#but they are also torturing me the audience by making me watch everything else
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carcarrot · 1 month ago
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watching 10th kingdom is not for the faint of heart
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autisticandroids · 1 year ago
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FAMINE: That's one deep, dark nothing you've got there, Dean.
[youtube with closed captions]
dean and his father. dean and his family. dean and how bad it is.
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(via @closetoyou1970)
#spn#vid#mind the warnings on this one for real#woe! fruit of my rewatch be upon ye.#pallas calls this my 'deangirl coming out vid' which honestly. true. but those who paid attention know i've always been a deangirl.#also. after this no more deanwinchester rilo kiley amvs I Pwomise#anyway. i'm not gonna give a full commentary here but a big reason why i chose this song is that the narrator#is essentially dismissing her own problems and instead watching the problems of someone else#and i kind of wanted to play with that theme. this is the parallels show so let's do some parallels. lots of things happen to characters#that are Like Dean somehow. either in personality or circumstance. that we know or can infer happen to him. but we don't see it bc it's#not sayable. not speakable. so like for an easy one. we see meg being tortured in caged heat. she also talks about apprenticing under#alastair just like dean. so i show her being tortured [in a way that is sexualized and demon-specific] and reacting how she does#because i invite the audience to imagine or interpret that this has also happened to dean at some point. we just don't see it#so there are many dean parallels in this video. some obvious. some subtle but textual. some products of my twisted mind. but that's the way#i am using them to make my argument.#oh also: dean voice sam's eyes going black is JUST like when he used to fight with dad and wouldn't listen to me when i told him not to.#i guess also the point is that because it's unsayable. dean can't say it. dean can't even acknowledge it. and so it bleeds through#into everything in his life#that's why it's important that the song narrator doesn't take her own problems seriously. dean doesn't either.
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ordinaryschmuck · 1 month ago
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With Gooseworx all but confirming that the Jax being an AI thing is bullshit, I personally want to talk about an interesting part about Jax that a lot of theorists used as "evidence" that validates the theory:
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Jax's fourth wall breaks are a common topic brought up amongst the "Jax is an NPC" theory. After all, Caine broke the fourth wall in the pilot, knowing full well that the world of The Amazing Digital Circus isn't real and is talking to some unseen viewer as he introduces the Circus Crew.
There's also this bit of official art surrounding Jax's pin:
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Where everyone else is inside their room, Jax is outside as pieces of the circus fall apart around him and all of reality to crash. Certainly lends itself to this idea that Jax knows he's not a real person and that his presence could cause great disruption to this world. And he doesn't care because none of it is real. Might as well have fun and cause chaos in a world that doesn't exist.
And I'll admit, all of this seems like valid claims for how the theory could be true. I saw it all and thought that it surely COULD be possible...but there are some things that stop me from being convinced.
Firstly, Caine breaking the fourth wall in the pilot doesn't really seem like an AI talking to the audience. It looks more like an AI programmed to talk to a player as a game boots up. What we saw in the opening could be more like a morning routine that he has to do at least once a day. Plus, we've yet to see any other NPC talk to the audience like Jax has. He explicitly called out the viewers in episode three, knowing full well he's being watched by SOMEONE. Or, at the very least, acting like he is. What do I mean by that? Well, to explain, I'd like to use one of my favorite fourth wall breakers as an example:
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Deadpool, in most adaptations, knows fully well that he's a fictional character. He'll talk to the readers/viewers, move the camera around, and constantly talk shit to the writers/studio for occasionally screwing him over. It's all in good (Sometimes bloody) fun...but there's a canonical reason for this. It's not like She-Hulk where the fourth wall breaks are a way to tell HER stories HER way. You see, Deadpool...is just fucking insane.
No, really, that's the reason. Due to the trauma of gaining his powers, Deadpool's mind breaks and he's led to believe that he MUST be a fictional character. In comics, he actually gets voices in his head that makes him think he must be some comic book superhero, and the movies implied that something similar happened given how he never broke the fourth wall ONCE before getting his powers. This means him breaking the fourth wall could be seen as a coping mechanism. After all, it's better to believe you're a fictional character designed to entertain some invisible audience than believe that all of the shitty things that happened to you and people close to you is just a cruel joke from the universe.
Sound familiar?
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Going back to the pilot, remember how Pomni's first instinct was to say that the Circus was all just a dream? To her, it's better to live in a lie that everything around her isn't real than to accept the reality that she's stuck in digital purgatory. Jax very well could be going through something similar, but unlike Pomni who seemed to just accept her reality, Jax never did. The trauma of being stuck in the Circus had led to his mind breaking just like Pomni's, Kinger's, and anyone else's. It's just that, for him, he thinks he's coping with it better because he discovered the secret that no one else did: None of this is real.
They're not actually people trapped in some hellscape while an AI unintentionally tortures them. They're all just fictional characters whose tragedies and silly antics are used to entertain viewers. I mean, it's either that or they're real people forever trapped in the circus with the closest thing to death being a full, psychotic break as they give up their sanity because they no longer want to exist in this hell anymore...But that possibly can't be true. Because if that IS true, then Jax has to face that he's a real person stuck in a real, awful situation that he can't joke his way out of. So, it's best to think nothing is real and nothing they do matter. So, might as well have fun with it.
Going back to the pin...
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I don't think this is damning evidence about Jax being an NPC. Actually, it perfectly captures who he is as a character. He knows the circus isn't real. He even thinks HE isn't real. So instead of grappling with that, Jax lets himself believe that if nothing is real than nothing he does matters. He can break things, ruin lives, and assist in torturing the others in the circus. It's what he thinks will make the show more entertaining, even though all he's really entertaining is himself so his mind doesn't break more than it does.
Now, could the same apply if he's an NPC? Well...maybe. Gumigoo definitely proves how far someone could fall when they're told their world is fake. He was about ready to give up on life because he didn't think he had one. If Jax was an NPC, I could see him having a similar break, but going in the far opposite direction where, instead of giving up on life, he chooses to live the way HE wants it. Instead of being some one-off NPC for a lame adventure, he could go off on adventures of his own and ruin the lives of others now that his is thoroughly ruined.
However, Gooseworx makes a good point: "...a lot of people come up with theories based on how unexpected they'd be, and not because they make sense or align with the show's themes."
If Jax is an NPC, it would harm the overall message of the show. That there's meaning to be found in a stagnant life, and you find that meaning with people close to you who make that life worth living. Jax represents a sort of foil to that idea, with his way of coping with the madness being pure chaos and breaking others. It's his coping mechanism, and it works because it shows how human Jax really is. They're ALL human and they have human desires and wants, with the Circus pretty much stripping that away and leaving them...as they are now. They're emotionally broken, their sanity is decreasing, and some of them are losing all sense of self. By making Jax an NPC, it would definitely be surprising, but it would take away from that idea. It no longer makes him a human facing his own tragedy but instead an AI that's just as broken as Gummigoo. More than that, it gives the others an easy out. All the crew has to do is tell Caine that Jax is an NPC and POOF! No more annoyance. So making him someone who HAS to stay with the others and they're forever forced to deal with him also adds more to THEIR tragedy and torture.
