#but I like it even more when a character arc makes sense
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prncssguya · 2 days ago
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on hwang in-ho/front man, seong gi-hun and their dynamic.
first, idk why people are getting so upset at other people calling gi-hun dumb, we were told that in the first season. lol being bright is not his strongest trait but he has a good heart and we love that about him. however, he is still an idealistic gullible idiot with a gambling problem. except this time his gambling addiction is backed by a sense of justice and righteousness and he no longer gambles with money, he’s gambling with people’s lives. front man asked a good question at the end of the season, “did you have fun playing the hero?” can we even call gi-hun the hero of the story anymore? he gambled with people’s lives and front man showed him the consequences of his moral heroics.
front man only agreed to help gi-hun with his revolution when he mentioned about "small sacrifices for the greater good". i think he reveled in the fact that the “good guy” was willing to allow a few innocent people to die for the greater good to stop the games, which is exactly what the entire VIP theory is to rid the world of 'trash' to improve the world. notice how gi-hun's moral code and belief also changed, from being "nobody should die" into "yeah small sacrifice is okay as long it's for the greater good" at this point, he just proved that front man's belief is actually valid. AND he gets more of his own people killed in the pointless battle with the soldiers that they had no chance of winning. now he gets to feel responsible for all those deaths and the death of his friend and for whatever additional torture they cook up in the next games (as punishment for the escape attempt).
now on hwang in-ho, i believe he was once a good man and the story he told gi-hun was the truth. but in the end he lost a kidney, lost a wife, a baby, lost his money, got fucked over by the wrong people and got into serious debt and had to play this game to help his wife and probably it was too late to save her. he might have played the games like gi-hun but saw how ruthless and greedy people are and resolved that they don't deserve help
i don’t think in-ho wants/will kill gi-hun, but he wants him to understand things from his perspective and show him that his compassion for the people in the games is foolish. you can tell the frontmen (the old man and in-ho) are extremely fond of gi hun. not only did he protect their original front man when nobody else did, he then won the games and thus their respect as he is now as rich as them. he's no longer "trash", he’s an elite like them. i think they both actually kept tabs on him after he won (i wonder if they do that for all winners? inserting them with gps chips?) because they knew he had not used his reward money and in-ho wanted gi-hun to get on the plane and be happy with his daughter
there’s one interesting aspect of the games that makes front man such a complex character. the fact that they’re operating a organ transplant trafficking network. in a way, he’s creating some good to come from a really fucked up situation. but is it really for the good of others who desperately need it, people like his wife, like his brother? or is it just a money making scheme?
either way, i don’t think there is going to be a redemption arc for in-ho, he’s too far gone. we may get to see more of his human side if he manages to see jun-ho again. the only time we’ve seen genuine emotions from him was when he shot his brother like he seemed distraught
the real cliffhanger for me, is will gi-hun stay true to his belief that people can be good, or will he be forever changed into a villain and become the next front man…? after the events of this season i don’t see how his will doesn’t shatter. he’s witnessed how humanity consistently chose money over survival, he’s lost two close friends, his mother, abandoned his daughter. he has gained nothing from wanting to stop the games and this clearly feels like an origin story for the next front man. it’s clear the front man has won this round and i think squid game will either die with 001 or continue with gi-hun as game master
another thing i find funny that i don’t see many mention is how gi-hun is like the luckiest guy in the fucking world. but i don’t think him being alive this long is plot armor, it makes sense. the games exist for the entertainment of rich sadists who have so much money they don't know what to do with it (remember what old 001 said in s1 about life being no fun for both people with no money and people with too much money). and i’d imagine killing hundreds of poor debt-ridden fools year after year gets boring. especially when said fools are desperate enough to gamble with their lives because they think they can beat the system by playing better than everyone else and surviving and getting the money.
gihun is different because he got the money, got out, and still came back. not because he's unfeeling or because he wants more money, but because he's still convinced he can beat the system.
if you're a rich bored gazillionaire, would you rather watch some randos die or would you rather watch this exceptional idiot fail again and again until he learns that his ideals are meaningless and people are inherently greedy and equality is a myth and people at the bottom of the barrel don't get to question the system?
if you're an asshole gazillionaire, you don't want someone to challenge you and just get away with it. you want to hand them 45.6 billion won and make them go away quietly, traumatized, after breaking them psychologically by making them do horrible things until they understand they're just powerless "horses". if they insist on challenging you and your system and your beliefs (money = boundless power), you teach them a lesson and show them their place in the most manipulative and cruel way possible. if gihun dies right away, that's boring. so he can't die, he needs to suffer. he needs to concede defeat.
also, i find it funny how people are comparing hwang inho and gihun dynamic to hannibal and will graham. makes sense, their whole cat and mouse game, front man hiding his true nature from gi-hun the same way hannibal does, trying to corrupt the righteous protagonist, sowing chaos, testing him and observing his behavior like a lab rat, the crazy tension and staring contests, the gaslighting and manipulation. and with the fact that they think lee byung-hun looks like mads mikkelsen. i never put the two of them together but now i can’t unsee it lol
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isa-ghost · 2 days ago
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Quackity was right to kill off cQ 100%, and not just as a way to be fully done with dsmp and the racist loser fuckass that's the face of it
cQuackity deserves the rest. cSlime is right hes. tired. so fucking tired and burnt out.
he was wronged so extensively over and over until he became no different than the people who hurt him and he knew this, he was aware of it every second he lived whether he acknowledged it or not
there comes a point where youre in too deep and he was and he knew it. so he tied up his loose ends (saying goodbye to Slime) and doubled down on his suicide bc for horrible people like him with so much blood and corruption on his hands and so much destruction and unhappiness around him no matter how many bandaids he slaps on that flesh wound, thats the way out. and its tragic but true. he was as much a villain as he was a victim in the end
there was never gonna be a cQ redemption arc. i dont necessarily think he was utterly irredeemable but it was simply a route that doesnt fit the character.
because what would a "happy ending" for cQ even look like?
he had no one else after Slime left, hes incapable of trusting anyone including himself, hes TERRIFIED of giving up even an increment of control, the only home he has is a giant monument of how long and hard he tried to bury his trauma and grief and anger and how desperately he tried to escape everything he went through by burying it in exaggerated grandeur and riches and power
surrounded by loved ones we trust is usually what we think of when we hear happy ending. cQ is more or less incapable of that, he has no loved ones to speak of and no ability to trust people. being alone and "at peace" can be a happy ending, but alone isnt peace to cQ, he'd likely just dwell on everything that's haunted him for so long. making something thats all their own and built with their own two hands is another common happy ending. cQ did that and it was a sham and only caused him more pain.
he was fucking tired and too deep in everything he learned to believe after everything he went through. a final rest where no one can hurt him anymore and he doesnt have to fake his happiness and stability and protect himself with mostly-fake power and wealth is whats right for him. its fucked up but that's the reality. he's a tragic character
i'm personally super satisfied with the endings he chose for these characters of his and i've heard about way too many people who are being way too negative about it. and an obscene amount of people who apparently hate-watched the stream. i will honestly just be blocking those people. i loved what Quackity did and i think cQ's end makes sense.
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thewertsearch · 1 day ago
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The two last trolls alive, blood of rust and royalty, will make each other pay for the crimes against their race. Their payment will be mutually dealt in the currency of punishment and reward at once. The Condesce will be rewarded with the power and immortality her new service entails, and punished by the grueling slavery for which it is synonymous. And you, young lady, are to be punished by death at the hands of your replacement. And so too will this be your reward.
As a villain speech, this goes pretty damn hard.
There’s also a smug air of detached satisfaction to it. Scratch is the one who really deserves to pay. He’s the one who's been perpetrating crimes against their race since its inception. But he’s completely untouchable, so he’s free to sit back and narrate the fight he goaded them into.
It also illustrates another parallel between Scratch and Hussie. Technically, Hussie is the ultimate cause of all the suffering in this comic – but at the same time, he can’t be ‘held responsible’ for it. That wouldn’t make any sense.
Similarly, if Scratch was called out, he’d say that he’s not causing any suffering, he’s simply 'facilitating the inevitable'. It wouldn’t make any sense to blame him, would it? He's only the narrator of Homestuck's plot, after all.
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...speak of the devil.
I've been watching Hussie's progress through the mansion, but he hasn't done anything noteworthy so far. He did refer to the Ancestor backstory as ‘fanfiction’ at one point – but for my own sanity, I’m going to assume that was just a tongue-in-cheek meta joke.
Perhaps you wish to know the history of the clock, and how I came to possess it? Yes, I can see the sparkle of curiosity in your eye. It's a marvelous tale, one almost as long as it is verbosely told. Where do I even begin…
Looks like Hussie’s about to attack Scratch before he can explain the clock’s backstory - which isn't quite as bad as if he'd interrupted the Ancestor lore, but I was still hoping to learn about the origin of this artifact. A God Tier resurrection monitor seems like it’d be useful to have around.
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If I have to put up with one more smug meandering interlude in my own story I am going to crack your head open and serve you a heaping bowl full of your downy soft puppet ass. How do you like that for hospitality, Doc?
...I’m having a little trouble interpreting what’s happening here.
What does it mean for a story, when the metaphorical author is accosted by the actual author? Is this just Hussie’s way of signaling that the Scratch Narration Arc is over, and we’re going back to regular programming?
Furthermore, is this even a ‘real’ event? Is Scratch’s grand plan seriously being foiled by Hussie, and not the actual characters of Homestuck?
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And what the fuck does Kid Handmaid think about all this?
