bleue-flora

[bleue-flora]

lol actually just noticed that Technoblade full on visits and hangs out with Tommy on that first day (not long after Awesamdude’s stop by) [vod], so Badboyhalo actually isn’t his first visitor at all. But still, it is interesting to compare prison visiting to Exile, so I thought while I’m at it, why not compare lists of all the people who visited (note: this does not include hallucinations, dreams or people just talked to through chat, vc or outside of residential area):

People who visited Tommy in Exile:

Dream (overseer)

Ghostbur

Awesamdude

Technoblade

Badboyhalo

Sapnap

Ranboo

Fundy

Lazarbeam

Connor

Philza

Jack

Mexican Dream

Mamacita

Drista

Quackity

Tubbo *Tommy not present*

People who visited Dream in prison:

Awesamdude (warden)

Tommyinnit

Enderboo *off screen*

Badboyhalo (+ guard)

Sapnap

Antfrost *off screen* (guard)

Quackity (torturer)

Ghostbur

Techno

As you can see, Tommy had 16 people visit, some of which (Dream, Ghostbur, Techno, Ranboo, Fundy) visited multiple times, or 15 if you discount Dream for his position as overseer and enforcer. On the other hand, Dream had 9 visitors, some of which (Sam, Tommy, Quackity, Antfrost, Bad, Ranboo?) visited multiple times and some who (Tommy, Technoblade) stayed temporarily, or 7 if you discount Sam and Antfrost for their employement position. This means that Dream had roughly 50% less visitors than Tommy, despite his confinement lasting over 2800% longer than Exile (or said differently, Tommy had 2x as many visitors as Dream despite Dream’s confinement lasting 28x longer than Exile)… and that’s just hard data, I’m not even talking about the fact that while many of Tommy’s visitors brought gifts and assisted him in whatever he was doing, Dream’s visitors brought at best basic human decency and worst a netherite axe and a couple pairs of shears. Oh and don’t even get me started on the fact that Sam gave Tommy pumpkin pies but failed to give Dream a proper amount of potatoes in prison……

Ok, anyone else find it interesting that c!Badboyhalo is the first one to visit c!Tommy in Exile:

Like technically that’s not even true since c!Awesamdude came the day before and gave c!Tommy food, but still… like is it just me or is it giving major prison parallelism vibes?…

[bleue-flora]

[context: <> <>]

Ohhh… I get it

“My time with Tubbo has came and gone. He had weeks to visit me. He chose—he chose against it.” [clip]

Okay, so he does say “weeks” in lore huh?… interesting…

But here’s the think, should he be trusted? Not to say Tommy is a liar or whatever, but is he a reliable source on reality?

After all, I think we can all agree he is not mentally stable, so has it been weeks or has Tommy just spiraled so far that he thinks it’s been weeks, because it’s felt like it’s been weeks?…

Take for example the rest of his statement about Tubbo not visiting. This is not the first time he says this, and yet when he confronts Tubbo for the first time after Exile, Tubbo actually corrects him [clip]:

Tommy: “You didn’t come and visit—Techno, he didn’t come and visit me once. Did he? Tubbo: “I actually did. Twice. And you were—“ Tommy: “Well, I was never there and you—you never—and Dream told me you didn’t. Even though I know that… You didn’t come to visit me, alright. So don’t…” Tubbo: “I did.” Tommy: “Don’t give me this—” Tubbo: “Twice.” Tommy: “St—stop lying, man!” Tubbo: “And I—I was actually—” Tommy: “Stop it, man!” Tubbo: “Even told to leave, in fact, many times.”

Tommy refuses to accept this though leaving the conversation with the same mindset [clip], even though Dream actually did tell Tommy before about Tubbo visiting [clip], which he was not lying about [vid]. And we know that Tubbo visited after Tommy left and thought he jumped from the tower. So technically, even with keeping Tubbo’s other appearances in Exile as hallucinations, Tubbo did in fact visit twice. So Tommy was wrong, not that this should surprise us because he talks about how no one visits many times despite it also not being true.

Just to be clear, I don’t think he’s trying to be malicious in lying and stuff, but I think he felt betrayed and abandoned, and he never saw Tubbo, so “you didn’t come to visit me” became his truth, even if that technically isn’t factually correct. In the same way, that he felt alone and abandoned by the server so he felt like no one visited him, when this isn’t true. Which I think makes sense to apply to time as well, with Tommy feeling like he’s been exiled for ages even when that’s not true. Tommy’s words are an extension of how he feels not of the actual concrete facts, which is both the explanation that makes the most sense and a characteristic that we see from Tommy on more than one occasion.

[bleue-flora]

Wait if exile was 5yrs/months how long was dream in pandora??

I believe that Dream was in prison for a year. I mean it’s a pretty agreed upon fact and I’m pretty sure that some cc’s have confirmed that as well. I think when it comes to Exile, it’s pretty wonky. I think because we don’t have a full idea of when it happened. It’s just something I’ve heard people debate a bunch about. Obviously, I’m not trying to spread false information but this is just a lot what I’ve heard.

Exile was pretty different than Pandora’s Vault simply because they’re only two people mainly involved. Obviously there are more with New L’Manberg and everything but involved in main Exile for most of the time was Tommy and Dream. With Pandora’s Vault there was multiple people involved in the making and planning of it. So I think that’s why there’s a more concrete date. Obviously, you can look at it as however long cc!Tommy streamed it. I think that’s pretty fair view too. Also, Pandora’s Vault time is all cc time like IRL time. But still, I do believe this to be the canon time since I haven’t heard anything otherwise.

Plus from what I’ve seen cc!Tommy and cc!Dream never really confirmed a canon date for Exile. Which leads to basically only speculation and fan theories. Not that those are bad but personally, it would be nice to have an actual answer from somebody, but I know that we’re probably never gonna get that so settle for what we got now. Obviously five months is very different from five years, but one year is obviously one year. It’s harder to do a more canon timeline for Exile with everything that happened during that time if we don’t even have a concrete anything really time wise I mean.