Jax being an NPC is an interesting theory, but I don't think it's one that SHOULD be true. To me, it's more fascinating watching Jax treat the world around him as meaningless knowing he's a human instead of a rogue NPC breaking everything. And Gooseworx made it clear how they feel about it. Now, could it potentially be a mislead to get fans off the trail? Genuinely...I don't think so. That sounded very "I don't like this idea so it's not gonna happen" type of response. Still, we won't know until the show wraps up. Anything can happen, but don't get your hopes up if a character who does bad things to people that don't deserve it is more human than you think.
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ashomodeus · 20 days ago
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I have officially pushed myself into an overthinking fit about how none of my ideas are good enough. What the hell. Also, I am still working long days, and I caught something that made me feel like crap all week. What the freak. Here’s some basic crap ;-; while I recover and hopefully work eases up.
Kinky things the brothers do or just want to do
Let me know if you want a pt2 with the others.
These are my personal takes. Take em or leave em. (Jk ily pls don’t leave)
Thank you, Beyonce.
Cw: Gn!Mc, bad grammar, kinks
Part 2 ft. The Dateables, Raphael, Mephisto, and Thirteen
Lucifer
♡ Exibitionism
~ Pounding into Mc while an audience watches. Mc trying to hide their face but Lucifer holding their arms back.
~ Probably makes a lot of sex tapes with Mc. If a demon looks at Mc for even a second too long Lucifer might set that demon aside and play one of those videos. “You would never be able to make them feel like this. Pathetic for even thinking that.”
~ There isn’t a place Lucifer wouldn’t fuck Mc. If Mc is more of a shy person, he would find other ways to make sure people knew how well he treats Mc. Hickies. Marking. Vibrating toys.
~ After Mc and him hooked up the first time. It’s an addiction. He’s the type of demon to show not tell. Actions are louder than words… but not as loud as Mc. He needs them to be vocal.
Mammon
♡ Edging / Overstimulation.
~It’s both parties not just him. He’s the avatar of greed he wants everything he wants the moment to last.
~At first, he was insecure with how quickly he came but he realized it could have its benefits. The way he NEEDS more. The adrenaline. The strokes that have him close to just spilling.
~When it was Mc’s turn, he loved how red their faced turned. How desperate they are. How their hips tried to rock to be able to cum. How Mammon holds their hips down to make sure he was in full control. He was infatuated with how badly Mc wanted him.
~There’s the other side to things where overstimulation comes into play. Where he wants to make sure they are both dry. Where their bodies shake with how intense they feel.
~Mammon feels so accomplished if Mc turns into this empty-headed mess so close to finishing for a second, third, fourth, fifth, ect…
Levi
♡ Cucking
~ Now hear him out. He would love to watch Mc get pleased by other people. To see them get railed by others. It’s mental torture for him. As his pants get tight watch Mc get filled, he wishes he was the one making Mc feel that good.
~ Oh wait he can. It’s more of a warm up for Mc. When he watches someone else, please Mc he takes notes. Once the two are alone he does everything that was done but better.
~ This let’s Mc knows they could be with anyone but the only one they would truly be thinking about is him.
~ He will always make Mc tell him about how much better he is even if all Mc can do is moan. Cucking makes his insecurities vanish. No one can be good as him. He will always be there to finish the job.
Asmo
♡ Experimentalism
~ This demon has done everything under the sun but not with Mc. He wants to experience everything with Mc.
~ Everyday there’s something new.
~ Asmo would love to combine new and old things. He just loves the beauty of “If this one doesn’t work these two definitely will.
~He loves to pull Mc aside and tell them what they are doing tonight. What to bring, what to wear, what they should and shouldn’t do.
~ He loves making Mc explain their fantasy just so he can surprise them with the exact situation the same night.
Satan
♡ Bondage
~ He would love to tie Mc up and just have his way with them.
~ He always have something for Mc to be bound by. His favorite is actually a ball gag. The drool that come out of Mc’s mouth as they moan through the gag.
~ Satan always looks at new ways to restraint Mc. He doesn’t like bondage for the torture aspects. He enjoys being able to please Mc as many times as he likes. He likes being able to focus on parts of Mc intently.
~ He wants Mc as his personal fuck toy.
Beel
♡ Food play- SIKE Cunnilingus(I mean ofc)- SIKE Play fighting
~ He loves to play fight with Mc. He goes easy on them but he loves the sweat that builds up. The breathlessness that it causes.
~ Beel loves to pin Mc’s arms over their head. He admires all of their body so he can devour it once he wins. He loves all the positions he can put Mc before they even take their clothes off.
~ He loves how close he is to them. The first time he play fought with Mc. He had to hide his massive erection due to Mc moaning while fighting.
~ Sometimes he “accidentally” lifts up clothing of Mc or even his own. The more contact the better.
Belphie
♡ Starfish
~ On days Belphie feels extremely tired he would love for Mc to get on top of him and fuck him.
~ He just lays there in bed as Mc uses him. He loves to feel them bounce on his hard cock. The only active thing about him is the blood rushing towards his cock.
~ It’s surprising but he would reciprocate the exact same thing if Mc were in his position. Having someone else in control while he relaxes just feels amazing.
~ He would love to surprise Mc after a long day of classes. Them just lying down and Belphie making sure they are taken care of. Making sure they don’t move a muscle. Only the muscles that will help them cum.
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moonspirit · 7 months ago
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Do you think Levi hates Annie?
Hello anon!
Haha tho, no, Levi doesn't hate Annie. I don't think Levi hates anybody really. (Zeke is another can of worms, let's not go there rn)
First off, what I understand about Levi is that he's a deeply empathetic person. He holds a LOT of compassion and places a lot of value on human life (e.g: he isn't happy to learn that titans were all once humans). At the same time, Levi is someone who recognises that sometimes, it's necessary to make choices that can be violent and ruthless (one e.g: him torturing Sannes; he doesn't enjoy it but it came to that and had to be done). These are two personality traits that can actually coexist.
Coming to Annie. Much of the animosity towards her back when S1 aired was because 1. We didn't know everything about her, and 2. She killed Levi's elite Squad in a particularly violent fashion. She did kill Levi's Squad, and he was enraged, this much is painfully clear, I think. There's no denying he was furious seeing the talented people he worked with all dead in seconds.
But while I believe Levi is an emotional person who takes the deaths of his comrades very seriously, he is faaaaaarr from being vengeful. Remorse, regret, sorrow, and despair, these are things he feels, yes, but irrationally? just for the sake of being angry? No.
When we see the RBA "attacking" Paradis and trying to kidnap Eren multiple times, we (the audience) don't see them as children - we see them as young adults committing unspeakable acts of violence against an innocent population (this is exacerbated by the fact that Reiner is older than the others).
But they are mere KIDS to Levi, who's much older. He isn't stupid. He sees these kids, turning into titans and trying to kill them, and wonders why. Why are these children acting this way?
