#bruce would be 139

[oifaaa]

The replies on this post are making me think a lot of you aren't registering how long 100 years is

Okay so hear me out what if he stayed dead for 100 years ... thoughts?

[hood-ex]

Having a Homer Simpson "d'oh!" moment because I missed/forgot some pivotal information on the Zur situation that happened a few issues ago.

Zur created Failsafe and erased the memory of how to stop him. He also created a batcave under Bruce's batcave. (Batman #127 / Batman #136)

Bruce literally mentioned that Zur "poisoned the well" and put doubt in Bruce's head and heart. Bruce questioned, "What else has he done?" (Batman #136)

Bruce locked Zur away in his mind, and they were at odds with each other because Bruce didn't want Zur taking over, and Zur wanted out because he perceived Bruce's insecurities and doubts as his mind being "under attack." He wanted out to fulfill his purpose. (Batman #136)

In a flashback, Zur took over Bruce's body without Bruce even knowing. One minute, Bruce was trying to solve a case, and in the next, Zur was doing his own thing. When he gave up control to Bruce again, Bruce simply carried on with his previous thought as if he hadn't been personality swapped at all. (Batman #136)

Zur tried to tell Bruce what to do. Bruce snapped and yelled at him, reminding Zur that he (Zur) was in a cage. Bruce reassured himself, "He's in a cage. I'm in control." (Batman #137)

Now there was a moment in Batman #136 where Bruce started to panic because he couldn't see the future or whatever, so he didn't know how he could save everyone he loved, and he wondered how far he could go before it all burned away.

And then in Batman #137/Catwoman #57, Bruce realized that he no longer owned the manor, and he kinda started spiraling and talking about how even if he lost the manor/his wealth, he wouldn't lose his soldiers.

"They can't be bought. But they can be saved."

Notice the fact that Bruce used the term "soldiers." Because guess what? In Batman #127, Zur referred to Tim and the other members of the family as soldiers, and Bruce angrily corrected him.

"And Tim isn't my soldier! HE'S MY SON!"

SOOO. Do you see where I'm kinda going with all this? Bruce not knowing when Zur takes over? Zur being able to erase memories? Zur using "soldier" in his own dialogue color, and Bruce using the term "soldier" in his own dialogue color? Bruce saying that Zur "poisoned the well."

AND NOW, in today's issue, Zur forcibly took over to try and kill Joker again. And you know what was said?

Bruce: No! I'm in control! I'm--

Zur: You're not in control, we (Zur) are.

BRUCE CANNOT CONTROL ZUR. HE CANNOT. He thinks he can, and he thought he had it under control, but Bruce doesn't have shit under control!

[umbrellacam]

ok sorry I just have to yell about this real quick -

Nightwing (Vol. 2) #139 - The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, part 6 Dick: "I let you make the choice for yourself...because I knew you'd make the right one."

Dick didn't know shit, lmao!! "Because I knew you'd make the right one" my ass lol.

Let's rewind two minutes shall we:

Dick: "Tim... Listen... There are no easy answers... But you have the right to make the choice for yourself." || Dick (internal narration): "No-win. If I stop him, I don't trust him. If he goes through with it, I shouldn't have trusted him. C'mon, Tim..."

He doesn't know what choice Tim is going to make, whether his grief will overcome him and he'll take the Lazarus water or not, and has in fact been physically fighting Tim this entire issue to stop him by force. But ultimately he knows it's Tim's right to choose for himself, and decides to hope, and have faith in his brother.

And he has that faith rewarded, and reaffirms it afterward, despite the fact that he wasn't sure.

And paralleling that moment of "yes of course I knew you had it":

Red Robin (2009) #12 Dick: "How'd you know? How did you know I'd be there to save you?" || Tim: "You're my brother, Dick. You'll always be there for me."

TIM DIDN'T KNOW SHIIIIIIIIT HGKLJDKFLSD

At least not consciously! Being caught by Dick is certainly not something he planned for, as he seems to be trying to imply.

Again, rewind:

Tim (internal narration): "I did it. I saved the people he loved. I saved everything he worked so hard to build. No compromises. He won't say anything, he never does. But I know. I know that Bruce will be proud of me. Not a bad day." || Tim: (in the midst of pASSING TF OUT) || Dick: (swoops in and catches him)

Tim may not have actually known that Dick would be there. But that catch... A falling Tim being caught by Dick is a motif that occurs over and over and over across the years of their relationship. Why do I feel like there's a part of Tim, faint as he faded out, and much stronger when he woke up, that went, "Oh, it's Dick - of course if it was anyone, I knew it would be Dick"?

After their conflicts and miscommunications in this arc, after Tim sweeping back into town and explaining not a single thing as he races to thwart Ra's, despite Dick's frustrated pleas, after cutting Dick off with a simple, "Batman...trust me," and Dick's responding, "Of course"....

Tim feeling like he knew, even if he didn't know, or plan, or expect. Because that's his brother. And choosing to express that trust, after Dick chose to trust him...

Just. Dick and Tim. Verbally reaffirming their faith in each other, even after in-the-moment doubts. BROTHERS. My emotions.

[silverwhittlingknife]

So you're a go to source for all things Dick&Tim bros and you tend to write primarily from Dick's POV. So, odd question, but if you were to summarize their relationship from his POV in FIVE panels which panels would you pick? Keeping in mind that one specific aspect of their relationship that you love needs to be clearly represented by each panel (loyalty, trust etc). I hope this is a fun challenge and not an annoying question so if you don't want to answer that's cool! Have a wonderful day!

No more talk. The same thoughts run through two minds... (SotB 29) / You're my equal. My closest ally. (RR 1) / I can't stop thinking how much I rely on him. (GoG 3)

25 Feelings Dick Has About Tim

This was such a kind ask & a cool challenge which I totally failed; here are TWENTY-five panels of Dick's POV on Tim sdfdsfds Look, I got carried away! Marcia and Cindy! The boys!!

