#black out drinking | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

nonsensenook · 21 days ago

Text

Chapter 4 | Lingering Scars, Heavy Sighs

Synopsis: You and Bajie leave The Hollow heavy with separate burdens which you both chose to drown out with alcohol. A continuation of this unapologetic take on you, the reader, accompanying the Destined One on his journey.

Word Count: 5,035

Warnings: Sadness, Violence (Brief Mentions)

Author’s Note: A bit heavier of a tone than previous chapters, at least in the beginning. Is it just me or are these chapters getting longer? I thank you very much for your patience, kind words, and I hope you enjoy!

Requested Tags: @joyfulllittlething, @servamp01, @suntizme

Ch. 1 - Ch. 2 - Ch. 3 - Ch. 3.5 (Optional) - Cont.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Arriving at the Webbed Hollow had you go against a rule you’ve enacted on yourself since you came to this world: try to change the course of the story. You had time to think through your plans again before you and your group arrived at the Village of Lanxi. While smuggled in the chest carried by two pig Yaoguais you were silently deep in thought as Bajie rolled his eyes at the petty gossip the two were exchanging. You could tell he was getting impatient from how often he peeked out from the chest. In your lap was the Destined One in his bird form, cradled in your arms. You absentmindedly pet him as the village came closer.��

You had a chance to alter the course of the future. Maybe some lives can be spared and some stories re-written. After all, your presence is proof enough that things can be skewed off course, at least a little. But no matter how you went about it you couldn’t see a future where things went the way you wanted them to. You couldn’t shake the dreadful feeling that your actions would be in vain. At the same time, you wouldn’t forgive yourself if you didn’t try.

You had warned Bajie of the dangers that came from trying to trick the ladies of the house. You were careful not to teeter too close to the edge when warning Bajie, cautious of him questioning the knowledge you held and if he were to begin asking questions you couldn’t answer. In the end, you couldn’t give an explanation that justified not going through with Bajie’s plan, at least not one good enough to satisfy him. They needed to infiltrate the Hollow, even if they were seen through. And so, the Weavers Needle landed its mark. You swallowed the bitter taste of failure and carried onward.

The Hollowed Web was the most perilous of all lands you’ve traveled to so far. Knowing this beforehand didn't change that fact. You were hesitant to jump into it with the Destined One, but there were no other ways for you to continue forward without him. You were grateful that the kindness of the Fourth Sister extended to you as well. She had safely taken you both into the Hollow.

The Fourth Sister was another one whose outcome you tried to rewrite. Knowing her fate if the Destined One were to continue tearing the talisman made you consider deeply whether or not you should advise him not to do so. You ultimately chose to stay your hand as your companion tore each talisman. You hoped your choice was the right one; that a chance of a future outside of this Hollow was one she’d take even if it meant becoming a captive of the Celestial Court. You wanted to believe in that chance and couldn't make yourself take it away.

You spent much of the time in The Hollow clinging to the Destined Ones back or having him catch you as you traversed from platform to platform. Your guard and stress were at an all time high as you thought of every possibility while Yaoguais ambushed you from above and below. Nothing was changing. Even when you warned Bajie or the Fourth Sister, everything was falling into place as they should. As the Destined One kept you both alive you worked to think of a way, any way to make just one change. You felt yourself sink further into despair as every moment played out as it had before. Your unprecedented presence had made no difference.

You were silent as The Hollow was left behind. Bajie was the same, both of you were deep in thought, matching the usual energy which The Destined One carried with him. Your gaze was unfocused, your mind elsewhere. Many times you were stopped by the Young Sage from walking into a tree or off a dangerous ledge. His arm would wrap around your waist protectively or his hand would be placed on your shoulder to redirect you. You would apologize to him before sinking back into your stupor.

Bajie was the same, if not worse. It would take several attempts to get his attention and once he acknowledged you with a grunt his mind would go back to where it was the very next moment. When a hostile Yaoguai appeared on your path, Bajie didn’t even glance at it until he was flung back from an attack. This made him turn into his boar form, crushing the Yaoguai against a tree. When he returned to his usual self, he made no acknowledgement of what happened. He simply kept walking.

You couldn’t stop wondering how you could have acted differently, how you could’ve guided them from this preordained path. If you have been more clever - if you have figured out a way, then Bajie wouldn’t be mourning. The Fourth Sister wouldn’t have been captured. Five daughters wouldn’t be digging a grave. You clutched at your arm, nails digging into your skin. What use was your knowledge if you could do nothing with it? What use were you to any of them? Your hands ran through your hair as the same question was brought forth. For what reason were you here?

At some point a fire was started and a blanket draped gently around you. You shook out of your state briefly to look up and see the Destined One stirring something in a pot over the fire. You hadn’t noticed the sun had begun to set. You weren’t even sure when you had even sat down. You looked around and found that Bajie was nowhere to be seen. Looking at the inventory the Destined One laid out you noted some items were missing: several jars of brew and a few pieces of food. You gave a strong guess or two as to what happened to them and Bajie.

The Destined One produced a bowl and spoon, ladling out hot broth. You watched him walk to you, crouching down to hand you the bowl. You accepted it, but made no movement to begin eating. The Destined One plopped down beside you. You could sense he was troubled as he took the bowl back from you. He stirred the broth once, then filled the spoon half-way before holding it beside your lips. You gazed up at him.

“I’m sorry for worrying you,” you said. In response the Young Sage bumped his head against yours as his tail wrapped around you. His arm pulled you closer to him as your vision began to blur. “I’m sorry…” you repeated quietly. The Destined One held you knowing that your last apology wasn’t for him.

His brow was slightly furrowed, mouth tilted in a small worried frown, and his eyes were urging you to please eat. You felt your heart ache. Guilt washed over you as you looked at his expression. You turned back to the food, leaning forward to sip at the broth. You quietly continued to let him feed you. When you asked if he’d prepared any for himself he interrupted your question by spooning you more broth. You swallowed quickly then put your hand up as a barrier.