Also, try to look at it like this and see if it makes sense to you: Once the Scouts reached the basement and discovered the truth of the world, learned of the Eldian race, the Titan powers, Marley's existence, of Liberio within it, of the Warrior programme and how those human war weapons are all just children of 8 and 9 and 10, brainwashed with propaganda and bred to be nothing but tools and monsters - they understood. The Scouts understood before anybody else did, that the world was unfair on both sides of the wall.
Levi too, understood. He watched Annie kill his squad, and he understood at some point in time during the 4 year timeskip, that she was a child when she did what she did, and she had no choice but to do it.
While Levi doesn't express his emotions well, he doesn't dislike someone for the sake of disliking. He's blunt, he's foul mouthed, he's brutally honest and says what's on his mind... But him not openly talking to someone or showing care for them does not mean he hates them.
In fact none of the Warriors wanted to do any of the things they did, they committed those irreversible acts of murder and violence simply because they wanted to go back home. And maybe Paradis was the first place where they experienced some kind of friendship and equality, but it was still the target of their mission, a place they couldn't stay in. They still wanted to go back home to Liberio, back to the people they called family.
Annie, to the family she called her father.
A person as compassionate as Levi doesn't hate Annie, because he knows she did what she had to do when she was just a guilt-ridden teenage kid, even if that came at the cost of losing his friends.
Tell me also: Who in the Alliance hasn't lost their loved ones at the hands of another?
Around that fire with Hange, they've all killed someone dear to the other.
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milgram-tournament · 1 year ago
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MILGRAM Best Song Tournament, Round 1, Match 4 HALF vs. MAGIC
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Propaganda for both options under the cut!
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Propaganda for HALF:
kazui may just be an old gay man but HE CAN SING.
its. literally stunning.
like aside from his character and everything else, half is just really really beautifully written
THE INSTRUMENTALS.
HIS V O I C E??? its so pretty
heartbreaking lyrics. i dont love kazui as a character but i have bawled to half
GAY RIGHTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love amane but she will undoubtedly win when her purge march poll rolls around, so lets let the old man have a win shall we?
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half propaganda let's goooo sorry i'm sobern't in true kazui style so this probably won't make a bit of sense
theatre kid man. i love him, incredible mv.
this song is pure ASMR to me
visually aligned with Cat and it's so lovely to see that continuity
the GRAINY MOVIE DOTS THING ON THE MV <3
kazui is so dramatic. i love him i love him
dapper gentleman. such clothes
the key change is so well done
AND THE . THE PART WITH THE. THE ENDING SORT OF LYRICS OVERLAID WITH SPEAKING. and then his quieter singing and, and, and o h my god. im sorry. im not very coherent abt this rn
every part of the song is amazing but once it gets to the key change and after it keeps stepping up the amount of being perfect
kazui is in it
um
kazui is in it
go my psionic warriors vote for everyone's favourite failhusband
no children were tortured in the making of this MV (cough looking at You magic)
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Allow me to present my Half propaganda!
- The slower tempo adds a very relaxing feeling to the song. Kinda ironic, but I like it! It sort of reminds of old indie songs from 2012 (especially with what I think is whistling added in the instrumental in-between chorus and verses.)
- Kazui’s voice. Enough said.
- It’s very easy to listen to, and I find it’s one of the only songs from Milgram that I like to listen to out of context (besides After Pain, Backdraft, and Purge March, oddly enough.)
- The MV is rife with imagery, and is used to beautiful effect. It really makes you feel for Kazui and his situation.
- The scene with him and Hinako before the key change… that makes me so emo.
- The overlapping part at the end… the lyrics combined with the dialogue in the background makes me really sad in a way I can’t explain.
Propaganda for MAGIC:
MAGIC MY BELOVED MAGIC!!! Its one of the best MVs in the entire series, even including T2. Magic is visually stunning and has some fantastic art direction but also is very clever in how it conveys its themes and ideas. Magic doesn't really hide anything from you, not really. It's all symbolic but it Tells You Things. It shows you the abuse, it shows you the cat. There's a fun little relationship going on here where, In Magic. Amane's pain and suffering isn't taken seriously by the people around her and the Audience we are discouraged to take it at face value due to the fictionalized nature of Magic. It's so cool. I'm so fond of the song as well, it's one of the best in the series purely cause of the Layers in it. The implications of this Inability to be good is seeped into Magic. Amane knows this isn't reality, Magic knows it's a show, she watches it at the end. And it's so Sad to me that even in her fictionalized happy world she Cannot be a good girl. It's a standard completely out of reach for her and that idea is just conveyed so well visually.
Im not even talking about the goddamn cat yet- the cat symbolism goes Deep. That cat is HER it has the same wounds Amane has in Purge March. I- I cant talk about the intertextuality of Purge March and Magic here this is Magic propaganda only- I- there's so much good stuff to Magic. I Re watched it over and over again. It has some the Best Writing and Visual Communication in Milgram and I will Die on this Hill.
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shoutout to magic for having pretty props AND being vague as fuck about the crime! diversity win!
seriously though amane looks SO cute in it! the mv has such a pretty and colorful style and even with that it's able to show the horrors of what amane went through.
adding onto my last point. that scene where the cat is hyperventilating and you see the camera shaking???? that scene where the mascots find amane helping the cat and they're all standing over her? CHILLS. im repeating myself but the fact that they were able to portray the awful things amane went through in a genuinely emotional way while still keeping the cute cartoon look is soo impressive
there are SO many layers to itill the entire cartoony style making it look like a tv show… utilizing the cartoony effects and bright colors to show amane downplaying her own pain… the transformation after she gets punished barely changing anything to show just how manipulated she was from the start… ueueueue
ALSO ALSO ALSO THE SCENE AT THE END WITH AMANE STARING AT THE SCENE? OHHH ITS SO GOOD it adds such a feeling of dread and reminds you on top of this whole thing that all of this is truly horrifying! something is going on here!
this song is so catchy it gets stuck in my head CONSTANTLY
"Dear wise one, Am I worthy? Is it ok to spoil myself?" AMANE... UEUEUUEUE
the little ding sound effects in the instrumental?????
amanes voice is ADORABLE
THE INSTRUMENTAL IN THAT PART WHERE SHES HELPING THE CAT HAS THAT GODLY TYPE SOUND YOUD TYPICALLY ASSOCIATE WITH CHURCHES AND STUFF AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT PROPERLY BUT JUST RELISTEN TO IT AND YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I MEAN. ITS SUCH A NEAT DETAIL
i could go on about this mv for days but i am not a theorist unfortunately. just. magic sweep
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avelera · 9 months ago
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Apologies for screaming into your askbox like this but
EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT BENIOFF AND WEISS IS SO FUCKING TRUE AND I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE IS FINALLY SAYING SOMETHING
As someone who read the Game of Thrones books (probably younger than I should have...but that's beside the point) the sorts of things that the two Ds decided needed to be added for the sake of "realism" or "accuracy" was ALWAYS just an excuse to brutalize someone. Be it kids, be it women (though in GoT is was usually women) and so much of it was not in the books!!! Like, sure, the books have accrued a reputation for being brutal, and they totally are...but they never seem as gretuatus in the way that David and Dan seem to revel in the crualty. Utterly original characters are introduced for the express purpose of being killed or assaulted, and it makes watching Game of Thrones a harrowing experience.
