#BUT ON THE OTHER HAND--zur wants the family out of the way so that bruce will ONLY be batman

[hood-ex]

Having a Homer Simpson "d'oh!" moment because I missed/forgot some pivotal information on the Zur situation that happened a few issues ago.

Zur created Failsafe and erased the memory of how to stop him. He also created a batcave under Bruce's batcave. (Batman #127 / Batman #136)

Bruce literally mentioned that Zur "poisoned the well" and put doubt in Bruce's head and heart. Bruce questioned, "What else has he done?" (Batman #136)

Bruce locked Zur away in his mind, and they were at odds with each other because Bruce didn't want Zur taking over, and Zur wanted out because he perceived Bruce's insecurities and doubts as his mind being "under attack." He wanted out to fulfill his purpose. (Batman #136)

In a flashback, Zur took over Bruce's body without Bruce even knowing. One minute, Bruce was trying to solve a case, and in the next, Zur was doing his own thing. When he gave up control to Bruce again, Bruce simply carried on with his previous thought as if he hadn't been personality swapped at all. (Batman #136)

Zur tried to tell Bruce what to do. Bruce snapped and yelled at him, reminding Zur that he (Zur) was in a cage. Bruce reassured himself, "He's in a cage. I'm in control." (Batman #137)

Now there was a moment in Batman #136 where Bruce started to panic because he couldn't see the future or whatever, so he didn't know how he could save everyone he loved, and he wondered how far he could go before it all burned away.

And then in Batman #137/Catwoman #57, Bruce realized that he no longer owned the manor, and he kinda started spiraling and talking about how even if he lost the manor/his wealth, he wouldn't lose his soldiers.

"They can't be bought. But they can be saved."

Notice the fact that Bruce used the term "soldiers." Because guess what? In Batman #127, Zur referred to Tim and the other members of the family as soldiers, and Bruce angrily corrected him.

"And Tim isn't my soldier! HE'S MY SON!"

SOOO. Do you see where I'm kinda going with all this? Bruce not knowing when Zur takes over? Zur being able to erase memories? Zur using "soldier" in his own dialogue color, and Bruce using the term "soldier" in his own dialogue color? Bruce saying that Zur "poisoned the well."

AND NOW, in today's issue, Zur forcibly took over to try and kill Joker again. And you know what was said?

Bruce: No! I'm in control! I'm--

Zur: You're not in control, we (Zur) are.

BRUCE CANNOT CONTROL ZUR. HE CANNOT. He thinks he can, and he thought he had it under control, but Bruce doesn't have shit under control!

[faytelumos]

Jason Todd

Give Me a Character

How I feel about Jason? I love him. He's my boy. He's a martyr. He's a cautionary tale. He's always been doomed since the day he was born. The very universe itself conspires against him because readers wanted him to die. So he dies. Again and again, in every universe, he dies, and he fights, and he tries to make the world a better place, and he wants to be kind, but he is doomed, always, every time, even when he comes back. It's tragic, and I hate what they've done to him, but without it, he wouldn't be the same person. He wouldn't be my blorbo.

JoyFire (Jason Todd x Roy Harper x Koriand'r) is my OTP for this guy. And I will say it out loud, I also enjoy JayTim and JayDick. I like JoyFire because it's like… the family you choose. Each of them has trauma about getting left behind in some sense. So they'll never leave each other. Even if Jason's a jerk sometimes, he will never, ever leave either of them hanging when it matters even a little. And they're the same for him. I like JayTim because Tim thinks Jason is so annoying, and Jason thinks Tim is so smart and capable, and so there's a little bit of pining in there? Especially in the opposite way one would expect by looking at them. But Tim knows that Jason's smart, and I kind of ignore a bunch of the ugliness that happened right around Under the Red Hood with them, to be honest. Not completely, but some of it. I think that Tim can admire Jason's ingenuity and persistence even when he's rolling his eyes at him, and I think that Jason thinks so highly of Tim, even when he refuses to ever say it out loud. And as for JayDick, maybe some of it is just me smashing my favorite dolls together. I freaking love Dick Grayson. Who doesn't? And I freaking love Jason, and they have a complicated relationship, but they love each other, whether you want it to be brotherly, friendly, or romantic. They love each other, and I'll take that in any flavor I can get it.

