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zorilleerrant · 10 months

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the idea of "not liking the real characters" wrt to comics is insane to me because of like. the variety of depictions of most characters. no two writers or artist have them exactly the same way, and depending on the story, the same team could work radically differently on, say, a fluffy holiday story (esp. Valentine's day variants) vs. a dark mystery based on current events.

but also because... TV and movie fandoms do this all the time and people just don't complain the same way, trying to tell people they don't get the canon. especially if the fandom is still strong after the end of a TV series or movie franchise, they'll build up a What Happens After That world together, hitting similar beats over and over again or coming to a consensus on what later versions of the character, world, and plot threads would be. it's at best implied in the source material, there's just a vibrant community co-creating art around it. but even for ongoing series that have a specific set of characters to draw from right there

you get people messing with characters' genders, sexualities, races, religions, disabilities, etc. and using that to explore all kinds of stories. you get people going: okay, what if these two characters hated each other, actually. what if these two got along. what if the team were friends since they were kids, or what if they were all picked to be on a reality show and just met. these ones are in love. these ones were never in love. this one wouldn't even be in love anyway because they're aromantic. this one would be in love with several more people once removed from the canon context telling them not to be, or some plot element that scared them, or some character trait they needed to cultivate for backstory reasons.

and like... this is the point of fanfic and fandom. to ask what if and change little points of the story, sure, but also to ask what if and change one or a few characters completely, put in an entirely different plot, set it in a different world, set it in the same world but with such massive changes the original set of characters is largely unrecognizable. to create something that's both familiar and new, fluid, changing and growing with the people it exists for, to speak and share their stories.

and the thing is, that was already the point of comics, anyway. that's why they're so full of alternate realities and potential futures and time travel shenanigans that change the story. retellings of the same familiar narrative with a different tone or from a different perspective. explorations of things that might have happened given a different set of starting criteria - reboots and revamps and redesigns. modernized versions of older stories, in flashbacks and series set in the past. putting whole bunches of characters together to shake things up for a while, in every crossover event. they're cooperative at best, collaborative even when they aren't, and generally function in the exact same way fandom does.

so what's the difference? I mean, we have the obvious one of thinking white men are inherently smarter and more competent at telling the same stories compared to women and people of color - see, for example, how canon stories by women and especially women of color are called fannish or poisoned by fanfic or catering to fans - which fits in with the fan studies theory that masculine fandom is about being right and feminine fandom is about being new. far easier to catalog all the minutiae of a canon and form a rigid hierarchy of the thoughts that it's okay and correct to have about it than ask why someone created the story that they did. to look at a story and see where they got what they got out of it, or why they thought it should have been there when it wasn't. easier to dismiss them as not being knowledgeable enough to speak.

but I think it's mostly driven by the same thing that pits fanfic against original fiction in the general circumstance. the idea that taking stories from, say Law & Order and coming up with new characters, plots, worlds, etc. or spins on the old one is stealing and not creative and lazy writing, but doing with same with Sherlock Holmes is, of course, hard work and should be respected. as if the writing process isn't exactly the same. as if the work isn't exactly the same. but it can't be monetized in the same way, and therefore it isn't valued by a society that wants to put a price tag on every minute of every person's life. that's what drives the idea that these people are allowed to make creative decisions and those people have to respect the decisions made. the dollar buys the right to change something fundamental to the narrative.

because you can look at the acceptable canon compliant activities, which include complaining about every single author that's ever written a particular character; pointing out the faults with the character, plot holes, worldbuilding details that make no sense; saying these are the only good drawings, or these are the better stories, or these are the ones who truly understand the character or story or world, and those other ones are just going through the motions. anything that requires no information synthesis, but just repeating increasingly obscure facts.

because people will take much milder complaints about a story wrapped in the drapery of an elaborate fic and say that person hates the canon and just never liked the character in the first place, sure. but they'll also take commentary on the story and go, well, the author would never agree with what you're reading into it, therefore you're simply reading too much into things and it isn't there. or they go the author couldn't have meant that, because of the time and place of creation of that canon, and so talking symbolism and metaphor and allegory through a modern lens is doing something to the text, harming it in some way. so it's not just fanfic, fanart, and headcanons. it's the audacity of having any thought about a work you weren't explicitly paid to have.

#look i said something

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rollflasher · 3 years

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So as a result of rambling with @beevean as usual, I got inspired to make a quick post involving yet another one of the many interesting but wasted ideas ShtH brought to the table, in this case being a character.

Does anyone else think that that the G.U.N Commander had potential as a character?

Most of the time when people bring him up, they usually focus on his monstrosity of a face as a child somewhat silly motivations, mostly the idea of him being traumatized just by seeing Shadow wake up and then working for the same organization that killed Maria.

However, one thing that’s never talked about this and the game obviously never explores, which is why I count this as wasted potential, is that this apparently silly situation is a whole can of worm with a lot to unpack with the implications.

One of the most overlooked aspects about the ARK’s incident is the fact that not only it was covered up as an accident, but it was also a top secret operation, even internally at G.U.N, meaning that it’s very likely only a select few people knew what actually happened there.

So here’s the questions that could have made the Commander more interesting if they were explored...how was his perspective of this situation?

It’s common to say that the Commander joining G.U.N is really stupid since they were responsible for Maria’s death, alternatively other fans (myself included at one point) theorize that maybe he wanted to change the organization for the better, but I think the elephant in the room here that never gets adressed is that the ARK’s raid pretty much happened when he was a little child.

Maria was older than him at 12 years old, so the Commander couldn’t have been older than that.

Considering Maria is a full head taller than the Commander, with this I think it’s safe to assume he’s at the very least between the 8 to 10 years old gap.

Why do I bring this all up? Because with this in mind, the Commander’s perspective suddenly becomes very interesting and critical for his motivations.

The Commander certainly is aware of the ARK’s raid and the consequences it brought. But what was he doing when that happened? Did he personally witness any of the events that happened? Did any soldiers try to harm him? Maria certainly died despite being a child but she was escaping with Shadow, the main reason G.U.N was there to begin with, so it can’t be guaranteed he was treated with the same hostility.

In fact. Who says the Commander wasn’t simply taken away by the soldiers and told a completely different story of what happened, without seeing the full detail of the whole event? Not only that but since the Commander is just a child here, he probably couldn’t properly grasp and understand the full scope of what happened.

Suddenly, a lot of things make sense. As stupid as it is, the Commander did get horrified at the sighting of Shadow’s creation to the point that in his narration of the flashbacks, he labels Gerald as an ‘’insane’’ scientist. So, because of the Commander’s age, his growing grudge for Shadow and Gerald, and overall lack of information about what happened, suddenly it makes a lot of sense to think that the Commander shifted all the blame from G.U.N to Gerald and Shadow, because he probably didn’t have a specific person to put the blame on what happened besides them.

Not only that but, it’s not hard to think that after everything was done, he probably got told that the place had to be shut down because Gerald lost his mind and was going to cause a disaster with his creations.

And if we assume it took at least until he was 18 years old to join G.U.N, then the Commander would ONLY have Gerald and Shadow to scapegoat for everything for years, and by the time he did join G.U.N. and had a high enough ranking to know more about what happened, I’m pretty sure that because of the top secret nature of everything related to Shadow he probably only got confirmations of Gerald going insane, which would just add more fuel to his shortsighted belief of who was the real culprit of the ARK’s incident. Considering that the Commander probably wasn’t even aware of Shadow’s escape duing SA2, I don’t think it’s too farfetched to think that even he couldn’t uncover all the vital information on what truly happened during the day the ARK was shut down.

Is any of this actually explored in the game?

Sadly, no, not even close.

These are mostly HCs and questions I came up with from the top of my head, but the point I wanted to prove is that the Commander had a lot of potential and it would have been very interesting to see him get fleshed out more as a character. Even visually he stands out compared to the other humans (I don’t think it’s a coincidence that anyone involved with the Robotnik family stands out compared to other Sonic humans :P).

This is pretty much a testament to how ShtH had so many interesting ideas that would have actually helped a lot to make the game properly execute the more mature tone it was going for, but unfortunately, we know what happened and all of that potential got wasted in such a fashion that it’s even criminal.

But hey, at least there’s still some nice fanfic fuel I guess.

#sonic the hedgehog #shadow the hedgehog #shth #gun commander #sonic musing #maria robotnik #ark #ramble

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cardentist · 3 years

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I haven’t been in the star trek fandom for very long (I’ve only just started binging the series in the last couple months), so it’s been pretty surprising to find out just how negative the perception of the reboot movies are.

this isn’t coming from the perspective of someone who grew up with the series, so it hit different for me than it might for people with a different relationship to TOS, but I thought it was genuinely clever and Respectful with how it was handled.

To quote leonard nimoy: “Well the alternative timeline gives them license to escape from canon concerns. I can’t see people saying ‘they shouldn’t do that because…’ or ‘that doesn’t tie in to such and such’ because it is a different time and place. Am I right about that?” [Link]

the entire Premise is that the original series happened as it was presented in TOS, but an event late in Spock’s life caused the creation of a parallel universe in which everyone’s lives were significantly altered through two key changes to the timeline. this gives them the freedom to Both revel in fanservice And explore different facets of the characters and their relationships.

the destruction of vulcan Vastly impacts the characters and the plot moving forward, and its a detail that a lot of people take issue with. but the emotional impact of sarek admitting Directly to spock that there is value in his humanity, that his feelings Aren’t wrong, that sarek married amanda because he Loved her cannot be understated. you can read all of these things into sarek as he was in the original series, but he Never had an open conversation about these things with spock. this creates a Believable and Rewarding change in their relationship, where we get to see a different facet of them Because of the changes made. and that’s exactly the appeal. showing us pieces of these characters that we never got in TOS that are nevertheless undeniably Them.

everyone is Different yes, but they’re also fundamentally the same people at their core and that matters.

kirk’s personality obviously takes the biggest change, with him experiencing trauma at a young age, losing his father, and having an implied abusive father figure after that point. he has a harsher personality in reaction to harsher conditions, he’s spikier and harder to love. but he’s also still fundamentally a Good person whose willing to risk everything to help people. he still has what made kirk prime a good captain and a good friend.

I’m not gonna say that it’s the most nuanced story in the world, but it explores a version of kirk that was born from even Less fortunate circumstances than kirk prime, exploring a kirk brimming with potential who learned to bite back after he was kicked down. exploring those themes of trauma and loss, of insecurity and growth, and coming to the conclusion that Fundamentally He Is Capable Of Good isn’t a Bad thing. you don’t have to like it, but his growth into a better person is The Point. they deepened his flaws (all of which were present in a less exaggerated form in TOS) To Show That Growth.

and then of course there’s his relationship with spock.

people are totally justified in not liking that they had a rough start to their relationship, I usually don’t like to see that kind of thing in reboots or hollywood adaptations either, but the way people talk about it is just unfair.

Yes kirk and spock and bones have a very strong relationship in TOS, they also already know each other by the time the show starts. to look at them having to learn to get to know and trust each other when they first meet and say that it’s Bad because they were already full on ride or die for each other in the og series is silly. TOS kirk and spock had to meet and fall in love with each other too, it didn’t just happen over night kings.

secondly, the entire point of the first movie is that Even With reality itself being altered to pull them apart they are fundamentally compatible people that are Bound to each other. they meet each other on bad terms because of circumstances outside of their control, and yet they’re still pulled into each other’s orbit and find the other slotting into place next to them as if they always belonged. one of the first things that spock prime says in the movie is “I am and always will be your friend,” spock and jim are Meant for each other and the movie goes out of its way to explain that. which is what makes it so Weird to see people complaining about how they don’t like each other.

it’s a Different relationship, but it’s absolutely no less steeped in yearning or queer subtext.

speaking of queer subtext ! some people are Very unhappy with spock’s relationship with uhura.

first thing I wanna say is that making the argument that they’re doing anything that the original series hasn’t done is just, completely untrue. kirk has fallen in love with more girls in the og series than he knew what to do with, leonard nimoy was a heartthrob in his time (and he deserves it, awooga) and spock reflects that ! Spock usually turns the women who come onto him down (or when he doesn’t it’s because a plant has literally altered his mind), but there are exceptions to even that. all of three of the main boys have plenty of romance subplots, it happens. if that takes the possibility of them being queer off the table for you (which it shouldn’t, m-spec people exist) then I’m sorry to say that TOS is not exempt.

now, I can understand why Specifically This Relationship could rub people the wrong way or being disappointed that they didn’t outright depict kirk and spock as having a relationship (if not in the first movie then in the following ones after they’ve gotten to know each other), but even in that context the way I’ve seen people talk about it comes off as insensitive.

no, the relationship did not come out of nowhere. they considered having spock and uhura date each other in the original show (and you can see signs of this in the earlier episodes, where uhura very obviously flirts with him and they spend time together in their down time) before they decided against it, and spock was originally going to kiss uhura until shatner insisted that he wanted to do it (because it was the first interracial kiss on tv). [Link 1, Link 2, Link 3]

nichelle nichols was asked about this exact thing (spock and uhura’s relationship in the movie), you can read the interview in full here [Link] but I’d like to highlight this paragraph in particular:

“Now, go back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard (Nimoy) as Spock. There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60’s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, “I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.” And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in “Charlie X”)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned.”

the film makers looked at the fact there were Hints for uhura and spock, that they were Interested in exploring an interracial couple for the first time (both before and immediately after interracial couples won the right to legally get married) but Couldn’t because of the circumstances of the times and decided to Make that depiction. you don’t have to Like their relationship just because of that fact, but it’s Incredibly reductive to play down it’s significance as just a No Homo cop out. explicitly queer relationships are not the only progressive or culturally important relationships in fiction.

moreover, if you can’t imagine polyamory in the communist utopian future that’s on you.

moreover, this perception that this was a soulless cash grab is just, unfounded.

leonard nimoy returned to the role as spock for the first time in 16 years (since 1991) and this was Entirely because of the respect they had for nimoy, spock as a character, and the franchise as a whole.

Lets look at some quotes from nimoy in interviews regarding the film:

Leonard Nimoy: When I first read the script (...) I immediately contacted J.J. and said “I think it is terrific…I think you guys have done a wonderful job. There is still work to be done, but it is very clear that you and your writers know what you are doing and you know how to do this movie and know what it should be about….and I am very interested.” Then as time went by we worked things out with Paramount, but the most important things were J.J. and the script. (...) I am very pleased about that and I am very comfortable with where this is going. I think the writers have done a terrific job. They have a real sense of the characters and the heart of Star Trek and what it is really all about.

(...)

TrekMovie.com: Now in the case of the new movie you have been retired from acting for years. What was it about this one that made you want to act again and go through the make up again? What was it that made you say ‘I really want to do this?’

Leonard Nimoy: You are right, this is a special situation. First it is Star Trek and so I have to pay attention. I owe that to Star Trek. Second place is that it is J.J. Abrams who I think very highly of, he is a very talented guy. Then came the script and it was very clear that I could make a contribution here. The Spock character that I am playing, the original Spock character, is essential and important to the script. So on the basis of those three elements it was easy to make the decision. So those three things: Star Trek, J.J. Abrams, and an interesting Spock role.

[Link]

Praising the cast playing younger versions of characters from the original 1960s TV series, he [Leonard Nimoy] said: “Let me take the opportunity to say this. Everybody at this table [the cast] are very, very talented and intelligent people.”

