveal their allegiances to each other (#20).

While Roy is on the Titans when Rose joins the team in the following crossover event, she doesn’t interact one-on-one with him. All he does is give Impulse relationship advice because Bart is crushing on Rose (The New Titans #126).

Titans (1999)

Roy and Slade meet when Tartarus attacks H.I.V.E. which at that point is lead by an incognito Adeline Kane but don’t have a one-on-one interaction in thie story.

Their first true confrontation takes place later. Slade’s been contracted to kill Cheshire due to her nuking Qurac. As Slade and Roy fight, Slade mentions Nightwing as a comparison between the two, and even though Roy temporarly gains the upperhand, Slade escapes to go after Jade. (#22)

Rose starts to babysit Lian after the Deathstroke & Qurac incident, but weirdly enough, she barely shares a word with any of the adult Titans. She’s really just kind of there.

Outsiders (2003)

Roy believes Batman is giving him intel and is funding the Outsiders  (#6, #11) . In truth, the Batman who he’s been talking to is Slade.

It's when Dick learns that Roy hasn't been talking to the real Bruce, that Slade reveals himself. Slade fights Roy, taunting him about killing him and adopting Lian to make her an assassin. Slade realizes Roy isn't on top of his game and sees the five direct bullet wounds he's received on an earlier Outsiders mission. Taking pity, Slade decides to leave him alive (#21).

In #43 the Outsiders learn that Slade was hired by Dr. Sivana. The mad scientist saw potential in manipulating the team. It was not Slade’s idea to go after the Outsiders.

Titans (2008)

When Slade creates his own Titans team, Cheshire convinces Arsenal to join the team with her. She wants to use the opportunity to kill Slade. Roy pretends to have switched allegiances and joins the team.

Slade knows not to trust them. He uses Roy’s drug addiction against him by switching out Roy’s “regular” drugs with a substance called “Bliss”. (#27)

Later Slade uses Roy as his “ace in the hole” when the Justice League confronts them. He threatens to blow up his ship with a warhead. The League, lead by Dick as Batman, retreats as not to harm Roy. In this case, “always his ace” means the reason Roy is on the team is to be used as a human meat shield because other heroes still care for him (Annual #1).

At the end of this arc, Roy betrays the team and decides against resurrecting Lian and with that stops Slade from resurrecting Grant. Slade swears revenge on him because Roy literally did what the New Teen Titans did. “Killing Grant.” The Titans comic and the entire Pre-New 52 universe end with Roy and Joey deciding to reform the Titans because Dick still believed in the teams value.

Apart from the initial Qurac storyline, there’s no canon Slade and Roy story in which Dick doesn’t at least get mentioned.

Pre-New 52 Dick Grayson and Slade Wilson

New (Teen) Titans

Dick belongs to the six New Teen Titans that Slade originally takes on a contract against (New Teen Titans (1980) #02). Slade contacts the team soon after their first meeting to take them out. Dick plays the voice of reason during that second encounter and makes the Titans listen to Slade’s plan. Slade fails to kill them (#10).

During the Judas Contract, Slade learns Robin’s secret identity through Tara’s spying on the Titans (Tales of the Teen Titans #42). Slade attacks Dick in his office, telling him he won’t kill him if Dick doesn’t resist because H.I.V.E. wants the Titans dead or alive. Dick knows he can’t win a hand-to-hand fight against Slade and manages to trick him. Slade admires how Dick escapes, ascertaining that Dick is the leader for a reason. He’s the hardest to catch because powers don’t make a man. Just like Dick, Slade was the best even before he got augmented. It’s a first for Slade to loose his target. He blames it on being worried about the contract.

While Adeline and Joey get in contact with Dick, Slade delivers the Titans sans-Dick to H.I.V.E. (#43). Adeline proceeds to tell Dick how Slade became Deathstroke the Terminator. Afterward Joey and Dick team up to save the Titans (#44).

After Tara loses herself in her rage and dies, Dick concludes Slade and she were manipulating each other (Annual #3).

Dick remains in contact with the D.A. office to ensure the Titans are still going to testify against Slade but a Deathstroke imposter attacks Lilith. Slade’s attorney spins a defense out of the imposter (#53). Gar has his own plans for Slade while Dick and the Titans want to focus on aprehending the imposter. Dick gets sworn in as an expert witness on matters of identity, and he tries to use what Adeline told him about Slade in court, but Slade’s attorney uses Dick’s words against the Titans. Slade doesn’t go on further trial but will remain detained in prison and has a small confrontation with Dick. (#54)

Wildbeests are hunting the Titans and Slade gets hired by Dayton to save Gar and the others. He would have gone after them regardless to save Joey. He ends up searching out Dick’s apartment first, probably in hopes he hasn’t been captured yet (#71). Slade doesn’t realize that Dick is one of the Wildbeests he encounters, and the one who helpes Slade escape from the second Wildbeest.

The Wildbeests realize they have a spy and overpower Dick. Slade catches Pantha just as she finds pieces of Dick’s costume (#74). Slade invades the Wildbeest base, and Joey reveals himself to Dick and him (#75). The two end up fighting Joey, but can’t get through to him. Dick implores Slade to calm down and focus as they escape to Titans Tower. There, Slade stops Pantha when she attacks Dick shortly before the Wildbeests attack the base. Slade and Dick escape together. While Slade can’t believe Joey is doing this, Dick is the more realistic of the two. 

