#but tim is nine years younger than dick

[farshootergotme]

I don't hate Tim Drake, but the part of me that's creating its own DC timeline despises him with fervor.

[jaybirdstab]

I find the idea of Dick just being so much older than the other batkids so funny. Like if he stops being Robin at sixteen or seventeen and Bruce brings in a nine or ten year old Jason and for a while thats their dynamic. College bro and fifth grade baby bro. Thats so funny to me. Or like Jason big and buff and scary and gives off twenty something vibes and Tim and Steph forget that he’s literally a little over a year older than both of them. Or arguments between Cass and Jay about who is older and Cass just claims herself as Big Sister for no reason other than because she wants too.

Just old Dick and Babs with siblings nearly a decade or more younger than them. I think thats funny.

[webshood]

please give your thoughts on the rest of the top 10 worst tropes in batfam fanon ! 🙏🙏 jason being tims caregiver is so ickyyyy

Top 10 worst tropes in the batfam fandom:

1 • Fanon Tim Drake

I'm not even the biggest Tim Drake fan, but that's not him. Y'all slapped Tim's name and parents (sometimes) on a random white boy (or a hyper feminine asian guy) and called it a day, he was never left alone at the Drake manor, his physical needs were always meet at his boarding school, he never had to make do with a can of pasta and a birthday candle, he never had to be homeless, he never went out at night on the rooftops of Gotham to take photos of Batman and Robin, Jason wasn't his Robin. His parents may be emotionally neglectful, but they never feed him food he was allergic to and made him go into anaphylactic shock. He's not a coffee addict, uwu bottom who had to do honeypot missions. Don't even get me started on how weird it is the increase of asian Tim headcanons/fancasts/face claims after he became canonically bi. (asian artists/creators not included)

2 • Cheater/Slut Dick Grayson

I'm all for characters being sexually liberated, but having the rroma character, which is a ethnicity not well perceived and sexualized to the nines, be the one who always cheats on his partners and can't keep his legs closed, who always just has to go do the undercover stripper or sex worker job, reducing his intelligence and personality just to have him act as a bimbo boytoy who's only personality traits is his butt and cocaine, like... It's giving racism babes

3 • Infantilized Cassandra Cain

Cass is a adult woman with a learning disability, not a five year old child, it's hard for people to even write Cass that much, but when they do it's so full of stereotypes that makes me gag, having her only use sign language is a small mercy from having her articulate words like a toddler and having the other characters coddle and act like she doesn't have the mental capacity to function in society when she's such a complex character, who, despite her lack of academic knowledge knows so much about people and compassion, it's lazy writing

4 • Caretaker Jason Todd

Kinda wild to have the guy who spent a good chunk of his life looking after his sick addict mother become the caretaker of a guy who's *checks notes* barely three years younger (Jason spent one year catatonic, so it's arguably) than him and just couldn't look after himself bc he *checks notes again* neglects his own body's needs bc he's a dumbass, like, oh but it's not little Timmy's fault, he has been born with glass bones and paper skin, every morning he breaks his legs and every afternoon he breaks his arms, every night he stays awake on his bed in agony, until his coffee induced heart attack puts him to sleep.

To be continued, I'mma write the rest later bc I'm sleepy asf rn

[fanfic-obsessed]

Smitten

I had this idea for a JayTim that I want to share. 

Obviously there is no canon here, for the record. 

In addition we have a version of Jack and Janet Drake that do love their son, they just have a really bad grasp on age appropriate supervision and activities. They honestly believe that a nine year old can be left alone with only a periodic check from a housekeeper (Also they are aware that Tim leaves the premises almost every night with a camera, they also believe this is a reasonable activity).  Like the very embodiment ‘they’re confused, but they got spirit’. Believe me when I say this will be relevant later.

We are also bringing Jason and Tim’s ages just a hair closer together. This starts with Jason being 14 and Tim being 13, at the annual holiday Wanye Gala. This particular time Jack, Janet, and Tim are in attendance. 

It starts with some boorish rich asshole, a little too drunk and being stupid about it, making an insulting comment about Janet Drake, heard by Tim. Now Tim loves his mother, and does not appreciate this man who insulted her. 

Thirteen year old Tim verbally eviscerates this man, his voice an icy even tone that everyone around recognized from Tim’s mother Janet. Tim’s diatribe of insults and threats leverages this man's secrets, his fears, and insecurities that he didn't even realize he had.  Ten minutes in, this man begins to cry. Just the complete, public, destruction of a middle aged rich drunk by a tiny thirteen year old.  The Drake family proceeds to exit after Tim winds down, never looking back (it was later in the evening anyway).

Jason, standing off to one side next to Dick, falls immediately and completely in love. Smitten through and through.  The first words out of his mouth, after the Drakes leave, is ‘We’re going to get married on that boy’s 18th birthday’.  This was heard by just about everyone present. Jason did not even know Tim’s name yet.

By the next morning Jason has used the BatComputer to discover that his future spouse is named Timothy Drake, he lives next door, and that he is 14 months younger than Jason.  At breakfast Jason very seriously, though a touch maniacally, tells Bruce that he would be marrying Tim when Tim turned 18, and that before that point they would be telling Tim about their ‘nightlife’ on the grounds that “we should not start our marriage off with secrets”. Jason magnanimously told Bruce that he had until Tim was 17 to get his feelings under control about the reveal (to give a full year before the wedding, in case Tim needed an adjustment period or Jason needed to win him back).  

Bruce is already very tired. 

Jason finds any occasion to seek out Tim Drake, to get to know his future spouse (the entire time Jason Mantra-having gotten some good advice from Alfred about becoming friends with and maybe dating Tim before anything else-is ‘Don’t start talking about the wedding, don’t start talking about the wedding’). Also every piece of romantic knowledge/flirting knowledge that Jason has comes from the regency era/Victorian era romances he reads. 

Tim, for his part, believes that Jason (Tim’s Robin and crush) has figured out that Tim knows Robin’s identity and is trying to subtly figure out how much Tim knows and what he is going to do about it; but for some reason Jason is not asking directly and Tim is enjoying getting closer to the other boy, so he does not admit to what he knows. 

This leads to some painfully stilted conversations and weird interactions, but every so often both will forget to be awkward and it becomes clear, whenever they actually act naturally, that they are very well matched. 