How do you react, when your invincible, immortal abuser is finally brought low by some random alien who appeared out of nowhere, ranted about puppet ass, and proceeded to dance a little jig?
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kaijuwarrior · 6 hours ago
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Yay more lore on TFP Sparkplug!? She’s got a very interesting origin story and character arc too.
So Starcream’s the one who causes her to meet her other parent…as well as causes her to come into the care of bots, huh, well that’s totally not going to come back and haunt him, when both sides find out how Sparky really ended up alone on earth.
Also he did it cause he was being replaced is a good motive, but he really shouldn’t have done that, wonder what will happen to him since he tried to off Sparkplug? Will he even make it to RID timeframe in one piece? Considering how mad Megs and Op would be at him for pulling a stunt like this?
Also he gets more control for a while? Control of what the Decepticons on earth? Okay how does that work? Like is Meg’s first objective to find Sparkplug after he revives himself instead of taking back control of the Nemesis?
Also when did Scream kicks Sparkplug off The Nemesis? Like was it early in the TFP show like during rising darkness during the Autobot’s attack, to rescue Fowler? Or was it later?
So Acree does indeed find her, and out of survivors guilt takes her back to the Autobots base? Um okay, what survivors guilt? Cause it must really be bad if the guilt is only triggered by seeing a sparkling? Plus what are the others reactions to seeing Acree just come back to HQ with a baby? Also Ratchet was the one at the base who found out after her, and didn’t want to help Sparkplug!?! What why? She’s a baby and technically Optimus’s his best friends, kid for crying out loud why would he not want to help her?
But eventually it seems she does get him to open up and even becomes attached to him, as well as Jacks mom? Okay? How’s that happen? Like I get it if she only forms an attachment to June if she’s the one who care for her a lot at first…till the other bots, and kids figure out how to help care for her. But that seems a bit specific it Junes case.
Also Sparkplug wants to a medic, okay, that a bit different compared to her other versions why does she want the job she’s given in the other universe here tho?
Also she’s destructive…alright that doesn’t seems to bad, she can’t be as bad as the severed Vehicon head suggests right?
The kids reactions are all spot on, though I do question why Jack is upset that he has baby sitting duties? That should be easy? Plus Raft is happy he’s a part of the older kids club now! Is precious, even if the youngest in question is a sparkling.
Okay so her older self appears in “Robots in Disguise” makes sense, but now that is confirmed how did she just to losing her main father figure after the events of Predacons rising?
Leading into the events of the Dinobots:beast hunters comic, and then the events of Robots in disguise Proper! Cause we know that theirs no way that the secret Decepticons who rule Cybertron as the high council, don’t try and control or get their hands on Sparkplug to use as a puppet in some capacity, which would explain her being around on earth again, she saw an opportunity to escape and she took it! Which explains why she would be their on earth, to glare at Bee to get his shit together, as well as contributing to the defeat of the Deception high council. As well as the escaped prisoners, and crimes gangs on earth.
So Nightflyer is one of the animal themed cons in this universe okay, but he’s a Predacon? He’s trained under Starscream, as well? How does that work? Also does he still have a crush on Sparkplug? And get in trouble form both sides for it?
Also Soundblasters a what clone? Experiment, creation to replace Soundwave? Okay, how did the cons even make him then?
Okay so since we know that a TFP version of Sparkplug exists…that got my inner Prime fan, brain thinking, and I sudden had some questions regarding Sparkplug Prime.
So like how did the bots even discover her, like was she really dramatically unveiled by Megs? Or was it more of an accident, and they found her during a big fight? Cause she was still fairly young into of the images we saw her, while her more mature, form seems to be hinting at her future.
Plus did the bits really take her back to their base? Cause if Acree is comparing her stare with one of her dads, then I assume Team Prime does ‘capture’ her, and brings her back to outpost omega one. But that raises even more questions…
Like how do the rest of the hits react to her? I assume Acree is going to be very protective of her seeing how she’s the one holding her? What are the Kids and Folwer(and by extension his bosses the U.S government) reactions cause the bots can’t exactly hide a Sparkling meant to be the ultimate Optimus killer.
Plus since we know that Sparkplug is a member of a trio, does that mean a version of her friend’s Soundblaster, and Nightflyer exits?
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Someone wanted to know more about her, and I felt like drawing her so why not. I image she ended up in the hands of the autobots because of Starscream. He saw how much Megatron fussed over her and immediately knew his ass was about to be replaced. Seeing an easy target to dispatch, he literally just kicked her out the ship during a battle and said the autobots must’ve dispatched her.
Megatron is obviously heartbroken and Starscream uses this to get a little bit more control for the time being.
Meanwhile, Arcee finds this little sparking in the middle of nowhere and due to survivors guilt, takes her back to the base.
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Due to her intense power, they decide to take her in and hopefully raise her to be kind. This all being while Megatron still tries to look for her (I image he takes her when Megatron steals Optimus prime). She ends up getting rather attached to Jack’s mom, as well as Ratchet. This Sparkplug actually wants to be a medic and does her best to help… even if she’s a little destructive.
Miko loves her, seeing her as a little destructive creature with good intentions. Jack is more upset that he’s getting suck with babysitting duties. And Raph is happy to not be the youngest anymore.
I image her older version would appear in “Robots in disguise”, showing up to glare at bumblebee and force him to get his shit together instead of Optimus. (My version Optimus stays gone because we want Bee to have proper character development)
Nightflyer would probably be one of the animal themed deceptions that trained under Starscream, starting in his predicon form.
Soundblaster would probably still be a attempt to make another Soundwave since he’s still trapped in the fucking shadow realm
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plaidos · 2 days ago
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I have no particular dog in this fight as I'm not a GF superfan or anything, but I would like to question a bit of your analysis.
I think you're right that the version of GF where Dipper is transmasc makes Mabel's canonical actions transphobic.
I would like to question the insinuation that those same actions would've been "normal sibling rivalry" (?!) were Dipper closeted transfem or even cismasc, as opposed to "worst sister ever" (!?) behavior. Especially if we're going with transfem Dipper, those incidents of bullying remind me much more of patterns of bullying against transfeminine people, and intersex people CAMAB (such as myself) that I've personally witnessed/experienced.
Also, to the idea that Mabel being transphobic fundamentally changes her character in some way. Like, sometimes characters we're supposed to like hold a bigoted attitude which they will unlearn over the course of the story. Sokka from Avatar and Weiss from RWBY come to mind. Mabel being one of those characters doesn't fundamentally change her storyline or arc.
you’re right, Mabel’s actions and teasings are still mean with a transphobic undercurrent — even if Dipper is a dyadic cis boy, to be honest. but she’s also a twelve year old born in 1999. i too have received the kind of bullying associated with the way Mabel acts towards Dipper about his gender, but i’ve also had similarly “jokes” from loved ones who didn’t realise how shitty they were being because they didn’t have the political framework to analyse what is fucked up about it.
but if we’re reading Dipper as transmasc, it’s like… everybody he knows is accepting enough of his identity to gender him correctly, but they’re still totally willing to say things to him that you would categorically know are bigoted even at that age. like a twelve year old cisgender girl who knows about trans people and respects their existence might not realise how needlessly callous she is being when she teases her (seemingly) cisgender brother for having “girly” interests, but that same cisgender girl would probably be able to identify that her openly transgender brother wouldn’t want to wear makeup and that it would be incredibly fucked up to make him. i’m not saying it’s “right” but Mabel needs to actively Be A Transphobe (rather than just having some twelve year old cis girl ideas about gender & masculinity) to treat Dipper the way she treats him if he is openly transmasculine, but I feel like there’s more of a plausible deniability. i feel like the Mabel we see in the show is a couple years away from being like “wow, that was spectacularly mean of me, i hope that didn’t have an effect on Dipper’s self worth”
i feel like if (in the crazy alternate universe where this is possible) there were an episode where Dipper came out as transfem after feeling hurt by Mabel’s jokes she would be really torn up about it. she’d say something like “i’m really sorry, i didn’t know you felt so strongly about gender… i thought we were just joking around but i should be paying more attention to how you feel, Dipper…. wait, maybe you don’t want to be called Dipper any more. Oh no I AM a bigot!!!” and then Soos would come in and be like “heheh. total hatecrime dude” and then we’d cut to Bill being like “i don’t care what gender you are pine tree… i’m gonna get that GIRL if it’s the last thing I do” except girl would be obviously ADR’d over in Alex Hirsch’s normal voice with his live action mouth over Bill’s animated mouth
also transfeminine Dipper has just always made more sense. the big argument was that he uses a nickname instead of his birth name which he keeps a secret. and that would make sense if Dipper had a girl’s name, but Dipper’s birth name is “Mason”. so he actually is choosing to not use a male name and instead use something gender neutral, even though he really loves matching with his twin sister & having matching names is a family tradition — so he probably has a pretty big reason to not use it, considering he still doesn’t even with all the reasons he has to.
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barrenclan · 2 days ago
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HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS TIME GAMERSSSS
omg daffy with the save!!! i guess she’s not really wrong, traveling herbs are basically superpowers, but THAT’S MY FAVE!!!
ooh no. him staying “still can’t half hear” makes me wonder if any hearing will return at all, but i guess that’s for the epilogues! but in any case getting more on blacknose after it all is always a win… happy she’s still ‘here’ in a sense.