Again, if anyone has any other information I would genuinely want to know for that would make my analysis writing and everything else for Exile in specific much easier.

[bleue-flora]

Me trying to figure out how Exile fit weeks, months, or years into 11 days of December:

So it’s the month of Christmas at the start on December 4th…

but then it’s still the month of Christmas after when he’s with Techno and they visit the dsmp main area…… how does that work?…

Are we really saying that it makes more sense for Exile to be some black hole of time before Christmas in the month of December, rather than Tommy, in his mental spiral, just confusing time in Exile?… Come on now, be reasonable. You can’t tell me that this makes sense. Are we that bad at math that between December 4th and December 25th we’re gonna fit multiple months and years?! Heh?

[bleue-flora]

Why do I feel like based on the security reset card and the secret books Dream gave Techno in prison, that the Revival Books were literally just books titled Revival Book that said, “revival book” inside….

[bleue-flora]

Oh for sure, great minds think alike. ;) I’ve actually talked about the same thing [post] <3 and to be honest can’t get the image out of my head of Tommy sitting in the snow just staring at Techno’s house for hours…

Having said that, I don’t know if we can say for certain that Michael and Tubbo’s husband are gone or anything because we only really know that he’s selling bees and Tommy gets to see him sometimes. We know that people left and Tubbo’s still around and that’s about it so you know whether or not he has moved on or is no longer married or has healed or anything, I feel like we just don’t know enough info (which I think was likely on purpose because ccTommy and ccJack didn’t want to define Tubbo’s lore because that’s for ccTubbo to do) to really determine anything besides hypotheticals or making up our own endings. Really all we have is this:

As for Jack, we do have more information about what he’s been doing which is that for the past years he has been gambling for his own thrill in order to “win big” even if he already has access to all the money anyways.

Suffice to say, while he says he’s happy, he’s been gambling for years alone so… ya know that can’t be the healthiest lifestyle (gives Percy Jackson Lotus Casino vibes tbh). However, he does mention how he’s changed and likes the person he is now much better than the guy he was back in the day so that’s interesting.

Does that actually mean it’s a happier or better ending for Jack? Not really in my opinion as there is still no resolution, at least the other finale leaves it open for you to theorize if he got validation for his pain and what he strived for. As far as healing goes, he didn’t walk the path to Exile with Tommy like you mentioned shows he has grown because that was the same path he died on [vid]. Instead they actually took the path to Techno’s [pic below vs pic from Jailbreak]

Even so, I do think the fact that he doesn’t even mention it or bring up how Tommy killed him or wronged him in any way in that entire conversation, instead asking at the end “are you happy?” shows to me that he has healed and moved on, even if not in the way you thought.

No longer does he want to kill Tommy, but he wants Tommy to be happy, that’s quite the contrast and shows true character growth. On the other hand, Tommy in that conversation manages to sneak in jabs and comments about how Jack blew up his hotel more than once.

Clearly, showing that he is still holding on tightly to the past. He still hasn’t forgiven Jack or let it go, even when it’s been years, and as Jack highlights - he technically tried to blow up everything with the nukes anyways.

This is one of the things that to me highlights how Tommy is not in a progressing mental state and details a dire picture. One of the other things, I think is perhaps the most notable when looking at whether he is healing is, as you said - being alone is no way to heal. Furthermore, I think a part of Tommy’s healing requires people. Sure Exile and him losing canon lives took a physical toll, but more than that, it took a mental toll. One that left him isolated towards the end where he remains now. And this mental toll includes trauma yes, but also his relationship with Wilbur or Tubbo weren’t exactly healthy either (and those are the more positive ones he had), something that certainly helps to paint a picture of his poor relationships with people as a whole. So to me, yes as you said, his path to healing needs to be supported by human contact and people to help him, but also I think part of the healing itself needs to be through actually forming healthier relationships with people and/or fixing old ones.

Plus, despite what he says, we already know being alone isn’t healthy for him. We’ve already seen him alone, in the finale we see his mental health take a dive as he’s wandering around the smp invisible where no one has seen him in months. And most notably in Exile. A large part of the mental decline of Exile was him being alone, that’s the larger piece, that’s the thing he mentions over and over in those streams, that’s why Dream could even do what he did because Tommy was so affected by being away from his friends to begin with. Tommy has (for the most part even with certain antagonizing factors) already had the opportunity for peace and quiet, but that didn’t make him happy and that isn’t what he wants because if it was, he would have moved far away before back during the dsmp. Instead he stays because he wants a community and to be loved by people, as he says in the finale, he "just wants to have friends" [clip].

And if that’s the case, than an ending where he’s all alone, is the most tragic one possible. An ending where he spends hours staring at Techno’s house instead of going in and mending his relationship, is the most tragic and sad it can get. An ending where all he has is his sheep and a cabin far away with occasional visits with Tubbo, isn’t better just because he can remember what happened.

Sure he’s not in war, he’s not afraid of an active threat, but peace doesn’t equal happiness or healing, it only means that he’s no longer being actively hurt, but it doesn’t mean he’s healing those injuries from before. Yes, time heals all wounds, but you have to actually keep wounds clean and in an environment where they can heal, otherwise infection will occur. And I just don’t think Tommy’s environment portrayed in this stream is conductive to healing.