To the Gotham Elites, this is the best entertainment in years. Between Bruce Wayne’s ‘Brucie’ act and Dick’s feral behavior growing up, Jason’s bookish politeness makes him the ‘best behaved’ Wayne and honestly the most well liked one. Combined that with how sweet he is acting with Tim and  that this all started with Tim defending his mother, well this is the love story of the ages, happening right in front of them. 

Bruce and the Drakes are already fielding requests for invitations to the wedding. On a slightly more creepy note they are also receiving offers to be a surrogate for the boy’s to ‘continue the bloodline’ when the time comes. 

Bruce is honestly wondering if everyone forgot that Jason is adopted. Dick comes to Gotham more often, because he is also finding this immensely entertaining. 

A few months in, this leads to Batman, Nightwing, and Robin finding Tim taking pictures on a rooftop in the Bowery.  In Tim’s rush to apologize (he is starting to feel a bit guilty about his picture taking pictures of the Bats now that he has an actual relationship-where he believes that they know he knows who they are-instead of a parasocial relationship) it becomes clear that Tim knows their civilian identities and that they did not know that Tim knew their civilian identities. 

Tim gives his explanation (a quadruple flip that only a few people in the world can do and connecting the dots from there). Jason immediately blurts out ‘Go on a date with me?’ and is quite proud that he kept the ‘Marry me?’ behind his teeth (The earliest they could get married in New Jersey is 17, and only with parental consent. Jason had 4 years to convince the Drakes to let him marry their son, 5 if they don’t like him). Tim turns bright red and squeaks out a ‘Yes’. 

The next gala they enter holding hands.  Dick is quickly sought after by the Elite for gossip. Dick confirms that Tim and Jason are now dating, and that Jason insisted on a chaperone for their dates (Jason is still working off the regency/victorian era romantic relationships) so that nothing would ‘besmirch Tim’s honor’.  There is an entire crowd of cooing Gothamites around Dick as they discuss how these two got even more adorable, all the while watching Jason and Tim surreptitiously. 

At some point Bruce has to have a very surreal conversation with Jack and Janet Drake about when it is appropriate to leave one's children alone and for how long and at what ages. Jack and Janet, upon being convinced that they should not leave their 13 year old alone for weeks or months at a time, rearrange their future plans so that one of them is almost always home (and on the few occasions that they would have to Tim by himself, Tim would stay with the Waynes).

By the way, Jack and Janet love Jason, they can see how much he makes their son happy and are glad to support the relationship.  

Now I see this continuing one of two ways. 

The first way is that this derails Ethiopia. Jason still fights with Batman, but runs to Janet Drake (who is home) and Tim.  He does not discover that Catherine is not his mother until later, but is not missing parental influences and does some digging but does not go to meet Sheila. Tim becomes Oracle’s apprentice.

Alternately, it does not derail Ethiopia. Janet and Jack, on one of the few business trips that required both of them, is woken up by a call from an inconsolable Tim who tells them Jason has been killed by the Joker (both Jack and Janet having been let in on the secret at some point). Janet immediately hires Deathstroke and Talia Al Ghul to kill the Joker (Janet contemplated having them bring the Joker to her, so she could do it and make sure he understood why-he killed her future son in law and made her son cry- but realized that the why would never actually matter to Joker) and paid extra to make it look like natural causes (to lessen the attention on the bastard).  Two weeks after Jason Todd’s funeral, the Joker dropped dead of an apparent heart attack, there was not even enough time to get him back in Arkham. 

The Gotham Elite treat Tim like a bereaved widow, despite Jason never getting to have the ‘let’s get married when we are old enough’ talk with him. Jack Drake gets to have his own surreal talk with Bruce Wayne about accepting help, and therapy, after Jason’s death.  Tim picks up the Robin mantle to feel closer to Jason, and to distract himself from grief. 

Jason (Now 17) is brought back and Talia does find him. In this she does have good intentions (She knows that Damian is going to need to be sent to his father eventually, and hopes that helping Jason will endear Talia to Bruce enough that she can still see her son), plus a connection to Janet Drake and the knowledge that Janet had the Joker killed for Jason. So as soon as Jason’s madness ebbs enough to travel she brings him straight to Janet Drake's door. By then enough time has passed that it is three days before Tim’s 17th birthday.   

Jante takes one look at Jason and goes ‘Hmm, I was wondering what we were getting Tim for his birthday this year’.

[dcxdpdabbles]

Why did Tim confuse Danny with Dick?

Do you mean the one chat where Tim confront Danny saying "I know who you are?"

If so, the idea behind that one was that Tim mistook Danny for Robin from the verry beginning. As in when he was nine he saw Danny do the flip (I orginally had it that he saw Danny trying to impress Paulina on a school trip to Gotham University which is why he was doing stupid flips in the parking lot but I couldn't think of how to connect Danny and Bruce together from that so i never wrote out the idea) and went "That's Robin!!!!" Since the night before, he saw Robin do the very same move.

Now Tim is roughly seven years younger than Dick (from the comics I've consumed, but my knowledge of DC is mostly moives) so that would make Dick about sixteen.

In this au Dick and Danny are the same age. Which doesn't help Tim's misunderstanding especially since both are blue eyed and dark hair, with slightly brown skin.

They aren't related. They just look very alike, and that's a gaint coincidence. The thing was Tim just went about thinking the orginal Robin's identity was Danny Fenton.

He got Bruce and Jason correct but always assumed that Dick Grayson was unaware of what his Foster dad and Foster brother got up to.

At one point, Tim also thinks this was why Dick was just a ward and not adopted like Jason.

So he never bothers to go to Dick when Jason died. He went to what he assumed was the first Robin - Danny.

Danny himself was retired and attending Gotham U when the little boy (I think he was 13 when Tim became Robin in canon? But to Danny, anyone under 16 is the same as being five. ) came knocking on his door, accusing him of being Robin. He decides that Tim will likely either go through on his threat to expose Batman or try to be Robin himself.

He knows what it's like to be pushed into a hero role at that age, and Tim looks so small with a brain that's too big. Danny knows Tim will be hurt if he's out on the feild - either physically or mentally or even emotionally.

He hates seeing kids hurt even if he is retired and won't ignore the danger Tim is about to put himself in.

