#c!dream and c!tommy

[bleue-flora]

What's often interesting to me, is Dream spells it out in the finale and people often still don't get it, so I thought it'd be interesting to see what he was actually referencing here. To see where it all started.

[24:27] Tommy: “That first war, me and Tubbo versus you–how it should have ended–why’d you take it?” Dream: “Tommy, you ambushed me and killed me. You stole all my shit! You tried ambushing me in a little cave–you don’t remember that? I feel like you just–your memory is just–gone.”

So here is the ambush Dream is talking about, where Sapnap and Tommy basically decide to just kill Dream and then kept all of his shit. [Death 1]

He gets killed again when he tries to take back his stuff. [Death 2]

Tommy kills him for fun right after he respawns with nothing. [Death 3]

Then after Dream gets his stuff back (via our boy Punz) and he takes the discs to get Tommy to stop, he gives Tommy back his items. But unsatisfied, Tommy goes after Dream, gets one of his discs back and hides it in the little cave. Dream tries to find it, while Sapnap and Tommy try to stop him. They are unsuccessful until, Tubbo brings them axes and they sneak up and corner Dream in the little cave, ambushing and killing him. Once again, taking all of his shit, (including, yes, the other disc.) [Death 4]

[27:58] Tommy: “Think about that, we could’ve been friends but no because you have to figure out the reason you have to get–”  Dream: “Yeah we could’ve but you–you ruined the chance of that long ago. It was you.” Tommy: “I ruined it?” Dream: “You ruined it!”

And I don’t think it’s unfair for Dream to say that in the finale, because for Dream it’s this stream early on, these moments that started it all. It’s these instances of Dream getting murdered and robbed and made fun of over and over. Him, trying to not just make peace for everyone, but also reclaim respect and peace for himself. It’s Tommy chasing after Dream when he has nothing to kill him and rub it in his face. It’s Dream, even after all of that, giving back their items. It’s these instances of violence taken too far to the point they clearly pissed Dream off and didn’t care or follow his very simple request of just giving an apology and his belongings back that shape my distaste for Tommy and sympathy for Dream. It’s these moments that I feel like are gone from Tommy’s and our memory that highlight a different story.

[28:34] Dream: “Yeah, we could have been friends if you weren’t a little shit.”

[theminecraftbox]

There’s been some recent talk about c!Tommy’s attitude towards c!Dream’s torture, but I’d like to balance out the conversation with two moments that I think aren’t getting enough consideration:

1) Tommy confronting Quackity over the (suspected!) torture. His tone is not approving. It is something Tommy is confronting Quackity over: the context is that Tommy’s trying to poke holes in Quackity’s obfuscations and explaining that Sam, and more generally anything associated with the prison, is terrible. Quackity and Wilbur are both trying to win him over. Tommy’s working through complex feelings about this. Also, notably, it’s something Tommy assumes; Quackity denies it and Tommy backtracks a little.

2) Tommy reacting to Dream telling him flat-out that he’s been tortured. He seems shocked by Dream’s insinuation that Tommy had anything to do with it, and he doesn’t seem happy.

I think there is plenty of space for a character to be both a) vengefully be, in theory, in favor of the torture of someone who hurt them badly, and b) also be uncomfortable with the actual reality of serious bloody torture.

Tommy’s full of big words. Dream is full of big words too. Let’s not forget about what Dream promised he’d do to Quackity, and Sam, and Tommy. They’re both full of shit (and lbr I’d believe Dream’s brand of shit over Tommy’s).

​if we’re going to talk about c!Tommy’s attitude towards torture I think it’s more relevant to talk about things he actually did vs things he said.

[saltwatersweets]

c!discduo post genuine finale makes me so sad. i know those two unintentionally trigger each other ALL THE TIME

[waddei]

tfw a hallucination of your idealized younger self calls you a fucking loser

[sunsetcdiscs]

Tommy said on his recent alt stream that he always wished he couldve done a different ending for ctommy, and when jack went live on the smp he realized he could..

(timestamp- 49:00)

"I logged on Jack's stream, did that, stood in my cupboard, and was like 'Fuck man, I just wish I could've ended it differently-' and I was like- 'OH I can! Right now !!' And then I legged it back to my computer, wrote a few notes, and was like 'Ok, c'mon Tom, fuckin' lock in, man.' ... Yeah I was really happy with that."