I'm not surprised that this has continued in their other work, in so many ways, the bloodlust became their calling card. I am deeply thankful that most of the other places that had been courting them to make projects have dropped them.
I will say in defense of the no doubt huge team who worked on Three Body Problem that it's not a gore fest or anything. There was a lot I've enjoyed in eps 1-5 (which as far as I've gotten at the moment) and scenes of violence are hardly the only thing that happens (though umm... maybe be prepared for the opening scene. It's also a doozy.)
Anyway, as I see it, Benioff and Weiss's sadism is more like... Tarantino's foot fetish. It doesn't consume the entire story, but when Tarantino does a loving closeup of feet you're like, "Ah, there it is. I was wondering when that would show up." If B&W work on something, like it or not, they're going to mash the cruelty button and heighten the cruelty of canonical scenes (if it's an adaptation) in order to try to get a reaction out of the audience. It's just how they work. For some audiences, that might even be a feature, not a bug!
The thing that makes me so frothing at the mouth enraged about Benioff and Weiss is how fucking coquettish they are about their sadism. They always act so fucking surprised like they're shocked that anyone would think that the gore and the horror were the point and what drew them to the story (I know, I'm just repeating my post at this point but STILL--!).
Look, when I was a teen, I totally first started writing angst to sort of... express this vein of sadism in myself in a safe outlet like fiction. I wanted to make people cry with my writing. So I'd do things like just kill off all the characters and be so proud when a reader said they were sad after.
But that's just... really flat and amateurish angst, y'know? There are so many more sophisticated and meaningful ways to create emotion, including sadness, in an audience other than just killing off all the characters or torturing them.
But I feel I remember enough from those days (I'd like to think I've long since grown out of that impulse) to know a sadist when I see one? And Benioff and Weiss's storytelling, to my eyes again, is simply sadistic. It glories in watching people in pain and it finds ways to exaggerate that pain and the chance to exaggerate moments of pain is what draws them to the stories they like to depict.
And that's fine. Plenty of horror creators revel in gore and cruelty and it's an entirely worthy art form!
But for the most part, those horror creators know what they're doing and they're open or even joyful about the fun they have creating these horror stories! Enjoying creating horror stories or depicting suffering or even being sadistic, particularly in fiction where no one is actually getting hurt, is perfectly fine.
I just fuckin... wish Benioff and Weiss would admit that's what it is goddamn it makes me INSANE.
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whump-or-whatever · 2 years ago
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I might have made a post about this before but whatever if so I’m doing it again.
I absolutely love when whumpee is made an example of. When their torture at the hands of whumper is displayed to others to make a point.
This could be done via torture in front of a crowd; a video which is streamed, broadcasted, e-mailed, mailed, left as a physical copy for caretaker to find, etc.; whumper calling caretaker so they can hear what’s happening or whumpee wearing a wire to the same effect; sending pictures, or what have you. I suppose sending body parts could also work to some degree.
In any case, the primary reason that whumper is hurting whumpee is to put on a show for others to see. Whumper’s actions are pointless without some sort of audience.
The purpose of this can be to prove Whumper’s personal power, or whumpee’s personal weakness. It could stand for the ultimate triumph of Whumper’s cause or side, or the failure of whumpee’s. It could be a lesson to others not to follow in whumpee’s footsteps, or a fear tactic to make people do as whumper says. Or it could just be to gloat or get revenge.
The fact that someone else is witnessing what whumper is doing increases the suffering for both whumpee and the witnesses.
Whumpee might be embarrassed at how vulnerable they are and the fact that this shows weakness. They might also be upset that caretaker is going to know exactly what happened and worry that it will change how caretaker see them. Alternatively, whumpee might be upset because they know caretaker will blame themself for whats happening even though it’s not their fault.
Caretaker, of course, probably does blame themself and gets angrier the longer it goes on. If they can, they might beg whumper to stop. Knowing what exactly is being done but still being unable to help makes everything a hundred times worse.
And the entire time whumper is using the duality of the situation to their advantage. They taunt both whumpee and the audience. They humiliate whumpee and use that to instil fear or piss off those watching.
Whumper says things like: “your beloved caretaker is watching” | “see how even the mighty whumpee is no match for me” | “now everyone can see how pathetic you are” | “caretaker, if you want them come and get them” | “this should be a lesson to all of you that there are consequences for disobedience” | “I have waited for this moment for so long and now everyone will witness my revenge”
The best part of all is when whumper is trying to make a point, but in order to make the point they actually have to break whumpee, but whumpee just will not break. So the torture just goes on and on to the point where whumper is tired, whumpee is nearly delirious, and everyone watching just wants whumpee to give in to end their own suffering. Still, whumpee refuses.
This may or may not be my favourite whump trope of all time, in case y’all couldn’t tell. (Although I suppose it’s technically a combination of many tropes.)
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salmalin · 7 months ago
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So I have thoughts about Roche, Queerness, themes related to Modern Christianity in regards to Conversion Therapy, and the Sephiroth Cloning Effects in FFVIIR. Which, uh… I realize are extremely strange topics to connect, but bear with me here.
(Spoilers under the cut.)
It starts specifically with thoughts about how Roche is flamboyant and fun and weird, and he’s also unapologetic about that. Thoughts about how his fight scene in Part 2 involve him exclusively on his bike, and how he’s weak to fire. He’s dramatic, invites others to the “party”, and makes a spectacle about everything. He involves his bike in every attack, too.
I’m also thinking about that last fight scene—after the procedure. I think about how he said he was disobeying orders. So who brought him there? His friends in the army? And honestly, the moment the scene started, I knew he wouldn’t come out of the other end of the battle. Why? Well:
1. He leaps out of a container full of people instead of bringing them with him. He has abandoned the audience and his fans and very literally left them behind.
2. He destroys his bike himself and doesn’t even flinch, then he fights on foot, suddenly without his bike but still demanding Cloud’s best despite having thrown away his ability to do his own.
3. He’s not even weak to fire anymore. Which means not only has he thrown away all his strengths, but all his weaknesses, as well.
Over the course of that scene, followed by the disappointing fight to follow, it becomes abundantly clear that Roche has lost all sense of himself. His ability to maintain himself leaves even before his will and honor, which is very in-character for him. Almost nothing remains of the man he was except his honor. But also the fact that they lay this out first is such in-your-face symbolism… It’s honestly a big reason why I’ve been enjoying the remake of 7 so much.
Roche lost every bit of himself piece by piece before our very eyes, and we watch the last of him slide off and become swallowed by Sephiroth’s ego, and that honestly drives home just how powerful Sephiroth’s ego is, and just how terrifying it is. How destructive.
