#conversations with other fans

[biblioflyer]

I think one weird point is your analysis is when you cite other eras and cultures having jumbled mythology stories and then say humans are cheesy…. Perhaps humans are diverse and there has been and will be a minority(?) population who are not cheesy and who are tired of ALL that shit. If I were in Ancient Rome I would be bitterly complaining about the fake histories and lack of interest in the exact cut and dry truth and what it tells us instead of entertaining (and obscuring) fictions. Especially when those fictions were being taken as history by many and tended to teach specific ideologies that weren’t even been seen as being driven in by those story-vehicles. I have always hated and will always be tired of cheese. Don’t feel like it’s the position of a lesser mind who needs to change it’s just a different feeling.

This is a fair observation. I get the exhaustion with motifs and devices that feel contrived or played out. This was my experience of mid-2000s “edgy” works like Battlestar Galáctica or Heroes. These are definitely two shows that had me grinding my teeth by their third seasons because I felt like what I was given wasn’t what I signed up for. What I enjoyed at the beginning felt increasingly distant.

I’ve also been incredibly annoyed by certain aspects of how Disney Plus has handled action sequences featuring “minion” type enemies in Star Wars and the way that beskar seems to magnetically attract blaster bolts. It has often felt like a rail shooter on trivial difficulty spliced onto a mostly interesting plot.

So I get it. I wouldn’t be as interested in the weeds of world building if I didn’t think there was something rich to be gained from taking this stuff seriously. I keep referencing “The Drumhead” a lot because I think it really shows what Trek is capable of when it pushes itself. Yet that’s also not all Star Trek is. It mixes and matches itself with a lot of other genres and frequently the outcome is a very Whovian loose approach to continuity and a fair bit of mirth.

Part of looking at Trek as a sort of modern oral storytelling tradition is my own way of accepting the artificiality of it. Trek has been a very meaningful part of my life from my earliest memories and I’m not without some very strong opinions about what is and isn’t “good” Star Trek, they just happen to be more oriented towards themes and the setting’s moral assumptions than whether the fan service is over the top or there are obvious continuity errors or oversights. I recognize these things but I don’t experience them as particularly irksome. Usually.

While I love many properties that take themselves deadly seriously, The Expanse for instance, I just realize it’s only one storytelling style that Trek engages with. After spending many a year griping about canon on Spacebattles and Stardestroyer.net, I got to a place where I found no joy in the hot take. I still love a well crafted head canon to “fix” a blunder, but now I take a look at continuity violations and cheese and ask myself whether it serves a purpose or if there was a better, more consistent and less cringe way to go about things.

Having said that, if I’m not mistaken my next rewatch is what I consider to be the worst episode of Picard season one, maybe the whole series. So I have limits although I make it a point of pride to hold my opinions loosely. I want to reevaluate Picard because I suspect and have found much that appeals to the serious, contemplative fan in me that I think is tragically and frequently lost in the fandom civil wars.

But if I have failed to make it clear, I think Star Trek belongs to both the Memory Alpha contributors and the people who unironically like the Abrams films. I have no beef with serious fans who prefer the crunchy side of sci-fi as long as we can have a mutual understanding that this setting contains multitudes and there’s a very important line between rendering critique of an entertainment property and treating each other unkindly for liking different thing.

When I tease the archetype of the reactionary fan or the person who too literally wants it to be a documentary of the future, this is really directed at a type of person who is not reflective about their own preferences and feels the need to be abusive to other fans or otherwise tend to get rather hyperbolic beyond any sense of proportionality. If that doesn’t sound like you, then we are part of the same rowdy team.

[benevolenterrancy]

~ Extremely Unwilling Magical Protagonists Attempt To Outrun The Plot And Not Fucking Die ~

(@takofukkatsumi this tag is from a while ago but it hasn't left my brain -- L-Space got very weird all of a sudden)

[royalarchivist]

Pac: Take care of Ramon, take care of Richas, ok? See you on the other side, big boy.

Fit: [Laughs] Take it easy, big boy. Take it easy, big boy. Actually, nononono– You can't just say "big boy" and then just expect me to not drag you outta here. [Fit tries to lasso Pac] You're coming with me.

Pac: No, I need to leave!

Fit: You're coming with me. You are not dying today! You are not dying today!

Pac: I need to leave, Fit! I'm sorry, I'm sorry!

Ironmouse: Are you guys like, having sexy time?

Fit: There's homosexual activity going on Mouse, don't worry about us, ok?

Ironmouse: You guys, we don't have time to be gay right now.

[ Full Transcript ↓ ]

-

Pac: I'm just here to say goodbye to you, Fit.

Fit: Goodbye? We're not– we're gonna be fine, we're going to get out of here, don't worry.

Aypierre: Yeah, don't worry!