After a quick call with Jazz, he decides not to tell Tim the truth (that he was wrong, Danny isn't the organal, Robin) and steps up to help Bruce get his shit together.

Again, though, this was an idea I never flushed out, so there are plots holes like How did Tim get Bruce being batman if he had the wrong Robin? Did Danny live in Gotham since he was 16, or was he back in Amity Park after the field trip? How did Tim keep tabs on Danny if he wasn't? How did Robin keep appearing in Gotham if he thought Danny was in Amity Park? Did Tim never catch Dick slip up afterward while on the field? Who did he think Nightwing was? How did Bruce handle the random man showing up pretending to be Dick? Where is Dick?

To Many questions that I did not have the answers to.

So yeah, that's what that was about, lol.

[captainkirkk]

✩ WEEKLY FIC ROUND-UP ✩

All the fics I’ve read and really enjoyed in the past week-ish. Reminder: This list features any and all ratings and themes. Please look at tags and warnings on ao3 before reading.

BNHA

something else to pretend by beeclaws

Bakugou apologies. Somehow, this makes things worse.

Retrograde by redrobin1989

Retrograde /ˈretrəˌɡrād/ adjective: directed or moving backwards noun: a degenerate person. verb: go back in position or time.

Seasoned pro heroes Midoriya Izuku and Bakugou Katsuki are mentally transported back to their younger bodies due to a quirk. All they have to do is wait for the quirk to wear off for everything to return to normal. But sometimes the journey is worse than the destination.

DC

dick move by konan_konan

Part 1 of batfam twitter shenanigans

dim trake ☑ @timdrakeceo・52min guys what if dick grayson IS batman. that’s why he thought he was getting cancelled. it all makes sense. 784K Views | 142 Retweets | 52 Quote Tweets | 63.9K Likes

tason jodd ☑ @jsntdd・49min ↳ replying to @timdrakeceo asshole last week you said i was batman 461K Views | 88 Retweets | 16 Quote Tweets | 18.3K Likes

or: a civilian overhears a conversation between batman and nightwing. twitter does what it always does: makes things worse

the rules of playing make believe by hoebiwan

“We can’t squat in some dead guy’s mansion, Damian,” Tim says. Damian, in the midst of packing all their meager belongings into grocery sacks, ignores him.

“Why not?” Jason demands. “It’s not like he’s using it. Finders keepers, losers weepers.”

Or: Homeless!Reverse Robins squat in Wayne Manor.

Nine Worlds

with a winged heart by celebros

"Cliopher. Cliopher. Cliopher." I blink. It's Conju, standing with his hands on my shoulders, and I go to answer him and realize that I am already speaking, babbling, and Franzel is behind him, wringing his hands and looking near tears. I try to focus on what I'm saying, but it's like a stream, light and splashing past me, too quick to hold, not enough to catch, somehow, somehow – A few weeks before the start of the viceroyship ceremonies, Kip finds himself the unwitting recipient of a truth serum.

Original Work

That Frightful Nest Inside the Throat by whereveryouroam

Part 1 of That Dreadful Clockwork Beats Below

Living horses were in vogue among the high and mighty of the great families, but Peter’s new owners had sent proud motorhorses, clicking over in a blur of cogs and wheels, to draw the carriage. It was a very nice carriage - plush and cushioned. He couldn’t help but think this was sinister. Masters didn’t transport slaves in finery. At least, not slaves like him.

Peter’s spent years under the cruelty of masters who want the Monster inside him to become their weapon. He is quite sure that Lord and Lady Arken will be no different.

Percy Jackson

Through rose-colored glasses (the past is perfect) by Mo13

Part 1 of Rose-colored glasses verse

Luke/Percy were in a non-consensual 'relationship' when Percy was twelve. Percy deals with the aftermath, while constantly convincing himself that his relationship with Luke was fine (IT WAS NOT). Mostly cooperates with canon up to the end of Heroes of Olympus.

The Goblin Emperor

A Complete Education by bomberqueen17

Preparing for the Emperor's wedding, everyone has some things they need to learn about.

Emperor's Best Friend by imaginary_golux

Ino and Mireän decide their cousin Maia needs a special present for his twentieth birthday.

a burning coal of kindness by egelantier for Morgan (duckwhatduck)

When Maia is kidnapped by a faction hoping to halt the construction of Wisdom Bridge, Beshelar, gravely injured, is by his side. It might just be their undoing.

The Stairs Beneath the Heart by hermitknut

Part 1 of Keystone

The reign of Varenechibal IV is over; the reign of Edrehasivar VII has begun. The transition, however, is anything but smooth, as the Alcethmeret household navigates grief and worry as well as adapting to the new emperor.

A series of missing scenes and unseen moments centering around the Alcethmeret household over the course of the first few months of Maia's reign.

[mylifeisfruk4ever]

BEWARE THE GREMLINS

Jason had a friend. Now, there was nothing wrong with having friends.

Hell, Dick was the first to say that his little brother needed to come out of his shell and make some friends.

Even Bruce had friends, somehow.

Why not Jason?

The problem with Jason's friend, Tim Drake, their neighbor, was that he was as much of a gremlin as Jason himself.

A gremlin who was too smart and easily bored, which combined with Jason's intolerance to the galas he had to go to as Bruce Wayne's son, became a deadly mix. 

And it led to the following situation: the Derricks' son had been taken away for inappropriate behavior, and most of his friends were drunk. 

It didn't take a genius to figure out who did it, especially considering that Patrick Derrick was an asshole brat and liked to remind Jason that he was a charity case who will be replaced as soon as he gets too old (and Christ, the first time Dick had heard it, he had to stop himself from punching a thirteen-year-old in the face. The implications on Bruce, God, made him angry.) and Jason was very inclined to take his little revenges.

He ran a hand through his hair, “You two. Explain.”

“I was minding my own business,” Jason began. “Then Patrick came up to me and he told me that since I'm going to be thirteen soon, I won't be a new model anymore. “

Dick thinned his lips, “It's not the first time he's said that. Why did he end up making a fool of himself in front of everyone this time?

“Well, I'm used to insults by now, and I know how to control myself. But Tim intervened to tell him to stop, and Patrick..."

“Patrick said to shut up and that I'm a son of a bitch, that everyone knows how my mother has so many important partners for our company,” it was Tim's turn to say, the frown on his face making it seem like younger than his nine years. 

