#c!dream apologist neg

[hopalongfairywren]

remember when c!dream apologists were claiming c!dream was woman coded and that’s why people were mistreating him i remembered that just now and it made me very argue the way that trivialised the misogyny towards female characters in this hell fandom.

The way c!Dream apologists saw a grown ass man stalking a woman. (That's the basis for the c!Puffy c!Dream family dynamic. Puffy laughing uncomfortably and calling him 'duckling as a joke.') and decided to parentify her. And then called her an evil bitch for not liking him when she watched him threaten two minors live?

[cellberry]

omigod omigod omigod

[hopalongfairywrens]

“C!dream is morally grey in the grand scheme of things” no the fuck he isn’t lmao. The dude literally tortured two people for not even science. He torments a teenager too the point of suicide. He levels an entire city. He doesn’t feel remorse for any of that and considers it a necessary step in his vague goal for a serverwide cult of personality utopia! You can like morally abhorrent characters it’s okay. He doesn’t become a magically morally grey guy when put next to an omnicidal dictator either, because one doesn’t negate the severity of the other’s crimes and I feel like a bunch of people forget in this case it’s child abuse, stalking, abduction and murder.

[barzfrommarz]

BOOOOO GET OFF THE STAGE 🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅

second pic was the post right under the first screenshot. How can you be this slow why the fuck do you think he switched up on c!dream???

[proudfreakmetarusonikku]

I’m sorry this is so fucking funny ““we had to make up half this guys characterisation”” is NOT the flex you think it is. c!dream has plenty of characterisation in canon too including sympathetic shit you’re just genuinely a bad analyst if you think you needed to dig to the depths of the earth to get a sliver of characterisation you’re shooting yourself in the foot along with ur whole community.

[jamwithme-o]

Im kinda thinking about how dumb are people to blame ctommy for what happened with dream last stream as if dream didnt plan on killing everyone regardless. GIRLIES THAT WAS WHY HE WAS DOING EXPERIMENTS, HE WASNT JUST BEING GOOFY HE WAS SCHEMING, IDK HOW MANY TIMES WE CAN WATCH CDREAM BLATANTLY PLOT TO DESTROY THE SERVER BEFORE WE AGREE HES THE BAD GUY.

[absurdist-shitpost]

Seen a lot of arguments about whether or not it was in character for c!Tommy to attempt to reach out to c!Dream in the finale, but not a lot about how OOC it felt for Dream to respond the way he did?

Like. I’m upset about how Tommy’s character was handled for a variety of reasons but judging the stream purely by ‘do the characters act in ways that feel realistic based on how they’ve previously been characterized’ I actually think c!Dream was done far dirtier.

C!Dream is genuinely one of my favorite characters. He makes for a terrifying villain while also feeling deeply human, (and I really don’t think we needed a sympathetic flashback to further humanize him, but that’s a different topic) he’s cruel and controlling and deeply self-centered, but at the same time he craves connection to others while refusing to admit to feeling any sort of attachment out of fear.

C!Dream has always struck me as a character Deeply Afraid of vulnerability. Deeply afraid of Losing Control. I’ve seen posts floating around about how Dream’s planning relies much more heavily on improvisation and luck then he admits, and this is for a reason! Dream doesn’t want to say that he messed up, or that something went wrong, instead he’d much rather say that he was sabotaged (usually by c!tommy) or that This Was Totally the Plan All Along Guys.

It makes perfect sense for Dream to act like this! He was always a competitive and prideful person, even before Shit Got Bad, so when he (and the server more broadly) started taking things farther and farther, committing acts that he likely would have considered Too Far in the past, he responded by by digging his heals in. Because This Was Totally the Plan All Along Guys. If nothing else, c!Dream is a goddamn master of Committing To The Bit.

It’s what gives his character it’s tragedy. Because he would truly be happier just hanging out with his friends. But in the end, /he’s/ the one who cuts them off, not because of anything Tommy or anyone else did, but because he was scared that keeping them around would make him vulnerable. He becomes so blinded by his stubborn attachment (heh) to his own plans and power and this idea of godhood that not only does he ruin the lives of those around him, he ruins his /own/ life too.

And you’re telling me. That Dream, the same Dream that has tortured and abused multiple people, who has gotten /himself/ tortured and jailed, who cut off his friendships, ruined his own reputation on purpose and literally /died/ multiple times all in service of a plan that /he could’ve abandoned himself at multiple points/, That Dream, suddenly decides he gonna call it all off after a 15 minute conversation? Really?