Later, Slade gets them out of a tough situation by morally questionably methods. Slade expects a response from Dick but gets a proverbial shrug (#76).

Shortly before their final confrontation with Joey, Slade decides he has no other choice than to kill Joey, which Dick is against. Slade kills his son because he knows the real Joey regarded the Titans as friends (#84).

Slade and Dick meet on the Titans Tower island afterward. Dick notices him, which according to Slade not many are able to do. Dick asks why he couldn’t be bothered to show up at the funeral of the son he killed. 

Dick attacks Slade in his grief over Joey, telling him to fight back. Slade does if only to tell him he lost someone too. Their fight ends when Dick admits he doesn’t get how Slade and Bruce can just keep bottling their anger up, he’d explode. Slade tells him that losing control hasn’t done him anything good and that he has to believe he freed Joey. He then shows concern for having injured Dick, but Dick denies his help, and they part ways without anything truly resolved (#86).

Dick in Deathstroke, The Terminator (1991)

Bruce calls Dick to get intel on Slade. While Dick knows how dangerous Slade is, he calls him a good man, to which Slade later responds by saying Dick’s wide-eyed and idealistic. (#7)

When Deathstroke gets into crosshairs with the Justice League and has lost much of his powers, the Titans set out to confront him. He encounters Dick and Koriand’r while he tries to escape. Dick tries to stop him and explains to him that if he’s an innocent man, he’ll stand by his side and help him get free of the charges (#14). In fact, the Titans saw what was happening to him on TV and Dick made the decision to help him or take him down depending on whether Joey dying pushed him over the edge (New Titans #89).

Dick and Slade end up working together when Eclipso tries to take over Earth’s heroes. Slade heads to Salvagion to get information about his current situation where he meets Nightwing, who’s been caught spying. Salvagion isn’t the enemy, though, Nightwing is there to retrieve information about Cyborg’s files to heal his friend. The files were lost when Titans Tower got destroyed. 

Dick and Slade fight against enemy mercenaries, who are attacking Salvagion,  and figure something is wrong. Dick then hires Slade and Pat to save the Titans.

By 1993 Dick’s appearances in Deathstroke and The New Titans apruptly ends because he had been taken back by the Bat Office. Editorial was quite strict at the time, demanding him to be written out of New Titans.

Slade in Nightwing (1996)

As Dick tries to apprehend an out of control Man-Bat, Slade shows up to do just that with tranquil darts, shooting Dick too in the process (#17). Dick learns that Slade has been contracted to capture Man-Bat alive and knows Slade doesn’t work cheap, so he and Barbara figure out who Slade has been hired by.

Dick ends up fighting Slade on a boat, treading barbs throughout, and ultimately taking Slade out long enough to escape with Man-Bat (#18).

While Dick’s working at the BPD, Dick one day comes home to find Slade in his apartment (#79). Slade reveals that he’s searched him out because he has a contract in town. Dick and Joey were such good friends, Slade feels it’s fair to tell him. Dick asks for the name of Slade’s target, but Slade hasn’t come to betray all of his cards, he’s simply trying to make a deal, so Dick stays out of his way. Dick considers calling for backup, but there’s no one he wants to put in Slade’s path.

During his police work, Dick sees Slade again and goes after him. They have a short confrontation in which Slade reiterates for him to stay out of the way, but Blüdhaven is Dick’s city, he’ll protect everyone in it. Slade threatens Dick and shoots when Gannon Malloy, Dick’s partner at the BPD, draws a gun at him. Dick saves him but gets shot in the arm (#80).

The Batfamily visits him at the hospital, and Dick asks Cass for help with Deathstroke. She fights Deathstroke and retrieves a disc from him that reveals who the target is (#81).

Dick succeeds to save Amy from Slade’s first attack, fighting Slade until he takes advantage of his injury. Dick tells Amy to run, stating Slade won’t hurt him. Even though Slade implies that he will, Slade doesn’t further fight Dick, going after his target instead. Dick ignores his own safety to attack Slade in close proximity again. It allows Amy to get far enough away for Slade to temporarly stop his hunt and punch Dick unconscious.

Dick remains by Amy’s side as much as he can, stopping Slade from shooting her by dropping bills on him and fighting him long enough to tell him that Dick s overbidding the contract put on Amy.

Slade responds by saying that he always knew that Dick had a heart (#82).

When Blockbuster dies some time later, new villains want to take his spot and as Dick learns Deathstroke will be the hired help, he considers how he can stop them while Slade knows his secret idenity (#110). Dick hunts down Westbrook to get into contact with Slade. By the time Dick returns home, Slade has received his message (which leads to the famous shower panel) and Slade witnesses how Dick has gotten involved with the Blüdhaven mob (#111). Dick tries to convince Slade that he is one of the bad guys now, but Slade claims he doesn’t have an interest in seeing Dick be a “selfloathing mercenary” now that he has to take care of Rose.