“I’m not going to eat anymore if you aren’t going to eat at all,” you said. The Destined One stared at you for a beat then took the bowl to his lips. You felt yourself smile a little watching his tail lash behind him. You then obediently ate the rest of the soup. You had him finish off the last spoonful himself then leaned into his shoulder.

You found Bajie at the edge of a nearby lake with a jar of brew in hand. Several jars were already emptied and tossed aside. You sat down beside him as he finished another and added it onto the growing pile. He wiped his mouth, eyes trained on the still lake.

“What do you want?” Bajie asked bluntly, tearing another bottle open.

“A drink,” you answered, grabbing a bottle of your own.

You felt Bajie’s gaze shift to you as you tore the brew open and tilted it back, taking in large gulps of alcohol. You almost slammed the bottle down as you let out a heavy sigh.

“You don’t drink,” Bajie said incredulously.

“Since when?” You responded, glancing sideways at him.

Bajie seemed to think for a moment then held out his jar towards you. In return you held out your own drink, tapping it against his. With that small toast you both took a swig from your drinks and sat in silence staring out onto the lake. The last colors of twilight were fading. As the full moon began to rise you watched as fireflies slowly blinked awake.

You didn’t know what to say to Bajie. No apologies would come without explanations you couldn’t give. Bajie was the same, bound by a similar rule that had you both brood in silence. You thought of the little girl; the youngest of the Spider Sisters. You remembered the expression on her face as she watched Bajie walk away. Again and again everything brought you back into the same loop, the same feeling of helplessness. You felt you wanted to throw something to hear it shatter and break apart. Instead you took a big swig in a pathetic attempt to drown and shut those thoughts out.

The night continued like this until the moon shone its reflection onto the center of the lake. You and Bajie continued to drink, neither of you stepping from your own worlds. The alcohol was coursing through you. You felt buzzed as the ground swayed ever so slightly. Your mind felt like it had been soaked, half-heartedly rinsed, then left out to dry as the brew washed over your senses. Out of the corner of your vision you saw Bajie turn from the lake and sigh heavily as he closed his eyes.

“Do you regret it?” the question left you before your mind fully comprehended it. Yet, you didn’t feel any panic once you did. You just wanted to hear the answer. You watched the subtle ripples of the reflected moon as Bajie kept his eyes closed. You thought he hadn’t heard you. A small part of you was grateful, ready to rebuild the broken silence. Then Bajie opened his eyes.

“A better question is,” Bajie said, picking up a rock and turning it in his hand, “would I do it all again?”

You stared at the lake, watching the fireflies lazily dancing on its surface.

“Would you?” you asked.

“Would you?” he asked right back.

Your hand went to the scar on your arm. Flashes of memories flipped through your mind. From the moment you fell into this world to now. You thought of all those times your life was in peril, the struggle it took for you to adapt, the fear, the ache of home, the helplessness, and this evolved deep rooted guilt. You felt your hand clutch at your drink harder as your arms held yourself together. Then the Destined One appeared in your mind. You thought of his eyes, his smile, his little mannerisms, his gentle hands, the moments you two shared, his warmth, his fury, his joy, his pain. Him. You thought of Bajie. The stories he’d tell you as you rested. The times he’d fight alongside the Young Sage. The way he cared for you beneath that layer of gruffness. How he’s sitting beside you now, sharing a moment to drink with you.

“Yes…” you said.

“Then you have your answer,” replied Bajie.

Even if this journey ends in pain and tragedy you already knew. If given the choice, you’d choose to do it all again. Bajie makes a sound between a grunt and a hum. He turned the rock once more then tossed it into the lake where it skipped twice disturbing and dispelling the image of the moon. You watched the ripples smooth itself out, sipping from your drink.

Bajie spoke up, “Your turn,” he said.

“Hm?” you picked at the grass, becoming more aware of how warm your body had become from the drink.

“I’m owed a story,” said Bajie.

You laughed then emptied the last sips of your bottle before wiping your mouth. Your hand went to grab another, humming as you undid the seal on the brew.

“Have I ever told you about the time I was captured by bandits?”

Bajie choked on his drink, “Those idiots thought you-” Bajie burst into laughter, hitting the ground as he did so. You could only make out some snippets of what he was saying in-between his cackling.

“No, but I am not surprised. You attract unwanted dangers like our Master had. Might as well wear a sign reading Free Morsel.”

“Funnily enough, they thought I was your master,” you said, ignoring his quip.

“They thought-you! A pious monk! Oh yes, I see you are just brimming with virtuosity.”

You rolled your eyes as Bajie’s laughter settled down to a controllable chuckle.

“I couldn’t have been this cheeky when I first asked you for a story,” you grumbled.

“Oh no, you were much worse,” countered Bajie.

“Can I tell my story now?”

Bajie tilted his drink to you, “Floor’s all yours, kid.”

Bajie listened as you recounted the event of your capture. You skimped a bit on the details regarding the argument you and the Destined One were going through. He mumbled about how you were “Just like Master” when you shared how you were caught unawares to be consumed. He seemed to enjoy your description of the rats and their little tussle. He snickered when you told him the lie you had fed them.

“They really believed that?”

“I’m still telling the story, Bajie.”

Bajie seemed gripped as you told him about the rising tensions the group had when they argued on what to do with you. Then came the moment the rat leader opened his mouth to take a bite of you. You built on that suspense up to when the Destined One dramatically appeared to save you which had Bajie grunt.

“What a surprise,” Bajie said sarcastically.

You must’ve been a bit too descriptive in how you described the Destined One as he battled the rats because Bajie interrupted you by saying, “Yes, yes the dashing little monkey prince came and rescued you. What happened afterwards?”

You paused. “Afterwards?” you repeated. You blinked as the events of ‘afterwards’ replayed in your mind. You were grateful your cheeks were already flushed from the alcohol. You cleared your throat, absentmindedly swirling your drink around and feeling there was a little over half of it left. You avoided looking at Bajie.