Plus being alone isn’t just unhealthy and not helpful for healing because in general being alone isn’t gonna help anyone heal, but also because I think in order to truly heal and be happy, he needed to heal his relationships with people. He needed to be able to form actual strong bonds and be able to trust people again and be able to get over his fear of being attacked and betrayed. In order to grow as a person, he needed to be a good friend and support the people he cares about. Giving up the discs for Tubbo’s life in the finale and seeing Dream as a person was just step 1 on a larger journey of growth towards contentment. But he can’t do that because as he says “everyone went away”

He doesn't talk to people besides occasionally Tubbo. There is nobody left and so he's unable to heal things with everybody. He didn’t heal things with Technoblade. He didn’t heal things with Wilbur or Phil and grow those relationships, because a reasonable implication of his statement about everyone leaving is that perhaps they left him behind. And if that’s true then he's probably never going to be able to heal. Part of Tommy’s growth is dependent on other people in the same way that part of Dream’s growth and healing from prison is dependent on other people. Dream would not be able to go into the woods and live by himself and be able to heal from what he experienced either. Sure he could heal from his physical wounds and maybe even some of his mental ones. But alone he can’t heal the biggest pieces that were broken in prison, that destructive betrayal and trust and fear and the realization that people- his friends, really do see him as less than and deserving of such cruelty. So, I think part of Dream’s healing needed to be him being shown that he still is a person, who deserves to live and find happiness. But that’s only gonna get validated and instilled in him through other people, like he can’t really determine that for himself. It was other people who hurt him so thoroughly and other people have to be involved in undoing some of that damage and healing him. Plus, like Tommy, Dream also has that same desire for community and friends and family - to be loved by others and never be alone.

In this way, both of them are very similar, a fact highlighted by the finale (that’s true even if you retcon it). Neither of them would’ve been able to heal and grow on their own (nor with their one best friend who is unable to meet their needs) even if the circumstances were perfectly blissful. And that’s why I think, regardless if you like or accept the finale or not, this second finale isn’t better for Tommy. It’s just sad. I just get the picture of Tommy sitting in the snow getting cold and soggy, staring at Techno‘s house for hours, not going inside and talking with Techno and fixing that relationship, but just staring.

In other words, the way I see it, in order for Tommy’s statement of he’s “Getting there.” to actually be true and actually be comforting and actually be a better ending he would have to not be alone, to have grown his relationships and learned to trust people again. But instead of any of that, we get that he lives far away in a cabin with a sheep named Mareep, the very opposite of that path to healing and contentment in my mind. Sure, there’s no war. Sure, he has his memories. Sure, he’s not living in fear from a specific target or person (especially Dream), but he’s still alone, unable to let go of his grudges, of his pain, of his past, and yet unable to face it as he moves far away and avoids returning to the dsmp main area...

Is that truly a better ending? Do we honestly hate the idea of new beginnings and Tommy being Dream’s friend so much we prefer a far more tragic ending of Tommy not healing and not getting his simple happy ending of playing around with friends, where for years he tries moving on but he can’t? Because to me, I don’t think it’s a finale of Tommy “Getting there.” but one showcasing how he never got there, even years later, even removed from the bad circumstances and the past environment. In the end, we never get to see Tommy grow and move on and heal from all that happened, which is a far more depressing and hopeless ending and theme, than the finale's theme of understanding each other, new beginnings and uniting in the very human goal of just wanting to be loved...

And maybe the past 4 years of living by myself provide me with a more in depth insight than others. Because I did exactly what Tommy did, I moved away and I left my shitty friends behind and then covid happened and I was suddenly alone. And yeah in some ways I love the peace and quiet it's why I choose to still live alone, but the difference is I go to work and run errands. I still see and talk with people and then go home to the nice quiet, but from what I can tell in the way he talks about not having talked to anyone in so "looooong" and his repeated gratefulness for seeing a familiar face, he doesn't get that social piece at all. Just like I didn't during covid and I can tell you from personal experience, being alone, even if you see one or two people every once and a while, takes a toll on your mental health and I wasn't even trying to recover from severe trauma like Tommy. I was in a good mental place relatively speaking before and then covid isolation happened, while taking some of the hardest engineering courses, and 4 months later I was in one of the most stressed and depressed times in my life where getting out of bed seemed like too much effort. And just like Tommy, I too told people I was okay and "getting there" but it was lies. Lies I told them because I was ashamed, lies I told myself that I could handle it on my own. I lied to everyone for months until I finally let them know I was struggling and only when I finally got help from people was I able to improve. I couldn't do it on my own, I had tried for so long but just managed to get worse. And I guess I can't help but think that is how it is for Tommy too. I can't even imagine trying to heal from PTSD, substance abuse, paranoia and such while isolated, college was hard enough as it is...

I think that c!Tommy’s ending was not the best for his character. What I mean is the new ending from Jack’s stream. I see many Tommy fans talking about how this ending was “better“ or it was them “moving on“. I really don’t think it was them moving on. I mean Jack is alone in the casino, gambling all the time. Tommy is alone and goes to techno’s house a lot. I think Tubbo might be there, but I’m not sure.

I don’t think Tommy moved on at all. Like, look at how he’s still there when either everyone else “died” or moved on and left. I mean, even though he has his memories and he still alive and the same Tommy that we all know, it just feels wrong for him to still be there. Especially without anyone else there. I just don’t get how being alone and honestly having no one but Tubbo who I believe he only sees occasionally if he’s even there at all, I wasn’t entirely sure, can be seen as “moving on”. Not that I’m trying to make a dig at anyone else, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I mean, nobody is there to help and support him anymore. If the nukes really didn’t blow up, it makes sense why people would move away. I personally wouldn’t want to be there any longer than I had to, especially with such hard memories etched into that land. It just feels kinda hopeless even though Tommy says he’s getting better or he’s getting there whatever the quote was, can you really move on from everything he’s experienced by yourself. Again, this is all just my opinion and the way I see healing and moving on.

being alone, in my opinion, would make you worse. There’s no one around like I’ve stated before. To me, it makes sense that only those three would be left. It feels like those are the three that would have the hardest time moving on. The ones who still need to heal from everything that happened. We saw that Niki chose to try and move on instead of killing Tommy, since she joined the syndicate. Jack from what I’ve seen, but to be fair, I haven’t watched a lot of his content lore wise, it’s always seemed to me that he would be the one between those two to not move on.