Pac: I know, but like– I will sleep until the end, you know? I will pass through this moment sleeping, man. I won't be able to be awake for the moment.

Fit: [Laughs] You know, it's– I mean, if that's how you wanna go, but– I mean, that- I mean, isn't that bed kind of like.... I don't know, it's–

Pac: No no, I will be staying on the sofa, you know, I will be staying on the sofa.

Fit: Oh the sofa. Ok, that's a nice sofa! Yeah, that is a pretty nice sofa.

Pac: Yeah, it's a nice sofa right? No, yeah– I'm going to stay on the sofa, you know? So, since I will be going Fit... [Pac starts tossing Fit all his items]

Aypierre: [Not paying attention to their conversation] Is that bigger cell? I don't think it's a bigger- biggest one.

Fit: Oh... Thank you Pac, thank you.

Pac: Everything you need to survive, ok?

Fit: Wow.

Aypierre: Wow.

Pac: And if you need this one also, maybe, who knows? [Throws him more items]

Fit: Ohhh, well hey– just take this to remember me by, ok? [Tosses him a photo of himself – the same one Aypierre was carrying all day yesterday]

Pac: [Laughs] Ok, I will sleep holding the picture you know, like this. You know, I will dream about you, Fit. And I hope this is gonna be good dreams. I see you in the other side. Good luck, my friend.

Fit: The other side... Yeah, you know, yeah, we– we– you know? It's been an honor, Pac. It's been an honor, you know?

Pac: Yeah, for me too, you know? Take care of Ramon, take care of Richas, ok?

Fit: Ok.

Pac: See you on the other side, big boy.

Fit: I will sing your praise– Oh yeah, hey– [Laughs] Take it easy, big boy. Take it easy, big boy. Actually, nononono– You can't just say "big boy" and then just expect me to not drag you outta here. You're coming with me.

Pac: No, I need to leave!

Fit: You're coming with me. You are not dying today! You are not dying today!

Pac: I need to leave, Fit! I'm sorry, I'm sorry!

Fit: Sorry, there's–

Pac: I'm sorry!

Ironmouse: Are you guys like, having sexy time?

Fit: There's homosexual activity going on Mouse, don't worry about us, ok?

Ironmouse: You guys, you guys– we don't have time to be gay right now, come on. There's no time.

Pac: No, there's no time! Oh, goodbye Fit...

Fit: Ok, c'mon, no no no, come on, we got this we got this!

Pac: Goodbye Fit, I'm sorry!

Fit: [Laughs] Oh no...

[sqwdkllr]

i find it so fun when c!phil is only seen through the lens of assisting in his son's suicide and the damage he causes. But then nothing more. Because this is exactly what c!phil does to himself throughout the entire plot.

From that moment forward he only sees himself as his son's murderer that destroys everything he touches and something he must repent for by destroying everything that brought his son to this point including punishing himself. Like even he thinks he's the worst person and if the world isn't giving him a fitting punishment then he will do it to himself to feel better. Losing friends isn't enough, losing his limbs isn't enough, being used repeatedly isn't enough, ruining relationships isn't enough, starving himself isn't enough. And it isn't ever enough ! No amount of repent will ever make him feel better about how he assisted in the death of his son even if he is back from being literally dead !! Because we quite literally see him STILL spiraling despite this.

It isn't until he is told by his goddess that "he has to move on" and that "till be okay" and he finally accepts that at the very end because if he stays the way he is, he will die. Its particularly why i love the ending so much because we never see the end where they escaped to. We are just told in the same way c!phil was that "they will be okay" and we just have to trust that they will be and hopefully move on and begin to heal

c!phil does so many bad things but they all connect back to reasons that make sense for him as a character. He had one son and lost him to his own hands and this action ruined him in ways that puts his war crimes to shame. Yes he is not a perfect angel, but that is what makes him so likable because he also doesn't think so either <3

[logicheartsoul]

Closeups of Sam Wilson & Bucky Barnes Staring at the Other from Deleted Scenes from the trailers of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (2021)

[dammjamboy]

forgot to ever post this here but i had the most fucked dream the other night and i had to draw it

[kinxrd]

just so we're on the same page here, saying "i think buck and tommy are cute, even if they won't last bc buddie endgame" or "i believe in buddie endgame, but bucktommy is cute in the meantime" is backhanded and not the positive support you think it sounds like.

you can find them cute without having to bring up the other ship, and im genuinely sorry that you feel you need to justify it to be accepted in this fandom.

[unbeknownsttomen]

here they are, since we are going to hav some time before the next serial lets do a look back at how far we've come.

one thing i noticed out of all the fanart that grabs the protags and makes them pose as a team because shit just got real is that they never really interact with each other. each one is doing their own thing, so i wanted to explore how would they look like if they actually DID have to interact with each other. who would get along with who, who couldnt be able to stand the other. lots of fun.