“Nothing much, we just continued the journey as usual,” you said casually.

“Huh, figured the kid wasn’t one to take advantage of the situation.” Bajie commented.

“What do you mean?”

“Well, such a romantic rescue usually ends with a kiss at the very least.”

You froze. You couldn’t tell if the way Bajie was leaning forward out of the corner of your eye meant he was knowingly teasing you or you were just imagining it. Bajie continued, “So nothing hap-”

You threw your drink back, gulping it all down loudly as some of it spilled from the corners of your mouth.

“Woah, slow down, kid. You’ll drown yourself drinking that much all at once,” Bajie warned.

You didn’t listen. Tossing your empty drink aside, you grabbed and ripped into another, giving Bajie a brazen smile.

“Scared I’ll out drink you, old man?”

Bajie seemed taken aback for a moment then flashed you a grin. He emptied his drink down his gullet, mirroring you in grabbing another.

“Big words from such an impudent human. You’ll be regretting that tonight,” Bajie said.

“Such a powerful Yaoguai like yourself s’got more to lose,” you replied spilling a little of your drink as you offered him a toast, “And only tonight, Bajie? No, you’ll be the one regretting this come morning.”

Bajie snorted, almost crashing his drink against yours.

“We’ll see about that.”

You couldn’t stop laughing. The ground was constantly moving. The world seemed to take a moment to catch up every time your gaze shifted. Your words were slurring, tumbling over each other. You and Bajie were constantly switching between tearful laughter and heated arguments. All of which were nonsensical. The arguments escalated into petty bets. Who can chug the fastest without pause? Who can throw the most accurately? Who can stack the taller brew tower? Though you won your fair share Bajie was quite ahead in wins which made you challenge him again and again. More and more silly bets came and went. You’d just beaten him in a very fair and not at all skewed agility test when Bajie spoke up, almost tripping over an empty jar.

“Alright, I know one-one thing. I can summon that kid without speaking a single word.”

You tilted your head in thought, your drink tilted with you spilling a bit on the ground. You didn’t pay that much mind as you squinted at Bajie.

“And no using your powers?” you questioned.

“Not one,” assured Bajie.

Bajie stumbled over to you and waved you closer like he’s about to share a secret. Without much or really any thought you leaned down. Bajie reached his hand out and flicked you hard on the head. You yelped, clutching your head as you fell to the ground. You went back and forth cursing at Bajie and groaning out “Why.” The answer came when two familiar hands pried yours from your face. The Destined One had been successfully summoned. The Destined One turned your head to examine it. Joy at seeing him sparked back into irritation towards Bajie as you heard him cackling on the ground. Bajie pointed to you, “Take that one back to camp before they drink all my alcohol.”

“Don’t listen to him, he’s drunk,” you huffed.

“You’re drunk!” Bajie retorted.

The Young Sage made to take you into his arms, an offer you’d never thought you’d turn down. In your drunken stupor indignation and stubbornness flared, catching ablaze on the alcohol coursing through you.

“Now it’s fair,” you threw an arm around the Destined One and pointed at Bajie, “As a team we’re taking you down, old man.”

Bajie guffawed, “You think adding the kid is enough to match the Zhu Bajie?”

“If you’re too scared now that my monkey prince is here, then go ahead and cut me off,” you challenged. Bajie’s ear twitched. He walked up to the Destined One and shoved a drink into his hand. The Young Sage looked at the drink then at Bajie.

“Your pre-requisite,” Bajie said slyly.

The Destined One looked at you still hanging onto his shoulders. You were grinning stupidly back at him, giving him a thumbs up for encouragement. The Young Sage downed the drink in one breath. You watched mesmerized as the drink spilled from his lips and trickled down his throat. You felt something smack you on the shoulder. Tearing away from the Destined One you looked at the ground where a pebble was rolling to a stop. You frowned at Bajie.

“Quit your gawking, I can see you drooling from here,” said the Pig Guai.

The Destined One threw the empty jar aside looking roguishly, sinfully, and devastatingly handsome as he wiped his mouth with his wrist. You grinned at Bajie who responded with a chuckle, “You’ve got some catch-up to do, Nephew. I’ve got ‘em beat eight to one.”

“You lying piece of-”

The games began.

An outlooker could describe the scene and sound like they’re about to tell a joke. A monkey, a pig, and a human were drunkenly running around near a lake scattering the nearby fireflies and small wildlife. Every so often the human would be yelling at the pig as he shoved more drinks into the monkey’s hand. The monkey remained unphased by the amount of alcohol he consumed and was the only one not swaying on their feet. At some point, someone's mother was being insulted.

Bajie’s challenges were becoming more ruthless. The beginning was a simple game of rock skipping. Bajie had made an impressive six skips while your own rock sank to the bottom of the lake immediately. The Destined One had picked up a rock without much thought and flicked it across the lake's surface. The rock skipped across the lake, going well beyond six and continuing into the distance. You jumped onto his back with a fist in the air. Bajie was quick to prepare for the next game.

The Destined One dominated them all. No matter the amount of drinks that Bajie handed him he didn’t seem even the slightest bit buzzed. You saw that he wore a subtle grin; his tail swayed to and fro as Bajie challenged him again and again. He was fully enjoying himself. You didn’t mind at all that he was carrying you in almost every challenge being much too busy laughing and stumbling around as you cheered him on. Eventually, Bajie threw up his hands.

“Alright! Final challenge,” Bajie swayed heavily pointing back and forth between the two of you. You were being carried on the Destined Ones shoulders as you switched between drinking and having him drink from the same jar. Bajie had just lost to a simple game of rock paper scissors in which you were the victor. The Destined One had held you up as you laughed victoriously.

Bajie’s words were heavily slurred as he went back and forth between the line of drunken delight and vexation. Bajie patted around his body then produced a small jade pendant which he almost dropped. Bajie held it up for you and the Young Sage to see.

“A simple game,” Bajie hiccuped, “of keep away.”