OH SO NIGHTBERRY ISN’T STAYING BECAUSE OBLIGATION SHE’S JUST STAYING SO COOTSTORM ISN’T ALONE AND BECAUSE OF TRAVEL AND CYPRESSFOOT??? :(((( MAN!!!!! though technically nightberry.. probably doesn’t have long left, so cootstorm will still be on her lonesome. tbh even though i hate cootstorm i eagerly wait to see if we get an epilogue for her, just to dig into her mind during isolation…
MAGIC EYEBALL POWERS AOFJRKENEKEN NOOOOO
AYO!!! THE CHARACTER ARC!! LET’S GO PLUMSTRIPE!! i love how they start on ‘we’ but then goes back onto ‘i’, major props to plumstripe for taking that first step and moving beeface on to apologize too!!
agehehhh beeface’s apology :(( god god i am NOT GOING TO CRY OVER CAT COMIC TODAY NOOOOOO!!!
OH WOW DAFFY DOESN’T ACCEPT HER APOLOGY???? to be honest.. LETS GO DAFFY GO STAND YOUR GROUND AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE APOLOGY BUT DON’T FEEL PRESSURED TO ACCEPT IT!!!! i think a daffy near the start of this probably would have just said “i accept your apology” to just.. get it over with, but my girl has GROWN!!!!!!!! SHE IS COMFORTABLE IN HER OWN SKIN AND WILLING TO DEFEND HERSELF!!! LETS FUCKING GOOOOO!!! i don’t want to say 100% because i could be illiterate but daffy’s mentor relationship with beeface can probably be described as abusive?? so i am very proud of her for voicing what she needs and saying she wants to go no contact!!! and yes it is stupid to say i’m proud of a fictional kitty but I DON’T CARE !!! DAFFY I’VE SEEN YOU GROWWWWW
god i’m so curious as to what bee would’ve done if plum wasn’t there, but also i’m overjoyed plum stopped.. whatever was gonna happen. cain and abel more like slugpelt and rainhaze amrite??
YES TALK ABOUT YOUR EMOTIONS CHILDREN!!!! yess daffy!!!!! very happy with her realizations that she doesn’t need a mate and/or kits to be fulfilled, but even if she tries and it doesn’t work out she has people… that’s my girl!!!! there is so much love in her heart and it’s growing every day.. she’s been through so much and still she just loves her family and her friends and wants to share even more of it.. AGGGGG DAFFY YOU’RE SO GROWNNNNNN AGGEGGVV!!!!
i forgot this was the pinewing comic for a second my bad. blinded by my favorite. anyways yes this is so stupid but i love the reminder that he and corm are ‘official’ now. they’re in love hehehe!!!!
yesyes please visit guys
SPOOKY BRAIN MAGIC LMAOOO i hope even when pinewing visits she never stops calling the magic funny names. it’s so good
oh they’re gonna visit asphodelshine i guess i am crying.. i forget what blue borders mean are those imagination? she does also look so much older.. are those daffy’s imagined kits or are those the stillborns that came before them..?
OH THIS IS STILL GOING OKAY I’M BUCKLING BACK IN
WAIT WHEN DID SLUG BREAK A LEG????? was this because of south park raccoon’s chomping or???
NO SLUG NO WE GOTTA GET OUT OF HERE!!! DON’T LEAVE YOU BEHIND!! NO ROTTING!!
oh gawd pinewing just wants his mom what if i cried again.. don’t rot for the dead live for the.. living idk i’m trying to sound cool but i’m too emotional over kitty cat comic.
CORM HELLO
awggeghh his home isn’t this place it’s the people…
“this time you’ll have me” GAY!! GAY PEOPLE!!! OH WOW THEY’RE SO GAY. they’re so adorable raz i did not go here expecting one of the cutest couples in fiction hello??
HI STRANGER ALNELEBELEIEKEJE I THINK I MIGHT LOVE YOU OH KY GODBSKDNEKDJD LET’S GO FIND SOMEWHERE NEW!! THIS PANEL IS SO PRETTY!! RAHHHHHHHHHHH
i love this comic so much.. i cannot believe it is ending but at least we have funny gay people…
I am gonna miss getting your issue reactions so badly! What a journey it's been!! :,)
Pinewing is now permanently hard of hearing in his scarred ear, because Hacksaw was able to damage some of his inner ear as well as the outer skin.
Yeah, even if she wasn't super old and weary, Nightberry wouldn't want to leave her daughter behind in isolation like this. To her, she's already fulfilled her last duty - telling Pinewing about oracles - so she can rest a little easier now. Cootstorm does have an epilogue, and I am super excited to get to it. >:]
Plumstripe's been having her own little character arc in the background of the last ten-ish issues, and this is where it really comes to the forefront! She's a lot guiliter and more unsure than Beeface is, but she's okay with guiding the two of them. And yeah, it was important to me that Daff accepted the apology but didn't forgive! It's okay to not forgive your abusers, and still want to them to become better people at the same time.
So real for being blinded by Daffodilcloud, she is wonderful and should be appreciated at all times.
Someday, in the future, Daffodilcloud: hey Pinewing can you find lunch for us with your brain lasers?
Pinewing: alright,
Blue borders are hypotheticals/imagination, yes! Daff is imagining what it could have been like for Asphodelshine to be an aunt to her own kittens in the future that never was.
Slugpelt broke her leg when Deepdark kicked her!
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At heart I'm just a big sap who wants things to work out okay. And I like telling stories about people who get to have love and keep surviving despite the hard things they go through. Thanks for reading. <3
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coolingrosa · 2 days ago
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There’s a reason I don’t like the Ink and Dream fight. I don’t believe it does justice to Dream’s character and villianizes Ink too much.
Dream main arc is about coming to terms with the death of Nightmare, but also accepting that what happened wasn’t his fault and the villagers were wrong. Nightmare was killed for things out of his control. His death could’ve been prevented if he was treated with compassion and understanding. Nightmare was not evil just because he was the guardian of negativity, and his morals and values around this also did not make him evil. The judgement casted against him that caused his abuse was unfair, as Nightmare could not control the hand he was given in life and what his side of the scale entailed. Dream understands as he gets older the importance of the balance and how the judgement towards Nightmare due to what he guarded was unfair and unjust.
And yet, when confronted with Ink, who has a moral compass and a job with expectations out of his control, Dream does the very thing the villagers do and condemns him. Rather than understand Ink’s position and acknowledge that what his brother went through is similar to the morality that Ink juggles, Dream pushes him away and villainizes him. Ink sees people as concepts and lets them sit in misery in AUS because he ISN’T ALLOWED TO INTERFERE REGARDLESS. He does not ever want to disobey the creator’s and his job as an overseer, so he never would. He partners with Dream to protect them from getting destroyed and respects Dream for this. But he is allowed to not get more involved and to have his own standing with things. Dream doesn’t have to agree, but if Dream was still reeling from the conclusions he faced from Nightmare, he should understand or at least approach this with a lot more grace.
Instead, it’s written as if Ink is a villain for his views and that Dream is a sweet soul incapable of harm. Ink is painted to be a toxic friend who manipulated Dream and poor little Dream fell right for his trap. If Dream was written to be a hypocrite in this case, that would be an interesting dynamic and character flaw. But he’s written to be correct in this argument, and it stomps all over his character development towards Nightmare’s death. Neither should be correct, because both have their own motivations. If it was accurate to Dream’s characterization presented, the fight shouldn’t have even happened. If it was before his arc, then yes, it would make more sense. But the lack of apology or conclusion post-acceptance-arc shows that it isn’t about Dream’s lack of awareness. It’s just about making him the angel of the multiverse while Ink is villainized once again for things out of his control.
And before people say Ink has a choice in the matter- no he does NOT. If he angers the creators, he loses his vials which are his temporary soul. He will turn into a husk and basically die. If he does not appease them and abide by the minimum rules in place, he will lose everything. Though he doesn’t listen to ALL the rules, that’s more fanon than anything. In his canon, he abides by them (mostly) and only interacts with outcodes- which is why he’s close with Top. Even if he doesn’t, he doesn’t push his luck too much to upset them or fail at his job, and stays hidden most of the time to keep the AUS from interacting with him. I can’t see him keeping that from Dream either- especially since Ink isn’t one to form connections and if he committed to a team-up, he had to actually care about Dream enough to trust him with those secrets. If Dream still shunned him and Ink was written to STILL be in the wrong, it’s a direct injustice to Ink and what’s on the line for him, and it paints Dream as selfish with a god complex. Which is fine! You can have a character with flaws! I would be so fine if it WAS about Dream’s flaws. But it isn’t. Because Canon Dream is a Mary sue of a character who can’t do anything wrong.
And don’t get it twisted, I LOVE Dream, which is why this fight angers me. If you want the fight, have Dream apologize to Ink and Vice versa in the future and come to an understanding. Allow Dream to admit his wrongdoings and have Ink do the same. Or if you don’t want that and want Dream to have more complex flaws toward Ink, THATS FINE!! THAT IS LITERALLY FINE TO MAKE DREAM A JERK IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS BC HE SHOULDN’T BE PERFECT. NOBODY IS. Make characters with history complex instead of tools to make your character more of an angel. Or don’t have the friendship breakup at all and have it be a fight that they work through together. You don’t even need to keep them working together. Like god just give Dream more complexity besides a little smol bean angel who is manipulated by everyone he meets.