Well, yes, he talks to Tommy and he has grown and healed slightly for he trusts Tommy, he lets Tommy lead him on the exile bridge in the nether. I believe that’s where he died at one point. Tommy pushed him into the lava yet he still allows Tommy to lead him on that bridge again. I’m not trying to say that they haven’t healed at all, that they haven’t tried to move on. Jack came back from hell out of pure spite, I don’t think it would be easy to move on when you’ve been motivated for that long out of spite.

Tubbo, I’m not really sure about in the case of where he is during this lore stream. However, if he is there, which I’m assuming he is somewhere, he lost his husband, I’m assuming Michael is gone, which leaves him alone or in this case only with Tommy. Not that I’m saying that’s a bad thing, but it must feel impossible to move on with that sort of grief.

Tommy, I mean, where do I even start? Tommy has been through hell. He suffered a lot and that wouldn’t be something he could most likely heal from on his own. Sorry, I’m kind of rambling, but I just wanted to put my thoughts out there. All in all, I just feel like this ending isn’t as happy or satisfying as a lot of people make it out to be. Again, this is all my thoughts and opinions. I’m not really looking to argue with people about this. If you want to be civil, you can drop by my ask box and let me know what you think. I just currently don’t have the energy to argue with people. I hope you all can respect that.

[bleue-flora]

I actually recently did some time analysis [post] on this that might be insightful and helpful, if you genuinely want more information.

**EDIT**— Just found this scene, from Exile day #7 where Tommy actually screams at Jack for not visiting him for his whole week in exile, meaning that the first 7 days are confirmed to be in real time. So, unless we want to say that for some reason the last 4ish days of streams are somehow the rest of that 5 months or 5 years or whatever, but then that really really doesn’t make sense to me. Meaning that I think it’s safe to say that Exile is canonically only the 11 days of streams. Period. And a comment made by cc!Tommy later, out of lore, doesn’t seem reasonable or make sense to retcon what he said during actual lore.

Even without that though, to me it doesn't make sense for Exile to be longer, not just because not all ccs have agreed or confirmed it (which I think is essential since other things were going on in that time and it does change their characters' - take for example Jack: him not visiting for a week looks bad but him not visiting for months or years looks truly terrible and really paints his character in a completely different light) and how the dates of the other lore things are talked about in lore including Christmas (so unless we are saying that there is magically 5 months before Christmas after Nov 16th - a notorious date...), but also it takes away from the consistency. Nowhere except Limbo (a different realm) is it agreed on that things lasted longer or shorter than real time, so why does Exile get to be different? Why does one event out of many many others get altered time when the others don't? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense anyway we spin it. If we want to use Minecraft time [post] (1 day = 20 min) then Tommy's 11 Exile becomes over 2 years, which really doesn't align when you have Tommy mention to Tubbo later about them having a crazy last couple of years in reference to the entire time of the dsmp and multiple instances where Tommy talks about his actual age which would obviously be different if Exile took place over 2 (or 5 years). And I'd say it's only fair if you then extend that Mincraft time logic to the entire smp but that doesn't work either because you end up with Dream being in prison for 62 years and the dsmp taking place over 184 years which uhh... means that most everyone would be long dead lol. Plus, Techno has a prison related stream on his birthday in June celebrating his real life birthday, so if prison lasted irl time (which we also know because of what is said in a Jailbreak stream and Daedalus) but Exile lasted 5 months how the hell did we get from December to June in 11 months (5 months (Exile) + 6 months (Prison))? Where did the time go?

So, I believe the concrete evidence you are looking for is that absolutely nothing implies it being longer than real life. It becomes so problematic in so many ways, you'd have to have theories on theories on theories to make it work and even then I could probably still point out why it is unreasonable. In other words, it seems to me that everything points to it being only the 11 days, which felt longer because he streamed everyday and his mental health deteriorated so fast, but as he was just betrayed by his best friend and Wilbur had just died too I'd say there are lots of reasons on top of the harmful environment of Exile that explain his rapid decline.

As an aside, as someone who's mind is always on prison, while it may seem like there is more concrete data on the time and events of prison, I have to say that daily streams for the 11 days of Exile vs like 22 streams for the 314 days of prison seems like much more concrete data to me (the ratio of streams to days is like 1:1 for Exile and 7:100 for prison). Like plus on so many occasions Exile gets talked about, even within the prison arc. Meanwhile, I'm over here analyzing every brief mention, every frame of prison we get to put together a picture of what might have happened, even for just Quackity's 82 days in a row of visiting. Like all we get is 2 incomplete torture scenes out of the the 82 scenes that happened. That's where theory and assumptions come in, because we don't have the answers and all we can do is speculate based on the little we get. But Exile? We literally get what I'd say is 96% of that lore, no need for theories, we have the actual facts. I think we might have more lore of that arc then any other to be honest (… which what can I say, I'm just jealous for real :( lol)

So, anything we add onto it, theorize or speculate at this point is more like fanfiction, not that there’s anything wrong with that of course :D that’s part of the fun. But I think it’s fairly certain and reasonable to say that ccTommy’s comment and this seemingly canon detail on the time of Exile is very simply just not actual canon, it cannot be. I’m all for exploring hypotheticals and playing with possible lore theories and lore that’s questionable, but this one doesn’t work in any sense. Maybe it felt like 5 months or 5 years to Tommy, even when in actuality it was really only 11ish days. That to me is a much more reasonable conclusion as it makes sense that time would seem slower when spending time alone, away from the hustle and bustle of society, and in a poor mental state…

Wait if exile was 5yrs/months how long was dream in pandora??