I also think it’s incredibly beautiful to apply a story-line like this to a character who—let’s be real here—reads as unbelievably queer. Like holy hell. This man brought a brass band to a knife fight. His ego and his honor shine through even through the end. Even after every part of him is taken from him, someone else’s will hammered into his body and mind…
The Sephiroth Cloning technique, through this lens, reads a lot like Conversion Therapy.
Those subjected to this specific brand of torture are forced to conform to the identity of another, their initial personality lost and distorted as they are directed to bend to the will and desires of another. Most of them die before reaching the end, usually through the action of moving itself. They shuffle along, mindless, with nothing to them beyond this horrible trek to serve another’s purpose—a being that is beyond the reach of mortals; a being that has died and returned to their World through the touch of their (Father in Heaven) Mother.
Cloud comes out the other end after years of this and barely even has a sense of self left, if you can even call it that at that point. Heck, if Advent Children is still canon, this means he’s still so messed up by guilt years after the fact that he doesn’t even know how to be happy, or to bring himself to be around others for long periods of time. He fundamentally does not remember who he was before, basing his identity around a man who was not compatible with the cloning technique and managed to escape. However, this puts MORE holes in his head and his story because this is not who he is. He is pretending to be something he cannot even remember. You know. Like horrible PTSD from being in a Conversion Therapy Camp for just shy of five years.
I’m gonna stop myself here or I’ll go on for ages. Regardless, food for thought.
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burst-of-iridescent · 2 years ago
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so i just went through your entire anti-lok tag and everything you said in it was SO WELL WRITTEN. i wanted to ask if you might have any analyses or anything (or just good old rants! we love being bryke haters) - about something that i noticed, which is this sort of... ATLA/TLOK dichotomy between how all aang's villains seem to be focused on gaining power/dominating the world or whatever, but the villains in TLOK seem to revolve around very pointed targeting of korra and specifically stripping her of her agency/bodily autonomy, but i don't know how to expand on that point.
(idk just. TLOK has a whole list of scenes that make me VIOLENTLY uncomfortable in a way even the worst of ATLA doesn't? and i thought you might have some input to share about it, if you don't mind me asking)
thank you sm!! i'm glad you enjoy my lok and bryke salt <33
i know what you mean, because it's something that struck me when i was watching lok as well. korra's villains are far more personal to her (particularly in what they do to her, or want from her) than azula or ozai or even zhao ever were to aang, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing (in fact it can often be good to have a personal relationship between your hero and villain; just look at how much more impactful and meaningful zuko and azula's arc was compared to aang and ozai's), there is a way to do it right and that was... not what bryke did.
we didn't need to see korra brutally bloodbent and stripped of her bending, or brutally attacked by unalaq, or brutally tortured by the red lotus or - you got it - brutally beaten up by kuvira (over and over again, might i add). i'm not saying that violence never has its place in storytelling, but it needs to have an actual purpose that's not just shock value. atla, for instance, knew when and how to utilise violence: the sight of gyatso's skeleton in the southern air temple, aang's murder by azula, even katara bloodbending... the violence in all of those scenes was necessary either to communicate vital information to the audience, or drive home the emotive and narrative significance of the moment, or both.
in lok though, bryke hardly, if ever, achieved either of these objectives - especially because it was mainly only ever korra who got the brunt of the violence. no other character is repeatedly targeted and assaulted and violated even half as much as korra is, even when they're facing the same antagonists. tenzin's fight against the red lotus in book 3 gets a tasteful pan to black (one of the few times i think bryke did use violence purposefully; knowing what not to show is just as important as knowing what to show, and leaving the audience with the dread of tenzin's fate was actually sadder and more terrifying than letting us see what happened to him) but korra's agonizing torture at the hands of the red lotus is so long and drawn-out that it begins to veer into torture porn.
imo, this can probably be attributed to two things: 1) bry.ke thinking trauma = character development because they don't know how else to write a good character arc (and they still somehow fucked it up - i will never forgive them for making korra thank zaheer, of all people, for helping her overcome her trauma, like what the absolute fuck bry.ke), and 2) they wanted lok to be "more mature" than atla, which shows both that they fundamentally didn't understand atla, or what constitutes good storytelling, and also that someone desperately needs to tell them that simply upping the violence and hamfistedly handling "complex" topics does not maturity make.
(given the way bryke has written women, i also have to side-eye the fact that the strong-willed, independent, brown female protagonist is beaten and battered and torn down far more than the peaceful, affable light-skinned male protagonist ever is, even during an actual war.)
and of course, contrary to what our dear bryke probably expected, simply brutalizing korra season after season in the name of shock value and development did not, to anyone else's surprise, make lok the better show in the end.
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leastdatablebracket · 1 year ago
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ROUND 1, MATCH 64
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Propaganda under the cut!
Lucio Morgasson
He's the villain in everyone else's route, and even in his own he's STILL kind of a dick. Like, everything bad he did before the game begins happens exactly the same, and it's only when he begins that he gets better (as in he regrets his actions and tries to fix it (it being a plague. He caused a plague because he wanted more power. (Spoilers: the plague killed the MC))). All the other romanceable characters still hate him tho so that's good. The one thing he's got going for him is that in one ending, he stepped down from being the count (idk about the other)
He literally caused a plague that kills thousands of people including THE PLAYER 😭 LIKE HE LITERALLY KILLS YOU DAWG
He is simply the worst. I'm pretty sure he purposefully infected his kingdom with the plague. He made a deal with the devil maybe. Gonna be real with you I haven't finished his storyline.
imagine a guy who is both incredibly pathetic and willing to screw over absolutely everyone for fun. lots of fun as a character, absolute dogwater as a partner
He has directly tortured or somehow harmed all the other romancable characters and every other route tries to kill the mc to take over their body, is also responsible for a plague that killed a large portion of his kingdom and *spoiler* killed the MC
I'll admit I haven't played his route but that's cause he's such a pathetic icky man that I don't think I actually can. And I pride myself in completing every route. I know people like their pathetic meow meows but I want to hit him with a brick
He acts as a manchild who needs someone to guide him through life and show him the difference between right and wrong when I'm pretty sure he's in his forties or fifties. He also abuses his power to do horrible things to people he's not in a romantic relationship with, which should tell you a lot about him.
He’s a selfish asshole who is the villain in every other route and he’s a punk ass bitch I wanna kick his ass so hard his skeleton disintegrates as he fucking deserves 
Dude, he SUCKS. He's the villain in every other route. He's a horrible husband, he forced Muriel to fight for his entertainment, he makes deals that he can't pay for. He threatens and pouts and is obsessed with people loving him. I've been with the Arcana since the very beginning and he wasn't meant to be a romance option, but the writers basically went with it because there was such a demand. So embarrassing to see Lucio fans being like Lucio did nothing wrong ever. Falling all over themselves to blame his mom or Nadia or Asra or anyone else for Lucio's selfishness and shitty behavior. It was peak uwu he's A BABY fan dementia that excuses all his shitty actions because nothing was his fault. The only sane Lucio fans are the ones that are like "he sucks so much <3 I can make him worse."