My older sister and RoseVerse Co-writer saying it best: “i think this is the thing that arcane fumbled on when it came to cait
because they thought they wrote her has a beacon of virtue that when pointed in the wrong direction is catostrophic
but the narrative spent so much time trying to make the audience understand her instead of put in the work to teach her that yes, although she was manipulated, her drive to punish the undercity over one grief made her a hypocrite her mother wouldnt have recognized
dream in the same vein is supposed to be clear and cut archetype of goodness, and by that logic, nothing he does can be wrong
oh God killed all those people in the flood? he's good, and god is kindness and therefore the death was not only justified by merciful. but dream *cant* be an archtype of goodness if you also want them to have a character arc, they need to have flaws, be multi dimensional. you cant have your cake and eat it too. dream betrays ink and himself when he's met with the same situation and enacts the very violence he swore to protect his brother from. to frame that as good because dream is written to be good is crazy”
This is why I literally chose to ignore the fight exists because Ink and Dream are way too compatible as friends to be dumbed down in a stupidly written fight for Dream to get goody points.
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thelunarfairy · 2 days ago
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Index (continuation)
ANALYZES:
Do you think the twins have an incestuous relationship?
Can I consider it a bad omen?
The look without shine
Let's talk about how Hanako seemed more emotional in this panel?
ASKS:
if the entity is inside tsukasa does that mean when he is destroyed the entity will be realised or unite with him ? Do you think it is really inside him ??
hello, what do you think of the mysterious entity for now? Do you think she's evil or not?
Do you think we will ever see a tsukasa mental breakdown? I know that he actually seems like a wall of steel at certain moments but sometimes I wonder about it
kaku didn't tell hanako that there was an entity inside tsukasa but rather told him to kill him why ?
Hanako saw Tsukasa fighting Akane what was he thinking was he able to stop the fight ??
What if tsukasa refuses to stay with his brother because it's means ruining the price of the wish with the entity so he is forced to stay away from hanako ???
if tsukasa was trapped in the border sleeping how did he call hanako and if not for what reason did he need to call him because tsukasa's first disappeace on the surface doesn't seem like he was for help why did amane make sure to make him weak inside the border???
Hii, do you think that the reaction of tsukasa at the end of the ch.82 was coping mechanism?
tsukasa came back with the entity but he was calm just fulfilling wishes but when he dead and became yourishiro he wanted to break the world and get away from his brother where did he get these dangerous ideas even if it was to fulfill a wish is still scary 😨 what are your thoughts??
Hanako seems to have had a goal this whole time, to destroy the yorishiros and he's been using Yashiro since the beginning. I wonder why he gave up so easily during the Severance?
I reread chapter 62 of jibaku shounen hanako-kun and there are things I didn't understand. Did Hanako know Yashiro was in the elevator?
HI , what do you think of this picture, what is Tsukasa doing here is he looking for a new victimes or is he still possessed?
It go me thinking and wondering so I thought I’d ask: is there a difference between supporting characters and secondary protagonists?
Do you think Tsukasa's friendship with the entity is one-sided? In the sense that the entity is only using Tsukasa and doesn't care about him at all
We see tsukasa great strength and an inner entity but what prevents him is that he is yourishiro hanako and the control belongs to his master , can he rebel against that? I would like to see tsukasa in a state of agitation supporting his sorrows 😔 ????
What if tsukasa remained in the new timeline in the red house as a child so amane brought him back though remorse even if in a distorted and harmful way ?
Do you think the sacrifices the entity controls want as aililes when it gets out and that Tsukasa is the prefect vessel for that ??
Idk how to say it but I always had the feeling that tsukasa know that deep down his twin love him, because after all tsukasa is a very smart and observing person , his only reason to go back to his home when he was 4 is to know more about amane
what I would it be like if tsukasa was a person who hated Hanako for killing him and would do anything to make his own wish come true??
prove to me hanako doesn't know anything about tsukasa even though he is his yourishiro but how will he react when he that tsukasa has an entity inside him and another things who will tell him ?? I am curious??!
whenever the twins meet they want to talk together but their moments are never complete why do i hate that 😭 ??
amane did horrible things to tsukasa in their life and after their death and tsukasa didn't shed a single tear but when tsukasa wasn't affected by hanako's worlds he started crying why doesn't he see that he was wrong towards tsukasa 😞😞!?
In the Mitsuba arc, Hanako and Tsukasa interacted for the first time but Hanako treated him harshly . Why ??
tsukasa asked amane if he wanted him to stay or disappear amane didn't say anything and there where no scars on him is it possible that tsukasa hurt him just to know his answer and in the end amane killed him ? What do you think?
Hi, did you happen to understand in chapter 18 of Hanako-kun, the serious way Hanako looked at Mistuba when Kou asked if there was another way to exorcise him? Was he evaluating him? Do you think he understood that Mistuba made a contract with Tsukasa or was he simply just seeing if he was a weak spirit?
do you think that the entity want's Kou to be there vessel? i mean, he has tsukasa working with him, giving him a home, but maybe the entity is leading Kou to the red house so he can be it's new body, just a theory
I find it interesting that Mitsuba was able to destroy yorishiro. Not really sure how it work in this world but up to this point we have seen that only Nene can do this
Now that we know how much hanako loves tsukasa i think about their first meeting on the rooftop when tsukasa left and hanako attacked yashiro did he do that because she hurt his yourishiro ??
Hi , i wanted to ask you about Halloween 🎃 2022 i read it but I don't understand the meaning of many of this pictures
I wonder how hanako will be when they return to the old reality after he said that to tsukasa??? What do you think 🤔
Hiii, looking among the many art I came across this one which raised many question marks in me
Could you talk about the "abuse theory" a bit?
Hello. I don't know if you have answered this, but how can Tsukasa think that Amane hates him, when Tsukasa is literally his yorishiro?
tsukasa changed in last chapters he doesn't hug hanako , doesn't talk to him , and doesn't listen to him why 😭😭??
hanako sais unlike last time that's we won't see each other again and I can't save you ??
what I want to say is what if the yourishiro were like seals for the last yourishiro of number seven meaning that they weaken the entity inside tsukasa ???
Can you please explain to me why do people think that and try to analyze hanako/ amane behavior and personality according to the masochisme
Hi, do you think we would ever have a remote chance of seeing hanako put tsukasa back in the confines after all this returns to the original timeline?
tsukasa loved his brother and made him happy as he should have but after he turned into a supernatural being he began to show his love in a frightening and strange way as if he was under the influence of the entity . What do you think??
after meeting yugi twins on the roof hanako wasn't in the bathroom all day did he go to the border to make sure tsukasa got out or what do you think 🤔
At the beginning of the manga we see glimpses of tsukasa and not his full form but after the destruction of the first yourishiro he became able to move but it took time to get used to it and in the mirror hell he became better because of the destruction of two yourishiro
is the reason why no one knows about tsukasa's existence because he is a yourishiro who must be on the border and his going out and causing chaos makes him dangerous to the rules of the world?
tsukasa said that every supernatural being must be known by many people to be stronger but no ons knows him and he has great power . How is that?
what is meaning of telepathy between twins and how is it with yugi twins do they have it???
if hanako and tsukasa don't have the twins power hoe did hanako know were they fell ??
hanako doesn't mind others talking him that he's a murderer and that what he did will be unforgivable , but when tsukasa mentions it he can't stand it , what's the reason 😞😞??
we don't know anything about the making of the yourishiro but hanako made tsukasa his yourishiro but tsukasa must have been asleep at that time but I don't understand how he calls hanako or introduces himself he became a yourishiro this is complicated help 😞😞me
Hi, which characters do you think have disorders?
How did tsukasa feel when he first met hanako after he was locked up in the border and left ??
the human yourishiro is special but when he goes out it's a problem like hanako and tsukasa what would be tsukasa's answer if hanako told him that he should go back to the border to stay and protect him
Tsukasa crushes anyone he fights but doesn't do anything for his brother Is it because of the yourishiro bond between them? But he forces others to hurt his brother 😭 I don't understand 😔
I don't understand hanako when he saw tsukasa for the first time or his reaction I mean tsukasa was waiting and seeing his brother but didn't do anything and waited for the right time why didn't he go to him as soon as he escaped from the border 😞 ?
I recently saw your post about the elevator chapter (62) and it got me thinking, what did Hanako want Akane to do for him?
Hi! I just saw your post about Nene and this question came to my mind. Do you think that Nene and Tsuchigomori are similar in that sense? Since neither of them likes to intervene in other people's problems…
Do you think hanako calling tsukasa a fraud was a big shock to tsukasa??
I don't understand how amane could kill tsukasa then make him a yourishiro if he doesn't care about tsukasa what's the purpose of this ?
Why when hanako throws tsukasa to the ground tsukasa doesn't do anything ? Is it because he's a yourishiro or because it reminds him of the past ?
Do you have someone fun , non-sexual stories of the yugi twins please 🥺
Hi, what do you think will happen with the entity's possessed kou in this new red house arc?
Does tsukasa hold a grudge against yashiro and kou for talking him about the future he doesn't know and that changed his life 😔?
Was hanako shocked when he found out tsukasa wanted to disappear and not live with him how did he feel 😞 I mean is this something he hasn't heard from tsukasa before ??
Does hanako feel shocked and sad when he sees his brother doing all this ecepically since he wants to disappear ?
Does tsukasa get annoyed with his brother sometimes so he wants to get rid of him through others??
how does tsukasa know his way into the boundaries of each other puzzle while he is a yourishiro trapped in the boundaries ??
Maybe no one talks about it but hanako was at his weakest after seeing tsukasa was he crying? What do you think??
Do you think Yashiro has any consideration for Tsukasa or his feelings?
do you think hanako will give in to tsukasa's desire and let him disappear 😞?
what were Hanako's thoughts when he heard tsukasa say he wanted to create an artificial human in the past??
how would tsukasa be if the fish talked to him and made him their ally ? 😅
Do you think hanako is afraid to look in the bathroom mirror 🪞 because he will remember his brother?
