#cancelations discourse

[puirell]

feels like a good time to bring this back

[derangedfujoshi]

Stalking is a crime, yes that includes your yandere boyfriend

Assault is a crime, yes that includes your whumper/whumpee scenarios

Being part of a mob is a crime, yes that includes your sexy son of a mafia boss

Killing is a crime, yes that includes your blorbo

Zoophilia is a crime, yes that includes you liking Nick Wilde

All your "exceptions" from what is and isn't condemnable in fiction are, in real life, a crime as well. Every dark trope falls in the "it would be a crime to commit this irl" category, it's not just the big age gaps with adult/minor ships and the incest, it's ALL of them. All of them are crimes in the real world, by law. The sentence may vary but you'd still be sent to prison. "But I only like it in fiction!"

So do we.

So do we, so can you get off your high horse and just admit that liking dark themes in fiction, ANY dark theme, does not reflect your moral compass in real life and for the love of everything STOP pretending fake murder is better than fake incest? You sound preposterous.

[andythecorsair]

My favourite artist has been cancelled! What do I do??

I think this is the wrong way to address the issue. Rather than cancellation, we need individually to decide how the scandal, statement, or other controversy colours the work we love, and in what shades. For some people, the metatextual knowledge of the artist will be overwhelming, and they won't be able to continue to consume the work. For others, it will just be another thread, however distasteful, on top of the themes and interpretations that were already present in the artist's art. For others still, it will have no effect at all, as they don't inject that commentary into the text at all. All three are equally valid.

There's a fourth group, of course, which is particularly social media prone, who enjoy feeling morally righteous by ceasing to consume the work of people who've been cancelled. I know because I spent a lot of time thinking that way. If you're one of those, I'm sure you'll be tempted to reply, but I'm not talking to you. So we'll leave door number 4 for now.

What I would suggest is that you go back and consume the art that you love and see how much you read the current scandal into it. That will tell you how much you're still able to enjoy the work for what it was to you a month ago. It might be that falling into those old, comforting flows of language or colour of music allows you to put the real world aside as you fall into it. It might well be that it's time to find some other artist who speaks to you in a similar way. Even if you return to that artist's work some day in the future.

Whatever you choose to do, I'd say take a break from the discourse here and on other social media and make your mind up for yourself. Ultimately art is a conversation between the artist and the consumer. Everything else is just noise.

I've put in the tags the artist I was thinking of when I wrote this, but I really do think it applies to any artist; including ones that I personally find loathsome, such as J. K. Rowling or Morrissey. Your relationship with art is your own, and don't let anyone else shout you down.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

the key to happiness while in a fandom is accept the fact that there will always be people who love the characters you hate, and there will always be people who hate the characters you love. and every ship you think is disgusting has already been shipped by a group of people. and there is absolutely nothing you can do about that. making “call out posts” and engaging in witch hunt campaign/cancel culture will not stop any of these things that you don’t like from keeping happening. the only think it will achieve is make your fandom experience toxic and exhausting for your own mental health. fandom is supposed to be your getaway and your safe space. it never is supposed to be a courtroom or a war zone.

but what if I tell you fandoms can actually be your getaway and your safe space? all you’ve got to do is mute, block, refrain from engaging with things you don’t like and only focus on things you do like. because there will also be people who love the characters you love and people who ship the ships you ship. do engage with these people instead.

that’s it, that’s the key to happiness in a fandom. have fun!

[sarcastic-clapping]

i just know that the gabrielle de lioncourt discourse on this website is going to be fucking catastrophic

[foreignswaggersession]

alright i'm gonna say this as nicely as i can. if you actually think louis ate his nephew you're an idiot not paying attention. that baby wasn't just a baby, it was his NEPHEW, grace's child. once again, i'm asking you to think seriously - if grace left her baby alone with louis, and came back to a dead baby, do you think grace would not hold louis responsible for her baby's death? do you think grace would tell jonah where to find louis, and not "louis killed my child you should avoid him?"

do you think they would even entertain letting louis come to the house anymore to visit grace's other children, day or night?

do you think grace would invite him to their mother's funeral (or any other events that louis missed - like his not-dead nephew's christening, which takes place AFTER ep 2)?

do you think grace would mark his grave like this???

that whole "did you eat the baby" scene is why episode 2 is my least favorite episode of season 1. it goes on for so long, and then people with no brain cells think they're smart by saying "louis's such a crazy liar he would eat a baby" (ok i've stopped being nice - if you think louis ate that baby you have no right to say anything about this show)

also, we don't see the son at the twins' birthday party because he's still a baby/toddler and probably asleep. he didn't eat his fucking nephew omg be serious.