He's literally described by the devs as flaming trash. He is literally only nice in his route and the main antagonist (or at the very least a jerk) in every other route. he was a very bad husband to ex-wife. he is literally - and with 0 exaggeration- a plague upon the country he ruled. he's also a grown man who calls his fuck ups "oopsies" and honestly, i love him but that gives me the ick.
Cullen Rutherford
stupid racist cop creep whose fans cry about how hes "changed" and "you can't judge him he was addicted to magic drugs" nah he still chose to be a racist cop and abuse his power over innocent people and i hate him. the writers making him romanceable in da:i after how blatantly horrible he was in da:o and da:2 is baffling but i guess they had to appeal to the part of their audience who watch those "mafia boyfriend" videos on tiktok or whatever
He's creepy in origins, though still 100% willing to kill the female mage pc he's crushing on, as well as all the other mages trapped in the circle with him. He's the second-in-command in an even worse circle in 2, listening to and defending the increasingly obviously insane meredith until literally the end. He's one of the people still pushing for the circle system by inquisition, and yes he's going through withdrawals and working through the traumas of previous games. And to be brutally honest his was the first romance i took and while i don't remember much from it, its not worth all the girls going absolutely nuts over knockoff terrible alistair.
He's basically a cop who thinks being born a certain way can revoke personhood and by Inquisition still thinks mages are monsters to be controlled, not people. He gets a fairy tale cutesy romance that focuses on his personal struggles with addiction while showing absolutely no regard to the atrocities he committed and still thinks were justified. He can be romanced BY A MAGE and his actions and beliefs are just glossed over. He believes mages are 'not people like you (Hawke) and me', but if the Warden was a female mage he canonically had a crush on her and would deliberately hang around her despite the fact that he was her *jailer*. If that Warden romanced Leliana, there is war table dialogue in which he pesters Leliana for news of his 'former' crush despite her repeated statement that she doesn't want to talk to him about her. All this shitty behavior and lack of introspection gets swept under the rug by the game, not even giving the PC the chance to really challenge his beliefs. Like damn even Fenris could apologize when he lashed out due to past trauma with mages, and if anyone has a reason to hate mages it's Fenris. If you want an ex Templar hottie Alistair is RIGHT THERE. Tbh I know Cullen is a popular romance and I'm not here to tell anyone what they can or can't do or like in a video game, I'm just saying I think he is deeply undateable
Spends the first two games as an antagonist, fervently devoted to the cause of subjugating mages, then a bunch of "character development" happens off screen and the games treat him like he's completely reformed. However he's actions make it clear he still sees mages as dangerous and lesser. Not to mention if you romance him with an elf he doesn't pay your culture more than lip service respect like most of the devout characters 
He was a total villain in the first two games who was violently prejudiced against mages and uses one single bad experience as an excuse for it (a bad experience that is pretty much exactly what he in his job subjected graduating apprentices to, mind you, but this is never brought up). Now he says he's changed, but his words and actions say otherwise. He still distrusts mages, sympathises with the rebel Templars trying to kill them, and he never owns up to the terrible stuff he did and helped others do in the past two games. He totally knew what Meredith was doing and says he doesn't, and he still tries to defend her intentions. And you have no option to call him out on it. If you romance him as a mage, he angsts about how he might have seen you as subhuman in the past but NOW you're one of the good ones, and when you ask him if he'll kill you if you get possessed, he dodges the question. And the PC is written as being almost sad that she's a mage? Like 'can you love me despite what I am??' Also if Leliana romanced a female mage PC in the first game who is still alive, he asks her creepy questions about their relationship. Fitting considering his original purpose was to be creepy to the female mage Warden. 
I hate him and want to cause chaos. Plus his VA is an asshole.
cop
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mestos · 1 year ago
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kir appreciation post (m26 edition)
let the movie marinate in my head for a night and i still cant stop thinking about how from start to finish kir comes back to the franchise and absolutely one ups every other noc character for me
from the very beginning they introduce her character and bring in her values as a person: for an audience who doesnt remember who she is especially its very refreshing because right from the bat you know three things:
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theres an obvious chase scene going on, but she's unwilling to catch the prey, meaning her allegiances lie elsewhere
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her heart is in helping people, and risks her own cover AND life in the process
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and that she's not above feeling fear about how close she was to screwing everything she's worked up for up until that moment.
the cold open shows us three things immediately about kir that sets the scene for her role in the movie, way better than how she's essentially been forgotten by our floating timeline canon. now you can argue these traits are absolutely present across our current babygirls bourbon (furuya) and former member rye (akai), but with kir (hidemi hondou) the way she actively faces consequences for her defiance (getting shot multiple times, both in movie 20 and movie 26) sets her from a different bar from those two
her next scene is when she's tying up the kidnapped haibara
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which is a great scene overall because it furthers her position as a woman of heart and someone who stands away from the org, but also because it is an extremely subtle nod that makes use of her high perceptiveness that was present all the way from her introduction arc BACK IN EPISODE 425
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where she sees immediately through conan's cheap ass lie but makes no effort to bring light to it. in fact, that whole case, you can straight up argue she KNEW she was being wire tapped the whole time. its nice that it made a comeback 18 years later
BACK TO THE MOVIE, THOUGH, biggest fave is that in her next scene, we get to see her display the difficulty of being part of an organization that actively goes against her core principles as a person AND brings back traumatic memories for her
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as naomi is being psychologically tortured by being forced to watch her dad be assassinated, kir finds this extremely hard to watch. you are then shown the flashback of what made her into a CIA agent today which you know IS KINDA FUCKED UP
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like imagine your dad killed himself in front of you. shes shaking with rage but also the core memory of having her beloved father ripped from her hands in pursuit of this seemingly endless goose chase that she's already too deep in to let go
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and as naomi is distraught over the death of her father she is reminded of her own position; memories, the harrowing experience of loss and how she is part of the organization that robs lives away from families.
but even after all that it strengthens her resolve to do the right thing.
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GIN THIS ENTIRE MOVIE (and arguably the whole franchise) is built up to be the most terrifying enemy for all the parties involved. haibara is traumatized from her experiences with him. conan is actively uneasy at the idea of him being anywhere close. his own damn coworkers still walk on eggshells around him. YET, kir — who had already been fucking shot by gin in the very beginning already — goes toe to toe with gin and challenges him.
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THIS GIRL TAKES IT LIKE NO ONE ELSE IN THIS DAMN FRANCHISE
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she shows
a) manipulative skill directly. playing on words, feeding on doubt. psychological tactics that she had been trained by the CIA for (a claim they had made 18 years ago but never bothered to show until now)
b) that she's dauntless. she pressed herself against that gun and walked that edge knowing full well she could die should gin feel like it, but also with the confidence that she can and WILL weasel herself out of this situation
AND AT THE END OF THE MOVIE SHE DOES!!!!!!
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SHE LIVES AND MAKES IT OUT SAFELY. this girl knows her shit and will live to tell the tale. even if its just plot armour working, it damn feels good to have them show a character worth their salt this way
as an extended bonus, this woman-gaze directed promo art is crazy.
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im in love with her actually.