Dick wishes Rose good luck after both Grant’s and Joey’s deaths, and Slade ultimately decides through Rose’s input to let Dick train her. Rose tells Dick she was a nanny to Lian (paradoxially because he knows. He was there in Titans (1999)). They save Sophia Tevis and Rose tells her father, asking him if Dick gets to have a private life from them, which Slade replies to with “obviously not” (#112). 

While Rose and Dick investigate another crime, Slade seeks out Amy Rohrbach, telling her he won’t hurt her because she is permanently off his hitlist. He can still kill her family, though. He is searching for Sophia Tevis behind Dick’s back and confronts Dick with her existence and proof that Dick in fact remains a hero (#113). Rose’s training continues, and while Slade does not trust in Dick’s loyalty, he lets him investigate the villains Slade is currently working with (#114). Slade decides to monitor Dick as he sends out Rose and Dick to hunt Superman. Dick has been given a glove through which Slade can monitor and change his heartbeat as well as hear what is going on. Dick uses the fight to show Rose that the ideology of her father is wrong. 

When Dick is later confronted by Slade, who is threatening to kill him, Dick reveals that Slade cannot kill him for two reasons: 1. Slade killing Dick would cause Rose to betray him and 2. that Slade has always failed to kill him and that it never fails to make him mad. Slade lets Dick go, but knows Dick is messing with something too big for him (#115). 

After Slade betrays Dick, Dick plants geiger counters in Slade’s house and makes sure Rose learns that her father has been poisioning her with the Kryptonite in her eye. Slade and Dick are fighting during the conversation. Slade tries to stay in control of the situation, but Rose ultimately believes Dick, especially when Slade tries to silence him even though Rose wishes to hear what Dick has to tell. Dick makes sure Slade knows he’ll get back at him someday for what he did to Blüdhaven (#117).

Titans (1999)

This Titans story takes place before their fallout. Deathstroke is fataly wounded by Tartarus and goes to the Titans for help. Dick reluctantly offers him a temporary place on the team, but not without putting a tracker on him (#10) and reminding Slade continuously that if he fights with the Titans, he must follow their rules (#12).

Deathstroke brings Dick up while fighting Roy, claiming Arsenal is no Nightwing (#22) and Rose later becomes the carekater of Lian but hardly talks with the Titans on panel.

Teen Titans (2003)

When Slade defeats the Teen Titans by manipulating several young heroes, the original Titans aren’t happy about it. Dick tells Slade to leave (#45). When he doesn’t, Dick and he fight while the other Titans take on his crew. During the confrontation, Slade taunts Dick, but Dick still stops Cass from trying to kill him.

When Slade tells the Titans they’ll never be able to trust Rose and Joey, Dick replies that they have proven themselves and will always have a place on the team. Slade gets away, revealing it was all a test to see if his children will have a good life with the Titans (#46).

Infinite Crisis (2005)

After everything that has happened with Grant, Joey and finally Rose, Slade blames Dick for his misfortune (#7). (The page this panel is from was apparently accidentally erased in the digital version of this issue. It can only be found in the digital collected edition and the print editions.)

Batman & Robin (2009)

Talia hires Deathstroke to kill Dick by letting him take control of Damian’s body. She states that Slade has a “long and eventful history” with the “foolish young Batman pretender”. Slade has waited a long time to get rid of Dick per his own words (#11). Slade wants Dick to know who is going to cripple him, so Talia intensifies the neural bond for Slade to be able to speak through Damian. They are working together because they have both lost their children to the hero community because of Dick.

Damian is resisting the control, which makes Slade unable to do much more than to reiterate his desire to kill Dick. Dick electroshocks Damian, knowing Damian can handle it, but Slade likely can’t because of his enhanced senses making him more vulnerable while connected through the neural link. Slade goes into shock, and Dick later searches him out after infiltrating Talia’s base to give him payback. 

Titans (2008)

Deathstroke makes a deal with Mad Hatter, which causes his group of Titans to cause havoc in Arkham Asylum. Dick, then Batman, stops him from taking an inmate with him (#28). Slade calculates whether fighting Dick is worth it and decides to do so. Dick is still furious at Slade for what he did to Damian.

Dick is forced to let Slade get away to save two Arkham guards but pursues him, getting confronted by the new Titans team Deathstroke is leading (#29). Dick and Roy shortly work together. Dick tries to convince him that he is not a villain, but Slade tells Dick Roy is now on his side.

Slade and his Titans are able to leave while Dick deals with the freed inmates off-panel (#30). Ray Palmer point out to Dick that he is taking the confrontation badly, initially only blaming it on the appearance of Slade, who Dick has fought “more times than any [hero]” (#34). Slade reveals to Roy that he chose him for the team to ensure the League could not act in fear of putting him in mortal  danger. Dick gives the order for the JLA to fall back but both Slade and Roy know they’ll still be pursued.

As usual, Dick and Slade share a snarky exchange before the serious fight begins. Dick leaves Slade to Ray while he engages with Roy. The hero Isis stops the fight because they are in her land. Dick makes it known that they should have killed Slade long ago but retreats with the League, giving Roy hope in the process to stand against Slade’s goal (Titans Annual #1).