Hanako confuses me ! He says he doesn't want tsukasa to disappear and wants his wish but he always stays away from tsukasa how can tsukasa feel his big brother's love if he is always from him ??
Amane said tsukasa throws a tantrum when interrupted but I don't understand if tsukasa used to to hurt his brother before but doesn't do anything to him now even with the power has amane ever seen tsukasa with black eyes??
Katakuri says tsukasa was with them in the hole 🕳️ but was pulled out of there how ? And why only him??
I don't understand hanako's surrender with tsukasa why didn't he think about saving his brother instead of being affected by him ? Why is he so weak ? If he loved tsukasa he would want to return his brother as a normal person 😭😭
I don't understand how hanako can stand still while watching his brother who called him and brought him back as a yourishiro hurt others and do everything he can do disappear , How does he feel? Has tsukasa became a problem for him??
Reading the new chapter I thought of something, Teru, Nene and Akane already came with memories of the old world, Aoi is remembering because of Teru (from what we know so far), but Kou and Mitsuba seem to be the only ones with that voice asking them to remember things. This old version of themselves
I found the seven puzzles to seal the entity that his inside tsukasa but hanako made tsukasa yourishiro carrying the entity if it wasn't for tsukasa yourishiro the entity wouldn't exist??
I always think if hanako wakes up and realizes everything he does is pointless and doesn't want to work for the entity could the entity use his brother against him because he remains a sacrifice??
I feel shocked that hanako is the leader of the seven mysteries and protects the balance between the two worlds but he is unable to save his only brother , does he feel pain because of this 💔?
Why does Hanako always try to hide his true identity from yashiro?
I doesn't understand how amane lived in the new reality and achieved his dream while knowing that his twin was missing but he died as an adult , all this for tsukasa??
It's clear that the entity is triking the yugi twins by granting them a wish because when the yourishiro is destroyed the world ends and no one will exist anymore so this is all trick , what do you think??
I feel like the current arc with timelines is similar to the trolley problem, where one timeline tsukasa was the only one killed by amane (im not so sure but i think so) while in the new timeline a lot of people, probably students in the school who had fallen victim to tsukasa-kun are sacrificed in the red house... What do you think of this?
Hanako has to learn yashiro hates all his methods of saving her so he goes through the same thing were tsukasa fulfillies his wish by leaving him he hates it he has to act and think to settle things
I wonder if amane saw tsukasa looking scary or the hole 🕳️ inside him which led to his death??
why doesn't hanako try to fix the past with his brother and start over with tsukasa ??
When hanako spends time with yashiro does it remind him of the time when he and tsukasa were just ordinary brothers ??
if entity has existed for so long why did it choose to exit inside tsukasa it is stranger than that ?
Can you analyze amane's adulthood and his realsship with tsukasa please 🥺
In the story of the cat cafe what was the role of the twins ? I read it but did not understand it , is tsukasa a real cat??
The sacrifices were distorted as soon as fell into the pit, hoe did the entity not distor tsukasa while he was living inside him for a long time ?
Do you think there is a link between the entity and tsukasa ? I mean he lived inside it for a long time even when he returned to his brother nothing changed and he continued to think that amane hated him , will we see tsukasa preferring the entity over others in the future????
Hanako killed tsukasa and ended his life and now he brought him back as a locked up yourishiro who wants to protect him I don't understand this contradiction how can he protect someone he killed before??
I don't understand tsukasa is extremely strong and can destroy any place but why was he helpless within hanako's limites ? Did hanako create him to be a yourishiro without a mouth so he was freed with outside help and gradually began to gain strength ?
Does hanako blame himself when he sees his brother torturing others without remorse and wanting to disappear??
Hanako can feel cry remember the past and be sad but tsukasa is not like him despite everything that happened to him and the existence of that entity inside him that turned him into a monster that everyone fears 😔
Okay, let's talk about something random
Omg, it's so embarrassing >.<
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So, it's been a while since I created this account and I've already gained some followers, thank you all for that :3 (it means you like the crazy things I post)
So I wanted to talk a little about myself (even though I think no one cares XD)
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Ok, I'm going to be serious now XDDD
I created this account because I really like JSHK and I wanted to talk about some crazy ideas or theories about the series and I felt welcomed here ^u^
I want you to know that a lot of things I post are just some crazy ideas that I occasionally have and that it's okay if you disagree, be kind S2 or if you agree I'll be happy if you want to talk to me about it :3
In fact, I hope you feel free to talk to me if you want, whether with an Ask or a message, I love talking about JSHK, if you also love and like crazy theories you can come talk to me if you want.
Don't take the things I say here too seriously, about the theories specifically, I may change my mind in the future or it's just crazy in my head, the most important thing for me is not to be right, but to have fun!
I'm trying to unravel the story in the most entertaining way I can, so it's okay with me if I'm wrong about the things I post (because no one other than Aidairo knows what's actually going to happen) XDD
Anyway, that's it.
Some other information that I don't know if you're interested in but I'll leave it here.
I am a girl
I'm Brazilian, I'd like to make that clear because if there are any Brazilians who also want to talk to me, feel free! (Sou brasileira, gostaria de deixar isso claro porque se tiver algum brasileiro que também queira falar comigo sinta-se a vontade!)
I speak English and Portuguese
I post randomly, but I usually post a lot because I tend to create theories and crazy ideas out of completely nothing.
Anyway, that's all, if you've read this far, thank you very much for giving me your attention :3
Bye bye~
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Index
THEORIES:
Amane's Darkness
Could it be that in the time of Amane
Amane's past
The house and the fire
Hanako-kun's Big Puzzle
Predictions of the tragedy
These hands…
The Cursed Seal
ANALYZES:
The monster inside Hanako
One of the mysteries of the Yugi twins
Hands on the walls
The irony of life and Hanako's karma
The forecast
Did you notice?
When you remember that at some point, Hanako will have to say goodbye to Tsukasa again…
Amane's disease
"Red Thread of Fate"
Okay, let's talk about Mitsuba
Amane's possessiveness and insecurity
Natsuhiko and the mysterious door
The relationship between Tsukasa, Yashiro and Amane
Tsukasa's relationship with the red house
Yugi Tsukasa's mother
Sixth sense or predestined death?
Oh my, Yashiro is interested in a lot of boys
Yashiro and Tsukasa's Relationship
YUGI TWINS
The melancholy love of the Yugi twins
Did Tsukasa do this?
Hanako's mental age
I wish I could hear his voice
FINDINGS:
Hanako's boundary
Tsukasa's toys
ASKS:
About Yorishiro 1
Spelling errors and pronouns
Twin stars 1 || Twin stars 2
Tsukasa’s emotions 1 || Tsukasa's emotions 2
Tsukasa's parents
Sumire
Tsukasa's kiss
Hanako's feeling seeing tsukasa for the first time
Nene-chan and I are the same!
Could Hanako have done something to stop Tsukasa's kiss with Nene?
The mysterious hand 1 || The mysterious hand 2
Tsukasa image analysis
Tsukasa's behavior
Who do you think is gonna confess first? Hanako or nene?
Hanako's duty
HANENE:
A post about Hanene
Yashiro's wish and Hanako's self-control
Hanako's cute side
Nene ankles
She was exposed
Does Amane remember?
Hanako and Yashiro's tragic love
Reblog
Hanako-kun's jealous punishment
Hanako's look of desire and love
I still want to see this date, right Aidairo?
The insecurity
Hanene reblog
It was the first time a girl said she liked me, it made me happy…
The active Hanako and the passive Amane
Hanene reblog 2
The moment when Hanako fell in love with Yashiro
Details
But what about Amane and Yashiro's date?
Zombie Hanako and his wish
I know what you did here huh, Aidairo
Hanene reblog 3
This scene
RANDOM:
The invisible ghost
Yashiro Nene priorities
Natsuhiko's love potion
A compilation of jealous Hanako-kun
Tsunene reblog
Tsukasa reblog
Hanako reblog
Yugi twins
Okay, it's cute but
Just a compilation of random Hanene moments
Kou reblog
Just a compilation of random photos of Tsukasa
Just Tsukasa and Mitsuba being happy friends
Amane's Possessiveness reblog
Just a bunch of random photos of two idiots (Kou and Mitsuba)
Just Hanako-kun blushing or embarrassed
Nene and Aoi
A funny detail about the hamsters' space wars
Backstage 1
A tiny Tsukasa trying to put a birthday hat on top of his hat
Just a little ghost and an exorcist boy being best friends
Strangely similar….
"We're the same"
Karma
Hanako and Tsuchigomori
Just Tsukasa having his patience tested
I've been thinking (Tsukasa and Hanako)
151 notes · View notes
barbiegirldream · 3 days ago
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The ending of the Shibuya arc is so fucking funny. Like if it was in any other story right that a character could unleash a godzilla type monster at any point there would probably be long standing talks about why Not to do that. But nah Megumi "with this treasure I summon" Fushiguro looks at the mess that is Shibuya and says well, what's one more? And his only apology in regards to unleashing Mahoraga is that he'll be dying on Yuji. Not on the untold multitudes of people, his worst shikigami is going to crush. It's the craziest most selfish way to go out and it doesn't even kill Megumi and he is really not sorry he did it.