“They found their own way to bring that talent and intelligence to this movie, and I think it shows. (...) When Karl Urban introduced himself as Leonard McCoy and shook hands with Chris Pine, I burst into tears. That performance of his is so moving, so touching and so powerful as Doctor McCoy, that I think D. Kelley would be smiling, and maybe in tears as well.”

“The makers of this film reawakened the passion in me that I had when we made the original film and series. I was put back in touch with what I cared about and liked about Star Trek, and why I enjoyed being involved with Star Trek. So, it was an easy way to come on home.”

“[In this Star Trek] they said things and showed me things, and demonstrated the sensibility that I felt very comfortable with, and I think that shows in the movie. I like it.”

[Link 1, Link 2]

again, you don’t have to like it just because leonard nimoy did, you don’t have to Agree. but the idea that nobody working on the film Cared is provably false. near everyone working on the project was already a fan of the series or were excited to be involved and did their homework. it’s genuinely a Miracle just how much of a labor of love this was, and in my opinion you can feel that through the movie itself. I’d highly recommend looking into interviews and behind the scenes details about the movies. they had a respect not just for the source material, but for leonard nimoy as a person.

there’s definitely more I Could say about this, but it’s 4 am now so I’m gonna shelve it jklfdsa

that said! it’s Fine to not like the movie, not everything is going to be suited to everyone’s taste, but the specific criticisms I’ve seen feel very off base

#star trek #kirk #spock #uhura #nichelle nichols #leonard nimoy #star trek aos #aos #star trek tos #tos #meta #long post #hello followers I write essays about star trek now

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tomatograter · 4 years

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i saw on twitter you reread the epilogues! would it be okay to ask how you feel about them now on a reread? have any of your opinions changed, for better or worse? i've really loved the art and analysis that's come out of your tumblr/twitter ever since they dropped, so i'm excited to know what you think. i couldn't get a great read on your feelings based on your tweets so that is why i am asking directly, hope that's okay!

Not much changed. That wasn't the first time I attempted to re-read the HS Epilogues, I've gone through bits and pieces of them a handful of times in the years since the original release and it's an effort I make to remind myself of events that happened because I tend to... forget. I don't mind reading books, I like those! In the hellscape that was 2020, according to my StoryGraph stats (great new site, by the way, stop using the Amazon-clawed Goodreads and transfer your account to a black led effort to diversify the current literary environment) I managed to read about 22 new books. Not too shabby for a total dumbass. The problem isn't that it was text-only, they just sort of mush together as a nondescript mass in my brain given enough time.

The first time I finished the epilogues, I said they felt like a purposefully unfinished text, but one at odds with itself (though in much more undercooked words, as I had just spent the last 2 days busy reading it) and it's an impression that has deepened since.

I do not mean anything like "Meat contradicts Candy" with this, that'd be foolish; the dissonance is the fucking point. I know how dubiously canon alternate universes work and I *enjoy* them, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted years in the circus ring that is accompanying Big 2 Comics in the hopes they'd do anything genuinely cool with that concept. Instead, I find there is a general problem in terms of internal cohesion. The Epilogues want to be a lot of things at once, be it a continuation, an expulsion, a deliberate attempt at public scorn, a somewhat genuine play in heartfelt analysis, a reinvention of what came before, or a loaded gun pointed straight at one's own foot. And in the process, they end up undermining the impact of their own strongest moments.

I don't like the Epilogues. Their lukewarm indecisiveness makes for a poor reading experience that needs far more asides, warnings and 'before you read it-'s than the book is worth. It is a text with a particularly distasteful, juvenile fixation in the show and repeated humiliation of sexual abuse victims, and manages to be more regressive about its female characters and what roles they're allowed to play than Homestuck, the 2009 Comic, ever was. And that was disappointing. It's as if the coming of adulthood must sort them into one of two categories: "wanted, desirable" woman or "unwanted, undesirable" woman. It also interacts with trans women in a really shitty way. It is a text married to traditional white-centric politics that makes an attempt to challenge them from that same perspective but falls flat on its face by pulling big moves like "making the alien-Hitler analogue character fight for a rebellion meant to represent racial liberation" and other unsavory choices. But I don't need to like the Epilogues to acknowledge them as both a text that exists and works within a shared universe.

They're pretty fertile ground for dissection and analysis. I think it's interesting how they accentuate some of the worst facets of the HS "canon"/"lore" by being incredibly blatant about their connection to stuff like the Skaianet archives, how they play with Fanservice and Fan Expectation by dedicating so much time to solving or sinking ‘The Davekat Equation’, and how they elaborate on complex facets of old characters. It's a text that acknowledges the existence of fanfiction and popular fanworks on a direct quotable basis (like "Can't sleep without holding onto a motherfucker" of 4Chords fame) as well as Fan Movements that preceded it (the also Gamzee-based "Free the clown!" Rush from 2016) it's intrinsically interactive, and that's not something you can say about a lot of media. The olive branch beckons.

I don't recommend the Epilogues. To me, the Epilogues portray glimpses of two potential, but not absolute, futures soaked in limiting metadoomer pessimism, best appreciated as "what-if" tales taking on the questions of serialization, post-myth, the self-cannibalistic nature of franchises, the abstractness of Canon, the absurdity of fanon, and why fascists like milk. The Epilogues are also not going to magically disappear or un-exist from our collective recollection anytime soon, or… ever. These statements coexist.

I think complex feelings towards media are best put to use in the making of your own art, which is unsurprising, given the fact I'm an artist and a fag, & I've personally enjoyed creating things that interact and rebuke aspects of that text. I've also been graced with the existence of wonderful art from others doing the same, may that be in the form of illustrations, written epics, analyses, comics, videos, songs, the collective transgendering of the series' main character, and all sorts of harder-to-categorize community creations. You can make the best of it. That's my favorite part of the whole ordeal, and one I don't regret one bit.

I hope this is an appropriately satisfying answer on this subject, and if it isn't, well, here's the thing; you can write a better one.

#homestuck #meta #the homestuck epilogues

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sabugabr · 3 years

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Why the Clone problem in Star Wars animated media is also a Mandalorian problem, and why we have to talk about it (PART 2)

Hi! I finally finished wrapping this up, so here’s part 2 of what has already become a mini article (you can find Part 1 here, if you like!)

And for this part, it won’t be as much as a critic as part 1 was, but instead I’d like to focus more on what I consider to be a wasted potential regarding the representation of the Clones in the Star Wars animated media, from the first season of The Clone Wars till now, and why I believe it to be an extension of the Mandalorian problem I discussed in part 1 — the good old colonialism.

Sources used, as always, will be linked at the end of this post!

PART 2: THE CLONES

Cody will never know peace

So I’d like to state that I won’t focus as much on the blatantly whitewashing aspect, for I believe it to be very clear by now. If you aren’t familiar with it, I highly recommend you search around tumblr and the internet, there are a lot of interesting articles and posts about it that explain things very didactically and in detail. The only thing you need to know to get this started is that even at the first seasons of Clone Wars (when the troopers still had this somewhat darker skin complexion and all) they were still a whitewashed version of Temuera Morrison (Jango’s actor). And from then, as we all know, they only got whiter and whiter till we get where we are now, in rage.

Look at this very ambiguously non-white but still westernized men fiercely guarding their pin-up space poster

Now look at this still westernized but slightly (sarcasm) whiter men who for some reason now have different tanning levels among them (See how Rex now has a lighter skin tone? WHEN THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN KKKKKKK) Anyway you got the idea. So without further ado...

2.1 THE FANTASY METAPHOR

As I mentioned before in Part 1, one thing that has to be very clear if you want to follow my train of thought is that it’s impossible to consume something without attributing cultural meanings to it, or without making cultural associations. This things will naturally happen and it often can improve our connection to certain narratives, especially fantastic ones. Even if a story takes place in a fantastic/sci fi universe, with all fictional species and people and worlds and cultures, they never come from nowhere, and almost always they have some or a lot of basing in real people and cultures. And when done properly, this can help making these stories resonate in a very beautifull, meaningfull way. I actually believe this intrisic cultural associations are the things that make these stories work at all. As the brilliant american speculative/science fiction author Ursula K. Le Guin says in the introduction (added in 1976) of her novel The Left Hand of Darkness, and that I was not able to chopp much because it’s absolutely genious and i’ll be leaving the link to the full text right here,

“The purpose of a thought-experiment, as the term was used by Schrodinger and other physicists, is not to predict the future — indeed Schrodinger's most famous thought-experiment goes to show that the ‘future,’ on the quantum level, cannot be predicted — but to describe reality, the present world.

Science fiction is not predictive; it is descriptive.”

[...] “Fiction writers, at least in their braver moments, do desire the truth: to know it, speak it, serve it. But they go about it in a peculiar and devious way, which consists in inventing persons, places, and events which never did and never will exist or occur, and telling about these fictions in detail and at length and with a great deal of emotion, and then when they are done writing down this pack of lies, they say, There! That's the truth!

They may use all kinds of facts to support their tissue of lies. They may describe the Marshalsea Prison, which was a real place, or the battle of Borodino, which really was fought, or the process of cloning, which really takes place in laboratories, or the deterioration of a personality, which is described in real textbooks of psychology; and so on. This weight of verifiable place-event-phenomenon-behavior makes the reader forget that he is reading a pure invention, a history that never took place anywhere but in that unlocalisable region, the author's mind. In fact, while we read a novel, we are insane —bonkers. We believe in the existence of people who aren't there, we hear their voices, we watch the battle of Borodino with them, we may even become Napoleon. Sanity returns (in most cases) when the book is closed.”

[...] “ In reading a novel, any novel, we have to know perfectly well that the whole thing is nonsense, and then, while reading, believe every word of it. Finally, when we're done with it, we may find — if it's a good novel — that we're a bit different from what we were before we read it, that we have been changed a little, as if by having met a new face, crossed a street we never crossed before. But it's very hard to say just what we learned, how we were changed.

The artist deals with what cannot be said in words.

The artist whose medium is fiction does this within words. The novelist says in words what cannot be said in words. Words can be used thus paradoxically because they have, along with a semiotic usage, a symbolic or metaphoric usage. [...] All fiction is metaphor. Science fiction is metaphor. What sets it apart from older forms of fiction seems to be its use of new metaphors, drawn from certain great dominants of our contemporary life — science, all the sciences, and technology, and the relativistic and the historical outlook, among them. Space travel is one of these metaphors; so is an alternative society, an alternative biology; the future is another. The future, in fiction, is a metaphor.

A metaphor for what?” [1]

A metaphor for what indeed. I won’t be going into what Star Wars as a whole is a metaphor for, because I am certain that it varies from person to person, and everyone can and has the total right to take whatever they want from this story, and understand it as they see fit. That’s why it’s called the modern myth. And therefore, all I’ll be saying here is playinly my take not only on what I understand the Clones to be, but what I believe they could have meant.

2.2 SO, BOBA IS A CLONE

I don’t want to get too repetitive, but I wanted to adress it because even though I by no means intend to put Boba and the Clones in the same bag, there is one aspect about them that I find very similar and interesting, that is the persue of individuality. While the Clones have this very intrinsically connected to their narratives, in Boba’s case this appears more in his concept design. As I mentioned in Part 1, one of the things the CW staff had in mind while designing the mandalorians is that they wanted to make Boba seem unique and distinguishable from them, and honestly even in the original trilogy he stands out a lot. He is unique and memorable and that’s one of the things that draws us to him.

And as we all know, both Boba and Jango and the Clones are played by Temuera Morrison — and occasionally by the wonderful Bodie Taylor and Daniel Logan. And Temuera Morrison comes from the Maori people. And differently from the mandalorian case, where we were talking about a whole planet, in this situation we’re talking about portraying one single person, so there’s nowhere to go around his appearance and phenotypes, right? I mean, you are literally representing an actual individual, so there’s no way you could alter their looks, right?

(hahahaha wrong)

And besides that, I think that is in situations like that (when we are talking about individuals) that the actor’s perspective could really have a place to shine (just the same as how Lea was mostly written by Carrie Fisher). In this very heart-warming interview for The New York Times (which you can read full signing up for their 5-free-articles-per-month policy), Temuera Morrison talks a little bit about how he incorporated his cultural background to Boba Fett in The Mandalorian:

“I come from the Maori nation of New Zealand, the Indigenous people — we’re the Down Under Polynesians — and I wanted to bring that kind of spirit and energy, which we call wairua. I’ve been trained in my cultural dance, which we call the haka. I’ve also been trained in some of our weapons, so that’s how I was able to manipulate some of the weapons in my fight scenes and work with the gaffi stick, which my character has.” [2]

The Gaffi stick (or Gaderffii), btw, is the weapon used by the Tusken Raiders on Tatooine, and according to oceanic art expert Bruno Claessens it’s design was inspired by wooden Fijian war clubs called totokia. [3]

And I think is very clear how this background can influence one’s performance and approach to a character, and majorly how much more alive this character will feel like. Beyond that, having an actor from your culture to play and add elements to a character will higly improve your sense of connection with them (besides all the impact of seeying yourself on screen, and seeying yourself portrayed with respect). It would only make sense if the cultural elements that the actor brought when giving life to a fictional individual would’ve been kept and even deepened while expanding this role. And if you’re familiar with Star Wars Legends you’ll probably rememeber that in Legends Jango would train and raise all Clone troopers in the Mandalorian culture, so that the Clones would sing traditional war chants before battles, be fluent in Mando’a (Mandalore’s language) and some would proudly take mandalorian names for themselves. So why didn’t Filoni Inc. take that into account when they went to delve into the clones in The Clone Wars?

2.3 THE WHITE MINORITY

First of all I’d like to state that all this is 100% me conjecturing, and by no means at all I’m saying that this is what really happened. But while I was re-watching CW before The Bad Batch premiere, something came to my mind regarding the whitewashing of the Clones, and I’d like to leave that on the table.

So, you know this kind of recent movies and series that depicted like, fairies in this fictional world where fairies were very opressed, but there would be a lot of fairies played by white actors? Just like Bright and Carnival Row. If you’ve watched some of these and have some racial conscience, you’ll probably know where I’m going here. And the issue with it is that often this medias will portray real situations of racism and opression and prejudice, but all applied to white people. Like in Carnival Row, when going to work as a maid in a rich human house, our girl Cara Delevingne had to fight not to have her braids (which held a lot of significance in her culture) cut by her intolerant human mistress, because the braids were not “appropriate”. Got it? hahahaha what a joy

Look at her ethnic braids!!!

One of the reasons this happens might be to relieve a white audience of the burden of watching these stories and feeling what I like to call “white guilt”. Because, as we all know, white people were never very oppressed. Historically speaking, white people have always been in privileged social positions, and in an exploitative relationship between two ethnic groups, white people very usually would be the exploiters — the opressors. So while watching situations (that every minority would know to be very real) of opression in fiction, if these situations were lived by a white actor, there would be no real-life associations, because we have no historical parameter to associate this situation with anything in real life — if you are white. Thus, there is less chance that, when consuming one of these narratives, whoever is watching will question the "truthfulness" of these situations (because it's not "real racism", see, "they're just fairies"). It's easier for a person to watch without having to step out of their comfort zone, or confront the reality of real people who actually go through things like that. There's even a chance that this might diminish empathy for these people.

Once again, not saying this is specifically the case of the Clones, majorly because one of the main feelings you have when watching CW is exactly empathy for the troopers (at least for me, honestly, the galaxy could explode, I just wanted those poor men to be happy for God’s sake). But I’ll talk more about it later.