Conclusion

Fans who enjoy the Dick-Slade dynamic whether at DC or in fandom aren’t erasing Roy to slot in Dick. Slade obsessing over Dick isn’t a new concept. He grew obsessed because their paths crossed many times over the years, and Dick has ties to all three of his children. Slade never felt obsession toward Roy.

If you want your fanon Slade to be obsessed with fanon Roy, and you want to transform canon moments, go ahead, nobody is stopping you, but don’t pretend it’s canon simply to erase Dick.

And before you all come with the Gar argument: Simply because the Gar-Slade and Dick-Slade dynamics came up around the same time does not mean they are the same. Gar and Roy are mostly tied to Slade through one person (Tara and Cheshire). Dick was initially tied to Slade through Grant (as were the other NTT) and then Joey, but their dynamic transcended that to something much more personal and the groundwork was laid by Wolfman himself when he made Slade point out how much Dick's capabilities remind him of his younger self.

The Slade-Dick dynamic is unique because it was allowed to transform and build-upon with each appearance (except for Dixon's). Enemies turning to frenemies then bitter enemies is not a story usually experienced like this in comics. It happens, but it happens as a backstory or under the same writer, not in real time.

[sokoneedsagun]

Let’s talk about “replacement”

If you’ve been in the dc fandom for longer than maybe a week, you’ve probably seen it before. It’s present in fanfics, tumblr posts, role plays, and fanart. On the off chance that you somehow don’t know about it, “replacement” is a sort of nickname often used for Tim Drake by Jason Todd

This post is going to be cut, I’m going to leave the explanation out but there should be two other sections under it as well

Where did it come from?

There are two possible places that the use of it came from

The first is from a Batman comic series from 2002 called “hush” and I’ll spare you most spoilers about the comic but the part of it that’s important to this conversation has to do with Bruce, Jason, Tim, Selina, and Clayface

While catwoman is fighting huntress (Helena Bertanelli) who is currently drugged by poison ivy, Bruce is worried that Helena is going to force Selina to kill her so he tells Tim (who is Robin at the time) to stay where is and look for someone

Before Bruce can tell him who he’s looking for a figure appears behind Tim and says he’s the one they’re looking for, before hitting Tim and calling him “pretender”

When Bruce finds Tim he’s being held at knifepoint by “Jason” who begins lashing out and then fighting Bruce. Eventually he melts in the rain and is shown to be only made out of clay, and the real Jason Todd is still dead.

The important thing about this, is that Jason never called Tim “pretender,” he never held Tim at knifepoint point (if you ever see anything about Jason “slitting Tim’s throat” that’s where it’s from, Tim was fine all he needed was a bandage), all of it was done by Clayface who was mimicking Dick Graysons movements and using what he knew about Jason to manipulate Bruce.

As to where “replacement” specifically came from, the only time I’ve ever heard about its origin was in a TikTok where the person who made the video said it came from a fanfic (which is very likely true), in the comics Jason has never called Tim by that name

Why does the nickname not make sense?

The nickname doesn’t make sense because if anyone would be a pretender or replacement, it’s Jason. Jason Todd is one of the original robins but he isn’t the original Robin. That title will always belong to DIck Grayson.

And in brining up something like this you have to acknowledge the origins of the moniker in the first place. The name “Robin” came from a nickname that Mary Grayson had for her son, I’m fairly sure the original reasoning was because he was born in the early spring. The reason DIck chose to go by Robin is because the name was important to him, it let him feel closer to his late mother, similarly to how the original Robin costume is based on his flying Grayson’s outfit.

But when Dick was 17 or 18 he was shot in the shoulder by the joker, and Bruce tells him that he can’t keep risking his life as Robin, so he fires him. Dick moves out to Blüdhaven, starts working almost solely with the teen titans, and gets a new moniker (nightwing) given to him by Superman.

And then Bruce adopts Jason, and he gives him Dick’s name and uniform, putting a new child in the way of harm. And yes, Jason did make Robin his own but it was not his, he would have no right to put a claim over the name.

Why does any of this matter?

In short, it doesn’t. There is nothing inherently wrong with writing Jason using the term but in my opinion for their relationship, it just dosen’t make sense.

In the comics Jason has a complicated relationship with everyone in the batfamily, he’s grappling with coming back to life and trying to find a place for himself while also working through his own grief and anger

When you read comics though, when they’re together they often work well together and even hang out a few times, there’s one panel where Jason is trying to take tim out to get a drink (underage drinking is bad don’t do it/lh), and they have a fairly normal sibling dynamic with each other

Which is why I don’t understand where the concept of all the hate and resentment came from in the fandom, I’m genuinely curious as to know why it’s so prominent everywhere

[forlornmelody]

I actually like the pining, will-they-won't-they trope, BUT there has to be a payoff. It works really well in a novel. I'd say it's harder to show in a 2-3 hour movie. But it's fucking impossible in a comic book/television show format, cause there's always that risk of the story getting canceled before we can get a satisfying ending.

I think this could have worked, had they not killed off Eddie while Rose was off dismantling super-powered fight clubs/cults/sex-trafficking rings.

Eddie you either need to tell Rose that you have feelings for her OR stop being so jealous of every male in her general orbit. Because you can't totally flounder in your feelings and then be mad that she's not waiting for you. Doesn't work that way.