You watched as Bajie took a few steps back, making some distance between you and the Destined One. Bajie walked into the lake till the water reached his waist. You patted the Destined One gently on his head. He set you down from his shoulders. You knew this one was truly for everything.

“Five minutes should be enough for you two numskulls,” Bajie said, “Come at me, the both of you!” Bajie tossed the pendant up. You followed its trajectory as it ascended, readying yourself to dash towards it. Beside you, the Destined One did the same. In slow motion, your eyes followed the pendant as it descended. In the next moment, you watched as a catfish met it halfway and swallowed it. The very same catfish fell back into the lake with a small plop, disappearing below the surface. You stood there, staring as the ripples of the lake smoothed out again. It took you too long to comprehend what just happened. For a moment, you and the Destined One stared at the silent, unmoving lake. In the next, you were wading through the water calling Bajie a list of colorful names and terms which this world had yet to hear.

You addressed the Young Sage. “Any fish-like transformation in your arsenal?” you asked, already knowing the answer. The Destined One shook his head. You kicked at the water in vain. As sudden as it came, you felt your anger douse itself out. That little cheater. You couldn’t say you wouldn’t have done the same if you were in Bajie’s shoes. Or would it be hooves?

You laid back onto the water, mindlessly floating about. You let yourself swear at Bajie one more time with a smile as you swore revenge. Fireflies flew in and out of your sight. The moon was outdoing itself tonight as it shined brightly in a sea full of twinkling stars. A familiar face appeared in your vision. The Destined One looked down at you as your head bumped against his leg.

“I’d ask you to join me, but I’m not too sure if you float,” you said. He seemed happy enough to simply watch you.

After five minutes, Bajie appeared bursting from the lake shaking off excess water onto you and the Destined One. You stood up to glare at him and give him a splash back. He tsked at you.

“Hey now, it’s a bad look to be so sore after losing,” Bajie chided. You flicked water at him defiantly. Bajie ignored the little water droplets you pelted at him.

“As winner,” he continued, ignoring your jeering, “I declare you both cut off from drinking anymore of my alcohol and you shall call me King Bajie the Unparalleled from now on.”

“We’re not doing that,” you said then sneezed into your elbow. Your drenched clothes clung to your body as the Destined One scooped you up into his arms, ignoring how his own clothes were getting soaked.

“Yes, take that insolent human away, Nephew.” said Bajie in a haughty tone, waving you both off.

You opened your mouth to reply, but ended up sneezing again. The Destined One turned away quickly, wading out of the lake to get you onto dry land. You turned to Bajie, ready to counter him with an insult. Your tongue stilled as you looked at him. Where Bajie was just standing, a young man now stood watching you both leave with a forlorn smile on his face. He was tall, handsome, with an almost exalted air surrounding him. As the fireflies blinked in and out around him, he turned away from you, his long dark hair shrouding his face. You didn’t dare blink, not even when the trees and foliage began obscuring your vision. You watched as the young man looked up at the moon, turning that little jade pendant in his hand.

You were snuggled in the Young Sage’s arms as he carried you back to camp. A blanket of drowsiness wrapped itself around you. Cut off and kicked out, you finally felt the exhaustion of the day catch up to you. Looking up through half-lidded eyes, your hands went to trace the Destined One’s face. Dreamily, you brushed through his fur.

“It’s so soft,” you said as you scratched the back of his head. He leaned into your hand then tilted his head this way and that to make sure you get every good spot.

You laughed, “You are adorable.”

The Destined One blinked. That was a newer compliment. You knew it was one you typically kept to yourself, but you didn’t care. Your inhibitions had been washed away, perhaps abandoned at the edge of the lake a drink or two ago. In this moonlight, underneath the sky dusted full of stars the Destined One looked much too- “Handsome,” you said out loud. The Young Sage seemed surprised, but fully embraced your sudden praise with a smile. You kept them coming, his subtle joy at your words pushing you on until you were babbling. You talked about how fun tonight was, you wondered if he’d ever gotten drunk, then you would double back to complimenting him again. His eyes, his smile, his hands, that tail of his, everything about him you flooded with shameless praise. The Young Sage looked close to laughing.

You couldn’t make out the details of anything. The world was an unfocused blur on an unfinished painting. The only thing clear to you was him. You smiled wistfully, looking into his eyes.

“You know, before I came here I-” a sudden wave of nausea hit you. You covered your mouth as you felt yourself salivate. The Destined One quickly put you down where you braced yourself against a tree and emptied your stomach. The Destined One steadied you with a hand on your back. You felt sick and dizzy, no longer able to open your eyes without the world spinning out of control. The next instances came in snapshots: being cleaned up, changed, asking for water, groaning, more vomiting, more water. You fell asleep curled up next to the Young Sage, clutching at his robes while he combed his hands gently through your hair.

The next morning, you woke up feeling dehydrated with a throbbing headache. You squinted in the light of the sun, catching your pig guai companion fairing the same across the way. Both of you groaned as the consequences of your actions produced an unforgiving hangover.

The Young Sage was just fine, you could make out his fuzzy shape warming up in the distance with his staff. He’d left a little kettle beside the embers of a dying fire already heated and ready. You forced yourself up and poured a cup of hot tea with shaky hands. Bajie stayed where he was, but continued his lament of groans as he tried to cover his eyes from the sunlight. He hadn't made it to his bedding last night which sat unused only half a foot away from him. You placed the steaming cup near Bajie, his ear twitched as it followed your movements. You poured yourself another cup and took a sip, shivering as the hot liquid coursed through you.

Bajie slowly sat up, taking the drink you’d given him. He took a sip and shivered as he closed his eyes.

“Thanks, kid,” Bajie said.

You gave him a small hum in response. Birds were greeting you with their chorus as a warm breeze blew through your hair. The Destined One returned, sitting beside you and handing you breakfast already prepared. You looked at him as you held your pulsing head. Your memories after leaving Bajie were hazy and jumbled, as if someone wiped at the pages of your mind while the ink was still drying.