[perseidlion]

Dear Dead Boy Detectives fandom: I know you're angry and sad about cancellation. So am I. But I am pleading with you not to take it out on the other shows that Netflix has renewed.

The people involved in these other shows are not the ones to blame for DBD not getting a S2, and neither are their fans. It was not their decision. It was not within their power. They're just trying to make their own show. Plus, they also have a sword hanging over their heads.

Netflix's bar to be able to keep existing is so impossibly high that no show except maybe Wednesday and Bridgerton are safe. Honestly, Wednesday might be on the chopping block too if it doesn't do insane numbers for S2. Sabrina was once a big hit for them, but that went downhill fast.

The common enemy is unrealistic expectations, homogeneity and corporate greed, not another show that got renewed. Yes, Netflix is renewing "safe" (aka straight, mass-appeal shows) more than others. But those straight, mass-appeal shows should be allowed to exist alongside queer, subversive, niche shows. It shouldn't be either-or.

In fact, in an ideal world, those mass appeal shows should be bringing in the $$ that allows the more niche shows to thrive. Sure, point out that Netflix is axing queer shows more than straight ones! That's so important to point out and very damning. But there's a way to do that without attacking the shows themself. The criticism is with Netflix and their cowardice, not the fact that these other shows exist.

Plus! Not all the shows Netflix are hyping right now are mass appeal and straight. KAOS is a very subversive, highly original, well-acted and crucially, a VERY queer show. So it's disappointing to see the DBD fandom coming at KAOS when it's just as queer, if not more queer than DBD (by sheer volume of characters, which admittedly isn't the most fair metric considering KAOS is a large ensemble show.) Its queerness manifests in the fabric of the world and in a variety of gender identities, ages and body types.

I know our hearts are hurting, but I think it's important to remember who the bad guys are. These other shows are like the coworker who got lucky enough to not get laid off, or the new hire walking into the office after a round of layoffs. They're not to blame, the bosses are. They're just trying to make a living.

And listen, I'm not saying you have to support these other shows. If you want to vote with your feet and not watch or support any other Netflix shows, that's your prerogative and I respect that. But be kind to the other shows and keep the anger focused on Netflix HQ: aka the people responsible for cancellations.

Imagine if DBD had gotten S2. How would we feel if we were trying to be excited only to have the fans of a different cancelled show say our thing doesn't deserve to exist, or that it's less queer, or less worthy than the show that got cancelled? It'd suck, right?

We want to build bridges with the other fandoms. We want solidarity. Fandoms attacking each other only lets the real bad guys off the hook.

[bugflies00]

usually this stuff is just funny/ridiculous but i just find that level of disingenuous concern (calling a guy who did a month long charity project for queer kids homophobic or profiting off his queer audience after he spends fucking ages talking about how much he loves his queer fans and jokes about his "lesbian fathers" of fans and has been very fucking open about being supportive of the community for YEARS) completely disgusting idk. work on yourselves or something . I hope tommyinnit becomes actually homophobic and says the f slur on stream

[curiositysavesthecat]

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[420technoblazeit]

i keep seeing people make the argument that hobie's WAY older than gwen and pavitr despite the fact that they're all really close friends in the movie. and i get that there's no canon established age for him in atsv yet but let's be honest. it's because he's black and miles is 'less threatening' than him isn't it

[tuurverheydepoetryandprose]

Thinking more about the Somerton situation, I fear this might have some seriously bad consequences for online discourse.

Already there’s plenty of people with a one strike and you’re out mentality to any kind of mistake or misdeed. No room for making amends, learning and growing, explaining what happened, working to be better etc. Many just unconditionally demand people disappear forever.

It’s kind of understandable if you’ve been hurt and cheated a lot, but it can lead to an unreasonably stringent view of fallibility and forgiveness.