Then on the other side Yuji sees most of this go down via Sukuna. He witnesses the destruction Mahoraga unleashed. He sees Sukuna clearly has a plan to use the 10 Shadows. In any other series the mc would have become concerned for the world ending potential of putting the greatest villain behind the driver's seat of the biggest monster. And running away from Megumi in that context would make perfect sense. Until you get to Yuji's actual reasoning. He's worried about Megumi. Yuji is worried that within the endless slaughter it'll be Megumi that suffers. Yuji agrees to go with Megumi because he's incapable of telling him no. And when the worst comes to worst Yuji is Still only worried that Megumi is in danger.
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lasnevadaslaborunion · 1 day ago
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Okay, finally caught up on the full VOD and here are some messy thoughts
...
So. UHHH. On a gut emotional level, I fucking hated that lmao. Whole chapter of my life finished with a bang and a whimper. Las Nevadas Labor Union is over, y'all. The boss just deny, defend, deposed himself. Holy shit.
On an intellectual, thematic level... I... can't really... argue with that? Like, we didn't actually expect a character that cc!Q explicitly said was inspired by Walter White to receive a happy ending or a functional relationship, did we? We were really high on our copium supply, good grief.
I could, and still might, write a whole meta about how c!Quackity has been passively suicidal with a foreshortened sense of future for a very long time. As far back as Doomsday, he didn't care if he lost his life, as long as he got to watch those who hurt him go down first. He declared so many times that he would die with his country. He was incessantly compared to c!Wilbur, both by other characters and by the narrative itself. He was fucking terrified of being betrayed again, but he always expected it, and moreover did nothing to prevent it. He told c!Foolish and c!Purpled outright that they would have every right to kill him for what he did to them. Didn't even consider making himself immortal with the revival book, instead focusing on making sure c!Dream would no longer have it. Didn't fight back when Slime killed him. Doubled down on his mistakes, and in hindsight rationalized everything as inevitable. Wrested back control the only way he knew how, following another's model. Las Nevadas was a broken institution, built by a man who had given up on fixing anything. His story was always about the self-perpetuating cycle of power and abuse.
This... isn't shocking, unfortunately. If anything, it was too obvious an ending.
I won't go too deep into the OOC implications, because they will make me sound... way more parasocial than I want to be. But I don't think it's controversial to say that the DSMP holds a lot of complicated, difficult, bittersweet memories for many of its former members. It does not surprise me at all that the ending cc!Q chose for his arc was an unhappy one. There are several possible conclusions I would have greatly preferred, but none could have realistically happened without Certain People returning. I wonder how aware the creator was of that, and how much those emotions bled into the writing.
And while I'm... still not certain how I feel about c!Quackity blowing himself up even after being given a second chance (I will always prefer "live and try to do better" à la Bojack Horseman for characters like this), I see the in-universe logic behind it, and everything up to that point was completely in character. Right down to his denial of having ever done the deed, boasting that his enemies deemed him important enough to kill, while ironically taking hollow pride in denying them the chance to take the revenge he so desperately sought for himself, showing no mercy to who he maybe subconsciously believed was his greatest obstacle to true glory... ughhh, c!Quackity makes me so fucking SAD you guys-
Ahem. Anyway. Could he have forgiven himself? Would he have ever accepted the forgiveness of others? Perhaps, perhaps not. In two other lives, those he unknowingly gave a second chance to, he did. q!Quackity went on living for the sake of someone he loved, knowing he, too, was loved. k!Quackity went on living until he found justice, knowing he did not deserve to be wronged. c!Quackity... what other legacy would he have left? Does he know what he truly wanted, before all that fear and hunger for control tainted his heart? Was he content to know someone would remember him with a shred of fondness? That he left a single positive impact? That his life did have a purpose?What if he knew that even some of those with the most reason to hate him still wanted him to be better?
I suppose one might imagine an open-ended resolution, exchanging that last shot of c!Q's last life vanishing with him riding Boner/Ossium away from the explosion and into the sunset to build a better legacy. What would that new legacy look like? I have no idea. I don't think he knows yet, either. But we can pick our favorite based on the day. Time travel is real, and canon is made up. We can do what we want forever now. Enjoy.
...
He's not a fucking gringo, though. c!Quackity is Mexican, importantly so, full fucking stop. Stop infecting him with more Trump particles than he already had. "Oh great, a foreigner" honestly FUCK you Alex. 0/10 for that
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miraculouslbcnreactions · 2 days ago
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What do you think of a Lila character arc in which she learns that actually doing good and making her own visible achievements is more likely to get her better results than lying about her accomplishments and trying to sabotage others to make herself look better in comparison? That is, she figures out that if she really wants to *securely* get ahead in the world in the way that the show portrays her as wanting to rather than getting the 15-minutes-of-fame intervals created by her lies that she has to then keep feeding into, then she has to work WITH people instead of AGAINST them. Note that this is NOT a redemption arc that I’m describing; Lila would still not care at all about others or how they feel outside of direct usefulness to her in this scenario, but she would figure out how to employ her skills in a way that boosts HER up instead of tears OTHERS down (ex. lying and manipulating the reputations of individual people > acting and being an influencer on social media for sponsor brands) as well as how to network better and with WHOM it’s actually worth it to network with in the long run (could’ve seen that drop-of-a-dime betrayal from Gabriel Agreste in “Revelation” from a mile away, just sayin’). Lila would still be vain, vengeful and attention-focused the entire way through, with these being core qualities that don’t change about her, but while learning when to stop putting energy into her spite for someone due to either the actual “slight” against her being small in the grand scheme of things or the untouchability of her target in any way that really matters, as are the cases with Ladybug. In fact, this idea came from those posts that people have made since Season 3 and beyond pointing out two major character plot points of “Volpina” that conflict with common sense in hindsight concerning Lila. 1) After being deakumatized and calming down about the whole situation, Lila should have, while still not liking Ladybug, NOT continued to go after her from this point forward after realizing that Adrien was the only one who saw that whole outing of her lies and wasn’t angry at her for it as well as let her Ladyblog comments fade into obscurity as a safety net once considering how big of a public figure who does tangible good for the public Ladybug is and the reputation risk for little reward it would pose for her to keep talking about the hero at all. 2) If Lila really had done her research on the whole class and was as socially smart as the show wants her to come off as, she should’ve seen Marinette as someone to be “besties” with before her first day at school even started given her public accomplishments and connections up to that point (the sunglasses and album cover for Jagged in the music industry, her parents and great uncle in the food industry, her own merit as an up-and-coming fashion designer whose bowler hat design genuinely impressed Gabriel Agreste, who is known to not be impressed with or humor things he views as a waste of time as with Simon Says, etc.) the same way she did with Alya and the Ladyblog. Whether she still clings to Adrien given he’s still open to being friends with her as long as she stops lying (which she’s already resolved to do about Ladybug at minimum at this point) or she still gets annoyed with him trying to “lecture” her and decides he’s not worth the annoyance of putting up with over her two intended “besties” (Marinette and Lila wouldn’t be clashing since Lila would be trying to come up with a new game plan for school instead of lying now that Adrien’s aware of her and Marinette would still feel apologetic from the ending of “Volpina”) is up to preference, but I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on all of this regardless.
There's a lot here, so I'm going to start this post by stating what I think you're saying so that you know where I'm coming from in my answer in case I'm totally off base. The argument appears to be that a social climber (?) like Lila should have an arc where she learns that lies can only get her so far and that she's better off trying to make as many real connections as she can. The lies won't totally stop, but lying should become a last resort for her. I fully agree with that analysis. It's one of the many issues with Lila's writing. In the majority of the show, she is written like a compulsive liar and not like a clever manipulator.
A lot of the problem comes down to Lila's total lack of motivation. We don't know what her goals are and it feels like the writers don't either. It's why I put a question mark next to "social climber" in the last paragraph. I don't know if that's actually why she is! That makes her incredibly hard to write well.
When Lila's introduced, it comes across like she just wants to be seen as cool by her classmates. As the show goes on, that continues, but we also get this sense that she wants greater power of some kind and has some sort of master plan going on. Those are clashing behaviors. The kind of lies she tells at school are far too risky for someone with a grand plan. They put her at far too much risk of being outed.
For example, if she is actively manipulating a bunch of women into thinking that they're her mother, then why tell her classmates that she was out of town working for a charity with a well-known public figure like she did in Catalyst? That puts her at risk for a call home or even just having someone meet one of the mothers and mentioning the trip, which would make said mother start asking questions. Lila should be doing everything in her power to keep that from happening. She should want to blend in, not stand out. Canon even shows us how easily her lies would be outed if anyone other than Marinette cared to do basic fact checking:
Lila: (Waves) Hello, everyone! Miss Bustier's class: Hi Lila! Miss Bustier: We can't wait to hear what you've been doing since our last video chat. Tell us about your week in the Kingdom of Achu. Lila: It's absolutely amazing! Prince Ali invited me and my parents to his gorgeous palace. Marinette: Excuse me, Lila, but Prince Ali couldn't possibly have invited you because he is in the United States. Lila: (Laughs) I never said he was actually there, Marinette. I just said he invited us, that's all. His parents organized the visit- Marinette: She's lying, and I'll expose her for the fake that she is. Alya: Oh no, Marinette, not that again. She's not a liar. You're just jealous of Lila because she tried to hit on Adrien.
There is no point to this lie and it actively undermines Lila's character. This lie makes it look like she has no master plan and just lies compulsively for the thrill of it. The kind of character who tells lies like this one would not be capable of setting up multiple fake identities.