Dick had heard the rumors about Janet Drake, but had never given it much thought. Especially since the rumors had her as Bruce's  lover, and the less he thought about his adoptive father's sex life, the better it was.

[armed-with-a-waffle-iron]

Bat Family Ages (with Sources & Panels)

Notes: I'm NOT using a "year zero"; the calendar year before "Batman: Year One" is "1 Year Before Batman".

TLDR

Ages at the end of Preboot (Batman: Year Twenty)- Bruce (45), Renee (37-38), Kate (33), Babs (27-28), Helena (26-27), Dick (26), Cass (21), Jason (20-21), Steph (19), Tim (17 18), Damian (10-11).

D.O.B.-

Bruce Wayne- 26 Years Before Batman

Renee Montoya- 7th September, 19 Years Before Batman

Kate Kane- 14 Years Before Batman

Barbara Gordon- 8-9 Years Before Batman

Helena Bertinelli- 8 Years Before Batman

Dick Grayson- 1st Day of Spring™, 7 Years Before Batman

Cassandra Cain-Wayne- 26th January, 2 Years Before Batman

Jason Todd- 16th August, 2 Years Before Batman

Stephanie Brown- 1 Year Before Batman

Tim Drake-Wayne- Batman: Year One

Damian Wayne- Batman: Year Nine

Long Version

Bruce Wayne- 26 Years Before Batman

On the 4th of January, Year One, a 25 year-old Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham after 12 years abroad on 4th January, months before his first outing as Batman (Batman: Year One #1). Unless his birthday is between Jan 1-4, Bruce turns 26 the year Batman is born.

Dick Grayson- 1st Day of Spring, 7 Years Before Batman

Dick Grayson's origin story is appears in the tail end of Batman: Dark Victory, which takes place in the 4th and 5th years of Batman's career.

In its sequel, Robin: Year One, Dick begins attending Bristol Middle School. And in Batman & Robin (2009) #13, Dick, as Batman, tells the Joker he had already figured him out at 12 but The Joker doesn't appear in Robin: Year One. So, Dick is probably 11 when he becomes Robin, in Year Five (Dark Victory). Dick is 19 years younger than Bruce.

Important for later, Dick becomes Nightwing, aged 19 (Nightwing: Year One and Batman #116) in Year Thirteen.

Jason Todd- August 16th, 2 Years Before Batman

According to his death certificate, Jason Todd was 15 years and 8 months old when he died on the 27th of April (Batman Files). His birthday is August 16th (Detective Comics #790). At this time, Dick Grayson was 21, having left the Robin mantle 2 years earlier; at 19 (Batman #436). Jason is around 5 years younger than Dick. He was hence Robin for less than 2 years, from when he was 13 going on 14 in Year Thirteen up to 27th April, Year Fifteen.

Stephanie Brown- 2 Years Before Batman

Steph is 15 when she debuts as Spoiler (Secret Origin 80-Page Giant). At the same time as her debut comic, Deathstroke (1991) Annual 1 has Dick saying he, one of the oldest Titans, is no older than 21 (the age he was when Jason died). Dick is 6 years older than Steph. So Steph debuts in Year Fifteen; the same year Jason dies and Tim becomes Robin.

Steph becomes Batgirl right before her freshman year of university, aged 18, going on 19 (Batgirl 2009 #1). This is in Year Nineteen. Which means that Preboot ends in Batman: Year Twenty as Steph has not yet entered sophomore year. Convergence takes place after of course.

Barbara Gordon- 8-9 Years Before Batman

Batgirl (2000) #45 shows that Babs was already Batgirl at 18. As an adult, Babs is 5'11" and yet she did not meet the minimum height requirements for the GCPD or FBI during Batgirl: Year One. She must have become Batgirl before she stopped growing, and so was at most 16 during Batgirl: Year One. She also says that she is older than Dick in Batgirl: Year One but they must be close enough in age for them to go to prom together (Detective Comics #871). My theory is that Babs didn't go to her own prom because she skipped grades and was or felt too young so her high school prom was actually when she went with Dick to his. Babs is somewhere between 1-2 years older than Dick.

There's more evidence for this. Dick is already a Teen Titan during Batgirl: Year One and in New Titans #89 said that he knew Donna Troy since they were both 13. So Babs likely became Batgirl between Year Seven and Year Eight, when she was 15-16 and Dick was 13-14. Also, Dick and Babs have a picnic as friends 12 years before The Black Mirror, in Year Twenty, so these ages are pretty perfect.

Important for later, Babs is shot by the Joker just before Jason is killed and becomes Oracle before Tim becomes Robin. This is in Year Fifteen; she is roughly 22 here given that Dick is 20-21 at the time. No panels just math :P

Cassandra Cain-Wayne- January 26th, 2 Years Before Batman

Cassandra Cain debuts in No Man's Land aged 17 (Batgirl 2000 #1) and turns 18 on the 26th of January the following year, though she only learns this after it has passed (Batgirl 2000 #33). Later that year, Bruce brings her to Jason's grave on the 16th of August, the day he would have turned 18 (Detective Comics #790). She is 7 months older than Jason.

Helena Bertinelli- 8 Years Before Batman

Helena Bertinelli was 8 when her family was murdered and the events of Huntress: Cry for Blood takes place 15 years after, following directly after No-Man's Land. Huntress is hence 23 following No-Man's Land. Cass turns 18 soon after No-Man's land, so Helena is around 5 years older than Cass.

But, Cass is born in January and Helena could be born later in the year. Helena Bertinelli is 21 years-old during Huntress: Year One; when she becomes the Huntress. She soon moves back to Gotham after Carvinal in Venice (late Jan-early Feb), and encounters Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Babs is at most 22 here so Babs is close to 1 year older than Helena and Helena is slightly older than Dick. Huntress debuts at the tail end of Year Fourteen.

Damian Wayne- Batman: Year Nine

Dick and Stephanie call Damian a 10 year old in Batman and Robin #2 and Batgirl #17. One takes place before Steph starts uni (since Damian appears in Batgirl 2009 #1) and the other takes place during Steph's second semester of freshman year (Batgirl #13). So Damian is 9 years younger than Stephanie. He first appears aged 9 at the start of Year Nineteen and becomes Robin later that year, aged 10.