"... It didn't even really make that much canonical sense to go to Techno's house, I just needed Jack to know without me saying anything that I was, fuckin', being really serious in-character."

"... Yeah, it was nice, I was really happy. I always had that ending in my head, like imagining that the alt ending was that he had a little cottage. So I liked it- I was like 'Yeah! This is fuckin' canon, man.' ... It meant a lot to me- It really meant a lot to me! You ever like, be clearing through your bedroom and you find a toy that you forgot, fuckin' meant the world to you, then you're holding it and your like 'Oh shit. This is so important, right now I've remembered about this.' That's what it was like doing the cottage- I was like- I got to be a tiny bit ctommy and I was like 'This is fuckin' important to me, lets fuckin' finish-! This is the most important thing right now!'"

[lemonsilly]

grieving your innocence

[spoopdeedoop]

who up thinking about they c!clingyduo

[threadandswords]

On C!Tommy and grief and moving on

i. @vividlyv1nnie // ii. @greelin // iii. Everything Stays, Adventure Time // iv. @incendavery // v. @bongwalter10 // vi. The Orange, Wendy Cope // vii. When the Ghosts Come Ashore, Jacqui Germain

[sethdomain]

Big Brother

[chaamomiles]

Redraw of this spider-man thing, idea courtesy to @/thefloatie on twitter :)

[idiot-mushroom]

a headcannon i just cane up with

[bleue-flora]

I’m kinda curious if the majority of c!Tommyinnit fans or people who see c!Dream as The Villian are younger siblings and only children, while the majority of c!Dream fans are older siblings or siblings who have played an older sibling role… it’s just a theory but I wonder if people who played a more responsibility or caretaking role are more likely to understand and side with c!Dream.

Note: if none apply please don’t answer but feel free to leave your answer in the comments. Also if you are confused or need more clarification, feel free to ask me, as an autistic person/overthinker I could totally see myself overthinking this too <3 (but not much I can do cuz I only have 12 answer slots with very limited word count)

[theminecraftbox]

c!Dream wasn’t entirely responsible for c!Tommy’s poor mental state in Exile and to pretend like he was feels disingenuous. c!Tommy very much is rocked by c!Tubbo’s decision and essentially condemnation of him as well as still very much affected by c!Wilbur’s death. c!Dream didn’t have to do much to mess with his mental state.

strongly agree / agree / ambivalent / disagree / strongly disagree / don’t care whatsoever

Yeah I mean obviously c!Dream’s treatment was poor but also obviously c!Tommy was staring into the lava day one 😭 like give the dude a break man

But yeah neither of these guys exists in a vacuum…

[saltwatersweets]

hope its okay to share my opinion on finale too all good if not. I really liked it for the most part, its just I think there were points where it made c!tommys need to target c!dream come out of nowhere when c!dream should know why c!tommy would attack him giving the chase seen after prison break, and the talk he had with c!tommy after doomsday about how their story would never be over. It was a surprise to me seeing c!dream so shocked to see c!tommy there after what he put into c!tommys head and I say that as a c!dream and c!tommy apologist. Another thing was c!dream talks about how they could have been friends and how there was destruction but there were moments in the past where c!tommy saw c!dream as a friend but c!dream referred to that as business, and there were moments were c!dream caused destruction and chaos before c!tommy had. I can understand why the ccs wouldn't remember every single detail of the dsmp though and since lore wise c!dream went through a year of being tortured, his memory probably isn't the best and he focuses more on the big picture than little things like Im mentioning. I've watched the finale in full many times now, I still don't understand the reset plan that c!staged duo had but Ig the point was that they didn't get it either. They wanted to kill everyone and revive but also didn't want to disrupt the balance but it was different to what they said in the stream before it, I feel like c!tommy was too sympathetic because in response to pitying c!dream, c!dream tells him he deserved torture which does frame it in an odd way to me even though it was in character.. that and exile being mocked. I love that the finale showed that violence wasn't the answer and didn't repeat things but sometimes it did feel very lobsided on who was sympathizing for who, and who was blamed the most when the intention was trying to write it as equal for both sides. The reset and nuke itself imo was fine because in s2, the characters were going to regain their memories eventually anyway but it sucks we never got to see that.