“Did I say anything weird last night?” you asked.

The Destined One tilted his head in thought. He gave you a small, almost indiscernible, mischievous smile and shook his head. You probed him more as that tail of his flicked back and forth. The Young Sage took your cup and sipped at it, remaining unmoved as you pestered him on what you could’ve possibly said. Bajie, with eyes still closed, spoke up, “Silence,” he said, “The Unparalleled King Bajie commands it.”

A passerby could describe the scene that happened afterwards and sound like they’re about to tell a joke.

84 notes · View notes

tempesttz · 4 months ago

Text

i feel like causing problems today: correcting actual endogenic misinformation on the anti endo blog about "correcting misinformation"

WARNING: VERY LONG POST ABOUT SYSCOURSE BELOW THE CUT! you have been warned. stay safe! :3c

[/image id: screenshot of tumblr blog @antimisinfo, the blog's profile picture, and the blog's header stating "correcting misinformation." end id.] (before we get into this, some of these images will be very bright! i will try to provide accurate image ids to every screenshot i post. stay safe!) okay so see this account right? op has no clue what they're talking about. addressing pronouns right now, i was going to refer to them by their preferred collective pronouns but i can't find them? i checked their carrd and their alters all had different pronouns and their about me just says this

[/image id: text stating, "horned haters is a subsystem filled with alters who hate endos / pro-endos. our whole system does but we are more passionate about it and plan to try make as many safe spaces for anti-endos as we possibly can!" end id.] so at least i know they prefer alters. cool [happy] so far okay whatever they REALLY hate endogenic systems thats cool thats whatever nothing new there but

[/image id: five images of different flags, likely did/osdd related, anti endo related, or something similar. text underneath flags states "system hot takes," "anti endo support group," "anti endo system terms," "agre and littles safespace," and "fictive stuff." end id.] jegus dude you weren't joking about being passionate about hating. this is like, grade a hater here. but i digress this probably isn't the post to be screwing around on i'll keep the screwing to a minimum i promise. that being said i don't promise to be nice, i do not owe anyone kindness, especially when they are not kind to me. i will try to be polite. so this is already splendid right but you would think with this many accounts dedicated to hating endogenic systems (they also own anti endo vents, i think?) they would at least know what they're talking about, right? right?????

[/image id: text reading "so what are endos? endos or endogenics are people who claim to have did/osdd without trauma or claim to have alters/be a system without having did/osdd." end id.] source: endos / endogenics and why they aren't valid, may 8 2024 for the sake of convenience, i'm going to be referring to did/osdd as osddid from now on. okay so first of all, anyone who claims to be endogenic while having osddid is almost definitely also traumagenic and has reasons rooted in trauma, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. endogenic is a broad, personal label. an endogenic system with did could be one with a lot of created alters or headmates. or just two created alters, headmates, etc. who knows! it's a very personal label after all. that being said, to have osddid, you have to have some form of trauma in almost every case, because trauma is what causes the dissociation, amnesia and other symptoms of osddid. anyone who's arguing to the contrary is wrong. you cannot have osddid without trauma? "so tempy, endogenic systems aren't real! they don't have osddid!" wrong. you can be a system without having osddid. for just one example, sourced from the national library of medicine, pubmed central, "multiplicity can be placed along a continuum between identity disturbance and dissociative identity disorder (did), although most systems function relatively well in everyday life. Further research is needed to explore this phenomenon, especially in terms of the extent to which multiplicity can be regarded as a healthy way of coping." (2017) taking some bookmarks from your sixth grade english class (which i can only hope you have passed by now, if you are on this website,) we are going to use some inferences. if multiplicity isn't dissociative identity disorder, but it is a state of being multiple and a system, what do you have? a system without osddid. "but tempy, that doesn't mention osdd!" that's because osdd wasn't a medical term before the dsm-5. not to mention, it stresses that "...most systems function relatively well in everyday life..." and that "...multiplicity can be regarded as a healthy way of coping." osdd is a disorder and an osdd system's plurality is disordered. non-disordered plurality is a thing that exists, and almost all non-traumagenic plurals are non-disordered! so we're already off to a terrible start. op isn't creating a distinction between plurality and osddid, likely because they believe that osddid is the only way to be plural. this not only was disproved above by a literal scientific article on a .gov website, but also the icd-11.

[/image id: text stating "boundary with normality (threshold):" which then moves a line down to a bullet point stating "the presence of two or more distinct personality states does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder. in certain circumstances (e.g., as experienced by 'mediums' or other culturally accepted spiritual practitioners) the presence of multiple personality states is not experienced as aversive and is not associated with impairment in functioning. a diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder should not be assigned in these cases." end id.] so someone can experience multiple personality states without it being part of a mental disorder. and it's not dissociative identity disorder, and it can't be otherwise specified dissociative disorder, so... i wonder what it could be? well, many things! all under the wonderful way-too-vague umbrella that is endogenic plurality. oh, you need more proof? how about we look to a book written by eric yarbrough, a psychiatrist who specializes in lgbtq issues:

[/image id: text reading "the phenomenon of plurality is unknown to most mental health clinicians. most professionals know this condition as dissociative identity disorder (american psychiatric association 2013), although plurality and dissociative identity disorder are not exactly the same. being plural, or having two or more people existing in one body or space, is just one part of the diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder. many people who are plural do not experience distress from the existence of others within themselves." end id.] what was that, psychiatrist eric yarbrough in your book transgender mental health which was published by the american psychiatric association?