[doraambrose]

Hey! What do you think about friendship between Roy Harper and Jason Todd? I'm not a big comics nerd, but recently started diving deeper into the dc fandom and reading more comics, I really enjoyed their friendship, but I read a post somewhere another day saying that their friendship doesn't really make sense because they didn't really interact before rhato and have a significant age gap... and even had a fight or something? Just was wondering if you could recommend comics that give more info on their relationship? And what's you personal opinion?

Hello friend! Thanks for the ask.

I have to warn that I have some pretty strong but kind of ignorant feelings about this (I don't know much about Roy harper pre n52)

So comic wise- yes, they're friendship was very random. Pre n52, my very limited knowledge of Roy is that he was a justice league member, did drugs, had a baby with Cheshire named Lian, and was a member of the og teen titans with Dick as Speedy. Jason was robin and then redhood, but the redhood who was definitely more antihero and not basically a batfam member like he is now. Then out of nowhere in RHATO, jason is talking about how Roy is the best friend he could ask for with absolutely no context whatsoever. The Outsiders #46 is the only pre-n52 panel with the two of them together:

In terms of age gap, I'm pretty sure jason and Roy have about the same age gap as jason and dick. But the age gap is something that should bother anyone. I am 20, but most of my friends from work and school are in their mid 20s and even 30s. We get along great and age hasn't been something that has ever impacted our friendship. In terms of a fight, I don't know much about that. They had a falling out at the end of redhood/arsenal, but they seemed fine in RHATO rebirth.

For recommendations, all their comics together are pretty shit tbh. But All RHATO new 52 has them together, but it sucks ass. Redhood/arsenal should be skipped. RHATO rebirth annual 2 is probably the best you're gonna get next to the webtoon.

Okay, my personal opinion, I HATE Roy and jason. I can't stand Roy Harper from what I've seen. And even what I've seen pre-n52, he's kind of a dick.

In New 52, I know his character was stripped from him to make jason look good and that's a whole other discussion, but, he's a fucking idiot. He's selfish, impulsive, and he started listening to Jason's phone. And he was even worse in redhood/arsenal, SO SELFISH and so controlling and he would make decisions, including pimping jason out as a rent-a-hero and spending all their money, without any discussion but couldn't understand why he would be upset about that. He's just an asshole. I have no idea why he and jason would be friends at all. I despise JayRoy. Its so toxic.

Anyway, thanks for the ask!

[elioherondale]

Bette Kane: The original Batgirl and how her history never technically got retconned at all

So this is basically a repost from an old reblog I did but I doubt it's gonna get any traction so I've decided to post it here so more people can actually know about it. (I suggest actually reading what I wrote in the original thing cause there's some parts where I did at OP's comments and it'll look a bit weird here OOC)

let's actually talk about that "continuity dependence" So Bette is regarded by most of the fandom as having only been Batgirl only in Pre-Crisis (some people also think that she just never re-appeared after 1967 but that's not true since she appeared as a key character in the ending three-parter conclusion to the 70s Teen Titans run which set up Titans West). As in, Bette has only ever been Flamebird Post-Crisis and Hawkfire Post-Flashpoint.

Something to explain the whole thing about how Bette became Flamebird, Marv Wolfman decided that the Titans West three-parter was canon and this wrote about it in the Secret Origins 1989 Annual. Except Babs was the first person to become Batgirl Post-Crisis which meant it couldn't be Bette (for some reason), thus the story was rewritten so that instead of being Bat-Girl, a competitive tennis named player Bette Kane joined the Titans West under the mantle of Flamebird (where she got the name, we'll never know). So basically, Post-Crisis Bette was never Batgirl, right? At least, not until that very small duration of time when Morrison brought back Kathy Kane, right?

Below is the following panel from Young Justice Issue #21 where Bette herself confirms she has been Batgirl in the past. (after the New Titans Secret Origins issue tried to make it seem like she'd always been Flamebird the entire time). Take not that she says this whilst fighting alongside the latest Batgirl, Cass Cain

ok, so that only means the between 1985-2000, Bette was never Batgirl. Except that's not true. I especially know it's not true because of a key story that I think a lot of Batgirl stans are familiar with. Say hello to Page 10 of The Killing Joke. Also known as Bette Kane's first Post-Crisis first appearance.

Wait, wait, wait. What are you saying? Are you saying that Bette's history as Batgirl was never erased with Crisis? Are you saying that the argument that Babs, Steph and Cass stans that "oh, but she doesn't count/oh, but she was written out of continuity" isn't true? That's not possible. Oh, you toxic autumn child. It was always possible. It was merely that the spoutings of Babs stans who were angry that she wasn't the first Batgirl were taken as gospel /j (that or just how low her appearances have been throughout her creation)

Now, that just leaves us with one final era to go: Post-Flashpoint. Now unfortunately, I don't have anything from New 52 that implies she was Batgirl and I can't take the whole contracted timeline thing as concrete either so I'll just say this: Bette is in the same boat as Steph and Cass in terms of their backgrounds as Batgirl being erased in the New 52 before reclaiming their histories back.