The thing is, the whole thing with the Clones, if you think about it, it’s not pretty. If you step on little tiny bit outside the bubble of “fictional fantasy”, the concept is very outrageous. They are kept in conditions analogous to slavery, to say the least. To say the more, they were literally made in an on-demand lab to serve a purpose they are personally not a part of, for which they will neither receive any reward nor share any part of the gains. On the contrary, as we saw in The Bad Batch, as soon as the war was over and the clones were no longer useful as cannonballs, they were discarded. In the (wonderful) episode 6 of the third season of (the almost flawless) Rebels, “The Last Battle”, we're even personally introduced to the analogy that there really wasn't much difference in value between clones and droids, something that was pretty clear in Clone Wars but hadn't been said explicitly yet.

In fact, technically the Separatists can be considered to be more human than the Republic. But that's just my opinion.

So, you had this whole army of pretty much slaves. I know this is a heavy term, but these were people who were originally stripped of any sense of humanity or individuality, made literally to go to war and die in it, doing so purely in exchange for food and lodging, under the false pretense that they belonged to a glorious purpose (yes, Loki me taught that term, that was the only thing I absorbed from this series). Doing all this under extremely precarious conditions from which they had no chance of getting out, actually, getting out was tantamount to the death penalty. They were slaves. In milder terms, an oppressed minority. And again, I don't know if that was the case, but I can understand why Filoni Inc would be apprehensive about representing phenotically indigenous people in this situation. Especially since we in theory should see Anakin and Obi-Wan as the good guys.

(and here I’d like to leave a little disclaimer that I believe the whole Anakin-was-a-slave-once plot was HUGELY misused (and honestly just badly done) both in the prequels and in the animeted series — maybe for the best, since he was, you know, white and all that, and I don’t know how the writers would have handled it, but ANYWAY — I believe this could have been further explored, particularly regarding his relationship with the Clones, and how it could have influenced his revolt against the Jedi, and manipulated to add to his anger and all that. I mean, we already HAD the fact that Anakin shared a deeper conection with his troopers than usual)

Yes, Rex, you have common trauma experiences to share. But anyway, backing to my track

As I was saying, we are to see them as good guys, and maybe that could’ve been tricky if we saw them hooping up on slavery practices. Like, idk, a “nice” sugar plantation owner? (I don’t know the correct word for it in english, but in portuguese they were called senhores de engenho) Like this guy from 12 Years a Slave?

You know, the slave owner who was “nice”. IDK, anyway

No one will ever watch Clone Wars and make this association (I believe not, at least), of course not. But if we were to see how CW deepened the clone arcs, and see them as phenotypically indigenous, subjected to certain situations that occur in CW (yes, like Umbara), maybe some kind of association would’ve been easier to make.

I mean, come onnnn I can’t be the only one seeing it

You see, maybe not the whole 12 Years a Slave association one, but I don’t think it’s hard to see there was something there. And maybe this could’ve been even more evident if they looked non-white. Because historically, both black peoples and indigenous peoples went through processes of slavery, from which we as a society are still impacted today. And to slave a people, the first thing you have to do is strip them from their humanity. So it might be easier to see this situation and apply it to real life. And maybe that could lead to a whole lot of other questions regarding the Clones, the Republic, the Jedi, and even how chill Obi-Wan was about all this. We might come out of it, as lady Ursula Le Guin stated in the fragment above, a bit different from what we were before we watch it.

Maybe even unconsciously, Filoni Inc thought we would be more confortable watching if they just looked white (and because of colonialism and all that, but I’m adding thoughts here).

And of course I don’t like the idea of, idk, looking at Obi-Wan and thinking about Benedict Cumberbatch in 12 Years a Slave or something like that. Of course that, if the Clones were to play the same role as they did in the prequels, to obediently serve the Jedi and quietly die for them, that would have been bad, and hurtfull, and pejorative if added to all that I said here. But the thing is that Clone Wars, consciously or not, already solved that. At least to my point of view, they already managed to approach this situation in an incredible competent way, that is giving them agency.

2.4 AGENCY AND INDIVIDUALITY

So, one of the things I love most in Clone Wars is how it really feels like it’s about the Clones. Like, we have the bigger scene of Palpatine taking over, Ahsoka’s growth arc, Anakin’s turn to The Dark Side, the dawn of the Jedi and rise of the Empire and all that, but it also has this idk, vibe, of there’s actually something going on that no one in scene is talking about? And this something is the Clones. We have these episodes spread throughout the seasons, even out of chronological order, which when watched together tell a parallel story to the war, to everything I mentioned. Which is a story about individuals. Clone Wars manages to, in a (at least to me) very touching way, make the Clones be the heros.

Can you really look me in the eye and say that Five’s story didn’t CRASH you like a full-speed train???? He may not have the same amount of screen-time as the protagonists, but his story is just as important as theirs (and to me, it might be the most meaningful one). Because he is the first to break free from the opression cicle all the Clones were trapped into.

His story can be divided into 6 phases.

1 - First, the construction of his individuality, in other words, the reclaiming of his humanity.

2 - Then the assimilation of understanding yourself as an individual of value, and then extending this to all his brothers, not as a unit, but as a set of individuals collectively having this same newly discovered value.

3 - This makes him realize that in the situation they find themselves in, they are not being recognized as such. This makes him question the reality of their situation.

4 - Freed from the illusion of his state, he seeks the truth about it.

5 - This then leads him to seek liberation not just for himself, but for all the Clones (it's basically Plato's Cave, and I'm not exaggerating here).

6 - And finally, precisely because he has assimilated his individuality and sought freedom for himself and his brothers, he is punished for it.

His story is all about agency. Agency, according to the Wikipedia page that is the first to appear if you type “agency” on Google, is that agency is “the abstract principle that autonomous beings, agents, are capable of acting by themselves” [4], and this abstract principle can be dissected in 7 segments:

Law - a person acting on behalf of another person

Religious - "the privilege of choice... introduced by God"

Moral - capacity for making moral judgments

Philosophical - the capacity of an autonomous agent to act, relating to action theory in philosophy

Psychological - the ability to recognize or attribute agency in humans and non-human animals

Sociological - the ability of social actors to make independent choices, relating to action theory in sociology

Structural - ability of an individual to organize future situations and resource distribution

All of them apply here. And this is just the story of one Clone. We know there are many others throughout the series.

Agency is what can make the world of a difference when you are telling a story about an opressed minority. Because opressed minorities do exist, and opression exists, and if you are insecure about consuming a fictional media about opressed minorities, see if they have agency might be a good place to start. So that’s why I think that everything I said before in 2.3 falls short. Because the solution already existed, and was indeed done. Honestly, making the non-agency representation of the Clones (the one we see in the prequels) to be the one played by Temuera Morrison, and then giving them agency in the version where they appear to be white, just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

And honestly, if they were to make the Clones look like Temuera Morrison, and by that mean, take more inspiration in the Māori culture, maybe they wouldn’t even have to change much of their representation besides their facial features. As I said in part 1, I am not by any means an expert in polynesian cultures, but there was something that really got me while I was researching about it. And is the facial tattoos. More precisely, the tā moko.

2.5 TĀ MOKO

Once again I’ll be using the Te Ara: The Encyclopedia of New Zealand as source, and you can find the articles used linked at the end of this post.

Etymologically speaking,

“The term moko traditionally applied to male facial tattooing, while kauae referred to moko on the chins of women. There were other specific terms for tattooing on other parts of the body. Eventually ‘moko’ came to be used for Māori tattooing in general.” [5]

So moko is the correct name for the characteristic tattoos we often see when we look for Māori culture.

These ones ^. Please also look this book up, it’s beautiful. It’s written by Ngahuia Te Awekotuku, a New Zealand academic specialising in Māori cultural issues and a lesbian activist. She’s wonderful.

According to the Tourism NewZealand website,

“In Māori culture, it [moko] reflects the individual's whakapapa (ancestry) and personal history. In earlier times it was an important signifier of social rank, knowledge, skill and eligibility to marry.”

“Traditionally men received moko on their faces, buttocks and thighs. Māori face tattoos are the ultimate expression of Māori identity. Māori believe the head is the most sacred part of the body, so facial tattoos have special significance.”

[...] “The main lines in a Māori tattoo are called manawa, which is the Māori word for heart.” [6]

Therefore, in the Māori culture, there’s this incredibly deep meaning attributed to the (specific of their culture) tattooing of the face. The act of tattooing the body, any part of the body, is incredibly powerful in many cultures around the globe. The adornment of the body can have different meanings for these different cultures, but all of which I've come into contact with do mean a lot. It’s one of the oldest and most beautiful human expressions of individuality and identity.

And in the Star Wars universe, the Clones are the group that has the deeper connection to, and the best narrative regarding, tattoos. In fact, besides Hera’s father, Cham Syndulla, the Clones are the only individuals to have tattooed skin, at least that I can recall of. And they do share a deep connection to it.

For the Clones, the tattoos (added to hairstyles) are the most meaningful way in which they can express themselves. Is what makes them distinguishable from each other to other people. Tattoos are one of the things that represent them as individuals.

And I’m not BY ANY MEANS sayin that the Clones facial tattoos = Moko. That’s not my point. But that’s one of the things I meant when I said earlier about the wasted potential of the representation of the Clones (in my point of view). Because maybe if it were their intention to base the culture of the clones after the polynesian culture, maybe if it were their intention to make the Clones actually look like Temuera Morrison, this could have meant a whole deal. More than it’d appear looking to it from outside this culture. Maybe if there were actual polynesian people in the team that designed the Clones and wrote them (or at least indigenous people, something), who knows what we could’ve had.

Even in Hunter’s design, I noticed that if you take for example this frame of Temuera from the movie River Queen (2005), where we can have a closer look at the design of his tā moko

Speaking purely plastically (because I don’t want to get into the movie itself, just using it as example because then I can use Temuera himself as a comparison), see the lines around the contours of his mouth? Now look at Hunter’s.

I find it interesting that they choose to design this lines coming from around his nose like that. But at this point I am stretching A LOT into plastic and semiotics, so this comparison is just a little thing that got my attention. I know that his tattoo is a skull and etc etc, I’m just poiting this out. And it even makes me a little frustrated, because they could have taken so many interesting paths in the Bad Batch designs. But instead they choose to pay homage to Rambo. And I mean, I like Rambo, I think he’s cool and all that.

Look at him doing Filipino martial arts

But then, as we say in Brasil, they had the knife and the cheese in their hands (all they had to do was cut the cheese, but they didn’t). Istead, it seems like in order to make Hunter look like Rambo, they made him even whiter???

2.6 SO...

Look, I love The Clone Wars. I’m crazy about it. I love the Clones, I love their stories and plots. They are great characters and one of the greatest addings ever made in the Star Wars universe. They even have, in my opinion, the best soundtrack piece to feature in a Star Wars media since John Williams’ wonderful score. It just feels to me as if their narrative core is full of bagage, and meanings, and associations that were just wiped under the carpet when they suddenly became white. It just feels to me as if, once again, they were trying to erase the person behing the trooper mask, and the people they were to represent, and the history they should evoke.

I don’t know why they were whitewashed. Maybe it was just the old due racism and colonialism. Maybe it was meant for us to not question the Jedi, or our good guys, or the real morality of this fictional universe where we were immersed. But then, was it meant for what?

The Clones were a metaphor for what?

(spoiler: the answer still contains colonialism)

Thank you so much for reading !!!! (and congratulations for getting this far, you are a true hero)

SOURCES USED IN THIS:

[1] Ursulla K. Le Guin, 'The Left Hand of Darkness', 14th ACE print run of June, 1977

[2] Dave Itzkoff, 'Being Boba Fett: Temuera Morrison Discusses ‘The Mandalorian’', The New York Times, published Dec. 7, 2020, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/arts/television/the-mandalorian-boba-fett-temuera-morrison.html (accessed 15 September 2021)

[3] Bruno Claessens, 'George Lucas' "Star Wars" and Oceanic art' , Archived from the original on December 5, 2020, https://web.archive.org/web/20201205114353/http://brunoclaessens.com/2015/07/george-lucas-star-wars-and-oceanic-art/#.YEiJ-p37RhF (accessed 15 September 2021)

[4] Wikipedia contributors, "Agency," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Agency&oldid=1037924611 (accessed September 17, 2021)

[5] Rawinia Higgins, 'Tā moko – Māori tattooing - Origins of tā moko', Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand, http://www.TeAra.govt.nz/en/ta-moko-maori-tattooing/page-1 (accessed 17 September 2021)

[6] Tourism New Zealand, ‘The meaning of tā moko, traditional Māori tattoos’, The Tourism New Zealand website, https://www.newzealand.com/us/feature/ta-moko-maori-tattoo/ (accessed 17 September 2021)

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sepublic · 3 years

Text

I’ve enjoyed Marvel’s What if...? series so far, but I think my biggest concern with it is the premises we’ve seen so far.

Peggy being given the Super Soldier serum makes sense! But so far our subsequent premises have been a little... Out there, so to speak? They don’t feel like natural questions or conclusions that do their original source material and timelines justice, I feel.

Like, nobody has ever asked what if the Ravagers accidentally kidnapped T’challa instead, or what if Hank Pym started murdering the Avengers about the point of Iron Man 2! The stories presented in those episodes were still compelling and enjoyable mind you, with the second episode a worthy final performance by Chadwick Boseman, but;

Nobody is going to leave these respective films with these sorts of questions. And obviously, we’ve still got plenty more episodes to work with, among them concepts such as Gamora following in Thanos’ footsteps, or Ultron succeeding in uploading himself into the Vision body he created! I LIKE those, and I greatly look forward to them!

While these more out-there premises still lead to good stories, they don’t feel like a natural extension of their source material, like they’re not wrapped around a pivotal turning point that the audience is familiar with, through an option we could’ve feasibly considered to begin with. Nobody knew the relevance of Black Widow’s Odessa mission, nor cared- It was a throw away line from Captain America 2, and nobody would’ve connected it to Hope Van Dyne.

And that last one concerns me, because I feel like that episode in particular left off at a point where things were really beginning to get interesting! It felt like the show focused more on the process of this change in the timeline, and the exact moments, instead of the wider consequences and ramifications that follow afterwards, the real butterfly effect and long-term results.

It feels like we’re hanging around to focus on the first few dominoes falling, and then leave right before the big ones actually topple; Before all of the little changes can really stack up and culminate into the grand, unimaginable finale we were expecting.

It makes sense for the end result to be out of this world, but not the original starting point, if that makes sense? The idea should be that minimal change that everyone has considered can lead to enormous, unimaginable results. Each premise should work with something we’re familiar with, which then baffles us with how much that same material can really spiral into something else.

It’s like a starting equation, or again dominoes- We’re eased into something we know, something that could’ve easily happened and feels emotionally relevant to our characters... And then we gradually, then exponentially work our way up from there! Instead of being hit in the face out of nowhere with “What if T’challa became Star Lord” or “What if the Avengers had a serial killer in their midst?”