[/image id: text reading "plurality is a more patient-centered approach to what has historically been referred to as dissociative identities. this is not the same as the dsm-5 diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder (american psychiatric association 2013). plurality makes up just one part of the larger diagnosis and does not necessarily cause distress. although many people who are plural have a history of trauma, there are just as many who do not. a plural system is a collection of all the alters present. with some people these alters might come and go, whereas with others they are static and waiting to be discovered." end id.] this is not the same as the dsm-5 diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder, huh? it's just one part of a larger diagnosis and doesn't necessarily cause distress, huh? still not convinced? rapid fire! zarah eve, sarah parry: "not all multiplicity is based in trauma" (2021) mick cooper: "neuropsychological research has demonstrated the inherently divisible nature of the brain and consciousness" (unsure, likely pre-2013) zarah eve, kim hayes, sarah perry: "multiplicity experiences are phenomenologically distinct from clinical dissociative experiences" (2023)

kymbra clayton: "there may be in the general population a large number of people with [multiplicity] who are high-functioning, relatively free of overt psychopathology, and no more in need of treatment than most of their peers. they may not have abuse histories and may have evolved a creative and adaptive multiplicity." (possibly 2005)

the entire endogenic and non-traumagenic resources google doc, created by a diagnosed traumagenic system can we at least establish there's been a recorded medical existence of healthy, non-disordered multiplicity in psychiatric fields and that this isn't something that someone just made up on tumblr one day? okay, cool, thanks. now i wonder if there's a word for that. oh wait. it's called non-disordered plurality and tends to be much more common in non-traumagenic systems. by now you've probably forgotten the actual reason this post exists, so back to antimisinfo!

[/image id: text reading "why is this bad? this is misinformation because as far as science knows did/osdd is a trauma based disorder (specifically caused by trauma in early childhood, which is speculated to be 1-9 / 1-12 years old) and your brain would not split/create alters without reason. you cannot have alters without having a disorder, this is common sense as it's not normal to have alters. to add onto this endos also take over our communities and teal our terms. (we'll make a post with further information on that in the future.)" end id.] okay so first off non-disordered systems exist, let's stop talking about osddid as if it's the only way plurals can exist. second off, you can be multiple without having a disorder, it's literally highlighted in the icd-11 that non-disordered multiplicity exists. see above for disproving that. this is not common sense, because as seen above people can experience multiplicity without it being disordered, therefore meaning it is "normal," though not realistically normal as all plurals are a minority. normal =/= bad/disordered. cool? cool now, onto "endos take over our communities and steal our terms." i have no clue what terms op is talking about (tried to find their elaboration on those terms but it seems they haven't posted it), nor have i ever gotten an actual comprehensive list of terms they think we're stealing, but here we go: the terms traumagenic and endogenic were created by an endogenic system

[/image id: text reads "an important part of the development of these terms involves our journey towards identifying as plural. we have used a lot of terms for ourselves over the last thirty years; since 2014, we have identified as endogenic, but have known we were plural since at least 1990. the road" text cuts off. end id.] the term plural can be traced back to 2003 and even in its oldest records recognize the existence of non-traumagenic plurality. it has always been an inclusive term

[/image id: header reads "heart's home." text next to it reads "join date: january 02, 2003." text underneath reads, "this is my site for people that have mpd did, {;} also i agree that not all is cause by trauma. {;} i was on the ring from ring world and did not know this was moved." end id.] introject is a psychiatry-focused word, meaning that it could be claimed to be osddid exclusive, however multiple communities have used them in tandem for years. it can be traced back to this glossary which was written before the dsm-5, or pre-2013.

[/image id: text reads "introject - introjection occurs when a person (singlet or plural) internalizes another person (real or fictional) into his or her mental space. in classical psychology, the introject is usually a parent, whose advice for good or ill becomes integrated into the person's moral system. more broadly, many people experience introjects as a kind of muse, inspiring them to creativity or self-improvement (a psychologist would call this an "internalized imago"). (psychiatric)". new line. new line text reads, ""introject" is seen as derogatory by some, because it is a psychiatric word and seems to imply that such people of necessity are unreal. They prefer terms like walk-in, soulbond, or fictive. having an introject does not necessarily mean you're multiple. it is an experience common to singlets and plurals. some multiple systems report adopting people from books, films, or real life, making them part of the group and allowing them to take the front if they desire." so, having introjects hasn't even always been seen as a fully plural experience! singlets used to be considered to be able to have introjects too! isn't that cool? not to mention, they also have a definition for fictive in there, recognized as a wider plural term! cool, cross that off the list... oh? what's this?

[/image id: text reads "system - a group of persons in one body. also, the operating system by which a group governs itself. multiples have many different names for this: group, collective, clan, household (or house), family, etc. (may have originated with a few multiples writing for the amateur press; we first read it in an early mpd book.)" end id.] so non-disordered plurals have used the term system since ever too... not to mention, hey, look at this term!

[/image id: text reads "empowerment is for all multiples. It is not only for natural (non-trauma) multiples; you can be empowered and be a multiple who was born as one person and split due to child abuse. In fact, if that's your situation, empowerment is a wonderful thing for you, and is something your therapist (if any) ought to be encouraging." end id.] wow... non-trauma multiples. look at that. is that enough terms? if you want me to look up more, feel free to suggest anything the endogenic community is "stealing" that haven't been used synonymously and consistently in both traumagenic and endogenic spaces since before traumagenic and endogenic were terms. okay back to misinformation.

[/image id: text is a link that reads "there is also a carrd that explains why endos are bad and debunks a few myths if anyone is interested in it! if not continue reading." end id.] i didn't need to click on this to know it was the why endos are bad carrd. this is the most touted anti endo carrd in existence. i'm so sick of seeing it i'm not even addressing it today. it's wrong and blames endogenic systems for systemic issues like "making actual systems be less believed." not a verbatim quote, but you can go read it for yourself and then scroll up and read everything i just said again.

i've never actually seen another anti-endo carrd. which is saying something, because there's a lot of endogenic carrds, some better than others. carrds in general aren't reputable in most situations, unless they cite other sources, which the why endos are bad carrd doesn't. it cites a google doc about cultural appropriation and the theory of structural dissociation, which is about osddid, not non traumagenic plurality. it also implies that anyone identifying as endogenic has been lied to, is traumagenic and in denial, is a singlet who's experiencing a factitious disorder or other disorder misleading them, or are a singlet faking because they think it's "fun." no comment, i'll talk about it in length another day.