OKAY SO BEFORE I GET TO THE PANELS A FEW NOTES:

WARNING THAT THERE ARE SOME NEGATIVE EMOTIONS IN HERE because I love conflict but but but you gotta remember those are not the final word!! They are complicated people and sometimes they get mad at each other BUT ultimately their relationship is so hugely important in both their lives & they love each other and rely on each other so much -!!! <3

Also I have CONCLUDING THOUGHTS at the end about what Dick's POV leaves out (mostly: a lot of Dick defending & protecting & supporting Tim, which Dick does instinctively but isn't very self-aware about most of the time)

I have loosely organized my list into 5^5 format (5 categories with 5 examples each!), so if you want to skip to a relevant one, here are the categories!!

Below the cut:

I hate him and find him infuriating (#1-5)

On second thought, he's endearing & fun (#6-10)

Grief is complicated & he's all tangled up in mine (#11-15)

I love him & think highly of him (#16-20)

I rely on him & though it's hard for me, I trust him (#21-25)

I hate him and find him infuriating (#1 - 5)

1) He thinks he’s so smart and can psychoanalyze me and Bruce, but he doesn’t know me at all, he should get lost (New Titans 61)

2) He thinks he’s so smart and can psychoanalyze Bruce but he doesn’t know Bruce at all, he should get lost (Gotham Knights 26)

3) He is so nosy about stuff that is MY business (Robin 0)

4) He sounds like an insincere suck-up half the time... but okay, fine, if you push him he's got a sense of humor about it (New Titans 65)

5) I'm sure he's a better vigilante than me. It's my fault for being a failure, but I resent him anyway. (Nightwing 9 - Dick's having a nightmare)

On second thought, he's kinda endearing (#6-10)

6) He worries too much and gets anxious so easily, but it makes him fun to tease (Robin 67)

7) I'm not that competitive - okay, so maybe I'm a little competitive, I gotta make sure he doesn't get a swelled head (Prodigal)

8) I'm supposed to be his favorite! It is not cool for him to be fanboying over my not-girlfriend's not-boyfriend!! (Birds of Prey 19)

9) We have fun together. I can kick back and relax when it's just the two of us. Plus I get to boss him around a bit. (Prodigal)

10) He’s always trying to reassure me, and I guess it's a little comforting, but also he doesn’t really get it. Or me. He makes excuses that he shouldn't, because he doesn't understand that I suck. (Nightwing 64)

Grief is complicated and he's all tangled up in mine (#11 - 15)

11) He reminds me of everything I try not to think about. Sometimes the memories are so strong it hurts to look at him. (Batman 441)

12) WHY IS HE BEING IMPOSSIBLE ALL OF A SUDDEN??? THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING (Nightwing 139)

13) We're the same. He says all the things I don't let myself think about. It's like arguing with myself. (Nightwing 139)

14) He thinks he gets to tell me what to do but he doesn’t, fuck him (Battle for the Cowl)

15) Life sucks, so what. I sucked it up so he should too (RR 1)

I love him and think highly of him (#16 - 20)

16) He’s the closest thing to a brother I’ll ever have.  If someone hurts him I will hurt them harder. (Nightwing 6)

17) I can't handle the idea of losing him. (Nightwing 97)

17) He’s so good and I’m not. I'm afraid I’m bad for him. (Nightwing 110)

18) He’s better than me, and it’s kind of a relief because I know no matter what he’ll be okay. (Gates of Gotham 3)

19) In my head he’s the responsible one.  (Gotham Knights 10)

I rely on him, and though it's hard for me, I trust him (#20-25)

20) I know I have to trust him but I'm afraid he'll make the wrong choices and get hurt (Nightwing 139)

21) I'm sure I know what he should do because I see myself in him - not that I can take my own advice, but he should (Blackest Night 3)

22) I trust him.  When I’m losing my grip on things, he pulls me back. (Gotham Knights 10)

23) I want him to trust me (Red Robin 12)

24) He can tell when I'm lying. Sometimes he sees my weaknesses better than I wish he did. (Detective Comics 874)

25) He’s always there when I need him. (Teen Titans / Outsiders Secret Files)

Final rambling thoughts:

TIM: Uhh, okay, so I'm just skimming this list - do you really trust me? you're not just saying that? - but anyway, I'm confused because you left some stuff out? Like some stuff that's kinda important? DICK: No? I think I got everything? TIM (starts counting on his fingers): The time I was having a bad day but then I called you. The time I got captured by Two-Face but then you saved me. The time I fell off a train but then you saved me. The time I fell off a building but then you saved me. The time I fell off a different building - DICK: I feel like you're trying to make some kind of point but I'm not sure what it could be.

SO THE THING IS, I put 25 panels in here and not a single one has Dick catching Tim when he’s falling!!! But I think that's a central motif of their relationship from Tim’s POV, not Dick’s. I love Dick, but in some ways I think he is spectacularly un-self-aware.

And I think he especially has a lot of blind spots about Tim. He kinda intermittently gets that Tim admires him, and he enjoys it in a playful I-get-to-boss-you-around way. But Dick tends to consistently underestimate all of his own good qualities & skills, and he meets Tim at a point in his life when he's especially down on himself & his abilities. And so he's unable to see his own influence on Tim, & therefore unable to fully understand a lot of Tim's priorities and loyalties and motivations, because you can't actually understand Tim without understanding Dick's impact on him. There's a fascinating moment in Bruce Wayne: Murderer when Dick's completely blindsided & upset to discover that Tim doesn't entirely trust Bruce, even though this has been a definitive fact of Tim's whole thing ever since he showed up with his Batman needs Robin theory, and Barbara has to actively remind Dick of the obvious-to-everyone-except-Dick fact that a lot of Tim's loyalty is to Dick, and Tim loves Bruce but feels free to be more wary of him. (And to give Bruce credit: this is not something he ever begrudges.) But anyway Babs points this out, and Dick manages to sorta process it for about five seconds, but he cannot actually accept it into his worldview so instead he discards it at the speed of light and goes off and has an argument with Tim instead sdfsfdsf

All of Dick's virtues - Dick's kindness at the circus and Dick's determination to fight through grief and Dick's rigid sense of morals and Dick's vigilante skills and every time Dick has ever backed Tim up or listened to him or protected him or saved him from something or just been casually kind to a stranger in Tim's presence etc etc etc - all these things loom really large in Tim's mental story of Who Dick Is, and What Dick And Tim's Relationship Is. Tim meets Dick before he meets Bruce, trusts Dick more than Bruce, aspires to be Robin instead of Batman. And so in Tim's default version of the story, Dick is the super-special and admirable hero and Tim is... nobody in particular, a tagalong outsider who's barely managing to be a hero, not part of Dick and Bruce's family and not part of their story, who, if he's VERY LUCKY and tries REALLY HARD, might be able to fight his way to proving himself and offering something to Dick that Dick will value, if Dick doesn't get fed up with him first.