Renee Montoya- 7th September, 19 Years Before Batman

In 52 #14, published in 2006, we see Renee's passport and date of birth: 9/7/1970. It is the 14th week of the year so she would be 35 going on 36. 52 takes place in Year Eighteen, the calendar year Damian turns 9, so Renee is 27 years older than Damian.

She debuts as the second Question in 52 #48 the same year, aged 36.

Kate Kane- 14 Years Before Batman

Kate Kane is 32 at the time of Batwoman: Elegy, in Year Nineteen, since she was in the same class at West Point as the real-life activist Dan Choi, which means that she was part of the US Military Academy Class of 2003. Damian is 10 at the time so Kate is 22 years older than Damian.

Tim Drake-Wayne- Batman: Year One

Tim's age is THE weird one because DC are hellbent on keeping him at 17. It's too much for my brain, like how is he still 17 in Red Robin?? Let's say he seems to be only a year younger than Stephanie Brown a la Secret Origins 80-Page Giant or that he was bitten by a strange vampire bat during the One Year Later time skip. Your pick.

Fun fact: Dick permanently becomes Batman at 25 (in Year Nineteen), which is possibly the same age Bruce was when he became Batman.

[jonmyblaze]

My personal rough BAT fam timeline

Bruce Wayne was nine when he witnessed his parents was shot, he was 18 when he traveled the world (he grew up with other former JSA Masters teaching him in America but he was 18 when he went on a world adventure by himself)

He was 19 when he returned and when he first became "Batman. "

--------

Katherine Kane was in her late twenties when her husband was murdered in front of her and her daughter Bette, she remembered hearing stories of her late eldest sister Martha being murdered by Gotham but she had left way before katherine even knew enough about Martha.

------

Dick Grayson would be 9 years old when he was first taken in as a ward by eligible bachelor and Playboy Bruce Wayne celebrating his 21st birthday.

he spent 3 years training supervised with Batman.

Robin would be 12 when he was first allowed to go on patrol alone. Robin would be named after his mother's nickname for him seeing as he was born on the 1st of spring the Grayson's Little Robin.

Bette Kane and Catherine Kane became became bat girl and batwoman, when Betty was 11 (she's only a half a year younger than dick).

Barbara Gordon would be 20 when she first joined the scene as batgirl(she is roughly halfway between Bruce and Dick's age)

Time jump

At age 15 dick would form The Titans with some of his fellow peers Donna, Roy Garth, Wally. (In New York City)

At 18 he would leave the nest and recreate the Teen Titans dubbing the new Teen Titans

(and West Coast would have their own Titans made by Betty called "Titan's West Coast" in jump City

At 19 dick would be kidnapped by the al ghul family after he met a name Talia Al ghoul in meds class

At age 20 he will drop out of college.

At 21 dick would become Nightwing for the first time. Inspired by his "uncle" Clark, Bette following in her cousin's footsteps would become flame bird

Jason Todd would be taking in (12)

and later become Robin (at 13)

More at part 2

&---------------&

This is the first age the gold and silver age of the bat family.

Notable additions I had

The kanes being more prominent, Betty and Dick remaining having their friendship.(also simplifying the Kane's family tree for Bette)

Catherine was way too young to even raise Bruce but Alfred was also dubbed Bruce's godfather and first in line for Bruce's custody should his parents die.

Keeping the pre crisis origin of Barbara being younger than Bruce but older than dick but still an adult able to go to college for bachelor's degree..

Jason Todd having less than a year to convince Bruce to send him on to patrol.

Keeping the origin that Talia first met dick at college for med school (she's probably way older but they were in the same class as she took college a little later)

And I haven't even gotten to Tim yet.

Look out for part two

[gffa]

Fascinating to think that some part of Tim might think Dick and Jason were drafted into the role and considers himself the one who volunteered--which, like, we have seen those chaos gremlin children, the only "drafting" that was done was "Bruce drafted them into wrangling a fucking leash on them so they were 5% less of a menace to society at large", but Tim wouldn't have seen that. Tim would only have seen the aftermath of it all, would have seen Dick after he'd left the role behind, would have seen Jason after he was fucked up over it all, the complicated relationships they both had with being Robin. That Tim may have seen them from a distance when he was younger (I forget what's canon now post-Rebirth), then later would have seen Damian pressed into the role (rather willingly, but I can believe Tim might see Damian as having been drafted into the role), and that neither Jason nor Dick wants to go back to Robin. But Tim still kind of does, because he sees it as something he chose, rather than was chosen for him. I'm not necessarily married to this interpretation, but I do find it interesting to explore the idea that Tim looks at the other three Robins and thinks that, because they're so ill-fitted to it now, or because it wasn't about being Robin for Damian, but about a path to claiming everything of Bruce's legacy, that they were drafted, rather than that they chose this life. That Dick was a traumatized nine year old who had nowhere else to go and desperately wants to please Bruce, that Jason was a desperate 15 year old kid on the street and desperately wanted to please Bruce (because anyone who has as much of a bug up their ass about Batman like Jason does, it comes from having desperately wanted his approval, Tim could think), that Damian was given the role because he needed something to tie him to this family and give him structure so he wouldn't go off the rails and become a full-time murderer and dangling a path to his father's cape in front of him would do it, that all three of them needed to be Robin to have a place to belong, but that Tim came from money, Tim still had his family, he chose to be Robin, he wasn't put in a place where he had no other choice. I don't even necessarily think that Tim is married to this interpretation within this interpretation, but I could see a world where Tim views himself as the one who volunteered because he felt he had other choices--but Dick, Jason, and Damian didn't, ignoring that you can't tell any of those kids shit about what to do, they did what they wanted. But Tim can be just as stubborn and weird about his family as any of those other gremlins and I would enjoy exploring that facet of him.

[mistergreatbones]

Okay okay, so. Y’know how Tim seeing Dick’s parents preform kinda breaks the timeline because he wouldn’t have been born at the time? I think I found a solution.

So in Batman Vol 1 #339, after falling out with Bruce, Dick very very briefly decides to join a circus. This is Earth-One continuity so it’s the same circus he met Jason and the Flying Todds at. So no it’s not canon but just pretend like it is for this okay.

So Dick does this:

And then almost dies but saves himself at the last minute!!