[/image id: text reads, "why can't you have did/osdd or alters without trauma? as far as science knows did/osdd is a trauma disorder and in order to have alters in the first place you require dissociation, which is also a trauma (or stress) response. here are tons of medically reviewed sources that say this:" image ends. end id.] once again, not osdddid. also, "as far as science knows..." see above. science knows about non-disordered plurality. op goes on to list a bunch of articles about dissociative identity disorder, that talk about dissociative identity disorder. they are wonderful articles about dissociative identity disorder and prove that individuals with dissociative identity disorder (and by extension otherwise specified dissociative disorder) experience that disorder due to trauma. that being said... non-disordered multiplicity is a thing, and endogenic systems still don't have osddid. seeing a pattern?

[/image id: text reads, "what about religious beliefs / tulpamancy? first people are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs (and religious beliefs are not exempt from criticism) and second tulpamancy is a closed buddhist practice that has nothing to do with being a system and should not be compared to being a system nor should it be included / involved in system communities. Note that the dsm-v also says that in order to have did; "the disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice." <- this does not mean it's possible to have alters due to a religious thing, if anything it says they cannot be counted as alters / as a system." end id.] okay so i corrected this in the image id, but op actually wrote "tuplamancy" twice. lol first off, tulpamancy isn't a closed buddhist practice. a tulpa is a theosophical term that was originally inspired by the tibetan buddhist nirmāṇakāya, translated as in tibetan as sprul-pa. "the western understanding of tulpas was developed by twentieth-century european mystical explorers, who interpreted the idea independently of buddhahood," according to wikipedia, sourced from tracking the tulpa (2015). a google search could tell you this. did you research any of the communities you are attempting to debunk past listening to what people who agree with you say? if you've decided in the past three months that google is your friend, i would google "echo chamber." second off, people absolutely are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs, and religious beliefs are subject to criticism. however, they should also be respected. this post, along with most other things you have had to say, have not respected spiritual plurals. not to mention, not all non-traumagenic plurals are spiritual. not to mention, not all tulpamancers are spiritual, in fact, most aren't. "modern practitioners, who call themselves "tulpamancers", use the term to refer to a type of willed imaginary friend which practitioners consider to be sentient and relatively independent. modern practitioners predominantly consider tulpas to be a psychological rather than a paranormal concept. the idea became an important belief in theosophy." see: wikipedia again. i mean, if you want me to go find scientific articles about this i can but wikipedia has plenty. go check the sources on wikipedia. this should have been the first thing you did if you wanted to "combat misinformation," by doing actual research before posting. op then starts talking about did. see: not all plurals are disordered. op also takes the time to shit on spiritual multiplicity again, which i will rightly ignore, refer to two paragraphs ago. it's midnight and i would like to finish writing by 1am.

[/image id: text reads, "to add on, no you cannot pray to be a system or transition into being a system. if you were to pray and one day magically become a system you are either in denial or you've convinced yourself you're something you're not. believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works." end id.] this is a half-truth! you cannot pray to become a system unless you count spiritual possession (and frankly that responsibility lies on the individual in question), and you cannot pray to have osddid as that's a dissociative disorder that stems from childhood. you technically can transition to being plural (created systems are a thing, intentional and unintentional creation of headmates has been recorded dutifully since at least the early 1900s (see: tracking the tulpa, 2015). for the sake of it, here's a sciencedirect article about authors who experience different forms of hearing their characters in their head, who's recounts all sound very similar to non-disordered plurality. "believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works." maybe if all plurality is disordered. it isn't. see above when i showed multiple examples of non-disordered multiplicity. believing that all plurality is disordered is like insisting that god created everything on earth after being presented with the theory of evolution. the analogy goes both ways.

[/image id: text reads, "what about mixed origin systems? Mixed origin systems are not a thing. did/osdd forms purely from trauma, you can't form from a mix of trauma and not trauma, that's not how it works. if you identify as mixed origin you are likely in denial and really need to come to terms with the fact that you are either traumatized or you're not a system at all." ] okay so first of all people can be traumatized past the age of twelve. ooh burn i know crazy. not to mention, plurality in general is known to be experienced by neurodivergent individuals, who as a minority are more likely to experience some form of trauma. this isn't a controversial statement, right? i don't have to prove this, right? cool great thanks. oh hey i just found a really flat ginger ale this will now fuel the rest of this post. there's this crazy concept, some people can be traumatized without it causing them to be disordered. or, a person with osddid could have created headmates, therefore making some of their system of non-traumagenic origin. personally, i was a system before i was traumatized. this caused my plurality to have some very trauma-based aspects, trauma holders and trauma-focused roles. that being said, my plurality (mostly lol) isn't disordered and my first recorded headmate was a created/spontaneous headmate at the age of ~nine.~ isn't that cool? anyways i've been medically recognized as plural so you can't fakeclaim me [silly] i dont have osddid. don't fit the diagnostic criteria. but i've been experiencing headmates since 9 and have recognized my plurality since 12. i'm 18. most of my headmates can be sourced to when i was 13-15, as that's when i experienced the most trauma (i'm better now stay safe though yall). that's decidedly after the gracious "1-12" estimate you gave, op. not to mention, we created headmates intentionally at the age of 12. so what's up with that op? what am i? okay i'm done being anectodal, i just took the opportunity to parry a personal opinion with a personal anecdote just to further drive the nail in that people like this exist and are living breathing sentient individuals with lives outside the screen and many of us have been plural since ever. i sourced non-traumagenic multiplicity to before the dsm-5 just in this post alone, not to mention tulpamancy (many tulpamancers don't consider themselves plural/multiple or part of the community).