But that's not Dick's version of the story!!!

Dick's version of the story is almost the exact opposite, a story where Dick's an outcast failure black sheep who's screwing up everything he tries, and meanwhile Tim is The Sudden New Perfect Robin Who's Better Than Me And Probably Bruce Loves Him More And Probably They Gossip About What A Loser I Am, mixed with a complicated edge of Tim Thinks He's So Smart But He Doesn't Know Me/Us At All. Dick gets much more attached to Tim over time, and Tim gets unnervingly better at the know-it-all psychoanalysis so then Dick gets to have complicated feelings about him being right instead of just annoyance at him for being wrong, plus Dick's relationship with Bruce improves a lot, so Tim stops feeling so threatening. But Dick never fundamentally changes his basic theory of their relationship in which Tim is highly impressive and capable, and Dick is not so much.

And so asking Dick about Tim is kinda like if you asked George Bailey to tell you about Harry Bailey in It's A Wonderful Life; like, you'll be there for five hours while he tells you how great Harry is, and how accomplished Harry is, and how he doesn't really get how or why Harry does the things he does, and maybe George does feel a little resentful or jealous sometimes, but that pales in comparison to all his admiration and trust for Harry who he loves so much, who's better than him in so many ways, and he's not gonna openly gripe but secretly he can't help but feel sometimes like he's such a failure in comparison to Harry, a perfect person who emerged fully formed from Zeus's head with all the virtues and also all the accomplishments, etc. etc. etc. --

-- and he will not actually remember the part where he changed and saved Harry's whole entire life unless you literally send him to an alternate timeline in order to force him to remember it. <3

[minty364]

DPXDC Prompt #139

Maddie and Bruce were cousins and Bruce told her when she was young that if she were ever in trouble that there was a spot at Wayne Manor for her. No one expected it to happen but it did, thankfully the portal was closed. Their basement flooded and they had no place to go as most of the town turned their backs on the Fentons quite a while ago. They all pack up and temporarily moved into Wayne Manor.

Danny gets enrolled in Gotham Academy and goes along to school with Damian who seemed really annoyed with him and his family. This doesn’t last long however as Damian slowly warms up to him. After a few weeks a rouge attacks the school and the two accidentally discovers each other’s identities. Damian figures Danny would eventually figure the rest of the batfam identities so he kidnaps him and takes him to the batcave. Here you can do anything really, maybe he interrogated him or maybe he gives him some training.

[vechter]

can you believe how fawking insane infinite crisis #6 is (in many ways but specifically) for tim in terms of kon intervening when superboy prime tried to off nightwing. like two of the people he loves most stuck together trying to save their corner of the world and one of them indirectly sorta dying in trying to save the other. what the hell. we should've seen nightwing angst about it more too actually because it's """his fault""" tim's best friend is dead. like obviously it's not i mean kon had his own reasons for being so adamant about defeating superboy and he was, yknow, saving the entire world from one of its biggest threats BUT wouldn't dick kinda maybe see it that way a little bit. dark 2009 DC show me the forbidden post-resurrection kon + retired!tim + dickbats interactions

RIGHT!!! like it's why i have so many problems with the one year later arc... bc we get glimpses of the dynamic between tim and dick. just look at the flashback sequence in robin #175 or 52 #30:

there's an implied sense of them focusing single mindedly on these missions— where dick is imparting wisdom and a type of training, and tim is taking it all as it comes. it's supposed to be restorative because of the losses he, bruce and dick have faced and i can get behind that...

but i wish we could've gotten some build up on the tension from the events that just took place during the crisis. bc despite the healing and time off, there is a sense of everything not being as hunky-dory as it should/could be. just look at robin #148 (directly coming off of the one year break they took):

there is something off!!! and a tangible portion of it is from tim's end. we see even dick being surprised by how shaken tim is in the resurrection of ra's al ghul aka nightwing #139 (to be fair, the stuff below is the culmination of another shitshow of a year for tim— pretty sure this is after he has tried cloning kon and after bruce adopted him):

but i digress. dick's entire arc right after blüdhaven being blown up has always been a point of contention for me bc i disagree with a lot of the editorial choices... i've alluded to how deeply blüdhaven should've affected him several times. not to mention, the first real storyline after that year long break is brothers in blood... which is enjoyably whacky but supremely out of character

all this to say, i wish we had gotten good old-fashioned angst between dick and tim because:

i would have loved to see dick blaming himself for kon's death... he was at at ground zero, he was the one who was leading kon and like, we already know how deeply personal every death is to dick. but the added devastation of it being his little brother's best friend... yeah that would've been amazing esp because we know dick thinks the world of tim and he would push himself away bc how can tim even stand to look at him after "he got kon killed" (dickie g you are my fav ever unreliable narrator)

look at these panels from infinite crisis #7, esp side by side...

like i need tim to feel some type of way about seeing both their bodies beaten and destroyed like that... except kon never got back up. and dick did! i want tim riddled with guilt about this... maybe even a bit of awful resentment towards dick bc ofc he's beyond grateful that dick survived... but why couldn't kon have too? and tim beating himself up over it too bc how can he ever resent dick being alive?

this would also be such a good starting point to their period of estrangement in red robin... sth about stress fractures that can't take the weight until they're healed right— but because tim and dick are always being pulled in a 100 different directions, esp now that bruce is 'dead'— they don't get the opportunity to heal properly until there's a snap and break to allow for healing from scratch

[frownyalfred]

tl;dr: what's your opinion on posting roleplay replies on ao3?

i know they are frowned upon on ao3, at least that's what i've seen so far, which i can understand... to some extend. they are allowed in the archive, yes, but they also clock tags and it's annoying to read something you don't understand without the other replies and further context. they are tolerated, but i get the sentiment.

here's the thing... i rarely write for myself. i enjoy writing with others and building something together, and sometimes i create pieces i'd love to share. like, recently i have written a reply for someone that explores two different bruce's; one that has helena wayne/the huntress as his biological daughter, one that doesn't, how she got cursed into another universe, and how one deals with losing his child, while the other tries to re-order his life in order to make her fit. it's something beautiful that works on it's own, something i am very fond and proud of, but i'm torn on wether i should post it or not.

i could've kept the fact it's from roleplay a secret, but that also feels shit, lmao. i could keep it to tumblr, but no one would read what i put out -- let's be real, tumblr works very different compared to ao3. so i thought i'd give reaching out to one of my favorite authors a chance.

sorry for the lenght, feel no need to answer.