Now I do have evidence of Bette being Batgirl Post-Flashpoint - Dark Nights Death Metal: The Last Stories Of The DC Multiverse. More specifically, the story "Together" where it shows nearly every single Titans and Teen Titans member (along with some Fearsome Five, Project Defiance and Young Justice and weirdly missing Team Titans). On the bottom left hand corner, you can see cast of the 70s Teen Titans run which includes Bette Kane as Batgirl.

And so there you go. Bette's history as Batgirl was never erased and is a legitimate member of the mantle as its originator.

If you sincerely think she doesn't count as Batgirl, I think you should go and take a deep look in the mirror and see for yourself what that speaks about you.

[autisticrosewilson]

I keep thinking of a WFA style Wilson fam webcomic and I know some of you are already frothing at the mouth but hear me out

Cons:

People will mischaracterize them (they already do this)

People will idealize Slade (they already do this)

New fans will be annoying for a while until they actually read the comics (This is just how fandom works)

Pros:

Grant, Joey, and Respawn get to be alive again

Poppy, Tanya, and Sunny get to exist again

I can add new panels to my Addie Kane folder

Lilian Worth can have a character

Exploration of relationships we never got (Rose and Grant, Grant and Addie, Respawn and Joey, Rose and Poppy, ect.)

Elaboration on relationships I'm already fond of (divorced co-parent SladeAddie, Billy and Rose, JOEY AND GRANT, Addie and Rose can find support in each other)

If it gets popular DC might consider bringing Joey and/or Grant back to main continuity

DC might consider that Slade's family is the best part of him and we can get more dysfunctional Wilson fam focused comics

Talia Al Ghul and Adeline Kane can meet

We can get a canon name for Respawn

There's a very faint chance they'll imply DickJoey/GarJoey/RoyJoey literally any queer relationship with one of the Titans

Stipulations:

Slade and Addie are still divorced

Slade must be bullied regularly, at least once per episode

Grant can have powers but they have to be unstable/lame

Rose can have a missing eye but it can't be caused by Slade

Dark comedy, I like when they're a little dysfunctional and they're still mostly assassins

I'm kind of iffy on Lilian being a prostitute because there's a lot of negative stereotypes about Asian women that plays into but sex work isn't something I'd want to be demonized either and Rose's introduction comic was surprisingly good about that for the time. I don't trust anyone in DC to do it so I just don't want them to bring it up at all

Rose, Lili and Respawn must be drawn with their ethnic features. This is not optional

Joey is still a superhero, he is also still mute

Lili, Talia, and Addie would never fight over Slade none of them want him

Palpable sexual tension between Slade and literally everyone he meets (this should be a running gag) but particularly with Billy (TTG Batman/Gordon style)

Poppy gets to bully them all for being rich (she's who you guys wish Duke was)

[agent371]

Rant post about DC fandom and misogyny! TW: Mentions of r@pe

Okay, so this is about a specific example, but it happens a lot, but I'm just talking about this one, and this one is about Pantha, Nightwing, and Miriage. Read under the cut for the actual post because I hate blocks of text.

So, a lot of Nightwing fans might know about Miriage and that she raped him, some Dan's might also know he got called a slut after that happened. And I understand that does affect him but this isn't about him it's about Pantha the lady who called him a stut because that's what her character got reduced to and if I don't defend her no one will.

So the people who does know Pantha know she did this and its a bad thing and she also asked Nightwing "who was better" witch is horrible but if anybody actually read the comic and cared about the other characters than Nightwing you would know that she had no idea what happened. So I'll do a break down.

Pantha is part of the titans and she is friends with them, she doesn't understand social structure as she was a human experiment shut away from society and doesn't have her memories from before then.

She knows that Nightwing is dating Starfire. Miriage (her friend) tells people that her and Nightwing slept together. Pantha knows cheating is wrong and calls Nightwing a slut because she thinks he cheated because that's what she was told by her friend. She questions and presses him about it because she thinks he is a cheater. Again she doesn't question Miriage because that's her friend why would she lie about that??

But people who didn't read the comic but saw the panel took it out of context, like they always do and reduced her character to that, what doesn't help the fact she was subjected to the "angry black woman" trope. And that's now all she's characterised as an angry woman. Like in the TT cartoon she was their as a big angry woman (they white washed her to shut so I can't say it was angry black woman trope anymore cuz she's white in the cartoon). This all just pisses me off because she has so much more to her character, but she's been subjected to this, and I blame misogyny. If she were a man, more people would talk about it, and they would go into depth in her character.

This now brings me onto Miriage and imma be calling her Miri cuz, it's easier but if she were a man people would defend her. And while what she did was terribly wrong and has no excuses, her character got reduced to "rapist." She's got more to her than that. You know how much people apologise for Slade, a child rapist, yeah, you don't get that for her. And neither should be looked at as good people, but they are both complex characters who are rapists but only she got reduced to it. I bet you people don't even know that she'd been raped before either, because if she were a man, people would. Like I said, Miri is a bad person, and her actions shouldn't be excused, and they aren't all I'm saying is that because of misogyny, her character got reduced to rapist and that's it.