Non-romantic OTP is also Jason and Dick. You cannot tell me these two don't share the braincell when they're in a room together. But also, they can be hyper competent together. If they're both motivated and working together, they can do anything. Including building a heated roof pool out of cardboard, a carbon metallic alloy, and a "borrowed" shop vacuum.

(Also gotta mention that I adore father-son pair Bruce and Jason. The two of them are just so wonderful together, how Jason brings such joy into Bruce's life and Bruce just wants Jason to heal and realize his dreams, ah!)

Unpopular opinion about him? Willis was a good dad. [lifts a megaphone] Willis Todd was a good dad! He was a victim of a broken system and turned to crime because it was the only means he had to provide for his family! Any time he laid a hand on Jason or Catherine was still unjustified, but it was because Willis was a deeply frustrated and scared man who had no system or room to handle his negative emotions or feel accomplishment in his life! [puts down the megaphone] Domestic abuse is never okay, and that goes the same if a woman is the abuser. But Willis was not an asshole, he was a poverty-stricken petty criminal with the most minimal support system. He loved Jason, and he loved Catherine, and he tore himself up to do his best to provide for them all the way to the end. His story is a sad one, he was not the villain, and I hate it when people say Jason is better off without him and didn't mourn him or feel bad about his death.

There's a lot of things I wished hadn't happened to him in canon, but most of all, I hate what Zur En Arrh did to him.* It was absolutely terrible, and then the fact that nobody was left to give Jason any support at all after the fact because they were all chasing Zur really gets to me. The way that one panel just showed him trembling, so small, alone, asking anybody at all for help…. It breaks my heart. Because it's always like that for him. He ends up alone, on his own, because he's the black sheep and he's mad about it, and he defends people who others leave behind. And it breaks my heart in a way that actually very truly makes me sad. Because there are people who think he deserves it. Including the writers.

[mattzerella-sticks]

"You can live a normal life. Fall in love."

I think this scant piece of ranting says a LOT about how Bruce sees Batman. It's not just a duty. It's a curse. Your blessings are also your damnations. Bruce thinks that you cannot fall in love while you are a vigilante (despite COUNTLESS EVIDENCE THAT DISPROVES THIS - Dick and Babs, Clark and Lois, Ollie and Dinah, etc.)

But Bruce has a very myopic viewpoint that leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. He hasn't had success in romance as Batman. It's Batman's fault. He can't give up Batman. Ergo, he cannot 'find love' in the nuclear family, heteronormative sense because of Batman.

Let's look at the three 'greatest loves' of Batman's life according to his and Ghostmaker's trip into his psyche.

Selina Kyle. Talia al Ghul. Poison Ivy.

I'll work backwards. Ivy is a placeholder because she was never really his. She never loved him, and his love for her was chemically induced. But he has her there, why? Maybe to say that it doesn't work out because she chose someone else.

Talia. The mother of his child who is also the Demon's Head. It would never work because of his strict code against killing and her ambivalence towards it. Ironically, they have the healthiest relationship imo that probably was born from necessary co-parenting. While they don't care for what the other does, they respect and care for each other and have deep history. He thinks if he can't make it work with the mother of his kid, who can he make it work with?

Selina Kyle. Probably the closest (at this point in canon) Bruce has ever come to having a relationship that works. But every time it looks like it'll be a sure hit, something gums up the works. Most of the time, it's each other as there are key aspects of their identity that neither are willing to compromise for. And usually, when there is a compromise, it's usually on Selina's part whereas Bruce can continue being Batman. That puts a huge power imbalance in the relationship. It doesn't work out because Selina will always be drawn back to crime, and Batman will have to stop her. Bruce supposes that's what you get for falling for a criminal.