Hmm. I guess I haven't given it a ton of thought before now. I don't usually engage in roleplay myself, but I absolutely view it as a legitimate version of creation. Just because it's created a certain way doesn't mean it doesn't belong on ao3 -- it's an archive for transformative works, not just cookie-cutter fic formats.

I would say, err on the side of caution and tag as much as you're comfortable (tagging things after the required ao3 warnings is always optional, I want to reiterate, but sometimes additional tags help readers a lot). Make sure it's clear what the structure of the work is, if possible, but don't do yourself a disservice by making roleplay a dirty word, if you use it.

I don't think you're "clogging" up the tag, any more than the person writing 139/250 50 word individual fics haha. There will always be floods of content in various tags, and people who throw shitfits about that need to grow up. Unless someone is breaking the ao3 TOS, everything else is "etiquette" and that truly is nebulous and subjective, even if people will insist it isn't.

As for the missing context and replies -- I think that's something you can get creative with, if you want. But also, if you never fill in those blanks or provide that context, that's okay too. It's an archive, not a site where you have to actively promote your fic and make it the most appealing it can be to the largest group of people.

A final note on context though: I've found that the roleplay chunks I do come across in the wild look a lot like dialogue planning I do for some fics! If you ever want to turn them into a traditional fic structure, I don't think you're very far off at all. But only if you wanted! As I said above, I think what you have is 100% legitimate and should stand on its own on ao3.

[celaenaeiln]

saw a post and now im thinking: hey what if nightwing and talia al ghul were friends.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 now I need to see the post because this idea is hilarious!

It's not a bad one just Dick and Talia's dynamic is so funny because they hate each other so much. If they were to become friends they would be the type to constantly one up each other. They'd be the most competitive rivals/friends ever!

Pardon the manga reference but they would be like this (read right to left):

Haikyuu chapter 401

They would totally keep a tally of who's winning and brag about it to the other XD

Nightwing (1996) Issue #145

THE ABSOLUTE DELIGHT ON HIS FACE AT HER FURY!!!!

Batman (1940) Issue #332

To be fair, she loves to torment him too!

They’re the bane of each other's existences so much they probably lay awake at night thinking about how much they hate each other 🤣

Talia-

Bruce

They highly respect each other and that fact aggravates the both of them.

Azrael Deaths Dark Knight Issue #3

Nightwing (1996) Issue #139

But one of the greatest types of frienships possibly

Nightwing (1996) Issue #144

They would constantly be getting better because they're always trying to outcompete each other. It would be exhausting to everyone else looking in but secretly they're just having too much fun.

[goth-pod]

Goth-Pod Ep 7:  Metropolis vs Gotham

Welcome back to goth pod! Will Juda Boone see a city rivalry put to rest? Seems unlikely in a 4 minute episode! But join us anyway for the question: Metropolis or Gotham?

[goth-pod is a fictional, in-universe podcast based on the DC comics universe. Juda Boone is an original fictional character, not based on any real person or known comic book character.]

Transcript under the cut

Hello everyone and welcome back to Goth-Pod! Your Gotham based podcast. I am, of course, your favorite unconquered tri-state area and host, Juda Boone

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but this episode is sponsored by Wayne Enterprise. Wayne Enterprise is a multi-faceted company based out of Gotham. The rebranding of their tech line is scheduled for the first of the new month, so keep an eye out for that. They sent over an entire box of Wayne Tech recording equipment and I am more than stoked to try it out. 

Whoever got our last joke episode on the desk of Bruce Wayne or Bruce Wayne's Team, I am simultaneously mortified and honored. 

Now, onto today's episode. 

Metropolis is Gotham’s sister city. Some say they can see the glittering skyscrapers from across the bay on a clear day- but I have never known a clear day in Gotham in my life, so I don't know where they got that. 

But, if she’s our sister city, why the ever-so-loud rivalry? 

Before we continue, I am noting that I will not be touching on the Superman / Batman debate. That would be a whole different episode. 

We posted a poll on our socials with the simple question: Metropolis or Gotham? This poll resulted in 139 votes. 21% voted Metropolis. 79% voted Gotham

But I think that's to be expected from our audience. We're Gotham based. Before I'm a host, I'm a Gothamite. I've had 23 years to develop my bias for my home city, something I think our listeners can relate to. 

And it comes down to that key word: Home. The pride and possessiveness that comes with a sense of belonging. I'm sure the results would've been different if we were Metropolis-based.

Really, I get it! I’ve heard just about every verbose rant about “How could anyone live in a city like Gotham?” And there are points I agree with! I understand the deep, deep flaws that my city is trying to find solutions for. 

Just like I’m sure Metropolis is dealing with Lexcorp running more than half the city with Lex Luthor’s selfish, greedy charm. While you’re handling your gentrification, we’re celebrating the preservation of our historic district.

Or how Gotham U beat the Metropolis Bulldogs this past sports season! Maybe it’s all the sunshine getting in the players eyes? Good luck next year, everyone.

“Oh but I would be afraid to walk home at night!” Well that's the difference between us! You’re afraid to walk at night. We know how to punch a clown in the face by the time we’re 10! 

[Clears throat] 

What I meant to say was. Um...

People can feel.. Protective. When something feels like a kindred spirit. Gotham City is a place few people understand. But we, its citizens, it’s children are what makes it. We too stand tall and strange alongside our buildings. We too have our shadows and our secrets that we dare not share with the rest of the world. 

Metropolis is a beautiful city. And so is Gotham. To me, Metropolis is beautiful like a sister. Shining with potential, smiling while leaving you behind. Gotham is beautiful like a mother. Old and scolding. Giving a type of tough love that takes time to understand. 

I love my city. I hope my words, in this episode and others, can help others love it the same way. 