So that’s really cool right? Like really impressive. And the announcer also just told everyone that Dick could do a triple backflip.

Again, this is when Dick first met Jason, who would have been twelve at the time. Tim is three years younger than Jason, so he would have been nine while this was happening.

What I’m suggesting is that instead of figuring out who Robin is from being in the audience when the Graysons died, he figures out who Robin is because he’s in the audience during this event.

[farshootergotme]

Regarding this post, these are the options I have to fix my timeline while being able to keep the 8 yo Dick Grayson origin.

1. Change Tim's origin by changing how he was introduced to The Flying Graysons:

Tim wasn't there the day of the accident—he hadn't been born yet. Only his parents were present.

It was a heartbreaking tragedy what happened to the young Grayson's parents, but they couldn't do anything more than feel sorry for the boy.

A year later they conceived their first and only son, Timothy Drake.

When he was around four or five years old, they introduced him to the Flying Graysons through videos, photos and stories they had collected from the few shows they had attended. Tim loved them, and he found himself specially interested in the boy who started doing amazing acrobatics since he was just as young as him and even before that!

Growing up he made his own research on the boy, finding out more things about him and being more and more amazed each time he saw anything new of him.

His parents enjoyed the shows, but Tim became a true fan of the Graysons.

It hadn't taken long for Tim to learn about what happened and where Dick Grayson was now. He had a short period of depression when he found out, and kept watching the same tape of one of the last shows over and over again, engraving the jumps and twirls on his memory.

It was a few years later that he saw once again one of the impossible moves of Dick Grayson being performed by none other than Robin, the Boy Wonder, the young hero that protected his city along with the Batman. Robin, who happened to look just about Dick Grayson's age and had a uncannily similar height, and who had just executed a move that he was sure only three people could do.

It only took making a few dot-connections and a child's wild imagination to conclude the kid he's been admiring all these years is the same teenage hero that's just as amazing.

And the rest we all know how it goes.

2. Narrow the age-gap between Dick and Tim from nine years to six years.

When Dick had been eight and Tim two years old, Jhon and Mary Grayson died falling to their deaths.

Normally, witnessing something so horrific would cause someone to lock down and completely forget about such event, but Tim was different. He remembered. And even years later what happened was clear in his head, despite having been so young at the time.

(this would align with my hc that Tim has photographic memory, but I won't expand too much on that)

The story goes just as the original did, only the ages being the most obvious change.

And as for the 3., the credit goes to @cars2thesequel-blog

And that's all I have. I think my favorite version is 1., but 2. is pretty sad considering what it means for Dick's character, since certain events would now happen to him when he was even younger than he was for them originally (or, alternatively, Tim (and probably Jason if we keep him older than Tim) would be older for many of his main events) and 3. Is a really cool concept for an alternative universe that could explore Jason's missed opportunities being showed to him through Tim.

[tarucore]

DC has once again accidentally given Dick Grayson an interesting character trait by being repressed bigots and I can’t stop thinking about it

Specifically this time I’m thinking about how they keep queerbaiting Dick but it actually makes sense with his character if you think about it for two seconds

Because No, I Don’t Think That He Would be open about his sexuality with others, if he has come to terms with it at all

While I’d love to talk about the history of queerness in comics, I don’t have the energy for it right now. What I will say however is that modern day Dick Grayson is written as a very millennial character, in both fan-spaces and modern comics despite whatever age the retcons have set

I think people forget how far queer acceptance has come in recent history, twenty years ago, even ten years ago, we were not at the place we are now, it’s honestly insane how quickly things changed from 2015 to now

Like, No He Wouldn’t be ‘out and proud’ in the Gen Z sense, most older gay people that I know are private about their gender and sexuality, either because of bullying when they were younger, abuse, or the media never picturing queer people as anything other than villains or jokes

He’s had constant media pressure on him from an early age, in both aspects of his identity, his ethnicity already makes him stray from the ideal cishet WASP that a private school and Bruce’s social circles would want him to be, even as he got older his love life was in the public eye when he dated Kori as Dick Grayson

And that’s not even getting into how his relationship with his sexuality would be affected by his history of sexual abuse

Him appearing on pride covers/events or openly supporting queer people in the text is different from him turning to the audience and saying “Hey, I’m bisexual,” or “Did you know that I’ve always been demisexual and biromantic?” or even a “I like guys too,” and frankly it would be out of character for him to say so

For some people, being out to close family and friends is wildly different from ‘coming out,’ especially for a public figure like Dick Grayson or Nightwing is in his world. And I feel like that could make an interesting dynamic with a member of his family like Tim, who is out publicly as Tim Drake-Wayne. Tim who is written as a part of Gen Z in his early twenties or something rn (even though 90’s kid Tim will always have my heart)

And this is a personal anecdote but I’m thinking about how my little sister and I were standing in the checkout line one day and she starts talking about how gay an outfit that I tried on looked, and how quickly I changed the subject. She about nine years younger than me but old enough to know that we live in a conservative area. It was a bit panic inducing, and it’s so interesting to think about how even though I’m on the older side of Gen Z, I was still raised in a culture that said we don’t talk about these things especially not in public. Like I was still called a dyke in middle school but when I hit junior year all of a sudden it was trendy (if a bit fetishized) to be bi. She, thankfully, never really has to deal with that

So whenever he’s on a pride variant cover and people are complaining about a lack of formal representation, all I can do is seethe bc yes it’s completely in character for him but obviously detective comics comics isn’t doing it on purpose

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

Thank you for tag @searchforahero

rules: answer and tag nine people you want to get to know better and catch up with.

favorite color: Black, and I need there to be a ton of black surrounding any other color to enjoy it, but I'm also a fan of lilac and teal

last song: Uncle Sam Goddamn by Brother Ali

currently reading: Almost nothing tbh, though I am sifting through various comics off and on to try and get a handle on the characters I'm trying to write, so some 1900s Young Justice stuff, and I read a bunch of Robin Tim sorta recently.

currently watching: Helloween4545 playing Crow Country I really don't do TV shows at all these days, and my movie nights crew hasn't gotten together in a long while

currently craving: a nap with my boyfriend

coffee or tea: Tea. Specifically the kind of southern US tea that comes real cheap in gallon jugs or tea bags meant to steep a gallon of water at a time, like the red diamond kinda shit

hobby to try: Coding. The squiggly little lines that make the computer go intrigue me

current au: ooooohhh I got a million of these going at all times, here's the current crop:

Chained AU

Jason is set in front of a contract that will grant near omnipotence over every facet of reality. The catch is that it requires the person who actually gains the power to be permanently bound into the service of someone else. Afraid of what this could do in the wrong hands, Jason asks Tim to be his new Master.