Mind you, I do appreciate the idea of the What if...? series taking advantage of its format to have more out-there, ludicrous ideas for the simple sake of fun! I just hope that isn’t the vast majority of the premises we’re working with, otherwise it’d feel like frustrating, untapped potential here. Hopefully we see more episodes focus on more relevant turns-of-events, especially since this show will probably get multiple seasons;

And again, with the idea of multiverses, I think it’d be more compelling for stories to revolve around alternate possibilities that feel all the more possible and feasible, like this very easily could’ve happened! What if...? has still been a series of compelling stories, but it does feel like the initial assumptions of the premise aren’t actually being delivered, and thus the show is a little disappointing (and perhaps frustrating) at times because of it.

At the very least, it feels like there’s no anticipation nor build up to the changes, you don’t feasibly see them coming in a way that feels totally natural, even if it does make sense in the end. Some consequences feel out of left field and less satisfying for it, because the shift from things you’d expect from this change, to entirely new story elements that you only just found out about through this timeline, has been handled too abruptly; And thus it’s less satisfying for it.

Like there’s a big difference between a turning point we know about and are emotionally familiar with, like the death of Uncle Ben, VS what if Spider-Man was also Doctor Strange??? Some of these premises feel more like arbitrary AU’s and concepts rather than a natural, alternate route to what we’ve seen beforehand and considered.

I feel the show really deviates from the feel of the butterfly effect as a result, because it’s more like the writers are mashing together various ideas or using alternate events as an excuse to explore a wholly new idea- Instead of exploring the natural flow of these alternate events and decisions and how they lead into one another. Especially since it kind of misses the actual point and idea behind that, and how things can meaningfully change from just a slight turn of events, not a huge and unimaginable one such as this!

I do like the conceptual mystery of the third episode, like figuring out WHAT was the turning point that caused all of this change; But it’d be better in some ways if that turning point was one we were familiar with, instead of a vague reference to an offscreen adventure of Black Widow’s; It kind of betrays what I was hoping for in this very premise.

At the very least I think the show should focus on these familiar turning points more. And believe me, I’d be glad to be proven wrong with the direction this show is taking, as it continues! In the end, I want these consequences to actually feel rooted in the reality of these stories.

It feels like they’re exploring a totally new or different idea they had for the story from a writing perspective, rather than an alternate possibility in-universe. It feels kind of disconnected and not grounded in what we know, as a result- It doesn’t feel like it does the events we’ve established justice.

A few ideas that I’d love to see, some less likely to be explored than others;

-What if it was Anton Vanko who became a household name, while Howard Stark and his family fell into poverty and obscurity? What if Ivan inherited the wealth and success of his father, while Tony’s abuse with his father worsened and drove him off the deep end?

-What if Captain America signed the Sokovia Accords, inspiring the rest of the Avengers to follow suit?

-What if N’Jobu kept a blind eye to the plight of his people, taking his wife and son with him back to Wakanda? What if T’challa and N’Jadaka grew up together?

-What if Loki and the Chitauri successfully conquered Earth in the first Avengers movie?

And the darkest one of all...

-What if Thanos won in Endgame?

#marvel #mcu #what if

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phoenixtakaramono · 3 years

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Hi! :) I was reading your post about SQH in TUT and it got me thinking. Since this version also wrote SVSSS, when he transmigrates does he realize his "dream" was real? Also, you hinted that he recognizes SY as the same person who transmigrated into SQQ, so now I'm wondering if he tells SY that, and how SY would react to learning he's the protagonist of SVSSS in another universe. I just love thinking about how meta this could potentially get, haha.

Can't wait to find out more! Keep up the good work!

(Follow-Up Post to: Part I, Part II)

@the-legend-of-chel 👏👏👏 Luv, good to see you in my Asks! I’m glad to hear that you’re looking forward to finding out more in The Untold Tale! And thanks for your support and encouragement. 💖

(TUT ch1 - Excerpt)

You’re right. There is a lot of meta potential with older!Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky being the MXTX equivalent in this AU—or, rather, I like to imagine him growing up to be the Stephen King equivalent of modern day China with a prolific portfolio of written works (novels and short stories, and extras). In canon, he churned out a great number of words per chapter and in a speedy amount of time! Do you guys know how miraculous that is, as a writer? I envy him so much! To be able to churn out that much content in a short amount of time, and in a scheduled regimen, is amazing! That’s basically my angle having written this into the prologue of TUT. That’s partially the reason why I wrote ch1. I liked the idea of paying homage to SVSSS and saying that it’s an actual book series in TUT universe that Airplane wrote (as funny as the idea would be, I wasn’t about to let SY be the one to write it, lol, for intellectual property reasons since the PIDW characters belong to Airplane, which would necessitate SY changing names and character appearances if he published what we know as irl SVSSS, so the best I can give SY is saying he wrote his own PIDW fanfic which basically launched his novelist career because he’d realized, hey, I actually have a knack for writing and the ever so spiteful I feel like practically every writer has had this thought before: fine, if I don’t see what I want to read, then I’ll write it myself!)

(TUT ch1 - Excerpt)

We’re approaching TUT spoiler territory so skip below if you don’t wish to be spoiled.

TUT (Meta) Spoilers

I personally love meta. If I’m to be writing a lovestory to SVSSS, there will be attempts at meta thrown into TUT. And this is one of them:

Airplane did “dream” about canon SVSSS. He basically “dreamt” about his favorite black powder fan, Peerless Cucumber

changing events of Airplane’s biggest regret Proud Immortal Demon Way. (As a writer, it embarrasses me to read my old writing. So I imagine it could be the same for Airplane.) As an author, Airplane recognized what he dreamt had potential to be a commercial success as a danmei transmigration story so basically every time he woke up, he would write pieces of what he remembers in a dream journal when the memory was fresh in his brain. It also allowed Airplane the opportunity to show his readers through the perspective of SY! Shen Qingqiu what Airplane had originally wanted to write, but integrated in a way that blends seamlessly into the reading experience. He would’ve thought it was a bit weird and strange that his brain dreamt about his past critic—whom he’d considered a small celebrity in the PIDW forums back then—aka his anti-fan-turned-accomplished-novelist in the writing industry, so he felt embarrassed that his unconscious brain must have thought very highly of the man.

So Airplane omitted any mention of Peerless Cucumber from the final draft of SVSSS (if he mentioned both “Shen Yuan” and “Peerless Cucumber,” then even SY would be like, Hey, wait one moment....). This detail will be included in a later chapter, but did you know the name “Shen Yuan” has come up in other works? Let’s ignore the variations on the Chinese written characters for the name “Shen Yuan.” There was the evil older brother character Shen Yuan from The Rebirth of the Malicious Empress of Military Lineage, a side character named Shen Yuan from a C-drama (I think he was an old minister?), and there’s even an irl visual artist named Shen Yuan. Shen Yuan (Shen Garden) is also a famous romantic garden in Shaoxing, known for the love story between Lu You and Tang Wan.

(Shen Yuan Garden - Trip Advisor Review)

Basically “Shen Yuan” in itself is not a particularly uncommon name in China (imo I would not say it’s super popular either). So when SY saw his name mentioned once or twice in Airplane’s SVSSS—aka rebooted PIDW—during his read-through, he was like, Huh, what a strange coincidence. And then dismissed it as circumstantial and thought nothing of seeing his name come up in a cutsleeve novel as the new protagonist, haha. It’s like a book written by Anne Rice; one of the titles coincidentally has the same name as mine. Now, obviously the book and main character is not based or inspired by me; I just coincidentally share the same name. If I see books which have characters with my same first name, generally I like to read them and sometimes even collect them for my bookshelves. Because there’s something just so fun and interesting about seeing your own name in a fictional piece of work.

There’s also meta joke potential about Airplane dreaming of himself being transmigrated into the cannon fodder Shang Qinghua and seeing the romantic miscommunications between the younger version of himself (his self-insert essentially) and the fictional Mobei jūn character. I can certainly say seeing such dreams would make Airplane question his sexuality and awaken something dormant in him, haha. He’d realize he might not be not as straight as he thought he was, if his brain was capable of dreaming of SY!SQQ being crushed on by LBH, and SQH being crushed on by MBJ and essentially following MBJ around calling him “my king” this and “my king” that. He’ll be sweating bullets when he meets this world’s version of MBJ, because Airplane will definitely remember how the younger Self-Insert version of himself acted toward MBJ in the SVSSS world. (It’s the classic “Just because I dreamed about it happening doesn’t mean it’ll happen here, right? ...Right? Cucumber brother, you’re a fortuneteller! Please check our eight characters for me! I have to know my marriage compatibility with Mobei jūn!”)

In a later chapter, there will be the reveal where Airplane tells Shen Yuan that he “dreamt” of a universe where a younger version of Shen Yuan—having choked on mantou (馒头) (paying homage to the donghua) or just being transmigrated in general after raging at a younger ASTTS’s writing (paying homage to the books)—transmigrated into the Shen Qingqiu we know from SVSSS who married Bing mèi. Because I think it will be hilarious when TUT’s SY finds out about the true source of Airplane’s inspiration, and he’ll naturally freak out over the fact that this is the very same Bing gē from Airplane’s Bing-gē vs Bing-mèi extra and that he’s essentially somehow stumbled on the same path as the alternative younger SY!SQQ “from Airplane’s imagination.” I will leave this open to interpretation if this does show up (it’s just an idea I’m playing with) but I might hint that there might be a higher power at play which allowed Airplane a peek into another universe—which manifested as his dreams.

I very much like this dynamic (we might see this exchange, verbatim, in a future chapter in TUT):

SY/ LBH —> He gave him a disdainful gaze.

Airplane cried inwardly at the oppression and the feeling of being wronged.

Haha, none of this is really Airplane’s fault^ though. It’s a fun parallel and if I’m still motivated when we get to the wedding and consummation chapter, we might see an epilogue where SY and Bing gē from TUT meets SY!SQQ and Bing mèi maybe. Because I think it’ll be funny with the two LBHs getting into a shouting/ fighting match about who has the “superior Shen Yuan” while the two SYs just shake their heads at their silly husbands (and potentially TUT’s SY, as the older party, can impart his fortunetelling wisdom and advice to SY!SQQ).

Personally I can’t wait when we get to those chapters, because I know it’ll be entertaining to write, haha. Personally TUT is a fun project because there’s just so much meta potential that can be incorporated and I have a lot of fun imagining the scenarios.

*Note: like always, keep in mind that these are just my current thoughts. Details are subject to change; things aren’t considered official until they show up in the final draft on AO3. :)

The Novelists’ First Impressions

The first impression SY and Airplane will have of each other will be fun. Because in their perspective, written in my notes it’s essentially like:

(Airplane seeing SY):

His first reaction was shock. Shock because the mere mortal he used to be could not conceive so much charisma being emitted by this guy.

This is definitely a man who had put all of his stats into CHARISMA.

(SY seeing Airplane):

He's suspiciously good looking in ways that normal people are not.

Ah, the Cucumberplane friendship in TUT is going to be so much fun. Not only are these two older souls who transmigrated (both are mid-aged in this universe), they’re both accomplished novelists in their own right in the writing industry. Which means with these two being celestial beings, there’s so many clichés we can playfully poke fun at.

It also makes me laugh because imagine being SY, and seeing a guy (mortal!Airplane) who exudes the same energy as these two imperial princes GIFs:

#svsss #人渣反派自救系统 #shang qinghua #moshang #shen yuan #bingyuan #binggeyuan #the untold tale #phoenixtakaramono #ask #the-legend-of-chel #phoenix talks #reply #replied #answered #I’m almost done photobashing older SY #so there’s gonna be additional visual context #for how he appears in TUT (my headcanon at least)

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techmomma · 3 years

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I made big progress with my trauma recovery the other day! I’m really proud of doing a very hard thing, and honestly doing so made me feel so much better.

Said growth involves realizing some unfun things, so y’know, look out for that under the read more, even if I consider this a hopeful, uplifting realization by the end. Christ this is long, have fun reading this word wall.

So I essentially lived in a bitter divorce household. Y’know, when the two parents have an awful, agonizing divorce that pits the kids’ loyalties against each parent and each other and themselves.

I grew up in that. Except they never actually divorced. Or separated. Not till after I’d moved out, anyway. So 20+ years of living in a household where my parents flip-flopped between “trying to make it work” and “screaming at each other and bitterly trying to corral their kids in this us-vs-them, me vs your other parent toxic tug of war.”

Why didn’t they divorce? Codependency and religious pressure because both were previous divorcees, one was an excommunicated catholic because of this, and the other was a narcissist who couldn’t admit defeat and made a promise to god to make it work for fear of the shame that would come from failing again! What a winning pair! Who definitely did not mutually cheat on one another and then act scandalized and eternally vindictive about this.

Anyway, what this meant for Steph’s psyche was every day was an eternal battleground of loyalty tests. Any disagreement was disloyalty. Saying the wrong thing could be taken as disloyalty. Yet, y’know. You don’t want to be disloyal to the other parent that you love. You don’t wanna throw them under the bus. You just wanna say what you saw happened.

Which meant every answer became this tightrope of not only validating and appeasing one parent’s ego, but also finding the diplomatic thing to say so as not to implicate the other parent, or get that parent in trouble, or appear disloyal because that too could come around to bite you in the ass. Sometimes we agreed with what one parent was saying, but taking issue with a small part or one aspect? This was seen as fully disagreeing and being disloyal.

You can imagine the pressure this put on an already socially-awkward kid, ages 4-20, to find the exact correct thing to say. It rarely worked out.

But I figured out a clever loophole early on: if I shut down, if I didn’t make a peep, if I said not one word—sure. That parent would be mad at me for not responding. They’d be made I wasn’t saying anything. They might yell louder, or guilt me, or threaten me with some form of humiliation.

But not saying anything was so, so much better than any alternative. Never once did speaking up end well.

If you know about pavlovian training, you can probably quickly see the conditioning that was set in. Parent would state an opinion, about anything. Give validation. Parent looks for validation about shitty feelings about other people? Don’t say a peep, let parent be mad, and eventually they’ll either get so frustrated they give up, or they say their piece and get whatever was on their chest off of it. Either way, they leave me alone. Maybe after three hours of screaming at me, but three hours could turn into six if I made them more mad by disagreeing or seeming disloyal.

And for the record, when I talk about loyalty, I’m not saying they were asking about actual loyalty. They wanted me to agree with their opinions. They wanted me to be on their side, their ally, no matter what the other parent said. It was all or nothing. “You’re with me or against me.”

Made all the more complicated that sometimes, if you seemed disloyal to the other parent, the supposed “enemy” in the situation, the first parent might berate you for that too. “How could you talk about your mother/father that way? How could you say those things?” Despite having been saying worse things minutes before.

They were volatile. The smallest, stupidest things could become full-blown arguments that could last for hours, at the top of their lungs. After which they might turn that to us, the kids, to get out whatever was left in their system I guess. Small questions, statements, became tests. Answer wrong, and there would be hell to pay. The most innocuous things could become loyalty tests. But most of all, the most discerning tests came when they were complaining about the other. When Dad complained about Mom, and when Mom complained about Dad. “Agree with me,” they said between lines, “Are you on my side? Aren’t they terrible?”

I just wanted to love both of my parents. I never wanted to choose.

My epiphany came when I realized that when others seek comfort from me, when looking for validation during shitty events or people being mean to them—y’know, normal things people do with friends—I was having emotional flashbacks. I was being triggered into a state of trauma, my brain receding to that familiar shutdown state. Terrified that whatever I say to comfort them, whatever I say to help them feel better, would be taken as a loyalty test. To voice even slight disagreement could be disloyalty.