Thank you for joining me. I’m Juda, you’re listening to Goth-Pod. Until next time, stay safe, Gotham.

[gffa]

Oh. Oh no. For the first time in my life pretty much ever I think I'm vaguely interested in a Batman vs Joker comic. This is a humiliating turn of events for me. It's never a good idea to get pre-invested in the potential of a DC comics storyline, that way only ever lies disappointment and "I don't know what I expected" because I should know better. But I can't help it! I took ten years off and came back to a DC that's better than when I left it! I have hope in my heart! And, for all that Gotham War ended with a whimper rather than a bang, I still can see so much potential. Imagine what a real shakeup of the dynamics in the Batfam would look like! I don't believe for a second that they'd do it, but imagine if they actually had Dick in the role of being the family leader, except as Nightwing this time instead of stepping into Batman's boots. He wouldn't want to be the patriarch in the same way Bruce was, but he's about the same age as Bruce was when Bruce adopted him, so imagine the tasty tasty parallels they could do with Dick suddenly in charge of a feral gremlin charge of his own (Damian), some actual support both emotionally and on the streets (Tim and Barbara), a team he actually would be able to call on for help when he needed it (Jason, Steph, Cass, Duke), that in some ways he has it easier than Bruce did, he's not as wrapped up in his own pain in the same way, but in other ways it's harder, he doesn't have Alfred, he has so many moving pieces that are all clashing and aren't necessarily going to listen to him (Steph and Cass and Duke aren't loyal to him the way he was loyal to Bruce)(and then there would be Jason's *waves hands* everything) and it would be out of his control that he'd feel responsible for and it would be a conflict between setting himself up in Bludhaven versus how Gotham still needs the team, not just Bruce being an asshole out there on his own--and god, running into Bruce, always wondering if he approves of Dick's style of leadership versus "You don't get a vote on whether to approve or not." There is SO MUCH that could be done with it! I can't help kind of being fond of the Gotham War set-up, because I like drama and I like Bruce's up and down character arc, and I like a complicated, sharp-edged Bruce who does inexcusable things because his brain is fucked up and lying to him, even when I know it'll disappoint me. But also. I was reading Batman #139 and oh, oh no, oh noooo, I'm interested in "Mindbomb" as a story--as a Joker story!--because it really is the perfect time for it, isn't it? Bruce has been overwhelmed for months now, he's in such a bad place mentally and emotionally that he's letting his fears of loss win and pushing his entire family away, he's doing horrible things to them because he can't handle loving them like he does, so he's separated himself from them, all while he thinks he's in control, but he's not, his brain is absolutely lying to him, and it's hissing in his ear to strip everything that Bruce loves away from himself and so that only Batman is left. Zur-En-Arrh is right there. "I'm in control!" Bruce screams in his own mind, all while Zur just rips through him and so easily takes over. Bruce has no control, he is so, so wrong about all of this, and oh boy the Joker is getting exactly what he wants, isn't he? No more annoying riff raff to get in the way or for Batman to care more about than him. No more Selina, no more kids, no more friends, no more loved ones--just Zur-En-Arrh, the most "pure" Batman in the Joker's eyes, now it's just the two of them. And that's everything Joker has ever wanted. And I don't want to find that to be an interesting extension of everything that led up to and during Gotham War, but crap yeah okay that's kind of a well-timed story when I look at it through that lens. I know I shouldn't get my hopes up, I'm going to be disappointed in wherever this goes, but dammit. The story kind of got me.

[kerakeriza]

If someone you knew wanted to start reading Damian wayne where would you recommend for them to start? 🎤🎤

FIRST!!! you NEED to read batman: son of the demon (1987). this will give you the understanding you need of bruce, talia, their relationship, and also ra's. the fact it hasn't been canon since the 90s doesn't matter because it's still the best book about bruce and the ghul family you will ever read.

then... you may cautiously proceed to batman #656 (2006), while keeping in mind that talia is so wildly ooc that it makes me want to pluck my own eyeballs out of my skull. keep reading until #658, then you can stop because damian disappears for a while after that.

you can read batman #666 if you want to (it's set in an alternate future universe), but damian is bald in it. :( you should probably read it anyway though lol.

next, go on to batman annual #26 (2007). this is the start of the resurrection of ra's al ghul--the arc is good and all, but ra's is so unbelievably ooc that i again want to pluck out my own eyeballs. damian is adorable in it, though, so do read it. but he talks a lot more casually than he's supposed to, that's all you need to keep in mind. (at this point in his character development, he's still the epitome of "spoiled prince," and talks exactly how you'd expect a spoiled prince to talk.)

go through the rest of the resurrection of ra's al ghul after that -- robin annual #7, batman #670, robin #168, nightwing #138, detective comics #838, batman #671, robin #169, nightwing #139, detective comics #839. (please note that the nightwing issues specifically write damian the best, in my opinion. fabian nicieza is one of my FAVORITE damian writers! you know, besides morrison, since morrison created him and all. paul dini is also a huge favorite of mine btw.)

after that, you can go ahead and read batman #675, #680, and #681 (2008).

skip battle for the cowl because you won't really get anything good from reading that lol. long story short: everybody fights for no reason and dick becomes batman and damian becomes robin.

move onto batman and robin #1 (2009). just read it all of it! (the new earth universe finishes at #26 i believe, then new 52 starts.) it's all really good. i also recommend reading all of red robin (2009) and batgirl (2009), damian doesn't show up in every issue but he shows up quite a lot, and regardless, they're just really good books!

you also need to read batman: streets of gotham (2009). again, read all of it, INCLUDING the manhunter specials at the back of the book! damian shows up in those sometimes. :)

also... batman annual #27 (2009) and the other half of its story in detective comics annual #11 (2009).

then, read batman: li'l gotham for some fun fluff. :)

another must-read is supergirl #61 - #64 (2011).

also, teen titans #89 (2011). just read from #89 - #92, then come back around #99 - #100 for maximum damian. it's a pretty good series regardless though.