[glitter-stained]

I used to dislike Lazarus Pit Madness headcanons but I've seen people say "he doesn't need magic madness he has normal madness" and "why would you need a magical explanation for his behaviour have you people never heard of cptsd" and while I understand the sentiment (and Jason definitely has cptsd) this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say dc has a dangerous habit of demonizing/villanizing mental illness and it has a real impact on the fandom's perception of mental illness. Winnick isn't the worst when it comes to Jason's writers but the fact that he wrote Jason as both a brilliant hypercompetent villain and a sympathetic character that makes you go "oh hey, he has a point..." should not distract you from the fact that no, decapitation is not a common symptom of cptsd.

[workplacecomedian]

TMA fans please correct me if i'm wrong, but- is there ever a time martin outright tells john not to call himself a monster, or something similar? I can't remember a single time it happens canonically, but i know it's a thing folks like to sprinkle into fanart and fanfic. And if he really does never say anything like that...that's either really bittersweet (martin loves john *despite* him being a monster, but if john were to bring it up martin could very well lie to johns face) OR. martin doesn't bring it up because he doesnt want to give up his earned title of monsterfucker

[utilitycaster]

The thing about the argument that the sword makes Laudna uncomfortable is that it's valid if it does, but if you've been in any sort of organization that attempts to have an emotionally open dialogue in making decisions, and especially if you've been in any sort of leadership position within it, you will almost certainly encounter people who suddenly become uncomfortable when, as the meme goes, we are not about them. You encounter people who suddenly express discomfort - which should ideally be brought up early in the conversation since that alone may be a reason to blackball a decision - when multiple other arguments haven't worked (and during the ensuing argument this episode, you can easily watch Orym stick to the same exact story he's been saying for 50+ episodes and that he wants to reclaim this sword and use it to kill Ludinus while Laudna throws out multiple arguments, switching from one to the other as the rest of the party slowly realizes the sword isn't cursed and that this is Delilah's influence). You see this in internet spaces as well; people who do not draw a line between "trigger" and "squick" or "discomfort" and "dislike" even though that line very much exists.

Obviously you do have to still listen, because there are plenty of valid reasons to change a decision because someone involved is uncomfortable; but even a legitimately uncomfortable person does not automatically outweigh the needs of everyone else and you cannot please everyone at once. These decisions must be made contextually because otherwise "I'm uncomfortable with this" becomes a magic Uno Reverse card to hold the group decisions hostage. It's a factor, but ultimately, even if Delilah were in no way involved, if Laudna's the only person uncomfortable and this also means a lot to Orym, the solution is likely going to be either "keep it out of sight" or "give it to a member of the Accord". And yeah, as Imogen points out, if Laudna's genuinely uncomfortable with Orym having a sword with a dark history, absorbing it herself really undercuts that point.

[bigskydreaming]

Imagine if you were a gay or bi man who tried a certain firefighter show because of all the attention it was getting for one of its mains having a later in life bi awakening.....and between seasons you ventured into its fandom in search of material to tide you over til the next one. And you're greeted by a deluge of posts and fics that are just cheerfully homophobic towards one half of the newly out bi character's canon relationship on the basis of 'well he's not the RIGHT gay guy' and pushing the idea that actually its fine to cheat on him because Reasons and he's sexually predacious based on......behind the scenes implications people have divined like they're reading fucking tea leaves.

But don't get it twisted....this fandom, like all fandoms, really cares about representation!

Sorry not sorry, but we really need to kill this idea that fandoms are welcoming and inviting and inherently progressive when they're frequently insular and reductive as fuck. Every single fandom I've been in has had major trends of people doubling down on their own headcanons and fanon interpretations of the characters and willfully enacting trends aimed at running off people who like the 'wrong' characters (usually characters marginalized along one or multiple axes), like the characters in the 'wrong ways' or other bullshit.

Scott is a Bad Friend fics overtaking Teen Wolf fandom was not incidental, it was a FEATURE of the fandom, because the vast majority of that fandom did not want to share its space with anyone who had the nerve to like its main character. Survivors complaining about or criticizing the prevalance of rape fics in a certain fandom has in my experience always led to a reactionary UPTICK in those fics, with gems like 'this character can, will, must be raped' in the tags making it crystal clear that some of these fics exist because how fucking DARE anyone try and push forth a narrative not agreed upon by Fandom Main.

I could cite examples for so many other fandoms, with the commonalities always being that vast majorities in these fandoms are explicitly reacting defensively to being asked to be more mindful of fandom trends revolving around or exacerbating racism, homophobia, transphobia, rape or abuse apologia, ableism, etc....