[punnifullife]

I’m loving the reaction from the Dickory fandom with the little Dickory crumbles we got from the recent titans run! 😂 I was not expecting Kory to cradle Dick like that but hey I’ll take whatever crumbles I can!!! 😂 😍

Im not familiar with the next Titans writer but I’m hoping they treats the Titans characters better and develop an inticing story around them. (Shamelessly would like some good Dick & Kory interactions of well 👀…like regardless of DC or Bat office opinion on them as a ship at least acknowledge they still have a relationship with one another…)

Tom Taylor clearly didn’t care much for the Titans comic line and wasted any good story and character development among the team while he was responsible for them literally 💩 on them!They were suppose the have to spotlight after the JL disbanded but literally nothing….

And yes it seems the next writer is planning on having Babs sticking around for his Nightwing run…ughhhh I’m like that one TikTok that said if I’m reading a Nightwing book than I expect Nightwing not Nightwing & Batgirl. Is Dick not allowed to carry a book on his own anymore or interaction with anyone OUTSIDE the Batfam????

yess i was not expecting the cradling either!! and then i think back to an earlier panel of her blocking some debris with her body to protect him

thats so uggghhh grrr bark bark i go crazzzy

but yeah it sucks that neither dick nor babs can like. be a thing on their own. same with kory honestly!! if they want dick and bab to be a thing, then can kory move on too??? not just be a side piece???? can she have character outside of being boobs and hot?? like i love her love for dick, but either get them together or have BOTH of them move on. it's so unfair for her. as much as i draw fanart of them and LOVE them together. i do wish every iteration of her had more agency outside of being x's love interest. i mean GOD. even the tt03 run she always "rOBIN. ROBIN ROBIN". so when we got episodes with her outside of that (like with redstar) it was nice.

[zeroducks-2]

Heyyyy zero.

Do u have any all time favourite dc panels?? Like from whatever comic that’s always suck with you?

(P.s it’s okay if you’re not a big comic reader)

I don´t know if I should consider myself a big comic reader, but I do like comics a lot :) I am in the comics fandom after all.

I debated which panels had to go first and I believe this one wins. It has been ever present in my mind since reading this comic, I don't think a single day passed without me thinking about it at least once Because I Am Normal Like That.

Barry being Eobard's Lightning Rod and bringing him back to life - all the while whispering to him softly and tenderly touching his corpse.

Running Scared by Joshua Williamson and Carmine Di Giandomenico

I have lots of panels that stuck with me since I was itty bitty, possibly most notably the ending of TKJ which I read at the ripe old age of 8 and it rewired my brain chemistry and single-handedly got me into DC comics.

The Killing Joke, by Alan Moore and Brian Bolland

Jumping back to something recent, there's this amazing parallel between Flash and his Reverse in the 2016 Rebirth series (one of the few good things to come out of the reboot)

Lightning Strikes Twice and Running Scared, by Joshua Williamson and Carmine Di Giandomenico

Another of my all time favs also read when I was a kid is the climax of UTRH, when Jason reveals the hows and whys he's doing all of that and suddenly from fearless and ruthless mafia lord wannabe we have a barely adult child grieving the fact that his guardian abandoned him - and will abandon him again.

Under The Red Hood, by Judd Winick, Doug Mahnke, Shane Davis

Then there is this one. No notes. Perfection.

The New Teen Titans: The Judas Contract, by Marv Wolfman and George Perez

Honorable mentions:

Dick being too beautiful for this world (and very dramatic)

Nightwing vs Hush: Prelude to the wedding, by Tim Seeley and Travis Moore

Koriand'r and Donna being best friends

The New Teen Titans: The Judas Contract, by Marv Wolfman and George Perez

Darkseid would look like a librarian compared to Slade's lawyers

Deathstroke: Rebirth by Christopher Priest

I can't exclude Dick and Slade doing their equivalent of flirting. 10/10 immaculate dynamic.

Nightwing 1996, by Devin Grayson

And my favorite bad boys being silly

Nightwing 1996 by Devin Grayson, and Batman: The Button by Tom King & Joshua Williamson

[arellas]

its so sad to me that so much of damian fandom completely disregards his teen titans stories in rebirth entirely just because it ends in his super prison era. there’s so much excellent potential in there esp in the special #1 issue where his initial disenchantment with batman and his loss of faith in the existing justice system is first introduced (contrary to popular belief, damian’s alienation from bruce in rebirth started due to him witnessing the death of an immigrant arab man as a direct result of gang violence and the corruption of the justice system that bruce places so much faith in. it was not started by alfred’s death or by nightwing being shot in the head, though it certainly aided in his further isolation). i really do believe that his team with wallace, crush, roundhouse, and the rest, had some really interesting dynamics - him and wallace especially, due to their shared disenchantment with their adult mentors. paired with the fact that every single member of damian’s team was a person of colour - the first ever iteration of the titans team to be so - i really hoped for it to become more than what it was.

i can understand the kneejerk refusal to support it, considering the most famous panel from this run, arguably, is of damian wearing a suicide bomber vest - not to mention how the rest of the team was flanderised and forgotten about the moment the book ended. but it’s embarrassing, honestly, for dc to have let it end this way, to be so unapologetically racist in their only all-poc teen titans book. and now we’re back to the regular status quo with the older titans - only dc doesn’t seem to care much about doing any good with those characters either, what with all the titans being shoved into being merely a supporting cast for dick and occasionally gar.