My friends had never tested me. But my brain was reacting so firmly and my body so wholly that I had no idea. I try to be aware of my emotional states and how my body reacts but this shutdown response has just been so normal for so long, and such a large bodily feeling, that I never noticed what it was. And it wasn’t until watching a video about this type of situation, feeling like you have to validate someone not necessarily from a place of concern but of fear, that I realized what was happened.

I realized how deep the rabbit hole went. This has been happening for decades. At work, when coworkers would complain or even just chat normally about other coworkers, my brain was shutting down out of fear that my loyalty was being tested, I was being scrutinized for disagreement. When customers talked about my coworkers, my brain was shutting down, terrified to say the wrong thing and either disagree with said customer or throw my coworker under the bus. I shut down when friends talk about other friends, when people talk about other people and maybe I agree, but there’s an aspect or idea in the situation that I don’t agree with, or maybe I’m just seeing things differently from an outside perspective.

But every time, I was terrified. I was so scared that my brain returned to trauma, returned to that shutdown state from childhood (and some adulthood), because shutting down, previously, had always yielded the better result. Staying quiet, keeping my head empty and my thoughts blank, kept me safe for twenty years.

And now I can’t hear other people talking in a room without returning to that same shutdown state, for fear that they are arguing and I will be forced to choose between people. To love one friend more than another. Forced to pick a side, forced to soothe their emotions because if I don’t, things will be so many times worse. Heaven forbid they have disagreeing opinions, even if they’re calmly sorting them out, communicating in a healthy way. God help me if they’re actually arguing. I can’t think, I can’t even speak sometimes, voice pulled tight like I’m being strangled; I can’t even squeak out a sound. It hurts too much. It hurts so much.

Sometimes I can hear people through my earbuds or headphones and all I can do is lay on my bed and plug my ears with my fingers as tight as possible and try to hum a song, try to force a mantra to drown out the sound as I desperately try to soothe myself with some kind of stim, even if it’s just rocking side to side on the bed.

I knew I had problems with listening to people disagreeing. But I realized the other day how deep the rabbit hole goes. How often, daily sometimes, I’ve been having emotional flashbacks. How thoroughly this has been effecting my life, my relationships, my sanity.

It’s been so exhausting. Realizing how many things connect back to this central issue of toxic loyalty that I grew up with, how thoroughly engrained this trauma is in my life. Realizing I’ve been having emotional flashbacks almost every day, for decades.

I’m so tired.

But I’m really glad I did. It’s putting a name to the beast. I am finally getting to the heart of an issue that was so much larger than I originally thought but in turn, there is so much potential to truly grow and heal. If I know the beast, then I can know how to face it. I can know how to use CBT therapy for this, how to weaken it to progress. And I’m really glad for it.

I also did something very hard: directly forcing myself to face it, and told my roommates about this deep-set fear. I realized that I don’t often just talk about how I’m feeling, I usually do so in the context of like having an issue or a problem that we need to talk out or talk through. I don’t usually just say, “I’m really really scared of this thing.”

I told my roommates this realization and like the wonderful, amazing friends they are, they understood. It’s an internal problem for me, something just for me to work on. It’s my issue. But now... they know that if I go quiet when discussing other people, or leave the room when disagreements are happening, I’m not just trying to blow them off or or be wishy-washy. I imagine there have been many times in the past when a friend has come in need of support and my answer came across weird or like I was trying to change the subject and it was awkward and not what they were hoping for.

Now they know that my response might be weird because I’m having a flashback. I’m scared, my brain is shutting down and I can’t think.

And that’s okay. It’s okay to be scared in front of my friends. It’s okay to experience that trauma in front of them. I don’t have to try to pretend I’m okay or try to push through the fear when I really, really can’t. It’s okay to need a subject change or even to just listen quietly if I don’t necessarily want my friend to stop venting, I just may not be able to answer in a beneficial way. I may be shutting down and sometimes all I can do is wait it out. And that’s okay.

I don’t have to validate other people because I’m scared. Because I think I’m being tested.

I felt better not just because talking about these things helps but also because a weight was lifted. One of my main triggers is feeling like I have to respond and have to respond correctly Or Else. But now that they know, that weight is off of my shoulders. I can be afraid and not able to respond and they understand why now. I don’t have to try to keep up that lie or try to put on a face or try to push through it.

I can be scared. And letting yourself be scared is the first step to healing from it. I don’t have to pretend to not be scared anymore.

I always know I’ve hit the hammer on the head when it comes to my emotional issues because I start crying and even just typing this out made me weepy, haha. It’s a good weepy though. I made a big step, and I’m really proud of myself. My instinct was to take this and agonize quietly over it myself, find my own solution on my own and deal with it on my own. But I didn’t. I reached out, and it was scary and hard and it hurt and now I’m so, so much better off for it, and now I can really start healing. I can change this.

God I’m so tired tho. Holy shit.

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permian-tropos · 4 years

Text

Ever since my inattentive ears were opened to the fact that (English dub obviously) the Marble Nest narrator is P1 Classic HD’s Haruspex voice, I’ve had this fascination with pretending that it’s not entirely coincidence. Like the casting overlap makes sense because his voice is *chef’s kiss* and very good at delivering omens and portents, but still...

I mean the voice performances in Pathologic dubs always have to have a little jank as a treat, Go Onion Etc, the notable part for me with P2 was them using the Bachelor’s VA for like two other important characters when his vocal timbre is... very recognizable for all of them lol.

But because Classic HD Artemy being the Marble Nest narrator feels so right it got me thinking about the often overlooked interpretation of Pathologic 2 as a sequel. People mention “it’s both a sequel and a remake” but really it’s mostly a remake and the sequelness is only (so far) found in the metanarrative that also changes between the two versions, that it might as well be just a remake that breaks the fourth wall about there being a previous game.

Until the Bachelor route potentially introduces time wizardry which could provide an in-universe explanation for the same events playing out more than once, and for multiple realities to form based on different decisions.

However, if you lean into both the canonically established fact from P2 that Artemy Burakh is comprised of more than one actor, and the notion that this really is the sequel to Pathologic the original, then the P1 characters could still be said to have existed in-universe.

Hence, the notion of P1 Artemy still being real in P2 and haunting/watching over P2 Daniil and trying to lead him through his nightmares is quite alluring.

Not to mention what we see of the Bachelor campaign themes from Marble Nest + the P2 Haruspex route are really interesting when made to have a dialogue with the original game. Like in P1 you could see the Bachelor summed up as a destructive force that wants to make way for the future, and P1 Artemy is more about preservation and tradition, but in P2 Artemy is the one who is coaxed by the narrative into believing that the only way to act out of love is to commit to some kind of destruction. He cannot solely preserve, he must destroy either his town or his god. That’s the role he’s been thrust into. Ouch. Then you have the Marble Nest showing how stubbornly Daniil is preserving a little fragment of reality, living through it over and over, making himself immortal by refusing to move on and accept defeat. There are so many other themes at work here but I’m fascinated by the way the characters seem to have traded some elements of their stories with each other.

It’s really interesting to imagine that the two stories are not alternate versions of each other but part of one bigger story where one character might start off holding the ball of a particular theme but throws it to another to try a new perspective?

Anyway someone with more familiarity with the games can maybe do a better job of this than me bc they’d understand the intricate differences between the characters better (and also we need to see P2 Daniil’s full route to get a read on him) but my concluding thought is burakhovsky version-swap where P2 Daniil is handed off to P1 Artemy and vice versa.

Edit: oh yeah and that means there’s four Claras what a chaotic messssss

#pathologic #pathologic classic hd #pathologic 2 #the marble nest #my post #burakhovsky

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swanface · 3 years

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-kicks down your door- tornface all of them because I know you will for him

✨ initial thoughts / opinions

i've said it before, but when i was initially starting to get a glimpse of tornface, i thought he was forgotten elegy's big bad. all the art i'd seen of him seemed to imply that he was a villain, and he had a pretty notorious reputation even upon joining the group that made me think he was perhaps a bit problematic.

and like...yeah, i guess he is technically problematic, but as soon as i actually got to roleplay with him, i was immediately surprised. he was far from what i expected, not even a little bit the brutal bad guy i'd imagined him to be. i was really quickly fond of him, and that fondness has not faded!

🍁 favorite rp / moment

i have two to spare, one more self centered and another that just makes me go heart eyes at him. the first favorite roleplay is the one where he spoke to roseface (rosepaw then) after the reveal that she'd been spying on mountainclan. the two of them finally getting to reunite as friends made me beyond happy, and i feel like it was a super important moment for them both. he asked her during that roleplay whether she thought scoutstar was capable of changing, of being a good leader for timberclan, and i imagine roseface's support of her helped lead to her promotion. there are also just so many brilliant quotes from him within it, like when he talks to her about how killing changes you...or how it should. part of what he says there actually ties into my next favorite roleplay of his, because he discusses how he chose to spare coalstar at little pond.

that's my other favorite tornface moment because of how much growth it displayed. coalstar's death could have easily been justified in that moment, and given his history with her, he had very little reason to show mercy. given what happened at that battle, it might have been "better" for her to die. still, tornface choosing to let her live was incredibly important in the grand scheme of it all. he chose to stop more blood from being shed during a battle that ended in the loss of so much life. he chose to let coalstar walk away, and that altered both the course of the roleplay as a whole as well as his own personal track of development.

❄️ favorite quote

i can't go prowling through timberclan channels or else i'd probably pull something from the story he told roseface in their first interaction, so, beyond that...i am still so fixated on another quote he had with regard to her, back when he first learned she had gone to mountainclan.

"I wish I could make good on my offer to train you, but,” his muzzle turned up, revealing another fresh scar beneath his chin, gaze wistful as he watched the passing of the clouds, “I can’t teach you how to hurt my clanmates.”

there are so many good tornface quotes, ones more complex than that one, but i still remember it because of how simple and tragic it was in the moment. it also really just displays his character so wonderfully, how he is capable of caring about cats from mountainclan, but how he has to keep them at a distance. his clan is the most important thing to him, before anything else.

🌸 favorite relationship dynamics

huh, i wonder if my obsession with tornface and roseface's friendship shows in just how much i've mentioned them already.

okay, but really, beyond those two (who i obviously love), i think one of my favorite dynamics tornface has is with scoutstar. watching tornface go from basically ready to maim scoutstar for what she did to flurrypaw to the way he is now, ready and willing to trust her (at least as much as he can, given how many cats he's had walk out on him lately) is really special. they're not exactly perfectly suited towards being friends, but they both share a lot of similarities in how they're perceived (as "monsters" or villains, most often) and how deeply they care for those around them.

☘️ relationship dynamics with the most potential

any relationship at all! tornface is such a fascinating character, and regardless of whether or not he gets along with someone, i think every cat should meet him. he has a fascinating perspective to offer on clan life to any loners, and i also adore the unique dynamics he has with mountainclan cats. i miiight be a bit biased though.

more specifically, i'd love to see hosea and tornface talk. hosea is really doubting clan life currently, understandably so, and hearing from a cat with as much experience in it as tornface might help to make him feel slightly more at ease. i think tornface would be fond of hosea, too, as a fellow cat who would sacrifice just about anything for his family. they both seem to be the sort to shoulder the burden so that no one else has to feel it, and i'd looove to see them link up some day soon.

🌲 who I ship them with

i do hope for tornface to find love someday, but as it stands right now...no one, really? his failed romance with wolftalon is interesting and probably by favorite dynamic of the bunch, but i truly do think tornface deserves to move on from it. every other cat within his age range doesn't feel like they'd quite mesh, at least not as things stand. i imagine hemlock would drive him crazy, and rooster would likely do the same, especially given he's now taking lessons and advice from beetleheart. one day we'll find the perfect boyfriend for him, though. one day.

🍄 cross-clan ships

i was ready to say his only option would be rooster, but typing about hosea above made me realize that he's actually a viable candidate...and probably the only one tornface would tolerate. i doubt he'd ever be willing to commit to a cross-clan relationship fully, though, simply because it would likely end in disaster for the mountainclan half of the relationship. i don't think tornface would willingly ask someone to endure that; he'd just invite them to come to timberclan with him.

☀️ ideal friendships

tornface and hosea, as i've said. rufus plays them both, but tornface and lynx would be comical. i also think that a friendship between him and wildfire would be sweet...as for the new timberclan loners, from what i've seen thus far of them, i think he is developing a bond with stinger, which is also something i am 100% in support of.

🌈 something I want to happen in their character arc

i want him to live a very long life. do you hear me, rufus? i want him to be over 100 moons. i want him to be safe and unharmed.

on a similar but less joking note, i do think that retirement would be a good conclusion to his arc. a sweet one, though he might not be afforded it. he deserves to rest after serving his clan for moons and moons, especially after all the energy he has invested into supporting timberclan...and mountainclan, honestly! his bond with cats like redpath and roseface matters, even if he's not well renowned otherwise.

anyway. retirement. imagine tornface, old and graying, telling all the best elder stories. the kits flock to him and decorate his den and nest with all sorts of trinkets. he's the oldest cat in timberclan, the last to remember tales that have faded into obscurity, and his clan finally gets to take care of him in the same way he has taken care of them.

🌼 alternate name

sort of in line with the next question as i'm imagining names as per the mountainclan naming guide...i think bear- would be a suitable suffix for him, or something like ram- as a callback to the whole "animal with horns / antlers" motif. elk-, even, could work. alternatively, name him tiger-! give him the vibe of the broad shouldered brown tabby villain i was so certain he was.

bearclaw, ramclaw, elkclaw, are all good, at least as far as non-name change options go. i also think he would make for a good -throat cat by mountainclan standards, or a good -path. bearpath sounds nice. elkthroat...so many options!

if we're going for the same name change idea, though, another alternative to tornface could be tatteredface...or tatteredeye? cloudedeye as well. sooo many name thoughts, so little time.

☁️ alternate clan au

mountainclan tornface is certainly wild to think about. if he'd been in mountainclan throughout the events of the roleplay, i think they would have played out considerably differently. i imagine he would have stood up against the idea of taking moonpaw and archpaw when it occurred, and perhaps he could have played the part of an antagonist within the clan for coalstar specifically. imagine having to argue with one of your senior warriors nearly constantly. it would have damaged her reputation further, i imagine.

if he had been in mountainclan, too, i think he would have likely been one of the cats to assist in iceshadow adapting to life there. maybe he'd have better feelings on behalf of lichenfang, and could have helped him similarly to how he helped glassflower with moonpaw.

🍃 alternate rank au

not an official rank, per say, but as i mentioned in the naming concept for him had he been a mountainclan cat...storyteller tornface would be so fitting. he's already one, technically, just by timberclan standards instead. he'd fit into the role perfectly...i still think about the warm bison story.

🌺 warrior ceremony virtues

compassion for those in need, selflessness / readiness to sacrifice his own well being for his clanmates...bravery, however basic that is. generosity, too, though i suppose that fall in line with compassion. i think something to honor the hardships he's been through would be good, too, like resilience.

⚡️ who would give them lives

he just said he would never let tornstar see the light of day, but...tackling this question less on the front of utilizing already dead cats, more on the concept of just going for cats who'd want to give him a life in general as i am sorely uneducated regarding deceased timberclan cats. roseface, first of all, because i am selfish and she loves him. she'd give him a life of friendship and understanding. another mountainclan cat i'd consider would be redpath. maybe a life for the love a parent has for their kits? scoutstar, i imagine, especially if she had to die in order for him to step up...wolftalon, however tense or complex that would be. bisonheart, definitely. houndfang and mooseheart, for sure, at least if they were able to, and moonpaw (though the thought of her giving him a life is heartbreaking) would also be good candidates. for a final one, i just think inkpool would be funny. she'd be reluctant, i imagine, but would also probably recognize that he does care for timberclan despite their differences.