And to be clear, I’m not saying that it feels unrealistic for Dream to regret his actions. In fact, I think it’s likely a part of him has regretted them since he started doing them. But Dream’s reaction to things going wrong has always been to either deflect or dig his heels in. To convince himself that it’s worth it. And above all, to never show Anyone that regret, because that would mean being vulnerable.

C!Tommy ‘understanding his motives’ wouldn’t make c!Dream happy or willing to listen to him, in fact it feels more in line with his character for him to be deeply angered and disturbed by this. There’s no way I can believe that c!Dream would want anyone, much less c!tommy, seeing what he likely considers to be deeply personal memories. C!Dream may want to be understood deep down, but that desire is overwhelmed by his crushing fear of being known. It’s why he cut off c!george and c!Sapnap in the first place, and why he’s dodgy in acknowledging c!Punz as more than just an ally. To c!dream, being understood means being hurt. It means giving someone else control over you.

And maybe c!Dream could overcome this, could realize he was only hurting himself and everyone around him, could realize that /this wasn’t really what he wanted/ but not in 15 goddamn minutes. Not when, from his perspective, his plan had finally come to fruition and he was in a position to obtain Goddamn Immortality. The Only Reason c!Dream was written to have such a quick turn around was because cc!Dream wanted to soften his character at the last second, despite his entire arc before this being built on him essentially sunk-cost-fallacying himself into self destructing and dragging everyone down with him.

Justice for c!Dream. In my heart of hearts you died drunk on your own hubris attempting to become an immortal death god.

[vulto-cor-de-rosa]

GET THEIR ASS TOMMY!!

[autistic-fandom-trash]

Well I am being petty and I’m not ashamed of it. L c!Dre@m apologists.

not to be petty but remember when people said with one hundred percent confidence c!dream wouldn’t got after c!tommy when he broke out... and then c!dream broke out and instantly went for c!tommy... ya'll...

[sunlitmcgee]

it's valentines day and I gotta work a dinner rush shift, so I choose Violence

[possiblyawesometmblr]

i genuinely really love c!dream apologists. y'all fascinate me. just saw a post about how cute it was that punz and dream went and got sandwiches together and i just. imagine if your takeaway from everything that happened today was that two psychopaths getting sandwiches while they wait for their two torture victims to choose which one of them has to die was adorable. this is not /neg in literally any way i am so /pos right now. what is going on in those funky little minds of yours you are so intriguing

[cdroloisms]

also, (sorry to soapbox, i promise this will be the last of it), as an added note to the little conversation from yesterday about dreblr--i have to say that there's been ,,, uh, a slightly concerning amount of "us versus them" rhetoric especially about c!tommy apologists recently, as far as i've observed. and look, i get how the fandom's history plays into this, but dreblr isn't some separate special "better" version of the dsmp fandom. we're just dsmp fans who tend positive towards c!dream, which is a valid way of enjoying the story, but you know, so's hating c!dream's guts, lmao. people aren't unable to have valid opinions on the story or on c!dream just because they're negative about him and positive about c!tommy, which is like, literally just normal too, lmao, c!tommy is the generally good-aligned character we follow for most of the story and c!dream is the generally evil-aligned character that hurts him? being an analyst in dreblr doesn't automatically equal being "more correct" just because it's dreblr, and dismissing others' opinions just because they're a c!tommy apologist or whoever apologist isn't exactly a helpful way of approaching meta, either.

obviously no one is obligated to interact with anyone in this fandom that they don't want to interact with--we're here to have fun, it's not actually a professional field of analysis and debate. that being said, there is nothing about liking c!dream that is inherently superior to other dsmp fans. i know i've made a lot of general posts about dreblr versus "the greater fandom" which probably haven't helped with this feeling -- they're largely generalizations based on my experience in this fandom, and i don't want to come off as meaning that bad analysis is something that is Only found outside of dreblr (i've definitely been guilty of shit analysis more than a few times, lol) or that there's nothing that the rest of the fandom outside of c!dream apologist spaces has to offer. when it comes to individual enjoyment of the fandom and the characters, the point im making isn't that everyone has to do outreach to communicate with a c!tommy apologist or anything, lmao -- just that, you know, the general shady comments about how much better we are at analysis than those darn c!tommy apologists when they're not really relevant don't reeeeeally have to be as common as they are.