[qcomicsy]

I find really weird when people are all upset about the Batfamily as if is this new thing and not an almost 70 year of history. There's literally a comic storyline from the 40's where Batman fight with the child protective services to keep Dicks guard, not only fighting but literally saying and I quote "he's like a son to me".

There's instances since the 80's where Nightwing addressed Bruce as his dad several times and talk how he was raised by him and how he loves Bruce and Bruce loves him (even thought he doesn't say it). There's multiple panels of Batman telling stories to Jason and Dick to sleep, taking them to school, showing up to their PTA reunions, checking on their homework (in this case also for Tim). Even panels (shortly after Jason's death) where Dick was fumbling about Bruce's unhealthy way of grieving and how could he take all of the pictures of his son, Dicks brother. Bruce also back in the late 80's early 90's literally got empty nest syndrome when Dick went to college.

Again we're not talking about some comic run that got out a couple of years ago, we're talking about if being lightly almost 50 years of consistent history. Characters constantly referring to eachother as family and acting as such.

If there's anything new is this sort of disregard and animosity towards robin and any idea of compassion in the Batfamily, or batman himself and the batfamily system, a thing that was a core part of Batman's comic's and Batman's character since the beginning.

Batman was never alone.

Batfamily is not the new fandom thing that it's ruining it's characters. It was always here. It was part of the beginning of DC comics and it helped to stabilize many beloved things we have in the DC cannon today (DC finest. Teen Titans. Titans. Young Justice. Sidekicks in general. Teenage heros. Teenage teams. Harley Quinn's introduction. Joker's stabilized place as one of the most terrifying Batman's rogue and so so much more.).

Maybe, it's not that DC is getting to fandominish, or too "avengers fanfic 2012" maybe you just enjoy a very specific phase/aspect of the DC cannon and kinda blind yourself to another very very real one.

also. I bring the receipts:

[thebestestbat]

dc comics for the ask game lol (feel free to change the “favorite season” question to something else)

ALL DC COMICS (that i've read, which is a much smaller portion) lets go!

favorite male character(s): TOP 5 - grant emerson, dick grayson, roy harper, victor stone, joey wilson

favorite female character(s): TOP 5 - raven, mia dearden, tara markov, cassandra cain, donna troy (sticking kory in here as well i love her.. and for an extra male character i will shout out bart allen, whom i havent read much of but hes baby)

least favorite character(s): i often do not like the way the joker is written in comics (re:ableism). since i have only read him in NTT, i am bored by wally. reading modern comics (e.g. grant morrison....), i get incredibly frustrated at the #politics of #bruce wayne

best looking character(s): so many but i submit these two panels (i also just love george perez's art)

funniest character(s): idk about humor but two characters who are baby and cute and came to mind are bart allen and also kon. i also think that when slade wilson is not abusing children and young adults, he is pathetic enough in his divorcee life to be funny

favorite season(s): TOP 5 RUNS: new teen titans, outsiders (2003), batgirl 2000 so far is great, unfortunately gotta say morrison's dickbats for nostalgia reasons, robin: son of batman

favorite ship(s): TOP 5: dickroy, dickjoey, donnarae, um....halollie JUST from like 2 issues of zero hour, and donnakory

Leave a fandom in my ask box!

[beautyconsumer]

@ramblingwriterfangirl I can't blame you, most people don't know him, even those with years in the fandom.

Genuinely thanking you for giving me a chance to talk about my blorbo.

Grant Wilson is Slade Wilson's (aka Deathstroke) first born.

He debuted long ago in the New Titans comics from de 80's, although his character was merely made to give Slade an excuse to have beef with the Titans.

Ngl the way Grant is written in the comics is very non flattering and poor, people often say he's just like Slade which he's very much not. Although he is arrogant, grumpy, a bit of an asshole. (I love him still)

In fanon he's often depicted as the one who was Red X which is something that I love and influences his characterization to a brighter side. (more rogueish, charming and playful)

In the comics, he takes a faulty serum that promised to give him the same powers as his hero: Deathstroke (who Grant didn't know it was Slade at the time) given to him by HIVE, a terrorist organization that tricked him to get to Slade.

The faulty serum makes him die while he takes a contract with the Titans, that HIVE made him take, (he also had some dumb beef with them because the Titans made his girlfriend dump him??? 80s comics logic) which starts the whole Slade rivalry with the Titans. Which is dumb cause HIVE was at fault here.

In newer apparitions he's shown to have a rocky relationship with Slade, who's shown as a deadbeat father who only shows uo to beat him and Joey (Grant's brother) up. 

Grant is unfortunately a character that is not often explored, but one that I think has so much potential, not to mention how many parallels he shares with Jason. (Grant once dies in a explosion just like Jason for, crying out loud, the panel shows how Slade doesn't make in time even)

He's currently dead in canon, like Joey and Respawn is, all Slade's sons (Respawn is a clone he had with Talia Al Ghul). DC writers love to kill kids for that man ugh

That's all I'll rant for now, anyway he's my baby girl as much as Jason is <3

Roy is the type to call Jason "bro" even if they already fucked

Grant is the type to call Jason "babe" even if they haven't yet