#tornface #forgotten elegy #ask #anonymous #i'm insane and i love him.

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kylorengarbagedump · 4 years

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After the events of TROS, if he had lived do you reckon he would have preferred to have been called Ben or Kylo? This is where I get a bit stuck - also I appreciate being challenged on my view of this I have given what you said some thought and have to say the "I wanted to hold Ben's hand" part irritating too especially and thanks for pointing out that he specifically hated the name Ben and the blatant disrespect he received.

My opinion came from my own biased feelings and I'm paralleling this with my own growth about the acceptance of my own name. I enjoy the idea that he could identify with this if he actually had the chance to receive real love and experience growth. Which he did not obviously, and as you said there is no evidence of this happening but I do like it as a potential alternative possibility.

But of course from the perspective of someone who is transgender I can completely understand why it would be important for them to see him keep and be respected for the name he has chosen. I absolutely respect anyone who feels this way.

I do like to think about what he might have done had he been able to live, for all I know he could have hated the fact that everyone (Rey and company) thought he had magically changed back into "Ben" and insist that he is still called Kylo. He could have taken several directions after his "redemption" (I believe he is the same person before and after but I'm curious about the name detail and who HE thinks he is) I'm curious to know what you think he might have done with his identity after the events of TROS. I suspect, you may think he shouldn't have been "redeemed" at all but canonically he was so I am wondering what you think was going through his mind identity wise at that time.

Unfortunately we won't ever know what he would have done, I was just offering up what I thought as one of those possible outcomes. I have to say though I'm a bit more hesitant to use the name Ben but he also appears to discard the Kylo persona during his "redemption" which is where I feel some ambiguity and would love to know what you think.

Thanks again - don't reply to this ask if the subject is doing your head in at this point it won't offend, I was going to leave you be after my last ask but your response was so interesting I couldn't resist sorry.

I appreciate the discussion. I definitely don’t believe he should not have been “redeemed,” I hear this often about me, and I don’t know where people get this idea.

I love Kylo Ren. I want him to have a chance to heal. Ultimately, I feel that would appear to the audience as a redemption arc, and it is what I feel makes the most sense for his character. But I don’t think it would be as TROS portrayed it.

I wrote what I feel is a redemption arc for him in one of my chapter fics (Little Bird), but that redemption is Kylo Ren’s acceptance of love and himself because he has been shown he is loved for ALL parts of himself. And it is Kylo Ren that acts selflessly--not a Kylo Ren aligned with Goodness because he believes in Goodness, but a Kylo Ren who is no longer conflicted about what he wants and who he is. He pursues those things with the same dogged determination he has always done, just without the doubt and self-hate this time.

So, we’re left with this idea that Kylo should accept himself, but I don’t think that means accepting the name of Ben Solo, specifically.

Kylo’s pain, his conflict arises from his inability to decide who he is and what he wants. Because his identity is both darkness AND light, he cannot comprehend them existing simultaneously. He is directionless, hopeless, empty.

It’s my opinion he’s not wrong to choose an identity away from Ben Solo--the issue is how he goes about it.

Kylo Ren is his very first grasp at autonomy, his first real grasp at control over his own identity--and he chooses something he’s always identified with since childhood. But he still cannot accept all parts of who he is. This can be achieved within the identity of Kylo, and to do so does not mean he has to reject this identity.

This means also that could’ve easily achieved this self-acceptance within the identity of Ben Solo! The name Kylo is not intrinsically linked with the dark side, just as I don’t feel the name Ben Solo is intrinsically linked with the light. They are both both. But Ben Solo is linked with that weight of legacy and tradition, a history Kylo does not want, regardless.

Kylo feels he has no choice but to eliminate his past (those who hurt him, those whose approval he still craves) in order to become himself. We know, in reality, it’s simply his inability to accept himself as he is. He doesn’t need his family’s blessing to be himself. It’s Snoke’s influence that made him feel that he had no other option, that he had to choose.

For me, his redemption is realizing his family and Snoke are wrong, and that his identity is whole and valid and deserving of love, regardless of his name.

All of this to say, I can’t really speak on how I’d feel about what’s going on for his character during and after TROS. You write, “he also appears to discard the Kylo persona during his "redemption””--but in comparison to what I’ve said above, this entire approach to me is completely wrong and not how I feel his redemption should’ve happened.

The way his character was approached in TROS was so insulting and poorly-written to me that I don’t particularly like to consider an “if he would’ve lived” scenario under these parameters to begin with. I think the entire foundation is faulty. So it’s really hard for me to give my opinion working within those guidelines, because I hate them and I think they’re stupid. LMAO

#nerd whinings #cuties #kylo ren #kylo trash #sorry if this doesn't make sense my brain is fucking fried #i got less than 3 hrs of sleep #also very sorry for my followers who don't wanna read my paragraphs upon paragraphs discussing why i hate tros #and why their approach to his redemption is stupid as fuck

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dramaticviolincrescendo · 4 years

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I've really enjoyed your recent meta takes and was wondering if you could elaborate on your thoughts on Mandy + Ian and her going for Lip as a result (from your Ian Relationships meta)? I love reading about M+I and their connection is just so dear to me 😭

(P.S Thank you for being such a beacon of positivity in the Shameless fandom! I only got into the show during lockdown last year but it's become such a comfort so it makes me so happy to see positivity right now. ❤ )

Oh my gosh, thank you so much! You’re seriously too kind! I totally sympathize with you: Shameless has shot straight to the top of my list of comfort media since watching it right around the same time, so I’m really passionate about sharing the love around. 😃🧡

To me, one of the most important things to look at in this analysis is motives—who each of these characters are, what they desire for themselves, and how those factors fit together like a puzzle.

Mandy is in such a difficult position. It’s not as easy as saying that she’s a victim of abuse and wants nothing more than to get as far from her family as possible, because that’s simply not true. In s1, we see that she’s very comfortable in her house. She and Mickey exhibit your standard sibling animosity (and competition for Ian’s attention, unbeknownst to her), she makes breakfast for Terry even though she’s obviously not super respectful to him as a parent, and she clearly has a solid understanding of where her family stands in the neighborhood. In a way, she thrives on that in the beginning. At but a word, she can do serious damage to somebody without raising a finger herself. Viewing Ian’s lack of response to her advances as an insult, she takes full advantage of that. In s2, we know that she is being abused in such a heinous way. She takes charge of the situation, although not in a manner that would save her from it. She leaves the house for a while to avoid Terry; she holds him at gunpoint and forces him to accept what he already knows so that he won’t hurt Ian. When they talk afterward, she even recounts what happened in a way that makes it sound like no big deal—he was drunk, and he didn’t know who she was, so it’s whatever. (It isn’t. We know it isn’t. If this is going to be her reality, however, then she’s going to own it. No one will look down on her, especially not a Gallagher who’s barely ahead of her in social standing.)

We’ll pause there because so much of how Mandy changed afterward is tied to Lip, but we can already see that Mandy isn’t like Mickey. Mickey stuck it out with his family and very clearly fell into the same trap we’ve heard verbalized by other male characters, namely the notion that men can’t be abused. It doesn’t matter that that is entirely inaccurate—that’s what they’ve been taught in their environment. That’s what’s normal to them. (That’s part of the dramatic irony in this scenario: we can see how damaging and traumatic these events are, but the characters don’t have our perspective. I don’t think Mickey sees what happened to him as rape, just like Ian doesn’t see what happened to him as grooming or assault. That’s for the audience to comprehend in terms of gravity and should add to our sympathy for them.)

Mandy is different. Women are abused all the time in their neighborhood. It’s visible, and it’s pervasive. In s3, Mandy immediately teaches Debbie how to defend herself against it. She didn’t have to learn. Like not seeing themselves as victims is part of the boys’ culture, fighting not to be one is part of the girls’. But there’s a contradiction in her life: the Milkoviches are the neighborhood badasses, and while she shares in that, it’s limited by her sex. There is something she will never be able to overcome in order to see the same return on her reputation that Mickey and Terry do, not unless she gets out, which will be extremely difficult on her own merits. She’s living in poverty and not doing well in school. Her prospects are limited—she told the counselor so. Based on that conversation and her history with boys even before meeting Ian, she clearly sees one surefire avenue to get out of this hole she’s stuck in: a man with the resources to get out and take her with him. If she’s lucky, it’ll even be a good man with a good heart who wants to do good in the world.

Now, let’s talk about Ian. (See what I did there?) This doesn’t need to be long because I’ve already talked so much about Ian already lately, but let’s wax poetic just a bit. Ian wants to be a good person. He wants to be able to get by, even be successful, without having to do it through scamming and stealing. He has goals and ambitions, and whatever anybody thinks of those ambitions, he did it with the mindset that he would be a hero—a protector. Along with that, he never gives up. When Mandy sets her brothers on him, he doesn’t hide forever—he seeks her out multiple times to fix the situation. When he can’t get into West Point, he doesn’t quit ROTC and ignore his dreams. He keeps going.

Not only is he someone who wants to be good for himself, but he wants to be good for others too. He shows Mandy kindness that she arguably hasn’t seen from anyone else before. He takes care of his family when hers tends to focus on themselves and their own individual survival more of the time. Ian has what she would have seen as the potential to get out, and at the time, that is what he wants. It isn’t as an escape for him, but as a way to facilitate his own dreams.

The problem? Ian is gay. We can see that that bothers her sometimes because she forgets. She goes in for a kiss in s2 and has to reel back, settling for a hug instead. She gets tired of hearing him talk about Kash in s1 and kisses him to shut him up, saying she just wanted to kiss her fake boyfriend. Ian isn’t attainable. If Ian leaves, he won’t take her with him as a partner, and she can’t ask as a friend. How desperate would that seem to someone who refuses to be put in a position where she even slightly perceives him to be pitying her? She can’t ask. Not Ian. She needs someone else, someone who is also good and capable of getting out of here—who can be convinced to even if they don’t want to. Someone she can also trust and has some sort of connection with. Someone who is a fixer, and someone she can draw in with the only thing she thinks she has of any value: her body.

That would be Lip. Not only does he meet all of those criteria at the time, but she knows she can trust him. She trusts Ian, and Ian is closer to Lip than he is to anyone else—even her. No, Lip doesn’t have any convictions or real desire to leave, but he has potential. She can work with that. She’s also there for the entire Karen saga, so she knows that Lip is someone who takes his responsibilities to the people he’s with very seriously and tries so hard to cultivate that connection. (For example, feeding him, making herself sexually available as often as possible, letting him stay with her when he can’t go anywhere else without any conditions, etc. We even begin to see her distancing herself from Ian a little bit by s3, putting all of her energy into what she has with Lip when, a year ago, they were sneaking around because she said she didn’t want Ian to know about them. That isn’t to say that Ian was seeking her out either, being quite distracted with Mickey, but it’s noticeable for me.)

Like Mickey, Mandy also has a very deep capacity for emotion and affection that seems incongruous with her personality a lot of the time. Also like Mickey, nobody brought that out in her—it was always there. As much as she seemed to hope that Lip would take care of her, the process of growing closer to him led to a level of affection. I don’t particularly read their relationship as being a deep one. Both of them were using the other, to an extent, to deal with their trauma in other areas of their lives. But that sort of thing can foster a kinship, a mutual understanding that transcends time and place and even the terrible stuff that people do to one another.

So, it doesn’t work out. Mandy is hurt and does something unforgivable. She then runs from Lip, straight into what she feels is her only alternative now: an abuser. What else is there for a girl in her position? Ian was unattainable because of his sexuality, but to someone beaten down again and again, perhaps she believed he was also unattainable because he was too good a person. Lip was unattainable despite her best efforts to bridge that gap because of what he had with Karen, but to someone beaten down again and again, perhaps she believed he was also unattainable because her position in his life was to give but never to take. With Kenyatta, all she does is give. She’s embraced being beaten down because what else is there? She leaves with him, believing there’s nothing for her there.

When she finally finds her strength, far from home but hopefully under better circumstances than when she lived in Chicago, she still follows the formula that has ruled her decision-making for some time: finding a place where she can have the control over her life that was never there before, but still with the belief that what she has to offer isn’t academic or able to be built or improved upon. Ian has worked past his perception that his body was what he had to offer, that it was what would provide him with the love he was looking for. But of course, he has. He’s had Mickey to love him when he’s healthy and love him when he’s lost a bunch of weight from a depressive episode spent in bed. He’s had his family to mess up here and there but ultimately love him so much.

Mandy doesn’t have that. She didn’t then either. She got what she wanted—she got out. She even implied that that was the most important thing by telling Ian that being born on the South Side doesn’t mean that’s where they have to stay. But Ian “got out” of the spiral of abuse he unknowingly suffered and the mindset that it fostered while Mandy didn’t. This isn’t to say anything negative about sex work, of course, only the mindset that led Mandy to this point in her life. And when she leaves the house for the last time, she looks at Lip after having asked about him, and they acknowledge each other the way that people who once knew each other do.

I’ve made the joke before that to Milkoviches, Gallaghers are like catnip. It’s flippant and funny enough when we consider how many of them have dated at one point or other. I’ve also said the Milkoviches are designed as a foil to the Gallaghers, a juxtaposed image of what they could have been had their situation been altered slightly. In s10, Mickey mentions how the Gallaghers are messed up and he’s never been happier to be a Milkovich, so there’s some awareness there that these are the two notorious families of the neighborhood, albeit for different reasons. For Mandy to see that not one, but two Gallaghers are out of reach? To perhaps feel as though she’s less than even them, or made to feel that way in her interactions with Lip? It’s the ultimate slap in the face.

She trusts Ian more than anyone else in her life, to the point where she will still call him to help her hide a body long after she’s left him and their home behind. But trusting Ian led her to loving Ian, and she couldn’t have him. Trusting Ian led her to meeting Lip, and if Ian was so good and loved Lip so much, he had to be worth it too. And to her, he was. The problem was that she felt that she wasn’t.

Self-fulfilling prophecies suck: when you’re treated like garbage by a neighborhood that sees your family as garbage and repeatedly experience things that will make you feel like garbage around people with the best intentions, you’ll start believing that you are, in fact, garbage. I think what we’ve watched with Mandy is a steady decline from a place of strength in herself and weakness in her environment to an overall place of weakness that she couldn’t escape. Not with Ian and, when she realized that wouldn’t happen, not with the only real alternative she thought she could trust since she trusted Ian so deeply.

#shameless #shameless meta #ian gallagher #mandy milkovich #abuse tw

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iaintyourbro · 4 years

Text

Mental Gymnastics and the Sanity Question

I wrote this on June 2, 2020 and put it in my drafts. I don’t think I was brave enough to post this because it states how I really feel about things and at times that can be met with resistance. Almost three months later, after more research, talking to others in the fandom, and putting everything together, I’m going to share it now. I also know how to properly add pictures in a post so I’m gonna do that too.

Obviously, this is my opinion on it. Clearly from a fandom perspective, I love Cloud and Tifa as a couple. However, I’m ultimately a “canon-y” person. I do not ship couples without knowing the whole story. I ship after I know what happens. FFVII’s OG... I wasn’t too invested in, so I didn’t really do anything with fandom. I was online for FFVIII, Xenogears, and Gundam Wing. Anything FFVII related was Vincent related.