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frostytherobot · 6 months ago
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Maybe plenty of white leftists might have expressed annoyance at identity politics, but wanting representation in media is not a political act or should be described as the problem. By anyone. Even people who say they dont like homophobia. Or championed women 10 years ago or whatever those tags said. (im sorry i cant read them while im writing this :)
Let me also say I fully agreed with their evidence with their Scientist man schtick, that Ghostbusters 2016 was manipulated by the studios to stoke controversy because the movie was unfunny. Because they were right, it was very unfunny. I saw it. So i believe its very true that creating an artificial controversy can get people to see a movie/show. Mike knows all about that fact, he reported about it with the Ghostbusters controversy, but yet still he flames on this acolyte controversy with this both-sidesism stuff. Saying that somehow identity-politics is equal part the problem. Between people who want diversity in their media and those who do not want it. i dont see how anyone doesn't see the inherent bigotry in that. Unless you see white straightness as the default. Especially when star wars has how many dozens and dozens of shows/movies? and only relatively recently has diversity crept into it. If you don't like the acolyte show, thats ok, dont watch it, watch something else. What's the problem?
Maybe you are right that they just are not using their words correctly. I might even buy that cause i love their content, and do not want to think of them like this, but that video felt tortured in trying to appease right wing bigotry by saying not wanting diversity is on equal footing as wanting it. does anyone actually believe that? Because it sounded like he was saying that by calling identity-politics the problem
trust me i'm also fucking sucking ducking tired (lol that is a great line) with trying to calmly explain that wanting diversity in media is only political if you see "white straightness" as the default.
thank you for listening.
peace and love.
Maybe it’s just not coming across to me in the way they worded things that they inherently think of whiteness/straightness/cisgenderness as the default. But then again, they’re white guys.
I do think that while Mike seems to act like he doesn’t care about what people think of him, he feels the need to tiptoe around his language or hide it behind (not great) jokes, because it is his channel and the way he and his friends can afford to live, all things considered. It’s a problem with trying not to alienate the kind of audience he’s accumulated over the years, and the comments section on that video does indicate the kind of vapid, idiotic audience they have. That’s another conversation totally, and one that needs to be had, but not really what I’m talking about right now.
I think I do understand what you’re saying though, showing both progressive and reactionary views on media being part of the problem is kinda shitty, BUT I don’t totally think they were trying to say people seeking representation are the problem. Moreso championing the products of a corporation that don’t write well-rounded and three dimensional characters, especially doubling down to fight with reactionaries is. When we have algorithms always feeding us things that are tailor-made to make us angry, it’s a problem that we’re feeding that machine. Again, I just think they’re really bad at what they’re trying to say, especially because Mike has a tendency to poke the bear with just about everything. Another problem considering that doesn’t come off well in serious conversation, but that’s just how he is.
I will say I don’t know their full views on everything, but because of the opinions they’ve shared in the past and the discussion they had with diverse representation in other shows and how much they like them, I don’t think they’re bigoted. Maybe just stupid. But perhaps that’s just me wanting to think the best of them, because I do understand where they’re coming from even if they’re not articulating it properly, and I do understand being angry with them because of that.
I really don’t want to seem like I’m arguing blindly for two people I don’t know, but I don’t want to outright claim they’re the same kind of people who are totally opposed to marginalized people existing in media. Peace and love to you too!
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goalieflashflight · 6 months ago
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I finished watching Damsel on Netflix, and I actually really liked it. Like this is a movie that knows to keep its monster in the dark. The tension of never fully seeing the dragon in the first half added to the terror. I felt like I was in the caves with Eloidie. It is what a princess being sacrificed to a dragon would experience. It is an adventure terror that reminds me of the horror of old fairy tales. Where dragons were dragons.
Spoiler! If you are interested in watching the movie, watch it first!
This movie had a simple plot, but it proves that a good simple story can hold a viewer if you invest in the other parts of it.
The costuming and set design was intricate, and it was glamorous. The rich kingdom gleamed, it shone, and they put gold on everything. Eliodie's wedding dress was a marvel, and they showed you the layers and art it took to put it on her. That simple act made it seem higher class. Millie-Bobby is also very talented, and her gleeful expressions have the audience smiling with her as she gets wrapped up in the wonder. As a viewer, we know this will all go horrible wrong, but Eliodie is so trusting. We feel the need to believe it, too.
The main part of this is the dragon, who the city claims demands a sacrifice in order to live on the island. It is a cruel creature and requires three daughters of royal blood to be tossed down a pit into caves for the dragon to torture and kill. To get around this, the prince marries and then does a blood pact with his wife to have the royal blood in her veins as the dragon can smell it.
Seriously, the first part of this movie holds tension. At first, you are waiting for the shoe to drop, and when it does, the tension builds right again to a boiling point as the dragon hunts and plays with Eliodie in the tunnels of the cave. I was clenching, half the time watching Eliodie fall unknown heights and get stuck several times, and they do it differently enough each time that by the time it starts to feel old, they move on.
My absolute favorite part of this movie is how Eliode slowly unravels the mystery. She has found the markings of past sacrifices and is given hope she might make it out. She quickly learns and adapts, and I love that she isn't the first to do it. There is a wall of names of other women who figured it out and made sure if anyone else got stuck down there, they at least had some help. Eliodie isn't the chosen one. The only reason she gets as far as she does is thanks to the women before her, and she knows that and feels less alone. Unfortunately, she learns that no one has actually made it out alive.
She then makes the big discovery. The city lied.
I am gonna make a separate post about the dragon because she deserves her own post.
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soullessjack · 1 year ago
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something else about the soulless jack arc that rlly … peeved? me is that it gives us both Jack’s and the Winchesters/hunters’ perspectives, but fully plays out as if we the audience are unaware of what happened between jack and mary. it’s still very heartbreaking and gutting nonetheless, but it’s also very inconsistent with how it intertwines the two. following jack, we see him and mary argue and we see him melt down and kill her and we see him feel guilt and grief and fear for it. we know it was an accident and we know that he’s been driven to a point of instability by his own guilt and we know he wants to fix it and we even see jack make an effort to do so.
however, following TFW and Bobby and company, we see them argue about what could’ve happened. Cas suggests that Jack didn’t realize it was wrong (which also implies that everybody automatically assumed jack killed her purposefully, literally giving him no leeway here). Bobby declares that theres nothing left in jack but Lucifer with his human soul gone—that he’s an unstoppable monster who has to be put down just like any other MOTW. Sam and dean argue if Jack is even still Jack and how they should approach it from there. seeing Jack’s own family discuss if and how to stop him does give some tension, but there is zero suspense because —
1) sam and dean knew from Rowena that Jack was trying to resurrect mary; they saw him bring her body back and they saw the anguished look on his face when she didn’t wake up and they heard him say “it didn’t work,” —so that’s already a huge chunk missing, and —
2) we already know the answer to every question they’re posing. instead of suspense at wondering if Jack finally tipped over the edge, we’re dreading the eventual confrontation because we know what they don’t know, and what they do know concerning Rowena and Jack’s failed spell was left out of the entire conversation after it happened.