[/image id: text reads, "what about other kinds of origins? Other origins like "willowgenic" and all that bullshit? Yeah no, same thing as endos, not possible. look above for all the proof you need, did/osdd is only caused by trauma. traumagenic is the only valid origin." end id.] i dunno if i told you this but did/osdd isn't the only form of plurality because not all plurality is disordered. also, spelling every origin you don't agree with incorrectly in a post that's supposed to be informational doesn't lend to your credibility. it's spelled willogenic. you're welcome. also, the word "traumagenic" was created by an endogenic system (see above, during "endos are stealing our terms," first link). you're appropriating our terms, buddy. [silly]

[/image id: text reads, "but I gave myself did! / but I created my own alters! no you didn't. that isn't possible, you cannot turn yourself into a did/osdd system and creating alters is a coping mechanism, not something you do for fun, sources on this;" text ends. end id.] half truth! you can't give yourself osddid because it's a dissociative disorder that forms due to childhood trauma. you can, however, create alters/headmates. see above when i talked about tulpamancy. op goes on to link more resources about dissociative identity disorder that don't mention other forms of plurality. not all plurals are disordered, let's move on.

[/image id: text reads, "isn't being a system like the same as being trans or being lgbtq? no, many endos compared the two but they are completely different. Being lgbtq is an identity, it's something you are born as. being a system is a debilitating disorder caused by severe trauma, it is counted as a disability which is;" text ends. end id.] first off i gotta say it again, not all plurality is disordered. op goes on to explain why did is a disability, which is true. that's just true. but again. not all plurality is disordered. second off, half truth! being a system is not the same as being lgbtq! that being said, a lot of systems are part of the lgbtq community, both due to its known effects on gender and sexuality and because a lot of them are neurodivergent. speaking on the internet plural community here, anyways. a lot of anti endos are referred to as "sysmeds" as a reference to "transmeds," people who believe that all people who are transgender must have a disorder in the form of gender dysphoria. sysmeds are people who believe that all people who are systems must have a disorder in the form of osddid.... same thing different font debunked not all systems are disordered. anyways.

[/image id: text reads, "but the dsm-v says that trauma isn't required! no, the dsm-v actually says csa isn't required, there are other forms of trauma that don't involve csa or child abuse. To act as if it saying that the trauma isn't always ca or child abuse means that it doesn't require trauma at all is extremely invalidating to those who are traumatized in ways that don't involve child abuse or csa." end id.] both of you are wrong jesus christ. okay so first of all the dsm-v heavily implies that trauma is basically required in order to have osddid.

[/image id: text reading "dissociative identity disorder is associated with overwhelming experiences, traumatic events, and/or abuse occurring in childhood. the full disorder may manifest at al-" text cuts off. end id.]

[/image id: text reads, "the dissociative disorders are frequently found in the aftermath of trauma, and many of the symptoms, including embarrassment and confusion about the symptoms or a desire to hide them, are influenced by the proximity to trauma. in dsm-5, the dissociative disorders are placed next to, but are not part of, the trauma- and stressor-related disorders, reflecting the close relationship between these diagnostic classes. both acute stress disorder" text cuts off. end id.] second of all the part of the dsm-5 that goes over dissociative identity disorder doesn't mention sexual violence once. the best i can assume this claim came from is an old belief that most dissociative identity disorder trauma if not all is inherently sexual.

[/image id: text reads, "promoted by charismatic individuals such as cornelia wilbur -- that multiplicity was almost always caused by severe, repeated child abuse, usually sexual, and was an extreme form of dissociation." end id.] so... where did you get this info, op? you didn't give us a source, after all. and again.... not all plurality is disordered. so this is a pointless argument to make. shit, i'm out of ginger ale. and it's 1am. it's okay i'm basically done right? uh, right?

[/image id: text reads, "but this source claims endos exist / did doesn't require trauma! most of those sources are extremely old and / or made by endos (or pro endos) themselves. (we'll make a more in-depth post on this topic some other time, but for now this is all we have to say on it)" end id.] first off i dated every source i cited, most are post-2013 and the newest is from last september (sep 2023). the oldest is ~2003. you're welcome. second, if you denounce every source given matter how reputable because it's "written by pro endos," you'll only end up listening to people in your own community. hey, remember when i asked you to google "echo chamber?" also, i'm waiting for that post, op. also also, for the sake of it, not all plurality is disordered, so why are we mentioning did again? oh yeah, because you don't believe in non-disordered plurality. is that because all the sources proving their existence are pro endo? hey, fun challenge, if you're over the age of 21 and find yourself wishing to, take a shot every time i reiterate not all plurality is disordered. [joking]

[/image id: text reads, "but we don't know everything about the human brain! you're right, we don't. the brain is mysterious, but we do know enough to know that it doesn't do these kinds of things for no reason. we know the brain reacts to trauma and we know what the difference between a normal brain and a disordered brain is. just because we don't know everything doesn't give people an excuse to jump to conclusions and spread misinformation. it is better to stick to what science currently knows which is the theory of structural dissociation, which is the current theory about how did/osdd forms, and so far no one has been able to disprove it. and before someone says it, no it is not only a theory, it is a scientific theory which is;" end id.] hey i have this fun concept for you not all plurality is disordered. also, just to throw it out there, otto van der hart, the guy who created the theory of structural dissociation referencing the haunted self and doing so along with ellert neijenhuis, suzette boon and kathy steele, had his license revoked years ago for abusing his plural patients. not to mention they promote only referring to the "client" and not the "parts," and only referring to alters as "parts of the client." i recommend reading this article on power to the plurals, and if you feel like some extra reading, you can also check out this old article about how psych professionals used to be encouraged to bait or purposefully leave information out or use different names for integration to attempt to coerce their plural patients into final fusion. in conclusion, not all plurality is disordered, source your shit, and if you're going to talk about only dissociative disorders at least get your claims right. thank you. stop spreading misinformation.

dave got a blinkie for his post so now i want one

[/image id: green and yellow blinkie gif with the words "written by jade harley!" in pixelpoiiz font. end id.]

[/image id: blinkie with a dark blue, almost black background featuring multiple stars, one of which twinkles. contains text reading "written by kankri." in the pixeloid sans font. end id.]

83 notes · View notes