(one more thing: batman #700 and #703.)

as for new 52, you can keep reading the batman and robin series. but even more importantly, i think you should check out batman: the dark knight (2012) #10 - #15. it's one of my absolute favorite stories between bruce and damian.

besides that, i haven't read a lot of new52 comics, even though i should... or much at all beyond new52, either... but i did read super sons, and i can highly recommend that whole series!

gotham academy #6 and #7 are also super cute new52, sort of AU stories, damian features in those issues and he's adorable and well-written, if you ask me.

so that's where i'd tell you to start! there's way more that even i still need to read, but i'm so bitter about new52 and rebirth in general that it takes me a while to even want to pick up a book from the modern era.

edit: while you could read the batman/tmnt comics featuring damian, i actually recommend just watching the movie they made based on those comics. it's REALLY good.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

31 DOD - TROPE : BIG BROTHER TO ALL

Dick is the oldest kid Bruce Wayne adopted and that makes him having a lot of younger siblings. He's the big brother the younger ones can rely on (even those who aren't always in good terms with him).

Batman (1939) issue #416

Dick offered valuable advice to Jason when they first met as Robin (Jason) and former Robin/Nightwing ( Dick).

Nightwing (1996) issue # 139

Dick assuring Tim he made the right choice and also providing the emotional support his little brother needs.

Batman (2016) issue #34

Dick assuring Damian that he would be by his side as the latter figured out his new place in the family

Even outside the Batfamily Dick acts like a big brother to younger heroes:

Justice League of America (2006) issue #60

Superman: son of Kal - El issue #9

[zahri-melitor]

New(ish) Comics (this is the best week of the month, no lie)

Batman – Santa Claus: Silent Knight #1: this is fun. I like the way Bruce and Damian are written together. I am annoyed Babs is out as Batgirl. I'm amused that Tim is very specifically excluded from the story that involves real Santa given he'd not be wondering 'ooh oooh is Santa real' like Dick is here.

Someone had better give Darkseid some coal, is all I can say.

Batman #139: …so we really are running Batman and Batman & Robin with contradictory plots right now. Cmon. There was even a way to finagle this so that Damian could be living with Bruce and have Zdarsky’s plot still work! Grump.

“I’m coming for you, Joker. I’m coming for all three of you. For the last time.” (actually there’s a printing error in this line and the letterer has ‘For the the last time’) I disbelieve this Zdarsky, sorry, though if you could figure out a way to get Joker out of the Bat books for a few years I think everyone would enjoy that.

Now that aside, I do want to note that apparently my decision to (re)read all of Henri Ducard’s appearances seems to have been prescient, given Zdarsky has just referred to ‘manhunting’, ‘training when I was young’ and ‘Paris’ all together. That’s Ducard. That trio is 100% Ducard. Sounds like I need to finish Henri Ducard’s post-2016 appearances, which I was delaying. So Batman: The Detective and Batman: The Knight are jumping up my reading list. (And a quick look at ‘Lucie Chesson’ says she’s from Batman: The Knight, so yep, gotta read)

Joker + dolls always makes me think of NML Endgame, personally.

Birds of Prey #3: Damn this continues to just be a solid read. Thompson keeps hitting yet another 'look I can be trusted' target every issue.

I could do with at least 30% less Harley commentary in this book, but I do acknowledge that at least half the team are unlikely to talk much in a combat situation. Future!Maps is cute and as I slowly approach Maps content I’m excited to meet her more. Also… SIN MY SWEETHEART. I have been waiting for this hug for SIXTEEN YEARS. (Literally. I was in DC fandom in 2007 when they were torn apart). Also loooooooooool Ollie got curbstomped by Diana, sucks to be you Ollie.

Blue Beetle #3: Oh I couldn’t help myself (in terms of how many panels I already posted), but Blue Beetle is doing such interesting things right now. Victoria’s finally being acknowledged on page as being super sus and villainous (rather than just slinking around being sus and concerning me deeply). I’m getting more and more worried about the identity of the Red Beetle. We got Traci back! Which from what I hear means that Trujillo is glossing over some of Traci’s recent characterisation, but we’ll see how this tracks (and in any case, re-establishing Jaime’s connections to the magic/dark side of DC via Traci is helpful if we’re about to do a Dan Garrett story).

Free my girl Dani Garrett if we’re doing a Dan Garrett storyline, she’s an autistic mildly amoral archaeologist and I desperately, DESPERATELY want to see her arguing with Victoria Kord over who ‘owns’ the scarab while Jaime’s standing in the middle going ‘excuse me nobody owns Khaji Da, it’s its own being! And my friend!’

Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville #3: hello Jimmy Olsen! Hello Turtle Jimmy lore! (I love how silly this book is. I do enjoy JLI stuff that doesn’t take itself seriously) I’m getting attached to a few of the new villains, particularly Linka Grodd.

Shazam! #5: MARY SIGHTING. Darla remains tiny and adorable and I love her too. This comic remains committed to ridiculous fun villains (and Waid and Mora have apparently been off raiding the ‘underused weird Silver Age villains’ list). Mr Dinosaur is an amazing addition to the canon. (And yes. Billy rebuilt the moon. Oh Shazam!) Also I see we are still back firmly in the ‘jealous Freddie’ plot that’s been hanging around for a while.

Warlord #25: this week we check back in with Tara, Mariah and Machiste. Grell’s done some fabulous art for the splash page that I really really like.

Travis is fighting *checks notes* snow giants as he's still too ashamed to come hang out with his friends and partner after the whole 'I killed Joshua' incident a few issues back. He's also cutting all sort of things with his Damascus Steel sword which I have to remind everyone and note is highly suspicious damascus steel, because it's made from a RIFLE and there is no way the type of steel used was able to be worked as damascene, given it likely was alloyed wrong.

I love Ashir here (the guy actually wearing clothes) as firstly, look! A rare appearance of someone with most of their skin covered! Secondly, Travis' burn of "I didn't know you had character".

Anyway, Travis is moping a bit here about being a lone warrior. You could go and hang out with your friends any time you want, Travis. You're the one who left, not them.

[wesavegotham]

It's been some time since I truly read the Failsafe arc, but if I remember correctly Bruce's back up personality Zur en Arrh created Failsafe so if Bruce ever started killing criminals the robot would activate and stop Bruce.

But according to spoilers for Batman #139 Zur now really wants Bruce to kill Joker.

And IF Bruce/Zur actually kills him wouldn't that simply cause Failsafe to reactivate and go after Bruce again? Since Bruce failed to destroy him, he only managed to add some compassion to Failsafe's programming.