I believe that Dream was in prison for a year. I mean it’s a pretty agreed upon fact and I’m pretty sure that some cc’s have confirmed that as well. I think when it comes to Exile, it’s pretty wonky. I think because we don’t have a full idea of when it happened. It’s just something I’ve heard people debate a bunch about. Obviously, I’m not trying to spread false information but this is just a lot what I’ve heard.

Exile was pretty different than Pandora’s Vault simply because they’re only two people mainly involved. Obviously there are more with New L’Manberg and everything but involved in main Exile for most of the time was Tommy and Dream. With Pandora’s Vault there was multiple people involved in the making and planning of it. So I think that’s why there’s a more concrete date. Obviously, you can look at it as however long cc!Tommy streamed it. I think that’s pretty fair view too. Also, Pandora’s Vault time is all cc time like IRL time. But still, I do believe this to be the canon time since I haven’t heard anything otherwise.

Plus from what I’ve seen cc!Tommy and cc!Dream never really confirmed a canon date for Exile. Which leads to basically only speculation and fan theories. Not that those are bad but personally, it would be nice to have an actual answer from somebody, but I know that we’re probably never gonna get that so settle for what we got now. Obviously five months is very different from five years, but one year is obviously one year. It’s harder to do a more canon timeline for Exile with everything that happened during that time if we don’t even have a concrete anything really time wise I mean.

Again, if anyone has any other information I would genuinely want to know for that would make my analysis writing and everything else for Exile in specific much easier.

[bleue-flora]

I really wanna start writing Dsmp analysis of Discduo mostly and some other duos but I’ve gotten a lot of hate from other inniters that follow me and it makes me not wanna post stuff and makes me anxious. It’s mainly because I don’t think c!Dream is an obsessive maniac. How do you deal with those kinda reblogs and asks, should I just ignore them? Sorry if you can’t answer.

Besides that couple weeks in September, I’ve mostly only had chill people in the asks even when it comes to c!Tommy. Per the index I just did, you can look at the exile and obsession discussions and asks, and see that people have generally been very civil, so I can’t say I’ve dealt with a lot of hate overall. Sorry you have though. Some people on here would probably tell you to just block the people (which is hard when anonymous), while I did end up doing some of that in September to stop the influx of harassing anons, in general though I don’t really want to just go and block a bunch of people because I disagree. Like if you don’t like what they say you can just not follow them, blocking someone over a take or two just seems extreme to me unless they are being aggressive or mean. But that’s just me.

I like to think the reason that I have had mostly chill encounters with innitors is because a lot of the times I talk about disc duo it’s mostly about lore and facts, which I try to present in a way that’s more respectful and neutral. I’m not bashing c!Tommy or people, just stating the truth and trying to understand it [example]. And in my mind, if that happens to paint Tommy in a negative light, that just is what it is, it’s not being specifically negative about him. And if I’m looking at it from Dream’s pov which happens to paint Tommy in a negative light, then again that just is what it is.

Anyways… I think a few things are important to keep in mind when doing analysis and/or discussion:

Above all I think it’s important to be respectful and courteous. Your argument doesn’t have to be attacking an existing one, it can just be offering a different perspective. In a discussion I usually like to compliment or agree with something they said and/or even provide reasons or my understanding of why they might see if differently.

In my opinion, I think it’s important to provide evidence so people can see for themselves. I’d say in general it’s hard to argue with the truth. On that note, I try to make an effort to differentiate between my opinion and the facts. Not stating my opinion or viewpoint as the superior one or objectively true, just how I see things. And again, someone can disagree with your opinion and offer a differing view, but everyone has a right to an opinion. An opinion doesn’t make it fact though, and I find myself more likely to argue with someone stating something as fact or objectively true rather than opinion. If you say “I think staged duo aren’t very close” vs “staged duo aren’t close” it makes a difference, or at least it makes a difference to me about how I might read it and respond. It then becomes - I disagree with your opinion and here’s why - vs - you’re wrong and here’s why or even you’re dumb and here’s why. Even in a recent essay [post] disagreeing with an innitor, I mostly simply stated the facts, asked questions and proved why I thought their viewpoint wasn’t in line with the lore. To which (at least to my face) they were respectful about it.

Or at least, I feel like in those ways I at least try to set myself up for more success and productive discussion. If people still decide to be harmful or talk about me or whatever, then at that point it’s on them and may be time to block.

I will say, I think disc duo are perhaps one of the most augmentative topics of the dsmp and if you do end up doing analysis on it, prepare for push back. At the end of the day, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to and again if they are being mean then that’s not okay. But people will likely disagree with you, perhaps Dream and Tommy fans alike and if you don’t want to deal with that then I’d suggest not using public tags and keeping it in the safe place of your blog or something…

Anyways, I ramble. Hopefully something in that is helpful. There is no great answer I don’t think. I’m sorry people have made you feel anxious and made you not want to post. I understand, I really do. And if it does bother you, then blocking can be a helpful tool, especially when people are being unreasonable.

And if you really just don’t want to deal with any contrasting opinions at all then (I have no idea if it would work) but it may be worth setting some boundaries or stating in your post that you do not want to argue with people and stuff. Not everyone wants to have to defend themselves and it’s in your right to just post an opinion if you want to. Personally, I try to make an effort to make sure people are okay if I respond, because I know that some people write things in tags or tag things a certain way to avoid counter opinions and such and don’t exactly want to deal with a whole essay of mine :) but that’s just me. So, at least then anyone who wants to be respectful could honor the boundary you sent. You can also just not respond if you want, it’s hard for me to do that but it is always an option. And if case it’s helpful, [here] is some more of my opinion/advice on doing analysis in general. Obviously I’m not an expert nor have I been here that long, but these are just my thoughts, hopefully they are helpful. :) <3

[bleue-flora]