With the most prolific fucking rallying cry across countless fandoms being "No the fuck we will NOT be doing that," because lolololol.....

Fandom is an inherently progressive space, didn't you hear?

[lightning-chicken]

minor dr s2p2 spoilers below cut

lilly mention?? in ninjago 2024???

new lilly footage???? in ninjago 2024?????

[royalarchivist]

I love the QSMP. Not only has it introduced me to many amazing international creators, it's also introduced me to the French and Brazilian community, who are so sweet, funny, and chaotic in their own unique ways. I love seeing fans sharing their culture and learning from one another, and I myself have learned a lot this past year. I think it's incredible how QSMP brings so many different people together – all of us united in our love and passion for this project and its goals.

But passion can often evoke strong emotions, and these strong emotions aren't always positive.

The past few months, I have seen multiple waves of hate, bad-faith generalizations of communities, and racist remarks directed at fellow fans – especially those who are part of the French / Brazilian community. This kind of behavior is inexcusable, and is in direct conflict with the mission of QSMP, which is to break language barriers and unite communities.

We are a global community with a variety of people from different backgrounds. Miscommunications may occasionally occur because of cultural differences and/or language barriers, but we should use these moments as opportunities to learn and engage with other people rather than assuming the worst about them and starting fights.

Although certain issues can be resolved with communication, sometimes it’s better to block and move on. Avoid spreading negativity or hate, and save yourself the headache of interacting with people who are just looking for someone to argue with.

No matter what community we're a part of or what languages we speak, we're all here to have fun. Please remember to be kind to each other. We have more in common than we have in conflict.

[miss-edith-cushing]

I was SO far away from this banner and the sun was shining straight into my eyes, but I recognised him instantly and passed like 1/3 of the parade to take a picture of him

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

I’ll be writing a critique of the way Blitzø and Stolas’ relationship was handled more at length, but I wanted to stop and take a moment to look at this scene from the new episode, “Full Moon”:

This is the sort of power and control that Stolas has always had over Blitzø.

It does not matter that Stolas has never threatened to take away the Grimoire before, or that they were “friends” as kids, or that he offered Blitzø a few months off, or that he’s been nice to Blitzø in the past, or that Blitzø actually does have feelings for Stolas.

When you are in a situation where you cannot say no at the risk of losing your livelihood, you cannot give true consent.

This is the very BASIS of their relationship. It has always been the basis of their relationship—a quid pro quo relationship where Stolas holds all of the power.

I have seen countless people go over and explain in great detail why the full moon deal was not truly coercive, or a quid pro quo situation, or how it was completely consensual.

And it’s just not. It is sexual coercion where Blitzø cannot give meaningful consent. Because if he refuses Stolas, he’s at risk of losing everything.

I want to clarify that my criticism here isn’t with this writing decision. I’m not trying to say anything along those the lines of “because this fictional character did a bad thing the story is bad and people who like the character support sexual coercion!!” That’s not what I’m saying at all.

I am bringing all of this up because my criticism is not of this writing decision, but because of the framing of the Full Moon deal and of Stolas and Blitzø’s relationship.

The narrative often frames Blitzo as if he is the one who has wronged Stolas by not prioritizing Stolas’ feelings and needs above all else. Or, it frames both Stolas and Blitzo as being equally in the wrong for the conflicts in their “relationship”.

This framing, and the extent to which fans try to justify it as being ANYTHING other than what it actually is—Stolas coercing Blitzø into a relationship where he has no power and is at the risk of losing his livelihood—is baffling to me.

This framing, coupled with the writer’s absolute refusal to ever have Stolas held accountable for his actions (including Stolas still not actually apologizing for the situation he put Blitzø into—he acknowledges that the relationship being transactional is wrong, but does not acknowledge that he was wrong to coerce Blitzø into that relationship. He says “…it isn’t right…it never was”, not “What I did wasn’t right, and never was”) is why I can’t consider St0litz to be just a “complex” or “messy” relationship.

It don’t think it can be, because it’s not a relationship. Not a real one. It’s a transaction, where Stolas treats Blitzø like a sex object. And whether that was the intent or not, Blitzø’s reaction above and saying that he would do anything to keep the grimoire makes it really hard for me to see St0litz in any other light.

As a final note, I’m not saying that you can’t write dark relationships, or have complex and unsympathetic protagonists. You can ship whatever you want! You can have characters that sexually coerce and abuse others, you can write every dark and twisted thing your mind can come up with.

But it’s very clear that Helluva Boss’s writers want to frame Stolas as being the wronged party, and the one who we are supposed to sympathize with—and you just can’t have it both ways.

You can’t act like you’re writing a complex love story between two very complicated and real people, when the relationship that you’re describing is so utterly one-sided and unbalanced.