If you want to make Lila a master manipulator, then she needs to be written like she was in Oni-chan, which is one of the rare episodes where canon wrote her well:
Lila: What's the worst grade you've ever gotten? Adrien: An A- in math. Listen, Lila, you should forget about this. My father can be harsh with anyone he thinks is an intruder. Lila: (laughs) We're not doing anything wrong. Leave this to me. [Scene change to front the the mansion] Nathalie: I'm sorry, Adrien, but you know your father- Lila: Excuse me, ma'am. But is there any way I could ask him directly? Just in case. Nathalie: Mr. Agreste is busy designing and must not be disturbed for any reason. Adrien: I told you so. Lila: Oh, Adrien. I so wanted to help you make up all the schoolwork you missed due to all the modeling you've been doing lately. What will your father think if he finds out about your lower grades, Adrien? Who will he believe? Nathalie: Adrien, have your grades gone down? Lila: He’d never tell you himself up when I saw Adrien crying the other day because he only got an A-, I just felt like I had to offer him my help. I would’ve taken half an hour. (Nathalie raises her eyebrow at her) I understand. You’re only doing what you think is best. I did what I could, Adrien. Good luck. Nathalie: If it's only half an hour...
Lila is still a little too much here, but this is a kids show, so it makes sense to play up the lies a bit. With that context in mind, this is close enough to quality manipulation that I would feel like I was being a total nitpick if I complained about everyone being too gullible and Lila being a bad liar. Instead, I'm going to praise this writing. This is how she should have always been written. Minor lies used to get her connections or to manipulate her connections, but as much truth as she can manage to keep herself from being outed. Every lie should have a purpose and be carefully thought out. That's how manipulators work.
The Ladybug thing you brought up is another problem. If Lila's goal is manipulation, then she absolutely should have "forgiven" Ladybug and pretended to change. The lines she gives are those of a petty brat, not an evil mastermind:
Ladybug: I... totally overreacted and... never should've spoken to you like that. I'm sorry. Lila: Forget it, Ladybug; you were right. We'll never be friends. 
While I hate the writing in Volpina, making Marinette feel guilty for confronting Lila could have been an excellent setup for Lila gaining power. If Lila went on to make the appearance of changing her behavior and Marinette believed that Lila was sorry, then you could have used Volpina as a semi-clumsy, but ultimately functional setup for Lila being a liar in the audience's eyes, but not in the eyes of the cast. Instead, Lila is enemies with both Ladybug and Marinette, which is the least interesting way to play this on every level.
As you rightly pointed out, Marinette has connections. Lila should want to be Marinette's friend! It would be far more interesting if Marinette trusted Lila and Lila was cool with Marinette while hating Ladybug. That's how identity shenanigan setups are supposed to function! It's not supposed to be just about the romance unless it's short form content. Imagine if the show had let Lila and Marinette have a cool dynamic too. It could lead to all sorts of interesting situations like Marinette picking Lila as a temp hero!
But, as always, that style of writing does not work in an episodic show and it definitely doesn't work in a formula show. Lila is simply a terrible pick for Miraculous at a fundamental, structural level and I have no idea how anyone is excited about her being the new main villain.
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pali-and-proud · 2 days ago
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Would Buddy hurt anyone? Why was Buddy shocked when he hurt Chase with the spear? AND WHY THE COMPLETE DIFFERENCE WITH THE SPEAR AND DEACON WITH THE WOLVES?!?
I GET TO TALK ABOUT BUDDY AND DEACON. AHAHA.
Thank you for the Q <3 I love and respect you, but I am going to bypass the first two questions because I am filled with thoughts on Buddy and Deacon's dynamic. Because I don't know if more people noticed (I'm 100% sure others have noticed) but Buddy and Deacon absolutely parallel each other.
What's Buddy's big motivator, as established by the Dreams By Night episode? To escape Ex Libris. To be free, essentially.
What's Deacon's big motivator, as established by The Book of Deacon? To lead his own story, without his parents controlling everything. To be free, essentially.
Buddy, from the beginning, harps on Chase's lack of preparation. Deacon, from the beginning, gripes about Chase's lack of preparation. Deacon over-prepares, to the point where Chase asks him what different scenes mean and what happens in the story. Something he used to do with Buddy, because both Deacon and Buddy indulge Chase in their explanations.
Deacon gets caught off-guard by Chase's perceptiveness, and Buddy gets caught off-guard by Chase's personality. And Chase might gripe about both, sure, but often about superficial, irrelevant details. Complaining about Deacon always being busy, or complaining about Buddy being pretentious. (Not about things of substance, like Deacon having enough money to attend college AND disliking the experience, or about not even knowing Buddy's name.)
We all laugh about Buddy being paranoid, but Deacon matches him pretty well. Deacon isn't spilling any names. Deacon, like Buddy, understands the necessity for secrets. Who makes the plans to hide Prunella? Who keeps telling Chase not to talk to Buddy about her?
(A thought for another time, but--something about kids of strict parents being sneakier, and something about Deacon always convincing Chase into keeping secrets.)
Deacon's being reasonable, and we know that, because we're listening to his reasoning, and his reasoning is nothing like Buddy's. (Buddy's all "EVERYONE is out for themself," while Deacon is a lot more subtly judging the shirtless Hot Topic wanna-be.) But their ACTIONS match each other.
Are they the same character? lmao absolutely not. They have different experiences, different mentalities, different perspectives. Deacon has a support system, whether financial (parents) or emotional (Bronze) or even social (Chase). Buddy has a bright eyed, stubborn kid who sees a vampire and somehow therapizes him, and sees someone covered in thorns and reciprocates their hug because he knows it was needed.
But how similar they are really shines in the Requiem arc. Deacon and Buddy match the other's barbs seemlessly, and they call out the other with ease. Deacon insults Buddy's fashion sense + teeth, Buddy tricks Deacon into nearly getting mauled by wolves, which is probably an escalation, and Deacon immediately starts plotting a revenge. "When I get my hands on him," he outright says, implying some retaliation, and yet he sees Buddy and Chase wrestling a vampire to the ground and immediately asks "What're we doing?"
He immediately joins them. He has no idea what they're doing or why they're doing it, but they're doing it, so he alas has to ascribe to it. And then you remember that Chase is the one who jumped Vamp, and Buddy ALSO has no idea what they're doing or why they're doing it, but Chase's doing it, so he alas has to ascribe.
They get each other, is what I'm saying. They're foils in methods (Deacon annoys Buddy verbally, Buddy annoys Deacon physically////Deacon chooses to maintain peace via secrecy, Buddy prefers honest communication despite the impacts/////etc etc etc) but they're mirroring the other. They're two beams of light, coming from the same source, going in completely opposite directions.
Buddy hurting Chase risked everything Buddy had gained, all the trust and the companionship and the grossly genuine friendship he gained. The physical pain risked ripping the emotional connection between them. Buddy hurting Deacon DOESN'T rip open anything, because however far Buddy takes things, Deacon's prepared to follow out of annoyance and spite alone. They have the same priorities: keep themselves (+ Chase/others) safe, and humble the other when necessary.
And Buddy has an embarrassing crush or something. everyone point at the idiot and laugh
#cinderella boy#cinderella boy webtoon#chase hollow#stargoth#buddy#buddy cinderella boy#i think if i said anything about Buddy hurting people#the fastpassers would hunt me down#so I will say idk! i think it depends on the situation and how desperate he is#(buddy was shocked by the spear bc he didn't mean to hurt Chase! which is fascinating for so many reasons; our guy is ALL bark)#(and likely doesnt WANT to hurt people so i sense an angsty plot point coming up)#BUT BACK TO BUDDY AND DEACON#You thought i was done??? sit down babes lets talk character design#Deacon is dressed like a standard nerd#And Buddy is originally in all dark clothes and described as gothy#Yet Deacon doesn't really like a lot of stem classes and who can blame him physics needs to die this is a hill ill be buried on#And Buddy LOVES expensive-looking complex outfits and snorts when he laughs and genuinely likes people petting his hair#they look like complete opposite characters#but their character design is only a FACET of who they are#and i stare so pointedly at what i said about both wanting to be free#and how theyre both actively trying to break the mold SOMEONE ELSE put them in#but again#using completely different methods#one is trying to figure out how to break away from his parents without actually causing riffs#and one is trying to figure out how to break away from Ex Libris probably fastpassers figure out the rest idk#whatever made yall lose ur minds in the finale fill in there#long post#again#at this point yall know i cant shut up#anyway THANK YOU FOR THE Q!
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karmanun · 18 hours ago
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Isha: A writer’s musings
Tw mentions of suicidal ideation, depression
Maybe a little late to the conversation, but you’ve mentioned in a couple of your others posts that Isha somewhat puzzles you, so I wanted to share my two cents, because Isha confused the hell out of me at first two.
I have always been a fan of the idea of Jinx becoming a parent/parental figure with Lux just because of how important a theme parenthood is in her story, there has always been something incredibly poetic about it all coming full circle, so while I was certainly intrigued to see Jinx actually depicted in a parental/older sibling role in S2, it sort of felt like it was happening too quickly? Like, shouldn’t Jinx have more time to grow and figure herself out a little before being a role model, especially to such a young girl?
However, the more a thought about it the more I realized what a genius move it was. Many people picked up on how Isha heals Jinx’s inner child - she even says it herself:
- “I had a different name back then you know. Powder. Stupid, right? I thought I was rid of her for good, but… you kind of remind me of her.”