Basically I'm wondering what Zur's plan is. Zur creating Failsafe implies Zur doesn't want Bruce to kill, but in Batman #139 he makes it very clear he wants Bruce to kill. So did he do all of this so Bruce would finally kill the Joker and then be stopped from killing anyone else by Failsafe?

[silverwhittlingknife]

Dick resurrecting Bruce via Lazarus Pit and his reasons for doing so left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when Dick tried to talk Tim out of it. I don't like it. I wish Tim found out about it and... Had a serious discussion with him? Hit him? Left? I dunno.

Oh man, it's hard for me to talk about this one without the Doylist approach. I'm gonna come back to these panels, but I just want to leave them here as a contrast between how Dick is written in his solo vs. how he's written in Batman and Robin:

Dick: Tim... I ... where does it stop, right? What about your mom, then? My mom and dad? Bruce's...? (Nightwing 139)

Dick: This isn't just "loved ones," Alfie. It's Bruce Wayne, the Batman. He saved our lives, he saved the city and the world how many times? (Batman and Robin 9)

I have SUCH complicated feelings about the Morrison Batman and Robin run? I like a lot of the Dick-Damian-Alfred dynamics, and I love the idea of villain!Jason as a major antagonist for DickBats, and I love what I think is the concept of the Lazarus Pit arc, which is that Dick's slowly crumbling under the pressure of being Batman and Jason's taunting is the last straw that finally pushes him to make a terrible mistake.

But I don't like the execution of the Lazarus Pit arc, and the disregard for big chunks of post-Crisis continuity and characterization is sooo frustrating. ("I don't like to plan"/pro-Lazarus-Pit!Dick, cartoonishly-evil!Talia, redhead!Jason, etc.)

And yet. AND YET. So many of the concepts are so good! The execution is so messy, but the concepts are so good! I want to tear it all up and then put it lovingly back together but different sdfdsfs

I had a lot of thoughts, so below the cut:

Why characterizations in B&R are a huge departure from previous continuity (Doylist version)

Why the Lazarus Pit arc COULD BE SO GOOD though (and how we can make it work with Watsonian reasoning)

Finally getting back to your question - how would Tim react? (tl;dr probably with concern and worry?)

Characterization Changes

Just to give you a bit of an idea of how abrupt a departure B&R is from Dick's solo, here are some panels showing some major changes.

1) Dick on Lazarus Pits: Pro or Against?

Here's Dick arguing against using the Lazarus Pit and telling Tim it won't bring back the soul in Nightwing 139:

Here's Dick doubling down on the evilness of the Lazarus Pit when Ra's taunts him with it post-Bruce's death in Nightwing 152:

But here's Dick arguing that the Lazarus Pit will be fine and that he doesn't believe in "prophecies of doom" in Batman and Robin 7 (and indeed, also in B&R, he'll kill and resurrect Kate with zero consequences - convenient!):

2) Talia: protective or cruel?

Here's Talia worrying about Damian's safety and teaming up with the Batfamily to try to save him from Ra's in Resurrection:

But here's Talia smirking after telling Damian they're enemies now and she's going to replace him with a clone in Batman and Robin 12:

3) Dick and planning

Here's Dick-the-planner in Nightwing 142:

Tim: That's a lotta ordnance. Dick: Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

But here's Dick the impulsive leap-before-you-look guy in Batman and Robin 9:

Dick: ... Okay, I'm sorry - I don't like to plan, I work without a net... I'm not Bruce.

4) Resurrection: the right choice or the wrong choice (part 2)

Here's Dick telling Tim he made the right choice (not trying to resurrect anyone) in Nightwing 139:

But here's Dick insisting that resurrecting Bruce would've been the right choice in Batman and Robin 9:

This is one of those "clearly some people were writing angry letters to the editor" moments sdfdsfds, because it's awkwardly attempting to address Dick's abrupt about-face but the writer still hasn't read the issues in question because

a) Alfred has no way of knowing Dick's previous stance and it's incredibly weird that he would, b) "cautioned against" the Pit is a lot milder than "had a fist-fight with Tim about it," c) Dick's argument has shifted from "the Pit is an eldritch evil that's untrustworthy and probably soulless" to "look, resurrection is a special thing, and not all loved ones are important enough for resurrection," which, uh, okayyyy, and d) Dick is still full-naming "Tim Drake" as if he's a business associate and they had an argument about how to properly file paperwork and now it looks like Tim Drake was right after all, as opposed to Dick's little brother that he had a huge fight with and who subsequently ran away from home insisting that their dad was alive and that he was gonna prove it and now it turns out their dad is alive

Why This Arc Could Be Great Though

Listen, Dick-driven-to-the-Lazarus-Pits is a great concept. I love narrative foils. I love Dick ending up in the exact same place that Tim was in Resurrection, and even though he knows better. I love Dick being that desperate. Here's the setup:

Damian's back gets broken, Alfred takes him to get emergency treatment from Talia but it's not clear if he'll recover,

villain!Jason taunts Dick about not caring about Bruce,

Dick's been slowly crumbling under the pressure of being Batman and between the guilt of Damian being injured and the blow of Jason's accusations (not to mention having to fight villain!Jason and get him arrested), this is the last straw,

he decides to resurrect Bruce even though he knows perfectly well this is a terrible idea because he was the one who talked Tim out of it

he heads off to do this incredibly stupid thing and nobody stops him because normally on the rare occasions Dick's out-of-control Tim shows up and stops him (Hugo Strange, the Joker) but Tim isn't here and actually the strain of that ongoing estrangement is probably also contributing to Dick's isolation and terrible decision-making

the attempted resurrection goes horribly and Dick has to fight a grotesque parody of his tragically-dead father

I love this idea!! I love it when characters make stupid emotional decisions with terrible consequences!! I love the ways Dick and Tim's arcs intersect and parallel each other!!

And I think this could absolutely be in-character for Dick. He knows it's wrong and a bad idea, but he's desperate and pushed to his limits and grasping at straws? Yeah. I can see it.

BUT yeah, not in love with the execution. My conclusion is that more people should write about this arc in fanfic. <3

How Would Tim React?

I think it depends on where you put Tim in the story?