In all three, Bruce creates logical reasons why Batman is incapable of having a relationship and uses that to justify why he cannot have romance in his life. Why having this duty is a curse. Why he is showing love by getting his kids 'out' of the life, through whatever means necessary.

However, with Selina taking a chunk out of crime through a grey method, she is pulling at a foundational aspect of his personality - I'd argue the safety net Bruce created for himself when he was that boy in the alley - and, in turn, making the Batman/Zur persona go nuts. Zur sees her methods not a way to help Gotham but as an attack on him since, if this can save Gotham what is the point of Batman? What was the point of Bruce's vow? What was it all for?

Zur is giving Bruce a reason to keep going, to keep putting on the mask, so he doesn't have to confront what's under the mask when there's no crime to fight. To deal with his personal life and relationships and mhi that need to be dealt with.

And Selina and the Batfamily are right, this shouldn't have turned into a war. They shouldn't be fighting. This is an unforseen side effect of them fulfilling Bruce's wish which is to make Gotham safe when, in reality, maybe thats not what Batman wants because what safe Gotham would need Batman?

Almost like when in Infinite Crisis, Superman of earth one asks his earth two counterpart: "if your earth was perfect, why did it need a superman?"

A safe Gotham doesn't need a Batman and, after all the stress and trauma Bruce has suffered since he put on that cowl, he is not ready to hang it up. It is his burden and his joy. As much as he grouses about the crime and how much work it is to keep Gotham 'clean' he hates sitting on his hands with nothing to do.

Ironically, Batman of Zur En Arrh reminds me of what happened to Robin in Teen Titans Go! in 'Uncle Jokes' when Starfire started acting like Cyborg and Beast Boy, breaking the natural order of how he saw the world and making him go cuckoo. The same thing is happening to Bruce.

He needs to realize that he can still be Batman but he can also not be in control. That Bruce is the one stopping him from finding 'love' in a traditional sense, not Batman. That he has love and a family and he does not need to keep pushing everyone away because he thinks it's better for them and he knows best.

Batman is Gotham's greatest hero, Bruce Wayne's love, but he's also Bruce's greatest rogue. Duality.

[gffa]

Oh. Oh no. For the first time in my life pretty much ever I think I'm vaguely interested in a Batman vs Joker comic. This is a humiliating turn of events for me. It's never a good idea to get pre-invested in the potential of a DC comics storyline, that way only ever lies disappointment and "I don't know what I expected" because I should know better. But I can't help it! I took ten years off and came back to a DC that's better than when I left it! I have hope in my heart! And, for all that Gotham War ended with a whimper rather than a bang, I still can see so much potential. Imagine what a real shakeup of the dynamics in the Batfam would look like! I don't believe for a second that they'd do it, but imagine if they actually had Dick in the role of being the family leader, except as Nightwing this time instead of stepping into Batman's boots. He wouldn't want to be the patriarch in the same way Bruce was, but he's about the same age as Bruce was when Bruce adopted him, so imagine the tasty tasty parallels they could do with Dick suddenly in charge of a feral gremlin charge of his own (Damian), some actual support both emotionally and on the streets (Tim and Barbara), a team he actually would be able to call on for help when he needed it (Jason, Steph, Cass, Duke), that in some ways he has it easier than Bruce did, he's not as wrapped up in his own pain in the same way, but in other ways it's harder, he doesn't have Alfred, he has so many moving pieces that are all clashing and aren't necessarily going to listen to him (Steph and Cass and Duke aren't loyal to him the way he was loyal to Bruce)(and then there would be Jason's *waves hands* everything) and it would be out of his control that he'd feel responsible for and it would be a conflict between setting himself up in Bludhaven versus how Gotham still needs the team, not just Bruce being an asshole out there on his own--and god, running into Bruce, always wondering if he approves of Dick's style of leadership versus "You don't get a vote on whether to approve or not." There is SO MUCH that could be done with it! I can't help kind of being fond of the Gotham War set-up, because I like drama and I like Bruce's up and down character arc, and I like a complicated, sharp-edged Bruce who does inexcusable things because his brain is fucked up and lying to him, even when I know it'll disappoint me. But also. I was reading Batman #139 and oh, oh no, oh noooo, I'm interested in "Mindbomb" as a story--as a Joker story!--because it really is the perfect time for it, isn't it? Bruce has been overwhelmed for months now, he's in such a bad place mentally and emotionally that he's letting his fears of loss win and pushing his entire family away, he's doing horrible things to them because he can't handle loving them like he does, so he's separated himself from them, all while he thinks he's in control, but he's not, his brain is absolutely lying to him, and it's hissing in his ear to strip everything that Bruce loves away from himself and so that only Batman is left. Zur-En-Arrh is right there. "I'm in control!" Bruce screams in his own mind, all while Zur just rips through him and so easily takes over. Bruce has no control, he is so, so wrong about all of this, and oh boy the Joker is getting exactly what he wants, isn't he? No more annoying riff raff to get in the way or for Batman to care more about than him. No more Selina, no more kids, no more friends, no more loved ones--just Zur-En-Arrh, the most "pure" Batman in the Joker's eyes, now it's just the two of them. And that's everything Joker has ever wanted. And I don't want to find that to be an interesting extension of everything that led up to and during Gotham War, but crap yeah okay that's kind of a well-timed story when I look at it through that lens. I know I shouldn't get my hopes up, I'm going to be disappointed in wherever this goes, but dammit. The story kind of got me.