Index — Dream

⬦ Lore ⬥ Essay ⬩Additional/Asks 💠Favs ⬦ Canon? ⬥ Non-Essay 🔹Unsolved ⬦ Map

💠 Most Attached ⬥ ⬥ Spirit’s Blackmail and the importance of attachments 🔹 Does Dream sleep? ⬥ Dream likes to move it move it ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩

"Big Bad" Dream

⬦ Did they fear him? ⬦ RIP Dream's reputation ⬥ How little he has to try to be "evil" 💠 Why Dream really is a snake 💠 So many labels for Dream... ⬥ Comparing Dream & Quackity as Villains ⬦ Dream isn't one of the control freaks ⬥ Spirit’s Blackmail and the importance of attachments

Post-Prison

⬥ Dream's post prison behavior 💠 Dream's pragmatic mindset ⬥ Dream's definition of Friend ⬦ Lasting effects of prison 🔹 What injuries does Dream have post prison? ⬦ Armor Comparison ⬥ RIP the satisfying revenge ⬦ Dream's enemies being forced to wait ⬦ Revenge torture? 💠 Tenderness of scars ⬥ Early scars versus Prison scars ⬥ When Dream finally cries 💠 Dream's Diary

Lore

⬥ Dream's parrot ⬦ Dream buying flowers ⬥ Why they burned down Tubbo's house ⬥ Dream's Inventories

Decoding Dream's walls

🔹 Are the signs gibberish? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ 🔹 Maybe the maps relate? 💠 Maps found! ⬥ ⬥

[bleue-flora]

Index — General

⬦ Lore ⬥ Essay ⬩Additional/Asks 💠 Favs ⬦ Canon? ⬥ Non-Essay 🔹Unsolved ⬦ Map

Lore Resources

⬦ Where to watch lore? ⬦ More Stream Links ⬦ DSMP member ages ⬦ Pre-Prison Timeline

Audience Perception & Bias

💠 The Psychology of the Audience’s Judgement ⬥ The medium of live streams ⬥ Antagonist are more entertaining to watch ⬥ Character Projection = Therapy 💠 Character perception engraved into the stream 💠 Bias of joining late and not watching lore

DSMP Big Picture

💠 All just people with different povs 💠 Intentions vs Consequences ⬥ Why retconing doesn’t work 💠 Timeline Comparison ⬩ 💠 Timeline converted to Minecraft

DSMP Morality

⬥ Just because It’s a prison doesn’t make it Justice. ⬥ There are no laws. ⬥ We all see things are good from out POV ⬥ Wilbur - more than one bad guy

DSMP Theories

💠 Is Dream's helmet his mask? ⬩ 💠 Dream is Oped ⬩ ⬩ 💠 Dream is Autistic ⬥ ⬥ ⬩ ⬩ 💠 Sleeping Beauty Dream

AU Ideas

⬥  Tommy sees Dream and Purpled confront Q ⬩ ⬥ Death as a therapist 💠 Playdate AU ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ 💠 Map ⬥ Character Details ⬩ ⬩ ⬥ Play date AU Season 2 ⬩ ⬩ 💠 Staged Duo go to the End ⬥  What if Dream revived Tommy after he killed himself? ⬩ ⬥ AU Reblog RP ⬦ Finale 2 AUs ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Tommy, Jack, and Tubbo in Limbo ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Techno hosts a podcast in prison even while not streaming 💠 Old Man AU

Miscellaneous

⬥ Why is Schlatt the president and Dream the tyrant? ⬥ It was all George's fault ⬥ Wilbur dsmp timeline ⬦ Where does Bad give Ranboo blueprints? ⬥ Why do all the ghosts have sheep? ⬦ Is Dream Jesus? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬥ Finale 2 does not retcon the other finales ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Is manhunt canon? ⬦ Is Twitter Canon? ⬥ Name calling If Quackity is 28 then how old is everyone else? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬥Would Dream go back in time & murder baby Q? 🔹 Did the characters know when their death was canon?

Not Directly DSMP

⬥ Want to debate me? ⬥ Therapists and their therapist 💠Who has time for hate? ⬥ Character projection is therapy ⬥ What light do plants need to grow? ⬥ Welcome to Dreblr's garden⬩ ⬥ Why can't we be friends even if we disagree ⬥ How do you get the courage to post fanfic? ⬥ Advice on how to do analysis 💠Poem about listening ⬥ My writing process

[bleue-flora]

Index — Disc Duo

⬦ Lore ⬥ Essay ⬩Additional/Asks 💠 Favs ⬦ Canon? ⬥ Non-Essay 🔹Unsolved ⬦ Map

⬥ Finale 2 is a sadder ending for Tommy ⬩ 💠 Was the prison meant for Tommy or Dream? ⬦ Similarity between Tommy & Dream ⬥ Go from hating Tommy to apologist? ⬩ 💠 Is Dream obsessed with Tommy? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Tommy is right Dream is a good guy ⬥ Suicidal - Tommy vs Dream ⬩ ⬥ Was Dream manipulating every single party in doomsday? ⬥ 🔹 Spooky Disc under Tommy's basement ⬥ Was Tommy the main reason for Dream's downfall? ⬥ Discduo discussion ⬥ Is Tommy the sociopath? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬥ Essay on Tommy ⬩

Early Era

💠 The moment that started it all 💠 Tommy burns down Tubbo's house 💠 Why he en de walls ⬥ Disc Saga lore inaccuracy ⬩

Exile

💠 How long did Exile last? ⬩ ⬥ How can people think Dream deserved prison due to Exile ⬦ Drowning parallelism? ⬥ Dream & Tommy friendship in Exile... ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ 🔹 What's lore and not? ⬩ ⬥ Exile as "Not morally perfect" ⬩ ⬦ Visitor parallels of Exile and Prison

Disc Confrontation

💠 Skeppy cage will never not be funny ⬩ 🔹 Staged finale - Dream was there for 18 seconds ⬦ Staged finale teleport ⬩