Options that come to mind:

Tim finds out mid-adventure: Tim's semi-teaming-up with Ra's and underground in a League base - and suddenly he stumbles on Dick sneaking in with (apparently) Bruce's dead body! In this case, I think Tim's first reaction is defensiveness about his own behavior and assuming he's being spied on, and it only slowly dawns on him that Dick's up to something. I'd really want to somehow maneuver a physical fight where Tim tries to stop him, so you get a direct reversal of Resurrection, but mmmm I'm a little stuck on how to get there since Tim's working theory is that the body isn't Bruce's body, so I don't see why he'd be opposed to Dick dumping it in? But anyway, they should have a physical fight and a direct parallel where Tim realizes he needs to back off and let Dick decide, and then they hug ;_; I feel like to make this one work you need Tim really invested in stopping Dick, so uhhhhh maybe for some reason Tim's "rescue Bruce from time" plan requires the body of the clone? So Dick CAN'T put it in the Lazarus Pit, or Bruce will be LOST FOREVER?

Tim gets told about it after the fact: So uhhh for example, Ra's finds out about Dick's botched resurrection attempt and tells Tim about it in an attempt to paint Dick as a hypocrite/ entice Tim into using the Lazarus Pit. I feel like Tim would just straight-up not believe him? But let's say that Tim finds out for sure - either Dick admits it to him, or he sees some League recording, or whatever. I'm not really sure how Tim would react? Worried, probably, because it's out-of-character, and I feel like Tim might wonder if it's really him or if he's under magical influence or something? And uhhhh then ideally Tim realizes that no, it was because he was having a really hard time ;_; and then Tim is worried about him and comforting and/or apologetic and probably Dick is probably also apologetic and then they hug <3.

Alternate third terrible possibility: it is Bruce's body, he was dead and Tim was just in denial, Dick resurrects him but there are some kind of eldritch evil consequences, and then Dick has to call Tim back and they have to fight undead!Bruce together. I like this one >:D

[mydisenchantedeulogy]

Character Description: Ana Patterson (Sweet Sacrifice)

(Art is by me. Please don't steal).

Fandom: Batman

Basics

Gender: Female

Full Name: Ana Louise Patterson

Alias: Patient No. 1

Affiliation: Civilian

Age: Twenty–five

Nationality: American

Race: Human

Sexual Orientation: Straight

Birthday: September 15th

Zodiac Sign (Astrology): Virgo

Blood Type: A

Occupation:

· Pickpocket/Receiver

Social Class: Low

Scent: Lilac

Most Fitting Song for Theme Song: Sweet Sacrifice by Evanescence

Portrayed by: Michelle Trachtenberg

Appearance

Initial Impression: Like she's timid.

Height: 139 centimeters; 5 foot 5 inches

Weight: 54 kilograms; 120 pounds

Body Type: Slim with little or no muscle mass.

Face Shape: Oval 

Hair Color: Dark Brown

Hair Style: Long, thick, and wavy.

Eye Color: Green

Complexion: Pale

Best Physical Feature: Her eyes

Worst Physical Feature: In her opinion, her worst physical feature would be her freckles. They are light, but she has a few across the bridge of her nose and on her cheeks. She feels that the feature makes her look young.

Physical Quirks/Abnormalities: Cracks fingers increasingly. Thrives in hot weather, hates cold weather.

Scars: She has a scar line from a stab wound on her lower abdominal area.

Civilian Dress Style: Cotton, often torn. Her outfits are primarily thick, presumably for warmth.

Personality

Initial Impression: Brave

Most Endearing Trait: Calmness

Least Endearing Trait: Anger

General Attitude Towards Characters: Sociable unless there is a strong dislike for them.

Annoying Habits: Unable to sit motionless for long amounts of time.

Good Habits: She shows compassion.

Hobbies: Listening to music, taking walks, singing.

Skills: Blending in, gaining the trust of others, good listening skills, lying, strategic thinking, sleight–of–hand, survival skills, swift–footedness, and self–defense.

General Likes: Chocolate and literature

General Dislikes: Violence and bullies.

General Fears: Snakes, spiders, needles.

Greatest Fear: Death/blood

Acquaintances: Rebekah Cross, Jesse Collins, Andrew Lawton, Natalie Bell, Lucus Butler, and Lenore Anderson. 

Most Common Expression: Blithe

Favorite Color: Purple

Favorite Food: Pasta

Least Favorite Food: Anything spicy.

Background

Educational Background: Home Schooled

Family Background: Was raised by George and Melissa Patterson up until they were murdered, then she stayed with a foster family for a couple of months before she ran away. She joined a Fence and was taught to survive out on the streets.

Full Biography: She was born in Bludhaven, New York to George and Melissa Patterson. When she was sixteen, a group of burglars broke into her home and attacked her family. Her mother and father were killed, and Ana was stabbed. She survived but was put in foster care for the time being. Her new family were farmers who were not ideal people. The final straw for Ana was when she fell into a pit of slaughtered animals and after a long sweltering day, she was rescued. She ran away and ended up on the streets of Gotham where she met Lenore and Rebekah.

Relationship with Canon Cast

· Bruce Wayne (as Batman): She has different values on the Dark Knight per the way he conducts himself. She thinks that what he stands for is justice for the people of Gotham, but she doesn't value his way of doing so in high regard. To her, Batman is an angry kid with a hammer and everything he sees is a nail.

· Bruce Wayne (as himself): Having not met him, other than the few times she's seen him on television, Ana admires Bruce. Unlike the other rich occupants of Gotham, he seems the most concerned with the outcome of the city.

· Dick Grayson (as Robin): Much like her views of Batman, Ana neither likes nor dislikes Robin.

· Dick Grayson (as himself): Having only met him once, and on less than ideal terms, she doesn't much care for him.

Relationship with Non-Canon Cast

· Rebekah Cross: Her voice of reason. She feels obligated to protect her.

· Lenore Anderson: The teacher. She respects Lenore for her knowledge of the life they live. As an older sister figure, Ana looks up to her.

· Andrew Lawton: A strange, yet interesting man. Ana envies his imagination.

· Natalie Bell: Ana neither likes nor dislikes her. She understands her attitude toward the situation but doesn't appreciate the negative approach she uses.

· Jesse Collins: An optimist. She likes him the most because of his friendly nature.

· Lucas Butler: While outspoken, she doesn't find him irritating as some do. His insight into their situation is appreciated.