This one has been on permanent rotation since I was like 16 tbh

Brothers In Blood Hive King AU

In which Jason was lying at the end of BiB and was not back to normal and is still some kind of alien tentacle monster and Jason and Tim and I get to be freaks about it

We Are One clone AU

So you know how most clone plots end up with the doppleganger trying to take over the other's life and someone has to choose the real one? What if the clone and the 'real one' decided they could share actually and were complete freaks about it?

In this one Jason dies and comes back to life as per usual, except he ALSO gets cloned by someone who doesn't want Bruce to go through the horrors of a dead son. Which then means that there is a very literal replacement Jason hanging around living the life Jason would have had if he didn't die. They fight for a while but then decide that actually, they both have equal claim to this life.

So they decide to get like insanely weird with it! They take turns carving their scars into each other and telling each other every last detail of their lives and memorizing each other's verbal ticks so that they can just... pretend they are one singular person. Forever. Every day they swap which of them is doing outside things and which is doing the indoor cooking/cleaning/resting. It's a drastic improvement in quality of life for both Jasons simply due to the fact that they now actually rest a lot, and get adequate time to heal from all their injuries. They take this as a sign that they were incomplete without each other and get Even Weirder About It.

A secondary fic would feature Dick's POV as it gets revealed that for the passed five years, his younger brother has been two different people who are continuing to insist that they are one singular person even now that they're both in the same room together, and Dick can't figure out if they're trying to gaslight him or if this is some kind of ritualistic mutual cult reinforcement thing that they've used to gaslight each other into genuinely believing it's true. They talk in unison for upwards of an hour without either flubbing anything, but there's no psychics involved so they have to have just practiced that shit which is actually a thousand times scarier than there being something supernatural about them. Also Dick's pretty sure they're gonna murder him if they realize he's taken blood samples and knows that one is a clone.

Both this one and the BiB Hive King AU originally started out as Chained chapters, with Jason from Chained having been the one to ensure Hive King Jason got to stay a tentacle monster and the one to convince clone Jason and birth Jason that they both had equal right to their life. (And that since both of them already knew who the clone was, the only thing they were really fighting over was the affection of their family - something neither of them had any control over and which neither of them was ever going to get. Might as well each focus on loving themself.) I'm def keeping the Hive King one as a Chained cameo thing, not so sure about keeping this one.

Jason marries Orcus, Demon Lord of Undeath, from D&D AU???

idk man my two special interests are Jason and Demons, it was bound to happen eventually, but this one is probably staying firmly locked up in my noggin forever tbh

Uhhhhh let's see, nine whole people...

@laufire @lazaruspiss @zeroducks-2 @deepwithintheabyss @acaffeinefiend

@cologona @kittykatninja321 @swamp-spirit @cleromancy

feel free to do this thingy if you want :3

[punkeropercyjackson]

Bruce I agree with, and I totally get it with Dick, but canonically speaking, isn’t Jason only about a year older than Steph? If I recall correctly, he’s about nine months younger than Cass. Has that changed in the more recent comics?

Hey dude!!So first thanks for being polite because people usually get VERY angry when you post anti J*ysteph so i appreciate your wording and lack of aggression! /gen.And to awnser your question,pre-reboot it's hard to tell but in current canon Stephanie is 18 and Jason is 23!Not a problematic age diff imo since they're both young adults instead of one of them being way older and i myself am a 22 year old who'd be okay with dating an 18 year old but unfortunately people REALLY like emphasizing how Jason is 'the cool hot older boy' in comparison to Tim and it gets really weird with commonly it's paired with Tim bashing-Like it just screams that 'Nice guys finish last' junk you see in a lot of m/f ship wars and this is just me but i think Stephanie would be grossed out at the idea of dating a group of siblings based off them being siblings.Timsteph and Stephcass happening at different points is completely different because it's just her being best friends to lovers with Cass and related to the age thing,Cass has a year on her at most so there's that too!

[secondgenerationnerd]

Mother’s Day

Enjoy ☺️

————

When Omega told their parents they had a surprise for Mother’s Day, none of them knew what to expect. Unpredictability being their children’s specialty, they are just as likely to walk into a screaming match as a dance party. But they trust them. They expect a brunch or party or even a supposedly friendly competition for best mother—undoubtedly leading to a fist fight.

What they don’t expect is home movies in the Manor’s viewing room. The teenagers had stocked up on their mothers favorite snacks and drinks, along with some gifts. The best one, though, is the memories filling the screen.

Two-year-old Jon Kent running around in Superman onesie, a red blanket tied around his neck. Five-year-old Lian headbanging in the kitchen with her parents. Four-year-old Milagro shrieking as Nine-year-old Jaime chases her through sprinklers. Eleven-year-old Damian’s soft look at his baby sister, whose giggles at his scowl, telling Selina that Helena wasn’t afraid of him. Six-year-old Jai and Irey delivering at TED talk about why dessert should be before dinner.

“Alright, who’s next?” Tim asks, with Helena, now five, hanging off his back.

“I am, Uncle Timmy.” Mar’i calls, settling back beside her father, “I sent you the video.”

Omega keeps chattering among themselves, ignoring the looks their parents send their ways. What on earth are these children up to?

Suddenly a warm laugh fills the room. For a second, they think it’s the resident princess, but the voice that follows isn’t hers. “Irt’cla, Bumgorf!”

On the screen, Queen Koriand’r appears on camera. From the bottles and makeup in view, she must have it set up on her vanity. Their breath catches as a little girl flies over. They know those dark curls, mischievous impossible green eyes, and bright smile, a near-perfect miniature of her mother. Their Mar’i, so much younger than they had ever seen, with an odd stuffed doll in her arms.

While they are undeniably speaking Tamaranean, someone had added English subtitles.

“Alright, my Star, how are we doing your hair?”

“Like yours, Mommy.” Little Mar’i looks up, almost questioning if that’s allowed. A gentle hand smoothes a stray curl back.