***

Oh shipping, something I learned about recently. As a person who played FFVII at the age of 12 (well, started it) and then actually completed the game at around 13 or 14, the bulk of it went over my head. FFVIII was a clear cut romance, and probably why it was my favorite FF for 20 years. That being said, FFVII does have an ending, and does have a pretty clear relationship build between two of the characters. That’s then followed through in the additional media for the compilation.

So why is there a fight? I honestly don’t know, and this post isn’t going to answer your questions, probably. I am going to give my opinion on why there is a fight, but I’m not a psychologist. This is how I personally feel about the entire FFVII shipping war and the impact it has on people - especially during the COVID quarantine in many areas.

I played FF7R and was pleasantly surprised. I actually was scared to play it - scared it would change something I enjoyed as a teen. I was one that hoped for a 1 to 1 remake to keep the story solid. The reality is... the OG story is bare bones, which is why they ended up putting out multiple other pieces in the form of games, books, and movies. This bare bones story seemed to also create a war on who our protagonist loves. You realize how bare bones it is after playing the remake.

That’s not to say it’s not a good game or good story. The OG is a fantastic game. It’s a fantastic story. It has the same issues every other RPG has where it has major gaps in the plot due to timing, money, whatever. The difference I’d say with FFVII and the others is the story is MUCH MORE COMPLEX and MUCH MORE MATURE. The closest I’d say is Xenogears, which literally was cut short due to time and money. FFVII and Xenogears also share a lot of similar themes, which makes a lot of sense when you know the “scrapped” FFVII ideas were repurposed.

Most of us were kids or young teens when that game came out. We probably played it and understood about 60% of what was going on. We remember Cloud cross-dressing, we remember Aerith dying, and we remember Sephiroth. (And if you’re me you remember Vincent.)

The first part of the game, you’re given multiple choices on how to respond to things. This ends up being part of a “date mechanic” later on in the game. Feels like you have control, right? You’re the one who is going to determine who Cloud gets to date at the Gold Saucer! Who his life partner is!

Wrong.

Yeah, you make choices and it does determine who you go on a date with. However, you find out much later in the game that Cloud isn’t really Cloud. There are multiple hints early in the game that something isn’t right. It builds up until you literally see a ghostly figure of child Cloud standing there as Cloud beats the crap out of Aerith and gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth. Cloud hears voices during multiple scenes in the game, but meh, whatever. Seeing his child form, though, you’re like UM OKAY.

So, you build up your relationship with Aerith. You say all the right things. You get the date with her, she says she wants to meet you. Then you go to the Temple of the Ancients, a cute little part with Cait Sith giving a fortune that you and her are meant to be... and about 10 minutes later you beat the living shit out of her and hand over the Black Materia to the enemy.

At this point, you realize something is seriously wrong. Aerith disappears. The next time you see her, she dies.

Then the focus is only on getting Sephiroth. Not just because of Aerith, but Cloud is being summoned by him - you just don’t know that until you get there. Cloud realizes that he wasn’t pursuing Sephiroth, he was being pulled to him. I mean, Aerith dies and isn’t mentioned for quite some time. There isn’t any point after she floats down that they really mourn. They go snowboarding and go after Sephiroth.

Then Cloud completely breaks... when TIFA questions what she remembers and can’t give Cloud a clear answer. And this may come as a shock to somebody who was trying to woo Aerith. Why does Tifa matter so much? Cloud didn’t break due to Aerith dying, Cloud broke because Tifa didn’t know how to tell him that he wasn’t in Nibelheim 5 years ago (that she knew of).

They don’t really build the relationship up between Cloud and Tifa until pretty much after this point. They talk about the Promise, they talk about some other quirks, they infer that Tifa has a crush on Cloud.

You really aren’t aware that Cloud has a crush on Tifa until The Lifestream, when IT ALL COMES OUT. To be fair, Cloud didn’t show romantic interest to either girl in OG prior to the Northern Crater, honestly. More so until the Lifestream.

The Crisis of Losing Control

You also lose the ability to make choices at this point in the game.

During the first part, you are acting almost as Cloud’s false persona. The cool SOLDIER Cloud that makes nice or nasty choices towards other characters. You determine, to an extent, how Cloud is. But it’s an illusion.

And Aerith tells us this in the Remake - that whatever you’re feeling now isn’t real. This isn’t a love confession, this is a warning. If you played the OG, you know she’s referring to his false persona.

The reason I think this gets so heated is because of the loss of control, the feeling of betrayal that the one you thought was supposed to be the one is gone, and all along Cloud held deep feelings for Tifa. You’re also probably young and inexperienced when this happens. The romantic notion of Romeo and Juliet, if you will.

I think it also depends on how you deal with Aerith’s death. Personally, it wasn’t a huge deal to me. I was like damn did that just happen? I wouldn’t say I was sad, though, or upset. More shocked? Sadly at this point in my life, I’d already lost family members, and moving on is very important. I also didn’t notice Cloud doing ANYTHING romantic in the OG. It felt one sided all around until much, much later on. So I didn’t see it as Cloud losing the love of his life. I actually had no idea why he was upset except they were friends.

There’s a clear end to the potential romance between Cloud and Aerith - she dies. Now in the world of FFVII, Aerith is a Cetra and has the ability to communicate with the planet and apparently those that are still living once she dies. However, that doesn’t mean that Cloud is going to pursue a relationship with her... that is... crazy, right?

Apparently.. Not?

This is where I start having an issue with shipping. The story clearly shows that Aerith dies. The story clearly shows that Cloud harbors deep feelings for Tifa during the Lifestream scene. Both of these events are set - there are no alternatives, no optional scenes. At no point during the Lifestream is anybody else mentioned as a romantic interest. Tifa dominates this guy’s subconscious. But to some, there does seem to be an alternative.

The most extreme I’ve seen is that Cloud should kill himself to be with Aerith. This is disturbing on so many levels, so I’m not going to talk about it much. This not only misses the point of one of the big themes in FFVII, but also just shows how desperate people are to get what they want.

The other is that Cloud actually only loves Aerith and Tifa was his living rebound. The story doesn’t support this. Watch the Lifestream scene and it’s obvious. Once again, we have no mention of anybody else during this.

The mental gymnastics it takes to put Cloud and Aerith together as the canon couple blows my mind.

***

And that’s where I stopped. I had noticed at the time there was major pushback on anybody who denied romance between Cloud and Aerith. I guess I just wasn’t ready to deal with it nor did I have the confidence I suppose. Now I’m confident in that after three months of observing, learning, and contemplating.

So I’ll finish with a few thoughts because apparently in fandom land three months is a long time.

COVID-19 Quarantine

The majority of the world went under quarantine earlier this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Personally, the last time I saw my cubicle was March 9. Not that I’m sad, because I do enjoy working remotely. But it’s not just my cubicle, restaurants, zoos, everything was shut down and is slowly opening up but I’m not exactly keen on going somewhere unless I absolutely have to.

This gave me a ton of time to do other things. FFVII Remake came out, so I played that and, yeah, I got really obsessed and went into this depressed void of what the fuck am I going to do until the next part comes out? Hello, online fandom. Hello, insanity.

I’ve learned that the FFVII online fandom - specifically the shipping fandom - is crazy in good and bad ways. This, of course, was reignited by the Remake’s release, but most likely really amplified due to people being under quarantine. This is an escape from reality for a while. An escape from the constant depressing news cycle.

Before I discovered fandom I was obsessed with COVID-19 information. I watched all kinds of new broadcasts, Dr. Fauci, random people on YouTube, and it was overwhelming after a while. Remake saved me from that. I played Remake before I went into fandom. I played it as a non-shipper. I was slammed in the face with how amazing they portrayed Cloud and Tifa.

Self Insertion

The other piece that seems to be apparent in angry shippers is the idea of self insertion. This simply means that you put yourself in the place of the character, so you begin to take things personally. If a person self inserts as Cloud, and their personal preference is Aerith, they become angry when Aerith dies and we find out who Cloud TRULY loves. If somebody self inserts as Aerith, they’re upset that they were never a real love interest.

Most people go “oh okay, I see.” and move on and/or move to fanon if they truly wanted those two together.

Then there’s the people who, for 20+ years, spread false information, attack, stalk, and go ballistic anytime there’s any type of evidence that they were wrong.

The Big Ego

Nobody likes being wrong. FFVII has a major twist in it that causes you to go into a daze, and I do think they do a great job with that. Aerith isn’t it. Her death isn’t the big twist. It’s Cloud that’s the big twist. Going through the Lifestream (and even prior at the Northern Crater) reveals like ohhh shiitttt everything you know about Cloud is a lie.

And he even tells us it’s an illusion. Imagine that?

I am very strongly swayed by evidence from official resources. I suppose I take a scientific approach to this. I cannot find canon evidence that Cloud ever held any romantic feelings towards Aerith. Therefore, to me, Cloud never held any romantic feelings for anyone but Tifa because that’s what the game and resources tell us.

Luckily, the Remake is making things clear. The devs are being more direct when answering questions.

There was never supposed to be ambiguity or “player choice”. The fact that you lose player choice at one point and there are fixed events in the game (The Lifestream) that cannot be changed should have been evidence enough. The fact that there are not multiple endings should have been a clue.

With all of this being said, it shouldn’t matter what I say if you want to ship a fanon ship. I do not see any romance between Cloud and Aerith and I never have. There is no supporting evidence of it. I generally am boring - I don’t try to fanon too much stuff that I have other evidence for. I’ll do it in jest.

My opinion on Cloud and Aerith in general is I don’t think they work or ever could work. That shouldn’t stop you from enjoying the ship. You cannot claim canon on a ship though unless there’s evidence. There’s way too much twisting, lying, and deletion to justify certain ships. This is one of them.

#cloti #cloud x tifa #ff7 shipping war #ff7 ltd #ff7 #ff7 spoilers #ff7r #ff7r spoilers #don't let canon stop your fanon #canonny #yeah i'm boring #final fantasy vii #final fantasy vii remake #cloud strife #tifa lockhart

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terramythos · 4 years

Text

TerraMythos' 2020 Reading Challenge - Book 34 of 26

Title: The Harbors of the Sun (2017) (The Books of the Raksura #5)

Author: Martha Wells

Genre/Tags: Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, Adventure, LGBT Protagonist, Female Protagonist (Kind Of), Third-Person

Rating: 9/10

Date Began: 12/11/2020

Date Finished: 12/25/2020

Moon and his friends are reeling from the betrayal of a former ally. With several members of their party kidnapped, and a mysterious weapon stolen by their new enemy, the chase is on. He and the others must infiltrate unknown territory to rescue their missing family and avert a deadly calamity. At the same time, a massive army of Fell are gathering to attack the Reaches. The Raksuran colonies of Indigo Cloud and Opal Night must join forces to defend their home before they are overrun and destroyed.

“But you don’t want to be near Fell,” Moon guessed. Considering what had happened to Shade when they had been captured by the Fell flight northwest of the Reaches, it was only rational.

“No, I don’t.” He looked at Moon hopelessly. “Is that weak?”

Consorts were supposed to be weak and delicate and need everything done for them, but Moon and Shade were different, and nothing was going to change that. And “weak” wasn’t really the right word for what Shade meant. What he was trying to say was harder to express. It was giving into feelings other people thought you were supposed to have about things that shouldn’t have happened to you in the first place, but were not like the actual feelings you did have. There wasn’t a word for that in Raksuran or Altanic or Kedaic or any other language Moon knew. Moon said, “It’s not weak.”

Full review, some spoilers, and content warning(s) under the cut.

Content warnings for the book: Graphic violence and action. Implied past r*pe (it’s the same plot point as previous books). Genocide is a big plot point of this one.

The Harbors of the Sun is the fifth, and presumably final, book in the Raksura series. And boy what a ride it's been. I've enjoyed settling in with a longer fantasy series. While I'm excited to read something new, I'll miss these characters and the captivating world they inhabit. Since this is probably the last installment, I'll look into book-specific details, but also provide some series retrospective commentary. I won't touch on everything, just things that stick out to me.

From what I can tell, The Harbors of the Sun is a little controversial with long time fans. I can see why, and it's the same reason I added "Epic Fantasy" to the tag list. Most of the series has focused on small-scale conflicts centering on the Raksuran characters. There's hints of large-scale stuff in The Siren Depths, but that crisis is averted, so thus not fully realized. However, these last two books contain a much longer storyline, and the stakes in The Harbors of the Sun are potentially catastrophic not just for the Raksura, but thousands if not millions of people. Think The Lord of the Rings trilogy vs The Hobbit in terms of ramp up.

Due to the larger scale, this book also embraces a rotating point of view. The original trilogy is entirely from Moon's perspective, and The Edge of Worlds only dips its toes into alternate POVs. The Harbors of the Sun features multiple character groups all doing important things to the story, so there's lots of perspective shifts. While I still consider Moon the main character, he shares the stage with many others.

Personally, I like the scaled up conflict. It seems like a natural progression of the series. While not every point of view wows me, finally seeing some stuff from Jade and Chime's perspective (for example) is really cool. While Moon is an enjoyable protagonist, he often interprets characters and motivations wrong. Getting someone else’s take on a given situation or character is refreshing.

One of my favorite alt-perspectives is Frost. She's a young child and minor character, but serves as the perspective for a tense political discussion between Raksuran queens about impending war with the Fell. This whole section serves to convey important information, but also as great worldbuilding to see how Raksura interact with, indulge, and care for their young. While we have seen adult perspectives such as Moon happily playing with his children, it's interesting to see a child's view of life in the colony. This is emblematic of Wells' approach to the series and her technique when crafting this world. It would be easy to pick a major character like Malachite and tell this section from her perspective, but we would miss many interesting details. Using Frost isn't something I would necessarily consider, and is just a cool writing choice.

By the end, The Harbors of the Sun feels like it's been a long, epic journey-- more so than the shorter adventures of previous books. A LOT of stuff happens in this book, and there's so many different interesting places the characters visit. Even events at the beginning feel distant compared to where everything ends. There is a unique appeal in this kind of story. Maybe it's not for everyone, but I personally like the change of pace and tone, especially as a finale.

For a series retrospective, the Fell are an interesting subject to discuss. I'm impressed with what Wells pulls off with them. One of my criticisms of The Cloud Roads is the Fell aren't especially compelling villains. They're an evil race of shapeshifters, distantly related to Raksura, who infiltrate cities and eat the population. The Fell are parasites-- they have no real culture or ability to survive except through the destruction of others. They’ve recently taken to destroying Raksuran colonies, kidnapping survivors, and forcing them to produce crossbreeds. Obviously, this introduces two narrative problems. One, "evil races" in fantasy are boring and already done ad nauseam. Two, how can one make the Fell interesting when they're literally irredeemable monsters?

The answer, it turns out, is a nature vs nurture debate, and it's mostly approached through the Fell/Raksura crossbreed characters. While these ideas have been explored throughout the series, The Harbors of the Sun brings it full circle. The Cloud Roads' main antagonist is Ranea, a crossbreed queen raised by the Fell. She sees the crossbreeds as a natural way to strengthen the Fell and make them an even deadlier force than they are by default, since Raksura have their own set of powers and traits. She’s soundly defeated, supposedly concluding the subplot. Until, of course, it comes back.