[hopalongfairywren]

This is 'every fucking take on c!puffy' ersasure

Todays Sequel to worst dsmp takes I've seen over the years and recently.

I realize an all of the above option was highly requested but before I ran out of poll slots and also I don't want everyone to just vote all bc thats no fun so sorry no all above 😭.

[cearthduo]

I’m so glad to have someone who actually acknowledge C!Dream more than just Tommy’s abuser because to me while that is a part of his character I always feel like just focusing on that and Tommy and dream as a abuser and victim is not a disservice for Dream character, but also Tommy’s character. like Tommy is more than just a victim kind of found it ironic that the people who always use exiles as an example end up kind of accidentally dehumanized Tommy in a way. I got this entire essay in my head about how the fandom is so overprotective of Tommy to the point that they would excuse every single action that he did that even in universe is presented as a bad thing, but that’s a story for another day 

I agree wholeheartedly. Tommy apologists like to pretend they're the "good people" when really all they're pushing is the rhetoric that a victim will never be more than their abuse. Everything tommy has ever done is just pointed back to "he was abused." Even if you talk about something as early as L'manberg it'll always be "he was a kid, he went through a lot" To a lot of these people, Tommy is nothing more than his trauma. He's hurt, a wounded animal, he can't do any better. And it's such a disservice to Tommy's character when people infantilize him like that.

I think the discs are a good example of that last point. I remember seeing a post recently explaining away Tommy's unhealthy obsession with the discs saying "it reminds him of the early days" or something. And I can not even BEGIN to dissect how wrong that is. Tommy's dependence on and obsession with the discs is presented as a BAD THING narratively since the beginning. I mean. before Tommy went through anything he was already putting the value of these discs he found above the happiness of Tubbo. He kills Tubbo's pet bee and when he asks for the discs in return, do you know what Tommy does? He burns down Tubbo's house. And it's like, how can you present Tommy's obsession with the discs as a cute normal thing when it's always shown as being a negative aspect of his character. He gets actual character development during the staged disc finale and the actual finale when he's able to finally put Tubbo's life above the discs. And these people, who are supposed to be so well versed in the character, can't seem to grasp that small of a character trait because they haveeee to infantilize Tommy because he's a victim. I would love love love to see your essay btw! I love seeing people's takes on this topic because it's rare people ever talk about it and it's something i'm kinda passionate about. So if you ever jot down your thoughts on here, know i will reblog tf out of it LMAO.

[maruteru]

Hi there! You found my blog!! ☆

》 Hi, I'm maruteru, but you can call me maru or banana (my nickname friends gave me lol)

》 🇻🇳 | minor

》 I go by both she/her and he/him, but I don't mind they/them either

》 My art requests are always open, so feel free to leave one (I might take a while to draw them tho)

》 I'm a c!Dream apologist, my baby did a lot of bad things, but he is still my baby

》 Dnf is not my cup of tea. There will be no dnf neg except for some I state that I don't like the ship, so don't worry! But I will not draw any dnf, so if you give me dnf as an art request, I will delete it. Sorry about that.

My tags ☆

》 maruteru's art for my drawings

》 maruteru's ask for my asks and art requests

That's basically it. Thanks for reading and have a nice one ☆

[bleue-flora]

ok but why are there so many c!tommy apologists here im not complaining just confused

Good question… obviously I don’t know for sure but my theory is that some people love c!Tommy and c!Dream, which I imagine would be hard to feel welcome in either part of the fandom since it seems in general people are either talking shit about c!Tommy or c!Dream. As I tend to try and just state facts, ask questions or point out things that are just interesting and try to be respectful when stating my opinion, perhaps they feel safe here or appreciate that point of view. Again I’m not sure, but I do strive to simply stick to the lore and what’s it might be saying, or the reasoning in general for things without being particularly negative against a particular character. I also haven’t used the Tommy neg tag, as I feel like I haven’t been bashing Tommy as much as just laying out the facts and possible motivation or reasons for actions without getting into to the discussion of who’s good or bad or better or worse or deserve or whatever, trying to just look at what the evidence is to support obsession and whether there was some genuine bonding in Exile.

I mean I don’t know, just a possible reason, and I may or may not be successful in my goal of trying to be respectful. But I try and I guess at the end of the day, I’m here to just discuss my obsession and think about stuff and possibilities and things we may not have noticed before, and what facts perhaps we have lost along the way. :)