And now we have this fairly high profile example of someone just blatantly deceiving his audience, smearing his victims and accusers, faking remorse while being totally averse to understanding what’s he done, why it was harmful and why he got backlash, shamelessly trying to deceive his way back into the spotlight. Just no empathy, no remorse, no self-awareness, just pure egotism and opportunism. Grifterdom personified.

I can imagine many people will learn exactly the wrong lessons: doubling down on their unforgivingly high standards, raising suspicions about every apology, seeing all online expressions of remorse as insincere, equivocating every ‘influencer does bad thing’ situation with this, and maybe even using this to further enforce the stigma against people suffering from suicidal ideation.

I hope we’re better than this, but I have my doubts. After all, many people uncritically jumped on the bandwagon of blaming Hbomb when the suicide note still seemed real.

Let’s be vigilant, let’s make sure James Somerton cannot do this again, but also let’s not tar everyone else with the same brush.

[st-just]

Another problem with "bi means attracted to all women and a handful of men" is that it feeds into the cultural tropes of "women are objectively more sexually desirable than men" (which connects to some truly toxic ways our society treats women)

re:

Y'know there absolutely is a near-omnipresent cultural script where women are The Sexy Gender and being noticeably distracted/vocal about how sexy a guy is in public/mixed company is, like, Weird by comparison but also online this has definitely become a lot less salient to me since I started spending all my free time on the fujoshi and erotic cannibalism website.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

what people think pro ship means: dangerous people who want to harm children in real life and/or think taboo subjects in real life are justified

what pro ship actually is about: the belief that people are allowed to enjoy fictional thing however they want, as long as it's fictional and no one in real life gets harmed or harassed in any way, and as long as they tag their trigger warnings properly.

most pro ship folks I've come across are just "hey, you like this fucked up thing that is fictional? okay, cool. you do you, man. I myself don't even like this thing that you like, but hey, it's not real. and I trust that you know the difference between fiction and reality, so you do you. if it ever gets too much for me, I will just block or mute you and move on with my life, but that doesn't mean I think you're a horrible person in real life because of the fictional thing you like, it just means I'd rather not see or engage with this thing that can make me uncomfortable. I still want you to have fun doing what you love, and I still think you're cool as fuck. love and respect, dude"

meanwhile most anti ship I've seen are like "omg you like this fictional thing where fictional children are harmed??! Red Flag Red Flag. put this gross piece of shit behind bars immediately!!!"

and I'm just ????? I don't normally engage in fandom wars, but I think, as long as you don't harass anyone in real life and as long as no one in real life is in danger or is harmed, how you enjoy fictional things is none of my business. and I'm not gonna make any "call out post" where I encourage my followers to harass you because you like fucked up fictional things that I personally don't like or believe is wrong either.

I mean, from personal experience, I was exposed against my will to thing I didn't want to see from anti's screenshot of fanart or fanfic where they encourage their followers to harass this person whose fanart or fanfic, that was screenshot and spread by them, was originally tagged properly with all the trigger warnings so that people who didn't want to see it wouldn't get exposed to it. until anti screenshot it and flaunted it around in the name of being morally superior while also, at the same time, advocated for the witch hunt against someone who just wanted to mind their own business. so... the irony. lol

fandoms used to be more peaceful before Fandom Police starts their witch hunting, but it's a good thing we can just block these people and keep on enjoying our blorbos however we want to enjoy them.

and I'll always encourage every artist to write whatever they want, draw whatever they want. don't let people who think they're "morally superior" tell you you can't make art this way or that way. my best advice would be to block and ignore and keep on creating what you want. they may be loud, but at the end of the day they're just noises and they're not worth your attention x

[thegreatyin]

it's so tragic that fallen london doesn't have cellphones. the jovial contrarian would've done numbers on twitter

[comradeboyhalo]

sorry im just rambling rn but sometimes i think back on how so much bbh content in dsmp was borderline unwatchable purely bc it was the same recycled jokes of him saying language. or getting mad. and then the dsmp after-hours hit with puffy and foolish where they actually let him banter and it was so entertaining and so funny to listen to. and guess what? they got him to say more innuendos this way too.

its just. the weirdly specific pain of being in the dsmp fandom and knowing your streamer is actually funny but none of the bigger ccs were actually doing anything with it. painful. PAINFUL. qsmp fandom may have treated him worse (imo) but at least they actually saw his personality !!!