In The Siren Depths, we meet several crossbreed characters who are, for all intents and purposes, Raksura. Malachite rescued them as children and chose to raise them as Raksura of Opal Night. The result is that, while Shade and Lithe are aware of their heritage, they've experienced love and acceptance throughout their lives. Sure, they may have some physical traits and abilities that differ from the others, but often these have practical uses in the story. Their families don’t treat them differently because of this. As characters, they're just as Raksuran as everyone else.

In The Edge of Worlds, we're introduced to another crossbreed queen, a foil to Ranea. While she makes some early mistakes, unlike Ranea she seems capable of reason and compassion. We learn her name and backstory in The Harbors of the Sun. Consolation was born in a Fell flight, but most of her childcare came from her father, a captive Raksuran consort. Hence her name, which is painful with context and distinctly Raksuran. Apparently, the consort's influence didn't just extend to Consolation, but to other outcasts in the flight. After his death, Consolation and her allies slaughtered the leadership and took over the flight, and seek a place to live in peace independent of traditional Fell corruption and influence.

One of the interesting things about this are the kethel and dakti in Consolation's flight. Throughout the series, these two Fell castes are basically treated as cannon fodder. If you need a big intimidating enemy, throw in a kethel. For annoying imp swarms, dakti. The Raksura tend to think of these creatures as intelligent animals, not people. They only talk when a Fell ruler takes over their mind. They're treated badly among the Fell; cannibalized them when food stores get low, thrown into suicidal situations, etc.

In The Harbors of the Sun, the kethel and dakti can speak, much to the surprise of the main cast. Consolation's main advisor is a crossbreed dakti named First. There's also a kethel (presumably pureblooded Fell) that follows and assists Moon and Stone throughout the book and engages them in conversation. They clearly distrust it, but over the course of the story go from calling it "the kethel" to "Kethel", like an actual name. It has ulterior motives-- to convince the Raksura to help Consolation-- but is certainly not "inherently evil", nor just an intelligent animal. This is counter to everything we've been led to believe through the series, and it shocks multiple characters and challenges their way of thinking.

The argument at the end is that the Fell are evil because of a poisonous ideology and the total control of the progenitors (female rulers). Raised with compassion and better treatment, they're very similar to the Raksura. I'm honestly impressed with where the Fell end up vs where they start in The Cloud Roads. I don't know if Wells planned this arc for them from the beginning, but I like the amount of nuance she introduced without it feeling gross or trite. Does it work 100 percent? I'm not sure; I'd have to reread the series in more depth. But based on my current thoughts, it’s a good development; it doesn’t “redeem” or justify the Fell, but demonstrates the ways in which future generations can change and break the cycle. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows, and many characters clearly distrust these “new” Fell (understandable considering the sheer trauma most of the cast has), but it’s an interesting take nevertheless.

On another subject, we never really learn what was up with the forerunners! Except they really liked flower motifs, I guess. I kind of like this; there's an impression that the long forgotten civilizations of the past were technologically advanced, but no one knows what happened to them. It's just an enduring mystery of the series. Ultimately it doesn't matter to the characters, and that's fine.

Also, we now have confirmation that The Serpent Sea is basically filler. It felt like a side story when I read it, but part of me hoped it would have some relevance to these last two books. Nope. I’m a little disappointed in this, but it’s not the end of the world, just something to keep in mind when reading the series. I think the book is entertaining on its own merits, but there’s little to connect it to the main story besides the characters.

Overall I recommend these books to people looking for a non-traditional fantasy series. There's no humans or typical Tolkein-esque fantasy races. Instead there are dozens of sapient humanoid species invented whole cloth, with some obvious real world inspirations. The shapeshifting Raksura are lovingly crafted, with lots of interesting detail about their culture, customs, and daily life. I love how they feel like believable people but are distinctly nonhuman. As a setting, The Three Worlds is deadly and fascinating, with lots of interesting places and people. There's always a sense of a big, vibrant world, even when the books choose not to explore it in depth. While The Harbors of the Sun feels like a finale to the current Raksuran story, I wouldn't be surprised if Wells visits this setting in the future.

There are some short story collections in this series which I do plan to read sometime in 2021. However, I'm going to take a break from the Raksura series and dive into something else for now. Thanks for reading!

#2020 reading challenge #taylor reads #9/10

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adventure-hearts · 4 years

Text

( PART 1: DA + ASTROLOGY )

PART 2: DIGIMON ADVENTURE + MBTI

Taichi - ESTP Yamato - INFP Sora - ENFJ Koushirou - INTJ Mimi - ESFP Jou - ISTJ Takeru - ENFP Hikari - ISFP Daisuke - ESFP Miyako - ENFP Iori - ISTJ Ken - INFJ

Discussion and Commentary below!

If you’ve read some of my previous headcanons about the MBTI, and in particular this very popular post from four (!) years ago, you may find I’ve changed my mind a lot.

An important thing about this typology (or any other one, really) is that it’s quite easy to just look into some websites and make decisions based on the keywords used to describe each type. Which is what I used to do. Keywords are helpful to help us get the “basic picture” (hence why I quote them in this post), but now I believe that you have to read actual theory in order to understand the subtle differences between each type and make more educated guesses.

Since then, I’ve been reading more deeply into MBTI and the Functions. Consequently, the way I understand the MBTI has changed significantly, and so have my Headcanons.

It’s been particularly interesting to learn about the Inferior Function, or the “dark side” of each personality type. The more I read about it, it became surprising that how it seemed to describe most of the adventure kids’ characters arcs incredibly well. This is another reason why the combination Chosen Children + MBTI is such a fascinating and fun thought exercise!

It should be noted that different authors can have widely different interpretations of types, which is why, for the sake of simplicity and coherence, I’ve only read 3-4 main sources when preparing this post. And I tried stay away from popular MBTI websites and resources that exist around the internet, most which can have a slightly misleading/superficial vision of each type.

However, this doesn’t mean my HCs are “RIGHT” or that other people can’t have better ideas. I’m as biased about the characters as anyone else. I’d be very happy to hear alternative takes!

***

Taichi - ESTP Dominant function: Se

Flexible and tolerant, they take a pragmatic approach focused on immediate results. Theories and conceptual explanations bore them - they want to act energetically to solve the problem. Focus on the here-and-now, spontaneous, enjoy each moment that they can be active with others. Enjoy material comforts and style. Learn best through doing.

Taichi is pretty easy to type, and most ESTP descriptions fit him nicely. Thompson notes the archetype of ESTP is James Bond and Xena the Warrior Princess; I think the character of Taichi, who represents Courage, fits in the same tradition — a bold, impulsive, adventurous leader who is good at strategizing and is able to make though decisions, but is is also very charismatic and charming. Taichi’s tendency to become thoughtful, introspective, and indecisive under stress can be explained by the inferior function, Ni.

Yamato - INFP Dominant function: Fi

Idealistic, loyal to their values and to people who are important to them. Want an external life that is congruent with their values. Curious, quick to see possibilities, can be catalysts for implementing ideas. Seek to understand people and to help them fulfill their potential. Adaptable, flexible, and accepting unless a value is threatened.

By contrast, Yamato is always the most difficult to type! I ended up using INFP rather than INFJ, because I think it makes more sense for his dominant function to be Fi (introverted feeling): “Due to the introverted nature of Fi, INFPs’ status as feelers is not always evident from without. When immersed in Fi, they can seem a bit cool, aloof, or indifferent.“ (Drenthe). This type is pretty well representative of Yamato’s caring, passionate and caring side, and especially his conflict during Adventure is beyond, his search for self and meaning. Yamato’s more critical, aggressive, angry, and impetuous side is easily explained by him falling under the influence of the inferior function of this type, Te.

Sora - ENFJ Dominant function: Fe

Warm, empathetic, responsive, and responsible. Highly attuned to the emotions, needs, and motivations of others. Find potential in everyone, want to help others fulfill their potential. May act as catalysts for individual and group growth. Loyal, responsive to praise and criticism. Sociable, facilitate others in a group, and provide inspiring leadership.

Another character who’s relatively difficult to type. I see Sora as being in the middle of many of the Preference axis, hence why I initially typed her as something pretty difference different. But now I’m pretty convinced her dominant function is Fe, even though she’s probably only 51% Extroverted. She leans more towards iNtuition than Sensing: Sora’s definitely someone who can pick up things intuitively, especially when it comes to human relationships. So, ESFJ could probably work as well, but I see her as more of an NF type than a SJ type. Sora’s tendency to become hypersensitive, stubborn and withdrawn when under stress? That’s the inferior function, Ti.

Koushirou - INTJ Dominant function: Ni

Have original minds and great drive for implementing their ideas and achieving their goals. Quickly see patterns in external events and develop long-range explanatory perspectives. When committed, organize a job and carry it through. Skeptical and independent, have high standards of competence and performance - for themselves and others.

This is an example of how learning more about Functions made me change my mind! I believe Koushirou is the text-book definition of INTJ and the Ni function. Koushirou isn’t just someone who thinks — he creates knew knowledge and connects theoretical possibilities. One of the effects of the inferior function of this type, Ni, is an “Obsessive focus on external data”, which means that they can become obsessed with controlling small details, which is what Koushirou tends to do under stress.

Mimi - ESFP Dominant function: Se

Outgoing, friendly, and accepting. Exuberant lovers of life, people, and material comforts. Enjoy working with others to make things happen. Bring common sense and a realistic approach to their work, and make work fun. Flexible and spontaneous, adapt readily to new people and environments. Learn best by trying a new skill with other people.

Mimi is a rather obvious fit for this type, not only with her bubbly and happy exterior, but also her naïveté and compassion towards others (Crest of Purity).

Jou - ISTJ Dominant function: Si

Quiet, serious, earn success by thoroughness and dependability. Practical, matter-of-fact, realistic, and responsible. Decide logically what should be done and work toward it steadily, regardless of distractions. Take pleasure in making everything orderly and organized - their work, their home, their life. Value traditions and loyalty.

Jou’s type seems pretty straightforward. The characteristics of this type to fit him (and the Crest of Honesty) very well. The inferior Function of this type is Ni, manifested as impulsiveness and catastrophizing — classic Jou moves whenever he looses his cool.

Takeru - ENFP Dominant function: Ne

Warmly enthusiastic and imaginative. See life as full of possibilities. Make connections between events and information very quickly, and confidently proceed based on the patterns they see. Want a lot of affirmation from others, and readily give appreciation and support. Spontaneous and flexible, often rely on their ability to improvise and their verbal fluency.

Takeru is REALLY hard to type. Mostly because, just like his brother, he isn’t as transparent as he seems. Behind that charming, open, happy façade, Takeru runs deep. I ended up choosing ENFP is described as the most optimistic of all types (Crest of Hope), and they are very charismatic and inspiring as well. The “dark side” of this type can be hopelessness or depression (see also: tri. Chapter 3!)

Hikari - ISFP Dominant function: Fi

Quiet, friendly, sensitive, and kind. Enjoy the present moment, what's going on around them. Like to have their own space and to work within their own time frame. Loyal and committed to their values and to people who are important to them. Dislike disagreements and conflicts, do not force their opinions or values on others.

Hiakri is another one whose type isn’t obvious, but maybe for different reasons than the other characters I hesitated about — we just don’t see enough of her. I think you can make a strong argument for her being an Intuitive type, but ultimately I think Fi represents her better.

Daisuke - ESFP Dominant function: Se

I know it’s reductive to say Daisuke and Taichi have different personality type, but that’s easy to understand if you see them as being in different stages of type development.

Miyako - ENFP Dominant function: Ne

I’ve always thought Takeru and Miyako are pretty alike, hence why I think they would both fit this type.

Iori - ISTJ Dominant function: Si

Again, Iori and Jou are pretty alike, although at different stages of their personality development. I could see Iori a ISTP/ISTJ, too — to be fair, I haven’t made up my mind totally about him.

Ken - INFJ Dominant function: Ni

Seek meaning and connection in ideas, relationships, and material possessions. Want to understand what motivates people and are insightful about others. Conscientious and committed to their firm values. Develop a clear vision about how best to serve the common good. Organized and decisive in implementing their vision.

I’m just going to go and give Ken INFJ, although I’m not entirely sure it is the best fit. Ken is incredibly complex, but Ni seems to describe him fairly well. And certainly, the “dark side” of Ni, Se, can very well explain why Ken developed his Digimon Kaiser persona.

BONUS

A brief summary of the 8 Functions:

Introverted Intuition (Ni) collects conscious and subconscious information, and then synthesizes it to produce convergent impressions, insights, answers, and theories. It sees deep causes, patterns, and laws underlying sense data. It is characteristically penetrating and insightful.

Extraverted Intuition (Ne) surveys and creatively recombines a breadth of ideas, associations, patterns, and possibilities. It is characteristically innovative, divergent, open-ended, and non-discriminating. Outwardly, Ne users may present as scattered, random, quirky, witty, and ideationally curious.

Introverted Sensing (Si) retains, consolidates, and recollects historical and autobiographical information. It attends to and draws on a concentrated body of past experiences, routines, and traditions (i.e., the “tried and true”). It forgoes the constant pursuit of new or broad experiences, finding safety and security in stability and consistency. It also surveys inner bodily sensations.

Extraverted Sensing (Se) seeks extensive outer stimulation in the “here and now”—new sights, sounds, tastes, experiences, etc. It is open-ended and non-discriminating with respect to new experiences. It can also be associated with image-consciousness and observation skills, displaying a keen eye for detail. Outwardly, it may manifest as a recurrent desire for activities beyond talking (“Let’s do something!”).

“Introverted Intuition (Ni) collects conscious and subconscious information, and then synthesizes it to produce convergent impressions, insights, answers, and theories. It sees deep causes, patterns, and laws underlying sense data. It is characteristically penetrating and insightful.

“Introverted Thinking (Ti) utilizes deep and nuanced logic to examine techniques, problems, concepts, or theories. It seeks self-regulation and self-optimization through the development of personal skills, methods, and strategies. It takes a skeptical and reductive approach toward knowledge.

Extraverted Thinking (Te) uses explicit logic, including standardized methods, measurements, policies, and procedures, to make systems and operations more rational, efficient, or effective. This often involves working as part of an institution, be it corporate, scientific, academic, etc. Outwardly, Te delivers opinions and directives in a firm, direct, measured, and unemotional fashion. It may at times be perceived as harsh, tactless, or unsympathetic.”

“Introverted Feeling (Fi) explores and refines personal tastes and feelings, contributing to a strong sense of personal uniqueness. It is self-regulating and self-controlling, working to maintain inner emotional and moral order. It may also emotionally invest in a limited number of love objects, be they persons, animals, hobbies, or causes.

Extraverted Feeling (Fe) surveys a breadth of human emotions, values, and morals. It strives toward interpersonal rapport, consensus, and continuity. It can also be associated with effective communication and social intelligence, facilitating growth and transformation in others. Outwardly, it delivers opinions and directives in a direct yet tactful way, often with a sense of emotional urgency and conviction.

in My True Type, A.J. Drenth

MBTI RESOURCES

A.J. Drenth. “My True Type”

Lenore Thomson. “Personality Type”.

A.J. Drenth. “The 16 Personality Types”.

The 16 MBTI® Types https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/the-16-mbti-types.htm

Naomi Quenk, “Was That Really Me?”

#series: typing the chosen #digimon #headcanons #personality types #mbti #sorry but Tumblr formatting is a MESS;;;; I hope it's more readable now!

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