Finale

💠 Why the Finale was good. ⬥ Why do so many hate the finale? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ 💠 The finale wasn't about forgiveness ⬩ ⬦ Dream is Lucifer?! ⬩ 💠 clingy tried to kill him in his sleep!? 💠 They said he's weak then used harming potions ⬥ Was Tommy’s death “dying a hero”? ⬩ ⬩ 💠 Tommy's base on Dream's wall

Clingy Duo

⬥ Clingy duo Toxicity ⬦ The original bench trio ⬦ Fishing gang ⬩ ⬩ ⬥ Tubbo < discs apparently

[bleue-flora]

Index — Map

⬦ Scavenger Hunt ⬥ Interesting Details ⬩Additional/Asks 💠 Favs

⬦ Egg ⬩ ⬦ Bad is the muffin man confirmed ⬥ Techno's Alt 💠 Lost creatures ⬥ George has Dream's shield

Pandora's Vault

⬥ So many wardens... ⬥ 3 entrances to main cell ⬦ Warden's stasis chamber ⬥ Random prison sign

Secret Chests

⬥ Museum ⬥ Tommy's ⬥ Dream's Base ⬦ Warden's Trident

Redecorating

💠 Main Cell :] 💠 Courtyard headcanon ⬩

[bleue-flora]

Index — Rivals Duo

⬦ Lore ⬥ Essay ⬩Additional/Asks 💠 Favs ⬦ Canon? ⬥ Non-Essay 🔹Unsolved ⬦ Map

⬥ Don't poke the dragons ⬦ The Importance of Techno's 1 Life ⬥ Dream vs Techno in fighting dehumanization ⬥ Is Techno more mentally stable Dream? ⬥ Dream and Techno being silliness ⬥ Beauty and the Beast ⬩ ⬥ Techno’s relationship to violence ⬦ Techno's face ⬥ Techno just calls it like it is ⬥ Techno's vs Dream's politics ⬥ What it means to be a tyrant ⬦ Ring a bell? ⬩

The Letter

💠 Why He Wrote The Letter 🔹 What's with the book that's not Dream's letter 💠 "dear technoblade"

Prison

🔹 Did Techno only break in for Ranboo? ⬩ ⬦ Techno and Dream sleeping arrangements in prison ⬦ Techno highlights Dream being used for primes ⬥ Dream has hope with Techno

[bleue-flora]

Index — Prison Arc

⬦ Lore ⬥ Essay ⬩Additional/Asks 💠 Favs ⬦ Canon? ⬥ Non-Essay 🔹Unsolved ⬦ Map

⬥ Just because It’s a prison doesn’t make it Justice. 💠 The crazy cruelty of the prison arc 💠 Dream never did escape prison in the end ⬦ Quotes about starvation 💠 Pandora’s Box vs Pandora’s Vault ⬥ Dream replacing his old house 💠 Why I think Dream put himself in prison ⬩ 🔹 Why switch from steak to potatoes 🔹 Multiple reasons to commission a prison? ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Where does Bad give Ranboo blueprints?

Pandora's Vault

💠 Living in an obsidian box ⬩ 💠 Super hot cell ⬩ ⬦ Dream punching glass ⬦ Dream punching obsidian ⬦ Prison Guardians ⬦ Breaking out of prison

Sapnap

⬥ Sapnap vs Sam’s betrayal  ⬦ Changes topics from torture to book ⬥ Sapnap & real word view on prisons ⬩ 💠 Micheal asking the real questions

Quackity

⬥ Comparing Dream & Quackity as Villains ⬥ Does Quackity have empathy? ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Quackity’s white shirt 🔹 What emotion did he have while torturing ⬦ Quackity sneaking to a hiding Dream ⬦ Quackity's unsigned waivers 💠 Quackity talking about torture with Bad 🔹 Seasons/Weather?

Torture Box

⬦ Ceiling height ⬩ ⬦ Why no chains in the cell? 🔹 Why do you need a hoe & shovel Sam?! ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬦ Warden's Mercy... ⬦ Prison chest implications ⬦ Did Q use potions? 🔹 The chair 💠 Torture tools 🔹 Framed Potato ⬦ The knife & chair ⬦ Why is Sam's axe named a hammer?

Sam

⬥ Sam’s need for control ⬥ Sam liked it 💠 Sam's ultimate engineering project ⬥ Significance of the small cells ⬦ Prison books everywhere

Daedalus

⬥ The switch in Daedalus ⬥ Daedalus wasn't about revenge ⬥ Manipulation in Daedalus ⬥ The message of Sam's scar ⬥ Sam entitlement to food ⬥ No more than books ⬥ Not allowed to even hate 💠 Why does Dream let Sam out? 🔹 Home away from home?

[bleue-flora]

Index — Staged Duo

⬦ Lore ⬥ Essay ⬩Additional/Asks 💠 Favs ⬦ Canon? ⬥ Non-Essay 🔹Unsolved ⬦Map

💠 Staged Duo's Island ⬥ Punz agrees to Dream's goal 100% ⬥ Did Punz push back against Dream's plans? ⬥ Is Punz crueler than Dream? 💠 Monster and Mercenary ⬥ They are sooo evil ⬦ Staged duo headcanon ⬥ Did Punz enable Dream's self destruction? 💠 dont touch dream ⬦ Punz the Wilburslayer ⬥ Does Punz actually care about Dream? ⬦ Punz gave Dream his pants ⬩ ⬦ Coordinates book ⬩

Post Prison

⬦ Scrapped Lore Coordinates ⬦ Punz confronting Purpled 🔹 Why say 6 months when it wasn't? ⬩ ⬥ Symobolism of Punz's white hoodie ⬥ The triangle of denial between Pandora’s Vault, Dream & Punz

Finale

⬥ Why Punz revived Dream ⬥ The Plan ⬥ Were Staged duo telling the truth in the finale?