“I would be honored to match the birthday girl.” Kor’i teases, reaching for a spray bottle, “How old are you today?”

Brow furrowing, Mar’i holds up four tiny fingers. Kor’i gently pulls her thumb free, kissing her head, “Silly Star. You’re five today.”

“Oh….How old is Daddy now?”

Such a simple question shouldn’t feel like a gut punch. Kor’i’s brows furrow, just like her daughter, as she says, “He’d be about 29, almost 30.”

“Is that old for humans?”

There’s that laugh again. God, how long has it been since Dick heard it? Braiding the front section of curls, Kor’i shakes her head, “Hardly, though some think it is.”

“Like Uncle Roy? Or Uncle Wally?”

“They thought that about other people,” Kor’i says, not bothering to hide her smile, “You know Uncle Roy has a little girl, about a year older than you.”

“Lian…would we be friends?”

“Oh Star, you two would save the world or destroy it. Especially if you met Uncle Wally’s children.” A snort from Lian and the twins confirms that.

“Is Daddy like that? With Uncle Roy and Uncle Wally?”

“Oh, absolutely, but he has a very special talent,” Kor’i muses, “He has such a sweet face, no one could believe he was a troublemaker.”

“Like me!” Mar’i says. With a pang, so many notice how she smiles like her father. Kor’i pins part of her hair as she nods, laughing again. “Daddy can’t fly like us, but he a….a…aco-bat.”

“That’s right, Star, an acrobat.” Kor’i gently combs another section, “You have a lot of Daddy questions today, huh?”

Little Mar’i nods. Present day Mar’i rests her head on her father’s shoulder. Kor’i scoops more cream into her hands, smoothing flyaways in the braid, “Remind me what Daddy’s name is?”

“Richard Grayson.” Little Mar’i says it slowly, like the words don’t quite fit in her mouth, “Everyone calls him Dick.”

“That’s right, sweet girl. Dick Grayson is your daddy. So, if we were on earth, your name would be….?”

“Mar’i Grayson.”

Kor’i holds a hand to her heart, pretending to be emotional, “Such a smart star I have. How’d you get that way?”

“K’norfka.” Little Mar’i squeals as her mother tickles her neck. The sweet scene makes their hearts ache. This was Mar’i’s childhood. Granted, she’d told them about the princess lessons and training to control her powers. But she had this too—a mother taking time from ruling to shower her affection, to tease her, to make her feel beautiful and smart and seen.

“If you’re so smart,” Kor’i teases as she stops the tickles, “Can you tell me why Daddy is on Earth?”

Dick tenses in his seat, no doubt scared of the little girl’s answer. The adults all had some vague details, but they all know letting Kor’i go is one of his biggest regrets.

“Because you both didn’t know I was in your belly.” Mar’i chirps, “You kept me and didn’t tell him just yet.”

“Why would I do that?” Kor’i asks, a bit of sadness in her eyes, though she doesn’t let her daughter see.

“Because Daddy spent a long time protecting other people, he didn’t take care of himself.”

“That’s right.” Gently tilting her daughters head up, Kor’i brushes her thumb over Mar’i’s cheek, “I made that choice, baby, not him. He’s figuring things out for himself. But don’t you think for one second you aren’t wanted or loved.”

“I know. You and K’norfka tell me all the time.”

“Love isn’t just words. It’s action. If someone says they love you, but their actions always hurt, that’s not love.” Kor’i says, twisting her daughters hair up, “When you find people who show you their love, you hold on tight. Okay?”

“Yes, ma’am.”

“Alright.” Kor’i has her stand in the chair, hugging her from behind. “All done, my Shining Star. Ready for our power words?”

Even at five years old, Mar’i straightens up, looking at her reflection. “Ready.”

“I am Mar’i.”

“I am Mar’i.”

Kor’i smiles with pride as Mar’i repeats her. “I come from warriors, their strength and bravery is in me. I am allowed to take up space and use my voice. I have a clever mind and kind heart. I deserve love for who I am, not what I can do. I am enough for the people that matter.”

Several throats close, tears rolling down faces. Dick squeezes his daughter’s hand. She should be crying, but she just smiles softly at the screen. How many times has she watched this video? Or repeated those words to herself?

“Oh! I forgot one!” Kor’i’s eyes twinkle with mischief as Mar’i frowns. Then the little girl shrieks with laughter as she’s attacked with tickles and kisses, “You are trouble, trouble, trouble!”

Mar’i wiggles free from her mother’s grasp. As she flies off screen, still giggling, Kor’i reaches for the screen. Softly, like she’s mostly talking to herself, Kor’i says, “Oh, my Silly Star. I named you perfectly.”

The video ends, Kor’i’s smiling face frozen on the screen. It’s quiet for a moment. Then Lian’s voice rings out, “Omega, all in favor of previewing Mar’i’s shit moving forward?”

“Aye.” Comes from the other six members, including Mar’i’s boyfriend.

“Motion passed—“

“On what grounds!” Mar’i scoffs. Lian gives her friend an incredulous look.

“You should be crying your eyes out. Yet you’re not. So you obviously watched this video multiple times in preparation. Like the sadist you are.”

“Mmmm in this context wouldn’t masochist—“

“Knowing you? You’re both, princess. But,” Lian gestures to the screen, “Not hard to see where you get the confidence from.”

“That’s still not grounds to pass a vote—“

“Get one person to agree with you, we will drop the vote.”

A wicked grin spreads across Mar’i’s face, “Oh, Jonny—“

Omega whips around at the youngest Super. Pointing a finger at him, looking eerily like her mother, Irey hisses, “Jonathan, If you can’t be strong, be silent.”

Normally Jon would not respond. However the look he gets reminds them of who’s son he is. Leaning forward in his chair, he says, “You wanna check that tone, Iris?”

“You wanna check these hands—“

“Easy, sweetheart,” Linda puts a hand on her daughters shoulder, “Let’s get one day without a fist fight.”

“Or heat vision.” Lois agrees, shooting her son a look.

“Really any explosions, fires, fighting, random stabbing,” Bianca nods. Her children had, smartly, stayed quiet.

“Or pickpocketing, Helena Claire.” Selina calls. Huffing, the little girl starts handing her brothers their stuff back. “Now! Who’s next?”