when jack is on tv and making headlines as a doomsday bringer and dropping bodies for sam and dean to trail, we can’t be in shock that he’s doing something so out of character because we saw Duma manipulate him, saw what she promised him, and we know he’s well-intentioned despite his horrific actions (also, having jack torture/murder ppl for the sake of his family is something he’s already done before, it’s just taken to a new level without his soul to hold him back). everyone is following the narrative that jack has finally gone awol or succumbed to his true nature or whatever, and that is very much played intentionally as the teetering “will he, won’t he” question hanging around jacks entire character. but again, we don’t feel any of the suspense that question typically carries in a story because it’s already answered for us.
you cannot reasonably expect the audience to be in awe and suspense and believe jack is full blown big bad now while repeatedly showing us that jack still has good intentions. Hell, even the scene where they confront jack to trick him into the Ma’lak box is frustrating, because while Jack’s dismissive blame-shifting demeanor about Mary’s death is a reasonable tipping point for sam and dean’s anger and subsequent actions, there’s also the fact that jack very bluntly says things like “I didn’t think I’d see you again / I really missed you guys / I just want everything to be back the way it was,” that purifying the world is “like hunting,” and further more he even agrees to be locked up because, soul or not, he genuinely doesn’t want to hurt anyone anymore; all which very glaringly points to him not being as far gone as we’re supposed to think and worry about.
again, it’s all still very painful and upsetting to watch, but most of the pain comes from the fact that we know the missing details that are creating the conflict and are helpless to do anything with it, rather than the conflict itself.
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my-lunaberg · 4 months ago
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Hello! I saw your post on asking ab ppl's opinions on the DSMP and had so many thoughts to share I actually went to my pc to write this, lol. Long ask incoming, sorry.
I started watching the DSMP in august of 2020, specifically right after the Techno vs. Dream duel. At this point in time, the Dream SMP tag had only like ten posts--not exaggerating, you would scroll and see the same few posts over and over again cause there was almost no fandom. I followed the series pretty much religiously all the way up to the prison break, where I then basically had to stop watching cause my life was falling apart (paying attention to streamers all day every day causes you to fail classes, who knew?)
So I guess I don't have a lot to say on the ending, other than it certainly was an ending. I think the crew did a good job with what they had, I liked the realization c!Tommy had towards c!Dream and what was once an innocent intention of server unity twisting into something else. I think using the nuke to blow everything up to start anew was a cop-out, but I also know (or at least feel like) the server itself was falling apart IRL and they had to bring it to a conclusion somehow. (Because of that, I knew the server wouldn't get a "season 2")
You mentioned how you liked it on a thematic level rather than emotional, and it really made me think about how my own interest manifested. I was certainly invested in these characters and their stories, but I only carried an emotional attachment to c!Tommy and c!Dream (and DreamXD, but only because I love deities in fiction).
I think, story-wise, the DSMP had many elements that hit hard, c!Tommy's abuse being one of them. During the prison arc, when c!Dream is being tortured constantly by c!Quackity, a large part of the fandom rooted for c!Q because c!Dream was an abuser and deserved the dehumanizing treatment. And boy do I have some opinions on that, lol. Because of the nature of the DSMP, I never thought of it as a teaching element, and your comment on that only being prevalent to children's media struck a chord--because, yeah, that makes sense. The target audience for the DSMP is a bit skewed, because it does take place in an all-ages video game, but the storyline and characters themselves would never get a G rating. I always considered the DSMP to be a bunch of people having fun exploring the different ways they can write a story/character, without any real end-game in mind. They did marvelous, too, in my opinion. I don't believe the DSMP was ever meant to be a literary marvel, or whatever the video-game equivalent is, so for a bunch of then-friends just throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sticks with the fans, it did it's job.
People now, coming into the fandom for the first time, or looking in from the outside trying to analyze it, don't understand it, imo. It's not that the narrative can only be experienced at the time it was written, because no, you can watch and re-watch it thanks to VODS and recap channels. But so many people hear stories of it being a great time and a great story with great characters and then analyze it to put it on a pedestal only to see that its a piece of fiction with many flaws. Not understanding that the SMP wasn't created to be role-playing server, that never even crossed their minds. It was meant to be a place to have fun and explore a snapshot. That's not saying the cc's shouldn't have made the story in the first place, it's just highlighting how out of control the SMP got due to influencers' fame and fun writing. It was a product of its time because everyone was together, quarantined, exploring how far they could go in a virtual setting. Sorry, rambling a bit. I just think that a sensation like the DSMP can never be repeated on such a scale, and that feeling is why so many outsiders expect so much.
Hope this makes sense, haha. Sorry it's not juicy discourse, but thanks for listening anyway.
No its fine, thank you very much for telling me this!
I initially started watching I think right before the exile arc started but by the time I figured out how to best watch it and caught up with it, it had already been going for a few days, then I followed along with it for a while until I lost interest sometime after the big clingyduo v. Dream fight. Then in late 2022 I was at a local comic con and saw someone in a ghostbur cosplay and some people carrying around a big lmanberg flag and it just made me feel so nostalgic that I wanted to rewatch/finish it, and because I thought it would be fun I also made this sideblog to liveblog it. Im pretty sure dsmp was already over or at the very least getting close to the end by the time I did that, so it gave me a kind of distance that definitely affected my experience with the show.
Like, I think if I had kept up with it throughout (what i would consider to be) its decline and then had to witness that ending after all that, I would definitely feel more negatively about it, so I understand why it was upsetting for a lot of fans, but as it stands, I can mostly just remember it as an overall good piece of media that started stumbling towards the last quarter or so and then ended in a way thats fine, although not particularly satisfying on an emotional level. Like, Dream and Tommy's whole storyline was essentially about the cyclical nature of violence and I think ending the cycle is the best way to resolve that kind of story and in theory, having them make amends before they both die together sounds good to me, but idk, in practice I just didnt like it lol. I think its mainly because their attempts to make Dream seem more sympathetic were kinda too little-too late; Dream didnt have his own pov when most people did which automatically dehumanized him in the eyes of the audience, which was brilliant for the manipulative and unpredictable villian character that he was, but I feel like the CCs didnt really realize that that was the case and didnt feel the need to show stuff from his pov, when it was actually vital imo
You said that people coming into the fandom now come into it with these expectations and I think thats true, but I feel like people who have been following it since the rp properly started also tended to put it on a pedastal because of how genuinely impressively good it was in the beginning, and then when the finale was Like That, a lot of them were insanely disappointed. I also think thats where a lot of the discourse revolving around the ending sending a bad message comes from — a lot of people think of it as something very polished like an actual tv-show when thats simply not what it is or ever was. Its just people fucking around and having fun, and when people just fuck around, theyre not really thinking about "being responsible to their audience" or whatever. Take it from me as a writer lol, I have plans for ya-novels that touch on serious topics and with those I do try to be mindful of the fact that my audience is younger (although teenagers are obviously not children and already dont need to be taught via their media anymore imo), but when Im just writing a little short story I'll usually make it as fucked up as possible just because thats fun to me, yknow
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