Revival Book

⬦ Revival Book burned by lava ⬩ 🔹 What if the revival video was from DreamXD’s pov 🔹 Dream's & Punz's ghost names ⬦ Did Staged Duo do experiments on themselves? ⬩ ⬩ 💠 The MAP that details the experiment timeline ⬩ ⬩ ⬩ ⬩

[bleue-flora]

The thought of Dream telling Quackity that’s what’s in the Revival Book rotted my brain all night that I couldn’t help but write a couple scenes of how it could go first thing this morning. The first of which is where Dream is being more silly, and the second is where Dream is more desperately adamant.

TRIGGER WARNING: Torture, Maiming, Profanity, Blood… etc, ya know typical torture box things :]

“Fine. Fine, okay. You wanna know? You wanna know what it says? ‘Fuck you’ that’s what it says.” Dream remarks smugly as Quackity rips off another fingernail.

“Don’t get fucking smart with me, Dream. I’ll just take a finger next. You want me to do that? Huh?”

“Okay, okay, Quackity. Fine, you got me, it actually says ‘revival book’,” he corrects, the smirk remaining plastered on his face.

“You think you’re funny, Dream? Is that it? You think you’re fucking funny? Hmm?” Quackity responds, pulling off the last nail of his left hand.

And he is being funny, just in a more ironic way than Quackity realizes. Honestly, it probably shouldn’t be funny at all. That he’s giving Quackity the answer and he won’t even believe it, should probably not make him want to laugh. And yet, it is funny. Maybe his head has just smashed into obsidian too many times.

“No, I swear—I swear, I’m not even joking, that’s what it says, Quackity. You know, it just says ‘revival book’.” Dream fictitiously pleads, amused by his prank.

He’s not even sure whether he’s pranking himself or Quackity. It’s supposed to be Quackity. And yet, as the pliers dig into his thumb’s nail bed, it feels more like the joke is on him. That the irony is on him. That this really might be his new reality forever, if his torturer won’t even believe him. At least until Quackity grows tired of tormenting him and then kills him instead.

“Man, you’ve fallen off. I swear you used to be funny, Dream.”

“I’m hilarious, to be fair.” He grins, shoving down the panic filling his chest as Quackity pulls out the shears.

— OR —

“Give me the book, Dream!” Quackity demands digging the sword further and further into Dream’s calf.

Dream tries not to scream, clenching his jaw till it hurts as blood drips onto obsidian forming small pools in between the sharp peaks of the uneven surface.

Twisting the handle like a drill, Quackity yells again, “Give me the fucking book!” for what has to be the millionth time in this godforsaken cell. It’s really getting old.

“I’m not giving you the fucking book, Quackity!” Dream eventually answers like he has done so many times before, but that doesn’t stop Quackity from digging the blade in further till it hits the obsidian on the other side.

The rage that colors Quackity’s face, almost makes Dream want to laugh, because how dare he be frustrated. If anyone should be angry it should be the one helplessly lying on the ground with a sword impaled through his leg. But the frustration isn’t new for Quackity, it is perhaps Dream’s only entertainment at this point, to see just how much he can piss him off.

The malevolent glint in Quackity’s eyes of something hungry and savage is however not a common sight and it promises unpleasantness to say the least.

“Alright, alright, fine, Dream. Fine. Since you don’t seem to care about the condition of your leg here, how bout’ I just cut it off? Hmm? Should I do that, Dream? Would you like that?” Quackity threatens while pulling out the sword, undiluted vitriol coating his tongue.

That gets Dreams attention, “Wait—WHAT?!” as he tries to use his arms to crawl back away from the maniac holding a diamond sword.

He doesn’t get far before Quackity steps on Dream’s currently less bloodied leg, effectively pinning him in place and likely breaking multiple bones in the process.

“Wait, stop! Please, Quackity, stop! You don’t have to do this.”

“You’re right. You’re right. I don’t. I don’t have to do this. I don’t have to as long as you give me the book.” Quackity offers, lining up the sword to cut halfway between his foot and knee.

“Quackity—please, please, please, please, please, please stop. Please stop!” Dream lets out desperately, wanting to walk and run and jump again.

“You know, what I want, Dream. You know what I want. You can stop this. You can stop this, just tell me what’s in the Revival Book and I’ll stop. ” He says swinging the sword.

The blade is less than a foot away when Dream finally blurts out, “Fine—okay, okay, it’s—it’s r—revival book”

Part of him feels ashamed for giving up. Part of him sighs, hoping that the pain will finally end. Part of him scolds him for signing his death certificate. And part of him just laughs because he has been tortured for days over something that, at the end of the day, really is that simple.

Too simple to be believable apparently, because after stopping and studying Dream with an intense stare, Quackity spits out, filled with nothing but exasperation and doubt, “What the fuck do you mean ‘it’s revival book’?”

“It’s—you know, you just write ‘revival book’ in a book and burn it.” Dream answers, unsure of which part of him convinced him to give up after making it through so many days of torture.

The practical part, he supposes. The part of him that knows that walking again is far more important than his pride.

Not that it matters, Quackity just laughs disbelievingly, but there’s nothing genuine about it, “You think you’re funny huh? You think you’re fucking funny, Dream?”

“I’m being serious! I swear—” he tries before Quackity cuts him off.

“Oh, I’ll show you serious, Dream. I’ll show you how serious I am.” Quackity voices, low as he raises the sword again.

Dream is barely able to scream, “S—Sam!—“ before the blade lands, hitting the floor with a loud clang.

So much for telling the truth…

Why do I feel like based on the security reset card and the secret books Dream gave Techno in prison, that the Revival Books were literally just books titled Revival Book that said, “revival book” inside….

[bleue-flora]

Why do I feel like based on the security reset card and the secret books Dream gave Techno in prison, that the Revival Books were literally just books titled Revival Book that said, “revival book” inside….