[angstandhappiness]

Interesting

Having a Homer Simpson "d'oh!" moment because I missed/forgot some pivotal information on the Zur situation that happened a few issues ago.

Zur created Failsafe and erased the memory of how to stop him. He also created a batcave under Bruce's batcave. (Batman #127 / Batman #136)

Bruce literally mentioned that Zur "poisoned the well" and put doubt in Bruce's head and heart. Bruce questioned, "What else has he done?" (Batman #136)

Bruce locked Zur away in his mind, and they were at odds with each other because Bruce didn't want Zur taking over, and Zur wanted out because he perceived Bruce's insecurities and doubts as his mind being "under attack." He wanted out to fulfill his purpose. (Batman #136)

In a flashback, Zur took over Bruce's body without Bruce even knowing. One minute, Bruce was trying to solve a case, and in the next, Zur was doing his own thing. When he gave up control to Bruce again, Bruce simply carried on with his previous thought as if he hadn't been personality swapped at all. (Batman #136)

Zur tried to tell Bruce what to do. Bruce snapped and yelled at him, reminding Zur that he (Zur) was in a cage. Bruce reassured himself, "He's in a cage. I'm in control." (Batman #137)

Now there was a moment in Batman #136 where Bruce started to panic because he couldn't see the future or whatever, so he didn't know how he could save everyone he loved, and he wondered how far he could go before it all burned away.

And then in Batman #137/Catwoman #57, Bruce realized that he no longer owned the manor, and he kinda started spiraling and talking about how even if he lost the manor/his wealth, he wouldn't lose his soldiers.

"They can't be bought. But they can be saved."

Notice the fact that Bruce used the term "soldiers." Because guess what? In Batman #127, Zur referred to Tim and the other members of the family as soldiers, and Bruce angrily corrected him.

"And Tim isn't my soldier! HE'S MY SON!"

SOOO. Do you see where I'm kinda going with all this? Bruce not knowing when Zur takes over? Zur being able to erase memories? Zur using "soldier" in his own dialogue color, and Bruce using the term "soldier" in his own dialogue color? Bruce saying that Zur "poisoned the well."

AND NOW, in today's issue, Zur forcibly took over to try and kill Joker again. And you know what was said?

Bruce: No! I'm in control! I'm--

Zur: You're not in control, we (Zur) are.

BRUCE CANNOT CONTROL ZUR. HE CANNOT. He thinks he can, and he thought he had it under control, but Bruce doesn't have shit under control!