But it’s more than that. Jinx is simultaneously coming to accept her role as a symbol to the Zaunites (a role which makes perfect sense: Vander kept the peace but also upheld the status quo, Silco furthered the movement but walked all over the very people he claimed he wanted to free to do it, Jinx was the first person to actually make a move) but it’s a struggle for her. Jinx has never been a “big picture” person - while I have no doubt that she believes in the cause, given everything Piltover took from her, she operates mainly off of emotional reponses and impulses. Her world is limited to her inner circle of family and she has trouble empathizing with anyone outside of it. She was already someone who was driven by personal connection. Throw in severe suicidal ideation and naturally she needs more than simply a grand cause to accept her role as a symbol.
Isha fulfills that missing piece. She is the personal connection Jinx needed to drive her towards something new. Jinx wouldn’t have cared about being Zaun’s hero, but the fact that she is Isha’s hero is what convinces her that there might be something to it.
“Is there anything so undoing as a daughter?”
Boom, I have the character figured out!
Except…
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What in the cheezits frick was this about???
Now, from a storytelling perspective: do I think Isha’s death was necessary? Of course not. Do I think it was worthless? Also no.
To figure out what is going on here, let’s back up and explain what S2 was doing with Jinx (because although Isha is my precious baby gremlin with an explosive personality and I love her, from a writing perspective she is primarily a narrative device for Jinx’s arc). My take is:
If Jinx’s arc in Season 1 is about accepting that she is “Jinx” ie she can never go back to the girl she was before, then her Season 2 arc is about learning that “Jinx” can mean whatever she wants it to mean. She gets to decide what that means, no one else. As we discussed above, Isha is the one who truly helps her to understand that - this little girl who never knew Powder, only Jinx, and still sees a hero, a friend, family in her - helps her see she can be more than the destructive force of chaos Silco told her was perfect.
So when Isha died and Jinx fell back into depression and suicidal ideation, it sort of seemed like it was all for nothing - like the lessons she learned through Isha were lost, and that having Ekko replace Isha as the one who helps her accept her new identity was, as you put it, “shipping wish fulfillment”. However, I slowly came to realize that just wasn’t true.
youtube
As somewhat of a side note, this video really helped me understand what was going on with the Ep. 9 opening, the AU, and Ekko’s character arc in general. The basic gist of it is that he redefines his views on the potential of the present (something the Z-Drive is symbolic of) and therefore of Jinx’s potential. After Isha’s death Jinx falls back into her old, dark mental state, but not because Isha’s lesson is lost: because that is a human response to such a horrible tragedy, and frankly I commend the writers on not shying away from that.
My interpretation of Jinx and Ekko’s interaction in Ep. 9 isn’t that he’s able to pull her back from the brink because he’s her savior or because they’re just so in love, but because the fact that even the very person who gave up on her, spent years despising her, and tried to kill her multiple times (for justified reasons) was able to redefine the way her saw her was a jarring reminder that Isha’s lesson was not, in fact, lost - that there is still more to her than just a jinx.
I think that’s why Jinx chooses to live. I think that’s why she chooses to break the cycle not by killing herself but by taking a chance on something new. Ekko being able to change the way he saw her, enough to take a chance on the good she could still do, was the final nail in the coffin that was her journey of self-growth Isha led her on. Just because Isha was gone didn’t mean the person she saw in Jinx also had to be.
Now, I don’t think Isha had to die for Jinx’s arc to reach this same conclusion. They were very clearly careening towards it anyway. I can’t say for sure why the writers chose to go down that route (other than the obvious answer that they love to torment us) but I still believe they got something powerful out of it.
Jinx chooses to live, for her little girl.
Jinx's mental health musings, again.
I think calling a severely traumatized person struggling with mental illness 'broken' or a 'monster' is part of the problem, no matter how violently she's lashing out at the world. So many people in Jinx's life wrote her off as 'broken' 'monster' 'too far gone', and that just made it worse for her at every point.
Vi and Ekko just wanted Powder back, so hard they each were literally ready to murder her until some reminder of her 'Powder' side stopped them, and Silco leaned into enabling her 'Jinx' persona, and all that did was force her to choose between two parts of her psyche mostly constructed by other people's expectations, instead of reconciling with herself.
It took until the very end of S3 and a whole jaunt into another timeline and a romance with an AU version of his childhood crush for Ekko to see that maybe he shouldn't have written her off.
The only people who loved her unconditionally were Isha and Vander... ...and arguably Sevika, in a grumpy auntie who sort of wants you to lead a rebellion for her kind of way. Even AU Powder is hiding her trauma from losing Vi and stifling her own genius to please others and be their support girl. It's no surprise that Jinx is at her most healed, authentic and whole when she is with Isha.
She still had a long way to go, but that was when she felt the most 'complete' to me. She was healing herself on her own steam, taking her own steps to reach out to her sister and reunite with her father. To become the hero, not just for the kiddo who looked up to her, but for herself as well.
The writers taking that away from her just so Amanda could have her shipping wish fulfillment plot will burn in me forever.
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kacievvbbbb · 4 months ago
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I think it’s interesting how as time goes on Zoro kind of becomes more and more like mihawk in some ways whether that’s just because if you spend time with someone for 2 years you’re bound to pick up their habits or a deliberate attempt to emulate him is a conversation for another time. And Mihawk and Zoro where already pretty similar at the start so it’s a little hard to notice now.
But yeah whether unconsciously or consciously Zoro is becoming a bit more like Mihawk and it’s interesting to think that while this means maturing in some ways (he’s swordsmanship for one but he’s also just quieter much more assured of himself) it also means deaging in some others.
Despite their significant age gap and general dispositions, when it comes down to it Zoro is just a lot more emotionally mature and developed than Mihawk is. And a big part of why is because he found something larger than himself to devote his life too, hell Mihawk himself even kind of acknowledges this when he agrees to take Zoro on as a student when Zoro begs for the sake of his captain and crew. He acknowledges that putting aside his own ego and dreams for the sake of someone else isn’t something he can do and sees it as a fault in himself and a strength in Zoro.
Mihawk may be outwardly mature and his skills defiently did not stagnant but I’d wager that Mentally Mihawk is still stuck at the same age he was when he took over the title of world’s strongest swordsman. Honestly maybe even younger. And it isn’t until training Zoro, letting Perona stay with him, for probably the first time in his life taking charge of lives outside his own did he finally unarrest his development.
If Zoro is purposely trying to emulate Hawkeyes, which it wouldn’t be a surprise if he was that’s who he’s trying to be Afterall, then it would honestly set him back emotionally because fundamentally as he is now Mihawk’s attitude doesn’t work in a crew. It’s too singular, too abrasive. And while that abrasiveness can be useful in Zoro’s role as Luffy’s first mate sometimes it makes him a little too callous a little too apathetic, like with his disregard for Luffy’s sadness over vegapunk.
But Zoro has his crew to temper that, they are honestly just too ridiculous to ever stay serious around. And try as he might to hide it Zoro is also just a silly dude who likes to be horrifically petty with his opponents. And zoro still has so much fire in him, so much he has too prove and so much he wants to protect to ever really fall into Mihawk’s apathy. Zoro has Luffy who even after they reach their dreams will probably still continue to turn the world upside down forever keeping Zoro in some kind of trouble and his life interesting.
Zoro can’t be Mihawk because even Mihawk can’t be Mihawk anymore. Being with crossguild and crossing with the Red hair pirates and the strawhats is going to change him, it has too. if Mihawk is going to live after losing his title he’s probably gonna have to become a little bit more like Zoro.
#can you tell how much I like the phrase arrested development#mihawk is essentially mentally still a teenager and honestly that tracks#in psychology terms he never developed his super ego#everytime I write a long post I’m so scared that I didn’t make any point at all and it’s just a bunch of jumbled nonsense and half points#so I hope this made sense 😭#zoro and Mihawk are great they are so alike yet the little differences matter so much#don’t you just hate when people say Zoro has no character arc?#they aren’t even two sides of the same coin they are literally just Son learning from the mistakes of his father#I can’t lie before I really got into timeskip I also thought the changes in zoro was just Oda choosing to rewrite him diffenrtky more badas#I also missed the loud smiling and laughing zoro but the truth is that he’s still there#and maybe it is just Oda deciding to make Zoro cooler but it’s honestly so in line with who he already was and makes so much sense given#who he was training with that it still works as character development#zoro can still be loud and silly and maybe his digs are not said instead of screamed and maybe his smiles are a little meaner instead of#genuine and maybe he doesn’t laugh out loud anymore but honestly sometimes thats part of growing up#Zoro is the way he is so Luffy can be who he is that’s why they work. somebody’s got to take it seriously#somebody’s got to feel the weight of being an emperor’s crew. might as well be Zoro#one piece#throwing thoughts to the void#zoro appreciation post#dracule mihawk#hawkeye mihawk#roronoa zoro#zoro#character analysis#one piece meta#goth fam#goth family#one piece goth family#the strawhats#strawhat pirates
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brionysea · 1 month ago
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I know it's just the inverse of their s1 dynamic where jinx resents caitlyn's very existence while caitlyn routinely forgets that jinx exists, and cait then declaring jinx her mortal enemy while jinx easily evades her little fan club that's tearing the undercity apart looking for her and generally doesn't care IS very funny. but man what do you mean jinx and caitlyn didn't even get to beat the crap out of each other. what about women's wrongs
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pinacoladamatata · 6 months ago
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Man like. I really hope the theories about 'redeeming Solas' ending being to die/mirror his friend wisdom where he dies but will eventually get respawned as a 'new' him, aren't true. Because ngl that's. A very unappealing ending imo. Like that isn't worth the 10 year wait at all.
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