(/dsmp /rp) i unfortunately can't really give a good answer to this because honestly i'm still kinda looking into it myself, and i don't really consider myself the expert analyst on either character despite my love for both of them </3 so take this all with a grain of salt !!

my thoughts on why c!dream was so annoyed at c!tommy seeking him out to kill him likely was mainly because c!dream hadn't seeked c!tommy out for a while at that point, to be fair. i view what he said to c!tommy after doomsday as trying to intimidate him again. a lot of how c!dream behaves around c!tommy (especially after exile) is intimidation and exaggerating his "evilness", like him saying that he did doomsday because c!tommy is "fun" or a lot of staged disc finale like what he tells c!sam. so even though c!tommy has good reason to believe dream is intimidating him, a lot of it is just that: intimidation.

to me, the reason why c!dream does this is to keep c!tommy in line, because from what he's seen c!tommy continues to annoy him but less so when he's scared of him. and, like cc!dream said, to make. him believe that c!dream was his only friend and all. i think this goes into c!tommy saying he saw c!dream as a friend but c!dream didn't - i think this is just the truth; during exile c!dream was trying to get c!tommy to view him as a friend, but i highly doubt that c!dream viewed him as a friend, ykwim? when he says that they could have been friends, i think he's referring to EARLY early dream smp when tommy was going around causing problems. i think he views c!tommy joining as the root cause of all his problems on the server (and c!tommy views c!dream's Everything as the cause of all HIS problems. they both have a very negative view on each other, and this view is both founded at times and unfounded in others!!)

as for c!dream saying c!tommy "deserved" torture, i'm super interested by this line!! to me, c!dream isn't like, say, c!sam or c!quackity who i believe base the people they hurt on if they "deserve" it or not (like dream himself in the prison; the two both seemingly wholeheartedly believe he deserved what he got). for example, c!dream doesn't kill c!vikk and c!lazar because they "deserve" to die, he kills them because they're useful towards his goals.

on that note c!dream and "deserved" pain is very interesting to me - he tells c!sam he didn't deserve to be tortured, and that he hates him for letting him be tortured, but in basically the same conversation says he understands c!sam letting him be tortured, says he understood the risks when he got the revive book, and says he might have done the same thing in his position. bro literally rationalises his own torture to the person who let it happen </3 he also asks c!sam if c!quackity deserves torture and even threatens to torture him in an act of revenge (something he doesn't end up doing or even attempts to do for over HALF A YEAR, despite how much he clearly hates c!quackity). i think its entirely possible that part of him genuinely believes c!tommy deserved his treatment in exile, but it is important for me to say that i don't believe he treated him cruelly BECAUSE he believed c!tommy "deserved" it.

as for c!dream calling exile torture yet also minimising it, again this is SO interesting to me because in my opinion, i don't view exile as torture. it was awful and cruel, yes, but not torture, and c!dream, who was tortured for at least two months, calling it torture is veryyy interesting to me. torture is something that's terrible for anyone, no matter who it happens - it would be just as bad for c!dream to be tortured as c!sapnap, or c!quackity, or anyone, because torture is terrible for anyone. meanwhile, what happened in exile was a much more personal form of manipulation that was more specific to c!tommy. if, say, c!purpled was exiled and got the same treatment that c!tommy got in exile, i don't think he would be NEARLY as affected by it, because exile's events were more specific to c!tommy who views his loved ones in a much different way than c!purpled does.

this post isn't even me answering anything anymore this is just me dumping my own thoughts LMAO 😭 c!dream, canonically physically tortured, calling what he did to c!tommy torture is just so interesting to me. just shedding some light on how i view their dynamic and thought processes i suppose!!

(and as for c!dream's and c!punz's plans to reset the world i genuinely have no idea what the actual plan was there LMFAO. and also with basically everything i said above: it is somewhat important to note that c!dream had lowkey been high on copium for like. two years straight at that point 💀 bro has been in a mental spiral for a WHILE and c!punz, bless him for being the only one still loyal to him, is his number one enabler. a lot of what he says isn't going to make complete sense at times; a lot of what he says isn't what he completely believes, and he often threatens to do things he doesn't do. to me both he and c!tommy are really similar like that: they both say things and try to make themselves "bigger", at least somewhat as a defense mechanism.)

[firexima]

/hug

I will never be ok about bedrockbros :(

[yuttikkele]

thinking about benchtrio and remembering c!tommy was a PROFESSIONAL thirdwheeler for c!beeduo

tubbo: this is my husband ranboo I love him very much

some person: and who’s that?

*tommy in between them holding their hands*

tubbo: oh that’s tommy he’s our ally

tommy: I HATE GAY PEOPLE.